Conference terri::cars_uk

    Any further news on the Discovery? 
    
    How does it stack up against the competition?
    
    How does it compare with the Landrover and Range Rover?
    
    Running costs and reliability?
    
    Is there or will there be a 2 Ltr version?

     A few quotes are appearing seem to be the minimum you'd want to
    buy is about �2.3K for a supplement holder and equipped to tow a
    'van and carry six bodies it works out at about �2.9K.
    
    No sight of a tax beating 2.0L engine, all the people that I have
    talked to that have one rate the Dieso-turble VERY highly. It has
    all the refinement that you could want that you can't afford in
    a Range Rover and none of the tractorial qualities we hanve all
    come to expect in a Land Rover.

    I test drove the Shogun, Patrol, Landcruiser and provided that you
    can live without 5 doors the Discovery came out on top ever time.
    Even the kids liked it!      

    I wish that I could have afforded one ........

    Where (within the Reading-Camberley-Basingstoke triangle) can I test 
    drive one of these beasts? Given the replies in a note further on,
    will the dealers (Rover?) be willing to let me take one out :-)
    
    Just seeing one would help.

    Go to the Land Rover/Jaguar dealer in Basingstoke(round the back
    of the town, can't remember the name) or Pangbourne (Julians): both
    offered (and Delivered test drives.
    
    If the price for the discovery with VP1 and the extra seats was
    around the �2.3K, I think that I would have sprung, but �2.9 was
    too rich on top of the extra tax cost......

    re-1,
    They used to have a number of Discoverys round the back of the garage!
    

    Well, I went round to Julians on saturday. We almost drove past
    them, as they are rebuilding. I only stopped as there were two
    Discoveries in the forecourt, which I managed to spot at the last
    moment.
    
    We test drove both the Diesel and petrol version. Both handled very
    nicely, though, obviously, the petrol version had bags more power
    to hand. The thing I didn't like about the diesel version was that
    I found it noisy. However, by Black Cab taxi standards, it was quiet;
    though I'm not sure that's saying much.
    
    I must say the Discovery is a very nice beast and well thought out. I
    found the driving position excellant, and it fitted me like a glove.
    For the most part there were no nasty surprises. The major surprise,
    and nit, is the gear shift.
    
    First, the nice thing about the gear shift, it has an extremely short
    travel; even shorter than the Astra GTE or Citreon GT. The nit is
    the stupid place Land Rover went and put reverse i.e.
    
                           R  1  3  5
                              2  4
    
    It is extremely easy to put the thing into reverse; I did it several
    times; the saleman kept say "No, You've got it in reverse". Slight
    pressure is needed to get first, slightly more and you get reverse.
    I think Land Rover should have followed Renault or Vauxhaul, where
    you have to physically lift a ring around the gear stick before
    you can enter reverse, or gone for this arrangement
    
                              1  3  5
                           R  2  4
    
    Another irritating design flaw was the anchor points for the rear
    seat belts. These are bolted to the floor of the Discovery; fine,
    very strong, will hold you securely in your seat. Unfortunately,
    the anchors are butterfly shaped pieces of metal that *protrude*
    from and stand proud of the floor. This means that it is difficult
    to slide heavy/flat loads into the Discovery.
    
    Other than that, I found the Discovery an excellant vehicle. It
    is extrememly roomy and light on the inside, with a very good finish. 
    Absolutely no headroom problems. Driving position was excellent
    with little feeling of roll. Rear passengers will notice roll, but
    this is to be expected in such a high seating position. Visibility
    was superb and, funnily enough, I didn't notice the spare obstructing
    the rear view.
    
    If I could afford one, then the only option I would seriously consider
    is the electric pack. The thing is so light and airy on the inside, I 
    didn't find a need for sunroofs; one demo vehicle had front/rear 
    sunroofs, and the other didn't; I didn't notice any difference. The 
    security pack (cargo cover and funny little bag) seemed over the top
    as did the two extra seats (which we don't need).
    
    I was disappointed that the catalytic converter did not come free
    (as on Volvo and Audi cars), and that the standard radio didn't
    have remote control stalks (as on Renault cars); as an option, you
    can get the four speaker stereo with remote control buttons, but
    at �425 I reckon its over the top.
    
