Conference vmszoo::rc

    I have a Kalt Baron 28 Dave. It has been a little tricky to set
    the pitch/throttle control curve. When I have gotten it right
    the chopper flew great and made a beginner look good. It is a 
    very stable bird. If I did it again I would go with the .28 rather
    than the .25 that I presently use. I will be able to tell you more
    about this after this weekend when I try it without the heavy 
    training gear to find out whats going on.
    
    Instuctions were very good. Went together without significant 
    problems even without any help and being a novice.
    
    Mike 

                  -{How not to do it!!}-
    I took a day off work on Friday and decided that as it was a lovely
    summers day that I would go flying with a friend.I strapped my hoola
    -hoop to the undercarrage and began to hop around the field with
    that "on ice" style that only a true novice can do.This I must point
    out was only my second day out with my copter and I was just beggining
    to get a few hovers my best being about fifteen seconds! when a
    gust of wind caused the copter to balloon up to about 15 feet.Panic
    set in ,I chopped the throttle with just about enough rear cyclic
    to provide a monster boom strike!! the copter just burst in mid
    air and crashed in a heap on the ground.
    The damage was pretty horid comprising of a boom tail and main rotor
    blades a tail rotor gearbox,flybar,T.P control rod and the flexible
    control rod to the tail,not to mention both fins and an engine mount.
    Anyway we packed up the wreckage and drove to my nearest Kalt dealer
    which is about 70 miles away who relieved me of seventy_one pounds
    for the parts and since then I have been putting it back together.I
    am going to sideline the cyclone until I get a bit more competant
    as my friend bob has kindly offered my a loan of his Morley M.X.A.
    until I can hover O.K. as we calculated that the same boom strike
    would have cost about Fifteen pounds on this model.Anyway its great
    to hear from fellow Heli-addicts and am pleased also to hear that
    Kalt machines do actually fly.
    
                       Regards
                        Dave

    
      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Mike,
        I am interested to hear how your Baron flew without the training
    u/c I have now all but rebuilt the cyclone and hope to test it this
    weekend.

    Well its like this. I was able to adjust it to get the last two
    notches on the throttle to go up to 20 feet. This means it was
    just barely flyable. I guess it wasn't tweeked to the max. I flew
    it anyhow. It was significantly less stable however. Maybe I should
    say it was more maneuverable (sp?). The stability came from the
    large underslung mass that acted like a long pendulum where as
    it now had a short one. 
    
    It will probably take me some time to re-repair it now. I think
    I'll finish building my cavalier and do some flying as Im a little
    tired of repairing the chopper all the time. Im not ready to give
    up yet, its just that Id like to fly some instead of repair,tweek,
    repair,tweak...
    
    Mike
    

    Dear Mike ,
             I,m glad to hear that it is'nt just me who seems to be
    struggeling with these whirlybird things!.I suppose it is slightly
    perverse to attempt to fly an object with all the aerodynamic prowess
    of a garden shed...with the power to weight ratio of an average
    wheelbarrow.....and with the elegance of a skateboardig South American
    tree sloath.....But still we try.It seems Mike that you will be
    spending some of your "Hard Earned"on either a new Heli-motor or
    a tuned pipe or both!!!!!.
               Keep in Touch!!
    
                   Dave Leyland
          Boomstrike H.Q.Basingstoke U.K.

    Hi,
    	Just thought I'd butt in as there seems to be a shortage of
    UK notes in here, not to mention UK Heli stuff!
    
    	I noticed the Blasingsmoke bit and my geography is JUST good
    enough to know that it's not too far away as I work in Reading,
    stay in Wallingford but hail from Aberdeen. I'm down here on contract
    for at least a year and have just revived the itch to get out and
    try again at this flying lark (funny how I always get that itch/the
    time AFTER summer!). I have a Shluter Mini-Boy which I have been
    trying to fly from time to time for the last year but have had some
    sort of trouble every time out (flat ni-cads, engine trouble,
    disintegrating clutch etc).
    
    	Q1.  Are there any clubs/groups/gangs around that have fileds/
    instructers/pubs in this area?
    
    	Q2.  Is there much Heli interest in this neck of the woods?
         
    	Q3.  Any good shops around that I should be aware of (there
    is one in Wallingford but there is a distinct lack of Heli's)?
    
    
    I would be interested to here form anyone in this area (or anyone
    else come to that) as it's about time I got to grips with the beast.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken Lee	@REO	DTN (830) 6778
    

	I am afraid that I live a bit too far away from the M4 corridor
to connect with you guys, but it good to hear of others trying to master
the skills of R/C choppers.
	I too have a Mini-boy and have had much fun with it in the few attempts
I have made. I actually began to get relatively proficient at hovering (for
a beginner that is). Until the one day I had an audience. Typical, lost
control, hit the power to try and get away from the troublesome ground and
straight into a fence. I have since converted it from 4 to 5 servos with
separate servos for collective and throttle but I am having a devil of a
time trying to trim her out. I think I will have to recruit expert help.
Unfortunately like Dave, this resides some 60 miles from where I live.
	My advice, for what it is worth, is to use some form of wide landing
platform, I managed to go from total beginner to moderate hover without
any mishaps and it was fairly easy to make the transition to skids only.
When it did go wrong the hoola-hoop would have been of no help anyway.

