Conference back40::soapbox

    
    A new Box era has dawned!

    it ain't a new era RAH. it'll mostly be the same ol @#%$

    
    Maybe not if they outlaw the fluff, snarfing, stream-of-conciousness
    post-modern verbiage and thumping..
    

    all they need to do RAH is make be moderator for 1 hour a week. that
    crap would be cleaned up likety split.

    Has a mod ever deleted their own note?
    
    Guess this is the wrong topic, but I can't remember where the other
    is...

	
	Hurricane Gordon is expected to hit North Carolina's coast today.

    
    
    Chesapeake Bay Bridge closed to all traffic due to high winds...
    

	Glad they changed their minds on things. When I went to bed last night
they said it looked like the hurricane would go due north, and hit New England.
This morning they said we might get a couple of showers out of it. Of course
this thing has been doing pretty weird stuff all along, so who knows....

    re: .3
    
    Outlaw snarfing?  Bite your tongue!

    
    
    Looks like we'll get some of this in Maryland.  Maybe I'll go walk out
    on the Bay Bridge and see how it goes.

> This morning they said we might get a couple of showers out of it.

Ooops. Left the dog out this AM. And I gotta date after work tonight so
I won't get home till late.

Max'll be PO'ed.

| <<< Note 14.10 by GRANPA::MWANNEMACHER >>>



| Looks like we'll get some of this in Maryland.  Maybe I'll go walk out
| on the Bay Bridge and see how it goes.


	bye mike... nice knowing ya...

    
    
    Wish I could say the same, Glen....... ;')
    
    
    Sorry trying to keep up my rep that mailroom had of me. :')  Actually
    this BP medication I am on is really screwing with me.  Not fun at all.
    
    
    Mike

    
    excellent quality phoney $100 bills available now in SF according
    to the Secret Service.
    
    they are making inquiries..

    
    lowest temps on this date since 1940.
    
    profoundly cold (well there was some frost).

| <<< Note 14.15 by CALDEC::RAH "the truth is out there." >>>


| lowest temps on this date since 1940.

	No, Mailroom wasn't around back then...

re: .15, RAH

That's what that global warming'll do to you.

    
    John Wayne Bobbitt was barred from entering Canada due to his 
    criminal record.  He was booked to peel at a Toronto strip club.
    

    I guess he just can't cut it here....

Note 14.15 by CALDEC::RAH 
    
    >>lowest temps on this date since 1940.
    
    poor baby.

    
    this won't inconvenience me too much but a lot of produce will 
    get burned. 
    
    most of which of course get trucked east to ---> you people!

    
    RE: .21
    
    You mean like those cardboard tomatoes?

    
    yeah! also that broccoli!

Note 14.21 by CALDEC::RAH 
    
    >this won't inconvenience me too much but a lot of produce will 
    >get burned. 
    
    who cares? we had a bumper crop of corn, soybeans, and sweet potatoes
    this year. best crop ever.

    
    won't help the salad eaters much though.

Gonna go home tonight and have me a big bowl o' soybeans.

    
    Repubs are floating a proposal to cut by 50% to the NEH, NEA, CPB.
    
    Some are also calling for Head Start cuts. Other Repubs aren't so
    sure.

    repubs also calling for big cuts in NEAs. good. my taxes going for
    a guy with aids spilling his blood through self imposed knife cuts
    labeled as "art" stinks. the liberals here loved it last winter and
    called for more such "expressions of inner being and self worth". i
    effing near threw up on my morning coffee reading that. cut the budget.
    big time.

    
    -1
    
    repubs are making a serious mistake even _mentioning_ cutting something
    like head start.  with so many billions to be cut elsewhere, the dems
    will raise political cain about it and score points with the reagan
    dems who voted republican this time around, and are still wondering if
    they did the right thing.  besides, its one of the few federal programs
    that at least doesn't cause any harm; also, it has shown to be helpful,
    at least in the short term.
    
    bill

    
    donn't worry, newt is actually a rockyfeller style repub
    and will hosstrade away the funding of liberal eliteist 
    pet projects like CPB for head start.
    

    In some parts of the world Christians are still being crucified,
    quite literally so.  News agencies report that five Christians
    have been crucified since July in Sudan, one being an Anglican
    priest.  The detail is supplied that the executioners used six-
    inch-long nails.  In Wad Medani two Catholic converts have been
    sentenced by an Islamic law court to be crucified.  Anglican
    Bishop Daniel Zindo reports that widows and orphans of slain
    Christian men are sold into slavery in north Sudan and Libya for
    $15 per slave.  Such behavior does put a strain on hopes for
    better Christian-Muslim relations.

					-- "First Things", December 1994

    Oh, for the "Whacky News briefs" topic...
    
    Back-to-back on the radio:  A man has been convicted of knifing his
    girlfriend in the arm after a protracted argument over which actress of
    the sitcom "Married With Children, Christina Applegate or Katie Sagal,
    is *prettier*.  (Hint for the overseas crowd: Applegate, 21, is one of
    the hottest requests on the Internet; Sagal is a zero.)
    
    From Little Rock, AR, the group People for the Ethical Treatment of
    Animals (PETA) has staged a protest over the annual Thanksgiving
    slaughter of millions of turkeys.  When asked what he was having for
    Thanksgiving dinner, the PETA spokesman listed baked potatoes, tofu,
    and wheat gluten.  That's good eatin'!  (Author's note: As I heard this
    I was sampling a new brand of imitation cream cheese, with garlic and
    herbs, made from tofu, as a veggie dip.  As Data would say, it was
    revolting 8^)

    > As Data would say, it was revolting 8^)
    
    Yes, but did you HATE it?

    
    Cape Cod, MA...Friday night, during the horrible storm I drove home in,
    there were two fatal plane crashes.  Both are still under
    investigation, but they are assuming it was because of the weather. 
    There was also a small plane crash in Stow, MA with serious injury, but
    not life threatening, during the same storm.
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    big sinkhole opens at hyde and pacific (?) in SF.
    
    5 cars lowered gently one story beneath the street,
    a major league construction crane will be brought 
    in to lift them out.
    
    dunno what a crane costs but i would imagine that 
    it could equal the value of the cars down there.

    
    US, Brit, French, Dutch planes hit a Croatian Serb air base in
    the Krajina.
    
    Runways were disabled, but there seems to be some disagreement
    as to whether the offending Serb jets, used to conduct airstrikes 
    on Bihacs, were hit.
    
    

    
    a merchant vessel afire off MA coast, the Polly Doros, carrying
    coal from Italy.
    

It was carrying coal from Norfolk VA *to* Italy.

    
    well that makes more sense to me. 

    
    David Crosby has a new liver.

    
    The Empire State building is overrun with rodents, vandals, vagrants,
    and panhandlers.

	Is that news ??????

	What proof was his old liver???

Note 14.40 by CALDEC::RAH
    
    >>David Crosby has a new liver.
    
    funny how the rich and famous (remember gomer pyle?) seem to be able to
    get life saving organs whereas the comman man dies waiting.

Crosby's publicist said his drug abuse was the cause of his liver problems.

    Alcohol abuse seems to become "drug abuse" when it furthers the
    neoprohibtionist agenda.  
    
    

    
    did they publicist say which drugs were involved?
    
    

    
    the funding for the Black Caucus is to be removed by the new
    GOP House leadership.

Heroin and cocaine, among others.

    >the funding for the Black Caucus is to be removed by the new
    >GOP House leadership.
    
    long overdue. was a racist policy.

	Why Gene?

    
    their focus was on legislation affecting a single race.
    
    there is no "Caucasoid Caucus" concerned only with whyte people.

	Could you go into more detail? Like what did it talk about?

    I remember reading that Crosby's liver problems were attributed to
    drug use, but why mention drug abuse and not mention the alcohol?
    
    I'm sure drug usage isn't going to enhance longevity, but it's been
    common knowledge for decades what alcohol does to the liver.  Alcohol
    IS a drug, but why not acknowledge what really did his liver in?  It
    might make a few re-think that it's OK to abuse alcohol as long as
    they don't do hard drugs.
    
    

    Hard drug use has a similar effect on the liver... it's just that other
    organs, such as the heart, usually give out to cocaine and heroin
    quicker than the liver does.
    
    -b

Note 14.52 by BIGQ::SILVA
    
	>Why Gene?
    
    why should our taxes be used to fund the activities of an organization
    that operates soley for the benefit of peoples based on race? that's
    racist.

    
    Gene is correct in principle as far as the funds go - this is
    just a slush fund the Democrats set up.  Would you object if the
    Republicans set up a "Born-Again Christian Caucus", and allotted
    it a staff and a budget ?  I sure would - that's my money !!
    
      bb

>    I remember reading that Crosby's liver problems were attributed to
>    drug use, but why mention drug abuse and not mention the alcohol?

Ask his publicist.  You might also ask whose side said publicist is on.
Giving a liver transplant to someone whose liver failure is due to a
"lifestyle choice" raises some ethical issues.

    Gerald, I agree on the "lifestyle choice" making it a tad touchy
    to bump someone to the head of a transplant list :-(
    
    I'd wager Crosby now falls into that category of person who's probably
    thinking "if I had known I'd live this long, I'd have taken better
    care of myself".
    
    

    .44
    Gene:
    
    While I am no fan of either Gomer Pyle or David Crosby, your
    broadbrushing of the Transplant Crisis in America is absurd. Your lack
    of knowledge should indeed be as embarrassing as an open fly.
    
    There are a limited number of transplanted organs available at any
    given instant.  There are at least 10 times the number of people
    awaiting transplants, depending on the organ.  There are sub-categories
    in each category that is detailed down to race, sex, age, dna, etc.
    
    Just because my brother Don has been on a heart transplant list since
    1989 and hasn't been called isn't because the Crosby's and Pyles have
    taken them all.  First, he's not at the top of the list.  Second, the
    heart with characteristics that match his hasn't come up yet.
    
    Gene, you're much better off sticking to the gun control topic.  

    
    
    
    I heard last night that the average wait for this type of transplant is
    120 days.  It took Crosby two weeks to get notified.  It took another
    man (not a celebrity) 1 week to get notified of the availability.  A
    lot of it has to do with the right match, the criticality of the need
    for the organ.  My wife's aunt is awaiting a kidney transplant.  She
    has the beeper and all that, when they call, she has to fly.  They also
    said last night that a new liver usually guarantees the person at least
    1 more year.  For my wife's aunt, they say that the average lifespan
    after a kidney transplant is 12 years.  If she stayed on dialysis, the
    average would be 10 years.
    
    Mike

Terry ("There are those who call me....  Tim") Gilliam
is 54 years old today.

| <<< Note 14.57 by HAAG::HAAG "Rode hard. Put up wet." >>>


| why should our taxes be used to fund the activities of an organization that 
| operates soley for the benefit of peoples based on race? that's racist.

	What programs were the money going to?

| <<< Note 14.58 by GAAS::BRAUCHER >>>


| Gene is correct in principle as far as the funds go - this is just a slush 
| fund the Democrats set up. Would you object if the Republicans set up a "Born
| Again Christian Caucus", and allotted it a staff and a budget?  

	Tell me more about the other agency you're talking about and we can
compare it to what a Born Again Christian Caucus would be like. We might end up
agreeing that it should be taken away, but I guess it would be good to know
what the money is used for, what they actually do.


Glen

	Heard David Crosby's liver went for big bucks on the street!

    Maybe this should go in "things to wonder about"; Crosby's new liver
    will only last 1 more year?  Is this an average?  Does he get to go
    through another transplant?
    
    

    
    
    I don't think they said that the 1 year was average, but the least he
    could expect.
    
    
    Mike

    
    Boserbs and Krajina Serbs conducting overrun attacks on Bihacs
    pocket, arty is falling in the safe area, and the 1200 Banladeshi
    UN troops are cut off from supplies.
    
    

    
    The USAF pilot being charged in the shootdown of the helos
    over Iraq may not be charged if an investigators recommendation
    is followed.

    
    
    
    Charges expected to be filed in the Randall Weaver case.  Look for the
    sharpshooter who shot the wife to be charged along with the guy who
    gave the orders to fire.  
    
    Still a lot of unanswered questions like:
    
    1) why were these people under surveilance for 18 months, and
    
    2) since they were, why was the order given by the gov't to shoot
    anyone of the occupants carrying a firearm when they new that none of
    the occupants left the house without a firearm?
    

    
    Spike the lobster should get SS benefits according to PETA as
    it has reached age 65.
    
    Meanwhile, Rush L is attempting to outbid MTM and would like to
    keep it in his cigar humidor.

    
    IKEA founder Ingvar Kamprad has been linked to a Swedish Nazi-leaning
    organization.  He was allegedly involved both before and after WWII.
    
    Jewish organizations may be requesting a boycott of IKEA, pending the
    outcome of today's meeting between Kamprad and the Simon Wiesenthal
    Centre in Los Angeles.
    

Note 14.61 by USAT02::WARRENFELTZR 
    
    >While I am no fan of either Gomer Pyle or David Crosby, your
    >broadbrushing of the Transplant Crisis in America is absurd. Your lack
    >of knowledge should indeed be as embarrassing as an open fly.
    >
    >There are a limited number of transplanted organs available at any
    >given instant.  There are at least 10 times the number of people
    >awaiting transplants, depending on the organ.  There are sub-categories
    >in each category that is detailed down to race, sex, age, dna, etc.
    >
    >Just because my brother Don has been on a heart transplant list since
    >1989 and hasn't been called isn't because the Crosby's and Pyles have
    >taken them all.  First, he's not at the top of the list.  Second, the
    >heart with characteristics that match his hasn't come up yet.
   
    so what your saying fritzlehead is that gomer and coke head just
    happened to be in the right slot at the right time. that their fame and
    fortunes didn't have anything to do with it. what an ideal cute little
    isolated world you must live in.

Note 14.64 by BIGQ::SILVA 
    
>| why should our taxes be used to fund the activities of an organization that 
>| operates soley for the benefit of peoples based on race? that's racist.
>
>	What programs were the money going to?
    
    the programs are irrelevant. the organizations primary goal is to work
    towards advancing peoples of a specific race. i don't want my tax
    dollars given to any organization that has such a charter - regardless
    of race.

    
    Um, the Congressional Black Caucus doesn't have any "programs"
    decided for them, nor does any other caucus.  They are just a
    bunch of congresscritters as supposedly thinks the same, so they
    get together and votes amongst themselves, then go all together
    on the floor as a block.  Except when they don't.  They can still
    do this, too.  It's just they don't get a staff, offices, etc paid
    by the taxpayers.
    
      bb

    
    Clinton said that the US supports the territorial integrity of
    Ukraine on the occaision of Pres Kuchma's visit to Washington DC.
        
    I hope this support is never seriously tested...
    
    

Note 14.77 by CALDEC::RAH 
    
    >Clinton said that the US supports the territorial integrity of
    >Ukraine on the occaision of Pres Kuchma's visit to Washington DC.
     
    that GD'd idiot!!! he's pissing off the russians again. this guy has
    got to go.

Haag, do you think he should have said the US *doesn't* support the territorial
integrity of Ukraine?

    .74
    
    Gene:
    
    You demonstrate that live in isolated part of the world with your
    ignorance of the transplant issue.  There is a crisis situation in
    America for transplants and someone, no matter how much money they
    have, can't just walk in and pluck down $1,000,000 and say I want the
    next available organ.
    
    If you truly believe this, than you've been shagging too much sheep
    lately.

Note 14.79 by NOTIME::SACKS 
    
>Haag, do you think he should have said the US *doesn't* support the territorial
>integrity of Ukraine?
    
    of course not. that would be even stupider. its always a politically
    sensitive issue when addressing "territorial integrity" of relatively
    unstable "territories". the break up of the USSR was a highly charged
    and emotional issue that still has many unsolved problems. there is a
    time and place to put the stake in the ground regarding foreign policy
    relative to the former USSR. this is NOT the time. many in russia see
    the reunification of USSR as very real option. many in the "new
    territories" see that option as well. there is absolutely nothing to
    gain by throwing gasoline on that fire like slick did. so what happens
    if the ukranians have a little revolution in say 6 months and the
    russians decide to violate their "territorial integrity" to settle
    things down? we'd look pretty damn silly watching the powers that be in
    the ukraine screaming at the US to preserve their territorial
    integrity. 
    
    i am convinced that this president cannot see beyond a week relative to
    foreign policy. he has a "what will look/sound good this week" approach
    that scary at best.

    Wash, DC police shootout at 4 dead, 3 injured and Clinton won't be
    using MPD for any parades soons.

Note 14.80  by 33816::WARRENFELTZR
    
    >You demonstrate that live in isolated part of the world with your
    >ignorance of the transplant issue.  There is a crisis situation in
    >America for transplants and someone, no matter how much money they
    >have, can't just walk in and pluck down $1,000,000 and say I want the
    >next available organ.
    
    perhaps not. but i'll bet it would get the person moved right up to the
    head of the list in his/her catagory. denying that would prove it is
    you who lives in self defined neat little isolated world.

