Conference back40::soapbox

    
    The Knack?
    

    Sharona killed them in their sleep.

    
    Iron Butterfly?
    

    The Knack... the resurrected that goofy Sharona song for another go at
    the pop charts after it found its way into an equally goofy movie. But
    the funny part is that even though the movie was aimed straight at the
    Mtv crowd, Mtv wouldn't play the new video because the band was:
    
    			TOO OLD LOOKING!!!
    
    Either way, the Knack made a fresh batch of hay from the song. Frankly,
    I wish it had stayed dead. The Knack were _way_ lame. (You can feel
    free to feel otherwise if you wish... no one should ever be denied the
    right to be wrong.)
    
    The song, by the way, was dedicated to a once extremely foxy LA lady
    who went on to be a behind-the-scenes player in Hollyweird... she is
    the agent of one of the actors in the movie which revived the song...
    hence the song's revival.
    
    -b

    Here's a blast... Vanilla Fudge where are you (saw 'em in concert
    in '68.
    
    Chip

    
    yeah! loved 'em when i was a junior at La Quinta HS in Garbage Grove.

 Years ago when just outta highschool a couple buddies and I hopped into
 a 59 Chevy with a 5.2million Cubic inch V8 and drove from SF Bay area to
 Lake Tahoe.  The guy had an 8 track deck and only 2 tapes..Fresh Cream and
 Vanilla Fudge.  I can never listen to either again.  I think I can still
 remember where and in what songs the track changes occured.



Jim

    
    
    
       "Set me free why don't you babe,.........get out my life why don't
        you babe,.....ooooooo ooooooo oo,.....you don't really want me,..
        ......you just keep me hangin' on.........
    
    
        They've probably succumb to the big "D".
    
    
       Ed
    

    Vanilla Fudge's cover of "You Keep Me Hanging On" was a great
    party song way back then.  It's too much to ask the local oldies
    station to play it, since by their own braying they're only into
    the lighter, "feelgood" music.  I think they must test-play each
    record to their staff, and if anyone so much as begins moving any
    part of their body rhythmically, it's off the play list.
    
    Chris

    Whoops, notes collision... :-)
    
    Chris

    	WHT
    
    	Pousette Dart Band...

                                   Starbuck

    PDB... Groan. One case where amnesia is a *good thing*.
    
    The opening act for every rock show in NE for a period of 3 or 4 years
    before everyone figured out that the only song they had that was even
    1% noteworthy was "Amnesia". In a nutshell, they blew chunks. Large,
    multicolored chunks. That's what happened to them: they sucked.
    
    -b

	Pousette Dart Band can still be seen at the Sit 'N Bull in
	beautiful downtown Maynard.

    	Hmmm.  I forgot about "Amnesia".  I have other lyrics stuck in
    	my mind since posting my other reply:
    
    	Here I go.  Swingin' low.  Across that county line.
    	The noose that was around my neck is far behind...

>    	Hmmm.  I forgot about "Amnesia".



It just struck me funny, I guess. Thass all.

    Al Gore?

    
    The New Yorker just did a whole long piece about the dismay in the
    Gore camp at this (94 election) revolting development.  Gore thinks
    he will be "The Next Mondale".  He's the one guy who has nowhere
    to run to.  He has to stay and watch and get trashed - that's his job.
    
      bb

    >The New Yorker just did a whole long piece about the dismay in the
    >Gore camp at this (94 election) revolting development.  Gore thinks
    >he will be "The Next Mondale".  He's the one guy who has nowhere
    >to run to.  He has to stay and watch and get trashed - that's his job.
    
     comes with the territory. watch as others, with an option to leave,
    do. when panetta goes you'll know they've thrown in the towel. 

    
    Gore's nothing special.  If he hadn't become VP and stuck with the
    Tennessee Senate seat, he'd probably be history as of 11/8/94.
    
    jeff

    
    Ed Koch and David Dinkins?

Ed Koch is hawking chickens on TV.  Oh.  That's Frank Purdue.  Never mind.

Algore could always make a comeback. Confess to tax evasion ala SpiroT,
resign his office, move to the PRM and run against Kerry in the '96
Senatorial primary. He'd be a shoe-in for the seat come 11/96.

Shoo-in.

    Steeleye Span

    
    They ran out of green ribbons for their hats.

    
    eddie kendricks

    
    Re: Steeleye Span,
    
    Maddy Prior is touring solo now on the folkie circuit.  She was in
    Toronto at the Mariposa Festival this past summer.
    

>    Re: Steeleye Span,
    
>    Maddy Prior is touring solo now on the folkie circuit.  She was in
>    Toronto at the Mariposa Festival this past summer.
        
        So, what about Dave Swarbrick and Martin Carthy?
        
        Andy
        
        (who used to do the folkie circuit around Reading way back when
        with them)
    

    ... regular gas
    ... the $.19 hamburger
    ... city trash removal picking up leaves
    ... spring in New England
    ... income tax returns
    ... saleable DEC stock
    ... insurance premium refunds
    ... Mungo Jerry
    ... a compassionate U.S.
    
    Major decay...
     

    >> ... regular gas
    
    they still have it in las vegas...thank god the clerk was paying
    attention to which pump i was at...i went in, told her "10 on 1" she
    asked what kind of car i was driving  i said 'dodge shadow' (it was a
    rental)...she said "a newer one?"...i said "yeah, why?"...she said
    "cause that pump is for regular gas...the leaded kind..."...i said
    "oh...you don't see much of that anymore back home, and regular usually
    means the cheapest unleaded gas..."...she said "not here...we have a
    lot of older cars running around that still use leaded gas..."
    actually...isn't it true that any car (except diesel and electric) can
    take unleaded, but only designated cars can take leaded??
    
    >> ... income tax return
    
    i get one every spring...
    
    

    
    
    
    Tis true about the leaded gas, Raq.  If your car has a catalytic
    concerter and you put leaded gas in the sucker the converter is going
    to plug up on you in pretty short order.  If your car takes leaded gas
    (no converter) it is best to run leaded gas or put a lead additive into
    a tank of unleaded, however, it will run on unleaded fuel.
    
    
    Mike

    
    .30, Andy,
    
    Oh...the others were cryogenically frozen.  :^)
    

    Raq,
    
    You would have found when you went to put the leaded nozzle into the
    gas tank of the new car, it wouldn't have fit.  
    
    Lead will screw up the catalytic converter of newer cars, '75 and
    newer.  Lead generally has an additive to protect older cars harder
    valve guides, and also increased the octane which prevented older cars
    from knocking and pinging, due to the fact many of them had high(er)
    compression engines.

I remember when unleaded gas and catalytic converters were just coming into
vogue in the 70's. I was in the market for a car and was buying a VW.
Somehow I got into a discussion with This Professional Automotive Sales
Executive about unleaded gas and he started going into a fifteen minute
program on how the engines in cars spec'ed for unleaded were specially
designed with differences in the pistons and cylinders. He drew diagrams
and everything. I asked him about the catalytic converters and he said
he'd never heard of them.

    RE:
    
    ... city trash removal picking up leaves
    Bad idea, lawn refuse is more to blame for landfills getting closed
    than any other single catagory. 
    
    ... spring in New England
    
    Happens every March.  If not, get a new calendar
    
    ... income tax returns
    
    Everyone has one, I want to know where the refunds are.
    
    ... saleable DEC stock
    
    Your stock is liquid, just not profitable
    
    ... insurance premium refunds
    
    Got mine last year in the Spring.  Must have had the right calendar.
    
    ... Mungo Jerry
    
    Last seen buying unleaded gas in Vegas
    
    	
    Brian

    <- Obviously, you weren't in N.E. between March and June when summer
       finally showed...
    
       Besides, can't people recognize rhetoric :-)

>       Besides, can't people recognize rhetoric :-)

No they can't.

    <- Editorial? :-)

    The damn clips that hold the gas nozzle on so you don't have to stand
    there and squeeze the thing while every drop dispenses... were the
    removed from self-service gas stations because some bozo was too stupid
    to figure out how to use them, and ended up accidentally blowing up a
    gas station?
    
    -b

    Oops, forgot about the $0.19 burgers...
    
    They're with Elvis.  :-)

    They're all *in* Elvis...

    
    My gas station still has those clip thingies.  Conversely you can wedge
    your gas cap under the trigger and that keeps the gas flowing but still
    allows it to shut off automatically.
    
    Deb the Car Expert

    Not when your gas cap has those plastic retainers on it that don't
    allow it to be completely removed... and on my other vehice, the
    gas cap is small so it only makes a good wedge for the nozzle if
    I'm willing to spend 20 minutes pumping gas...
    
    -b

    
    Ah.  Hmm.
    
    Buy yourself a wedging item!
    
    Or, go to my gas station!  8^)

         88888888888                      PPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
	8888888888888                    PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
       888	   888                   PP              PP
       888	   888                   PP              PP
       888	   888                   PP             PP
       888	   888                   PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
       888	   888  --------------   PPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
       888888888888888  --------------   PP
       888	   888  --------------   PP
       888	   888                   PP
       888	   888                   PP
       888	   888                   PP
       888	   888                   PP
	8888888888888                    PP
         88888888888

    >Buy yourself a wedging item!
    
    Yes, well. I've been given similar advice in the past... :-)
    
    -b

    <--- This troubles me.

    
    My, my, what a tongue!

    >>than any other single catagory.
    
    psssttt....brian....it's 'category'... :> :>
    
    
    and deb, i could have sworn that i saw someplace it was illegal (or
    something like that) to put your gas cap in the handle of the gas thing
    to keep it pumping...not sure why...just remember that you are not
    supposed to do it...
    
    but i stil wish all gas pumps had those clips...makes it so much
    easier...especially on the cold days or when your windshield needs
    wiping and you don't have all day...
    
    

    
    Pah!  On illegalities.  Pah!  I say.

    
       Wedging Item...  Hmmm is that similiar to a box stretcher?

    
    
    <---ouch
    
    

    .57
        <---ouch   whoops!   I was thinking about a cardboard box 8*)  
    
        yours is funnier...8*)

    
    I wouldn't be so sure about that!

>    ... insurance premium refunds
    
    
    	Anyone can still get insurance premium refunds -- if they are
    	willing to use insurance companies that overcharge in the first
    	place...

    
    
    RE: .55 Deb, you rabblerouser you......
    
    

re: .37, Brian

>    Bad idea, lawn refuse is more to blame for landfills getting closed
>    than any other single catagory. 

Why is that?

    	My garden is one reason why there is less landfill need for
    	lawn refuse from my neighborhood.

    Raq, thanks for pointing that out, really, thanks.  I feel so much more
    edukated now.  :-)   
    
    Jack, by volume, lawn waste occupies more space in landfills than any
    other catEgory of waste including paper and paper products.  Leaves
    etc. will not decompose in a sanitary landfill so the volume remains
    constant as opposed to composting which has a net volume reduction by a
    factor of 10 or so and can then be reused as mulch, fertilizer etc.  In 
    contrast, the evil, assault McDonald's boxes which were falsely accused 
    of being the number one polluter and landfill occupier comprise less 
    than 1/10th of 1% of landfill volumes.  If I can find the list of
    percentages for various categories of garbage, I will post it.   
    
    Brian

Glad I just pile my lawn refuse up in the woods, then, I guess.

    .37:
    
�    ... saleable DEC stock
�    
�    Your stock is liquid, just not profitable
    
    For far too long, it looked like it was not merely liquid, but a
    recycled liquid...
    
    Dick

The Carpenters?