    The salesman said that Land Rover found that Discovery sales were
    not hurting Landy or Range Rover sales; they had completely different
    buyers. He also said that they were increasing production; and that
    he didn't reckon we would see a five door version for some time.
    
    The verdict: If I can afford one, I would get a petrol version 
    tomorrow. However, tax and petrol consumption seem set to rule that
    out. Wonder what Mr Major will do...
    
    Angus

    
    Here we go down the old Diesel vs petrol argument, so if the moderator
    wants to nuke this reply that's OK by me.....
    
    The discovery diesel has about the same torque (if not a little
    more) than the petrol. It's the torque that gets you off the starting
    blocks....you run out of revs sooner in a diesel, that's when a
    higher revving petrol engine takes over as it is still delivering
    an increasing power curve when the diesel has run out of breath
    or hit the rev limiter.
    
    It all depends on what you want to do...... dfor me, pulling a big
    van, it would have been ace, but the pennies wouldn't stretch to
    it.

	Haven't much experience with Land Rovers but used to borrow
	a neighbour's occasionally. I was always surprised at how 
	difficult it was to get it to move away despite the low gearing
	and when I arrived at a steep hill on a main road junction
	decided extra measures were necessary.

	I waited for a gap in the traffic revved it like billyo and
	let the clutch out in no uncertain manner. For once it really
	did take off - backwards!. A good job no-one was behind!.

	-John

    To stall this rathole.
    
    The diesel engine on the Discovery is 2.5 Ltr, turbo.
    
    The petrol engine is a 3.5 Ltr, V8.
    
    I am not interested in petrol vs diesel pulling power, power ratio,
    or anything; I'm sure there's a rathole note in this conference
    somewhere.      
    
    I expressed an opinion that I found the petrol engine quieter, and
    with one litre capacity more to play about with, I should expect
    bags more power. Now when I put my foot down, when driving the diesel
    power Discovery, it did not hang about, it went.
    
    And in terms of noisyness, the diesel engine in the Discovery is
    a new unit. I am sure that it will get quieter as it gets developed.
    
    So please, I am interested in the Discovery. Please keep this note
    on this topic.
    
    Angus

Re 855.53

�          revved it like billyo and
�	               let the clutch out in no uncertain manner.
      
Well John, you are never going to borrow my Landrover, unless of course you 
have �600 cash as a deposit.

My Landrover has a 3.3 lt Perkins Diesel, that way is the quickest way to break
teeth on the gearbox.

I do hope the owner of the Landrover you borrowed doesn't know how you treat 
the poor thing. I don't have any problems pulling away, yes it is a bit slow,
but not as bad as you give the impression.

Hill starts are very simple, it is almost impossible to stall the Perkins, so
you just hold the handbrake (or even hold the Landy on the clutch) until the 
engine note changes, then pull away. 

Simon (who's heart bleeds for the Landy that you drove).

Firstly the "diesel is new" argument isn't entirely true: it is a new head on 
the older (2.4 litre) engine...

The gear box layout is not untypical on an off-road vehicle: the last thing you
want when trying to rock yourself out of gummy mud is a "safety lock" preventing 
you quickly shifting from first to reverse.

Reverse is next to first not second because the second last thing you want is to
accidentally slam it into reverse at 3000 rpm when trying to shift up to second
(ask Simon French, and possibly others how expensive a gearbox rebuild is [and 
no - Simon didn't break his box this way...])

So the gear box is correct for the purpose the vehicle was designed for.

As for little engines: my MP thinks that 2500 cc DIESELS may get a tax break 
in the budget (being green machines) .... we'll see :-)

and finally if the thing isn't fast enough there are two alternatives:

1) for �6374, JE Motors of Coventry will bore out the 3500cc engine to 4.3 
litres, whence it produces 220 bhp @ 5000 rpm and 265 lb.ft of torque @ 3500 rpm
(they are working on bigger, and turbocharged bore-outs...)

