Conference vmszoo::rc

    Sure Kay, I build hand-launched-gliders.  There's a simple technique
    that you can use to get the dihedral correct... block up the tip,
    and have the opposite end (not the l.e. or t.e) on the edge of
    the table.  Run your sandpaper block along this edge to give the
    proper angle to it when you glue it later.
    
    Does that apply here?
    
    Glenn

>    Sure Kay, I build hand-launched-gliders.  There's a simple technique
>    that you can use to get the dihedral correct... block up the tip,
>    and have the opposite end (not the l.e. or t.e) on the edge of
>    the table.  Run your sandpaper block along this edge to give the
>    proper angle to it when you glue it later.
>    
>    Does that apply here?
>    
>    Glenn

Exactly - thanks for the clarification Glenn.  

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Good job Kay, thanks for starting this note.
    
    I started on my Sagitta yesterday and have completed the STAB so
    far.  I plan on building my Sagitta as a Mini F3b ship, that is
    the wing will be flat, no polyhedral but about 3 degrees dihedral,
    it will have a straight trailing edge, meaning that the outer panels
    will be swept back about an additional 1.5 inches.  It will have
    ailerons and flaps with a seperate servo for each surface (2 aileron,
    2 flap).  The rest of the plane will be pretty much stock except
    that I plan on glassing the fuse to help with strength.  I am really
    looking forward to this project!  I plan on using this as a launching
    ground into F3b, in other words the plane will be configured the
    same although it wont perform like a F3b would.  I know that the
    flaps probably wont help much in the reflex mode but that is OK.
    
    I will be posting progress notes as time goes by.
    
    
    Mark Antry
    

    When I was in CXO back in 85 the best sagitta's I saw used carbon
    fiber laminated fom tip to center cord on both the wing and stab.
    In addition a piece was laminated into the trailing edge of the
    wing and stab and these were sanded to the .007 thickness of the
    carbon fiber. The rudders were most always controlled with one 
    "Cable" in a plastic tube that was glued full length inside the
    fuse. One other item was the installation of a "Turbulater". What
    this was,was a piece of fishing line glued full length on to of
    the wings covering app at the spar location. It's used to eliminate
    bubbles or pockets of air from forming on the wings surface. These
    pockets when formed have the effect of changing the airfoil.
    
    
    Tom

>< Note 968.4 by SA1794::TENEROWICZT >

Tom - glad you added that.  The wing plan is rather complex
(for me anyhow) so I'm following the plan and somehow I want to
put the carbon fiber on after the fact.  The top spar should be easy
cause the sheeting goes over the spar - later.  So I can put some
carbon fiber on the spar and then sand some off the sheeting that
sits on top of it.  The bottom is harder (and needs it more) cause
the sheeting was butted against the spar so when I add carbon
fiber it will stick out from the smooth bottom edge - hmmmmmmmm.
The trailing edges were nice hard light balsa and not laminated 
and I've already put them on.  Never thought of putting carbon
on the trailing edge - anyhow I don't have the .007 size I have
the separate fibers from Dave Brown - want to use up that stuff first.

Never thought about carbon on the stabilator - thanks for the idea.

Finished the board building part of the wing tips last night - also
put more masking tape on a Berliner-Joyce - also epoxied the tail
section of the Drifter II (again).

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    Are you building the Sagitta 600 or 900?  I have a Sagitta 600 with
    two sets of wings, poly with spoilers, and straight with ailerons
    and spoilers.  Both sets of wings are incredibly strong without
    carbon fiber.  
    
    Regards,
    
    Jim

    I just was reading the South Bay Soaring Society newsletter, the Silent
    Flyer. Before you start adding carbon fiber to your spares you should
    look at the april issue ( I'll forward you a copy in the mail). Bob
    Bayard and Reinhard Lahde did some pretty extensive testing of CF
    and CF/spruce. It turns out CF fails early in compression mode.
    This means CF on top of the top spar is not nearly as strong as
    CF on the bottom of the top spare (this places it in tension, assuming
    you don't to high G manuvers upside down). Unless
    the the CF is thick, ie. >.080". The same holds true for the bottom
    spare. The failure mode is a tendancy to buckle when in compresion.
     Also shear webs play a significant role in spare strength.

