Conference 7.286::dcu

    	OK.  Let me leapfrog my pet suggestion from about 18 months
    	ago.  Perhaps it'll get more visibility here.
    
    
                <<< SMAUG::USER$944:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DCU.NOTE;5 >>>
                                    -< DCU >-
================================================================================
Note 199.2       Request for additional ATM features (balances)           2 of 6
CSC32::J_OPPELT "Save time -- see it my way."        18 lines   4-OCT-1990 13:32
                         -< ATM reporting suggestion. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    	I made this suggestion over the phone to DCU about 2 months
    	ago.  The voice on the other end thought it was a good idea
    	too.  Now I'm documenting it in this notesfile.  Maybe I'll
    	get a Mary Madden response...

    	When I make a CRT payment, the payment is first applied to 
    	accrued interest, and the remainder to principal.  When I make
    	the payment at a teller window, my receipt breaks out the 
    	interest portion from the principal.  When I make the payment
    	at an ATM, I am just given a new principal balance.  Unless I 
    	made a balance inquiry before making the payment, I have no way 
     	to break out the interest portion.

    	I would like to see the ATM software upgraded to be able to
    	show me the amount of payment that went to interest -- just like
    	the teller window software does.

    	Joe Oppelt

    	Second ATM suggestion:
    
    	When I used to live in Mass and did alot of BayBank banking,
    	I recall that when I did an ATM balance inquiry, one BayBanks
    	inquiry would proactively give the balances for all accounts
    	accessible to that card.
    
    	DCU ATMs make me request a separate balance for each account
    	(savings, checking, CRT, etc.) that I want.  It takes alot
    	of time to do that, (you can hear the people behind you in
    	the line huffing and puffing) and certainly puts unnecessary
    	network overhead into the system when one transaction can
    	perform it all in one neat package.
    
    	Does the BOD have any influence over the ATM software design?
    
    	Sometimes the little things can make alot of difference.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

 I concurr on the Annual fee vs spenging, if the ammount is reasonable.

The part I don't like is the recent change tieing elimination of annual fee
to the ammount of OTHER loans I maintain ($6000 balance for the year).

Any VISA incentived should be tied to VISA.  The DCU benefits for EVRY time the
card is USED.  Why should they tie it also to OTHER business.

I try not to borrow termed (long or short with payments) money.

I do use my charge card (paid monthly) and run a fair amount through it for the
convenience of reciepts and one check pays a lot of things.

Please fix this king of cross tieing instruments in DCU in general.

    
    Keep DCU branches open all day.
    
    The events of the past year have aroused my righteous indignation on a
    higher plane, but nothing, Nothing, NOTHING, has infuriated me more
    regarding day-to-day oprations than to wedge a short break into a busy
    day and run over to DCU, only to be reminded once again that my timing
    is lousy. If any other business did this to me, I'd never go back to
    them again.
    
    (If I win this one, I'll go aftar the local Post Office branch that
    closes from 11:30 to 2:00. Then again, if DCU sold stamps... :-)
    

My suggestion to the new Board of Directors:

	Keep a clear head.  Remember your commitment not to micro-manage
	the professionals at DCU.  Focus on the big picture and give the
	employees leadership.  

	What people really want in DCU is RESPONSIVENESS.  Ask Chuck to go 
	after MEMBER SATISFACTION and promise him he won't be shot when
	the DCU only makes a little bit of money instead of a big pile
	of money.  Does Chuck understand that life will not end if we
	don't instantly pay off the Cape Cod nonsense?

	Don't compromise on disclosure.  The big picture has lots of
	information in it.  We'd like _any_ method that allows us the
	opportunity to access the information.  Don't discount some ways
	(like Notes) because they are flawed or cannot reach everyone.
	
	Long journeys begin with a single step.  Think in terms of 
	"an infinite number of small victories" rather than conquering
	the whole world all at once.

Good luck.  Oh yeah, and welcome to "management"  :^)

Karl B.

    RE: 539.4 (Kilgore)

    >The events of the past year have aroused my righteous indignation on a
    >higher plane, but nothing, Nothing, NOTHING, has infuriated me more
    >regarding day-to-day operations than to wedge a short break into a busy
    >day and run over to DCU, only to be reminded once again that my timing
    >is lousy. If any other business did this to me, I'd never go back to
    >them again.

    I agree with this one 100%.  I think DCU opens at 8:00 closes at 4:00. 
    It has a lunch break from 12:45 until 1:45.  The lunch break used to be
    covered by the DCU employees by splitting the time people went to lunch.

