Conference terri::cars_uk

    Can anyone give details of the activities before the race..
    
    Is it generally the same each year ?
    
    for example....
    
    		Scrutineering.....	Tuesday in the town ???
    		Qualifying........	Wednesday evening ???
    		      "                 Thursday     "   
    		
    Can anyone confirm this ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Robbo
    

    Yeh,
    
    
    		sounds about right, scrutineering is always on the tuesday
    and a fairly long winded affair , I thing in the town square.
    
    Practice is wednesday and thursday evening. I think the times are
    something like 7-9pm and 10-12pm on both days.
    
    
    	Garry

    
    
    Thanks Gary,
    
    As you're an experienced 'Le Mans person' if I was planning to take a
    tent (4 man, so I doubt if I could put it next to the car in the car
    park) and a couple of cars, should I try and book in advance at one of 
    the campsites ?
    
    If so is it easiest to let Chequers Travel do it all for you ?
    
    Rob

    I've been to Le Mans 5 times now, this includes the last three years. 
    A couple of us run a transit from DEC and normally take about 12 people
    down there.  We have never bought any tickets in advance and have never
    had any problems getting into the campsite.
    
    We always go for "garage vert" I know some people think this is full of
    beer swilling English, but some people may say thats what we are!!.  We
    will normally see off 2 or 3 cases of beer on the way down, but it's
    all good fun.
    
    We have already booked the ferry for next year, going out 1500 Hrs from
    Portsmouth to Caen, returning on the Monday?.
    
    Brittany Ferries are giving Discounts on certain sailings this year, it
    just so happens that the ones we wanted were those. We go to Caen
    because our van drinks the petrol a bit, and it is about 60 miles
    shorter than going to Cherbourg.
    
    Maybe we will see you there?
    
    Cheers Ian...

    Thanks,
    
    Is 'Garage Vert'  the site near Maison Blanche or not...
    
    If not whereabouts is it ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob
    

    Garage Vert or more properly "Camping Du Houx" is situated on the
    inside of the circuit near the Bugatti circuit.  Facilities are not
    what you would require if you are going to take the wife.
    
    We always use this particular circuit because they charge per vehicle
    and not per tent, when we go in we pay about �12 for the van load, last
    year that meant about 6 tents (some people had heard about my snoring
    and brought their own).  When a friend turned up on his motorbike
    (without a pillion) he was charged the same!.  I must admit we have
    never tried any other campsites, but the one we use is good enough with
    easy access to the Dunlop bridge and a similar distance from Tetre
    Rouge.
    
    I forgot to say in my previous reply, that we leave on the Thursday at
    1500 Hrs.
    
    Also if you are interested, when I was putting a stand up at the "Auto
    sports International" show last Monday, I saw at least 3 Le Mans cars
    turn up (Jaguar,Nissan and a Peugeot), so you might like to pop up
    there.  It is on till Sunday, and if you do go, let me know what you
    think of the "Top Alcohol Drag Racing" stand in hall 8 next to the
    Rally display (And see if you can tell where DecWrite has been used).
    
    Cheers Ian...

    Thanks for the Le Mans info...  (I remember seeing this campsite now
    from Last year) 
    
    whereabouts do you get access to it ?
    
    
    BTW.. 
    
    	I actually visited Autosports International at the NEC on
    Saturday. I really enjoyed it - especially the Murray and James
    interviews.. Unfortunately  I didn't spend a lot of time looking at
    the drag stuff.  I'm more of a F1, SWC person.
    
    I'll start a new note about the Show..
    
    Rob

    The easiest way of getting to the campsite is to follow the signs. 
    When you approach Le Mans you will begin to see signs for the various
    coloured garages, just follow the colour of your choice.  But once you
    are all set it is easy to find your way around using trhe map in the
    programme (which I'm looking at now).
    
    I would like to hear from anybody else who has used different campsites
    in the past as some friends of mine are going, and they would like a
    camp site with decent facilities.  I think Bleu may be one with
    flushing toilets and showers.
    
    Also does anybody have any experience of getting the entrance tickets
    at a discount?  I believe this is possible if you send for them in
    advance stating that you are a member of the AA,  I know last year
    there were a lot of tickets around for 240FF and also some at 200FF
    when we paid 280FF, any ideas?.  I think the 200FF ones were for ACO
    members.
    
    We already have 7 people confirmed to go with us in the Transit as well
    as another 5 friends going (2 in a TR6,2 in an MGA and 1 in a Westfield
    that is still to be completed).
    
