Conference thebay::joyoflex

    The disease has spread over here:
    
    	Worcester	woos-ter
    	Connecticut	ca-net-a-cut
    	Haverhill	hav-rill

    Cirencester is either Siren-sester  or  Sissister
    
    but NOT Chichester
    
    Chichester is its own city on the South coast of England, complete
    with cathedral and is famous for its Roman heritage displayed at
    the nearby Fishbourne Roman Palace.
    
    However not far from Chichester are these two (spot the rule)
    
    Bosham          Bozzum
    Cosham	    Cosh-em
    
    Then going North from Cirencester we have
    
    Cheltenham	    Cheltnum
    Gloucester	    Gloster
    Tewkesbury	    Chooksbry
    Twyning	    Twinning
    
    and of course the most famous
    
    Worcester	    Wuster
    

    
    
    ..and in North Devon
    
    	Woolfardisworthy == Woolsery
    
    Richard.

    
    A couple from Norfolk, England:
    
    	Happisburgh - pronounced haze-burra
    	Costessey   - pronounced cossy
    
    Mat.  (who hails from this delightful part of Great Britain)
    *:o)

    Greenwich  -->  Gren-ich
    Thames     -->  temz
    
    
    It seems as though these tough-to-pronounce words are from Britain
    or New _England_.  And the Brits have the nerve to say that us 
    Yankees don't speek proper Eengrish.  Ain't that a gas ?

    And don't ever mix these two up:
    
    	Gillingham (Kent)	- Jilling'm (soft G)
    	Gillingham (Dorset)	- Gilling'm (hard G)
    
    Jeff.

>	There are some words in English whose pronunciations have no
>	relationship whatsoever with the way they are spelled.

If you want to see an exploration of the close relationship between spelling
and pronunciation in the English language (as opposed to funny place names)
take a look at note 428.0 

	Steve

    There's a place near where I come from (Inverness) called Avoch.
    It's pronounced simply as och, as in broch, loch, and och aye the
    noo jimmy (cringe).
    
    Rod

    
    Some more in England:
    
    Bicester	- Biss-ter	Can't remember the county, ~ West Midlands
    Blackley	- Blake-ly	Greater Manchester
    Altrincham	- Altring-am	Greater Manchester
    
    I guess the last two betray my origins ...
    
    -Jim

    	I used to live near Ugley, and the locals had used the most obvious
    pronunciation for centuries. Then it became fashionable commuter
    country, and the newcomers (particularly the Womens Institute) tried to
    introduce the pronunciation "yoozhley" :-)
    
    	Nothing to do with pronunciation, but a nearby village was
    Hatfield Broad Oak, which was too long for signposts or envelopes and
    so was usually abbreviated to Hatfield B.O.. The newcomers didn't like
    that either.

    Boston    --> BAHHHH-ston
    New York  --> THE city  ( That snobbery makes me sick )

RE: < Note 637.11 by PASTIS::MONAHAN "humanity is a trojan horse" >

That reminds me. A mate of mine used to work at a major brokers in the City. 
One toff came in, and when asked for his address, said he lived in
Day-gen-harm (soft G). It was a few seconds until my mate realised it was 
Dagenham he meant ;^) (for the colonials, it's DaG'num, hard G).

Not to forget St. Reatham (Streatham), and Claaarm (Clapham).

Laurie.

    Let us not forget St. Bothulfston, later spelled Boston, but always
    pronounced that way.

    A couple more from Devon:
    
    Mousehole		- Mow'zl
    Launceston		- Larn'stn

    But ...
    Launceston		- Lawn-sesston		in Tasmania, Australia

Another one from the UK
            
    Oswaldthwistle	- Ozzaltwizzal    

    Leicester - Lester
    

    For someone from Norfolk, I'm surprised .4 didn't have...
                         