             Were USDA Advancements Tied to Political Donations?
                               by ALAN C. MILLER
                               Los Angeles Times
                          Copied w/o permission from
                            Manchester Union Leader
                              Sunday 20-Nov-1994
         
     WASHINGTON--In the frantic weeks before Bill Clinton's 1992 election
     as President, high-ranking career employees working on a politically
     sensitive program in the Agriculture Department were invited to
     contribute to a political action committee that was raising money for
     the Arkansas governor's White House bid.

     Among those involved with the PAC were then-Rep. Mike Espy, who later
     became agriculture  secretary, and Grant B. Buntrock, a Democrat who
     would be Espy's and Clinton's choice to head the Agricultural
     Stabilization and Conservation Service, the  nation's major domestic
     farm-aid program.
         
     Implicit in the invitation, some of the Civil Service employees now
     say, was the suggestion that their careers would benefit if they
     helped elect a Democratic President.

     Thirty-eight career employees --some of whom say they were approached
     at work--subsequently made the donations, most of $50 to $500. Much of
     the money was passed on to the  Arkansas-based PAC by Buntrock. Many
     of the checks were delivered together on a single day in a
     much-criticized practice known as bundling.

     After the election, Espy--a longtime Clinton ally--and, later,
     Buntrock got their appointments.  Many upper-level management employees
     who contributed to the Farmers & Ranchers '92 PAC (nearly all of them
     Democrats) also were promoted or given better job assignments. At the
     same time, career colleagues identified as Republicans or GOP allies
     were transferred to less desirable positions, according to records and
     interviews.

     Espy, Buntrock and other Agriculture Department officials contend that
     there was no connection between the contributions -- or the donors'
     partisan allegiance -- and the advancement of any employees at the
     ASCS, which recently became part of a new Farm Service Agency.
     Buntrock said all appointments adhered to the "very, very strict
     requirements" of the Civil Service process.

     But critics -- both within the department and outside it --  insist
     that the unusual pattern of campaign contributions by career
     employees, combined with the post-election personnel shifts,
     represents an alarming case of politicization of a Civil Service
     system that is supposed to be based on merit, not political loyalty.

     "This is an egregious example of abuse, of what money buys in politics
     said Ellen Miller, executive director of the Center for Responsive
     Politics, a nonpartisan research group that tracks federal campaign
     money.

     "Most government employees don't make enough to give large
     contributions without their eyes on some prize in return or some kind
     of potential enhancement of their career."

     Allegations of partisanship in government promotions are not taken
     lightly.  It is illegal to promote or demote a federal employee for
     making or failing to make a political contribution.

     Moreover, the nature of the fundraising itself raises legal
     questions. Under the Hatch Act and other statutes, federal workers may
     donate to campaigns. But nearly all solicitation or collection of
     campaign funds by civil servants is prohibited, particularly at
     government workplaces. Violations are punishable by suspension or
     dismissal.

     For their part, most of the employees who made donations to the
     pro-Clinton PAC said no one suggested that doing so would enhance
     their careers. And many who have since advanced said they did not
     believe that their contributions had any bearing.

     But others see a link. Said one donor: "Being a Democrat, you might
     hope something might come of it."

     Another career employee, who declined to contribute, said he was
     approached at work by a senior associate who advised him: "If you're
     going to send money to the Democratic Party, don't send it through
     regular channels. You want to make sure it gets to a location where
     they would be able to recognize very clearly that you were in the
     Agriculture Department.

     The employee, who requested anonymity, said he felt the remark
     indicated that "if there was an opportunity for (the Democrats) to
     reward those who supported that particular ticket, they wanted to know
     who it was they should reward."

     A whistle-blower complaint provided by its author to the Los Angeles
     Times on the condition of anonymity alleges that the correlation
     between the donations and subsequent personnel changes represents a
     pattern that "is clear and blatant." It was filed with the Office of
     Special Counsel, which generally doesn't disclose whether it is
     conducting an inquiry.
    

                  Addicts Rarely get of Welfare, study finds
                          copied w/o permission from
                            Lawrence Eagle Tribune
                              Monday 21-Nov-1994

     WASHINGTON (AP) - For low income drug addicts and alcoholics, the
     surest way to get crossed off the federal disability rolls is to die
     or go to jail.

     Only 1 percent ever recover or get a job, according to a government
     study.

     The report, by the inspector general at the Department of Health and
     Human Services, is a devastating portrait of the  government's
     failure to make sure substance abusers are in treatment as a condition
     of collecting a monthly disability check.

     More than 80,000 drug addicts and alcoholics receive benefits under
     Supplemental Security Income, a welfare program run by the Social
     Security Administration for the elderly and disabled that pays a
     maximum of $446 a month.

     Fewer than 10 percent of substance abusers are in treatment, and
     Social Security does not even know the treatment status of most of the
     rest, the HHS report said.

     Earlier studies by the General Accounting Office and the Republican
     staff of the Senate Special Committee on Aging found that addicts were
     squandering their checks on drugs and alcohol, sometimes to the point
     of overdose and death, because of inadequate supervision.

     The latest look at the problem finds that death is the most common
     reason addicts and alcoholics are dropped from the SSI rolls and that
     many substance abusers collect benefits for years. Investigators
     identified 510 who have been  receiving SSI since the program was
     first launched in 1974.

     For their study, the investigators tracked 20,101 recipients who were
     on the rolls in June 1990. Nearly four years later, as of February
     1994, 76 percent--a total of 15,271 -- were still on SSI. On average
     they had been collecting benefits for 7.4 years.

     Of the remaining 4,830 who were not receiving SSI, half had died.

     An additional 399 were dropped because they refused treatment, 370
     were in jail or another public institution and 197,  just 1 percent of
     the overall total, had recovered their health or found a job. The rest
     had obtained other benefits or been removed for other reasons,
     investigators said.

     Sen. William Cohen, whose Senate Aging Committee investigation earlier
     this year prompted Congress to end unsupervised cash payments to
     addicts, said the HHS study underscores how Social Security's 
     disability programs are highly vulnerable to abuse.

     "It is appalling that the most common reason for terminating benefits
     to addicts and alcoholics was the recipient's death, according to the
     IG's findings," said Sen. Cohen, who is in line to become chairman of
     the committee next year when the GOP takes control of Congress.

     "Taxpayer dollars are flowing into the veins of drug addicts, and the
     government is rarely taking steps to shut off the payments," Sen.
     Cohen said.

     Sen. Cohen said he is hopeful that the new restrictions on SSI
     payments to addicts, including a three-year limit on benefits, "will
     go a long way toward curbing these abuses."

     Under current law, substance abusers on SSI are supposed to be in
     treatment -- but only if it is available -- and are only suspended if
     they refuse treatment when it is offered.

     Under the new law, which take effect in March 1995, drug addicts and
     alcoholics on SSI will be kicked off the rolls after three years,
     regardless of whether they receive treatment.
         
    

    Re: .83
    
    >but i'll bet it would get the person moved right up to the head of the 
    >list in his/her catagory.
    
    Nope.  All legitimate organ donations in the US are handled by the
    Organ Transplant Network.  They absolutely cannot start bidding wars on
    organs.  Too many people would notice.  Not to mention not all the
    money in the world will help you if the next available organ isn't a
    good match.
    
    However, you can purchase organs from places like India.

    Gene:
    
    I still contend you blatantly broadbrush the issue.  Sorta sounds a
    little like the class envy you always club Wordy with.

       Re organ transplant
    
       ...and when governor Casey of PA needed (heart and liver I think) he
    received it within a week of the diagnosis. I'm sure there was no
    favoritism. }']
    
                                Steve J.

Note 14.85 by ISLNDS::MCWILLIAMS
    
    >>              Addicts Rarely get of Welfare, study finds
                                       ^^
    
    that's OFF! thanks to lady di's patient tutoring i am getting better as
    this.     
    

    .88
    
    It's a well know fact that there is no favoritism in the medical
    profession, and that they don't care about money and power.  Your
    insinuation that governor Casey got a heart and liver in one week
    because of his position is despicable.  He got it that quick because
    after a lifetime of politics, he trained every aspect of his mind and
    body to be compatible with anything or anybody at anytime.  So, he was
    able to pick up the first heartless lily-liver lyin' around and put it
    to good use for his own benefit.  Business as usual.
    
    

    <-----  HAHAHAHHA

    
    shell goes off in the barrel of a 106mm reckless rifle used for 
    avalanche control at Alpine Meadows.
    
    one Forest Service employee killed. 
    

    .90
    
    You answered all my questions about how they overcame the possible
    incompatibility problems :-) :-)
    
    

    
    SF may decide to buy its police officers .40 cal Berettas
    
    current issue is a S&W .38
    
    look for perps to have bigger holes in them in future.

    re: Were USDA Advancements Tied to Political Donations?
    
    NO NO NO!!!  IT'S A LIE Y'ALL!  THOSE REPUBLICAN, RIGHT WINGER
    BIBLE THUMPERS ARE TRYIN' TO SLIME OUR HERO!!!  NO NO
    
    NoooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOoOOOOOooooOOOOOOooooooooo.......

    
    Human error has been ruled out in the sinking of the ferry `Estonia'.
    Metal fatigue and/or poor design are the most likely culprits.
    

    
    Queen Elizabeth was a BIG WINNER in the first draw of Britain's new
    national lottery.  She won 10 pounds, which will be shared anongst
    20 members of the royal family participating in the lottery together.
    

    Baker's yeast may harbour a cure for the common cold.  Hidden in
    the genetic machinery of yeast is a newly discovered molecule
    that prevents cold viruses from replicating inside human cells.
    The process has so far only been achieved in a laboratory dish,
    and human trials are at least two years off.  The process also
    seems to work against polio, hepatitis A, and Coxsackie virus.

    
    four killed at DC police HQ.
    
    perp, a DC detective, and two FBI agents killed.
    
    perp allegedly used an "assault weapon".
    

    
    20 tons of enriched U airlifted by USAF from Ust'Kamenesk, 
    Khazakstan to Oak Ridge TN.    
    

    
    RE: .99
    
    Can't be.... guns are illegal in D.C. Remember? Plus the Brady Bill
    stopped all that "assault weapon" nonsense...
    

    Brady Bill backfire... The bill has had an opposite reaction on gun
    sales. Most major mfg's (including S&W - biggest) are posting record
    sales.
    
    Record numbers of FID's & carry permits in Ma being issued.
    
    Update: Not one person has been charged with anything since the bill
            went into effect.
    
    Sarah, it's the criminal, stupid.

    
    Jeffery Dahmer was attacked and killed in his prison cell
    in WI.

	He must have eaten one too many cell mates  %^)

	Is that true? He's dead?

    Yup...
    
    Chip

                        Most L.A. money is drug-laced
                              By Timothy Appleby
                          Scripps Howard News Service

                          Copied w/o Permission from
                            Lawrence Eagle Tribune
                            Wednesday  23-Nov-1994
         
         
     LOS ANGELES -- Adding new meaning to the term "drug money," a federal
     court has found that more than three-quarters of the cash circulating
     in the Los Angeles area is literally contaminated with cocaine. 

     That statistic is in line with national estimates, and underscores the
     extent to which the narcotics trade has touched mainstream commerce.

     The figures were cited by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last week
     in dismissing trafficking charges against an accused who denied all
     knowledge of the microscopic specks of cocaine stuck to his $30,000
     bankroll.
         
     To Lee Hearn, chief toxicologist for the medical examiner's office in
     Dade County, Fla., the data on which the court relied come as no
     surprise.

     "We tested 135 bills from different locations--Seattle, L.A., New
     York, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Texas, Florida, even U.S. currency in
     London (England), and 131 of them were tainted," he said.

     Mr. Hearn's tests were in the late 1980s, but other contemporary
     surveys have all  reached the same conclusion, he said: In most urban 
     centers, more than three bills in four, most notably 20s, will test
     positive for cocaine.

     It's not that all the money has been used for an illicit purpose.
     Rather, what has become apparent is the almost astonishing propensity
     of cocaine-tainted bills to spread their residue to clean ones,
     through a combination of friction, moisture and body heat.
         
     Last week's ruling was the culmination of a four-year court battle for
     L.A. resident Albert Alexander, now 34, who insisted that the plastic
     bag of cash found in his car after he ran a stop sign was for buying
     into a friend's trucking business.

     "I didn't have any reason to hide it," he told the court, which said
     it believed him while at the same time acknowledging that its ruling
     would significantly dent the ability of police and prosecutors to use
     cocaine traces as court evidence.

     In future, the court ruled, there would have to be additional evidence
     "clearly  connecting the money to drugs." Investigators with the L.A.
     County Sheriff's office were to meet this week to reassess the
     situation.

     In some instances, the cocaine traces are so minute--as little as a
     nanogram (one-billionth of a gram) --that they are detectable only
     with sophisticated technology. Nonetheless, their near-ubiquitous
     presence seems to mean that virtually anyone is at risk of being
     barked at by a drug hound.
         
     And equally shaky, it now appears, is the federal law that, since
     1982, has allowed such "dirty" cash to be automatically forfeited,
     even where there's no other proof of wrongdoing. Tens of millions of
     dollars have been seized under that rationale.

     In one Florida county, Mr. Hearn says, police have routinely lain in
     wait along highways for motorists and confiscated wads of suspect cash
     in which dogs were able to detect cocaine.

     Once the money is seized, the onus is then on the owner to show that
     it was legitimately obtained, which is frequently impossible. "It's
     been a license to steal," he said. "For anything less than $30,000 or
     $40,000, it's not worth it to fight it, by the time you've paid, your
     lawyers. Over the years I've I seen some cases that were really
     tragic.

     It's a long time tradition among the users of cocaine (in its powdered
     form, as opposed to the smokable crack) to snort the drug through a
     rolled-up bill acting as a makeshift straw. Another hallmark of the
     trade is to use cash as a wrapper.
         
     Whatever the source, any specks left behind on the money permeate the
     paper and rapidly spread to any other bills with which they come into
     contact. The manner in which bank clerks often count money-- peeling
     off bills and stacking them one by one, then repeating the process
     from the bottom upward--is thought to be a big factor in the spread of
     residue.
         
     Further complicating things, Mr Hearn said, is the fact that even
     though some police believe their sniffer dogs are infallible, such is
     not the case.
     
     In one recent series of tests conducted in Little Rock, Ark,. it was
     discovered that one team of dogs had got its signals crossed. Tests
     with "clean" and "dirty" cash showed that it wasn't the smell of
     cocaine that was making the dogs excited; it was the smell of money.
         
                                     -30-
    

    RE: Jeffry Dahlmer
    
    Off to join the Idi Amin Hall Of Fame, no doubt.
    
    -b

    Hates ta tell ya, but if memory serves, Amin is alive & well (possibly
    somewhere on the Arabian peninsula?)
    

       Does this mean that the other inmates get to roast nuts by
    an open fire this Holiday?
    
        

Last I heard, Idi Amin was living high off the hog in Saudi Arabia.

Ain't no hogs in Saudi Arabia.

    Just oil hogs.

    >> Haag, do you think he should have said the US *doesn't* support the
    >> territorial integrity of Ukraine?
    >
    .81> of course not. that would be even stupider. [...]
    > there is absolutely nothing to gain by throwing gasoline on that 
    > fire like slick did.[...]
    >
    > i am convinced that this president cannot see beyond a week relative
    > to foreign policy.
    
    You are aware, of course, Gene, that Clinton gave Ukraine such
    recognition in return for their ascession to the nuclear arms
    limitation treaty - something that has been a goal of US foreign 
    policy since the breakup of the USSR (1989)...something that took the
    near-complete collapse of the Ukrainian economy and government, and
    their need for western finance since Russia can't support them anymore,
    to persuade them to do?  Clinton is responding appropriately to reward
    them for letting go of their nukes - words which cost nothing - but
    that signal teh free world's interest, a proper response to the
    second-largest nuclear-armed state in the remains of the USSR.  That
    isn't short sighted, in my view.
    
    DougO

Note 14.115 by SX4GTO::OLSON 
    
    >You are aware, of course, Gene, that Clinton gave Ukraine such
    >recognition in return for their ascession to the nuclear arms
    >limitation treaty - something that has been a goal of US foreign 
    >policy since the breakup of the USSR (1989)...something that took the
    >near-complete collapse of the Ukrainian economy and government, and
    >their need for western finance since Russia can't support them anymore,
    >to persuade them to do?  Clinton is responding appropriately to reward
    >them for letting go of their nukes - words which cost nothing - but
    >that signal teh free world's interest, a proper response to the
    >second-largest nuclear-armed state in the remains of the USSR.  That
    >isn't short sighted, in my view.
    
    i am aware of this dougo. however, the president didn't need to include
    assurances of territorial boudaries as part of the package. boundaries
    that are not terribly stable or universally recognized in that part of
    the world. it show a decided lack of understanding of the regions
    political structures. not surprising. just disappointing.
    
    i see where russia and one of the balkan states started a pissing
    contest over territorial boundaries this past weekend.

    SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- A South Korean company has concluded a
    deal to buy two Russian aircraft carriers for scrap metal, the
    company said Friday.
    The Minsk and Novorossiisk, stripped of weapons and
    communications systems, are expected to arrive within several
    weeks, said Park Jong-nam of Young Distribution Co. Ltd. The price
    of the deal was not immediately available.
    The two 37,000-ton aircraft carriers, built in 1979 and 1984,
    were the mainstay of the Soviet Union's Far East Naval Fleet, but
    with the end of the Cold War, Russia decided to decommission them.
    Arms-related deals cause concern on the tense Korean Peninsula,
    where more than 2 million soldiers from North and South Korea face
    each other across the world's last Cold War frontier.
    Over the past few years, Russia has sold off its aging and
    deteriorating ships for scrap to countries including North Korea,
    causing concern in neighboring countries that the ships might be
    repaired and used.
    
    

    
    Norway's voters have rejected EU membership.

    jerry rubin, formerly of the chicago 7 anti-war group during the '60's,
    died last night in calif. from injuries sustained 2 weeks ago when he
    was hit by a car. 
    

    
    Dan Quayle has a bloodclot in his lung, but full recovery is expected.

    >Dan Quayle has a bloodclot in his lung, but full recovery is
    >expected.                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    the bloodclot. or Dan Quayle?

    
    Annecy colon colon human isn't.
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    a HUD GS-15 was transferred as a result of his choice of party favors
    at an office party. 
    
    the party favors were edible chocolate ... well I can't say it.
    
    no congressional hearings, no reduction in rank. 
    

    .98
    
>   The process has so far only been achieved in a laboratory dish,
    
    Yeah, but who can afford a dish big enough to sit in?

    
    Aldrich Ames' personal property being auctioned in Atlanta today.  His
    wife had much fine jewelry - a golden bear on a golden chain among
    them.  He had a "fine" (I've never heard of anything Russian defined as
    "fine" except for Faberge Eggs and Vodka) Russian watch in the lot too.
    
    In case you've forgotten, Ames is the CIA mole who supplied the names
    of ten operatives to the Soviet Union who were all executed by the
    Soviets among other treasonous deeds.
    
    jeff

Boston -

Second individual indicted in the 'Gidney Howe' a k a Jim Zerkel investment
fraud case.

Another stock broker in this area also arrested/indicted for selling shares
in failing stock.

    
    The Aquile Lauro (sp?), where Klinghoffer was murdered by terrorists
    and where many DECcies stayed at the second DECville is on fire and
    sinking.
    
    								-mr. bill

    -1
    
    Achille LAURO
    Decville 1986 - Cannes/France
    .....
    

    
    The _Best Girl_ and the _Lisa_ are missing and assumed sunk 
    off Half Moon Bay. Two men aboard each of the crab boats.
    
    
    

Gedne Howe.

    
    that rapper dude who was being sued for harrassing a female fan is
    currently in the hospital, recovering from multiple shot wounds
    received after some sort of holdup in times square early this am...
    
     

    
    Tupac Shakur
    
    rumor is that a drugdeal went sour.

    
    yep...that's him...
    
    
    

    One less rapper.
    
    Or is that, one rapper less?

    local press reported 17 year "old" boys charges of being beatin by mpls
    police were upheld and officer will attend 1 year counseling. press is
    outrageous that police seargant retains job. press states that no other
    information is available.
    
    
    this smelled fishy. i don't "love" the police but there currently is a
    major fued between the press backed limo lib mayor of mpls (a black
    woman) and the police department whose top guy resigned citing heavy
    handed tactic by city hall. i made a call and found out the "boy" has
    been convicted of 27 crimes since age 11 including rape, manslaughter,
    and bunches of drug charges. the "boy" cited that the cop pushed him so
    hard he hit a wall and cut his head. 7 stiches were needed to close the
    wound. in this state crimes by those under 18 are not allowed to be
    discussed or in anyway influence current charges. you can find out
    anyone's criminal record by using the criminal apprehension computers
    here. 
    
    god bless the criminal justice system of the US of A.

    So, here's how Democracy works in Massachusetts:
    
    You have an election, and among other things on the ballot
    there are nine referendum questions.  The election takes place,
    the votes are counted, and the results are announced.
    
    Then, a judge who doesn't like the way the voters decided on
    some of the questions comes out three weeks later and slams
    an injunction against five of the nine questions, so that they
    do not go into effect as the people voted.
    
    The judge didn't like the fact that the questions themselves
    didn't appear on the ballot, even though they were sent out
    to all voters in a large booklet weeks before the election,
    and descriptions of the questions were available on a separate
    sheet at the polling places.
    
    If the real reason is that the questions didn't appear on the
    ballot, then why didn't he invalidate all nine of the questions
    instead of just the five?
    
    If your answer is "He only stopped the ones that passed", then
    that doesn't make any sense either, because some of the questions
    were "negatives", in that a "no" vote was a vote to change the
    status quo.  If you believe this, then you may also believe that
    the Boston skating rink was indeed closed because they didn't
    have Workman's Comp, and I have a bridge to sell you as well.
    
    Is Democracy dead in Massachusetts?  What kind of government is
    this, that allows one unaccountable man to overturn the vote of
    the people?  If this election is invalid, can Mitt Romney show up
    in Washington in a couple of months?  Most of all, why bother
    voting if it means nothing?
    
    Chris

    To answer the inevitable question resulting from my sloppy wording
    in .136, of course the questions appeared on the ballot, but the
    text of the questions did not; only "Question 1: Y/N" (or something
    similar) appeared there.
    
    Meanwhile, in addition to this, the "rent control cities" have
    decided that they didn't like the way that the people voted, and
    legislation is in the process of passing (if it hasn't already)
    to re-instate rent control.
    
    Don't these people in government get it?  The people are starting
    to get restless...
    
    Chris

    
    Do you always rant so?
    
    The election was unconstitutional.
    
    I've been looking at the Mass Constitution before and after the
    election, and I have no doubt *AT ALL* that the election *will*
    be voided.  The constitution is EXPLICIT that initatives will be
    summarized on the ballot.  There is a slight wishy-washy provision,
    but not enough to declare the election constitutional.
    
    Imagine that the entire ballot was printed as:
    
    Governor/Lt. Governor
    1
    2
    3
    4
    
    United States Senator
    1
    2
    3
    4
    
    United States Representative
    1
    2
    
    Massachusetts Senator
    1
    2
    
    Massachusetts Representative
    1
    
    Etc etc etc....
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    
    So does this mean that all the voting machines will have to have space
    between the levers for the text of the questions?
    
    	This is utter stupidity. 
    
    ed

What I heard was that the injunctions center on the AG's office which is
responsible for the final OK on the format of the ballot. The AG was within
his rights not to include the text of the measures on the ballot since the
text was made available by the state on a separate piece of paper available
to all voters at the polling place, this in compliance with a law passed
by the Mass Legislature within the last year or so specifying same.

It would appear that the judge has been won over by various advocacy groups
who were unhappy with the results of the votes on these measures. He needed
to act swiftly since rescinsion of the Blue laws was to take effect in
less than two weeks. Unless his ruling is overturned quickly, no Sunday
Holiday shopping in MA in 1994.

    
    No, text of a summary of the questions.  The constitution is explicit.
    
    The judge is upholding the law.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.
    
    								-mr. bill

	Isn't Democarcy wonderful %^) %^) %^)

    
    If they ARE all voided - do we have to go vote again at a special
    election, or are the winners now SOL?
               

|Unless his ruling is overturned quickly, no Sunday
|Holiday shopping in MA in 1994.
    
    The Burlington Mall has been open at 10:00 am on Sunday mornings.
    Seems like every Mall in the state is open at 12:00 pm on Sunday.
    
    But then again, the rest of your reply was quite factual as well.
    
|this in compliance with a law passed
|by the Mass Legislature within the last year or so specifying same.
    
    The law itself could be unconstitutional.  That might stand, however,
    because the time to challenge that was before the election, not after.
    However, there was no law permitting the Secretary of State to print
    paper ballots without summaries.  No law permitting the Secretary of
    State to distribute separate summaries to paper ballot communities.
    No law permitted local town clerks from distributing unlawful summaries
    to voters *througout* the state.
    
    
    He needed to act swiftly in issuing a temporary restraining order
    because there is good cause to believe the plaintiffs will prevail.
    
    
    The election was unconstitutional people.  Get used to it.
    
    
    The motives of the people challenging the election results are not at
    dispute.  Jerry Williams himself has talked of challenging the results
    of the seat belt referendum.  Barbara Anderson no doubt would have
    challenged the results in a second if Question 6 passed.
    
    No matter the integrety (or lack of it) of the plaintiffs, the judge
    has integrety.  He will probably issue the most unpopular court
    decision in recent memory.
    
    								-mr. bill

    Until a couple of years ago, my sister-in-law lived in a $96-a-month
    studio apartment on Mt Auburn Street, just a few steps out of Harvard
    Square. She's an Ivy grad, and a licensed, well-employed architect.
    
    If rent control is repealed, a lot of yuppies are going to be ticked
    off.
    

    >> Do you always rant so?
    
    Not "always".  Only when I see my vote, which by the way many have
    fought and died for, turned into a meaningless joke.  Only when
    I see our democracy being snatched away from us piece by piece.
    Damn right I'll rant when I see this going on.  Maybe someday,
    if this kind of totalitarian nonsense keeps up, the people will
    do more than just "rant".
    
    
    >> The election was unconstitutional.
    
    Was it a surprise to everyone in government (like this judge) that
    the text of the questions would not appear on the ballot?  Shouldn't
    something have been done *in advance*, during all the pre-election
    months when this was known?
    
    Or is it "better" to do it *now*, after the results of the elections
    are known, despised by the powers-that-be, and so hey, let's use
    this loophole to declare the election invalid, heh-heh.
    
    If it was so "unconstitutional", then why didn't they do anything
    before the voters made it clear that they were going to vote in
    such an "undesirable" manner?
    
    Chris

    
|   If they ARE all voided - do we have to go vote again at a special
|   election, or are the winners now SOL?
    
    No answer.  The constitution has nothing to say about what should be
    done if an unconstitutional election was held.
    
    								-mr. bill

    And again, just so we don't lose this point, why were only five
    of the questions declared "null and void"?  Why not all of them?
    
    Does the government really believe we're so stupid that we can't
    see through this charade?
    
    Chris
    

|   If it was so "unconstitutional", then why didn't they do anything
|   before the voters made it clear that they were going to vote in
|   such an "undesirable" manner?
    
    Barbara Anderson herself says she should have challenged the election
    before.  She knew about the blank, she certainly is familiar with the
    constitution, but she took no action.
    
    And a clue....
    
|   Or is it "better" to do it *now*, after the results of the elections
|   are known, despised by the powers-that-be, and so hey, let's use
|   this loophole to declare the election invalid, heh-heh.
    
    The "powers-that-be" are all arguing that the election was
    constitutional.  Some of we the people are arguing otherwise.
    
    								-mr. bill

    The "powers that be" are people who are threatened by removing
    rent control, and by imposing term limits, two of the five questions
    that were blocked by Generalissimo Judge.  In short, the people
    currently enjoying the fruits of limitless power in Massachusetts,
    politics as usual.
    
    If anyone's doing any Monday-morning quarterbacking now, tough.
    The people have spoken.  That's the way this country is supposed
    to work.  If it's not going to work that way anymore, then I'm
    not going to bother participating in the process, which should
    only make the entrenched all the happier.
    
    Chris

    
    What about those places where the ballot *did* have the full text of
    the questions printed on it?   

    I'm gonna have to go with Kane on this one...
    
    ...any election that Kennedy won should be declared unconstitutional,
    or otherwise null and void, and they otta make those voters go back to
    the polls until they get it right!

|   And again, just so we don't lose this point, why were only five
|   of the questions declared "null and void"?  Why not all of them?

    Only five questions change the status quo.  The temporary restraining
    order is to keep things as they are until the matter is settled.
    
    So, for example, before the election, no negative checkoffs.
    The unconstitutional election permits negative checkoffs.  The
    temporary restraining says hold it, these people have a good order,
    don't do anything different UNTIL we rule further on this challenge
    to the election.  (BTW, there is no special interest group lobbying
    for reversing the results of this question.  The special interst
    group MASSpirg *WANTED* the results to come out this way.)
    
    If the election is declared unconstitutional, the Judge should probably
    declare all nine questions invalid.
    
|   Does the government really believe we're so stupid that we can't
|   see through this charade?
    
    No, clearly the government is arguing that people aren't that stupid.
    Then again, there are still people who don't believe Oswald shot
    Kennedy, so the government should know better.
    
    								-mr. bill

|   If this goes through, I'm through voting
    
    My my my.  You really do value your voting rights, don't you?
    
    								-mr. bill

	Man, am I glad they are smart enough not to let me vote. %^)

>    The Burlington Mall has been open at 10:00 am on Sunday mornings.
>    Seems like every Mall in the state is open at 12:00 pm on Sunday.

But not Downtown Crossing, eh, bill?
    
>    But then again, the rest of your reply was quite factual as well.
    
Have it your way, bill. It's your silly state to live in, anyway. I was
only quoting what was said by your Flaming Liberal Witch of the Airways
this AM.

    
      This is actually late coming to Massachusetts.  In much of the
     country it would be assumed that the losing side in any referendum
     or legislative or executive action would go to court and thwart
     the will of the people.  And anyway, the judge has better cause
     than most of the others - the ballot was indeed confusing for
     those (unlike Bill or myself or Chris) who hadn't read up first.
    
      But I'm with Chris in theory.  Every time a judge overturns a law
     at any level, it is a real slap in the face of the people.  The USA
     judiciary has been awfully arrogant for a long time.  If majorities
     do not rule most of the time, in what sense is our government
     representative ?
    
      bb

    re: Note 14.136 by DECWIN::RALTO
    
    > Most of all, why bother voting if it means nothing?
    
    Now you know one of the reasons I started topic 91.  Why not discuss
    it there?  

RE    <<< Note 14.136 by DECWIN::RALTO "Suffering from p/n writer's block" >>>

>    Is Democracy dead in Massachusetts?  What kind of government is
>    this, that allows one unaccountable man to overturn the vote of
>    the people?  

  The judiciary branch of the Massachusetts government has the responsibility
to interpret the Constitution of the Commonwealth and the laws. The reason I
heard that Zobel overturned the vote was that he felt the Constitution stated
that referendum to change laws had to be summarized on the ballot. 

  If that is the case, then he didn't make the decision because of his personal
feelings on those issues, he made that decision because of his interpretation
of how the citizens of the state through their elections and elected
representatives had decided earlier how referendum should be conducted. 

>If this election is invalid, can Mitt Romney show up
>    in Washington in a couple of months?  Most of all, why bother
>    voting if it means nothing?
    
  Mitt Romney can certainly show up in Washington any time he so wishes. It's
a free country, he can go anywhere he wants to go.

  George

|>    The Burlington Mall has been open at 10:00 am on Sunday mornings.
|>    Seems like every Mall in the state is open at 12:00 pm on Sunday.
|
|But not Downtown Crossing, eh, bill?
    
    The mall at Downtown Crossing went under, remember?  Even the french
    name couldn't bail them out of all that debt.  Last I heard,
    even Foxy Lady declined that location.  But like Marjorie shops Downtown
    Crossing anyway.  Newbury Street or Chesnut Hill, maybe.
    
|I was only quoting what was said by your Flaming Liberal Witch of the
|Airways this AM.
    
    She's not my anything.
    
    BTW, should Marjorie accept the offer from Playboy?
    
    								-mr. bill

>    BTW, should Marjorie accept the offer from Playboy?

I've only seen Marjorie once when I was unfortunate enough to surf past
Lifetime on a Sunday night. From what I recall having seen, I wouldn't
bother tuning back to that, so what she does re: Playboy is immaterial to me.

    NEW BRIEFS PEOPLE! NEW BRIEFS!!!

    
    By the way, Penthouse has a spread on Paula Jones.  Seems she
    posed in the buff for her boyfriend, who now decides to cash in
    on the Prexy-angle.  She sued to stop pub, but lost, and 400K
    copies are spread-eagled across the land.  So you can enhance
    your knowledge of the Prez's alleged taste in women...
    
      bb
    

And people wonder why there are Lorena Bobbitts running around...

    
    RE: .162
    
    Getting some for Christmas gene....
    
    How about you??
    

    	re .163
    
    	Actually I heard they were just topless pix, and that she won
    	the suit, but Penthouse said it was too late to stop distribution.

    >Getting some for Christmas gene....
    >How about you??
    
    yup. hoping for boxers so as stuff don't get crunched up.

    re: Note 14.165 by SOLVIT::KRAWIECKI
    
    Andy, remember, brown in back, yellow in the front.

    
    the pics were intended for Paula's boyfriends' eyes only.

    proof that you should NOT drop yer drawers for anyone.

    
    a brave palestinian commando axed to death an israeli girl soldier.

    teenage girl in VA lets in a man impostoring as a cable repairman who
    proceeds to rape her...

