Conference terri::cars_uk

Due to the apparant increase in the number of car fires
I am looking for a fire extiguisher for my Espace - any
updates on this subject? Last I gleaned from this 
note is that 2.5Kg BCF/Halon was the thing to have.

John. 

5kg plumbed-in Halon (BCF is a trade name for a type of Halon, I think).

It needs to be plumbed in, 'cos otherwise by the time you've realised there's a
fire, got out the car, rummaged around in the boot for the extinguisher, and
got back round to the engine bay, it will be too late.

Also, you can't open the bonnet to get at the fire, as the inrush of air will
cause an explosion.

So plumbed-in, with the control accessible from the driver's seat, is the only
worthwhile solution.

DIY kits cost about �100...

>5kg plumbed-in Halon (BCF is a trade name for a type of Halon, I think).


Other way round - BCF stands for Bromo-Chloro-Fluoro (ethane) of which 
there are various combinations of B, C and F - collectively Halons.

Peter

Thanks sounds like a plumbed in Halon is the thing.

Thinking about it a bit more.. my priorities are not to save the vehicle 
but only to gain enough time to get the kids unstrapped etc in the event of
a fire. I suppose this means that I would need a plumbed in system and a 
hand held one handy to cover all eventualities.

I will go shopping to see what there is.

Thanks, John.

    
    the main thing with the plumbed in is that you can put the plumbing to
    the areas where the fire is most likely to start - ie dash board
    electrics, and carbs/fuel pump. This means that you pull the release 
    (which is in easy reach of the driver and passenger) and can then 
    concentrate on getting passengers out of the car.
    
    This will deal with the most likely sources unless you are (in my opinion) 
    stupid enough to have a mobile fire hazard (a cigarette) in your car!

    Think carefully about squirting 5Kg of BCF into the inside of a car: by
    the time you've got all the kiddie's seat belts undone, they are
    probably dead from asphyxiation. Even with a door open, the discharge
    rate from a plumbed in system will displace all the air in the
    passenger compartment.

If you don't want to spend a fortune....and plumbed in does cost a fortune...

The AA shops do recommended fire extinguishers, both powder and halon.

The powder is better recommended for general fires, both inside the car and
in the engine.  

Powder smothers the fire, whereas Halon works best in a totally enclosed space,
opening the bonnet a bit and blasting in the halon doesn't quite fit the bill,
also you will not be able to use the halon inside the car, for the obvious 
reason that you will have suffocated along with the fire.

I have an injected engine car that doesn't seem to have a cut-off for broken
return pipe (the sort World In Action were concerned about) and after a chat
with the extinguisher person in the AA shop, I went for the Powder version.
It is now proudly mounted in my passenger well, all ready to use at the 
first hint of flames.....most likely on someone elses car...but then that's
life :-)

More info

Plumbed in doesn't cost a fortune... a little over �100 if you fit it yourself.
Hardly a fortune considering the potential benefits!

Powder isn't toxic, but you'll have to throw away the car after using it.  The
powder "cakes" onto the burning (ie hot) material forming a non-flammable
barrier.  It's almost impossible to get off afterwards.

(Incidentally, this is why DEC don't use powder extinguishers... VAXes don't
work too well after being covered in the stuff!)

Halon won't kill you.  Most of it goes into the engine bay anyway, and you have
plenty of time to get yourself and occupants out of the car, particularly as
the doors are open, allowing the gas to disperse once it's done its job.

Where halon is dangerous is if you discharge it with all the doors and windows
shut then sit there for five minutes...

    > (Incidentally, this is why DEC don't use powder extinguishers... VAXes
    > don't work too well after being covered in the stuff!)
    
    In which case, why are powder extinguishers issued for use at home?
    
    Jeff.

    
    I'm perturbed at the assumption that all the people in the
    car will be able to get out in the event of a fire (likely
    to be caused by an accident). Its useful to have an 
    extinguisher that you can reach from the drivers seat, in
    case you're trapped. (If everybody can get clear of the car,
    then your best course of action may be to leave the car
    alone and start filling in a claim form!).
    
    An interesting system I've heard of is a small one that works
    by having a series of tubes running around the engine lid which
    will be ruptured by fire - when a tube ruptures it releases halon 
    to put the fire out. It requires no manual operation, and the
    gas is released locally to the source of the fire - wherever that
    may be...                               
    
    William.
    

>    An interesting system I've heard of is a small one that works
>    by having a series of tubes running around the engine lid which

Yes, that's the "plumbed-in" sort that Mark and Derek are muttering about....

What they haven't said is that the tubes do eventually perish etc...and so
have to be replaced.

My own personal feelings on the matter are, if the car is burning I want to
get out and leave it to it... if I can't get out...I want to have an 
extinguisher I can reach...

�    by having a series of tubes running around the engine lid which
�    will be ruptured by fire - when a tube ruptures it releases halon 
    
    As seen on Top Gear a few weeks ago.
    
    J.R.

�Yes, that's the "plumbed-in" sort that Mark and Derek are muttering about....
    
    No it's not.  (got my earlier reply in same time as yours)
    
    The 'competition' units involve nozzles aimed at 'likely' sources of
    fire.  When triggered, the gas is discharged in this direction.
    
�What they haven't said is that the tubes do eventually perish etc...and so
    
    Don't know if this is true, but it corresponds to the need to have
    any extinguisher checked/maintained periodically.
    
    J.R.

>    The 'competition' units involve nozzles aimed at 'likely' sources of
>    fire.  When triggered, the gas is discharged in this direction.
    
That's not the sort that was shown on Top Gear, that was the tubes looped 
around areas of risk, the principle being that the fire burnt through the
tube, thereby releasing the gas towards the fire, no nozzles involved at all.

Unless of course, the sort M & D are muttering about is the "nozzle" type...

>    Don't know if this is true, but it corresponds to the need to have
>    any extinguisher checked/maintained periodically.


Extinguishers have pressure dials, much easier to examine than yards and
yards of tubing looped all around the vehicle....    

As far as "Powder caking on burnt areas", in a car, these would be the bits 
that would have to be replaced anyway on your Fire insurance....

    
    Derek is definitely talking about the nozzle type. I've seen it! :^)
    
    Mark 
    
    PS Derek, were you at Lydden to spectate at the weekend?

�That's not the sort that was shown on Top Gear, that was the tubes looped 
�around areas of risk, the principle being that the fire burnt through the
�tube, thereby releasing the gas towards the fire, no nozzles involved at all.
    
    That's why I put in the reply 'as seen on Top Gear', relating to
    this style of extinguisher, which seems quite reasonable.
    
�Unless of course, the sort M & D are muttering about is the "nozzle" type...
    
    This is why I replied to your note.
    
    
    Anyway, I think it is now clear what the different options are.
    
    J.R.