Conference 7.286::home_work

Well, brands of paint are just like brands of toilet paper. Each person 
has his/her favorite! My personal favorite is Sherwin_Williams. I've 
used other brands, but over the course of years have always fallen back 
on my old 'standard.' Most stores have sales going on all the time...so 
the stuff's not any more or less expensive than another brand. 

Another tip...buy the *BEST* paint...it usually has the longest 
guarantee and does the best job of covering as well as protecting. I 
hate to paint, so that's my insurance that it won't have to be done too 
soon... 

    Well, here's a vote against Sherwin Williams and for Benjamin Moore.
    (Spag's sells Benjamin Moore at good prices, too.)  A friend of
    mine is a Glidden fanatic, but I tried it and didn't like it.
    There really is a big personal preference factor involved.
    
    Definitely buy the best paint you can find.  Compared to all the
    work of putting it on, the cost of the paint is trivial.  In the
    absence of other information, buy the most expensive.
    
    Steve

Don't forget the brush!  I've seen people struggle trying to get god results
with a cheap brush.  Ever heard of a sash brush?  Rather than a square end they
are cut at an angle which makes them perfect for doing clean edges.  A good sash
brush I like is 2 inches wide and usually goes for about 3 dollars at SPAGS
which implies 4 or 5 dollars elsewhere (yes, SPAGS is that much cheaper!).

Another thing to look at is the type of finish you want.  Trim plain basically
comes in three finishes -- flat, semi-gloss and glossy.  I personally prefer
semi-gloss for trim because I like the way it looks.  

Another thing to look for in a paint (which if you get GOOD paint you shouldn't
have to worry about) is scrubability.  Some paints go up looking nice and as
soon as you try to wash them they come off. 

    Check your public library: Consumer Reports regularly covers paints. I
    forget when their last article was, but check the indexes for the past
    couple of years, or the annual buying guide issue. They test coverage,
    resistance to abrasion ("scrubability"), and resistance to fading.
    Sometimes the best brand depends on the color you're buying. 

    I'm not greatly experienced with paint, but I just used some Benjamin
    Moore alkyd semi-gloss (from Nashua Wallpaper) and am really pleased.
    What sold me was the ease of matching color. Most paint chips come on a
    card with a range of vaguely related colors. The paint chips on one of
    Benjamin Moore's cards appear to have precisely the same hue, with
    varying degrees of lightness. I could not locate the shade of blue I
    wanted using any other manufacturer's paint chips. 
    
    I know someone who recently did a kitchen in Hancock paint, and is also
    pleased. If you bring them a color sample, they run it through a
    little machine and claim to match it precisely.
    
	    					Val

    If you buy from Nashua Wallpaper (good place), and you buy more
    than a little, don't forget to ask for the contractor's discount.
    
    Of course, if you're only spending $50, they probably won't give
    you the discount.

    My first comment is to buy good paint;  your labor is the most costly
    factor in this process.  Over the years,  I have tried all major
    brands of paint.  I recommend the Sherwin-Williams family which
    includes: Sherwin-Williams, Dutch Boy and Martin-Senour.  It is
    all manufactured by Sherwin-Williams.  These brands do have different
    quality levels so buy the top of the line.  A good brush and a good
    quality paint usually insures a good job.  Cheaper paints won't
    cover as well and tend to wash off.  I have also had good luck with
    Sear's Best paint but only buy it when it is on sale.
    (Sherwin-Williams/Dutch Boy/Martin-Senour have an '800' number for
    the location of your nearest dealer;  they will also send you paint
    chips for their lines such as the Williamsburg series, etc.)
    
    Steve

    By all means buy good paint.  My favorite is Nubrite or NuBrite
    (however you spell it).  The worst I've used is Dutch Boy.  The
    outside of my house was painted with NuBrite over 10 years ago and
    still looks like it was just done.  NuBrite is also very good for
    patching.  Whenever I paint something I keep a little jar, like
    a spice jar of it in the room and use a Q-tip to touch up corners
    and the like.  (I must be clumsey going around corners.)  The nice
    thing is that when it's dry it matches perfectly.  They have a
    semi-gloss called "eggshell" this is especially nice for walls because
    you can scrub it and it comes out like new without washing off.
    (I am also messy in the kitchen.)
    
    One other suggestion.  Cutting in - you know, where one color comes
    up against the other or baseboards and door frames - is the most
    time consuming.  I usually do two coats of cutting in first and
    then can roll a whole room in a about two hours.  Sometimes if the
    humidity is low enough you can roll two coats in the same day if
    all the cutting in is done ahead.
    
    Have fun.
    

    Well, I went to Nashua wallpaper and bought Benjamin Moore's Aquaglo.
    Reg 23 a GAL, their price $17.
    
    Chose this one because of several comments made in notes, from friends
    and Consumer Reports.
    
    Thanks for help.
    
    P.S. Put it on last night.... very easy to apply, quick drying (2
    hrs to the touch)
    
    Gary

    HELLO - I'M NEW TO THIS NOTE FILE AND SO FAR FIND IT VERY INTERESTING
    BECAUSE I OWN A HOUSE ABOUT 180 YEARS OLD.
    
    ANYWAY, I HAVE A QUESTION IN REGARDS TO CHANING THE COLOR ON
    APPLIANCES.  I HAVE A GOLD DISHWAHER AND WHITE REFRIGERATOR THAT
    I WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE TO "ALMOND".
    
    DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON THE TYPE OF PAINT
    I WOULD USE AND WHERE TO PURCHASE IT?
    
    OR DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO COULD DO THIS TYPE OF WORK?
    
    THANKS FOR YOUR INPUTS.

    
    1: I would do it to my OWN appliances becuase I have a compressor,
       the spray guns and have painted cars and stuff before.
    
    2: You shouldn't do it yourself unless you have or have done some
       of the above.
    
    3: The type of paint is enamel, the original finish is baked on
       in an oven.  Spray cans will result in what would look like the
       subway of NYC.

    4: Sorry, but I have no idea where you could get this done.
    
    						.dave.
    

    
    Call some appliance stores.  For a small fee, a lot of them will
    paint the panels for you.  I once changed the color of a dishwasher
    this way--changed from gold to white.  The painted panels looked
    like new and you couldn't tell the difference between those and
    "factory originals."  I think I paid about $20 for the paint job,
    but that was a while ago.
    
    

I did it two years ago and I am very happy with the results.  

I moved into a house and redid the kitchen.  I wanted to save the old 
dishwasher and oven.  I figured I'd give it a try and if it didn't work
out I'd buy new ones.  I took off the doors to both, stripped off all of
the chrome, etc. so that all I had was painted metal.  I cleaned, very
carefully years of crud off of the metal, lightly sanded with 200 grit 
sandpaper, wiped the dust off with a rag soaked in thinner, several times
replacing the rag.  I moved the doors to an area where I could place them
horizontally so that I would get no drips and used a spray can (yes, a can!)
of appliance paint.  Any big hardware store will carry it.  It looks great.
It holds up to our wear and tear and even the oven temperatures during self
clean cycle are no problem.  

It'd be much tougher to paint a refrigerator and have it come out looking good,
but any other appliances I would do again.

--ed/    
    

    
    My parents once had a fridge painted at a body shop, so that would
    be another possibility.  (This was in Florida in '69.)

     I know a guy who had the color of his refrigerator changed
     about 4 years ago.  As I recall, it cost $50.  He is on
     vacation this week, but when he returns I will ask him the
     name of the company.  He lives in Franklin and I think the
     company was also from that town.


     Mark

    

    I *have* done a few 'fridges. The last job came out very well. 
    I painted a brown 'fridge glossy black. Only found coverage problems 
    on the top of the fridge where I couldn't get enough light to judge my
    progress.
    
    This is how I got good results:
    
    * strip the appliance of all decorative moldings (chrome, etc.).
    
    * Move the appliance somewhere that you can spill paint with abondon.
      (I tried to paint carefully indoors surrounded by newspapers and
      plastic. But, paint went everywhere anyway. Fortunately, my home
      is a construction site ... folks don't notice the odd patterns
      on the old indoor-outdoor carpeting. ;^)
  
    * Get lots of light all around it so that you can see the progress
      each step of your job, and catch any "holidays".
      
    * Clean the appliance 'till it squeeks. 
      
    * Lightly sand as in .-2. Clean off the dust very thoroughly as
      in .-2.
    
    * Very carefully mask off rubber gaskets, integral plastic moldings,
      even the entire interior of the 'fridge with masking tape and
      clear plastic. It's *amazing* where paint can reach. This is 80% 
      of a good job!
    
    * Now, mask yourself off ;^). You know, old clothes, shower cap
      for your head, safety glasses for your eyes, *respirator or filter*
      for your lungs! It's *amazing* where paint can reach.
    
    * You may now paint (*whew*). Use a 'good quality' enamel.
      Working *patiently*, put on a series of light coats.
      Don't get impatient or assume that because the last coat
      looks good, you can go a little heavier with this coat.
   
      Follow the directions on the can of paint for timing 
      of successive coats (they were explicit on the paint that
      I bought, I just can't remember what the directions were
      for you the gentle reader). 
    
      When painting, keep your arm motions completely parrallel to 
      the surface you're painting and keep the spray completely perpendicular
      to the surface. 
     
      And, finally, put each coat on in a different
      direction, or you'll end up seeing a "grain" or "stripes" 
      in the paint job.
      
    Needless to say, this last successful 'fridge painting was but one
    of a series of not-so-successful attempts. But, it is possible to
    do a good job with a little patience and preparation. Good luck in your
    endevours.
    
    bd

        This is one project I'd never attempt myself, however I had
    my fridge changed from gold to almond several years ago by a guy
    out of n.h.. he made a trip to mass. about once a month. he did
    an excellent job! ~ 95.00... here are several #'s
    
                   Appliance refinishing corp.----1-800-238-0123
    
                             "       "              603-483-8681
    
                   New finish co.                   603-485-7610
    
    These guys close off your rooms, use an exhaust fan, remove all
    chrome, sand, and paint everything......BTW they dont guarranty
    any appliances with the porcelin tops i.e. ... stoves,washers etc..
    because the paint does'nt stick all that good
                                                    good luck!

    When a friend of mine bought his house the kitchen had a coppertone
    colored fridge that was scratched. As it turned out the neighbor
    across the street came over to say hi and mentioned that he paints
    appliances and could paint it any color.  Unfortunately the 
    fridge died and was replaced so never did have the old one painted.
    
    This man (Carl) does a booming business....he paints all kinds
    of things (appliances, cars) and has had many large contracts with 
    the city as well as doing small jobs.   I like his direct style and 
    believe he would be honest and fair.  If you had questions about the 
    process and guarantees etc I think he'd be on the level with you.
    
    The name is  DO ALL PAINT WORKS
                5 Shady Lane, Nashua
                 (603) 888-5065
    
    Say David (his neighbor) recommended him 

     Is it possible to paint over vinyl wallpaper (e.g., in a
     kitchen)?  
						-- Nina

    Only paint over vinyl wallpaper if you are masochistic and have
    no taste in decorating.
    
    Really, either you or someone in the future will be verry angry
    come redecoration time.
    
    -boB

    It should be easy to remove the wallpaper if its vinyl.  Just start
    pulling gently at a corner, and the whole strip should come off
    in one piece.  No steam or chemicals needed.  If the wallpaper has
    a paper backing, the vinyl will come off the wall, and leave the
    backing.  A wet sponge (warm) should loosen the backing.
    
    Don't paint over wallpaper.  Its worth it to remove it now.
    
    /Eric

    We removed vinyl wallpaper in the bathroom.  It was easy to pull off.
    However, our walls are this sheetrock/wallboard stuff covered with
    paper, and often the paper would be pulled off along with the wallpaper
    (no matter how carefully we tried to remove it).  This left a lot of
    "rough" areas on the walls.  Some of them we covered with joint
    compound and sanded, etc. But it was kind of a pain. 

    We're not sure we want to go to the trouble of wallpapering the
    kitchen, so we were hoping for an easy way out.  But I guess there's 
    no such thing! Sigh... 

    Thanks for your suggestions.

							-- Nina

    
    If you don't seal new dry wall with some kind of primer before you
    wallpaper, then you will tear it when you remove the wallpaper.
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Oil-base primer (Alkyd??) works MUCH better than latex primer if
    you're going to wallpaper over it.  We just finished removing wallpaper
    from a room (originally primed with oil base) and painting it, and
    almost all the sheetrock facing stayed intact.
    
    -db

RE .4 -- We did use primer before we re-wallpapered the bathroom, but
it's doubtful whether primer was applied when the apartment building
was originally built...! (el cheapo construction)

RE .5 -- Thanks for the advice on oil-base primer.  I think we used
latex for the bathroom.  Oh, well.  If we re-wallpaper the kitchen,
we'll look into applying oil-base primer beforehand.

							-- Nina

    	Anyone know where I can find epoxy based paint?  This is a two-part
    mix.  Thanks.
    
    __Rich

    
    
    You should be able to find epoxy paints at Bliss Marine.
    
    

    Almost any specialty paint store carries epoxy paint. Also Spag's
    (of course) Sears carries it as well. See note 63.*. Also do a search
    on EPOXY.
    There *may* be more than one kind of epoxy paint. The marine paint
    *may* be inappropriate for your needs.
    
				have fun
    				herb    
    

    Epoxy paint is also used on radio control models.  Check a local
    hobby shop.  If this type of paint fits your need, they sell it
    in smaller quantities (8 oz, I think).
    
    Cheers,
    jeff
    

are you planning on using this for a bathtub,  (or any other heavy-use
surface) If so, Don't - you can't clean it without causing peeling,
and (in my tub) its excellent at absorbing copper, etc stains that
-won't come out-.  (of course, maybe I just got a bad can, - other 
comments?)

    I'm planning on painting the _inside_ of a homebuilt wooden fish
    aquarium (Jeff, you probably don't believe me).
    
    This is based on plans that I have from someone who says that it
    works very well (by the way, at least one side will have a glass
    window).
    
    The point about certain types being unsuitable - yes, I definitely
    would want, say, a mildicide in it.

    Thanks for the suggestions.
    
    __Rich

    re: .5
    
>        The point about certain types being unsuitable - yes, I definitely
>    would want, say, a mildicide in it.

    Somehow, I don't think that any kind of poison belongs in a fish
    tank.  Maybe that's because I'm a JOET::HOME_WORK kinda guy, and
    not a PICA::FISH person.
    
    -joet

     You have to be VERY careful about what you put in a fish tank.
    
    If you want live fish that is.:-)
    
    					Kenny

    This _is_ begin pursued offline with some pica::fish people.  I've
    been keeping fish off and on for 19 years.  Apparently, the right
    kind of epoxy paint is just fine.
    
    __Rich
    
    p.s. the "would" in my last reply should have been "wouldn't" of
    course.  Sorry for the confusion. I wouldn't even let a can of
    mildicide be brought into the same room as one that I keep fish
    in.

    I started stripping some wallpaper and found 2 layers of paper plus
    1 layer of paper that had been painted over.  Should I strip to
    the plaster? If so, how do I remove the painted paper which is
    peeling?Or should I wallpaper over the top layer and not strip
    anything? HELP! 

    Score the surface of the painted paper with a wire brush or something
    as such and continue.  My livingroom had SEVEN layers, YUK!
    
    -boB

I agree with .-1.  btw - is the paper over sheetrock or plaster?  The 
nice thing about plaster is that it's real hard and easy to score.  if 
you have sheetrock you have to tread VERY lightly or you'll do a number 
on it.

Can I assume you're using an electric steamer?  If so, see if you can 
return it and rent a gas one.  For a long time they've been banned 
(people don't think they have to be vented and gas themselves!).  But I 
hear they're starting to make a comeback.  they outperform electric ones
at least 10000:1 and for the extra $$'s they're well worth it.

-mark

    A couple of months ago, I removed some wallpaper that was part paper
    and part felt. I rented a steamer, which didn't help very much.
    I talked to my brother-in-law, who had also done some wallpaper
    removal recently, and he told me he used some chemical called
    (cleverly enough) wallpaper remover - I think the brand was
    Imperial.
    
    Anyway, what a difference. I filled his insect-spray pump with the
    stuff, and the paper almost fell off the wall itself!! Now I'm
    generally a skeptical person myself, and when he told me his paper
    practically came off the walls by itself, MY response was "yeah,
    sure...". 
    
    To make a long story short (oops, too late), I would recommend using
    the chemical over a steamer any day.

    How old is your house?  One of the other replies mentioned plaster
    or wallboard, my house is very old and it has what we call horsehair
    plaster (maybe it has another name) but if this is under your last
    coat of wallpaper leave the last layer of paper on.  In removing
    it, you will remove lots of the horsehair plaster, take it from
    the voice of experience.
    
    Someone suggested to me that I leave the last layer of paper on,
    just sand down the seams and use joint compound to smooth out the
    sanded seams with the paper.  The new paper looks fine and sure
    beats replastering the entire wall.
    
    I have a couple of other areas that have some cracks, the wallpaper
    man suggested I use this paper on the wall then size it and paper,
    it will prevent the new wallpaper from cracking.  I bought the 
    stuff but have not put it on yet this might be another suggestion
    for you.
    
    Judie
    
    

    Forgot to mention, The WALLPAPER REMOVER chemical works great, far
    superior to the steamer.  Just make sure to have something waterproof
    over your rug or floor because you are spraying liquid on your wall
    and it drips.
    
    Judie
    
    

    
    Re.3 & .5
               I presume the walpaper remover was used on 'normal' paper.
    ie. not vinyl, I have tried walpaper remover on vinyl with about
    as much success at Custer had at Little Big Horn. The problem here
    is that some smart guy will say "score the plastic cover with a
    wire brush first" the result of this operation resembles a hedgehog
    rolled in a cow-pat.
     
      I HATE HATE HATE!!!!! Vinyl wallpaper.
    
                   Chris H
     

re:-1

I think vinyl wallpaper is great!  Or are to referring to removing it?  
Most vinyls are stripable and very easy to remove.  The problem is the 
paste that then gets left behind.  Sounds like that removal stuff from a 
few notes ago would do equally well on the paste.

-mark

    Just want to add something about wallpaper and horse-hair plaster. We
    used to have an old house (200+ years) and a close friend recommended
    that before we paper the walls we apply this thick (about as heavy as
    the cover on a paperback book) plain white paper as a base to smooth
    out the many areas that had been patched.  We did ... it was easy as
    you really don't have to worry too much about seams, etc.  The result
    was that new paper was extremely easy to put up (make sure it's
    strippable) and our lumpy walls looked like new! 
    
    Just wanted to pass that along.

    Pete

    P.S. to .8:
    
    When we used chemical stripper we purchased a rechargeable sprayer
    (holds a quart, used for spraying plants) for about $12 and it
    contributed heavily to what turned out to be a pleasant stripping
    experience.  Think we bought it at Spag's.
    
    Pete

    We have stripped the vinyl wallpaper from the kitchen walls and
    had some of what appears to be the paper on the sheet rock come
    off at the same time.  This didn't happen very often, but it definitely
    creates a problem when you want to paint the walls later.  In some
    other areas, it appears that the top layer of the paper covering
    on the sheet rock got too wet when they put up the wallpaper or
    else the priming coat of paint was too thinly applied because the
    it has rippled.  My question is:  What is the best way to repair
    this problem??
    
    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
    
    bruce

I would think the best way to smooth rips below the level of the 
sheetrock would be by spackling.

