Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Sure the white 'smoke' isn't steam? Maybe the thermostat opens and 
    water gets into the cylinders? Did you get the head and block checked
    for warping during the rebuild?
    
    Mark

    
    We checked the oil and water for contamination and it all looks fine.
    
    Don't think the head was checked though.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Steve

    
    Does sound rather like a cylinder head gasket blown.  Checked out the
    compression on all cylinders with a compression tester (they're
    relatively inexpensive to buy)
    
    
    
    Graham Warnes

    Dont forget this engine will smoke for quite a while because of all the
    oil used in the rebuild. I rebuilt an A series last winter and when we
    got the thing going it smoked like a train for about the first mile.
    
    	I agree with the previous reply, get a compression tester, it costs
    about 15 quid from Halfords and its a bloody usefull tool. Sounds to me
    like the head gasket, or even the rings - did you have any trouble
    fitting the pistons. If you didn't clean the grooves out properly the
    rings wont seat properly.
    
    Andy

    
    Re .0
    
    What did you do with the distributor when the engine was being rebuilt?
    Did you strip it down or just leave it somewhere till you needed
    it?
    
    I had a problem similar to the one you describe when the counterweights
    that help control advance/retard timing got 'stuck'. The newly rebuilt
    engine ran like a pig (Morris Minor, but 1098cc + 12G295 head so same
    as MG). The whole assembly can be examined by removing the plate
    in the distributor on which the points are fixed. Could be worth
    a look before you start stripping the engine down again. I'd also
    check for a cracked distributor cap and that the plug leads matched
    the firing order. In fact I'd look for any simple reason why the 
    engine was only firing on two cylinders.
        
    It could be either the head gasket or a warped head, but my experiences
    with A series, even tuned ones, suggested there's quite a lot of
    tolerance. I reckon that unless you've fitted the wrong gasket (done
    that), or forgotten to tighten the head down (done that too), the
    head would need to be badly warped to get the plugs oiling up and
    $hitty and pumping white smoke.
    
    Richard
    
    

    
    Cheers, for all the advice.
    
    Will be looking into in the next couple of evenings.
    
    Steve (hoping that an engine strip down is not needed!)

    It sounds as though there is water getting into the bores. It may be
    that you fitted the head gasket incorrectly (upside down), either that
    or the head is warped/damaged.
    
    If the car was not spewing out white smoke beforehand it is unlikely
    that the block is cracked.
    
    One of the best ways to check if water is present, is to do a
    compression test on the cylinders. IF any of them are ABOVE the
    recommended ratio, then there is a possibility that water is reducing
    the swept volume, therby increasing the compression ratio.
    
    Also, remove the plugs, and wrap some kitchen paper around a long pipe
    cleaner (or something suitable). Push this down through the plug hole
    onto the top of the piston. IF when you remove the kitchen paper there
    is even the slightest trace of water (not petrol) then I am afraid you
    are going to have the cylinder head removed again.
    
    Good luck...John    
                                                     

    
    Try taking the spark plugs out and turning the engine over - if you get
    a fountain out of the spark plug holes - the gasket is gone! (watch out
    for the goldfish! :-) )
    
    Elaine

Silly thought but, did you double/tripple check that all of the wires
are going to the correct spark plugs?

    Re .-1
    
    ...ermmmm I think so .... put a dab of tippex (white out) for the plug
    number on each lead ... so should be okay.
    
    Does Tippex ruin the conductivity of distributor leads ? ;^)
    
    Re .some back
    
    A kind soul has loaned me his compression tester so will be checking
    out the tubes (read cylanders) later.
    
    What sort of variation between the bores is healthy?  1=%, 5%, 25%?
    
    Cheers,
    
    
    Steve (brused and cut but not defeated!)

    The guage I have has a scale which is graduated from red to green.
    Red being the lower end of the scale.
    
    	I rebuilt a Cavalier engine last year and the readings from that
    were 150psi per cylinder.
    
    	I rebuilt an A35 engine also last year because the readings were:
    
    		90 - 60 - 25 - 100
    
    The readings now read 140+ , all we did was replace the rings, hone the
    bores and obviously a new gasket set.
    
    	I doubt that Tippex would have any side effect on the plug leads,
    but it wouldn,t hurt to check that all the timing is correct, make sure
    to distributor isn't 360 degrees out - I doubt it would run though, but
    worth checking. A series engines do funny things sometimes, my 
    girlfriends metro engine surprised me at the weekend, it had a problem
    with running on - and I was watching it and as the engine was about to
    stop, it ran backwards for a few turns. Couldn't believe it !
    
    	Hope this is of some use
    
    Andy

    
    If two cylinders are OK - then maybe you've managed to swap the plug
    leads to the other two...
    
    (My Dad and I once re-built an Imp engine, and managed to get the
    timing 180 degrees out - ie sparking on the exhaust cycle - if we'd
    have managed to make it run like that, I'd have been a millionaire
    by now! :-)  )             

    
    It's worth checking (seemingly there are some fairies who come in 
    the night and swap around all your marking on wires - they did it
    to my Marcos headlight wire when I had the bonnet off! :^)), but
    that smoke still sounds mighty ominous.
    
    Mark

    ...2 cylinders not working ? I agree it sounds like 2 plugleads
    swapped. I was caught out on an A-series engine when different vintages
    had different HT distribution. I assumed that the distributor was
    clockwise instead of Anti-clockwise, because when I reversed the
    HT-leads it sprang into life. I had copied the arrangement from a mini
    to a Marina & got it wrong. Bottom-line is crank the engine by hand &
    connect the leads as they line up with the powerstroke. Expect white
    smoke for a while as the exhaust system is forced to give up its
    moisture content.
    
    	Tony.

>>                -< re .11 - 360� out should run just fine  8'} >-
    
    Not if it's the engine that's out by 360 degrees...
    
    Normally stated as the distributor out by 180 degrees.
    
    J.R.

    re:15
    
    Not really, there are 720 degrees to a complete cycle.
    
    Let me try and clarify the situation.
    
    	If during the rebuild the crankshaft was not timed up properly, 
    ie. the camshaft was 180 degrees out of phase with it, you will get the
    effect of the ignition timing being 360 degrees out. This will cause
    the ignition to fire on the exhaust stroke.
    	I must at this point add that this is only true when the distributor
    is driven from the crankshaft. If it is driven from the camshaft it wont 
    matter at all.
    
    	The engine will run in this condition, but only very irratically
    and at wont tick over. It is running on the unburn't fuel still in the
    cylinders. This could explain some of the white smoke, unburnt fuel in
    the hot exhaust. Need I say this is not a desirable situation to be in.
    