2)DPR can fit a supercharger (which can later be removed and moved to other 
cars), this gives 280 lb.ft of torque @ 3200 rpm and 220 bhp - whence it does 
0-60 in under 8 seconds and 50-70 mph in 4.4 seconds...

(Incidentally the DPR supercharger can also be fitted to TVR 350, BMW 325i, and 
even the Ford Sierra 2.9 4x4s...)

/. Ian .\

>  As for little engines: my MP thinks that 2500 cc DIESELS may get a tax break 
>  in the budget (being green machines) .... we'll see :-)
   
    Tell me more, tell me more! This could be the difference between
    me getting a Discovery or not.
    
> and finally if the thing isn't fast enough there are two alternatives:
                  
    Its plenty fast enough.
    
    Though a question. The diesel is a turbo. How does this work on
    the Discovery i.e. is turbo always engaged or only when I give it 
    welly?
    
    When I whacked the accelerator down, to get around a cyclist, I didn't 
    notice any lag.
    
    Angus

    re two back.....     
                    
    Ian, are you positive on your comment about the diesel engine merely
    being a re-head job on the 2.4L? All the lit that I have suggests
    that the engine is all new..... possibly even of Italian (at least
    foregn) origin.           

Yes I'm positive: the only differences are that (a) a different head, and (b)
the flow through some of the plumbing is reversed: the one main production line
makes both of them (one of the early articles in a 4x4 mag spent about 3 pages
talking about the engine, and this point was raised along with the comment 
that production will phase over from the 2.4 diesel to the 200 TDi)

As for turbo lag: I'm told that the turbo cuts in just above idling - after 
all it wouldn't make sense having it come in at 3500 rpm, since the engine is
power limited to 4000 rpm...

As for the MP: well he just bought a Disco, and I think its a company car (for
his other job...) so perhaps he really knows, though personally I'd be surprised

/. Ian .\

    re.57 no Turbo lag
    
    It is the same in the Volvo it feels like a bigger capacoty N/A
    engine rather that a TurboDiesel.
    
    Grant

    Now I've had a go!
    
    I drove the TDi (or is it the Tdi?)from Julians. I found it a very
    pleasant animal, and not at all diesel like. It did have a resonance,
    but the salesman said that this was a problem on that particular
    vehicle. Their other Tdi doesn't have the same noise.
    
    Most of the other comments I'd echo, especially the very early comment
    about the sterring and the tendency for the driver to oversteer. We
    zig-zagged for the first half mile of my drive until I got used to it!
    
    The kids thought the two extra back seats were great (with lap belts).
    
    Didn't get a chance totry the V8 petrol, but I don't think I want to be
    in that fuel consumption league again for a while......
    
    I notice the quotes have come down from the original 64xx to 57xx.
    Anyone know why?

    p.s. I wonder what the diesel would be like on a long run? Anyone tried
    it?
    
    JtheK

Anyone know if/when there's likely to be a US version of the Discovery?

The local dealer hadn't a clue, although the price he quoted was fabulous,
including delivery if I wanted it.

FWIW, Land Rover don't export diesels to the US simply because of some
homologation rules?  Least, that's what the man said!

There won't be a Disco in the states until the 5 door comes out (later this
year) because the US in a swingeing attempt at blatant protectionism charges
an arbitrary 25% penalty import levy on 3 door vehicles that they class as 
"sport utilities".

Informed rumour is that a Discovery 3.9 liter, cat converter, "value pack",
remote control radio and air conditioning will go one sale in the states in 
time for the 1991 model year - probably at about $25,000 (to keep it competitive
with the Jeep Grand Wagoneer and Toyota Land Cruiser).  (This version will cost 
about �21000 when it goes on sale here, but our taxes are so high that the US 
dollar price is lower than the untaxed UK price, so it doesn't run foul of the 
US anti-dumping regulations).

/. Ian .\

>>              <<< Note 855.61 by VOGON::KAPPLER "John Kappler" >>>
    
>>    I drove the TDi (or is it the Tdi?)from Julians. I found it a very
    
    Is it really called the TDi?, Does the i stand for anything else apart
    from injection?. .All Diesels by the fundaments by which
    they work are injection, there's no such thing as a non-injection
    diesel. 
    
