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Conference vmszoo::rc

Title:Welcome To The Radio Control Conference
Notice:dir's in 11, who's who in 4, sales in 6, auctions 19
Moderator:VMSSG::FRIEDRICHS
Created:Tue Jan 13 1987
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1706
Total number of notes:27193

57.0. "a first plane" by MOTHRA::DUTKO (Nestor Dutko, VMS/VAXclusters CSSE) Wed Feb 18 1987 15:49

    I am just beginning with RC (It has been a while since I have done
    anything that flew).  None the less, I was wondering if I could
    get a suggestion of a plane to try and build as a 'trainer', and
    what reputable shops are there in the Nashua/Merrimack/Manchester
    area which are recommended, or even better, those to stay away from?
    
    It has been suggested to me that I look into mail-order places as
    well.  Can anyone suggest a place to contact?
    
    Thanks in advance, 
    -- nestor, "Crash as crash can"
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57.1Slow and easy does it.HPSCAD::WFIELDWed Feb 18 1987 17:227
    The SIG Kadet Sr. would make a great trainer. I don't
    think anything could be much easier to fly. The only
    thing is they are fairly large, and can be a pain to drag around.
    Tower Hobbies and Hobby Shack both seem to be reputable enough,
    and usally seem to have a reasonable stock of things that they
    advertise.
    
57.4SPKALI::THOMASThu Feb 19 1987 06:4421
    
    Nestor,
    
    	I have a few suggestions. First off if you have no experience
    and will be building the plane alone then I suggest the SIG Kadet
    Junior. It's not to big and not to small. I think it has better
    flighht characteristics than the larger sig Kadets. The instruction
    book that comes with this kit is I think the best going for someone
    that is building by themselves.
    
    	If however you have building expereince and or you will be having
    help then I'm partial to the Lue Andrews/Great Planes "H" Ray.
                                   
        If you want to get into the air in a hurry then go for one of
    the Jap prebuilt kits that are made of wood but need final assembly
    done
    
         Both of these kits take smaller engines in the .20 to .30 size
    range. I suggest that you buy an OS engine in this size. They are
    the best going in this size range.
        					Tom
57.5ho humBASHER::DAYReal men fly model aeroplanes...Thu Feb 19 1987 10:5421

	re .3


			Incredibly boring to fly tho...

 		Over here we have a different bunch of planes,so you
        wouldn't recognise any model names..... Most people in my club 
	learn to fly on a thing called a HI-BOY,or something very
	similar.Briefly it is a 60" span high wing plane with lots of
	dihedral.. The fuz is a slot together plywood affair,making it
	fairly simple. It does result in a strong tho rather heavy fuz.
	Hi-boys have a similar glide angle to a house brick.. The makers
	reccomend a .25 to a .40 eng.I would go for the .40 as you can use
	it in some great planes (wot-4,wedge,acro-wot),specially with a
	pipe when you've got bored with the trainer                       

                             
	bob

57.6a trainer should be light and stiffSPKALI::THOMASTue Jan 19 1988 14:0115
    From my experinece I would have to say that the "robust" route isn't
    the ideal way to go. Light,Stiff structures with good power and
    a well installed radio system are the way to go. Just about anything
    will fly given sufficient power but few things fly well. When I
    am asked about what plane "X" modeler should build I first look
    at the flyers abilities, Second I then make a mental list of what
    ships I know of that meet my light,stiff criteria. If someone were
    interested in learning to fly and then to build I would have to
    point them in the direction of a wood/foam ARC ship. Faom wings
    covered with balsa with a balsa fuse. Semisemetrical wing. Four
    channels.High winged.Trike gear. Something in the 55" to 60" range
    with a .40 sized engine.
    
    						Tom
    
57.7ONE CASE WHERE STRONGER'S NOT NECESSARILY BETTER.....GHANI::CASEYATHE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)Tue Jan 19 1988 14:4185
Mel, 

First let me make the disclaimer that there are as many opinions as to what is 
"best" as there are R/Cers [or at least instructors] and most of them are cor-
rect in one way or another.  The remarks, comments and replies that follow are,
then, just my opinion(s)...they are based on approaches that have worked well
for me over upwards of 25-years in the hobby but others' opinions are likely to
be every bit as valid.  The philosophies as to the best approach vary widely de-
pending on the regional area one lives in and, to an equal extent, on the rela-
tive apptitude(s) of the beginning builder/flyer.

>    I am currently going the "Robust Trainer" route, but I wonder 
>    if this is the best policy?

