Conference 7.286::home_work

    Rich,
    
    I had my driveway enlarged last fall to make room for two cars.
    Here are a couple of pointers:
    
    1. Get estimates from a number of contractors -- I had estimates
       of $750 to $390 for a 10' by 15' addition!
    2. Ask them for references from 2 to 3 years ago -- as driveway
       problems don't show up in the first year or two.
    3. Your cost is going to depend on (a) the area and (b) any preparation
       they have to do.  In my case they had to dig out some of the
       topsoil (too soft to use) and fill with gravel.
    
    I went with Tom Proia in Bilerica 617-663-6338.  He was the $390
    estimate and he had excellent references.  I don't know if he will
    go to Townsend or not ......
    
    I know that the addition was worth it for me -- I hate having to
    move cars in order to go to work!!
    
    Hope this helps
    VCS
    

    
    Depending on the length of the driveway, you could get off cheaper
    by adding a parking `jog' instead of widening the whole driveway.
    This alternative can also be aesthetically more pleasing, and will
    save you lots of snow shoveling, although it does rule out the
    possibility of full court basketball :-) .
        
            single driveway       double         parking jog
    
                |    |          |        |       |        |
                |    |          |        |       |        |
                |    |          |        |       |        |
                |    |          |        |        \       |
                |    |          |        |         \      |
                |    |          |        |          \     |
                |    |          |        |           |    |
                |    |          |        |           |    |
                |    |          |        |           |    |
    

Rich,
    	A strong recommendation for :
    
    			R.K. HEALY PAVING
    			WESTFORD MA.
    
    			692-6705 ask for Dick
    
    	I used to work with Dick and his son Brian, they run a top-quality
    operation and insist on quality. I dont hesitate to recommend them
    to friends . You wont find them in the yellow pages as they rely
    on word-of-mouth to get new work ( they don't have any trouble getting
    it either) . Has been in the business over 20 years and they will
    you give you a quality job for a fair price.
    
    	As far as price goes , as .1 said it depends on sqare footage,
    nature of job, and how much excavation/fill is required -
          If  you do give them a call fell free to tell Dick that 
    "dan sent ya".
    
    	Dan Woodward
    	ex-hot-top-engineer 
    	
        

    
    Re: .all
    
    Thanks for all the advice!
    
    Re: .3
    
    Thanks for the recommendation...I'll definitely give him a call!

    
    Hi...me again (.0)...
    
    Thanks again for the recommendation, but I talked to Brian Healy and he
    seems to have plenty of work without going to Townsend (can't fault him
    for that), so can anyone recommend some more driveway contractors?
    ...or anyone to avoid?  There's probably no chance of getting it
    done before winter, but I'd like to get someone lined up for the
    spring, anyway.
    
    Thanks in advance!    	

    						- Rich

    DOes anyone know the approximate costs involved in have blacktop
    put down? I am planning to expand/repave the existing driveway
    and want to get an approximate cost (per sq foot/yard/etc...)
    
    Any comments?
    
    M
    

    When I was soliciting estimates for my driveway, they were coming
    in at .75 to $1 per square foot. I already had a gravel base so
    these estimates were for minor prepwork and then the blacktop.
    
    Charly

I had my driveway graded, 4" of rolled, crushed gravel base and 2" of 
asphalt for about $1.00/sq. ft. I suggest you shop around and keep after 
them as the pavers are not the most reliable when it comes to getting 
back to you. Once there, my contractor did an excellent job.

That was two years ago...

    I agree 100 percent with .2.  Two years ago I paid about a buck
    a square foot for grading, gravel, base, and finish layer. Let the
    job "age" a year and then hire somebody to seal it all with a
    high-pressure sealant.
    
    When I was shopping around for quotations, I got everything from
    about $.90 to almost $2.00 a square foot. 
    
    I finally settled on a "local" to handle the job, and it was the
    funniest thing I ever saw, I mean talk about CONFUSION! But the
    end result was absolutely first-rate.
    
    							- craig
    

    I was tapping on my asphalt driveway recently with a broomstick
    and noticed that in some spots you hear a hollow sound.  The other
    places you just get a thud.
    
    The driveway is about 6 months old.  Should this hollow sound be
    of concern?   Is it likely that a pothole would form there?
    There are no signs of sagging or anything.  If it is of concern
    can the installer be held liable to fix it?
    
    -al

    I noticed this same phenomenon with my driveway the first winter that
    I had it and I too was concerned that something was wrong under the
    asphalt and that I had been taken by the installer. It seems to
    go away in the spring with no ill-effects (this is the third winter).
    I would wait until spring and see what you have then before getting
    too excited.
    
    Charly

    I have the same problem with my front porch. I dug out to area around
    it to see what was going on. The front porch was in line with where
    the water line lead into the house. It was indeed hollowed out/settled.
    Since last summer the porch is slowly starting to sink, about 1/4
    inch so far.
    They have a service out now called MUD JACKING(?) or close to that,
    which they say will fill this in and raise the porch back to where
    it should be. I've been think about have this done, but figured
    that I'll wait till spring time. (we have 2' of snow right now)
    I've notice the MUD JACKING truck in our nieghbor hood before.        
    
    Anyone know more about Mud Jacking ?

    
    
    Rich,
    
    	Did you ever find yourself a paving company?? I also live in
    Townsend and want to have my driveway paved. I was just wondering
    if you finally contracted to have someone do the job.
    
    Patty

    
    What are the pros and cons of "re-tarring" your paved drivewway?
    
    You've seen people do it, they have a 5 gallon container of
    black goop (tar) and they trowel it on the pavement, and let it
    dry.  
    
    
    Is this mostly for preservation of the blacktop?
    
    It would look better afterwards too.
    
    Comments, experiences?
    
    Steve
    
    
     
    
    

    My uncle asked me to help him do it to his driveway years ago...
    I , for the longest time, thought it sealed the driveway..thus
    preserving the surface somewhat and it looked good.
    
    In the past few years I've read an article or two on the subject and 
    recall speaking to somewhat at a building home center who said it does
    more for the individual applying it than it does for the driveway
    itself....... .
    
    I suppose I still could be swayed either way....It does 'appear'
    to look nice after it's applied. But spill a little gasoline on
    it some time later &*%$#! It disolves almost instantly.

    MArk

    
    I just did mine last year. What a pain. It took 14 of those 5 gallon
    drums. First thing I did was get some patch filler and filled in
    the big cracks and low spots I had. I let that dry then applied
    the sealent. It seems to work fine. I'm not sure how well it is
    preserving the driveway. The one thing I did notice was that on
    sunny days during the winter the ice melts off easier. I think thats
    because it's so much blacker now.

I think that the stuff is in fact useful, in our climate.

Asphalt, when applied, is somewhat porous.  There's lots of little cracks 
between the stones.  Water can get down in those cracks and freeze, expanding 
and making the cracks a little bigger, so more water can get in, so....

The driveway sealant just makes a smoother top surface with fewer cracks for 
the water to enter and work on your driveway.

Paul

    The sealer is extremely useful for preventing damage to your
    driveway from spills ... if you get the right kind of sealer.
    If you get the plain, vanilla "coal-tar emulsion" sealer, it will
    make your driveway black, fill in a few cracks, but not much
    else.  But if you spring for an extra couple of bucks a pail,
    you can get rubberized, non-slip sealant for the driveway- 
    essentially what "Sears Best" turns out to be.  I put this
    on my driveway 2 years ago.  I've got a friend who's car
    seems to like taking a leak on my driveway, and the oil just
    sits on top - no penetration.  Also, I've spilled some gasoline
    on it a few times.  It seems to keep it on the surface for a
    few minutes, to allow you to rinse it off - with non-treated
    asphalt, it'd be soaked into the driveway before you knew
    what hit you.
    
    In short - get the good stuff, and it'll pay off (it did for
    me, anyhow)
    
    andy
    

    Amen to preventative maintenance! A blacktop driveway is Soooo
    expensive to replace, and so relatively inexpensive to maintain.
    Good sealant keeps water out of those tiny cracks, which will be
    big cracks in the spring.
    