    Richard

isn't there such a thing as direct injection with diesels? (relatively new)

...art

	All diesel engines are direct injection.

	-John

    Except for indirect injection diesels, where the fuel is injected into
    a spearate chamber rather than the main combustion chamber.
    
    Brian

    The majority of diesel engines in cars are use a system where the fuel
    is injected into a small ante-chamber where it starts it ignite before
    swirling into the main cylinder, I believe this is called the recardo
    method after the inventor. The advantages are a better control of burn,
    a smaller chamber to pre-heat.
    
    Direct injections squirt it directly into the main cylinder as per
    petrol injections. This method is supposed to produce more power, but
    it is more difficult to control the burn, and thus its potentially
    noisier, causes more vibration, and it causes more polution (the montego
    direct-injection engine has a 'waiver' as it cannot pass current EEC
    polution regulations). 
    
    
    Richard

    
     Except that in petrol injection, the petrol is injected into the inlet
    manifold, usually onto the back of the inlet valve. So, when the valve
    opens, the petrol-air mixture is drawn into the cylinder, and is
    subsequently processed as in any other petrol motor. 
     I am told that if petrol is injected directly into the
    cylinder, as in the case where a diesel car has petrol mistakenly put
    into the tank, because of the fast combustion of the fuel, an
    uncontrolled explosion will result.
     But, as an aside, I believe that Mr. Sarich, an inventor of a rotary
    engine, of West Australia, has perfected a method of direct cylinder
    injection of petrol, using an air blast. This engine is a 2-stroke.
    Regards, Ray.

    
    I saw my first 'live' Discovery close-up yesterday - it was in Queens
    House car park. Looks interesting, maybe I'll go along to Julians to
    have an even closer look! 
    
    Elaine

    Well, I gotta maka decision. 
    
    To help me make that, I need a favour from a LR Discovery driver.
    
    My current vehicle (Renault Savanna TXE) has proven itself incapable of
    towing my large (six berth Piper) caravan. Before I splash out and
    exchange the Renault for a Discovery (which I figure should be able o
    tackle the job...... ;^)....) I'd like to try one out. We are off up to
    the dales the week after Easter for a few days far from the madding
    crowd and I would like to know if there are any Discovery drivers out
    there that would be prepared to do a swap for the week so I can make a
    decision based on fact rather than unverified opinion.
    
    Any takers out there? It'd need to be the diesel (who can afford 13mpg
    these days?) and have the additional seats in the rear and a towbar (!)
    but outside that I'm not fussy.
    
    Mail me on CHEFS::CLEMENTSD or Dick Clements @RDL or give me a call on
    7899-5777.

    Doubt if he'll lend you it, but my brother-in-law regularly tows his
    monstrous caravan for long distances with his Discovery TD.
    
    
    John

    Being kinda sneaky I was hoping that I could test out whether the kids
    would tolerate the "almost seats" that fill the loadspace over a
    reasonable length journey. 
    
    The one thing that the Savanna does is to seat six people in relative 
    comfort. About the ONLY thing that it does do, but that's another story.
    
    We are talking "Swap for a period" here, don't want to deprive anybody
    of wheels.

You're not selling the Renault 21 TXE too well!

I'd lend you my Renault 5GTT (I've been dying to use
the towbar!), but I gather the maximum towing weight
is 15cwt.

Mark.

    The TXE is OK if you don't want to tow a 'van...... I'd be interested
    in hearing from anybody that would take over the lease if I manage to
    convince myself that I could live with a Discovery.

Hi Dick,

Sorry if you've already said this, but have you discounted the Espace.

I tried one over the weekend, and thought it was wonderful. Performance was
good (about equivalent to an 1800 Cavalier at a guess), and the handling
excellent. Space inside was huge, and it would probably tow well.

Add to that reasonable economy, and a good interior (better than R21 from
memory), and the Espace looks like an excellent alternative to the Discovery.

Mark.

    Tried the Espace a while back. Ruled it out on the following grounds:
    
    1	Same engine/drivetrain as the 21 (2L inj variant).... so will have
    the same problem as the 21 in that area. Is in fact slightly heavier
    than 21 estate, so towing capacity slightly reduced.
    