	Keep the faith, it has to get easier!!! Doesn't it ???

Regards,

	Allan 
    

    Hi Allan,
    	If you are having trouble trimming the liilte beast it might
    be worth while taking a wee trip across to Marionville Models and
    see if you can get hold of Joe Anderson. He isn't actually employed
    by them but is usually there on Fridays (I don't know about weekends)
    if you can pop across (I know it's not just down the road). That's
    where I got my Mini-boy (second-hand but a good deal) as I used
    to do a lot of traveling between Aberdeen and Edinburgh. They usually
    have a good stock of spares too and Joe is always very helpfull
    (He was going to help set up my chopper in the street outside their
    old shop one night when it was beginning to get dark but we couldn't
    get the *^%&#$% thing to start!).
    	I am probably preeching to the converted if you have been there
    but if you haven't I can tell you how to get there (they moved to
    a nice new(er) place earlier this year) if you are interested.
    	By the way, I assume you are using a real Heli radio with your
    5 servo setup (I suppose an ordinary set with a Y-lead would work
    just as well as the 'standard' mechanical mixing arrangement but
    a proper Heli set gives you much better control with the extra
    facilities!! { I must get one soon myself!!})
    
    	Hope your accident didn't do too much damage!
    
    	Cheers!
    
    	Ken Lee @REO

    Hi Ken,
    
    	I got mine at Marionville too. Joe helped me set her up first
    time. I thought I could try this one myself, but it has proved too
    time consuming. 
    	The transmitter I am using is the MAX (JR) PCM Computer Heli.
    I am most impressed with the set, still have most of the features
    turned off incase I hit the wrong switch, but maybe someday.
        As for the accident, the damage was fairly minor considering
    the force of the impact (strong little beggers aren't they). Most
    costly part was the clutch and that was because the throttle linkage
    sprung and I couldn't cut the engine. Tore out the feroda lining
    and tempered the clutch in the out position.
    	One day I will master this thing, and then I might go for the
    Scout 60 or Junior 50 with a fuselage. Make it look like a proper
    helicopter.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan
               

    HI KEN+ALLAN
               There is a model club in Reading which I belong to they
    fly at a place called Dregnought Park on Saturday and Sunday
    Afternoons.They meet at a pub in Caversham Fortnightly and are a
    great bunch of lads.Always willing to laugh their socks off at my
    feeble attempts at hovering!.Allan:the Junior 50 is a great machine
    the guy who I fly with has one.It is very responsive and aerobatic
    and does excellent autorotates.The only problem appears to be in
    the tail rotor pitch control shaft which actually failed abou 30
    feet from the ground on my mates'.Apparently this is pretty common
    on this copter and is to do with the shaft being installed the wrong
    way round(although there is no mention in the instructions of a
    particular orientation).Fortunatly the model did a sycamore impression
    and hit the ground with no Damage(some guys have all the luck).I
    have just got hold of a Morley MXA which I am going to use during
    the expensive part of the learning curve.
    
    Regards Dave(dreaming of Heim Bell 222's)Leyland
    

    Hi Dave,
    	I was out and about this Sunday, scouring the country-side (and
    the skies!) around the sort of Sonning direction looking for any
    forms of animated objects but didn't find anything. I'll get out
    the good old A-Z and have a look for that Dreg-thing Park.
    	Could you tell me which pub in Caversham these guys meet and
    when the next booze-up, SORRY Meeting, is ? I wont actually be around
    this weekend (long over due for a trip home!) but I will probably
    be on the lookout for some flying egg-whisks next weekend. I also
    hope to have my beasty fixed by then (parts are now on their way!)
    so with some luck you could be in for a good laugh too!
    
    Cheers,
    	Ken

    Hi Allan,
    	Interested to hear that you are using the JR stuff as I am at
    present considering a nice new set of knobs and twidlly bits.
    	I am trying to decide which set to go for out of (at the moment)
    3 choices :-
    	1.	JR Computer 6 Heli (Cant justify the extra �200 odd
    		for the fancy 8 channel job)
    
    	2.	FUTABA Heli thing (Chalanger I think, can't recall right
    		now)
    		The new PCM 1024 (?) beast looks rather nice but I'll
    		bet it comes complete with nasty letters from the bank!
    
    	3.	Something nice form SANWA as I have been using their
    		stuff for a few years with hardly any problems (when
    		it gets used that is!) but I don't know what they have
    		on offer just now.
    
    I am also considering one of those new Shuttle XX beasties but as
    I already have 1 chopper that gets little enough use it is a bit
    hard convincing myself to part with the dosh! With the end of the
    month now in sight a quick check of the financial status will
    no doubt put the mockers on things for another few weeks anyway.
    
    	Anyway,... Does anyone out there have any ideas/strong opinions
    regarding the present offerings mentioned above (or any others for
    that matter) as all the articles I have read seem to say pretty
    much the same about anything! (I didn't realise that R/C Model World
    & Model HELICOPTER World (title?) were produced by the same people
    until I read the two rightups for the new Futaba PCM gear which
    were word for word copies!!)                                   
    
    	Anyone know anything about the new Concept thing?
    
    Ken (the bug is gnawing deeper) Lee.