    The stuff really soaks in the first time, but after that you
    use much less.

    
    re.5
    
    You're right about the cracks, now that spring is here and the snow
    is gone, I've noticed that a bigger crack now exists at the interface
    between the street and my driveway.  The rest appears okay, but
    like you say, preventative maintenance is the key.
                                                 
    It seems that the consensus is that it's worth time and money to
    do a re-tarring, but use quality materials or don't bother at all.
                                                 
    Thanks for the inps.
    
    Steve
    

    Any suggestions for proper application when filling ?
    
    Such as, is it necessary to rent a hand roller, preferable weather
    conditions, proper drying time, etc ...
    
    

    Excuse me if this is dealt with elsehwere, but some prior owner
    of my house put down a section of blacktop in the backyard that
    measures roughly 15' x 10'. I dno't know what they had in mind
    but I know what I have in mind -- I'd like it out of there --
    I'd much rather look at grass, flowers, a vegetable garden, anything
    living, as a matter of fact.
    
    So, what I need is information on removing it: how much it costs,
    who should I call, can I do it myself maybe?
    
    Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing?

A pick, a shovel, a wheelbarrow, somewhere to dump the pieces of blacktop, and 
a strong back.

Seriously, though, it's probably 2" thick or less, and should come up pretty 
easily.

Paul

    As we are learning from the driveway debate, pour gasoline on the
    blacktop ... it will quickly and easily disolve the stuff -- just
    don't smoke near the pile ...
    
    -- B

    Wait for a warm day and it will pry up with a shovel.I removed a
    sidewalk 40' long in about an hour.I wouldn,t put gas or any 
    chemical on it to soften it. The soil might get contaminated.

    re: .7
    
    When you get the driveway coating, get one of the application tools
    that's the most common - the kind with a brush on one side, a rubber
    squeegie on the other.  When applying, start at one end of the driveway
    (near house/garage is best) - dump WELL MIXED sealant on driveway
    (a little bit), work into driveway with brush end of tool (to make
    sure it gets into every nook and cranny), then smooth surface out
    with squeegie end of the tool.  This should work find.  Using
    the roller method would appear to be needless - unless you want
    your driveway looking like your living room wall's paint job :-).
    
    andy
    

    If you don't already have a utility shed, this may be a good spot
    to put one. This may have been the previous owner's plan.
    It would be nice to have a real floor under one of those
    metal sheds instead of dirt or plywood.
    
    Nick

  Better dig a pilot hole.  Maybe the guy did it right and put down 4"-6"
  of gravel before putting on the blacktop.  In that case, not only do you
  have to worry about carting off all that fill, you'll probably have to
  buy enough loam to turn it back into something that can be gardened...

  Are you sure you wouldn't like a basketball court?

  JP

How come no one seems to think sealer is needed for the asphalt in roads?
    There must be millions of miles of highways that last for years
    without the stuff. My driveway has lasted the 14 years Ive owned
    it without the stuff.
    
    I think I agree with the earlier note that thought the most good
    was in the exercise the user gets! then of course its good for Sears
    and the other stores that sell the stuff.
                         
    Im all for maintenance, but there are enough things that really
    need to be maintained, without painting my driveway!
    
    Just one mans opinion!
    Ron

    
    re .10
    
    In West Boylston, they apparently re-tarred some of the side streets
    last year.  I remember what a pain it was cos they had to put down
    a layer of sand over the new tar to prevent it from sticking
    to people's cars, feet, etc.  But that resulted in a dust storm
    everytime a car drove by my house!!!  They eventually swept the
    streets after the tar dried.  It was impossible to keep the car
    clean during that time.  FYI
    
    Steve
    

>How come no one seems to think sealer is needed for the asphalt in roads?

But they do.  Haven't you ever seen areas where they tar the roads and put 
a layer of gravel over them?  Makes the roads last years and years longer.

Paul

    Re. Maintenance on roads... how do you think pot holes form? Poor
    maintenance! Roads are maintained in a variety of ways... New top
    coats of asphalt from time to time, they sometimes heat the top
    layer, scrape it off, mix it with some new material and roll it back
    on and everyones favorite... the FRESH OIL AND SAND ROUTINE.
    
    All of these methods are out of the question for most residential
    driveways, but the asphalt sealer is a good alternative (in my
    opinion). This topic is one of the those where everyone has there
    own opinion and validate arguments and examples to support their
    beliefs. Even the driveway installers themseves are split on this
    one.

    Charly (a sealer)
        
    

    Okay, does anyone know how, if possible, to get the junk that's
    already on the driveway up before sealing it? I'm talking about
    the oil and grease from a car that leaked before I realized it was
    happening.
    
    T.I.A.

    
    RE .14
    
    There is a driveway cleaner which I bought from Sears that worked
    real well for me. It cleans up gas, oil and anything else that can
    get on there.

    re: .14
    
    I've also found that things like Pine Magic, and other strong household
    cleaners work well, too.  ONe problem might be the depth which the
    stuff has seeped into the driveway.  If your driveway was somewhat
    porus, and the oil/grease seeped way down, you'll get a lot up,
    but much will remain.  Use the cleaner with a stiff brush/broom,
    then rinse.  do this a couple of times - it should get enough off
    of the driveway so that the sealer will adhere well, and do what
    it's supposed to.
    
    andy
    

    I know this must have looked funny to anyone passing by, but before
    I coated my driveway I actually cleaned up all the loose dirt with
    a large shop vac. It did a wonderfull job of cleaning out the cracks
    so that I could fill them with the sealer out of the squeeze bottle
    before I coated the whole thing.
    
    Nick

I just heard about a product, Simple Green, which is supposed to work 
miracles of cleaning magic...you might give that a try...

    
    Oil spots:
    
    Spread a little paint thinner over the spot, work in with a stiff
    broom. Then use a good grease-busting detergent, scrub vigorously,
    flush with lots of water, and repeat a few times.
    
    Water will still bead on the spots. To prevent the sealer from beading
    up in the same manner, apply a white latex liquid (made by Latexite,
    quart bottles, just for this purpose) to the spots and
    immediate area, and allow to dry.

    the driveway in my new house is 23 years old, and has never had
    any maintenance at all.  it looks pretty bad.  in addition to
    lots of cracks, there are two 'troughs' where car tires have
    gone up and down it.
    
    my question - can asphault sealer be built up to fill my troughs?
    they are around 1/2 - 1" deep.  when i bought the house i intended
    to put in a new driveway, but if i could smooth out this one myself...
    
    or, is there anything else i could use to fill in these troughs,
    then perhaps seal over it?  the driveway is solid, i would just
    like to have it flat!
    
    thanks.
    
    brian

    Sounds like the base material under the asphalt wasn't sufficient.
    You may have to take the driveway up, put down an adequate base
    and re-tar.  Putting a layer of tar over the existing driveway may
    work, but would the tire troughs re-appear in time?  Just
    hypothesising.  Anybody else ever actually dealt with this problem?

    Phil

Re .20

The sealer would not work to fill in the troughs.  I've used an asphalt type 
product called cold patch (kind of a cold tar that is sold in bags like cement 
mix) for small holes and cracks before, but it would probably be impractical 
for long troughs (not sure it would bond well enough).  

You could try driving on the high spots for the next 23 years.  (I apologize, 
but I couldn't resist.)

						     
							- JP

    Re. 17 Cleaning the dust, sand and dirt off before cleaning... I
    "mow" my driveway with my rotary lawn mower. Start with a pass down
    the middle and work your way back and forth to the edges. The air
    coming from the side discharge does the trick in only a few minutes.
    
    Charly

    As for the cleaning part -- we had good luck with a bucket of warm
    sudsy water (Ivory liquid dish detergent) and a broom. We used an
    old broom to spread the sealant the first time, but last time we
    invested in a squeegee -- much faster and easier. (Neither of us
    is particularly handy, by the way.)
    
