Conference terri::cars_uk

    A few months back "What Car ?" did a comparison of the Escort Golf
    and Astra.  It may be worth getting the back issue.
    
    Trev

    
    Depends if its a company car or spending your own money.
    
    If its your own money and you plan to keep the thing for some time..
    then as its a convertible the best bet is probably the Golf. The
    hood is more likely to work and go on working, as is the rest of the
    car. The MkII is very well 'sorted' but will be replaced sometime soon
    by the MkIII so if your into having the latest shapes on the road,
    maybe the Escort....personally I think they're horrible. 
    If Rover did a convertible 216Gti it would by my choice as the Honda
    engine is not only very quick but out-smooths any of the German
    machinery.
    
    Have fun choosing!
    
    Dave

    
    The Convertible 216 GTi is due out in March according to a Rover
    dealer.
    
    I asked about the rumoured 2 litre 220 GTi and he said they had only
    been shown the convertible.
    
    
    It might be worth waiting for.
    
    Mark

    
    
    
    The Golf convertible is still based on the Mk1 bodyshell. When the 
    Mk2 Golfs were introduced the original convertible was retained.
    
    Richard.
    

    
    This months CAR has a test of VW golf 16v, Renault 19 and Rover 216 gti
    These are not convertibles but the report is interesting.
    

    Be careful, the convertible GTI (GLI this side of the Channel) doesn't 
    have the same performances (top speed/acceleration) as the closed one, 
    due to the shape as well as the extra weight.
    
    I owned a 1600cc's one back in '84/85 , the boot access and space was 
    ridiculous, and tall persons seating in the back used to have the top
    of their heads touching the roof (painless !).
    
    The roof tissue and insulation (noise and thermal) was very high 
    quality.
    
    I really loved that car which to me still looks the best among today's
    popular convertibles.
    
    Not a good buy if you need space and have children (even 1) yet.
    Today, wanting space and a convertible at the same time, I would rather
    choose a BMW 320/or 325, or a Chrysler Le Baron (less sporty).
    But these cost more money.
    
    Good luck,
    Pierre

    >>>.....or a Chrysler Le Baron (less sporty)
    
    Ugh !!! Quick. Where do I find the 'spit' key ?
    
    |-{

    .8, can you clarify ?
    
    .7, I agree, Le Baron doesn't look nice and is likely to be boring
    to drive also.
    
    :)
    Pierre

    RE: .7
    
    Mr Smith!
    
    What an insult! Us Chrysler are very happy driving around in a 
    convertable pose-mobiles ;-)
    
    				CuB.

     
    re .7 Do I detect some Euro-snobbery here!?
    
    	  I've never driven either but in one of the few TRULY open
    	  markets in Europe (Switzerland) the Chrysler seems to sell
    	  quite well.....but then again I've never understood what
          people see is so special about BMW's!
    
    	Dave

RE: -.1

Whilst Chrysler USA are indeed established in Switzerland, I can't remember the
last time I saw one of their salons on the road - let alone a Le Baron.
The Voyager sells well - you do see them regularly.

Cheers

Steve

    I vote for a second-hand well restored Citro�n 2CV.
    
    I've driven two of them and it felt as some culture car.
    However, this morning in a traffic jam on a unusual spot there was
    one in flames.  About three months ago I have seen one on very very
    same spot in fire as well.  This road must have been cursed.....
    
    Hans

RE: .12

I started to consciously look for them - and saw about 5 of them over the
weekend!! Funny how you start noticing things and then realise
that you've put your foot in it!~

Apologetically (though they're not THAT common!)