    Hi Ken,
    I can't tell you much about the other radios, but you might want
    to see if you can find someone who gets Helicopter International.
    They had a review of the Futaba 1024 in either the last issue or 
    the one before it. Also, when Robert Gorham showed up at our heli
    fun-fly, he was trusting his GMP Legend the the 1024.
    
    By the way, the Helicopter International magazine I'm refering to
    is the one that use to be called RC Helicopter Magazine.
    
    Dan Eaton

    Thanks Dan,
    	I have read a couple of reviews in various mags (probably including
    that one) but I think the 1024 will be out of my price range. I
    haven't actually seen a price for it yet but it's bound to be
    mega-pennies!
    	It looks to me like the new generation of computerised all-singing
    all-dancing radios are pretty much alike. What I am looking for
    is a good reliable set, reasonably priced, with enough bells and
    whistles to get my chopper in the air with least effort. (being
    a part time fun flyer I don't know if I need full inverted capabilities
    as I don't intend cutting the grass with it!... maybe in a few years!)
    
    Ken.

    Hi Ken,
    
    	I must admit that I did think of buying one of the all singing/all
    dancing sets at over 500 pounds, but then sense prevailed.
    	I am pretty impressed with the APEX set (the set I got was labelled
    McGregor, but they are the same set). It is nice to be able to set
    everything from the keypad. Digital readouts for everything, no
    need to remember how many turns approx. I would think that someone
    experienced with R/C equipment (which I am not) would find it a
    piece of cake to set up. As I said in the previous note, I am intending
    to run without many of the bells until I know that I wont use them
    by accident. 
    	From my limited experience, I woul recommend the JR APEX 6 Heli
    Computer set (PCM). Looks good to me and didn't quite break the
    bank.
    
    Have fun,
    
    		Allan.

    Ken,
    I am using a JR Galaxy 8, which is a computerized 8 channel
    PCM set.  It sounds like the JR Apex 6 might be similar.  I know
    that JR has recently introduced a new radio over here that is
    PCM, I think 6 channels, and is programmable like the Galaxy.
    I know that I like mine, and having the readouts on the settings
    is a big plus.  As mentioned, it takes some of the  guesswork out.
    If the JR Apex 6 is indeed the radio I think it is, I think it would
    make an excellent choice, although I am not sure of the selling
    price.

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Ken,
    
    That sounds like the one I have got. I really must get some help
    with it though, the set-up of my Mini-boy is well out.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan.
    
    p.s. That's a neat little drawing you have there.
    
     <		________                  >
     <	 /	  __|__                   >
     <	=========[_____\>                 >
     <	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,>
     <			    Ken    	  >
     <                                    >
    

    Thanks fellas,
    	It sounds like the APEX 6 Heli Computer would be the one but
    unfortunately, this weekends trip north proved a bit much for the
    old banger so the more urgent requirements for a new car have well
    and truely sunk any ideas about new gear! One day perhaps but for
    now it looks like someone up there doesn't like the idea of me blasting
    a motorised machette in his direction ! :-)
    	At least the bits arrived (well most of them) so I'll get the
    clutch fixed and just have to make do with the standard radio.
    
    	Thanks for the call Brian, I found the pub so I think I'll just
    pay regular visits till the boys turn up ( all that drinking's going
    to be hell but I'll try!! :-).)
    
    Ken (not_the_break-a-blade_variety) Lee.

    	After 2 months of humming an' haying and waiting for ALL the
    right bits, I finally got the beast out on Sunday half expecting
    not to be able to fly because of the crowds but there wasn't any
    sign of anyone at either of the sites I tried. I decided not to
    risk switching on in case there was some official reason that noone
    was around (if in doubt, don't do it).
    
    	Is the building site down by the Thames still flyable?
    
    	Where else does everyone fly around Reading?
             
    
    Ken I'll_get_there_one_day Lee.
                               

    Sorry Ken I can't help with the question, but next time I am down
    that way, how's about getting together. I don't make regular trips,
    but I will let you know.
    
    I am afraid that I haven't had the miniboy out for some time know.
    But I intend to trim her out during the Xmas break. I am fortunate
    in that I live in the country, with no neighbours, so I can fly
    from my garden.
    
    Take care,
    
    	Allan.

    Hi Allan,
    	Sure thing! If your coming down this way give us a buzz and
    we can maybe get these little beasts off the deck.
    
    	Seems like everyone else has disappeared (probably off to see
    Al in the sun for crickle-mass :-)), but they'll probably pop up
    in the new year I would think. I'm heading home for the festive
    period (couldn't miss out on Hogmany!) and am trying to decide whether
    to try and cram the chopper in the boot with all the pressies (how
    does Santa manage?).
    
    	There are plenty open fields around but I didn't dare get the
    goodies out in case :- 1) There was an official flying field just
    around the corner, out of sight & sound but not R.F.! and 2) Some
    irrate farmer gets his shot-gun out just to prove that the English
    still have trespass laws!
    
    One day my time will come...
    
    	Ken.

    Can someone please help !!
    
    I am trying to set up my Miniboy blade pitches and I could do with
    some more info on approx settings than is in the building instructions.
    I managed last time, but that was a while ago and was under the
    scrutiny of Joe Anderson of Lanark.
    
