Conference 7.286::home_work

    I don't think a kitchen exhaust fan is a "necessity" or dependent
    of what type of stove you have.  I would think in your situation
    that either a ductless fan (blows air out the front) or moving the
    stove to an outside wall (if you really want to vent outside) would
    be your best bets.  Demolishing walls and/or cabinets for an exhaust
    fan hardly seems worth it.  Also remember that you'll have to get
    electricity to it too.  You'll be the final judge of the "benefit
    vs. hassle" equation.

    Can you put a "ductless fan" in a bathroom also?  How would the
    purpose of removing the water vapor then be accomplished?

    re: .1
    
      i always got the impression that those ductless fans were more
    noisemakers than anything else.  are they really effective in filtering
    out smoke/steam/cooking smells?  do they have some sort of disposable
    filter?
    
    /mark

    Most of these ventless exhaust fan units have a charcoal fiter
    somewhere in its flow channel(kind of like a smokeless ash tray).
    They do a fair to poor job of filtering. If you really want to exhaust
    cooking odors, smoke, steam, etc.,. and plan to use it alot, I'd
    recommend figuring out how to install an over the stove unit that
    exhausts to the outside. However, an exhaust fan is more of a luxury
    than something that is required.

    RE: .2
    
    The primary function of an exhaust fan in a bathroom is to relieve
    a moisture problem.  Re-cycling the air into the same area won't
    help.  These have to be vented outside.
    
    RE: .3
    
    The primary function of a exhaust fan over a stove is to eliminate
    smoke, cooking smells and small amounts of steam.  The ductless
    range hoods pass the air through a filter (washable) and out the
    front.  While I have not put mine through severe usage (I don't
    burn food because I don't cook.) I do believe these work.
    
    Anybody else out there with more experience with a ductless range
    hood?
    
    RE: .0
    
    I don't know if Jenn-Air comes in gas but their stoves vent down,
    through the floor.  If the basement is unfinished, this may be
    considerably easier.  However, the cost of that convenience may
    be as high as $1000!  Those stoves are expensive, but from what
    I've seen they sure do make the food taste great!  They are also
    a selling feature when that time comes.  But for a $1000, I guess
    that's to be expected.
    
    Phil

    I've had both ductless and ducted kitchen fans.  The ducted fan
    is somewhat better, but a good quality ductless fan when kept
    maintained can be almost as effective.
    
    The airflow is probably more important than the ducting technique.
    Prices of these things tend to be proportional to the CFM of the
    blower.  At the low end you get a 85 CFM blower which won't blow
    a candle out.
     
    Also depends on what you cook.  If you do a lot of frying of aromatic
    things like onions and garlic you may need better exhausting systems.

    
    
    Bottled gas stoves used for cooking only do not need to be vented
    unless as stated elsewhere you do a lot of frying or cook a lot
    of aromatic foods like cabage or onions. 
    
    The only time you should smell gas is if there is a problem such as 
    a pilot light out or a burner flame gone out. Depending on your service
    person and the type tank you have there might be a little smell when 
    gas is delivered. That you shouldn't have to worry about since it
    is outside anyway.
    
    A ductless hood is as effective as you allow it to be. A good one
    that is well cared for (filters cleaned and charcoal replaced
    regularly) will do a job that should be acceptable to all but the
    most sensitive. The cost of an installed hood may run several 
    hundred dollars but you get what you pay for.  

    Many replies have said that a " good " ductless stove hood can do
    the job of filtering smoke, but none mentioned any brand names
    including model number & the cost. I am planning to buy a "good"
    ductless stove exhaust fan, and will appreciate any input.
    Thanks.

    Most of the ductless vents I've seen in newer homes (G.E.) and the ones
    built into over-the-stove microwaves do NOT contain a charcoal
    filters when you get them.  The standard filter is a wire screen/mesh
    contraption that catches grease.  The idea is to condense oil particles
    onto the wire.  They don't do a very good job on smoke or odors.
    
    The charcoal filter unit is usually an option which must be purchased
    separately.  The SHARP over-the-stove microwave units are like this.
    With the charcoal filter, the ductless vent seems to do a pretty
    good job.
    
    -al

    	I just got done doing over my whole kitchen. In the process
    I purchased a hood for the stove. I noticed that every catalog I
    looked at had 2 order numbers. One for ducted to the outside and
    one for no duct with a charcol filter. I paid $150.00 for a G.E.
    model ducted to the outside.
    
    	-Steve-
    

I have a bottled gas stove, and a ductless fan in the exact set up that is 
described in .0.  The filtration system is the plain wire mesh.  When my last 
pie spilled over and smoked up in the oven, I turned on my fan once more to 
prove it is truly useless.  As expected I could see the smoke being pulled up 
and blown out into the room.  I assume a more expensive hood would do a better 
job...  