    2	Don't like the driving position.
    
    3	The screen demister is incapable of keeping the screen and side
    windows clear when there are more than 4 bodies in the vehicle.
    
    4	The beast is great for transporting lotsa bodies but pretty useless
    for all the attendant baggage/boxes/bags etc. It doesn't use the
    available space at all well.
    
    5	Expensive.
    
    6	Judging the position of the corners for parking etc isn't as easy
    as I'd like it to be.
    
    7	Poor fuel consumption (bit of a housebrick when it comes to forcing
    its way through the air.....).
    
    8	Rearwards vision is at best restricted.
    
    I have to admit that on paper it would seem to be a contender, but the
    reality is far from the promise......
    
    Thanks for the thought, though.

�    5	Expensive.
�    
�    6	Judging the position of the corners for parking etc isn't as easy
�    as I'd like it to be.
�    
�    7	Poor fuel consumption (bit of a housebrick when it comes to forcing
�    its way through the air.....).
�    
�    8	Rearwards vision is at best restricted.
�    
    
    I would've thought the LR product failed at least 3 of the above 4 points.
    
    J.R.

    Expensive is relative: spend �17K on a LR and you have a chance that
    the thing will still be roadworthy in 20yrs time. I'd like to see that
    happen with an Espace......
    
    Corners..... maybe, but the shape of the Espace with that long sloping
    screen/front end doesn't help too much. 
    
    Fuel consumption..... Overall the TDi Discovery will probably be as
    economical if not better than the Renault and that's based on personal
    experience of 3yrs driving a Savanna. It will definately be a better
    tow vehicle than the Savanna...... I averaged 18mpg towing my van in
    France last summer with the car at the limit of it's towing capability.
    Before anybody says that I am asking too much of the car the van has
    been weighed and is about 30Kg over the max gross towable weight
    stated in the handbook. Part of the exercise in trying to borrow a
    Discovery for a week is to see how well it does tow over a reasonably
    long journey and whether we could live with one as regular family
    transport....... and to try to get a reasonable chance of a significant
    personal investment lasting an acceptable time before needing to be
    repeated. 

    Dick,
    
    If you're thinking of making this a lease vehicle, I should get in
    quick. There's a quote under RANGE Rover Discovery which is more than
    �1000pa cheaper than those under LAND Rover Discovery (Doesn't have any
    extras though)!!
    
    JK_who_thinks_the_lease_costs_for_Discos_are_outrageous_in_their_fluctuations

    Bit of rathole...
    
    Quotes for the Discovery are not the only quotes which seem to
    be haywire right now. See 802.55 for some examples.
    
    Rich
    

    
    Quotes for *range* rover discos have consistantly been much lower than
    *land* rover discos.
    
    I put this down to the fact that Glass's Guide lists Range Rover discos
    (and hence the lease companies see what a good deal they are) but don't
    list Land Rover *anything* (and hence LR Discos look like a bad risk to
    simple minded quote processors at the leasing companies).
    
    /. Ian .\
    
    PS: I get 30mpg from my company Espace. A diesel Disco I have some
    experience with turns in 36 mpg.

    I agree, but the Discovery seems to have varied outrageously in the few
    months since its introduction. The very first quotes were in the order
    of �47xx, soon followed by �5xxx, then �6xxx and now they're regularly
    �7xxx. Given the price hasn't changed in those months, the high resale
    value it's likely to attract, it all seems most peculiar.
    
    JK

    
    Ah yes, but when they first appeared there were only 3 door Discos. Now
    there is a three door (�17300 for the TDi) and a 5 door (�19785 for the
    TDi). My guess is that there is about �4000 difference in the purchase
    prices of the dearest and cheapest packages being quoted on VTX at the
    moment.
    