    All help gratefully received.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan

    I have since sold my miniboy and instructions, but if I remember
    correctly, the collective should be about 2 1/2 to 3 degrees at 
    mid-throttle (hover) and the tail rotor should be about 6 degrees
    at the same throttle setting.  I think that this would give you
    a good starting point.  I am not sure what you have for a radio
    but if you have a heli radio, you can start from there and modify
    the settings with hover throttle trim and hover pitch adjustments.

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    
    	Thanks Ken, I will give them a try.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan.

   Hi all
    
    Nice to see that there are people in dec uk flying choppers. I have
    been flying for almost a year now but must confess that i made a
    great mistake in the the model i purchased. Dare i say it, I bought
    an mfa sport 500. After a lot of breakages i saw the light and am
    now the proud owner of a shuttle. At present i fly most weekends
    weather and commitments allowing. I am trying at present to master
    tail in circuit and hope to go on to small circuits soon. The only
    problem I have is that the radio is an aircraft set and the pitch
    and throttle are on a y lead. This gives problems on windy days
    when the helicopter balloons upward and you end up having to reduce
    throttle and pitch a long way to bring it down. If your not ready
    for it this can almost certainly end in disaster. Soon i hope to
    have the money for an apex computer radio. Is there any body else
    with shuttles out there, Id like to hear from you.
    
    		regards Jim burnley @WLO
    

    Hi Jim,
    
    	I don't have a shuttle, but I do fly (or try to !) a Schluter 
    Miniboy with 5 servos and a JR computer 6 heli (I can never remember 
    the model number!).
     
    	Very impressed with both. The radio is something else when you
    move from the standard Futaba Challenger to the computer, although
    there is so much more to setup, it is very easy.
 
    	I have only seen the Shuttle fly once, and that was by somone
    experienced in fixed wing, but with almost no time in Heli's. Very
    spectacular. What appeared to me to be a bumpy but not excessive
    landing resulted in a very dramatic explosion of bits from a tail boom 
    strike.
    
    	Good luck with the flying, and I definately recommend the JR
    Computer.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan.
    

    John Rutter here, I have signed in briefly already...
    
    I am in the process of building an MFA Sport 500 (fixed pitch),
    which is to run with an Irvine .40 engine when complete.
    
    Question about my build-up, should I run-in the engine or not ?
    Elsewhere it has been stated that this is not required for a heli,
    but that is an old note and that viewpoint may no longer apply.
    
    I would like to know if there is anyone using this conference,
    in the UK, who is interested in RC Heli's.  If so, where ?
    
    I would like to take steps to join a suitable club (S.E.England)
    and/or meet up with like-minded persons.  At present, I do not
    know how to go about this - anyone out there who can help ?
    
    I expect I should join some 'licensed body' too, is there a
    particular one for heli's, or for any RC aviation ?
    
    How do I go about insurance ?
    
    Any other tips/advice (I do know that I will need an instructor) ?
    
    J.R.

    Well, a year since I entered the previous reply against this note,
    and I've only just got something done !
    
    I'll try and answer some of the questions I asked before, in case
    anyone else wishes to agree/disagree, or whatever :-
    
>>    Question about my build-up, should I run-in the engine or not ?
>>    Elsewhere it has been stated that this is not required for a heli,
>>    but that is an old note and that viewpoint may no longer apply.
    
    At the local club, I was recommended not to bother running-in the
    engine out of the model.  This is all the more so, since I am an
    absolute beginner and will not really be *using* the engine.
    
>>    I would like to know if there is anyone using this conference,
>>    in the UK, who is interested in RC Heli's.  If so, where ?
    
    Thanks to the people who have contacted me via Mail...
    
    
>>    I would like to take steps to join a suitable club (S.E.England)
>>    and/or meet up with like-minded persons.  At present, I do not
>>    know how to go about this - anyone out there who can help ?
    
    As explained (at some length) in note 824.4, I found a club that
    is solely concerned with R/C heli's, and is very local to my home.
    Since membership runs from Jan-to-Jan, I will officially join them
    in the new year.
    
>>    I expect I should join some 'licensed body' too, is there a
>>    particular one for heli's, or for any RC aviation ?
    
    The club is a member of the British R/C body (forgotten the name - BMFA?)
    
>>    How do I go about insurance ?
    
    Club membership includes insurance cover, provided through the national
    body for the sport.
    
    
    As for my model, I've just entered a note describing the problems that
    I had in just getting the engine running.  Anyway, once over this
    hurdle, I had the trim set up by the experienced 'pilot'.  This turned
    out to be fairly close to correct settings, surprisingly.
    
    Following this check, the guy then went and flew the model !!!
    I was really pleased, and somewhat suprised.  After all, I put
    this kit together over a year ago, recently messed about with it
    and lo and behold, the thing can actually fly !
    
    Now, I need to get some training undecarriage and try it myself.
    Of course, this is where the grief will set in, with the expected
    sequence being, hop/wobble/skip the model a bit, then a dump of
    some sort involving any number of breakages.  Follow this with a
    period of getting spares, fitting them, and trying it all again.
    
    Any comments as to how long it is likely to be before I am perhaps
    able to hover the thing ?
    	a) If I only get to try it once a week (a few hours each Sunday)
    	b) If I try it every other day if at all possible
    
    J.R.

    I got my first real attempt at using my heli this weekend.
    
