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Conference thebay::joyoflex

Title:	The Joy of Lex
Notice:	A Notes File even your grammar could love
Moderator:	THEBAY::SYSTEM

Created:	Fri Feb 28 1986
Last Modified:	Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1192
Total number of notes:	42769

617.0. "i before e except after c" by COMICS::DEMORGAN (Richard De Morgan, UK CSC/CS) Wed Jan 25 1989 10:47

    I notice a lot of NOTES scribblers frequently mis-spell words by
    getting adjacent "i"s and "e"s in the wrong order. We were probably
    all taught the general rule "i before e except after c", but there
    are exceptions, two well-known ones being
    
    	their
    	weird
    
    Anybody got any more?

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
617.1		PASTIS::MONAHAN	humanity is a trojan horse	`Wed Jan 25 1989 11:07`	3
	height, being ancient ("cie" ones seem more difficult, though French has many).
617.2		COMICS::DEMORGAN	Richard De Morgan, UK CSC/CS	`Wed Jan 25 1989 12:47`	1
	weight
617.3	there eesa no sanity clause	MARVIN::KNOWLES	the teddy-bears have their nit-pick	`Wed Jan 25 1989 14:24`	5
	I was taught the rule in the form `i before e except after c, when the e and the i sound "ee"'. There are fewer exceptions to this rule (but `weird' seems to be one). b
617.4		UNTADI::ODIJP	o.......now + here = nowhere.......o	`Wed Jan 25 1989 14:31`	4
	sleigh , freight John J
617.5	the full rule	PSTJTT::TABER	KA1SVY -- the new lid on the block.	`Wed Jan 25 1989 15:17`	10
	I thought someone would give the "full" rule by now, so maybe it's a Boston thing. What we learned in school was "I" before "E" except after "C" or when sounded like "A" as in neighbor or weigh. That makes exceptions for their, weight, sleigh and freight. Weird remains weird, but may be so because it used to be spelt differently (though I forget the older spelling.) >>>==>PStJTT
617.6	Caffeine, anyone?	LOV::LASHER	Working...	`Wed Jan 25 1989 16:29`	5
	Re: .5 We had the same "full" rule in New York that you had in Boston. Lew Lasher
617.7	Two more	CAM::MILLER	Let it snow, let it snow!	`Wed Jan 25 1989 20:10`	1
	how about foreign and neighbor?
617.9	great list! few questions...	IJSAPL::ELSENAAR	Fractal of the universe	`Thu Jan 26 1989 11:21`	22
	RE -1 (Bob) > Here's the results of a `search' on a spelling dictionary for the > letter pair "ei". Great Bob! Just what I needed this morning to wake up! I am missing two other lists, though: 1. the list of english words with three 'e's in a row in it. 2. a list of english words with exactly four 'n's in it, no matter where I wonder whether, er... could you.... Thanks! I knew you would take the challenge! :-) Just a few question about your list in -1: - what is "deveining" and "deveins"? I do imagine something.... - isn't "seisor" spelled as "seizor"? or "seizer"? - "speil" and "speir" are words that I do not use in daily life. Can you tell me what those words mean? Don't let these questions make you lose your enthousiasm: it's really quite a good list... :-) Arie
617.10	Good List	KAOO01::LAPLANTE	THE INTERLOPER	`Thu Jan 26 1989 14:47`	10
	I am copying Bob's list to take home to my son. He always spells _thier_ regardless of the fact that he has been told since grade 2 that he is incorrect. He believes the rule should be 'I' before 'E' except after 'C' and any other damned letter you can think of. He will appreciate the list. Roger
617.11	If I'm fast enough on the reply...	PSTJTT::TABER	It ain't MY navel I'm contemplating	`Thu Jan 26 1989 15:37`	23
	It's always been my dream to answer something like this before Steve Kallis... > what is "deveining" and "deveins"? I do imagine something.... Deveining is an operation you perform on shrimp before eating them. Essentially it's removing their digestive tract, but because people don't like to hear that, they call it a vein. Deveins might be a verb form? I devein, you devein, he/she/it deveins.... > "speil" and "speir" are words that I do not use in daily life. Can you > tell me what those words mean? Speil is what the car salesman says when he's telling you why you want to buy a particular car and only from him. You've probably heard it before, it's pronounced "shpeel." I've seen speir before, but can't remember what it is..... Steve Kallis will know. > Don't let these questions make you lose your enthousiasm: it's really quite a > good list... :-) I'd love to dull the enthusiasm of people who enter thousand-plus line replies.
617.12	I'm sure you always wanted to know, Arie,...	OSL07::HENRIKW	Massage in a bottle	`Thu Jan 26 1989 16:02`	1