    	If this is the case, the engine should run properly if the
    ingnition leads were moved 180 degrees on the distributor cap.  
    
    Best of luck with your troubleshooting
    
    Andy

    J.R.
    
    You must have replied whilst I was replying.......

    This wouldn't explain the white smoke, but also check that you lined
    up the timing gears correctly when you installed the timing chain. 
    This was a little bit tricky when I replaced the timing chain on my
    Midget engine this summer.  I got it right the first time, but I know
    someone who is very experienced with this sort of thing, who has
    installed the timing chain on a A series engine 1 tooth off.
    
    1 Tooth off wouldn't cause all of the symptoms that you describe, but
    this is something that is easy to verify.
    
    al
    

    I'm inclined to agree with Derek.
    
    I've pulled a few 'A' Series apart in my time, and recently re-built
    the engine in my Frogeye. I took great care with the cam/distributor
    timing, and had no problems.
    
    First off, check the firing order, and ensure the plug-leads are
    correct, and that lead 1 comes off the one the rotor arm points at when
    cylinder 1 is on the firing stroke, at TDC or thereabouts. To ensure
    this, get piston 1 at the top, and make sure the two valves are closed;
    moving the crank in either direction will cause one rocker or the other
    to move immediately. If either valve is open, then rotate another full
    turn until the piston is TDC, and check valves again. When valves
    "rock" then wherever the rotor arm is pointing, is where plug-lead 1
    should be. Assign the leads thereafter, if necessary, moving them at
    the cap end rather than on the plugs (they are cut to size). I *think*
    the firing order is 1342 but I can't be sure, and I have no reference
    here.
    
    Assuming the leads are correct, and the symptoms persist, then, and
    only then, consider checking the timing chain(s) and/or the cam timing.
    I think you'll find it's the leads.
    
    Laurie.

    YES. .21,  your technique gets my vote.
    
    	Tony.

    
    Well, finally got to get at the beast this weekend.
    
    First check was the compression test.
    
    Results were (going from 1 to 4) 140, 140, 120, 140
    
    Pretty healthy eh!
    
    Then checked out the ignition/timing ..... PERFECT!
    
    So that was it ..... off with its head!
    
    Removed the head in 20 minutes flat ... must be some kind of record 8^)
    
    Its amazing how much easier this was when the engine has recently been
    rebuilt instead of after 50,000 miles!!!
    
    Anyway the gasket was still good as far as we could see, although it
    was a bit thin and manky ... and there was signs of oil between pots 2
    and 3 (which on this block is a very narrow gap).
    
    We gave the cylinders a little push to see if they wobbled at all, and
    they didn't.
    
    Mind you the tops of 2 and 3 were very nearly all black!
    
    It was oil we were burning!!!!
    
    So anyway, stumped by this we put the head back on (using a much better
    copper gasket) and of course sheered off a rocker bolt in the process!
    (How come rocker bolts always sheer well before they reach their
    specified torque???)
    
    Re-fitted all the ancillary parts (except for a misplaced radiator cap
    - always lose something don't you!) in 50 minutes flat, and restarted
    the thing!
    
    Ran fine for a minute then suddenly great plumes of white oil smoke.
    
    It smoked so much that the garage was just a sollid white wall of smoke
    after running for 3 minutes!!
    
    Thing was it ran quite evenly ... amazing thing the A series engine!
    
    Anyway all i can conclude from this bit of fun, is that the wrng size
    piston rings have been fitted on pots 2 and 3.
    
    Does that sound feasable?
    
    Why would it not smoke until after a minute of running??
    
    Oh well .... at least we've elliminated the top end!
    
    Steve_ever_puzzled!

    
    Steve (et al),
    
    If there was oil on the head gasket 'between' the cylinders wouldn't
    that suggest that (given the gasket  was ok) the head IS warped?
    
    Mark

I had a Lancia that did this. It turned out to be that the crankcase breather
went to the inlet manifold and every now and again, particularly when it had
just been (over)filled, it used to dump a great dollop of oil in.

    
    Hi Mark,
    
    >If there was oil on the head gasket 'between' the cylinders wouldn't
    >that suggest that (given the gasket  was ok) the head IS warped?
    
    possibly the head is warped, but I don't think it would explain the
    amount of oil that was being burn't!!!
    
    Something else I forgot to mention was that the rockers were flooded
    with oil, almost as though oil was being blown up when the valves
    opened!!
    
    These cylinders were so bad, that when we removed the plugs, their gaps
    were full of Oil!!!!!!
    
    And you would have to see that smoke to beleive it!!! VERY VERY THICK
    and oily!
    
    Its so bad that we have little slicks where the down pointing exhast
    tail pipe is!!
    
    Or could this be caused by a head warp problem???
    
    I'm just an amatuer amatuer!
    
    Steve
    
    Keep them ideas coming .. thanks ... this note was a great help and
    continues to be!

    Hmmm....
    
    Two things I'd do at this stage...
    
    1) Get the head checked to see if the face is true.
    2) Check the bore sizes, at the top, and the bottom of the bore.
    
    Assuming there's a problem, fix it and test again, if not...
    
    If there's oil between 2/3 it could be your head, or the gasket.
    Remember, the second gasket could have been faulty. I'd also look to
    ensure that all the oil drain holes from the head are clear and clean.
    Whilst it is running, take the rocker/oil filler cap off and observe
    the oil level/flow, look for excessive "breathing". It could be valve
    guides or oil seals not working, and/or excessive oil in the rocker
    box. Another "gotcha" is the dip-stick, there are several different
    types, and you should measure the oil as it goes in, and not rely on
    the stick; too high an oil level in the sump will also cause the
    symptoms you describe, albeit less likely to be only 2/3 that are
    affected.
    
    There are only so many ways oil can get into the combustion chamber.
    Past the rings, via the head gasket, and via the valves. Good luck, and
    keep us informed, always pleased to help.
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. When the head's off, check the valve seats on 2/3, excessive oil
        burning causes carbon, which damages valve seats like no body's
        business.

    Ok, I've just read .26: some more clues!
    
    It looks more than likely that it's the head. Just to be sure, check
    the bores. I'd also like to know who re-built the engine, what
    engineering was done prior to the re-build, and what the "re-build
    consisted of (work done, parts supplied/used).
    
    However, I have a similar problem with my Frogeye, in that there is
    excessive oil in the rocker box. There are many causes of this, but that
    alone won't cause the problems you have. It looks more than likely that
    either the valve guides are shot, and/or the oil seals are shot. They
    are usually only fitted to the inlet valves. I think you need to strip
    the head and get the valve guides, seats and stems looked at. Was the
    head re-built? By whom? How skillfully? what was done?
    
