Conference 7.286::home_work

PRoblem with a central humidifier is that its only useful when
your heat runs - so, keeping the house moist and saving energy
become opposing goals.  The big ones (I had a 10 Gal PResto) are
useful - not much more than a 10gal tub of water though - but
you only have to refill them every 4-5 days - but you have to
use a lot of 'humidifier treatment' to keep stuff from growing
in the tank, and cleaning at the end of the year is a bitch
(even if you buy a new belt every year. 

Last year, I bought a TWO gallon ultrasonic for $49.95.  I have
to refill it every day, but its VERY CLEAN and VERY effective
for my upper floor.  (only problem is that my
high-mineral-content water puts the same copper stains in that
it puts in my sink, tub, etc) 

Another suggestion: 

A vat of water at the bottom of your central heating system
(under the fan - use a kitty-litter tray) 


PS: I found that the ultrasonic put water in the air about as
fast as the old presto - about 2 gal/day. 

    
    We get very dry in New England also.  I use a 1 gal. ultrasonic
    which puts about 2 1/2 gal into the air per day.  I really like
    it. It's small, silent, and clean.  Infact, I'm probably going to
    get another one this year to put in the recently finished family
    room downstairs.
    
    Ray

    I don't know what "big bucks" is to you, but I bought a central
    humidifier for about $180 at Sears and installed it myself.  It's
    not hard to do and spreads moisture through the whole house without
    having ugly consoles with fake plastic French Provincial cases sitting
    around upstairs.  (And which cost as much).
    
    Yes it only runs when the furnace runs, but since the humidity is
    lowest at low outside temperatures, the furnace tends to be running
    frequently then anyway.  
    
    Obviously this option is only available for forced-air systems.
    
    Jim
    

    I have a central system.  It is great because the only time you
    have to worry about it is to replace the wicks.  I am sure it
    makes a big difference, although I still run a vaporizer in the
    bedroom as well.  I would hate to think how dry it would be with-
    out it though.
    
    Cheers,
    jeff
    

    I second (third, fourth, fifth?) the ultrasonic unit.  They're real
    quiet, put out lots of water, and the idea of blasting water to bits
    just sorta appeals to me anyway.
    
    -joet 

    I always thought that dryness in the house was a symptom of a loose
    house, and not the real problem. While it's true that you don't
    want an airtight house, I've always attacked the problem with caulking,
    weatherstripping, and polyurethane foam. And the nice side effect
    of this approach is that not only is the air in the house not so
    dry, but the heat bill goes down, too! 
    

    Re: .6
    
    Dryness can also be caused by wood stoves, FHA, etc.  

    Dryness is a simple funtion of heating air.
    
    Everytime you raise the temp br about 18 degrees F, you halve the
    humidity.
    
    If it is 29 degrees outside at 50% humidity, it will be 12% humidity
    at 68 degrees inside.
    
    Info courtesy of Heat transfer scetion of the chemical engineering
    handbook.
    
    				Chris

Note on ultrasonics:  Harder to find, but WELL WORTH IT, are the
	TWO gallon models (see .1 or .2)	/j

    I too like the ultrasonic units but, it can be a pain if you don't
    keep a good routine with refilling them everyday. Why don't they
    make a ultrsonic that has a 10+ gal. capacity? Does anyone know
    anything about where to buy a high capacity unit?
    

    
    	My heating company service person recommended that I disconnect
    the central humidifier in my FHA system.  He said that the moisture
    fed into the system would speed up the corrosion of the heat exchanger.
    Just thought that I'd pass the info along.
    					
    							         					
    

    Re: .7 & .8
    
    I think we're saying the same things, just using a different approach
    to raise the humidity. My original premise was that there is a LOT
    of humidity released into the air inside a home as a result of normal
    use (more technical goodies from chemical engineering welcome!).
    Some of the sources of this humidity would be showers/baths, laundry,
    cooking, washing dishes, breathing, perspiration, and unsealed
    basement/foundation wall/floor humidity transfer from the ground.
    
    If there is a 'lot' of cold air coming in from outside, it will
    have to be heated, reducing its humidity content faster than it
    can be replenished through the above sources. If there is not a
    'lot' of outside air requiring additional heating entering a home,
    the humidity level will tend to rise to a comfortable level as a
    result of the above sources. In fact, some of the new, tight, super-
    insulated homes have the opposite problem of too much humidity,
    and they almost need a DE-humidifier at times during the winter.
    
    The reason that wood heat tends to make a home feel 'drier' is that
    the heat source is constant (always heating the air next to it,
    thereby reducing its humidity content), and it needs lots of air.
    In my own experience, I set up a wood stove in the basement. The
    first year of use it seemed to burn O.K., but we didn't seem to
    get full benefit from it. The next summer I caulked-and-fiberglassed
    all the cracks in the basement walls, window frames, bulkhead, and
    sill. When I tried to light the wood stove I noticed it was harder
    than I remembered from the last year. The fire started slow, and
    kind of smoldered most of the day without ever really catching on.
    There seemed to be more unburned chunks of charcoal than I remembered.
    I had cleaned the chimney well the previous summer, so I decided
    to add an external air feed to the stove. Sure enough. It lit fast,
    burned hot and clean, and we had to turn it down a little. The moral
    of the story: wood stoves will suck a lot of cold air into a house
    which has to be heated, lowering its humidity.
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but I had also thought that
    cold air (especially below 32 degrees) tended to have lower humidity
    than warm air in the same environment. Wouldn't the humidity (i.e.
    water) in the air tend to condense below the freezing point, and
    settle out so that it was not measurable as humidity? If that's
    true, then the importance of keeping cold air out of the house would
    be even greater!
    
    the 
    

My $.02 sides with the 'central' units that Sears, et. al. sell. They 
come equipped with a humidistat that monitors the humidity of the cold 
air return and turn the unit on or off. The notion of causing 
condensation in the plenum is somewhat of a surprise since my Dad has 
had one in the same furnace for over 20 years with no evidence of 
moisture damage ANYWHERE.

Re: Ultrasonics...

Not a bad idea, however, just like the noisy ones that spray water, they 
have a tendency to cause a whitish powder to collect since they don't 
use heat to vaporize (hence, distill) the minerals out of the water 
before putting it into the atmosphere.

Re: Relative humidity...

I find that I feel colder when the humidity is low that when at a higher 
level because of skin evaporation. That causes me to want it to be at a 
higher temperature than if the humidity were higher. To me, that 
translates to being more 'comfortable' at a lower temperature. I can't 
speak for others, but that's how I perceive relative humidity...not by 
the amount of water air at a given temperature can hold.

        
>    	My heating company service person recommended that I disconnect
>    the central humidifier in my FHA system.  He said that the moisture
>    fed into the system would speed up the corrosion of the heat exchanger.
>    Just thought that I'd pass the info along.

	The humidifier should be installed downstream of the heat
    exchanger.

        __Rich

    Let's see if I can dredge up the remnants of Engineering 331 and
    explain "humidity" and "relative humidity".  Not guaranteed to be
    correct, since it's been quite a while....
    
    "Humidity" is the amount of water vapor in the air IRRESPECTIVE
    of temperature.  12% humidity means that for a given volume of
    air (say 1 cubic foot), 12% of the cubic foot's contents is water
    vapor. 
    
    The ability of air to hold water vapor increases with temperature.
    The warmer the air, the more mositure it can hold.  That's why
    the tropics are steamy, for instance.  "Relative humidity" is the
    percentage of water vapor in the air relative to how much COULD
    be in the air at a given temperature.  
    
