Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    The signs look similiar to an old movie camera viewed from
    the side. Some signs even have written on them "POLICE
    ENFORCEMENT CAMERAS". I can't be bothered to draw it.
    
    18 of the 21 GATSOMETER's installed in the London area are
    dummies. That is to say that the dummy cameras are installed
    with only a radar and a flash. This basically seems to say 
    that all the police are trying to do is deter speeding motorists
    as opposed to catching all and sundry.
    
    Therefore there are only three Gatsometers which have cameras.
    The camera itself is a 35mm jobby with a shutter speed of 1/1,000
    sec with an 800 frame cassette film.
    
    Info thanks to Auto Express.
    
    JN.
    

    the ones I saw on the M3 into London were a picture of an old
    'squeeze-box' type camera , viewed from the side, in black with a white
    background. No words

    
    re -1.
    
    Thats a better desciption.
    
    JN.

    
>    Does anyone know if they are in use on the A40 by Northolt Aerodrome,
>    just off the end of the M40 ?
    
    
    Yes. A friend of mine works for the London Borough of Hillingdon, and      
    that was (I believe) their first camera installation.
                                                                    
    John

    Oh dear.
    
    Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
    
    Time to wait to see if I get done.  I was doing "a bit" more than 70,
    and in a 50 limit too!
    
    John

    Anyone got any idea how long I'm going to have to sweat before:
    .  a letter appears, inviting me to court, or
    .  I can relax and think I've had a lucky escape
    
    I'm going to be MUCH more careful in future...
    
    John

From Herb Caen's column in the San Francisco Chronicle:

A motorist was unknowingly caught in an automated speed trap that measured his 
speed using radar and photographed his car.  He later received in the mail a 
ticket for $40, and a photo of his car.  Instead of payment, he sent the police 
department a photograph of $40.  Several days later, he received a letter from 
the police department that contained another picture -- of handcuffs.

    RE: .1
    
    And the make of the camera is . . .
    
    NIKON
    
    !

    Wonder how long it will take for car fleet to get these processed.
    
    1) Driver speeds. gets snapped (maybe!) by camera.
    
    2) Police system registers the licence plate and they cross reference
    this with their computer. This (in the case of a fleet driver) is shown
    as either Hertz or PHH. They get sent the bill.
    
    3) Hertz/PHH figure out that this one is for Digital so send it to Car
    Fleet.
    
    4) car Fleet (maybe!) evantually trace it to the driver.
    
    How long do you think all this will take ?

    < How long do you think all this will take ?
    
    I hope it's quick, otherwise you could trip another 3 traps in
    the intervening period and loose your license for 12 months !
    
    -Dave.
    

After a long lost drive through Wolverhampton a few weeks back I can tell
you without any doubt that the camera signs which look like very old
fashioned cameras are for the traffic light cameras (you know ... the
ones which snap your piccy when you jump the lights)

..Les...
--
+---------------------------------------+ 
|Les Carleton (Digital Equipment Corp) /  "The Software Lifeguard" 
|Digital Services (CSC/UK Unix Group) /   Tel: +44 (256) 488351 
|"Opinions? Mine ... not DEC's"      /    Internet: [email protected]    
+-----------------------------------+  
	"Open Standards ... Free Software ... Live free or Fry!"
[posted by Notes-News gateway]

Breakfast  Telly this morning said that first court cases would not be until
Feb 93. 

    
    In Auto Express they actually showed a picture of a Bentley
    doing 68 MPH just after coming onto the elevated section
    London bound (Chiswick flyover). I would guess that any
    speed camera is triggered into action if any motor is 10
    MPH or more over the speed limit.
    
    This camera is plainly visible but I don't recal seeing any
    warning signs.
    
    Of the eighteen cameras that just contain radar and a flash it
    should be remembered that these "dummy" Gatso's still record
    data. Although photos are not taken the Police will colate and
    use this data to determine whether tighter speed controls need to
    be enforced in the dummy Gatso's location. So what mayy be a dummy
    today could actually take pictures tomorrow, so beware.
    
    One thing is for sure and that is the camera at the start of the
    Chiswick Flyover is the real thing so make sure you are doing under
    60 when you hit this or even better 50 MPH.
    
    JN.

    Apparently the formula for the "trip speed" is....
    
    	Speed limit + 10% + 2
    
    	So it's 46 for 40, 57 for 50, etc
    
    When they put the first camera on the A3 Kingston bypass for a trial,
    the police expected to have to change the 800 shot film every week.
    They ended up changing it every hour! Apparently BMWs were the most
    common speeders, and Fiestas were the star red light jumpers.

    According to the TV report mentioned earlier, it also said that
    penalty points run concurrently. So, if you get caught 4 times in one
    day and all 4 charges are taken care of in one court appearance the
    points awarded are concurrent not cumulative.
    
    Lisa.
    

Another thing mentioned by a TV report (Top Gear) was that the police had the 
ability to set the detection threshold of the cameras, so this would not 
necessarily be  10% + 2mph, could be higher, could be lower... :-)

    I believe the law is quite clear (as ever!!??) in this matter.
    
    Example 1. Driver A is snapped twice, by a camera at each end of a
    road. Even though he was caught twice, this would be deemed to be one
    "instance". Driver A would be penalised for one offence.(probably the 
    worst one!).
    
    
    Example 2. Driver B is snapped twice, once in Stratford and an hour
    later in the West End ( must be 3am on a Sunday! ). This would be
    treated as two offences.Driver B is forced to sell his Ferrari
    to pay both fines!
    
    Does anyone knoe a good lawyer ?
    
    Graham 

    I went back today and re-checked the road, looking for the cameras.  I
    found three, and to my relief they were all in places where I had been
    behaving well yesterday.
    
    The area where I had been doing "a bit" over 70 is in fact a 70 limit,
    not a 50 limit, and didnt appear to have any cameras anyway.
    
    So, I've hopefully been lucky, and wont get an invitation to court.  I
    feel chastened by the experience however - it will make me more
    observant, and will keep my speed down in future.
    
    John

    
    
    Thats the general idea.
    
    JN.

    Apparently you get the letter (and photo?) within three days.
    
    Simon

    
    
    	It seems to me that all the cameras are put in sensible places and
    	set to trigger at sensible speeds. My worry is that once these	
    	cameras have been around for a while (and the need for good PR isnt
    	quite so important ) the trigger speeds will come down and the
    	cameras will be placed at maximum revenue points rather then 
    	accident blackspots!
    
    	Am I an old cynic ?
    
    
    	Graham.

RE:     <<< Note 1948.21 by WELCLU::DREW "Not another marzipan mercenary !" >>>
    
�    	Am I an old cynic ?
    
    Realistic, I should think.
    
    Laurie.

I order to help increase the awareness of drivers who read CARS_UK, i
hope that you find the following information useful ...

mb

p.s.

If any moderators zap this reply for some reason, all you gotta do is
wait until Tuesday then buy "The London Speed Trap Map", price �3.99!!