    
       I have just moved into a 17th Century cottage which seems to
    suffer from humidity and condensation.  This may be related to
    the problem that I have.  A part of the kitchen wall (paint on
    brick/plaster) looks diseased.   The paint/plaster is like a
    growth and is coming away from the wall.  The infected area is
    only about a foot square and there is no discoloring or mould.
    Obviously I would like to scrape all this junk off the wall and
    replaster and paint the wall.  Is this likely to work or do I
    have to treat the area with some chemical, or something ?
    
                                     JE.
    

    If your house (cottage) dates from the 17th Century, I would be
    very careful in removing the diseased portion.  It may be hiding
    some secret witchcraft spells or the like. :-)

    We had a similar problem in our 18th Century house!  We found that
    the problem was caused by a sweating water pipe behind the wall.
    Apparently the cellar didn't have adequate airflow/ventilation and
    the pipes were sweating causing dampness, mold and a generally musty
    stench.  This lack of ventilation also caused the bricks around
    the fireplace to become moldy, etc.  The first thing we did was
    make screens for all the cellar windows and opened it up.  We left
    it ventilated through the good months and the problem cleared up.
    
    As for the wall.  When I was restoring that room I was hoping to
    save the original plaster.  When I removed the wallpaper the plaster
    was too damaged in that "wet" area to save.  I replaced what I had
    to, and when it set I washed the whole area (new and old plaster)
    with bleach.  This kills any fungus, etc. that's growing.  When
    that was dry (I waited a day).  I primed the area with BIN.  That's
    a primer that covers water stains.  If you don't use this your paint
    will cover, but several days later you'll notice the spot seeping
    through again.  
    
    Good luck.  If this doesn't work maybe you do have witches :-)
    

    Being a new user I apologize if this subject has been dicussed.
    (I couldn't find it).
    	
    	My problem is painting over my old woodwork which has got
    about 10 coats of varnish on it.
    	I'm not really prepared to go the whole route of completly
    stipping it but the paint doesn't seem to cover it either; I've
    put 2 coats of paint on and it still doesn't cover completly.
    	I've tried some sanding but that doesn't seem to help either.
    
    		Any help would be most appreciated...
    			(my wife's driving me crazy!)
    
    					Thanks,
    						Brian
    

    Brian,
    
    My suggestion would be to find a good "BASKETBALL SPONSOR" to answer
    your questions. Get the hint.
    
    Regards
    Jeff

    re.1
   		I feel so silly;  10 Q.
     

    Your problem could have many facets but I'll try to cover the normal
    ones.
    
      First you SHOULD expect to need two coats to cover over varnished
    woodwork if you're using almost any color except black.
    
     You SHOULD lightly sand the woodwork with 80 or 100 grit aluminum
    oxide sandpaper before doing any painting, AND in between each coat.
     Use an old or cheap brush to dust-off the woodwork from the top-down
    before painting.
     For the first coat you should use a good quality (read, brand name)
    Enamel Undercoater.
     For the second coat you should use a semi-gloss Latex or Oil-based
    paint. In actuality an oil-based semi-gloss will give you a somewhat
    better finish, but for many people , Latex based paint is easier
    to use and clean up. With the Latex paint, the faster drying prevents
    the brushmarks from leveling out, so the finish is not as smooth
    and the brushmarks show more. Both are easily washable. For a
    non-professional the best Oil-based semi-gloss I've found so far
    is Sherwin-Williams Classic 99. It's not cheap but it works well
    and gives an excellent finish.
     Use a good quality natural (Chineese) bristle brush in the 2" size, which
    is cut at an angle (for tight spots). A poor quality brush is coarser
    and will cause larger brushmarks making it harder to cover over
    old paint.
     Put a small (#4) nail into the side of the brush just above the
    metal. Then bend it over to hang the brush on the can with so it doesn't
    become saturated with paint. Not only will this make it easier to
    use, but it won't be as messy and will be easier to clean.
     Buy and USE a paint pot. They're cheap, last forever and make things
    a lot easier and cleaner. You can also use it to clean out your
    brush if you use oil based paint.
     Lastly, don't be afraid to thin the paint. Thicker paint does NOT
    give better protection or a better job. It just makes it take longer
    to dry, harder to apply and uses your paint faster. It's impossible
    to describe how to judge paint viscosity (without a gauge or
    experience), but the paint should not feel very sticky as your're
    brushing it on.
    
    	It's quite a lot but hopefully it will help you
    					Kenny

    I just removed vinyl wallpaper that I put up 15 years ago and it
    all came down in about an hour. That was a hallway and a kitchen.
    
    I am sure the reason is that I sized the walls before I put the
    vinyl paper up. You can mix up a pretty good batch of the sizing
    from a 1 lb. box. You must re-size the walls each time however.
    
    You can get it at any hardware store.
    
    As for note .10  I ripped my wallboard paper when removing paneling
    and there is no other way that I know of except to spackle. This
    means at least two applications with sanding.
     
     

    One more thing on vinyl (PREPASTED) wallpaper and sizing. 
    
    If you are going to spend alot of money on good vinyl wallpaper
    (~ $16.00 + a roll) be sure to size the walls before you put up
    the stuff. The manufacturer guarantees their product but it must 
    be applied per their instructions which includes sizing. Otherwise,
    your stuck if it starts peeling. 
                                
    

RE -.2:
Any advice for taking down multiple (2) layers of wallpaper, with the
top layer painted?  I stripped a poorly hung bathroom by using
chemicals, but for this I thought steamers would be required, NO? 

>	Otherwise, your stuck if it starts peeling. 

Or unstuck, as the case may be.


:^)

    I just took the paper off my bedroom wall (the previous owner had
    already started peeling it off).  What was left was what looks to
    be the backing of the wallpaper.  It's brown and has a paperish
    texture.  I don't think its the drywall.
    
    I want to put up new wallpaper (a wallpaper novice here), but I'm
    not sure if I should try and strip this off (doesn't peel off) or
    just put some sort of oil-based enamel (advice from a book) or
    sizing over it (what is the sizing compound anyway, diluted paste?)
    
    Help!

    If you peeled the paper off "dry" then what you have left on the
    wall probably is the remains of the back of the wall paper. 
    
    Try wetting an area with some warm water, let it sit for a minute or
    two and then scrap using a wide putty knife. If wet "mush" comes off
    and leaves a hard clean smooth surface, then it was the wallpaper. You
    can now proceed to do the whole room. You might want to try warm water
    with vinegar, or commercial water paper stripping solution. Use either
    a bucket and a sponge or you might want to using a spray bottle. 
    
    If you don't find a smooth hard surface below the brown mush but rather
    a soft rough white surface, the wallpaper removal may have stripped off the
    surface of the sheetrock and the "brown paper" might be what remains of
    the surface of the sheetrock. Now you've got problems.
    
    Charly

Having just painted a new inside wall in my house I would like to start 
a discussion on PAINT.  

Specifically I would like to expand upon some previous notes 
with replies for priming (new wood, old, and wallboard), paint finishes 
(flat, semi-gloss, gloss), paint brands preferred by conference 
members, painting technique (brush, roll, spray), and brush clean up.

I know its a lot to ask but I still knew very little about interior 
painting after having read all the related notes in the conference.

I'll start by summing up some what I've learned.

Priming (Indoor)

Fresh Wood             yes, if to be covered with latex paint
Painted wood           Not needed
New Wallboard          yes, if to be covered with latex paint, but 
                       different type from fresh wood.


Paint finishes  - 3 major types
Flat                   dull finish, recommended use walls
Semi-gloss             recommended for molding and doors
Gloss                  ?

Brush cleanup - see note 197.

Gary

    I'm going to paint the house exterior.  It's currently white, but
    my wife has expressed a strong desire for a *very* dark gray.
    We checked one line of paint (Tru-Test) at the local lumberyard/
    hardware store, and they had nothing dark enough, even in custom
    mix.  We tried doubling the pigment in the darkest gray on
    their chart (cost $6.00 to experiment on a quart) and it
    *still* wasn't dark enough.  The store doesn't want to put
    more pigment in (won't fit in the can?), and said that some
    bases can only be tinted so far.   So, where can we find
    a really DARK gray.  "Charcoal (sp?) Gray" springs to mind.

    I'd *much* prefer a latex paint to oil-base.
    
    			George

    re .1:
    
    Check the line of pre-mixed exterior paints at Aubachon Hardware,
    for a color called Onyx. Can't remember the brand name of the paint,
    but I'm sure you'll find it on one of their color chip brochures.

Oh boy, this is just the note I need!

I'm doing some interior painting of an old house.  I hear that it's best to 
use oil based paints 'cause they settle smoother.  Is this true?  Also, 
what is the difference between alkyd, and oil base???

thanks,
..bill

>Paint finishes  - 3 major types
>Flat                   dull finish, recommended use walls
>Semi-gloss             recommended for molding and doors
>Gloss                  ?

Gloss is good for moldings, railings, especially good for exterior trim
and for areas that will have to be cleaned quite a lot.  It's easy to
get dirt off a gloss finish, less easy to get it off a semi-gloss and 
nearly impossible to get off a flat finish.  People with small children
tend to use gloss paint where people without children would use
semi-gloss. (Likewise, they use semi-gloss where childless people would
use a flat. People with small children NEVER use flat paint unless
they're re-blacking the inside of a telescope or something like that...)

					>>>==>PStJTT

    The latest? issue of Consumer Reports has an article (and ratings) on
    outdoor paint and stain.

    re .2;
    
    	BINGO!  I went to Aubuchon's last night, and 'Deep Onyx' was
    exactly what we were looking for.  Bought 8 gallons @ $10.99.
    
    The paint is Glidden.  Thanks.
    
    			George

    One thing to be careful of is that the darker the paint, the faster
    it will fade.  This was pointed out to us when we painted our house
    last year (we painted it slate-blue)  If you can go with a slightly
    ligher color (so the paint person said) your paint won't fade as
    much.  (yes, even a small shade difference is noticable)
    
    
    -bill

    
    
    O.K. .... I searched thru the key words in 1111.* and went to
    the related paint files.. only to not answer my question(s).
    
    We are planning to paint our house (weather permitting) these
    next 2 weeks (it has to be scraped first).  My questions are,
    the latex paint is peeling off a .. off white color paint underneath,
    my brother seems to think that the off white is a oil-base and
    that's why the latex is peeling.. I think it's peeling for other
    reasons (wasn't cleaned/scraped/properly preped/painted in damp
    weather..etc).   now the question part.. will the latex stick/adhere
    to oil-base paint?  Is there a positive way to check the off-white
    to be sure it is/isn't oil-base?   If latex will not stick to oil-base,
    is there a primer that we can (should) use as a 'buffer' paint.
    
    if it's of any help in answering these questions... the house was
    built in 1965... and I have no idea when the latex was applied.
    
    thanks 
    Keith
    

    If the under coat is oil base. Olympic makes a latex based paint
    that goes over stain. I'm using it now on my house that has Cabot's
    oil stian on it.  Not only does this paint cover and go on easy.
    It is great for clean ups.  Currier lumber in Amhearst, N.H. sells
    it.
    
    Don
    

    	Latex over oil is no problem.   However, don't use latex over
    an alcohol based primer-sealer such as BIN, SCL, or other similar
    type brands of sealers.  If you use a primer-sealer, paint it first
    with an oil based paint, then use the latex. (usually on exterior
    things like a house you use a primer-sealer on spots, knots, etc)
    
    	Try getting a chip of the off-white base coat, and see if it
    stretches or just breaks with a snap.  Sometimes latex will retain
    it's resillency and actually stretch even after years outside. 
    Oil based products will crack and snap in half with little effort.
    It's not a 100% accurate test, but will give you some idea of what
    you've got there.         

    RE: .2
    
>   	Latex over oil is no problem.   However, don't use latex over
>    an alcohol based primer-sealer such as BIN, SCL, or other similar
>    type brands of sealers.  If you use a primer-sealer, paint it first
>    with an oil based paint, then use the latex. (usually on exterior
>    things like a house you use a primer-sealer on spots, knots, etc)


    Why can't you use a latex paint over BIN???  I don't remember the
    can of BIN saying anything about this restriction.

      Latex paint will NOT stick to shiny, or dirty paint. If the top
    layer is peeling away from the next layer (as opposed to all of
    it peeling from the wood) then you must have one of those conditions.
    If the paint you wish to use latex over is either shiny or dirty
    it should be washed with a strong solution of TSP and water. This
    can be applied with a sponge, brush, or best of all a high-pressure
    washer.
    
    					Kenny

    I use latex paint over BIN and have never had a problem.  Maybe
    I'm lucky, maybe just stupid.
    
    C

    	RE: Latex over BIN
    
    	You are correct that the can does not mention, not using latex
    over their product, however, latex paints have a tough time binding
    to alcohol based sealers.  It's possible that a GOOD latex paint
    will bind properly, but it is generally regarded among dealers that
    a primer of oil based paint over "BIN, etc" type products is needed
    to ensure a good finish coat of latex.
    	I use to work for a paint dealer, and we never recommended oil
    based over alcohol until some customer primer-sealed his entire
    house with SCL primer-sealer, then covered it with latex.  His entire
    house peeled within 6 months.  Luckily, we got out of the situation
    ok, but the paint wholesaler was threatened with court action and
    ended up supplying the person with oil based paint to re-do his
    house.  After that episode, we always recommended (and I still do)
    that you seal only what is needed, prime those sealed areas with
    oil, and then cover with latex.  Of course, if you go all oil, no
    problem.
    

    I've used a latex primer over BIN and never had a problem either.
    However, I used the spray BIN and the resulting surface was not
    too smooth.  Maybe that's why it stuck so good.
    
    Mr. HateTo Paint
    
    Gerry
    

    	Rather than start yet another note on paint my question can
    be perceived to fit here.
    
    	Don't ask silly questions such as why did I do such a dumb thing!
    
    	Two years ago, shortly after moving into a new home, I
    polyurathaned (sp?) all the baseboards and interior doors.  The
    wood in question is the basic pine and/or hollow venier to which the
    builder, again responding to my stupidity, applied an ebony stain.
    My wife was against staining the wood from the beginning and I voted
    against her on this point and won.  Now I realize how correct she
    was and wish to paint the wood.  Question, can I paint over
    polyurathane?  If not, what would you suggest I do, short of replacing
    the baseboards and doors.                                             
    
    Douglas

    RE:.9
    
    I have had good luck painting over polyurathane by first applying
    a undercoat or primer by Muralo. The name is something like Enamel Undercoat
    and Primer. It seems to stick to almost anything.
    
    Good luck
    VCS
    

      Sand lightly with 100 grit sandpaper and then prime with an oil-based
    enamel undercoater. You may then procede to paint with whatever
    you wish.
    
    					Kenny

    I know very little about painting. I found a book on painting
    and wallpapering by Ortho, it turned out to be a pretty good
    book.
    
    I'm interested in painting over wallpaper. I read that you can
    paint over wallpaper as long as all the paper is stuck on there
    good. The paper does not have a shiny finish. The book said to
    put on a couple coats of primer first.
    
    My question is if I put a couple of coats of primer then paint
    over the wallpaper how bad will it be to get off later? The
    room will be used as a study, msot all of the walls will be
    covered with book cases and I doubt I will ever remove while
    I'm living there but you never know!
    
    This notes file is really the greatest, guess who just bought
    a house! Thanks in advance for your help.
    
    Linda
    
    

Aarrgghhh......

Don't paint over wallpaper!!!!!!

We just moved into a house where they did that in almost every room. 
Not only did it look lousy (and cheapen the cost of the house), it
could not be painted over again, and required quite professional
handling to remove it. 

On the other hand, removing wallpaper is quite easy.  You get 
wallpaper remover, 4" brushes and/or a squeeze bottle, a 
spatula/scraper, and, if you're feeling professional, a perforator.

you just slop the w.p. remover on the wall (preforate first) and start 
scraping - comes off easy - a satisfying type of work because its hard 
to screw up.  

Why do you need to do this? have you considered taking it off first?

    I agree with Jeff, DONT PAINT OVER WALLPAPER!!  It can never be
    removed and future owners will curse you forever.
    
    					I've got three rooms of the
    					stuff

                                              =Ralph=     

    Think about this first before you decide to paint over it.  Do you
    have access to a propane wallpaper remover.  Thats what you will
    need if you ever decide to get the paper off.  Also, what do you
    think the walls will look like if for some reason the paper decide
    to lift in certain areas after you have applied paint over it. You
    would then have blotches which makes the room look even worse.
    
    	Seams,  don't forget that unless you sand the seams down real
    good they are going to show.  Another thing to watch out for is,
    that the paper may seem to be stuck on the walls real good now but
    once you apply that paint and the paper gets wet from it, the paper
    could lift from the walls.
    
    	Listen to what Jeff has to say,  TAKE the PAPER off and you
    will be much happier.  The walls may be a little rough, but a little
    joint compound can do wonders.
    
    mark

    Absolutely, take it off.  It's a little messy, but it certainly
    isn't hard to do and you will get:
    	1) a better paint job
    	2) no problems of wanting to take the paper off later and having
    	   REAL problems doing it.  Taking off paper that has been painted
    	   over is absolutely horrendous.  On a scale of aggravation
       	   of 1 to 10, taking off wallpaper rates about a 2.  Taking off 
    	   paper that has been painted over rates about a 17.
    
    You can rent a wallpaper steamer, or a friend of mine claims that
    a mixture of warm water, a good squirt of detergent, and "enough
    ammonia so it's obnoxious", applied to the paper, will work just
    about as well.  

    re: .8
    
    Linda,
    
    Perhaps you should read notes 525, 216 and 695.  They have a lot
    of the pros and cons, and suggested methods for each.  Good luck.
    
    Elaine

    I knew the consensus was going to be YUK! Not to paint over wallpaper.
    I'm not interested in learning how to wallpaper. Thank you for pointing
    me to those other notes, they were very useful.
    
    Now my question is, if I remove the wallpaper and do a good job
    not to ruin the surface of plaster or sheetrock behind the wallpaper,
    what is involved with preparing the wall to be painted?
    
    I realize that I will have to prime it first. I was thinking of
    trying a chemical solution  (provided it's not too hazerdous)
    to remove the paper. Will that remove all the glue and I'll just
    probably have a little sanding to do?

    Thanks, Linda
    

    First of all, I don't think the chemical is anything hazardous.
    In fact I'm not sure it's even a chemical.  Anyway, the way I do
    it is to make a pass to take the paper off, then make a pass on
    the part i just did, wetting it and scraping the extra softened
    glue with the putty knife, and wiping it with a rag.  In most places
    this in enough.  In some places the sizing is left, so I go back
    over the wall with soapy water and one of those green no-scratch
    pot scrubbers (otherwise known as "green scrubbies").  That seems
    to leave the wall clean.  Then you just have to patch any holes
    and sand any rough spots.  At this point, you may not have to be
    too picky if you're covering the wall with shelves.
    
    By the way, if the paper that's up there is strippable, you don't
    even need the water, but just have to peel the corners and let her
    rip!
    
    Good luck.
    
    Elaine
    

RE: .14

     When we moved into our house four years ago every single room
     except one (7 rooms) had been wallpapered with flair squares, 
     (12" square adhesive backed wallpaper) we ripped these off to
     find perfectly good and aesthetically nice wallpaper underneath
     except of course for the damage caused by the flair squares.
     We then removed the wallpaper from all these rooms the following
     way, you don't need any fancy chemicals:

	o Cover the floors well around the perimeter of the room with
	newspaper, several layers.  

	o Mix up a bucket of moderately hot water, as hot as you can 
	stand it because it will cool some.  Add to this white vinegar 
	about 1 pint to two gallons if I remember correctly.  

	o Sponge this onto the wallpaper allowing it to soak in some 
	then rewet lightly.  

	o Have at it with a 3" chisel edge scraper.  Though the chisel 
	edge sounds like it will be devastating to your walls it works 
	best because it is thicker and thereby stiffer and the leading 
	edge is actually thicker than a regular scraper so it won't dig 
	up your walls as much.  

	o You might of course need a thin blade scraper for
	stubborn spots but stay with the 3" variety, more surface area
	means it is less likely to gouge the wall.

