Conference terri::cars_uk

    The styling is similar to the old Civic but with a drop-down rear hatch
    a'la Range Rover (Don't know the technical term).
    
    The car was displayed at Frankfurt.
    
    There are articles / info in this weeks Autocar + this months CAR /
    Performance CAR.
    
    Can't remember all the details but its something like this (Could be
    wrong)
    
    Most of the engines are VTEC but with the accent on economy not
    performance. (>100 mpg @35mph!). Though the top-of-the-range model will
    have performance VTEC. Unknows which models will make it to our shores
    yet.
    
    The cars are slightly longer (3 inches ?) putting them in the Escort
    class.
    
    Prices are expected to be similar to the current models.
    
    No info. on the forth comming mid engine CRX :-(

    Read in s mag somewhere that top Civic will have VTEC 1595cc and
    delivering a whopping 170BHP if thats not going to top the hot hatch
    brigade what is???????
    
    
    Regards Martin

	Thanks to .1 I have had a quick look at the A&M and Car articles.
	Both are very short but do contain interesting detail.

	The styling is considerably changed from the current model
	and to my mind looks quite good in the artists impressions
	in Car but not so good in the actual car photo in A&M. Only
	an in the metal inspection will really tell though.

	There will be as many as four engines in the new range, the
	most interesting of which are the top performance version
	with 158bhp from 1.6 litres (a new record for specific power
	output in a production car, presumably taken from the current
	1.6i which gives 150bhp).

	More popular is likely to be the 1.5 lean burn economy version
	with 94bhp. This is the one that provides over 100mpg at 36mph
	and, I would estimate, sub 10sec 0-60 too.

	The interiors too are completely revised.

	I will be watching this with interest as it's car changing time
	for me and the Civic is at present top of the list in either
	current or new form.

	The Civic has changed beyond recognition in it's 15 year or so
	life. The earliest cars were ugly, basic things suitable only
	for town work (hence the name), now it's probably the best 
	equipped, best engineered and most advanced car of it's type.
	It's also the most expensive.

	-John

>	with 158bhp from 1.6 litres (a new record for specific power
>	output in a production car, presumably taken from the current
>	1.6i which gives 150bhp).

read in the current 'Car' about new Toyota 1.6 five valve per cylinder
engines producing 170bhp - powering the new camry or whtever their Escort sized
car is called


...art

    
    The VTEC cars are actually sold as having 150bhp @ 7600rpm, but
    according to GTI Engineering and two independant Honda dealers
    the VTEC CRX produces 160bhp @8000rpm, and as the car revs well
    past 8000rpm and still pulls, so I tend to believe them, The VTECs	
    which they import from Japan have them same engine but the brain
    is slightly modified to produce 170bhp.
    
    There is a Mid-engined CRX due out next year with the 170bhp engine
    its just a shame the catalyst sap 30+bhp and makes the car smell
    like you had a chicken byriani the night before

    Has anyone any idea when next year the CRX is due out & if its possible
    to fit a ``non-cat'' exhaust to get the 30 bhp back ?
    
    	Rik

�    to fit a ``non-cat'' exhaust to get the 30 bhp back ?
    
    That's a crime !!!  If it's fitted, it should stay there,
    leaving you the problem of finding extra power in some other way...
    
    J.R.

    
    Is it?
    
    Mark

	The loss of power to a catalytic convertor is mainly (I'm pretty
	sure) because the engine is programmed to suit emission control
	and not power or efficiency. It wouldn't be necessary to fit a new
	exhaust to regain lost power just to reprogram the controls.

	Anyway I saw the new Civics at MotorFair and have read the article
	in the current A & M which road tests most versions. My impression 
	is somewhat mixed, the car seeming to get worse as you go from 
	front to back -

	The front has been remodelled a la CRX and I like the new shape,
	but bemoan the colour coded bumpers(I've never liked colour coding)
.
	Under the bonnet it's the most advanced engineering you'll see
	anywhere and very neatly done, without undue crowding.

	The interior, which is more spacious of course, has also been 
	lightened up by the use of lighter colours, particularly a mid-grey
	rather than dark-grey dashboard/scuttle (this is a trend on other 
	new cars too). Most of this I like but there are odd things in the
	dashboard area I don't enthuse about.

	Sunroofs may� have gone to metal from glass Yuk!. Just what is the
	point of a metal sunroof, they ought to be called windroofs.

	But at the back it's not so good. I don't like the rather bulbous
	styling much and this two piece hatchback thing is just a nuisance.

	The road tests speak highly of the exitement from the VTEC but are
	critical of engine noise levels on most models. When I test drove
	a current model I too noticed the engine noise but it has to said
	that it's mainly noticeable because there doesn't seem to be any
	other noise. Overall the car I drove was quiet, but they could
	perhaps improve this.