    
    Postal rates increase official.  32 cents First Class, starts January
    sometime.  Other rate increases also approved.
    
    The first Postmaster General of the US, Benjamin Franklin, established
    2-day service, Philadelphia to Boston.  The Postal Service says is now
    going to try to natch Ben's performance.
    
      bb

    
      No surprises as House dems picked new leadership for 104th.
    Gephart leader, David Bonior minority whip, Fazio caucus.
    
      Bonior, much criticized as majority whip in 103rd for poor party
    discipline, should do MUCH better as minority whip, whose chief
    duty will be liberal whining, his forte.
    
      bb

    
    
    
    
    RE: .164  agreed, Brandon.  
    
    
    Mike

    > Postal rates increase official.  32 cents First Class, starts January
    > sometime.  Other rate increases also approved.
    
    Did they modify federal law?  Some folks still send 1st class mail
    for 2 cents.

    
    Boserbs cross into Croatia, kidnap 15 Ukrainian UN 
    from their APC, take them into Bosnia.
    
    They are now holding 500 UN hostages. Way to go guys.

The hostage crisis is being sort of hushed up over here, it seems.

/john

    ABC (Peter Jennings) had a mention of it yesterday.
    
    Seems like they are fixing to spin this such that, if the UN needs
    to be extracted from Bosnia, it will require American assistance.
    
    I don't know why?  Gen. Shallylackaveely said if the UN tries to
    withdraw they will be attacked pretty furiously and therefore require
    "our services" to assist them.
    
    IMO: If I were the aggressor, and a nutless, annoying military force 
    wanted to go home, I'd let 'em walk out rather than risk total war with 
    folks who are currently sitting on the fence.
    
    Ah ha, I figured it out....  Maine, Lusitania, Pearl, Gulf of Tonkin...
    Give us a reason to kick your arse.
                           

    
    Boserbs want to rip off all the nice ordnance and equipment,
    but might let them keep their clothes.
    
    their APCs, weapons, webgear, flak vests, canteens will all 
    be worn with pride. 

    
    .178:
    
    That's because the UN/NATO is insisting that `hostage' is too strong a
    word.  (What are they, `guests' of the Serbs?)  Human shields against
    NATO air strikes is a pretty accurate description.
     

    
    fighting between Croatians and Krainja Serbs 30 mi east of Split.
    
    

Japanese reported to be upset that the U.S. Postal service will issue a
stamp with a "mushroom cloud" on it -- commemorating the development
of the A-bomb.

(I can just see those stamps on all the Christmas cards now...right beneath
the "Noel" ones).

    >> Japanese reported to be upset that the U.S. Postal service will issue
    >> a stamp with a "mushroom cloud" on it -- commemorating the development
    >> of the A-bomb.
    
    Then the Japanese can refrain from buying any of the stamps.
    
    Problem solved.
    
    Chris

    
    
    lisa marie and michael heading to divorce court...
    
    

    
    we should threaten to issue a Bataan Death March, Rape of Nanking, 
    and "3 Alls" stamps if they don't like it.
    

    
    Well, if Japan issued a Pearl Harbour stamp, that could be considered
    to be in bad taste, too.
    

    
    .185
    
    My radio station said that was all pish and he's just mad because she
    won't live with him in New York, or something like that.
                                                  

	No wonder he's been looking so pale and weird lately.

What's the point in commemorating negativity?

and I don't mean banning exhibits/not remembering for (hopefully) the sake
of not repeating...

    
    RE: .168
    
    >Andy, remember, brown in back, yellow in the front.
    
    
      How'd you know those are my favorite colors???
    
    :)
    

re: .189, /john

:^)

SNL broke the news about the Jackson-Presley breakup a few weeks ago.

They said Ms. Presley had come to the realization that marrying a
homosexual pedophile mightn't have been such a bright idea at that.

Re: <<< Note 14.187 by TROOA::COLLINS "Comfortably numb..." >>>

>>    Well, if Japan issued a Pearl Harbour stamp, that could be considered
>>    to be in bad taste, too.

Just like if we issued a Hiroshima or Nagasaki (I bet I butchered the spelling
of both) stamps.

However, a stamp of the first nuclear explosion isn't going to offend anyone but
a few eight-eyed ground hogs and six-legged deer at the Trinity site :-)

                                    Roak

>However, a stamp of the first nuclear explosion isn't going to offend anyone but
>a few eight-eyed ground hogs and six-legged deer at the Trinity site :-)

Some symbols carry with them undeniable interpretations.

A noose hanging from a tree would not convey a sporting event to me.

Atomic explosions were not used to build dams.

    
    >Atomic explosions were not used to build dams
    
    in India they had a "peaceful" one.

If it's going to be that offensive, mebbe we can keep quiet about it before
the USPS catches wind of it and decides to up the pressrun by tenfold.

Re: <<< Note 14.196 by NASAU::GUILLERMO "But the world still goes round and round" >>>

>>Atomic explosions were not used to build dams.

Atomic energy was used to replace them, however.

Did you have problems with the Wright Brother's Airplane stamp?  After all
airplanes were used to bomb the living R.O. out of people during several
wars...

                            Roak

 This just in!

>Atomic energy was used to replace them, however.

So, show a stamp with the standard atom nucleus and the positive/negative
charges revolving around it...

>Did you have problems with the Wright Brother's Airplane stamp?  After all
>airplanes were used to bomb the living R.O. out of people 

Nope.  A simple picture of an airplane would not convey that image (to me).

An airplane dropping a bomb would.

A picture of the Enola Gay would.

A picture of a rifle would not bother me.  A picture of someone getting shot
with a rifle would.

Do you see my point?

Re: <<< Note 14.201 by NASAU::GUILLERMO "But the world still goes round and round" >>>

>>A picture of a rifle would not bother me.  A picture of someone getting shot
>>with a rifle would.

So a picture of mushroom cloud with buildings crumbling in its shock wave would
bother you (and me) but just a mushroom cloud over an open desert would not,
correct?

>>Do you see my point?

Yes, I simply disagree with it.

                            Roak

Here's an idea...why don't they print a stamp with the formula E=mc2 on it?

After all that was integral with the end result but intrinsically does not
signify the concept of mass destruction.

>Yes, I simply disagree with it.

Agreed.

    
    Sen Hollings seems to be preaching to the Senate about dry bones,
    could this be the start of a filibuster. 

Note 14.203 by NASAU::GUILLERMO
    
>After all that was integral with the end result but intrinsically does not
>signify the concept of mass destruction.
    
    oh brother. give it a break. next thing you know someone will advocate
    abolishing the july 4 holiday as being offensive to the brits. if we
    wanna put a bomb on our stamps that's OUR business.

    
    Roak,
    
    Hey...I ain't gonna get all bent out of shape over the stamp...I just
    think it's in bad taste, that's all.  I'd feel the same way about
    a stamp celebrating napalm, too.
    

    How about the depict a picture of an underground nuclear test?

re:.206

Agreed. OUR business. (I'm African-AMERICAN, in case you forgot.)

Rational debate is healthy...don't you think? (I emphasize >>rational<<).

Look folks, the central point which seems to be escaping your normally 
awesome deductive prowess is this: up 'til now, no other purpose for
nuclear explosions (that I'm aware of anyway) has been designed other
than to test the destructive capability of the payload.

If someone can demonstrate an application _other_ than blowing someone/
thing to Alfa-Centauri, then I will concede there is a probability of
over-sensitization here. 

Until then I think, especially for this time of year and all ;- 
it displays a great deal of callousness.

(The July 4th comparison is totally unrelated and without merit.)

Re: <<< Note 14.211 by NASAU::GUILLERMO "But the world still goes round and round" >>>

>>If someone can demonstrate an application _other_ than blowing someone/
>>thing to Alfa-Centauri, then I will concede there is a probability of
>>over-sensitization here.

I guess you didn't realize it, but you just made the point you're asking for.

One proposed method of inter-stellar travel is by timed detonation of nuclear
warheads behind a spaceship (literally blowing people to Alpha-Centuri for
example).

The data derived from detonations to date has helped further the design and
theories of nuclear drive.

>>(The July 4th comparison is totally unrelated and without merit.)

What, bombing the snot out of the British doesn't rate, but bombing the snot out
of the Japanese does?

                               Roak

    	re .211
    
    	A recent National Geographic article on the former states of the
    	Soviet Union tells of many civil-engineering uses of nuclear blasts
    	by the Soviets -- mining, creating reservoirs, harbors, to name
    	a few.  Granted that the purpose of mentioning these was to 
    	detail some of the fallout pollution that remains, but these
    	were alternative applications nonetheless.

    Re: .212
    
    >One proposed method of inter-stellar travel is by timed detonation of 
    >nuclear warheads behind a spaceship (literally blowing people to 
    >Alpha-Centuri for example).
    
    Great.  Care to demonstrate that application?  No?  Then it doesn' meet
    the specified criteria, does it?

    
    
    don't have the whole story, but i found what i heard rather amusing...
    
    a recent 'teacher-of-the-year' has been suspended after removing the
    slip from her can-can outfit during a game of spin-the-bottle at a
    school dance.  she said she realizes her mistake and that you
    "can't-can't" take off your can-can slip at at dance.  ( i swear that
    is what the guy said...)
    
    

Re: <<< Note 14.214 by DTRACY::CHELSEA "Mostly harmless." >>>

>>    Great.  Care to demonstrate that application?  No?  Then it doesn' meet
>>    the specified criteria, does it?

I listed an application.  You seem to also want an implementation; that wasn't
requested by the author...

                                  Roak

>One proposed method of inter-stellar travel is by timed detonation of nuclear
>warheads behind a spaceship (literally blowing people to Alpha-Centuri for
>example).

After the Challenger and the O-rings...I can't believe they're seriously
entertaining something like this...learn something new everyday...

Did this proposal come from someone who has stock in a munitions plant?

...well fine then. We should have pictures of bloody knives next...to depict
the cutting of the umbilical cord during the wonder of birth...I say keep
violence in the movies where it belongs!

>What, bombing the snot out of the British doesn't rate, but bombing the snot out
>of the Japanese does?

As I've tried to communicate in several notes now -- bombing _anyone_.
I thought the prevailing mindset was supposed to be Peace on Earth, right
about now...

I don't think stamps should directly commemorate tragedies.

re:.213

>Granted that the purpose of mentioning these was to 
>detail some of the fallout pollution that remains, but these
>were alternative applications nonetheless.

You don't often make me laugh (O.k. hardly ever)...but when you do

you're a "killer". :-D

After Chernobyl, I'd hardly cite the Soviet Union as a efficient user of
nuclear power.

    There was also a plan for a nuclear-powered aircraft.  It was abandoned
    when the planners realized the exhaust was more dangerous than the
    payload.

>I don't think stamps should directly commemorate tragedies.

	You mean like the AIDS stamp?

re:.221

What does the AIDS stamp look like?

Is it a dancing skeleton?

    	What does it matter what it looks like?  All I did was directly
    	address a direct statement -- "I don't think stamps should directly
    	commemorate tragedies."
    
    	You make it tough to hit the target when you keep back-filling with
    	more and more qualifications.

re:.216

>that wasn't requested by the author...

O Ho...splitting some infinitesimal hairs ain't we? 

...you work for DEC *er* Digital. You ought to know it ain't an application
'til it's implemented!

Where's Binder?

Application (from my next to useless A.H. dictionary) :
	1. The ACT of applying (no blue sky allowed!).
	2. Anything that is APPLIED. (Notice the *verbs* here!)

re:.223

What does it matter what it looks like? What does it matter what it looks like?

But that's the whole point of this silly rathole isn't it?

Does the stamp overtly say "Hallelujah, AIDS is here!" Can one derive that
message from it implicitly? Or is one more inclined to interpret "Let's try
to battle this hideous thing and have hope in overcoming it"?

I'll wager there's probably a red ribbon somewhere on its face. Since the
symbolism has been clearly established for the symbol, I doubt it is
commemorating a tragedy. If it is simply the word it is ambiguous whether
it celebrates it or its defeat. So doubt is once again a valid conclusion.

>Does the stamp overtly say "Hallelujah, AIDS is here!"
    
    	Does the mushroom cloud say, "We're glad we bombed your cities"?
    	Not to me.
    
>inclined to interpret "Let's try
>to battle this hideous thing and have hope in overcoming it"?
    
    	Doesn't the mushroom cloud (sans demolished city) say, "Quite
    	an awesome thing man has made.  We need to be careful with it" ...
    	That's what it says to me.
    
    	I don't know specifically what the AIDS stamp has on it.  I think
    	it has the red ribbon.  It may say AIDS, or may not.
    
    	To me the ribbon says, "I'm politically correct."  I take offense
    	at the ribbon.  But just as I'm arguing against some foreign
    	nation leading us by the balls because they are offended, under
    	that same mindset I do not argue against the USA commemorating
    	such a self-inflicted disease, and I've simply decided not to
    	accept that particular stamp at the post office window if that's 
    	what they want to sell me.
    
    	The Japanese can handle their offense in the same manner.

    Sirhan Sirhan up for parole, once again.

    The Commander in Chief announces a major spending increase for defense.

    Re: .216
    
    >You seem to also want an implementation; that wasn't requested by the 
    >author...
    
    What the author said:  "If someone can demonstrate an application...."
    You, by your own admission, merely listed an application -- and it's
    not even a current application.
    
    Kinda like demonstrating vaporware....

    In Atlanta today, an auction of personal belongings of Aldrich Ames.

    
    aids stamp is a red ribbon on a white backround, nothing else.

A-Bomb stamp is a mushroom cloud, with the following text underneath:

	Atomic bombs hasten end of war.  1945.

It may say "nuclear" rather than "atomic".  It definitely says "bombs
hasten end of war."  It may say "1945-1995".

/john

Note by NASAU::GUILLERMO
    
>Agreed. OUR business. (I'm African-AMERICAN, in case you forgot.)

    no. i haven't forgot. but then agian...maybe i did. in my response i
    gave absolutely no consideration to race, color or creed. i don't
    consider such things relative when discussing such things as "stamps".
    
>Rational debate is healthy...don't you think? (I emphasize >>rational<<).
    
    "rational debate" is terribly subjective. you've suffered through the
    crisco kid and restrooms notes. that ought to tell you something.

    Footfall was a good example of a militia defending against a foreign
    (very foreign) invader throught the use of warhead powered spacecraft.
    
    There was another, better novel, but I don't remember it right off...

    
    Webster HUbbell, former associate attorney general and a longtime
    friend of Bill Clinton's, has agreed to plead guilty to two felony
    counts prepared by Whitewater independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr.  
    The two charges are reported to be mail fraud and tax evasion.
    
    
    from today's Washington Times
    

    
    
    
    A probe into charges that State Department officials in the Bush
    administration illegally searched candidate Bill Clinton's passport
    file has ended with a finding that no laws were broken.  The cost of
    the investigation was $1.6 million.
    
    
    from today's Washington Times

    
    3 member of the seattle seahawks were in a car accident last nite.  one
    of them, whose name they would not release, is in critical condition. 
    another (i believe the driver) was arrested for vehicular endangerment
    (or something like that...the word used escapes me at the moment...)
    
    and joe montana has announced that he is going to retire after this
    season.
    
    
    

    I just heard on local news Montana will make  decision at end of season
    whether to retire or not.

An interesting story about "voluntary" work on holidays has just hit
the media here.

Two women who worked as clerks at the Raynham dog track were fired the
day after they refused to work on Christmas 1992.  When applying for the
permit to be open on Christmas, the track owners had claimed that they
would ask for volunteers to work that day, but when it came time to set
up the work schedule, the track decided to make everyone come in to work,
realizing that it would be one of their most busy days.

The case went to court shortly thereafter, but the judge ruled, after
speaking to a local priest, that there was no religious requirement for
the women to refuse to work on Christmas Day; there were sufficient
opportunities outside working hours for them to attend mass.

/john

    
    Lucien Bouchard, Official Opposition leader on the Canadian parliament,
    has lost his left leg to necrotizing fasciitis (the flesh-eating bact-
    erium), and is in critical condition.
    

Other reports say it was phlebitis.

It seems as though a quick glance would settle the matter. Obviously some
portion of the media is speculating yet again.

    
    Phlebitis?  I don't think so...he developed a blot clot in the lower
    leg, and the clot became infected.  He was operated on twice...once
    to remove the foot, and then again for the rest of the leg. Of course,
    the news reports *are* a little breathless at the moment, so who knows?
    

	Gee, yesterday the fat gene, today, smoking is linked to male
impedence. What will tomorrow bring?

	And to clear things up before everyone flys off the handle, I am not
saying Gene is fat, and I don't smoke.

    Male impedence? Impedance? Isn't resistance futile?

    
    Male impedence?  Are you saying a guy would resist her?
    

So it's all just reluctance then?

>	Gee, yesterday the fat gene, today, smoking is linked to male
>impedence. What will tomorrow bring?



 ohm y

	sirhan sirhan gave a wry smile as the parole board spokesman
	listed among the reasons they won't be recommending parole
	that he had not learned a saleable skill while in prison.