    We seem to be narrowing it down a little, but all the above assumes the
    face of the head is true. From the volume of oil you suggest, I
    strongly suspect valves.
    
    Laurie.

Re .27
    
>    Two things I'd do at this stage...
    
>    1) Get the head checked to see if the face is true.

	Can do (anybody know a good place to get this done?)

>    2) Check the bore sizes, at the top, and the bottom of the bore.

Does this mean dropping the sump, and removing the head, removing the cylinders     
and then measuring. (what do you use to measure?)

>    Assuming there's a problem, fix it and test again, if not...
    
>    If there's oil between 2/3 it could be your head, or the gasket.

There really wasn't that much oil ... 

>    Remember, the second gasket could have been faulty. I'd also look to
>    ensure that all the oil drain holes from the head are clear and clean.
>    Whilst it is running, take the rocker/oil filler cap off and observe
>    the oil level/flow, look for excessive "breathing". It could be valve
>    guides or oil seals not working, and/or excessive oil in the rocker
>    box. 

The valve guides were replaced as part of the rebuild, so it shouldn't be these 
... could it?

How do you check the drain holes?

>   Another "gotcha" is the dip-stick, there are several different
>    types, and you should measure the oil as it goes in, and not rely on
>    the stick; too high an oil level in the sump will also cause the
>    symptoms you describe, albeit less likely to be only 2/3 that are
>    affected.
 
Hmm, it was the dip stick which came with the car (all �75 of it 8^), but as 
you say why only 2/3 oil up whilst 1 and 4 are perfect!
   
>    There are only so many ways oil can get into the combustion chamber.
>    Past the rings, via the head gasket, and via the valves. Good luck, and
>    keep us informed, always pleased to help.

Can that much oil really get into the pots via the head gasket or the valve 
guides??  I would still think it was the rings.
    
>    PS. When the head's off, check the valve seats on 2/3, excessive oil
>        burning causes carbon, which damages valve seats like no body's
>        business.

Ooops forgot about that .... better get them out and sorted!

    
    Re getting the head checked.
    
    Where do you live? I had a place in Fleet (Roe Engineering) check and
    skim the Marcos' heads and they seemed pretty reasonable. If Fleet's
    not local you'll almost certainly find a place capable of doing an
    acceptable job just by checking your local phone directory.
    
    Mark

    
>    It looks more than likely that it's the head. Just to be sure, check
>    the bores. I'd also like to know who re-built the engine, what
>    engineering was done prior to the re-build, and what the "re-build
>    consisted of (work done, parts supplied/used).
    
    Engine crank, bores and cam were rebuilt by some firm a friend of my
    dad knows.  The rest (cylinders guides etc etc were done by my dad and
    said friend).  Can only assume that both parties knew what they were
    doing but might not!
    
>    However, I have a similar problem with my Frogeye, in that there is
>    excessive oil in the rocker box. There are many causes of this, but that
>    alone won't cause the problems you have. 
    
    >It looks more than likely that
>    either the valve guides are shot, 
    
    As I said earlier, I'm pretty sure these are new ... standard
    replacement in a rebuild ... yes?
    
    >and/or the oil seals are shot. They
>    are usually only fitted to the inlet valves. I think you need to strip
>    the head and get the valve guides, seats and stems looked at. 
    
    What oil seals are these?  Ummmmmm ..... don't know if this was done,
    but then I wasn't there at the rebuild.
    
    >Was the
>    head re-built? By whom? How skillfully? what was done?
    
    Dad plus friend ... friend has rebuilt many engines, so hopefully a
    level of skill was used!???
    
    >We seem to be narrowing it down a little, but all the above assumes the
    >face of the head is true. From the volume of oil you suggest, I
    >strongly suspect valves.
    
    Yep, and thanks for the time taken.
    
    Its such a shame cos the car looks so damn good now as the whole car -
    minus the engine looks like a million (having been totally rebuilt from
    a total 75 quid wreck!  Must have a look at your frogeye sometime!)
    
    Cheers,
    
    Steve (trying to pick up the pieces!)
    
    

    re .31 
    
    My dad lives in Wokingham, so not too far in fleet.
    
    I'll get their number.
    
    Steve

    To check the bores you need (well it's easier) a special tool that is
    run up and down inside the bore. Each should be the same diameter from
    top to bottom, each should be perfectly spherical, all should be the
    same. You shouldn't need to take the pistons out at this stage.
    
    Both pistons and rings should match the bore. They will be marked, it
    would make sense to check they're right, but only when you've
    eliminated everything else, no sense in making work for yourself.
    
    You sound confident the rebuild was done properly, which makes it
    harder to be specific. I'd look for "warped" head, and/or badly
    engineered bores, and/or incorrect rings/pistons/bores. That's a real
    "doom and gloom" view though, check the head thoroughly first, I
    susoect that's where the problem is.
    
    Laurie.

    
    It's also safe to say that the head will be the easiest (no need to
    take the engine out again) and probably cheapest solution.
    
    Mark

    I recall from .x back that the smoke doesn't start immediately. This
    might support the theory that the oil is getting past the valves. It
    probably takes a good minute before the rocker box is really awash with
    oil. I would be inclined to run the engine with the cover off if
    feasable with this engine (sop to adjust valves on older Vauxhalls) &
    see if there is anything untoward happening. 
    
    Is there any sign of pressure buildup if you take the oil filler off
    with the engine running?
    
    You might consider taking the cyl 2 pushrods out, then run the engine.
    See if there is any difference in the amount of oil appearing in 2 vs.
    3. If there is, then the oil is getting past the valve stems.
    

Re .32

The oil seals are rubber or plastic cups with a hole in the bottom that are 
inverted and placed over the top of the valve guides with the valve stem 
passing through the hole. They are meant to stop oil getting down the valve 
guides. You should be able to see them inside the valve springs if you remove 
the rocker cover. 

It does sound as if there is an awful lot of oil though, and still seems odd 
that the problem should only apply to pots 2 and 3. In fact assuming there isn't
a problem with the components relating to cylinders 2 and 3 only, it does point 
to something common to those cylinders, ie head gasket, head warped, or maybe 
even the block deck is uneven. Can you not check these yourself with the edge 
of a steel rule laid across them.

You said the plug gaps were clogged with oil. Where does the oil start to 
appear? Inlet port, back of inlet valve, or just in the combustion chamber?


Mark.