    The Dew Point is the temperature at which water vapor will begin
    to condense out of the air.  Since the ability of air to hold water
    vapor decreases as temperature decreases, as the air temperature goes
    down there will come a point where the air won't be able to hold
    the moisture that it has in it, and the moisture will begin to condense
    out (as dew, or frost, if it's cold enough.)
    
    So...in the wintertime, the outside air is (generally) cold.  That
    means it can't hold much moisture, and will have a low humidity
    level.  (Notice that it may have a high RELATIVE humidity, but
    still contain very little moisture.)  When that cold dry air gets into
    a warm house, its humidity level stays the same (low).  Its relative
    humidity drops, because the air warms up and its ability to hold moisture
    increases.  Because its ability to hold moisture increases, it will
    eagerly take up moisture from anyplace it can find it...the mucous
    membranes of your nose, for instance.  Adding a humidifier to the
    house raises both the humidity and relative humidity of the air
    in the house.  At some point the humidity may reach a level 
    where the cooler air near windows approaches the dew point...so
    you get condensation on the windows.
    
    Steve
    

    re .15
    
    Absolute humidity is expressed as the weight of water per unit of
    air volume (eg. kilograms/cubic-meter). This measurement is of interest
    to meterologists because it tells them how much latent heat energy
    is stored in the air, how much precipitation to expect under ceretain
    conditions, etc. 
    
    Relative humidity is the ratio of how much water vapor the air holds
    (absolute humidity) to how much it could hold (saturation point
    or maximum absolute humidity, which varies with temperature). Thus
    if the absolute humidity is 0.1 kg/cu-mtr, and the saturation point at
    the current temperature is 0.2kg/cu-mtr, then the relative humidity
    is
    
	    		0.1 kg/cu-mtr
	    		------------   =  50%
	    		0.2 kg/cu-mtr

    Relative humidity is also an expression of how willing the air is
    to take on additional moisture. As such it is of more interest to
    most laypeople because it tells us how effective our perspiration
    will be at cooling us in warm weather (or chilling us in cold weather),
    how close we are to the conditions that will cause precipitation,
    etc.

    The dampness of a tropical rain forest (as opposed to the dryness
    of a tropical desert at the same temperature) is best left as a
    discussion in the Meterology conference.
    

    
    One comment said the humidifier of an HFA system should be upstream
    of the burner.  I have no access to the central section of the plenum,
    only access to the portion that goes to the bedrooms, the bathroom,
    and the downstairs.  Will this be good enough, or should I try to
    cut a hole in the garage wall to mount the unit to the side of the
    plenum.
    
    						.dave.
    
    ps: Can someone draw me a diagram of the top of the furnace of an
    FHA system?  Mainly where would I mount the unit?

      
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                           hot air supply plenum
    -------------------------.               .----------------------------
                             |               |         |      |
                             |  *----------* |         |      |
                             |  |humidifier| |         |      |
                             |  *----------* |         |      |
                             |               |         |  *-* |
                            *-----------------*        |  | | | <---
                            |                 |        |  *-* | humidistat
                            |     furnace     |        |      |
                            |                 |        |      |
                            |                 |--------'      |
                            |                 |   cold air    |
                            |                 |    return     |
                            |                 |---------------'
                            |                 |

    RE: .11, .14, .17
    
    I too highly recommend that you do NOT install a whole house humidifier
    in your furnace plenum or anywhere near it. I lost my FHA heat
    exchanger due to a leaky humidifier. I researched my alternatives
    with many furnace/service people and everyone I talked to were in
    agreement that furnace-mounted humidifiers cause more problems
    then they cure. Even if the unit is mount in the duct work away
    from the furnace, most duct work is level and can act as a conduit
    for the water to run back to the furnace causing decreased furnace
    life due to corrosion. Some installations use a "trap" built into
    the duct to trap water and run it off to a drain. But unfortunately,
    most existing FHA systems (like Dave Marra's) has a large plenum
    on top of the furnace which acts as a distributor to the smaller
    ducts. Usually this is the only place one can install the humidifier
    and as mention is the worst place to do so. Think twice before going
    this route. 
    
    Another problem not mentioned is the breading of bacteria in
    humidifiers. This commonly happens with (furnace mounted) wick-type
    humidifiers or large stand alone models that don't readily get clean.
    Any humidifier (including ultrasonics) with amount of standing
    water can have this problem. Since ultrasonics are smaller and easily
    clean (frequency of cleaning is usually higher because your usually
    constantly refilling it because of lack of reasonable water volume)
    this problem is usually avoided. Via experience and a doctor's
    recommendation, the only way to humidify a room with someone who
    has such allergies is to use a vaporizer that sterilizes the water
    before its aerated. Unfortunately vaporizers only cover small rooms
    or areas and is not a whole house solution. 
                                                   /Glenn
    

    re .19
    
    	My wife is allergic to just about everything (except horse hair
    plaster, thank god) and had a real problem with mold growing in
    the humidifier.  We got a ultrasonic humidifier because the doctor
    said they were less prone to grow and breed stuff.  We also add
    a couple drops of bleach to each tank of water and wash it between
    fillings with a weak bleach solution.
                                            
    					 hope this helps
    						=Ralph=

    The arguments against central humidifiers (moisture in the heat
    exchanger shortens its life) would seem to argue against central
    air conditioning, as well.

    RE:.21 
    
    		Not necessarily. Air conditioning is a "closed loop"
    system. It does not introduce vast amounts of water into the air
    like humidifiers and they're not prone to leaking like furnace
    mounted humidifiers (usually due to malfunctioning valves due
    to lime or scale deposits). I agree though that is could still be
    a possible cause of concern due to condensation on the evaporative
    coil. Admittingly, I have no personal experience with furnace mounted
    air conditioners. 
    						/Glenn
    

    This conference is incredible.  Ask a simple question and in
    no time at all you get everything short of 8" by 10" color
    glossies with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back
    of each one...
    
    I do believe my mind has been made up.  I am currently calling
    around pricing ultrasonics.  I have found the two gallon variety
    at only one place and have a hard time justifying the $89.99 price
    tag.  Best yet is 1.5 gal for $45.99. 
    
    Another question. 'Ultrasonic' seems to be some sort of generic
    name.  That is, I have seen 'ultrasonics' by Sunbeam, Pollenex,
    and others. Do we have opinions out there (what a silly question)
    on the various brands of ultrasonics? 
    
    Sid

    Almost all of the ultrasonics available (the 1-2 quart range) are
    basically the same.  The bare minimum is usually a "volume" control
    knob (how much mist), and a humidistat.  They should all have a
    shut-off sensor when you run out of water.  Wait for a sale.  $45
    is a good price.  Anybody know if this is a Spag's type item?
    
    -al

Lechmere had a 2 gallon Sunbeam one on sale on Sunday for
$64.99.  They also had a 1 gallon model on sale for ~$50.  I'm
not sure when the sale ends (maybe this week).  I got the big
one and am rather pleased with it -- keeps my skin from turning
into lizzard hide as I sleep.

R.

Yes, all ultrasonics are about the same.  The extra $$ for the 2gal is 
a good investment as you'll refill it less often (really! - its the 
difference between 1.5nights = 1night and 2.0 nights =2nights - so you
fill it half as often).  Wait for a sale though - $64.99 for the 2gal
sounds reasonable (I paid $49.99 last year at Rich's in Marlboro -
a GREAT Place for small appliances in terms of selection/prices - 
check it out). - Anyway - I have left water in the ultrasonic for Days 
at a time (during warm spells) and never a hint of bacteria-  - maybe
because its in a sealed container??
/j

    Ultrasonic humidifiers are so similar, that I've wondered if they
    are all made by the same Japanese company.  Than again, I wonder
    the same about low end hifi cassette decks - they are all remarkably
    similar..
    