    50% of 'em are still around but not performing.  Karen succumbed to
    anorexia some time back.  Every time I hear an old recording, I wanna
    say STOP SINGING INTO THAT DAMN MICROPHONE AND EAT IT, EAT SOMETHING!!
                                                               ---------

    Guess they're still around.  This one got me.
    

    The Carpenters:
    
    Just think... if only Mama Cass had _shared_ that fateful ham
    sandwich...
    
    -b

    Do I gather that she snuffed it while munching on a pig?  Seemz rather
    coals-to-Newcastleish of her, if I remember her appearance.
    

    She either choked on a ham sandwich or she choked on her own vomit
    after eating said ham sandwich.  I don't remember which.  It
    was...1974?  1975?

    Choking on ham sandwich is urban legend.
    
    She died of a heart attack.
    
    Too bad -- she had a wonderful voice and a lot of musicianship.

    
    Hmph.  That really kills the joke now doesn't it.
    

    
    she deserves better..

    
>>    she deserves better..

	indisputably

    Yeah but........
    
    even if Mama Cass had offered half her ham sandwich, would Karen have
    eaten it?
    
    

    
    Where's RAHhoney?

 . . . Marilu Henner, who used to play Elaine Nardo on Taxi?

    she was in evening shade with burt reynolds....

    How long were they there? Did they turn the lights on when it got too
    dark?

    don't know how long they were there, but some things are best left
    to the dark :-))))

    Oh sure, make light of my legit question why don't you.
    
    ;-)

Well, thankgoodness she's not dead or anything. (I just keep
remembering what happened when I asked about Karen Carpenter . . . )

Re: <<< Note 96.79 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

>> . . . Marilu Henner, who used to play Elaine Nardo on Taxi?

She is going to have, has or had a talk show.

                               Roak

Just look to me for details :-)

    Marilu Henner has a talk show in this area...I don`t know what station
    its on. Suzzanne Sommers also has one in this area...right after
    Marilu.

Marilu Henner?  Suzanne Somers?  Talk shows?
That's a bit unsettling.

If Spike the Squirrel regains full health, maybe he
can get a gig on TV.

    Spike was up and about this morning making all sorts of noise. I`m
    takin him/her to the Vets tonight. I don`t think he would survive in
    the wild because of his injuries. I think he/she (also need to
    determine its sex) would do better than Marilu or Suzanne.

    All this talk of MaryLous, what about Ms. Retton?  Last time I saw her,
    she was an elf in Scrooged.

    Saw an interesting commentary on the Von Trapp Children from Sound of
    Music..
    
    Leisel - Hollywood designer for stars like Michael Jackson...mother of
             four children out in California.  
    
    Louisa (the blonde) - Mother of two children and wife to actor Robert
    Urich (Spencer for Hire)
    
    Brigitta (Angela Cartwright) - Acts from time to time and owns fashion
    boutique out in California.
    
    Gretel - (Little cute one) - Also resides in California with husband
    and child.  Played a role on All My Children I believe.  
                                               

Well then, putting on my sexist smile and my best SUBURBian accent -

	So, is Marilu Henner still as boinkable a babe as she used
	to be when she was on Taxi, er wot?

Jack, you should read her autobiography.  There really is
one...  I wish I were making this up.

Apparently she recounts her trysts with everyone who was
on Taxi....  Jeff Conaway, Tony Danza, Judd Hirsch.  She
was a very, uh, friendly person, apparently.

    Ms. Retton is Mrs. ?? who is expecting their first child.
    
    No, I don`t think Marilu is as "boinkable" as she was in taxie...

    Marilu was a prty girl during Taxi's run.
    
    Chip
    
    P.S. still boinkable IMO

    Saw her on Conan O'Brien, she looked pretty good to me.

    I`m getting picky in my old age...!

	saw her talk show once, when she was interviewing little
	people.  i thought she looked better than she did on "Taxi".

    I agree. In fact I am amazed at how some people look better with age.

    catch the clip of Sophia Loren and Mercello Mastriani (sp) in
    that new movie (can't remember the name - fashion?)
    
    Yeeeowzaaa!
    
    Chip

 Whatever happened to snarfs?

>    I agree. In fact I am amazed at how some people look better with age.

Judging from the dorky pictures in my HS yearbook, it's a good thing.

    >> I agree. In fact I am amazed at how some people look better with age.
    
    So would all of us, if we had $100K worth of assorted face lifts,
    eye pouch-ectomies, liposuctions, hair transplants and colorings,
    and the leisure time to spend working out, like these celebs do.
    For example, Kenny Rogers had so many face lifts that his beard
    line ended up behind his ears; Joan Rivers had so many pulls that
    (according to one article) her face basically froze into an
    "expression of perpetual surprise".
    
    There's probably a medical lab warehouse somewhere containing
    shelves and shelves of formaldehyde jars labelled "Faces of the
    Stars", with enough material in them to create a whole new
    celebrity.
    
    Of course, the flip side is that what goes up must come down, and
    when some of the face lifts start to "fall", it's bad news (check
    out the closeups during Roseanne No-Last-Name's recent SNL appearance.
    Scary stuff.
    
    Chris

	still, some people just look better with age.  no touch-ups,
	no nothing.

    <---- I agree.

    speaking from experience, Di, you are!

>>    speaking from experience, Di, you are!

	um, well yes.  i know some people like that.

    .106
    
    TOO modest, IMNSHO!!!

Being delayed at home this AM due to the snow, I did a bit of channel
surfing between NEXT UNSEEN's and happened to run across Marilu's
talk show.

I guess I would have to conclude that she looked every bit as good as
she did on Taxi.

    
    
    re: the von trapp kids...
    
    the names that were used in the movie...is that their real names???
    
    and i had always thought they were all dead by now...
    
    

    
    I entered this a few weeks ago!

           <<< BACK40::BACK40$DKA500:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< Soapbox.  Just Soapbox. >-
================================================================================
Note 96.90                 Whatever Happened To ... ?                  90 of 109
MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I lied; I hate the fat dinosaur"    15 lines  10-JAN-1995 09:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Saw an interesting commentary on the Von Trapp Children from Sound of
    Music..
    
    Leisel - Hollywood designer for stars like Michael Jackson...mother of
             four children out in California.  
    
    Louisa (the blonde) - Mother of two children and wife to actor Robert
    Urich (Spencer for Hire)
    
    Brigitta (Angela Cartwright) - Acts from time to time and owns fashion
    boutique out in California.
    
    Gretel - (Little cute one) - Also resides in California with husband
    and child.  Played a role on All My Children I believe.  
                                               

        Or, for  the  real  thing, take a run up to Stowe, Vt and visit
        the Von Trapp   family  home - seems they all finished up there
        after escaping from Austria  and  bumming  around  the  US as a
        singing group.  Seem to  remember  that  Maria  and  others are
        buried on the grounds.    

        &y
        

>>        Or, for  the  real  thing, take a run up to Stowe, Vt and visit
>>        the Von Trapp   family  home - seems they all finished up there
>>        after escaping from Austria  and  bumming  around  the  US as a
>>        singing group.  Seem to  remember  that  Maria  and  others are
>>        buried on the grounds.    


	Wonderful place!   My husband and I spent our honeymoon at the 
	Von Trapp Family Inn!   very nice place!        

	Pat

    	I thought the von Trapp place burned down years ago.  Was it
    	rebuilt?

    Oh yes.  My parents own two timeshares there.  The resort has lodges
    and a five star hotel!

    And a cemetery to hide in.

 . . . RAH?

	like the doctah said, he's around, just not being vocal.

I miss his salient contributions.

And the other ones, too.

 moi aussi.  a real way with words.

>I miss his salient contributions.

They've been replaced with silent contributions.

    	Mitch Miller

    	Toxic Shock Syndrome.

    ...Joe Piscopo?
    

    	GNC

 . . . those little coins printed on the cardboard inside a Boyers' Mallow
Cup?

 Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen...(the band).  I was listening
 to a tape of theirs tonight and got to wondering.  They were a fun
 band to see, which I had the occasion to do many times.  I know
 George Frayne (AKA the good Commander) got a band together with the
 CC and his LPA name, but I don't think there were many originals in
 that one..coincidentally whilst talking to my brother tonight he mentioned
 that their guitar player (Bill Kirchen) was playing somewhere in the NYC
 area..



 Jim

    I believe that Frayne passed on some time ago...
    
    Chip

  I know he was badly banged up in a car wreck, but he survived that.  



 Jim

    
    Hot Rod Lincoln

| Hot Rod Lincoln

	Wasn't he shot in the head or sumpin??

    No, but he got his tire fixed in a jiffy and made it outta that red
    neck bar with his skin intact...

    
    I thought that was Charlie Daniels.

	Deb, that's the guy who named a drink after his brother....

    8-p
    
    JD... 8-p

    i've heard it several times on 93.7 (Eagle) over the past few weeks.
    i love that song...
    
    "son you're gonna drive me ta drinkin' if ya don't stop drivin' that
     Hot... Rod... Lincoln."
    
    Chip

    >i love that song...
    
     Yeah, it's got a catchy riff.

Commander Cody and the lost planet airmen.

    Dan Rostenkowski?

    >   > Dan Rostenkowski
       
       
    >   Anagram:  Now a kink to dress
     
    
    Hmmm. I wonder if he was related to J. Edgar...  
    
    -b

    Rostenkowski has been indicted; trial supposed to begin later this
    summer.
    

    
    WEH to the Cowsills?     

 Eeeesh...

    Re: .142
    
    I knew, I knew, I knew,
    I could make her happy!
    Flowers in her hair,
    Flowers everywhere!!

re .144:

You forgot the icky harp arpeggio.

    Cowsills,
    
    Turned out to be your basic dysfunctional family; Mom/Dad split,
    several kids had trouble with the law & drugs.....
    
    

WHT:
	Analog clocks that operate on alternating current?

	I haven't seen one in a store or a catalog for years.

	You have a choice of analog clocks with quartz movement which
     operate on batteries, or digital clocks which operate on alternating
     current.

	Unfortunately, when there's a power faliure while you're away
     from home, the former tell you nothing about either the time or
     duration of the event, and the latter generally only tell you
     how long it's been since the power was restored. Neither tell
     you how long it was off.

	Good old analog AC clocks were good for that . . . 

    I went looking for such an analog clock for my studio. I wanted
    something with nice big numbers, that I could mount above the
    console and use to time songs/voice-overs, etc. All the analog
    clocks I could find in the stores were cheesy. So, I heard
    about clocks that were in some industrial catalog... I checked
    them out: $275! For a clock! Not an especially fancy clock
    either, just a plain old clock, albeit with a second hand
    and big numbers! Probably the same clocks Digital has hanging
    in most plants...

    -b

> Probably the same clocks Digital has hanging in most plants...

Or, "Used to have". The things in ZKO are now updated via radio signal
or something, with quartz movement.

Yer right, Brian, I don't wanna spend $275 for what I used to be able
to get for about $6.

Perhaps there's a business opportunity here in accumulating and restoring
AC analog clocks . . . 

You mean you can't get Westclox analog AC alarm clocks at Woolworth's?
You could try thrift shops and yard sales.

 Are there still Woolworth's?

    Yes.  

 Mail1::Crane

    Thanks for the info Karen! I'll check it out.

    Lesse,
    	
    	Visually impaired... yup, that's me...
        Hearing impaired... yup, that's me _and_ my entire band...
        Mobility impaired... oh my, that's definitely me! ... 

    	:-) :-)

    -b

    $.15 gas...