    We live in a 6-year-old neighborhood where some of us have sealed
    our driveways and some of us haven't. The unsealed driveways are
    breaking out already, but the sealed ones look as good as new. The
    main culprit appears to be the salt that gets tracked in from the
    streets; driveways on the cul-de-sacs, which aren't usually salted,
    are in much better shape than ones along the through street, even
    where exposure to the weather is roughly even.
    

    For cleaning oil spills on smooth surfaced driveways I have been
    very successfull with "Quick Dry."  It is sold in 25 or 50 lb bags.
    Cover the spot with about a quarter inch of the stuff and then grind
    in into the pavement with your shoe.  In a short time all the oil
    residue is absorbed by the material.  A quick sweep job and maybe
    a hose wash to get rid of the fine dust and its gone. 
    
    It's also a very handy thing to have around the garage if you do
    your own oil changes, etc.
    
    
    

    Kitty litter works real well too if you don't happen to keep the
    commercial compounds on hand. And kitty litter is a lot cheaper.
    (There's a miser in every crowd.)
    
    --bonnie

    A word of caution.  I believe that asphalt is considered a hazardous
    waste material and has to be taken care of accordingly.  You can't
    easily get rid of it.  Can't bury it, can't take it to the landfill
    etc.
    
    Stew
     

    
    
    Sorry if this note exists, I haven't seen it:  Anyone have any
    experiences (good/bad) using driveway (asphalt) patching products?
    I'm not talking about sealers, just stuff to patch holes and fairly
    large cracks.  
    
    My specific need is for something that will fill the gap between
    the edge of my driveway and the railroad ties used to hold the driveway
    gravel bed from falling out, something it's starting to do.  Any
    suggestions?
    
    Andy
    

    A few years back, I bought a couple bags of this driveway patch
    to fill a gap between the driveway and the house.  First, I let
    the hot sun bake the bags for an hour or so.  Then I filled the
    gap about 3-4 inches deep with the patch.  Next I took a foot-long
    piece of 2x4, placed it on the patch, and proceeded to slam it with
    a hammer.  I did this until the entire area that was patched was
    nicely compressed.  The patch has held up as well as the original
    driveway.  

    RE: .0
    
    I was wondering the same thing!  I've got similar problems and looked
    around last fall for filler.  Grossman's sell a type of filler in
    60-80 lb. bags.  Is this what you are refering to?  I remember that
    this stuff needs quite a while to cure before any type of driveway
    sealer can be applied.  So if you are thinking of using it, do it soon
    so you can seal it in the fall.

    Phil

You can also use a type of asphalt called "cold patch".  This is the stuff
the highway Depts. use to fill potholes in the winter when it's too cold
or inconvenient to use hot asphalt.  I've used it with excellent results
to patch driveways when I lived in PA.  However, you do have to let it 
"cure" for six months to a year before applying sealer.  On the plus side,
it's a lot cheaper than the stuff you buy in bags at the hardware store.

You can get it at the local asphalt plant. Look in the yellow pages under
"Asphalt and Asphalt Products".  Back in PA, most places were willing to
sell small quantities to DIY'ers.  You will have to provide containers 
to put it in (I used old 5 gallon buckets).  Most places charge by weight.
You also should plan on using it right after you purchase it, since it 
tends to harden after a week or so.


Installation tip:

To tamp it down, I flattened an old cardboard box, put it over the hole
I filled to overflowing with cold patch, and drove the car back and forth
over it.  Worked like a charm!

    I wouldn't seal an asphalt driveway if I were you.  The asphalt
    needs room to breathe or it will crack.
    

    RE: .4
    
    Asphalt needs to breath???  I know wood breaths but I've never heard
    of asphalt breathing.  It seems to me that breathing (the absorbtion and
    lose of moisture) is exactly what causes asphalt to crack.  When
    new asphalt is put down, much care and consideration goes into
    providing a good base and drainage to prevent water damage.  Any
    experienced asphalt layers out there???
    
    Phil

    Does anyone have some advice regarding raising (a) raising the level
    of a portion of driveway (by something like an inch) to improve
    drainage, and/or (b) installing a drain in a driveway and carport
    (doing that without ripping up 15 feet of asphalt would be nice,
    but sounds unlikely to me) ?
    
    Dick
    

    I know several people that asphalt drives and some seal and some
    dont. The ones that dont have cracks everywhere and the ones that
    seal have no cracks. I'd put the sealer on. It does make it very
    slippery for a few months though.
    
    -j
    

    I read a hint in the paper this weekend about filling/patching
    depressions in a driveway so that the filled area will last longer
    and not be susceptible to heaving/breaging up due to invasion of
    water and freezing.
    
    Because a depression has gently sloping sides, this is leaves a
    perfect path for water to run down the filled depression. It may
    then freeze, expand and break up the patch.
    
    The alternative to merely filling and tamping is to undercut the
    edges of the depression with hammer and cutting tool (like a wide
    chisel) so that there is no slope.  This reduces the invasion of
    water by eliminating a sloping path.
    
	    \********/
	     \******/  Wrong
	      ------
    
    
    		/********\
    	       /**********\ Right
    	      --------------
    
    Make sense ??
    
    JPM
    

    I already have an existing blacktop driveway that I would like to
    get resurfaced with a new layer of blacktop. I have a few places
    where the blacktop sank and created ruts and a few rumps where a
    rock or bolder is coming up.
    
    Any idea on the cost of just doing a paving job over an existing
    driveway would be?
    
    Jim.

    re: .4:
    
    We are having something done to our driveway that sounds like what
    you are looking into.
    
    We have a one-car wide driveway that is about 180' long.  (Let me know
    if you want detailed measurements)  It came with the house, and the
    former ^%#&%$^(^%&*) owners only had a "base layer" of asphalt put on.
    The "top layer", which is made of finer stone, was never done. 
    
    We didn't know this when we bought the house but we figured it out
    after a couple of years.
    
    We are having a top-coat layer put on for $2800.
    
    We live in Princeton, MA.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    jdr

    Re: .4
    
    We too have a driveway with sinks and rocks sticking up.  The way to
    fix it is to get a buldozer, dig it all up, and put a down a proper
    base like the builder should have done in the first place.
    
    Not suprisingly, this will cost you significantly more than if the
    b***** had left you gravel and no black top at all.
    
    For roughly 10' x 100', we are talking about ~$4000.  We figure
    on leaving it till next year.  The more the present surface cracks
    up, the cheaper it ought to get :-)
    
    

    I just finished reading this note and all replies, and I have a
    question.
    
    Is "re-tarring" the same as sealing?  I've sealed my driveway twice,
    using the brush and squegee method.  I can't imagine using a trowel
    to do this, nor a roller.  I get the distinct impression that there
    is another application called "re-tarring" which would be quite
    different from sealing.
    
    Am I confused on this?
    
    Lee

    This note addressed the issue of sealing a driveway - "re-tarring"
    is probably based on the fact that coal tar is one type of sealing
    agent, and I assume that the reference to a trowel in the base note
    was the result of less-than-intimate knowledge of the process, a
    state which prompted the question and which was remedied by the
    plethora of replies.

    A slight change of subject ...
    
    Where our tar driveway used to meet the garage slab there is now
    a 1/2" - 3/4" gap.  Looks like the tar has crept down hill a bity
    over the last five years.
    
    What should I use to fill the crack?  Presumably, having the crack
    is bad from th point of view of freeze-thaw, as well as all those
    ants that decide to excavate it even more for us.
    

    
    The Latexite brand offers two different patching mixtures for such
    a fix. One is a mixture of aggregate up to pea-stone size, the other
    has very fine aggregate. They come in one-gallon pails. Measure the gap
    and read the directions for appropriate application. 

    I personally find that the fine stuff is easier to work with and
    adheres better. If you use the coarse, you might want to goop on
    some of their small-crack-filling liquid (one-quart squeeze bottles)
    to fill in the rough surface, after it sets. Then seal the entire
    driveway.
    
