Conference terri::cars_uk

Yeah,

I'd be interested in them too. If I can get one reasonably cheaply in a lease
car, then I'd definitely do it.

Anyone got one ?

The idea is pretty attractive. Lack of RDS is what forces me to use cassettes.

Cheers.

Mark.

There is one "included in the package" with the current Renault 5 GT special

/. Ian .\

    The VOLVO 760's come with a RDS Radio Cassette so I will let you
    know what it is live when we recieve the car (Mid Feb (I hope!)).

    Grant    
    

    Sorry for the ignorance but what does RDS stand for?  (don't need
    a 100 line explanation, ust want ot know what it stands for).
    
    Jan
    

    
    RDS = "Radio Data Service" I think.
    
    It is a bit like a radio version of Ceefax. All radio channels have an
    ID code attached so that you tune your radio to "Radio 2" and as you
    drive around it will always hunt out the best local transmitter for R2.
    
    You can set generics like "Commerical local" or "BBC local".
    
    Later you'll be able to program it for just your favourite program and
    the set will switch on or switch from cassette just as the show starts.
    
    You can also set it to cut from entertainment radio or cassette to a
    local traffic bulletin whenever they send out a road bulletin or
    weather report...
    
    This is apparently the wave of the future for radio...
    
    /. Ian .\

I've had an RDS radio in my car for about a year now.  I've got the Blaupunkt 
Montreux which I think was the first model actually for sale in the UK.  As 
well as units bought in  by Volvo from (I think) Philips there are units 
available from Clarion, Pioneer and others.  The Montreux cost �370.

It is easy to operate and doen't have too many small controls like the 
Pioneer.  It has reasonable functionality - autoreverse cassette, dolby b, 
four channels at 7W or two at 20W, five presets per band, three VHF bands.

RDS itself is of limited use so far because only GLR to my knowledge is 
actually broadcasting traffic information along with the RDS codes.

The useful feature is the ability to retune to the selected staion as you 
drive out of the local transmitters area.  This works well in general although 
the radio sometimes waits too long befor it decides the station is too weak.  
It is possible to confuse the radio by driving out of your area with it 
switched off.  It sometimes is then unable to find the local frequency for 
that station.  It is capable of scanning the band but does not always choose 
to do so.  I haven't worked out why yet.

Some of the features mentioned in .5 are not yet supported by the hardware -
such as ability to select the radio to come on when a chosen programme starts
and the ability to switch to local radio traffic broadcasts while tuned to
another radio station.  Check out the functionality of the radio you're 
buying.  RDS is not just one set of functions.

It will switch to the radio when listening to cassette if an RDS traffic 
broadcast comes up but as I say this only works on GLR at present.  It will 
also increase the volume automatically when RDS traffic information is received 
so you can drive along with the radio on and the volume down and not miss the 
information.

As a radio, I like it.  The algorithm could be a bit more clever but the main 
thing missing is local stations using RDS for traffic information.

Mike.

    Re:.5 Thanks Ian, thought that's what it was.
       
    Here in Germany we've had the "Traffic Information" feature for
    at least 4 years (I only hope all these systems are eventually
    compatible so we can drive round europe and still use these features).
    I find it usefull especially when listening to cassettes and the
    "Traffic News" cuts in, would like the ability to select two stations,
    one for listening and one for information (the information channel
    cuts in when needed).
       
    The more advanced radios are already available here but I don't
    know if the stations have caught up.
       
    Jan

    RDS is broadcast by Chiltern Radio (ILR) and BBC R. Bedfordshire,
    so you get coverage on the bottom of the M1 and northern M25.
    
    The Engineering ORACLE and CEEFAX pages on TV are giving updates
    of when RDS is becoming available locally. (It also giving
    details of when Nicam stereo is available locally on TV, but I think
    that would be a rathole, so I'd better not mention it....)
    
    I'm also thinking of going RDS next time, depending on the cost of
    course...
    
    Peter.
    

    Is RDS in the UK a reality now, then?  Last time I heard it was still
    in Phase 1 :-)
    
    Jeff.

