Conference vmszoo::rc

    I wish my wife was like that !!! Go for it.. So they fly at 100
    or so MPH. Theere are a lot of prop driven beast that go that fast
    
    md
    

        Re:< Note 419.1 by BZERKR::DUFRESNE "VAXKLR - You make'em, I break'em" >

                Maybe you  can  do  what I did.  Give her a big rock when
        she has her  next  round  birthday.    There  are  advantages  to
        marrying slightly older women - just make sure the age difference
        is so great she forgets how generous you were.
        
        Anker

    She just had hers & she doesn't go for big rocks. Something to keep
    in mind though !!
    
    md

    Anker,
    
    I am not trying to cast a shadow of doubt, but be prepared for a
    hand full.  The resident DF pilot at our field has one and he says
    it hard to fly.  Of all of his DF planes, he has the most trouble
    with it ( and he's good! ).  This is obvious by the poor landings
    he gets from it.  He says, that his Parkinson's Eagle (F-15 copy)
    is the easiest to fly.  At idle and full up elevator, it refuses
    to stall.  He let some some non-DF types fly it and they had no
    problems.
    
    Bye,
    Chris

    look into parkinsons AVRO Arrow.. Supposed to fly very well too.
    
    Md

        Re:< Note 419.4 by MDVAX1::SPOHR >

        Thanks Chris,
        
                It was your  kind  of  response  I was hoping for.  Is it
        Byron's F16 he has?   The comments you made about the Eagle sound
        exactly like Byron's blurb for  the  F16!   They claim it cant be
        snapped, spun or stalled.  What field do you fly from.  There are
        currently no DF flyers at our field.    The only one before had a
        MIG15 which died the same day as my  ACE 4-40 bipe - we were both
        hit on Ch 56.
        
        Anker
        
        Anker

        Re:< Note 419.5 by BZERKR::DUFRESNE "VAXKLR - You make'em, I break'em" >

        I don't  remember noticing Parkinson's.  Do they advertise in the
        normal rags like RCM and Model Aviation?
        
        Anker

    re .6
    
    Anker,
    
    Yes, it is the byron's F-16.
    As for as what manufacturers say about Trainers and such, remember
    they tell the engine sizes too :-) Let me verify that by saying
    I have seen him fly 4-5 different DF's and the Eagle was the all
    around best.  It appears ( and he says it is ) to be an easy flier,
    it can haul a-- if you want, it lands slow, very realistic performance
    (I'm on the McDonnell Douglas account and have seen the real think),
    it flies straight up, and is priced around $159 for the basic kit.
    
    I belong to the East side RC club,  sponsored by Southern Illinois
    University - Edwardsville.   We fly from land provided by the
    University.  Located about 35 miles NE of St. Louis, MO.  We have
    a 200' plus asphalt runway and cut field.  The DF'er (no pun intended)
    always takes off from asphalt, but lands and Touch n' go's are always
    in the grass.
    
    Look in RCM under B for Bob Parkinson's Flying Models.  I believe
    that's where I usually see his ad.  He also, has an F-18 copy (Blue
    Angel I think) and some other one I can't name that looked like
    a delta wing.
    
    Chris

        Re:< Note 419.8 by MDVAX1::SPOHR >

        Chris,
        
                Oh well.  I had hoped I could swing by to have a chat and
        a look, but Illinois is a bit far for an afternoon.
        
                I personally like the  F15.  Does it have one or two DFs?
        Also, approximately  how  big  is  it?   The  F16  can  just  fit
        lengthwise in my wagon.
        
        Anker

    Anker,
    
    Whatta ya' mean, too far.  It's only 1200 or so miles. :-)
    
    The F-15 is a single engine design from parkinson.  I don't remember
    what brand the DF unit was (I think Byron's).  Our club should meet
    around mid-Jan if you want me to find out anything from the guy.
    
    Yes, I like it too!  It looks great in light grey, and the sight
    of the thing going vertical is just awesome.  If you did'nt know
    it was a model, you'd swear it was the real thing.
    
