Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Sainsburys in Basingstoke
    
    4 star 43.9p per litre ( �1.99/gallon)
    Unleaded is about 42p per litre
    
    Who says there's no North/South divide? 8-]
    
    Steve.
    

    Sainsburys in Hedge End (Southampton) where I buy my petrol (unleaded),
    the cost is 40.3p/litre (�1.83).
    
    I've heard that cheaper brand petrol is not always suitable for cars
    with catalytic converters as it causes 'that smell'.
    

    
    THe Shell garage on the Worting Road in Basingstoke (the road to
    Whitchurch) has unleaded for 41.1p/litre (not priced /gall on the sign)
    
    But then this morning's news said that Esso had put their price up by
    4p per gallon and the other majors were expected to follow suit !!
    
    Dave

Tesco's at Chineham has unleaded at 40.something p per litre.


Ian

    
    I've just been to Sainsbury's at Hatch Warren (B'stoke), and the price
    for unleaded shown on their large sign is 40.3 p/litre
    
    Prices these days seem to be related to yo-yo's :-)
    
    Dave

>>    Prices these days seem to be related to yo-yo's :-)
    
    Having heard of price cut in the past week, this morning stated
    that it will all go up again over the next week - about 4p/gallon rise.
    
    This is supposedly caused by a price increase in the cost of the fuel
    oil, plus a change in the pound/dollar exchange rate...
    
    J.R.

Re: .2

>    I've heard that cheaper brand petrol is not always suitable for cars
>    with catalytic converters as it causes 'that smell'.
    
The smell depends on the sulfur content of the fuel.  In my experience
there is no correlation between fuel price and sulfur content; neither is
there a correlation between supplier and sulfur content. 

The problem is that the sulfur content varies all the time.  I don't know
whether or not BS4040 (the British Standard for petrol) specifies a maximum
sulfur content.

The oil companies say the car makers should put nickel in the catalytic
converter (this prevents H2S being formed, but Germany does not allow its
use) while the car makers say the oil companies should sell low sulfur
fuels. 

jb

    Re .6
    
    >>This is supposedly caused by a price increase in the cost of the fuel
    >>oil, plus a change in the pound/dollar exchange rate...
    
    ... or how painful the "cosy cartel" are finding the recent cuts ...
    
    
    Graham Warnes

    Is anyone loyal to a praticular supplier, for any reason other than
    price? This question springs to mind after recent advertising campaigns
    from Shell and Esso which claim to do Extremely Nice Things to your
    engine.
    
    Dougie
    

	Driving to work from my old house, I got into the habit of using ESSO.
	One time I put SHELL in the Marlin and it ran like a pig until I put
	ESSO in the next time - apparently a bad batch.  I still try to time
	my visits to the garage so that I get ESSO.  This may be personal bias,
	but I'm sticking with what works...

	Dave

    I have visited my local Sainsburys again. The price of Unleaded has
    gone up slightly owing to the recent price increases, and it is now
    
    			40.3p/litre
    
    which I think is still the cheapest price around.
    
    			Graham

I recently started using JET petrol, 5p per litre cheaper than the Shell
station opposite.  Did this for a couple of tank fulls of normal (by my
standards) driving and found that my mpg had gone down from 35 to 30 mpg!!
Returned to the Shell fuel that I normally use and petrol consumption has 
return to 35 mpg.

The difference in mpg means that it costs me �2.35 MORE to fill the tank with
cheaper petrol!!

What a personal disaster!!

Mike

    
    I thought I must be imagining it, but I went the other way.
    
    No name cheapy petrol (nothing as flash as JET!) to Shell (for the
    cars! :^)). I now don't fill up as often as I did, I usually get 1
    extra trip (30 miles) from a tank! The journey hasn't changed, the 
    car's not been changed, but the petrol has.
    
    I doubt I'll go back to cheap petrol now, it's a false economy.
    
    Mark

    re.12
    I was sorry to read about recent personal loss - �2.35!!!!
    Might I suggest you send a copy of this note to Viz - you might win the 
    five quid they offer for best "Top Tip", and hence end the week with a
    net gain of �2.65
    Mind, the way your luck is going this week you probably wouldn't win,
    then you'd be the cost of a first class stamp down as well. Life eh?
    Al.

    I found my mileage dropped when I used cheap petrol here in Brussels. I
    must admit, I did wonder at the time...
    
    Laurie.

    I've always used the cheapest petrol I can find and recently my mpg
    has dropped from 37 mpg to 32.5.
    
    I think I'll start using Shell and see if it makes a difference.
    
