Conference terri::cars_uk

    Interesting mod. applied to mine this morning,
    
    a clip change (not a chip change)
    
    resulting in decreased of boost pressure to NIL !
    
    
    Actually, a jubilee clip failed to do its job and let
    the air intake hose pop off the end of the intercooler.
    
    This meant that any boost generated by the turbo was
    just blown into the engine bay, whereas air intake was
    handled as a normal 'atmo' engine.
    
    Surprising how well the engine performed after this change.
    It had no problems with M-way traffic, going up to normal
    speeds in the outside (only ?) lane.
    
    Didn't like accelerating too much though.
    
    
    Luckily, the clip did not disappear altogether, so I
    have now increased engine power and response noticeably
    by performing lunch-time modification...replacing the clip.
    

    Latest development, trying out a new tyre size.
    
    This one has is a 115/70 of some sort - yes, the space saver.
    
    Not much fun.
    
    Even less fun is the cost of a replacement alloy, #176.73 + VAT.
    
    Cause of damage was a 'pot-hole' in the road, which I managed to
    find at about 40 mph.  Result was a bent rim and a flat tyre.
    
    J.R.

>>    Cause of damage was a 'pot-hole' in the road, which I managed to
>>    find at about 40 mph.  Result was a bent rim and a flat tyre.
 

Could be worth sending the bill to the local council.  They have been known to 
pay up in the past, particularly if the pot-hole was a really bad one.  (I got
a new Spitfire exhaust system many moons ago from S Yorks council after their
"repair" ripped it off.)

		Brian

    Photograph the hole before sending the letter, otherwise it may well be
    a case of "hole? what hole?".
    
    mb

    There is an article in Performance CAR this month (April issue)
    describing 'buying a used Lancia Integrale'.
    
    It covers the HF 4WD, integrale and the 16-valve, with a mention
    of the forthcoming 'evolution version'.
    
    J.R.

Hi, 
	I'm thinking of buying a second hand Integrale 16v in the UK. 

	1. Can anybody suggest any good dealers? 

	2. I've read most of the stuff in the notes and the Performance Car 
	   article of April '91. Are there any other articles worth reading? 

	3. Are there any other things to look out for, (after wheel damage etc)?

	4. Is the insurance as much as the car? 

	5. Should I be basket weaving?

Ian. 

    
    1. Clover Leaf Garage on the A30 near Basingstoke often have one or two
       Integrale in stock. In addition, pick up a copy of Motoring News
       and/or Autosport - They often have Integrale dealers advertising.
    
    2. All Integrale articles end the same - BUY ONE!!! I can't recall
       where I read it (A&M long term?), but one (at least) magazine had
       lots of trouble with the electrics.
    
    3. Personally I'd avoid chipped cars and anything other than a dealer
       fitted RHD conversion - I assume you want a RHD car, otherwise don't
       buy in the UK - Germany (and no doubt Belgium) will be much cheaper.
       Servicing costs are high compared with the 16v shopping cars, but
       when you consider the performance then it's probably pretty cheap to
       run. The 16V will run on unleaded or 4 star petrol.
    
    4. Insurance in the UK has sky-rocketed recently on all cars. However, 
       when I looked at a 16V Integrale I got a quote for only about �100
       more than my 16V Calibra, which seemed very reasonable.
    
    If you've driven one of these cars you'll already be convinced you want
    one, if not just wait 'til you do. They're absolutely brilliant! 
    
    Mark
    
    PS Of course, I decided that my licence was a bit too important to me
    to risk becoming an Integrale owner! :^)

�	1. Can anybody suggest any good dealers? 

    As Mark mentioned, Clover Cleaf Cars on the A30 sell a number of them,
    and there are always a lot of dealers advertising in Exchange & Mart.
    
�	2. I've read most of the stuff in the notes and the Performance Car 
�	   article of April '91. Are there any other articles worth reading? 

    CAR magazine included a 'second-hand buy' write-up on the integrale,
    which I think I have at home.  I can send you a copy if you let me
    know your mail stop.  I do have all sorts of write-ups on the car,
    not one of which had a negative conclusion.
    
�	3. Are there any other things to look out for, (after wheel damage etc)?

    Service history - as you would expect.  Tyres wear out quickly, but even
    more so when the geometry (tracking, castor and camber) goes out - which
    it does quite frequently (the 16v is better than the 8v in this respect).
    Checking and re-setting the suspension geometry isn't too cheap.
    