	...that "speil" is "mirror" in Norwegian. :^)
617.13		UNTADI::ODIJP	o.......now + here = nowhere.......o	`Thu Jan 26 1989 17:02`	4
	I thought it was spelt , spiel , as in the German 'game' or 'play' . John J
617.14	Play on Words?	DRUMS::FEHSKENS		`Thu Jan 26 1989 17:03`	6
	re .11 - my dictionary spells spiel "spiel", with exactly the meaning you have described. Spiel is German for "play" (as in what children do, rather than what actors perform in). len.
617.15	EI words	COOKIE::DEVINE	Bob Devine, CXN	`Thu Jan 26 1989 19:41`	781
	I deleted the .8 reply because the numerous misspelled words. The following list is better (at least it looks better after a cursory scan). This list comes from a different lexicon. Bob ========= absenteeism aeneid agapeic agapeically ageing agreeing airfreight alamein albeit allogeneic anaheim andrei aniseikonia aniseikonic anteing apartheid apodeictic apperceive atheism atheist atheistic atheistical atheistically atheists autocueing aweigh bantamweight basileis beiderbecke beige beigy being beings beirut bernstein beseige birdieing birthweight blueing bodleian bodyweight boeing brandeis brunei budweiser budweisers caffeine caffeinic canoeing canoeist casein cassiopeia casteism ceil ceiling ceilinged ceilings ceilometer ceinture cepheids checkrein clueing codeine coheir coheiress conceit conceited conceitedly conceitedness conceits conceivability conceivable conceivableness conceivably conceive conceived conceiver conceives conceiving concertmeister contemporaneity corporeity counterfeit counterfeited counterfeiter counterfeiting counterfeits counterweight counterweights cueing cuneiform deadweight decaffeinate decaffeinated decaffeinates decaffeinating deceit deceitful deceitfully deceitfulness deceivable deceivableness deceive deceived deceiver deceives deceiving deceivingly decreeing deification deified deify deifying deign deigned deigning deigns deionization deionize deionized deism deist deistic deistical deistically deities deity deoxyribonucleic diaphaneity diarrheic dieing disagreeing dyeing eichmann eider eiderdown eidetic eidetically eidolon eigenvalue eigenvalues eigenvector eigenvectors eight eighteen eighteens eighteenth eightfold eighth eighths eighties eightieth eights eighty eileen ein eine einstein einsteinian einsteinium eire eisenhower either eleison emceeing enceinte enqueueing epstein extemporaneity eyeing fahrenheit fahrenheits farseeing featherweight feeing feign feigned feigner feigning feigns feint feinted feinting feints feist feistier feisty fideism fideist fideistic filigreeing fleeing fluorescein flyweight foreign foreigner foreigners foreignism foreignly foreignness foreseeing forfeit forfeitable forfeited forfeiter forfeiters forfeiting forfeits forfeiture forfeitures frankenstein freeing freight freightage freighted freighter freighters freighting freights geeing geiger geisha geishas geist glueing glycoprotein glycoproteins gneiss gneissic guaranteeing guggenheim heavyweight heidelberg heifer height heighten heightened heightening heights heine heinous heinously heinousness heinrich heinz heir heiress heirless heirloom heirs heirship heist heisted heister heisting heists hemoprotein henotheism henotheist henotheistic herein hereinabove hereinafter hereinbefore hereinbelow heterogeneity hieing hoeing holstein homogeneity howbeit hundredweight hundredweights imperceivable inconceivability inconceivable inconceivableness inconceivably incorporeity instantaneity inveigh inveigher inveigle inveigled inveiglement inveigler inveigling iodoprotein kaleidoscope kaleidoscoped kaleidoscopes kaleidoscopic kaleidoscopical kaleidoscopically kaleidoscoping karateist keith klein kneeing lateiner lei leibnitz leicester leiden leif leigh leighton leila leipzig leisure leisured leisureliness leisurely leitmotif leitmotiv leveeing liechtenstein lightweight lightweights lipoprotein lipoproteins logorrheic lorelei luteinization luteinize madeira madeleine makeweight marbleize marbleized marbleizes marbleizing marseilles mattei mein meiosis meiotic meiotically meister meistersinger metaprotein microseism microseismic microseismicity middleweight miscellaneity misconceit misconceive misconceiver misoneism monotheism monotheist monotheistic monotheistical monotheistically mythopoeic neigh neighbor neighbored neighborhood neighborhoods neighboring neighborliness neighborly neighbors neighbour neighbourhood neighbourhoods neighbouring neighbours neighing neil neilson neisse neither nisei niseis nonpareil nonprotein nonreimbursable nuclei nucleic nuclein nucleoprotein obeisance obeisant obeisantly oeillade ogreish oneida