     I have three analog AC clocks.  I didn't realize they were valuable
    now.  Two of the three are cheap alarm clocks.  I'm suprised someplace
    like Walgreens wouldn't sell what you're looking for.
    
    I don't buy digital clocks.  I have to switch back to analog in my head
    anyway to know what time it is, so it's just a waste of effort to get
    the digital variety.
    
    Lisa

One serving of beans costs only 15�.

>One serving of beans costs only 15�.

In da Box, it's free, almost...

TTom

    -1 Bwahahahahah.......
    
       petrol folks, petrol!

re: Jim
> Mail1::Crane

Not to mention, Spike?

 Forgot about Spike :-(

Whatever happened to Gene the Sheep Shagger?  I miss his caustic comments.
Will he ever return to the 'box?

Chris.

	Spike was cool!

	I saw Gene at the last bash at Deb's house. :-)

    	Gene lives in the quasi-wilds outside of Colorado Springs.  He
    	no longer works for DEC, so you won't see him here I'm afraid...

    re. a few back
    
    {bursts into song}
    
    We're Woolworths the fresh food people, 
    and you can't get fresher than that!
    
    sorry.

WHT:
    Woolworths?

    was there a question in there ?

    Glenn+
    
    Maybe I missed something, but not one word from the multiple one
    to-day.
    
    
    joan

There are still some Woolworth's stores in the U.S.  F'rinstance, there's
one on Harvard St. in Brookline MA.

    There was a Woolworth's store in Lynn on Boston Street last time I
    checked.
    
    Dan

There's still a Woolworth's in Bishop's Stortford.  It has the most
disorganised record department I've ever encountered!

Chris.

    
    
    	There's one in Santa Monica.
    

There has to be a bunch of them somewhere, I believe Woolworths is one of
the 30 Dow Jones Industrial Average stocks.

The ticker symbol is Z.

    Did you learn counterintelligence there?

No, but he applied disinfectant to the lunch counter so as to eradicate the
counterculture.

    Was it effective in reducing the counterweight?  Or did he need to
    counterbalance that?

    what a counter-revolutionary way to address bacteria 

FWIW, they've actually perserved the Woolworth's counter that was the
site of a sit in in Greensboro, NC. It was one of the early civil rights
protests.

TTom

    
    re: .182
    
    Chip...
    
     >what a counter-revolutionary way to address bacteria
    
    It's called "counter-culture"...
    

re .184:

See .180.

    
    
    Oooooooops!!! 
    
    This Mickey Mantle.... he some kinda ball player??
    

    re: Woolworth's
    
    They've been steadily disappearing from the landscape for the last
    thirty years, but particularly in the last ten years or so.  It seems
    that towns like Bedford and Concord are quite happy to be rid of them.
    
    It's too bad, too.  They used to be great for getting offbeat things
    like stuff for a kid's stamp collection or to look at parakeets.  They
    used to keep a lot of old stuff around too, like the aforementioned
    records, so you could find oldies long after no one else carried them
    anymore.  It was also great for cheapo but fun little toys and goodies.
    
    I made sure to take the kids to one of the Woolworth's lunch counters
    before the last one in our area was vaporized, and gave them an
    extra-long-winded speech in my "Here's what things used to be like"
    series.
    
    Chris

    Our Woolworth's disappeared about twenty years ago but I used to go to
    their lunch counter for the chocolate cake and very, very cold milk.
    
    They tried to bring it back a few years ago, as a catalogue store, it
    didn't work, I've not seen one since.
    
    
    joan

    When I was growing up, I seem to remember a Woolworth's,
    a JJ Newbury's and a W.T. Grant on the main drag in Clinton.
    Mom and I used to walk up there sometimes in the summer and
    she'd buy me a toy at Woolworth's.  They used to have bins 
    of great cheap toys.....
    
    I have no idea what the main drag looks like now, but I 
    know all three of those are long, long gone. Dang! Now I'm
    feeling old... :-(
    
    Mary-Michael

What?  No McCrory's?

>   <<< Note 96.189 by SMURF::MSCANLON "alliaskofmyselfisthatiholdtogether" >>>
>    I have no idea what the main drag looks like now, but I 

Well, the Strand is back in business...
Nice place, too. Saw "Outbreak" there a couple of weeks ago.

I only vaguely remember the McCrory's stores, but I do remember the cheap
toys at Woolworth's! Bins full of tiny plastic airplanes, each one a fair
rendition of a real plane, make/model labeled under the wings.

    
    RE: .190
    
    >What?  No McCrory's?
    
     
     Wow!! A blast outa the past!! There was one of those three doors down
    from the Woolworths in my town...
    

    
    re: .191
    
    RE: planes
    
     Which are probably worth a fortune as "antiques" or "coolectibles"
    today....
    

McCrory's was owned by a company that was run by Meshullam Riklis, Pia Zadora's
husband.  Despite the lackluster performance of said company, he had one of the
highest salaries of any CEO in the U.S.

    There is one in the Mall in Big Flats N.Y. between Elmira and Corning.  

There's a joke in there somewhere (Pia Zadora and Big Flats), but I leave it
to someone better than I.

    re: .189
    
    What, no S.S. Kresge's?  :-)  Didn't Kresge's ultimately (de-)evolve
    into K-Mart?
    
    
    re: Pia Zadora and Big Flats joke
    
    Depends on whether you're talking about her body or her singing...
    
    Chris

    I adore a big flat pizza

>    What, no S.S. Kresge's?  :-)  Didn't Kresge's ultimately (de-)evolve
>    into K-Mart?

Yes, and the Kresge family was very upset when they changed the corporate
name to K-Mart.

    	WHT Clothes-line-dried sheets and towels?

>>    	WHT Clothes-line-dried sheets and towels?

	they got folded up and put in a drawer or a linen closet, usually.

    WHT those combination hose reels/sprinklers that used to "walk" through
    the yard so you didn't have to move it manually. When I was a kid, it 
    seemed like everyone had one.

    They still exist, and you too can buy one for your very own, for the
    trifling sum of $150 or so at Home Depot.

    
    They learned how to get free of their leashes.  While the killer bees
    have been heading north, the marching sprinklers have been heading
    south.  The four armed sprinklers (the males) never made it to the
    border, having been taken for trophies by members of white supremacist
    groups. The two armed sprinklers (the females) have reached as far
    as Bogota, Columbia.  But some members of the cartel have taken to
    a new sport, taking their 4x4's and turning them into road pizzas.
    They are now officially on the endangered species list.
    
    								-mr. bill

    Colombia.
    
    \hth

    re: .190
    
    No, no McCrory's.  I never saw one of those until I ventured
    into New Hampshire.  I do, however, remember a J.C. Penney store 
    (where where my mother took me to buy those trendy plaid wool jumpers
    that the good Sisters of the Presentation so liked us to wear :-),
    a Sears catalog store, an Aubuchon hardware store and a True
    Value hardware store which looked like it had been there for
    about 3 centuries (you know the type, uneven wood plank floors,
    little bins full of stuff, where if you can't find it anywhere
    else, the guy's got one out back).  Oh, and the Strand, which,
    even though I'm glad to hear it's open again probably doesn't
    have double feature Disney films on Saturday afternoons
    for 75 cents :-)  Hand me my cane! (shudder, shudder!)
    
    Mary-Michael

    re: .207
    
    Truely a pointless task.  However, there is no drier in the
    world that can match the smell of fresh, line-dried sheets and
    towels, IMO.
    
    Mary-Michael

This oughta evoke a few memories, Gerald -

Downtown Syracuse in the 50's and early 60's -

    McCrory's, Woolworth's, Kresge's, Rexall Drugs, Walgreens and a buncha
    hometown departments stores (E.W. Edwards, Dey Brothers, Chappels). No
    Sears (it was located in a more residential area). No J.C. Penneys. No
    Montgomery Wards. No Macy's. Bunch of smaller stores and a handful of movie
    theaters (Eckel, Loew's State, Loew's Strand, RKO Keiths) that charged a
    quarter on Saturday afternoons. A dime to ride the bus home. The Karmelkorn
    shop was right next to Kresge's and the Planters Peanut shop was right
    next door to the Loew's State if you couldn't afford the Good N Plenty's
    from the theater. And a whole basement full of used books at Economy
    Bookstore to browse through after the movie.

    Me um impressed.
    
    Onondaga

As well you should be, as this was in the very heart of Onondaga County.

Have you managed to keep your Gak, et. al. clear of the sandbox?

And is the silly string holding up OK?

    
    
    Sounds like anywhere USA, Jack.  I remember Belmar NJ.  I remember the
    smell of walking into the Rexall drugstore, a very pronounced odor of
    the different products.  Also, the A&P, Freedman's bakery, Bill's
    Hardware store and of course H.E. Wannemacher Jewelers.......
    
    
    

    
    When I visited my grandmother in High Point, NC we used to shop at the
    Big Bear and the Piggly-Wiggly.

>                   and of course H.E. Wannemacher Jewelers.......
    
Is that where they kept the family jewels?

    
    
    Aaahhh, my Grandad was a jewel alright.  He went in and pulled all his
    money out of the bank 2 weeks before they closed some 60+ years ago. 
    All his friends and relatives thought he went off the deep end.
    
    
    

    My uncle had a drugstore with a soda fountain in Shrewsbury, MA
    when I was small. I remember the cool green marble counter
    and the swivel stools.  He used to make the best chocolate 
    ice cream sodas.......mmmmmmmm
    
    We'd stop in on our way to shopping expeditions at 
    R.H. White's and Denholm's in Worcester.
    
    Mary-Michael

    re: .218
    
    Hey! I grew up in Central Mass, Spag's is a given!
    I didn't say my parents took me to church every Sunday
    either, did I? :-) :-) :-) :-) 
    
    Mary-Michael

    As I'm thinking about all these things long gone from
    my childhood, I'm reminded of something so unique to 
    our neighborhood that unless you grew up on the Acre in
    Clinton, you wouldn't remember (HOTLNE::CORMIER will, though :-)
    -- outdoor summer movies.  One of my closest friends father
    (she still is, as a matter of fact), operated a Kodak film
    store out of his home.  He had a film projector (with sound!)
    and occasionally got cartoons, a James Bond movie (always shown
    later after we were supposed to be in bed :-) and the like.  
    He had a large outdoor screen in his backyard.  In the summer,
    we would all troop up, in our pj's with our popcorn and 
    watch drive-in movies without the car :-)  There are many
    things I think of when summer rolls around, vacations at
    the ocean, my mother bravely passing popsicles out to
    half the neighborhood from the kitchen window :-) and
    outdoor movies at the house up the street :-)
    
    Mary-Michael  

    Saw a show on it recently, an amazing list of high profile oganizations
    are working on it. The original guy is now in France working on it, he
    could not get support in the US, and is now funded from Japan. From the
    oganizations involved, I would be surprised if it did not pan out.
    
    							Derek.

 they still around?

    
    New Order?  They released a new CD about 2 or 3 years ago, and they put
    out some kind of `greatest hits' package recently.
    
    Saw them in concert once; they were dead boring.  Glad I didn't
    pay for it.
    

    
>>    Saw them in concert once; 

	Me too.  They weren't dead boring, but the sound system was
	the worst.  Muddy as all get-out.  I liked a couple of their
	tunes, but of course, that was about 10 years ago.

    
    C'mon, Di, you know how I take it personally when people disagree
    with me.  :^)
    
    Maybe "dead boring" was too strong, but I find that their stuff all
    sounds the same after a while, and certainly no different live than
    on the album, with the exception that the drummer kept losing time
    in concert.
    