    Does Web Hubbell give up practice of law with this pleading?

	If he had only written that book he would have been out of prison.

    I doubt he'll get out of prison, even as a very old man.

	the fact that he killed a high-profile political figure was
	mentioned as well.

>Agreed. OUR business. (I'm African-AMERICAN, in case you forgot.)

.233>>no. i haven't forgot. but then agian...maybe i did. in my response i
>>gave absolutely no consideration to race, color or creed. i don't
>>consider such things relative when discussing such things as "stamps".

Neither did I.

What I was emphasizing was as an American I have a right to an opinion
on this, same as you.  My conscience about commemorating an
implement of pure destruction of Life (not Offended-others) is the
primary reason for criticism.    

         <<< Note 14.194 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>


>They said Ms. Presley had come to the realization that marrying a
>homosexual pedophile mightn't have been such a bright idea at that.

Apparently Lisa misunderstood what Mikey meant when he said he 
"wanted kids".

daryll

    
    
    glen, i am assuming you mean 'impotence', right???
    
    
    (you should look up the definition of the word you typed... :>:> )
    

    The word he typed doesn't exist.

    
    hmm...impede, impeded, impeding, impediment, impedimenta...
    
    there is impedAnce, tho...
    

	Yes raq, that was what I meant. I meant to hit spellcheck, but forgot.
I wish I had a memory.... 

    re .258 see .245
    

Richard Gere and Cindy Crawford have announced
that they will divorce.

    Here it comes....
    
    
    
    					8-P

    >>I wish I had a memory....
    
    well, just look at your p_n... :>
    
    

       
    ...small, but effective...
    

    Yes, that's what all the goils say.

	raq.... only you would have picked up that! i had forgotten what my
p-name was!

    >Richard Gere and Cindy Crawford have announced
    >that they will divorce.
    
    I wonder who will get custody of the gerbils...
    
    -b

    
    gere has announced that he's going to marry the dali lama.
    
    jeff

    
    Bouchard is reported to be out of danger, however, necrotizing
    fasciitis has claimed the life of a 24-year-old Newfoundland
    woman this morning.
    

    couple who won the Powerball $50 M in Nebraska has been on the guvt
    teat for years collecting FDA subsidies for not farming his 1000
    acres...who says the rich don't get richer?

Note 14.272 by PNTAGN::WARRENFELTZR
    
    >couple who won the Powerball $50 M in Nebraska has been on the guvt
    >teat for years collecting FDA subsidies for not farming his 1000
    >acres...who says the rich don't get richer?
    
    pretty stupid statement there fritz. farmers don't get rich on dept. of
    ag handouts. that part of the country is heavy into CRP with is about
    the only dept. of ag. program to come along in decades to be worth its
    salt. if you will recall, CRP pays farmers to lay land aside to grow
    naturally and become shelter for game. it's the primary reason the
    pheasant population went from 1.2 million birds to 3.6 million birds in
    3 years in SD alone.
    
    also, most farmers had no choice but to accept government subsidies for
    crops. the GD government put those who DIDN'T accpet their subsidies at
    an economic disadvantage. it was/is "you take the money or we give it
    to your neighbors". the worst kind of government intervention in free
    enterprise. i know of a few farmers who refused any government
    subsidies. they are all out of the farming business now.

    didn't mention Gene, that the couple isn't farming their corn because
    of the subsidies, they planted soy bean instead, so a little fraud goes
    a long way, huh?

    
    
    
    White house has been cited in the health care meetings that they held. 
    A judge has ordered them to pay $300,000 in legal fees that the doctors
    who wanted the task forces notes released incurred as well as release
    the rest of the files.  The White House says there aren't any more, but
    the judge seems to disagree.
    
    
    

>>>     Bouchard is reported to be out of danger, however, necrotizing
    fasciitis has claimed the life of a 24-year-old Newfoundland
    woman this morning.


	He's pretty lucky - apparently this disease kills 4 out of 5
	people who get it.

    .138:
    
�    Do you always rant so?
    
    Well handled!  Complimenting a star pupil would be out of character.
    
    Dick

A couple operating a computer bulletin board in Milpitas, California,
have just been convicted in Federal District Court in Memphis, Tennesee,
of violating federal obscenity laws.  They will have to spend at least
two-and-a-half years in jail, and Janet Reno gets their computer equipment.

They were convicted after a postal inspector in Memphis accessed their board.

They argued unsuccessfully during the trial that their conviction violated
the Supreme Court ruling that obscenity was to be determined by local
community standards and that the Justice Department had sought a community
with more conservative standards than their own in which to prosecute them.

/john

Hope Ms. Ranger likes their gear.

    What kind of obscenity were they found guilty of promulgating?

     Read a story recently that R. Gere approached Sly Stallone at some
     party/gathering and warned Sly that he didn't appreciate the
     attention Sly was giving to Cindy... Sly didn't respond, just
     ignored him. Lucky Dick.
    
     Chip

    
    
    a gas meter reader man, armed with a warrent and lord only knows 
    what else he needed to gain access to the house that refused to let 
    him in to read the meter, got a bit of a surprise when he walked into
    the cellar.  there was a man, completely dress, sitting in a lawn
    chair, decomposing.  he had been there for over 7 months, while his
    wife lived her life in THE SAME HOUSE!!!!!  don't know if they are
    investigating for anything, but i believe they said she was 'suggesting
    that they not go into the cellar'.
    
    (i believe this came out of the new york post, as the couple lived in
    queens, ny...)
                      

    Family name Mozart, Beethoven, Elgar, or (maybe if I'm really REALLY
    lucky) Cage or (fond hope) REICH???
    

    
    The eel-like Speakah of the CA Assembly, Willy Brown, eked out
    a few extra days of sitting in the Speakah's chair when a so-called
    "Republican" switched affiliation to the Dems and voted for Mr Brown,
    causing a 40-40 split with the Rep Speaker candidate Mr Brulty.
    
    Mr Brulty unwisely predicted that the Speakah's chair would be his
    last week, but this week he has egg on his face, courtesy of perhaps
    the slipperiest politician this side of Beacon Hill. 
    
    

    
    Because a Federal grant program includes funding only for 
    drug sniffing _dogs_, Al Gore has issued a proclamation 
    declaring that drug sniffing _pigs_ are now dogs.
    
    

    
    Paul Hill is to be executed twice for the clinic murders.

>    Paul Hill is to be executed twice for the clinic murders.

I'd like to see that.

	Maybe they can kill him, quickly ressusatate (sp) him and
then do it again..............%^)	I want to be there.

    
    re .284, the so-called "Republican" actually became an
    "Independent", not a Dem.
    
    

           (did I get this 'un before Binder?  HappyHappyJoyJoy!!)
    

    .286 et seq.
    
    they could really execute him twice.  guillotine him, slap him on the
    cheek till he woke up, then electrocute the still-living head.  they'd
    need to be fast, but it is doable.

That would sorta lend a whole new meaning to the phrase "Cruel and unusual".

    Could I knit while it's happening?
    
    (Though one must admit that Ms. of_the_houses is more ethnically
     & genderially correct in that r�le...)
    

Libert�, Egalit�, Fraternit�, and a knish?

    > Could I knit while it's happening?
    
    can you knit at any other time?

    Waal, if'n I've broken a bone & it's been splinted...  but that's the
    extent of it.
    
    However, I *can* play the violin...   NOT!
    

    in that case, you can't knit while they execute him twice.

    
    Hillary C. will co-head a new effort to get Americans to lose weight.

    
    An oil rig will be placed in HMtheQ's garden at Windsor Park 
    

    New Snarf

    
    Re: Paul Hill,
    
    I heard that in addition to the two DEATH sentences he has received for
    the murders, he has also received two LIFE sentences for violating the
    federal clinic protection law.
    

    .301
    
    nema problema.  he can stay in stir as long as he lives.

    Since Hillary is getting in the "weight loss" business wonder if
    she'll get one of those Susan Powter hair cuts? :-)
    

    
    A bank robbery in progress at a downtown SF BofA branch results 
    in shots fired and a suspect holed up with a grenade - Market St 
    bet. 4th and 5th.
    
    Grenades are of course illegal to posess without a permit.
    
    
    

    have they asked the suspect if he has a permit for his grenade?

Note 14.298 by CALDEC::RAH 
    
    >>Hillary C. will co-head a new effort to get Americans to lose weight.
    
    oh, this ought to be good. something like half of americans are
    overweight and the witch is gonna do something about it? just wait.
    maybe she'll come up with a plan to nationalize the jenny craig centers
    and expand the service to every city in the US. i'd be much happier if
    she just disappeard and wrote a cookie baking book.

    
    re the bank robbery, reports are that a assault weapon was involved.
    
    Dianne will doubtless be on the air shortly.

    >>Hillary C. will co-head a new effort to get Americans to lose weight.
    
    Oh good... maybe Hillsbury will describe the proper way to eschew
    a cookie.
    
    Chris

    
    Maybe she can show us all how to use a "Thigh-Master"
    

    I would guess that she is wholly unaware of their existence... if ya
    know what I mean, and I think you do.

    
    If somebody gives me an "aerobics with Hillary" video for the
    holidays, I promise to dress up in silly cloths and perform
    silly repetitive motions as long as she will.  I figure this will
    improve my health by keeping her away from US Healthcare policy.
    
      bb

    If Mr. Hill had been convicted in NY, Gov. Cuomo would probably have
    insisted that he serve the life sentence first :^)

Re: <<< Note 14.308 by CALDEC::RAH "the truth is out there." >>>
    
>>    re the bank robbery, reports are that a assault weapon was involved.

Weilded by the police or the perp?

                           Roak

    
    wielded by le perp.
    
    btw, the grenades turned out to be dummies. 
    

    Not to mention the perp...

    
    also, the perp was shot at least 50 times.
    
    police dept is making inquiries into the incident,
    to determine why.

RE:          <<< Note 14.317 by CALDEC::RAH "the truth is out there." >>>

    
   > also, the perp was shot at least 50 times.
    
   > police dept is making inquiries into the incident,
   > to determine why.



    It'll be interesting to hear that one..



 Jim

    
    also, turns out that the guy had no gun. only the dummy
    grenades.
     
    apparently, all the shooting was done by the cahps.
    
    

    > also, the perp was shot at least 50 times.
    
    So, is he dead? :-) :-)

    faulty wiring in a christmas tree at the mass state house resulted in a
    fire that caused $250,000 worth of damage. the fire started in, of all
    places, the office of senate president billy (super hack) bulger.
    
    
    

    Well there it is then -- he'll CERTAINLY need a pay-raise now.  Devious
    little bugger, Bulger...
    

    I can't imagine any number of officer's on any police force hitting
    their target 50 times... At least the same target.  :-)

    
    
    news blub says that binge drinking is on the rise on college campuses
    across the country.
    
    excuse me, but when did it stop???
    
    it seems that parents will soon be able to buy bonds for their
    children's college education which will lock them into the going rate
    at the time of the purchase of the bonds.
    
    and spike lee is the proud papa of a baby girl
    and gloria estefan gave birth to baby girl earlier this week
    
    
    chet, nat, back to you in the studio...
    
    
    

    
    More posturing and whining all over DC.  There will be a month of this.
    
    BC addressed the DLC in a defiant (and excellent) speech, but could
    not help a double-whine : (1) that he is just a poor misunderstood
    centrist moderate whom the press and the Republicans have libelled;
    (2) that the Republicans are all talk, no action.
    
    Meanwhile, Jesse Helms managed to whine in a Carolina accent about
    how he is just a poor good ol' boy misreported by media elitists.
    
    Panetta whined that Gingrich was acting so much like an out-of-control
    talk-show host that he doubted he could deal or negotiate with him.
    To which Gingrich replied, in effect, nonsense - I'm going to be
    Speaker, and if he doesn't deal with me, what is he planning on doing
    as White House chief of staff the next two years.
    
    The Republican transition team in the Senate had another press update.
    They are trying to match Newt in congressional cost-cutting.  Sen.
    Gregg disassociated himself from "orphanages", saying he thought the
    state of New Hampshire could provide for its own indigent children if
    the feds would leave them alone, including Clinton and Gingrich.
    
    Bickering levels are on the rise, and will till January 4, I bet.
    
      bb

    
    was amazed last night at the inability of a CNN analyst (Schneider) to
    pinpoint why BC is so unpopular.  more amazed at his clear defense of
    the president and his record.  the media is so out of touch.
    
    jeff

>    it seems that parents will soon be able to buy bonds for their
>    children's college education which will lock them into the going rate
>    at the time of the purchase of the bonds.

Are any more details available as to exactly what's proposed?

>                      <<< Note 14.326 by USAT05::BENSON >>>
>                         -< CNN-Control News Network >-
>
>    
>    was amazed last night at the inability of a CNN analyst (Schneider) to
>    pinpoint why BC is so unpopular.  more amazed at his clear defense of
>    the president and his record.  the media is so out of touch.
>    
>    jeff


Are they "out of touch" or are they just trying to repeat it so often that
it becomes "fact"??  There are quite a few 'BOXers here that have bought 
Baron Munchausen's message!

Bruce

    
    You have to specify the college the child will attend at the time you
    buy the bonds.  If the child does not attend that college, you get your
    money back.  

    
    Well, Lloyd Benson did resign yesterday.  Robert Rubin will be
    nominated a replacement.  Supposedly, he told Clinton he wouldn't
    stay 4 years at the beginning of 1993, around the time of his
    appointment.
    
    Now all Clinton has left is Panetta and the kids.  Not good.  It was
    Benson who got Dole on the GATT train.  Who will talk to Congress now ?
    
      bb

re: the college bonds thing

If your child doesn't attend/can't get accepted at the school you chose,
do you get back the current tuition (or proper proportional part) at said
institution? Does the kid get "points towards acceptance" by virtue of
having held a place in line all his life?

    Nobel Prize winning economist Milton Friedman has argued that if
    we got the government out of the higher education business, and allowed
    market forces back in the equation, a college education with tuition,
    room, board, sports, etc. would "average" $13K per year.
    
    Sounds to me that THAT's the approach to be used -- not all this
    dithering about "tuition prepayment" (which is a crazy sort of
    insurance, isn't it?)
    

	yes, never say benson when referring to bentsen. no need to insult the
guy. I mean, one can work WITH others.....
    

    >> faulty wiring in a christmas tree at the mass state house resulted in a
    >> fire that caused $250,000 worth of damage. the fire started in, of all
    >> places, the office of senate president billy (super hack) bulger.
    
    "Faulty wiring", my left cheek!  :-)  Bulger should interpret this
    for what it is, a Sign from "upstairs", regarding this sleazy back-door
    55% pay raise affair.
    
    Teevee news happened to be on my TV (a rare event, but at least
    it was New England Cable News), and when they started to cover
    this story I looked up from my reading and saw the mess and Bulger's
    reaction.  I have to admit, I cackled like a demented bird.  Sometimes
    you just gotta take your payback where you can get it.
    
    Chris

    
|   I have to admit, I cackled like a demented bird.
    
    This is a news brief?
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    RE: idjut
    
    

    >    > also, the perp was shot at least 50 times.
    
    >    So, is he dead? :-) :-)
    
    
    No.  Fortunately the cops were using 9mm ammo.

>news blub says that binge drinking is on the rise on college
>campuses across the country.
    
    Back when I went to college, we didn't have elevators...
    
    Also, where do I get a news blub?
    
    
    

    
    shut up mike.
    
    
    :>
    
    
    

    > No.  Fortunately the cops were using 9mm ammo.
    
    So what the heck did you go and buy one of them for?
    Yer old lady is packing a .357, and your screwing around with the
    small stuff.

An Israeli man who was jailed in 1962 for refusing to agree to divorce
his wife (Israeli law requires both parties to consent) has died in
prison, freeing his wife from a disastrous marriage.

Despite frequent declarations of her hatred of her deceased husband,
the 66-year-old widow is observing the ritual seven days of mourning.

/john

    >>           -< Only an idjut would find delight in a fire.... >-
    
    I find delight in the irony, which is a different matter.
    I love irony.  And what could be more ironic, and a more
    fitting and appropriate response to Bulger's recent tactics,
    than to have his very Christmas tree spontaneously burst into
    flame?  How perfectly symbolic.
    
    Tasteless?... possibly, but I don't care.  No one was hurt,
    so my priorities switched to my love for the ironic.
    
    
    >> This is a news brief?
    
    It's a reaction to a news brief, which is certainly not uncommon
    in this topic, unless the rules have changed.
    
    Chris

    >Despite frequent declarations of her hatred of her deceased husband,
    >the 66-year-old widow is observing the ritual seven days of mourning.
    
    ...as per court order.
    
    DougO
    

    
    good case against theocracy in my view.

    or against paternalistic chauvinism

    In MD, the Governor's was was certified by election officials although
    there are still legal hurdles.  Democrat Parris Glendening narrowing
    beat Republican Ellen Sauerbrey.  Mrs. Sauerbrey has contested the
    elctions results since the election.  Out of more than 3 million
    voters, she lost by less than 6,100 votes.  She won every county in
    Maryland except for Montgomery County, Prince George's County and
    Baltimore City.  
    
