Conference terri::cars_uk

    These can be had for about �5-6,000.
    
    Spend �300 and BBR will up the BHP to circa 200.
    
    The automatics tend to go for less so your in luck.

    How about a Lancia Thema [turbo] ?
    
    Not sure if it's too expensive (with Italian depreciation, you stand
    to save a lot when buying second-hand), or if it comes with an auto box.
    I think it has at least as much space as some of your suggestions.
    
    Again, similar comment to previous reply still applies :-
    
�    Spend �300 and BBR will up the BHP.
    
    J.R.

    Sounds like you need a big estate car. I'd recommend an Granada Estate,
    around 1985/6 vintage. �5K will buy you a *really* nice one, but petrol
    consumption won't exceed 20mpg by much. However, for around �3.5 you
    should get a pretty good one, and �1500 buys a lot of mpg over a couple
    of years. I've got a 2.0 LX auto with all the goodies, and it does
    20-21 mpg, but the sheer amount of room with 3 children is well worth
    it. When children get cramped they argue..... For the dawg, the 'boot'
    space is *huge*.
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. I paid �2800 6 months ago for a 1985 2.0 LX Estate in almost
        perfect order, superb condition for the year, with 55K on the
        clock, genuine mileage. It was a private sale, and now, looking
        about more, it was cheap.

�    Sounds like you need a big estate car. 
    
    I suppose that with 3 children AND a dog, an estate car would be
    almost a necessity, although some hatchbacks would do the job.
    
    If you ignored the fuel consumption, you could get a Range Rover.
    
    J.R.

>    If you ignored the fuel consumption, you could get a Range Rover.
    
I'me sorry but I feel that something is being LOST along the way.

I don't think that GBP5000 will buy much Range Rover, or if it does it
must be a bit of a wreck.8^)

Also have you ever seen someone under 5ft (most 4&5 year old are) trying to
get into a Range Rover.8^)

PS We used to have one, long long time ago, 1975 ish. OK then, but a little
impractical for suburbia.

Thanks anyway
Alex

how about a Renault Savanna (or whatever the R 21/25 estate is called now) - 
its got a 3rd row of seats and quite a large load area, should be able to
pick one up quite cheaply too

...art

�I'me sorry but I feel that something is being LOST along the way.
    
    Just thinking about 'remotely possible' alternatives.
    Obviously too remote (far out, man ?).
    
�I don't think that GBP5000 will buy much Range Rover, or if it does it
�must be a bit of a wreck.8^)

    At this price, you would certainly not get the electrical gizmos
    and the 'flashy' interior trim of the later models.
    But if it were 'a bit of a wreck', you could have more fun with it.
    
�Also have you ever seen someone under 5ft (most 4&5 year old are) trying to
�get into a Range Rover.8^)
    
    I know this problem, it involves driver or passenger doing some
    'weight lifting'...
    
    J.R.

    Sorry to Rathole, and I may be putting my neck on the block here,
    but what currency is GBP (is it Gibralta?) What's the exchange rate
    with the �?
    
    Ian.

I suggest changing the wife, and buying an MR2 for your own use...

>    Sorry to Rathole, and I may be putting my neck on the block here,
>    but what currency is GBP (is it Gibralta?) What's the exchange rate
>    with the �?

GBP is the international Swift code for � . Sorry, but I am an ex banking
person, old habits die hard, and have only just learnt what the COMPOSE key
can do for you !!

The exchange rate by the way is 1.0 .. (ex bankers etc...) 8^)

Which reminds me
What do you call a group of bankers ?


A wunch.

What else !!!

Alex

	Don't forget the service costs. Saabs, for instance are 
	horrendously expensive, as are some other more exotic machines.

	I'd stick to something nearer home. Honda engined Rover 800s
	look to be good value. 

	-John

    Stay with the series 2 Granadas.  During my contract days I had four in
    a row, two of the original shape (a 2.0L Pinto and a 2.5 Essex engine)
    and two of the '77-'84 shape (2.3L V6 and a 2.8L V6 auto).
    
    *Very* reliable and they seem to be lasting quite well.  The 2.8 auto
    did about 23mpg and the 2.3 although no ball of fire did about 25mpg. 
    Admittedly this was all long runs (I used to do about 40,000 a year)
    buying ex-demos with about 10K on the clock and selling them at about 2
    years old with 70-80K.
    
    The GL and Ghia models are well equiped for their period with central
    locking, tinted windows.  The Ghia would also have electric front
    windows, alloy wheels and possibly air conditioniong and nearly all
    Granadas have sun roofs.
    
    The V6 tends to sound rough on the top end as the tappets get out of
    adjustment very quickly and can hide some rocker shaft wear.  I was
    also advised to avoid 80/81 models as these seem prone to early valve
    failure as Ford in their infinite wisdom reduced the amount of material
    in the valve heads that led to overheating.
    
    I am also told to avoid the fuel injected models as they are expensive
    to repair and difficult to set up.  Mine were all carburettor models. 
    Minor oil leaks where the drive shafts exit the diff seem to be common
    place and nothing to worry about.  Spares are plentiful and not overly
    expensive.
    
    The Granada is also a great tow car if ever you get into caravans!
    
    Alan      

> I suggest changing the wife, and buying an MR2 for your own use...

I don't think that the MR2 will get even close to the performance of the
wife though !! 8^)

Mind you, it's a pretty good thought, I'me trying to persuade her that she
should have the big car and let me have a little zipper, R 5GTT maybe.