    The weather forecast was for no wind, clear conditions all weekend.
    Saturday bore this out fine.  Sunday being flying day, things were
    different.  There was certainly no wind at all.  Trouble is, that
    what there was, was lots of thick fog.  To make things worse, the
    temperature was low enough for this to result in frost as well.
    
    I still went to the flying site, expecting no-one else to turn up.
    I was wrong about that, there were eight flyers present, but none
    of them were flying at the time.  This wasn't because of the poor
    visibility, but because the blades kept icing up !
    
    The fixed pitch models had a particularly bad time of it, since
    the airfoil section soon disappeared with an ice covering, and
    the weight also went up.  This meant that they sometimes would
    not lift off at all, even with full throttle.  The models with
    larger engines coped better with this situation.  Having control
    of the collective also seemed to help a bit in generating lift.
    
    As the morning went on, temperatures seemed to improve slightly,
    so a number of models were actually put into the air.  So, I
    fitted the training gear to mine, fuelled up and tried to start it.
    Of course, being cold meant that engines were taking longer to fire up.
    
    In my case, I then had a problem that the drive pulley decided to slip
    on the crankshaft.  This meant that I had to remove the exhaust to lock
    the crank, then remove the crank nut, take off the pulleys, clean up
    all the surfaces and put things back together with a decent amount of
    threadlock.  Originally, in this assembly, I had only used this stuff
    on the actual nut.  This time, I used it where the pulleys slid onto
    the crankshaft as well.  I didn't want a repeat performance.
    
    So, having got all this started (with fingers feeling the cold), it
    was time to get the engine running and time to 'play'.  Next problem,
    someone else was on the same frequency, so I had to wait for him to
    finish his stint.  In the end, I got the heli running, and carried
    out to see what happens...
    
    This was my first time at attempting to control a helicopter, so it
    consisted of increasing the throttle, seeing what happens and try to
    correct it.  When too much seemed to be happening, I reduced the
    throttle and tried again.  Initial problems seemed to be that the
    engine was 'pulsing' and not running smoothly.  The needle was then
    adjusted so that it ran more rich to try and alleviate this problem.
    
    Next problem, full throttle was needed before the heli would even
    start to lift the skids (actually the training gear) from the ground.
    This was caused by the blades having iced up, so between restarts
    the blades had to be cleaned off.  This meant that when first started,
    the heli had much more response than after it had been running for a
    few minutes.  Not helpful for an absolute beginner !
    
    I felt that I could now get some semblance of what moving the
    transmitter control sticks actually did to the heli, all without
    getting more than two points off the ground (of the four on the gear)
    at any one time.  At least the rudder was not causing me any real
    problems, the gyro seemed to be keeping that fairly straight, but
    without preventing any change in direction.
    
    The next problem to make itself apparent was that the engine 'pulsing'
    was still showing up.  Looking into things, the fuel line had a number
    of bubbles in it, since the tank was foaming whilst running.  This
    meant that the engine frequently ran on a lean setting, as the bubbles
    made there way through to the carb.  This problem also got worse as
    running time increased, as the fuel got shaken up more and more.
    
    It was obvious that this would require a new method of mounting the
    fuel tank to avoid the problem.  Still, I could still get the feel
    of the controls with short running times before fuel foaming and
    iced up blades required a stop and restart.
    
    One other problem then showed itself, in that the tail of the model
    appeared to have less control than earlier in the day.  I feared that
    something was probably coming lose or whatever, but upon stopping it
    was clear that this was simply where the tail rotors too were icing up.
    As these run at a lower [tip] speed, this wasn't so common a problem,
    but still needed attention between flights.
    
    Having gone through all of these niggly problems, I then ended up
    with a simple mistake.  The model lifted up the right hand side, I
    applied some right stick to try and even things up, but it carried on
    lifting, once at a 45-degree attitude, I was on full right stick and
    it didn't seem to be improving, so I dropped the throttle.  By then, it
    was too late and the model had decided to flip over completely !
    
    So, my first time out, my first crunch !!!
    
    Damage to the model was actually minimal.  The [balsa] trailing edge 
    of one blade had a nick out of it, where it had gone back into the
    blade holder.  Other than that, all seemed fine...   Phew.
    
    One accident for the day was enough, so I put the frequency flag
    back on the peg board and packed up the model.  Although I think it
    survived, due to the lack of height and speed involved, I planned on
    checking things out at home before trying it all again.  I still don't
    know quite why the model continued over even though I had full right
    stick, and will probably never find out.
    
    I had previously been told that the control response was fairly slow.
    This is recommended in the building instructions for beginners, by
    using a short connection from the swashplate to the flybar driver.
    The idea of this is that an over responsive model will be harder to
    fly.  The flip side is that there is less response available when any
    corrective action is required.  I don't know what is worse.  I may
    increase the control response before going out again, but I think I
    will keep it less than the maximum available.  Any comments ?
    
    This impromptu display earned the comment that -
    
    	"It's a bit early to be learning inverted flight, isn't it ?'
    
    At least the damage was minimal, I'll be out again soon...
    
    J.R.

    Having gotten around to checking my helicopter to see what happened
    to it when it decided to turn turtle, I found what went wrong.
    
    The servo tray had basically come unstuck !
    
    This of course meant that when the tray tilted, it pulled the linkage(s),
    which then took control of the heli.  This would explain why full right
    stick didn't have any effect in avoiding my accident.  I don't think
    that the breakage occurred when the model went over, since it was
    really a quite soft landing.  This theory would at least explain
    why I lost control and couldn't stop the accident from happening.
    