>    Are you building the Sagitta 600 or 900?  I have a Sagitta 600 with

Jim - 600 with polyhedral wing and spoilers.  I don't doubt the strength
of the wing - but I'm paranoid about folding wings after last summer -
plus I have some carbon and swore that I would never build wings again
without it - I also put carbon fiber in the Berliner-Joyce wings.

I've folded the wings on my Drifter II twice,  Jeep once, and separated
the wing from the fuselage on my Black Baron Special.  Maybe I should
switch to mode 1 just to keep that elevator away from my starboard thumb:-)

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    I would recommend that you provision for adding ballast over the
    CG of your Sagitta.  To be honest with you, I am somewhat dissapointed
    at my Sagitta's handling in wind over 10 MPH.  The penetration is
    not as good as I had hoped for such a slippery looking bird.  I
    am still experimenting with ballast, but it appears I am not adding
    near enough.  I flew this week with winds steady at approx. 10 mph,
    gusting to 20 mph, and it was survival all the way.  My father was
    flying his 100" Gemini without any ballast and was fairing much
    better.  I am convinced that larger ships fly much better in the
    wind, this is based on first hand experience with the following
    designs- Oly 650, LJMP Prelude, Gnome, Sophisticated Lady, and
    Challenger.  My Sagitta 600 has an unballasted wing loading of
    approx. 9 oz. per square foot.  It flies very well in relatively
    calm conditions.
    
    Regards,
    
    Jim

Well - I've been building the Sagitta in the background (when not busy
with Berliner-Joyce stuff) for some time and finally have a hint
to put in this note.  I got in trouble when it came time to glue
the tail of the fuselage together.  Both the Nyrods hit and I had
to unZap them and reZap them a couple of times before I could get
the tail together.

Soooooooo

Don't zap down the Nyrods when and where the plans show in the very last
6 inches of the tail - it won't work.

Now I have this interesting warp in the plywood fuse side right where I
want to join the wing tonight - Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

P.S.  Don't know if I already said but I took Tom Tenerowicz's advise
and carbon fibered the stabilator then glassed over the stabilator
center section.  I carbon fibered the bottom of the wing and put microfil
over the lump - seems OK so far.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

Done - well almost.

I have to sand and glass the fuselage and cover the wings yet.

BUT...

I have some extra parts left over?

I have two custom cut (bagged) pieces of balsa.
	1. 3" x 1 7/8" x 1/4"
	2. 7" x 3/4" x 1/8"

Anybody know what they are for?

Also I have an extra steel pin - not unlike the 4 pins that are
used for the wing joiner and stabilator but all those are larger
diameter.  This one is 2" long and 1/16" diameter.  What in the
world is that for?

Last but not least - I am not at all comfortable with the way the
wings and stabilator STAY on.  I would like to at least increase
the resistance of the steel rods in the brass tubes.  Any suggestions?
Something like waxing or putting rubber cement on them?
The ones in the fuselage I would like so fasten in so that as you
slide the wing on you can be sure that they stay centered.

I hope to fly it in a contest this Sunday so please if you think
you have a suggestion pop in - don't wait for some other expert.

Help

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    	I thought that the Sagitta used a spring or rubber band between
    two eyehooks to hold the wing together? If not then use some tape
    to seal the wing to fuse joint. This will also serve to hold the
    wing on. 
    
    Tom

>    	I thought that the Sagitta used a spring or rubber band between
>    two eyehooks to hold the wing together? If not then use some tape
>    to seal the wing to fuse joint. This will also serve to hold the
>    wing on. 