Now let me plan the stategy

Me    :  Simone, dearest, I was wondering .......
Noise : &@!* BLAM *!@& UGHH *!@&
Wife  : Oh dear, Alex you seem to have fallen over !
 

>	I'd stick to something nearer home. Honda engined Rover 800s
>	look to be good value. 

You have *GOT* to be seriously unwell or mind-bogglingly lucky to consider one
of these a good car !!!

They have the equipment, the ride, the handling, etc etc and they are about as
reliable as JJ when there's a fox around.

In my personal experience of three of these, I wouldn't recommend them to my
worst enemy. Actually, that is untrue, I would; but I wouldn't recommend them to
anyone else. The speedos pack up (all three cars a total of 8 times) the
fuel/injection control systems give up (one car twice and another once) The
exhausts go etc etc etc. Totally rubbish cars. (in my experience).

M.

    �Totally rubbish cars. (in my experience).
    
    Why did you have 3 then ?

>    Why did you have 3 then ?

I didn't. We're talking of one each for my parents representing two of them.

    What about the Rover SD1 Vitesse?????
    
    
    This car has (almost) everything you are looking for; power, style,
    refinement, electric everything, large boot. Plus you have the added
    bonus of the 3.5 litre fuel injected V8 engine.
    
    The only trouble is the fuel consumption, I don't know the figures but
    I can't imagine them being very good!
    
    You should be able to pick up a decent one for under 5000, although
    finding one can sometimes cause problem, they are quite rare.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    
    Graham

    
    The fuel injected V8 is probably more efficient than the carburetted 
    version and so mid-20s SHOULD be possible provided you don't drive the
    car like Steve Soper all the time! :^)
    
    However, this car is already sought after as a collector's piece so
    you'll probably be lucky to pick up a good one for less than �5000.
    
    Mark

�    However, this car is already sought after as a collector's piece so
�    you'll probably be lucky to pick up a good one for less than �5000.
    
    There is a dealer somewhere around who 'specialises' in this car.
    
    This probably means you pay a mark-up for the privilege, but I
    think that they are available in the required price range.
    
    I think I had seen the adverts in Motoring News, or perhaps in
    the Thames Valley Trader.  Anyone know of this dealer ?
    
    J.R.

    
    For a cheapish car with all the attributes you mentioned, the Opel
    Monza is a good bet.  Relatively cheap, it is rumoured that this could
    become a bit of a collectors item in the near future.  Petrol
    consumption is a bit on the low side, but the performance is good.  A 
    1978/79 effort shouldn't cost you more than a few grand.
    
    
    Nigel

    OK, now this WIll give you 
    ECONOMY
    SPACE
    PERFORMANCE
    ELECTRIC EVERYTHING
    AND could be had for the price you suggest!!!
    
    Citroen CX Turbo Diesel safari/pallas whatever estate (or even the
    saloon if it's a hatch, which I can't remember).
    
    Richard

    
    I'm sure clued up on UK prices but how about some of the more popular
    people carriers, eg. Renault Espace or similar ?  Just a thought.
    
    - Brendan
    

    
    Rover 820i, Ex-fleet car for under 5000 easily ( low milage,
    good condition.)
    
    Good automatic gearbox. & electric everything.
    
    - Ric.

    I bought an ex-lease SAAB 9000i from PHH for under 5 G's a couple of
    years ago. Now that's a big car for you, very comfortable, fast enough
    , very reliable (so far only routine servicing), infact I can't fault
    it.
    
    It's now got 88,000 on the clock, apart from a few minor rattles, some
    valve noise and a 'D' reg plate it could be an 18,000 pound new one.
    
    I get it serviced at a SAAB dealer but because I don't do high mileages
    it works out quite cheap over the year. I have only needed routine
    maintenance, front brake pads, some welding around the handbrake mount
    and four new Goodyear NCT2 tyres (188 pounds the set). When I enquired
    about the life expectancy of the exhaust system they told me the only
    ones they ever replace are accident damaged. When asked for an
    approximate quote for a new clutch they said they have not had to
    replaced one yet, and some they service have 120,000 on the clock.
    SAAB service costs seem expensive but they do a good job, lend me a 
    car and appreciate that as a private owner I have a tight budget.
    For example when the handbrake needed welding for the MOT I saved on
    labour charges by removing the seats and carpets myself first.
    
    If things do go wrong it will be expensive but it seems to be running
    well at the moment  
    
    Insurance group is 6 and I pay about 350 pounds per year fully comp.
    ,with full no claims discount and being over 30.
    
    My car has electric windows/sunroof/mirrors, cruise control, central
    locking etc. and I think I got a bargain. 
    
    If I have convinced you then look for a full service history, avoid TURBO's
    (higher insurance,more engine stress,expensive to fix), avoid ones with
    towbars (towing caravans reduces clutch life) and I would go for lower 
    mileage next time.
    
    I would be interested to hear from any other SAAB 9000 owners to get
    their views.
    
    				Colin
    
    
    
      

My uncle bought a 'C' reg 9000i from new. So far he's done 120,000 miles (a lot
of that is towing his hill-climb car) - and he doesn't hang around. NOTHING has
ever gone wrong - he is even still on the original clutch! In some ways he
wishes that he had the turbo - for more ooomph - but isn't sure that it would
have lasted nearly as well.

Judging from his example, it is a very well put together car indeed.