Try swapping plug leads 2 and 3. Sounds like they are firing on the wrong
stroke to me. The black on the pistons and the smoke could be due to this
as well.

The A series will run with the leads reversed, but badly ...

    RE: -1
    
    Very true, but he said it ran nicely....
    
    My money is still on 1) dodgy head face, 2) oil leaking past the
    valves.
    
    Laurie.

Re.  <<< PLAYER::BROWNL "In-the-bog-smokers are selfish pigs." >>>
    
    Smoking in the bog is also a big risk - would you light up in there ?
    
    UK figures heard on the radio the other day was that 12 people die
    per hour (on average) from smoking-related causes.  That's one
    person every five minutes.  I wonder if that figure includes deaths from
    sudden combustion in the loo when lighting up ?   ;-)
    
    J.R.

    RE: -1
    
    Tart!!!!!!!

>>    Tart!!!!!!!

    Is that spelt with a 'T' or an 'F' ?
    
    
    Shaun

	I haven't read all of this topic but..

	Aren't these engines siamesed, with cyls 1 & 4, and 2 & 3 
	connected together and, in this case, fed from separate carbs.

	Investigate the one for 2&3. Sounds as if oil from a dashpot
	reservoir, crankcase recirc, or errantly connected pipe is
	going in with the mixture.

	-John
	

re: -1.

	The twin carb versions have one carb for 1&2 and another for 3&4,
	so a problem with 2&3 is unlikely to be carb related ...

        
    I don't believe you'd ever get enough oil through the valve guides
    to produce 'a garage full of white smoke'. With no o-seals at all
    the engine will be a bit smokey but not something resembling a steam
    engine.
    
    Someone mentioned earlier that they thought it could be a crankcase
    ventilation problem and another noter suggested that the engine
    could have been overfilled with oil.
    
    If you have a crankcase ventialation problem, it could explain why
    you have so much oil in the rocker box area. It would definitely
    cause the engine to be very smokey as oil is forced up passed the
    rings by the unnatural pressure in the sump. 
    
    I've known three types of ventilation on the A-series. A breather
    pipe with just one right angled turn in it to point it down at the
    road. A twisted pipe that also finished up pointing at the road
    and a valve controlled tube affair.  The first two are easily
    checked for blockages - you should be able to see daylight down
    them!

    But.... having written this, if it is definitely white smoke that's
    being emitted then I think this is much more likely to be steam
    than oil smoke (normally bluish) and that you do have a warped head
    or head gasket problem.
    
    Richard.
    

Have you measured the compression again since you took the head off ???

Did you measure it with all plugs out ???

The figures you gave previously lead me to believe that the head
is OK ... for oil to be leaking in, the compression must be able 
to get out the same way, mustn't it ???

    
>    If you have a crankcase ventialation problem, it could explain why
>    you have so much oil in the rocker box area. It would definitely
>    cause the engine to be very smokey as oil is forced up passed the
>    rings by the unnatural pressure in the sump. 
    
    How could you explain that only cylinders 2 and 3 burn oil?
    
>    But.... having written this, if it is definitely white smoke that's
>    being emitted then I think this is much more likely to be steam
>    than oil smoke (normally bluish) and that you do have a warped head
>    or head gasket problem.
    
    Well it most definitly is oil.  Yes more bluish .... I know cos the
    inside of my thought felt very well lubricated after standing in that
    garage for a few seconds ... and my All Johnson impression was quite
    outstanding! 8^)
    
    Still very confused ..... but at least I know I'm not the only one! 8^)
    
    Steve ... oh and thanks
    
    
    

    
>Have you measured the compression again since you took the head off ???

    Nope
    
>Did you measure it with all plugs out ???
    
    Yep!

>The figures you gave previously lead me to believe that the head
>is OK ... for oil to be leaking in, the compression must be able 
>to get out the same way, mustn't it ???
    
    Guess so.
    
    To answer -2 again .. there is a breather pipe from the crankcase to
    the inlet/outlet manifold.
    
    This is a new pipe, so whether there is a problem in the manifold or
    the crancase I don't know.
    
    Cheers,
    
    
    Steve

RE: <<< Note 1598.48 by IOSG::FREER "Three spellings short of a dictionary? .." >>>

    
�    To answer -2 again .. there is a breather pipe from the crankcase to
�    the inlet/outlet manifold.
    
    Hmmmm.. Ok, remove it at the manifold end, and leave it free. Don't
    forget to block off the manifold hole! Run the beast again and see what
    happens...
    
    Laurie. 

    
    Oh for a Haynes manual.... (with apologies if my memory is incorrect)
    
    There is a breather from the rocker box cover to the inlet
    manifold. There are no connections to the outlet manifold (exhast).
    The crankcase breather tube comes from the rear engine side plate.
    I have no recollections of a pipe from this crankcase breather
    to the inlet manifold. Did you buy this new pipe from BL and fit it  
    yourself or was it on the car when you bought it? Maybe this was
    fitted to MG twin-carbs only?
    
    In the A-Series, 1+2 inlets ports are siamesed as are 3+4 so if
    2+3 are the problem it seems unlikely that the cause is at the
    carb/inlet manifold end.
        
    You say that 2+3 are very oily, but the engine runs smoothly, which
    suggests the engine is firing on all four cylinders. Are 1+4 really
    clean? Or have they just continued to fire and so look clean? Are
    they completely dry and with a light grey (dry) deposit on them?
     
    I had a problem once when I lined up all the gaps in the rings before
    fitting the piston in the bore. It looked nice, but burnt quite
    a bit of oil! But I can't believe you've done that on two cylinders.
        
    If you're certain that 1+4 are absolutely ok and the smoke is blue
    (like the air, I imagine :-)) I think you'll have to look at the
    head/gasket. Good luck!

    Another thought : On the 1098 MG engine, the head was a "12G295" and
    was not a standard A-series head as fitted to Minors, 1100s etc... this
    one had bigger inlet valves and maybe(?) bigger exhaust valves as well
    other differences. The 'pattern spare' head gasket sets available from
    all lousy motor parts shops used to be cut to accept all head/block
    combinations (they had more holes than a string vest). When you take
    the head off, it would be worth checking that the gasket has holes in
    the right places for both the block and the head.... and that the holes
    in the head match those in block. 
        
    Richard.
    

    
>    There is a breather from the rocker box cover to the inlet
>    manifold. 
    
    Not on this engine there isn't.  Rocker box cover is standard plastic
    top with a screw designed to enable a modecom of 'breathing'.
    