    __r
    
    Maybe it should read "Korean" not "Japanese" now.

re: .23

Spend an amount that you're comfortable with. Look for variable output 
and humidity control. See if you can also find one that 'demineralizes' 
the water before atomizing. That will reduce the white powder buildup.

    With the experience of replacing well over 100 forced hot air furnaces
    in my father's business I can state that almost every furnace that
    we replaced due to a burned out heat exchanger was caused by a
    humidifier mounted directly in the supply air plenum. Most of these
    could have been avoided had the owner cleaned the humidifier regularly.
    Mineral buildup would cause the water valve to leak and water would
    overflow the humidifier and drip onto the heat exchanger.
    
    I have never seen a problem caused by the type of humidifier that
    mounts under one of the main supply ducts downstream from the furnace.
    These units have pieces of screen cut into circles that rotate on
    a shaft and are partially submerged in water. If the water valve/float
    assembly should stick open on these units they are design to allow
    the water to exit out a drain hole well below the point that water
    would enter the duct sytem.
    
    I am getting ready to replace my furnace in a few weeks (due to
    a humidifier mounted above the furnace) and will install one of
    the units mounted below the supply air duct. Since I use the furnace
    blower to circulate air through the house when the wood stove is
    on I will still get the benefits of the central humidification.
    This is because humidifiers are wired to run in parallel with the
    furnace blower.
    
    I also wouldn't be concerned with mounting a humidifier under only
    one of the supply air ducts if your house has more then one. All
    the air will eventually pass over the humidifier and things will
    be just fine.
    
    As far as cost of a central humidifier I've seen the type of unit
    I described for about $100 in the W.W. Grainger catalog. Installation
    is very easy.

    
    Nick Warchol    

    Well, I bought a humidifier yesterday:  1.5 gallon Pollenex
    with variable output and humidistat.  Got it at Service
    Merchandise for $44.50.  
    
    It sounds like going central is a good way to go so long as
    you don't plan on moving for a few years and you install it
    correctly.  I suspect that that is what I'll do with the next
    house (maybe next summer, depending on the state of the housing
    market, interest rates, etc.).
    
    In the meantime, though, the ultrasonic is definitely the way
    to go.  Thanks to all for the info.
    
    
    Sid

    My home heating system is forced hot water by oil.  My
    skin is beginning to dry out already. (yes I know, its my age)
    
    My question is would using a humidifer be a help?         
    
    Bradlees had cool or warm mist humidifiers on sale this week.
    Which one would help with dry skin?
    
    thanks
    marie           
    

    A humidifier would not only help with dry skin, it will also help the
    sinuses and keep your furnature from drying out.  I have forced Hot Air
    which is even worse for drying out the air.  I have an in furnace
    humidifier which I keep set for about 50% R.H. (I want to be sure my
    grand piano doesn't dry out).  In an old house I was renting in NJ, I
    had a standalone humidifier that I had turned up rather high.  One day
    during the winter, it got unexpectedly warm and I came home to find a
    cloud in my living room! 
    
    Either the warm or cold mist should work equally well. More of a
    personal preference, I would think, but don't know for sure. 
                            
    -Bob

Somewhere in this file (or was that ZEPPO:CONSUMER) there was
recently a discussion of humidifiers..... (just a pointer -- not
a flame.)

Briefly summarizing:  There are vaporizers (hot and cold) and
humidifiers.  What you are probably looking for is a
humidifier.  Two types are common:  

*  The first is a big tub of water with a rotating drum.  The
bottom of the drum dips into the water, getting a plastic mesh
wet.  A fan blows through the mesh.
*  The other common variety uses a piezoelectric part
which vibrates ultrasonically to blast the water into tiny bits.

Both have problems.  The tub method concentrates the scum in
your water, so that by spring you have one gooey mess to scrub
out.  On the larger models this task is difficult because you
must reach awkwardly into the machine.  The ultrasonic ones blast
some of the scum in the water into the air.  Since the water
evaporates, you are left with chalk dust (It's not really a
problem 'cause I gotta dust anyway; the dust is now gray instead
of black.)  The ultrasonic ones deliver about the same amount of
moisture each hour, but must be refilled more often.  However,
filling the ultrasonic ones is easier since you don't have to
use (and therefore find) a bucket.

Should you opt for the ultrasonic one (subtle hint -- I like
mine), get one with a 2 gallon tank; they go 24-36 hours between
refills.

Also, if you don't enjoy setting off your smoke detectors, begin
by erring on the side of too little humidity.  I left mine on
full blast for the first couple of days after I bought it.  One
night the weather changed, the humidity shot up to 100%, I got
fog, and was rudely awakened by the Honneywell ceiling creature.

R.

> Should you opt for the ultrasonic one (subtle hint -- I like
> mine), get one with a 2 gallon tank; they go 24-36 hours between
> refills.

I have the same kind of heat and last year bought an ultrasonic one
at lechmere (sorry don't remember the name) that has the largest
tanks I've seen and I've been very happy with it.  The two tanks are 
2 1/2 (?) gallons each and have pressure activated valves in them 
so to refill it you reach in and grab the tanks and lift them up and 
carry them to the sink to fill them.

--ed/

I would shop around though, when I shopped - the prior mentioned 5 gal 
one was >>>2.5*the cost of a 2gal one ($49.95) 


PS  - to those with the older type (and scum in the water)  putinng 
about 5oz of humidifier treatment (much more than the bottle 
recommends) does a very good job of keeping the water scum free.
However, its still a b**ch to clean in the spring.

    Apparently the main difference between the "warm" mist and "cool"
    mist vaporizers is that the warm mist vaporizer precipitates some
    of the particulates [read as lime or calcium or whatever the white
    mineral component is that seems to form everywhere] out of the water
    prior to it resurfacing your favorite furniture. We are currently
    in the market for one and are leaning heavily toward the warm mist.
    
    Charlie
    
    p.s. I think one minor drawback to the warm mist vaporizor is that
         in order to warm up the water the unit draws 300 amps at 240V.

    I think that you may have slightly misinterpreted the the power
    consumption of the warm mist vaporizer 300 amps at 240 volts yields
    72,000 watts or 72KW. At .08 cents per KW at 24 hours a day would
    cost you $138.24 dollars a day to operate.
    
     At any rate most (el-cheapo) warm mist vaporizers operate from
    standard household voltage at 120V. at probably a maximium of 6-10
    amps...
    
    						Dave
    

    I was of course, kidding ;).
    
    Charlie

    Here in semi arid eastern slopes of the Rockies, humidifiers really
    helps with the teak furniture keeping their luster. We have a
    humidifier working with the furnace as well as cool (ultrasonic)
    mist humidifiers that works year round. Besides the health benefits,
    static shocks is almost null with moisture in the air.
    
    The white powdery dust on the tv screen seems to be a slight problem.
    (Imagine that we drink that stuff). Any idea how to get rid of the
    stuff from the water before I put it in to the humidifier tank?
    
    /cal hoe

According to Consumer Reports - some manufacturers to make filters - 
that run a bit slow, so they said.   Of course, you can always use
distilled water :-).