    Wymondham	- Windham
    
    Nick

.18�< Note 637.18 by WELMTS::HILL >
.18�                            -< pronouncec windham >-
.18�
.18�    For someone from Norfolk, I'm surprised .4 didn't have...
.18�                         
.18�    Wymondham	- Windham

    They probably couldn't pronounce it.

    >              -< Devonian examples >-
    >
    > A couple more from Devon:
    >
    > Mousehole		- Mow'zl
    > Launceston	- Larn'stn
    
    Ahem!  These are both in Cornwall, not Devon.  Methinks you've been
    sampling the cyder ...
    
    Jeff.

    Re .20:
    
>   Ahem!  These are both in Cornwall, not Devon.  Methinks you've been
>   sampling the cyder ...
    
    <activate_blush_mode>
    
    Thanks, Jeff ... and I can't even claim the cyder excuse that you
    offered me!
    
    <deactivate_blush_mode>
    
    In a spirit of contrition I offer another placename from thereabouts,
    and solicit contributions as to how it should be pronounced:
    
    Fowey	- Foy?	(rhymes with _toy_?)
    
    Jim

    As in "Arkansas wood faster 'n' yous"?

    Idaho, but Alaska.
    
    There is a whole series of these for American states.
    
    "What did Tennessee? She saw a New Jersey."
    
    But it's certainly a digression in a topic for strange
    Brit pronunciations.

    Yup. Makes slightly better sense that way.

    As a kid I heard that as:
    
    If Virginia wore Maryland's [Marilyn's] New Jersey, what did Delaware?
    
    Idaho, Alaska!

    ENOUGH with this state pun Missouri.  "Show me" something better.

    I presume Mr. Mazur comes from Mazuree.

    G'day,
    
    
    I suspect he heard Mr Como's record.....
    
    
    
    ......and Haverfordwest ain't said like its spelled, I'll be bound..
    
    derek
    

>    ......and Haverfordwest ain't said like its spelled, I'll be bound..

    Hate to disappoint you Derek, but last time I was in Wales, it was
    pronounced just as it looks ....
    
    Hav - er - ford - west
    
    But then there are the real Welsh names like Cymru (Wales) pronounced
    
    Coom - ree
    
    where the oo is very clipped like the song "Kum-by-a"

    That's unfair - Welsh (Cymraig) is different language, therefore
    entitled to be pronounced in its own way :-)
    
    Mae hen wlad fy Nhadau dum di dum di dum
    
    Jeff.

>    That's unfair - Welsh (Cymraig) is different language, therefore
>    entitled to be pronounced in its own way :-)

    Heh!  I didn't even imply that Cymru was English ... just noted
    its pronunciation.  Fairness isn't involved.
    
    Haverfordwest is at least PARTLY English ... I'm not sure of the
    origins of "Haver" but the rest is obvious.  Probably the West ford
    over the Haver (assuming the Haver is some body of water).
    
    So there!
    
    Stuart

    G'day,
    
    
    Well now me boyos! I'm sure the last time I was in welsh Wales,
    they said Haverfordwest just like it's spelled.... 
    
    
    
    I mean golly gosh chasps, I was _only_ testing you know. I was sure
    some erudite personage would offer Havvervest or somesuch... 
    
    
    I mean , how about 'Wagga Wagga' from good ole Oz?
    
    
    
    hands up those that said 'Woggah'.
    
    Top marks. Just the one word please, Chalmondeley Featherstonehaugh!
    
    and that well known small city near Cambridge,  'Ely'  How's _that_
    said?
    
    derek
    ;-)
    

    The "Ely" in Minnesota is pronounced "EE lee".

    > The "Ely" in Minnesota is pronounced "EE lee".
    
    So is the real one :-).  Can't see any other way it could be
    pronounced.
    
    Jeff.

    
    
    Somebody may have mentioned it before, but what about
    
    Cholmonldley  = "Chumley"
    
    or 
    
    Cirencester   = "Sister"!
    