Steve

Hallo,

I may be biased having driven VWs for so many years but I reckon the Golf 
Cabriolet is the best value for money.  I bought a "Classic Line" last 
month in classic green (similar to "British racing green") metallic "pearl"
effect with beige leather interior (seats, trim and hand-brake lever) and black 
leather steering wheel and gear knob. Dashboard is plastic.
Standard features are height-adjustable heated (scale 0-5) seats in the front, 
polished steel wheels with VR tyres, power steering, tinted windows, board 
computer etc. 
I have a "Gamma" coded radio/cassette with RDS/MSS/ARI and 6 loud speakers 
producing 80 Watt, front and rear fog lights and three instruments on the 
centre console as extras. The hood is black cloth on the outside (with 20mm 
insulation) and plastic on the inside and operates electric/hydraulic.
The engine is the standard 1800 cc with US Cat producing 98 hp. She's 
now run in and the top speed is about 170 km/h. However accelarating is more 
important, particularly on country roads in the range 40-100 km/h.
After 4000 km my fuel economy was an average 8.5 litres per 100 km using normal
(lowest octane available) unleaded petrol.
The boot is small but if there's only two of you in the car you can fold the 
rear seat forward. There's even a Ski-rack (550 DM) for the roof available!
VW produced three models to honour the end of the Cabrio based on the mark I:
"Classic line", "Sports line" and "Young line". The series was very limited and
cannot be ordered anymore. There are still some rare examples available in 
dealer's display windows around Germany.
The mark III Golf is available in October with delivery commencing in December.
This car has been constructed with a cabrio in mind, which will be available 
next year. I saw photos in "Stern" magazine last month and unfortunately it 
looks just like a Ford Escort and the hood folds away completely into a recess 
behind the rear seat. Sob. 

Cheers
Mitch

    
� looks just like a Ford Escort and the hood folds away completely into a 
�    recess behind the rear seat. Sob. 
    
    
    I know its purely a matter of taste but the new fashion of 'hiding' the
    roof a la Z1 is much tidier and I think prettier. Also putting the
    cover on is a real pain at times.
    
    Garry
    

>> new fashion of hiding the roof

Hardly new... the Ford Thunderbird (I think), and probably others too, in the
fifties had an "automatic" roof that folded away into a compartment behind the
cockpit.  There were a horrendously large number of motors, relays and servos
to control the whole thing!

Scott

    Ford had even such thing as retractable (sp?) in '50s. 
    It was convertible with this automatic system that folded the roof 
    into a compartment behind the cockpit. But the roof was metallic! 
    
    - Jyri -

    
    
    Ah yes but then I wasn't around in the 50's , every thing comes around
    eventually thats why I saved my bell bottoms and tank tops ;-)
    

Falcon "Sunliner", I believe.

-Al

>Falcon "Sunliner", I believe.

Galaxy...1957-59

OK, it was a Galaxy, but wasn't it called a "Sunliner" or some such?

-Al (who saw one of these last year at a car show in Amherst, New Hampshire
(USA).

I *think* they were called Skyliners...and that regular convertibles were
called Sunliners....the point I was trying to make, though, was that they
were built on the biggest model, Galaxy. Falcons were the first US Ford
'compact' cars and were first made in 1960.

I understood your point.  I just wanted to see if the rest of it was correct.


I could have sworn that it was built on one of 'F' cars....Fairlane maybe?

I'll check next time I go to Amherst.

-Al

Geez, now you've got me thinking....I know I've got the years right but
I'm beginning to doubt the models. Ford had 'classes' of cars, some of
which were size related, others, trim/option related. For instance in 1953
there were 'Mainline', 'Customline' and 'Crestline' series. The cars were
all the same size, but trim/options were different and some models were only
available in certain series. By 1957, first year of the cars in question, they
may have also added size related series as well as trim/options.

    I'm not sure but...
    
    I think it was Fairlane; Galaxie came somewhere around '62?
    
    Starliner was the HT-version, Skyliner and Sunliner were the
    convertibles.
    
    Falcon was the compact car. Mustang (and Mercury Comet) was based on
    the Falcon.
    
    - Jyri -

re: Retractible Ford

I looked up the information.

1957/58 Ford had 3 major series: Custom, Fairlane, Fairlane 500. These were
further broken down into 6 and 8 cylinder sub-series. The two convertibles
offered were both in the Fairlane 500 (8 cylinder) series. They were called
Sunliner (soft top) and Skyliner (retractible hardtop).

1959 A fourth series was introduced, Galaxie. The two convertibles were in that
series, retaining the same names as 1957/58.