    He couldn't `keep it up', as it were!
    

    I like the song "Blue Monday" and also the video to er,can`t remember
    the name of the song but it`s the one where various characters are
    bouncing about in big rubbery outfits.
    
    They had the lead singer/guitarist on a medical programme about his
    depression problem. Yup,I can believe that. 
    
    Though I guess he`s not as depressed as their previous lead singer
    when they were known as Joy Division. Mainly `cos he hung himself.
    

Joy Division were okay, but after Ian Curtis got bored with living, Gillian
Gilbert joined the band and they renamed themselves New Order, they were
crap.  Except for Blue Monday, which is okay.

Chris.

    Thanks for the update.
    
    I appreciate that.
    

    
    whatever happened to "Boonsfarm" wine?
    
    70's wine, popular when SNL was a great show.
    
    

    
    
    	Still sell it in the grocery stores.  $1.99 bottle.
    	I think it's only gone up 20 cents in the past 12 years.
    
    	(If memory serves it was $1.79 when I was in HS)
    
    	JJ
    

    
>    whatever happened to "Boonsfarm" wine?
 
    They changed the name to "Boonesfarm" and the rest is history.



   
   Jim    
    

    
    Kier Dullea?
    
    Gary Lockwood?
    

    
    Joe Strummer?

    
    Last I heard, Joe Strummer had replaced Shane McGowan in The Pogues,
    and Shane had formed a new band called The Popes.
    

    
    The Grateful Dead??
    

    	Bobby Sherman?

    "Magic Shell"
    
    
    				You knoe the ice cream syrup that turned
    hard after you poured it over your ice cream. Never did find out what
    chemical was used in that.????????????????????????/
    

    Magic Shell is still available in Texas.
    
    Bob

           <<< Note 96.240 by CSC32::J_OPPELT "Wanna see my scar?" >>>
                                   -< WHT: >-

>   	Bobby Sherman?

The last I saw, he was living in Seattle.

    
    > Never did find out what chemical was used in that.
    
    You probably don't want to know anyway....
    
    Dan
    

.234:    

>    Kier Dullea?
    
	Keir Dullea, gone tommorrow
    

 Van Earl Wright  CNN Headline spoooooooooooooooorts..


 I liked the way he'd say "Los Anjeleeeeeeze"

Van Earl was too good to be allowed to continue.

I think he signed some deal with the Tigers or Lions (one of the Detroit
teams).

TTom

 Bummer.  He made the sports reports interesting.

    Van Earl is a Sportscaster on a Detroit TV Station. He still goes DEEP!
    

 But does he still say "Los Anjeleeeeeeeeeeeeeez"?

    	WHT:
    
    	the mystery enevelope in the OJ trial?

           <<< Note 96.251 by CSC32::J_OPPELT "Wanna see my scar?" >>>

>    	the mystery enevelope in the OJ trial?

	Ruled inadmissable. It wasn't the murder weapon and the DA didn't
	mention it in their case. So it's irrelevent.

Jim

    
    Lindsay Nelson, one of the best college football broadcasters imo.

    ...... all the evening noters? 
    
    Man have things ever changed.

    
    I'm here.
    
    

    This is most reassuring. Yes indeedy do da day.

 I'm here!

    Careful Jim, Martin might tell you to go to bed.

I'm here (now), too.

    And how about now?

Well, as a matter of fact, yes. I do believe so.

    So, it's a linear thing then.

    wow.

>    wow.

Well, you know what they say - "O, ho, hoh, o, wow, ow."

    JIM!! Go ta bed, it's late !!! :*)

    regular nightime noters include :
    
    Jim 
    Glenn
    Glen 
    Jack
    Deb
    Chele (well it's daytime akachulli)
    myself ( ditto )
    JC
    John Covert
    

    What the he%% am I doing here this late. I thought it was two thirty in
    the afternoon.??
                                                      

    
    I'm here starting at midnight, but by the time I get around to 
    reading the notes you guys entered in the evening, it's morning
    already, if that makes any sense.
    
    My head hurts.
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    SNARF!!!!
    
    I'm here.  I just got done fixing my truck during half time.
    
    MadMike

    
    What happened to Raq ?   Did someone pi*s her off and she's not
    in here anymore.  
    
    Just wondering..

    
    	I guess she got a life.
    
    	As soon as I got one, I'm GONE.  8^)
    

guess you'll be here a while, eh shawn????

    
    	Yes.  [sniff!]
    

    	WHT
    
    	The office of Surgeon General?
    
    	Looks like a great candidate for budgetary slashing.  Shouldn't
    	the nation have collapsed by now because the office has remained
    	vacant for so long?
    
    	Bring on the "train wreck".  It'll point out many more such
    	governmental offices/programs/functions we can do without!

    
    if train wreck means going into default, it's something we 
    definitely don't want to see.
    
    

    
    > if train wreck means going into default, it's something we 
    > definitely don't want to see.

    Why not?  It seems to me that the bond holders would be much happier
    with a borrower with a balanced budget than one who was on his way to
    the poor house.  So they have to hold their bonds for an additional
    month or two, I don't see this as a problem.  There will still be a
    market for them (the matured bonds), admittedly a new market, but a 
    market none the less.

    Once we default, the cost of borrowing will go up (since the risk that
    we won't pay when we say we're going to will have increased.) That
    means the budget deficit will just get bigger, even if efforts are
    undertaken to cut discretionary spending, due to the immense national
    debt (the interest payments on which are a huge portion of the annual
    outlays.)

This is all politics. Clinton is taking a gamble. If he does nothing he
will not get re-elected so he is making a bold move to appear strong and
decisive. It works to convince those people that can't keep their
minds eye on the real problem to be solved (generally called a diversionary
tactic).

Shutting down government is a great way to set up for the 1996 elections, for
both sides, but in the end, Clinton will come out on the short end as he
will not be able to balance his election platform with his actions as
president; a divide that the repubs will capitalize on bigtime.

I can see the ads now, "Clinton told you this, Clinton did that". Actions
speak louder than words!

Meanwhile,  More dems leave their posts  :-)

Doug.

    > This is all politics.
    
    You bet it is.
    
    The repubs vowed, after they won so many seats in '94, that they'd not
    compromise an inch with Slock - he could do it their way or not at all. 
    
    Now they're trying to lard temporary spending bills with bad riders,
    riders that aren't related, riders that would be bad for the country
    even if they were on permanent bills, and then hold you and me to
    ransom for their asinine tactics, claiming that Slick's at fault
    because they're not getting any compromise from him.
    
    I find it refreshing to see that they're getting some of their own
    medicine back, and I truly hope Slick doesn't blink.  It's about time
    somebody made the Congress pass bills that are related to their titles
    for a change, don't you think?

    Yeah, I really liked the news conference the other day when the
    Administration whiner complained about the republicans' having attached
    bills to the continuing resolution. When asked by a member of the media
    about the democrats' own use of precisely that tactic, the hemming and
    hawing was a sight to behold.

re: .280

Translation:

    It's ok for the republicans to give us bad legislation, because
    the democrats did it when they were in control.

It's sad the republicans don't care about their credibility any more
than the democrats do.

\john

 >   The repubs vowed, after they won so many seats in '94, that they'd not
 >   compromise an inch with Slock - he could do it their way or not at all. 
 
 Not quite. the repubs (Newt actually) said was where they can find common
 ground, they would work together (cooperate), but the repubs would not 
 comprise their goals of balancing the budget and shrinking government. Both 
 goals that Clinton ran on in '92.

 >    Now they're trying to lard temporary spending bills with bad riders,
 >   riders that aren't related, riders that would be bad for the country
 >   even if they were on permanent bills, 

 Outside of the opinion expressed, the reasons for these riders is more because
 Clinton has refused to respond to the multitude of invitations to or participate
 in discussions on the budget since May of this year. Clinton has deliberately 
 alienated the republican controlled congress. Then he vetos a perfectly 
 reasonable appropriation bill becuase it came in the wrong order of business 
 that Clinton did not publish before hand. These riders put Clinton on the
 spot and force him to act and participate, if not in the most vulgar way.
 
 >and then hold you and me to ransom for their asinine tactics, claiming 
 >that Slick's at fault because they're not getting any compromise from him.
 
  You've got to give to receive. Both sides are guilty of exactly the
  same behavior, the direct result of Clintons refusal to participate. If it 
  takes riders to start plugging the federal spending holes then by god, 
  lets have riders! or just shut the whole thing down for awhile.

  If Clinton wants to go down as the uncompromising, debt defaulting president
  then so be it. 

  BTW:  I seem to recall a budget session under Reagan that wasn't settled till
  April of the following year ... Seems we have a way to go yet.

  Also, it was the freshman repubs that are pushing these riders more than it
  is the repub leadership.

  Doug.

    Reminds me of dogs and fire hydrants.

    .282
    
    > Not quite. the repubs (Newt actually) said...
    
    Dob Dole said "We will not give an inch."  When pressed, he said that
    the 7-year budget balancing act was imperative and would not be
    compromised.  Not even, it has turned out, to the point of considering
    that Slick's 10-year proposal actually was vastly more reasonable.
    
    > Clinton has refused to respond to the multitude of invitations...
    
    ...to agree with whatever the Republican-controlled Congress proposed.

RE:  last few on riders to the continuing resolution

The riders may not be "bad legislation".  For example, the White House is
trying to defend the Commerce Department.  One way that they can keep it 
funded is to have government by continuing resolution: we just keep 
spending money at or near last year's level -- until 1996.  The GOP could 
be simply saying, "Look.  We will live with a continuing resolution until 
the details are worked out, but some of this spending has to stop now."
The White House knows that the GOP has promised a balanced budget by 2002,
if they can delay the start of those cuts for even a few months, they can
make it difficult, if not immpossible, for the GOP to deliver on that 
promise.

       <<< Note 96.284 by SMURF::BINDER "Eis qui nos doment uescimur." >>>

>   Not even, it has turned out, to the point of considering
>   that Slick's 10-year proposal actually was vastly more reasonable.

According to the CBO report, the White House plan doesn't balance the 
budget in 10 years.  That doesn't sound very "reasonable" to me.

(Of course, I also have my doubts that the GOP can do it in seven years.)

re: .285 (Kevin)

C'mon Kevin, admit it.  You sound EXACTLY like the democratic apologists
trying to whitewash the riders.  "That mean ol' Prez Bush will veee-toh
this important spending to keep our very young and very old healthy.  We
need to attach this to something we know he'll sign."

It's not new.  What's new is this crop of excuses for why it's ok when
your guys do it, but not when those guys do.

\john

>Translation:

>    It's ok for the republicans to give us bad legislation, because
>    the democrats did it when they were in control.
    
     Get your secret decoder ring fixed, eh?

    WEHT Joe Palooka?

    
   | Why not?  It seems to me that the bond holders would be much
   | happier with a borrower with a balanced budget than one who was on his way
   | to the poor house.  So they have to hold their bonds for an additional
   | month or two, I don't see this as a problem.  There will still be a
   | market for them (the matured bonds), admittedly a new market, but a
   | market none the less.
    
    you might not see it as a problem, but foreign investors could. 
    suddenly the cost of money could go up big time, raising the
    service payments on the debt and causing a much bigger deficit
    to have to dig our way out of.  anybody who relishes the prospect
    of clinton being stubborn enough to send the country in default
    is cutting off their nose to spite their face.  the alternative
    scenario of republicans capitulating and abandoning the seven
    year deficit plan is also dangerous.  repubs should make concessions
    on environmental stuff but they can't give up on their fiscal targets.
    