     We did this with 7 rooms and had relatively little patching to
     do because of the scraping.  We had all paper type wallpaper to
     remove except in the kitchen.

RE: .15

>>    if the paper that's up there is strippable >>vinyl or cloth backed<<, 
>>    you don't even need the water, but just have to peel the corners 
>>    and let her rip!

	We had cloth backed in the kitchen and it was much easier to deal
	with.  We still used the vinegar solution to remove the paste/sizing
	though.    
							Good Luck Randy

    I have a question about finishing wood.  I have in the past used
    tung oil, polyurethane, or waterlox finishes depending on the project
    and type of finish desired.  Someone recently told me that he finished
    some oak woodwork in his kitchen by using 2 or 3 coats of tung oil
    and then a layer of polyurethane over that.  Has anyone else ever
    done this?  Sounds like an interesting idea.  I imagine the advantage
    is that the tung oil would soak into the wood so that the polyurethane
    final coat won't be absorbed as much, but you won't have to sand/steel
    wool between coats like you would if you were using several coats
    of poly alone.  
    
    I'll be finishing some new interior doors soon and wonder if this
    might not be worth trying. 

      You may want to direct this to the TOOLS conference as there are
    a lot of woodworkers there.  KP7 to select.
    
    -Jim
    

    I bought some "Homer Formby's" (or whatever his name is) Tung Oil
    a while back.  Reading the label, I noticed that it is a mixture
    of some kind of oil and polyurethane.  Is this always the case,
    or does this fall into the category of "Tung Oil-like substances"?
    
    -joet

    I have used that Formby's tung oil (gloss finish) and it is different
    than other tung oils I've used.  It actually seems to give a harder
    finish due to the polyurethane added.  I used it on an old oak wardrobe
    that I stripped and refinished.  I have been very pleased with
    the results.  I used 3 coats and used steel wool between coats.
    
    Now, can someone answer my original question?
    

    A quick tip in testing for oil or latex.  Take a cotton swab and
    dip it in alcohol.  Rub against paint.  If the paint comes off you
    have latex paint otherwise you have oil.
    
    Gary

>        Now, can someone answer my original question?

    Why do you want to do this?  Is it so that you don't have to sand
    the poly?  You will still have to sand because of
    the bubbles in the poly.  Polyurethane is going to leave a rough
    finish until sanded even if you use tung oil first.  Do you really
    think it's less work to apply tung oil than to sand the polyurethane?
    
    If I were you, I'd try it on a sample of wood first.  That's probably
    the best way to answer your question.
    
        Personally, I like just tung oil on solid wood doors.

Hi,

I want to paint my kitchen and need some advice/information.  The ceiling
and walls above the wainscoting need painting.  The walls are covered with
wallpaper, but not the vinyl kind.

Can I paint over the paper, or do I absolutely have to strip it first?

Also, how should I go about finding some one reasonable and reliable to
do the job (I live in Medford, ma)?  What kinds of things should I ask when
talking to a prospective painter?  What kinds of things do I need to tell
them about the job?

Thanks,
Fern

    Please, please, please look at note 1111.*.  Most of these questions
    have been asked and answered (some very recently).  Don't mean to
    sound nasty, but there are only so many ways to say...
    
    		"DON'T PAINT OVER WALLPAPER!"

    Maybe someone out there can recommend a painter though.

    Note 1199.8 etc.
    

    Also see 1199.8 re: painting over wallpaper.
    

    I recently stripped several rooms using a solution called "DFOR"
    and a one gallon spray bottle (purchased at a local CVS).  You
    literally spray it on, wait ten seconds and pull off sheets of paper.
    The more you spray on, the easier it is to remove.  Now comes the
    hard part, that of refinishing the walls and repainting/wallpapering...
    
    Speaking of which, has anyone had any luck painting over horse hair
    plaster?  If so, any special preparation other than spackle and
    a primer?  Any trouble with the walls cracking withing one or two
    years?  Any walls more likely to crack than others?
    
    Does anyone recommend Duron paint?  Anything better?  Best place
    to buy in the Maynard, Concord or Bedford area?
    
    Thanks for your help, love this file...

    	Did you get the solution or the bottle at CVS and if not the
    DFOR then where ?
    
    	-Steve-
    

    Anyone know of tinted or tintable oil-base primers?  I'm painting
    dark gray over a white house, and using a white primer doesn't
    help coverage any.
    
    				George

    I picked the DFOR up at Moe Blacks in Waltham.  It costs about $4.00
    for a quart which you then dilute 8 to 1.  Do not disregard the
    warning about contact with the skin, it start to burn after a while.
    That is one reason by the gallon spray bottle works so well.

Back to the PAINTING issue that this note started out as...

What do I do with brand new wallboard?  I've taped and joint-compounded
the seams and I'm ready to paint.  It's in the basement, so I'm not too
concerned with final appearance.  Do I prime first, then paint?  If so,
any recommendations for $cheap$ primer and paint?  Again, I'm not 
concerned with an absolutely flawless finish, and I'm trying to get
away with 1 primer coat and 1 finish coat.

Thanks.
Chris

    There is special primer available for wallboard, both latex and an oil
    based versions. I bought mine at Spag's, I think it was less than $10 a
    gallon. I used two coats of the oil based before I wallpapered. It made
    an excellent base. 
    
    For painting, I would use one coat of the latex primer and then one
    coat of your finish paint (assuming it's latex also). 
    
    Charly 

    
    	You can just use a couple of coats of flat wall paint. Primer
    is not really needed and is not called for in the books that I have
    read on the subject.
    
    	-Steve-
    

    I am almost ready to paint the walls if my recently finished family
    room.  I will be using a light color (probably ivory) latex paint.
     My question is: Do I need to use any primer since I am painting
    over new drywall, or should I just plan on 2 coats of paint?
    If I do need a primer, what do you recommend?
    
    Thanks.

If it's really BRAND NEW drywall, you're supposed to use DRYWALL SEALER
on the stuff before you paint it. Generally, two coats.

Dennis

    re. new drywall
    I just finished my family room and I primed the whole thing with
    KILZ. Than I had the ceiling sprayed and I finish coated the walls
    with regular wall paint.
    
    btw KILZ covers everything, even pictures of rabbits drawn on the
    ceiling! (don't ask).
    
    Also shop around for a good price. It ranges from $18 down to $7.95
    a gal. 
    
    Jim

    The walls that I am asking about have virgin sheet rock.  It was
    just hung this summer. Is the KILZ recommended in .2 the same as
    the sheetrock sealer recommended in .1.  Or are these 2 different
    recommendations? 

	You should prime new drywall before applying paint.

	Sealer or primer, they should both do the same thing.
	It will seal the drywall to moisture and does a good
	job hiding joint tape under the paint.

	after the primer drys, you'll find you will use much
	less wall paint...maybe half to 1/3 as much to cover
	the same surface area. 

	be careful to get white based primer. i picked up beige
	primer from sears and foolishly used it. it threw the
	wall paint off by a shade or two from intended.

	bob

    My house is 100 year old colonial, and it appears that most or all
    of the walls have always been wallpapered; never painted.
    
    I'm now in the process of removing the paper from a room that I
    would like to paint rather than re-paper.  My question is, because
    I'm dealing 100 year old horse-hair plaster walls, is there anything
    special/different that I need to apply to the walls prior to paintning
    them?  Or should I just go ahead paint?  Also, is latex OK to use
    on this type of wall?
    
    Thanks!
    
    Ian

There is really nothing special that you must do before painting 
plaster of this kind other than cleaning all of the wallpaper glue
size off with Tri-Sodium Phosphate solution.  Once that has been done, 
the walls should the rinsed clean with water.

Don't let the TSP solution get on any woodwork with a paint or natural 
finish that you wish to save.  If you will be repainting the woodwork 
then this is not a problem.

Prime the walls with an alkyd primer; latex primer may be alright 
also,  but you should check with a couple of reputable paint stores 
to verify.

    I've done this a couple of times, and never had any problem with
    just jusing a couple coats of interior latex.  WHether I'll have
    problems with peeling paint 20 years from now I don't know, but
    it's been up for at least 10 with no problem.  Whether this is
    the *right* way to do it or not I don't know, but it seems to work
    okay for me.
    As mentioned, wash off the wallpaper paste first, and you may want
    to go over the walls and knock off any little nubs of plaster, and 
    use joint compound or spackle to fill the holes and rough spots.
    I didn't worry too much about getting the walls perfectly smooth;
    putting on the paint fills in minor roughness, and the remaining
    roughness adds just a bit of texture and "character" to the surface
    that I personally think is appropriate for an old house.

    The walls of our new addition have just been plastered. What type
    of Primer/or Sizing do I use (Latex base preferred)? Also, what
    do I use to patch up the gouges left by the subsequent carpentry
    work?
    
    			Art

     One coat of a good grade of Flat Latex wall paint will be sufficient
    to enable you to paper over it. As for wall sizing; any hardware
    store will have it. Just apply it as per instructions before you
    paper.
    
    					Kenny

    To patch up the gouges use SPACKLE. It comes pre-mixed or in powder
    form. The powder form is much cheaper -as much as 3 or 4 to 1 
    and has the advantage that you can mix exactly how much you need.
    The pre-mixed kind -as i understand it- can not be used again after
    the can has been opened. It is trivial to mix, the instruction on
    the container will tell you how. It is available in practically
    any hardware store -not to mention S**gs of course)
    
    
    				herb

>    The pre-mixed kind -as i understand it- can not be used again after
>   the can has been opened. 

I've been using the same can for years.  However, someone showed me one good
thing about the mix-it-yourself kind that I find quite appealing.  It dries much
quicker.

As for price, that's really a no-op since for a buck or two you can get enough
ready mix to last through YEARS of small patching jobs.

-mark

I have some stuff my father-in-law swears by, it's called Durham's Wood Putty
and he uses for virtually everything (including plastering!).  The big benefit
with this stuff are it's waterproor, indoor/outdoor, paintable and won't shrink.
When dry, it looks just like the stuff that they use to smooth out knotholes in
sanded plywood.  I haven't had too much experience myself with it, but for the 
little interior spackling I've done with it, it works quite well.

-mark

    re: .4
    
    I believe what you are referring to is Durham's WATER Putty.  You
    mix the powder with water and it dries hard as a rock.  It is an
    excellent product.

    I was in the paint dept of Sommerville Lumber yesterday and I asked
    the clerk about priming the walls. He said if I want to wallpaper,
    I must use an oil based primer on plaster walls instead of latex.
    I hope he is wrong; I don't want to deal with the cleanup of oil
    based paint. Anybody ever hear this before? Also, what brand of
    primer do you recommend?
    

    I put an addition on my house and had the walls plastered. The
    plasterers told me to prime the new plastered walls with oil based
    primer no matter if you paper or paint the walls. We did this and
    then painted with latex paint. The reason for priming is obvious
    but I do think that oil based primer seals much better. 
    
    When you use oil based paint use rollers that you throw away after
    use and use paint thinner to clean the pan. It's not that bad using
    oil base paint. A good primer coat is very important.
    

    
    I also vote for oil base primers. They seem to cover and stick better.
    You should wait 30 days or so before you paint so that the plaster
    can cure.
    
    Also in addition the good answer in -1. I line my roller pan with
    aluminum foil. You usually need the extra wide roll to cover in
    1 piece. Then cleanup is as simple as folding it up and throwing
    the old foil away. I love the $.99 rollers that are disposable as
    well.
    
    JMB
    

    Re.  .6
    
    I used ALKYD (sp???) by Benj. Moore.  Easy to use and dries fast
    so it doesn't smell too much. 

 Over the years I have put up paper over old plaster, new plaster, old
 plasterboard and new plasterboard.  I have also tried all manner of 
 priming and sizing combinations.  In my experience IT DOESN'T REALLY
 MATTER !   You can prime with _any_ sort of paint; you can just slap
 the size straight on.  As long as you don't skimp it doesn't matter.
 These days I just use size without any priming.  

 The end cost is about the same whichever way you do it after you have 
 balanced out material quantity versus quality.

Henry Gillard - TSC Sydney

    I'd agree with .10; it doesn't really matter much.  The important
    thing is to seal the plaster so it doesn't suck all the water out
    of the paste when you put the paper up.  You can do that either
    with paint (oil or latex), or with sizing; I don't think you need both.

    Ditto on .10 and .11. And the 30-day wait mentioned in a previous
    reply seems to have gone the way of lathe-and-horsehair-plaster.
    My walls were skim-coated, then painted 3 days later - no problems.

    we just used a 'paint' called BIN on some old walls and over wallpaper.
    is a white shellac type primer and seals ANYTHING.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    I have two primer questions:
    
       1)  What's the difference between alcohol-based primers (like
           B-I-N) and naptha-based primers (like KILZ)?  Is there any
           advantage to using one or the other?
    
       2)  I have kinda beige paint on the walls, but I've patched and
           primed a lot of cracks and nail holes.  We're going to put
           up a much lighter off-white paint.  Should I prime over all
           the old paint, or just use two coats of the paint?  (hopefully
           two will hide it).  The old paint color is about as dark as the
           background on your badge, just somewhat more red.
    
                    --tom

I had to cover a steel flue that someone had painted (yuk) red, and
some other 'dark' colors on a pegboard.  Kilz didn't cover and took a 
week to dry (i.e., stunk for a week), BIN dried quickly and did the 
job.

    Let me second the BIN vs. Kilz.
    
    When I went back to the local hardware emporium for yet another
    gallon of BIN, they were all out and said 'Kilz is the same'!
    
    It sure didn't:
    
    	smell
    
    	act
    
    	work
    
    the same or as well.
    
    	-Barry-
    

I guess for every issue there's at least 2 opinions.  I've used KILZ and love
it since it COMPLETELY dries in 1/2 hour and can be painted over immediately.

I'm confused over .-2 which said he had to wait a full week before painting.

-mark

    re: .5 (2)
    
    Tom,
    
    I had the same situation last summer.  I just painted two coats,
    and it covered well.
    
    Just be sure you wash it well with TSP first.
    
    Elaine
    

                          Oil??
    I have just resheetrocked my entire bathroom and am preparing to
    wallpaper.  I have been told by some that It has to be painted with
    an oil base paint and by some others that It doesn't matter whether
    it's oil or latex but that latex with provide a smoother finish
    for sizing.  I'm confused. What do the DYI'ers out in note land
    say???
    
    Tom..

i think the idea is to get some paint on there to keep the paste from 
soaking into the cardboard on the sheetrock.  two benifits: one, it makes 
the application of the paper easier. two, it makes the removal later easier.
i used a latex interior primer. don't go too cheap, they're a waste of time 
and money. i think smoother is better. i also pasted the walls (sizing) 
since i was using prepasted paper - it wasn't enough.  paste even prepasted 
paper.

now if being in the bathroom makes a difference....then forget everything i 
said.

craig

    GO FOR A HIGH QUALITY OILBASED.  IT WILL NOT ALLOW MOISTURE TO
    PENETRATE INTO THE SHEETROCK AS READILY AS LATEX.  IF FACT, SINCE
    YOU ARE IN THE BATHROOM,  I WOULD GIVE IT AT LEAST 2 COATS. MAYBE
    THREE.  

      Even if you use a vinyl or otherwise waterproof paper, you need
    at least one coat of paint over the sheetrock so that you can remove
    the paper at a later date. Sheetrock is only paper on the outside.
    Imagine you are basicly glueing paper to paper. When you go to strip
    off the paper at a later date, the water used to soften the paste
    will also soften the sheetrock. Some of the outer layer of sheetrock
    will probably come off with the wallpaper. Priming the sheetrock
    also gives a much better surface to paper over since the moisture
    in the paste won't be sucked up by the sheetrock. This will give
    you the needed time to position the paper properly. I would use
    an oil-based primer (there are primers specifically made for this
    purpose) it will give a harder surface than latex which will stand
    up to the stripping knife later.
    
    					Kenny

    
    I also like using oil based primer than latex because the oil soaks
    in and protects what you are priming much better than latex. This
    is especially true with high moisture areas. I know, you're gonna
    say latex cleans up easier. I think that oil based paint cleans
    up just as easy with the right cleaner and the better "performance"
    of oil base makes it worth it. 
    
    Bob
    

...You'd have found note 1599 - titled "Primer for sheetrock"

Paul

    There is a product out called Shieldz Primer. You can get it at your local
    paint/wallpaper store. There is another product called BIN, which
    I guess does the same thing. I just finished doing my kitchen and
    dining room with Shieldz. It goes on with a roller or brush. You
    can use it on new walls, old walls, or right over old wallpaper.
    You don't have to size the walls after applying. I believe you
    can wallpaper in 2 hours after applying. One plastic (.5 gallon)
    goes a long way.
    Rick L.
    
    
    
    
      

    
    Take it from one who has been stripping wall-paper off unpainted
    sheetrock - please, please, *please*, paint it before papering!
    
    I would absolutely go with oil based primer (probably enamel),
    since you are talking about a bathroom.  Latex can mildew, and it
    can also allow water vapor to pass through it, soaking the insulation.
    Also, although you don't have to use sizing, it makes application
    *and* removal easier, so I would do it (it's cheap and pretty easy).
    
    

    	If your putting primer on new sheet rock don't be suprised
    if it soaks it up pretty fast. I used one coat on the surfaces
    I planned to texture and paint and two coats where I planned
    to paper. The sizing was put on with an eight inch paste brush
    so that went real quick.
    
    BTW. Used latex primer, but here in CO. moisture isn't the quit
    the problem it is back there.         

    We used BIN - an alcohol/shellac based primer.  Have had much better
    experience with it than with KILL-Z.
    
    One (or 2 coats if you want to) of BIN and then a coat of semi-gloss
    latex would do the trick.
    
    If you plan on re-papering, there was a rubber cement like sizing
    that I used once that would make it easier to strip when decorating
    tastes change.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    I just started prepping my diningroom walls for painting last night
    and had a problem. The walls were covered with removable, vinyl
    wallpaper which easily peeled off. I bought a solution from the
    paint store that was "supposed" to remove the sizing. All it did
    was to moisten it and spread it around. I used a sponge at first and 
    then switched to a stiff bristled brush. Then I started scraping with
    a putty knife to no avail. 
                                                  
    How can I get this crap off? I'm considering buying a sander attachment
    for my electric drill and sanding the walls. Any comments on this?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

    re: .24
    
    DON'T DO IT THAT WAY!!  You may have to sand the walls, I don't
    know about that, but, don't use a circular sander on a drill to
    do it. It is almost impossible to avoid gouging the wall (I assume
    it's plaster and not wall board.) and leaving circular scratches
    that will show through the paint.
    
    Alan

    It is plaster. I had a feeling there might be a danger with sanding
    with a drill. 
    
    Any brilliant ideas out there?
    
    Mike

	Try a palm sander such as the small Makita, and plan to make a mess.
	Seal off the room and open the windows.  Unfortunately, no matter how 
	well you seal the room white dust will be all over the house.

The way I remove glue/sizing is to wash the wall with a vinegar/water solution.
Then I simply scrape off the goo with a wide blade jointing knife.  It may take
several passes, but it ALWAYS works.