Prior to 1957, there was also a 'glass top' Ford (and Mercury) where the front
half of the roof was plexiglass. These were called Skyliners also (the Fords
anyway...not sure what the Mercury's were called). I believe they were offered
from 1952-56.

In 1960 there was a Starliner Ford which was just a 'hardtop convertible' or
in UK speak, pillarless two door coupe.

    
    Looking around for something to, maybe, replace the Calibra on Monday
    at the motor show, we looked at a number of cabriolets.
    
    The Rover 216 and the Renault 19 both looked good with OKish sized
    boots and reasonable room inside. 
    
    Does anyone have any info on what's reckoned to be good in the
    hatch/saloon based cabriolet market at the moment? What about the
    Escort? (Looked ok, but it's a FORD! :^))
    
    Thanks.
    
    Mark

    Hi Mark,
    
    I've driven the 216 and I think its OK, with the engine only really
    providing enough power when it really gets revved up. A bit like a
    Turbo, but without the torque. I get the feeling that the 220 is a much
    nicer drive. The 216 however, is much noisier than my 19 16V Saloon
    (currently a very quiet car).
    
    I'd be interested to know what the 19 Cabriolet is like on noise. The
    19 Cabriolet certainly looks the nicer car!
    
    Have you looked at the Peugeot 306 Cabriolet?
    
    Mark.

    
    Re 306
    
    I had a look, but the 306 Cabrio wasn't available for close scrutiny.
    
    I favour the Renault, but the Rover's a nice car.
    
    Mark

    Renaults looks great, but look out for the Renault Rattle.
    
    FWIW The Ford Escort advert shows people putting a roofrack on the
    cabriolet and slapping their skis onto it. Something worth considering
    maybe Mark?
    
    Greg

    Mark,
    
     I test drove a rensult 19 16V cabriolet a year or so ago and
    thoroughly enjoyed it. I found it to be fast, comfortable, and fun to
    drive.
    
     There was some scuttle shake but not too bad. With the side windows up
    and the roof down there was very little buffeting and it was easy to
    hold a conversation with the passenger even at high speeds ( approx 100
    m.p.h )
    
     I certainly would have one if it wasn't so impractical as a family car.
    
    
    	Barrie.

My youngest Son has one of these, he has been back to Baldock's several times 
to get a persistant leak fixed - water on the passenger - without success so far.

He has had it since June this year, very nice car, good back seat room, but what 
boot?  You couldn't even get a decent size suitcase into it!

				Malcolm.

    
    Why so impractical? Just lack of carrying space? Our idea is to replace
    the Calibra and the Uno with a Cabriolet and a midsized saloon/hatch.
    
    Alternatively, we may not change any cars or we may just change the
    Calibra, at the moment we're just looking.
    
    So, the Renault is widely  liked, any feedback on the Rover or Escort?
    
    Mark
    

>    
>    So, the Renault is widely  liked, any feedback on the Rover or Escort?
>    
I have a Rover 214 Cabriolet. My mate has the ford.

The Rover is very nice with the roof down. I usually have the windows up
because the wind whistles through the seat belts and the B pillar

I haven't found performance to be a big issue - then again I have made a
decision to drive more sensibly. If I had got a 220 the general consensus is
I'd be dead by now!! suffice to say its about the same as my mates Escort 1600
for performance.

The inside is nice, controls ok, indicators are a bit fiddly.
Tape player is fussy about tape quality - it FEELS right!

Boot is much more roomy than I expected - obviously nothing like a hatchback!
Comfy seats with lumbar control. Driver has height adjust, but i'm 6'2" so
don't use it.

Good amount of headroom and rear passenger legroom. Can't remember rear
passenger headroom - I think I've only had passengers in the back with the roof
down

The roof is easy to put up/down (I have the manual one) It folds down about the
same amount as the ford - quite a lump sticking up infact. Use the cover the
interior (ceiling?) gets dirty without it, looks good and is only 4 poppers.