    The collection of dials on the dashboard have a habit of not all
    working at the same time - sort of thing one expects from Italian electrics.
    It never bothered me, the warning lights (at least the petrol one)
    always worked even if the guage was 'sleeping' on any occasion.
    
    Note that a new water pump requires an engine-out job, as I am sure
    many other 'simple' jobs may do, so the car has the potential for
    being very expensive to run.  The clutch has a hard life, as the wheels
    *do not* spin even under extreme provocation.  Check for clutch slip.
    
    I would probably avoid a chipped-up car, and then go to BBR to get
    it done myself.  As far as one can tell, their conversion is good,
    whereas there are some others which certainly are not.
    
    Note also that the new 16v 'finale' or 'evolution' model has a different
    chip mapping that does a lot to improve the low-end response of the
    engine, which isn't very good on the earlier 16v.
    
�	4. Is the insurance as much as the car? 

    Not from my experience.  But insurance has gone up lots since I got
    rid of mine.  I often regret it, but I wanted to sort out some dosh
    at the time and was getting a nervous twitch when driving - wondering
    whether I would lose my license for enjoying myself so much...
    
�	5. Should I be basket weaving?
    
    Definitely not.  But maybe a radar detector would be a useful extra,
    would that make you a radio ham ?
    
    J.R.

	Thanks for .31 & .32.
	
	Who does one get to check out a car like this for you? I'm sure your 
average AA/RAC car-checker-outer would be a bit out of their depth.

Ian.

�	Who does one get to check out a car like this for you? I'm sure your 
�average AA/RAC car-checker-outer would be a bit out of their depth.
    
    I've no idea who would be best to give on of these cars a serious
    look-over.  Buying from a Lancia dealer who specialises in these
    models *may* prove to be worthwhile.  AA/RAC would probably still
    be useful in checking for accident damage, worn joints, etc - if
    you don't want to rely on your own judgement.
    
    J.R.

    
    Richard Thorne of Mike Spence Classic cars would most likely
    do this for you should you ask but I've no idea what he would
    charge.
    
    I've been to his garage a few times when I had my Beta Coupe
    and spent alot of time looking at and talking about the cars
    that were having work done at the time from complete ground
    up restorations to normal engine servicing.
    
    I found him a bit of a "I've done this and that" merchant (I expect
    he has as well) but he does know what he's talking about. I remember
    the original 037 he had. Gleaming red, beautiful car. Anyway I've just
    looked for the number and cannot find it. When I find a phone book I'll
    get it for you unless someone else has it to hand.
    
    JN.

	I'm going to look at an Integrale next weekend in
London, and I wondered if anybody who reads this conference
knows of the car.
	It was advertised in the E&M of 3-SEP-1992 as:

	Integrale 16V, lhd, 1990 G, graphite, a/c, leather,
etc, etc.

	The vendor is a company called Shortbay.

	Any info would be useful.

Ian.

P.S. 	Does anybody have the address/'phone no of the 
	Lancia Owners club and/or know of any insurance
	companies that don't laugh at you when you put 
	the two phrases "Integrale" and "12 month Green
	Card" in one sentence.
	 

    See also Note 622...
    
    One point to consider is that wheels have not been clouted (especially
    if run in London) and that geometry has been checked/reset regularly.
    
    J.R.

	Well, I went to see this Integrale at the weekend. It's true, once you've
driven one, theres no turning back.

	It was a bit tatty, but it has spent three years in London. The nearside
front wheel had been scraped a bit, but the thing went in a straight line ok.

	It seems like a reasonable deal. The chap wants ten and a half for a 
three year old car with 33k Km on the clock, leather, a/c, ABS, sunroof, FHS.

	If I can find a reasonable insurance deal, I'll be seriously tempted.

	If anybody has come across anything better, let me know.

Ian.

    
    10.5k for a tattyish Integrale doesn't sound good. Check out the
    classifieds in Motoring News, there are always Integrales in there and
    at lower prices than you quote.
    
    Mark

Check out the second-hand prices in Germany... 10k for a 1 year old Integrale +
importation would seem a far better deal... it just depends if you want to do it
that way... anyone know of companys that would handle this for you? I seem to 
remember Cartel (?) 

Of course, there's no problems with left-hand drive anyway!

	Surely by the time you've added import taxes, and all the other bits and 
pieces, you're up in the 12-13k bracket.

Ian.