    So, I removed this area of woodwork and set about repairing things.
    Since the servo tray construction was simply glued to a flat plane,
    I didn't want to simply stick it back and hope for the best.
    This time, I fixed some supports to the flat surface, so that gave
    the tray a much better 'connection'.  I also sanded down the edges
    to try and provide an improved surface for gluing.  Once stuck in
    place, with the glue dried, I then run another bead of glue around
    the join, hoping that this will add to the strength.
    
    Next job was to make up a new fuel tank mount.  The existing method
    used a couple of spring clips which held the [circular] tank.
    These clips were bolted to the main frame of the model, right on the
    back of the engine crankcase.  I didn't have anywhere else convenient
    to put the tank, so it had to stay in basically the same position
    (which also avoids C of G problems for me).  What I did was to
    make a simple wooden plate, which was bolted to the frame in the
    same position as the original spring clips.  This wooden plate
    then had some small holes drilled into it in pairs, through which
    I used three cable ties, each of which held a rubber band.  The bands
    were just the right size to hold the tank quite snug.  I also put some
    foam tape onto the wood where the tank would rest.  These mods seemed
    to be a reasonable effort at reducing the chance of engine vibration
    shaking up the fuel in the tank, but still kept the tank quite
    firmly in the correct place.
    
    Right, having done these jobs and checked blades, mast etc,
    it seemed time to try it out again - flying day being Sunday.
    
    This particular time out, the engine started up reasonably easy.
    My modification to the fuel tank mount certainly seemed to be working,
    since I did not experience problems with fuel foaming.
    
    I then proceeded to go through the stages of increasing throttle,
    watching for what the model wanted to do, try to correct, and
    increase power until the training gear was trying to leave the ground,
    followed by all sorts of control variations in an attempt to get
    the model in the air without it heading off in whatever direction,
    nor for it to take up any odd attitudes.
    
    During this session, I feel I actually made some small progress,
    since for a very short time I did get the model about one foot off
    the ground, without it moving too much in any particular direction.
    Even so, I would not describe this as 'hovering', but for a raw
    beginner it is at least something.
    
    Once the fuel level got low and I thought it time to stop and refuel,
    I decided to cut the engine.  Throttle right back, trim right back.
    Huh, the engine was still running !  I moved the stick up and down
    a few times, but it still would not shut off.  Oh well, let's just
    wait for it to run out...  Watching and waiting for this event seemed
    to take forever, even when operating the throttle to use up a bit
    more juice.  Immediate solution to this one was for someone (a volunteer)
    to pick the rear of the model up and lift it until the fuel pickup
    went dry.  This meant getting a firm hold of the tailplane without
    getting attacked by either tail or main rotor blades, easy enough.
    Then, tipping the model up required consideration to avoid getting
    the front of the rotor disc to touch ground.  Of course, having a
    'clunk' on the fuel pickup meant that this activity did not work
    straight away.  After a short while at this attitude, the engine
    did at last stop running, so the model was put down for me.
    
    I at first thought that my work on the servo tray must have resulted
    in the linkage being changed, but since it went back into its original
    position, I didn't feel that could have been so.  Also, the linkages
    for the rest of the model control were still fine.
    
    Still on the flying field, I adjusted the throttle linkage to ensure
    that the 'off' position would really mean 'off'.  I then refuelled and
    checked the operation of the throttle from the radio set.  At least I
    didn't just start it up and try it, the throttle was now moving in
    fits and starts.  On full throttle, the linkage would not move at first,
    then it would shoot to the wide open setting.  The reverse was also true.
    
    At that point, I decided it was time to pack up and take the model home
    for further investigation.  At a guess, it would seem that the throttle
    barrel is actually sticking, but I will go over the area of the complete
    linkage to find out just what is really going wrong.
    
    Whatever, that won't be for a while, since I'm going on holiday later
    this week.  It'll be another of those jobs that will have to wait
    until after the holiday...
    
    I hope no-one minds my entering these notes, seeing as how they show
    the trials and tribulations of learning to fly a model helicopter.
    If anyone wishes to make comments, please feel free to do so...
    
    J.R.

    Keep them notes a comming, J.R.
    I too am learning to fly the a WhirlyBird.

>>    Keep them notes a comming, J.R.
    
    OK, as requested...
    
    I haven't had many attempts at flying recently (basically every other
    Sunday).  Nearly every time I went to the flying field (usually late
    in the day too), I ended up with an engine-related problem of some sort.
    
    Not sure what I've described already, but I have an Irvine 40 engine
    and they *apparently* have a not-too-good reputation for blowing lots
    of fuel around outside the engine and for the carb coming loose.
    
    Well, there is certainly a lot of fuel spray around the woodwork and
    mechanics near the engine.  I was wondering if perhaps the pressure
    feed would be making this worse - maybe by forcing fuel through the
    carb and that actually getting blown out of the intake ?  Of course,
    the fan then blows whatever spray there is all over the model...
    