	The VEi model, thats the VTEC used to achieve economy version, has
	not been released to journalists yet. Mysterious. With 42.2 urban
	cycle, 0-60 in 10secs this is new ground in the performance/economy
	league and I'd like to hear more.

	-John

	� They're going to send me some brochures before release on Nov 22,
	or so they said anyway.

    
    re .last
    
    I thought the current Civic and CRX had the same front ends?
    
    Richard.

�    I thought the current Civic and CRX had the same front ends?
    
    No the front ends are diffent but in the same vein. If you see them
    next to each other then the difference is obvious. The Civic also has 3
    different bonnets depending on the engine with either no ``bumps''
    (1.4l), a single bump for the cam-cover (1.6i) or the entier bonnet
    raised VTEC.
    
    	Rik
    
    PS Rut is it illegal to remove the cat from a car ? Can't see you
    objecting on enviromental grounds - not with the cars(?) you drive, not
    to mention the baseball bats)

�    PS Rut is it illegal to remove the cat from a car ? Can't see you
�    objecting on enviromental grounds - not with the cars(?) you drive, not
�    to mention the baseball bats)
    
    No idea if it is technically illegal, but it is morally wrong.
    
    With some of the recent replies under kit car topic, it seems that
    it may be a requirement for [new] cars to have cats fitted, but I
    didn't read those replies in too much detail.
    
    I only 'sort of' object on environmental grounds, since I am not
    convinced that using cat. converters is the best solution.  My opinion
    is that if it is fitted on a car as standard, you shouldn't really
    remove it.  I also doubt that the cat alone is costing 30 bhp.
    
    I prefer to see engine power (especially torque) increased by other
    means - remembering the old adage 'there's no substitute for cubes' !!!
    
    Whether the driver having a square head helps or not, I've no idea...
    
    All this frigging about with cam timing to increase top end power
    seems to be a bit of an overcomplication for a fast shopping car.
    I mean, everyone knows that forced induction gives better gains,
    or that a larger engine capacity will lead to more power/torque.
    
    V-TEC ideas may be alright for Senna's form of transport, but I think
    it should be renamed as 'OTT' (technically) in little Hondas.
    
    J.R.

    John,
    
    Don't let Derek hear you say that! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    PS I'm with you on this, though. High revving, peaky engines have no 
    place in road cars.
    
    
    

	I'm also not a fan of screaming engines as readers of my 
	previous notes might remember. Apart from the general fussiness
	of the thing the wear rate will be multiplied enormously with
	distinct detriment to long life.

	Ideally my idea of a small road car would be one powered by
	a relatively large capacity, all aluminium, smooth running 
	engine  which didn't really rev above 5000rpm and was 
	configured to produce lots of torque. It would cruise at 
	30mph/1000 rpm or more thus being both quiet and fuel 
	efficient but still tolerably quick. Something akin to a 2 
	litre V6 perhaps.

	The VEi civic is a step in this direction. In this the VTEC
	is used in reverse of the 'normal' manner. At high revs the
	engine operates normally, but at low revs the smaller of the
	two inlet valves is not actuated. This results in a very large
	amount of swirl with consequent improved combustion and efficiency.
	The engine generally is accented towards high torque and low
	revs in comparison with the normal 1.5, having 10% more torque
	at much lower revs and a lower peak power level too.

	-John

Re: various

If a vehicle is supplied new with catalytic converter fitted it will soon 
be illegal under the Construction and Use Regulations to remove it or do
anything to reduce its effectiveness.  Catalytic converters are fitted to
meet the emission control regulations.  From 1st January 1992 all new
models are effectively required by these regulations to have catalytic
converters and this will apply to all new cars first registered after 1st
January 1993. 

It may be legal to remove a converter from an older car, but only if after
doing so the car meets the emission control regulations applicable on the
date it was first registered.  Most cars with catalytic coverters are tuned
differently from cars without so that the converter will work effectively 
and will probably fail the emissions standards without it.

jb

    Anyone got (or driven) one of these VTEC wonders yet, then?
    
    Fast Lane this month has a test of the 3-door hatch: it sounds a great
    machine. Not sure I could live with the noise, but the engine sounds a
    gem. The performance/economy balance sounds really good, but why fit it
    with a piddly 9.9 gallon tank?
    
    I'd be interested in this car, as there is a 4-door saloon variant as
    well -- can't live with the small hatch...
    