    Roy

Shell, more miles? You've got a be kiddin'. Mind you if you don't pay for the
engine rebuilds that I suppose it does not matter.

As for Jet, their petrol is sourced from a number of suppliers, so you should
get variable results. I get 40+mpg on JET (2.0i).

Dave.

    
    Re .17
    
    Engine rebuilds? 
    
    Come on Dave this is NEARLY 1993, not '83! :^)
    
    Mark

    	re last 2>
    
    	I'm with Dave on this one. As someone whose (personal) Vauxhall
    	Cavalier had its engine ruined by Shell, I'll never use it again.
    
    	Ian.

    
    I know there WAS a problem with Shell petrol long ago, but are you two
    saying there is still a problem? Or are you just steering clear because
    of a problem they used to have?
    
    I can understand you not using it if you've had an engine damaged in the 
    past, I'd feel the same, but I'd be interested to know if this is a
    historical thing or something which is currently a known problem.
    
    Mark

    As Mark says, Shell withdrew "Formula Shell" many moons ago.
    
    Roy

        I am quite sure that Shell no longer produce fuel that wrecks
        engines. However, their attitude in both refusing to admit the
        problem until the weight of evidence forced them to, and then
        their refusal to accept liability was, IMHO, deplorable.

	Having been one of their victims, I now chose not give them my
        custom. 

        Ian.

I feel the same way because of the way that Shell covered up the problems with
"Formula Shell" - even though my car was never damaged (2 star VW combi's are
indestructible). 

The manufacturer's who suffered the most were Opel/Vauxhal and VW - due to the
nature of the alloys that they use in their cars.

    
    
    It may be somewhat different here in Scotland, most of the cheap petrol 
    is sold by Super Market chains i.e. Asda, Safeways,
    Sainsbury's/Savacentre. These places usually have a reasonably well
    know supplier/Oil company.
    
    
    Recently the prices have been:-
    
    43.9p/litre for Jet Unleaded at Sainsbury's/Savacentre.
    
    43.9p/litre for Esso Super unleaded at Safeways.
    
    45.9p/Litre for Esso Super unleaded at Asda.
    
    
    Some other roadside garages selling Burmah and Gulf get close to these
    prices, but they usually about a penny/litre dearer.
    
    
    I'm currently getting around 29-35 mpg from a 2.0i running on petrol
    from these sources(Super Unleaded).
    
    Can't say I've seen a marked difference between the level of
    consumption on differnt brands, I usually put it down to having a
    heavier right foot occasionally.
    
    
    					Alan.
    
    
    

    
    About a week and a half ago, some of the petrol producers put their
    prices down by between 12 and 18 pence per gallon (BP is the only one
    which springs to mind.)
    
    Whilst driving around, I've seen no significant price decrease at any
    garages I've driven past.
    
    Has anyone seen the consequences of this price decrease at the pumps?
    If so, where?
    
    Steve.
    
    

re.22:

What 'e said plus I've never found that car runs well on it. My car likes cheap
unleaded.

Dave.

I also tried JET , just after the price fall , and I have now gone back to
shell . I got 5 mpg less using JET .


                           KR

    .27�shell . I got 5 mpg less using JET .
    
    JET-A1 ?

    As I asked earlier, has anyone noticed any problems with cheap diesel,
    especially in terms of fuel consumption?
    
    Laurie.

    re: A few back.
    
    I too have notice that the petrol suppliers have not reduce their
    prices, if any thing BP has gone up by .2 of a penny. What I want to
    know is what is the hold up in reducing the prices, it doesn't take
    2+ weeks to change the prices, they prove that then they increase the
    prices on budget day by 6pm that day!!!.
    
    
    Neil

    I use the Asda down the road. It's cheap, but it's always a BP tanker
    that arrives to refill the garage.
    
    Huw.

    
    Re .30
    
    I agree about prices not reacting swiftly at the moment, but to be fair
    law states that tax must be increased immediately, the price change
    isn't covered in the same way.
    
    Remember petrol would be dirt cheap without all the excise charged on
    it!
    
    Mark

    .29� As I asked earlier, has anyone noticed any problems with cheap diesel,
    
      I've not heard of any problems with diesel, only petrol...

    Do all you people really measure your mpg religously on every refill ?
    
    I just fill up where ever is cheepest or if i need it now which ever brand
    is handiest. I've know idea what mpg i get but with a 3 litre its low
    whatever the brand.
    
    PC

	I don't measure religously, I just know how many miles I should get to a 
	tank.  Thus, if I get less, I want to know why.   Usually, it's a lot 
	of town driving or a lead right foot.

