Conference vmszoo::rc

    I was reading through my lastest issue of TIME this weekend and
    ran acros their ad about the history of aviation. They give you
    a nice poster ofrecent jet fighters is you join..Star & center is
    the HARRIER.. 
    
    This got me wondering whether anyone had/was attempting to build
    a model of this beast.. Imagine: The best of both worlds: Aircraft
    & helicopters rolled into one
    
    md

    MARC,
    
    See the commentary by Bob Day on a recent U.K. ducted fan event (286.1)
    and you'll find some comments on a prototype Harrier model.  (Sounds 
    hairier [pun intended] to me than a "conventional" jet.
    
    Adios,	Al

   

 
>    This got me wondering whether anyone had/was attempting to build
>   a model of this beast.. Imagine: The best of both worlds: Aircraft
>   & helicopters rolled into one
    
   

	There is a guy in the UK building one... He's had a couple of 
	'Harrier shaped' test rigs flying. These have puffer jets,
	controlled by the aileron/elevator controls to stabilise the
	plane in the hover.. He appeared to use plastic waste pipe
	for the main thrust nozzles.. Also looked like a Byrojet
	was the used for propulsion. Does anybody else make a 
	pusher fan?..... There was a short report on it in one of the
	mags recently, didn't go into much detail tho.
	
	These rigs were at Abingdon, but he didn't fly them. He 
	also had a proper Harrier, as yet unfinished. It looked 
	like it just needed covering... That was june time. I
	would imaging it's nearing completion now....

	bob                                                    

    What's a "puffer jet"?
    
    Dan Eaton

Re: -.2

<	There is a guy in the UK building one... He's had a couple of 
<	'Harrier shaped' test rigs flying. These have puffer jets,
<	controlled by the aileron/elevator controls to stabilise the
<	plane in the hover.. He appeared to use plastic waste pipe
<	for the main thrust nozzles.. Also looked like a Byrojet
<	was the used for propulsion. Does anybody else make a 
<	pusher fan?..... There was a short report on it in one of the
<	mags recently, didn't go into much detail tho.
	
<	These rigs were at Abingdon, but he didn't fly them. He 
<	also had a proper Harrier, as yet unfinished. It looked 
<	like it just needed covering... That was june time. I
<	would imaging it's nearing completion now....

Actually Bob it was two different guys. The two painted models were mockups
belonging to one guy, the other in the virgin wood was reported in June or July
RCM&E. The fan is a work of art, it is an own design using $$$$$$$ of carbon
fire. The thrust nozzles are as Bob said plastic plumbing elbows using servo 
motors with a helical drive system. 

The model will be powered by an OS46VF with open exhaust. There is no room for 
a pipe or muffler, the fan will also be an own design. The model is 
exceptionally light to give it every possibility of flying.

john

       
    
    	re .6
    
    		I sorted out the magazine with the harrier info in.
    	True to form I forgot to bring it in today... Try again
    	tomorrow...  It mentioned he uses an OPS 45 and a Micro Mold
    	fan unit. from this he's got 5 1/2 pounds of vertical thrust
    	from the nozzles so far.. Finished plane is expected to come
    	out around 5 lbs weight...... It's around 1/9 scale....
    
    
    		Puffer jets are air jets at each wingtip,and i guess
    	front and back to control the plane in the horizontal plane.
    	these are controlled with the aileron servos....
    
    
    
    		Interestingly enough the most reliable planes at 
    	Abingdon were those of the Thorpe Bros... They use straight
    	fuel.....
                 
    
    		One guy at our field was trying to gat a BAE Hawk off.
    	You really must get the maz revs, or it just won't get up..
    	Fans are at they're most inefficient when the plane speed is
    low, so revs count....
    
    
    	Must fly teacher has turned up..
    
    	bob

    A DF modeler in England has a Harrier about 2/3 completed...it'll
    be interesting to hear how it goes.
    
    Adios,	Al

As a simpler alternatite to gyros a pitch and roll set of electrostatic
sensors might work. They've been talked about in another note but I
forget which one.

    I have this blurb about this RAF type has a Harrier almost complete
    (.45 powered). This is also, in the the current issue of RCM an
    article on A DF meet held in the UK. One of the planes present
    was a Sea Harrier. Author invites inquiries (there is an address
    at the end of the article) about any plane mentionned.
    
    md

    I have seen the UK harrier at one of our, Uk, model shows, part completed,
    looked very impressive, with lots of ducts and other strange devices.
    If you decide to build one and have problems I would be happy to
    attempt to find out how the UK aircraft was configured or any other 
    information you required.
    
    
    						Mel Proudfoot
    						RAF Sales Unit
    						

    pls find out all you can about HArrier models. It's next on my list
    of "dream" projects (after I get done with  the ME-262)
    
    I'm looking to build a 1/6 scale version of this wonder.
    
    md
    
    BTW, This is the Trivia question of the day: Who designed the HARRIER?
    
         Also can you name 3 other planes he designed ?
    
    (Those who who the answer to these questions will pls refrain from
    answering for about a week. Let other sweat this on out !!)
    
    

>       BTW, This is the Trivia question of the day: Who designed the HARRIER?
>   
>       Also can you name 3 other planes he designed
    
    Was it Sopwith?
    It seems like I heard something on the radio the other day that
    he had just died.  He designed the Sopwith camel and a couple of
    other planes, one of which he named after a long time friend/business
    partner whose name escapes me.

Can any of you Brits help.
I would like the mailing address of Mike Koskelka.
His picture was in the Dec-1989 Model Airplane News 
hovering his Harrier.  This was at a Fan-Fly in
a now-inactive RAF base called Wroughton 70 miles
west of London on the 25th of June.