    
    
    Stephen

    I have been driving Si (108hp) since 1989 and about to order a 1992 Si.
    I was hoping that DOHC VTEC 170hp engine to be sold here in Canada this
    year (sold in Japan since 1989, Civic and CRX SiR's were the first cars
    with VTEC engine, even befor NSX). But Honda marketting people seem to
    think that it's too good for North Americans and still selling SOHC
    version of VTEC engine with 125hp. ACURA Integra GSR got DOHC VTEC but
    I am not willing to pay CDN $8,000.00 more only for the name (Integra
    is basicly the same car as Civic underneath the skin).
    
    Anybody (in North America) drive '92 Si?    How is it ?????
    
    Mitz
    

    I've got a 92 SOHC VTEC @123HP. It's fast enough not to be boring and
    can average 40MPG in normal use. I wonder why Honda don't spec out the
    performance in their handbook that comes with the car. I'm trying to
    work out at what RPM the pin locks in the high profile cam lobe. Don't
    ask how much a Honda workshop manual is (120 pounds in the UK) 

     Honda Catalogue  (printed in Canada) says.....
    
    Civic EX-V and Si are given a 1.6 liter, 125-horsepower, Multi-Point
    Programed Fuel Injected engine.  Unlike otherhigh-specific-output
    engines, the EX-V/Si engine boasts outstanding power with excellent
    fuel efficiency.  The engine's Variable Valve Timing System helps
    extract full power from its 4-valve combustion chamber, yet promotes
    efficient use of fuel resulting in lower emissions.  This system uses
    two different intake valve timing systems to ensure smooth power
    delivery with economical efficiency at all engine speeds.
     At low rpm, one set of camshaft lobes controls intake valve timing to
    produce optimum low-speed power and torque.  As engine speed increases
    to around 5000-5500 rpm, the intake valves are connected to a separate,
    high-rpm camshaft lobe.  This camshaft lobe opens the valves farther
    andkeeps them open longer, ensuring maximum high-rpm power.  
     The Variable Valve Timing System makes the Civic EX-V/Si engine
    extremely flexible, with strong, smooth acceleration from idle to
    engine redline.
    
    Mitz

   			 '91 - '92  CAR OF THE YEAR (Japan)
                        ===================================
    
    	 	1	HONDA 		CIVIC 			278 Points
                2	MAZDA 		RX-7			196 Points
    		3	HONDA 		BEAT			 92 Points
    		4	MITSUBISHI 	PAJERO
    		5	NISSAN 		BLUEBIRD
    		6	TOYOTA 		CROWN
    		7	SUZUKI 		CAPPUCCINO
    		8	SUBARU 		ALCYONE SVX
    		9	TOYOTA 		COROLLA/SPRINTER
               10	MITSUBISHI 	MIRAGE/LANCER (1.6 liter DOHC V6 24V!)
    
Any comments?????
    
    Mitz    	
    

A bit like the JAP awards!

No mention of the Citroen Volcane, Renault Clio, Volkswagen Golf, BMW 3
Series and other fine cars.

Mark.

I think you'll find that only cars built in Japan are eligible.

    
    Just as Japanese cars are excluded from European Car of the year!
    
    Mark

    RE .21 .22
    
    Japanese Car Of The Year is only for domestic cars only.
    For European cars, they highly respect European Car Of The Year.
    
    Mitz

    One of car mag in Japan tested the lean burn Honda VTEC-E(Civic ETi)
    for fuel consumption.  Report says Civic did very well on the highway
    but only so-so around town.
    Here are the figures:		
    
    			Average:			5.74 liter/100 Km
    	
    			100Km/h cruising:		4.26 liter/100 Km
    
    			130Km/h cruising:		4.36 liter/100 Km
    
    			City (in traffic jam):		8.94 liter/100 Km
    
    			West - East across Tokyo:	5.91 liter/100 Km
    
    Mitz

    
    re -1:
    
    Sounds amazing! How reliable is the test? Maybe it has been made under
    perfect conditions.
    
    
    Hannu

    Converted to MPG...
    
    Average:				5.74 liter/100 Km	49.28 mpg
    	
    100Km/h (62mph) cruising:		4.26 liter/100 Km	66.26 mpg
    
    130Km/h (80mph) cruising:		4.36 liter/100 Km	64.74 mpg
    
    City (in traffic jam):		8.94 liter/100 Km	31.68 mpg
    
    West - East across Tokyo:		5.91 liter/100 Km 	47.76 mpg
    
    Roy

    re .26
    
    I trust this test result.  I have been reading this mag (CAR GRAPHIC)
    for 18 years and convinced that their test data is very accurate. 
    Believe me if they say "traffic jam", it will be real bad one, may be
    nobody in Europe ever experienced.  Road/traffic condition both city 
    and highway is just unbelievablly bad. 
    