No Tom - but I like that idea.  Keep going - what about the Stabilator?
What about my extra parts?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

RE:< Note 968.11 by K::FISHER "Stop and Smell the Balsa!" >

    Well, Kay the extra pieces are probably to re-inforce the center
    section of the wing so it won't fold up on launch.  Heck, you won't
    need those pieces anyway since you never fold wings.  :-)  :-)

    On a more serious note,  I've seen the eyehooks and rubberband trick
    before.  Looked OK.  If you can't make that work, how about
    *slightly* bending the ends of the metal rods so they friction fit
    more than they do now?  (Note: bend only the ends - you don't want
    to change the dihedral of the wings.)

    On the smaller steel wire: Is that the one that is supposed to move
    up and down to move the stabilator?

    I can't comment more - I've never see one of these kits...

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Caster Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

>    Well, Kay the extra pieces are probably to re-inforce the center
>    section of the wing so it won't fold up on launch.  Heck, you won't
>    need those pieces anyway since you never fold wings.  :-)  :-)

Reassuring aren't you.

>    On a more serious note,  I've seen the eyehooks and rubberband trick
>    before.  Looked OK.  If you can't make that work, how about
>    *slightly* bending the ends of the metal rods so they friction fit
>    more than they do now?  (Note: bend only the ends - you don't want
>    to change the dihedral of the wings.)

Rubber bands sounds great for the wing - bending may be OK for the
stabilator.  A friend here suggested rusting the pins.  Still
like to hear one of you experts chime in with a "Here's what everybody
else does on stabilators..."

>    On the smaller steel wire: Is that the one that is supposed to move
>    up and down to move the stabilator?

Doesn't seem to be I got 5 steel pins with the kit.  One large (maybe 1/4")
one for the wing.  One long small one for alignment on the trailing edge
of the wing.  Two short small ones for the Stabilator.  And this extra
one which is maybe 1/4" inch shorter than the Stabilator pins and the
next diameter smaller.  Looks important but it looks like it is for
some other kit?

Keep the answers coming - I'm running out of time.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Use rubber cement on the rods.  I would not use this for the wing
    joiner, just the stabs.
    
    Others have used a wheel collar built into the whole mess of the stab. 
    But everytime I sheet over them I can never find them.  

Due to power hits in the building I was unable to read the most recent
reply before my weekend.  I wacked the steel rods with a sludge hammer
then forced them into the tubes.  On the Stabilator I made two on one
side very very tight and forced them in with a drill.  On the other side
I made them just very tight and this worked out fine.

I worked the last several nights on the plane and all day Saturday so 
Sunday I took it to a contest in Ct. and crashed it.

Kevin Ladd and I showed up at Ct after driving over 2 hours just in
time to miss most of the pilots meeting.  Then it was rush rush rush.
Dave Walter was already there and flew both his SIG riser and Top Flite
Metric.  I signed in and they wouldn't let Kevin sign in cause he couldn't
find his AMA card.  I got the frequency pin and hand tossed the Sagitta
once.  It was awful - I couldn't figure out what it needed.  I tossed
it again.  Then it was flying pretty good but I needed Lots of down.
I remember when I set up the stabilator servo I was concerned that I
didn't have as much travel in the up direction as the down direction
and was very concerned that I might not have enough UP.  As it turns out
the stabilator is much more sensitive than I had thought so there is
no problem with not having enough throw.  I had the elevator set up with
a EZ connector so it was a little difficult to put in a measurable amount
of down - but I tried.  I was about to throw it again then they started
announcing on the loud speaker that they wanted the channel 34 pin - that's
me.  So I turned in the Pin.

