Conference 7.286::home_work

    You can get it at Maki's on 2A.
    

	I notice that it takes several days, depedning on the amount of snow,
	for the snow to melt off. Is this normal?

    re: .2
    
    Do you mean that it takes several days with a cable or without a
    cable?  If you mean without a cable, that may or may not be "normal",
    but it is good.  It means that your ceiling is well insulated and
    that you are not using heat from your house to melt the snow.  And
    if that's the case, you probably don't need cables at all, since
    you're not likely to get "ice dams".
          
    Clay

    but if it takes several days with the cable, you have a defective
    cable.

      Plug it in!  :^)
    
    -Jim
    

    Does anyone know who I could hire to shovel off a house roof?  The home
    is in Westfield, MA.  Do landscapers do that sort of thing?  If so,
    what can you expect to pay? 
    
    Susanna Perkins
    237-3628
    CACHE::PERKINS  <--preferred method to answer
    
    Thanks!
    
    
    

	I don't know about landscapers, but around here (Nashua)
	several roofers advertise in the paper that they shovel
	off roofs (and are insured!).

    	I've been wanting to ask this. Just how much snow on the roof is
    dangerous? I have a TREMENDOUS amount of snow on my roof at the moment.
    It makes me nervous every time I look at it. However, no leaks, ice
    damns or other signs of trouble...yet. My problem is that I don't do
    heights. The last time I got up the nerve to get up on a ladder near
    the roof, I fell and solved that problem once and for all. So I'd need
    to hire somebody to shovel it off too...if it's necessary. How to
    judge? Better safe than sorry?

t really depends on the size of the roof. I have heard about $150 (32' X 24') 
for a small house and $250 (36' X 28' + garage) for a large one. I would guest
they would also consider the height of the roof (single or 2/3 stories high).
I though it was kind of expense butafter being on a ladder yesterday. I don't
think I would like to be on my roof if you pay me $1000.00.


Dave

    
    
    How steep is your roof pitch?????
    
    Geeeee, I just did mine (24x50) yesterday.  took about
    4' back from the edge to prevent any ice dams.  It was 
    about a foot deep so it was time...
    
    

Just had mine done (and ice damn removed).  Called roofing companies in the
area (Merrimack NH).

Cost, well $125.00 for removing all the snow off the back dormer and removing
all the ice. 

They used sledge hammers to break up the ice.  

Took four men about 20-30 minutes.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but isn't ice damming a sign that there is poor
ventilation of the roof, like missing/blocked vents?  Yes, I understand that sun
exposure, pitch, etc. play a part in how much snow melts off your roof, but I'm
still wondering about the ventilation aspects.  I presently own a gambral and
garrison and never had problems with ice damming or excessive snow build-up on
either structure.

	Re: .6

	Ice dams have already been extensively discussed in
	two other "ice dam" topics (one of which is 736).

    You might consider (maybe not now though) a roof rake.  This is no more
    than a blade and an extendable handle (mine works with inserts).  I
    believe they are still <$50 to be able to work a roof on the second
    story, at least 4' back.
    
    Bill
    

That is only if you can find a roof rake at this time of year. I have been
trying for the last 2 weeks in the Hudson, Ma and Nashua, NH area and I haven't
had any luck.

Dave    

    
    Get a length of PVC pipe.  Cut a piece of plywood in your
    favorite shape and attach to the end of the pipe.  Light
    and works as good as the store bought ones.  You can add
    diagonal braces as needed.

    Clearing the bottom four feet of the roof can lead to ice dams four
    feet up the roof which may be more of a leak problem than at the eave
    line.
    
    My theory has always been 'if it ain't broke; don't fix it'. In the
    case of snow load this doesn't always hold. If the snow is really deep
    I would try to remove at least some of it from the entire roof. Clean
    to the shingles is not necessary.
    
    Whatever you decide, be cautious, shingles are quite brittle in the
    cold. Beating on the ice with sledge hammers and axes may do a lot more
    damage than good.
    
    Peter Duke
    

    
    There is an ACE hardware in Groton, MA that seems to be able to
    get snow rakes when others can't. That's where I got mine this year.
    
    								- Mac

    Clearing the bottom four feet should NOT lead to an ice dam further up.
    Ice dams do not form at the edge of the snow line - they form at the
    point where water melted from the escaping heat from the house meets an
    area of cold roof - meaning at the edge of the roof where there is no
    heat underneath. That's why the real answer to an ice dam is improved
    insulation.

I SUPPOSE WE'LL SEE THIS ASKED IN THE ICE DAM NOTES, TOO.

NO WONDER IT TAKES DAYS TO FIND ANYTHING IN THIS CONFERENCE.  NOBODY 
BOTHERS TO LOOK FIRST.

The point I was trying to make was that the solution to ice damming may be
related to the general condition of your roof and attic ventilation.

***FLAME ON***

remedying the problem and not just the symptoms (damming) should be discussed!


If there is something the people can do to help prevent the damming in the first
place, then they may save themselves the expense/aggrivation of shoveling roofs
and damaging shingles. 