    >There are no connections to the outlet manifold (exhast).
>   The crankcase breather tube comes from the rear engine side plate.
>   I have no recollections of a pipe from this crankcase breather
>   to the inlet manifold. 
    
    There is a little cylinder on the crankcase cover (front left) which
    has a hole at the top where a pipe push fits over and goes to the inlet
    manifold where another little hole where the other end of the pipe push
    fits over.
    
    >Did you buy this new pipe from BL and fit it yourself or was it on the
    >car when you bought it? 
    
    Got it from Sprigitbits (M.G. Suppliers) .. had a similar thing on my
    old 74 Midget, but that split and went to both carbs instead of the
    manifold itself.
    
    >Maybe this was fitted to MG twin-carbs only?
    
    I'm sure the crankcase breather cylinder was the same for most A series
    engines ??
    
>    In the A-Series, 1+2 inlets ports are siamesed as are 3+4 so if
>    2+3 are the problem it seems unlikely that the cause is at the
>    carb/inlet manifold end.
    
    My feelings too!
        
>    You say that 2+3 are very oily, but the engine runs smoothly, which
>    suggests the engine is firing on all four cylinders. 
    
    Well I said that but who can tell when it is running at 3000 revs ...
    for all I know it could only be firing on 1 and 4 .... I guess saying
    smoothly was a bit over the top ... it kept going under its own steam
    with some choke, so that is smooth to me ... as far as this engine is
    concerned.
    
    >Are 1+4 really
>    clean? Or have they just continued to fire and so look clean? Are
    >they completely dry and with a light grey (dry) deposit on them?
     
    Completely dry and a fine light grey colour .. better than the Haynes
    manual shows .... or as good!
    
    >I had a problem once when I lined up all the gaps in the rings before
    >fitting the piston in the bore. It looked nice, but burnt quite
    >a bit of oil! But I can't believe you've done that on two cylinders.
     
    This is not qiote a bit .. this is real instant fog stuff!  But like
    you I can't see why only 2 and 3 would suffer.
    
    >If you're certain that 1+4 are absolutely ok and the smoke is blue
    >(like the air, I imagine :-)) I think you'll have to look at the
    >head/gasket. Good luck!

    Yup absolutely okay!
    
>    Another thought : On the 1098 MG engine, the head was a "12G295" and
>    was not a standard A-series head as fitted to Minors, 1100s etc... this
>    one had bigger inlet valves and maybe(?) bigger exhaust valves as well
>    other differences. The 'pattern spare' head gasket sets available from
>    all lousy motor parts shops used to be cut to accept all head/block
>    combinations (they had more holes than a string vest). When you take
>    the head off, it would be worth checking that the gasket has holes in
>    the right places for both the block and the head.... and that the holes
>    in the head match those in block. 
    
    Well we got the new copper head gasket from Cafco (in bracknell) who
    are pretty reputable suppliers of this type off stuff, but you can
    never really tell, next time, I'll take a look at it.
    
    
    Here's a question for A series boffs .... when you fill the engine with
    oil at the rocker box ..... how does the oil get into the sump .... I
    couldn't work out where it drained down .... is it thoughthe push rod
    wholes ???
    
    Steve (Nova driver from hell .... at least till the MG gets going)
    

    Different A series engines had different breathing systems. Minis for
    example, usually had a sealed system whereby the engine "ate" it's own
    fumes. This was usually fed through a separator which could
    occasionally block and cause rough idling.
    
    The spridgets, and the moggy as I recall, had crankcase breathers that
    either went to the open air, or into the carbs. On my Frogeye, I
    replaced the carb version with an open-air one, and things definitely
    got better.
    
    As regards head-gaskets, he's quite right, but the copper one sounds
    about right to me. The oil from the head does indeed drain down through
    the pushrod holes. There are also some others and I believe there is a
    special one at the rear on high performance heads. The wrong gasket
    will not utilise this hole. when you remove your head, look for an
    obvious place where there's a circle of oil either side. Even a small
    hole here will help.
    
    It's the draining through the pushrod holes that's causing me problems.
    My head was ported so much that the ports now have a pushrod through
    the middle. Given that the oil drains through here, these have been
    sleeved. I believe that the inner diameter of the sleeving is too small
    and is restricting the flow.
    
    I read in this month's Practical Classics that it's possible to fit
    special 1300 (as in Austin 11/1300) valve seals on top of the ordinary
    little ones, even on a double valve spring head such as mine. Seals are
    really only required on the inlet vavlves, and when I get my head off
    later this winter, I'll see about fitting such seals.
    
    Laurie.

    
    This may sound out of step with the other replies, but have you 
    considered the possibility that substantial quantities of oil
    may have collected in the exhaust system?  I know that oil in
    the exhaust system can produce dense smoke, because I once tried
    putting some into a motorcycle exhaust for a laugh :-)
    
    This would imply leakage via the exhaust valve guides or some other
    source.  The oily pistons may be a symptom of a separate problem (?) To 
    check out, presumably you could remove the exhaust and upend it watching for
    trickles (or deluges!) of semi-burnt oil.  (Don't wear your best
    clothes ;-)
    
    The only reason I even considered this was that I think you said the engine
    runs without smoke when initially cold, but smokescreens when warmed up,
    consistent with a rise in exhaust temp.
    
    Feel free to ridicule this notion, I aint a mechanic by any stretch of
    the imagination !
    
    Graham Warnes

    Re .-1
    
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha
    
    
    Thats exactly what we thought at first (having loaded the cylinders
    with redex before starting the engine for the first time)! 8^)
    
    When we removed the head last weekend, with manifold still attached, 
    there was alot of oil in the exhuast manifold .... it trickled and
    dripped out .... left a little puddle of oil on the garage floor.
    
    So this kind of indicates that it is not in the exhaust but before
    this!
    
        
>    This would imply leakage via the exhaust valve guides or some other
>    source.  The oily pistons may be a symptom of a separate problem (?) 
    
    Well could be exhaust valves .... combined with a flooded rocker area.
    
    ..or anything???????
    
    Cheers
    
    Steve (also by no means a mechanic)

Are you SURE this is oil, and not petrol dripping out of the manifold ???

Are cylinders 2 and 3 firing ? Is there a spark ???

    
>>Are you SURE this is oil, and not petrol dripping out of the manifold ???
    
    Well its very black and slippery and smells like oil, so yup , I would
    say that its oil! ;^)

>>Are cylinders 2 and 3 firing ? Is there a spark ???
    
    Its hard to tell, but yes there is a spark, and it did seem as though
    all 4 pots were firing whilst it chucked out that instant fog stuff,
    but I could be wrong.
    