Still, 12K is pretty cheap for a 1 year old 25k car!

    RE .39
    
    	There is only one sort of Integrale worth buying and that's
    	a minter, anything tatty is not worth bothering with, very 
    	expensive potentially.
    
    	A friend of mine bought whta he thought was a minter except for the
    	fact that the front wing had been sprayed.  Turned out it had been
    	involved in a frontal stack and was completely twisted, drove
    	really well except it ate tyres, 225/50's are quite expensive.
    
    
    		Chris
    

    Re .44
    
    Is that for the so-called "Elephant" version? IE the new model?
    
                                                    

    
�anyone know of companies that would handle this for you? I seem to 
�remember Cartel (?) 
    
    I bought my 8-valve Integrale through Cartel.  Nice and painless.
    That was on a new car.  Not sure if they dealt with second-hand models.
    Anyway, that company has since folded so that's irrelevant now.
    
�Check out the second-hand prices in Germany... 10k for a 1 year old Integrale +
�importation would seem a far better deal... it just depends if you want to do it
�that way...
    
    Any chance of entering some example prices/specifications in here ?
    Or perhaps sending a copy of the relevant 'classifieds' page(s) to
    me (John Rutter, F11.2 @ SBP) ?  Would be appreciated.
    
    If the prices are that good, I would consider buying another.
    My wife would quite like that too !
    
    J.R.

    	John,
    
    	  The example i gave was of a friend in Munich who is selling his,
    	not sure i know of  any magazines/papers etc... but  you could try 
    	asking in the Germany/Munich conferences.
    
    	Regards,
    
    
    					Lewis.

    Theres a few in A&M this week:
    
    april 92 22,000 miles ext warrenty the works.....11,750
    
    G plate 28,000....10,995
    
    G plate low mileage.......13,999
    
    90 G  twelve months warr.......10,995
    
    Also quite a few At Len Street Lancia garage in SW10 :
    
    92 on a J evolution 10,000 KM......21,995
    
    90 on a H 13,00 miles.........14,995
    
    90 on a H.....................14,995, 13,995
    
    90 on a G 5,000 miles......13,995
    
    90 on a G......12,995
    
    89 G..........11,995
    
    
    Theres a few to keep you going
    
    Regards Martin
    

	When I was up in London last weekend looking at this
Integrale, I went around to Len Street. If they haven't 
cleaned the showroom windows you'll still be able to see the
drool. The've got a new dark green Integrale with black leather 
etc, etc. 26.5K pounds! It's enough to make you take up bank 
robbing.

Ian.

�drool. The've got a new dark green Integrale with black leather 
    
    They have also had the same spec as this in Cloverleaf Cars, Old Basing.
    
    J.R.

    Anybody know what the relative torque improvement on rechipping
    a standard 8V Integrale, and could anybody recommend a reasonable
    company to perform such a delicate but interesting operation.
    
    Also, what about standard tuning of the timing  and such; who 
    knows any out of work ex-Lancia mechanics on the cheap who might
    be persuaded to lovingly service an engine for less than the 
    average monthly fuel bill. 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Margot (note entered on behalf of a friend who has just discovered
    how much it costs to maintain one of these beasts!!)

    See the numerous notes entered by Rut-the-Nut (*::RUTTER) in this stream.
    He has his 8V chipped by BBR Racing and was very pleased with the improved
    power and (especially) torque.
    
    	Rik-the-Mut :-)

	The latest edition of 'Performance Car' has a 
	number of ads for Delta chips. Even one from
	BBR I think. From memory the prices range from
	approximately 250 quid for just a new chip 
	upto about 3K to turn the thing into the
	starship enterprise.

	IMHO I don't really see much point in increasing
	the power of what is already a fairly powerfull
	motor.

	Ian.

	PS Does anybody have any inside info on the new
	Evoluzione due later this year. And/Or the new
	5 cylinder 20V engine.

Just remember that when you get a chipped engine to run better oil and change
it frequently. This is especially true with conversions which modify the fuel
system with enlarged injectors etc...

-Dave.

    Though I never drove it the young Mr Rutter swore by his chip
    conversion and would do it again, he (as is everyone I've spoked to)
    was very impressed by the quality of staff at BBR and their attitude.
    ''It makes the car so much more usable''
    
    	Rik
    
    PS: His was the old 8V and he had the BBR Phase-I conversion
    (Simple chip change).

    Well, this is a bit quiet, isn't it? Are there no Integrale
    owners left out there?