-mark

    re .28

    we recently stripped four layers of wallpaper off our dining room.
    Cleaning up with vinegar/water did the trick.    
    
    
			herb

    What proportion of water to vinegar do you use?  How bad is the
    smell?

    Perhaps I should have made a stronger solution. The directions on
    the bottle said to add the bottle's contents to 2� gallons of warm
    water. Do y'all think less water would be more helpful?
    
    Mike

	Okay, I was a good boy and checked the notes which might be applicable,
	but did not find my particular problem mentioned.

	We just had new kitchen cabinets, counters, and soffit installed by
	a contractor. Before the contractor showed up to start, we gutted
	the kitchen to the bare walls and tore up the floor. The walls were
	covered with linoleum from the floor to a height of about 4� feet.
	Where the counter was located, the wall covering extended from the
	countertop (this stuff was the backsplash) up to the bottom of the
	cabinets.

	It was a royal pain to tear this stuff off! What was left behind is
	the hardened dark brown adhesive that held the stuff up. We want to
	paint but are unsure as to how we should prepare the walls.

	In addition to covering, replacing, or disintegrating the walls with
	this stuff on it, there are several outlets over the counter that
	must be moved or added.

	So far, I've tried sanding (too messy and slow), solvents (no effect
	on the adhesive), and scraping (gouged the sheetrock). As I see it,
	I have the following options:

		Keep sanding. This will probably take at least 2 weeks at 2-4
		hours per day.

		Put up �" sheetrock (blue board?) from floor to ceiling on
		all the walls.

		Remove the diseased portions of the wall and replace it with
		sheetrock/blue board.

		Skim coat the diseased portion and "creatively" hide the seam.

	In hindsight (this is my first house), I think I should have torn down
	the sheetrock, done the wiring, hung new sheetrock, and prepared it
	for paint *before* the cabinets were installed. Too late now.

	I want to do this right, but as usually happens, we are way over 
	budget. I would prefer to do the work, but from all the previous notes
	I've read, I will probably need to call in a professional. FWIW, I've
	never done any plastering before.

	Summary: What do you folks suggest I do? What would you do if it were
	your home? And a couple of questions:

		How can I tell if the kitchen walls are sheetrock or blue
		board?

		I added a wall switch to a wall in the kitchen and in cutting
		the hole, I encountered perforated metal lath. What is the 
		purpose of this stuff?

	Any and all help gratefully accepted!

Thanks,

	Larry

    I had this similar situation, except with paneling.  Removing the
    paneling left large blobs of adhesive.  (Not to mention the crayons
    and magic marker under the wallpaper.)  The only things I know of
    at the time were to skim coat all the walls, or put up new paneling.
    I wound up installing new paneling.  In retrospect, I probably would
    should have torn out the sheetrock, and installed new sheetrock.
    It probably would have cost about the same.
    
    - Mark

    This sounds similar to what I just went through minus the cabinet
    installation. I removed plastic tile from my kitchen walls and was
    left with the glue on the walls. I used a house paint scraper to
    scrap the glue off, which left the walls a little ruff. I then took
    joint compound and went over the walls (3 coats very thin and light
    sanding between coats). The walls came out smooth enough to wallpaper
    over and some were smooth enough to paint over. The key here is
    to take your time and pickup all the extra compound off the walls
    to minimize your sanding.
    		What you got making up the walls sounds like.. 
    		- Wire Leth
    		- Wall board then
    		- Plaster   
                                 
    I found that one house scraper worked better then another. Give
    me a call if you want and I can go into greater detail.
                                                              
    Rick L. DTN 223-6548

    Do you have some sort of wallboard *over* plaster, as suggested
    in .2, or just plaster on wire lath?  It sounds to me as though
    you have real honest-to-gosh plaster on wire lath.  When you
    cut through the wall for the outlet, did you hit any sort of paper
    just at or below the surface?  If not, you've got straight plaster.
    If it is straight plaster, you can probably use a scraper to take
    off the goop, and don't worry too much if you gouge into the wall
    a little.  After you've gotten the goop off, you can either skim
    it over with joint compound, as suggested, or hire a plasterer to
    come and smooth it out.  
    Good luck.  Some twit artistically glued plywood paneling (the kind
    which Dave Barry described as, "if you show it to 100 people they
    will all say, 'I don't know what it is, but it's not wood'") to
    my dining room walls as wainscoting.  I ended up replacing three
    whole walls and doing a lot of patching on the fourth.

    re: removing panel adhesive
    
    I had good luck in my living room using a heat gun and a putty knife.
    Heat a spot until it softens some and scrape it off.  Open all the
    windows and wear a mask, the fumes are awful!  
    
    After removing the adhesive, we just sanded the walls and painted
    with no problems.
    
    Tim
    

	Thanks for the replies so far!

Re: .3

	I checked over the weekend. There is a 1/8" plaster skim coat
	on a grey cement like material. I didn't see any paper.

Re: .4

	How long did it take you to do your living room? How many sq. ft.?

Thanks,

	Larry

    Our house has those spray-on textured cielings (looks like stucco),
    and, since they're about 7 years old and beginning to "yellow,"
    we'd like to paint them.  I first tried a little corner "just in 
    case."  Good move.  Problem is, Latex paint, applied with a brush,
    seems to dissolve the cieling's texture and make it look awful.
    
    Is there a way to paint these cielings without dissolving them,
    or do we have to have new cielings sprayed on?  Would we be better
    off hiring a plasterer to put in "real" cielings?

    	- Tony -
    

    I am in the process of repainting the texture ceiling at one of
    the room.  It is a pain to paint the texture ceiling.  I use
    the texture paint and I don't have any problem of dissolve the
    ceiling's texture.  The problem I have is the texture roller
    don't work at all and it is a very very slow process work.  It took
    me 3 hrs to paint half of the ceiling which is about 5' x 10'.
    
    I am wonder the airless spray gun would work on texture paint, because
    I am going to doing all the ceiling on my house, otherwise it will
    take me forever.  It you can afford the money, I would suggest to
    hire someone to do the job and it is fast, all you have to do is
    to tape some newspaper on the wall to protect the wall and put
    plastic on the floor.  It will take them only an hour or so to finish
    the whole house...
    

I believe a texture roller is for APPLYING texture paint.  When we had 
our house done (painter (M. Pilotte) listed in the contractors
recommendations) he painted over textured ceilings using (I believe) a
normal roller and oil-based Touraine triple-white paint (the whitest
white he knows of). They came out greatm in only 1 coat. 

    I'd say you have real 3-coat plaster; the 1/8" skim is just the
    finish coat; the gray stuff is the "scratch" coat and the "brown"
    coat (or vice-versa), which back when they used metal lath, built
    up a base for the finish coat; nowadays they use blueboard instead.
    I would guess (but it's just a guess) that if you gouge it a little
    getting the adhesive off, a plasterer could fix up the wall without
    too much of a problem.
    Re: getting off the adhesive: maybe a wallpaper steamer would soften
    it up enough so you could scrape it???
    

    A deeply napped roller (not the texture-paint type, just thick and
    fluffy) might help.

	Well, I've decided to go the route that .2 took; scrape the walls
	with a paint scraper and then skim coat.

	I tried several types of solvents in the hope that it would soften
	the old adhesive and make my job easier, but nothing worked. Stryp-Eze
	did however eat some holes in my brand new linoleum tile floor where
	I accidently spilled some :-(

Thanks for the help,

	Larry

    The guy who just finished painting the exterior of our house told
    us to sand the old glue off the walls with 80 grid sandpaper, then
    go over it lightly with 100 grid paper. This worked like a charm!
    It was more work than I'd cared to do, but it did work nicely.
    
    Mike

Re: .-1

	I tried sanding with 80 grit and an orbital sander. It worked, albeit
	slowly, but the amount of dust (and noise) was intolerable. After
	about 10 minutes of sanding, I had removed about a 10" diameter circle
	of adhesive. There was so much dust in the air, it looked like fog
	had rolled in.


Larry

    I am planning on (interior) painting over some latex-based joint
    compound. The joint compound manufacturer recommends using a
    latex-based primer over it, but I would prefer to finish with a
    coat of oil based paint.  
    
     Would it be reasonable to prime the joint compound with an 
    alcohol-based sealer, like BIN, and then go over that with oil paint?
    Is there another kind of primer that would be the best between the 
    joint compound and the oil paint?
    
    Mark

    We're going to paint two bedrooms in a condo before we move in,
    and we've never done this before.  What should we do to get ready?
    We're painting the same color (white).  Do we just need to wash
    them off with water, or should we use something strong like ammonia?
    Can we just start painting then?
    
    Thanks
    Beryl

    Best thing I've found is Spic-n-Span.  Wash the walls with that,
    go over them again with plain water to rinse, let dry, and paint.  
    Incidently, I've found that a rag (an old T-shirt, for example) works
    infinitely better than a sponge for this job.
    
    You'll need dropcloths; plastic is cheap, but doesn't cooperate
    about lying flat and staying put as well as cloth does.  Plastic
    is okay though.  Start with the ceiling and work down to the
    baseboards. You'll wonder what to do at the ceiling/wall junction.
    Well, maybe you won't because it's the same color in your case,
    I assume, but if you ever are faced with different colors on walls
    and ceiling, you want the wall color to ever-so-slightly extend
    onto the ceiling, if there is going to be an overlap.  To see that
    overlap you have to lie down on the floor a couple feet from the
    wall and look up.  If the ceiling color overlaps on the wall,
    however, you see it easily just standing or sitting in the room.
    
    You'll need a brush to do edges and stuff, and a roller (about 3/8"
    nap, probably) for the main areas.  Do things right and take off
    outlet and switch covers and light fixtures.  After struggling to
    wash out rollers, I've finally declared them to be disposable; at
    a couple of bucks apiece, it's just not worth it, not to mention
    the potential problems of putting all that paint into a septic
    system.  If you want to stop for a while, you can wrap a roller
    in saran wrap or put it in a plastic bag, and it will keep okay
    for at least a day or so.

    Thanks; I'll let you know how it goes
    
    Beryl

    Does anyone have any experience with a paint roller that uses a
    hollow handle to store paint?  Sears has one on sale this week.
    It apparently can be filled directly from a can so you don't even
    need a roller pan.
    
    We have 4 new bedrooms  and 2 baths to paint in our addition and
    I looking for a good labor saving device for my wife (Am I a prince
    or what?  8-) ).
    
    Any comments on the power rollers (Wagner, et al) would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

    
    	Any experiences with high pressure airless sprayers ?  
    I'm thinking of the 2500 psi or so ones.
    
    	I KNOW they are potentially dangerous, can inject paint through
    the skin, etc., and quite expensive, starting at ~$350.  They DO
    put out a lot of paint very quickly and due to the pressure/atomization
    there is virtually no spray drift, i.e. its already dry if it bounces
    off.  Also the pressure is high enough to inject stain INTO the
    wood instead of just leaving on the surface to soak in, so it SHOULD
    do a better job.

    	Reg
    
    { knowing that amputation is often the only treatment for paint
    injection }

    I am about to paint the inside of my house.
    
    The walls are blue board with a skim coat of plaster.
    
    Should I use a primer or multiple coats of paint for the walls?
    
    Is latex preferred thoughout the house or is the bathrooms different?
    
    How about the ceilings?
    
    
    

    I would never bother with any of the "fancy" rollers to paint anything.
    My father was a painting contractor (when he wasn't a cabinet maker)
    and through all of the summers that I worked for him we just used
    regular rollers. We never used paint trays though, always used a
    bucket with a metal screen to remove the extra paint from the roller.
    Doing things this way is inexpensive, quick and easy.
    
    For doing large spray jobs a high pressure airless spray rig is
    unbeatable. They are dangerous, but they work quickly and with a
    little practice you can do a pretty good job. Overspray is still
    a problem however. "Spray drift" is also a problem, but since you
    usually cover everything that you aren't painting when you spray,
    this is not a large problem.
    
    For woodworking I would use an air spray gun (non-airless?). Stain
    is not "injected" into wood, it does just get placed on top and
    must soak in. An air-gun is unbeatable for spraying lacquer.
    
    Usually the airless sprayers use an air supply to power the pump,
    so getting an airless sprayer means getting a compressor. You get
    two for the price of one and a fraction (for the air-gun).
    
    	Marty Sasaki

    
    Re: .37
    
    	After that list of side-effects; paint being injected into the
    skin leading to possible amputations and high cost, you are still
    considering that option?  If I was ever considering one (which I
    never have and now will not ever), your note would certainly make
    me think again!
    
    							-craig

    
    I am about to paint the inside of my house.
    
    The walls are blue board with a skim coat of plaster.
    
    Should I use a primer or multiple coats of paint for the walls?
    
    Is latex preferred thoughout the house or is the bathrooms different?
    
    How about the ceilings?
    
    
    
    

    I just used 2 coats of semigloss latex on my skimcoat plaster; seems
    to be fine.  Nothing special on the ceiling.  If the plaster in
    the bathroom is new, I'd use latex in there too.  I'd worry about
    oilbase only if the surface has been previously painted with oilbase.

    
    I think this topic has been discussed over and over again.
    Oil vs. Latex is sortof like Judaism vs. Christianity.
    
    Personally, I would used an oil-based primer, and then whatever
    you want.  And, use the odorless paint thinner.  For a bathroom,
    I would use oil-based semi for the top coat.  If you want to use
    oil for any of the top coats, you can use the same stuff as a primer,
    just thin it a little.
    
    By the way, if you don't have a plastic vapor barrier, I would
    definitely use the oil-based, as it acts as a weak vapor barrier.
    
    -tm
    

      -.1 is consistent with my understanding that an OIL base primer is
      best for a plaster susrface (including skim coated) while a  WATER
      base  is  better  for  straight sheetrock.  After the primer its a
      matter of choice.
      
      I'm  curios  to  here opinions and/or expericne on the question of
      whether an oil base  is  better  than  water  base  for  bathrooms
      (finish coat, that is).

I have a semi-related question. What is the difference between joint compound,
spackling putty paiste, and vynal spackling compound. They are priced in
that order and I assume that the latter does not return to mush when rewetted.

What's the real scoop?

>< Note 695.18 by BURDEN::MEIER "Steve Meier" >
>               -< Goop to mush on walls.. whats the difference? >-
>
>I have a semi-related question. What is the difference between joint compound,
>spackling putty paiste, and vynal spackling compound. They are priced in
>that order and I assume that the latter does not return to mush when rewetted.

      I've  been  told that JOINT COMPOUND and SPACKLING COMPOUND (which
      may or may not be the same as "spackling  putty  paste")  are  the
      same  thing; Joint Compound is packaged in larger sizes to provide
      the larger amounts needed for new sheetrock;  Spackling  Coumpound
      is  packaged  in  smaller  containers  for  smaller, patchin jobs.
      Larger size packages tend to cost less  on  a  per-unit-of-measure
      basis. 
      
      If the label says "vinyl", or whatever, it probably contains vinyl
      plastic.  This will cost more and may be better for filling  large
      cracks (less shrinkage) and or better adhearance around patches on
      old plaster/sheetrock.
      
      Find  a  good  hardware/building  supplies  dealer,  explain  your
      project and ask them whats best to use.

>      I've  been  told that JOINT COMPOUND and SPACKLING COMPOUND (which
>      may or may not be the same as "spackling  putty  paste")  are  the
>      same  thing; 

Not true, i'll try to explain, though I have a feeling those more 
expert may correct a few points...

Joint compound is wetter, has less body (I.e., can't fill large 
cracks), takes longer to dry, must be applied in more layers,
but is easier to use.  its also cheaper, and appears to be the choice 
of painters, etc.  its original use was to easily fill all the joints 
between pieces of sheetrock.

Spackle is a modern equivalent of 'plaster of paris' and can be used 
to fill larger areas.  Its drier, more bodied, easier to use, and can 
be used to fill holes, etc.  It can be painted almost immediately.

To elaborate on .1, one key thing about jointing compound is it SHRINKS!  This
means if you fill a hole today, it'll still be there tomorrow, hence the need
for multiple coats.  If you want to fill the hole today AND paint today, make
sure you get something that dries quickly and DOES NOT SHRINK.  At least one
product I know of that fits this is Durham Water Putty.

-mark

    The newer lightweight spackling compounds don't shrink.  Consumer
    Reports did a review of them some time ago (I think last summer
    or fall).  I wound up using Red Devil lightweight, and was amazed
    at how much easier it was to use than the old-style, heavy spackling
    pastes.  No shrinkage, no cracking, and if you thin the paste a
    little and apply it carefully, you'll have minimal sanding to do,
    if any.
    
    The downside is that it's expensive.
    
       Gary

    
    All I can say is that I've done a bit of drywall stuff over the
    past three years. The only thing I've done is cover the "mud"
    with a brush coat (no primer) and then two coats of Tourainne
    latex (oyster white's my favorite) and have had no problems.
    Some of this work has been done in the basement where there
    is some humidity.
    
    My personal experience tells me that it isn't necessary to prime.
    If you've got staining or some kind of discoloration, then you'll
    need to do something.
    
    Chip

    We are adding an addition that will encrease the size of our bedrooms,
    which are painted plaster and very bumpy. We had planned to put
    up blueboard in the addition and have the whole room skim-coated
    by a plasterer to smooth out the old parts.
    
    Our problem is that the plasterer we contacted told us that you
    can't skim-coat over painted plaster. This means we will have to
    gut the whole room!
    
    Surely there must be someone out there who knows of a product or
    method that we could treat the existing walls with that would eliminate
    this problem. We are under a time crunch since I am expecting my
    second child in a month!

	I just wallpapered my bathroom and I have a problem that maybe
	someone can help with.

	I used prepasted vinyl and did the sizing etc....

	There are a couple of areas that ended up not sticking to the
	wall.

	They dried (obviously) and due to the shrinking are now too short
	(gap at the seam) and have a buckle at the point where it stuck and
        where it didn't.

	How should I attempt to fix the problem areas...I would hate to
	have to rip it all off and start over.

	Will wetting the paper and repasting with regular paste work? 
	(I didn't use additional paste the first time) 

	Will soaking the effected areas allow the paper to stretch enough
	to reach the seam (that it was originally connected to).


			Thanks for any help

					John
        

I've heard of a chemical you can apply and skim coat over that.  How good it is
I don't know and maybe that's why the plasterer you contacted is shying away
from even suggesting it to you.

-mark

A question I had asked a couple of years ago may relate to your problem.

I've always used prepasted paper but ALWAYS put my own past on it.  The person
at the wallpaper store I go to had recommended using twice as must water when
mixing the paste since that in the paper absorbs a lot of water and it won't
stick properly if you mix according to the normal directions.

What always puzzled me is that if you apply paste you book the paper and let it
"relax" for about 5 minutes.  During this process I've noticed the paper 
actually grows about 1/4" wider!  What puzzled me was why is didn't shrink back
to normal while drying.  Furthermore, why DON'T you book prepasted paper when
simply soaking it?  AND how does this "expanding" property do while the wet 
paper is hanging on your wall?

Anyhow, applying this to .-1 tells me if you remove a strip of paper and then
use paste and book it for around 5 minutes it will indeed get wider.  The only
problem is it may get TOO wide!

-mark

    What about using a rotary sander or a rotary pad in an electric drill
    with a very coarse disk mounted ? You can get a 7" disk around 40-60
    grit that will make short work of removing the paint and roughing up
    the surface for the next layer of plaster. Of course, this assumes that
    the plasterer doesn't mind a rough surface to work on and you don't
    mind *lots* of plaster dust. Check with a plasterer and see what he
    thinks before trying it. 