* In my opinion, you simply cannot "crash-proof" an aircraft, trainer or any 
other type.  The penalty for beefing-up the airframe structure is increased 
weight.  So, while the ship "may" be physically stronger, it is also heavier
which means impact with the ground [or other obstacle] will be harder and the
resulting damage potentially more severe.  Crash damage potential goes up in di-
rect proportion with released kinetic energy which increases exponentially with
weight!  More simply put, the heavier the airframe, the more severe the damage
is likely to be.  Every ounce added to the airframe beyond the minimum integrity
necessary to handle the expected flight loads merely increases the amount of da-
mage that will be sustained during a mishap. It's a real paradox that the weight
of the very structure intended to make the model more durable will, in actuali-
ty, cause crash damage to be more severe!

Based upon this reasoning, the ideal model [to me] is one which employs only as 
much structure as is dictated by the flight loads expected in it's intended 
flight regime, plus some reasonable [say 5%] safety factor.  Beyond that, extra
or beefed structure [additional weight] has the very real potential to do more 
harm than good!

A lightly built trainer with reasonable durability is by far the best approach 
as it will fly better [by virtue of it's light weight], therefore having less
crash potential, and will be much more likely to survive the trials of a fledg-
ling pilot.
    
>    Also should one go for motor/rudder/elevator or 
>    motor/rudder/elevator/aileron?
>
>    		....I have just read an article, in RCM&E Flight 
>    Training Manual, that claim's that 4 channel is the best way 
>    to go.

I would agree, wholeheartedly, with the RCM&E article.  Students who start off
with 3-channels, inevitably have to learn to fly "twice!"  Using the rudder as 
the primary bank control and placing that control on the aileron stick [right-
hand stick in the case of mode-II transmitters] forces the student to ignore the
left stick [throttle/rudder] almost entirely and when the inevitable transition
to ailerons is attempted, he finds he's totally [understandably] ignorant of 
what the left stick is for and has to, essentially, learn all over again.  It
could be likened to only teaching a driving student to steer in the beginning
and trying to teach him what the gear-shift, brakes, etc. are for later.  It
"can" be done successfully but only while doubling the training process for both
the instructor and the student, not to mention lengthening the training time.
    
When asked how to get started, I always reccomend the following:

	1. Line yourself up with an instructor right off the bat and follow his
	   advice/direction implicitly as to building/setting up the model prior
	   to actually flying it.

	2. Buy "all" the radio [4-channels minimum] you can afford up front.
	   Today's radios last a loooong time and it's better to buy all the
	   channels you think you "might" ever want rather than winding up
	   wishing you had later.

	3. Build a high or shoulder wing trainer with semi-symmetrical airfoil
	   like any of the numerous "Stik"-types, Great Planes Trainer .40/.60,
	   etc. as, once the basics are mastered, the student can move right 
	   into advanced instruction and aerobatics without having to build a 
	   new airplane.

	4. Build a .60-size aircraft [certainly no smaller than .40-size] as the
	   larger airplane flies much better, is not "that" much more expensive
	   and you'll, most likely, want to move to a .60 powered model one day
	   anyhow.

	5. Start building a second airplane as soon as the first one is flying,
	   just to have a head start in case the unspeakable should happen and 
	   the first ship is lost.  You simply cannot learn to fly unless you
	   have something "to" fly!

Adios,	Al
57.8DittoLEDS::WATTWed Jan 20 1988 08:0524
    I agree completely with Al on the light structure being better than
    a brick.  Another thing to consider when picking a trainer is the
    power plant.  For a student, it is far better to have ample reserve
    power up front.  Don't get the smallest engine recommended for any
    trainer, get the largest.  The only penelty for a larger engine
    is the need for a larger fuel supply and a little lost glide
    performance if the engine quits.  The advantage is additional power
    to get yourself out of situations that inevitablely happen when
    learning takeoffs and landings.  Get a high quality reliable 2-stroke
    engine.
    	I think that many instructors suggest a three channel trainer
    because it is easier to teach on three channels.  There is less
    for the pilot to do.  Although I learned to fly with three channels,
    I think that the advice to start with a 4-channel trainer is probably
    good provided you have a competent instructor.  He should be able
    to set your plane up with proper control sensitivity and sort out
    any undesirable characteristics before you start training.  Then
    it's important to get lots of stick time.  Learning ain't easy,
    but it's worth the work.
    
    Enjoy RC
    
    Charlie