    /. Ian .\

    Thanks for all the effort thats gone into the last two or three. I have
    a slight problem in that my current leasemobile (the Savanna) is only 6
    months old and according to the Car Fleet peoples "swaps aren't
    allowed" I'll have to see if that extends to finding someone to take my
    lease over to allow mne to change vehicles. I am **VERY** suspicious of
    any oprice shown on VTX.... if only 'cos there's the caveat in the
    small print that they don't constitute binding offers to us and we'll
    get stuck with whatever the lease comp[any wants to charge. I suppose
    that we are now well and truly down the Lease scheme bashing rathole
    now..........
    
    Brian, we conversed in the past about the Espace (are you still driving
    the almost-totally rebuilt one?) and on long trips I can get about
    35-36mpg out of the Savanna. As soon as you put in 5 passengers it
    drops to about 32mpg and with a full "boot" to about 30mpg. Around town
    we seemmto be unable to average better than 24ish mpg. Maybe that's
    because the traffic local to Newbury isn't stop/start it's stop/wait
    forever and a day in a queue/start/move a few yards/stop..........
    
    It's the towing ability/people carry ability/longevity (I'd buy it at 
    the end of the lease)/economy that I'm after.......

    re .86 ....
    
    For Brian read Ian. Sorry for the disengaged brain.

    
    Yep - I've still got a few months to go on my rebuilt Espace. It now
    audibly creaks when going over hump back bridges and potholes, and the
    doors tend to stick a bit. It may be my imagination but I fancy it is
    falling apart...
    
    I'm researching a reasonable quote to ask for on a Disco - especially
    now they are going to let us buy them at the end of the lease again...
    I wonder how the leasing companies will react to full underbody
    protection (the Southdown 5 piece belly armour) and a decked full
    length roofrack (third party custom work)?
    
    /. Ian .\

    specify it on the quote. I always work on the basis that the customer
    (i.e. you or I) knows what they want and the supplier should work
    around that...... however you may not like the price they ask for...

    Has anyone got any idea how much it costs to convert a Discovery from
    LHD to RHD? 

    
    why bother?
    
    You're high enough up to see over the car in front and the acceleration
    is sluggish enough you can't overtake anyway :-)
    
    /. Ian .\

    A question (or three) for all you experts out there.....
    
    1	What are the things to look for on a second-hand Discovery? (apart
    from all the usual things that one would look for on an "ordinary"
    vehicle.
    
    2	Can the Fairey overdrive that is described in the current L-R
    brochure be fitted to a Didcovery?
    
    3	Ditto free-wheel front hubs?
    
    Given that I still think the vehocle to be a **WEE** bit overpriced at
    new cost, what age/mileage would be the best buy? This vehicle will be
    in use every day so I don't want to end up with an unreliable one. Are
    there any years/variants to steer clear of?
    
    All help greatly appreciated.
    
    Dick.
    

    Having struggled along with one car for the past three years, we've had
    to admit defeat (blamed on force of circumstance) and need to bump up
    to a 2 car family, with 1.0 kids. We both test drove the 2.summatorother
    Tdi Discovery some years back and really liked it; which is great as
    she will be the principle user, dropping sprog off in the morning
    before fighting her way to work, and doing reverse in t'evening.
    
    I haven't kept up with new Discoveries, other than noticing there is a
    five door version and a 2ltr diesel power unit. I did notice, however,
    that in the recent Which and Top Gear surveys the Disco came out
    rather badly. What I am not sure about is how representative these
    surveys were e.g. one, disgruntled Disco owner takes part in the Top
    Gear survey, while ten thousand satified owners didn't; though it was
    interesting the the chap said he'd buy another Disco.
    
    So, in addition to the questions posed by Dick in -.1 is there any
    advice that noters can pass my way with regard to Discos? A couple of
    questions that pop to mind...
    
    1. Given that we're going for the diesel unit (our wages don't extend
    to subsidising private oil wells) which one would be the 'better', the
    2ltr or the 2.summatorother ltr?
    
    2. Should I persuade the bank it would be a good idea to fund us buying
    a new Disco or should we look at second hand models; bearing in mind
    the 1st August is but around the corner and post 1st should see some
    bargains.
    
    3. Is it easy to remove bull bars from a second hand car without
    damaging the car?
    
    Thanks,
    Angus

I thought the Frontera and the Maverick diesels were slow - until I 
tried a 2 litre Discovery :-(

    
    Ummm. A Discovery for taking the kids to school...
    