	Dave

    
    Like Dave,
    
    I rarely bother checking my fuel consumption, I just noticed I was
    filling up later and later each week (on the cheap stuff a tank lasted
    exactly a week, typically).
    
    Mark

    I don't check specifically either, but I do reset the trip each time I
    *fill* up. I know what to expect from a tank, and I too want to know
    why if it drops significantly. I like to keep on top of things, and
    since my Escort is serviced (by me) on a "need to cos it's almost
    broken" basis, fuel consumption is an important indicator of things
    amiss.
    
    Laurie.

>    I just fill up where ever is cheepest or if i need it now which ever brand
>   is handiest. I've know idea what mpg i get but with a 3 litre its low
>   whatever the brand.
 
Absolutely,  I only fill up when the light indicates that I am down to 3 gallons, 
and then it is with the first 'quality' fuel that I can find. (Esso,BP etc...)

I only tend to notice when I need more fill-ups per week than usual,  but I have
got numb to the price of fuel and don't think it is worth looking for savings of
5p per gallon!

Gas guzzlers of the world unite! (You have nothing to lose but your cash!)

_Richard

	RE: .29 On cheaper Diesel

	I've never noticed any increase in fuel consumption with cheaper 
	diesel, but on the other hand, I've seen power _increase_ with some 
	brands. Also, a colleague and I have both had fuel injection 
	problems related to using low-quality (price) fuel, in addition to 
	increased amounts of black smoke and vibration. So now, we tend to 
	stick with the 'proper' ones...

	FWIW,	

	/Ben

Yes, I do calculate my mpg at every fill up.  Two reasons:

1) I've a petrol warning light that comes on rick-a-dick-a-lessly early, so
   need to know how far I can get on a tank.

2) Increased fuel consumption can be a warning of engine problems.

Regarding 1) above, I was talking to my physio this morning and she actually
ran out of petrol (twice!) after changing to cheap petrol (no fuel warning light
on her Golf!).  She calculated that see was getting between 50 and 70 less
driving miles per tank - about two gallons of fuel.

Mike B.

    I always reset my trip on refilling, I expect 300+ (320 ish usually)
    per tankfull (43ish litres). If I don't get the 300 I worry, if I get
    more I'm pleased. (app 34 MPG)
    
    I used to drive Diesels (may do so again) The first BX I had back in
    '85 I filled up regularly at the local Texaco garage. Within 1000 miles
    I was getting lumpy tickover (not evident originally). The garage
    diagnosed dirty injectors and had them cleaned.
    
    Fine for a while, then Within 1000 miles I was getting lumpy tickover
    .... I eventually changed to shell and never had it again.
    
    However since I understand they have fitted self-cleaning injectors.
    
    (P.S. for the same volume I used to get 400+ miles with the BX, approx
    43 MPG)
    Richard

    Re .25 
    >About a week and a half ago, some of the petrol producers put their
    >prices down by between 12 and 18 pence per gallon (BP is the only one
   > which springs to mind.)
    >Whilst driving around, I've seen no significant price decrease at any
    >garages I've driven past.
    
    Well. I have noticed exactly the same  point. The ONLY petrol station
    that I have seen that has lowered their price by 12p is TESCO in
    ANDOVER. (1.87 a gallon at the mo.)
    	TESCO in NEWBURY is still at 1.99 a gallon.
    
    	I'm sure there is some logic there somewhere.
    
    	Chris...

    The andover Tesco price might have something to do with:
    a) The fact that it's only just opened and 
    b) the fact that the new Shell garage is about to open over the road.
    
    The tesco unleaded was 42.1p/litre the day it opened. don't know what
    it is now....
    
    Andy

    Yeah, yeah, yeah I know this is cars_uk but there's usually a few euro
    readers so here goes...
    
    Can someone give me the petrol prices (4*, leaded, unleaded) in the
    following countries:
    
    		France
    		Germany
    		Italy
    		Switzerland
    		Holland
    		Belgium
    
    Price per litre in local currency please. This is for the in-laws to
    plan their big-trip later this year. 
    
    Muchas gracias, in advance.
    
    T.

    
    In ORACLE on ITV in the holidays section, they have a page showing
    petrol prices across Europe.
    
    Richard.
    

Switzerland. Unleaded (95 Octane) around SFr1.17. Leaded is a bit more.
Add about 0.15/l for motorway service stations.

/Paul.

    
    BP Have started a special where their petrol is cheaper over the
    weekends!
    
    This weekend I paid 48.4 pence/litre (at the BP on the peanut
    rounderbout on the A4 east of Reading).
    