Seriously - we have the problem too, and when your water has a high 
mineral content - it is noticable (white dust everywhere).  I haven't 
found a good solution yet, either.

I've got enough chalk (CaCO3) in my water, that should I be able
to separate it from the water, I'd be able to sell it as a
dietary supplement.		;v)            <snicker>

Seriously, some ultrasonics come with a place to insert a filter
do-dad.  Such a widget isn't cheep ($5-10 for a couple of weeks)
and the packaging advises that using distilled/deionized water
may be cheaper.

Maybe it's possible to buy a distillation tower.  The chem lab in
high school had one.  Anyone else have any ideas?

R.

The more expensive (around $100) 5 gallon model ALSO comes with a special 
filter that lasts for about a season and can be "rejuvenated" rather than
being replaced.  This eliminates the white dust.  I fill about once a week.

You gets what you pay for.

--ed

                Could you give us some details like manufacturer and
        model number on the 5 gal humidifier you mentioned in .-1 ???
        Also, where did you get it?
                
                /s/     Bob

Well, the good news is it is a model called "Sonic Mist" is made by Douglas
(yeah, I never heard of them either) and I got it at Lechmere in framingham
last year and they have them now (or at least a day or two ago).  

The bad news is they were priced at $200!  I bought mine on sale and am sure
I didn't spend that much, but I bet I spent more than the $100 I mentioned
earlier.  Sorry bout that.  

In any case, it is great if you want to have one humidifier for the whole house
rather than one in each room or two and don't want to fill it every day.  

--ed/

I just saw something new - there is a 2 gal. humidifier available (for 
about $60) which has a 'built-in' filter.  The filter is a drop in 
unit that sits between the reservoir and the ultrasonic element.  You 
are advised not to run the unit for 15min after filling it (presumably 
to allow water to pass thru the filter).  Thereafter, I assume the 
rate of evaporation from the ultrasonic element >= the speed of 
filtration.  Filters are $5 and are supposed to last several fillings.

Unfortunately (by design?) the unit has a slightly odd shape, so that 
you can use the filter only with their humidifier.  Not wishing to 
buy a new one (I bought a 2 gal. sunbeam (generic) last year) I am 
wondering - has anyone seen this filter for the generic design?
thanx/j

(PS: I saw the new humidifier in the Econo-Drug Mart in Hudson, don't 
remember the name, but the tank had a kind of triangular design)

    I BOUGHT ONE OF THE 5 GALLON ULTRASONIC HUMIDIFIERS AT LECHMERE
    LAST YEAR FOR $230. IT IS A "DOUGLAS SONIC MIST".  IT HAS WHAT THEY
    CALL A DEMINERALIZATION FILTER WHICH KEEPS DOWN THE WHITE HAZE. HOWEVER,
    I HAD A WELL AND I STILL GOT SOME PRECIPITATION. THERE ARE LOTS OF
    ADJUSTMENTS i.e. HUMIDITY,MIST CONTROL,AIR FLOW AND WE FOUND IT
    VERY EFFECTIVE FOR REDUCING THE DRYNESS FROM A FHA HEAT SYSTEM. I HAVE
    SINCE MOVED TO A NEW HOUSE AND NO LONGER USE IT SO GIVE ME A CALL
    IF YOUR INTERESTED

    REGARDS, FRANK    DTN 250-2115

    The cool air (ultrasonic) humidifiers are GREAT.  Less fuss and
    muss than the others, and they help your skin/nasal passages/furniture,
    etc.  They do NOT help your wallpaper if you leave them turned up
    to high (judge by the amount of condensation on the insides of your
    windows)!  Spags has them ranging from $36 to $55, with the differences
    being along two lines:  1) primarily size of the tank, 2) a couple
    of the cheaper ones have a mickey-mouse mechanism for linking the
    tank to the unit.  Look at the more expensive ones:  any with a
    spring type mechanism you see on it is the kind you want.  If you
    pay more that $55 you got ripped (I like somerville, but their
    humidifiers are WAY too expensive).
    -reed
    

    What's the difference between a small ultra-sonic humidifier and
    a larger (non-ultra-sonic?) humidifier?  That is, the ones that
    look like vaporizers vs. the ones that look like pieces of furniture?
    
    The people we bought our house from had a large (possibly 10 or
    15 gallon) piece of furniture type humidifier in the upstairs hallway.
    The house inspector remarked that was just the appropriate
    place for one.  
    
    Our decision:  Should we go with a large one for the hall, or a
    small ultra-sonic for the bedroom?                                              
    
    Any comments, suggestions, or recomendations?  
    
    Thanx,
    LZP
       
    
                
    

    
>    Our decision:  Should we go with a large one for the hall, or a
>    small ultra-sonic for the bedroom?                                              
    
 do you want to humidify your house or your bedroom?        
    
                
    

    I knew someone would ask that...now for the indirect answer.
    
    I don't want my skin to dry up and fall off (which it feels like
    it's going to do shortly).
    
    I don't want my furniture and wood floors to suffer from a dry house
    (although I'm not quite convinced that there's that much floor and/or
    furniture benefit in a humidifier).
    
    I suppose the crux of the issue is the following:
    I know *I* need a humidifier...does the house need one too?
    
    What are the benefits of humidifying a house as opposed to a bedroom?
    
    Thanx,
    LZP
    

    Please read note 533. Ther was some discussion on humidifiers there.
    We run two, one in the study to keep static down on our PC and one
    in the bedroom for our health. The ultrasonic units are quiet and
    seems to be compatable with the whole house unit that works through
    the furnace.
    
    The large ones that holds several gallons of water are great if
    you live in an apartment and don't want to invest in the whole house
    humidifiers.
    
    /cal hoe
     

I  formerly had a 10 gal furniture-like humidifier, and replaced it 
with a 2 gal ultrasonic.  I noticed that the 2 gal lasted about 24 
hours, and the 10 gal lasted about 120 hrs.  The corollary is left as 
an exercise to the reader.

    
    RE: 533.2
    >the tub method concentrates the scum and by Spring, you have one
    >gooey mess...
    
    If anyone who uses the large console type unit with tub and water-wheel
    is waiting till spring to clean it, you are not using it correctly.
    
    With each filling, the concentration builds up, and this 'scummy'
    environment is a great breeding ground for bacteria af all types.
    In addition to the water treatment chemical, the manufacturers also
    sell a bacteria killer to add to your reservoir.  Both of these
    are quite expensive.  The fan pushes the moist, bacteria-laden air
    out into the room for you to breathe.
    
    It's a pain in the neck, but you really should be cleaning these
    units more often than once at the end of the season.  A reasonable
    frequency is more like every 2nd or 3rd week.  
    
    Remove the wheel and reservoir and wash in a large sink.  Soak the
    mesh band in the hottest soapy water possible.  Sponge out the
    reservoir tank with hot soapy water (a couple teaspoons of bleach
    added may help to kill the bacteria) and rinse with very hot water.
    Fill the sink half-full with hot water with soap and a little bleach
    and sponge off the wheel while slowly rotating it thru the bath.
     
    Be sure to rinse everything well.  The mesh band is hard to rinse
    the soap out of. Hot water spray just wants to make more suds. 
    Cold water keeps the suds to a minimum. Save the hot till the final
    rinse.

    At the end of the season, you can clean the entire unit more
    thoroughly, including the fan blades, housing and in some models,
    the float which detects the water level in the tank.
    
    Don't, by any means, put the unit away in the Spring without cleaning
    it.  
    
    I'll bet I just convinced a lot of folks to switch to the ultrasonic
    type.
    