    The carb body is held into the engine by two grub screws, on opposing
    sides of the body (mounted into the engine crankcase).  I have had a
    couple of problems in this area - both caused by these screws coming
    loose (even though I use threadlock).  On one occasion, the carb ended
    up wobbling around and giving very odd engine response.  To tighten
    these screws up, the exhaust has to be removed too.  So, on another
    occasion, the screws decided that they weren't going to hold the carb
    quite tight enough.  This had the worse effect that when the throttle
    servo pushed the linkage, the carb body twisted in the crankcase,
    rather than the throttle barrel turning.  This meant that throttle
    reaction was either delayed, or ineffective.  When I tried to shut
    off the engine (about as soon as I spotted the problem), it wouldn't
    close the throttle enough to choke the engine.  Solution then is to
    either lift the tail high enough to starve the engine of fuel (not
    easy due to the tank having a 'clunk' on the fuel feed line), or to
    stretch on the ground and put a finger on the exhaust.
    The other engine (sorry, carb) problem is that the groove in the
    throttle barrel had a 'cam screw' in the carb body which work together
    in the way that rotating the barrel moves it in and out to change
    the mixture (normal carb operation I would guess).  Anyhow, on this
    engine, the screw was not engaging in the slot well enough.  The result
    has been that the screw wore down the edge of the groove, making it's
    own, much shallower groove.  First effect this has is that the throttle
    barrel can move in and out, effecting the mixture without the barrel
    being rotated at all.  The second, much more serious, effect is that
    the throttle sticks !  I did find that where the cam screw goes into
    the carb body, there was a raised 'burr' which prevented it going in
    as far as it should.  I filed this down, smoothed off some of the
    edge of the faulty groove in the throttle barrel and tried again.
    After a couple of tank-fulls, the problem reappeared.
    
    Now, I have to get at least a new barrel and screw, perhaps a complete
    carburettor (it should be cheap anyhow, but inconvenient).  I also
    found that one of the mounting screws came a bit loose yet again.
    My solution there will be to use longer screws with a socket head,
    assuming I can find some that suit.  I did also make a couple of small
    indentations on the carb body to enable these screws to grip better,
    but with all the vibration in the engine, I doubt that helps enough.
    
    
    
    As to the flying - this last Sunday was the first real chance I got
    to have a go.  I had (temporarily, it turns out) sorted the engine
    problems and got to the flying field earlier than usual.
    
    I had also made up a flight box that contained the 12v starter battery,
    starter motor, control panel, tool box, radio tx and fuel container.
    This certainly aided the setting up of the model (fueling and starting)
    and gave me a better feeling than the previous, haphazard collection
    of boxes and leads.
    
    I spent some time trying to get off the ground slowly, and soon got
    caught out by a gust of wind which gave me the lift I wanted, but a
    lot quicker than I had expected.  Once in the air (3-4 foot high), I
    made various attempts at trying to keep the model pointing in the
    right direction and also to try and keep it in the right place.
    Not too successful here, cutting throttle to come to abrupt landings
    whenever I 'bottled out'.  Someone else in the club then came to
    give me some advice.  Partly on holding the joysticks - I was using
    my thumbs on the tips of the sticks, he suggested actually gripping
    them between finger and thumb.  The other comment was that I appeared
    to be reacting to the model, rather than trying to actually control it.
    
    So, engine still running with a fair amount of fuel left, I made a
    few more attempts at take-off and hover.  Concentrating on not putting
    it down and not always reacting to the model - instead I was thinking
    'I want it to go forwards a bit' - 'left a bit' - 'even up a bit'.
    This frame of mind seemed to make a fair different (rather than -
    'its going forward, use back stick' - 'going back, use right stick' etc).
    
    Anyhow, to sum up if possible, I managed to do a couple of half-decent
    attempts at hovering, generally at about 4-5 foot height.  I did hold
    position for up to 15 seconds at a time - it seemed like ages !!!
    Then again, when I found the model moving, it did cover quite a lot of
    ground...  I got another full tank-full of flying attempts and at
    least ended up feeling quite please with myself.  I also got a big
    cheer from the other flyers when I flew the model away from me and
    brought it back somewhat, without putting it down on the ground !
    
    When I do get the engine/carb sorted, I'll be back out again with a bit
    more confidence and see how things go (until the next breakage).
    
    J.R.

    Well, I phoned Irvine engines to ask about the carb problem I've had
    and they quite promptly said "send it in and we'll fix it for you" !
    
    No charge for the work, but a 'handling charge' is preferred.
    
    So I took the carb off the engine and sent it off to them last night.
    
    When I get it back (supposedly return post, same day as receipt) I'll
    be able to try again with my model.  If it then behaves properly, I
    hope to be able to make some real progress (or crash v.soon  ;-).
    
    One question I do have, is with regard the 12v battery I use for the
    starter.  I have a trickle charger, but how long should that be on for ?
    I have no way of knowing the condition of the battery and don't want
    to either overcharge it (could I ?) or to run flat on the flying field.
    
    Any suggestions ?
    
    J.R.

    One thing to consider (although it sounds too late). Send in the entire
    engine. I've seen mixture adjustment problems due to the seal between
    the carb and the engine. These don't get fixed if all you send in is
    the carb. Not to mention that every engine is slightly different and
    what works on one might be wrong for another with a different break-in
    level.

>>    One thing to consider (although it sounds too late). Send in the entire
>>    engine. 
    
    Well, yes, it is a bit late, but thanks for offering advice anyhow.
    