    Mark 

    
    Mark, you've mis-read the note - 'kid' isn't plural !
    
    Graham

    Well, I looked at the Disco just before I bought my 405 GLDT Estate,
    almost 3 years ago. I have three children, and have a rather more
    pressing need for the space than you do! Anyway, we decided that it was
    a) too slow, b) too thisty, and c) too expensive. We also have no need
    whatsoever for off-road capabilities, and the Disco is, after all, a
    'real' 4WD off-roader.
    
    The bottom line was that the costs were too high, and it was too slow
    for long-distance motorway use. Additionally, the 405 GLDT Estate has
    more luggage space, and the children were more comfortable in the back.
    Come November, we're buying a Pug 806 because three years on, the
    children are a little larger (14/10/8) and we now need more room. Would
    I buy a Disco? Yes, if a) I wanted to pose, or b) I needed the off-road
    capabilities, or c) both of those. I'd say that as an urban runabout,
    if costs are an option, you'd be crazy to buy one. YMMV as they say.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

This month's What Car magazine coincidentally has a 4 page guide to
buying a Discovery, if you're interested...

Chris.

re.97:

Some people buy these for their 'built like a tank' appeal and 'see for miles'
driving position.

Dave.

    Re .98 Thanks! I'll be getting a copy this lunchtime.
    
    Re .99 Yep, those are prime considerations, plus we're used to the
    driving position. Since our need for the second vehicle, I've taken
    note of 'off-roaders' and noticed that alot of women drive Discos and  
    'off-roaders', dropping sprogs off; and I certainly remember a Top Gear 
    feature on this same subject i.e. women buying these cars.
    
    
    Angus

    Angus,
    
    The 2 ltr variant is petrol. It uses the Rovers 820 engine.
    
    Be careful with this one, as it uses a lot more fuel than the 2.5 Ltr
    diesel variant.
    
    Andy

    They're good fun Angus, my wife has one and uses it for the 
    sprog-work-sprog run and general runabout at weekends.
    
    Ours is the 2.5 TdiS, 5 door with lots of goodies. Its second hand 
    (although a Company Car) and she got it with about 18K on the clock -  
    we've added another 10K in about 6 months - absolutely trouble free.
    (Its even been offroad twice - shock horror).
    Its generally a good product and you get an awful lot of tin for your 
    money. I believe they've now sold about 17,000 of these and its the 
    top selling 4x4 in the UK, outselling the no. 2 4x4, Frontera, by 2:1 
    !!
    
    If you go second hand, have a real good look in all the nooks and 
    crannies for rust and check underneath. As usual, a RAC/AA survey 
    would probably be a good investment. 
    
    I think we get about 28-30 to gal, and it needs an oil top up of 
    about a litre per 5 thou (which apparently is the norm). Motorway 
    cruising is ace - I actually prefer it to my Audi. 
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    Steve
    
    
    
    
    

    Re .101 Thanks, Andy. God knows where my single brain cell got the idea
    that the 2ltr version was diesel. I bought Whatcar (suggested by Chris)
    and they suggest not touching the 2ltr (MPi) version with a bargepole.
    
    Re .102 Hi Steve, still around. Did Ian Waring drop you a line? Thanks
    for posting your experiences. We thought the one we test drove years
    ago was wonderful, but couldn't afford it, even on the old car scheme.
    
    I must admit though that I'm intrigued by the new Ford Galaxy/VW
    Sharan. Can't say I'm taken by the shape, but I want to see the
    head-to-head report against the Espace, next month. Even though I had a
    minor heart attack and immediatly started brushing up on my
    'grovel-to-bank-manager' techniques when I saw the prices of Discos,
    I'm still inclined to get one for my wife on the sprog-work-sprog run.
    She has to negotiate a couple of tricky country lanes (e.g. Manns hill,
    aka suicide alley) where we often encounter prats (completely oblivious
    to the concept of two way traffic) coming round blind corners, on our
    side of the road. I would feel better knowing she and sprog were in
    something that stood a fair chance against a Sherman tank.
    