Nah....

	They've all moved up to Vauxhall's  


		-) !

    One... but not for very much longer....
    
    A sad farewell will be said to my three and half year old 16 valver this 
    coming week. 
    I don't know if it's just me, but the thing seems to be driving better
    than ever - typical eh?
    
    Al.

    So why are you getting rid then ?

    RE. -1
    Most of the mileage we do is LONG motorway journeys (ie. 6+ hours), and 
    although the Integrale is great fun for a few miles on the Motorway,
    after about 3 hours the noise gets tiring. Also, it's not much of a 4
    seater and the boot is not much use. So, in order to accommodate more
    booze when we go back to England, more wine when we come back through
    France, and any friends who might want to tag along, the Integrale has 
    been spurned for a motorway cruiser - but I'll miss it.
    
    It's been a superb car and I'd definately recommend them (so
    does anybody else who drives them). I'd dread to think what the
    insurance is in the UK, but I know the buying price is pretty
    reasonable both new and especially 2nd hand.
    
    If I'd have kept it, I think I might have treated myself to a BBR tune
    up for it, not that it *really* needs any more power, but it would have
    been fun!
    
    Al.

As one who has been a passenger with young Al, son of Wilcock, I can attest to
all he has said, and also add that they are BLOODY fast.

Y'alright sun ?
Smiss.

    
    Alreet Monsieur Smiss - did ya get yer Christmas card??
    
    I still maintain that the only way to drive an Integrale to it's limit
    is when you're pissed :^)   (errr....)
    
    Al.

    
    ....I'll ask then. What did you replace the 'grale with?
    
    Richard.

    
    A Thema V6. Ugly, but quiet and cormfortable and reasonably quick.
    
    I got it Friday, used it over the w/e and discovered the radiator had
    a leek - it's been in the garage since Monday morning...
    
    Al.

    Oh dear. A mate of mine did exactly the same as you and bought a Thema.
    He's been trying to persuade his wife that he needs to get rid of it as
    soon as possible saying that he feels like an old man all of a sudden
    instead of the boy racer he used to be. I guess it happens to us all
    :-(

    >>I guess it happens to us all..
    
    Yup, it's a bit sad really isn't it. Still, I got myself a motorbike
    for those times I feel like blowing the cob webs off.
    
    Al

   Yep, I think three and a half years is probably a good age
   to get rid of them. Mine's just coming up to four years old
   and it's just cost me one and a half grand in garage bills.

   It's got to go. It is a shame though. It's definitely the
   most fun you can have with your clothes on. Especially on
   country roads and the inner ring in Brussels.

   I've been hearing good reports about the new Subaru something
   or other. 2 Litre, 220 BHP, 4WD, ABS, 0-60<6.0. ???

   Ian.

    There are Subaru Imprezas in Japan which have suitable mechanicals. My
    local dealer says they MAY appear in Europe but don't hold your breath
    because of the EC import restrictions. You could however try a Subaru
    dealer in Switzerland (no import restrictions!), they seem to get all
    sorts of things we "Europeans" don't see. Then again you could always
    ask Prodrive!!

    
    Or try a Legacy (not quiet as much fun as an Integrale, though).
    
    Mark

    I think the Imprezas is the one I'm thinking of. A friend
    saw one at the Brussels Motor Show a few weeks back. He
    reported that they can now be seen and ordered in Brussels.
    Local price 1,060,000 BF, approx �19.5K including local
    VAT @ 19.5%. So for export your talking �15.5. Now, if that
    car is up to spec, that's a bloody good buy.

    Ian.

    Now I'm interested. If there is a way of getting one of these beast
    imported into the UK........ 
    
    Let me know if anyone gets any more details
    
    Mike

    
    There's a company in Fleet who specialise in importing rare Japanese
    cars which aren't available in the UK (Honda Beats, Suzuki Capuccinos
    until recently, Nissan Skyline GTRs (drool...),etc).
    
    You may find importing from Belgium will be 'easier', but you'll
    probably not be able to get a RHD car, so the direct from Japan route
    would be better.
    
    Mark

   It's my intention to find a local, (Brussels), Subaru dealer this
   week or next weekend to get the full SP on these. I'll report back.

   Ian.

    
    I was down in Lyndhurst (near the new forest)at the weekend and there's 
    a smart garage in the town centre with Jag's,Merc's,Maserati's 
    and 2 new Intergrale's.If your interested I can find out the name and
    number of the garage!
    