    In Baltimore City, where the alleged voting irregularities occurred,
    votes were recorded from addresses where buildings were boarded up and
    vacant.  The reputed number of disputed ballots total over 10,000.
    
    Even a prominent Democratic State Senator has said that he believes
    Mrs. Sauerbrey's protests have merit.
    
    As a side note, the new County Executive for PG County was sworn in
    Monday and disclosed that the previous administration had left a budget
    shortfall of over $ 100 Million.  The former PG County executive is
    none other than the governor-elect, Parris Glendening.
    
    
    From 12/7/94 Baltimore SUN

    OJ's White Bronco is on the block for a cool $200,000.  This is the
    actual vehicle that was test driven by Al and OJ one summer evening on
    national TV.  Guess that buys for OJ Shapiro and crew for another week.
    
    A Ford Spokesperson said that Bronco sales have risen 4 fold since
    June, 1994 and White Bronco's need to be specially ordered.
    
    What a crazy society we live in.

    
    Fed chairman Greenspan was wheedled/cajoled/roasted by a joint
    committee of the dead 103rd Congress yesterday.  He refused to
    say where interest rates were going.  Sphynx.  One congressman
    went on and on with some sob story from a constituent who's
    been repeatedly whipswawed.  Greenspan said it was very touching
    but as Fed Chairman he was bound to silence by statutory charter.
    
    What an exercise in futility.
    
      bb

RE: 14.349 by GAAS::BRAUCHER

> What an exercise in futility.


Only if you think interest rates should be set by a committe of Congress.


Phil

    If Americans saved more, we'd have low interests rates as a permanent
    state of affairs.
    
    

    Reducing the deficit wouldn't hurt.

    I like deficit reduction via economic growth and spending reductions --
    and more saving would contribute to the former.

    
    Orange Co CA files for bankruptcy, appartently some faro dealers
    have been punting in the deriviatives markets.

    
    But CAN you file for moral bankruptcy ?  bb
    

    
    movement to recall Assemblyman Horcher moves speedily ahead
    headed up by Pete Schabarum (former El Ley Co. supe), the
    spear carrier for the term limits initiative (prop 140).
    
    his district is a safe GOP one btw.
    
    Willie knew in advance of Horcher's vote, gee what a suprise.

    
    Mr and Ms Arafat are expecting.

    
    i know what the receiving blanket will look like.
    
    jeff

  Yassar, that's my baby

    
    someone brought 150 lbs of explosive on board a bus in China
    destined for a fireworks factory.
    
    obviously it didn't get there. two dozen killed.

    
    >Mr and Ms Arafat are expecting.
    
    my ma used to say there someone for everyone. but who on earth would
    want to call yassir darlin??

    Omigosh, imagine some poor kid lookin' like Yasser :-(
    
    

    >Mr and Ms Arafat are expecting.
    
    Expecting it to go off?

    
    	I guess they can name him Yitztak.  
    
    	Na, guess that wouldn't go over well.

    re: Police shooting in SF
    
    Speculation is that the incident was a police-assisted suicide.  

    
    US Army is dissolving the Sixth Army, vacating the Presidio of SF 
    forever.
    
    City officials are whining that the 480 troops stationed there 
    should stay to help in case of another eathquake.
    
    Wonder what good 480 office jockeys would do..?

    Re; "filing for moral bankruptcy" No. I believe you get that tattoo
    from an objective committee comprised of pious and sanctimonious
    *repubs... At least that's what I've heard.
    
    Chip
    
    
    
    * See Eye of Newt

    After Arafat's child is brought into the world, observers may be saying
    "What's that Yitzak?"

    
    James Brown, the Godfather of Soul, has been arrested for
    assaulting his wife again.

    obviously a quick learner

    
    two girls, 14 and 19, beat a 77 year old woman to death in
    her Chicago apartment, then stole her cash and jewelry and 
    bought Xmas presents for their friends.
    
    police say that the pair showed no remorse.

    albany, ny, college student found to have been beaten by her own
    father.  she had claimed the assailant was a black man, and her father
    ahd stood next to her looking concerned while she was interviewed.

    Anent .373: That's the spirit 8^(

    re .374
    
    Family Values in action

    RE: 14.367
    
    I guess they could play valet to Gorbachev, since his "Green Cross"
    organization is headquartered there...
    
    

.376>    Family Values in action
    
    	Now what's that supposed to mean, Meg?  Or are you just looking for 
    	any fabricated dig against Family Values that you can concoct?

    No Joe,
    
    The young woman was defending her father from charges for beating her. 
    Isn't that honoring a parent?  
    
    meg

    of course, the fact that she is just another in the long line of people
    falsely accusing a generic black man means nothing, right?

	no, that's being enslaved by thy parent....

    
    
    Fear doth not honor make....
    

    
    J Elders the Surgeon General has resigned.

    	really?

	I had to step back to read that one.... :-)

    
    just heard it on the radio.

    
    Did they say why?

	Verrrrrrry interesting.....

	Time for Paul Harvey and the rest of *that* story.

    
    Yes !  Oooooo, yes !  Ding, dong, the wicked...
    
      bb

    
    Santa Barbara man, 40, killed by a great white off Sam Miquel Is.
    

    Conservative editorial cartoonists will be crying in their beer
    tonight.
    
    ;^)

    
    
    Maybe cause of the letter I put in in the Jokes note???
    
    :) :)
    

    
    Just makes him look more like he didn't know what he was doing in the
    first place...
    

    
    McDonald's toilet cited in N.Y suit
    
    Clifton Park, N.Y. - A New York woman has sued the former owner of a
    McDonald's in Clifton Park, seeking $600,000 for injuries she allegedy
    suffered falling off a toilet in the restuarant's bathroom, the Albany
    Times-Union reported yesterday. Michelle Verdicchio of Clifton Park
    says in the lawsuit that an unsteady toilet in the handicapped stall of
    the McDonald's caused her to be thrown into the wall. Verdicchio
    alleges that she injuerd her arm, shoulder and chest and suffered
    anxiety and emotional distress, the newspaper said.(AP)

    
    was she handicapped??
    
    ( i mean, if she wasn't, she shouldn't have been using that toilet...)
    
    

    
    That's got to be one pretty darn wobbly toilet if it threw her into a
    wall...

    
    Sorry raq... that's the whole article... no mention of any handicap...
    
    I wonder how different this is for a woman who has a man in the house
    who always leaves the toilet seat up?
    
    Any anziety and emotional stress there? Naaaaah... I doubt it... nobody
    to sue...
    

    
    Emotional distress for falling off a toilet?
    
    Doesn't anyone have a sense of humour any more?  Cripes, if I fell off
    a toilet I'll prolly wee myself laughing.
                          

    and now for a brief...
    
    SNARF!

    I thought emotional distress and anxiety relating to the toilet was
    supposed to end once potty training was complete...
    
    -b

    She should be fined for brining up such a stupid lawsuit.  Another
    "victim" (or her own clumsiness, most likely).
    
    Sad.

    
    Imagine Barry White sayin' "Big Ass Ham".
    
    

    Reuters:
    
    "President Clinton has fired his outspoken surgeon general, Joycelyn
    [sic] Elders, after she said masturbation should be taught to school
    children..."

    
    "... (Clinton) said her views differed from administration policy."

    
    <snif> <smirk> <snghhh>
    
    ...   BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAAAAAAW HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Another hot coffee suit... Some 18 yr old is suing Taco Bell for
    much donero. This crap kills me

    
    Yelstin is giving his soldiers a way to feel useful by sending 
    them to fight Chechen wildmen in the Caucasus. 
    
    3 columns of armor and motor rifle troops are outside Grozny 
    (I think the name means "wild" or "untamed" in the local dialect).
    
    one column was fired on by Ingush with MG and RPGs, several trucks 
    were left burning and 50 Russians captured.  a battle for an oil
    refinery near the city is shaping up, meanwhile the leaders attempt
    to restart negociations in the Russian city of Vladikavkaz.
    
    Afghanistan II is now underway..

re: .407, Chip

>    Another hot coffee suit... Some 18 yr old is suing Taco Bell for
>    much donero. This crap kills me

The courts could stop this if they wanted to. All it takes is for some
judge with sufficient intestinal fortitude to tell the next plaintiff
and his attorney that they're daft, he's awarding them the price of
the coffee, and that he'll work to have the attorney disbarred and
the plaintiff incarcerated for contempt if they ever darken his door
again. Then every other judge faced with such a frivolous complaint
only needs to hold that decision up as precedent.

    <- Couldn't agree with you more! In fact, legislation should be
       enacted and fines imposed on plaintiffs and lawyers who are
       found guilty of same...
    
       Chip

This would then be George's cue to enter from the left and wax eloquently
as to why we're wrong to try to hobble the courts.

    ...speaking of george - where is he?

    Grozhny means "Fierce" in Russian.

    
    one PC maker has stopped using Intel Pentiums in its systems.
    
    INTC shows $ Change      : -2.750       % Change    : -4.38
    

    there is a new cable channel in south carolina called fish tv.  seems
    that while a regular channel was offline, a cable server focused a tv
    camera on their 55-gallon aquarium with 12 fish in it.  when the reg-
    ular channel came back after a few days, people called in demanding a
    return of the fish - so the server added it as a new channel.

    	IBM has announced that it will stop shipping computers with the
    INTEL Pentium Chip.

    re .407
    
    For what ???

re: fish Teevee

Sheesh. And I can't get my local monopoly to even carry some of the bonafide
channels . . . 

    
    The new thingy is the "middle class taxcut".  Clinton, Gingrich,
    Gephart are all aboard.  Wheeee !  Can you say, "Reagonomics" ?
    
      :-)  bb
    

   I contemplated putting this into the "Wacky News Briefs" topic, but
    figured this would suffice....    
    
    
    'Super-sized' activists argue small seats hurt the bottom line
    
    
    KNIGHT-RIDDER SERVICE
    
    Santa Cruz, Calif. - All derriers are no created alike, say a group pf
    fat activists who have launched a campaign to equip Santa Cruz movie
    theaters with special seats for people of plumpness.
    
      The problem, says Mary Atkins, a 300-pound film buff, is that
    squishing everything into those one-size-fits-all movie seats can be a
    pain in the... well you get the picture.
    
      "It's like when you go to school for a parent conference and sit in a
    children's chair," says Atkins, a 51-year-old grandmother. "That's what
    movie theaters are like for the super-sized."
    
      Atkins is a board member of the Body Image Task Force, a Santa Cruz
    group devoted to "consciousness raising on the issues of looksism and
    fatphobia," according to its statement of purpose. Since August, the
    group has pressured builders of multiscreen movie houses in downtown
    Santa Cruz.

    <- I wonder what the icon will be at the movie theaters to direct
       the gravitationally challenged to these special perches...
    
       A large buttered perhaps?  :-)
    
       Chip

    
    ..."looksism"???
    
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! {gasp}
    
    
    Hmm 8^).

Literacy study: 50% of grads miss bus

ASSOCIATED PRESS

  Washington - College graduates generally are more literate than high school 
graduates, but most nevertheless would have trouble understanding a bus 
schedule or writing to a creditor about a billing error, a new report says.

  Although the United States prides itself on having the best system of higher 
education in the world, literacy levels among graduates vary widely, according 
to a report release Friday by the Educational Testing Service of Princeton, 
N.J.

  42 percent of college graduates participating in a study were able to write 
about an argument made in a long newspaper article or contrast the views 
expressed in two editorials about technologies available to make fuel-efficient 
cars.

  11 percent of four-year graduates and 4 percent of two-year graduates 
reached the highest levels of literacy, where they were likely to be successful 
at summarizing two ways lawyers may challenge prospective jurors.

  Half could not read a bus schedule or use a pamphlet to calculate the yearly 
amount a couple would receive in supplemental security income.

  College graduates "are certainly more literate, on average, than those who 
do not go to college or do not graduate," the report said, "but their levels 
of literacy range from a lot less than impressive to mediocre to 
near-alarming.

    lookseism
    

    RE: IBM and Pentium
    
    Intel had a longish ad on TV last night pushing Pentiums.  Things that
    make you go Hmmm.
    
    Brian
    

So IBM's stopped selling them and Intel is saying IBM is incorrect and over
reactive. This should make for a fine pissing contest. I hope we're properly
poised to be selling AXP's to the spectators in the meantime.

    not only has ibm stopped selling pentiums, but ibm has joined hp in
    offering a no-cost replacement in any of their products.
    
    let us not forget that ibm has the powerpc up-and-coming as well as
    another chip, hotter yet, in the works, and would stand to make hay by
    dissing pentium.

    
    not to mention that they are licensed to produce 486en.

    
    the russians continue to deny that they are attacking as they
    attack.
    
    saw a photo of one of the chechen dudes, on his horse (no saddle or 
    stirrups!), his Tokarev SVT rifle held in one (1!) hand (what wrist 
    strength!),  in his  cloak and astraknan, huge moustache, and a fierce 
    scowl upon his face.
    
    a tableau from czarist times. yeltsin is sending draftees against
    these guys, so baad they name their capital "fierce:"? 

    re: .420
    
    Sound like their time would be better spent jogging/exercising, rather
    than lobbying.  If they did this for long enough, the point would
    become moot.  8^)
    
    -steve

    
    Associated Press, 12/13/94
    
    "A confidential Justice Department study of a deadly 1992 standoff in
     Idaho between white separatist Randy Weaver and federal agents found
     that SENIOR (my emphasis) officials violated no only their own
     policies but also the Constitution when they relaxed the rules that 
     govern when federal agents may shoot a suspect..."
    
    Apparently, taking Randy Weaver's wife's head off was UnConstitutional.

    
    
    
    But didn't you hear, it was an accident.  
    
    Hit her friggin dead between the eyes and it was an accident.  Yeah,
    right.

    (un)Lucky shot?  Seriously, I would prefer that the members of the BATF
    involved lose, their jobs and their freedoms for this.  
    
    meg

         <<< Note 14.433 by CSC32::M_EVANS "My other car is a kirby" >>>

>    (un)Lucky shot?  Seriously, I would prefer that the members of the BATF
>    involved lose, their jobs and their freedoms for this.  
 
	These were FBI Hostage Rescue Team members, not ATF. ATF screwed up	
	the OTHER one. THEN the FBI completed the foulup.

	Getting hard to tell the murderers without a program.
   
    	As for the shot, HRT snipers are required to demonstrate the ability
	to place 3 shots into a 1/4" group at 100 yards, ie one ragged hole
	considering that they use bullets that are .308" wide.

	Also note that Director Freeh did not disclose what, if any,
	disciplinary action would be taken against those involved.
	But if it's any indication, the agent in charge of the operation
	was promoted recently to Deputy Director.

Jim

    
    	Talk about the pot calling the kettle black:
    
    	Associated Press, 12/13/94
    
    	"Waco - Federal agents involved in the failed 1993 raid on a
    	 religious sect's heavily armed compound are seeking to join a
    	 lawsuit against news media members and an ambulance company.
    	 The lawsuit, one of many such suits pending, alleges that 
    	 employees from the Waco Tribune-Herald, KWTX-TV of Waco,
    	 and American Medical Transport ambulance service conspired to
    	 cause the shootout to get better news stories. The newspaper,
    	 television station, and ambulance company have denied the claims.
    	 The 49 BATF agents seeking to join the suit were injured OR
    	 SAID THEY SUFFERED EMOTIONAL DISTRESS during the shootout at
    	 the Branch Davidians' home at Mount Carmel."
    
    	I can hear it now : "Those evil ambulance drivers and reporters
    	made me pull the trigger. I couldn't help myself.  I was so 
    	mentally distraught that I torched all those children to save
    	them."
    
    	What sick, deluded people.... |^O

    Another American Eagle Express crashed, about 30 minutes ago, near the
    Raleigh Airport, 18 on board.  Not stated yet whether it was one those
    French jobbies.
    
    -- Jim

It was not.  British plane.

/john

  A Jetstream....10 dead if I heard correctly.  




 Jim

    
    
    14 confirmed dead and 5 known survivors as of early this morning.
    
    
    Mike

    * In November, New York City police arrested the city's most
      notorious scofflaw, Leroy Linen, 41, after he inadvertently
      gave his real when he was stopped for having only a crude
      hand-lettered license plate on his car. Linen's license
      had been suspended 633 times since 1990; when police entered 
      his name into their computer, it took an hour and 45 minutes
      to print out all of his traffic violations. Still at large
      in the city are 340 others who have had their licenses sus-
      pended more than 100 times.
    
    * In march, in Stinson Beach, Ca, as publicity for his year-long 
      campaign to collect enough brassieres to string across the
      Grand Canyon, the conceptual artist Ronnie Nicolino, along with
      200 volunteers, created a two-mile-long sand sculpture consisting
      of 21,000 size 34C breasts. Nicolino denied he is obsessed with
      breasts. "In my case, it's not that serious," he said. "I can be
      detached enough to at least be an observer."