>>    engine. I've seen mixture adjustment problems due to the seal between
>>    the carb and the engine. These don't get fixed if all you send in is
    
    On this engine, the seal is made by an O-ring on the carb body.
    I'll certainly pay attention when refitting the carb to ensure that
    it makes a good seal (when I get it back, hopefully very soon).
    
    J.R.

    Further to my saga of carburettor problems on my Irvine, they have
    returned my carb.  In the 'overhaul', they replaced the needle, on
    which the knurling is much rougher now, so less likely that the needle
    may self-adjust due to vibration.  Also, the main change is that the
    throttle barrel is now made of steel.  The previous one was made of
    brass, which was apparently too soft for the job of running the
    guide screw in a milled slot.
    
    I wonder if all current models of this carb have a steel barrel ?
    
    To avoid the carb from coming lose in the engine casing, I drilled a
    couple of 'indentations' in the side of the carb to help the grub screws
    gain a much better purchase on the carb body when tightened up.
    I also replaced the engine plate, which had fractured.  I smoothed off
    all the edges on the plate, hoping to reduce the chances of another
    fracture.  If it does happen again, I'll drill different mounting holes.
    
    Due to Sunday being Mother's Day, and the weather being dreadful, I
    didn't get the chance to try it all out.  I'm usually too busy in the
    week to attempt flying, so I have to wait until next weekend...
    
    J.R.

    Could anyone give me any hints or tips on looking at this chopper which
    I'm considering buying:
    "os32 concept 30SE with some six upgrades,ready to hover with Futaba
    airborn radio and gyro.295 pounds"
    
    Any help would be much appreciated.
    
    TYRONE
    

 Tyrone,
this may be a little late but here's my $.02 

When buying a package like this, give the copter a quick look over the general
condition of the ship. Is everything there?  Helicopters have an advantage over
most RC aircraft in that you can easily restore them to their original pristine
self by just replacing the bad parts so if this is needed let your wallet be 
your guide. Even a basket case can be a good deal if the price is right. If 
everything is present and at least appears to be in good mechanical condition 
then move onto the motor.

If possible have the seller run the motor for you. Find out how old the motor is
and check to see how much crude (if any) has accumulated on it. The thing to 
look for is that  you're not getting an old klunker of an engine that you're 
going to have to replace shortly. Motors are expensive and having to replace
one will definitely take the shine off the deal.

Next check the RC gear. Is this a helicopter radio? Getting a regular radio 
would definitely nix the sale for me. The Concept can be flown with a regular 
four channel radio but I wouldn't recommend it.

    Re -1.Thanks for the reply,it is much appreciated.I am a complete
    beginner,I've been considering buying a new concept,but when I first
    read the advert it sounded just what I needed and at a good price.I
    must admit that if it has a 'Heli' radio with it,then it sounds like a
    bargain,but if it is a normal aircraft radio I don't need it as I
    bought one the other day with a half built plane and all the equipment
    I need for 50 pounds.
     Does anyone know the age of the concept os32 30SE?
    
    Tyrone
    

    I phoned this morning and it's been sold.So any recomendations for a
    helicopter for the beginner and radio would be welcome.
    
    Tyrone
    

Tyrone,
I fly a Concept 30 DX and would highly recommend it. However, I have talked to
other people and have heard of the Concept's not being as robust in the hands
of a beginner as compared to the Shuttle. If you go with the Shuttle, the newer
versions or suppose to be nice ships. I've flown both and find that the head on
the Concept causes it to be very smooth while the Shuttle is more responsive.

Depending on the conditions, I'm sure you would do  well with either the
Concept or the Shuttle in a 30 sized ship. What I'd really suggest though is 
that you get in contact with some heli flyiers who are local to you and find 
out what works and doesn't work in your neck of the woods. 

The key to learning to fly copters is to spend a lot of time flying during 
the early stages. If you have to wait weeks to get parts for your copter because
the local shop doesn't stock parts for the 'best' copter then seriously 
consider buying the second 'best' that has readily available parts. Here's
where talking to the local flyiers before buying can save you a lot of money 
in the long run.
                                                        /     \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented                                   /      / \ 
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            Pilot                                    /        #
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                            l 
                                                       

    
    	Hi Tyrone,
    
    	If you have not yet joined a club, I suggest you don't buy
    	anything yet.  
    
    	You will not be able to fly a heli or fixed wing without help,
    	so its better to get something your helper or instructor is
    	familiar with.  Quite often club members have gear for sale
    	that they have outgrown which is ideal for new fliers to
    	learn on.
    
    	Speak to the club members and find out what is their favourite.
    
    	BTW the fixed wing gear you mentioned in the other note sounds
    	fine.
    
    	good luck
    
    	Brian

    Thanks for the replies.I went into my nearest shop the other day,and
    they support the concept 30 well,so I bought one.They will also help me
    in learning to fly it as they are in the local club which has quite a
    few helicopters.
     I must admit that I didn't think much of the instructions,they were a
    bit vague.I've just started reading the "Modellers World" helicopter
    special for beginners.
    
    Tyrone
    

    Well,I actually flew (just about hovered) my concept thirty yesterday.I
    found it hard as it was quite windy,but it was good to actually get
    into the air (alright,about a few inches in the air).The club in
    Reading has quite a few Helicopters,and the concept range is well known
    to them.
    
    Tyrone