    Andy.

    It may be interesting to see what they're going for now.

    In the current issue of Top Gear magazine, there's an
    article comparing an Integrale to that Ford thing with 
    the coffee table on the back window. That article quotes 
    the new price as �25K.

    Ian.

    
    I read the article also,and was very impressed with the Intergrale.I
    think that i'd have it as opposed to the Ford,but I didn't think much
    of the interior.
    
                    
    Andy

    Let me tell you, you don't have time to look
    at the interior.

    Ian.

    I've been running around in my Integrale since last October and only
    just now thought to look for a note ........     ooops ...
    
    All the previous notes sum it up, VERY fast, lovely handling AND room
    for kids ... (I'm pretty sad as a parent, my 3 year old daughter is a
    'turbo-rush' addict)
    
    I'm glad I researched before buying though ...... there are many rough
    cars on the market and honest, clean as new, low milers come at a
    premium ..... still, it cost less than a new Fordy Escort, so it seemed
    like a good idea at the time.
    
    Insurance isn't TOO horrendous either ...... �800 for self and wife,
    full comp with protected no claims ......
    
    Main lesson learnt is that Dealer guarantees are only worth having with
    Integrales if they cover at least �1,000 PER CLAIM  ........ these are
    complex cars and it shows in labour costs !!
    
    Mark
     

    
    Which one did you get Mark, 8v or 16v?
    
    Al.

    Al,
    
    '89 16v ...... apparently its very different from the 8v, suspension,
    brakes, wheels, tyres, engine obviously, and F/R torque split .... as a
    well sideways moment exiting a wet roundabout testified recently ....
    
    ............ and I'm normally such a calm driver   :^)
    
    Interestingly, I've been playing with tyres recently ..... Michelin's
    were a bit iffy in the wet, but now have some Bridgestone RE71's back
    on ...... grip's much better ..... suspect wear rate will be higher but
    a touch of spooky torque steer seems to point to them taking a while to
    settle down. Current set up is Re71's on front, Mich Pilot SX's on
    rear ...... see how that goes ...
    
    I seem to drive it like a demented Golf GTi, leaning heavily on front
    end grip, whereas the 4wd torque split is rear-biased causing heavy
    rear tyre wear as the poor things struggle to maintain grip as I
    afterburner away from wet roundabouts ...
    
    NOTE standing starts are excluded, the only part of the drivetrain that
    CAN spin is the clutch ...........and I can't afford that this month
    ...
    
    Mark
     

    You may want to try Yoko 008P's. Nutter settled on this after trying
    various others (Re71, Michelin, Pirelli)
    
    	Rik

    
    re.83
    
    Wot you REALLY want for winter weather are a set of winter wheels and
    tyres... Now I just happen to have a set going very cheap.
    The tyres are on the normal Integrale styles alloys, but are 195s
    instead of 205s. They are BRILLIANT in the wet and ice and snow etc.
    
    I actually ejoyed driving the integrale more on them too, because you
    dont get any tramlining.
    I might even deliver if you're interested!
    
    Al.

    Surely there's some trade-off in the dry though.

    Another point, has anybody had ABS problems? The
    garage I use seems incapable of solving an ABS
    problem I have. The brakes seem to stick at very
    low speeds and the ABS warning light comes on 
    after a heavy bout of acceleration of braking.
    I actually managed to lock all four wheels the
    other day. Not a nice thing to do in an Intergale.

    Ian.
  

    >>Surely there's some trade-off in the dry though.
    
    Yes, I'd say so. But it's still VERY difficult to unsettle the car.
    They are directional tyres (can't remember the make), and seem to do
    a good job in the dry as well as the wet.
    The idea is just to have them on in the winter months though (it's dead
    easy changing wheels on the Integrale since the jack lifts both
    wheels).
    
    Re. ABS. I never had any trouble with the brakes. I'd try a different 
    garage though, I've had loads of trouble with them...
    
    Al.
    
    

    What condition are the wheels in? I could do
    with new wheels. Mine aren't round anymore.

    Ian.

    
    The wheels are in perfect condition, I only used them last winter,
    for about 4 or 5k km. The tyres are also in nearly new condition.
    
    200 quid and you can have 'em (I paid 700 quid a year ago...).
    
    Al.

    Where are you?

     ........ my wheels don't look that round anymore either .... can't
    afford to do anything about it though ......... ah well ...
    