The reason they wanted it was so that they could call ME to fly in Unlimited!
Gads - so after I got back to the car they called my name and I went back and
got the Radio & Pin out of impound.  Now to the wench with a questionable
amount of down added.  Launch was OK and I was very gentle.  Floated off
the top and watched mostly for trim.  Now it needed a lot of UP!
anyway I held in up and made a good (but short 70 second) flight and missed
the landing.  Approach was OK but I dumped the spoilers when I was close
and it dropped short (never had spoilers before).  So turn in the Radio and
Pin and back for adjustments.  I changed the elevator to add some (arbitrary
amount) UP.  Now I wanted to get the radio and trim some more and they call
my name for 2 meter - gads.  So I check out the Radio and Pin and step up
to the winch.

It sort of takes a hard left and I lose control and hit the ground - not a 
pop off and very scary.  Being a dummy I get the plane and I'm back on the
winch in 30 seconds.  This time I throw it a little more on launch but no
help - same story hard left and into the ground on launch HARD!  Parts fly.

I ripped the wings out of the fuselage and broke the fuselage in half 
halfway between the trailing edge and the tail.  Fortunately the wings and
tail all seem undamaged and the radio is still OK.

Back to the parking lot to spend the rest of the day epoxying and Zaping.
Now Kevin is bugging me to use his plane.  Reluctanty I agree but since
his is the Airtronics Olympic II I only fly Standard and Unlimited class.
By the end of the competition (3 rounds) I could have flown the Sagitta again
but it is probably better that I take it home and fiberglass and repair some
more.

I took last in 2-Meter ( zero on the first flight (crash) and 2 more zeros
on the flights I passed while making repairs in the parking lot).
I took last in Unlimited (three scores of about 70).
5th in Standard - to good scores and one poor one.

On the first flight of Kevin's Oly II I almost maxed - nice plane.

It was a perfect day for floaters - interrupted by a brief shower at
about 1:00 PM.  We threw the planes in the back of my old Subaru and hopped
in Dave Walter's Toyota Supra during the rain.  There is more pleasure to
making a mess with chocolate chip cookie crumbs on leather seats than Dave
ever imagined!  Just after the shower we were all intertained by Helmit
Lelke (sp) hand launching his small own design glider.  During this time
Kevin spotted a white tail deer at the bottom of the hill.  

Sooooooo If I did my home work and properly trimmed the Sagitta before
winching I probably wouldn't have any problems.  I gotta replace that
EZ connector with one that has more predictable adjustment range.  Looks
like I also have to decrease the throw on both the Stabilator and Rudder.

I don't believe the directions say so does anybody know the right amount
of throw for Sagittas - I selected MAX everything!
Also the stabilator is much to sensitive not to have darn close so if anybody
has a Sagitta I would appreciate it if you would measure your incidence of the
Stabilator properly trimmed relative to the wing for me.  I'd like to
be closer next time than last time.

P.S.  What a lead sled.  I still hadn't glassed or painted the fuselage
      and I had to add lead every place I could in the front and it was
      still tail heavy.  Guess I won't worry about too much Fiberglass on
      the nose.

P.S.S.  We were watching Helmit winch up once and I remarked to Kevin
        "Look at those wings bend!" seconds later POW - Helmit folded
        his wing and the fuselage came down like an arrow and stuck in
        the turf.  One other guy folded wings on the winch - his was
        an electric design.

P.S.S.S.  Lincoln Ross was flying a Sagitta this year.  He modified the
          stabilators to be all balsa and slightly different shape.  He
          said most Sagittas come out tail heavy.  He took a trophy in
		  each of the three classes.

    Kay-
    
    I at least think youi should have gotten the trophy for courage...
    winching a new plane, first flight, in competition, with an audience,
    and out of trim.  TWICE! :^)
    
                             |                      
   \	       	         ____|____                      /   Regards,
    \________________________O_________________________/    Frank.
    