    Steve
    
    
    

...and did you try swapping plug leads 2 and 3 ???

    What I want to know, is have you done all the things we suggested ages
    ago, like seeing if the head's true, etc....
    
    Laurie.

    
    re -2
    
    No we didn't try this .
    
    Re .-1
    
    No havn't done this either ... should be looking at it next week.
    
    Steve

    
    
    OK, I've got this plan......
    
    ....the next UK_CARS get-together should be round at Steve's place.....
    
    Between us we should be able to frighten this poor thing into behaving
    itself.....!!
    
    
    Seriously (oh, all right, but only for a minute), Steve, if you want a
    hand, gimme a shout, I'll come and help you be confused.
    
    Ian
    
    

     Well finally got to look at the engine again, and this time with the
    engineer who helped do the rebuild.
    
    
    We first checked out the statis timing again .... rotar blade points to
    lead 1 when cylinder 1 is at the firing phase etc etc.
    
    Checked out perfectly.
    
    Engineer was baffled!
    
    Checked out compression ratios when cold and hot.
    
    cold: 140 140 125 140
    
    Hot:  170 165 135 165
    
    Engineer starts to swear.
    
    Run engine with rocker cover off.
    
    Engineer starts to kick things.
    
    So the command was given "Off with its head!"
    
    Now the engine has got worse ... all four cylinders were burning oil
    not just 2 and 3.
    
    Thing was, it runs beautifully!!!!  How I don't know ... but it does!
    
    Checked that the head gasket was good, all holes align on head and
    block.
    
    Noticed a rather large amount of oil on the block but discounted it.
    
    Checked that the block was flat ... no problem.
    
    Then I asked whether the head had been checked during the rebuild
    ...."errmmm well of course I always check the head ... urmmm  .. well
    usually I do, but I don't remeber doing so this time .. I mean a cast
    iron head on a A series never ... do they?"
    
    Checked it out with a ruler and from cylinder 1 to 4, the thing is
    shaped like a railway bridge!
    
    Its a 7 thou gap when a strait ruler is placed along the thing.
    
    So .1 of this topic hit it on the head (sorry for the pun!)
    
    So my next question:
    
    Anybody know any reasonable engineering firms that will skim an A
    series head?
    
    Does the valve gear have to be removed to do this?
    
    Cheers for all the help .... should be too long and the engine should
    be back together and running ... PROPERLY.
    
    Then all I have to do is try to work out how to unseeze the clutch
    without removing the engine!
    
    Anyone got any good ideas?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Steve

    
    Roe Engineering in Fleet seem ok, but I've not got around to starting
    the Marcos up yet so I won't give them an unreserved thumbs up.
    
    However skimming a head is VERY simple, just check engine
    reconditioners in the yellow pages and a dozen within easy driving
    range will appear.
    
    Mark

RE: <<< Note 1598.62 by IOSG::FREER "Three spellings short of a dictionary? .." >>>
�                       -< A solution  ..... me thinks! >-

    I'm glad you've got things sorted out at last.
    
�    Anybody know any reasonable engineering firms that will skim an A
�    series head?
    
    Yes, but nowhere near Reading! Mark's right, it's not exactly a tough
    job...
    
�    Does the valve gear have to be removed to do this?
    
    Yes, and in any event, as I pointed out in an earlier note, excessive
    oil burning causes carbon, which wastes no time trashing your valve
    seats. I'd strongly recommend that you check them carefully.
    
    7thou is quite a lot. I'd suggest you check with your engineer mate
    what the effect will be on your compression ratio; it may not be the
    first time the head has been skimmed. If it's a "virgin", 7thou should
    be ok.
    
�    Then all I have to do is try to work out how to unseeze the clutch
�    without removing the engine!
    
    Two ways I know of:
    
    Start it in gear. Sometimes, for a really sticky one, you need to jack
    the back up and warm the engine first. Then, put the back wheels back
    on the ground, and turn the key. Usually this will "bang" the clutch
    free. Otherwise, tow it off with something powerful. Make sure the rope
    is tight, that the back wheels are on good ground, ie. not mud or stones,
    put yer foot on the clutch (pump it a couple of times) and welly the
    towing vehicle. If both those methods fail.... well, looks like an
    engine out job. However, it's only very rarely those methods do fail.
    
    Laurie.

    
    Thanks for ideas about the clutch.
    
    Best price quoted for the head skim was 17 quid + VAT from a place in
    Bracknell.
    
    Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a bleed nipple with a one
    way valve.
    
    After spending half an hour attempting to bleed the slave clutch
    cylinder under the car, with arms and fingers going through the most
    rediculous bends and gaps, I was wondering if there is any easy way
    around the old problem of fitting a tube over the nipple, whilst
    attempting to loosen and tighten the nipple, whilst your assistant
    pumps the peddle and squirts hydraulic oil in your face?
    
    
    Steve

    	Get hold of an Easybleed. This is a system that pushes fluid
    through the hydraulic system using the pressure from a spare tyre. It
    refils the master cylinder from it's own bottle of fluid. You connect
    it up to the master cylinder, connect a piece of pipe to the the slave,
    into a jam jar, open the bleed nipple a bit and away it goes till all
    the air is out. Very simple and quick in comparison.
    
    	You can buy one for �10 - 12 or so, or there should be someone you
    can borrow from somewhere.

    Have you thought about an Eezibleed kit?
    
    Mel

    I had a remote bleed nipple fitted to my Frogeye, since it is literally
    impossible to get to the slave cylinder. Whilst you have the engine
    out, I'd suggest you do the same. It makes life *so* much easier....
    
    Laurie.

	I tried easy-bleed (or whatever).  I wasn't too happy with it.  I've
	now got non-return valves in my nipples.  This works very well.

	Dave

    
    The Frogeye has the same location for the slave as the Midget doesn't
    it?
    
    If it does, it isn't impossible ... just bl**dy near impossible ... it
    took me 30 minutes to get a semi-bleed done.
    
    How do you mean a "remote bleed nipple"?
    
    Is this a bit of brake pipe screwed into the original nipple hole with
    a nipple on the end of it.
    
    I think I would prefer the one way valve nipple idea ... anyone know
    where to get them from????
    
    Steve

RE: <<< Note 1598.70 by IOSG::FREER "Three spellings short of a dictionary? .." >>>
    
�    The Frogeye has the same location for the slave as the Midget doesn't
�    it?
    
    Yes, but I have a separate, space-frame chassis on mine, and a 5-speed
    gearbox. I assure you, it is completely impossible.
    