    Size?  Seems to me to have about the same wingspan, but I think
    it was a tad shorter.
    
    Chris

    Anker,
    
    He also uses OS .77 DF engines exclusively.
    

        Re:< Note 419.11 by MDVAX1::SPOHR >

                Goes vertical with an O.S. 77! I want one!
        
                I'll do some researching and if I want you to talk to the
        guy I'll get in touch.
        
        Thanks a bunch, and keep those comments coming/Anker

    Marc, Anker,
    
    Just to play "Devil's Advocate,"  I've observed just the opposite
    here locally;  we have several Byron F-16's, a coupla' them in the
    hands of relatively low-time pilots and all seem to perform just
    great...impossible to spin and stall resistance at low-speed, high
    angle-of-attack like I've never seen before, particularly on such
    a "slippery lookin'" bird.  I wouldn't hesitate for a second to
    recommend an F-16 or build one myself.
    
    I've only seen one Parkinson F-15 [Sport-Eagle or whatever he calls
    it] and it appeared to fly fine for the one circuit it made around
    the field it made before decomposing itself on the asphalt runway,
    the victim of stab flutter/failure.  If I or any one were to build
    this ship I'd recommend taking a hard look at the flying stab
    installation to see what can be done to prevent structural failure.
    Incidentally, the guy who had it was no hacker, he's probably the
    most experienced/successful DF pilot in the area.  He was very upset/
    disappointed at the in-flight failure and concluded the F-15 was
    his first and last Parkinson kit.  Again, this guy is an excellent
    builder/flyer so I have to suspect there "might" be an inherent
    weakness in the stab area of the F-15.  It would at least be prudent
    to pay special attention to this area.
    
    Chris's correct about the size; the F-15(?) is somewhat smaller than
    the Byron F-16 but both [I've seen] used  single Byrojet fan, usually
    powered by either a Rossi .81 or [the seemingly preferred] O.S. .77.
                                                                        
    Adios,	Al

        Re:< Note 419.13 by GHANI::CASEYA "THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)" >

        Al,
        
                I was  waiting  for you to jump in.  Sounds more like the
        Byron blurb now.   I appreciate the comment about checking flying
        surfaces very carefully, I'll do that  whatever kit I get.  Since
        you have experience with several I think I'll assume that the one
        Chris knows about must have some kind of problem.
        
                As far as I can see, the F16 needs  a  bigger engine than
        the O.S.  77 for vertical performance.  The bird weighs just over
        12 lbs and the O.S.  only gives 12 lbs static  thrust.    Is  the
        thrust greater when flying?
        
        Chris,
        
                The February issue of  RCM  doesn't have Bob Parkinson in
        the advertisers index under either  B  or  P.  I'll have to check
        some of the older issues.  I would  like  to  give them a call to
        send me a catalog.
        
        Anker

    Anker,
    
    Of the several F-16's I have knowledge of, the O.S. .77 seems to
    provide better all-around performance than the Rossi .81...in fact,
    one guy re-engined with an O.S. after numerous flights with the
    Rossi and the difference was dramatic in all regimes; much better
    vertical performance and straight/level top-speed.  Fact is, the
    improvement in speed was that spectacular that the plane [which
    had "never" done it before] developed a flutter in the entire tail
    section...the guy had to go inside the aft fuselage area and add
    a beefed-up ply former which extended upward to become a spine inside
    the vertical stab (fin), something I'm told is a good idea in any
    case when building the F-16.
    
    Vertical performance is very respectable but, obviously, wouldn't
    be as sparkling as a smaller/lighter ship with the same power-plant.
    The thrust rating you refer to is "static" thrust so I expect it
    would increase to some extent when airborne just like a prop job
    when the engine unloads...how much is anyone's guess; probably at
    least 1000 R's but I couldn't speculate on how much thrust that
    equates to, probably not that much...4-5 oz.'s sounds reasonable.
    Remember, however, that 12-lb.'s static thrust on a 12-lb. airframe
    equates to a 1:1 power/weight ratio which is d**n respectable; that
    suggests that the ship, held nose-vertical, could "hover" and few
    aircraft, model or full scale, can make that boast.
    