    Caldor's seems to keep a good supply of the Latexite line.

    I notice that there are products that are used at "room temperature"
    to repair asphalt driveways.  Do these products work well?
    

RE:1507.0 

>    I notice that there are products that are used at "room temperature"
>    to repair asphalt driveways.  Do these products work well?
    
	I'm not exactly sure what you mean by room temperature, So I will
	assume you mean a reasonably ambient temperature higher than 60
	and lower than 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

	I have used a liquid sealer that comes with a nozzle/spout that
	you cut to match the cracks you are trying to fill.  Seal'N'Fill
	or some such was the name.  We filled the cracks with this stuff
	(and we had a lot of them) and then two weeks later sealed the
	driveway.  
	
	I believe the stuff has made a difference though it does need 
	touched up some three years later.  But considering our driveway 
	is old, poured on the ground type and I used to see it actually 
	heave in places during frost season I consider this a useful 
	half-life, it definitely has made a difference.

						Randy

    You didn't say whether you are repairing *large* or *small* defects.
    
    I tried to repair a couple of each type this spring.  I got some
    stuff at Sears that was an emulsion (this is water and tar homogenized)
    with sand in it.  I had to repair the joint between my driveway
    and the road.  I am on a hill and the running water was eroding
    the crack between the two.  I bought a gallon and slathered it in
    the right places.  It said to apply when there is no rain expected
    for 24 hours.  Real easy to do in New England.  Well it rained about
    24 hours later and washed the stuff out.  Undaunted, I tried it again.
    There was no rain for several days which gave the water in the emulsion
    time to evaporate out.  Several rains afterward had no effect. 
    I'd like to tell you how it is doing now, but the town repaved the
    road and covered it up (Thanks but a little late guys!).  Anyway it 
    seems to work if you are not on a hill with water running down within 
    a few days of application.  Is that a good summary?  This works for 
    relatively small problems.
                                                  
    For a larger crumple put in by the bulldozer when my lawn was installed
    I went to Bradlee's and Mrs. B suggested <something> 1000.  This
    stuff is marble chips (1/4" mesh roughly) in tar.  I wasn't sure
    this stuff would be much good.  I put it in a hole at the edge (no
    traffic) and in a couple depressions in the area I turn around
    in.  After it set for a week or so I sealed the area. It seems to
    be pretty much staying where I put it.  The stuff in the turn around
    area loses a pebble or two when the turning cars wheels contact it
    on a hot day.  It would probably be o.k. if you just drove straight 
    over it.  It has only been in since this spring so I can't give
    you a long term durability report.  
    
    Sakrete makes a blacktop patch but I haven't used it.  Hope some
    of this helps.

    Hello there;
      I have a problem and maybe some of you paving experts can help?
    I have a 3-family which is in Lynn Ma. which has a awful and torn
    up driveway. The enterance is ok but when you go into the back yard
    it is all dirt and full of huge holes from the rain and snow.  I
    also have grass with this dirt.  What I want to do is this pave
    the backyard in the spring and then the enterance the following
    year.  The money funds are limited so I have to watch out for the
    best price.  Would I save money if I fill the holes myself and do
    most of the prep work would the paving person charge me the same.
    The size of the yard is bellow and the back yard is marked with
    a x.    Also does anyone know of a good pavier around the north
    shore area.   What would actually be the cheapiest way to go?
    
        ------------------------- __
        |   xxxxxxxxxxx          | |
        |                        | 20 ft.
        |<------25--ft.----- ----| |
        |   backyard             | |
        |  xxxxxxxxxxxxx         | |                           
        |  _   |_________________| __
        |  |   |
        | 35ft |
        |  |   |
        |  -   |
        |      |
        |<7ft> |
        --------          thanks C.R.PERSON
    

    I think you are looking at either a patching job or a repaving.
    The patching you could probably do yourself in the warm weather.
    Repaving means that they tear out the old, put in a good base of
    bank run gravel, and put down two coats of hot top.  I think involving
    a paving company is not worth it for patching.  I'm not sure they
    will come for that anyway.  Material for patching can be gotten
    at a place like Sommerville Lumber.  The biggest expense for paving
    is the material itself.  Also, getting the old driveway material
    disposed of is a hassle because it's a hazardous waste.
    
    When I had a new driveway put in I had a couple of quotes for the
    job.  They varied a bit in price, so it pays to shop around.

    Blacktop hazardous waste? I always thought it was inert after the
    solvents evaporated. Here in colorado they use old blacktop torn
    up from road projects for erosion control and filling in old
    sand pits. Not more than a mile from my house they are dumping it
    by the truck load into a stream bed that is starting to undercut
    a road. Wonder if I should call the EPA on the state.
    
    
    -j
    

    Here in the North East blacktop IS a hazardous waste. Most petroleum
    by-products are. Roofing shingles fall into this category as well. 
    
    Charly

    I don't know why blacktop is considered hazardous. Sounds kind 
    of far fetched, but, don't we all drive on this stuff. This material
    is all around my neighborhood. My kids play ball on it. Mothers
    walk their carriges on it. I just put a new driveway in, etc.
    
    What causes it to become  hazardous?

    I believe blacktop is considered hazardous because its a
    petroleum-based product.  Also, waste is usually buried -- authorities
    are concerned that if the blacktop is buried, it can adversely impact
    the water supply (aquifer).  Same thing with people burying or taking paint
    and oil to town landfills.
    
    P.S. Don't jump on me about this -- I'm just repeating what I've
    read and heard.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm jumping on you. I was only interested
    because it was news to me. The reason you give is plausible but
    is very new to me. 
    
    -j
    

    	Tires are also considered hazardous waste.  I had to pay $1.00
    each to dispose of my old tires.  I consider myself an environmentally
    aware person, but I think things are getting out of hand with tires
    and pavement.
    				=Ralph=

The EPA recently (in the last 6 months or so I think) decided that 
petrolium based products are hazardous waste. This also means
that fuel oil dealers must have available if requested a Material Safety
Data Sheet for you home heating oil.

An old note, and the wrong season to boot, but what the heck.

The reason that it is not necessary to seal public roads is because of the
different technique used to build them.  The rollers used in highway
construction deliver several times the pressure/sq. in. than your average
driveway paver.  To verify this, take a close look at your driveway
and then go look at the street.  You will probably notice that the street
is far more densely compacted than your driveway and is thus more impervious
to water seepage.

    We've just bought a house that has a driveway and front walk in need 
    of resurfacing. The driveway is a hair longer than the length of
    two mid-sized cars parked end-to-end, and not much wider than the
    car. The front walk is about 20' x 18". Any guesstimates as to the 
    cost involved for resurfacing?
    
    Also - recommendations for a So. NH contractor?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

>    Any guesstimates as to the cost involved for resurfacing?
 
Do you mean other than the estimates in replies 1, 2, and 3 to this note? :^)
   
>    Also - recommendations for a So. NH contractor?
 
Not here.  Note 20** (See 2000).

Paul

   I'm about to seal my driveway and have picked up much valuable
    information from notes 944.1 - 944.32.  One question that comes
    to mind that hasn't been covered is how much does this cost.  One
    note alluded to the fact that those 5 gallon tubs of "black goo"
    don't go very far ...  I've got about a 20 x 40 driveway - assuming
    I go with "Sears Best" or a resonable facsimile, how much (approx.)
    $$$'s are we talking about??  My present driveway is in good shape
    (not many cracks, etc) but suffers from "oil-spots" diesease ...
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    - Chris
    

	re: .-1
	
	Last fall  I  put  down 6 pails of the black goo I got on sale at
	Caldor's for about  $8/pail as a first-time coat.  AS I remember,
	the application instructions warned  me  that  I'd  need 6 pails,
	but, like a fool, I  bought 5.  First-time application soaks into
	all the tiny crevices and cracks,  so  I'm  expecting to use half
	that amount on subsequent recoats.
	