Locations of Police speed cameras in London
-------------------------------------------

Road Dir.   Location                                         Speed Limit
---- ----   --------                                         -----------

A1    s/b   Hornsey Lane Bridge                              30mph
A1    s/b   Madras Road?                                     30mph
A1    s/b   South of 7 sisters roundabout                    30mph
A219  s/b   Wood Lane 100 yrds North of Sheperds Bush
A205  ?     Between Mortlake Cemetary and Kew
A3    n/b   Robinhood roundabout                             40mph
A312  s/b   Layby 100 yrds South M4 J4                       Nat.Limit
A312  n/b   Layby 100 yrds South M4 J4                       Nat.Limit
A316  w/b   Twickenham Bridge                                40mph
A315  e/b   Twickenham outside Winning Post
A316  e/b   Hanwell by Shell garage
M4    e/b   Start of elevated section after J1               50mph
M4    e/b   On ramp J2                                       50mph
M4    e/b   J1                                               50mph
A4    e/b   Next to feeder lane from Hogarth roundabout      50mph
A4    e/b   Bath Road LHS near Hotel Ibis
A4    both  Great West Road Osterley Station
A40   e/b   Footbridge Swakelys Corner                       50mph
A40   e/b   Hanger Lane behind A406 sign before off ramp     ?mph
A40   ?     Car supermarket                                  ?mph
A406  n/b   Gunnersbury Lane 200 yrds North of Chiswick Rbt  40mph
A406  n/b   Gunnersbury lane 50yrds South of Brunswick Road  ?mph
A406  e/b   Ikea lights 100yrds past Sunbury Cross?          30mph

------------------------------------------------------------------------

    	By the way, don't take the directions as an excuse to blast past
    the other way, as most, if not all, of the ones sited on central
    reservations can be turned around!   :-)

     
      Is this correct ?
    
    These are both on the A316
    
    A316  w/b   Twickenham Bridge                                40mph
    A315  e/b   Twickenham outside Winning Post
    
    Should this read Hanworth ? Hanwell is near Southall on the A4020
    
    A316  e/b   Hanwell by Shell garage
     
                   John

    
   > Should this read Hanworth ? Hanwell is near Southall on the A4020
   > 
   > A316  e/b   Hanwell by Shell garage
     
    Isn't this the Greenford road - runs at 90 degrees to The Uxbridge Rd
    
    The camera is a at bad spot - several people have been killed along
    here. 
    
    Ian 

Re: .25 - Confirming location

I can't be exactly sure, because my list was a several-thousandth
generation photo-copy, but maybe someone can buy the definitive "map"
which should now be out, and check.

If only we has lists for the rest of the country!


mb

    BTW congrats Martin, on your recent journalism award
    ;-)

	Has this been reported before? I can't remember anything
about it, but there are Gatsos in Reading. I spent an hour chatting
to a friendly AA man the other day, when my car broke down, and I
asked him if he had seen any Gatsos. He said that there are three
in Reading that he knows of, and said that they have been there for
about six months. They are at road junctions and catch people
jumping the lights, but he also thought that they doubled as speed
traps.

	This morning I saw one, at the bottom of Southampton Street
at the traffic lights, a grey box up a pole with "Gatso" clearly
writ large upon it... Are they just the light-jumper variants? Or
do they measure speed as well? Another one is supposed to be on
London Street, at the lights again?

    	I believe that the traffic light gatsos and speeding gatso's are
    quite seperate setups and the TL one's are specifically there to catch
    people running red-lights.  As such, their locations tend to not be
    reported in the same way as the speed ones are.

    As far as I know, there are only traffic-light-jumping Gatso's in
    Reading (and they've been there for quite some months now).
    
    I've been told that they've only got one actual camera, and move it
    from box to box. (The cameras are seriously expensive).
    
    D.

    Does anyone have any experience of French speed cameras? I think I was
    photographed speeding yesterday by an unmarked police car on the Reims
    to Calais motorway. Will they bother to track me down?
    
    Incidentally, for anyone anticipating a trip to France in the near
    future, beware innocent looking family saloons parked on the hard
    shoulder!
    
    Alison

RE: -.1

The French police are 'on the spot fine' specialists. You would normally expect
to be pulled in further up the road.

-Steve

    
    The French cameras are a real nuisance! Not only do you find them
    in innocent family cars on the hard shoulder, but they also "flash"
    you when the family car is in motion! 
    
    I've been "flashed" a number of times and have always expected to 
    be pulled up at the toll booths but it's never happened. And I've
    never had any follow-up either.
    
    The radar traps on the other hand are a different story!
    
    Richard.

    Thanks, Richard. I was hoping that someone else had had a similar thing
    happen to them and not been tracked down. I'll keep my fingers crossed
    that I don't hear anything more.
    
    Cheers...Alison

    	I saw a new type of camera sign today; normal camera shape but with
    an amber background. Presumably meaning a temporary installation as
    they were along the contraflow section of the M25 between the M4 & the
    M40. There were cameras there but they looked like traffic-monitoring
    camera rather than GATSOs, although I doubt that it makes much
    difference as there's normally a Police 4wd parked along one side or
    the other!

    What is the normal waiting period ?; i've heard it could be from 3 days
    to 2 months (private owner, so no chasing after PHH/Herts, etc).
    
    Raj

I may be wrong, but I thought they had to contact you within two weeks.

You can imagine the backlog if they didn't get their act together.

A

    
    [[  30mph over the limit  ]]
    
    
    
    *Doing time at her majesties pleasure*         ;-).
    
    
    	Andy..

    I'm not so sure now. I went passed the same spot yesterday to have a
    closer look. The M40 motorway ends about half mile before the camera.
    From the end of the motorway to the camera there is only a "End of
    motorway" sign. The first 50 speed limit sign appears around the camera
    location or just after it. So i'm hoping I was done in the 70 MPH limit
    zone rather than the 50. 
    
    Seems stupid to me to place a camera between 2 different speed limit
    zones. 
    
    Raj (Still hoping it wasn't loaded)

    
    Dont know if this is going to help or not but I recieved my summons
    3 months after he incident. This was about 10 years ago though and
    wasn't for speeding. I was riding my moped down a side street with no
    lights (The street not me) and hit an unlit car with my knee, much
    bleeding and mashing of organs ensued and off to hospital I did go,
    whereupon Mr plod said dont worry son everthings alright. 3 months
    later, bingo dangerous driving and �10 fine.
     

    
>    Seems stupid to me to place a camera between 2 different speed limit
>    zones. 
 
	There is no such thing as "between 2 different speed limit zones"
	you're either in one zone or the other - I would think the most likely 
	place to put them is the start of the lower limit - to catch those who 
	don't slow down.

	Heather

    What about time to slow down, or should we slam on the breaks when we
    see a lower speed limit. These limit signs start to appear after a
    large bridge; there is no way you will see them until or are actually
    in that area, in which case you are already speeding !
    