    As we are normally the first of the bunch to arrive (about 2 in the
    morning on the Friday) we set up the camp, sometimes taking our friends
    tents as well, we then rope if an area to accomodate the later
    arrivals.  We then all meet up in the Caf� des Anglais? which is very
    close to the main entrance (it is in fact just under the p�age and up a
    small hill away) at 11 O'clock.  Some of us thgen have a few jars
    while the others go off to the Hypermarket to stock up with food and
    drink for the weekend.  We tend to be a little civilised, we take a
    fridge for the beer.
    
    Last year I was asked on the docks by a frightfully frightful lady,
    whether it was an oven or a fridge wqe had on the roofrack, to which I
    replied "Lady, you don't keep Beer in an oven" much to the hilarity of
    the others.
    
    That should be enough to be going on with..
    
    Cheers Ian...

    As far as campsites go, I have been to 2 of them and spoken to folk who
    have used a 3rd. The worst was bleu for me, mind you this was some
    years ago. The facilities were to say the least basic, stand pipes and
    the chemi karzees ( not pleasant ). The site is next to garage bleu, so
    its outside of the track , more or less opposite to Maison Blanc. 
    Maison Blanc is no better, stand pipes and chemi's. Last year it was
    very full by Wednesday and also were the chemi's. The site is nothing
    special but if you luck and really want to you can park up near the
    fence and see the cars screem past whilst stuffing your face.
    
    I'm lead to believe that Des s is the one to go for. I'm told it has
    useable loo's and hot showers, sounds unbelievable for Le Mans.
    
    Thats my 5 centimes
    
    Garry

    I heard on the radio yesterday that in practise for this years event a
    Peugeot had beaten the lap record by 6 (six) seconds!
    
    I found this difficult to believe given the big names here have
    typically been Porsche, Jaguar, etc.
    
    Am I that much out of touch or is this case of selective info from the
    uninformed media?
    
    JK

    Yes you are out of touch. This years race features no Jags,only
    private Porsche entries and no Mercedes. The "top dogs" these
    days are Peugot and Toyota. These two are the only "serious"
    factory entries this season but may not last the distance.
    
    This years entry has been described as "the worst since the 30's"
    and the race looks set to be the most open in years.
    
    Beating the lap record by six seconds is impressive;but pole
    doesn't really mean a lot at Le Mans. I think Peugot are
    making a point of getting pole this year as well. Looks
    like they will do just that.

Also, the field is attracting so little attention that the French TV
are not even going to show the start and finish live this year !!!

Or at least, that's what I heard yesterday ...

    Fastest lap time is used to compute the slowest entry lap time allowed.
    But this year they'll take all 30 cars anyway.

So, anybody got the results ??

Thanks.

.16�So, anybody got the results ??
    
     1. Blundell-Dalmas-Warwick		Peugeot 905 
     2. Acheson-Raphanel-Sekiya		Toyota TS010		+ 6laps
     3. Alliot-Baldi-Jabouille		Peugeot 905		+ 7laps
     4. Gachot-Herbert-Weidler		Mazda-Judd		+16laps
     5. Andskar-Fouche-Johansson   	Toyota 92CV		+16laps
     6. Pescarolo-Ricci-Wollek		Cougar-Porsche		+17laps
     7. Lavaggi-Nielsen-Reuter		Kremer-Porsche962	+18laps
     8. Fabi-Lammers-Wallace		Toyota TS010		+21laps
     9. Elgh-Irvine-Ratzenberger	Toyota 92CV		+31laps
    10. Altenbach-Laessig-Yver		Obermaier-Porsche962	+55laps
    11. Copelli-Donovan-Rickett		Kremer-Porsche962	+55laps
    12. D.Bell, J.Bell, Needell		ADA-Porsche962		+68laps
    13. Frentzen-Kasuya-Matsuda		Euroracing-Lola-Judd	+81laps
    14. DeLesseps-Iacobelli-Piper	Chamberlain-Spice-Ford	+94laps

Fastest lap: 	Teo Fabi, Toyota	3'32"295

30 cars entered
28 starters 

Championship after Le Mans:	1. Peugeot	55 points
				2. Toyota	35
				3. Mazda	25
                                 

How many current or ex-F1 drivers can others see in the results listings - I
think that there are 11!

Steve

    From the mouth of veteran Henri Pescarolo: "of the 25 times I've been
    racing here this was the most difficult one".
    
    The 24h 'enjoyed' varying weather conditions at all times. Varying
    between pouring rain and dry roads, of course with major differences
    from one end of the circuit to the other.
    
    The pace, although slower than on a dry track, never relaxed. During
    the 1st hour, the ex-Jag (Mazda) driven by Weidler, held 1st place.
    
    Until the finish line the Peugeots and the Toyota maintained a fast
    pace.
    
