Conference terri::cars_uk

Re.0 
�                        -< SECOND HAND PORCHE >-
�
�    I am thinking of buying a second hand Porche 924. Does anybody know
�    of any common faults or things to look out for ??
    

    I think the most common problem is the missing 's'  :-)
    

    
    Should this be in the DIY conference?
    
    Mark

    OK OK thanks for the feedback !!!
    
    But seriously...
    
    	Simon.
    

    
    A full service history is the main thing to look out for, and I would
    not be too worried about high mileage, as these cars have been driven
    as they were designed.

I had a 924 for 9 years and 150,000 miles. I would have replaced it with a 924S
if I had been able to find the right one.

In that time it needed a new cylinder head gasket (twice), front disks (twice),
two exhausts, a wheel bearing, a shock absorber,  electric window motor, 
had a radiator leak and went through a spate of problems with the injection 
system causing poor starting. At the time I sold it it was using oil and 
probably needed a major engine overhaul (well look at the mileage).

I believe that blown cylinder head gaskets are not an uncommon problem with 
this car. The rest are the luck of the draw. The 924 has galvanised bodywork 
so this should not be a problem. 

A Metro once made the mistake of driving into the back of it, writing off
most of the front end of the Metro and slightly cracking the rear bumper
on the Porsche (it's fibreglass, as is the front bumper).

You should watch out for signs of a worn gearbox or diff as these are very 
expensive to replace. Also look for good shut lines - if anything fits poorly,
it almost certainly means it has been in a shunt. Look for a service history
and watch out it has not been clocked - Porsches are favourites for this.
I believe Porsche GB can verify the history for a fee.

Bear in mind that spares are not cheap and Porsche dealers charge 2 arms and 
a leg. Also drivers of XR3s, BMW 3's and other such rubbish often exhibit
suicidal tendancies at the sight of a Porsche.

If you have the money, go for a 924S - much better (Porsche) engine.

Go for it!

Dave

    Thanks for the info Dave, It sounds like the 924S is the one
    to go for.
    
    Simon.
    

    check the cost of the insurance .... I would have kept my 924 if it
    hadn't been group 9B and costing a fortune to insure. Even an 'old' 924
    which is worth much money still costs mega-bucks in insurance... you
    really need to be over 30 with full no-claims etc to be able to afford
    it :-(
    
    FWIW - I had a ratty V reg 924 that served quite well until the wheel
    dropped off (our own fault I think for not getting a garage to
    re-tighten the wheel studs) and then an A reg 924 that survived some
    nasty bumps with minor damage. The old one 'used oil' but I can't
    remember any real mechanical faults with the newer one..... 
    
    I agree with the theory of buying a 924S - the price difference will be
    a lot but worthwhile to get the bigger engine.
    
    Most parts are very expensive - 33 pounds each for plug leads !!
    servicing at a porsche dealer is expensive too ... around 35 punds per
    hour labour - it's worth shopping around porsche dealers you can get to
    as the area they are in effects the price a great deal.
    
    good luck..... try to get one with a sunroof - that comes right out and
    makes a 'pretend' targa :-)
    
    Our insurance broker reckoned that the best re-sale value came from
    ones that a Red with a s/roof and with electric everything and full
    service history.
    
    Have fun
    
    ex-porsche owner :-(
    Jane

.7 reminded me....

A sunroof is almost essential. There is so much glass the car is like a 
greenhouse in summer. Power assisted steering is a good idea especially on the
924S unless you want gorilla arms. A dark coloured interior minimises
reflections off the rear window. Seats with Porche logo cloth look good -
the standard ones use a lot of Rexine type material. IMHO metallic paint
looks best - red cars are two a penny and are a bit high on pose factor. 

Now you can see why I never managed to replace my original 924 ....

Dave (ex metallic green/sunroofed/cloth seated/dark trimmed/non power assisted/
gorilla armed 924 owner)

    
    Some may tell you the 924 "wasn't a proper Porsche". I never drove
    one, and haven't any strong feelings about them. The 924S certainly
    looked better, but more importantly the 2.5 litre engine was Porsche's
    own. With the engine, watch out for lubrication; I know a few sad
    cases of seizure (attributed to poor maintenance by previous owners).
    Of course, a 944 looks better still and may not cost a lot more than
    a 924S.
    
    Bill.

    
    I don't know whether the 924 was made into a 'proper Porsche', but it
    was designed as an Audi.
    
    Mark

>>    Some may tell you the 924 "wasn't a proper Porsche". I never drove
>>    one, and haven't any strong feelings about them. The 924S certainly
>>    looked better, but more importantly the 2.5 litre engine was Porsche's


what was the difference in looks of the 924S over the 924?

I can only remember the 'S' decal on the lower edge of the doors on the 924S
distinguishing the two cars?! Late pre-S versions had the 'telephone-dial' style
alloys ant the rear spoiler too.


...art

    I know that Porsche engines that have been badly treated can suffer
    from heavy Cylinder bore wear, due to the material used to coat the
    bores being very prone to scratching when lubrication is less than
    perfect.  I'm sure someone can give more details.
    