    Raj

	The theory is that when you see the new sign, if you're within the 
	old speed limit, you have time to slow down to the new.

	How much time do you need to slow down from 70 to 50? and does the 
	sign allow for this?

	I don't recall ever having problems slowing from one speed limit to 
	another before I passed the sign.....even from 60 to 30.

	Heather

>>	How much time do you need to slow down from 70 to 50? and does the 
>>	sign allow for this?
    
    In this case very little. The sign is situated around 100 yards past
    the bridge. Assuming you see the sign immedietly after the bridge, that
    only leaves you 100 yards to slow down. Assuming you were doing ~65 MPH
    before this I would find it difficult to slow down to the required
    speed without using the brakes.
    
    In most other circumatances I would agree with your statements.
    
    Raj (Who_never_exceeds_limit+20MPH)

    
>    In this case very little. The sign is situated around 100 yards past
>    the bridge. Assuming you see the sign immedietly after the bridge, that
>    only leaves you 100 yards to slow down. Assuming you were doing ~65 MPH
>    before this I would find it difficult to slow down to the required
>    speed without using the brakes.
 

	In that case, I'd get some acruate info on when you see the sign,
	distances etc., and if they do write to ypu, you'll have your
	"defence" prepared.   
    
	Heather

You *should* use the brakes to slow down to warn others behind you.

Dave.

    What?!!!  the HC states that stopping distance from 70 mph is 315 ft, 
    ie 105 yards. so if you can stop in that distance I guess losing 20 mph
    is no sweat!
    
    Huw. 

    >>What?!!!  the HC states that stopping distance from 70 mph is 315 ft, 
    >>ie 105 yards. so if you can stop in that distance I guess losing 20 mph
    >>is no sweat!
    
    I meant without using brakes !
    
    Raj

    I maybe losing the point here, but where does it say you should be able
    to slow down from speed XXmph to XXmph without using brakes in the
    distance between the first sighting of the new speed limit, and where
    the speed limit take effect?
    
    If this was the case there are thousands of drivers out there wrongly
    convicted of speeding.
    
    No, I think your defence is thin at the very least.  If however the new
    posted speed limit is obscured... *then* you may have a defense.  I
    still beleive it unlikely that you are going to get off with it.
    
    
    Bob

    oh well, worth a try; best get a good lawyer !
    
    Raj

    I thought the "off limits" speed was 60 and therefore as soon as the end 
    of Motorway sign appears the speed limit was automatically down to 60? 
    
    Then, at the next sign it goes to 50...
    
    I think you are on dodgy ground
    
    
    Xtine

    Re .55
    
    If the motorway ends, but remains dual carriageway then the speed limit
    remains 70 mph. On single carriageway the max speed would be 60.
    
    This is basic highway code (or did I miss your point).
    
    Royston

    Nope...
    
    I was under the misaprehension that even on a dual carriage way the max
    spped was 60 - I thought only motorways had a 70 limit...
    
    My point was that if the motorway had ended then drivers should already
    have slowed down some way, before the next speed limit sign...
    
    
    Xtine

>    I was under the misaprehension that even on a dual carriage way the max
>    spped was 60 - I thought only motorways had a 70 limit...
    
Dual carriageways have been 70 for a few years now....

    Time I reread the highway code...
    
    
    Xtine

re.59:

> Keywords:  F1

???

This highlights a common misconception. Next time your travelling down an A road 
behind a queue all doing 50MPH I'll be the driver at the front hasn't read the 
highway code for decades!

A roads are 60MPH, Dual carriageways are 70MPH. These were changed many many many 
years ago, so it's not something that's just sneaked in.

Richard

    .61 has it all wrong! the speed limit on A roads is 40 mph all those
    who  only doing 50 are speeding
    
    Have you noticed how beads on the drivers seat seem to increase the
    aerodynamic drag coeff dramatically? It  must have something to do
    with having the same curvature on the brim of flat hats and trilbies
          

    Just because I don't know the speed limit doesn't mean I'm hogging the
    road... just means I'm not breaking the law as badly as I think...
    
    
    xtine

    Unless otherwise specified (by speed limit signs) the 'standard speed
    limit' applies. This is also denoted by a white circle with a black
    diagonal line. On dual carriage ways and motorways the standard is
    currently 70mph, on ALL other roads it is 60mph for cars. These limits
    change for HGVs and I think cars towing trailers
    
    Andy

    Raj,
    
    How do you know your picture was taken? Was it daylight and is there
    always a flash?
    
    Peter
    

    >>How do you know your picture was taken? Was it daylight and is there
    >>always a flash?
    
    I was approx 10.30 pm, and I could tell by the flash of pure white
    light in my mirrors. There was another car behind me which I had
    overtaken, but I dont think it was him/her flashing me ! the light was
    too bright and short for that.
    
    Raj

    	You may be lucky & there may not have been any film loaded but if
    not, I doubt that you'd get off lightly for doing 80+ in a 50 zone,
    especially through a junction where the road also changes from 3 lane
    to 2 lane.

    My summons read: At 00.40 at the time and place mentioned above (M5
    Nothbound in a resricted 50 mph roadworks section) you were caught red
    handed doing 84.51 mph over a distance of 1.948 miles. 
    
    I thought, oh s**t there goes my license.
    
    My punishment: Fine 150 pounds + 20 pounds costs and no points - not
    bad eh.
    
    However it was pointed out to me that I was prosecuted for exceeding a
    temporary speed limit and not the mandatory speed limit of the road in
    question. Apparently this makes some difference although I cannot see
    any logical reason why it should.
    
    By the way as we are on the subject on speed cameras, if anyone intends
    to travel to the South West for a holiday this year via the A303 then
    be careful. On the Ilminster bypass there is definitely a speed camera.
    I can see the point in putting one on this road, it's well dangerous.
    It's a single carriageway but if you're careful you can get four cars
    side by side across its width. Trouble is nobody is careful/sensible
    and there are several major crashes each year. IMHO it's the people
    overtaking at the wrong time that should be prosecuted and not all
    speeding motorists per se. After all it's possible to drive that
    stretch of road at well over 100mph at the right time of day and I'm
    not going to tell you how I know that.
    
    
    Cheers 
    
    Andy.
    
    

re .68;

when they made the "recommended" speed limits mandatory at these road
works site, they made a mistake, so you do only get a fine and no points.

However, since you were doing over 70, I'm surpised you didn't get done for
that one - although it may be the temporary 50 overrides the standard 70.

Peter.

        .68>
        
        Re the A303 Ilminster bypass -- there is a whole topic on this:
        1091 "North Devon Speed Trap Warning".
        
        Why the hell don't they do something about this road?!! The
        evidence of this conference shows it's been a death trap for
        at least three years.
        
        Ian.

    I was done last year for sixty-something in a "temporary" 50 on the M1...
    
    I was told that had I exceeded 70 I would have got points... as it was
    I got a �60 + �20 costs...
    
    
    If I was going to drive my own car and had to apply for insurance would
    this be a conviction and need to be declared?
    