    
     
     

              <<< Note 96.287 by ALPHAZ::HARNEY "John A Harney" >>>

No, John, there are critical differences.  The most important question
is: does a continuing resolution meet the needs?  It is an emergency-only
instrument.

Additional spending in a continuing resolution would only be justified 
if there was an emergency need that was not being met in a plain continuing 
resolution.  An example might be emergency funding for some major disaster.  
Keeping "our very young and very old healthy" doesn't hack it unless you 
can show that last year's funding didn't provide critical services.  The 
necessary proof, of course, would be thousands of sick and dying.  If such 
a case ever happened, then it would be an emergency situation, and a case
could be made that emergency funding would be required in the continuing
resolution (an emergency-only document).  Of course, you might then ask 
why this emergency was not addressed earlier.

What I would like to point out here is that there is more to this than 
just partisan politics.  There is a very real struggle over the direction
that the coutry is going.  The GOP wants smaller government and a balanced
budget in seven years.  They are committed to those goals, and they consider
the budget deficit to be a critical, life-or-death problem.  A plain 
continuing resolution does not fit those goals at all: if they don't get 
started, the budget will not be balanced on time (if ever).  This will 
weaken the resolve to balance the budget before the 1996 elections.  Then
the GOP may fail to keep a majority in Congress and President Clinton may
be re-elected.  Many of these budget cuts may never happen, the budget will
never be balanced, and we may never again find the politicians with enough 
resolve to ever fix the problem.  We will go broke.

Remember how quickly Gramm-Rudman fell apart.

| <<< Note 96.289 by WMOIS::GIROUARD_C >>>

| WEHT Joe Palooka?

	Is he realted to Joe Bazooka?

    
    	Oh, Joe Bazooka ... I had a couple bass tubes made by his brother,
    	SAS.
    

re: .288 (Mark)

Gee, I thought Dick was talking about Clinton giving the republicans
a hard time, and you were talking about how you liked the white house
getting hammered by the press for mentioning how the republicans were
creating riders et al.

This is the scenario I was commenting on.  Did I miss something?

I'm sure I didn't hear you say, "Yeah, stupid republicans can't pass
anything any better than the stupid democrats did."

Sorry if I messed it up.
\john

re: .291 (Kevin)

I'm sorry, Kevin, I still don't buy it.

There ARE thousands dying of sickness and hunger, in this country,
every year.  Many could, in fact, be helped by throwing huge googobs
of money at the problem.  Some would trickle down through the
bureaucracy and actually help.  This does not make it a good idea.

While you may not think so, it IS partisan politics.  I think you're
looking through rose-colered glasses when you try to claim that YOUR
party is finally taking us the CORRECT direction.  And in 8 years,
when the debt ceiling is 12Trillion dollars and the budget still isn't
balanced, all you're going to do is blame the democrats for getting
in the way.  Don't you see, Kevin?  It's EXACTLY THE SAME.  There's
no real plan to balance the budget.  If the democrats had said 13
years the republicans would have said 10.  Why?  Partisan politics.

The budget needs to be balanced THIS YEAR.  NOW.  The government
needs to furlough extraneous parts NOW.  No extensions.  No
emergencies.  The republicans are giving the "smaller government"
movement a very bad name.

\john

>I'm sure I didn't hear you say, "Yeah, stupid republicans can't pass
>anything any better than the stupid democrats did."
    
     Well, why would I want to say that when it's not true? :-)
    
     While I remain philosophically opposed to ANY use of attachments to
    coattail unrelated legislation to "must sign" legislation, I take a
    small amount of pleasure in seeing the democrats squeal about their own
    methods being used against them now that the tables have been turned.
    That I happen to support some of the attached bills in question
    probably makes this easier to swallow (see the Ishtook amendment for
    example- and it's not entirely unrelated besides.)

 >   > Not quite. the repubs (Newt actually) said...
    
     He said this early after the '94 elections  

 >  Dob Dole said "We will not give an inch."  When pressed, he said that
 >  the 7-year budget balancing act was imperative and would not be
 >  compromised. 

  I hadn't heard this, but assume he said it recently. I'm glad he is standing
  firm.

 >   Not even, it has turned out, to the point of considering
 >  that Slick's 10-year proposal actually was vastly more reasonable.
      
  Another matter of opinion that just doesn't wash. Clinton has never assembled
  a plan that would balance the budget, ever. Look, Clinton made a big stink
  over Bush not using the more reasonable and more accurate CBO numbers
  in budgeting and then, when  these numbers weren't convenient, he chose
  another source to substantiate his 'claims' of a balance in 10 years.

  Well, the repubs have used his yardstick, and played by his rules, and
  put together a plan, and then Clinton changes the rules. BTW: Under Clintons
  budget rules, the repubs would balance the budget in less than 6 years.
  So either way, the repubs got him beat on this issue.

  Doug.

   > you might not see it as a problem, but foreign investors could. 
   > suddenly the cost of money could go up big time, raising the
   > service payments on the debt and causing a much bigger deficit
   > to have to dig our way out of.  anybody who relishes the prospect
   > of clinton being stubborn enough to send the country in default
   > is cutting off their nose to spite their face. 

    Does Clinton want to be known as the president that pushed up the
    debt/deficit?  I doubt it. In the end, it's easier to remove one
    man at the top for failure than several hundred in the middle.

    He'll cave like a house of cards within a week of the government 
    shutdown.

    Doug.

    >> >> Clinton has refused to respond to the multitude of invitations...
    
    >> ...to agree with whatever the Republican-controlled Congress proposed.
    
    ...the same Republican-controlled Congress that the people of the U.S.
    put into power a year ago precisely because they were so dissatisfied
    with the "results" of the Democratic reign for so many decades.  Does
    the will of the people mean nothing to Clinton?  He can choose to hold
    his breath 'till he turns grayish-blue, but the fact remains that as
    of a year ago, the American people are far more interested in what
    the Republican-controlled Congress wants than in what he wants.
    
    Chris

    .299
    
    The people did not elect a Repub-controlled Congress so that said
    Repubs could impose their will on the minority.  They elected a Repub-
    controlled Congress so that said Repubs could fix things.  Cutting off
    the nation's nose to spite its face is not fixing anything.

              <<< Note 96.295 by ALPHAZ::HARNEY "John A Harney" >>>

> There ARE thousands dying of sickness and hunger, in this country,
> every year.  Many could, in fact, be helped by throwing huge googobs
> of money at the problem.  Some would trickle down through the
> bureaucracy and actually help.  This does not make it a good idea.

John, you're missing the point.  I have never, even once, heard people 
adding spending for some new program to a continuing resolution and 
calling it an "emergency".  A continuing resolution is only to be used in
an emergency.  The situation that you described above cannot be justified 
because the situation existed before the resolution.  A natural disaster
would be different.  


RE: Blaming the Democrats

I'm not blaming the Democrats.  I'm not a great fan of Republican plan,
but I do support their plan as the best effort on the table.


> There's no real plan to balance the budget.  If the democrats had said 13
> years the republicans would have said 10.  Why?  Partisan politics.

Not historically accurate.  The GOP went first and put their stake in the 
ground.  The White House refused to put forward a plan that balanced the 
budget by **ANY** date.  The White House then met with House and Senate 
Democrats to rally support for the "no plan" plan, and the Senators and 
Congressmen refused to go along.  A few days later, the White House anounced 
its ten-year plan.


> The budget needs to be balanced THIS YEAR.  NOW.  The government
> needs to furlough extraneous parts NOW.  No extensions.  No
> emergencies.  The republicans are giving the "smaller government"
> movement a very bad name.

You can't balance it very well in one year because it will take several
years to shutdown buildings and finish up contracts for projects that are
the best candidates to be cancelled.  If you balance the budget quickly 
by only focusing on projects and departments that can be killed quickly,
then you will probably destroy the fairly good programs and keep the 
things that don't matter.

Also, if you lay off that many people all at once, the unemployment 
benefits you pay and the political fallout will be huge.

       <<< Note 96.300 by SMURF::BINDER "Eis qui nos doment uescimur." >>>
    
>    The people did not elect a Repub-controlled Congress so that said
>    Repubs could impose their will on the minority.  They elected a Repub-
>    controlled Congress so that said Repubs could fix things.  

    	Far too often the will of the minority is what's breaking things.

    Joe,
    
    Jopining the Tebedo party are you?
    
    

    	Boy, Meg, you have a one-track mind.
    
    	Special interests with respect to government budgets is not
    	the same thing as special rights.  LEt's not rathole this topic
    	into another gay discussion.
    
    	FYI, Meg, I had things like the various corporate welfare 
    	programs in mind.

    You mean like the grzing, logging and mining subsidies the to
    REPUBLICAN senators from colorado are supporting?
    
    meg

	Joe, not much chance of this turning into a gay topic if you're talking
about special rights. 

    	Yes, among other things, Meg.

    
    | He'll cave like a house of cards within a week of the government
    | shutdown.
    
    i thought so a week ago, but with the white house gloating over
    the polls, they have the potential to do something profoundly 
    stupid.  
    
    

re: Kevin

I suppose we'll have to settle with "agreeing to disagree."

I think you're so close to the trees all you can see is the grain
of the bark.  Why are we talking about "emergencies" and "takes a
year to close the buildings" when we're TRILLIONS IN DEBT and
going deeper behind this republican congress?  Out here we see
the forest.  So it takes 15 months instead of a year.  Big deal.
They're forgiven.

You mark my words.  In 7 years we won't be ANY closer to a balanced
budget, and you, personally, will blame the White House and the
remaining democrats.  This ain't rocket science, it's partisan politics!

If the unexpected happens and we have a republican president in '96,
we WILL see prayers in school, anti-flag-buring legislation, gay-bans,
and other utterly impotent, worthless things, but we won't have a
balanced budget.  The only thing we REALLY need them to do.

I agree we're charting a different course with this congress, but it's
just the right fork of the road to "hell in a handbasket" instead of
the left fork.  Big deal.

\john

              <<< Note 96.309 by ALPHAZ::HARNEY "John A Harney" >>>

>You mark my words.  In 7 years we won't be ANY closer to a balanced
    
    	I truly hope that you are wrong, but I can see this possibility
    	as well.  I think it is more likely under the old congress than
    	the new, but I've seen this new congress blink too many times
    	while trying to stare down the problem.  
    
    	I'm ready to give them some more time, but not an indefinite
    	amount.  Actually, if they fail in the near future, I think
    	that the ensuing financial collapse will fix things, though
    	in a terribly painful way.
    
    	And I really hope that if they DO present and pass a plan to
    	have a balanced budget by year-x (and assuming they really WILL
    	stick to it) I hope that that is not the end of it, for we will
    	STILL BE BURDENED WITH THE CURRENT DEBT PLUS WHAT ACCUMULATES
    	IN THE X-MANY YEARS IT TAKES TO REACH THAT BALANCE.  That must
    	be paid off somehow too.

    re: Note 96.285 by STAR::OKELLEY
    
    } One way that they can keep it
    } funded is to have government by continuing resolution: we just keep
    
    
    Kinda like the perpetual "state of emergency".  If it were ever ended
    about 75% of the federal government would disappear.

              <<< Note 96.309 by ALPHAZ::HARNEY "John A Harney" >>>
                      -< Lord knows, I hope I'm wrong... >-

> I think you're so close to the trees all you can see is the grain
> of the bark.  Why are we talking about "emergencies" and "takes a
> year to close the buildings" when we're TRILLIONS IN DEBT and
> going deeper behind this republican congress?  Out here we see
> the forest.  So it takes 15 months instead of a year.  Big deal.
> They're forgiven.