    
    John

re .10

If my memory serves me right the 924 was designed by Porsche as the VW
sportsmobile. VW got cold feet so Porsche took it over and got Audi to 
manufacture it.

re .?

There is no external difference between a 924 and a 924S. I believe the
the 924/924S and the 944 share the same floor pan, the main difference
being the high pose factor wheel arches on the 944. 

Confused yet?

Dave

    
    The 924s were all built by VAG 

Agreed since VAG = Volkswagen Audi. But they were built in an Audi factory.
Hence Porsches and Audis both have galvanised bodywork but VWs do not.

I think I've just beaten this rathole to death. Any more takers?

    The 944 and 924S engines (not 924) have a silicon coating or something.
    This may become damaged if the car is left standing for log periods of
    time (it ``dries out'') or, as noted, are not properly treated.
    
    The 924S engine is a detuned (don't know how) 2.5l 944 engine.
    
    What about the 924 turbos ? They are about equal to a 2.5l 944 in
    performance but a lot cheaper.  They have the advantage of being much
    cheaper to run. I think you can even have them chip'ed to about 200 bhp.
    There are a couple of places that specialise in these which advertise in
    Porsche Post (The PCGB mag.) - I'll get details if you want.
    
    If you want the looks of the 944 then get one of the 924 turbos with
    the 924 Carrera body kit. This looks very angular - great in my opinion.
    The Carrera was the LHD only 250bhp (I think) Le Mans raced 944 turbo
    prototype. Don't confuse with 944 turbo SE which was the 250 bhp 944
    ``special'' from a few years back.
    
    The 924% is a tough car. Don't be scared of high milage but insist on
    full service history & ideals good oil (Mobel-1) etc.
    
    	Rik who-would-like-a-944-turbo-SE

    
    Re .16
    
    Your namesake (Ross) had/has a 924 Carrera. A very nice and fast little
    car. There's some notes on it somewhere in here.
    
    Mark

I thought the 924 turbo had reliability problems. It's a lot of clout from
what started off in life as a van engine. The 924S/944 engine is smoother than
the 924 one due to the balancing shafts.

    
    The 924S had the later style telephone wheels, revised nose and
    rear spoilers. Looked nicer than the older 924 models, in my view.
    I don't think I've seen any 924 that looked like a 924S - doesn't
    mean they don't exist though. 
    
    Reliable opinions rate the 924 Turbo as a bit of a dog, but the
    924 Carrera GT is a totally different ballgame. Looked like a 944,
    but a lot lower and more aggressive. 911 like performance, loads
    of turbo lag, handling good upto a limit where everything suddenly
    goes awol. Very rare, especially in RHD form. Great car, with lots
    of character.
    
    Bill.

    There is a dealer near Hindhead which tends to stock quite a few
    Porsche 924/944 types.  If you venture that way, perhaps they may
    be worth seeing ?
    
    J.R.

	I did a lot of miles in my 924 turbo, they're exceptionally
	good value for money at the moment and well worth a test drive.
	They eat turbochargers and tyres though, and mine had to have
	a head rebuild at 60k.

	Back to the VAG rathole, who on earth said the 924 engine was
	a van engine? It was originally the engine in the 60's version
	of the Audi 90 saloon as an 1800cc unit, but never a van to my
	knowledge. The 924 was designed by Porsche for VAG btw, they
	must still be feeling a bit silly about deciding it wouldn't
	sell and letting Porsche have it...

	Jonathan.

�	Back to the VAG rathole, who on earth said the 924 engine was
�	a van engine? It was originally the engine in the 60's version
    
    Almost every article (and note) that I have read on the 924 has
    raised this point.  The engine was (apparently ?) fitted to the
    Volkswagen LT van, before (and at the same time as ?) it's appearance
    in the 924.
    
�	of the Audi 90 saloon as an 1800cc unit, but never a van to my
    
    I hadn't heard of it being used in a 60's Audi - not disagreeing,
    though.  Was it not a 2 litre in later (LT/924) installations ?
    If so, I suppose it is just another 'family design' - in this
    case a member of the VAG family.
    
�	knowledge. The 924 was designed by Porsche for VAG btw, they
    
    What I understood was that it was designed by Audi (VAG) to be
    sold and badged as an Audi, but they went off the idea.
    
�	must still be feeling a bit silly about deciding it wouldn't
�	sell and letting Porsche have it...

    Perhaps it might not have sold if it did not have a Porsche badge on it !
    
    J.R.

	Re .22

	My info re the 924 being designed by Porsche for VAG came
	from the Porsche Club of Great Britian who may be a little
	biased... apparently Porsche do a _lot_ of pure design work
	for other German motor manufacturers, but the other
	companies concerned tend to play this fact down. The 1800cc
	version of the engine (pure Audi btw, not Porsche at all)
	that was used in my 1967 Audi 90 was uprated to 2 litres
	in the 70s, may well have been in many other VAG vehicles
	by then.

