Conference vmszoo::rc

    Doug,
    
    Buried somewhere in the "Rambling" topic (239.?) is a discussion
    on the potentially dangerous reactions some people can have to CYA
    fumes...THE EFFECTS CAN BE DEADLY!  Dont't fool around!!  If  you
    are experiencing allergic symptoms of any kind while using CYA's,
    discontinue using it at once 'til you obtain and _USE_ a good CYA
    mask.  Otherwise, you risk severe allergic reactions which can
    lead to respiratory arrest and/or  D  E  A  T  H !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    The other, more common, but less lethal reaction to CYA is mucous
    generation.  To most people, that is simply an annoyance --- the
    severe cold-like symptoms described by Al in 239.447.  To an asthmatic
    it can be fatal.
    
    I happen to have severe asthma myself.  Friday evening I inhaled CYA
    fumes while doing some repair work just before bedtime.  A few hours
    later I was in deep trouble with lungs thoroughly plugged up and
    a diaphragm screaming for a rest.  I got out of it without a trip to
    the hospital, but I was quite exhausted until Sunday and missed
    the beautiful flying weather Saturday.
    
    An asthmatic getting into modeling should be warned that CYA might
    be more dangerous than other fumes.  (Usually I am not especially
    bothered by solvent fumes.)

        I have a powerful exhaust fan in my cellar window, right above
        my model building bench. It is on a variac control so I can vary
        the speed of the fan. Besides exhausting glue fumes, it does a
        good job of clearing the air after a heavy sanding session. 

	I then have another fan that blows gently right across the work
	surface. CA tends to cure all at once, and sends a puff of fumes
	in your face if you're not careful, particularly the hot/fast
	cure ones. The fan dissipates that puff pretty well.

	Although I have allergies, I haven't noticed much of a reaction
	to CA other than mild runny nose and congestion if I get a lot
	of it. Nevertheless, I'm careful with the stuff.

        By the way, my exhaust fan is so powerful that I have to open
        another window to let return air in. My house is not all that
        air tight, but if I have the cellar door closed and turn on the
        fan, I have managed to reverse the draft on my chimney, which
        will give me worse fumes than the CA if the furnace comes on.
        Having a window open gets chilly in cold weather, but it's
        better than getting fumed. Don't let the cure be worse than the
        disease! 

	Dave

>< Note 862.1 by GUSHER::RYDER >
>                      -< asthmatic reaction to CYA fumes >-
...
>    I happen to have severe asthma myself.  Friday evening I inhaled CYA

So Al - try the new Odorless CA and report your findings.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Model Aviation magazine has an ad this month for a "CA" Mask
    from Pelican Enterprises, 2540 Ridge Road, Lansing, Illinois 60438
    and their telephone number is 312-895-8151.  The mask is $12.47
    plus $3.50 for shipping.  No CODs.
    
    I'm not associated with them in any way, I just noticed the ad.
    
    Glenn

    That's not anaphalatic shock... sorry.
    
    True anaphalatic shock requires the injection of a foreign protein. 
    PROTEIN!  Not just any chemical, a real protein!  Bee stings contain
    some bee protein, and the reaction is to the bee protein, not to
    the major part of the venom (dilute formic acid), so that is true 
    anaphalatic shock.
    
    But CYA does not contain any proteins- therefore it cannot cause
    anaphalatic shock.  It _can_ cause a severe allergic reaction- but
    it's not A.S.  Treatment is the same as for A.S.  as it is for other
    severe allergic reactions. 
              
    Getting thy butt to the hospital fast _IS_ the right thing to do,
    though!  Don't drive yourself, have someone else drive you.
    
    	-Bill 

    This week I had a check-up with my respiratory specialist and asked
    about the CA reaction.  Bill Yerazunis is correct, it is not an
    anaphylactic shock, but it is an extraordinary sensitization ---
    something about T cells, mumble, mumble.  Anaphylactic shock affects
    the whole body; this CA reaction is within the lungs.  I have had
    severe reactions to wasp stings, so I have experienced the difference.
    
    For people with extraordinary sensitivity to this chemical, there
    is no lower threshold --- a couple of molecules will set it off.
    He had a patient in Nashua that would react when a worker on the
    other side of the factory used CA even though no odor was detected.
    
    I have switched to Satellite City's UFO glues, which I can use without
    special precautions.  I still have unanswered questions, though.
    UFO does contain cyanoacrylate ester, so why doesn't it get me?