    I think their normal price is something around 51.x p/L
    
    Steve

    
    I usully get mine from the superstores when I can, currently paying
    45.9p
    
    Richard (young)
    

    re. .45
    
    For the paupers without ORACLE or CEEFAX could someone post the page ?
    
    Ta.

RE: .46

Leaded is SFr 1.26, Diesel 1.23

The Swiss had a referendum 2 months ago, where they voted to put up the pump
price by 20% - until then it was amongst the cheapest in Europe.....

;-(

-Steve

    Euro 95 is about Fl. 1,80 in the Netherlands.

I bought petrol from Tesco's Newbury the other day - after
the budget, for 45.9p. I think this was the cheapest it's
been for months. They did have a board up boasting 
pre budget prices - I guess they've just increased the price
of food.

    Savacentre's was 44.9p a few days ago - after the budget though (price
    was reduced from 45.9p some weeks ago). You get 5p per gallon off if
    you spend more than �25 in the savacentre.
    
    Andrew

    Spare a thought for us poor folk in Northern Ireland, we are now paying
    an average of 55p per litre for unleaded....and still only allowed to
    claim the paltry 8p per mile.
    
    Tom :-(

    
    >Spare a thought for us poor folk in Northern Ireland, we are now
    >paying an average of 55p per litre for unleaded...
    
    Thats about the average for Basingstoke unless you go to Sainsburys or
    Tescos. The Mobil garage at the GL roundabout is 55.6 per litre
    
    POL
    

    
    Thought you might be interested in the price here in Oz. I pay 65 cents
    per litre (about 31 pence) at a Shell dealer, though I have seen it as
    low as 62-63 cents.
    
    Agg

Someone from the AA said on the TV last night that 75% of the
price of petrol is tax.

>Someone from the AA said on the TV last night that 75% of the
>price of petrol is tax.

I can believe that. I pay less than 20p per litre here (US) for regular
unleaded (not premimum). Petrol is taxed in the US, though obviously nowhere
near as much as in the UK. 

Colin.

    Here in Brussels leaded petrol is 70p a litre, unleaded is about 60p and
    diesel is about 47p. How much of that is tax I wonder?
    
    Cheers, Laurie$diesel_driver.

    Here in western Canada (Calgary, Alberta) we pay about $.48 per litre
    for regular unleaded.  Premium unleaded is about .05 to .07 more
    expensive.  Leaded gas doesn't exist anymore here in the great white
    north.  I have no idea what so ever what our price equates to in
    English currency.......
    
    Brian
    

    �what our price equates to in English currency.
    
    Brian,   $.48 = approx �0.30 (30p)
    
    Royston

    Thanks, Royston
    
    It would appear that our price, outrageous as it is, is not so bad when
    compared to other parts of the world.  I am assuming that you did the
    conversion using Canadian dollars as opposed to US dollars......there
    would be an additional 20% difference........
    
    Brian
    

    No leaded petrol? Gawd, what about classic cars?
    
    Loz$leaded_Frogeye.

re -1

Not really a problem.  If they aren't driven that much or too hard (like my '24
Stude) the miniscule wear will not be noticed.

If you need a lubricant, there are lead substitutes on the market you can add to
unleaded fuel.

I have my own 2-3 gallon supply of 20+ year old leaded fuel.  I add a cup full
to the gas tank of the '24 every fill up or so just for fun.  It also smells so
bad it keeps other cars off my tail!

I tried to run my lawn mower on the stuff once and it wouldn't run for more than
10 seconds....

Dave

    CDN$ is 2.2 to the �, so it's even cheaper - 48c=22p!
    
    Rgds John (ex-Calgarian)

    The idea of pottering round in my Frogeye to protect the engine because
    the petrol is crap does not appeal AT ALL!
    
    Laurie.

    
    Laurie,
    
    Surely on a recently 'built' engine you've got hardened valve seats?
    
    In that case the only problem should be the octane rating of the fuel
    and what they call Super-Unleaded in the UK is actually higher than
    4 star now.
    
    As far as I know there's no reason NOT to have hardened valve seats
    fitted (except the cost!).
    
    Mark

    I can't remember the details now, but both the first head-builder (Mr.
    Bodge-it) and the second head-builder (Precision Ports, Ipswich)
    advised against it. So I didn't.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

When I first joined DIGITAL in August '73 (Not November '72) and was on my New
Hire training as a DECsystem 10 FSE, the yanks were MOST upset because they had
about exceeded their own production capabilities for petrol and HAD to buy it
from other countries.  Canada was charging the US of A a higher price than the
Canadian pump prices!!!  The Yanks were not happy.

	Nice one Canada!

				Malcolm.