It pays to fiddle when closing to get the best fit. I have a draught noise from
the rear passenger side if I don't check when closing. Also there is draught
noise from the front top at the drivers side. There is a join in the rubber
seal where the roof folds - this and the drivers top side leaks just a tiny
bit. I'm waiting for a new seal from Rover.

The front of the roof is dirt prone due to design - the ford is slightly more
sensible here.

I think a plastic screen is a big disadvantage especially as even the ford has
a glass screen. But the demister fan works well, I just have to keep cleaning
the thing!

The Rover does have a much greater quality feel than the tin-box ford. The roof
seems better made, better quality. General ford quibbles here - if you like
fords no problem, but this bugs me!

I'd recommend the Rover all-in-all. But I would very much like to try the
Renault 19 - it looks very nice!

	Paul.

The Astra Cabrio is fun...don't know what it's like when the weather is nasty 
though...

Hi,

The colleague who has one has swapped with me, because of lack of space in his
216 Cabriolet. He needed to get a workstation to Welwyn.

The car is nice, but noisy, and a very high revving cruiser (which can be
tiresome). The 19 16V will be quieter cruising (because of the lower revs),
and should be slightly better economy.

Equipment is good on both cars, whilst the interior of both look a little dated.

Its funny really, I LOVE driving with the roof down, but Martin (who owns the
car) doesn't seem to like taking the roof down.

I suggest you have a go in the 19, and let me know what you think.

Mark.

    My lease 214 cabrio is 14 months old. Its slow compared with the
    equivalent hatchback (and feels heavier).
    
    >>because the wind whistles through the seat belts and the B pillar
    
    - no problems here, but I generally have the windows up because a) I'm
    posing when its far too cold to do so & b) manual windows aren't easily
    operated from the drivers seat.
    
    >>Boot is much more roomy than I expected - obviously nothing like a 
    
    - its deep but not high & will take a folded pushchair no problem. Many's 
    the time I've driven the 10miles or so from B & Q with the hood down and 
    some lump of wood on the back seat tied to the roll bar!
    
    >>Good amount of headroom and rear passenger legroom. Can't remember
    >>rear passenger headroom - I think I've only had passengers in the back 
    
    - good rear headroom due to the way you sink into the rear bucket seats
    
    >>I think a plastic screen is a big disadvantage especially as even the
    
    - IMO this is the major dis-advantage. Its easily scratched, & mine has
    what look like stress marks in the plastic where it bends on folding,
    good job the car is fitted with door mirrors, cos visibility is
    reducing as the car gets older.
    
    I think for looks the Rover is one of the best in its class, hood up or
    down but I do like the R19 when it goes topless.
      

>================================================================================
>Note 1313.38                   Which Convertible?                       38 of 38
>BAHTAT::CARTER_A "If not you, who else?"             30 lines  29-OCT-1993 15:47
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    My lease 214 cabrio is 14 months old. Its slow compared with the
>    equivalent hatchback (and feels heavier).
>    


do you have the multi-point injection? I don't know when this was added to the
1400 or how much (if any) power it adds?



	Paul.

    I've discussed this in another note (possibly the Rover 200 note) and I
    came to the conclusion that no, it isn't multipoint. - Something to
    watch for in a 2nd hand purchase perhaps?

The 1.4 with multipoint injection has an extra 8 bhp, but this is apparently
offset when a cat is fitted.  Andy, I think your car, like mine, has single
point injection, but mine doesn't have a cat fitted which possibly explains
why it's slightly faster.  (Okay, so my driving style may contribute to this,
but my added weight should offset any advantage!)

Chris.

    I believe the quoted figure is 103 bhp with a cat fitted. The multipoint
    injection changes added 8 bhp with a cat fitted as standard.
    
    Brian

I took an Astra 2.0i cabrio out at the Vauxhall Roadshow and was very 
impressed. Fun, fast, quiet with the roof up, no roll over hoop, not
too blowy with the roof down, rigid and the boot looked a good size.
Bigger than the Renault (what isn't!).
The back window was glass. Leg room in the back looked pretty good.

It also has all round lecky windows, power hood, power steering and
(I think) ABS all standard.

	Ian