The Federal Government has contracts that go years into the future.
Furthermore, as I said before, laying off that many people within a year
or two is not practical:

    1.	The rapid increase in unemployment benefits would add to the debt.
    2.	The increase in the unemployment rate and the drop in GNP growth
	would create a political climate where the Democrats would regain
	control of Congress for decades.  I believe that under those
	circumstances, the Democrats first job would be a "stimulus package"
	("deficit spending") to "get this economy moving again."
    3.	The political will to address the problem would be broken.  Any 
	politicians in the future who even consider attacking the budget 
	problems would immediately consider what happened to the GOP and
	chicken out.


Yes, we are trillions in debt.  However, the rate of growth in the deficit
-- as a percentage of GNP or a percentage of the budget -- has been going 
down ever since the S&L bailout borrowing was financed.  This is the best
chance we have.


> You mark my words.  In 7 years we won't be ANY closer to a balanced
> budget, and you, personally, will blame the White House and the
> remaining democrats.  This ain't rocket science, it's partisan politics!

There is no basis for any of this.  If you crystal ball is that good, 
perhaps you could provide me with a list of the top ten fastest growing
stocks in 1996.  ;^)


> If the unexpected happens and we have a republican president in '96,
> we WILL see prayers in school, anti-flag-buring legislation, gay-bans,
> and other utterly impotent, worthless things, but we won't have a
> balanced budget.  The only thing we REALLY need them to do.

Certainly the GOP is on record as supporting a balanced budget, they pushed 
for a plan to do it and set a deadline, they are taking a trmendous amount 
of political heat for it, and they expect to be measured on that basis.


> I agree we're charting a different course with this congress, but it's
> just the right fork of the road to "hell in a handbasket" instead of
> the left fork.  Big deal.

I don't agree.  They forced the White House to come up with a plan, and
they are pushing their own plan which does the job faster.  The difference
has nothing to do with a fork in the road; it is more like a car headed 
toward the Grand Canyon.  The White House says, "Don't worry.  We're 
slowing down, and we should be stopped in time."  The GOP is trying to 
slow down at a much faster rate.  Maybe the White House is right; maybe
there is sufficient time.  And maybe the White House really intends to 
stop.  And maybe they are just lying to us (again).

RE: 96.312 by STAR::OKELLEY "Kevin O'Kelley, OpenVMS DCE Security"

> Certainly the GOP is on record as supporting a balanced budget, they pushed 
> for a plan to do it and set a deadline, they are taking a trmendous amount 
> of political heat for it, and they expect to be measured on that basis.

The Republicans are not serious about balancing the budget. They can't even
pass any budget,  much less a balanced one.  They are serious about holding
Whitewater hearings,  Vince Foster's death,  Ruby Ridge and a bunch of
Radical Right junk,  but at the rate they are doing the 1996 budget they 
will not be done until sometime in 1997.


Phil

re: .312 (Kevin)
>There is no basis for any of this.  If you crystal ball is that good, 
>perhaps you could provide me with a list of the top ten fastest growing
>stocks in 1996.  ;^)

Oh, Kevin, COME ON.  I've been alive and watching these two parties
play this game for 34 years, AND I've read what you write every day.
I feel very qualified to make this prediction.  

I see the republicans going on and on about "slowing down at a much
faster rate" and there's NOT EVEN A BUDGET YET.  Just who are you
trying to kid?  It's a whitewash job, and not a good one.  The only
people who seem to be buying it are the die-hard republicans.  I
can't imagine them thinking so uncritically, so I'm forced to assume
it's being "bought" intentionally, with the simple hope of electing
more republicans.  What a sad, sad legacy.

>I don't agree.  They forced the White House to come up with a plan, and
>they are pushing their own plan which does the job faster.  The difference
>has nothing to do with a fork in the road; it is more like a car headed 
>toward the Grand Canyon.  The White House says, "Don't worry.  We're 
>slowing down, and we should be stopped in time."  The GOP is trying to 
>slow down at a much faster rate.  Maybe the White House is right; maybe
>there is sufficient time.  And maybe the White House really intends to 
>stop.  And maybe they are just lying to us (again).

As I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree.  All I see from here
is that the republicans just want to be driving the car.  If it crashes
anyway, they'll blame the democrats.  Big deal.

If these guys were so shrewd they would have come up with something OTHER
than an $11/month Medicare increase, especially when it turned out to be
THE bone of contention.  All we see from this disgusting display is that
the republicans are EXACTLY as stubborn, EXACTLY as pigheaded, and
EXACTLY as out of touch with what we really need, as the democrats.

Which was my point all along.
\john

    
    
 |   If these guys were so shrewd they would have come up with something OTHER
 |   than an $11/month Medicare increase, especially when it turned out the be
 |   THE bone of contention.  All we see from this disgusting display is that
 |   the republicans are EXACTLY as stubborn, EXACTLY as pigheaded, and
 |   EXACTLY as out of touch with what we really need, as the democrats.
    
    
    the premimum increase is probably part of the strategy to make
    the alternative choices of medicare (i.e. managed care) more
    attractive.  no one is saying this but my guess is that is why
    they are proposing it.  also passage of this breaks precedent.
    fortress entitlements have always been the barrier to dealing
    with the deficit.  less than a year ago it was the "third rail"
    of politics.  now it is open to debate.  
    
    i don't think your representation of repubs being the same as dems
    really washes.  it used to as little as four years ago.  fortunately
    there has been a realization of the reality of the debt crisis.
    
         

re: .315

I watched C-SPAN this afternoon.

You can trust me, it still washes.

I assume I'm being mostly misunderstood.  I don't want people to elect
democrats instead of republicans.  I want the people who vote republican
to be more picky with their vote.  To demand better.  Tell the leadership
that "well the democrats did this to Bush!" is NOT an excuse for the crap
they're pulling.

Anything less means you care more about the party than what happens to us.

On a slightly brighter note, the republicans have POTENTIAL.  A few tight
races (because of their inept handling of this), large numbers of long-time
republicans telling the leadership to get on the ball, a few more hungry
freshmen congressmen in '96.  Make Newt aware that "scoring points" doesn't
count near as much as cleaning up this damned mess, and sometimes we have
to take one step back to take two steps forward.

Sadly, I don't see this happening.  Our "lesser of two evils" champions
will see to it that no real choices are ever had; that all they have to
do is appeal to "anybody but <democrat>" voters and that'll do.  That's
not a vision.  That's not a mandate.  It's partisan politics.  As usual.

\john

    
    	I hear that Clinton is vetoing over some environmental issues also?
    Anyone else read this???
    
    
    jim

    I'm with \john on this deal.  I am mad at the repubs, but I didn't
    expect them to be any different.  SSDD.  The only problem is the 
    expectations for the repubs was so huge, the voter backlash will
    be BAD.
    
    I say vote your conscience.  I'd vote for a 3rd party (not perot).
    I don't buy that "throwing away your vote" BS.  I won't be held
    hostage to either party.  Someday, maybe a repub will win in a 
    squeeker with the 3rd party guy eating a lot of the vote up and the
    fog will lift and the repub will say "geewiz... I better straighten
    up or the libs will be a factor next time".  Then again, maybe not...
    
    I won't vote for Dole, and there's NFW I'd pull the "d" lever.
    
    Madmike

    Something about defunding the clean water act?
    
    Also, I understand meat inpections will take a hit.
    
    There is also a rider, (don't know if it made it through) to pay
    farmers more money for idle land if the wetlands they have on it are
    DRAINED.  (As a bird lover and occaisional duck hunter I find this less
    than distastful)
    
    meg

      <<< Note 96.313 by BOXORN::HAYS "Some things are worth dying for" >>>
           -< They are not a quarter done,  even without a veto... >-

> The Republicans are not serious about balancing the budget. They can't even
> pass any budget,  much less a balanced one.  They are serious about holding
> Whitewater hearings,  Vince Foster's death,  Ruby Ridge and a bunch of
> Radical Right junk,  but at the rate they are doing the 1996 budget they 
> will not be done until sometime in 1997.

If the GOP isn't serious about balancing the budget, then why are all the
left-wing liberal tax lice fighting for dear life?

My statement still stands.  The GOP is taking asking to be measured on 
whether or not they deliver a balanced budget, and they are going to be 
taking a huge amount of heat in making the necessary cuts.

Now, I agree that it is taking a long time to pass the appropriations bills.
However, the magnitude of the task is huge.  The GOP is trying to set 
priorities on a budget that is $1.4 trillion dollars.  The last budget I saw
in hardcopy was about five inches thick!  The easiest budget is to take last
year's budget, make a few changes, and go.  It is more difficult when you
poor over every line.

              <<< Note 96.314 by ALPHAZ::HARNEY "John A Harney" >>>
                        -< Demand MORE for your vote!! >-

> Oh, Kevin, COME ON.  I've been alive and watching these two parties
> play this game for 34 years, AND I've read what you write every day.
> I feel very qualified to make this prediction.  

Times have changed.  The GOP is asking to be measured on their ability
to balance the budget.  They are getting large groups of voters very angry
with their plan.  They hope that the final result will be worth it.

You know, I see a lot of excessive verbage -- from many people -- about 
how the GOP doesn't mean it.  First of all, I'm sceptical too.  There are
a lot of things that can go wrong with this.  The easiest to see is that 
certain groups are going to go to the polls in 96 and wipe the GOP off the
map.  The first thing the Democrats are going to do when they get back
into power is payoff their allies with your grandchildren's money.
Secondly, if the GOP really doesn't mean business, then the Democrats 
should relax.  If the GOP doesn't deliver, they will have so many special
interest groups out to get them and so many disappointed voters that they
are going to be gone for a long, long time.


> I see the republicans going on and on about "slowing down at a much
> faster rate" and there's NOT EVEN A BUDGET YET.  Just who are you
> trying to kid?  It's a whitewash job, and not a good one.  The only
> people who seem to be buying it are the die-hard republicans.  I
> can't imagine them thinking so uncritically, so I'm forced to assume
> it's being "bought" intentionally, with the simple hope of electing
> more republicans.  What a sad, sad legacy.

A total rewrite of something as large as the Federal budget will take time.
I'm not "buying it", I'm hoping that they will deliver.  I've seen the 
alternative, and it is not a solution at all.  I'm not a fan of the GOP
or their budget plan, but the Democrats are not capable of dealing with
this problem.  If the GOP can't pass a budget over time, then their ability
to lead will come into question, and they will lose in 96.


> As I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree.  All I see from here
> is that the republicans just want to be driving the car.  If it crashes
> anyway, they'll blame the democrats.  Big deal.

The GOP doesn't want to just drive, they have a specific goal in mind.


> If these guys were so shrewd they would have come up with something OTHER
> than an $11/month Medicare increase, especially when it turned out to be
> THE bone of contention.  All we see from this disgusting display is that
> the republicans are EXACTLY as stubborn, EXACTLY as pigheaded, and
> EXACTLY as out of touch with what we really need, as the democrats.

The $11/month is just the initial offer.  The counter proposals come later.
It's a negotiation, for crying out loud!

If they are stubborn and pigheaded in their pursuit of a balanced budget, 
they will be standing up for something worthwhile.  What we really need is
a way out of the deficit spending trap.  The greatest threat to our 
government is not from any other country.  The greatest threat is that we
have spent ourselves into bankruptcy.  It may already be too late.

    
    Re: Kevin,
    
    It's nice to see at least one person in here understands the scope
    of what the repubs are trying to do ...
    