Re: .23

Unfortunately you may have stretched the paper while smoothing it out, hung the 
next piece at the proper place and then had the paper regain its normal size 
leaving a gap. If this is the case, you may be in deep sneakers and have to pull
down the paper to the nearest edge/corner and rehang new stuff. I don't think 
you can stretch it and get it to stay stretched to cover the gap.

Paper will grow but vinyl will stretch. And not always in a uniform manner. I 
try to pick paper for this reason. Paper wallpaper hangs with less hassle.

    We recently had some internal painted brickwork plastered. The
    plasterer moaned like mad because he had to use a special kind of
    plaster which is very difficult to work with. I'm sorry I can't
    remember its name (the plaster, not the plasterer) and it was undercoat
    plaster rather than skim going on the paintwork in our case.
    
    I don't know what the problem is in plastering on top of painted
    plaster. If it is the reduced porosity - and hence reduced grip-
    then the special plaster may be the answer. If the concern is that
    the new plaster will lift the paint off the wall then you will have
    to do what .-1 suggests.
    
    On this latter point we have even had trouble papering over painted
    plaster where the paint is very old. Recent glues seem to be very
    powerful and lift the paint straight off. It looks bad where the
    paper joins. Our solution was to put up lining paper horizontally
    first so that even if some lifting occurs it isn't obvious. Any
    other ideas?
    
    Dick
    
    Best wishes for the new baby.

    
    This is what I have done to 3 painted rooms and has worked for me,
    but I'm not saying its the proper way, BUT IT WORKED and is still
    standing 6 yrs. later. I rough sand papered the entire walls, cutting
    thru the paint. Then I set a drill bit to about 1/8th of an inch
    and gave the wall he** with it. After completing that, I washed
    the walls down good with a DAMP!!! cloth. Then I put on joint compound
    as a skim coat. As I said it is still standing 6 yrs. later and
    2 changes of wall paper. (my wife got sick of it quickly, also myself)
    As I said, it may not be the professional way, but it has worked.
    Best of luck with the new room and the new arrival..

    Wye & Son Wood Working and Additions

re:-1

Sounds like a reasonable approach, but remember that jointing compound is quite
different than plaster.  I know I've used jointing compound directly over
painted surfaces as a spackle and have also had luck.  I'd never dare to to that
with plaster.

-mark

    How about putting up 3/8" plasterboard over the painted plaster
    and skim-coating over that?

    
    RE: .6
    
    Probably because of existing window, door and baseboard trim.

I don't think you can get 3/8" blueboard.

-mark

    
    I tried to fix it and it worked.  I simply took a sponge, wet down
    the back of the paper in loose areas (pulled the paper further away
    in some areas) then applied regular wallpaper paste to both the
    wall and paper (paper was vinyl coated wallpaper).
    
    After the paper was wet I could already feel that it was going to
    extend farther than it had when dried, in fact i got it to butt
    up against the next sheet.
    
    Obviously the normal hanging steps were used after applying the
    paste.                   
    
    

I am doing some wallpapering and have run into a discouraging problem with the
seams.  The paper has no distinct pattern, more of a vertical texture.  So, the 
problem with the seams is not getting them to match, in fact you cannot see the
actual seam standing 6" away and _looking_ for it.  The problem with them is
standing back and seeing a kind of ghost, about 1" - 1 1/2" wide.  I have
concluded that it's due to rolling them and squeezing the paste.  (Although
none was forced out during the rolling and I did not use much pressure.)

So, for the remaining seams, I won't roll them.  First question: will they be
OK if I don't?  I will be sure to sponge them well.  I have tried "tapping"
them with a smoothing brush, but even that is marginal for them showing!

The second and _real_ question:  can I do anything about the bad ones, other
than stripping and re-doing them?

It is a vinyl-coated, pre-pasted paper.  The walls were primed and sized.
I did not use any additional paste and booked each strip for 5 minutes. I used
a plastic smoothing tool and was very careful about bubbles (i.e., the paper
was "worked" quite a bit).

Is there any possibility that this problem is built into the paper?  That its
edges are different?  I.e., that it's not uniform?

I'll be talking to my supplier about this, but there is so much experience in
this file that I want to tap it too.  

Thanks-in-advance,
Bob

    Is the paper physically textured?  If so, it is possible that you
    are crushing the paper with the roller.  Switch to a sponge, and
    be as firm as possible without crushing the paper.  You can always
    touch up spots that lift with a tube of glue made for that purpose.
    
    Also, make sure the paper has dried thoroughly before jumping to
    any conclusions.  Dampness will affect the appearance of the paper.
    Given the humid weather we've been having, this may take more than
    a day.
    
       Gary

RE .27 ("ghosting" along seams):

.28 had it: it was uneven drying.  With an oil-based primer on the wall, vinyl
coating on the paper and damp weather, it takes a _long_ time to completely
dry.  On the order of 4 days, I'd say.

The vinyl surface was dry, of course, but the paper backing wasn't.  This
darkened it and that darkness showed through.  It dried faster at the seams
since moisture could (more) easily escape there.  So, I had light stripes at
the seams.

    Boy, I haven't been in this conference for awhile...
    
    
    Do any of you folks know how one does an egg shell finish on drywall?
    
    That is, what do they use to give the egg shell effect, and is the
    paint a special kind of paint?
    
    Jim

    
    Perhaps you need to explain what you are calling "the egg shell
    effect".
    
    							* MAC *

    I never saw it before I moved to Colorado....I guess it's not commonly
    called "egg shell".
    
    But, lemme try to explain it:
    
    Imagine a bunch of broken eggshells laying on a flat surface. If
    you painted over that surface, you'd get a finish that isn't smooth
    but isn't really textured like stucco. It looks and feels almost
    smooth, but the eggshells are underneath so it has kind of a tone
    on tone appearence.
    
    FWIW - you can't wallpaper over it because the paper will not look
    smooth against the wall but if you ran your hand over it, it would
    feel very close to smooth.
    
    I don't know if this helps. It really looks good when the walls
    are white. Kind of breaks it up and gives it a different look than
    simple paint. It really looks pretty nice. All the new homes that
    we looked at here have this type of finish...
    
    Jim

    The finish is quite popular in the North Central area also.  It
    is almost always found with sprayed ceilings.  The procedure is
    actually quite simple:
    
    	Mix up some very soupy joint cement.
    	Pour it into the equipment you use to spray the ceiling.
    	Point gun at wall and spray.
    
    The cement needs to be thick enough not to run, but thin enough
    to lay reasonably flat on the wall - you want a textured surface,
    not a rough surface.
    

The term "egg shell" is used to describe the gloss of a paint finish, and
is one step up from flat...

I think the scale goes something like:

   Flat
   Eggshell
   Semi-gloss
   Gloss
   High Gloss

and is ranked by reflectivity numbers from some type of gloss meter.

For details, see the current issue of "Consumer Reports."

Bob
 

    Common, Wardle, get the name straight!!11
    
    :*)
    
    Hi there, Jim.  next time I'm out to CXO you can show me what it
    looks like.  I don't recall ever seeing this finish.
    
    Lee

    re:  JoES  (Jim on Egg Shell)
    
    Jim, 1st you find something egg-shaped, like Joe Walton's head for
    instance, then........
    
    [smiley]
    
    Hawk

    Our new construction house is about to be stained. I need
    to know whether there is much difference in latex and oil
    based stains. THe painter said that latex won't "bleed through"
    or darken (we're going white), but I think if he does the job
    correctly, oil shouldn't do that either. I always like oil - 
    wouldn't use latex myself. Is there a disadvantage to using
    latex? When it comes time to re-stain, do we have to use 
    latex? (We have cedar clapboards, rough side out to hold the stain
    better.)
    THanks!
    

    re: .11
    
    In answer to your last question, we have Olympic oil-based stain on the
    existing house.  The Olympic directions state that latex is required
    for restaining, so that's what we're going to use for restaining. 
    We're going to use the oil-based stain, in the same color, 
    for the new garage, and pray that the match is adequate.  
    
       Gary

    Latex stain can PEEL! That's one big difference between Latex and
    oil stain. Also Latex stain is MORE likely to bleed through than
    oil stain, but in any case, knots should be shellacked FIRST to
    prevent bleeding which is virtually guaranteed there. Latex stain
    is like an oxymoron, it's almost exactly the same as watered-down
    Latex paint!
    
    					Kenny

    
    I second .13's recommendations.  I'd rather use an oil-based semi-gloss
    *paint* than a latex stain.  As for the knots, you can either shellac
    them as .13 suggests, or if you are going with a semi-transparent
    stain, I think the knot holes look nice.
    
    -tm
    

    ok, ok...I'm glad to see that some of you sports burnouts do something
    besides watch tv...ha ha
    
    Anyway, here's how they do it:
    
    They mix up some "stuff" that looks like spackle(sp?). It's called dry
    wall something or other. Anyway, they then spray it on the wall, wait a
    little while, and then basically scrape off the peaks. When they spray
    this stuff it looks like a bunch of warts on the wall (for lack of a
    better description). When they scrape off the peaks, it leaves a
    textured look on the wall and it's then painted. As someone mentioned a
    few replies back, eggshell is indeed the finish (as in gloss, semi
    gloss, etc..).
    
    Anyway, it's real messy, but real easy to do if you have the equipment.
    
    Jim

    I painted over new sheetrock a few weeks ago with two coats of
    Pratt & Lambert flat latex high-hiding wall paint, which is the
    same thing I painted the rest of the room with.  It worked fine.
    The paint was an offwhite over walls that were pale blue, grey, and
    the new sheetrock (you don't want to know how the room got into
    its original state.)
    

    The 'stuff' is drywall compound (aka "mud"), and the effect is referred
    to in the instruction sheet for my sprayer as "splatter".  Depending on
    the setting of the sprayer, you get either "light splatter" or "heavy
    splatter."  You spray, let it start to setup, then go over it with a
    10" drywall trowel, holding the trowel as  close as possible to being
    parallel with the wall.  Actually, I found it easier and more effective
    to use a thick piece of paper, which seemed to have enough rigidity to
    flatten down the tops, but not enough pressure to start dragging the
    mud along the wall.
    
    The mud is thinner out a little with water before applying - you need
    to mix it up well using a drill attachment (there's another discussion
    going on on this subject in this file).
    
    The sprayer is the hopper style you use for applying texture paints,
    using an air compressor.
    
    The whole process is real easy - most of the time is spent in setting
    up (taping plastic or tarps everywhere), and then cleaning up (removing
    said plastic, dropcloths).  Beware of the fact that this style of
    sprayer, unlike that used for regular paint, ALWAYS has air coming out
    of the nozzle (all the trigger does is start dropping the contents of
    the hopper into the air stream) - this means that the plastic you have
    up to protect the rest of the room needs to be pretty secure.  I ended
    up using a stapler because the air pressure was just enough to blast
    the tape off the wall.  
    
    It's a lot of fun (ha ha ha)
    -reed 

    
    
    	We just bought a new house. Unfortunately the painter the
    	contractor hired to paint the interior used the cheapest
    	flat paint available. Any little bump,dirty hand print etc.
    	is recorded on the wall and can't be washed off.
    
    	I want to repaint the interior of the house with washable 
    	paint. I think I've  seen advertisements occasionally for 
    	washable flat paint. My wife is partial to flat paint so I'd 
    	like to keep it that way if possible.
    
    	My questions to you are:
    
    		What are the brands of paint you've had best luck with ?
    		What's the difference between a satin and semi-gloss paint?
    		Are there interior oil base paints ? If so would they be
    		better than Latex ?
    		Should I buy the paint at a local dept. store or would a 
    		paint store be the best place ?
    
    
    						Mike
    						---- 

    I'm no expert...but from my limited experience, this is what I
    have seen...
    I used Sherwin Williams 10 year flat washable paint for most
    of my interior walls.  And to some extent it IS washable, as long
    as you don't use harsh detergent, too much water, rub too hard,
    or have a 'serious' stain.  I have been able to successfully wipe
    off hand prints, scuff marks and the like, but not real stains.
    (like coffee or coke spatters...) 
    So, for the last room i painted I used the satin...its not
    as shiny as semigloss, but not as matte as flat, i personally 
    don't like it, and if your wife really likes flat, she may not
    like it either.  I haven't tested its 'cleanability' yet, so can't
    comment, but have heard its better.  
    
    Maybe some other folks out there have better experiences with other
    brands...or more info on the satin/eggshell paints.
    
    deb
    

We've been painting the interior of our new house and have an 
all-to-current knowledge of finishes (as in, "wait and let me check my 
elbow").

Ceiling, flat, egg-shell, satin, pearl, semi-gloss, enamel are the
grades we have seen listed in ascending order of sheen. Ceiling is 
usually a very white white.

We've used flat for most of the walls, pearl or satin for woodwork, 
and will use semi-gloss for bathrooms. Kitchen is still under 
negotiation because the tradeoff is between finish, which we like 
flat, and need to clean. I have promised never to cook or wash dishes 
if it will reduce the need for semi-gloss in the kitchen. So far the 
offer has not received a response...

All of the paint has been Benjamin Moore latex, except some of the 
primer. After having used California and Sears in our last house, I'd 
never leave Benjamin Moore again. In my opinion, it is the best.

John H.

    COnsumer reports just did interior paints in a recent issue.  They said
    that there is no standard for the terms "flat, satin, eggshell,
    semi-gloss, gloss", so each company decides how they are going to use
    them.
    
    Caveat emptor.
    
    Elaine

I bought a new house 6 years ago, and discovered to my utter disgust
that the builder had "painted" it by rolling a single coat of finish
paint onto the bare skimcoated walls!  As a result, not only could it
not be washed, but it couldn't even be touched up -- touching it up
with the exact same paint produced a spot of a different color, since
a different amount of paint soaked into the plaster.

The only cure was to put on primer -- we found that we needed 2 coats.
I wondered when the builder refused to touch up flaws in his paint job,
but I let it go.  He knew that touchup was impossible without completely 
repainting the house.  I wonder whether this sort of near-fraud is standard 
practice among builders of new houses.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    
    Well, f.w.i.w., here's my opinion on wall paint.  I've seen lot's
    of high quality flat/eggshell paint, and none of it is very washable.
    However, marks can be taken out with something like "Soft Scrub".
    
    I've used Benjamin Moore's best interior semi-gloss (I'm not sure 
    what they call it, but it's there medium gloss) oil and latex 
    paints, and I really like them.  I haven't tried washing the room
    with the oil-paint, but the latex washed very nice.  It's especially
    good for the bathroom.  As for looks, I think the semi-gloss looks
    good in small rooms, but it may be less attractive in a large rooms.
    By the way, one coat of off-white Benjamin Moore's best semi-gloss
    latex completely covered blue walls!  Definitely worth the money.
    

    
    
    I've used Sear's paint for years and I have no complaints, I guess
    it depends if you want to pay $10 a gallon or $20. 
    One thing to think of with flat vs. semi-gloss (btw Sears has a good
    washable flat) is semi-gloss will bring out the slightest imperfection
    in a wall, if you have sheetrock walls I don't recomend semi-gloss.
    
    ace
    

    The oil vs latex question is hitting me now, and there really isn't
    enough comments here for me to make a good choice.  The people that are
    going to stain my house want to use latex, and the reason given is that
    'it's better for the environment'.  I question if it's better for oil
    or latex molecules to be floating around the air, but what I really
    want to know is which will last longer and be less problems.  Is the
    painter just leading me towards latex cause it's easier to use?
    
    bill

    
    Well, what he is saying about latex may be true, but most of the
    stain should be going into the wood not the ground.  I suspect
    he just prefers it because it's less mess to work with.
    
    I would strongly recommend going with oil-based stain.  It protects
    the wood, and is very unlikely to peel.  Latex stain doesn't really
    protect the wood as well as oil, it can mildew, and it can peel.
    As for brands - well, I'm sure there are many decent brands on the
    market, but I've been quite pleased with Cuprinol.
    
    -tm
                                     

    
      In the few houses that I've seen stained with latex stain, I've
    seen some peel. In the MANY houses I've seen with oil stain, I've
    NEVER seen one peel! This painter must have his own reasons for
    wanting to use latex stain, most likely it's just 'what he uses'.
    I think you should go with an oil-based stain. It seems to last
    longer, fade less, and doesn't peel (although I understand that
    it's *possible* for solid color oil stain to peel).
      You should NOT use this painter to do the staining if you go with
    oil-based stain. He already has stated that he doesn't *want* to
    use it, and if you get him to use it, you may have problems because
    of his lack of desire and/or experience with it.
    
       BTW - I am VERY impressed with Glidden's stains lately, and
    Cuprinol, which we always used (my father's a painter) has seemed
    to have gone downhill lately.
    
    					Kenny

    re: .12
    
    Could someone address the point I raised in .12?  I'd certainly prefer
    to use the oil stain, since I believe it does a better job of
    protection, but Olympic explicitly states not to use oil on top of oil. 
    Are they making a convenience judgment for me (i. e. the second coat of
    oil stain won't help preserve the wood all that much, therefore I'll be
    a more satisfied customer if I use the more convenient latex) or is
    there a real reason why oil over oil (solid stains, both) is a bad
    idea.  I can't think of any, but it would be nice to be sure.
    
       Gary

    re .18:
    
    I stained my house with oil based solid color (Sears - back when they had 
    good sales).  Since then I've redone areas where work has scratched, rubbed,
    or otherwise degraded the finish.  Doesn't seem to be any problem with
    the re-stained areas.  Does anybody know the theory behind the "don't
    restain with oil statement?"
    
    /Dave

Re: .17
If you would like to see oil based stain which has peeled, please
drop by our home anytime ;^).

Actually, the bottom level of the trim, where it gets splashed as a
result of rain, etc., always peels after about two years, on our house.
I stain our house myself and believe I do it properly (earned my living
about 25 years ago painting houses around Boston.  (Note no mention of
my having been a professional but just someone who painted for his
daily bread. Professional I wasn't!)

The stain on the south facing clapboards has peeled in three or four
small places - again high moisture places because of rain dripping and
house plant shading.

I met a local house painter in the paint store this Spring and he 
strongly recommended the latex based stains for subsequent staining
over oil based stains but not where semi-transparent stains are
used.  I restained our shed using latex based stain and fell in love
with the idea.  Latex stain, in my opinion, goes on much easier,
covers better and appears to bleach out more slowly (our house
and shed are stained a rich, dark brown and bleaching is quite apparent 
one Summer after restaining).  This last week-end I restained all
the trim using latex based stain and expect it to hold up as well 
as, if not better than, the oil based stain - but only time will
tell.

I also like the ease of clean-up with latex based stain - just some
warm water and soap and my brushes are like new.  With oil based
stain the clean-up has always been more of a pain.

None of the people I've talked with said it was necessary to use 
water based stain over oil based stain but I have been told little
to none of the stain will get through to the wood if the undercoat
is a solid based stain unless the undercoat is quite well worn 
regardless of which stain you use - oil or latex.  Semitransparent
stain is another matter - I was told.

Douglas

  I'd like to paint a yellow refrigerator white.  Must I use a special 
 appliance paint?  or can I use a few cans of KRYLON glossy white, that sells
 at Spags for $1.93 per can?

    Thanks

    Steve

    The door gasket will usually react badly with any paint other
    than the appliance enamel sold for that purpose.

I haven't seen any notes on this, as most are about *removing* paint, etc. from
bricks, but if I've missed any, please provide me with pointers...

Has anyone ever white-washed or painted their interior fireplace bricks?  If so,
what is involved -- did you do it yourself or get a contractor?  -- what are
the pros/cons?  were you pleased with the results?