	Don't bother with 'Sears Best'...after all, it  is a driveway and
	not your living room floor.  Just get  the  latex  stuff that you
	can thin with water if need be and you'll work out fine.  I can't
	believe  there  are  a  glut  of manufacturers all vying for your
	business  with  the 'best' sealer...I'll bet there are one or two
	plants producing  the  slop  and  selling it to anyone with their
	name on a 5 gallon pail. ;-)
	

The asphalt driveway in my yard is three years old.  In general 
the surface is in great shape but the edges are crumbling.  I 
believe it was installed improperly but such is life.  The 
problem is the surface of the driveway is above the grade.  The
asphalt is framed in by 1" x 3" untreated lumber which was left
in place permanently.  As you would expect the wooden edging is 
channeling water along it and washing out the edge of the 
driveway.  It's also starting to rot and is now missing in places.  
Since the asphalt is above grade the edges are crumbling from the 
lack of supporting 1x3 in combination with water erosion and
weight of vehicles.  

     		1x3                           1x3
     		 _                             _
     		| |---------------------------| |
----------------| |          asphalt          | |-----------------
    grass       |_|                           |_|       grass


Any ideas on how to prevent further destruction of my driveway?
Should I remove the remaining 1 x 3 edging?  Should I replace
it with pressure treated 1 x 3?  How about stones or fill 
instead?  There is an incline involved so erosion could be
a problem.  Hints, suggestions, options, etc. are all welcome


-JFK- (candidate for why did they do this note?)

    I was told by the folks who installed my driveway to bring the
    surrounding land up level with the driveway.  This is to prevent
    erosion, standing water, etc at the edges.  Water freezing is one
    of the worst agents on driveways.  Your second problem is that when
    a car drives on the edge, the force at the corner is crumbling the
    edge.  You need some surrounding earth (or crushed stone) to help 
    take up the load.
    
    My driveway is about 2.5 years old and I haven't had any problems 
    (except 10 wheeler dump trucks) with it.  It did take some effort 
    along the hill to get the grass to take.  Erosion always seemed to 
    be one step ahead.
    
    The installation was correct.  They just forgot to tell you to bring
    the land around the driveway up to grade.
    
    Stan

    When the furniture company delivered a matress we ordered, the truck
    left about a 12" diameter oil stain on our driveway and several
    smaller spots. I called the furniture company and they said to
    send them a bill for removal of the stain. The person I spoke
    with said there is a chemical which exists which removes (breaks
    down) oil stains. Has anyone heard of it or used it?
    
    Regards,
    
    Joe
    

    
    
    Try kitty litter. Spread it on and let it absorbe the oil. Then
    just sweep it up.
    
    Mike

    re -1
    
    Its already soaked into the tar.
    
    Joe

    
    Get a short bristle scrub brush and a bucket of hot hot hot water
    add spic and span go out and scrub oil spot.  You may have to scrub
    it a few times but with a lot of elbow grease you can get the stain
    out.
    
    	Don
    

    Has anyone heard of DIY driveway paving?  Anyone know a place in
    the MA/NH area that rents the machines that lay blacktop?
    
    It couldn't be too difficult.  Can it?  I know you need several
    people to stand around holding shovels and drinking coffee, but
    I think it only takes 1 or 2 to run the machine.
    

    
    	Well, if you twist my arm I might volunteer to drink a cup
    of coffee and hold a shovel while YOU do the work.  8-)
    

    Try dishwasher detergent
    

    
    
      I think to buy the blacktop you have to have some sort off permit
    to haul it around. You just can pull up in your f150 and say fill
    er up bud. Paving companies are by far one of the biggest ripoffs
    around. The money they make for doing a 50 foot drivway is pathetic.
    
    Brian who drives on gravel!!!!!!

                                                                     

A friend of mine has done it at several of his houses.  He's used STARPACK 
(discussed somewhere else).  He rented a dozer and roller and according to
him if you put on regular driveway sealer you're can't tell the difference.
He is VERY pleased with it.

-mark

    Concrete or asphalt??  I've had success spreading kitty litter to
    absorb the top layer, then pour Coke (drinking kind) and let it
    soak into the stain, then more kitty litter.  Made the oil/grease
    stains in my asphalt driveway go away.

    Grosseman's sells a cleaner that works pretty well.  After absorbing
    the majority of the oil with kitty liter or other such product,use
    a scrub brush and the driveway cleaner and scrub the stain.  hose
    off the suds and allow to dry.  Apply shellack to the stain let
    it dry and then seal the driveway.  This approach has worked very
    well for me in the past.
    
    Tom

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 2449.0                     DRIVE-WAY SEALING                     No replies
WFOV11::TRUSTY                                       14 lines  12-JUL-1988 19:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

       Per sealing driveways: Apersonal friend who was in the floor-
    covering business for +15 years ***STRONGLY*** advised me NOT to
    seal my driveway, as he was installing a new Armstrong "NEVER-
    WAX" FLOOR, in our kitchen.  Reason??????????????
     "That stuff, (sealer), will eat away at the fine, thin coating
    which makes this new floor a Never-wax type of floor."
       "It's only a very, very thin layer on top of an excellent
    piece of material"
        (PLEASE NOTE QUOTED STATEMENTS)
     Also, "The Armstrong People guarrentee this floor against just
    about anything, (emphasized), except the sealer".
     
      Take it or not, that is what I can contribute, as a DIY home-
    owner. 

    I don't have (or want) a no-wax floor, anyhow.  I also don't want
    to pay to redo the driveway again any time soon - cost me a bundle
    since it was in very bad shape; my driveway is very steep.
    
    I still want to know whether I should do the sealing job in blazingly
    hot weather, on a cool day, or when the driveway is in the shade
    - does it matter?
    
    Also, how important is it to try to remove oil drippings and other
    spots first, and what will remove them?  Both cars are normally
    parked on the driveway, so there are two areas where there are a
    lot of drips of various things.

    I'd also like to get my driveway dealed but there's about 8000 ft�
    of asphalt and I'm not excited about doing it myself bucket-by-bucket.
    I have seen trucks come here to MR3 and drive around spraying the
    stuff on the parking lots and wonder if a homeowner can have a quick
    job done - just spray the stuff and I'll take care of spreading
    to the edges, etc.
    
    Has anyone ever done this?  How about cost?
    
    Pete

    I also have about 8000 ft� of driveway, and I will be doing it myself
    this season.  Last year, when the driveway was re-surfaced, I
    investigated getting somebody to do the sealing.  I forget the exact
    figure, but it was WAY too much.  I'm thinking that it was around
    10� per ft�.
    
    It'll take about 30 buckets of sealer, at $5/bucket.  That's $150
    plus probably two days work.  I expect to save several hundred dollars.
    Not bad for two days work.  The work isn't really that hard.  Lots
    of peple actually PAY money to get a workout.
    
    Steve
    

    Gasoline drippings can damage ashpalt. That is why there is usually
    a cement slab at gas stations right near the pumps. I imagine oil
    will also eventually do some damage.  Not that your drive way is
    the only thing to worry about if you find your car leaking gasoline,
    but, you should also be careful when filling the lawn mover, snow blower
    chain saw, etc. 

    I think gasoline is about the only "car liquid" that hasn't gotten
    dripped on the new driveway - it is mostly oil, some transmission
    fluid, windshield washer fluid, antifreeze - the usual stuff you
    get when your garage only holds one car, and that only when you take
    everything else in there out.  How should I attempt to wash off
    this goo??   Is the driveway sealant impervious to more of the same
    kinds of spills?
    
    I know what you mean about gasoline spills.  One of the big patches
    I put in the old driveway was where one of my old cars had a gasoline
    leak and lost about 5 gallons of gasoline overnight - completely
    dissolved a large patch of driveway into black gravel; I had to
    dig up a lot of this (after the fire company came and flushed away
    all the gasoline - very exciting for the neighbor's children!) and
    put in several bags (I think 4 bags - 300 lbs.!) of blacktop patching
    compound - a wondrously fun job to do on a hot day (I packed that
    stuff into the hole with a tamper made of a piece of 6x6 and then
    drove the car over it - the patch outlasted the rest of the driveway
    - driveway was a cheap job, apparently).   Turns out that the car's
    fuel line had a small leak - probably would have gone undetected
    for a long time (like, until a fire!) except that for some reason
    the car got parked for the night facing down the driveway (toward
    the street) rather than up.