>    I at least think youi should have gotten the trophy for courage...
>    winching a new plane, first flight, in competition, with an audience,
>    and out of trim.  TWICE! :^)

Or stupidity.  Actually although rushed I really believed that it was close
to trim and the first launch was OK.  On the second one I attempted to
only slightly adjust the stabilator - but without a threaded clevis and
with the sensitivity of the throws on the Sagitta stabilator I guess
I was doomed.  I had intended to repair it for a contest Sunday but
that was to be in Westboro and it has been changed to next month.  So
I hope to fly it several times at my local field of my high start
this weekend and get good trim.  I repaired and fiberglassed last night
so get to spend tonight sanding all night.  But I won't have to sand
much on the front half of the fuselage cause I already know I can use
all the weight I can get on the nose.  Also I intend to remove the
EZ connector and replace it with threaded clevis on a smaller servo arm 
for less throw and more predictable trim changes.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================
    

Finished repairs and flew the Sagitta (off a high start) this weekend.

I have a few observations.

1.  I suggest you make gussets for all the aft ribs/trailing edge
    joints.  I thought about and didn't.  The only wrinkles I have
    on the Micafilm are because there is a lot of flex on the trailing
    edge - I probably broke all the glue joints when I crashed on
    the winch.

2.  The stabilator aft hinge pin loosens up right away and the assembly
    flops around embarrassingly.  Someone at the CT. competition
    said that someone else had epoxied the pin in solid.  I like the
    idea of the brass tube tho - anybody have a better suggestion?

3.  I really need a lot of down for normal flight.  Easy to see now
    why it crashed on launch.  Going up the high start it would
    always take a hard left until I put more and more and more down
    trim in it.  With enough down trim to get a modestly safe launch
    it really flies fast.  I never covered so much sky in so little
    time before - must have a good L/D cause it didn't loose much
    altitude.  

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    My Sagitta's tail flops around like crazy also, as do many other
    stabilators on other ships I have seen.  It is inherent in the design
    of the linkage.  It stops when the ship is flying, but it sure does
    look like hell!  The Sagitta 600 as I mentioned before will tip
    stall quickly and takes some getting used to if you are moving up
    from a floater.  The straight wing version of this ship is even
    faster, with the same great L/D.  Good luck with the "new" Sagitta!
    
    Regards,
    
    Jim

    Hmm...  Interesting reading...
    
    Now that I have a new JR radio on a "glider" frequency, I am committing 
    myself to fly gliders at the NATS.  Only problem is, all I got is a 
    2-meter ship.
    
    I have been offered a Sagitta 900 built by Art Feria (sp?) and only 
    flown a couple of times by a renouned collector of gliders (Preston
    Hellar of Hobbies Plus).  The price is not much above materials
    including 3 servos...  
    
    After reading all these notes, I'm not sure if I should pick it up or 
    not..  
    
    Any more comments on the 900??
    
    Thanks,
    jeff
    

    If you're planning on flying the Sagitta in the open class at the
    Nats, you'll be at a disadvantage in the spot landings. Performance
    in the air will be competitive enough, giving the type of tasks
    required in Nats competition.
    
    You'll also be one of the few, if not the only entrant, with a Sagitta.
    
    But if the price is right, why not ?
    
    Terry

    It does have the spoilers..  
    
    >>You'll also be one of the few, if not the only entrant, with a Sagitta.
    
    Hmmm, I'm not so sure that is a good sign!
    
    Thanks!
    jeff
    

>    >>You'll also be one of the few, if not the only entrant, with a Sagitta.
>    
>    Hmmm, I'm not so sure that is a good sign!

I'll have a Sagitta 600 there in the 2 meter class to keep you company.

One thing to remember - the winners usually win by skill and familiarity
with their plane - it isn't the plane that gets them in the winners circle.

Go to any contest in our area and bet on Jim Tyre and Tom Keisling.
It won't matter if they are flying gentle ladies in open class.

Now with F3B and F3E it will be a different story.

The Sagitta 900 is a wonderful plane.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    What Kay says is true as long as the conditions remain within a narrow
    range and good lift can be found right over the field. 
    If you have to fly all points of the compass looking for lift, then
    Gentle Ladies are dead meat. Sagittas will extend your search zone
    quite a bit. 
    