    JPM

The people who make the humidifer water treatment stuff for the big 
console humidifiers have brought out a new kind of water treatment for 
ultrasonic humidifiers - supposedly it keeps the humidifers from 
spreading the white dust that they're famous for - anyone have 
experience with this?

(also posted to CONSUMER)

    I went looking for (and found it) something like this a couple of
    months ago.  My experience is that it does reduce the white film
    that appears on nearby objects, and that all the precipitated minerals
    make you want to clean the humidfier more often.

    Does anyone know of an ultrasonic humidifier that attaches to your FHA
    system?   When Consumers was rating them only standalone models
    were on the market.

    Has anyone seen any good sales on ultrasonic humidifiers in the
    southern new hampshire area recently?  I am looking to buy two of
    the 1.5 or 2 gal jobbers.  Pointers would be appreciated.
    
    Bruce
    
    ps. Spags, of course, but too far... others?

    Try Brookstone at the Pheasant Lane Mall... I got one there a couple
    months ago, and it was on sale (don't know how long the sale runs,
    or if they do it regularly).  They have a couple different sizes
    and prices, and the one I got is about 1-1/2 gallons I'd say.  The
    good thing about Brookstones, even if their prices are a little
    higher than elsewhere, is that they give a lifetime guarantee on
    the things.   Mine was running full-tilt 12 hours a day for at least
    2 months without a problem.  it is now about to be retired for the
    summer.
    Jim
    

< Note 533.14 by BINKLY::WINSTON "Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA)" >
                              -< new uhmidifier >-
Hi Jeff,

Now that you've had that "new humidifier", i.e. the one with the "built-in"
filter, for about a year, how's it working?  Does it reduce or completely
remove the white powder?  Was it a farce?

Thx. rep

Used it all last winter - the filter REALLY WORKS - reduces about
98% of the dust which was a real pain in the butt the winter before -
if you're going to buy an ultrasonic - no question - buy one with a filter	
/j

I've had an ultrasonic humidifier for a year now. I can't find the instructions 
for it and I have this question. How do you clean out the mechanism. There is a
very annoying odor coming from the thing, kind of like mould/mildew. Is there a
solvent or cleaner I should use periodically?

Dave

    re: cleaning US humidifiers
    
    I used a storage technique similar to the ones in the "Great Lawnmower
    Storage" note on my humidifier when I was done with it for the year
    (i.e. turn it off and let it sit there) last season. 
    
    When I cranked it up the other day, very little happened. Just a tiny
    bit of mist.  When I looked closely, all of this crud had been left
    there from a season's use and the final evaporation over the summer.
    Thinking quickly, I dumped an undiluted cup of white vinegar into it,
    put it in the kitchen and turned it on.  Within five minutes, my house
    smelled like an Italian salad, but the thing was working fine. I rinsed
    it out, rubbed a Q-tip (tm) gently around the transducer area, filled
    it up with clean water, and all was well. 
    
    Inelegant, not UL-listed, but it worked.
    
    -joet

Re .-1 .-2

Was that cider vinegar or distilled vinegar  [;^)

But seriously, folks.  Thanks for the idea.  I tried it with distilled vinegar 
and lo and behold, it worked.  As you said, the house smelled like a salad for
a while, but afterwards the machine worked fine, and the disagreeable odor was
gone.

Dave

    I have recently purchased a Sears central humidifier for my gas-fired
    FHA furnace.  I note that this particular model does not protrude
    into the plenum, using a blower to bring air into the humidifier and
    blow the humid air back into the plenum, so I presume that this will
    be unlikely to damage the furnace.
    
    My question is about installation.  The manual tells me to cut holes
    in the sheet-metal duct over the air-conditioning coil and mount a 
    stiffener plate.  The problem? My furnace's duct isn't sheet metal, it's
    something called "Ultraduct" and appears to be fiberglas board.
    
    I'm concerned that I won't be able to mount the humidifier securely 
    to this stuff.  I can probably use those flat-metal quick-nuts (don't
    know what they are called) to make sure the stiffner doesn't fall off,
    but am not so sure it's rugged enough to stand the weight.
    
    Has anyone else encountered this situation?  What should I do?  Should
    I perhaps run some sort of strapping to a joist to support the unit?
    The unit, empty, seems to weigh about 10-20 pounds.
    
    					Steve

	You've answered  your  own question in the last paragraph.  Mount
	the unit on  the  ducting,  but  instead  of using the clip-nuts,
	arrange a couple of  pieces  of  aluminum  angle metal behind the
	stiffener and fasten thru the  duct  and angle.  This will spread
	the weight across the whole length  of the humidifer.  Then, from
	the ceiling rafters/joists, run some heavy wire  with turnbuckles
	down to the outboard (front) of the humidifier.  You need support
	at  the front, thereby eliminating the lever arm that  will  work
	against  the  ducting  when  the  unit's  full  of  water.    The
	turnbuckles will allow for adjustment.
	
	I  have  a  similar unit and I'm surprised that Sears didn't  say
	anything about the new  ductwork...they're  usually  pretty  good
	about such things in the installation manuals.
	
	Chris

    I have a question for you owners of Sears central humidifiers. 
    I notice that mine is quite noisy.  I've reduced the noise somewhat
    by placing pieces of styrofoam between the ductwork and the metal
    stiffener, but it's still a bit much.  Have you noticed the same
    thing?
    
    Mike

	I hear  a  slight  buzzing  now and again, but nothing I can call
	annoying.  My  furnace  is  old  (25  years) so I'm sure that the
	majority of the racket  is  from  the  blower, even though it's a
	direct drive type.  One  thing,  however, is I can hear the water
	refilling the reservoir after the whole shebang shuts down.
	
	I suspect that part of your  problem may be arising from the size
	of the plenum it's installed on.   Mine's  short,  so there isn't
	much to resonate.  Hanging the unit on  a  large  plenum  of thin
	sheetmetal would probably make things worse.  Try stiffening  the
	area  your  humidifier's  mounted on, add extra supports from the
	overhead joists,  etc.    ALso,  if  I  remember  correctly,  the
	installation manual shows  how to mount the humidifier 'remotely'
	connecting the unit to  the furnace plenum via dryer vent hose or
	whatever...that may be the ultimate answer to a noise problem.
	
	Chris

    Mine makes a noise that can be heard through-out the house at night.
    You're right though,  the duct-work is probably acting as a big
    resonator sending the noise through the house.  I remember the mounting
    procedures you refer to in the manual.  I'll give that a try.
    
    Mike

      I just bought a 2.1 gallon ultrasonic humidified for my bedroom.
    I placed it on top of a stereo speaker.
    After a couple nights usage, I noticed that there was a puddle of
    water on the night table which is 2 feet away from the speaker,
    and that the carpet below it was soaked.
    I looked in the user manual troubleshooting section, but there was
    no mention of this problem.
    
    Question:
    
      Is this caused by placement of the unit?  If so where can I
    place this unit so as to minimize this problem and still maximize          
    humidity ?
    As it is we may need to add a second unit just for this one room
    because it is a large room and because we have to leave the door
    open.  The heating thermostat is in the hallway and all the heating
    ducts are in the room.
                                                            
    Anybody else experience problems with their ultrasonic ?
    thanks, 
    Bev

    You've just got the "mist" setting turned up too high, so the mist
    doesn't have a chance to evaporate into the air before it falls
    to the floor.  (I assume yours has a "mist" setting, which controls
    the volume of mist the thing puts out, and a "humidity" setting,
    which controls when it shuts off.  If your unit doesn't have those
    contols, I don't have any other ideas.)
    