    Whats Phase 1? I think the automatic tuning, and station recognition
    will do for a start.

    Sorry, for those not in Engineering - Phase 1 is the planning phase of
    a project.
    
    Guilty as charged, m'Lud.
    
    Jeff.

I've just returned from a weeks holiday when we travelled from Thatcham via 
Stratford to Aberdeen and back via Dumfries.  This should have given a good 
test of the capabilities of RDS and I must admit to being a bit disappointed.

Travelling as I do, mainly on motorways, RDS failed to hold onto the local 
radio stations, changing from one to another as necessary.  This may be 
because there were times when no alternative was available with adequate 
signal strength.

Another issue, this time not RDS's fault is that in Scotland, BBC Radio 4 is 
not available on FM so that couldn't be found either.  Most of the Scottish 
stations don't seem to broadcast even the station identifiers yet.

So, the verdict for the moment seems to be, as often, that RDS is useful in 
the south of England but not so good north of Birmingham!

Pity 'cause I like the north much better.

Mike.

>>Another issue, this time not RDS's fault is that in Scotland, BBC Radio 4 is 
>>not available on FM so that couldn't be found either

It is available on FM here in Ayr - and in Glasgow, and Edinburgh AND Inverness.
We listen to it every morning and evening, and thoroughly enjoy the plays and
the ......   Much better than TV!

I stand corrected! 

Mike.

    
    	I read in a motoring magazine (or it might have been a more
    specialist ICE - In Car Entertainment - magazine) a few months ago, not
    to buy the "far eastern" designed RDS radios, for the simple reason
    that they have no RDS in the far east and cannot fully test the various
    Algorithms used, only in the lab.  With the result that they are not
    completely "bug" free.
    
    	They were not condemning those product, only saying that there are
    errors in those designed in the far east.  Some of these are quite
    minor, but that the European designed units had been fully tested "on
    the road."
    				Malcolm.

    
    Whenever I listen to Radio 210, my RDS goes off searching and stops on
    FOX FM.

    
    By the "new" 210 FM, they seem to mean that they only play old records.
    I hate it, but the problem is that 210 is the only FM station I can
    currently get in my car due to it having a crap aerial.
    
    Trevor

Have you rung their feedback line to give them your views?

Dave.

    
    Or, try listening to Radio 1 instead ? 

>    
>    Or, try listening to Radio 1 instead ? 


now that IS desperate!!!!

Re - a few back

RDS is very useful if you listen to National FM stations; also some of 
the local stations if they have multiple transmitters/frequencies.

What it will do is track the station and keep then radio tuned in to the 
stations frequencies.

On the GRUNDIG in the Cavalier, the RDS system also has a TP(traffic 
program) monitor which will detect a special signal issued by ANY FM 
station and will immediately cut to that stations Traffic report 
regardless of what FM station you are listening to or even if you are 
listening to a cassette. This is particularly useful if you are 
travelling through a strange area. The signal is transmitted at the 
start of most FM stations traffic reports here in the 
Yorkshire/Lancashire area.

Obviously, The TP system can be turned off if you want. The other 
benefit of RDS to me is that when you tune into a radio station it 
displays the NAME of the station, again useful if you are searching fro 
local stations.

Personally, I find it useful

regards

malcolm

    I have been very dissappointed with the RDS radios fitted to Fords.
    
    They have a terrible habbit of "dropping out" whilst the RDS does its
    thing. This means that there is a break in the broadcast. This is
    annoying when listening to the news as you actually miss words, and
    just plaing distracting when listening to music.
    
    I agree that for long journeys across the country they are really
    useful. 
    
    On the systems I've seen, it doesn't appear that you can turn the
    facility off.
    
    Royston

    If you use a second (sun-visor ?) aerial, _that_ will solve the 
    problem. One is used to go off and locate the stronger signal, 
    making the 'switch' near instantaneous. 
    
    Mike. 

    On the Vauxhall one you can turn RDS off.
    
    It is far superior to the Ford RDS radio, it searches for the next
    refquency far more smoothly, the Ford has a TP function - but only if
    you are listening to the station that transmits the traffic news - eg.
    Radio Bedfordshire... Can't see the point of that at all...
    