    Angus

    Anorak of the week award goes to anyone who can answer this question.
    
    Park up a Discovery or a Range Rover (original version) next to a
    Morris Marina and see if you can spot any similarities ?
    
    

    A few guesses :-
    
    Headlights?
    
    Door handles? (ahh, no....you would have said Lotus Esprit as well)
    
    Barry.
     

    
    an answer or an old joke, not an  opinion :-
    
    All the pricks are on the inside ?
    
    G.

    Flat cap on driver?
    
    Switch gear?
    
    Andrew

Anyone know what the difference is between the older 200 TDi and the 
later 300 TDi engines in the Discovery? (besides 100 :-) Are either 
Perkins/VM/... diesels or are they LR roll-your-owns?

- John.

To answer my own question :-)

The 300 TDi is an 'improved' version of the 200 TDi. Emisions were 
reduced by modified combustion chambers and changes to the EGR 
system. These changes also reduced the noise of this direct-injection 
engine and made a marginal improvement in economy. The torque and 
power output remained unchanged.

BTW - it is a Perkins engine developed with LR.

- John.

    I thought I would contribute my experiences of nearly 2 years and 35k
    miles with my Discovery TDi leasemobile. It was 1 year and 18k miles
    old when I took it over and has worked fairly hard in the meantimem
    usually travelling a little bit quicker than average, I suspect.
    
    The main problem has been very poor build quality derived from
    insufficient product development, mine by the way is a Feb '93 K reg.
    
    So far, the following problems have occurred :
    
    inumerable oil leaks from front axle, sump and head gasket, new sump,
    new gasket, new front subframe (old one twisted), blown head gasket
    replaced.
    constant problems with accurately checking oil level. 2 months ago, the
    dealer decided that the dipstick was TOO SHORT and replaced with the
    correct length item ...... ( I was speechless at that one )
    rear internal trim panels replaced due to warpage caused by severe
    water leaks from the rain channel seam
    Driver's window winder fell to pieces in my hand
    Rear view mirror dropped off the screen
    clutch got air locks in the fluid and dropped to the floor on several
    occasions without disengaging the clutch (yiikkes !)
    the fuel gauge is erratic and untrustworthy
    the rear door lets water in
    the door windows keep rattling in their channels
    steering shake recurrs despite regular balancing
    Scariest of all was the time that the engine stopped at 75 mph in the
    overtaking lane of the A34 North of  Newbury ..... overtaking a car ...
    and suddenly ..... it went quiet ...... lost power steering (luckily
    going quick enough that this wasn't too much of a problem) ... got back
    to the left lane and pulled off the road ...... a connector plug and
    vibrated free of its connection to the injection pump, cutting the
    fuel.
    
    On the PLUS side, (and despite ALL this) it is a well loved car in the
    family, my two small daughters love it, my wife feels secure driving it
    and the interior is very flexible. We have had two very memorable
    holidays in it.
    
    In terms of living with it day to day, it is VERY demanding to drive
    distances on motorways at 75-80 mph, it is noisy, sidewinds throw it
    around and it gets incredibly hot in summer. Conversely it takes
    FOREVER to warm up in the winter, partly because of its engine-driven
    fan. I have had a lot of fun driving it however .... when you learn,
    you can really lean it into bends .... it has more torque than the V8
    so 'torque surfing' in traffic and on country roads is fun
    
    I won't be getting another for work, but will remember this one rather
    fondly despite the problems .......
    
    Mark
    

    Mark,
    
    From your comments I reckon this would be classed as a good buy?
    
    Form a orderly queue please.
    
    Dave

    Dave
    
    On the basis that everything that might break has now broken and been
    replaced ........ I suppose it might be ......
    
    8)
    
    Mark
    

    
    Does anyone have any experience of fitting a Kenlowe electric fan to a
    Discovery?
    
    How difficult is it?
    
    Does it make any difference to fuel consumption etc.?
    
    If it makes the fuel savings Kenlowe claim are possible (8.7%), I would get
    the money back in about 6 months.
    
    Any input welcome.
    
    Geoff