oneiric oneirocritic oneirocritical oneirocritically oneiromancy onomatopoeia osteitis outweigh outweighed outweighs overseeing overweigh overweight pantheism pantheist pantheistic pantheistical pantheistically paperweight peeing peignoir peiping perceivable perceivably perceive perceived perceiver perceives perceiving pharmacopoeia philaletheis pieing pilei pixieish plebeian plebeianism plebeianly poltergeist polypneic polytheism polytheist polytheistic polytheistical pompeii poseidon preconceive preconceived preignition preinduction preindustrial premeiotic preweighed prosopopoeia proteid proteide protein proteinaceous proteinase proteinate proteins proteinuria proteinuric pureeing queueing raleigh razeeing receipt receipted receipting receipts receivable receivables receive received receiver receivers receivership receives receiving refugeeism reich reichsmark reichstag reification reified reify reifying reign reigned reigning reigns reimbursable reimburse reimburseable reimbursed reimbursement reimbursements reimburses reimbursing reimpose reimpression rein reina reincarnate reincarnated reincarnation reincarnationist reincorporate reincorporated reindeer reine reined reinfection reinforce reinforceable reinforced reinforcement reinforcements reinforcer reinforcers reinforces reinforcing reinitialize reinless reins reinsert reinserted reinsman reinstall reinstalled reinstate reinstated reinstatement reinstates reinstating reinstitute reinstituted reinstitution reinsurance reinsure reinsurer reintegrate reintegrated reintegration reintegrative reinterpret reinterpretation reinterpreted reinterprets reintroduce reintroduced reintroduces reinvent reinvention reinvest reinvested reinvestigation reinvesting reinvestment reinvestments reinvigorate reinvigoration reinvigorator reissue reiterate reiterated reiterates reiterating reiteration reiterative reiteratively reiterativeness reiterator reive reiver reiving reveile reveille reveilles rheims rhinotracheitis ribonucleic ribonucleoprotein rogueing rottosei rottweiler rubinstein sansei sanseis scarabaeid schweitzer seborrheic seeing segueing sei seicento seiche seidel seigneur seigneurial seigneury seignior seigniorage seigniory seignorage seignorial seignory seiko seine seiner seining seise seisin seism seismic seismicity seismogram seismograph seismographer seismographic seismographs seismography seismological seismologist seismology seismometric seismometry seize seized seizer seizes seizing seizure seizures semeiology sheik sheikdom sheikh sheikhdom sheila shoeing sightseeing simultaneity singeing skeigh skein sleigh sleight snowshoeing sovereign sovereignly sovereigns sovereignty spaeing sparteine speir speiss spiegeleisen spontaneity squeegeeing steichen stein steinbeck steinberg steiner stymieing surfeit surfeited surfeiter surveil surveillance surveillances surveillant swingeing synchroneity syngeneic taipei teeing teiid terreplein their theirs theism theist theistic theistical theistically theists therein thereinafter thereinto tholeiite tholeiitic tieing tingeing tiptoeing toeing tracheid tracheidal tracheitis transceiver treeing treillage tritheism tritheist tritheistic tritheistical trueing trusteeing turnverein twingeing unageing unconceivable undeceive underweight unfeigned unfeignedly unperceived unseeing unveil unveiled unveiling unveils unweight uraei ureide uveitis veil veiled veiling veils vein veinal veined veiner veining veinlet veinous veins veiny velleity vermeil vicereine villein weigh weighable weighed weigher weighing weighs weight weighted weighter weightier weightily weightiness weighting weightless weightlessly weightlessness weightlifted weightlifting weights weighty weimar weimaraner weiner weir weird weirdest weirdie weirdies weirdly weirdness weirdo weirdos weirdy weirs weisenheimer wellbeing welterweight wherein whereinto wisenheimer zeitgeist
617.16		KAOFS::S_BROOK	Here today and here again tomorrow	`Thu Jan 26 1989 20:08`	5
	A lot of these exceptions fall foul of the "rule" because the ei combination is not pronounced as a diphthong but are in fact pronounced separately and distinctly. Stuart
617.17	ask and you shall rec(ie?)(ei?)(ee?)(ea?)ve!	LAMHRA::WHORLOW	Prussiking up the rope of life!	`Thu Jan 26 1989 22:21`	17
	G'day, Now here I am, lots of years old, and it had never occured to me that such words as neigh, weigh.... had an 'ei' letter combination that should be suffered the imposition of the 'i before e' rule. I guess I had never stopped to consider it. Ahhh ignorance is such bliss... To me weigh is spell(t)(ed) 'weigh' with no more ado. If not careful, I shall be like the millipede that stood transfixed because it was asked which leg it moved first! I shall never spell anything! derek