    They are currently open 7 hours a day down from 8 hours a day.  That is
    a 12.5% decrease in service time!

    This is another one of those, 'Lets do it before the owners notice'
    type of things.  I have never heard of any member being asked if they
    thought this was a good idea.  We did not have any say in this.

    	- mark

    How about a modification to the touch-tone system? I would like to be
    able to punch in a check number and find out when and if it cleared.
    Some NY banks offer this option. Would other people find this useful?
    
    Also, on questions of changes, why not put post cards in everybody's
    statement and let them "vote" to get an idea of priorities for changes.
    If we do indeed want changes, shouldn't we prioritize them? A 19 cent
    stamp isn't too much to ask in my opinion. Or you could create a touch
    tone survey system which allows each account to vote once. We could
    reduce cost on this by only allowing it off-hours. We should inform the
    membership that where possible, use the 800 number off-hours to help
    start reducing overhead costs.

    I think there exists a form of postage for a return card or letter that
    is only paid if it is actually used.
    
    I would like to be able to find out if a particular check had cleared.
    Like the ones to fussy utilities.

It sounds to me like the _real_ suggestion to the BoD in most of this topic
is that they advise DCU to provide a responsive means for taking member
suggestions regarding the operation of the credit union. I don't think
that the Board should be involved in the decision making process regarding
a lot of these things, should they?

-Jack

    Not many will disagree with .-1.
    
    We know we have the attention of some of the new directors, so the
    suggestions get made here because this conference feels like a
    communication path that will work and that is (now) unlikely to be
    ignored by the DCU management.

�    I agree with this one 100%.  I think DCU opens at 8:00 closes at 4:00. 
�    It has a lunch break from 12:45 until 1:45.  The lunch break used to be
�    covered by the DCU employees by splitting the time people went to lunch.
    
    They do this in NRO.  I used to work at that facility and still know
    quite a few people there.  The people I know don't seem to mind.  They
    typically take lunch between 11:30 and 12:30 anyway.

    Easytouch does offer information on cleared checks (I think it is the 6
    most recent checks that have been cleared).  It is option 4 in the
    Inquiry Menu.

>              <<< Note 539.11 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" 
>
>�    I agree with this one 100%.  I think DCU opens at 8:00 closes at 4:00. 
>�    It has a lunch break from 12:45 until 1:45.  The lunch break used to be
>�    covered by the DCU employees by splitting the time people went to lunch.
>    
>    They do this in NRO.  I used to work at that facility and still know
>    quite a few people there.  The people I know don't seem to mind.  They
>    typically take lunch between 11:30 and 12:30 anyway.


I still work in NRO and yes, the DCU branch closes for an hour.  
Most people I know aren't pleased with this level of service.  
However, since it was introduced using the phrase "To serve you 
better" [we're closing for an hour in the middle of the day], 
most people have given up on getting anything better.

Maryellen

    I currently do business with a bank that lets me use my Visa
    card like a debit card.  Charges to my Visa card are simply
    debited from my checking account.  This is great. I can go to
    almost any place in the world - restaurants, shops, hotels,
    etc, etc. and use plastic no questions asked.  I only have to
    be sure that I remember to have enough cash in my account to
    cover my purchases - which is really no problem (actually the
    Visa system checks my account to make sure there is enough cash)  
    I can also use the card in ATM's almost anywhere in the world.
    
    I would like DCU to offer this service.  They could then do away
    with their own red ATM cards and 75% of the paper checks.
    
    d
    

    
    They knew it wasn't "to serve you better"; if it was "to serve you
    better", they would have instituted it at all branches, nut just at new
    branches where they could get away with it from the get go. I don't
    know if it's still true, but long after new brahches opened, for
    instance at LKG, with lunch closings, the MRO1 branch was still open
    all day. This is proof positive in my mind that the lunch closing was
    "to serve them better", and they knew they would not (at least
    initially) get away with this service reduction at established
    branches.
    
    Now that "they" is "we", I look forward to positive movement on this
    issue.
    

�This is proof positive in my mind that the lunch closing was
�    "to serve them better", and they knew they would not (at least
�    initially) get away with this service reduction at established
�    branches.
    
    There has been a branch at NRO since at least 1984.  The reduced hours
    seemed to coincide with a reduction in work force and the closing of
    building(s) at that site.

.15>      This is proof positive in my mind that the lunch closing was
.15>  "to serve them better", and they knew they would not (at least
.15>  initially) get away with this service reduction at established
.15>  branches.
    
.15>  Now that "they" is "we", I look forward to positive movement on this
.15>  issue.
    