    The winning Peugeot completed 352 laps.

re: .20

I count 16:

Blundell
Dalmas
Warwick
Acheson
Raphanel
ALliot
Baldi
Jabouille
Gachot
Herbert
Johansson
Pescarolo
Fabi
Lammers
D. Bell
Needell

    
    Well I was actually there!!!!
    
    Crowds were well down on previous years (although there did seems a lot
    of people there at the start) which was probably due to a mixture of
    the rain and the sparse field.
    
    The 3.5 litres were impressively quick and remarkably reliable (most of
    the ones which did fail, did so due to typical Le Mans failures/crashes
    rather than anything specific). Obviously Peugeot (especially), Toyota
    and Mazda had done a great job in preparing their 24 hour cars.
    
    The Mazda of Herbert/Wiedler/Gachot threatened to repeat last year's
    result in the early stages, upsetting the largely French crowd (and
    Derek Warwick, I'm told) by nicking the lead at one point. As the race
    progressed, however, Peugeot took control and Toyota crept up into
    contention. The finish wasn't a nail biter, but it was as close as most
    and enough to make the threat of some sort of mechanical fragility in
    the top 3 a real threat to the status quo.
    
    Of the also rans, the Cougars impressed, but never really challenged
    (as they weren't supposed to, the pace of the 3.5s). The Kremer Porsches 
    and the turbo Toyotas also put up a good showing to keep the class
    battle alive for much of the race. The national championship cars were
    restricted to 2 Peugeot Spyders and an Alfa Romeo thingy (little open
    sportscar). All were pathetically slow, but the number 66 Spyder got a
    cheer for venturing out for a few final laps at the end - People at Le
    Mans seem to appreciate the effort involved.
    
    The BRM team suffered from Le Mans pettiness as so many other British
    teams seem to have done so in the past. Due to not unexpected problems
    in practice, only Wayne Taylor was able to set a night time qualifying
    time and so come the race the car was only allowed to be driven by him
    and only for 1 4 hour stint (even if he'd got out of the car, the fact
    that no-one else was driving it would have meant that he was still
    considered to be driving it!). The car did make the start and looked
    and sounded remarkably good, considering the tiny budget and ambitious
    nature. It quickly moved up to 14th place (out of a 28 car field), but 
    gear selection problems sidelined it early on and it was only seen for 
    a few brief laps again, before it was put away before dark. Some major 
    sponsorship could see this little team challenging the likes of
    Euroracing next season, and I hope they do.
    
    Talking of Euroracing, the Lolas turned out to be the one unreliable
    3.5, both suffering from transmission problems with their new Le Mans
    spec gearboxes. However, when they were running, especially in the
    rain, they were quick. At one point on Saturday, one of them was
    setting fastest lap after fastest lap and, although the Radio Le Mans
    commentator seemed doubtful of the times, anyone watching on the track
    could see that the car was being pedalled a lot quicker than the bigger
    name's cars.
    
    So, all in all, Le Mans this year was a lot better than it promised to
    be. Ok it rained and ok, not many teams took part, but those who did
    put on a fair show and anyone watching the cars out of the Porsche
    curves at night with huge rooster tails of spray trailing behind them
    is unlikely to forget it.
    
    Roll on Number 15! :^)
    
    Mark

    Thanks for this excellent report Mark.
    
    Some thoughts: why are people so worried about 3.5ltr engined cars
    being unreliable ? In the 1970-75 time frame they were restricted to
    using 3ltr engines and they did finish the race (Matra, Ferrari, Lola,
    Porsche, ...). Using a F1 engine as a base means you'll have to detune
    it to something like 400-500bhp, use stronger (sometimes heavier)
    parts, do some endurance testing ... This takes time and energy but
    it's feasible.

    
    I think the doubts about 3.5 reliability were based on the first 2 500
    km races. In both those races, most of the cars broke down and it
    seemed that even with mods the cars would have a very tough time
    lasting for 24 hours.
    
    I bet Jaguar are feeling a bit miffed now. The XJR-14 (MXR-01?) Mazda
    looked good throughout the race and I'm sure a Jaguar steamroller
    effort with the car and HB engines would have been in a strong position
    to take the laurels from Peugeot.
    
    Come to think of it, if you'd just seen pictures of the crowd, you
    would've thought that Jaguar WERE there! :^)
    
    Mark

Great news, looks like the ACO have done a 'see figure 1' to Mosley and FISA
and will no longer be associated with the SWC. Hopefully Le Mans will be
open to anyone who pays the entry fee next year.

Ian.

    
    Good news indeed (and FISA can't really say much since they failed
    miserably to provide the minimum 50 cars guaranteed field). It was just
    this kind of approach they led to Group C (the real one, with big
    rumbly cars) in the first place.
    