My husband and I are consolidating a small den and living room into a "great
room" and prefer a more formal, contemporary look to the "rustic" look of the
dark brick, and we're considering lightening it, if feasible.  I've seen some
pictures in magazines of brick that looks sort of creamy white, but it doesn't
look like paint, so I was wondering if anyone knows about how to achieve this
affect...

Thanks for any information you can provide,
-Cori

    We've painted bricks in our house.  They were gray bricks used on
    our fireplace and a structural wall, not the red color usually
    associated with bricks.  We didn't do anything special.  We
    just rolled on the latex.  The biggest problem was getting the
    paint into all the little cracks.  We put on two coats in order to
    get coverage for a dirty white that had been put on previously.
    
    On the pro side, the latex makes the bricks smoother, easier to
    clean.  On the con side, you can see dust easier, and once you
    paint brick it's almost impossible to remove it.
    
    Hope this helps.

    I painted the exterior brick facing of my house white last year.
    
    Used Benjamin Moore MooreGard primer (oil based) and then their alkyd
    exterior paint (1 coat).  A rough surface roller across the surface
    followed by a fairly stiff large bristle brush across and down the
    mortar covered very well. 
    
    	-Barry-
    

The creamy fireplace in the picture may have been made with creamy color
"bricks" -- maybe some kind of colored cement block.  I know that one
can buy cement bricks and cement "stones" in a variety of colors.

Before you paint your fireplace brickwork, I'd suggest that you find some
way to look at a real example of painted bricks, to be sure that you are 
going to like the effect.  It may look better in pictures (or on the
outside of a house) than it does in your great room.

I wonder if there is a non-paint way of lightening the color of the bricks?

	Larry

    The only thing guaranteed if you paint brick is that some subsequent
    owner will curse you many times over.  I know someone who removed
    whitewash from brick walls in a finished basement; a painstaking job
    that took months.  He needed to worry more about the lighting, because
    the bare brick was darker, but at least it looked like a home and not
    an industrial hallway.  (No offense to the author of .2. There's a big
    difference between interior and exterior surfaces.  Ideas that are fine
    on the outside can be quite different on the inside.)
    
    I agree with .3.  You should look at real examples.  My guess is that
    if you paint brick, you'll wind up with a fireplace that looks like
    painted brick, which will be neither contemporary nor formal, but
    cheap.  You'll also have to worry about the effects of heat on the
    paint, if you use the fireplace.
    
    Instead of brick, how about tile?  I'd guess it should be possible to
    put a layer of tile over the brick, and I think the result would be
    much nicer.  Or keep the brick the way it is, but create a contemporary
    look in other ways.  You could put in a marble mantle, or sleek,
    high-quality glass doors, or just create the right atmosphere with
    create use of furniture, fixtures, and artwork around the fireplace.
    
       Gary

    If you have to worry about the effect of the heat on the paint you
    have a bigger problem than whether you should paint the brick or not.
    On my painted brick fireplace smoke staining is the only problem.  I
    wish it hadn't been painted, but in fact I think it looks better than
    the unpainted brick fireplace in the downstairs apartment.  

See 1609.2 for my comments about an adhesive product that conditions surfaces
to accept skim coat plaster.

    BTW, as an aside on these discussions on skim-coating non-blueboard...
    
    The opposite situation works fine:  You can do a tape and
    joint-compound job on blueboard just fine.   

Well, we decided to do the painting -- and it looks fantastic!  *I'm*
extremely pleased with how light it looks (cream colored) and how it gives
a continuous affect to the wall (rather than looking broken up with the red
brick against the pastel walls).  Of course, we also sponge-painted the walls,
painted the trim/windows, put in a new ceiling with recessed lighting, had the
wood floors sanded/refinished,etc. which also add to the room's overall bright-
ness! We did leave the hearth unpainted, though, which keeps the place from
looking "institutional" as a former reply noted...

We weren't too concerned with the effects of heat, since we'll be using a
wood stove and not the fireplace.  Smoke may present a problem, but cleaning
the painted brick shouldn't be any harder than cleaning unpainted.

As far as the tile suggestion goes, I'll keep it in mind to mention to the
future owners (that is, if they do, as you all presume, curse me for painting
the chimney).  Frankly, I doubt if painted brick would prevent any house sale
from going through -- as we all know, a home purchase is more an emotional
one than a logical one.

Our furnishings do add so much to the overall look of the room, but the lighter
brick enhances the airy feeling (especially with 7.5' ceilings) even more.  It's
a good suggestion, though.

Thanks for the ideas,

-Cori

>             <<< Note 1918.13 by NYEM1::MILBERG "Barry Milberg" >>>
>                                    -< BIN >-

>    we just used a 'paint' called BIN on some old walls and over wallpaper.
>    is a white shellac type primer and seals ANYTHING.
    
>    	-Barry-
 
How tight a seal is "Sealed" ?

    The real question is, does this stuff do a better  job at sealing "old
plaster" (Horsehair & Portland & ??) in very old houses than and Oil Alkyd
base paint ?

    Based on reading several articles over the past couple of years, there
is a serious problem in very old houses  (pre-1900's  )  that don't have a
vapor barrier installed, with the exfiltration carrying moisture laden air
through the walls and basically nullifying the new insulation.

    I would  eventually  like  to  add  insulation, but before that can be
practical, the walls  need to be "sealed".  Oil alkyd paint seems to offer
the more efficient cost effective method that I've heard about (so far).

    Painting is also attactive, because with the right "color mix", it can
be stenciled right over (or  whatever).

Bob



    

    re .14:

    Glidden makes a special "vapor barrier paint."  I don't know if it's
    any better than an ordinary alkyd paint.

    I'm going to have brand-new skim-coated plaster walls in my house
    next week and need help to figure out how to paint it right the first
    time.
       
    Checking out the plasterers work at another site, the general
    contractor gave me some advice: He said prime the walls with a OIL
    based paint and then you can go ahead and use whatever latex paint
    over it. Is this OK? 

    Also: Whats the best and quickest way to paint the top of the wall
    without getting any paint on the ceiling?
    
    Most of the notes in here seem to deal with fixing bad paint jobs
    or redecorating. What do you do at the beginning? Can I get away
    with just one coat because the walls are uniform?
    
    		Domenic

    1) Prime with OIL based, then paint with latex?  Yes, you betcha
    
    2) Best way to do wall withough doing ceiling. Wide masking tape on
    ceiling. We use 3"
    
    
    				herb
    

    Also, don't forget to allow your new plaster to cure before you paint. 
    I think the recommended time is about 10-14 days, depending on humidity.

    Don't worry about getting paint on the ceiling (within reason);
    you'll never see it.  The only way you'll notice it is if you stand
    next to the wall and look up.  It is much less noticable to have wall 
    paint on the ceiling than ceiling paint on the wall...so paint the
    ceiling first, then the walls.  If you go over onto the ceiling
    by 1/16" or something, as long as it's reasonably uniform you'll
    never notice.

    re .49
    
    Today's plaster needs almost no curing time.  My plasterer told us to
    wait at least 45 minutes 8-) before we painted.
    
    Also, latex primer is fine (I used a Ben. Moore variety), just make
    sure that it is recommended for plaster, some aren't.  If you
    plan to wallpaper, then oil would be recommended.
    
    Bob

    Talked to a painter yesterday and he recommended using the same
    paint for both coats. Thinking of going with a semi-gloss.
    
    		Domenic

    
    Two coats of a good paint work just fine over raw plaster.
    
    I wouldn't use tape to keep paint off the ceiling, especially if it's
    textured. The paint tends to wick in under the tape and create a bigger
    mess than if you just free-handed. I picked up a tool at Sears about
    a lifetime ago, a small paint pad with wheels at either end of the
    housing. The wheels glide along the unpainted surface (a ceiling,
    woodwork, etc) and the pad lays down a clean line about a hair's breadth
    away from the corner. Works like a charm.
    

If you're going to install a cornice molding, you don't need to worry about 
sloppy painting in the wall-to-ceiling corner at all.

			DCL, old house owner and molding enthusiast

    
    ...Only the first time. For repainting, I'd assume that it's even more
    important to keep the paint off the molding than off the ceiling.
    
    I do like the looks, though.

re: Painting over horsehair plaster ...

Question:

    Part  of my hallway/stairwell wall has been 'handled' so  much  that
    after  remooving  the  wallpaper  I  find the finish surface of  the
    plaster is damaged, leaving a 'rough and crumbly' surface beneath.
    
    By  crumbly,  I mean when i rub my  fingers  over  it,  the  plaster
    crumbles under my touch (however light the touch).
    
    Can this surface be 'skim coated' successfully  before  being primed
    and painted ??

    Bob
        
    
    
    
    

    A technique I saw my landlord using to firm up some crumbling plaster
    was to hit it with several applications of thinned white paint.
    Each application would soak in and bind the plaster together.
    Once reasonably firmed around the edges, he skim coated it.
    
    	FWIW: Dave.

	Well here it is two and a half years later and the job has just begun.
I am lightly sanding everything but the doors, those I sand down smooth
starting with course and working through to 220 grit.

	So far, lots of sanding and a little primer.  I have been using an 
oil based primer but the guy at the paint store keeps pushing me towards
water based.  I've just about emptied the first gallon of primer and am 
thinking of trying a quart of weter based primer.  Waste of money?  I know,
if what you're doing works why do it another way.  Because oil based primer
is MESSY and water based has to be easier for cleanup, etc.

	Also, opinions on enamel - water based or oil based?

	Thanks in advance,

	Douglas

I just stripped the wallpaper off the walls in my dining room and
living room. The walls are plaster and are solid, with only a
little patching needed where there are nail holes.

The plaster is gritty and has some "pock marks." How should I prepare
them for paint?

Kathy

RE: .56
Kathy, if these walls are the old horse hair plaster, check out note 1760.
-Amy

Do you have to paint plaster ceilings (smooth)?
Someone recommended to me to just paint the walls and that
the plain plaster will stay better longer than any paint we
use.  This includes a kitchen and bathroom as well as LR, DR and den.

-Amy

    If your plaster walls are in generally good shape, you just need to 
wash them down well to remove all the old paste,etc from the wallpaper and 
then patch any small holes, pockmarks,etc with a little spackle. 

I would then give the wall a first coat of primer paint (latex if that is 
what you are going with) and check for more dings, nicks, holes to be filled. 
You may be surprised what you missed the first time around! After that, you 
should be ready for a finish coat of paint, or perhaps two, depending on 
how well the wall gets covered the first time.

    Vic H

    Be careful to remove ALL of the old wallpaper paste. We removed
    wallpaper from our dining room plaster walls last year. We used a 
    commercial paste remover that we got from the paint store. It didn't 
    remove it all so we were advised by a professional house painter to 
    use a fine grade sand paper. We felt confident we got all the paste 
    off with this method, but 7 or so months later, the paint is peeling, 
    chipping, and cracking in several areas due to excess wallpaper paste.
    
    Mike

Thanks, all. Sounds like I've got a fine old time ahead
of me!!!

Kathy

    
    We just (Sunday) had a celling re-done (plastered).  Any idea how long
    it should dry (/cure) prior to painting?  
    
    /Jeff

    re: .3
    About a week, said the guy who just plastered our walls.

    "Three full days" said the guy who just skim-coated our walls.

    Re 60.  Was is paper or vinyl that left the paste residue?  Does is
    matter or do they both leave a residue? 
    
    We too just bought a house that requires a lot of paper removal (both
    kinds) and painting over already painted walls.  One room is painted
    canary yellow, another a medium blue and the third a sky blue.  We would
    like to go an eggshell color in all rooms.  Any preparation required to
    paint over painted walls?  I should mention that two painted rooms have
    stencil.  I just want to paint right over the stuff.
    
    A wallpaper removal tip that I tried and worked great was to:
    - wet a dish towel 
    - place it on the wall
    - go over the towel with a hot steam iron
    - paper peels off 
    
    Linda   
  

  My husband and I bought a townhouse a few months ago, and before we moved
in, we took wallpaper down in two of the bedrooms.  One of the rooms used
to be a child's room, and had vinyl paper on the walls that just would not
succumb to the steamer or to the FAST solvent.  After many late nights of
steaming and scraping with putty knives, all the wallpaper was down.  We
then sanded the surface, thought it was smooth, primed the surface, and 
painted it with a flat latex.  

  With no lights on, the rooms look fine.  But as soon as a light is turned
on, you can see what I call acne scars.  Obviously, we didn't get the
walls smooth enough.

  We would like to get the walls smooth enough so that the paint job will
look good.  I've read the notes in here on removing wallpaper and 
plastering and skim coating.  But most people's final goal seems to be
have been re-wallpapering, as opposed to painting.  If we're going to
paint, we have must stricter requirements on the final surface.

  It's quite possible that the paper surface of the drywall is damaged.
I'm not sure how many of the scars are from left-over bottom layer of the
wallpaper versus a torn up drywall surface.

Here are the options that I've come up with from reading various notes:

	1) Have the walls skim coated.  I probably wouldn't try this
	   myself, given the comments on difficulty that I've seen here.

	2) Use a joint compound to create a smooth surface over the drywall.
	   This sounds easier than the skim coating, so I'd be willing to
	   try this ourselves.

	3) Sand sand sand until the wall is incredibly smooth, shine many
	   bright lights on it to guarantee that it's smooth, and then
	   re-prime and re-paint.

	   Given the three coats of paint on the walls, this would be a lot
	   of work.  My main concern is that we would finish the painting,
	   and discover acne scars again!

	   If we sanded and re-painted, would we need to apply a coat of
	   drywall sealer?

Any recommendations on what approach to take?

Thanks!

	--Sharon

Here is what I do (and am doing now):

After the wallpaper is  removed,  fill  all  holes,  gouges, scars, etc.  I use
premixed Spackle since it is  more  scratch  resistant when it dries than joint
compound.  Then I use an  orbital  finish sander with COARSE sandpaper and sand
smooth all the surface area.  Do NOT use a sponge and wet sand, the finish will
not be as smooth.  A 10x12 room  can  take  most  of the day and it is so dusty
that  you MUST use a nose&mouth filter and a  window  fan  blowing  out.    The
sanding removes residual glue and paper and smoothes down the  spackled  areas.

Then, after I am satisfied that ALL the  scars  are  smooth  to  the best of my
eyesight, I paint on a primer using a roller.    After  the  primer  is  dry  I
usually discover more areas to be Spackled and sanded.  Again, Spackle and sand
using coarse sandpaper;  when dry, reprime.  And I keep  doing  that until I am
satisfied.    

Finally, I finish paint using a semi-gloss  (flat  is  OK,  it  is  a  personal
preference);    I  have had GREAT luck using  the  top-of-the-line  version  of
Glidden.  Use a roller that does not have  a  "tight"  or "smooth" nap.  If the
roller is too smooth, you will get a thin, smooth  coat  that  easily  shows up
surface imperfections.  The looser nap gives a slight texture that hides a lot.

Finally, when you are  done, DO NOT BE CRITICAL OF YOUR WORK.  You will see all
of the imperfections - even if they are not real. :-)

Luck,

Dave

    
    I don't know what you call "coarse", but I'd be expect anything larger
    than 150 grit to leave visible gouges. (I know it does for me, at least
    with block sanding.)
    

>               <<< Note 3903.2 by ESCROW::KILGORE "Wild Bill" >>>
>                                 -< "Coarse?" >-
>
>    
>    I don't know what you call "coarse", but I'd be expect anything larger
>    than 150 grit to leave visible gouges. (I know it does for me, at least
>    with block sanding.)

Using the orbital "palm" sander, I have good luck with anything 80 grit or over
- the orbiting makes the difference.  Less than 80 grit leaves scratches.

    Hang a picture?

    
    Off-hand, I'd say you can do it yourself with joint compound, but
    you'll have to sand afterword, and it may take a couple coats.
    But it certainly wouldn't hurt to investigate skim-coating if you
    can afford it.
    
    -tm
    

Our plasterer showed me a trick he used. When making repairs after a job is done,
just wash the dried patch with a wet (not dripping) sponge and you can "sand" 
the spot without the dust and mess.

    One more thing to worry about, from Science News, Oct. 20:
    
    "Up to one-third of all water-based house paint in the United States
    may release potentially dangerous mercury vapors, a government study
    suggests."
    
    Apparently the EPA banned 'phenylmercuric acetate' and other
    mercury-based preservatives from interior (not exterior) paints last
    August, but there may be paint still on the shelves in your local paint
    store.  Not only that, but some manufacturers may have made paint with
    about 2.5 times as much as the EPA limits at the time.  Some houses in
    Detroit (where the study was done) had 600 times greater mercury
    concentrations than the outside air one month after painting, and
    detected greater than normal levels of mercury in the people tested as
    well.
    
    [Most "botanica" shops catering to "African-Carribean-Hispanic"
    religious groups also sell capsules of mercury that you are supposed to
    "periodically sprinkle the contents on the floor" to ward off evil
    spirits, so you might want to consider refraining from that as well...
    :+]
    
    So, read the labels of your paint cans, air out those rooms
    occasionally, and don't use exterior paint inside.
    
    Gack, maybe I'll leave that furniture unfinished!
    
    Willie

    Of course, mercury isn't the only problem with latex paints ... there
    are other preservatives, extenders, thixotropic agents, not to mention
    pigments all in quite a chemical soup.  For some people, some of these
    other things are quite as problematic as the mercury.
    
    Stuart

I've looked  through  the  notes  file,  but couldn't find any references to
'paintable wallcovering', so I'll ask here...

While roaming  around  trying  to  figure  out  the  new  layout of my local
hardware  store, I stumbled across a product I had not seen before. It looks
like  thick  wall paper with texture or 'little lumps' on it. The literature
says  it  is  recycled  paper  with recycle wood chips embedded in it. It is
designed  to  be  put  up  right  on top of the existing wall covering (wall
paper,  sheet  rock,  horse  hair  plaster, etc.) and then painted with your
favorite  color  paint.  It is not self adhesive, but rather uses wall paper
paste.  It  says  the  seams  are  not visible after painting because of the
textureing.

Has anyone ever used this stuff? Does it work?

Thanks, Jim...
    

I've used something similar called painter's canvas.  It's basically 
wallpaper rolls of canvas, applied just like wallpaper.   It has a sort of
"linen" surface and covers lumps and bumps nicely.  Our is not painted -- the 
natural color is ivory -- but they told us at the wallpaper store that you
could paint it, and also paint over it several times.  I like the way it
looks.  We'll probably paint it when it gets worn, but we've had it up three or
four years and it still looks fine and, yes, the seams are invisible.

I've also seen embossed wallpaper designed to do a similar job, but this
painter's canvas is much sturdier.

I've seen this stuff in the stores.  It's basically the same stuff they put
on the walls here at Spit Brook and in other buildings.  It's a heavy
vinyl textured product that applies with adhesive and you can paint over it.

			Steve

    I've seen wallpaper that's embossed -- like an old-style tin ceiling.
    It's made of heavy paper, and is imported from England. One of the 
    brand names is "Anaglypta."
    
     

    I did a complete search of this conference in hope of finding an answer
    to this problem.  Since there are no topics even remotely related, I
    decided to submit a new topic.

    We recently purchased a house which wasn't completely finished.  One of
    the tasks at hand is to stain the stair banister and moldings which run
    along the stairs.  The banister won't be a problem, as it can be removed
    for finishing.  The moldings, however, run along the carpeting, and 
    probably can't be removed without doing some damage.  \

    The question I have is: How can the molding be stained without getting 
    stain on the carpet?  Does anyone have any tricks to do this?  About the
    only way I can think of is to mask off the carpeting with wide masking
    tape, but this probably won't be completely effective.  Is there something
    I can coat the carpet with that will not stain?