So do I.  The point, as always, is that if you want to attract customers,
you make them "delighted" with your product.  The whole purpose of having
branches in the first place is to make banking with DCU convenient.

The more competitive things get, the MORE attention you have to give to
"delighting" customers.             

(Emphasis added, on account of how it seems to be a recurring temptation,
to some, to respond to heightened competition by cutting "costs".)

    	Do DCU employees get paid for 40 hours?? If so, then the lunch
    break at NIO is a "paid" break. Between 12:45 and 1:45 PM the DCU is
    closed. There is no one in the DCU prior to 8:00 AM and no one after 
    4:05 PM. Rare are the exceptions.
    
    	My boss expects 40+ hours a week from me........we should expect 40
    hours minimum if that's what they're paid for. If they need an hour
    lunch, then maybe 8-5 is more realistic and everyone gets an unpaid
    lunch.....
    
    Ken

     re .12
>    Easytouch does offer information on cleared checks (I think it is the 6
>    most recent checks that have been cleared).  It is option 4 in the
>    Inquiry Menu.

  Inquiry 4 will let you know the last 5 checks to clear.  I agree with the
  person who requested the option to check on any check number.  I've had a
  particular check outstanding now since February.  Unfortunately, it was for
  an amount that I've used more than once since then.  It would've been nice
  to check on check number y to see if it cleared, when and for what amount.

  I've had checks clear for amounts other than what the check was written
  for.  Granted, this has only happened twice, but it did throw off my checking
  account balance for more than a month.

  And, I've also had more than one occurrence of more than 5 checks clearing
  in one day.  So, unless you call easytouch hourly, more than 5 could clear
  in the time since you last checked.  AGAIN, this has only happened a few
  times, but enough to throw off that old account balance.

  Don

    Can you get information on specific checks clearing over the phone or
    at a window from a teller?

   Re: Note 539.18 by SALEM::KUPTON 
   

�    	Do DCU employees get paid for 40 hours?? If so, then the lunch
�    break at NIO is a "paid" break. Between 12:45 and 1:45 PM the DCU is
�    closed. There is no one in the DCU prior to 8:00 AM and no one after 
�    4:05 PM. Rare are the exceptions.
    

   I have several friends who are bank tellers.  I assume DCU tellers
   operate the same way.  Watch your bank someday, all day.  Tellers
   must prepare at least 30 minutes before opening, and "closing" takes
   anywhere from 45 to 90 minutes depending of the volume.  Sometimes
   when traffic is light they can do some of their bookkeeping during
   business hours.
   
   Just because the doors are locked doesn't mean they aren't working.

>    Can you get information on specific checks clearing over the phone or
>    at a window from a teller?

	Yes you can. You can call the main office and ask for the Share Draft
	department. I have done this from time to time. However, it would be
	nice to be able to get this information without taking the time of a
	real person who would be better used answering tough questions.

			Alfred

>>    Can you get information on specific checks clearing over the phone or
>>    at a window from a teller?
>
>	Yes you can. You can call the main office and ask for the Share Draft
>	department.

I haven't done this in a while, but I've been able to get this information
simply by stopping by my favorite branch (HLO) and inquiring at the window.
The teller simply punched up my checking account, and gave the data I needed.
I've done this 3 or 4 times in the past (checks written and sent to the west
coast sometime have a nasty habit of taking 2-3 MONTHS to clear) and have
always been cheerfully helped.

./chris

    	I have more than 5 checks clear in a day several times per
    	month.  I write 40-50 checks each month, so it is not unlikely
    	that a batch will clear all in the same day.
    
    	Since the software seems to already be there (the tellers have it)
    	then it seems a small matter to add that capability into a
    	user interface and reduce the need for two people being tied
    	up (the inquirer and a DCU employee) while doing the inquiry.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    I would like to suggest that check clearing information on Easytouch
    should be announced in reverse order (last check cleared first). I write 
    only a few checks every month and when I wish to know which checks have 
    cleared it sometimes start from the last month's cleared checks. This
    should also reduce the charges on the 800 number. I understand that the
    charges for 800 numbers are based per second (not per minutes).

    Another friend, who has multiple accounts, suggested that Easytouch should
    have an option for requesting information on another account without
    hanging up. I believe this should also reduce the DCU's telephone bill.

    Abhijit

    Or better still, have two options on the easytouch check clearing
    system. 
    
    Default = Last 5 checks.
    
    Option = Enter Check number. to find status on that check...
    
    q
    

    I agree with the last few notes. Yes, we need both methods of finding
    out the status of checks. I definitely agree with the writer who
    suggested that the last 5 check option do it with the MOST recent
    checks first. It would be nice if instead of the last 5 checks, the
    user could reply with the last "N" checks that cleared.