    Ian
    

.36�< Note 637.36 by NEARLY::GOODENOUGH >
.36�                       -< Want to try a difficult one? >-
.36�
.36�    > The "Ely" in Minnesota is pronounced "EE lee".
.36�    
.36�    So is the real one :-).  Can't see any other way it could be
.36�    pronounced.

    Not to mention the REAL real one, but I will, Elie in Fife.  This
    is pronounced the same way, but we have got the spelling right.
    
    
    Ian.

    I've always heard Cirencester pronounced siren-sester.

    Depends where you listen.

    G'day
    
    ELY is often pronounced EE lye  
    
    How about Haverhill (Essex)?
    
    djw
    
    

    > ELY is often pronounced EE lye  
    
    By whom, pray? :-)
    
    > How about Haverhill (Essex)?
    
    All in all, I'd rather be in Milton Keynes (NEARLY::FAMOUS_QUOTE)
    
    Jeff.
    

>    All in all, I'd rather be in Milton Keynes (NEARLY::FAMOUS_QUOTE)


    Rochester NY uses this form of advertising
    
    "I'd rather be in Rochester"
    
    
    From what I've seen of it though, I prefer being right where I am
    snow and cold and all!
    
    Stuart
    

    G'day,
    
    
     re Ely - by those who know not better!
    
    
    
    derek
    
    Ps you are here --->.     .<--
                                  |
                                 |
     those in the know are here ---   
    
    :-)

    Hello,
         since this seems to be free rein for any old opinion!!!!
    I live fairly near Cirencester, and when we play them in the local(?)
    Badminton league we always play against Cirencester, never Sissester.
    So there.
    
    However. I'm really from Hampshire. There's a village called Boarhunt
    which was always pronounced Borr'nt (note the glottal stop) until
    the newbies arrived when it reverted to Boarhunt.
    
    I suppose your pronunciation depends on your income.
    
    Mike

>    Badminton league we always play against Cirencester, never Sissester.
>    So there.

Well, just goes to prove that your mileage may differ ... I lived for
a year about 30 miles to the North of said town and often heard it as
Sisister so where does that put us ?
    
    Your personal name sums it up ... "Exceptions rule"
    
    Stuart

Come on, all you Scots, what about:

Wemyss		- Weemz
Kirkcaldy	- Kercoddy
Milngavie	- Milngie (hard 'g', rhymes with lie)
Sauchiehall St.	- Sockiehall street
Menzieshill	- Mingieshill (hard 'g')
Berwick		- Berrick
Lerwick		- Ler-wick


One of my faves, even though it's pronounced as you'd expect, is
Ecclefechan. And it was a couple of years before I realised Burntisland is
pronounced "burnt island" and not "burntizland"...

Ian

    re: .48

>>  Milngavie	- Milngie (hard 'g', rhymes with lie)

    I've always heard this as "Mull-guy".  Was Mom wrong?
    
    -piper (of Kilsyth)

.48�< Note 637.48 by VOGON::JOHNSTON >

.48�Milngavie	- Milngie (hard 'g', rhymes with lie)

    Sorry, Piper of Kilstyh (and Mommy) is right here. 'Mull Guy' is
    correct.
    
.48�Sauchiehall St.	- Sockiehall street
                          ^^^^^^^^^^
    ???? If you are Scottish this is pronounced exactly as it is written.
    The 'ck' is reserved for those of southern extraction who pronounce
    'loch' as 'lock'.
    
.48�Menzieshill	- Mingieshill (hard 'g')

    Not quite right here.  The 'g' is soft, so it should be pronounced
    'ming us hill'.
    
.48�Wemyss		- Weemz

    This is a good one.  Not forgetting East Wemyss, West Weymss, Coalton
    of Weymss etc etc.
    
.48�Kirkcaldy	- Kercoddy

    Students of Billy Connolly will know that 'Kirkcaldy' is actually
    pronounced 'whit's that f***ing smell?'.  They used to make linoleum
    in a big way there, and the railway station was surrounded by lino
    factories.  People arriving there on the train would say...
    