    Xtine

    re. 70 Thanks for the pointer to note 1091, I didn't occur to me that a
    road would have it's own note.
    
    re. 71 You don't have to declare the offence to an insurance company.
    You only have to declare endorsable offences but when I changed
    insurance company last october I did declare it just to be on the safe
    side but apparently they wern't interested.
    
    Cheers
    
    Andy.

The M40 turn off to N'hampton goes past a airfield.. RAF Croughton, or 
something like that, it's a fighter squadron. About 500 yards the M40 side of 
the airfield is a GATSO camera.

Swine.

    Not precisely sure where the N'hampton turn off is, but there are two
    bases in that area. The fighter base is RAF Upper Heyford (mainly
    houses F111s). 5 miles to the north of this is RAF Croughton which is a
    non-flying (Radar/Telecomms) base. Both bases are operated by the
    American Air Force.
    
    Steve
    

It's RAF Croughton. On the right as you drive away from the M40, just aftre a 
left hand bend.

I think the N'hampton turn off is fairly soon after the Oxford turn off, 10 
miles, perhaps.

Well,  here is another one to avoid...

The road from Wallingford to Oxford passes through a small village, 
it is a picturesque small place that you pass through quite quickly,
however the locals/police don't seem to appreciate people travelling
quickly, as there is a speed camera half way along the 30 mph zone.

They are massive boxes on poles,  I almost think that they want you
to notice them?

_Richard

BTW. I will update with place name when I have a look at a map!

    Nuneham Courtney?
    
    
    Spelling???
    
    
    Simon

re .74

The GATSO you are refering to is on the A43 between Northleach and the M40.
The base it is near is RAF Croughton (which can be distinguished by loads of 
satellite dishes, aerials, etc). Heading towards the M40 (heading south) the
camera is on the left-hand side of the road.

Good place for it. A year and a half ago, I was taken out by an articulated 
lorry which was speeding near this point.

Clive

Re: .77

Numeham Courtenay sounds right to me!

    Hi,
    
    I have a friend who has just been prosecuted for travelling at 101MPH
    on the M40. She was pictured from above, Police Helicopter.
    
    When she visited the Solicitor about this, he told her that the M40 was
    targeted by the local Police force, at least 5 cars travelling up and
    down from London to Oxford, Camera hidden behind overhead bridges and
    two helicopters.
    
    Apparently, they register your speed by the white squares on the
    motorways. 
    
    (She actually went to court last week - 6 points and 800 pounds fine)
    
    You are also quite right about Nuneham Courtenay, I live 6 miles from
    here and many people are being caught.
    
    Also, be careful at the Theale turn-off on the M4, there are
    speeding/light jumping cameras here.
    
    Next are cameras being installed on the A34 (between Oxford and
    Chilton), I am told that usually signs are up for around three months
    before the actual camera's are fitted.
    
    I notice the white squares appearing so helicopters may well be next.
    
    One of my relatives was caught speeding - took 3 weeks to get the 
    fine via PHH.
    
    Hope this helps - the M40 is one to watch out for...Camera's
    everywhere!
    
    Jon
    
            

    
    Oh great, I'm taking that this Thursday night.  Mind you, I shan't be
    doing over 100mph. Let's hope the police aren't bored, and stop me for
    doing 85.
    
    Julie.
    

    re: -2
    
    Are you confusing the traffic flow monitoring camera on the very high pole
    with speed trap cameras (normaly on short poles, approx 20 yards before
    the traffic lights) or have I missed something?
    
    Neil

    re: last
    
    I am reffering to the Theale exit on the M4
    
    Neil

    Approaching Henley from the Marlow direction (north of the river), I
    saw a big black and yellow "SPEED CAMERA" sign, about a mile or so out
    of town.  I was doing 0.0023591 mph in a traffic jam at the time....
    
    Richard
    

    re.84
    
    They've only put the signs up there so far, no boxes... yet.
    
    
    Jason.

    I saw a camera sign on the Caversham to Oxford road, it's situated
    about 100m after you enter the national speed limit zone as you exit
    the top of Caversham heading towards the Mapledurham turning.  Seems a 
    strange place for a camera, because I can't imagine many people would have
    accelerated to over 60 within 100m of leaving a 30mph limit but there
    again who knowns, unless it's to catch the people coming the opposite
    direction in which case speeds well over 60mph can quite easily be
    achieved as it's a long down hill straight.
    
    
    Neil

    Re: .37
    
    Just to let you know, its been around 8 weeks and I havn't received
    anything nasty in the post yet. I may have been lucky in this case but
    it certainly taught me a lessen ! 
    
    Raj

    
    There's also a new sign on the Henley road, just after the Sonning
    roundabout. It said in the Henley Standard a couple of weeks ago that
    the actual cameras would follow shortly. I would imagine that on this
    road they would be trying to catch people going too fast through the
    village half way to Henley (Upper Shiplake, Lower Binfield or
    something).
    
    Trevor

    Meridian News did a piece a couple of days ago about how the Thames
    Valley Police are using portable Gatso cameras all over the place
    without warning (well it could be just one that they keep moving). 
    There's no warning signs so the first you find out is the letter
    through the post and, according to the reporter, you can lose your
    license for being caught speeding 3 or 4 times in one day.  I found the
    reporting biased against the cameras but the final piece of advice was
    just don't speed !!
    
    tp

    I'm puzzled about the Theale exit on M4 reference: Gonig home last
    night exiting (from westbound) there were no indications signs or
    camera's on the sliproad or coming up the A4 from the Theale side. So
    where are these camera's?.
    
    The only one I saw was a trafic video camera on a very tall pole
    overlooking the motorway.
    
    Richard

re -1

>    The only one I saw was a trafic video camera on a very tall pole
>    overlooking the motorway.

I too checked this last night on my way home.

The camera is pointing down the slip road / towards the motorway when leaving
M4 west bound at J12. Its not on a very high pole. However, being on the
bridge, it is high above the M4. It is not pointing
towards the two sets of traffic lights on the roundabout. Therefore,
it seems more useful for monitoring traffic on the M4. 

	Dave

    Coming off the M40 at the A34 junction last Thursday, I saw that there
    was a nice  big yellow Speed Camera sign up. Couldn't see any in the
    obvious (i.e behind bridges, sign posts etc) places.
    
    Noticed nice Traffic Police people in Metallic-Rust colour Rover 600 on
    M40 Northboubound between Banbury and Warwick, btw.
    
    Andy

    
    Just as a matter of interest:
    
    Just south of the A57 on the M1 (southbound) there is a 50 limit through 
    roadworks.
    
    There's also a nice little grey box beside the road. I'm glad I was
    doing 50!
    
    You have been warned!

    I've been told there's a GATSO camera on the M25 between the M4 and M40
    junctions - somewhere in the roadworks I assume?
    
    Not had a chance to check myself - although I've been avoiding that
    stretch for obvious reasons. 
    