    I'll let you guys figure out the best way to handle the "did my check
    clear?" inquiries on Easy Touch.  I have a different request.
    
    My elder son turned 19 today (go ahead, remind me that I'm getting old!
    8^), so his BayBank account will no longer be fee-free.  Being cheap,
    he's looking for a better deal.  DCU's checking is free, but ATM access
    isn't (there are hundreds of X-Press 24 machines in the greater Boston
    area, but NO DCU ATMs within 5 miles of Cambridge).
    
    BayBank is about to lose his business and DCU will not get it as long
    as DCU charges per ATM transaction.  I'd like to suggest DCU forming a
    closer relationship with BayBank (operator of the X-Press 24 network in
    the Boston area) and with the ATM leaders in the other areas in which
    DCU operates.  The goal would be to provide FREE ATM access throughout
    a metropolitan area rather than just at selected Digital buildings.

    INdeed, not only for your son, but for the large number of DEC
    employees, in the greater Maynard area, that aren't in or near a
    facility serviced by a DCU office or ATM.
    
    Peter Q.
    

>    INdeed, not only for your son, but for the large number of DEC
>    employees, in the greater Maynard area, that aren't in or near a
>    facility serviced by a DCU office or ATM.

    How about the rest of the country? Many of us can't even DRIVE to 
    a DCU office or ATM. I would be happy to see just one DCU ATM 
    somewhere in the Detroit Metro area.

    For DCU ATM access, we use the Cirrus network. Even overlooking the $1
    fee, you still can't make any deposits. So you have to have a local
    bank for cashing or depositing checks. 

    --- Paul

                <<< SMAUG::USER$944:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DCU.NOTE;5 >>>
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Note 539.31                  REAL SUGGESTIONS TO BOD                    31 of 31
LNGBCH::MUELLER                                      11 lines  12-MAY-1992 19:34
                -< DCU does not serve the remote people well. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've been a very long time member of the DCU.  However, in all that
    time, I have never figured out  certain things.  Like how to get more
    share drafts.  I know it seems really stupid, but out here in
    California, there is absolutely no DCU presence.  I think the
    organization does not serve the remote members well at all.  I am now
    down to about a half dozen drafts and am going to SERP.  I will have to
    save one of them to clean out the account.  This is sad, but I just
    can't deal with it any more.

    I am unable to deposit into DCU.  Can only withdraw money via draft to
    a local bank since no one will accept the drafts.  This isn't useful to
    me at all.  Besides, they have never given loans out here!

    You would think that the world ended at the Mass. border.  DCU is not
    really a DEC credit union, but rather an East coast DEC credit union.  
    

>    You would think that the world ended at the Mass. border.  DCU is not
>    really a DEC credit union, but rather an East coast DEC credit union.  

    As a remote member, I have often thought the same thing.

    Maybe it should be renamed "The Digital Employees of Massachusetts
    Federal Credit Union."

    --- Paul

    I think that is a perception that does exist, and it unfortunate.  I
    would like to see representation on the BoD from outside GMA, or at
    least to have the current board seek out feedback from outside of GMA
    beyond what this notesfile does (ie.  meetings outside of GMA in
    Chicago, LA, New York, etc. where there are large concentrations of DEC
    employees) and seek out feedback from DEC employees that are not
    members of the DCU to get ideas for improvement.
    
    Many people/sites outside of GMA do not have the advantages that those
    DCU members within GMA have grown fond of ... and before anyone gets
    carried away, this is not a "GMA versus the rest" debate, it is a
    discussion of the lack of quality services outside of a specific
    geography.  Your mileage may vary ...     

    I forgot to add, policies that allow for greater access to meetings
    outside of the local geography of Maynard through use of videotaped
    meetings and videoconference facilities, as well as simplistic phone
    hook-ups.  I was not even able to get a speaker phone hooked up at this
    last annual meeting so that I could at least hear what was happening.
    
    If expansion of membership #s for the DCU is a goal, I would believe that
    the greatest area for expansion % is outside of GMA because that I
    would guess, I do not know for sure, that the percentage of membership
    in DCU versus those eligable is higher in GMA then the rest of the
    country.  DCU has little or no visability outside of the northeast.

It's been suggested elsewhere that free ATM usage (or at least very low 
price) could be provided for members who are remote from DCU branches.  That 
would help make the DCU more geographically equitable, but that doesn't solve 
the problem of deposits.  Would some kind of mail-in deposit system work?