    Even the Ford salesman I spoke to said the Vauxhall one was superior...
    
    
    Xtine

On minor niggle I have with the [TP] option, is that I get the "local" travel 
flashes from about a 150 - 200 mile radius !!!

    
    Re : The Rover v Honda comparison
    
    The Rover 620/623 is mechanically identical to the Honda even down
    to spring/damper rates. Engines, gearboxes etc are all made by Honda.
    
    Richard
    
    

One day last week, as I was driving out of the SBP office in Fareham, the
RDS TP on my Cavalier cut over to the local traffic news from BBC Radio
Bristol.

Sometimes, these gadgets are not necessarily useful...

Having said that, my previous car had 1st generation RDS that did the
auto tune, and not the travel flash bit. I'm happy to put up with
the long range travel flashes, for the benefit of sometimes getting
usefull information.

Peter.

I have a Rover with the standard Philips RDS radio.  It's crap compared
to the ones fitted to Fords and Vauxhalls (also a Philips on the latter,
strangely enough), as it's unable to stick to the same station for more
than a few miles (let alone a whole journey) and if you want traffic
information you have to be tuned into the station which is broadcasting
traffic programmes.  No other stations are monitored for broadcasts.
On top of all that, the sound quality isn't up to scratch, certainly
less than the cheaper systems in the range.

Disappointedly,

Chris.

    re:-1
    
    Didn't know you'd moved up to the Rover 600, Chris? :-}
    
    Andy

Could the last few notes be moved to 948?
Ta, Chris.

    Notes 948.23 - 948.33 moved as requested from #2064
    
    Royston

    sort of along the same lines,
    
    I have just got a phillips RDS in a second hand car with no manual,
    I know what RDS is, but it also has an AST button, and a AST display
    which comes on when you press the button. Pressing the button also
    seems to change channel for me. 
    
    What is AST, and how is it supposed to be used ?
    
    Thanks for any response,
    M:
    P.S. I am waiting for the dealer to see if he can come up with a manual
    for the radio.

    AST is Autostore. It will automatically (and temporarily) retune the
    preset stations to the strongest local stations found.
    
    Always thought it totally useless personally - RDS and Traffic news
    however is invaluable on Motorways, just leave it following BBC or
    Commercial local stations and it interrupts the cassette with traffic
    bulletins. This is a Sony unit however. Now I've just got to get it to
    automatically pause the Sony Carman CD player which plugs into the
    cassette player!
    
    Paul

	This is as good a time to ask as any.


	I've a Phillips RDS radio in my car. Throughout about 5500 miles
of driving around the UK, I've never once received a traffic report. The 
RDS features seem to work, the "TP" symbol is lit but never any traffic news. 

	I've only just begun to ponder this (since sitting parked on
the M1 for an hour last week). So, is the TP function  broken?

Ian

    I looked into RDS before I got my new car. I found out that there is an
    enhancement to the system called EON (Enhanced Other Networks). When I
    got my car, Panasonic where the only ones selling it. This is because
    they developed it with the BBC. Even the Pioneer techie admitted they
    were behind for about six months. 
    
    It has many more features than the old system. however most of them are
    not implemented by the Radio station. It does seem to answer most of
    the problems I've read about in this note.
    
    However it will not allow you to listen to BBC station and pick up TA's
    from Commercial stations and vica verca. This is because the Commercial
    channels don't want their punters being shunted off to Local BBC in the
    middle of their adds.

    I *think* when the TP sign is shown it means a traffic program is
    available on that station (BBC stations are the ones with this I
    think).
    
    Then you press the TP button and [] appear round the TP sign which
    means you are saying yes to being interrupted.
    
    Pressing the AST button and holding it will bleep and then find the
    strongest 5 stations and put them on buttons 1-5 ... this doesn't
    affect your preset stations and is useful if you are in a strange area
    and don't know the station frequencies... however RDS I would imagine
    would make this a fairly redundant feature...
    
