Conference thebay::joyoflex

    
    It should mean 'at' , as in   " 40 hours @ $10 per hour ..."
    
    But there may be more .
    
    John J

< Note 568.0 by GYPSC0::BINGER "beethoven was dutch" >

His name is "van Beethoven".
And thought this sounds Dutch, he surely was German!

Did I miss the topic?

:-)
Arie

    in the VT240 user's guide it is referred to as a "commercial at"
    
    like when you sell something, it's "8 apples @ .50", which would
    be $4.00
    
    -Jody
    

    Way back in '55, basic math was taught that @ was "at the cost of"
    
    Paul

     I call it a "capital 2" (that's where it is on my keyboard).
     
     Dan

If you break the symbol down, you'll see that it's a lower-case "a" with 
the tail extending around it.  It was a shorthand way of saying "at" and 
it is called an "at" or "at sign" or whatever, and replaces that word.

						>>>==>PStJTT

     I also call it "thumbprint" :-)
     
     Dan

    re .2
    
    beethoven was 'van', and if he lived today would still be Dutch....
    
    Old german saying "if a cat is born in a fishshop does that make
    him a fish???"

>    beethoven was 'van', and if he lived today would still be Dutch....
    
... and old.

If [van] Beethoven lived today, he would have been dead for 161 years.

re: .9

>>    beethoven was 'van', and if he lived today would still be Dutch....
    
>... and old.

	Would that make him a stale cigar (i.e. an old Dutch Master)?
	{`Dutch Master' is a brand of cigar}

Clay

    
    I believe the proper abbreviation for circa is simply "c." 
    
    dmh
    

    re .5
     
        @ --> capital 2
    
        Capital 2 is Dublin all the time
    

    G'day,
    
    
    I've seen '@' referred to as 'snail'!
    
    'Owever, if its a commercial at, praps it should be called 'Bowler'.
    
    I like that
    
    6 apples bowler 20p is �1.20.    ie �1.20 for a bowler fruit.
    
    djw
    

      I believe the proper abbreviation for _circa_ is _ca._
      
      Dave C.

    Beethoven certainly was German, born in Bonn and later became Autrian.
    His father also was German. (By the way there are many Germans (nad
    other European nationals) who have the "van" "von" "zum" or "von
    und zum" in their names).
    Rudi.
    

    I've heard @ being referred to as "arobas" (sp?). Explanation, anyone?
                                                                   
          
    Also: what's the � called? In Italian, it's called "piede di mosca"
    (fly foot), Knuth calls it \pilcrow, but I've never found pilcrow
    in my dictionaries.                      
          
    John

    The '@' is called a Klammeraffer (spider-monkey) in German.
    
    Rob

     What about:  �����
     
     Dan

    I hate to sound authoritative, but he Chicago Style Manual says
    @ = at.  The Abbreviations Dictionary also says @ = at.  This guide
    also spells out the special names of symbols where there are any,
    i.e. & = and (ampersand).  In none of the sources I checked was
    a name given to @ except the "translation", at.  So, I guess that's
    that!
    
    (As for the other symbols inquired about, on my terminal a solid
    box is a solid box is a solid box -- make of them whatever you will!)
    
    :^)  Sherry

     The solid box, I call it "smudge".
     
     Dan

    Re: .16:
    
    >> what's the � called?
    
    In American English, a "pilcrow"

    re .15
    
    Sorry Rudi, Beethoven and his father were gastarbeiters, His father
    came to work in Germany (kapelmeister) and Ludwig van then happened
    to be born in Germany.
    
    Bieng born in Germany never has and still does not give citizenship
    entitlement.
    
    If you wish I will try to establish the exact nationality of Beethoven
    for you.... 
    
    Regards
    Stephen
    

RE -1 (Stephen)

>    If you wish I will try to establish the exact nationality of Beethoven
>    for you.... 

I will be interested too! I always had heard the story the other way around:
just because some female ancestor grabbed a dutchie doesn't make someone a
dutchie. Oh well. Truth will be somewhere in the middle, I guess.

Arie

    Beethovens father also was German, as well as his mother. The
    Kapellmeister is right, and this Kapellmeister was young Beethovens
    best (but most insisting) teacher.
    Rudi.
    

    If it makes any difference, I call the "@" sign the "at sign".
    
    As for the smudge/pilcrow/solidbox/piede di mosca, I don't even
    have one on my keyboard (bummer...).  Wouldn't that make you cry
    @ a Beethoven concert in Germany or Austria?
    
    I think I covered everything.
    
    Dean
    

    Hit the Compose Character key, then hit "P" and "!".  Or lower
    case "p".  Or reverse the order of the last two keys hit.
    �lease try it.
    
    						Ann B.

    Under RSX-11 ( remember that? ), when you execute a command file 
    ( @commfile ) and you are logged into terminal TT24: for instance,
    you end up with a task name of AT.T24 .
    
    Also, when I tell users to execute a command file, I usually tell
    them to "@" it.  Isn't computer English wonderful; you can turn
    an old symbol used for pricing into a transitive verb!
    
    d

    Can we meld the two things?
    