Remote access to meetings is a good idea.  I feel that arrangements should
be made to allow remote members to participate, at least verbally, in any
meeting that is open to the general DCU membership.  Maybe it would be 
acceptable to require that remote members indicate their desire to attend 
some number of days beforehand, so that the right amount of equipment can
be obtained and set up.  I doubt that this would be very costly in practice,
since I doubt if it will be used much.  (Before this year, who ever wanted 
to attend a DCU meeting?)  But the option should be there.

I'm not clear what the problem is with getting share drafts remotely.  I
get mine by mailing in the form that comes with my checks, or through an
independent company.  Surely a call to DCU headquarters (via the 800
number) would get the needed information if one loses the form (as I
have sometimes done).  

	Enjoy,
	Larry

�Would some kind of mail-in deposit system work?
    
    I thought there already was one in place.
    
�I'm not clear what the problem is with getting share drafts remotely.  I
�get mine by mailing in the form that comes with my checks, or through an
�independent company. 
    
    I agree.  I was on assignment in Austin, TX for about 2 years.  In
    addition to the 2 dozen or so other MCC and Sematech assignees there
    was a small sales/service office.  In other words, not enough people to
    justify a branch.  I did my main banking through DCU since I knew I was
    going back eventually and because of the Texas banking situation.  I
    kept a small account in a local bank to run checks through and avoid
    ATM fees and to have local checks for the merchants who squawked about
    my out of state checks (very few actually).  Whenever I needed new
    checks from DCU, I mailed in the form that is on the next to the last
    book of checks.

    
>                <<< Note 539.36 by RGB::SEILER "Larry Seiler" >>>

> Would some kind of mail-in deposit system work?

    Inconvenient to say the least. What if it gets lost in the mail? You
    have to sign the back of checks you deposit, right? Well, what if someone 
    stole it? They could deposit it and it would be days before you would
    realize it.

    --- Paul

When I have to have my wife sign a big check before I carry it in for
deposit, she writes "for deposit only" or "for deposit only to the
account of" above her name.  I understood that these words are supposed 
to prevent a bank from depositing the check in anyone else's account,
converting it to cash, etc.  

I agree that worrying about when the mailed-in checks would be deposited
is a problem.  It would be nice if remote ATMs took deposits, but if they
don't what can the DCU do about it?

Hmm... I wonder how many DCU employees a site has to have before it 
becomes econimical to have a DCU ATM?  Is the ATM business set up in
such a way that DCU can contract out servicing, so that there don't
have to be DCU employees local to the machine?  Maybe that's the best
alternative, if it's practical -- put in DCU ATMs at the remote
locations with the largest concentrations of DCU members.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

.38> What if it gets lost in the mail? You
.38> have to sign the back of checks you deposit, right? Well, what if someone 
.38> stole it? They could deposit it and it would be days before you would
.38> realize it.

Not if you endorse it properly.  Instead of just signing your name (that
WOULD make it cashable for anyone), endorse it as follows (my wife was a
teller, this from her too):

			+-----------------------+
			|   For Deposit Only	|
			| Digital Credit Union	|
			|   #(your accnt #)	|
			|	(your sig)	|

A check endorsed this way is absolutely worthless to anyone but the DCU,
and only deposited to the account number specified.

    Except when the mail loses a check. I happened to mail in a $1000 check
    last April 1991. It was sent priority mail and the postal service lost
    it, or so I thought. So I had another drawn to get the money into the
    account. Lo and behold on January 1, 1992 it showed up at DCU and was
    deposited. It cleared my wife's credit union because holds are only
    valid for 6 months. I don't always balance my account and then I get a
    letter from my wife's credit union asking why I deposited a check which
    I reported lost. Well, I wrote them a check and luckily they didn't
    charge us interest. 
    
    I called and asked for all the paperwork on why it got deposited about
    6 weeks ago, got a few calls saying they were researching it, and I
    forgot about it. So they did too. 
    
    I mean, if you get a check in the mail at a credit union which is nine
    months old and has a nine-month old postmark, wouldn't it be common
    sense to call and ask if something was strange about this?
    
    I do all my OTHER deposits by mail since DCU was opened and this is the
    first problem I had. The key is the "FOR DEPOSIT ONLY" and never to
    send cash. 

    re .41
    
    Hey, let's be realistic.  When was the last time you looked at the
    postmark on a letter?

    Yesterday.

    re: .42
    
>    Hey, let's be realistic.  When was the last time you looked at the
>    postmark on a letter?
    