    Ultrasonic humidifiers take several hours to adjust the humidity
    to your desired level.  Like room air conditioners, they are best
    operated at moderate settings and run virtually full time.  You
    can't get satisfactory results by turning it on full blast when
    you arrive home in the afternoon and expecting a comfort level to
    be reached by suppertime.
    
    You might also try placing the unit higher above the floor.  Ours
    sits on a five-high chest of drawers, which puts the nozzle about
    5 1/2 tp 6 feet above the floor; this seems to work satisfactorily.
    
    Incidentally, although we have a whole-house water softener and
    also use demineralization cartridges, I'm still concerned about
    the long term health effects of "white dust."  I haven't completed
    my investigation yet.
    
    pbm
    

    
    We have a "dual port" Ultra-Sonic that runs on on HIGH night and
    day and have never had water accummulate like the base note describes. 
    We used to keep the thing in a corner ON THE FLOOR and the carpet
    never even got damp. If it's a new unit I'd recommend returning
    the thing and getting another (perhaps even another brand).
    
    The last I read on the so-called "White dust" was in a health magazine
    about a month back. They stated that contrary to popular belief
    the white dust is almost entirely made up of particles the vapor
    encounters in the air which become heavy and sink to the nearest
    surface. This makes sense to me since we have run bottled demineralized
    water thorugh ours in an attempt to lessen the problem and still
    had the same "fallout". If anything, it sounds like the removal
    of the air borne particles from the air is probably better for your
    health!
    
    
    							* MAC *
    
    

    We've been using an old ultrasonic that doesn't have any of the
    adjustments or controls. It does have a fill line and if you overfill
    it you tend to get something more than vapor out. Better to fill it
    twice a day.

    
    Thanks for all the suggestions.
    I will try lowering the "mist" level first.
    
    What is meant by a dual-ported unit (sounds like a disk drive) ?
    

    Bev

    
    Are there any cold drafts (and I don't mean beer 8*)) near where
    the puddle is forming???? This happened to us. My wife decied to
    move the unit when we brought in the Christmas tree and she set
    it up right next to the door, causing a puddle to from. We relocated
    it upstairs, and now no puddle is forming.
    
    Mike
    

    Hmmmm .6 just got me wondering... would putting a humidifier nearby
    help prolong the life of a Christmas tree???
           
    	Mark

    The humidifier is sitting close to the open doorway to the hallway.       
    Since the hallway is not heated, it could be causing a cold draft.
    I'll try to relocate it to the other side of the room and see
    what happens.  
    Lowering the MIST level seemed to help alittle.  Although the
    carpet still got dampened.

    bev

    Re: .7
    
    I put a humidifier next to our Christmas tree this year; I think
    it helps.  Certainly can't hurt.

    A couple more points on Ultrasonic humidifier placement.
    
    If you must place it atop a piece of wooden furniture, i.e. table,
    dresser, stereo speaker, try to keep a waterproof tray of some kind
    between it and the wood, because invariably you will get water dripping
    onto the surface below the unit when you are removing or replacing
    the reservoir for filling.  If left to sit, this water will spot and 
    damage the finish of the furniture.
    
    One of the units we use, sits on the tile floor in front of a
    fireplace.  It has slots in the bottom, with an air filter to keep
    the intake air a bit cleaner.  Being on the floor, this filter tends
    to clog with dust quicker that it might if it were installed higher
    in the room.  This might also say something about our housekeeping?!
    Another one which we use in the bedroom does not have a filter.
    
    Remember to clean the brown gunk out of the base of these units
    frequently or you could be pushing a lot of unhealty organisms
    out with that humidity.
    
    Jim

    
    RE: .5, dual ports.
    
    	In my own confusing way I was trying to say that I have a large
    	Ultrasonic with one water tank and TWO OUTPUTS... the vapor
    	can be aimed in two directions at once.
    
    
    RE: .7, Christmas trees.
    
    	For the past couple of years we have placed our humidifier close
    	to the tree and I'm convinced that it works wonders for the
    	tree. I find myself refilling the base less often and the tree
    	seems to last much longer.
    
    						
    							* MAC *

Reprinted without permission from 
	University of California, Berkeley Wellness Letter
	December, 1988


	Cool, Clean Mist

	About six years ago a new sort of device designed to raise the 
	relative humidity in homes came on the market -- the ultrasonic
	humidifier. It was thought to be superior to older kinds of
	humidifiers, which were known to spew harmful bacteria and molds
	into the air along with moisture (Wellness Letter, January, 1986).
	Because the ultrasonic humidifiers use high-frequency vibrations
	to turn water into mist, they eject no live molds and very few
	bacteria. They also operate more quietly and can humidify larger
	areas than the conventional types.

	Recent test, however, have indicated that the ultrasonic humidifiers
	have their own drawbacks. When they are filled with ordinary tap
	water -- and most people fill their humidifiers with just that,
	even if the instructions call for distilled water -- the humidifiers
	throw tiny particles of the minerals dissolved in the water into
	the air. Eventually these form a white dust that can coat furniture.
	It turns out that when inhaled, these airborn particles are small
	enough to penetrate into the deepest part of the lungs, where they
	may increase susceptibility to colds and flu as well as aggravate
	chronic respiratory diseases like asthma and bronchitis. Besides the
	minerals that naturally occur even in soft water, tap water may
	contain lead and asbestos as well as dissolved gases such as
	radon, which can adhere to the dust or water particles and "piggyback"
	into the lungs.

	How significant is the problem? Recent research by the Environmental 
	Protection Agency found that within twenty-four hours, ultrasonic 
	humidifiers using tap water of average hardness filled a test room
	with a concentration of particulate matter 40 times the recommended
	limit for outdoor air. (There are no standards for indoor air.)

	So if you use tap water in your ultrasonic humidifier, be sure to
	run it through a demineralizing filter first. In fact, some
	humidifiers come with such devices as options. If you have very
	hard water it is probably cheaper to use distilled water than to
	keep replacing filters. In any case, ultrasonic humidifiers still
	have to be cleaned regularly, following the manufacturer's
	instructions, to prevent bacterial growth that may cause allergic
	reactions.
    

    I have a small ultrasonic humidifier that seems to have lost its
    ability to mist. It stopped the other day and I noticed that by
    cleaning the small silver disc that appears to be the thing that
    somehow makes the mist, I was able to partially restore its misting
    ablility. However it is does not mist nearly as well as it use to.
    Before I file this unit into the trash and look for a new one I
    wondered oneone else had experienced this problem and if you solved
    it by cleaning something I missed. By the way I've seemed to have
    misplaced my owners manual so I don't know how to properly clean
    the unit. Is there a special cleaning fluid that can be run through
    the unit to help bring it back to normal? Thanks in advance!
    
    P.S. Mr. Moderator, I've read through the humidifier note entries
    and didn't find anything on cleaning /repairing ultrasonics, thus
    the new note.

	re: .0

       How old is the unit? Is you water loaded with calcium? Although
       not an expert on ultrasonic devices, I know they do experience a
       decrease in efficiency as they age and become calcium covered.
       I believe what happens is the resonant frequency is altered by
       the calcium deposit (probably lowered) and the driving circuitry
       doesn't have enough oomph to overcome that slight increase in
       mass. As a result, it can't jiggle the water molecules either
       fast or hard enough to produce the mist.
       