    Now, can they deliver .... That will be the final measure.
    
    Doug.

    This puts an end to this notion that we are in the mess we are in
    because of Reagan.  Clinton has proven to the world that he is a
    spender, that he has no problem running up the deficit, and that he is
    an obstructionist.
    
    -Jack

re: .323 (Jack)

>    This puts an end to this notion that we are in the mess we are in
>    because of Reagan. 

What does?

\john

    Why...the fact the Clinton is showing his true colors...that he is an
    obstructionist and that he doesn't care about the deficit...what else?

	And if he didn't stand up for what he believes in, he would be
spineless. The guy can't win in your book, Jack. 



Glen

    He always stands up for what he believes in, it's just that what he
    believes in is a moving target, and seems to be tied to the latest poll
    results.

    
    	Lucky for us he's the only president to ever make decisions based
    	on anticipated poll results, eh?
    

    Glen:
    
    He's spineless because he stated in his candidacy that he would have a
    balanced budget in three years or some such.  Obviously he had no
    intentions of this.  
    
    Glen, I have more respect for Dukakis, McGovern, and company.  At least
    you knew where you stood with those guys.
    
    -Jack

re: .323, 325


>    Why...the fact the Clinton is showing his true colors...that he is an
>    obstructionist and that he doesn't care about the deficit...what else?

Jack, you're all wet.  Clinton, today, tells us NOTHING about Reagan,
in the '80s.  That you seem to THINK they're related tells us nothing
about Clinton OR Reagan, but it speaks volumes about you.

Nobody, but nobody, is saying Clinton is a good choice.  What IS being
said is that Dole's being a tad bit better doesn't make HIM a good
choice, either.  And whether you want to admit it or not, the "tad bit"
part is very much up in the air.

\john

	Jack, this is his 3rd year. A budget has to be in place by December
15th. If it comes up balanced, then he has kept his promise. Also, not wanting
a balanced budget that the repubs want is not the same as saying he does not
want a balanced budget. 



Glen

>	Jack, this is his 3rd year. A budget has to be in place by December
>15th. If it comes up balanced, then he has kept his promise. 
    
     Which one? :-)
    
>Also, not wanting
>a balanced budget that the repubs want is not the same as saying he does not
>want a balanced budget. 
    
     Which would be a valid argument if he wanted a balanced budget that
    reflected his priorities. But the counter-proposal that was dragged
    from him, kicking and screaming failed to balance the budget even in 10
    years, and left all of the hard cuts for the last years (after he would
    have left office.) This makes Bush's "smoke and mirrors" seem like
    child's play.
    
     Clinton does not stand for a balanced budget. He talks the talk, but
    when it's time to put up he slinks away quietly and hopes everyone
    forgot that he ever mentioned it. Then he opposes others' attempts to
    do what he said he would do. And his counter proposal doesn't do what
    he says it does, but he tries to pass it off as the genuine article.
    Ignore the rhetoric and start reading about what the proposals really
    are. Then perhaps you'll begin to understand.

 ZZ   That you seem to THINK they're related tells us nothing
 ZZ   about Clinton OR Reagan, but it speaks volumes about you.
    
    \John:
    
    Clinton is representative of the thought process of the congress in the
    1980's.  CONGRESS appropriated the funding and Reagan was too soft.
    
    -Jack

    Short reminder,
    
    reagan never submitted a balanced budget to congress.

    
    Which, at that time was controlled by whom???
    

	Andy, he didn't SUBMIT one. 

    re: .336
    
    
    >Andy, he didn't SUBMIT one.
    
    
    Why?????
    

	ask him

    He forgot.

    FWIW
    
    Bush never submitted a balanced budget either.

Reagan/Bush may not have submitted balanced budgets, but they did submit budgets.
Clinton has submitted little more than a plan on the type of budget he wants.
These aren't the same thing.

Reagan submitted budgets with spending priorities which were to help avoid the
problems we have today. The Dems continued spending in the same fashion they
always did, ignoring the warning signs.

So here we are ....

Doug.

err...Doug, the spending priorities CAUSED the problems we have today.

    re: .338
    
    >ask him
    
     I asked you! Answer the question (obviously you can't)! You will go
    into your usual "deflection" mode...
     

re: .333 (JackM)

>    Clinton is representative of the thought process of the congress in the
>    1980's.  CONGRESS appropriated the funding and Reagan was too soft.

Oh, so it WAS Reagan's fault.  I wish you'd make up your mind.
\john

> err...Doug, the spending priorities CAUSED the problems we have today.

 Isn't that what I said? But to clairify, it was the dems spending priorities
 and their failure to slow the runaway train that got us into this mess.

 The largest difference between Reagan and Dem budgets is that Reagan would
 spend more money where people would have worked for it while spending less 
 money on entitlements.

 The dems put it the other way around. The total expendeture wasn't the problem.
 It was where it was being spent that was the problem. 

 Doug.

	Andy, you really crack me up. The fact is he NEVER submitted a balanced
budget. Maybe if he attempted it, then people could say that there is a repub
that actually submitted something. It isn't up to me to know why he couldn't do
this task. It was up to Reagan. Ask him, as ONLY he can answer your question. I
can not answer for him. There is no deflection. 

    
    
    
    Standard liberal stuff, Glen.  Well Reagan and Bush didn't fo it.....
    
    
    Here's a clue, Clinton's in the White House now, he is accountable.
    
    
    Mike

| <<< Note 96.347 by GRANPA::MWANNEMACHER "RIP Amos, you will be missed" >>>


| Standard liberal stuff, Glen.  Well Reagan and Bush didn't fo it.....

	Did you use it back when you were a liberal, Mike? :-)  That wasn't the
point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that Reagan never
submitted one. Add nothing more.

| Here's a clue, Clinton's in the White House now, he is accountable.

	Of course he is accountable right now. Show me where I ever gave you
the impression otherwise.


Glen

    
    
    Because you are using the well worn out Mantra, Bush and/or Reagan
    did.........
    
    
    When I was a Democrat, I was under the false impression that government
    was the way to solve the woes of the world.  I was 18, a hippy and,
    from what I read, the dims were more compassionate than the repubs. 
    Then I learned about the mess we call government.
    
    
    Mike

    Glen:
    
    Not to mention that Clinton told us that the last twelve years were the
    worst years since Hoover!

[insert obligatory -]
    Man, I can just see Mike with hair down to his waist, in granny
    glasses, peace sign pendants hangin' from his neck, a bandana
    wrapped around his forehead ...

    
    
    Bad scene man, baaaadddddd scene......

Jack, are you having a flashback?  I told you not to drop that acid.

    >Jack, are you having a flashback?  I told you not to drop that acid.
     
     Yeah, it's a real drag to pick back up.

| <<< Note 96.350 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

| Not to mention that Clinton told us that the last twelve years were the
| worst years since Hoover!

	What's Dan K got to do with this?

    	And the next president (and the next and the next) will be saddled
    	with the burden of ownership of the country's problems.  throwing
    	up one's hands (eeeuuuww) and saying "It was the LAST guy's fault"
    	just doesn't cut it.

    Woncder how much damage the S&L bailout did to the deficit?

    
    
    The bailout should never have happened.  People wanted the higher rates
    and chose institutions not federally insured.  They took the risk, they
    should have taken the loss.  (and yes, I had some money in one such
    institution at the time, actually it was insured by the state).
    
    
    Mike
    

    
    Whatever happened to...
    
    Covvybaby?
    
    HBAHBA::HAAS?
    
    Rob Cashmon?
    
    Where's Brandon?
    
    Nancy Morales?
    
    DJ?
    
    Coffeeman Butler?
    
    Speak up, my loves.
    
    

    Yeah and where is Mr. Topaz?

    According to my dictionary, He's underground in South America.
    

    Hello! Coffeeman Butler is back.
    
    I was out most of last week due to a death in the family and the week
    before that I was on vacation.
    
    Don

    Don:
    
    I hope all is well with the family member's family.  Good to see you
    back and we look forward to your usual tirades!
    
    -Jack

    I found out Rob Cashmon has also been gone a few months not to return.
    He was using my account and had sent mail with his DTN on the top.
    I called security at NQO and they said he was gone.  
    
    Goodbye Rob...wherever you are!!!

In case anybody's wondering what happened to Suzanne Conlon, she's taking on
the boyz in mennotes.

    
    	Oooh errr.
    

    why would she bother with a bunch of whiners?

    
    	And if that's all she wanted, why'd she leave the 'BOX?
    

Hey, take it to topic 43.

    
    re: Conlon
    
    Great!! At least it keeps her out of our hair for awhile...
    

    
    Andy...
    
    Such folks are the grist which makes the box interesting. If
    everyone thought as clearly as us, what fun would it be? :-) :-)
    
    -b

    
    
    -b...
    
     I never have a problem with that... ;) I think that's obvious...
    
    What I do tend to have a problem with is the people with "Fonzie
    Syndrome"...
    

    
    Dick Curtis?
    Pvt Parts?
    
    Am I missing anyone else.

    
>    Am I missing anyone else.

	i can't speak for you, but i am missing !joan.

    
    	Dick Curtis popped into 1 of the conferences I read, within the
    	last week or so.
    
    	Probably not this one.
    

	It would probably surprise you to learn that he pronounces
	his name "Cure-tice".  I know it would me.

re .375:

It was this one.

    
    	Yes, it would surprise me, but it wouldn't phase me.  I'd still
    	pronounce it "Curtis".
    

  .378  yes, well, being discourteous is your God-given right, i
	suppose. ;>

    Shawn diss-curtis?
    

 .380  i swear to God - i _knew_ you were going to say that. 

    She has the 'fluence!

    in- af- or ef-?

!Joan is joining a group of us for lunch tomorrow.  I'll get the scoop on 
what he's been up to and report back later.....

	Chris....tell him I said hi!

    Oh just give him a big ole wet boxkiss from the gang.  A good face
    licking will do too. 

  .384  yes, please give him a smooch for me.

    Yes, please tell him I've been feeling kinda frumpy lately.

    
    
    still here.  
    still a private.
    still republican.
    still obsessed by the debt.
    still at odds with that child of alcholic at
      1600 pennsylvannia avenue that is
      fornicating our country big-time to assuage his
      dependent, sex addicted, people pandering psyche.
    
                    
    

    
    <---- good to see you, your looking rather fit.... now tell Aristotle
    to pipe in now and then..... :-)
    
    Mark

 .... Red stamps, Plaid stamps, S&H (Sperry&Hutchinson) Green stamps?

Trading stamps just seemed to evaporate sometime in the 70s. Why, I don't
know.

Well, I guess there are still Rahleigh coupons, and I know that there are
Betty Crocker redemption points ...

 I believe there are still some trading stamps around..reading your
 note took me back to years ago when an employer and I were feverishly
 collecting Blue Chip stamps so we could get a new water ski.  We did
 it though.




 Jim

I got some trading stamps somewhere in the past couple of years.  Let's see...
it might have been some supermarket in the Catskills.  I had to explain what
they were to some teenagers I was with.

We got some genuine S&H Greenstamps at some supermarket in Gettysburg, Pa,
last year.

    where the heck is the wonderful colin walters??

    > collecting Blue Chip stamps so we could get a new water ski.
    
    we did the same thing in Iowa for S&H. I remember the trips to the
    premium store were about the same as going to see Santa.

When I was a kid, my dad used to accumulate trading stamps from the 
grocery stores for about six months at a time and then he'd have me sit
down and stick them all into the books. Then I found out about sponges.