�    How do you mean a "remote bleed nipple"?
�    Is this a bit of brake pipe screwed into the original nipple hole with
�    a nipple on the end of it.
    
    Effectively yes. It's a piece of see-thru red brake pipe, properly
    mated to/screwed into, the slave cylinder, and running vertically
    (pretty well) from there to a point about level with the rockerbox. On
    the end is a normal nipple, from which you bleed the air in the normal
    manner. This has an added advantage that air rises in the pipe, can be
    seen easily, and is easy to bleed out. Access, is a dream.
    
�    I think I would prefer the one way valve nipple idea ... anyone know
�    where to get them from????
    
    One of these still presents you with the problem of access.... Perhaps
    a combination of the two? I have no idea where you would get one from,
    sorry.
    
    Laurie.

    
    Local to Reading you could try CAFCO automotive - near DEC Park. I've
    always found them to be very helpful. 
    
    Merlin Mailorder at Castle Coombe keep a lot of brake parts for 'diy'
    systems, they are very good, and orders normally arrive next day. 
    
    I've got CAFCO's number somewhere, but I think you'll have to try
    directory enquiries for Merlin.
    
    Elaine
    

    
    Les Smith's sell these one-way bleed nipples I believe.
    
    Mark

    
    Cheers!
    
    Will look into this pretty soon, then once the engine is back together,
    maybe I'll be able to get the car to move under its own steam for 5
    years!
    
    Steve

    
    Doom gloom and more gloom!!!
    
    Probably due to the fact that the sun couldn't get through the fog of
    oil the engine produced AGAIN!
    
    So it wasn't the head warped which caused this!! 
    
    AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    What to do now????
    
    It looks like its take it to pieces time again!
    
    Any other suggestion .. anything ... just something!
    
    

    Did you also check that the deck of the block was level ?
    Or that any of the head bolts might have bottomed out and
    therefore not been torqued down correctly ?
    
    Maybe that was why the head got warped last time round...
    
    J.R.

    
>    Did you also check that the deck of the block was level ?
    
    As a table!
    
>    Or that any of the head bolts might have bottomed out and
>    therefore not been torqued down correctly ?
    
    All right down unfortunately!
    
    So that's not the problem.
    
    Steve

>>    So that's not the problem.
    
    You sure have an awkward problem here then !
    Can you sum up in a single note what happened and what was done...
    
    Then we can all suggest the checks that have been listed before !
    
    
    Did you determine that the oil is not coming through the PCV hoses etc ?
    
    Do you know just which cylinders are burning the oil (plug condition).
    Is this the same as before the latest strip-down + reassembly ?
    
    Was there anything at all indicative on the head/ports/manifolds to
    show where the oil may be coming from ?  Is it definitely burning oil ?
    
    J.R.

    Is it possible to run the vehicle for a couple of miles legally /
    illegally, in the past when I've rebuilt engines they've always smoked
    like trains for a couple of miles down the road. I guess its just
    burning off all the oil used in the rebuild.
    
    Failing that it sounds like you've tried everything, have you checked
    the condition of the oil rings since the rebuild, did they fit well and
    not give you any grief when you tried to fit the pistons back into the
    block ?
    
    Dont give up on it, and good luck.
    
    
    Andy

    
    Well we gave up on it, and asked for some proffesional help!
    
    The MG is now in the garage getting checked out and when fixed (if)
    then gets its MOT.
    
    I'll let you all know what the results are.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Steve

    
    Results!
    
    Apparantly the engine is fixed!!!!
    
    It always was!!!
    
    Apparantly, the carbaretter was missing a special one way valve (shaped
    like a mushroom) which was held in between the crank breather, and the
    manifold!!!
    
    Addition of this little item saw the oil problem cured!
    
    I say apparantly, cos I havn't seen the car today, though its meant to
    be getting its MOT today .. so its got to pass the visible smoke test!
    
    Thanks for everyone in this conference for offering help on this topic
    (from my dad too!), but I think you'll have to conceed that the
    A-Series engine one that one! ;^)
    
    Cheers, and looking forward to some happy Midget driving,
    
    Steve

RE: <<< Note 1598.81 by IOSG::FREER "Three spellings short of a dictionary? .." >>>
    
    Steve,
    
    I'm glad to hear you fixed the problem.
    
    What sort of carb have you got? I too have a problem with oil getting
    into the combustion chambers, and I've run out of ideas, aside from
    whipping the head off, and getting the face checked. Maybe this is an
    idea worth considering. I've always been suspicious of the way the
    breathing was set up, and looking at the way the rest of the engine was
    constructed, this may well be part of the problem.
    
    Laurie.

    
>    What sort of carb have you got? I too have a problem with oil getting
>    into the combustion chambers, and I've run out of ideas, aside from
>    whipping the head off, and getting the face checked. Maybe this is an
>    idea worth considering. I've always been suspicious of the way the
>    breathing was set up, and looking at the way the rest of the engine was
>    constructed, this may well be part of the problem.
    
    You could always go the USA type system which had a oil condensor from
    the Crank case breather.
    
    The carbs on the Midget are HS3's (I think .. not totally sure).
    
    On my old '74 midget, the crank crase breather pipe split into two
    smaller pipes which went onto small little stubs on the actual carb
    bodies.
    
    On the '67 midget, the crank case breather pipe goes directly to the
    inlet manifold (via the one way valve mushroom thingy).
    
    How is it on your sprite?
    
    Steve
    

RE: <<< Note 1598.83 by IOSG::FREER "Three spellings short of a dictionary? .." >>>
    
�                        -< Could be a bent head thou! >-
    
    Don't, I realise that, I've checked everything else. When I rebuilt the
    engine, I had to scrap the block. The head was re-assembled, as it had
    been, in my opinion, assembled by a blind man with neither thumbs, nor
    mechanical ability. The one thing I didn't do, was to check the face
    for "true". The oil seems to build up while it's ticking over. Pulling
    away from lights etc. gives me a nasty oily smoke for a few yards.
    This, I'm afraid, points to the head, either wear on the valve
    stems/seals, of perhaps the face is bowed. Given the way the rocker
    assembly had been assembled, it could be valve stem wear.
    
    One theory we did come up with, was excessive oil in the rocker box, ie
    it wasn't draining as it should. The ports have been opened out so much
    that the pushrods had to be sleeved, since they now run through the
    middle of the inlets! It seems possible that the oil needs to run past
    them a little more freely. As with everything else, I'm trying to
    eliminate the simple problems before I start stripping things down.