    Mitz
    

    
    Has anybody seen or had a test drive of the new Prelude ?
    
    I saw a bit on TOp Gear about it a couple of weeks ago in a comparisno
    with a 325 BMW. Came off quite well if I can remember. A whole lot
    cheaper with a whole lot more standard gizmos.
    
    If the car tax situation changes methinks the 2.3 is worth a look.
    
    Rich
    

Yeh I had a look at the Prelude, before it was released. Seems very
nice from the pictures etc. Very good spec, with air bags etc on the
higher models. I should imagine Honda have a few test drive cars
around, there's one around here, with the name of the garage and "new
Prelude" slapped all over it !

Greg

    I took a 2.3i Prelude out for a drive last week and as a result of
    which have ordered one�. I could go on for ages about how good it is
    but sufficent to say I think it is a revolution in Coup� design.
    
    	- Wonderfull free reving Honda engine
    	- 4 wheel steering, yes you can tell and it's good.
    	- Nice erganomics (But I like the Honda layout).
    	- Safe: Air bag, ABS, ...
    	- Looks the part.
    	- Economical (35 mpg +)
    
    		Rik
    
    And the salesman at the shop let me have a good look round his silver
    NSX - better lokking, constructed, safer, faster than a Ferrari.
    �Cost about 2100-00

    I chenged 1989 Civic Si with 1992 model in March.
    I am very happy with the car itself(improved a lot) but "NOT" happy
    with my Honda dealer.
    
    	ie..	- I ordered a car in middle of February, Honda was planning
    		  price increase on 15th/March and I had to pay new price.
    
    		- Received car on 19th/March, driver side door had a foot
    		  long dent on it. Salesman didn't notice it, atleast he
    		  said he did not know about it.
    
    		- Dealer took car back to fix door dent, dent is gone but
    		  door panel is wavy now.
    
    		- Dealer asked me to bring car back to check wavy door, so
    	   	  I did.  I asked to do 3000km check at same time.
    		  Now my bonnet has two little dimples.
    
    		- Dealer attempted to fix door for 2nd time, car came back
    		  with wavy door and small dents around door handle.
    		  Dimples on the bonnet are still there too.
    
    		- My car is going back to dealer tomorrow to fix driver
    		  side door for 3rd time. 
    
    A quite few Honda owners around me are not too happy with Honda dealers here
    in Vancouver Canada.
    How are they in Europe?
    
    Mitz 

    I've had dealings with three different Honda dealers in the UK.
    
    The first were competent 7 / 10 - must try harder. Unfortunatly they
    had an ``argument'' with Honda UK and are no longer a Honda dealer
    
    The second (replacement) dealer are not very good at all and seemed
    incapable of performing even simple services to the car (a Civic)
    
    The third dealer is very good indeed. Dispite the fact that he knew we
    were leasing the car and there we a very high chance he would not get
    our business he still leant us a 2.3i Prelude for a test drive
    on-our-own. Fortunatly he did get source the car which arrived on the
    day they said it would. He then phoned up a week later to check that we
    were happy with the car and that all was well - which it was. I would
    have no hesitation in recommending this particular dealer to anyone.
    PS They also had an NSX in which they let me take a good look at (Dream
    on).

    Any one know of Honda Owner Club Address? I'm interested in the
    unoffical sort of club not run by Honda. The sort that mails
    newsletters, arranges meetings etc! Any address to write to?

    
    Anyone any idea what the lease quotes are coming out at for the Civic
    V-TEC VTI then???
    They do look good, but I fear the cost maybe a little high.
    
    Ade

    
    
    Just found an answer in 1538.389...
    
    Ade

Hi,

  I want to adjust the value clearances on my 94 Honda Civic 1.5 Lsi (16V)
  I have two questions
  
  1) What is(are) the clearance(s) hot/cold?
  2) Is there something like the "rule of 9" for 8 valves which is used
     when adjusting 16 valves.  
   
  Thanks .

  Brian Doody

    
    Hit 100,000 Km mark.
    
    Broken parts so far:        - One brake lamp
                                - One room lamp
    
    Replaced parts(Wear&tear):  - set of tires (all four)
                                - front window wiper blades
                                - front brake pads
                                - shift knob (chewed by my dog)
                                - spark plugs
    Not too bad.

    
    Hit 100,000 Km mark.                                                   
    
    Broken parts so far:        - a brake light lamp bulb
                                - a room light lamp bulb
                                - shift knob (my dog chewed it)
    
    Wear & Tear:  		- a set of tires 
                                - front window wiper blades
                                - front brake pads (1st set, rear original)
                                - spark plugs (3rd sets)
    				- air filters (3rd one)
    
    Not too bad, still going strong.