-Jack Handey

    .395
    
    > where the heck is the wonderful colin walters??
    
    Colin has been out of the country, dealing with an emergency.  I
    suggest you be kind to him - I would seriously not like to have gone
    through what he's been handling.

>... Then I found out about sponges.

You can still buy sponges, at least round these parts

    > You can still buy sponges, at least round these parts
    
    ask Shawn about these, I think he preferred scrubbies to sponges?

    
    	Preferred?  Don't go misquoting me, now.
    
    	I asked if they were similar.
    

    
    I thought those Sponges had been pulled from the market.
    
    Did I imagine this?
    

    >         I asked if they were similar.
    
    are they?

    
    	RE: Deb
    
    	You might be thinking of Seinfeld.
    
    
    	RE: Bob
    
    	Well, if I knew the answer, why would I ask the question?
    

>    > collecting Blue Chip stamps so we could get a new water ski.
    
>    we did the same thing in Iowa for S&H. I remember the trips to the
>    premium store were about the same as going to see Santa.


  Yep..and we'd drive for miles looking for stores that gave double
  stamps..



 Jim

I remember my mon got my first baseball glove (little league and I still have it)
with S&H Green Stamps.

    .398
    
    |Colin has been out of the country, dealing with an emergency.  I
    |suggest you be kind to him
    
    dick, just a little nit.  what on earth would make you assume
    that i would be anything other than kind to him?  i think you
    have a lot of daddy in you, you know? 

  .407  i were a-thinkin' that too, Oph baby.

    
    	That could have been a generic "you", not a specific "you",
    	Bonnie.
    

    .407
    
    Yeah, it was a generic "you."
    
    I was hoping to forestall an unknowingly callous remark that might
    strike pretty hard.  I like and respect Colin, and I know he's a bit
    tender at the moment.  If you don't accept that, put it where the sun
    don't shine.
    
    Besides, I don't even *know* your daddy.

   he's kinda like the Frugal Gourmet, at times.
   preachy-teachy-fatherly.  yep.  and he can cook, too.

    Oh, please don't be kind to me.  I got a merciless ragging at the wake
    for having a trace of an American accent.  It was great.

    
    Um...Seinfeld?
    
    

    
    	Yeah, it's a comedy show that airs on Thursday nights on NBC.
    

 ...and weeknights in syndication.





 Jim

    .410
    
    my daddy's dead.
    
    oh, and by the way, follow your own advice about putting
    it where the sun don't shine, but first i suggest you 
    get your head out of the way.

    .416
    
    Speaking of an unknowingly callous remark...  My apologies.

    .417
    
    accepted.

    
    rough crowd lately, like sharks at feeding time.

    <--  Hey! What did I tell you about that.
    

... those b'hai guys, Seals & Crofts? I thought they were pretty good

    They flew away on a Hummingbird!

    and a Diamond Girl..
    

    And before they left, they were building castles in the sand.

    
    as a gentle summer breeze wafted through the air.

and one kept asking the other, if you want me to get closer to you, get closer
to me......

    they were kind-a smarmy, wot?

    
    Dr. Dan, the beanie man

 Mr. L. Box

    If you miss Lunchbox, raise your hand.

 I just wondered what happened to him.

    He'll be back, I'm sure.

	He makes brief apperences in the internet notesfile.

    
    vaid, manjit  australian accented Canadien.

    
    <--- english, sorry
    

    I never really went away, I'm like Frosty the Snowman when he was
    melted, but you see, he was made of Chrismas snow, and Christmas snow
    is special...]
    
    
    
    					lunchbox
    

re .435
eh?

	Lunchbox, all this talk of special snow..... I think they have some on
the city streets!

    re:  Dr. Dan-
    
    Seems to be fine!  He was sighted at the MSO site one day last week,
    sans beanie.

   What is Patty Hearst doing today, and what became of the rest of the
   SLA?

    
    	Patty Hearst is somewhat of an actress:
    
    	"Cry Baby"
    	"Serial Mom"
    

	She's been in a few other John Water's films as well. :-)

	I miss Martin.

    Patty Hearst says she is happy to see Flea Bailey in prison.
    (He was her lawyer and she charged him with incompetence in
    her appeal.)

    Didn't most of the SLA get "ventilated" by the LAPD way back when...

    Ventilated and barbecued, I believe.

    Whatever happened to the guys in Iron Butterfly?
    
    happened to overhear Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida (it woke me up this morning on
    the radio) -- are there any surviving members, or did the band
    disappear in a puff of "smoke"?

    -1
    
    see http://t-e-i.com/classicrockallstars.html for one of them.
    

    Steve Winwood's brother who was in The Spencer Davis Group with him?
    
    Bob

Truth or fiction?

The original title/lyrics were supposed to be "In the Garden of Eden", but
the guys in Iron Butterfly showed up drunk/stoned for rehearsal, and it
came out as "Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida" and they decided to keep it.

    
    	I did hear that also.
    
    	The words sort of fit, so I believe it.
    
    	However, it's odd that the rest of the song is intelligible,
    	isn't it?
    

    <<< Note 96.450 by ROWLET::AINSLEY "DCU Board of Directors Candidate" >>>

>    Steve Winwood's brother who was in The Spencer Davis Group with him?
    
>    Bob

     Are you referring to the rather amusingly monickered "Muff" Winwood?
     If so, he went into production and think he involved with a label
     now.


     Stuart

    re: .454
    
    Yep, that's him.  Thanks for the update.
    
    Bob

FYI, Friday evening at "Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat" (or
whatever) we sat next to PeeWee Dukakis and Kitty. Don't know what
he's doing, but he's still alive and local to Boston, if anyone cares.

    My condolences.

    Sorry to hear about that Annie.  I hope everything turns out okay for
    you.
    
    -Jack

    
    jack, if you are referring to .457, that wasn't annie...
    
    

    uhhh....sorry

WHT

 Karen Ann Quinlan?

Someone mentioend to me that she had recovered from her coma.   
Is this correct?  What's the gen?


\C

An AltaVista search for "Karen Ann Quinlan" returns as its first result

	http://www.lcl.cmu.edu/CAAE/80130/part3/Quinlan.html

in which we learn that she died in June 1985.

/john

    So I guess if we were to read Lyons' account in _Harper's_ he'd say
    that Mz Quinlan is no longer in a coma and is hence fully recovered.

    It looks as if we can pretty much guarantee that Ms Quinlan is no
    longer in a coma, at least.

   Ron Warrenfeltz (or whatever his most recent nom de plume (sp) was)?






 Jim

    Who cares buddy?

  I do, not that it means anything to you, pal.




 Jim

      ::::::::   :::::::: 
    :+:    :+: :+:    :+: 
   +:+        +:+    +:+  
  +#++:++#+   +#++:++#+   
 +#+    +#+        +#+    
#+#    #+# #+#    #+#     
########   ########       
                          
      ::::::::  ::::    :::     :::     :::::::::  :::::::::: 
    :+:    :+: :+:+:   :+:   :+: :+:   :+:    :+: :+:         
   +:+        :+:+:+  +:+  +:+   +:+  +:+    +:+ +:+          
   +#++:++#  +#+ +:+ +#+ +#++:++#++: +#++:++#:  :#::+::#      
        +#+ +#+  +#+#+# +#+     +#+ +#+    +#+ +#+            
#+#    #+# #+#   #+#+# #+#     #+# #+#    #+# #+#             
########  ###    #### ###     ### ###    ### ###              
                                                              

    
    	Ron was ::HALLR
    
    	But I haven't heard from him in awhile.
    

 That's right...he used to be on AOL..I'll have to check tonight and see if
 he's still there.



 Jim

    You do that big guy.

    
    whatever happened to DougO???? Did he ever make it out of Chicago.

    I was in Chicago for the week following the July 4th long weekend,
    7/7-7/12.  It was a lovely week, temps in the mid70s to low 80s, nice
    and breezy out on Navy pier- in between booth duty and attending some
    of the sessions I spent quite some time in that lovely beer garden
    watching the boats go by on Lake Michigan.  I went to a brewpub one
    night (Rockbotttom, I think it was called), the Clark Street Ale House
    another night, caught some live music, and enjoyed myself.  Where were
    you?
    
    Following that, I had two weeks vacation- took Stacey and Erik to New
    Mexico and Colorado.  Erik found the National Atomic Museum thrilling,
    better than the Rattlesnake Museum.  
    
    I've been back at work since Monday.  
    
    DougO

    
    <----- glad you had a good time in our fair city. the vacation sounded
    nice as well.

Richard Higgins

    i know someone has...
    
    

 Well, there you go then!

Channel 7 News = Tabloid News

    If I remember correctly, Tom Ellis appears briefly as a newscaster in
    the movie MARATHON MAN.  I believe it's right after Hoffman comes in
    from jogging and the news is reporting the firery crash of the
    automobile and oil truck.
     

  Wasn't it Tom Ellis who was a circus ringmaster prior to news ?

  bb

    > Was "Scrapple" ever sold in markets like "Spam".    
    
    
    It sure is.  In PA it is everywhere.  I've actually found a couple of
    places in MA that carry it.  Shop N' Save in Lunenburg has it.
    
    Wonderful stuff.
    
    If you have 3 days and a pig, I've got a recipie if you want to make
    it.
    
    --geoff

Whatever happened to Dick Binder?  I know he sometimes takes a break from
Soapbox, but he's not in the Mac notesfile either.

 gulp

  well, then, he must have finally seen the light and switched to an
 Intel box running Windows 95...

  bb

I believe the term, "Over his dead body" would be appropriate here.

I fear that goons from Microsquish may have caught up to him.

    
    no. Dick has found the one true religion, finally. He has embraced
    Windows and related products to his bosom. Rumor has it that he is
    actively seeking employment with Microsoft. He also has written 
    articles lambasting the Mac as a "real computer" Personally, I think
    it's about time. I just can't believe it took him so long to see the
    light.

    -1 It must be snowing in hell.

    
    april, our little ray of sunshine from Texas?

    It's raining like a bastard in Texas, isn't it?

    
    	Beverly, also.
    

    <-- Please don't go there.
    
    
    
    Mike
    

    I was gettin' learned on CorelDraw.

    
    well, good for you!! I missed you.

    8)

    Idi Amin?  

    
    <---- tiger ate him.

See http://bsd.mojones.com/mother_jones/MJ96/wallis.html

    I'm not going to look in case it says that the bugger is living
    in the south of France.  I'd much rather imagine that he was killed
    by the tiger, a very slow tiger with very blunt claws.

He's living in Saudi Arabia.

    I hope he's dying for a beer then.

    Ha! Privileged people in Saudi Arabia do whatever they want.

    Yes, but not IN Saudi Arabia.  The fly to London and put up in
    swank apartments in the Notting Hill-Lancaster Gate area, just across
    from Hyde Park.  There they screw, get pissed and gamble the night
    away if they are men, and shop, shop or shop if they are women.
    
    On the upside, some great middle eastern eateries have opened in that
    chome. 

    
    idi amin probably craves for an Old Style or MGD.

    Miller Genocide Draft?

Mookie Wilson

Mookie Wilson's real name is William.  He's a coach for the Mets.

 WEHT The Leave it to Beaver movie?

    
    	I'm not sure, Jim ... do you remember where you were when you lost
    	it?
    

We saw a preview for it before we suffered through Lost World...

    Saw a nooose clip about how movies have now become high risk ventures.
    Now a movie must pull in a third of it;s gross on the first weekend for
    a chance to break even. Also the typical ROI in just under 2%.
    Aparently Volcano lost millions.