    
    Xtine
         

    Re -2
    
    I've just put a Panasonic into my BMW 3 series. I'm still playing with
    the functions to get the best set up but I also endorse the EON system
    which was mentioned before. This stands for Extended Other Networks
    which means that you can pick up Traffic from any station, not just the
    one you're tuned to. It has AF for Auto Following i.e. change
    frequencies when necessary. BTW if you are in the market shop around. I
    was quoted 295 + fitting for a Pioneer without EON by the BMW dealer,
    Halfords had a SANYO (no EON) for 215. I got my Panasonic from a local
    specialist dealer for 169 (30 quid off cos it was an ex display model). 
    
    Richard Bell
    
    BTW
    
    I have trouble getting an AM signal, the BMW has an aerial built into
    the rear screen, could that be the problem, I had similar trouble with
    my Calibra.

    Richard,
    
    My Panasonic in my 3-Series works fine on AM. Perhaps a poor
    connection?
    
    Rupert

Anyone using RDS EON experienced this...?

When I use the EON TA function on a network station such as Radio 1,  I expect
and get announcements from BBC radio Hicksville etc...

However,  the set seems to keep muting for � or � second intervals as if it
has been told to look at a distant station for a traffic bulletin and then
cannot receive it with enough strength to justify interrupting the main 
program.

I would expect with the large coverage of transmitters such as Sutton Coldfield,
the system might me telling me about traffic info on Radio Nottingham whilst I
am in North Oxfordshire?  I wonder if this is the problem?

I guess the real answer is a diversity set with two tuners and EON,  although
the only sets I could find with EON didn't have diversity and the diversity sets
didn't have EON!

_Richard

    Does your set have a local/distant switch. If you set local it only
    searches for strong signals from nearby stations broadcasting the same
    programme. If I set TA on mine it continually searches for any traffic
    with the radio silent or while playing the tape.
    
    Richard

    Yeah, my Panasonic EON drops out too. It will also tune into to
    stations not broadcasting TA for about one second and then go back
    again. I rang Panasonic, who had already raised it with the BBC, and
    they said it could be due to misuse of the TA signal by the station. 
    
    I know what you're thinking...I didn't beleive it either.

    I've got an SC804 in an Astra GSi, which makes a loud crackle when it
    hunts between signals in RDS mode.  This happens every couple of
    seconds which makes it extremely annoying to listen to anything but
    loud music !
    
    Cloverleaf at Alton have had 3 attempts to fix it (the first time they
    broke it completely, the second was to fix the first time and the third
    was to investigate the problem I originally reported).  They say the
    solution is to switch RDS off.  They had the guy from Hertz there
    aswell to look at it.
    
    Has anyone else got this 'feature' ?  As far as I am concerned it means
    that "the radio is not suitable for the purpose it was designed" or
    somesuch Trades Description thingy.
    
    tmp

    
    see the Frontera Note for various entries regarding my SC804....
    
    basically it needs a pretty good signal so get the ariel (sp?) checked,
    then if you've got the old version of the SC804 (no CD button) you'll
    find that the TP function, once activated can't be deactivated without
    switching the set off and back on again - the new SC804 which i
    finally got as a replacement works fine - or it did for a few days
    until it died altogether !
    
    good luck,
    
    Graham

    I think if you get this problem, you are stuck with it.  Certainly the
    people at Hadleys couldn't fix it on my P405. Its OK to find a strong
    signal when in a (strange?) area,  but then if I want to listen I turn
    RDS off. 
    
    Anyway,  who needs RDS - the CB is more entertaining!
    
    Jc
    

    Has anyone got an explanation for the following behaviour exhibited by
    a RDS radio on 1 Vectra (mine), 1 Cavalier and 1 Astra.
    
    When the RDS and TP functions are switched on, you can sweep the
    airwaves and pick up the national stations e.g. Radio 1, 2 etc.
    However, it will not pick up local stations such as (in East Anglia)
    Q103 and SGR. Switching off the TP function means that you now can
    sweep AND now pick up these local stations. However, when tuned
    to a local station,  switching on the
    TP function sends the radio into a 'autostore' frenzy and hence looses
    the local station.
    