    Rupert

	As I was driving into Ilford on the A127, my attention was taken by
another drivers antics with the result that I missed the lights changing to
Amber and as I reached the other side of the junction, there was this big flash
behind me.

	I'm now waiting for an OOOOOH NASTY to drop through my letterbox, I
wasn't exactly glued to the 40MPH limit at that time either.  Anyone any idea
how long these OOOOOH NASTIES take to arrive?

				Malcolm. 8-((( (again)

    
    I was once charged with a driving offence (unjustly I might add), I was
    informed by PC plod that I wouldn't be done, 3 months later the summons 
    dropped on the door mat. 
    A looooooooooooooooong and nasty wait.
    

Malcolm,

	was there anyone behind you ? because the camera should have only taken
your snapshot if you cross on red, and it sounds like another car may have been 
the real culprit.

	>> Anyone any idea how long these OOOOOH NASTIES take to arrive?

	About two weeks I've heard, but if thats not right I may be due one from
a close call in London the other month !

    Are there any on the M40 - particularily the stretch between M42 and
    Oxford ?
    I was a bit late for a meeting the other day and was travelling at
    [DELETED ON THE GROUNDS OF SELF-INCRIMINATION] going south, all I saw was an
    unmarked Rover 800 on the hard shoulder, but I was OK at that time.  I
    didn't notice any cameras on bridges ar anyfink.
    
    	Stevie.

  I don't think there are any on the M40, they just use helo's there!

  The GATSO on the M25 between the M4 and the M40 is on the central 
reservation, opposite where the recovery lorries park on the left, 	
about 3/4 of the way up going North.  At the moment, only the lane 
to the right of it is in view and I've no idea if it's active.

  Re the long wait for a summons, from what I recall hearing from a 
  policeman, you need to be advised within a few weeks.  I'd have thought 
  that being told that no furthur action was being taken then getting
  summonsed was worth trying to see if anything could be done...

I must addmit, it would be very difficult to remember who was driving my car at
the time....

    
    Unfortunately, it's up to you to prove that it wasn't you, *not* them
    to prove it was.
    
    Nigel
    

 Could probably work the reasonable/unreasonable theory on them !!

	With a bit of luck !

    
    under the circumstances saying 3 months is too long to remember who
    was driving wouldn't have worked with me, as it was, I was riding a
    moped, it was raining cats & dogs and I hit an unlit car, on an unlit
    road, the street light was broken and he was parked on double yellows,
    my knee hit the rear wing (Ouch) . The police said no charges would be made
    against me as the circumstances were iffy. I got a 20 quid fine for
    undue care & attention.
                                     

>>>Malcolm,

>>>	was there anyone behind you ? because the camera should have only taken
>>>your snapshot if you cross on red, and it sounds like another car may have been 
>>>the real culprit.


	I only remember that the lights were still on amber when they disappeared
out of the corner of my eye.

	What happened was that the fella in the lane beside obviously saw the
lights change a fraction before me and my attention was then taken by the fact
that his rear end was virtually off the road (braking), at which point I realised
why - but it was too late for me to stop!

				Malcolm.

    
    Can anyone suggest a good stretch of road in Berkshire without a speed
    camera or regular police traffic on which I can push my car a little.
    I don't like to push it on motorways as there always seems to be one or
    both of the above.
    
    
    Andy  0 :-)
    
    

	The A4 to Reading to Newbury has its moments, but watch out for Deer, 
although its not the road for high speed travelling, but some of the bends are 
wonderfull at about 90.

    re 2 back I think.
    
    If you crossed the stop line when the light was amber then it wern't
    you who triggered the camera. I was told that the lights have to have
    changed to red for a period of time before it will trigger. In other
    words you have to gave intentionally driven through a red light to
    trigger it. I have definatlly crossed the line on amber and seen a
    flash when I was across the other side of the junction, Looked around
    and there was someone behind me. I never saw anything for that.
    
    Fingers crossed
     

    Back in my Munich days I used to flash my headlights when someone went 
    screaming through on red and I was behind them (slowing down!) or first
    in the queue waiting for the light to turn green. It used to amuse me
    no end when the offender thought that they had been caught.
    
    Here I've come to the conclusion that living in the south of France
    makes you colour blind red/orange/green they all look alike! Same for
    black and white - I don't know whey they waste their time painting the 
    white lines in the middle of the road.

    re: .105,
         try the A33 bypass from J11 to swallowfield after 20:00 on a
    Saturday. If your there this week-end you may well see me "testing" the
    stability of the ZZR1100...
    
     Re: the others.
        I have a friend who was photo'd in Morde(A3) last August and his
    "pay and obey" came thru just after christmas, but then his case
    probably had to go to the S first as he now has to attend court.
    
    Alan.

    re. .105
    
    There isn't anywhere on the public roads to "push it". I used to own a
    Honda RC30 (which won't mean anything to you - but it's race bike with
    headlights) and I came to the conclusion that I'd end up killing myself
    "pushing it". Modern sports Bikes and Cars (to an extent) are only
    tested properly on the track. If you can't get access to a track, then
    resign yourself to Advanced Driving Courses for your kicks (yawn).
    
    Rupert

    
    RE-1 
    
    RC30(Which won't mean anything to you)
    
    So the 122 BHP V4 won't mean mean anything to me.   ;-)
    
    I had about 5 posters of the VFR 750-R (RC30) on my wall when I was
    younger,dreaming of the day that i'd have to choose between taking the
    OWO1 or the RC for a scream down a dual carriageway.
    
    Sadly i'm a tin-top man/boy now,but it doesn't hurt to dream.
    
    
    Andy..

    
    RE.108.
    
    (I forgot to mention this in my last note)
    
    
    How about taking a SLR camera flash with you (one that allows you to
    test the flash),and when a car goes past you on the motorway
    (preferably when you've just gone under a bridge)trigger the test,and
    wait for those brake lights!!!!
    
    
    HA HA HA !!!!
    
    Andy.
    

    RE: .105 & .109
    
    Continuing on from a previous notes topic concerning "bad" driving and 
    writing a letter to the the top person in a company telling him/her that
    their employees have been spotted...
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear MR. Digital UK country manager,
    
    This is to inform you that at least 2 of your employees have "openly"
    (See CARS_UK notes conference notes 1948.105 & .109) admitted that they
    will attempt to break the law concerning the driving of "their" cars!
    If such actions are to be attempted it is not something that should be
    publicly announced! In addition, if the notes in question were "leaked"
    and shown to members of the local police force and/or press whis would
    reflect extremely badly on the company as a whole as it could be seen
    as "encouraging" such behaviour.
    
    Regards,
    
    Anon
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    :-) :-) 
    
    I wouldn't personally do the above but I could imagine that some folks
    could get upset...

    RE.105,113.
    
    What I meant by "push it" was to participate in my hobby of car
    pushing,why there's nothing more exciting on a sunday than jumping out
    of my car on a quiet stretch of road and "Pushing it" for a mile or
    two.
    