    When was the last time you received a check that was dated 9 months
    ago?  CUs/banks are supposed to check that date, anyway.  And if that
    date looked "strange", I wouldn't find it unbelievable that one would
    double-check the envelope as well.  Of course, I've known companies
    which had mail opened at a central point and the envelopes discarded
    (that's another story), but I doubt DCU has enough fat to afford a
    "professional letter opener" on the staff.
    
    -- Russ

    
    Post office trivia:
    
    I have seen many postmarks that weren't readable.  (smudged, light stamp,
    half a stamp, etc.)
    

I doubt they even check the date of a check unless there's a question. I
once wrote 2 checks to pay utilities bills but swapped them (put them in the
wrong envelopes). One utility bounced it, the other didn't. They cashed the
check for the wrong amount and so it wound up being an over or under
payment, can't remember which. But the point is, I have a feeling that they
look only at the amount (probably by machine) unless there's some reason to
look at something else. There are so many checks, they'd lose lots of time
really looking at things they are supposed to be looking at. Kinda scary.

>I doubt they even check the date of a check unless there's a question. I

    	I suspect they do check. I took a check in once that had the wrong
    	date on it. That is to say that the person who made it out thought
    	it was a day later then it really was. The teller saw that and asked
    	me to bring it back the next day. No problem. That's the way it
    	should be.

    		Alfred

In Texas the date is meaningless.  Here it is illegal to write a check when
you don't have enough funds in the account to cover it.  This means that there
is no such thing as a post-dated check.

Bob

  Most everything on the check is questionable.  I once sent a check to
an individual.  They reported never getting the check BUT it was cashed!
A week after the check was sent I got mail from the company that cashed
the check.  They reported that they had received my check but they did
not know what I had ordered!!!  I immediately went to the bank and told them
that they had cashed the check without proper signature.  They then
refused the check and credited my account.  The company that cashed
the check then started to send me nasty letters claiming my check
had bounced and they were going to turn my case over to a credit agency.
They wouldn't quit until I called the Better Business Bureau!!!

  A second case similar... I sent a payment to an oil company for the
full amount I owed them.  A month later they sent me a bill claiming
that I only paid the minumum amount of the bill and they wanted me
to pay 21% interest.  This one was easier to straighten out because
I was able to send the company a copy of the check AND I had to have
DCU send it back thru the system.  

  The problem?

  The magic imprint on the bottom of the check was imprinted with $20
instead of $1xx.00.  It went thru the system and no one ever looked
at it after it was imprinted with the strip on the bottom.

    I'd like to thank everyone for their experiences with check dates.

    Now PLEASE, let's not overlook the real problem with idle chit chat!

    The real problem is... remote members cannot conveniently make deposits
    to DEMFCU.

    Continue...

    --- Paul

    
    RE: .51
    
    Paul, how would you suggest people outside a branch area be able to
    "conveniently make deposits"?  I understand mail deposits are available
    today.  I'm not sure if the ATM network supports deposits for DCU
    members, but will ask about it.
    

>    Paul, how would you suggest people outside a branch area be able to
>    "conveniently make deposits"?    

    How about ATMs that will accept deposits? I don't care if it's a
    foreign network, or a DEMFCU ATM, as long as I can deposit cash or
    checks.

>    I understand mail deposits are available today.

    Ask members in the GMA if they would be willing to go to a "mail only" 
    deposit system. It can only be as good as the postal service. A
    sizable check lost in the mail could be devastating to ones
    finances.

>   I'm not sure if the ATM network supports deposits for DCU members, but 
>   will ask about it.

    I use the Cirrus network here in Michigan and it DOES NOT accept
    deposits to DEMFCU accounts.

    --- Paul

    ATM networks that I know about do not accept deposits unless the
    machine is owned by the bank you are trying to deposit to.
    
    Again I ask the question, how many of the 88K or so members are in an
    area without access to a branch office?

>    How about ATMs that will accept deposits? I don't care if it's a
>    foreign network, or a DEMFCU ATM, as long as I can deposit cash or
>    checks.
    
>    I use the Cirrus network here in Michigan and it DOES NOT accept
>    deposits to DEMFCU accounts.
    
    Well, the combination of these two statements would seem to leave only
    1 alternative, DCU ATMs installed all over the country.  Is this
    cost effective?  
    
>    Ask members in the GMA if they would be willing to go to a "mail only" 
>    deposit system. It can only be as good as the postal service. A
>    sizable check lost in the mail could be devastating to ones
>    finances.
    
    Unfortunately, it is the one delivery system available to all people at
    a reasonable cost.  It does have it's drawbacks for sure.  But until we
    can beam a deposit to DCU, its the best at the moment.
    