BUT, the main reason I don't use the fan is that I'm 6'4" tall, and the
exhaust blows right into my eyes while I'm cooking.  This is the type of 
problem that may not be solved no matter how much money you throw at the 
ductless variety.  When my kitchen gets remodeled, I plan to use a fan ducted 
to the outside (c'mon DEC stock!).  

By the way, I've seen electric jennaire's that have an elaborate internal 
filtering system (at the cost of a smaller oven, and $$).  The new gas 
jennaire's appear to be ducted to the back side.  This is most appealing to 
me, since a duct running under my counter would not interfere with any 
drawers or other storage.  Can anyone confirm this?

						     
							- JP

    re: .-1 Jennaire question
    
    I can only describe the electric Jennaire that I installed a couple
    of years ago.  The down draft duct goes to the floor where it
    connects to a separate squirrel cage blower that is mounted to the
    floor (not the oven).  The blower can be directed left, right, back,
    or down, through the floor.

    By the way, the newer (last 2-3 year) electric models have an oven that is a
    bit larger than the older ones.
    
    __Rich

    I installed a ductless hood for my mother last year, I think it
    was a "Braun". Anyway, the filter is a wire mesh sort of thing on
    one side, and something like fiberglass on the other side. It's
    meant to trap grease. It never claimed that it would trap anything
    else. Why would you *want* to eliminate cooking aromas?
    Seems to do what it's supposed to - no more grease buildup on surfaces.
    -Tom R.

I have a (totally useless) ductless hood which we don't even bother turning on
anymore. It has the expanded aluminum mesh to trap grease as well as a charcoal
filter (how do you recharge those things, anyway?). As a demonstration of the
flow pattern, with a pot of boiling water on the back burner, and with the light
and fan on, you can still see most of the steam escaping around the hood rather
than going through the filter. 

What I would like to do is replace it with a ducted fan and exhaust it through
the cabinet over the stove and into the attic. 

Is it possible to just exhaust the air into the attic and let it disperse from
there via the vents or must I run the duct to an outside wall? Will there be a
potential problem of grease condensing and building up inside the ducts? 

Dave

     re -1. brings up a good point. I am curious about ducting the stoves
    that vent down and then back. I would think that putting an angle
    or having a long run would cause grease to accumulate in the duct
    causing a fire/insect/health/rodent/(insert your worst fear)/ hazzard.
    
    

    RE: How do you recharge charcoal filters?
    
    You don't.  You throw 'em away and buy a new one.
    
    -al

    
    
    	Re .14
    
    
    	Using a boiling kettle as a test of a hood is a bad one. I have
    the most powerfull G.E. hood and It still can't keep up. My hood
    is ducted to the outside right in back of the hood. The only duct
    I have seen thats really powerfull is on a Jenair (SP?) where they
    need incrediable suction due to there design and purpose.
    
    	-Steve-
    

    re: various
    
    Some say that you can "recharge" activated carbon ("charcoal") by
    heating it at a high temeprature in your oven.  An argument against
    this is that the process used to _create_ activated carbon uses extremely
    high temperatures (well over 1000�, I believe).  My stove doesn't
    get that hot.
    
    re: grease in ducts
    
    	The instructions for my Jenn-Air have this to say about the wire
    mesh grease filter:
    
    		DO NOT OPERATE SYSTEM WITHOUT FILTER.
    
    	I guess the filter catches the grease effectvely.

    RE: .18
    
    > Some say that you can "recharge" activated carbon ("charcoal") by
    > heating it at a high temeprature in your oven.
    
    Are you sure you are not getting this mixed up with Silica Gel (those
    little packets of dehumidifying crystals)?
    
    One would think that recharging activated charcoal would mean that
    you would have to release all those nasty little odors it has been
    absorbing over the last few months.  Can you imagine getting a room
    full of 6 months worth of cooking odors in a 1 hour period because
    of a recharge?!
    
    -al

RE: The question of ductless fans vs ducted fans.

An article in Practical Homeowner this past spring indicated that with
newer, tighter houses, the need for external venting was very important.
They pointed out that the fumes from broiling meats and frying many
types of foods were not healthy to breath. A ductless fan may catch
some small part of the grease, but will do little or nothing for the
fumes and smoke.

Our builder installed a GE ductless fan when he built our house. I found
that it did nothing for the smoke and fumes. Some of the grease was caught
in the filter, but a fair amount passed through the fan and had to be
cleaned off of the exterior of the fan where the air returns to the room. 