    
    I dug out and filled a couple of spots in my driveway where the
    oil deposits had all but destroyed the asphalt.  My technique was
    similar to an earlier person here -- (tamped it, drove car over
    it, etc...)  I put the Sakrete cold patch down about a week ago.
    Couple of questions:
    
    1.  The stuff is still pretty soft.  How long does it take to cure
    and harden?  Does it, or will it harden as well as "real hot mix
    asphalt"?
    
    2.  How long should I wait now before I apply the sealer/filler
    to the driveway.  The bag just says..."let it cure", but that doesn't
    really tell me much.  I really need to get the driveway done before
    this coming winter or I'm afraid I'll be facing the undortunate
    expense of a driveway redo.

    I realize this is a late reply but I have found that a de-greaser
    sold by Dupont, called Prep-Sol works great.  Just apply, brush
    in, and wash off.  This is a product made for the auto-body
    industry so you have to locate a store selling automotive
    paints and autobody supplies.  You won't find it in a regular
    automotive store.  There are similar degreasers sold by Acme
    and other brands.
    
    Although it is only available in gallons ( approx $10), it's
    well worth the price.  I use it for general purpose cleaning,
    including cars, motorcycles.  Does not affect plastic or rubber
    and does not leave a film. 

    My neighbor recently sealed his drivway with GROSSMANS brand of
    coal tar emulsion. He used on bucket of the crack filler sealer
    and one of the standard buckets of sealer. After the sealer dried
    there are some areas that need a second coat. Can he now put
    a latex or rubberized brand over what he has. I recommended that
    he put another coat of the coal tar emulsion over it and wait a
    few years. Has anyone ever put either latex or the rubberized over
    a coal tar sealed driveway, and if so how long did you wait, or
    does it really matter ???? 

    Not an answer, but another question!
    
    I finally did get around to sealing my blacktop, with the rubberized
    tar kind of sealer.  This after spending several days trying various
    things to clean off the oil drips (the stuff made by the people
    who make the sealant, putting sand on it to soak it up and then
    getting rid of the sand, and various grease-cutting liquid cleaning
    fluids) from both of our old cars sitting on their respective spots
    on the driveway for a year since the driveway was rebuilt.  (I actually
    had the advantage of one car being at the garage for more than a
    week after I did this messy job, getting *its* oil leak (and other
    problems as well) repaired - one of joys of owning old cars, but
    at least they are paid for...)  Anyhow, I guess I did not manage
    to clean all of the drips off, despite all the work (it was *not*
    the kind of weather, if there is such weather, when I really felt
    like getting down on my hands and knees and scrubbing blacktop with
    a scrubbrush - it was *incredibly* hot work!), because it has bled
    up through the sealant in places.  So, now what do I do??
    
    I'm tempted to leave it be, and at any rate I may have to since
    the temperature dropped about thirty degrees from when I did the
    work a couple of weeks ago so that it is now too cold to do another
    coat anyways even if that is the right thing to do.
                                      

    At my condo, the parking lots seem to need to be re-paved; there
    aren't holes, but the top is crumbling.  The board has been gathering
    estimates to re-pave, and the estimates vary a great deal.  Aside
    from the price, the contractors vary in whether they consider it
    necessary to pull out the existing asphalt before paving again.
    Does anyone know if there are bad consequences of paving over an
    existing parking lot/driveway rather than tearing it up first?  
    Thanks
    Beryl

    I can share with y'all what has worked for me.  For all but gasoline
    (which will destroy blacktop as we have read in other replys) I have
    found an application of kitty litter (ground in with the ball of one's
    foot) to absorb the still wet "stuff".  Sweep up the kitty litter and
    follow this with an application of Coke (the drinking kind) and
    scrub the area with a brush.  Rinse the driveway with water and
    apply (preferrably) rubberized sealer using the combination
    squeegy/brush applicator when the tempeture is 50 degrees or higher
    and no rain is in the forecast for 24 hours.
    
    Application should be early in the day - as in morning - when the sun
    will shine on the driveway and it helps to keep a hose handy to dampen
    the area to be worked.  I have also experimented with the roller
    applicator but found it "stretches" the sealer too much and had to do a
    recoat a few days later.  (Also, if ones driveway is on an incline,
    sealer with sand is preferred for traction.) 
                                                       
    Watch the papers - Sealer can be purchased for $10-$15 p/5 gal.
    pail and Bradlee's puts it on sale for around $8.              
              
              
              
              
              
              

>    Watch the papers - Sealer can be purchased for $10-$15 p/5 gal.
>    pail and Bradlee's puts it on sale for around $8.              

    And Spag's had it on sale for $6.88 /5 gal. pail.
    
    Cb

    ...Maybe a dumb question...
    
    How often should a driveway be sealed? Once? Every year? 
    
    	Mark
    

rep .46>
>        How often should a driveway be sealed? Once? Every year? 
 
    Depends whether its aeshetics or problem solving, I guess.
       
    I think that some people are trying to eliminate driveway cracking
    with sealer.  I my opinion, I doubt this would reduce that risk
    of cracks.
    
    I presume that driveway cracking is caused by one of at least three
    things:  
    		 1.) Too thin a base of asphalt   
    	 and/or  2.) Poor subsurface quality/preparation   
    	 and/or  3.) Heavy vehicle traffic
    
    I suspect that a milimeter of black goo will not bind a driveway
    together and eliminate cracks, if any of the above problems exist. 
    
    Aesthetics wise, it does a good job.
    
    Mark
    

You forgot:

	4.) Freeze/thaw cycling in the tiny cracks between the asphalt 
	    particles.

Which is the one reason that a sealer, which closes these cracks, is useful.
In a climate which did not experience frost, the sealer would probably not be 
useful.
    
Paul    

Another point, which I forget if I read in a book or in the depths of this
file, is that the asphalt becomes brittle over time as it loses its oils.
Brittle asphalt cracks and crumbles more easily under the weight of your
car.  This is less of a problem with highways because the heavy traffic
kneads the asphalt and works more oils up from the lower layers.  But
even so, I've seen city streets resurfaced with a new layer of oil --
in California, even, so it is not just a problem in cold country.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    
>    You forgot:
>    
>            4.) Freeze/thaw cycling in the tiny cracks between the asphalt
>                particles.
>    
>    Which is the one reason that a sealer, which closes these cracks, is
>    useful. In a climate which did not experience frost, the sealer would
>    probably not be useful. 

    The above point is probably the primary cause of driveway failure
    in cold climates. However, don't forget that your driveway requires
    a firm base to transfer the pressure to. If water gets through the
    tiny spaces in your driveway to the dirt base below, you can wind
    up with an unstable base. Then you get serious structural failure
    (wide cracks). Don't neglect sealing your driveway in warm climates!

    
    I live on an unpaved common drive shared by 3 homes, and we are
    now looking into what it would cost us to get it paved (the drive
    is approx. 400 ft long). I guess what I am trying to find out is
    if there is some way that we may be able to get this done cheaper
    than a "normal" driveway. For instance, would contractors do the
    job for a lower rate if it is being done for some sort of a co-op,
    or possibly would the town (or state ?) be apt to help give us some
    sort of break because it is not exactly 'private' (but certainly
    not public !)
    
    I imagine that this type of job is no different than a private job,
    but I thought that I would check and see if anyone has done a similar
    thing before. I suspect that if I have to sell a $5000+ job to my
    neighbors, the drive may never get paved.
    
    Tim Finan
    
    
    

    I don't know where you live but if its in Mass. it is against the
    law for the town or the state to expend money on a private drive.
    