>    What sort of carb have you got? I too have a problem with oil getting
>    into the combustion chambers, and I've run out of ideas, aside from
>    whipping the head off, and getting the face checked. Maybe this is an
>    idea worth considering. I've always been suspicious of the way the
>    breathing was set up, and looking at the way the rest of the engine was
>    constructed, this may well be part of the problem.
    
�    You could always go the USA type system which had a oil condensor from
�    the Crank case breather.
    
    I have already added a crankcase breather, the engine daesn't seem to
    breath much down there, certainly not a problem.
    
�    On my old '74 midget, the crank crase breather pipe split into two
�    smaller pipes which went onto small little stubs on the actual carb
�    bodies.
�    
�    On the '67 midget, the crank case breather pipe goes directly to the
�    inlet manifold (via the one way valve mushroom thingy).
    
    Are you sure you mean crankcase breather? Sounds more like the
    rockerbox breather. I have one of those too, but the induction is so
    strong on my Frogeye that I became convinced it was sucking oil
    straight into the engine! So, I blanked off that breather at both ends.
    It didn't seem to help stop the smoking. Removing the rocker cap shows
    that the engine isn't breathing too badly there, certainly not to
    excess. I have only one carb fitted, an HS6, and the breather went from
    the rockerbox, straight to the inlet manifold. I don't have a one-way
    mushroom thingy! Could you possibly get me a part number and/or a
    source? I'm back in the UK this weekend (first time in over 3 months)
    and I'd like to get one. Mail-order will do, or a Leyland/Rover part
    number would be fine. Seems to me, that this is an avenue worth
    exploring, and I'd like to bring one back with me on Sunday.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

1275 Midget carbs are HS2's. Unless those in England were different.

-Al

    Well, in the interest of efficiency, and not least the avoidance of the
    pain of re-balancing twin SUs, I've got a single HS6 fitted to my
    Frogeye. It certainly does the job...
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. I think you're right, they were HS2s

	As the noter who suggested the Carbs (.43) and was roundly 
	lambasted for such a silly suggestion I feel jolly pleased.

	-John_I_told_you_so_Lincoln

    
>	As the noter who suggested the Carbs (.43) and was roundly 
>	lambasted for such a silly suggestion I feel jolly pleased.
    
    Oh I hate know it alls! ;^)
    
    Steve.
    
    PS. But I think you were right about why 2 &3 got oily first, then when
    the car had been run for longer 1 and 4 also.
    
    The inlet ports have a shorter run to 2 & 3 than 1 & 4, so for a short
    run, only 2 &3 oiled up.
    
    Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!

    Ahhh, but it wasn't the carbs, it was the breathing.... ;^)
    
    Howsabout that part number/source? Failing that, a detailed
    description, including dimensions. PLEASE.
    
    Laurie.

    RE: -1
    
    Pretty, pretty, please. I leave for the UK in 5 hours.......
    
    Laurie.

    
    Okay phoned Mg Spares & Services in Reading (Beech Hill).
    
    Part number is 13H5191
    
    Cost is 24 pounds
    
    They don't have any in stock .... and they are no longer available.
    
    Might be worth trying Richardsons (the MG scrap yard)
    
    Sorry I can't be more helpful.
    
    Steve
    

    Thanks.
    
    I think I know the thing you mean. MGBs had them, and Maxis too as I
    recall. It's a little black thing, about 2 inches across, with a wire
    across the top holding the diaphragm in. It bolts to the manifold, and
    the breather goes straight into it.
    
    If it has cured your problem, I'm somewhat surprised, as the only
    effect I thought they has was on deceleration. The vacuum caused
    overcomes the spring and valve, and stops the "fumes" entering the
    engine. Thus, on acceleration, there isn't a load of crap in there to
    clear before pulling away again. However, it's worth a try, especially
    since I've already got one at home in England somewhere!
    
    Am I correct?
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS 24 squid is a lot of money.....

    
    Yes you are correct in every way!
    
    Apparantly it stops the carb from sucking oil from the breather into
    the carbs .... dunno how .. still havn't seen the car yet.
    
    It failed its MOT on a dodgey indicator, which was working when we left
    the car at the garage .. oh, and a low oil level in the brake master
    recevoir.
    
    Annoying, but these things are sent to try us! 8^)
    
    Steve

    
    Thanks again to everyone in this notes file.
    
    On Saturday the Midget passed its MOT and we had our first journey in
    it.
    
    Mind you keeping the revs low for running in purposes is a real pain
    ... but hopefully it will pay off for the future.
    
    Thanks again!
    
    Steve

Hi,

  I was wondering does anyone out there know whether the 
engine block is the same in the transverse BL a-series
engines as in the in_line ones ie can I use the same block
in either? eq. Is 1275GT Mini block interchangable with
1275 MG Midget or Sprite block??
(Isuspect that the back main bearing cap assembly is different
  I know that the clutch end of the crank is!).
Thanks,

    Brian.

    You're right. It's not the same.
    
    Richard.

    
    I think the heads are interchangable, but not the blocks.  The oil
    filter positioning is usually a giveaway if you're not sure where the
    engine came from.  The transverse ones have it hanging down on the
    right hands side of the engine (near alternator) the others have it on
    the left hand side and pointing upwards and towards you at around 45
    degrees.
    
    (Or is that the B series?)
    
    Ian
    

re -2 Why exactly???

re -1 The inline engine you describe is the later
      1.3 'A series' as fitted in the Marina
      THe earlier inline engines have the oil filter
       under the dynamo/alternator similar to the transverse ones
      (This is in fact why I am asking this question
       A Marina  engine wont fit into a midget
       easily because of that oil filter pointing upwards)

Cheers,
Brian.
    

    I've put an 'A' series engine based on a Marina 1300 block in my
    Healey Frogeye. It fits a treat. I've fitted a Fiesta oil filter (I
    think), which has the requisite valve to stop the oil draining from it
    when the engine's stopped, and is short (about 4" maybe 5").
    
    Re-measure, I think you'll find it'll fit.
    
    Laurie.

Re 99

Thats Very Useful information!!
Unfortunately for me I just bought a 1972 Midget 1275
engine LAST NIGHT!!! If I had asked this question a few
weeks ago (and I had intended to) your reply would have saved 
a few quid!! However I'll remember that for future reference

Thanks.

Brian.

    More questions!!
    
    Now that I have got my 1275cc engine (see -1) It is a later A series
    than I am used to working on. 
    I notice that now the head studs have a small drill hole in the top
    as distinct from the older engines which have a plain topped studs.
    
    ---- My query is : Should these studs be torqued to 50lbft as distinct 
                       from 42lbft for the older ones???????
    
    Thanksinadvance
        Brian.