	� Perhaps it might not have sold if it did not have a Porsche
	� badge on it !

	Well it certainly didn't sell because of it's performance...
	I kept my 924 Lux for less than 4 months before changing to
	a 924 Turbo, got tired of VW LT vans etc beating me away from
	the lights!

	Jonathan.

    Wasn't there an article in YOUR CLASSIC magazine recently on what to
    look for in 924's ?
    
    Barry

�	biased... apparently Porsche do a _lot_ of pure design work
�	for other German motor manufacturers, but the other
�	companies concerned tend to play this fact down. The 1800cc
    
    No only for German manufacturers.
    
    They did work for Seat (related to VAG) - which is publicised,
    by any number of stickers/badges on the Ibiza.
    
    I think they have also done design work for Lade (or maybe Skoda).
    
    J.R.

    
    Where are you now then Ross?
    
    Mark

Re. 17

� Your namesake (Ross) had/has a 924 Carrera. A very nice and fast little car.

    Mark,

 	I still have the Carrera. It came VERY close to two major blow-ups
    being caught only just in time on the first occasion (ever seen a timing
    belt with no teeth ?) and stopping in a cloud of smoke and oil the second
    time. I had a year driving it, loved it to death, have no reason or desire
    to sell and have it stored pending a full restoration at some time in the
    distant future. I can't bring myself to wear it out like that so I now 
    drive an annonomous 20 year old Mini 1000 and I just don't care ! :-)


    Yes... parts are very expensive, especially when you have to get them from
    Germany.  :-(

� There's some notes on it somewhere in here.

    See note 50.*

Ross

	Can't somebody *please* correct the title of this topic?

    the original author or a mod can change it!
    
    
    Ian.

    .13�If my memory serves me right the 924 was designed by Porsche as the VW
    .13�sportsmobile. VW got cold feet so Porsche took it over and got Audi to 
    .13�manufacture it.
    
    The 924 project was the original Audi GT project awarded to Ing Porsche
    AG. The major requirements of the project were to use as many existing
    Audi components as possible. When the project was completed,
    demonstrated and accepted by Audi, the management decided that the car
    was not what they were looking for, and the project was filed.
    
    Later on, Porsche, in the middle of the 928 development, decided to
    build the 924. They went to the Audi management and asked Audi to build
    the car for them. Audi accepted to do so, at an extremely high price. It
    was robbery but Porsche wanted it. Porsche signed a contract over a
    number of years and some of their financial problems came from the Audi 
    contract. Needless to say Audi made a fortune at the same time.
    
    Only a couple of years ago the initial contract came to end. All
    Porsche cars are entirely built by Porsche, except the 944 cabriolet
    which travels through ASC.

    
    
    Patrick, 
    
    Whats ASC ? and if its not Porsche how do they build them, do they take
    a 944 coupe and remodel it or what ?
    

>>Whats ASC ?
American
Sunroof
Co.



...art

    ASC see .32
    
    I think I read that Porsche build the standard 944 and ASC then chop
    the top and make the thing become the cabriolet. The result is of
    excellent quality.

    
    The January 1991 issue of Supercar Clasics had a feature article on the
    924, which included road tests of the Lux and Turbo, what to look for 
    when inspecting a second hand model, some (Porsche GB) parts prices,
    and other bits and pieces of information.
    
    They also mention (plug?) the only 924 specialist dealer, Michael Ticehurst,
    Henley-on-Thames (0491) 680674. 
    
    I have this issue at my desk, so send me a mail if you would like a
    photocopy of the article sent to you via internal mail, or drop around
    to F4 if you are in SBP.
    
    Stewart.

    re  the original question.
    
    	If you do decide to go for the 924 there was an early design fault
    which resulted in water collecting in the boot in the *cubby-holes* by
    the rear wheel arches. This initially resulted in Germany at least with
    customers reporting clunking noises in cold weather- water had frozen
    into chunks of ice - My only experience of the problem was in the U.K
    with an X-reg 924 after a particularly wet weekend where we could hear
    water sloshing around in the back.
    	The solution is simple enough, just open the rubber plug at the
    bottom to drain the water and then seal with bathroom sealent(sp?).
    	Haven't noticed it with the 'S yet.
    
    
    Jason
    

    No activity for nearly a year but here goes. I'm going to be looking
    at an 84 944 this weekend. I'd like to bone up on what to look for
    like wear points and any hidden areas that can cause concern. This
    is a U.S. vehicle but is it safe to assume they are similar enough
    to the european models that any input here will be beneficial?
    Here's the stats to date. 944 model, no "s" or "turbo" and 93k miles
    on the clock and a 5pseed stick. Asking price is $2,500.00. The car
    does have slight nose damage but not so severe as to have touched the
    radiatior. It appears to be right side fender, bumper, popup headlight
    mechanism and hood. It looks a good weekend of DIY cosmetic repair but
    thats the least of my worries. 
    Thanks,
    Gary

Gary,

Make sure the back window doesn't leak. I know that this is a very common
problem with 944's. Try tipping water over seals and leaving for to sit on them
for a while.