    OK, it's time for me to do it too.  I had entered into a contract
    with Harvey Paving (pepperell,ma) last summer and they never
    go around to getting the job done before the cold weather. He had
    described it as a liquid with tar and sand and STUFF mixed in. (it
    was a major pain dealing with Harvey Paving- stay away)
    
    Well, now it's spring. I called Nashoba Paving (in Acton, MA) and
    they quoted me 21 cents per square foot. They described their
    treatment as 'two coatings of liquid emulisions'. They didn't seem
    to make it sound like anything more than Grossman's best.
    
    Well, that seems a little much, so here I go. 1600 square feet
    of DIY sealcoat.
    
    1 QUESTION:
    
    I have a seam where an older (3 years old) driveway meets a newer
    (1 year old) driveway. Essentially, the left 8 feet is old, the
    right is new. I would like to 'mix-in' some sand when doing the
    actual seam. The goal is to smooth out the rough seam. Has anyone
    done this 'mixing in' when using the 'black goop' ?????
    
    
    Mark

    
    Mark

    There is some "stuff" you can buy which is a little thicker than the
    sealers made by the Latexite company. It is intended for use as a
    surface filler rather than as a sealer. You apply it with a trowel. It
    will fill surface imperfections and low areas well. The "stuff" comes
    in two grades. You want the finer grade. The thicker stuff is basicly
    "cold patch". Don't use the standard "crack filler" in a 1 gallon jug
    for your purpose - it is for deep, but not wide, cracks 1/16 to 1/2"
    wide. The Latexite is a little difficult to find. Most places (in the
    Acton area ) carry cold patch and crack filler but nothing in between.
    I found my supply at Caldor in Burlington. 
    
    I'd also recommend that you use the jug of crack filler and fill all
    the cracks in the pavement before seal coating. It does a nice job of
    filling. The sealer won't really fill cracks well, even though the can
    might say so. You'll need to wait about a week for the crack filler or
    Latexite to harden up fully before sealing. Use the best waterbase
    rubberized sand-mix sealer you can get. Mix it well. Don't forget to
    remove any oil or grease from the pavement before sealing - it will
    prevent curing of the sealer. 
     
    I bought a wide "professional" squeegee when I did mine. It wasn't very
    useful since my driveway wasn't perfectly flat. Use one of the cheap,
    narrow, throw-away squeegees for best results. You should be able to
    get most of the stuff on sale in the next couple of weeks. 
                                  

         Isn't there some driveway crack sealer that comes in a
         caulking tube?  I have tried to use the gallon-jug stuff but
         it's just too thin.  I'd like to do a *really* good job as
         any future repaving will cost a ton of money (I estimate
         somewhere between 3500 and 4000 square feet).

         Pete

    I've seen something like that - I think at Somerville lumber.
    
    I used the gallon jug stuff. If the cracks are all the way through you
    have to apply two coats a day or so apart. The first seals the crack,
    the second fills it up. 

    
    	Just last week, I bought some stuff at Builders Square (I forget
    the brand name...) that is specifically for cracks greater than 1/2
    inch wide.  It is a trowel-in type mixture, so it must be pretty thick.
    If I remember the directions correctly, the recommendation is to make
    two half-each applications if the crack is more than 4 inches deep.
    I'll post a note here when I'm done applying it.
    
    							-craig

    Has anyone ever tried adding some fine construction sand to the
    5 gallon buckets of goop to give the liquid a bit more consistancy?
    
    Here's my plan. I have a 100 foot long driveway with a rough seam
    at the center running the length of the driveway. Not too rough,
    but enough that merely brushing on the black stuff by itself will
    NOT cover it and make it look smooth.  I tried adding some fine
    sand to the goop and 'troweling' it on. It seemed to work fine.
    
    My question: Should I continue this for the whole drive? Or is this
    going to deteriorate over time? Is it strong enough?
    
    Mark

    I've read things like "use kitty liiter with your strong heel to pick
    up oil messes"... Does this work for oil spots which have been there
    on the driveway for at least a year. I can see how the litter will
    absorb wet oil spots, but how do I clean up an oil stain approximatly
    3 foot by 2 foot in size which has been there for about a year?..
    Will the kitty litter or other store bought removers work?...Carl

    No, it won't work - at least, it didn't work when I did it, and neither
    did the various types of cleaners that were supposed to remove it (if
    you own two ten-year-old cars, drips on the driveway are sort of
    inevitable).  I finally just applied the sealer over the spots.
    
    Good luck!
    
    /Charlotte

>    No, it won't work - at least, it didn't work when I did it, and neither
     
    I'd try one of the cleaners anyway to remove as much oil as possible.
    I had a couple spots that didn't really come clean - the sealer
    took months to harden up in that spot.                  

    I used engine cleaner aka gunk to clean my concrete drive but it
    might soften an asphalt drive either way it does a good job.
    
    -j
    

    I used lots of laundry detergent water and a stiff scrubbing brush,
    worked well for me.
    
    
    

    
    Some of the companies that make the sealer also sell a cleaner for
    spots.  It's probably nothing better than detergent but who knows.
    Anybody ever try the stuff?

    Professional seal-coaters use a flame-thrower and burn it down.
    I think it re-cures the top of the asphalt in the process. They
    did it in my driveway and the spot came out a slight bit shallower
    than it used to be. It seems to have settled about 1/4" lower in
    that spot. The sealer dried hard there, though.
    
    Mike

    Latexite makes a cleaner and a primer for oily spots. Scrub and
    flush a few times with the cleaner and a stiff brush, then apply
    the primer and let dry. Worked well for me.

    >     Professional seal-coaters use a flame-thrower and burn it down.
    
    Did you have the Army Core of Engineers do you driveway ? (8-) 
        
    I used laundry detergent - It didn't work well enough. The pavement
    looked clean but when I applied the sealer I had problems.
    
    BTW, in a related story ...

    I had a couple of 1 sq ft areas that were badly cracked. I removed the
    old tar, filled with the large patch stuff, then filled with the
    Latexite Trowel patch for a smooth top coat, then sealed the whole
    driveway. The patches can't be seen and held up all winter with
    no problems. I'd recommend this method if you need to do some patching. 
    
    Then again, maybe I could have just used the large patch stuff, and
    cranked up the flame thrower to smooth it out ... 
                                                              

    
    We are in the process of getting estimates for a new blacktop job that
    will be applied over a well packed gravel road.  It works out to be
    6500 sq. ft.  I've seen reference to various thickness of blacktop here
    but who can give their experience as to how thick it should be.  They
    quote 2 1/2" thick for our private dead end road of eight houses.  Can
    anyone give us the "rule of thumb" for blacktop thickness for various
    road conditions?
    
    Thanks
    
    Don

    
    2 1/2" doesn't sound too bad.  I'm looking at a diagram of a typical
    local-class road in Pembroke, NH, which would require a total of
    3" - 2" base course plus 1" wearing course.  A contractor putting
    in a road in a similar situation as yours would be required to build
    to this specification, which of course also gets into details about
    gravel bases, width, etc.  So 2 1/2's not bad, but 3" might be better
    in the long run.  Keep in mind however that the most important thing
    is the condition of the base, not the thickness of pavement.  A
    lousy base will destroy 6" of pavement without a whole lot of trouble.

    
    -Mark

    I had our driveway resurfaced last October and this spring I have
    a lot of weeds pushing up through the tarmac.  Mostly wild violets
    and a few dandy lions.  I've just recently  sprayed  them with a
    weed and grass killer,  but I'm afraid there are more roots and
    seeds waiting in the wings to sprout.
    The contractor covered over the existing driveway with tarmac filler
    and a then a final coat.  I added to the size and width of the driveway
    where grass/weeds grew previously.  In these areas they dug up
    the top sod and laid down a few inches of inch and a half stone
    and gravel.
    