    Sure, the Violett Sport Shark has been clocked at over 170 mph and
    will climb almost out of sight, vertically, but I'd prefer the F-16's
    performance as it's fast enough [120 mph, give-or-take] and has
    impressive enough vertical performance to suit me.  We've got a
    real "hacker" who's been bringing the same tired, beat up old F-16
    out to fly with us for over 5-years and, almost every time he brings
    it out, he manages to push it past its "considerable" tolerance
    and thump it pretty fair.  Yet, the damage is always slight/superficial
    and, after all this abuse, it still flies fine and the guy's finally
    found the handle and does a nice job with it.  I should note that
    this guy went straight to the F-16 from a trainer [which he never
    mastered] and the Falcon forgave his incapacity long enough for
    him to learn to fly it.
    
    Adios,	Al

    Anker,

    Although I have had no PERSONAL experience with any DF models, a
    fellow from my RC club from school had the Byron F-16 model and was 
    EXTREMELY pleased withit.  Not only did it fly nicely, and as
    realistically as one might expect from a glow powered jet, but he
    ranted and raved about the Byron engineering and the high quality of
    there kits.  This was his first DF kit/model and he claims that he
    WOULD build another byron after such a good experience.  He seemed
    to think it was stable and forgiving, although he also had MANY flying 
    hours under his belt, and I trust you do before tackling a project
    of this magnitude.

    Anyway, ...best of luck to you.  You have a mighty generous wife!:-)
    Oh, my father John was looking over my shoulder when I reading through the 
    note. And yes... He claims you'll never change.:-) I guess he worked
    with you in an old DEC 10 group.


    /Brian

P.S.  to Al... do I detect a bit of bias toward the proverbial O.S.'s :-?-)

        Re:< Note 419.16 by ARCANA::JORGENSEN >

        Brian,
        
                You John's son?  Give him my best.  Reminds me of Joe and
        Andy on 98.5 a couple of  years ago playing a song about them and
        claiming it was done by John's son (meaning Julian Lennon).
        
                Why should I change?    He  who  dies  with the most toys
        wins!
        
        Anker

    Brian,
    
    You do, indeed, detect a bias in favor of O.S. engines.  I've never
    owned one that didn't perform flawlessly and exceed my expectations.
    In the DF world, however, a new challenger is on the horizon:  Rossi/
    Byron has just announced the new Rossi .90 DF engine which is claimed
    to put out as much as 2-lb.'s more static thrust that the O.S. .77
    [which seems reasonable considering the displacement delta].  Next,
    I'd imagine O.S. will reply with a bigger DF engine and the DF
    power-war will continue to the benefit and [I'd imagine] the delight
    of the DF modeler.                     
    
    Adios,	Al

    re .7
    
    yup. infact in the lastest issue of RCM, I saw INDY RC advertizing
    the models at $165 apiece
    
    

    re .8 "..and some other one I can't name that looked like a delta
    wing" is the AVRO ARROW. It was the designed as an interceptor for
    the RCAF in the 50s. It was the faster thing around anywhere. It
    got trashed by the politicians 'caues it was "too expensive"
    
    md

    and for my 2cents: get a  VIOJETT with the KBV77. I saw one at on
    of our recnet club meeting and was real impressed with the design.
    The byrojet looks like a kludge to by comparaison. (Being french,
    50% of my purchse  decision depends on the looks of the product
    !!)
    
    md
    

    Anker,
    
    Look in the Jan. 88 issue of RCM, Page 22 for a current B. Parkinson
    Ad.  
    
    Also, their address and phone are.
    
    Bob Parkinson Flying Models
    3 William Street
    Thornton, Ontario, Canada L0L 2N0
    
    They have an info. (includes dealers) for $2.00 and a 2 Hr. VHS
    video that details construction and performance for $20 ($15 with
    kit purchase)
    
    Phone is  1-705-458-4391
    
    
    Happy DF hunting,
    Chris