Conference vmszoo::rc

I had my back turned when your accident happened...it was a
hard luck weekend all the way around.  Was going to test fly Son
of Quick Stick, except for engine trouble.

Anyway, Randy, I'd be concerned about thinning the wing too much
by the amount you need to shave off for the semi-symetrical
(dang, I know how to spell that, why can't I?) wing.  I'd run
this one past Phil or Ivan before I tried it.  I think that you
will at least be doing something for next-to-nothing gain, and at
most be tempting the fates.  In the world of trainers, its best
to go vanilla flavor.  I have an RAF-34 wing section that's just
perfect for semi-symetrical wings, and I would need minimal
coaxing to cut a foam wing.

You're gonna have enough troubles getting the plane in the air
for this weekend, or even next -- don't take a chance that this
fix will come off without a hitch.

Flat bottomed wings aren't so bad; just a little floaty at under
10 feet or so.  You pull in a little more back stick as you hit
the threshold and they settle as pretty as you please.

btw -- as I was leaving with a very hang-dog look, Bob took pity
and called me over to fly his Cub.  He let me fly it around a
couple of circuits but took the box when my coached attempts to do
a loop resulted in a death spiral.  Got a little nervous there,
though I've been recovering from them for 2 years now and can do
it in my sleep.  I fly the big ones as bad as I fly the little
ones, which should stop any thoughts about going to a big plane!
Sure looked graceful and pretty flying around; I can understand
the appeal of those big ships.

    Here's something you may want to try. Rather than go fully symetrical,
    how about a phillips entry ? That's where the front of the wing
    (bottom) sweeps up to meet the leading edge. I'm flying off and on,
    a north east aerodynamics train-air 40 with this type of wing and I
    was quite surprized at how quick it was being for the most part a flat
    bottomed wing. This type of wing was also on my .60 size fun scale
    mustang. That plane had a huge flat area on the bottom but with that
    curve up to the leading edge, she would get up and go.

    
    
    I'd suggest that you build the wing stock. Fly the ship like this
    until you become bored withit and become an accomplished soloing
    pilot. Then shim the trailing edge of the wing up app. 1/8 of an
    inch. Aerodynamiclly this will give the wing a semisemetrical profile
    when the ship is flying. This way you get the beso of both worlds.
    
    
    Tom

    I second Tom T's suggestion.  The Aerostar 40 is a very good flying
    trainer with it's stock wing.  Why mess with success on a trainer. 
    Save the experimentation for the future when you have developed the
    skills to handle and understand what different wings do for you.  Lots
    of good trainers have flat bottomed wings.  You get good lift and
    gental stall characteristics.  So what if it doesn't fly like an
    aerobatic ship.  (It's a trainer, remember)  Most good planes have lots
    of test time invested to get them right.  If you make your own wing,
    you will have to experiment with CG and Incidence to get good results. 
    You might get lucky but on the other hand you might end up with a dog.
    
    Charlie
    

    Tom's absolutely right!  Don't mess with the Aerostar's wing right now. 
    I've flown one and it is very areobatic even with a flat bottom airfoil
    and it is one of the best handling trainers out there.  I've always
    been an Eagle 63 fan but after flying the Aerostar, I'll admit that if
    I had to buy my first trainer it would probably be the Aerostar.
    
    If you insist on trying to put a semi-symmetrical wing on it why don't
    you find an airfoil in one of the magazine plans that you like and blow
    it up to the same chord as the Aerostar's, cut yourself a stack of ribs
    ( which isn't difficult to do) and use the same construction method
    that the Aerostar uses. Voila!  Two wings, one to use now and one to
    experiment with.  It will only cost you a couple of extra bucks for the
    extra wing materials and you'll learn some things about scratch
    building too!! What a deal!
    
                --|--             Happy (con)Trails!
                 (O)             
          _______/ \_______       Scott Cox
    

Its built. I left the wing as is. I may take John up on his offer and cut
a foam wing for it later. For the time being I have to finish covering it
and install the hardware. It'll be ready for flying Saturday.

Thanks for the advice.

Randy

    It files. Quite nicely in fact. I got in a few flights the weekend
    before last. Last week was spent in Seattle, and the weather was rotten
    here this past weekend. I'm on vacation now and have gotten in about
    an hour a day both yesterday and today. I soloed yesterday so now I'm
    on my own.
    
    A couple of words of advice for anyone else who might want an Aerostar.
    	1. You must put in some downthrust on the engine. Without it it is
    	almost impossible to keep the thing down at full throttle. I put
    	2 washers under the rear engine mounting lugs. It still climbs a
    	lot, but it can be trimmed out, and I don't fly much at full
    	throttle anyway.
    
    	2. Replace the landing gear. With the stock landing gear it is
    	almost impossible to land without a BIG bounce. Even the experts
    	at the field have a hard time. The only difference between their
    	landings and mine is the height of the bounce. I just put on a set
    	of Klett glass reinforced gear. I'll let you know how that works
    	out.
    
    Other than these two minor problems it is a great ship. Much easier to fly
    than the T40, although I do miss the power of the Fox 40 I had in it.
    The OS FP just can't compare. I'll have to get the Fox repaired and
    maybe put it in the Aerostar when I'm ready for some more power.
    
    Randy

This note is to inform you of the demise of my beloved Aerostar. It went down
yesterday in a blaze of glory. I was merrily beating the sky about as is my
normal custom (you can't make an Aerostar look like a Panic, but you can try)
when disaster struck. I was on the downside of the first half of a Cuban 8 when
the left wing panel *EXPLODED*! It didn't fold, it literally exploded into
many many itty bitty teensy weensy pieces. The fuse with the right wing panel
still firmly attached did a slow death spiral into the ground. With the
exception of smoke and flames the whole thing looked just like something from
the movies. Absolutely beautiful. If you gotta lose a plane this was definitely
the way to do it. Some of the covering got caught in a thermal and rose to
a thousand feet or so. It must have rained wing for 30 minutes or so.

My public story is that a SAM (Surface to Air Missle) got me. Thats what it
looked like. My private conjecture is that 1 of two things happened:

	1. I hit something, a bird possibly. I was a ways out and didn't
	   see anything, but this is possible.
	
	2. The plane had a Fox 40 that turns a 10/6 at 13,000 RPM on the
	   ground. The plane was covered with Black Baron film (the first, last,
	   and only time I use that junk). The plane was in an almost vertical
	   dive at full throttle so was probably in the 80 - 100 MPH range.
	   I had a weak spot in the leading edge sheeting near the root where 
	   I had sanded nearly through when I built it. I reinforced this with 
	   epoxy but for the last several weeks it had been getting weeker and 
	   I had just about decided to strip the covering and fix it. I suspect
	   this gave way, taking covering with it and creating a large hole
	   in the leading edge. The hole allowed a brisk 80+ mile-an-hour
	   breeze to instantly pressurize and literally blow up the wing panel.
	   I think this is the most likely explanation. 

In the meantime all is not lost. I already had a nearly completed semi-
symmetrical wing finished for the Aerostar. I joined the halves last night and
all that remains is to glass the joint and do a final sanding. I'll be much more
careful about sanding the sheeting. I just ordered the balsa to build another
fuse from scratch. The tail feathers are fine, so they'll go into the new
plane. I should have a new ship ready to fly in a couple of weeks. 

The Aerostar is dead, long live the Aerostar!
Randy