| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1174.1 | the NS-X is coming | NCEIS1::CHEVAUX | Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995 | Mon Dec 24 1990 10:32 | 74 |
| In this month SPORT AUTO an interesting comparison of several cars likely
to be challenged by the new Honda NSX. Summary below :
Technical data
Ferrari Lotus Porsche Venturi Honda
348tb Esprit SE Carrera 2 260 NSX
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine type V8 90deg Str. 4 Flat 6 V6 90deg V6 90deg
Camshafts 2 x 2 2 2 x 1 2 x 1 2 x 2
Valves 4 per cyl 4 per cyl 2 per cyl 2 per cyl 4 per cyl
VTEC
Turbocharger ------- Garrett ------- Garrett -------
TB03 T3
Ignition Marelli Delco Bosch EIA Renix Honda
Capacity 3405cc 2174cc 3600cc 2849cc 2977cc
Bore x Stroke 85x75mm 95.3x76.2 100x76.4 91x73 90x78
Compr ratio 10.4 8 11.3 8.2 9.7
Max rpm 8000 7400 6800 6500 8000
Pk power hp 300 264 250 260 274
@ rpm 7200 6500 6100 5750 7300
pk hp/ltr ratio 88 122 69 91 92
Pk torque mkg 33 36 31.6 44 29
@rpm 4200 3900 4800 1750 5400
pk tr/ltr ratio 9.7 16.6 8.8 14.5 9.7
Cx / SCx .32/? .35/? .32/.573 .31/.5 .32/.57
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ferrari Lotus Porsche Venturi Honda
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Measured weight 1485kg 1320 1395 1280 1355
Front/Rear ? 555/765 565/830 510/770 555/800
kg/pk hp ratio 4.95 5 kg/hp 5.58 4.93 4.95
Tyres front 215/50x17 215/50x15 205/55x16 205/55x16 205/50x15
rear 255/45x17 245/50x16 225/50x16 245/45x16 225/50x16
Price (France)
FF Dec 1990
Ferrari Lotus Porsche Venturi Honda
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
639000 539200 439200 488000 480000
Measured performance
Ferrari Lotus Porsche Venturi Honda
348 tb Esprit SE Carrera 2 260 NSX
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top speed (kph) 274 260 260 263 271
0-400m (sec) 14"00 13"60 13"80 13"20 13"70
0-1km (sec) 25"70 25"40 25"60 24"70 25"00
0-100kph(sec) 6"4 ? 6"3 6"3 6"6
100-140kph
on 5th gear 9"3 8"8 10"5 8"4 11"2
A few notes:
- the Ferrari 348tb has an awful gearchange (very slow), the Porsche's
gearchange is unprecise (too much play), Honda's perfect
- the Honda's target (current version) is clearly the Ferrari
- torque speaks (see Venturi and Lotus figures)
- the Venturi is available in both slow and fast final drive versions. Top
speed was reached at max rpm (ignition cutoff) with slow version
- Ferrari's production booked for about 3 years (Ferrari effect)
- All other cars readily available
|
| 1174.2 | There's one in Cannes | NCEIS1::CHEVAUX | Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995 | Wed Feb 27 1991 10:23 | 4 |
| For the Valbonneers
Garage CALIFORNIE Automobiles, Boulevard de Lorraine, Cannes have a red
NS-X for demo.
|
| 1174.3 | Too damed expensive :-( | CRATE::WATSON | As simple as possible, not simpler | Wed Feb 27 1991 11:26 | 16 |
| Honda UK have stopped their dealers from having demo NSX's because
demand (=waiting list) is so high. This is stupid. I've been able to
obtain test drives of cars with much longer waiting lists (Lotus Elan)
Also (If your serious) I believe its quite easy to get test drives of
the most serious of cars (F40's included).
I also had difficulty getting test drives of the new MR2 and MX-5
(There too popular sir, when ever we get a demonstrator in someone buys
it!) But thats another rathole.
Also why is the NSX so overpriced in the UK (Yes I know all UK cars are
overpriced, but the NSX is particularly bad).
It costs �52,000 in the UK yet only $60,000 in USA and under �30,000 in
Japan - where surprise, surprise there is a four year waiting list.
|
| 1174.4 | | VOGON::ATWAL | Don't dream it, be it | Thu Feb 28 1991 07:59 | 8 |
| >> obtain test drives of cars with much longer waiting lists (Lotus Elan)
the wait list for Elans is non-existant - takes longer to get a Pug GTI than a
new Elan
...art
|
| 1174.5 | I hate the recession | CHEST::WATSON | As simple as possible, not simpler | Thu Feb 28 1991 08:58 | 22 |
| art,
When I took the Elan out for a test drive (over 12 months ago)
there were only dealer / press demonstrators available and the waiting
list was 12 months or so. At the same time I was offered a Pug1.9 for a
healthly discount from my local dealer. It would seem that the
recession has turned the car market on its head.