    As I understand it, the "van" or the German "von," like the "d'"
    in the Romance languages, had an implication of nobility (thus,
    "von Kallis" would mean "the noble branch of the Kallis family").
    Aparently it means something like "of."
    
    @ means "at."
    
    "@ Beethoven" would thus suggest "at Beethoven"; this might imply
    the parentage of an illegitimate child.
    
    Just a thought ...
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    It is well established that Beethoven was French. His real
    name was Louis de B�te-au-vent, and he was the brother of his
    sister Marguerite. It his only at the age of 64 that he moved
    to Holland/Germany.

    There's lot of evidence on this. For example in "Madame Bovary",
    Flaubert writes: � As-tu vu Louis ce matin ? �. 
    
    Also remember Stendhal, in "Le Rouge et le Noir" chapt 6: � Louis 
    s'approcha du lit, mais il n'entendit pas venir le chien �.
    
    In a beautiful poem Rilke doesn't hesitate to write: 
    � Der Ludwig, der in Paris Kartoffeln frisst,
      H�rt gar nichts ..."

    Do I need to say more ? There's also some convincing lines in 
    "Macbeth" (American version) and Plutarque also said something 
    on the subject.
    
    I hope this will clear the confusion once and for all.
    
   	roger

    How about getting the van v. von team to go up against the kudo
    v. kudos team to debate the use of meld (OHG "announce") above?

    >   "The plural of cactus is cactuses"

    No. The plural is "ducactus".  The earliest citation from
    the OED is from 1902 -- "Hey Clem, lookee dere at dem dere
    du cactus!".  A certain strain that grows in the Massachusetts
    area have thick growth patches commonly called the brows.
    
    Note: a ducactus is not be confused with the common species
    of bush though hot air is often emitted from both of these plants.

     re .30      (OHG "announce")
     
     What does "OHG" mean?
     
     Dan

    The word this word was derived from means "announce" in Old High
    German.  Dictionary shorthand.  OE = Old English, ME = Middle English,
    Skt = Sanskrit, etc.

 OHG = Old High German. The point of .30, I take it, is that "meld" does
not strictly mean "combine"; it means "display." My Century Dictionary,
vintage 1934, defines "meld" as a technical term from the world of
pinochle meaning "display and announce a point count."
 I'm a little fuzzy on the further details, but I seem to recall that in
some OTHER card game one "melds" (in the original sense) by combining
cards from several places into one's hand before placing the result on
the table and announcing the point total. Hence the word has acquired
the additional sense of "combine."
 In fact, even as I was typing this I overheard someone in the corridor
saying "So if a customer wants to for instance meld an INGRES and an
RDB database..." Clearly the original sense is getting lost in the
overtones.
 How many of you think I should go straighten the guy out?
 How many think I should go ask him his views on whether you can bestow
a single kudo?

-John

    re. .29
    
    Bonn belonged to the French before and after the time of van Beethoven.
    The transfer to Germany came spmewhat later.. 
    
    Also if we trace his ancestory back. They came from somewhere on
    the French Belgium border..
    
    The only thing German about van Beethoven was subsequent ownership of
    the town in which he lived and worked.... Before he moved to Austria.    

Here at the Jerusalem facility, the symbol in question is referred to as
a "strudel".  (After all, it certainly looks like one.)  I don't sure whether
this is common in Israel, or is simply a local DEC-ism.

    On old IB@ keypunches which didn't have apostrophes, it was used
    instead of an apostrophe.
    
    On new IB@ keypunches which don't have up-arrows, it is used
    instead of an up-arrow.
    
    But it also had an even older use.  I B @@@@ting you not.
    
    But as to why one of their models was not called PC-@, I cannot
    guess.
    
    --------
    
    Re. Beethoven, nationality, etc.
    
    Indeed, most governments of the world do not assign citizenship
    according to birthplace, but solely according to parentage (and
    sometimes only one kind of parent, guess which one).  I have
    never figured out why the people constituting these governments
    were not forced to return to their ancestral homes in Africa --
    after all, that is the only citizenship that could have been
    inherited under their own laws.
    
    But if we look at the language Beethoven used in most of
    his writings, obviously he was Italian.
    
    -------
    
    Re. circa
    
    The English abbreviations are "c." and "ca"
    while American abbreviations are "c." and "ca."
    but who knows what the correct (i.e. Latin) abbreviations were?

Re .37

>    On old IB@ [sic] keypunches which didn't have apostrophes, it was used
>    instead of an apostrophe.  

I assume you mean IBM keypunch machines, probably model 026.  (Btw, I
see no reason to disguise the name of the company which manufactured the
machine we're talking about.  We're certainly not violating their
rights!)

On old IBM keypunches which didn't have commercial at signs, the
apostrophe was used instead.

Both statements about substitution are correct because both the
apostrophe and the commercial at sign shared the same card code (8-4).
There were different *interpretations* of BCDIC used for different
kinds of applications.  You could order a keypunch machine (and, for
that matter, a printer) with the set you needed for your business.

Dave C.