       You mentioned cleaning the disk. How well did you clean it off?
       Try using a solution of vinegar and water (about a 50-50 mix) and
       allowing the disk to stay submerged for a few hours. The acetic
       acid in the vinegar should help loosen the calcium's hold on the
       transducer so you can clean it off more thoroughly. I do this to
       my units and they work almost like new. One's three years old and
       the other's two.

       Chris

    Also, don't forget the air-inlet filters, With them clogged, air
    will not lift the mist out of the unit, and it will not work!
    
    Mike (clean ultrasonics weekly)

    How about cleaning the tank of an ultrasonic humidifier?  The instructions
    for mine say to use a solution that the manufacturer sells.  Anybody
    know what these solutions contain?  I gather that detergent is harmful
    to the misting ability.  I'm most concerned about bacteria, mold, etc.
    If I use a very weak solution of chlorine bleach, will it do any harm?
    It's very hard to get every last bit of bleach out of anything, never
    mind a tank with one small outlet.

Just an FYI...

I have a wood burning stove so the winter air is very dry.  I've been using the
standard cold mist humidifier for the past few year and have been living with
the white dust (even after filtering the water).

I just tried the new dust free humidifiers.  They're basically a vaporizer
(remember Mom with the Vick's!).  They do work.  The problem is that the heater
is 400W!  Now I need to run this thing all the time just to keep up with the
stove.  Last month's bill was outrageous, even when accounting for the cold
month.

Words of caution... They work but you pay for it.

If anyone has figured out how to get the water extra filtered, lemme know.  I've
tried filtering once at the tap and then once on the humidifier.  I still get
white dust.


/Chris

If you could find a source of free/cheap distilled water that would solve
the dust problem.  You can bu it by the gallon at discount stores for .50
or less a gallon but that can add up over time.

gary

re: .1

I use distilled water and it STILL makes white dust.  

I too would like to know how to buy/make super-filtrated water...cheaply.

    
      I don't know how your wood stove is set up, but most people
    will put a pot of water on top of the stove to generate steam
    (i.e. humidity) as the wood stove is working.  Thus you humidify
    the air at no additional cost as the stove is working anyway.
    
      Just have to make sure you monitor the pot and make sure the
    water doesn't all boil away leaving an empty pot to burn.
    
      Sometimes we forget the simple solutions that have been 
    used for years.  My relatives in Canada still do this.
    
                                Mark

    
    Re: .2
    
    	You want to buy/make water more filtered than distilled water?  By
    definition, distilled water is pure water.  If you still get the "white
    dust" with distilled water, trying to filter it more won't help you.
    
    							-craig

  Who makes it? How is this steam-type humidifier you've got different
  from other models? 

  We have a 1-gallon plastic model which was $10 at Spag's, and, aside
  from it being a lot cheaper and somewhat safer than Mom's old Vick's
  vaporizer, there's not much newfangled about it. The main problem is
  that the electrodes corrode because of our hard water, and I know I'll
  have to buy a new one soon (this is its second season). Also, it only
  holds 1 gallon, and runs for only about 7 hours. Do fancier models
  hold more water, or have special heaters which don't corrode? I'd
  definitely be interested in this.

re: .3 - I do use a pot on my stove.  Problem is, it's tough to get enough
water into the air - it can't keep up with the stove.  In addition, my stove
is "dimpled" to increase the surface area, thus reducing the amount of surface
area that touches the pot.


re: .5

This thing heats the water into a bubbling inferno and the steam is help along
with a small fan.  What's left at the bottom of the heater is all the minerals
that didn't make it out.


To give you an idea of the cost of this thing - if it runs 24 hours a day (and
it does in the dryest months with the stove cranking), then @ $.12/KWH (present
rates in Hudson, thanks Seabrook...) the cost is ~$35.00/month.  YIKES!

Distilled water works great.  The best I can find is $.95/gallon.  I don't
think that even Spag's sells it...

I de-humidify heavily in the basement all summer.  Seems that this water would
be great, but storage is a problem with bacteria, etc.


/Chris

    
    	As a slightly off-beat humidifying method, I used to have
    aquariums and found that they really helped keep the humidity up.  In
    the winter, you can leave the lid up (presuming you don't have fish
    that have a hobby of high-jumping over the sides) to aid the
    evaporation.  You'd be amazed at how much water a 20 or 30 gallon tank
    will need each day to keep it filled.
    
    	You can keep the lid down to help, but you also get more humidity
    in the summer as a drawback.
    
    								-c

    
    Maybe your pot on the stove could be improved.
    
    We have one of those VC cast iron enameled pots. It holds a LOT of
    water, and has a lattice type of vented top that lets lots of moisture
    out. We have to use it on a wire trivet because it boils out too fast
    otherwise. If your pot isn't contacting the stove well. because of the 
    ridges, why not put something in between them to raise the potup a bit.
    Maybe small tiles would work. That way your pot would get better heat
    conduction and put more water into the air.
    
    CdH
    

    RE: .6, if the stove is "cranking", why not just keep a pot on the
    stove and let its heat do the work?
    
    Eric

When it's cold and the humidity is low, the pot cannot "outdo" the stove by
putting more moisture into the air than the stove is taking away.

I will try making the top of the stove smooth.  The whole stove is not "ridged" 
but "dimpled" (do I mean "peened"?, just like a golf ball).  I'll have to spread
some stove cement over the top to fill in the little craters.  Worth a try...


/C

>When it's cold and the humidity is low, the pot cannot "outdo" the stove by
>putting more moisture into the air than the stove is taking away.

      If  you provide your stove with an outside air source it will burn
      cold, dry air from the outside rather than sucking warm, moist air
      out  of  you living area.  For specifics on how to do this see the
      literature that cam with your stove and/or talk  with  your  stove
      dealer. 

    I have a water softener in the main line and up to this year had a 
    major problem with "white dust" on everything. I found a simple 
    process to drastically reduce the amount of white dust; I run the 
    water from the "hot" tap in the kitchen through a regular drip
    coffee maker filter and then use the filtered water in my vaporizer
    humidifier - this way I can run it for several weeks with no major
    buildup of dust.
    The other method is to us the older large drum-type humidifiers, they
    do a good job, require more maintenance, but the white dust is
    "trapped" in the drum belt material, which can be simply removed and
    cleaned on a regular basis.
    

    If you are still getting white dust when using distilled water in your
    ultrasonic humidifier, either:
    
    1)	It's not distilled water (note, spring water is "naturally high in
    calcium", which is _not_ what you want.  or
    
    2)	The white dust isn't coming from the humidifier.
    
    We tried the filters and ion exchange resins and all that but the only
    thing that really works is distilled water.  now if we could only find
    a way to install one in a FHA ssystem and feed it from a large tank of
    distilled water, and have the water truck by once a month..... :+)
    
    Willie
    

How about putting a pinhole leak in a pipe in your basement, then having a 
dehumidifier run all the time, and pumping the dehumidifier output into the
humidifier?  

You can buy a water still, and make your own distilled water.  It will cost
a lot to run though, particularly since it will use electricity to heat the
water.  You can build your own wood-fired still, but the revenuers might call
on you.

Hello,

Does anyone know where I can get a new transducer for a Bionaire BT-200 
ultrasonic humidifier?  Does anyone have the telephone for Bionaire?

Thanks 

Mark

PS-the part number for the transducer is  TDK
                                          TU-26B
                                           2579

    re-1  
    Where do you live?  I bought one (I believe they are all the same
    (TDK)  and installed it but there was another problem that didn't warrent
    the extra cost of fixing it and I ended up getting a whole new unit.
    I could sell you the one I got.
    