There are several Credit Unions such as the Pentagon FCU and the NAVY FCU for
example that have world wide membership.   Based on the large memberships of 
these organizations, the members must be satisfied.  Their rates look good 
from the ads that I have seen.

Why not "bench mark" the DCU against these two organizations and see what 
services they provide and how they do it ?   Perhaps someone in this file
could tell us what services they provide. 

The Branch office is of no value to me.  I can do most of what I need via the 
ATM in this building and question the cost of the branch.  The five or so 
employees (maybe more) would go a long way against offsetting the cost of 
providing free ATM useage particularly if more branches are closed.

Has anyone looked at the possibility of installing DCU ATMs in some of our
outer organizations and contracting with some local financial organization to
service them.  Banks have to be servicing their own now.   Do a Make/buy
decision on which way to go.   There used to be a Shawmut Bank ATM in PKO3
which was removed when the DCU opened so there is a precedent to have banks
install thse on Digital Property.  Don't know if there are or were any others.

What about faxing/mailing loan requests to a central location and getting them 
turned around in a reasonable manner.  

Somebody needs to look at the labor costs and see if they can't be reduced
as against what benefits we get.  I would rather get more interest payments 
rather than see a person instead of a machine.

.51>    The real problem is... remote members cannot conveniently make deposits
.51>    to DEMFCU.

	I want to be a member of the Lowell Firefighters' Credit Union.
    	(I was before I moved to Colorado.)  They have great rates, and
    	great service fr their customers.  My choices were to close out
    	my account or perform transactions by mail.
    
    	I dropped them.
    
    	There is great cry in this conference for DEFCU to be more like
    	a credit union and less like a bank.  Then we get a call for
    	full services to outlying customers.  This to me means the
    	equivalence of branch banking.  I think the two requests are
    	mutually exclusive.
    
    	External ATM networks do not allow deposits.  It seems that
    	this situation is beyond the control of DCU.  We could put
    	our own ATM there, but then we'd have to service it and get
    	a person onsite regularly to collect deposits and reload the
    	machine with cash.  You can't have it both ways.
    
    	I guess putting it bluntly, people who do not have easy access
    	to the branch or DCU ATM (and want it) should consider using
    	a different financial institution.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    I must agree with .57. As a previous Massachusetts employee of both 
    Burroughs (before Unisys) and Control Data, the Credit Union for the
    first and Savings Plan for the second were located in Detroit and 
    Minneapolis respectively. We had the same problems of access as the 
    DEC Field employees; all banking had to be done by mail and telephone.
    Both said the concentration of employees in Massachusetts made it
    economically unfeasible to provide onsite services. In both cases the
    Headquarters areas had the same level of service as the DCU provides
    in the GMA. 
    
    At the time there was no network access via ATM either. Most of us only 
    deposited longer-term savings into the company-related institutions, and 
    had checking accounts in local banks.    
    
    
    Linda  

    
    
      I'm a member of the Navy credit union.
    
      In a lot of ways,  it  is a __FAR__ better deal than the 
    DCU,  but it has the same problem of dealing with remote 
    members.
    
      NFCU ATM cards work with "PLUS"  ATM machines (only), which
    can be somewhat tricky to find,  although their visa card
    seems to work in most ATM's.
    
      As for deposits,  I've gotten used to mailing them,  or
    cashing the odd check at the local DCU branch.  It's not 
    super-convenient,  but it's really not that big a deal either
    once you get used to it,  and even less trouble if you have 
    auto-deposit,  and don't frequently need to handle
    other checks/cash.  I find cash is the hardest thing to get
    rid of - the nearest NFCU  branch is at the Weymouth Naval
    Air station...
    
      I got a car-loan through them back in January - 3 days after
    calling them to apply (Via their 800 number)  I had the paperwork
    to sign  and a check sitting in my mailbox.   
    
      Overall,  NFCU is a good deal - So good in fact that it
    is worth putting up with the inconvenience of not having
    a branch/dedicated ATM nearby.  
    
    
    						-al

>          <<< Note 539.57 by CSC32::J_OPPELT "I like it this way." >>>
>    	I guess putting it bluntly, people who do not have easy access
>    	to the branch or DCU ATM (and want it) should consider using
>    	a different financial institution.

    So you would have no problem if all the field members up and left? This
    again brings up the question, what percentage of DEMFCU members are
    remote? 

    --- Paul

>    So you would have no problem if all the field members up and left? This
>    again brings up the question, what percentage of DEMFCU members are
>    remote? 