    
    The only reason I choose a Corsa is because of the rounded back,which
    fits nicely into the cupped palm of my hand.
    
    
    Why what did you think I meant???
    
    
    Andy ;-)

Folks


     Will the speed cameras only work in the direction they are pointing, or can 
they pick up the oncoming traffic as well ?

ie they will photograph the back of the car, but can they also do the front ?

    I am told that they only photograph the back of the car. If you think
    about it that's fairly logical as not all vehicles have plates on the
    front (ie. motorbikes). However, someone else may know different.
    
    Andy
    

    Funny think happened on the A1 from Scotland last week. A camera facing
    me flashed as I drove towards it, no other cars around, and I wasn't
    speeding.
    
    I wonder if they 'randomly' flash just to keep people on their toes.
    Must be cheaper than using film up, just install a fake camera with
    random flash unit ;^)
    
    Greg

Yesterday on the way home on the A406 , we were at a set of red lights that are
guarded by a camera. Nobody crossed the line, infact nothing happened but the
camera still flashed. Maybe a fly went past at over 60 mph.

    The police in Bristol recently announced that they were activating the
    camera on the A38 through Filton.  Next thing you know, the windows on
    the box are spray-painted black....
    
    Richard
    

    The newly installed cameras in Wokingham and Sandhurst are slowly being
    covered by the greenery from hedgerows .... Now where did I put my
    honeysuckle seeds? :-)
    

    
    Actually, a fingerful of vaseline would serve just as well - blur the
    image, I mean (shut up, you lot).  Photograpers use a clear filter
    smeared with vaseline for blurry, soft-focus effects.  Enough vaseline
    and the image should become too soft-focus to be useable.
    
    Not that I'm suggesting that anyone should....8^)
    
    Richard
    

    RE: .115
    
    In Germany they have speed cameras face on because from what I
    understand they also want to get the drivers face as well to help prove
    who was driving.
    
    Dave

So what sort of distance are you from the camera when the picture would be 
taken ?

ie:  leass than 50 feet, more than 50 feet, but less than 100, etc ?

    Depends on the shutter speed...
    
    {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{888888888888888888888888888^)
    
    Richard
    

	...where are the Wokingham and Sandhurst cameras located?

	Dave

    There are one on each side of the road just south of the Two Poplars
    on the Finchampstead Road (south of Wokingham).
    
    There is one camera facing east as you head towards Camberley from
    Sandhurst (near to the pedestrian crossing).
    
    Barry.

How does one reach up to the cameras anyway?  All this talk of black paint and
vasaline!

				Malcolm.

    Well, the one in Filton is on the centre reservation of the dual
    carriageway, at about head height, so I don't think it would be too
    difficult to reach.  Anyway, haven't you heard of the Leaping
    Evangelical Fly Poster? 8^)
    
    Richard
    

    
    re .123
    
    >In Germany they have speed cameras face on because from what I
    >understand they also want to get the drivers face as well to help prove
    >who was driving.
    
    In Brussles the cameras photograph the rear of the car.
    
    Reason (I was told this buy a colleague who's wife works in the
    justice ministry)....
    
    Apparently there were some embarrasing diplomatic incidents when
    important personages were photographed with 'compromising' passengers
    in the car. So the cameras were changed to photograph the rear of the
    vehicle instead.
    
    
    Gav.

<How does one reach up to the cameras anyway?  All this talk of black paint and
<vasaline!
    
    Paint gun ?
    
    -Dave.
    
    

    Where do you plug it in ??

    
    A few weeks back speed cameras were being discussed in the local Pub. 
    One of our friends is a Police driving instructor amongst other things,
    and was involved in studying the systems used in other countries.
     It seems the German (or it may have Italian) police tested a system
    using little grey trailers containing a GATSO affair. These were towed
    to the required place, unhitched, calibrated and left to be collected
    later when the film had run out.....
    
    ...Great, until the truck Drivers found out what they were !!! Down the
    outside lane, a little twitch of the steering wheel and there goes a
    very expensive piece of equipment - and as it was facing the wrong way
    it would never even get a picture of the truck that did it.
    
    Graham
     

    Chaps,
    
    The one I saw in France faced the front. It was also a mobile system
    with a flicmobile about 50 yards further down the road, presumably to
    stop the fly poster sprayers, etc.
    
    It was good fun watching the panic braking AFTER the flash
    
    Peter

    Of course it's not inconceivable that one of these things could cause an
    accident.  As I recall, the definition of a hazard is anything that
    causes a driver to change speed and/or direction.
    
    This also applies to police cars doing 65 mph in the inside lane.
    
    Richard
    

       In another place, I've seen a number of reports of GATSO's going off
    without any vehicle being in a position to set them off.  Also, they
    can be set to take face on pictures but as was mentioned earlier, bikes
    don't have front number-plates & thus they don't use them in that mode
    over here.

    < Where do you plug it in ??
    
    When I said 'paint gun' I meant the guns they use in shoot outs
    in the woods....or is that 'paint balling' ?  
    
    -Dave.
    

    I didn't understand either.  I think "paint-ball gun" would best have
    got the meaning across.
    
    What a good idea, though.  You wouldn't even have to slow down...
    
    Dead-Eye Dick
    

    re paint gun.
    
    I missed the smiley - I had visions of a car driving up - getting all
     the paint stuff out - running to the nearest house with the power
      lead, or extension cable  - 
      "Excuse me, could I plug this in ?? ... "  :-)
    
    

    I  think you will find the reason they take pictures from behind is due
    to the difficulties in over powering your car headlights with a flash
    gun. The red rear lights do not pose such a problem. Interesting
    thought a radar detector in your car which turns on a high power strobe
    at the rear just before you pass a speed camera.....:-)
    				Brian.

    re .140
    
    I doubt its the headlights. You dont need to overpower the headlights.
    The only problem the headlights could cause would be from random
    reflections off the internal parts of the camera (and more likely the
    glass weathershield). The exposure meter would be preset and wouldn't
    be affected by the lights. In any case a flash gun produces a much more
    powerful light than headlights and the camera would also be outside the
    main part of the headlight beam.
    
    You wouldn't need a radar detector to trigger your strobe. A simple
    flash slave device would detect the flash itself, and would be able to
    set your strobe off. You would, however, need a VERY powerful flash.
    Pity the poor driver behind you ! (I can just see it now -- "Honest,
    officer. I just happened to leave all my 20 extra-powerful flash guns
    turned on, with slave units connected, on my parcel shelf" ...)
    
    I suspect the camera flash directly into the drivers eyes would be a
    serious problem (Instant punishment - you speed, you get the flash, you
    are blinded, you crash !)
    
    Andrew

    ...you crash!
    
    ...into the camera!  Yes!  That's the solution!
    
    Richard (who's just back from the pub....)
    

    You wouldn't need a really powerful flash, just one pointed directly at
    the number plate itself to grossly over-expose the camera shot and
    bleach out the number plate. Pointed at the number plate wouldn't dazzle 
    drivers behind either.
    