    Mark

    .26�Great news, looks like the ACO have done a 'see figure 1' to Mosley and FISA
    .26�and will no longer be associated with the SWC. Hopefully Le Mans will be
    .26�open to anyone who pays the entry fee next year.
    
    In my opinion there are several events that have nothing to expect from
    FISA:
    
    		- LeMans 24h
    		- Indy
    		- MonteCarlo
    
    Efforts to incorporate those events into some sort of championship is a
    mistake. There is ONLY ONE of each. 
    
    However FISA may want to build on the success of those events by
    building championships around them ie Indy cars, 24h endurance races,
    etc ...
    
    Trying to have LeMans, Indy, etc ... fit into an existing championship
    will not work.

        
    Perhaps they'll get rid of the stupid chicanes on the Mulsanne as
    well!

    And take down all that stupid 'triple decker' armco,replace the
    new pit complex with something older,let the drivers run to their
    cars at the start and allow cars to carry mechanics as passengers !!
    

    
    don't forget the wooden spoked wheels! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    I'm not so sure about the re-introduction of the 'riding mechanic'...
    :-)
    
    Elaine

    
    Well I was there, I think the race this year was a flop. Maybe the
    weather had a big hand in the fact ,but it sure did not have the
    atmosphere. I'm not sure that the aco pulling away from Fisa is the
    right answer. However I think that to get sportscar racing back to what
    it was , it needs someone with a real intrest in thr formula to sort it
    out.
    
    I was dead supprised that the race was still going at 11pm , ever more
    supprised at 6 am. The whole event was made for me on friday. Hands up
    those who watched the fireworks on friday!!!!!!!!
    
    
    I was getting the pip with the frenchman and 'Le Rocket Car'. For those
    that missed it, and boy did you miss something, The french chap was
    wittering on about 'le rocket car' with increasing vigour, and sure
    enough something was wheeled out onto the track at the ford chicane.
    After many more mentions of 'le rocket car' a ford Mk 3 cortina estate
    in silk cut colours came rouring along the pit straight directly after
    one of the now famous mentions of 'Le rocket car'. Fantastic timing.
    The rocket car itself was a bit of a let down, as expected.
    
    
    
    
    
     Garry

    
    I was there too, and because of the inclement weather chose to sit up
    in the pit stands. My perch was directly over the Peugeot pit from
    where I was able to monitor a lot, if not all, the action.
    
    For me a lot of the rules are a joke! 1) Not allowing cars to get to the
    grid when they haven't come out of the pit lane 1 minute before the 
    off. 2) Allowing those funny small open cars to race at all.. 3) The most 
    annoying thing was that none of the leading cars actually took the 
    checkered flag... (Daft!).
    
    All in all I enjoyed the weekend enormously especially as the Europeans
    triumphed. Also had time to walk the entire circuit on Friday so can
    now relate to all the events.
    
    - Ian
    

    - top speed during qualifications
    
    	Peugeot No1	349kph	Restaurant des Hunaudieres
    			351kph	before Indianapolis corner
    
    	Toyota and Kremer Porsche slightly slower
    
    - Tyres won Le Mans this year !
    
    	If Peugeot had been using Goodyear and Toyota had been using
    Michelin it would have been a Toyota victory. Detailed study of lap
    times show that the Michelin were faster on the wet track.

    That was fairly evident at Esses during the early part of the race. The
    peugeot was quite quick through esses were as all the porsches, I think 
    without exception ,looked as if they were tip toeing around. Having 
    said that the Toyota's and the Mazda (5) looked quick through esses
    but not as comfortable as the peugeot.
    
    As for the end of the race, I know traditionally the winner has crossed
    the line and been virtually mobbed for some time . The practice now of
    preventing the cars crossing the line is getting both dangerous and 
    annoying. You could not help but notice that barbed wire had been put
    up between 2 walls along the pit straight , more fencing has gone up
    and even some good spectating areas are now off linits. One can only 
    assume that some of this is to combat the problem.
    
    Garry
    

    
    
    Yup. Another vote for the "Son et Lumi�re". Superb. Much better
    than the 24hr procession that followed.
    

    Could someone post the winners' statistics for some relevant period
    of time -- such as average speed, total laps, total distance, etc?
    I'm sure the rain more than offset the increased qualifying speeds,
    but I was curious about what effects the various changes in technology 
    and rules have had over the years.
    Thanks
    Bob
    

    see .19
    
    
    	Doen't have times but it has all 14 finishers.
    
    
    	Garry

    Winner has completed 352laps (x 13.6km). Not a record, but not bad
    considering the appalling weather they've had for most of the race.