Any leads would be appreciated.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
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    I cannot find the base note for this topic ... so Mr Moderator,
    would you please delete/move this dialog when it is complete.
    
    Someone asked, a little while ago, about Mike Koskela's Harrier VTOL
    model and experiments.
    
    If you would like some info, I found some last night while thumbing
    thru' some old magazines.
    
    The August & September 1988 issues of Radio Modeller ran a two part
    article on his experimants to date ( I believe he has had more success
    since but cannot find the article ).
    
    If you would like a photocopy let me know ( the original is B&W
    with a couple of photos so should copy OK ).
    
    If you would like, I could also call the publisher/editor and see
    if I can get an address for Mike Koskela for correspondence. I couls
    also check whether there is a later article.
    
    Regards
    
    Brian
    

    This is something I wouldn't mind having a crack at building, if
    its feasible.
    
    Angus

    There was a picture in an article in either MA or MAN (the only mags I
    get) within the last two issues that featured a Harrier model, in hover.
    The caption talked briefly about the builders success in achieving
    hover, and said that he had yet to manage transition to foward flight.

><<< Note 1214.0 by HAMPS::WARWICK_B "Stay young -- keep your wheels in motion" >>>
>                -< Who was looking for Mike Koskela & Harrier? >-
>
>    I cannot find the base note for this topic ... so Mr Moderator,
>    would you please delete/move this dialog when it is complete.
>    
>    Someone asked, a little while ago, about Mike Koskela's Harrier VTOL
>    model and experiments.

Twas I who asked.  In the scale note I believe (271.*).
    
>    If you would like some info, I found some last night while thumbing
>    thru' some old magazines.
>    
>    The August & September 1988 issues of Radio Modeller ran a two part
>    article on his experimants to date ( I believe he has had more success
>    since but cannot find the article ).
>    
>    If you would like a photocopy let me know ( the original is B&W
>    with a couple of photos so should copy OK ).

Yes - please send me a copy at LTN1-2/B17
    
>    If you would like, I could also call the publisher/editor and see
>    if I can get an address for Mike Koskela for correspondence. I couls
>    also check whether there is a later article.
>    
>    Regards
>    
>    Brian

Actually after I've seen his flying in the DECRCM video (V-9) I am kinda
disappointed in his progress and putting my dreams of a Harrier on the
way back burner.  But I would like any newer articles and if you are
calling the publisher/editor for that and can get Mikes address I would
add it to my Harrier documentation pile.  I think I have some ideas that
can solve the instability problem but I don't have the time necessary to
devote to experiments.  

Still hoping a "STABLE" harrier design is developed and kitted soon as
I don't think I have the talent, persistence, money, and guts to be the
first.  But I do love those Harriers.

I have a good trivia question to ask about Harriers but I have to get
one correct first :-)

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################
    

    Kay,
    
    A photocopy of the articles is in the mail to you.
    
    I will call to get any more info -- watch for updates.
    
    Brian
    

    Here's the update ....
    
    I called the editor of Radio Modeller and he does not recall publishing
    any further articles on this subject.
    
    Further they do not, as a matter of principle, give out addresses
    but if you want to write to Mike Koskela c/o them they will forward.
    
    Address is ...  
    
    Mike Koskela c/o     
    Editor ( Alec Gee ) 
    Radio Modeller
    Argus Specialist Publications
    Argus House
    Boundary Way
    Hemel Hempstead
    Hertfordshire
    HP2 7ST
    England
    
    Have a nice weekend -- I've had a busy week and I'm off 
    
    Byeeeeeeeee  .............
    

As per Al Ryder's suggestion here is a cut from the video review note about
Harriers.  Read note 1204.* for details if you want to get at the
head of the list for this video.

As an aside my thoughts about the stability problem (if you watch the
video you will know what I'm talking about) are that it can be
designed away without the need to try to automatically combat the
stability after the fact.  

I think if you design the fuselage to be a large (mostly empty) mass
with the heavy stuff (engine, fan unit, batteries, servos, fuel) on
the bottom then you can pick up the kind of stability you see in a balloon
(a big heavy balloon now - not a wimpy little one) where you can let
it go and the open tube will stay on the bottom and the gas pressure
inside will put an equal force in all directions except down where the
hole is.  So if you build a model with a large hollow fiberglass fuselage
and use the fan unit to maintain pressure in the chamber while the
outlet is the nozzles pointed down - then it should be stable.  Thoughts?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
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Volume -9 = Harrier & other British Ducted Fans V-9

A friend from the Mowhawk Valley Modelers (the Orange club)
mentioned that he had some footage on a model Harrier.
I send him a tape and he filled it with lots of other
Ducted Fan video coverage from the UK.  It varies
considerably in quality getting better as the tape progresses.

This is a hodge podge of British Ducted Fans.
To me the highlight of the video is the progress
report on Mike Koskelka's Harrier.  He is up to
his 22nd version after 10 years of development.

There is the first model Optica I have ever seen.
Sure wish those plans would be published - it was
60 powered with a giant scale span!

Here is what the supplier - Gerard Jones had to say
about this tape in his short note.
===========================================================
Dear Kay,

Here it is!, not a lot of Harrier footage but enough
to let you see that is has evolved quite a way over
the last 6 years, he is at the point of trying transition.
I'll ask my friends if he's done it.  Also on the tape
is coverage of Philipe Avonds world champion F15 and the 
new F14 plan he's selling through Hobby Horn (plans only).
Also included is the worlds first model turbine (Jerry 
Jackman) and interviews of all the famous jet modelers
in England.  Hope you enjoy it!
                                       Regards Gerard"
===========================================================

I give it 3 stars.