    Wait a minute - why haven't I tried this.....
    
    Pete

    
    Or just do what a lot of people seem to be doing these days :-
    
     Hang a couple of bikes of the back - covers everything, lights,
      number plate, the lot.
    
    Yes I know it's against the law .... but probably would get a ticking
    off rather than a speeding fine.

    re .143
    
    Number plates are specially made to relect most of the light falling on
    them back towards the source of the light.  You would have to position
    the flashgun so it was at nearly the same angle to the number plate as
    the camera. If you take a flash picture of a car you can get the number
    plate nicely exposed even when the rest of the car is grossly
    underexposed.
    
    If you could get the old fashioned number plates (white letters on
    black background) then you might find that the camera would always
    underexpose the picture of the plate at night, as the flash is probably
    preset for a standard number plate.
    
    Andrew

    Heard on the radio.
    
    At junction 21A on the M1 the Government is trialing a real time
    capture of number plates system. A TV camera "reads" the number plate
    and displays the registration number and the speed on an illuminated
    sign in the central reservation. The info is being passed to the police
    for information but is not presently admissable as evidence.
    This was tested last year in Kent where the effects on speeds were said
    to be dramatic. Whether there would be a long term effect unless
    prosecutions followed is IMHO doubtful.
    
    Andrew

    Maybe there should be one on the Grangemouth road which flashes up a
    sign to cars travelling below the speed limit saying:
    
    "The driver of xxxxx is a doddering old git who should 
    either speed up or sell his car and take the bus"
    
    	;-)

I wonder how long it'll be before some bunch of nutters will start a
competition to see who can get the highest speed displayed on the
sign (as long as it continues to be inadmissable evidence, anyway)

Chris.

    
    Yeah, maybe we could get them ro arrange that it displays:
    
    	a: your reg. & speed
        b: your ranking position
        c: say the top 10 speeds & their "owners"
    
    this would make the sign much more interesting & most drivers would
    slow down to read it! 8-)
    
    JBG

        I don't remember any mention of being it being inadmissable on
        News At Ten last night. They reported that if your registration
        appears on the display you'll have a fixed penalty ticket in
        the post.  The details are passed to the Police for use in
        evidence should you decide to contest the fine.
        
        Ian.

    The system on the M1 is not yet generating tickets - just on test. When
    (and if) they do get it live, I hope they up the tolerances, 1 car reg
    came up showing 51 mph last night in a 50 limit. I would be very
    unamused to get a ticket for 1 mph over the limit.
    
    Paul

    51 in a 50 is illegal, period.  Can't say I'd be too chuffed if the
    designers of nuclear power stations were as blas� about a 2% error of
    judgement.
    
    
    Nev.

    That is assuming that your speedo SAYS you are doing 51. Unless you
    have a 100% accurate digital speedo there is a couple of percent margin
    for error at least.
    
    Paul

    You are allowed 10% speedo error. The cameras are set to allow 10% + 3
    Therefore on a motorway the max speed before being 'done' is;
    
    	70+10%	= 77     }
    	77 + 3  = 80 Mph } for the arithmetically challenged
    
    I have heard rumours that the cameras are between 5% and 10% accurate.
    
    Simon

Outside the work entrance to The Crescent, they are testing a numberplate
reader, presumably for a project, where Digital is a supplier for the
Department of Transport.

Put in a good word, and I'm sure they will code an exception for your
numberplate!

Mark.

    Speedo error as a topic is a great generator of misunderstandings. 
    Basically, a speedo is a device to tell you how fast you are going.  If
    you are going faster than you should because of a speedo error, you are
    still breaking the law.
    
    Speedos are permitted a margin of over-read error.  If it says 75 when
    you're doing 68, that's okay.  But they may not under-read AT ALL.  If
    you're doing 75 and the speedo says 68, then you and the speedo both
    are in breach of the law.
    
    The reason you don't get done for 71 in a 70 zone is because it's too
    small an infraction for the police to waste their time on.
    
    Richard
    

    RE: .155
    
>>Outside the work entrance to The Crescent, they are testing a numberplate
>>reader, presumably for a project, where Digital is a supplier for the
>>Department of Transport.
    
    On Sky News I thought I saw a familiar looking keyboard.
    
    Mind you I wonder how the system will handle frigged around number
    plates?
    
    Dave

Re.157
    
    >>>Mind you I wonder how the system will handle frigged around number
    >>>plates?
    
 
	With a fine I shouldn't wonder!

				Malcolm.

    .157
    
    You're also unlike to be done for 71 in a 70 as most speed measuring
    equipment/methods are not capable of that level of accuracy

Re: .159

Oh, i don't know. When i was nicked 4� years ago, the nice Policeman
informed me that the Vascar used to catch me was accurate to 10 inches
in a mile, which implies only a 0.016% error. Not bad for a guy with
a stopwatch hey!

mb

p.s. ... and i have always wondered why there was a 17mph difference
between what my speedo said that i was doing, and what plod did.

    Re: accuracy of 10 ins in a mile
    
    Their measuring instrumnet may be that accurate, but I doubt the
    operators are, by a long chalk.
    
    I understand that with Vascar they have to register when the target car
    passes the start point and end point of the measured distance.
    
    Let's suppose the target's doing 60 mph -- that's 88 ft/sec. so there's
    9.6 inches of error per 1/100th of a second they're out.  Now add on
    the error due to parallax....

    Oops,
    
    i forgot the smileys ;-)
    
    You don't really think that i believed plod?
    
    But i didn't argue with him at the time though!!!!
    

    ... but if the equipment is not accurate to 1mph, then how come
    the summons has my speed to 2 decimal digits (whilst less than 100mph)?
    
    mb

    The equipment is most likely accurate to 2 decimal digits -- it's the
    mental agility of the user in hitting the buttons that's at issue.

�    ... but if the equipment is not accurate to 1mph, then how come
�    the summons has my speed to 2 decimal digits (whilst less than 100mph)?
        
        ...because there's a difference between accuracy and precision!
        
        Ian.

    I was "hit" by VASCAR about 7 years ago. They said I was doing 103mph.
    It was total bollocks of course, but there was no arguing with either
    them or the magistrate. My solicitor told me to plead guilty, it was
    pointless to fight it, but I stated in court that despite a guilty
    plea, I disputed the speed reported. In fact, as I reported in this
    conference years ago, I was doing about 80mph and the car in front
    *was* going considerably faster. Since then, I have no longer trusted
    policemen the way Mummy and Daddy told me I could and should.
    
    At least I didn't get banned.
    
    Laurie.

... its at times like this when i would _love_ to have a calibrated
tachograph in the car, and after Plod has given me the obligatory
talking down to, take it all the way to court and PROVE that the
speed _they_ said i was doing was not the actual speed according
to an approved measurement system.

Come to think of it, didn't Top Gear (about a year and a half ago)
report on a lorry who was nicked for 80mph - until they got out the
tacho AND pointed out that the vehicle has a speed limiter fitted!

mb

    Ref a couple back...
    