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,
    Denis

    
    Nothing I know of you can use on the carpet to prevent it from
    staining. Masking it is the only way. And use a foam brush. It will
    drip a lot less so you can better put the stain where you want. Also be
    very carefull.
    
    Mike

    Rather than just tape you might also get some plastic.  The plastic
    might be stiff enough so that you can push it down between the carpet
    and molding and then fold it back over the carpet. It's cheap enough and 
    any stain you drip won't penetrate it so that you can wipe it up.
    
    George

    
    I bought some plastic carpet protectors at Builders Square in
    Nashua NH, these are about 3' long and when painting/staining
    baseboard work quite well, they are about 3-4 inches wide and
    has a molded 90 degree crease in it so it tucks in between the 
    carpet and the baseboard. It can also be cut with sissors.
    
    
    
    Royce

    
    Becarefull of using plastic by itself. The stain can hit the plastic
    and the run off. Stain is very watery.
    
    Mike

    I've seen some hard red plastic "protectors" at various stores. I'm not
    sure of the name however it's for painting close to moldings/anything
    you don't won't the paint to go on - without having to put on masking
    tape. It probably is located where "they" keep the red plastic covers
    to put over rollers so paint won't splatter.
    
    Maybe a combination of items may work. 
    				Cindy
    

    I have seen a tool that looks like a strip of venetian blind material. 
    You put it in between the carpet and below the moulding, stain that
    area and move it along.  You periodically clean it to remove the excess
    stain.  You should be able to find it in a store that sells wall paint. 
    It might be called an edge guide.  I hope that this helps.
     

I applied the embossed paper to a ceiling that was all cracked up and it hid
the ceiling surface quite nicely.  Although I painted it, I can still see the
seems although they don't bother me.  I believe a heavy oil base paint would
have made even the seems invisible.

    
    I've used a wide drywall knife for just this purpose, with great
    success.
    
    You want something stiff enough to wedge in and push the carpet down
    and out of the way. Wiping the stain on with a rag minimizes drips.
    

    Thanks for all the inputs!  I'll stop by Builder's Square tonight and
    pick up some of the tools you suggested.

    Regards,
    Denis

    If you do drip some stain on the carpet, I recently read a tip in the
    Boston Globe that might help. Match some dye, like Ritz clothing dye,
    as close to the carpet color as possible. Mix the dye with water and
    try to dye the area where the stain dripped. I haven't tried it but it
    sounds like it might work in a pinch.
    
    Linda
    

re .-1:

That's for bleach, not for stain.  Dye won't make anything lighter.

I am looking for an Eastern Mass. or Southern NH source for the "Waterlox"
product mentioned in the base note, on behalf of a friend.  Where can this
be found? 

				Steve

I've taped and spackled some plasterboard, and now I'm ready to paint
with interior latex.

I have a can of latex "sealer". What is this sealer, how does
it differ from primer, and can I use it instead of primer?

thanks...

Re: .16

What does it say on the can for applications?  You may often see a product
labelled as a "primer/sealer".  As long as it isn't stuff meant exclusively
for wallpaper preparation, any latex product should serve as a primer over
wallboard.

			Steve

Hello,

I've read entry 327 on painting appliances (the only one I could find.)  It is
helpful but rather dated.  I am wondering if there is any new information on
this subject regarding:  whether or not it should be done DIY; any places around
Worcester that would do it; what would it cost.

Thanks in advance.

    
    
    
    
    
    	I need some answers before I start with my house -stripping a lot
    of paper, repainting, ect...
    
    
    
    	What problems would I encounter if I use old paint.  Never opened,
    	stored in the garage for a couple of years, exposed to freezing
    	temperatures for a couple of winters.
    
    	I was given a good supply of paint by a neighbor after they 
    	had repainted because they had a few gallons too much, and hate
    	to (really shouldn't) throw it into the dump.
    
    
    		Thanks
    		Chuck
    

    
    I believe (if I remember right from personel experience) that
    previously frozen latex paint will have "curdled" -- it will remain a
    mass of lumps no matter how much you stir it.
    
    I've used "old" latex and oil products that were stored in a basement
    with success. No data on frozen oil-based.
    

    re: .66
    Yes, latex paint is an emulsion, and freezing is a great way to
    break an emulsion and precipitate whatever was emulsified.  This
    shouldn't be a problem with oil-based paint.
    
    Take a look at the paint; if it stirs up okay, it's probably
    fine.  

    Also,
    
    Any good and bad experiences with N.H. outfits that do painting would
    be well appreciated.
    
    Mike

Back to preparation questions...

I'm about to paint my mom's livingroom and kitchen.
The livingroom appears to have a satin finish paint now,
and the kitchen is semi-gloss.  We're planning on
using those finishes with the new paint.  Can I just
paint semi-gloss over semi-gloss and satin over satin?
Or do I have to use a primer or something.  I
HOPE it just needs the paint (I'll do two coats of
Benjamin Moore) as it would save time!

Thanks!

Just the paint is fine.   And Benjamin Moore is a fine choice. 

You really only need a primer over a previously unpainted surface.  And
it's also ok to mix finishes - I put semigloss over satin just recently,
and you can't see any difference from where was only semigloss.

					Steve

    Wash the walls down with something first, especially in the kitchen,
    to remove grease and dirt.  Spic-n-Span is good for that kind of
    thing.

Spic-and-Span is just a weak mixture of TSP.  You can buy full-strength
TSP at hardware stores for less money, or even better, Savogran has a product
called Soilax (I think) which is ammoniated TSP - we used this recently
and it does a fabulous job of removing grime from walls.

				Steve

    Here's another question about preparing walls to paint...
    
    I just stripped the wall paper off a couple of the bedrooms in my house
    and I'm getting ready to paint.  I'll be using a flat latex on the
    walls.  I know I need to get the rest of the glue off using a remover
    or sanding or both, but I heard conflicting things about getting the
    walls ready.
    
    My father-in-law thinks I may need to "size" the walls so that the
    paint will stick; my dad thinks two coats of the flat will do the
    trick; and others in here have said that they use a primer before
    painting.  Any advice on which will do the best job??
    
    - Skip

    Use the primer that the paint manufacture recommends. Then count on
    two coats of paint.  Works for me everytime.
    
    Marc H.

    re -2 
    
    My fiancee' and I have so far stripped and painted the walls in our
    living room, dining room, hallway, master bedroom and one other
    bedroom. When it came time to paint, I asked the guy at the paint store
    if we should use a primer. He said that if the walls had been
    wallpapered that they were probably sized because the wallpaper
    wouldn't have stayed up on just the bare plaster. The sizing (he says)
    is all the primer you need. Our results so far have been good. But it's
    been less than a year. We did use two coats though, maybe the first
    coat acted as the primer? 
    
    Steve B. (done painting for a while)

    Wash the walls thoroughly with TSP, then paint with a good primer and
    then the final coat (two coats if needed) of latex.  I prefer an oil-based
    primer myself.
    
    I simply painted latex over our hallway after stripping the wallpaper
    and washing the walls down, but in a couple of spots the latex paint
    has peeled a bit.
    
    I later stripped a bathroom, washed the walls less carefully and then
    used an oil-based primer.  No problems will peeling yet. 
    
    -Mike
    
                    

    I recently painted my dishwasher using an oil based enamel paint and a
    good quality roller.  This may not be the "proper" method, but it looks
    really good.  It's been about two months and it hasn't peeled or
    bubbled.  I would like to paint my refrigerator and stove also, so if
    any one has any comments with regard to this method -good or bad, I
    would really appreciate it.

    I believe they sell paint specifically for appliances, but I am not 
sure what particular claim to fame it has.....

    For surface prep work, I would sand the glossy surfaces with #400 grit 
paper to give it some "tooth" and then wash everything well to give it a 
clean surface. Paint with a fine napped roller to provide a smooth finish 
and that should give you a reasonable paint job. 

    If you spray the finish coat, then learn to start the spray _before_ 
the edge of the appliance, and end the spray after you overshoot the other 
side. In other words, DON'T start or stop the spray while aimed "AT" the 
surface. slight spitting and globbing will often occur and doing this 
minimizes the risk of droplets and other problems....


    Vic H

    
    For "best" results.......Paint it the same way you would
    a car.  Wet sand, (prime/sand,depending on how bad the
    surface is),tape, spray and buff.
    
    JD
      

    I've not tried this ;-) but if I were to try painting an appliance,
    I think might give Moore's Porch and Floor Enamel a try.  It's
    incredibly tough and has a nice gloss.

    .16 has it right.  The processes used to finish appliances at the
    factory are virtually identical to those used to paint automobiles. I
    have seen autobody shops which offer appliance refinishing services.
    
    Al
    

    My father had his refirdge painted at an autobody shop.  Looked brand
    spanking new!
    
    Chris D.

    Believe it or not there are places that specialize in repainting
    appliances.
    
    Mike

Baked enamel is a manufacturing process.  You can't do it yourself.  On the
other hand, I've painted baked enamel steel cabinet doors with plain old spray 
cans and they look fine.  I painted a car once with lucite water-based house 
paint.  It didn't look exactly fine, but it looked better than it did without 
the paint.  These amateur surfaces are not as wear-resistant as a baked finish,
but I can always do it again.  The car lasted until it died from other causes
several years later.  The cabinet doors are doing fine and will last until 
that great kitchen remodelling takes place some day.

    
     Years ago I had a friend in Watertown, Mass. that owned an Appliance
    painting shop. He told me that paint doesn't last long on a stove 
    because of the excessive heat and even when the paint was baked on
    most painters would only guarantee their work 90 days. All other
    appliances were guaranteed 5 years. 

    I recently did over my kitchen and have about 4 sheets of blue board
    left over that I wanted to use in another room I am doing over, 
    someone told me that I had to do something to the blue board before I
    could type it or paint it. In this room I am only wallpapering but need
    to size the walls first. Is there anything I should do before painting
    or typeing blue board??
    
    Thanks 
    Tom

    Tom,
    
    Blue board is for plastering and sheetrock is for painting...but...
    
    I did over a pantry with blue board and had all intentions of
    plastering, but after one wall, (which came out pretty good), I felt 
    it wasn't worth the work for a rental. So I taped and painted the
    remaining two walls, you can't tell the difference.
    
    So I'd say, tape it, prime it and paint it.  I used an oil based
    primer.
    
    It got me thinking...what is the difference between blue board and
    sheetrock, besides price?  Nothing unless you try to plaster sheetrock???
    
    Joe                     

>It got me thinking...what is the difference between blue board and
>sheetrock, besides price?

WAG:
 I believe it (like green board) is more resistant to water and/or mildew.

Blueboard has something in it that helps plaster to bond better to it.

    
    You can do everything to blueboard that you can to sheetrock but not
    visa versa. Blueboard is moisture resistant so you can slap up all
    that very wet plaster w/o it falling apart. Do not plaster sheetrock.
    It will fall apart. 

    Thanks for the response, I'm glad I can use them I would hate to have
    to carry these 4x12 foot sheets down stairs!!
    
    Thanks
    Tom casey

    The plaster-bonding chemical(s) in blueboard also deteriorate when
    exposed to light, over time.  So, don't just put up some board and
    wait a few months before skimcoating because the board's
    stick-to-it-tiveness will be compromised.  When we compared some new
    board with the stuff that had been on the wall for awhile, it was
    obvious that the older board has faded in color a lot.

    Our plasterer informed us of this one.  It was only one piece, so he
    wasn't really financially motivated here ;-).

    I've plastered over both types.....only difference that I could see
    was that the blueboard seemed to hold the water better,and that when
    the wet plaster hit the blueboard...it seemed to stick alittle better.
    
    Most plaster(skimcoat) hardens up in about 20 min.,so the sheetrock
    really will not "fall apart".
    
    Marc H.

    We are in the process of starting to paint a new house with skim-coat 
    Plaster and textured ceilings.  I was going to use two coats of latex
    paint everwhere but the bathrooms where I plan on using oil-based
    paint.  Here again I will put two coats.  We are not going to do
    anything to the ceilings.  My questions are:
    
    Is it ok to use 2 coats with no primer on skim-coated walls?
    Is 2 coats of latex paint O.K or is 1 coat of oil then one coat of
    latex better? ( Bathrooms are going to be 2 coats of oil ) 
    I am not planning on painting the ceilings, is this O.K.? 
    I plan on using Benjamin Moore interior flat/semi-gloss paint, is this
    brand O.K?  
    
    
    Thanks for any help/advice.
    
    Kumar

If you're going to wallpaper, put on Zinsser latex primer/sizer.  The paper
will go on nicely, and you won't have to put on anything else.

SJ

    Two coats of waterbase latex over new skim is best, but I recommend you
    thoroughly fill, sand & wash it down first.  Any surface imperfections
    will show through under changing lighting conditions.
    
    I'd only bother to use a sealer/primer if it was only going to be a
    one-coat job.  I recently painted through with Baer(sp?) paints & found
    the one-coat coverage to be excellent, but still a bit too patchy to
    be acceptable.  
    
    The November or December issue of consumer reports covered paints, so
    you may want to look at that - can't remember how they rated Benjamin
    Moore but I recall that one particular low-priced Sears paint got a
    pretty good rating.
    
    In the bathroom, it's best to use 3 coats of oil.  If it's over
    plaster it's recommended to either:
    
      o  wait 90 days before applying oilbase paint (you said that the
         house was new?)
    
    OR
    
      o  prime with a solution of zinc sulphate.
    
    While you've got all the place in turmoil you might as well put a
    single coat of brilliant white on the ceiling, most of the textured
    finishes are very grey & patchy and do not reflect light very well.
    The paint will also help to seal the finish & make future cleaning
    or painting easier.  (Especially if you have a smoker or wood fire
    in the house).
    
    happy painting.

    Saalam
    
    Colin
    

Why should you need to fill (?) or sand a new skim coat?  If it's done
properly, it should be smooth as a baby's bottom.

Benjamin Moore is the best paint brand I have ever used, and I've used a lot
of them.  I don't buy anything else nowadays.  Their AquaGlo paint was top-rated
by CU.  The paint goes on smoothly, doesn't spatter and hides well.

My personal preference is to not use oil based paints.  Today's latex paints
are extremely durable, easier to apply and easier to maintain.  I will
in fact be using Benjamin Moore AquaGlo in my downstairs bathroom which
is currently being remodelled.

I would recommend a coat of a good latex primer over the skimcoat - the
Zinnser products are good.

				Steve

    Bare plaster sucks up paint like a sponge.  Why waste an expensive
    paint when a cheaper primer will do the job better?
    
    I've heard nothing but good about Benjamin Moore.  It is one of the
    most expensive paints on the market though.

Most people around here use it because they can get it at Spags.

CdH

�Most people around here use it because they can get it at Spags.
    
    Spag's has the best prices on Benjamin Moore that I've ever seen, but
    even at their price it is still the most expensive paint on the market.

    
    If the house has been occupied, there are always some minor surface
    imperfections that need fixing and usually shrinkage cracking around
    mouldings & baseboards.  At least I'd recommend a washdown as the
    plaster will probably have a layer of dust.  In kitchens & bathrooms
    you'd also want to remove or block any existing greasy stains (with
    Kilz or a like product) else they will bleed through the new paint.
    
    It'a personal preference (or cost constraint) but I *like* the first
    coat to soak in to the plaster - it products a durable finish that you
    can wash clean easily.  Ever heard of the tempera technique used by
    Michelangelo and other Italian renaissance muralists?  The paint's
    still there after many hundreds of years and several cleanings
    ;-)
                                                                       
    Regards
    
    Colin
    
     
    
    

�    It'a personal preference (or cost constraint) but I *like* the first
�    coat to soak in to the plaster - it products a durable finish that you
�    can wash clean easily.  
    
    But if you can get this same effect with a product that is designed to
    do this and that costs less (i.e. a primer), why use paint?

    Maybe I misunderstood!  Part of the problem is being from the UK - we
    tend to use different terminology.  A primer is simply the first
    coat - very often the same material as the topcoat(s), sometimes
    *thinned* for economy.  What the plaster soaks up is just the base
    of the paint (water or oil).  An alternative is to use a sealer or
    sizer to prevent paint soaking in and then finish with a single coat.
    In the UK this method is often used for economy on newbuild.
    
    best,
    
    Colin
    

    I went out this weekend and bought a couple of 5-gallon buckets of HQ
    best interior primer at Home Quarters.  34 dollars for 5 gallons.  I 
    decided to skip the two coats of paint route, mostly due to paint cost.
    I looked up in consumer reports on interior paint and they recommeded
    the sherwin williams super-paint as the best.  The price per-gallon of
    the stuff was 18.99 though.  I then went to SPAGS and a local paint
    store ( Michaels in Westboro), the price at spags was 18.55 and at 
    Michaels ( with contractors discount because were doing the whole house
    ) was 17.58.  I noticed the same thing for the exterior stain we
    bought, Spags is no longer the cheapest for paint.  Spags is starting
    to go down hill as far as always having the lowest price.  Must be
    because his kids took over.  Oh well,  I am still debating between the
    S-W superpaint and BM aqua-pearl.
    
    
    Kumar

    18.55 vs. 17.58 was for the Benjamin Moore paint not the sherwin
    williams.
    
    Kumar

	We are in the middle of re-doing our bathroom. Among other things,
	the varnished wood work needs painting. We sanded the molding and
	doors down, applied a couple of coats of Latex Acrylic *Exterior*
	House and Trim paint with a Satin finish. We used this because we
	had it around. It went on streaky, needing several coats to cover. 

	Then we went to put on the Latex Acrylic *Interior* paint for the 
	finish coat and it seemed to eat away at the previous coats. When 
	a spot was brushed over more than once the paint would cake up or 
	take the previous layer off in small chunks.

	We painted new molding that had not been previously varnished with 
	just the interior paint, and it came out fine.

	We plan to sand down the poor paint job on the previously varnished 
	woodwork and start over again, painting it with the interior paint. 
	Are we likely to have better results? Any ideas what went wrong?
 
	

    It sounds to me like the varnish was not COMPLETELY sanded off. Latex
    paint won't adhere to varnish. You'll have to make sure that the trim
    is sanded down completely to the bare wood. If cost isn't a problem,
    it would be easier to buy new trim.
    
    I don't believe it your problem was caused by interior vs exterior
    paint.
    
    
    Steve

    Are you sure the exterior paint was completely dry before you applied
    the interior paint?

    
    re .2
    
    It was dry to the touch, but the coat was just a couple of hours old.
    I wish I had known that the woodwork I was painting after lunch was
    given its most recent coat (by my spouse), just before lunch. 

    Latex paints need to do more than just dry ... the latex needs to cure
    to become tough enough to take another coat.  
    
    I recently painted inside trim with a latex gloss and it was a disaster 
    because it didn't "stick" very well in places ... the slightest knock 
    and the paint fell off.  Now before anyone says I didn't prep well enough, 
    the ironic thing was that the places I prepped the best were the places 
    the paint fell off the most!  The result was that I had to strip all
    the latex paint off ... a lot of it peeled away like soft tape with
    little effort ... and then repaint using an oil-based gloss.
    
    No way will I use latex again internally ... I hate the stink of oil
    but I hated all the work I put in twice to paint and once to strip off
    all the crappy latex paint!
    
    Stuart

Perhaps you used a crappy latex paint.  I've been very happy using latex 
paint (Benjamin Moore) on interior trim.  I apply a coat of Zinnser 1-2-3
first, then 2-3 coats of the paint.  I follow the directions, and it sticks
perfectly and leaves a smooth, elegant finish. 

					Steve

I believe that exterior paint is more likely to contain nasty stuff like
mercury than is interior paint.