    But heck, you're going there to have fun and do as well as possible
    with what you've got, so ...be happy!
    
    Shoot ! I'm rebuilding a Thermic Traveler to fly in 2 meter at the LSF
    Nats, a ~1940 design, albeit with an e-205 airfoil, but no flaps
    or ailerons which everyone else will have, but do you think I'm
    worried ?..oooh-er.....
    
    Terry

    
    I am looking to build my second glider fairly soon. In an issue of the
    CRRC newsletter, dated Dec.1991, they recommended the Sagitta 600 as the
    first intermediate glider to build. Do any of you Sagitta folks have
    any comments as to whether this would be a good second ship to build ?
    Pros and cons ? 
    
    thanks,
    
    Mike           

I saw a couple fly in the CRRC Soar-in over the weekend. They seem to fly well
but tend to be heavier ships. What are you hoping to gain with your second ship?
What can't you original ship do that you hope to get out of the next one? Do
you want to try flaps or spoilers? Do you want to stay with a 2 meter or move up
in size? Is budget an issue? 8^)

You might want to check out the Spirit 100. It can be set up with a poolyhedral 
wing with flaps or spoilers and has the option of building an aileron/flap flat 
wing for higher performance. To me this looks like a nice choice in moving up 
from a floater 2 channel plane.

>        <<< Note 968.28 by VCSESU::SEGOOL "Mike Segool DTN 226-6824" >>>
>                       -< Sagitta, a good second ship ? >-
>
>    
>    I am looking to build my second glider fairly soon. In an issue of the
>    CRRC newsletter, dated Dec.1991, they recommended the Sagitta 600 as the
>    first intermediate glider to build. Do any of you Sagitta folks have
>    any comments as to whether this would be a good second ship to build ?
>    Pros and cons ? 
>    
>    thanks,
>    
>    Mike           

I agree with Jim - kinda depends on what your first ship was and what your
goals are.  If you look back in these notes (I assume you did) you'll notice
that my second sailplane was a Sagitta in 89 and it started off with two
crashes on the winch.  Despite this poor start I still have my Sagitta and
in fact took it with to the CRRC contest this weekend as a back up ship.

I was impressed with how many Sagitta's there was at the contest.  There was
at least 2 Sagitta 900s plus one Sagitta 900 flat wing plus at least
one Sagitta 600. 

As Jim said they do tend to be heavy but I'm quite sure nobody has a heavier 
Sagitta 600 than mine and mine flys great.

After I put it on the Vision radio I started making much smoother landings.
It is difficult to coordinate the up elevator with the spoiler timing.

Bottom line is what is your experience and what are your goals.
The Sagitta is a good bird but it is an old (although classic) design.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

        Re:        <<< Note 968.28 by VCSESU::SEGOOL "Mike Segool DTN 226-6824" >>>

        Mike,
        
                If you  really  are  comfortable flying your first glider
        and know you  are  going into soaring seriously, you may consider
        going directly to a  flap and aileron ship.  You need quite a lot
        of money, because you'll need  a  computer  transmitter  ($350  -
        $550) plus one of the good  kits  ($100  -  $200).  If you do, go
        with an Unlimited class ship (100"+).  I think someone reasonably
        experienced  and willing to be helped by experienced  fliers  can
        make the leap without destroying the ship on the first launch.  I
        may get a lot of arguments, but I think the Legend is a ship that
        extends from advanced beginners all the way to expert.  I  am  on
        my  second - the first was just decomissioned because I wanted to
        build  it a bit better - and I have NEVER crashed or damaged  any
        of them.
        
                The argument  for  this  path is that if you are going to
        spend the money  anyway,  this will be a good time to do it.  The
        other part of the  argument is that the Sagitta really isn't fish
        nor fowl any more.  It  isn't  going  to win contests for you.  A
        gas bag like the Oly II will  win  contests in light air and weak
        thermals, and you need a high tech ship  to win when the thermals
        and the wind get stronger.
        