    Yeah, I was also pulled up and told I was doing 95-99mph, 
    which I challenged since I knew I hadn't gone over 85-90mph. 
    In true plod style he replied, "well in fact it we thought 
    you were doing over 100mph, sir...". In other words, 3 points 
    or risk a ban - your choice. No contest - I'll take the 
    points.
    
    Next thing they'll be planting crack on you and saying "take 
    the 3 points sir, less painful than 10 years in Isle of Wight 
    for Drug Trafficking".
    
    Rupert
    
     

    Idle curiosity...
    I passed the Emmer Green detection camera this morning at 30 mph. While
    doing so, I was overtaken by a red Vitesse (Fujitsu/ICL sticker in the
    back!) doing 45-ish in this 30 mph zone. Since then I've been wondering
    a) is the field of view of the camera large enough to ensure that both
    cars were filmed? and b) how does the camera isolate which of the two
    cars in view was doing over the limit? 
    cheers                             
    DaveT

    You'll soon find out ;-).
    
    Cheers,
    Dan!

    
    re:.169
    
    Presumably there are the graded lines down the side of the road that
    they've started using on most speed camera points.  This should show
    the Rover hacking it away whilst you'll be well within the limits.
    
    Chris.

It's my guess, based on no evidence, that they would always assume that the
vehicle to the right is going faster.  Of course, that would provide an
interesting defence, in the absence of two photos proving otherwise ... which
presumably explains why there are always two photos ... or at least so I am lead
to believe.

Tony, who's not about to try it to find out!

    
    Saw a gatso just off the M40 on the Newbury-bound A34 this afternoon - 
    not sure if it's new or whether I've just not noticed it before.  It's
    just before the first junction after the parking area.
    
    Chris.

    We saw the said Gatso flashing ! We were driving the other way at the
    time :-)
    
    tmp

    I think it was the back of my UK-reg car that was photographed on the
    A2 near Utrecht a few weeks ago - or it could have been the guy in the
    lane next to me.  We were both going a little faster than prudent (aka
    the limit).
    
    Have the Dutch police followed up this type of event with any of our UK
    readers?  Or do you think I might get away with it?
    
    Incidentally, between them, Hertz Leasing and Leaseplan did the honours
    with the necessary paperwork in record time and no cost.  They also got
    my tax disk to me before it expired.
    
    Nick

    
    Happened to me in Holland as well, the police were cheating by 
    hiding in a gap of the central reservation. 
    I was doing about 120mph at the time and had no come back, so I
    guess your get away with it,
    
    Mark.

    I drove on British plates for many years in Holland, and they never
    seemed to follow up speeding and parking transgressions, probably on
    the belief that I was a visitor.
    DaveT

    Same here, but I left Holland 6 years ago.
    
    Laurie.

    Seems like the most appropriate topic...
    
    New (well I hadn't spotted them before) speed cameras in Hartland Road,
    Reading. That's the right turn off the A33 on the way into town from
    DEC Park if you're heading for the sports centre.
    
    I've always thought that if I was a policeman with a radar gun that
    Hartland Road would be a good hunting ground, since although
    Northumberland Avenue feels like it deserves 30mph, as soon as I turn
    into Hartland Road I immediately speed up. Well I used to :-)
    
    Graham

    
    	They don't seem to be calibrated yet (no white lines on the
    	road and pointing at a satellite).
    

    I always believed that Gatsos only took your picture from behind but on
    Wednesday evening I was photographed while approaching the Gatso on the
    Finchampstead Road in Wokingham going south. They have recently changed 
    this from a 40 to a 30 limit.
    
    I was the only motorist about at the time. Have they changed the way
    these things work?
    
    FYI, Wokingham is the Gatso Company dream....there must be at least 16
    cameras dotted around the place (not all with film in them though). The
    local people have been spray painting them, smashing them with sledge
    hammers....one was even pulled to the ground by a tow-rope. Its easy to
    understand as many of the cameras are not in accident blackspots,
    troublesome junctions or schools. 
    
    Cheers,
    Barry.         

Did you get flashed once or twice?

I understand some GATSO's are dummies and only flash once, giving yo the 
impression that you've been caught. Apparently they need 2 pictures to prove you 
were moving (or something like that anyway)

Here in Germany, all cameras flash from in front of you :-((

Craig.

    It only flashed once.....I went the same route later that evening and
    the same thing happened...one flash.
    
    I'm not worried about a ticket as I was on a bike.... :)

    >> Did you get flashed once or twice?
    
    Cool, is that the way to really know wether you've been done or not?
    

     Barry,
    
    I got flashed once from exactly the same camera in Wokingham 2 weeks
    ago. So far no letter through the post.
    
    I thought that a flash in front of you was dangerous at night because
    of the dazzle effect it could have.
    
    Oh well should have had my radar detector switched on?
    
    
    ...Simon 

    >I thought that a flash in front of you was dangerous at night because
    >of the dazzle effect it could have.
    
    So is exceeding the speed limit :-)
    
    tmp

RE .			I went the same route later that evening and
    the same thing happened...one flash.
    

Slow learning process or just a total disregard to the law :-)


Simon

    GATSO's are not considered by the police to be entirely fool proof
    based on the speed they equate to your car. If you look on the road as
    you pass a Gatso - after you get passed it - there are markings on the
    road. These are used by the police to confirm your speed. They look at
    the different position of the car between the two photos ( 0.2 second I
    think ) and work out how fast your car is actually travelling before
    they move for prosecution.
    
    These markings are only present after youve passed the GATSO - please
    bear in mind that GATSO's can be turned round - if it flashed you as
    you came towards it - it is actually checking for traffic going in the
    opposite direction - GATSO can not be used for some reason for
    oncomming traffic !! So - no road markings on the road where you where
    when the flash went off - then your home free. When the Gatso boxes are
    placed by the road without markings they are used for traffic offences
    such as red light jumping etc.
    
    GATSO's use a laser to calculate speed and are detectable by most
    detectors from a range of about 300 yards ( they are on mine anyway )
    this should be enough to slow down - either way, if I see the sign I
    slow down. The police are good enough to give you a warning - why
    ignore it !!
    
    They have to flash twice though - but since the photos are so close
    together it may look like only one flash has gone off and it can take
    upto three months for the police to start prosecution so dont hold your
    breath yet !!
    
    i got most of this info from a copy of CAR magazine from several months
    ago and also from a friend who happens to be in the police driving
    pursuit cars on the M6.
    
    Rick Barrett
                           
    

    I was flashed there, too.  As far as I could tell, the camera wasn't
    turned round.  It was the camera on the other side of the road that
    used to look at traffic going the other direction that started to take
    interest in oncoming traffic ?!
    
    I'm glad to hear that the change from 40 to 30 was only recent as I was
    beginning to doubt my memory (too much mercury in them fish, I am
    told).  Maybe the flash is in there to draw people's attention to the
    new limit - it certainly drew mine.
    
    Karel.