    -1
    
    Nicolino - yes ! my kind of guy

    
    from today's Washinton Times
    
    
    MOTHER SHOOTS INTRUDER
    Saves daughters from knife-wielding assailant
    
    A Northwest woman thwarted an apparent kidnapping when she shot a knife
    wielding attacker as he fought with two of her daughters yesterday
    morning.
    
    Darryl Burton, 26, was in serious condition and under guard at the
    Washington Hospital Center late yesterday.  Police charged him with
    first degree burglary, and he will be arraigned in D.C. Superior Court
    when he recovers from the gunshot wounds to the head, chest and groin.
    
    Police say Mr. Burton and a teen aged roommate broke into the row house
    in Petworth to kidnap sisters Esther and Vicki Griffin, who witnessed
    an assault two months ago.
    
    But the two women; a third sister, Laquanda Turner; and their mother,
    Rebecca Griffin, fended off the assailants during a brutal battle that
    saw the mother tumble down the stairs with Mr. Burton before she ran
    for a hidden revolver and shot him 4 times.
    
    
    

    .442
    Good for her...but she will probably be sued for using excessive force
    and lose everthing she ever owned.

    
    
    The article goes on to say that the assailant wrestled the gun away
    from her and she got it back.  There were two mistakes in this scenario
    that I see, but these ladies should be commended.  The mistakes (as I
    see them) are: 1) Wrong ammo, they needed something that would do a
    little more damage especially in this cal. weapon.  2) She let the
    attacker get to close and get the gun away.  
    
    
    Mike

re:                       <<< Note 14.443 by MAIL2::CRANE >>>

I sincerely hope you're wrong, but I fear you are not.

Mike - if you read/hear anymore regarding this, such as a citizen's group
putting together a defense fund for her in the event that she needs to
be prepared to fight a suit, please let us know. I for one would be happy
to contribute to help see the scumbag Burton thwarted in any such efforts.

    .445
    Please put me on that list as well. She should get a medal and I
    certainly agree with her actions. I, too, hope that I am wrong.

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
     
    Serious:
    
    I did not see anything about losing the gun to the assailant and yes I
    too agree she should commended.
    
    Not so Serious:
    
    As for the size 34Cs, this individual is clearly sick and a sex addict
    most likely from his folks teaching him about the horrors of the "m"
    word.  We should pray for this individual so that he may be healed from
    his affiliction.  No doubt he was also exposed (oo-er) to all sorts of
    pornography like the SI swimsuit issue and <GASP!> Playboy at a young
    age.  I just hope the NEA did not grant any funds to support this 
    activity.  
    
    Brian

    west coast in a blackout...country STILL survives.

    
    How can you tell ?  The people out there turn clueless ?
    
      bb

    
    no blackout here. seattle and montana mostly.
    
    i heard that they broadcast messages in montana
    telling folks to wrap up in blankets, since the
    temps were avg. 5F. 
    
    they need a sigalert to tell them that they are 
    cold , i guess..
    

    
    home invasion in san jose, woman sexally assaulted by
    four men in their twenties.
    
    

    .440, .441
    
    And I was told in childhood that the sandman didn't exist.
    
    

    
    huge train wreck in the tejon pass, san bernardino co.
    
    chymycyls still afire hours later.
    

    >>west coast in a blackout...country STILL survives.
    
    how this was handled by NBC nooz this AM is a clear indication of just
    how much you should really believe what they feed you. NBC came on with
    a USA map and had blacked out everything west of the rockies and said
    a massive, undetermined total blackout had occured on the west coast.
    my wife sat up and exclaimed "this is no accident, someone is messing
    with our country". i told her yes, our worst enemy was messing with us.
    the USA press corps, jumping to histerical lengths for ratings. i also
    told her to watch, they won't apologize for the "scare" tactics when
    the truth is disclosed. i was right.

    Radio news yesterday morning reported that Mexico is wrestling with
    an immigration problem... with too many illegal immigrants trying to
    *enter* Mexico from other countries, mostly from countries to its south,
    but also from as far away as India.
    
    To deal with the problem, Mexico has deported over 3,300 illegals
    "recently", but I either didn't hear the time period involved or
    I've forgotten it.
    
    Chris

    Also for the "Non-Box Pot & Kettle Note":
    
    Michael Keaton, who portrayed Batman in two films over the last few
    years, has recently come out strongly against Violence in Movies,
    how it's affecting society, should be controlled, and so on.
    
    Chris

| <<< Note 14.450 by CALDEC::RAH "the truth is out there." >>>



| i heard that they broadcast messages in montana telling folks to wrap up in 
| blankets, since the temps were avg. 5F.

	Gee, send out a message over the airwaves when there is no
electricity.... :-)


Glen

| <<< Note 14.456 by DECWIN::RALTO "Suffering from p/n writer's block" >>>


| Michael Keaton, who portrayed Batman in two films over the last few years, has
| recently come out strongly against Violence in Movies, how it's affecting 
| society, should be controlled, and so on.


translation : he's pissed that they wouldn't pay him the money he wanted

    The good folks in Montana don't need the festering scumbags at NBC
    to tell 'em to wrap themselves in a blanket. Surprised though that
    the news folks even new it was 5F outside; seeing as they all
    seem to have their thermometers permanently wedged eslewhere.
    
    -b

| <<< Note 14.459 by CAPNET::ROSCH >>>


| "Unfortunately, fish have only one pair of eyes." [Edmonton
| Sun-Reuter, 4-7-94; Wall Street Journal, Apr94]

	Bart caught a 3 eyed fish down by the Nuclear Power Plant in
Springfield! 

You beat me to it Glen. :^)I was going to suggest that the Nuclear Regulatory
Agencies could correct that deficiency.

	Ahh, good old Blinky, the 3-eyed fish.

	joanne

    
    Paul Txongas nominates Colin Powell to head up a great new
    passionate centrist pahty.

    Gene,
    
    You're correct on the "black-out" being over-blown.  Just talked
    to an MCS rep in Cal. (310) area code.  She didn't know anything
    about a blackout.
    
    

    It's not overblown there were 7 western states effected... however not
    the entire state.

         A moment of silent masturbation to be introduced in schools.

        

    Oh, come off it!

    
    Source: Times Of India, New York, December 12, 1994 
    
    N-powered Submarine Being Built: Ex-AEC Chief
    
    >From News Dispatches
    
    NEW DELHI: Top nuclear expert Dr. Srinivasan has confirmed that India
    is building a nuclear-powered submarine, despite government claims that
    its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes.
    
    The project is being designed by the Atomic Energy Department, the
    Defense Ministry and the Navy, Srinivasan, who was chairman of the
    Atomic Energy Commission from 1987 to 1992, stated.  "The nuclear
    establishment has not taken the country into confidence," Srinivasan
    wrote in The Hindu last week.  The submarine project in Visakhapatnam
    was code-named Advanced Technology Vehicle to avoid suspicion, he
    said.  A facility has been built on land for testing the submarine
    reactor, he wrote, and India also was producing enriched uranium to
    fuel the submarine's reactor and making other components and equipment.
    
    The country's nuclear program remains secretive and government
    officials declined to comment on Srinivasan's article, which was the
    first confirmation of the project by a senior scientist.  Speculation
    has been rife since a lower-level scientist, Buddhikota Subba Rao, went
    public this year after his own design for a reactor was rejected.
    
    India conducted a nuclear test in 1974, and has 10 nuclear power
    plants,
    but asserted that it has never pursued a nuclear weapons program and
    its expertise was being applied only for generating power and research.
    
    New Delhi refuses to sign the nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, arguing
    that it must maintain a nuclear option to counter China's arsenal and
    Pakistan's capability to assemble a weapon.  The United States has been
    trying to open atomic laboratories in India and Pakistan to
    international inspection to check proliferation and the risk of a
    nuclear conflict in the region.  Jasjit Singh, director of the
    government-funded Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses, said the
    development of a nuclear submarine would not violate the NPT because it
    did not involve nuclear bombs. "This is not using nuclear technology
    for weapons purposes," he said.
    
    In the late 1980s New Delhi invested heavily in expanding its deep
    water naval capability in the Indian Ocean. A nuclear-powered submarine
    can stay under water and can sail farther than conventional ones.
    

    
    a military Learjet crashed into a crowded intersection of Fresno
    this morning. 
    
    no word of casualties.

RE: .467



	Where is this story coming from?

        An ejaculation,  I  believe  ...  from a small radio station in
        eMission Valley, San Diego.
        
        

	This topic gets me excited....

     >>    A moment of silent masturbation to be introduced in schools.

    
    i haven't laughed this hard in YEARS!!!
        

    -.1 absolutely classic...

Construction of the world's largest hydroelectric dam officially began
yesterday, marked by a ceremony attended by Chinese Premier Li Peng.

    
    the enviros should approve, after all they'd otherwize need
    to burn more coal and hasten global warming and increase
    pollution, or else build more politically incorrect nuke 
    plants.
    

    the enviros disapprove because it will destroy millions of acres of
    habitat.  it will also displace roughly one MILLION people, who will
    require resettlement elsewhere, destroying millions more acres of
    habitat.  word is that this will be an ecological disaster.

    
    So? What else can they do besides spit into the wind when it comes to
    dealing with China??
    

Hey, isn't anyone going to comment on my witty title (stolen from the WSJ)?
It's the only reason I put the note in here.

OK.

"Hey - some title there, Gerald!"

    Damn I missed it.

Thanks Jack.

>>It's the only reason I put the note in here.

	i knew dat.

    
    let 'em freeze in the dark, then eh?

    This private mailbox company is about three doors down from my DEC
    office at 529 Bryant street...Just Desserts, mentioned in the article,
    is next door to us.
    
    DougO
    -----
Tear-gas incident in Palo Alto baffles police

By John Woolfolk

Mercury News Staff Writer

    Palo Alto police were mystified Wednesday about why someone had planted
    a tear  gas canister in the lobby of a private mail company Monday
    night, sending a cloud of  noxious fumes billowing over downtown and
    leading emergency crews to evacuate a 15-block area for 3 1/2 hours.

    Police are continuing to investigate the mysterious incident at Mail
    Boxes Etc.  on Bryant Street, which seriously injured a bystander.
    Investigators have no suspects or  possible motives in the case, Sgt.
    Dennis Burns said, and they don't believe the incident  was a prank.

    ``It's a weird case,'' Burns said. ``I don't know why someone would
    want to do  this.''

    Burns said the gas -- the same compound found in Mace and used by riot
    police -- came from a gray ``military-style'' canister with a red
    strip. The device is not  available to the public and is illegal to
    own, he said. It ignites in seconds after it is set  off by pulling a
    pin and releasing a lever, or ``spoon,'' he said.

    Emergency crews found the canister on the floor of the store lobby,
    which  contains about 300 mailboxes that customers can open after hours
    with a key. The device was  near a gate that separates the lobby from
    the store's locked office, he said. The store  was closed at the time,
    and the person who planted the canister is believed to have used a  key
    or followed a customer in.

    Susan Murai was sipping coffee with a friend down the block at Just
    Desserts  cafe when the canister went off. Moments later, her friend,
    Aretha Lawrence, was gasping  for air. Lawrence was hospitalized for
    respiratory distress triggered by the gas.

    ``We were all sitting there blowing our noses and having scratchy
    throats and  thinking we were all getting colds,'' Murai said. ``We
    were having coffee and discussing the  world and how wild things have
    become, how it's sad no one can leave their doors  unlocked anymore.

    ``Someone said something about gas and then the firemen came in and
    said,  `Everyone out now!' People were yelling and running. It was
    freaky when you didn't know  what it was and could feel it burning in
    your nose and throat.''

    Lawrence, 43, who is active in several East Palo Alto community groups,
    was  breathing on her own and showing stable vital signs Tuesday, a
    spokeswoman at Stanford University Hospital said. Hospital officials
    said Lawrence suffers from asthma  but would not elaborate on her
    condition.

    Seven other people were treated for tear-gas related symptoms,
    including two  police officers and four firefighters.

    Palo Alto firefighters who responded to a smoke investigation entered
    the store  by smashing a window, but retreated when they saw the
    gas-spewing canister.

Published 12/15/94 in the San Jose Mercury News.

    
    some vauvus got hold of a CN type grenade. 
    
    fyremym didn't need to break a window for that, all
    they had to do was open it and fan the place out.
    
    

    
    one of the generals commanding a motor rifle division advancing on
    Grozny has refused to order his men to attack. apparently the
    military officers on the ground in Chechnya are extremely loathe to
    pursue this offensive.
    
    it could be crisis time for Boris.

    	All charges against the couple who left their kids with
    	a teenage babysitter for two weeks were dropped.

    
    back in october the uss kitthawk had a semi confrontation
    with a chinese nukklear sub in int'l waters. sonar buoys 
    were dropped, chinese fighters scrambled and us planes 
    scrampled in response. 
    
    chinese warn us they'll shoot next time.

    pretty GD'd arrogant of the chinese. stems, of course, from their
    perception of weak US resolve and leadership in DC.
    
    we'd get the sub easy. its the after effects that would be really bad
    news. this is a political issue,not a military one. that's the only
    scary part about it these days.

    why are we chasing a sub in international waters, anyway?  dropping
    sonobuoys is considered as agressive as locking a targeting radar on
    a jet.  Musta been pretty close to Chinese territory for them to have
    scrambled planes in response, they have no carriers.  So, we target one
    of their subs close to their coastline and they're arrogant about it?
    
    this deserves a bit more consideration, I think.
    
    DougO

    Chinee have always openly displayed an arrogance - at least since
    the commies stepped in. They were beggin' for us to pull their
    butts outa the Risin' Sun's gaping jaws.
    
    Then they crap all over us in Korea, they tool up NV, and the story
    continues. They openly violate human rights, are openly insulting
    to just about every free nation on earth, ta da, ta da ,ta da....
    
    I've got no use for that government.
    
    Chip

    
    Mass Auto Insurance Rate Commission reports that although property
    damage claims are up, bodily injury awards are down, and has
    recommended a $66/car decrease in rates, the first in many a year.
    
    Insurance company spokesman said industry may go to court, claiming
    a reduction in Auto Insurance rates will cause "chaos" in Mass.
    
      bb

    
    Another California woman eaten by hill kitty.
    
      bb

    
    RE: .492
    
    Carrier was in international waters on normal patrol. It is SOP to NOT
    allow potential aggressors within a certain radius of the ship. Captain
    was certainly being cautious and prudent in finding out where the
    potential problem (the sub) was.
    
      gene is right.... the Chinese sense weakness and will exploit to the
    fullest...
    

     Let the chinese scramble all they want, though I can't imagine why
    they would want to be used for target practice. Mebbe they desire a
    visit by Warren Christopher, or Jimmeh.

    Two clinics in Kansas city were the victims of attempted fire bombings. 
    One clinic suffered some damage as a fire broke out briefly, the other
    two bombs at the other clinic fizzled.

   A lawsuit filed yesterday accused the administration of misleading 
   the public and the federal court by withholding documents.  "The White 
   House made a concerted effort to secretly remove health care task 
   force records in an attempt to hide illegal activities and lied about 
   their reasons for removal in court," the Association of American 
   Physicians and Surgeons alleged in a statement. A hearing is scheduled 
   for today in US District court.

   The 1992 Clinton campaign paid almost $40,000 to a woman who claimed she 
   was sexually harassed by David Watkins.  This is the guy who took the
   presidential helicopter for a golf trip and was fired.  I guess they had
   no reason to suspect he was less than honest.  He is a millionaire by the
   way,  I wonder if he is taking the fall for someone else?  He is also
   cheap, remember, he didn't want to pay back the taxpayers for the 
   helicopter trip, but eventually did.

   The former head of the White House travel office pleaded not guilty
   in court yesterday.  He asked the judge to demand records from Hillary
   Rodham Clinton as well as those of the late Vincent Foster.  Somehow 
   this sounds kind of familiar,  not being able to get records and having
   to get the court to order it.  Is there a pattern here somewhere?

   These were just from todays paper, why do I sometimes feel like I am
   walking in my back yard turning over rocks?

    
    the woman I heard about poked the eye of the offending cat with
    a hemostat then sat on it for ten minutes until help arrived.
    
    it was then "put out of its misery" by gunshot. 
    
    

    
    From todays Globe....
    from an article about delivery people and their fears of crime..
    
    
    "Letri Nguyen, 29, of Quincy, was shot in the right eye
    and head at 10:23 p.m. on Stratton Street in an attempted
    robbery, Boston police said. He was treated at Boston City
    Hospital and released."
    
    

    >> 	All charges against the couple who left their kids with
    >>	a teenage babysitter for two weeks were dropped.
    
    I'd heard that story, too, and waited for an explanation of why
    the charges were dropped, but no such explanation was forthcoming.
    