        Give it some thought!
        
        Anker

    Thanks for the quick responses !
    
    I think I should fill in some blanks. I have never flown a glider! (I 
    do have a limitted amount of power experience) I have an Oly 650 that 
    needs a few finishing touches. I had planned on having flown the 650
    many times by now but I ran into problems and have been on crutches all
    summer and expect to be on them until the fall. I was hoping to take
    advantage of the time I have while still on crutches and start building 
    a second glider.
    
    I was at the CRRC contest on Saturday and was really impressed with the
    ships that could get from one end of the sky to the other in a hurry.
    For the next glider I build I would like it to have those
    characteristics.
    
    As mentioned in the base note, the reason I was looking at the Sagitta
    was the recommendation in the CRRC newsletter, that's all.
    
    Mike

Well, that sky crossing is generally done by the higher performance ships. That 
then begs the question about how much you're willing to spend. You can get a 
Spirit 100 kit for $70 or you can spend $200+ for some of the other ships. Yes,
the Legend is nice but those kits are $180. The Pulsar is good at $140. Topic
1404 tells the story with the $150 Alcyone I was flying. Find a Northeast
Sailplanes catalog and thumb through it. That's got about the best selection of 
ships around.

    Another suggestion: the Dodgson Camano. It's 100", full featured, and
    has won many contests. Chris Schuch was flying one this weekend, flat
    yellow finish and pretty beat up.

        Re:        <<< Note 968.32 by VCSESU::SEGOOL "Mike Segool DTN 226-6824" >>>

                If that's the case my advice is as follows:
        
                I'll start  with  a  question:   Have you flown ANYTHING?
      
                Get the Oly  650  going.   You can have a lot of fun with
        that ship.  Start  by  building the standard poly wing.  Once you
        have that licked find someone  who  will  cut a set of foam cores
        for you and build an aileron  and  flap  wing.  Make sure you buy
        some mini servos right from the start.    The idea is to purchase
        as little as possible that you can't use.    Fly with the aileron
        wing until you are comfortable.  At the appropriate time, whether
        you  win  the  lottery,  X-mas or a birthday comes along,  get  a
        computer radio.    In  parallel  buy  an  unlimited fancy glider,
        whatever is in  vogue  at  the  time, build it before you utterly
        destroy the Oly.   The  idea  here is not to build it in a hurry.
        Finally, when you have the  new  glider ready, transfer the radio
        gear to the new glider and  save the Oly just in case the new one
        gets grounded.
        
                Don't do the Sagitta.
        
        Anker

    
    Ooops, looks like we're getting off the base note subject. Moderator,
    please feel free to move this this if it is appropriate.
    
    I guess this is not going to be as easy as I expected. 8) .
    
    Anker, I have a Kadet Jr. that I have flown many times successfully,
    and some times not so successfully ! I have a 4 channnel Vanguard PCM
    radio for the 650.
    
    To be honest I'm a little bit intimidated by the higher tech kits with
    fiberglass fuselages, foam wings and composite construction, even
    though I realize that that is the place I want to go.
    
    I do have a Northeast Sailplane catalog. I'll have to reread it again.
    (what a chore ! 8) )
    
    Mike

Mike,

Do like Anker suggests and get the Oly flyable. A bunch of us go down to a field
in Acton during lunch and fly gliders. You always find a helping hand if you 
need. I know several people(including me), who learned to fly at that field. 

Just watch out for the swamp! :-)

-Lamar

The Oly 650 is one of my favorite 2-meter planes and I've never owned one.
They fly GREAT and for their size have a large cord.

They go up the winch GREAT and float nice.

A good second ship would also be an Oly II.
It isn't exactly an enlarged Oly 650.  It is just a nice gentle 100"
wing plane that will last and last and last.
Cheap and fun to build.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
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    Thanks all for the advice. For now the Sagitta is off. I should be done
    with the Oly this weekend.
    
    Mike