    I was working on glueing my fuselage last night.....first time I've
    done any extensive glueing.  About halfway through my eyes got all
    weird like I couldn't focus.  Then this morning I felt really nauseous
    and dizzy.....still a little rocky and have a wicked headache.  Being a
    reasonably bright person I said to myself "Hmmm, wonder if this has
    anything to do with the glue???  I'll go check the notesfile today and
    see if there is any information on this." So.....I guess I understand
    what happened now.  
    
    Question is, I don't have any kind of exterior fan/ventilation in my
    basement, but I can set up a fan to blow the stuff away from me.  Will
    that be enough.  I also plan to stop by the hobby shop tonight and see
    if they have the UFO stuff and/or a mask.  My dogs usually hang out
    under my workbench while I'm there.....is this really dangerous for
    them?  Will getting UFO take care of it without the other stuff?
    
    Diane
    

    The UFO will help with your CA sensitivity, so will the fan.
    The simplest thing to remember is don't keep your face directly
    above your work as you do the glueing. All the fumes go up, and
    over the course of one building session you accumulate a lot.
    It won't bother the dogs. My cat hangs out ON my workbench.
    
    Terry

    I was directly over the stuff I was glueing....real close since this
    was my first experience with this and I was working really close and
    really slow.....must have gotten a bunch of it....still feeling really
    weird tody..

    Diane:
    
    I have had a very similar experience during my first long CA gluing
    session.  Felt like I had been drugged, and stayed woozy and "out of
    it" for a day afterwards.  After this I became very leary of gluing
    with CA, but I think I have resolved it to my satisfaction with one of
    those portable, clip-on plastic fans.  I clipped it at one side of the
    workbench about face high, aimed it such that it blows a gentle breeze
    across the piece being glued, and this has eliminated much of the
    reaction I was having.  The minute I turn the fan off, I can feel the
    burning sensation in my eyes, and get a much stronger odor.  Based on
    this experience I can recommend the fan as one possible solution for
    you.  I bought it at Sears for about $12.
    
    By all means, be careful with this stuff, and develop a healthy respect
    for its ability to give you an alergic reaction.  Also, I wear a dust
    mask when sanding because the CA particles thus generated are even
    _more_ potent than the fumes.  If you have a sensitivity to the fumes,
    you may have an even greater sensitivity to the solid particles.  Given
    proper precautions, you should be able to work with CA glues to get all
    their benefits without any of the bad side effects.
    
    Regards,
    Joe

As an avid reader of John Preston's Safety Comes First column,
I'd like to add that he has never published any findings of long
term damage by CA.  In fact, if you dig about a bit in these
files, you'll find that it has had medical applications before we
modellers ever got ahold of it.  However, the fumes are quite
potent, and one should never work with one's nose so close to the
adhesive.  And, btw, never pick your nose while working with CA.

I've never used the UFO, but Preston has reported that people
with allergic reaction to regular CA have no reaction to UFO.

Good sign though, the fumes mean that the stuff is kicking off
nice and hot, this means you're using it correctly on well-made
joints.  I get a kick out of seeing a little curl of smoke when
it goes off.

Believe it or not, sometimes its hard to get CA to kick
off without help, that is on everything but your fingers -- it
always works great there!

    Joe, 
    
    Re: the sanding......I have some sanding to do, I probably got a little
    carried away with the glue....when you mention wearing a dust mask, do
    you mean just the kind you can buy in the hardware store....the funny
    paper ones?
    
    BTW, I stopped and bought UFO on the way home, a thin and a slow. $30
    for the two!!! I'll order it from Tower next time, but I couldn't stand
    to wait that long with a weekend coming up to play at my workbench.
    
    Initially, I was feeling kind of irritated that George didn't tell me
    about the UFO when I bought the other stuff (ZAP), but then after
    thinking about it and given the price, I probably would have cheaped
    out and thought "It won't bother me....".  I do wish he had warned me
    about the general safety issues though, especially since it was obvious
    this was my first plane.
    
    Diane
    

    RE: -.1
    
    Yep...the dust masks I use are available at both hardware stores and
    pharmacies.  They are the simple paper type, cost very little, but can
    keep an amazing amount of dust out of your nasal passages.  I use them
    all the time and find them quite effective.
    
    Keep us posted on your progress.
    
    Regards,
    Joe