    
.48�                            -< Scotland the brave? >-
      
    Brave? Me??
    
    
    Ian.

Well, I have heard Mull-guy, but I've heard Milnguy (better "phonetic"
spelling) much more often. Ditto Mingieshill - it's a part of Dundee, and
that's where I lived for 10 years. Definitely NOT a soft 'g' (Minjieshill?
no way). And not so many Scots actually use the "proper" 'ch' sound anyway.
I have heard "Leuckars" far more often than I've heard "Leuchars".

Mind you, Dundonian is almost a language of its own. First person to
translate "aninginainanah" gets a gold star...

Ian

.51�< Note 637.51 by VOGON::JOHNSTON >
.51�             -< Maybe for purists, but ask the man on the street >-
.51�
.51�
.51�Well, I have heard Mull-guy, but I've heard Milnguy (better "phonetic"
.51�spelling) much more often. Ditto Mingieshill - it's a part of Dundee, and
.51�that's where I lived for 10 years. Definitely NOT a soft 'g' (Minjieshill?
.51�no way). And not so many Scots actually use the "proper" 'ch' sound anyway.
.51�I have heard "Leuckars" far more often than I've heard "Leuchars".

    I lived in Lundin Links in Fife for the first 17 years of my life.
    Leuchars has always been pronounced correctly, the exceptions being
    our southern cousins.  I lived in Dundee for a year when I was at
    college there, and our residences were at Hillside, just next to
    Menzieshill looking up the Carse (as it were).  Superb views of
    the Tay from there, but I digress.  As far as I know it is pronounced
    Ming (as in 'thing') as (to sound like the 'as' in lucas) hill.
    But do you know the 'correct' pronounciation of Kilconquhar?
    
.51�Mind you, Dundonian is almost a language of its own.
    
    Very true.
    
.51�                                                     First person to
.51�translate "aninginainanah" gets a gold star...
    
    Am I disqualified?  Spoiler follows:
    
    
    
    I would think it translates as "Oh, and another one of your finest
    onions, my good fruit and vegetable merchant!", as they say in Dundee.
    
    Ian.
    

Close, but not quite, "another one of your onions". Keep trying.

And just because I work in Reading, don't assume I'm a Sassenach...
Actually, I'm Irish, and the CORRECT way to spell "loch" is "lough",
pronounced the same way, though. Which leads me on to a stretch of water in
Ireland called "Lough Neagh":

Lough		- as in "loch"
Neagh		- sounds like an equine exclamation


Ian

re .52

PS I forgot: "Kill conker" as far as I know, but I never lived there.

Ian

    As an aside, the derivation of the name Sauchiehall Street is
    interesting.  Until Victorian times it was Sauchiehaugh Street,
    but the Victorians thought that "Haugh" was a corruption of "Hall",
    so they corrected it.  In Lallans, "Haugh" means hollow or valley
    and "Sauchie" means willow tree.  Therefore the name really meant
    the "street of the valley of the willows".  
    
    IJH.

-- don't remember too many willows last time I walked along it.

Ian

.53�< Note 637.53 by VOGON::JOHNSTON >
.53�                               -< Up yer Carse! >-
.53�
.53�And just because I work in Reading, don't assume I'm a Sassenach...

    When did I say that? 8^}
    
.53�Actually, I'm Irish, and the CORRECT way to spell "loch" is "lough",

    Surely they are two different spellings, each as correct as the
    other.  They are, after all, from different languages, albeit two
    very closely related ones.
    
    From a few back, the more unusual way to pronounce Kilconquhar is
    Kin (as in Kinnock) Yeucchhh (as in emetic) Ur (as in the lost city).
    Goodness knows where this came from.  Perhaps Mr Haggerty can enlighten
    us (Why is are we all called Ian?  And we all spell it correctly?).
    
    Oh, and I have had not further ideas about your Dundonian costermonger
    puzzle.  Perhaps somebody else would like a guess?
    
    
    Ian.