    Steve...................

I too would like to be able to replace the transducer in one of my ultrasonic 
humidifiers.  All the ones I've seen look basically the same, but they are 
glued in (read:  not user serviceable).  It seems silly to have to junk a 
humidifier because of a wimpy transducer...


Also, I remember seeing an article in "Appliance Manufacturer" (I'm sure 
everyone gets that magazine :-) ) or "Design News" about replacement floor 
vents for FHA systems.  They have a small container and wick material, I'm 
sure -- you just pour water into them.  I think they're made by GE, Sunbeam, 
or White-Westinghouse.

If anyone's interested, I'll try to track it down.  Seems like I saw them 
advertised in a consumer-oriented publication (read: advertisement or 
newspaper) too.  I have no experience with them, though.

							-- Chuck Newman

    I dunno about humidifiers, but I do know that in ultrasonic cleaners,
    by far the most expensive part is the transducer, so if you need a new
    one you might as well but a whole new unit...
    
    Willie

RE .38

As some of the other replies imply, you need to look at the whole
unit. The tranducer is a pizo unit; very little goes wrong.
There's a switch that shuts down the ultra-sonic unit. It
sometimes gets gummed with resudue and stops the unit. The diode
in the power supply died so replacing it fixed the problem.

The transducer is easy to replace. There's a rubber seal on the
transducer and is held in place with three screws.

calvin

    One thing that was so obvious that it doesn't seem to have been
    mentioned is that the ultrasonic transducer will be almost instantly
    destroyed if you run it with no water on it.  There are interlocks, but
    they are rather easy to defeat.
    
    Willie

    re: note .38
    
    Thanks for all the replies so f.  I will do some futher checking ofthis
    weekend to see if the is something else wrong with the circuit that
    drives the transducer.
    
    I would still like to know where I could get the part, just for
    reference.
    
    Thanks All
    
    Mark 

I am looking for a part # of a SCR (I think) that came out of a ultrasonic  
humidifier. It comes from the circuit that powers the transducer. There is 
no manufacturer markings other then the following : T02A
                                                    F48A


                           _________
                          | o  O  o |
                          |         |   (not to scale)
                          |         |      
                          |  T02A   |
                          |  F48A   |  
                          |_________|    
                            || || ||
                            || || ||

Can someone try to cross reference it for me? I looked in an older copy of an  
RCA/SK replacement guide with no luck. Thanks for any help you can give me.


(Cross posted in electro_hobby)


Mark K. 

From what I can remember, the T02 is merely the "can style" - ie what sort of
case the device has, as to the F48A I'm afraid I don't know, but Tandy/RS (in
the UK) will usually have the component or equivalent - can you unsolder it
and take it into the shop ?

Nigel

    There has been several references to a 'solution' folks are
    adding to their humidifiers to reduce (or eliminate) the build
    up of bacteria.
    
    The documentation that came with our Emerson humidifier says we
    can order it from them... no price mentioned BTW...
    
    But what is the solution?  Bleach?  Lysol?  Magic?
    
    Is there anyone out there who does not add anything to the water?
    What is your experience with a bacteria problem?  Is it really
    a problem - or is it a ploy to get consumers to buy a bottle
    of magic chemicals?
    
    The thought of breathing unknown chemicals is worse than the 
    thought of breathing bacteria - IMHO.
    
    I'm very interested in folks experiences and opinions on this
    "solution/ additive" for humidifiers.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Cheryl

    
    I use Bacstop, which you cam get from most stores that sell
    humidifiers.  It smells like chlorine and costs about $2.50
    a bottle - which has lasted 6 months.
    

   Well, we just keep ours clean.
   
   We have 2 different types - one is, I believe, a vaporizer, and one
   that is an ultrasonic humidifier - I include the vaporizer because it
   serves the same basic purpose - to add moisture to the air.  
   
   We don't use them constantly - only when its really dry, or when one
   of the kids is sick and needs it to help with breathing while
   sleeping.  We have not had any problems with the kids catching
   anything from the water, and we don't add any solutions.  We do wash
   out the water tanks every few days with a germidical cleaner, but it
   gets rinsed out *very* well before we use it.  While there is probably
   some residual cleaner in the tank when we first start it up, its
   probably very, very minor.
   
   That's what works for us,
   
   - Tom

    Thanks, I'll look around for "Bacstop"... even if only
    to find out what is in it.
    
    I've always been a germ-freak so washing it out every couple of 
    days was something I had already decided to do - tho I did wonder
    if it was necessary.   Seems like it is the right idea.
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Cheryl

There are many brands of bacteriostatic solutions which are meant for
ultrasonic humidifiers.  Almost any store which carries the humidifiers will
have them.

				Steve

    
    Re Bacstop.  I remembered to look when I filled the humidifier. It's
    Ammonium Chloride and 94% distilled water.  It's only suitable for wick
    or filter type room humidifiers.  According to the instructions, you
    still have to wash out the machine, which I do every few days.
    
    C

    Well, I knew it would come to this...  :-)
    
    What type of machine do we have anyway!?
    
    Pour the water in 'here' and set the dial to desired %
    humidity - and a big fan inside comes on and just blows the
    moisture around...?
    
    Sorry, I'll check the book tonight - it's the old RTFM :-}
    
    re:  Ammonium Chloride ... wonder why they would specify the 
    type of machine...?  Anything added to water that only has a fan
    blowing over it shouldn't hurt much.  You're still breathing it in.
    
    yes?

    The manual calls it: "A Humidifier Console"
    
    
    Like I said  ...
    
     Pour the water in 'here' and set the dial to desired %
     humidity - and a big fan inside comes on and just blows the
     moisture around...?
    

    I only read the last few entries, but I believe Legionaires disease can
    be spread by air handling systems that use water; cleanliness IS a
    virtue here.  The risk of chemical hazard is probably less than a
    bacteria pit in the living room...
    
    Carl

	Well this is the only humidifier topic with bateria also in the
	title so this looks as good a spot as any .....

	I'm looking for an additive to add to the water that I put into
	my 8-gallon evaporative humidifier.  I had inherited a bottle
	and was using it til it ran out and I threw the bottle away
	thinking it would be easy to find.  However I'm having no luck
	finding it at places like Bradlee's or the Supermarkets (Shaws,
	Market Basket, Shop & Save).

	This additive is supposed to prevent baterial growth, and
	also help prevent the build up of those mineral deposits
	on the wicking filters.

	Does anyone know of a source for such a thing, or a home made
	equivlent (I used to use a little clorox bleach but that makes
	the whole place smell like bleach!)?

    Since you're obviously in the MA/NH area, try Lechmere, though you
    can probably also find it at places like K-mart, etc.  I'll bet
    Bradlees does have it or is perhaps out of stock.  I see the stuff
    everywhere.
    
    				Steve

	Thanks for the info.  I actually spoke one day too soon as
	I was over at the new "Home Goods" store tonight looking
	for some other items and ran across some stuff.  They didn't
	have a single product that did both anti-bacteria and prevents
	that mineral buildup, but I picked up a bottle of stuff
	for each, $2.50-$3 each.  Hopefully these will last for
	this winter ....

	    My ultra-sonic humidifier died.  8^(   I measure AC voltage to
	the sonic transducer so I figure the transducer is kaput.  Problem
	is, I don't know where to find a replacement part.  Any pointers
	would be appreciated.  It's a Douglas Products unit and the trans-
	ducer is TDK # TU-26B.

					Tim