    The Lancia Club are running a Circuit day at Goodwood this saturday ...
    I've booked in with the Integrale and very much looking forward to it
    ...... It's been a long held ambition to drive Goodwood and I'll
    probably enjoy it if I don't roll the car into a small ball ......
    
    Will post experiences on Monday. If you don't read it ..... I trashed
    the car - am hiding in a dark corner - and don't want to talk about it
    !!!!!!
    
    	Mark
    
    PS: Re: some back, thanks for the offer of the winter boots and wheels,
    looks like Mr. Zodiac Sloper can use them .....
    

    Mr Zodiac Sloper still doesn't know where the
    round wheels are.

    Ian.

    Well ... I survived Saturday..... and so did the car ... just.
    Lots of Integrales showed up, several Evo's, some BBR uprated cars,
    some with incredibly low suspension ...
    
    also loads of little Fulvias ................ and Fiat Unos which went
    unfeasibly fast.
    
    It was a hot day, the air reeked of fried brake pads and my car managed
    a puff or two of smoke from somewhere under the bonnet ...
    
    A Guy from the Integrale register 'Delta Force' told me all about my
    car, it featured in Performance Car apparently.
    
    The driving was lots of fun, but sobering as Goodwood is pretty tough,
    with lots of off camber corners, rough surfaces etc.
    
    One guy did a BIG spin and ended up in the rough.
    
    Also met the famous Rut-the-Nut .... there with his Alfa GTV6 - what a
    nice bloke.
    
    Enough already. My wife wants to know why I paid to indulge in activity
    that FRIED my tyres ..
    
    Er, um , well it's like this ... uuurrrmmmm ......
    
    		Mark
    

    Oh, sorry Mr Sloper I was on holiday....
    
    I'm in Munich. 
    Al.

    Mr. Sloper has left the company... He may be back at another site; if
    so, no doubt he'll post something here.
    
    Laurie$Sloper's_ex-colleague.

    
    Well the time has come to replace my car and I have decided that
    'One small step for man a giant leap for Mark Buxton' is required.
    I will be trading in/selling my reliable OK'ish Fiat Tipo in for 
    a Lancia DI. The Fiat has a distinctive lack of Ooooomph for my 
    liking and its time to get into something that will 'do the business'
    Now come the questions.....
    
    1. I see a couple are advertised in the local Paper this week One 
    of which is a 16v job, 1992 and 37,000km's on the clock. The asking 
    price is 90000 Francs (�10800). The other is also a 16v job but is 
    the Evolution version. This one has the same year, roughly the same 
    kilometers but costs 120000 Francs (144509). What do you get extra 
    for the 4 grand ? Is it really worth it ?
    
    2. Leading on from one what are the main differences between the 
    16v and the Evo versions apart from a remapped chip ?
    
    3. Whats the real term performance of these beasties ?
    
    4. Has anyone any articles from Magazines that you could 
    send/photocopy for me or would you care to kmake some comments here ?
    
    Thanks for any advice, obviously it is too early to buy the ones in the
    paper this week but in a month who knows.
    
    
    Mark Buxton.

    Ian Sloper has left the company, but here are some observations from
    an uninformed bystander who watched from afar so to speak.
    
    He paid about 10 grand and immediately spent another couple on a "big"
    service. He subsequently spent and ever-increasing amount of money
    keeping it on the road. He had trouble finding a garage competent to
    service it, and *everything* coat an arm and a leg. He thrashed the
    hell out of it, and when it started to go downhill, it did so fast.
    
    Conclusion? Be *very* careful of the condition of the car you buy, and
    I'd say that a full service history is mandatory.
    
    Laurie.

    Hi Laurie,
    
    Thanks for the info looks like things might start getting expensive,
    oh well you pays your money you takes your choice.
    
    Is there anyway to get hold of the infamous Mr Sloper now that he 
    has left, he may have a mine of info/things to look out for,
    
    Till later,
    
    Mark.

    Maybe a mail to Chris PLAYER::BROWN would reach him. Last I heard he
    was ill, but still in Brussels.
    
    Laurie.

    Mark
    
    I'm still driving my 16v (you wanna buy it??) - it runs fine, is
    reliable, is great fun etc. etc. etc.
    
    My advice, WHATEVER you do .... look at a few and buy the best,
    cherished car that you can possibly find, with cast-iron Lancia (pref
    Integrale specialist) service history.
    