Since the house is very tight I felt that I needed to vent the kitchen
outside and since I wanted a microwave oven over the stove, I bought one
with a ducted fan. I ran the duct up through the cupboard over the stove
and then horizontally above the cupboards to the exterior wall. Since
installing it I have noticed a significant decrease in smoke and fumes from
cooking and I have not had as much grease on the cupboards. 

The only complaint I have is the noise. Next time I will invest in the
type of fan where the motor is on the exterior wall.

VCS

    DO NOT vent a ducted kitchen hood into an attic area. It will become
    a fire hazard. Think about it, fire on the stove, grease in hood
    and duct burns, flames travel through duct into attic, and accumulated
    grease around end of duct starts the attic on fire.
    
    With any type of kitchen hood, service the grease filters regularly!
    Most can be quickly removed and are small enough to fit in the
    dishwasher. I would avoid long, horizontal runs of duct that will
    allow grease sit and build up.
    
    Nick

    Grossman has range hood on sale. They have the brand Nautalus (sp?).
    Is it any good ?
    
    The hood is normally mounted under the cabinate. There is NO cabinate
    above my gas stove. Will it be safe to mount the hood onto the wall
    ( if I can locate the studs ) ?
    

I have a range hood with two squirrel cage fans in it, and the motors need to 
be replaced.  They are small motors made by Emerson Electric, and they look 
like they should be easy to get.  But I can't get them from Emerson, and all of
the suppliers seem to be wholesale only.  All I really need is two 1/25 hp
motors CW and CCW with 5/16" shafts that run 1550 rpm, and it seems to me that
many  different people ought to make something that can be made to work.  Does
anybody know of source for small fan motors like this?

What I have done so far:

	Called the motor manufacturer -- they gave me distributor number.
	Called the distrubutor -- they won't sell to me, and even if they
		would, they would order from the manufacturer.  They say
		talk to a dealer of the range hood.
	After a lot of work, found out brand of range hood (this is a built
	    unit in a Haas cabinet with no visible brand name or model) looks
	    like it is a Kitchenaire hood.
        Kitchenaire dealer gave me hood manufacturer's phone number.  So far,
	    they don't answer the phone.

But this should not be so hard.  There must be a book somewhere with a list
of motors that I can choose from.  If I have to drill a couple of extra
holes to make it fit, I have no problem with that.  Any ideas?

Thanks

Ed Burdick
Hudson, Mass

    ED
    I don,t know what shift you are on but the facilities group can help
    you!! daytimes 08:00-16:00 dial 4620 ask for stanley & explain your     
    problem to him. or from 16:00-24:00 ask security to beep HANK and I,ll    
    try to help   
    

    
    Call WD Grainger. There's one in Worcester.
    
    CdH
    

    
    
    Most of the Refrigeration supply houses carry an assortment of small
    motors- these are the industrial refigeration supply houses, not your
    local applinace dealer. I'll also second the W. Grainger
    recommendation, but they frequently won't sell to the general public.
    
    
    

        While industrial suppliers such as Grainger might not sell to
        individuals, most of them will sell to someone from Digital, or
        just about any other company, as long as their money is green. It
        might help if you look more like a contractor than someone from
        sales or marketing when you walk into the place. 

	Steve Smith
	DTN 225-6200 (call if you like)
	SNAX::SMITH  (preferred)

	SKILL model 77 Portable Saw. This is an industrial model saw that
	has an all metal frame and motor housing. 115V, 12 AMP operation.
	Saw is in excellent condition. Comes with several extra 7 1/4 inch
	saw blades and metal carry case. Can be seen in Leominster or HLO
	in Hudson.
	
	I'm told this is about a $170 saw new.

	Asking $80 or best offer.

                                

A bit of overkill for a kitchen fan, wouldn't you say?

			Steve

Does anyone know where in the Marlboro-Worcester area to get a plain, white,
ducted range hood? The two big warehouses on rte. 9 are great if you want
almond color or $tainle$$ $teel.

     Well, I don't know the area you're asking about too well, but
    there must be a Sears in the area. I bought a new range hood from
    Sears in Burlington recently. It came in white, was ducted or
    ductless, has variable speed and a light which dims to use as 
    a night light.
     A very nice unit.
    
    Hope this helps,
     Bob

    I've seen exactly what you want in the Home Depot on Route 9 in
    Shrewsbury.
    
    Gita

    Hudson Appliance, Main St., Hudson MA. should have simple range hoods.
    Fancy ones too.

    How about Better Electric on Grafton Street in Worcester?
    
    -Brent

    Percy's near the Greendale Mall in Worc.
    
    Mark

Nevermind.
I wanted ducted only, so I was blind to all the ducted/ductless convertible
hoods. I got one of those.