 ***FLAME OFF***

;-)

    
    
    call 911 Skip, for a quick response!....:)
    
    

Here in the 'great white north' its not really a question of IF you
should have the roof shovelled off but WHEN.  I tried myself last year...
a couple of feet deep over most parts with drifts up to 3 feet.  Working
from the peak down I happened to find a line of ice (covered by snow of
course) which extended from the second story wall to the roofs edge.  One 
step for mankind.........

Actually stopped just short of the eaves trough... heart beating like a
trip-hammer,  visions of casts dancing merrily in my head!

This year the snow build up isn't too bad.... course winter isn't over
just yet.  In any case,  I wouldn't advise using a sledge hammer to get
down to the shingles... it's not required and will most likely result in
'cracking' the seals between the shingles.

RP in the North

    RE: .17
    
    Even though my old house's roof is not built as good as todays
    construction, I wouldn't think that the snow load would be a problem.
    Roofs with 2X6's on 16 inch centers should be able to handle..maybe
    20  lbs/sq ft easy. For a 36 X24 addition, thats a load ability
    of over 6 tons of snow.
    
    Marc H.

re: .13

Actually, they can form at the edge of the snow line.  The insulating
effect of the snow comes into play.  If the attic has some insulation,
then the limited heat will collect nearer the peak and be trapped by the
snow, causing melting between the snow layer and the roof.  When the
water flows down and reaches the open air, it can freeze again, because
that part of the roof is colder (and there isn't enough heat in the
attic to keep the entire roof above the freezing point).  

This was pointed out in an article given to us by a colleague, and
substantiated by our own experience.  

   Gary

<<Here in the 'great white north' its not really a question of IF you
<<should have the roof shovelled off but WHEN. 

I'm glad to see someone else still does this also. I was beginning to feel like
was the only person left still performing the old snow country ritual of
shoveling the roof. I have always shoveled when the snow gets a foot or so deep
on the roof and stays there for a week or so. Takes but an hour to do and it's
a great view from up there :') But RP in the north is right...it's not IF you
should,  it's WHEN.

    One can also fall off an icy roof very easily.  Me, I think heating
    cables are a lot safer.  So now I just have to install them...next
    summer!
    My uncle fell off his roof last winter, shoveling it off.  He landed
    on a porch railing and nearly killed himself, but thankfully has
    recovered.  (He's 85, by the way.  What a guy!)

      I have a pair of ice cleats that I normaly use for ice fishing.
    They may not be to healthy for the shingles but as long as I don't 
    stomp there ok. Beats falling!!!!.
    
     T.

    
    Heres an old trick: TEK sheetmetal screws in an old pair of boots
    soles. These are the sheetmetal screws with a 1/4" hex drive head
    on them. Use the shortest screws you can find....1/4" long. Sounds
    wierd but it works fine and does no harm to the roof if your careful.
    
    Later
    
    Paul                                                     
    

    
    OH Yeah, I should mention the heads are what give you the traction and
    not the points :')
    
    

Well'  for those of you looking for roof rakes, Home Depot in Tewksbury had 
50 or so when I stopped in there on Friday evening to pick up some air line 
hardware.  They were right in front of the main entrance.

I spent most of Saturday morning shoveling off three neighbor's roofs.  
What started out as a joke on the mailman wound up being a beer-swilling 
neighborhood party. (I had the 36 foot ladder, the hatchet, axe, 3 pound 
hammer and 9 pound sledge.  They had the beach umbrella and the beer).  The 
fire chief declined to have his roof shoveled.

I hafta swing by Home Depot (next exit south of here) and pick up a new 
hatchet handle.  It was pretty neat how it flipped off on the back-swing 
and tumbled into the snow bank.

BTW, We damaged NO SHINGLES in our attacks, although one of the guys had 
previously put an axe THROUGH his father's roof the day before.

Regarding whether shoveling off roofs is necessary,  when I was a kid in Albany
NY area we had an extremely heavy wet snow one day.  I looked out the window
and it appeared one of the houses up the road no longer had a roof.  Actually
what happened was the formerly peaked roof kicked out flat.  Found out later
that two other houses had the same thing happen.   Builder caught hell for
that (turned out some of the houses they didn't use enough nails to attach
the rafters to the walls or something)

I have a different problem.  I have a steep roof and if we get a warm day
after lots of snow (like just now) the whole mass of snow will slide off in a
giant avalance all at once, ruining landscaping bushes and scaring the ^%#&%$
out of my cat (and me the first time it happened)  Gotta get me one of those
snow rakes. 

-Mike

Yup - I once had an A-frame house and couldn't have any plantings alongside
the house as they'd get creamed every winter.

			Steve

	   And then there are those `three decker' avalanches!  When all 
	that snow falls some 30+ feet, it builds up pretty good momentum. 
	"WHUMP!!!"  But the snow isn't half as dangerous as those monster 
	icicles hanging off the gutters.  It's a wonder more people don't
	get beaned in the head.
					Tim