    People do the most ridiculous things to these cars (I saw a few at the
    Goodwood Circuit day in March) and consequently, they deteriorate
    proportional to the hammering that they receive.
    
    It is quite possible to have a lot of fun with these cars, whilst
    looking after it sensibly (I do it every day !!). This does not
    include: TRYING to make it wheelspin (x4), racing starts, flying off
    hump-back bridges   etc. etc.
    
    Personally, I don't the EVO's are worth the money, you are supposed to
    get about 5bhp more, but Fast Lane's last test car was slower than
    their 1990 16v test car !  The suspension and brakes are more
    sophisticated on the EVO's and later ones come with Air Con .......
    
    I should think that the palms of your hands will still get sweaty tho
    ....
    
    The guy at Cloverleaf, the local (Basingstoke UK) Integrale specialist
    has a couple of low mile EVO's in (like 6k KM), one belonging to a
    Director of Reynard Racing ..... looking for 21k pounds ........
    Apparently he has sold 3 cars to Parisian customers, because he can
    supply them cheaper than French Lancia dealers ....
    
    If you're interested in mine, mail Mark Coleman@UCG
    
    Cheers - Mark
    

    The Integrale is ACE. But it's not cheap to run. 
    Things I'd look for if I were you...
    
    1. Make sure it's got NEW tyres on it - they're not cheap to replace.
       The front inside edges go v. quickly, especially with spirited
       driving (which all of these cars will have had!)
    2. If it's done 50k or so, make sure it's had a new clutch fitted, ask
       to see the bill. Since the wheels don't spin, the clutch takes a 
       hammering - and it's a costly job to replace it.
    3. Listen to the engine on tickover carefully - get the smoothest
       sounding one (16v engine only - can get a bit rattly)
    
    The EVO has more power, better steering, better brakes, better engine
    responses, bigger wheels, longer travel suspension, and it looks meaner.
    Given that, I'd be surprised if you'd be dissappointed with the 'normal'
    16v.
    
    Al.

    
    
     Well a year and a half has passed since my last post here, so dont
     call me a fast mover :-)
    
     Whilst looking at the FIAT BRAVO and BRAVA, see comments in another
     topic, I had a look around the dealers used car lot, and saw it, a 
     red Integrale.
    
     Remembering my previous interest in these beasts I coyly asked for
     a test drive just to see if all the claims about blistering 
     performance were true. After a drive of some 20 Km's in town and 
     on the motorway I can happily confirm that it is, mindblowing. 
     
     In fact I was so impressed that before I had managed to leave the
     dealer a 'reserve that car for me' cheque was made out and a For 
     sale sign went up in the TIPO. 
     Yesterday I phoned to ask the cost of insurance, and fell back to 
     earth with a bump. I carefully explained that I was trying to 
     insure a car, not a Mirage or Hawker Harrier, anyway the price
     didnt drop.
    
     Anyway's I'm still hooked and such little items like insurance
     will not stop me purchasing this beast,
    
     If anyone's intersted I'll post an update when I get the car 
     and let you know the facts but, for now if you havnt test driven
     one of these I suggest you give it a go, you'll not likely forget
     it,
    
     Mark.    

    Re: .102
    
    Mark,
    
    Sounds like a demo is in order here, when you have bought it. What
    about a quick spin down to the wine places in the Var [just down the
    road from the AGS test track] - we need a fill up! 
    
    Dave

>>     Yesterday I phoned to ask the cost of insurance, and fell back to 
>>     earth with a bump. I carefully explained that I was trying to 
>>     insure a car, not a Mirage or Hawker Harrier, anyway the price
>>     didnt drop.
    
Well, the moral of that story is definitely to shop around. I managed to get
cover for my Carrera 4 down by a third by seeking out specialist performance
car policy brokers.

I ended up with Peart Associates on 01539 730666 - They are of the now infamous
Top Gear 928 low insurance episode. It might be worth your while giving them a
bell to make a monster more affordable.

Cheers,
Jonathan

    Also try Privilege Line (Direct Line's performance car section)
    0181 760 8819. I think you get Digital discount as well.
    
    Royston

    
     Thanks for the insuranaces reassurances but as I live in France
     I can't use them :-(
    
     What I have done is shopped around and gotten a range of quotes 
     from the amazing 14,000F per year (1800 quid a year) to a more 
     reasonable 7000F a year (900 quid). All quotes are for 3rd party
     fire and theft and a 70% no claims bonus.
    
     
     Mark