By the way, I recently had the unpleasant experience of using a cheaper
brand of paint (Pittsburgh) on a project when I ran out of Benjamin Moore
and I was astonished at the difference in quality.  The Pittsburgh paint
was thinner, splattered when rolled on, didn't cover as well, and reeked
for days.  In comparison, the Moore paint was thick, rolled on smoothly
with almost no splattering, and was almost odor-free.  In the end, the
cheaper paint was not a bargain.

			Steve

What's the best way to make sure that we can safely paint latex paint over
oil paint?

An interior decorator told me that all we need to do is lightly sand the oil
paint wall first to remove the shine.  Then we can put on a coat of latex
primer and a coat of latex paint.

Any input appreciated.

Mario

    I just saw badly peeling ceiling in a house that we were interested in
    buying. My husband used to do house painting and he told me it was 
    because of latex paint being used over oil. I don't suggest using
    latex over oil, you should used oil over oil. Is there a specific
    reason you want latex? or a reason you don't want oil?
    
    cd
    

    Oil paint produces more fumes and is harder to clean off of brushes
    etc. I used to think the oils were of higher quality and would last
    longer, but now a days, there are a lot of very fine latexes. I don't 
    know of any other reasons. 
    
    I really don't know how to tell one from the other by just looking at a
    wall that has been painted. Is there some way to test for it?
    
    
    dave

A good paint store can tell if you bring them a paint chip.

You don't find "oil" paints any more.  What you see instead are "alkyd" paints.
Many of them will stick fine under or over latex.

			Steve

Does anyone have any suggestions for removing paint from brick?  The house I
just moved into, they painted the brick red and the mortar white to make it 
look neat and clean.... I would love to get this off...........

dana

Try note 791.

    We're about to paint a room that was wallpapered with vinyl wallpaper.
    The wall underneath was not properly prepared for the wallpaper and
    even though we took a lot of care there are still areas where the 
    surface of the drywall came up with the wallpaper.
    
    After going through the notes in 1987.* and in 3903.*, I've come up
    with 3 types of fillers I can use to smooth out these areas:
    
    -spackle (I've used this to fill small holes, does it work for large areas?
    -joint compound (I've never used this--how does it differ from spackle?)
    -patching plaster (I suspect this is inappropriate for drywall, but 
     dunno--is this what I should use?
    
    Anyone care to recommend one over another?  The worst area is about 2ft
    square---it looks like it came unglued and the previous owners secured
    it with elmer's glue---arrgh!
    
    Thanks,
    
    _Randy

Having repaired several walls in my place, I used two methods.

First, covering the area with a couple of skim coats of joint compound to level
things up with the surrounding surface, then applying a thick wall repair
covering after a light sanding. My walls were pretty beat, so I had to apply
the thick wallpaper-like covering, then the final finish.  You may be able to
get away with only joint compound.   Get youself a    W I D E   taping knife
and to go it.

Whatever you choose to do, take your time. The joint compound shrinks
considerably, so it will need several coats and those must be applied only
when the previous coat is thoroughly dry, usually 24 hours.

Be sure to prime the repaired area with an oil or shellac based primer.  The
joint compound will absorb the water from either the wallpaper paste or latex
and soften, not to mention cause the paste or paint to adhere poorly.

    I had this problem in a room we converted into a walk-in closet.  We
    just used textured paint (mixed paint with joint compound and used
    textured roller).  It worked fairly well.
    
    You can also buy paintable wallpaper to cover it up.

    I saw a suggestion to always pour paint through a filter into a
    separate container and never paint from the original can.
    
    Why is this?
    
    What do you use for a filter?
    
    Does this apply to stains also?
    
    						John

You can buy disposable filters in almost any paint or home supply store.
I suppose the logic is that dirt and other stuff gets into the paint, but
I've never bothered with this.

				Steve

    
    
    Sometimes you get skin or pigments in the paint for one
    reason or the other.  So in such case you were putting it
    on a large area and it dries.  The unknown material tends to 
    stickout of the paint......
                                   JD
    

    Our stained interior wood is in TERRIBLE condition.  We want to 
    put a stairway runner on our interior stairs, but first we have 
    to refinish the woodwork along the sides of the stairs, and on 
    each step (where the carpeting won't be).
    
    What does it look like now?  It's faded, splotchy, and multiple
    shades of brown.  
    
    What do we do, and where do we begin?  I assume we have to clean 
    it first, but with anything special?  What's the best kind of interior
    stain to use?  How do you tell which color will be best (color charts
    are SO misleading)?  Should we remove the existing color before 
    applying a new color?  HOW do you apply stain?  How many coats of 
    stain?  
    
    I'm running out of questions (for now), and you're probably tired 
    of reading them.
    
    By the way, the current molding is "dull."  Should the finished
    look be shiny?  (The molding in adjacent rooms is a shiny horrible
    color that I'll probably want to change eventually too.)
    
    Thanks in advance for your help.
    
    Gale
    

    I've actually restained over stain but only because the polyurethane
    had worn down. Probably you'll need to sand off any polyurethane and
    then restain.
    I've used dark stain when I needed to cover up "problem" spots. If
    after staining the wood looks fine, you could probably go with a light
    stain if you want to. It depends if you were able to get out the
    blotches, etc...
    		Cindy

    What I did is used some liquid wood stripper, and steel wool. 
    I then re-stained and polyurethaned. I can't think of the name
    of the wood stripper, but it's non-toxic and doesn't smell bad.
    It works pretty good. It's not a fun job but it beats replacing 
    all the wood in the house. 
    
           /Bob 

    I'm about to paint one of my rooms, and the mouldings have shrunk in
    places leaving gaps.  I'm going to scrape the paint around these
    problems and fill the gaps.   I also have a gap between the mantel
    and the wall that was previously filled with something.  (I had to
    remove the mantel to fix the wall)
    
    What is the best stuff for filling miscelaneous cracks and gaps in
    mouldings, etc. before painting??   Latex caulk?   
    I see things called "painter's putty" at the store, but I don't know
    what it is.
    
    	Dave.

    Well, opinions as to what is "best" may be a religious debate, but 
    the paintable caulk, as you suggest, would probably be my choice.
    Try to find one that's supposed to remain slighly flexible after
    drying.
    
    You could also use something like Spackle or equivalent.  That has
    the advantage of being easily sandable to the surface contour, which
    might be an advantage with cracks at the ends of mouldings.  Its
    disadvantage is that it has absolutely no "give" at all, so new
    cracks may be more likely to develop.  I like Spackle for filling
    nail holes, as it's easy to sand right off flush with the board
    surface, but cracks are something else again.
    

Joint compound is a popular choice here.  It's easier to work with than
spackle.

				Steve

    I use plaster of paris....works guick, and doesn't shrink.
    
    Marc H.

    
    Under solid paint the sandable plastic wood fillers for gaps between
    wood joints work very well.  Between mouldings and sheetrock the
    latex fillers are good.  Two applications of the latter work better
    than one.  Put up a small bead and use a damp cloth to wipe it well
    into the gap.  Let ut dry (and it will shrink in) and then apply a
    second bead.
    
    Colin
    

I know this topic is for interior painting... but fwiw, I used the GE 
paintable caulk this past summer on some outside projects.  (The GE was 
one of the more expensive paintable caulks.)  I found that the paint didn't 
cover it well at all!  It was as if you were painting wax - the paint just 
kept "sliding" off it...  It was very frustrating, I had to paint most of 
it at least a dozen times, and it still didn't come out great.

Dan

    The carpenter that installed our skylights suggested PHENOSEAL(sp?).
    (I had mentioned that I was going to be doing some crown molding work
    and wondered what to fill the joints w/.... he said it's great stuff.)
    
    

Phenoseal is, last I checked, a butyl rubber caulk.  My kitchen contractor
liked it too, but I found it tends to absorb water and articles I've read
say it doesn't last as long as a good latex or silicone caulk.  For this
purpose, it may be fine as it doesn't shrink the way latex does and is
paintable.

				Steve

    
    We're removing vinyl wallpaper from a dining area and will be painting
    that area.  The paper is coming off very easily but can you tell me how
    i can recognize 'sizing'?  What's left on the walls is a surface which
    feels like a very fine sandpaper to the touch.  Does that have to come
    off before painting?
    
    c

    "sizing" is the technical name for wallpaper glue.  The glue that held
    your paper to the wall.  It will be white to beige in color.
    
    Yes you have to strip it.   I found that "DIF" wallpaper stripper
    solution was the best.  (though some people swear by laundry fabric
    softener)
    
    Easiest thing to do, is mix some some up in a garden sprayer, spray on
    the wall, let it soak in a few minutes, then scrape with wide
    scraper/taping knife, whatever.   Repeat until wall is clean.
    
    I would also do the final pass with a sponge.  I liked to get a fresh
    clean floor mop sponge and use that to do the final pass.
    The wall should be very smooth to the touch when done.   
    
    Every little bit needs to come off, or it will show up when you paint.
    As we painted the room we just stripped, my SO noted that latex paint
    seemed to find patches of sizing we missed and swelled up nice ugly
    over them.   I just took my scraper and scraped the wet paint and glue
    off clean and re-painted the area. (you have to do this immediately)
    This lead her to wonder if the paint people could come up with a better
    sizing stripper.
    
    	Dave.

    
    
    I got a few estimates for painting my home.  I got two different
    recommendations, and I can't determine which is preferable.
    
    There exists an oil-based paint.  One contractor recommended spot
    priming the bare spots, then applying 2 coats of oil-based paint.
    
    The other recommended priming the entire house, and final coat of
    latex.
    
    Both gave reasons for their recommendation, and I don't know which I
    should favor.  Advice?
    
    Marc
    
    

    
    I'd go for a variation on the first option.  First remove *all*
    loose paint by scraping.  Wash, then spot prime and then 2 coats.

    
    I'd stick with the oil.  dont forget, have the battle is 
    to prep it correctly!
    
    JD

    Stick with what's there.  And ditto on .23: do *thorough* surface
    preparation!!!

    
    We are looking into having the interior of our house painted. I have a
    friend who says we should wait to fall, you should never paint or
    wallpaper during the summer because it is too hot.
    
    Is there or would there be a problem if rooms were painted in the
    summer months?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mary
    

     I think the issues are heat and humidity. If it's really, really hot
    it doesn't turn out well because it dries too quickly, unless it's also
    really humid in which case it takes forever to dry. I'd do it any time
    within the next month or so or wait until september, if you're
    concerned about the weather, but in truth I've painted even during
    mid-summer heat/humidity waves and it came out fine.

    
    I did a search for this but did not find anything. 
    
    
    What are the pros and cons of painting versus wallpapering? We are
    looking into both for our house which is a year old.
    
    The builder did everything in flat white paint and now we are looking
    to do a better job.
    
    And, what is the paper of choice? My preference is vinyl as it is more
    durable and washable versus the thinner prepasted.
    
    Comments?
    
    

    I've been thinking about this for when I eventually redo the bathroom.
    
    Paint is more flexible than wallpaper.  It's easier (and I suspect
    cheaper) to change your mind.  Also, you can create more effects with
    paint, what with stencilling and faux finishes and sponging and all. 
    And if you want to dress it up without a lot of work, you can always
    use wallpaper borders.
    
    My concern for the bathroom was that vinyl paper might provide better
    protection from all the moisture.

    
    I tend not to like wallpaper in bathrooms.  Every place I have lived
    that has had it, it seems to peel after while from the moisture.  So,
    we are planning on semi-gloss for all the baths.
    
    But, we are going back and fourth on the downstairs level.  We have a
    family room that opens to the kitchen and foyer so we are thinking of
    running the paper we pick for the FR, which is pastel like, throughout
    the foyer, kitchen and hallway to make it look uniform.
    
    Then we switch back to thinking about painting it, but seeing these are
    the areas which would tend to have the most activity, we thought that
    the vinyl paper would be something to better protect the walls with.
    
    Decisions, decisions.
    

>    I tend not to like wallpaper in bathrooms.  Every place I have lived
>    that has had it, it seems to peel after while from the moisture.  So,
>    we are planning on semi-gloss for all the baths.

For papering in bathrooms, use pre-mixed Vinyl paste, even for pre-pasted
wallpaper. Although it is primarily for use in applying vinyl borders over 
vinyl paper, it seems to keep paper on walls in humid environments.

Dave

    
    Can you paint over sizing?  Say you want to wallpaper half the wall and
    paint the rest... first you size the wall, can you paint over it?
    
    Mary
    

    Why not paint the wall first, slightly overlapping where you know the 
    paper will end? Then put up your paper.

    
    The only size the area where the paper will be?
    
    

    Absolutely.

    My bedroom needs to be repainted, including the woodwork. I would also 
    like to replace the wall-to-wall carpeting.
    
    Which should be done first?  Ideally, I'd rip up the old carpet, paint
    and then put down new carpet.  Does installing carpet gouge the
    baseboards?
    
    Carol

    
    Re .106:
    
    Carpet installation might mar the baseboard a little, but it will be
    much easier to paint the baseboard while there's no carpet, and touch
    up after carpet installation, than to attmpt to paint the baseboard
    after the new carpet is installed.
    
    I would do as you suggtested -- remove old carpet, paint, install new
    carpet.
    

    
    I recently did over three spare bedrooms and both carpet installers 
    I dealt with recommended painting the walls AFTER the carpet was 
    installed. Their reasoning was that in wrassling the carpet into 
    place that coarse backing would scuff the walls if it made contact.
    
    I ignored them, and basically had to repaint one wall that scuffed 
    just as they promised.  

>                <<< Note 1199.108 by REFINE::MCDONALD "shh!" >>>
>
>    I recently did over three spare bedrooms and both carpet installers 
>    I dealt with recommended painting the walls AFTER the carpet was 
>    installed. Their reasoning was that in wrassling the carpet into 
>    place that coarse backing would scuff the walls if it made contact.
>    
>    I ignored them, and basically had to repaint one wall that scuffed 
>    just as they promised.  

Did they do the carpet installation or did you?
Did you have baseboards on these walls?
I've never done wall-to-wall carpet, but I've got to believe that 
taking care to avoid scuffing walls is easier than getting drips
of paint off the pile of the rug, even BEFORE it dries.

- tom]

    
    Re .108:
    
    Sounds like the carpet installers had their interest in mind, rather than
    yours. :-)
    
    I've had a fair amount of carpet installed, and have never suffered more
    damage than light scuffing of the baseboard -- the backing is indeed
    abrasive. (Of course, I always hover in the doorway, on the pretense
    of offering cold drinks or better lighting.)
    

We are presently in the middle of remodling. My suggestions are:

First you remove the wallpaper. Removing wallpaper is incredibly messy and NOT
something you want to do with a new rug in place.  Remember to keep OLD
carpeting in place to absorb the water runnoff. 

Then you spackle/plaster and sand the walls and trim, if required. Same comment
about messiness. 

Then you scrape the ceiling to remove flakes and lose paint.  More messiness
dittos. 

Then you remove the old carpeting.  This will carry away much of the dust.

Now that removing the carpeting has uncovered the baseboard trim, then you sand
the baseboards.

Then you re-nail the floor (if you are going to carpet) to get rid of squeeks.  
Take your time, walk around a lot with the house quiet and do not spare the 
screw_nails; you'll only get this chance once every 10 years or so.

THEN you clean everything up.

Now the room is "prepped".

Painting should be done from the top down to minimize the effort in cleaning up 
drips.  Paint the ceiling, then the walls, then the trim and baseboard.  Note, 
if putting up wallpaper, do that after painting, but before putting in new 
carpet - see above about water runoff.

Then put in the new carpet.  For what it's worth, we have never had a serious
problem with "scuffing" due to insensitive carpet installers.  Any problems
have been due to the new carpet rubbing some color off on to the wall and it
cleaned up quickly. 

Or.............move

:-)

Luck, 

Dave

    My 2 cents worth to .111's excellant suggestions, would be to use
    joint compound instead of spackle. JC is much more durable and 
    easier to feather.
    
    Tom

    Hello,
    
        I have cermiac tiles on the wall in the kitchen. I don't like the
    colour and don't plan to remove them since they have been stucked to
    the wall good. Any chance that I can use enamel paint and paint them
    over the grossly colour. Will the layer of enamel paint chip
    eventually? This will be located in the kitchen area.
    
    Thanks for your time,
    
    dave
    

    >Any chance that I can use enamel paint and paint them over the grossly
    >colour. 

    	Sure! Of course you'd have to paint the grout, which
    	whould be VERY ugly.

    >Will the layer of enamel paint chip eventually? 

    	Absolutely!  The paint simply won't adhere to the ceramic,
    	unless you do a major sanding job. (VERY labor and sandpaper
    	intensive).

    >This will be located in the kitchen area.
     
    	Bite the bullet, and take the time to remove them.  All other
    	"fixes" will look awful, and you will eventually have to do 
    	what you're trying to avoid anyway.
               

You can use a primer such as Zinsser 1-2-3 (latex) which claims to adhere to
glossy surfaces.  Cleaning and a light sanding is probably in order anyway.

			Steve

... and then we'll be reading about it later in the "why did they ever do that"
note.  Let's decide now where the reply should go for the "how do you strip
paint off tile?" note and the "gee I've read every note but this hasn't been
covered so I'm starting a whole new string on how do you make tile shiney
again?" note. 

:-)

    
    Hi,
    
    I have been using WATCO Danish Oil which has the stain (Golden Oak)
    already in it.  The stuff works great, but it had been discontinued
    due to questionable safety hazards.  I is (was) made by Minwax.  My
    problem is I need more to match.  'Edward's' had carried it but the
    store is out and the manager called all the area stores and they
    have none left.  Would a regular stain (Minwax, same color) followed 
    by an tongue oil treatment do it???

    I think you'll have a hard time finding "tongue" oil... Try Tung Oil
    and you have much better luck.. HD has it..
    

Watco oil is not discontinued - and even the "clear" finish is back in stores!
But you can find other tung-oil finishes, with or without stain.  Home Depot
sells Behr brand products, and I've used their "natural" finish with great
success.

					Steve

>                     Would a regular stain (Minwax, same color) followed 
>    by an tongue oil treatment do it???
    
    
    And here I thought this was a variation on a hand-rubbed finish.

    I never cared for the "golden oak" watco - too orange for my taste.
    What I did on my floors is to combine a small amount of oak paste 
    stain into the oil and rub that on.  Experiment with some scraps 
    first.  I didn't use much per gal. maybe 1/8-1/4 cup or so.

    
    RE: Tongue oil
    
    Sorry, got my HD and Adam and Eve catalogs mixed up......
    Hmmm, wonder which DIY video I will get?
    
    Thanks for the suggestions...
    

    RE: Adam and Eve catalog
    
    I read the book, haven't seen the catalog or video.  :-)
    
    Mark

	So, does anyone know where in the Worcester area WATCO
	can be purchased?  Called minwax and they said that it
	is 'rumored' that another company bought it and is 
	distributing it once again.

I saw it at "Milford County Stores" in Milford, NH, so it does exist.

				Steve

It's popular with owners of canoes with wooden gunnels.  I've seen it in
mail order catalogues.

    I believe the Watco formula was purchased by General Finishes. The
    Woodworker's Store in Cambridge carries it. You probably can buy it
    mail order from them. I don't have their number handy, but you can get it
    from Information or find them on the Web.
    
    Art

1-800-713-0289 

    
	Thanks, you've been a big help...


	/andy

    
    Does anyone know who manuractures Sears interior latex paints?
    

I think Glidden makes most of them.

		Steve

    
    Just an update on WATCO oil finishes, they are all now available at
    Economy Paint in Worcester.
    
    /andy