	In a nutshell, yes.  At least for day-to-day transctions.  Actually
    	I'm not suggesting they leave for DCU's sake, but for their own.
    	And really, though, I'm suggesting that they not expect the kind of
    	service they can expect to receive from a local establishment, and
    	not necessarily suggesting that they leave.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

        Re: .51

>    The real problem is... remote members cannot conveniently make deposits
>    to DEMFCU.

        I guess I'm in the minority in this discussion, but I find
        mail to be the *most* convenient way to make deposits.  Who
        wants to drive out of the way, finding a parking place, wait
        in line, wait for the teller to perform the transaction, and
        walk back to the car?  An extra mile drive is more expensive
        than a stamp just from the cost of running the car--and the
        value of my wasted time is an order of magnitude larger.

        Making deposits in person is much easier if a branch or ATM is
        conveniently located, but it never gets easier than sending
        the checks through the mail.  My priorities would be different
        if I frequently wanted to make cash deposits, but I've been
        making deposits by mail for most of my life--most of the time
        because I lived so far away from any branch of the financial
        institutions I chose to use.

        I suggest that DCU perform a survey on this topic before
        deciding that lack deposit options is a serious concern for
        the members of DCU outside of the GMA.

        					B.J.

I'm one of the 'no branch nearby' DCU members... in central Ohio.

I'm doing fine with not being able to make deposits locally. I even get by
without an ATM card. I deposit DCU checks into my local bank without problem
or 'holds' on my money. Grocery stores around here take the DCU checks just
like they were a local bank... and often let me write them for $20-$50 over the
amount.

I'm at a customer site 99% of the time and see the DEC office about once a
month so even if a DCU branch were in my building I wouldn't frequent it as
much as I do my local bank.

My vote would be for no changes to the current ATM/deposit setup.

Lee Roth

    I agree with -.1. Most places here take DCU checks because the checks
    don't say Massachussetts...

    The question I have to ask, and have asked before, is it "cost
    effective" not to have easy access to what could be your largest growth
    for potential membership for this credit union?  What would "new
    membership" do if there were greater access to ATM machines at DEC
    building sites with even in excess of 100 employees (Which is not
    currently the case)?

    Not sure if this is the right note, but...
    
    I called DCU Info Line yesterday inquiring about a recreational vehicle
    loan.  DCU does not offer such loans.  However, the helpline person
    suggested several alternatives, among them using the *UNSECURED* CRT
    line or VISA credit line increase!
    
    It seems that DCU would be better protected by offering *SECURED* RV
    loans rather than offering to give me *UNSECURED* money to buy one! 
    Leominster Credit Union and Shawmut Bank both offer these loans (I only
    called two places to see if this was an unusual loan type.  It's not.)
    
    I would feel better if my CU was not pushing unsecured credit for uses
    better covered by a secured loan.  I also cannot understand why DCU
    does not offer an RV loan program.  Anyone have any thoughts?
    
    Dick.

    Re .66:
    
>   I called DCU Info Line yesterday inquiring about a recreational vehicle
>   loan.  DCU does not offer such loans.  However, the helpline person
>   suggested several alternatives, among them using the *UNSECURED* CRT
>   line or VISA credit line increase!
>   
>   It seems that DCU would be better protected by offering *SECURED* RV
>   loans rather than offering to give me *UNSECURED* money to buy one!
    
    They're not as crazy as you might think.  Unsecured loans have a higher
    interest rate to compensate for the additional risk assumed by the
    lender.  DCU's lower-than-average loan default rate implies that it can
    make unsecured loans at better-than-average interest rates and STILL
    come out ahead.  DCU has little incentive to offer secured RV loans if
    there's an inconsequential difference in the actual risk of default.

Is the RV a motorized RV (e.g. a Car loan) or a Trailer ?

    
    
      What kind of "RV"?  Some form of camper,  or a snowmobile type
    	vehicle?  (Do they loan for Boats?)
    
      In order to be successful in any type of business,  the bank
    has to be knowlegable enough about the market in question to
    be able to loan intelligently.  
    
      There are several areas of  "High quality"  loans  (such as
    Personal Aircraft)  which DCU doesn't really participate in,  most
    likely because the anticipated volume doesn't justify developing
    the expertise required to enter the market.
    
      Depending on the type of "RV",  the used asset value may not 
    be high enough to adequately secure the loan amount,  which could
    be another reason for staying out of the business.  
    
      (My personal observation shows that banks like to do consumer loans
    for assets to which there is a state or Federal Title   upon which
    to record the lien.  For other types of vehicles,  it's apparantly
    possible to file a lien,  but a big hassle to do,  and almost 
    impossible to enforce.)
    
    
    						-al