    Given the lack of information, I'll speculate:  could the government
    have decided that it didn't want to get into the sticky issue of
    "How long is it acceptable, then, to leave kids with a sitter or
    a 'caregiver'?"  An evening?  A day?  Two days?  A week?...
    
    Chris

    >Given the lack of information, I'll speculate:
    
    well, you could have just asked; I read the story, and I'd answer your
    questions.
    
    The couple left four kids, ages 2-10, with a 14 year-old babaysitter
    for a planned three-day trip while they left town to work.  This was
    not the same case as the couple last year who went on a trip to Mexico;
    these people went on a construction job to earn some money.  They
    called back every day to the sitter; they called several of their
    friends when their return was delayed, asking them to keep an eye on
    the house, the sitter and the kids, and those friends did that; in
    short, the judge concluded that while they were certainly in the wrong
    for being gone for two weeks when they'd only contracted for three days
    worth of service, they were not guilty of child endangerment, because
    they knew that the kids were ok, they kept in touch, and they took
    extra steps to ensure that the kids were ok.  Not sure I agree with the
    judge's reasoning but at least now you know what it was.
    
    DougO

    Thanks for the info, DougO, I didn't know it was available.
    Since I'd heard the "dropping the charges" story at least twice
    from different news sources without any explanation, I'd concluded
    that the reasons had not been released.
    
    Even given the facts, this does raise the issue concerning how long
    it is considered "acceptable" to leave one's children in the care
    of others.  Apparently they didn't want to wrestle with that one,
    not that I blame them.
    
    Chris

    
    Linda Evans is touting her boyfriend for the Greek Presidency.

    Yani?????? President... on the National Anthem would improve!
    
    ha!

   Why go for Yanni when they can have... oh, what's his name... the master
   of the pan flute.

    
    he's ROmanian. 

    Zamboni?  No, wait, that's an ice surfacer...

    
    zamfir

   Zamfir is Romanian?  Or Yanni?

NEWS RELEASE

MICROSOFT Bids to Acquire Catholic Church

By Hank Vorjes

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- In a joint press conference in St. Peter's Square
this morning, MICROSOFT Corp. and the Vatican announced that the
Redmond software giant will acquire the Roman Catholic Church in
exchange for an unspecified number of shares of MICROSOFT common stock.
If the deal goes through, it will be the first time a computer software
company has acquired a major world religion.

 With the acquisition, Pope John Paul II will become the senior
vice-president of the combined  company's new Religious Software
Division, while MICROSOFT senior vice-presidents Michael Maples and
Steven Ballmer will be invested in the College of Cardinals, said
MICROSOFT Chairman Bill Gates.

 "We expect a lot of growth in the religious market in the next five to
ten years," said Gates. "The combined resources of MICROSOFT and the
Catholic Church will allow us to make religion easier and more fun for
a broader range of people."

 Through the MICROSOFT Network, the company's new on-line service, "we
will make the sacraments available on-line for the first time" and
revive the popular pre-Counter-Reformation practice of selling
indulgences, said Gates. "You can get Communion, confess your sins,
receive absolution -- even reduce your time in Purgatory -- all without
leaving your home."

 A new software application, MICROSOFT Church, will include a macro
language which you can program to download heavenly graces
automatically while you are away from your computer.

 The deal grants MICROSOFT exclusive rights to the Bible and the
Vatican's prized art collection, which includes works by such masters
as Michelangelo and Da Vinci. But critics say MICROSOFT will face stiff
challenges if it attempts to limit competitors' access to these key
intellectual properties.

 "The Jewish people invented the look and feel of the holy scriptures,"
said Rabbi David Gottschalk of Philadelphia. "You take the parting of
the Red Sea -- we had that thousands of years before the Catholics came
on the scene."

 But others argue that the Catholic and Jewish faiths both draw on a
common Abrahamic heritage. "The Catholic Church has just been more
successful in marketing it to a larger audience," notes Notre Dame
theologian Father Kenneth Madigan. Over the last 2,000 years, the
Catholic Church's market share has increased dramatically, while
Judaism, which was the first to offer many of the concepts now touted
by Christianity, lags behind.

 Historically, the Church has a reputation as an aggressive competitor,
leading crusades to pressure people to upgrade to Catholicism, and
entering into exclusive licensing agreements in various kingdoms
whereby all subject were installed with Catholicism, whether or not
they planned to use it. Today Christianity is available from several
denominations, but the Catholic version is still the most widely used.
The Church's mission is the reach "the four corners of the earth,"
echoing MICROSOFT's vision of "a computer on every desktop and in every
home."

 Gates described MICROSOFT's long-term strategy to develop a scalable
religious architecture that will support all religions through
emulation. A single core religion will be offered with a choice of
interfaces according to the religion desired -- "One religion, a couple
of different implementations," said Gates.

 The MICROSOFT move could spark a wave of mergers and acquisitions,
according to Herb Peters, a spokesman for the U.S. Southern Baptist
Conference, as other churches scramble to strengthen their position in
the increasingly competitive religious market.

    that was posted a week or so ago, Dick.
    
    DougO

Thanks, Dick.  I next unseened the prior posting.

    old news, blindusbubbas

    Dick:
    
    What news rag was that printed in...The National Enquirer?
    
    -Jack

    .515
    
    > I next unseened the prior posting.
    
    so did i.  must be the high noise-to-signal ratio in here.
    
    .516
    
    see above.
    
    .517
    
    i received it via fax from a friend at the new york botanical garden.

>    Even given the facts, this does raise the issue concerning how long
>    it is considered "acceptable" to leave one's children in the care
>    of others.  Apparently they didn't want to wrestle with that one,
>    not that I blame them.

Thank goodness they didn't tackle that one. The court apparently had the
good sense to realize that since reasonable care and attention was taken
the circumstances didn't warrant prosecution or further action. Had they
not decided this way, they would have opened up a whole new cauldron of
worms for the scumbag lawyers to feed upon. "They left the kids alone
_HOW_ long??? Wait a minute - let me get my legal pad . . . There's a
precedent for this . . . "

    
    Marines heading back to Somalia to cover retreat of 15,000
    UN peacekeepers.
    

    
    an 8 year old was taken into custody with 35 bags of crack cocaine
    in Noonan, GA.

    
    speaking of georgia, where's madmike???
    
    

    
    the muchly-touted tax cut proposed last night by da president may
    not be implemented until 1998.

    dee dee is out at the circus called the white house. panetta wanted her
    gone...so she is. she looks pissed. but getting away from this dying
    horse is best for her.

    See 18.210, Gene.
    
    DougO

    	Another guy shot at the white house overnight.
    
    	Apparently none of the bullets reached the white house.  (Was
    	he using a pea shooter?  Blunderbuss?)  Suspect not apprehended.

    
    US OH58 apparently down in NK. Two crew members safe and guests
    of the Dear Leader.
    
    

    
    It so happens that Rep Richardson (D-NM) is in Korea now and is 
    trying to get a status report on the incident and a promise of
    return of the two US Army warrant officers.
    
    

    
    Einsteins eyes are for sale courtesy of his former opthamalogist
    who needs to raise some cash.

    re -1 
    
    sick SOBs. well, they won't get mine. my will states my ashes will be
    scattered over some of the best deer hunting country in the world.

    .527, .529:
    
    It's now "return of the survivor and of the deceased's body".  One of
    the men has reportedly died of crash-related injuries.
    
    Dick

    
    
    
    Saw an interesting one this weekend outside of the Toys r us in
    Annapolis Md.  There was a BMW 325i in the lot with a newborn baby
    sitting in the carseat with a blanket over it.  There were cops around
    and someone alerted them.  The owner of the car was paged and when she
    went out to the car, she was immediately cuffed.  BTW, the car was
    locked.  
    
    
    Mike  

    was she cuffed because she was parked in the handicapped spot or what? 
    who got custody of the kid?

	I'd have to ask the same question....what was the arrest for? I don't
agree with what she did, but is it an arrestable offense? On what charge? Child
abuse? Would that really stick or were the cops just po'd....?


jim

    It's against the law to leave a child unattended in a car.

    
    
    
    I didn't ask, but I imagine it would be reckless endangerment or some
    such stuff like that.  I told the cop that I felt sorry for the lady 
    as I'm sure she wasn't looking to harm her child.  Nipper's sleeping,
    I'll just run in for a few minutes.  Cover up the kid with a blanket
    and no problem.  Cop says he hopes she learned a valuable lesson.  
    
    Mike

	I agree she shouldn't have left the nipper in the car, just not sure I
agree that arrest is the right way to go. Maybe just a smaq upside the head with
the nightstick....;*)

    
    
    7 alarm fire destroys a popular restaurant in dudley, ma.  2
    firefighters and 1 other person were injured in the blaze that
    destroyed the state line casino (which happens to be right around the
    corner from my g-parents old house and the police station).  so far, no
    cause has been determined.
    
    

    
    .538, Jim:
    
    Seeing as the car was a BMW, the best punishment would have been for
    the cops to put out one of the windows with the nightstick.  :^)
    

	Israeli Court has ruled a 1992 marriage invalid because of
	an invalid marriage 2 1/2 millenia ago; in 582 B.C. an
	ancestor of one of the parties in the 1992 marriage married
	a divorc�e.

	(That's all the detail I have; I suspect this has something
	to do with the right-of-return law.)

	/john

    
    caught this on da beeb; it seems that the religious pahhty outrayge
    may very well result in a no confidence vote in knesset; mr peres
    apology notwithstanding.
    
    shulamit aloni (minister of posts/telecoms and longtime liberal gadfly)
    taunted the religious m.k.'s by noting that even in legendary times
    human beings were, well, human..

    
    nukkelar physicist and six lbs of u235 seized by the czech police 
    in prague.

    
    
    
        One of the crew members on that chopper that went down was
        killed.
    
    
        Ed
    

>	Israeli Court has ruled a 1992 marriage invalid because of
>	an invalid marriage 2 1/2 millenia ago; in 582 B.C. an
>	ancestor of one of the parties in the 1992 marriage married
>	a divorc�e.
>
>	(That's all the detail I have; I suspect this has something
>	to do with the right-of-return law.)

Nope.  Reading between the lines, the husband is a kohen and the wife's
ancestor was a kohen who married a divorc�e.  The offspring of that
marriage are ineligible to marry kohanim, but otherwise they're perfectly
legit Jews, quite eligible for the Law of Return.

OK, so what is the impact for this couple?

1. Assuming they have no children yet, and are willing to separate, no
   problem.

2. What of any children already born, or born in the future?  Are they
   legitimate Jews (but not kohanim?) and may they participate in the life
   of the community?

3. What if they don't want to separate?  Does the law provide penalties
   for living together unmarried?  Will their offspring have any problems
   worse than also not being allowed to marry kohanim?  The cohen presumably
   would be forbidden to carry out the duties of a cohen, but that is not
   likely to matter in his lifetime, since the rebuilding of the temple
   isn't very likely in the next few years.  Will they be forbidden to
   worship at the synagogue?

/john

Note 14.536 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE 
    
    >>It's against the law to leave a child unattended in a car.
    
    not in all states. but here it is. just a coupla months ago a lady here
    from posh area of eden prairie was found guilty of leaving baby in car
    while at hairdresser. $2,000 fine and 80 hours of community service was
    penalty. since she was driving a mercedes 500 something or other i
    doubt the fine did more than piss her off. and the rich and buy their
    way out of community service by appealing it and after a court date is
    set the state will drop the penalty as to costly to prosecute. happens
    all the time.
    
    t

    >2. What of any children already born,
    
    that's when they found the problem.  They married some time ago, and
    went in recently to register their four year old - and found out that
    they themselves were still "single".  I'll see if I can find the clip.
    
    DougO
    -----here 'tis-----
    JERUSALEM (AP) -- Rabbis have ruled a couple's 1982 marriage illegal
    because of a sin committed by the wife's family 2,500 years ago, news
    reports said Sunday.
    
    Shoshana Hadad and Masoud Cohen could also face criminal charges of
    misleading the rabbi who married them, the Religious Affairs Ministry
    said.
    
    The ruling is based on a historic rumor. Rabbis believe that a distant
    ancestor of Hadad, a Tunisian immigrant, illegally married a divorcee
    in about 580 B.C., the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper and Israel Television
    said.
    
    That transgression marked the entire family. Rabbis decreed that their
    daughters for generations -- including Shoshana Hadad -- could never
    marry a Cohen. Cohens are descendants of the original Jewish temple
    priests and are expect ied to follow certain laws in family matters.
    
    When rabbis in Tiberias in northern Israel refused to marry them in
    1982, Cohen and Hadad had a religious wedding in Meron, another Galilee
    town, Hadad said on Israel radio. She said she believed that made it
    official, despite the doubts about her family's past.
    
    The newspaper indicated the couple learned the wedding wasn't
    recognized only recently, when they tried to register their 4-year-old
    son at the Interior Ministry. Hadad was told she was still listed as
    single.
    
    The couple can appeal the ruling, which carries legal weight because
    Orthodox rabbis set the guidelines for weddings in Israel.

    
    peres mentioned david and bathsheba in connection with this case,
    exorcising the orthodox faction and prompting the n.c. vote in 
    knesset which may/may not happen.

    Gene, you say Eden Prairie is 'posh'?  I just addressed holiday cards
    this past weekend and our buddies who relocated to MN are there.  I
    could empathise with anyone who wants to get out of sourthern
    california, but I couldn't believe they headed for Minnesota, it seemed
    a bit too drastic.  Posh, huh - I would've ribbed them, had I known.
    
    DougO

>    
>    peres mentioned david and bathsheba in connection with this case,
>

	David wasn't a cohen, though, was he?

/john

>2. What of any children already born, or born in the future?  Are they
>   legitimate Jews (but not kohanim?) and may they participate in the life
>   of the community?

Yes and yes.  Daughters can't marry kohanim, but other than that they're OK,
and sons can't do things that only kohanim can (see below), but other than
that, they're OK.

>3. What if they don't want to separate?  Does the law provide penalties
>   for living together unmarried?  Will their offspring have any problems
>   worse than also not being allowed to marry kohanim?

My understanding is that all marriages in Israel have to fall under some
kind of religious auspices, i.e. there's no civil marriage.  Because of
this, Jewish marriages have to be according to halacha.  But there are
very limited powers of enforcement.  So my guess is that they can continue
to live together, and that their children will be considered like the
children of any other unmarried couple.  According to halacha, the
children of an unmarried couple are _not_ mamzerim.  There may be aspects
of civil law that affect such children.

>                                                        The cohen presumably
>   would be forbidden to carry out the duties of a cohen, but that is not
>   likely to matter in his lifetime, since the rebuilding of the temple
>   isn't very likely in the next few years.  Will they be forbidden to
>   worship at the synagogue?

They won't be called to the Torah as kohanim, and they won't be able to
give the Priestly Blessing.  They can participate as much as any other
non-Kohen.  Why do you think that "the rebuilding of the temple isn't
very likely in the next few years?"

>Why do you think that "the rebuilding of the temple isn't very likely
>in the next few years?"

Because rebuilding it (at least on the Temple Mount) would start WWIII.

/john

Tradition has it that the 3rd Temple will be built by God.  He'll figure out
what to do with the Dome of the Rock.

    
    theres a dave cohen in my son's hebrew skule class, mebbe hes
    a relation of k.d.
    

    
    Lord Pitt, the first black peer, died over the weekend.
    

     >>>mebbe hes a relation of k.d.
    
    
    
    lang????
    
    

King David wasn't a kohen.

    .558
    
    do i assume correctly that kohanim are levites?

They're from the tribe of Levi (descendents of Aaron), but they're generally
not considered Levites.  The Levites helped out in the Temple, but the Kohanim
did the bulk of the duties.

    
    >They're from the tribe of Levi
    
    
    oh...so they were strauses...
    
    

| <<< Note 14.557 by GAVEL::JANDROW "Au naturelle..back 2 basics" >>>


| >>>mebbe hes a relation of k.d.

| lang????

	No, it had to be my cat!!! 

| <<< Note 14.561 by GAVEL::JANDROW "Au naturelle..back 2 basics" >>>


| >They're from the tribe of Levi


| oh...so they were strauses...


	raq..... that was soooooo bad that it was good! Thanks fer the smile!

    
    
    i am glad someone got that.... ;> :>
    
    

    
    I just felt this sudden urge to waltz...

| <<< Note 14.564 by GAVEL::JANDROW "brain cramp" >>>



| i am glad someone got that.... ;> :>


	Which one, k.d. or levi

    
    
    levi...i didn't get the kd you answered to...
    
    

    k. d. lang, popular (and quite good) country/jazz singer.

    
    
    i know who kd lang is....duh...i am the one who said it...i just don't
    get what HE said...
    
    

Note 14.550 by SX4GTO::OLSON
    
    >>Gene, you say Eden Prairie is 'posh'?  I just addressed holiday cards
    
    dougo, like any suburb there are newer and older parts. i say posh
    because eden prairie has about as many homes valued over $300K as it
    does below $150K. this in a metro area where average home price is
    about $96K.

    .569
    
    oopsie.  that'll teach me to read notes without noting who wrote em...