617.18	how many legs in this weighty topic ?	KAOFS::S_BROOK	Here today and here again tomorrow	`Thu Jan 26 1989 23:08`	15
	> If not careful, I shall be like the millipede that stood transfixed > because it was asked which leg it moved first! I shall never spell > anything! Hmmmmm new version of the old Centipede classic A centipede was happy quite Until a frog in fun asked "when you walk, which leg goes before which" At this the centipede was all in a fix as he rolled over into a ditch pondering how on earth he could run
617.19	hectopede	EAGLE1::EGGERS	Tom, VAX & MIPS architecture	`Fri Jan 27 1989 01:10`	2
	That centipede is clearly misnamed. According to its name, it has only .01 feet. It should be called a hectopede. Similarly for a kilopede.
617.20	Slow, but fast enough. 8^}	AYOV27::ISMITH	With New Two-way Lemon Freshness!	`Fri Jan 27 1989 14:36`	10
	.11�< Note 617.11 by PSTJTT::TABER "It ain't MY navel I'm contemplating" > .11� -< If I'm fast enough on the reply... >- .11� .11�> "speil" and "speir" are words that I do not use in daily life. Can you Where are you Steve? As far as I know 'speir' means to ask, or to question. I have come across it several times in old Scots writing. Any advance on that? Ian.
617.21	:"Deveining" revisited	BLAS03::FORBES	Bill Forbes - LDP Engrng	`Fri Jan 27 1989 15:43`	14
	Re: .11 At first glance, it would seem that "deveining" and "deveins" follow the rule because the diphthong "...sounds like A as in neighbor and weigh." However, on the Gulf coast, where many shrimp and their "veins" part company, the word is universally pronounced "divined". Is this true in other parts of the country? Incidently, how many people pronounce the word "diphthong" properly (i.e., according to Webster's first=preferred pronunciation)? Bill
617.22		AITG::DERAMO	Daniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D'Eramo	`Fri Jan 27 1989 18:47`	5
	re .19 Hectopede? For a moment there I thought this was note 600! Dan
617.23	A mille pardons	SSDEVO::GOLDSTEIN		`Fri Jan 27 1989 19:46`	9
	Re: .19 > That centipede is clearly misnamed. According to its name, it > has only .01 feet. ... Similarly for a kilopede. And a century has only .01 years - from the Latin _cent_, meaning hundred. ... From the Latin _mille_, meaning thousand. Bernie
617.24		EAGLE1::EGGERS	Tom, VAX & MIPS architecture	`Fri Jan 27 1989 21:40`	4
	Re: .23 You mean we don't update all those words to reflect the naming conventions of metrication? That's no fun at all!
617.25	Tongue-tie 'em!	VAXUUM::T_PARMENTER	Gonna set my chickens free!	`Mon Jan 30 1989 18:17`	3
	The equivalent of asking a centipede which leg goes first is to ask a human how they keep their tongue from getting in the way.
617.26	try talking without moving your tongue	GIDDAY::VISSER	On a clear day, you can see vacation	`Mon Jan 30 1989 23:46`	7
	RE -.1 Getting in the way of what? (He innocently asks) ..klaas..
617.27		EAGLE1::EGGERS	Tom, VAX & MIPS architecture	`Tue Jan 31 1989 00:16`	4
	Re: .26 I can talk without my tongue moving. The more interesting question is can you understand me when I do it.
617.28	ationization	ELWOOD::FRIDAY		`Tue Jan 31 1989 17:37`	11
	Re: .24 >>>conventions of metrication ^^^^^^^^^^^ I was about to suggest it should be "metrification" when I decided to look in the dictionary first. Which suggests a new discussion. Why metrication and not metrification or metrization or metricization? How may other ways of ationizing words are there? Rich
617.29	Official Canadian Terminology	KAOO01::LAPLANTE	THE INTERLOPER	`Wed Feb 01 1989 14:38`	10
	According to the governmento of Canada it is _metricate_ and derivations. We have been going through _metrication_ for some time now. All speed limits, gasoling sales, and most food packaging is now in metric units. We have been _metricated_ or they sometimes use _metrified_. Roger
617.30	leisure	MARVIN::KNOWLES	the teddy-bears have their nit-pick	`Fri Feb 03 1989 15:41`	1

617.31		KAOFS::S_BROOK	Here today and here again tomorrow	`Fri Feb 03 1989 16:08`	7
	This is one instance where dialect is probably closer the mark ... Most pronounce it as if it was les-yer but dialects would have either lay-zyer (obeying the pronounced as 'a' rule) or as leezyer (obeying the 2 vowels together 2nd silent rule). Take yer pick (nick)
617.32		RDGENG::MACFADYEN	Just a Persistent Message Object	`Fri Mar 17 1989 16:57`	6
	Re .11 and .20: Speir is a Scottish word, still in use, meaning to ask probing questions. Rod