    I do think its a problem with the radio but I could be wrong.
    
    Any ideas anyone.
    
    Frank

    
    Frank,
    
    I think you'll find that those local stations don't broadcast the 'TP'
    signal - when you've tuned in to one, does a TP appear in the display ?
    
    So when yuo try to switch TP on, it first needs to find a TP station
    which it can monitor. Searching for a station with TP switched on
    ('[TP]' in the display) means it will only find stations broadcasting
    TP info.
    
    Graham
    

    My old (Astra) radio used to do that. My new (Renault) one now beeps at
    me if I select a station which doesn't support TP and I have TP turned
    on.
    
    Alan

    
    My Vectra radio is simply crap. I think the logic programming in it
    is completely wrong. It certainly doesn't behave how the book says it
    should. 
    
    I would expect it to explore from 88 - 106 even in RDS mode picking up
    all the stations on the way. Instead it seems to search by signal
    strength (which of course varies wildly as you drive even over a short
    distance) and so I finish up getting a search of R1, R4, R1, R2, R1,
    R3, 210, R4 etc. It's not helped by the fact that the signal strength
    cut off (where it finds the station but won't tune) is savage. And
    maybe the aerial is crap too!
    
    TP selected doesn't make mine only pick up stations broadcasting TP.
    
    Richard.

    >My Vectra radio is simply crap.
    
    Maybe its because I'm a thicky but I had one hell of a job with setting
    the radio up the demo vectra I had some weeks ago. When I get a hire
    car or whatever I normally programme a couple of buttons to the
    frequencies of my favourite radio stations. I'm not fussed with TP or
    RDS.
    
    With the vectra it seemed as soon I'd programmed it in it just went on
    its merry way searching the range and selecting another station
    instead. In the end I had the resort to reading the manual (gasp!).
    It didn't seem to behave how it was mean't to.
    
    Royston

    My Astra SC804 searched by signal strength and I'm sure it said so in
    the book.  A useful feature was that you could have 6 pre-programmed
    stations, then if you were in an unfamiliar area you could press (and
    hold) autostore (AS I think it was marked).  This feature found the 6
    strongest stations in that area.  
    
    This didn't override the programs stored normally, i.e. if you swtich
    the AS off, it goes back to the inital 6 you programmed.  Hence you get
    the capability to store 12 stations.  I wonder if people are getting
    confused between autostore stations and normal ones.
    
    My Astra radio was annoying, it would emit a loud click every few
    seconds which no-one could fix. 
    
    tmp

    
    I think the 'searching by signal strength' effect depends on the direction of
    the search; search upwards and it gets the strong stations, search down
    and it gets the weak ones. Also, if it keeps retuning itself it's
    possibly a dodgy aeriel (sp?), my Frontera had similar problems until
    the aeriel was replaced  with one from a Corsa (they have an amp in the
    base) - then it was fine.
    
    G.

    Thanks for the (logical) answer.
    
    Now to get the clock fixed !
    
    Frank

    
    I think it depends on whether your radio has EON (Enhanced other
    networks). And if the EON chipset is any good - a recent review in one
    of the mags found that most were flawed.
    
    This is how I think it should work, if memory of an article I read when
    EON was first annouced serves:
    
    The idea is that an RDS radio keeps track of all the RDS capable
    stations in its range. An RDS/EON radio  ALSO continually monitors BBC
    Radio 2 on 200 Khz. RDS stations that support EON have a data link to
    the R2 transmitter and send a TP flag to it when thay have a travel
    flash. This is broadcast by R2 and picked up by ALL RDS/EON radios in
    range of a R2 transmitter.
    
    The radio is then supposed to check the station ID in the TP flag it
    received from R2, and if it is in range of a transmitter for that
    station, to overide it's current activity and retune to the station
    tranmitting the Travel Flash at a pre-set volume level. Onve the TP
    flag is removed, it reverts to its previous mode. One thing I have
    noticed is that most commercial stations keep the TP flag ON for the
    duration of the adverts that follow a travel flash!!!
    
    Apparently, most stations are doing the right thing -it's the
    radios that are no good!
    
    Dave