As for the Elan you probably can get them immediatly nowdays but I
would have thought that would also apply to the Pug1.9.
Me, well I don't know what to get. Options include ...
1. Elan SE
2. New Elan Sprint
3. New mid-engined VTEC CRX
4. 2nd hand cossie
5. 2nd hand 944 Turbo SE
6. None-of-the-above-because-of-said-recession :-(
Mind you now this war is over us Ada contractors ...
Rik
|
| 1174.6 | | VOGON::ATWAL | Don't dream it, be it | Thu Feb 28 1991 09:11 | 10 |
| >> 3. New mid-engined VTEC CRX
huh? *mid_engined* CRX - i've not heard of that one...?
must admit to being surprised at the 3 month wait for the 1.9 Pug
...art
|
| 1174.7 | | FORTY2::BETTS | X.500 Development | Thu Feb 28 1991 09:51 | 6 |
|
Tell me more, please! I'm potentially interested in the CRX VTEC
(though I haven't driven one yet) - a mid engined, rwd, variant
could be just what I'm looking for.
Bill
|
| 1174.8 | Mid-engined CRX | CHEST::WATSON | As simple as possible, not simpler | Thu Feb 28 1991 10:54 | 13 |
| Well details are sketchy to say the least.
1. Confirmed to be Mid-engine RWD
2. Engine will be VTEC unsure of 1.6, 1.8 or 2.0l config
(=150, 170, 190 bhp - I guess)
3. Will be first shown in Europe at Franfurt (sp!) in Autumn along
with rest of new Civic range.
4. Styling - no idea but if it looks anything like as good as the
NSX and current CRX then its bound to be a winner in my
books.
Also on the Honda from there will be a new 800cc 80bhp very light
weight two seater MX-5 competitor by the end of the year price <�10,000
|
| 1174.9 | | NCEIS1::CHEVAUX | Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995 | Fri Mar 01 1991 13:12 | 7 |
| Just sat in the NSX in the garage (salesman did not have time for a
testdrive, will reschedule very soon).
Build quality and presentation truly excellent. Engine bay very neat
and clean. Ferrari is left with just the name.
I still need to feel the road characteristics.
|
| 1174.10 | Mitsubishi GTO3000? | NSDC::SIMPSON | The Clot Thickens... | Wed Mar 20 1991 12:41 | 17 |
| Anybody know anything about the Mitsubishi GTO3000? Apparently, its getting
rave reviews in Japan - similar specification to the NSX, but half the
price?
In Japan, the market is getting difficult for most manufacturers. Toyota
are holding their own, but Nissan, Subaru and (especially) Honda are struggling
- the latter's market share has fallen back to 7.5%. Two companies that are
bucking the trend are Mazda - everyone is trying to rush out small sports cars
to emulate their success and Mitsubishi - who have recently got the Japanese
Car of the Year award.
Honda are shutting a factory in the US down. Wonder if their woes will affect
their GP program?!
Cheers
Steve
|
| 1174.11 | | VOGON::ATWAL | Don't dream it, be it | Wed Mar 20 1991 12:58 | 16 |
| >>Anybody know anything about the Mitsubishi GTO3000? Apparently, its getting
>>rave reviews in Japan - similar specification to the NSX, but half the
>>price?
yeah:
it's got this special valve thing on the exhaust pipes which you can set with
a dash-mounted switch; it can make the exhaust note sound quieter (eg. around
town) or you can set it to a 'loud' position so that you can tear down country
lanes upsetting horses etc
must be really cheap if it's only half the price of an NSX (~�27,000 in Japan)
...art
|
| 1174.12 | | FORTY2::BETTS | X.500 Development | Wed Mar 20 1991 13:10 | 12 |
|
The market shares surprise me. I've never rated Mitsubishi (don't
like the name); similarly Mazda make some excellent cars but don't
have the cache of Honda or Toyota.
I would have thought Honda would have been performing on a par with
Toyota. Though Toyota have some pretty good cars in their current
range, they could really do with a supercar and a car to rival to
the CRX VTEC. Then again, I guess Honda have nothing to really compete
with the Lexus (the Legend is good, but not that good).
Bill.
|
| 1174.13 | | SKIWI::EATON | Marketing - the rubber meets the sky | Wed Mar 20 1991 22:19 | 8 |
| Aparently one of Honda's major problems is the lack of sales and service space
in the major urban centres - land still (watch this space...) being extremely
expensive over there. They cannot compete with the big two who have many more
outlets. Aparently the sales/salesman ratio is higher with Honda than with the
big two, but htere just aren't enough of them.
When the big banks start falling over in Japan, land prices should tumble
significantly which should help people like Honda...
|