    My questions are:
    
    1.  Does this normally happen to expanded driveways?
    
    2.  Is the contractor usually held responsible or is nature nature?
    
    3.  Should they have dug deeper with the crushed stone?
    
    4.  How do I deal with it...just weed killer and run my car over
        the cracks?
    
    5.  Should I  seal the driveway now to prevent sun light and moisture
        from penetrating beneath it?
        
    
    
    I have been trying to get them to come out to my place and take
    a look at it with no luck.  The contractor was ACE Paving of Derry
    NH.  The receptionist told me that they are not responsible to 
    natural growth.
    
    Any  remedy and legal help will  be appreciated.
                                                      
    
    Thanks,
    Paul

    re.0
    There are two houses in my neighborhood which doubled (one tripled)
    the width of their driveway and neither have had cracking or weed
    problems. (one is three years old and one five years old).
    If your driveway has cracked and has weeds growing through in less
    than a year then the contractor did a shoddy job.
    Are the weeds and cracking in the area of the old driveway or the
    new expanded area? 
    You mention that he took off the top soil in the "expanded part"
    and put down "a few" inches of stone?  How many 4,6,10"?
    It doen't sound like he put enough of a base in.
    Did the contractor put a "base or binder" coat on the new area or
    just a "final coat" over the stones?
    How thick were the coats (binder and final) that he put down? He may
    have put just one coat down which some contractors do.
    
    Did you have any type of guarantee with the contractor?
    
    For reference when I had a "new" driveway put in, which is now six
    years old with no cracks what-so-ever. Size is about 30'x 32'.
    	My soil had a lot of clay content and the contractor dug down
        10 inches and refilled with "bank gravel" which he graded and
        rolled to the desired grade. He then put down the binder (or base)
        coat which I forget exactly the thickness of. Then the final
        finish coat went down.
    
    My thoughts, I'd take legal action against him since it sounds like he
    did a pretty shoddy job. If this guy does this to all his customers, 
    he likely won't be around long.
    
    More to follow later, (real work to do)
    
    Dave Carlson

    Dave,
    	
    	I know it sounds like a shoddy job, but I wanted to compare
    it with people that have "driveway" experience.
    To answer your queries;
    
    - Most of the cracks (being made by weeds forcing their way up)
      or actual surfaced weeds, are occurring in the expanded driveway
      area, but I also have a few crack in the old driveway area.
      The old driveway had settled quite a bit and was 70% cracked.
    
    - On the expanded sections, they lifted the grass sod and put down
      about 4 inches of 1 inch crushed stone and gravel.
    
    - On the new expanded areas, after putting down the crush stone,
      I believe they added around 2-3 inches of tarmac and might have
      topped this with an inch or 2, but I can't be certain.
                                                           
    
    I've since sprayed weed/grass killer on all the driveway sprouts
    as well as into all the cracks and it has killed all the new growth.  
    Next, I thought I'd try pushing the tarmac back by driving my 
    car over them or over a wood or metal plate.
    
    I may seek legal action through a letter from my lawyer, but I don't
    see  this coming to much.   I don't see how they can repair this.
    Do you think I could sue for the costs?
    
    Do you think a driveway sealer will help shield out sun and moisture
    to prevent the weeds from coming up again?
    
    Thanks for your info and tips,
    Paul
    
    PS.  Dave, do you still work for Sas?
                                           

    
    
    		My wife and I put in a new driveway last fall and as
    we were recently building up and seeding the edges I noticed witch
    grass coming right up thru the new tar at the edge only but in a
    few inches.  I was quite amazed with the power to pierce the tar
    as it is a nice driveway and we feel that they did a good job.
    
    	Gordon Ripley
    

    re.2
    Hi Paul, yeh it's me and I still work for Sas. Chaves still works for
    me as well. Now back to your problem.
    The problem is "rooted" quite literally in the fact that the
    contractor didn't dig out more of the soil which would have gotten the
    roots outa there. 4 inches isn't enough (personal opinion).
    To properly correct the problem would mean doing it over which unless
    you took the guy to court and won, doesn't sound like what you want to
    do. I'd still talk to a lawyer. Do you have any type of signed
    agreement/contract with the contractor?
    
    Now If you end up "living with problem" then doing the things you 
    mentioned will help.
    - Putting a board over the "raised areas" and driving over it to
      flatten is a good idea. It may not flatten it completely.
    
    - Before putting the sealer down get a bag of the "driveway patch"
      material (cold patch like the DPW uses) and pound it into the
      cracks before you seal it. You shouldn't rely on the sealer to
      seal the crack since it will be subject to "shrinkage and cracking".
    
    Don't do any "corrective action" until you have decided whether
    you will be taking legal action. 
    At least talk to a lawyer before making a final decision on taking
    legal action.
    Sue the guy for the cost of the job, settlement could be contractor
    redoing the job.
    
    Regarding other peoples experience,lets hear it Noters, there's a 
    lot of us that have blacktop driveways. How long did your driveway
    go before it cracked? If no cracks how long has your driveway been in?
    
    Dave, Who_thinks_less_than_one_year_is_far_too_soon_for_cracks
    

    Hi Paul,
    
    I use boiling water to kill off any weeds that dare stick their
    heads up in my tarmac. It is hard to believe, but it really zaps
    the roots, and over one spring you will get 99% of them, without
    the worry of pollution, especially if you have kids or pets playing
    in the area.
    
    Use of the driveway will close the cracks back to a near perfect
    finish.
    
    ps. Is this Paul of Rockmount fame ??
    
    Mike.

    Dave,
    
    Thanks for the legal advice.  I'll try to get in touch with my lawyer,
    but it may be tough.  He's getting married in two weeks.
    
    The weed/grass killer I applied worked well.  All the sprouts are
    gone and the cracks appear to give easily, which will make it easier
    to recess them.
    
    I was hoping somebody might give me a bit of feedback on how effective
    the driveway sealer is in preventing weeds/sprouts, by eliminating
    the sun's penetration.
    
    Hello Mike O,
    
    I miss Rockmount alot and am looking into places to ride in the
    area.  It's not as easy and free as Ireland.
    And now that I'm "Harry Home Owner" my time seems to  be taken up
    with a million and one projects.  Thanks about the  boiled water
    trick.  I had heard about it but was skeptical.  I'll try it next
    time.
    
    Cheers,
    PAul

>    I was hoping somebody might give me a bit of feedback on how effective
>    the driveway sealer is in preventing weeds/sprouts, by eliminating
>    the sun's penetration.
 
	Sealing will definitely be effective but not for the reason you cite 
above.  Movement of plants upward toward the sun is not actually a phototrophic
response, it's more of an "anti-gravity" response.

	Sealing will, however, prevent water penetration which will discourage
plant growth.  It also will prevent frost heaving, which would give openings 
for plants to grow into.

							--Mike

    RE: .56
    
>    Has anyone ever tried adding some fine construction sand to the
 >   5 gallon buckets of goop to give the liquid a bit more consistancy?

    	I used to seal my father's driveway every other year.
    I'd go to the nearest beach (Horseneck) and grab about a bucket
    of sand.  I'd mix it with the sealer, about 1 part sand to 4 
    parts sealer.  Then I'd apply with an old stiff broom (we kept
    one broom for just this purpose).  
    
    	I found that this not only sealed the driveway, but; 1) it added
    a rough surface so that the driveway wasn't as slippery when it
    was wet! 2) it filled most of the cracks in the driveway.
    
    	My folks moved out of the house last year, but the driveway was 
    still in fine shape after about 20 years.
    
    	Give it a try!
    		Ed

    Just an update. I finally finished my driveway sealing project.
    
    I used 6 buckets of sealer, mixed each at a 1:3 ratio (sand to sealer).
    This was used to smooth and level the center of my driveway where
    the two separate sections of pavement came together. Each application
    was thin, and I built it up to the desired level. The mixture was
    like working with Plaster. Very nice to use.
    
    After I had the above done, I let it sit for two or so weeks and
    then sealed the WHOLE driveway with another coat of the sealer.
    
    The outcome is the thing looks and feels like one piece! Very much
    worth the time it took.  Total cost: 13 buckets of sealer (rubberized
    selaer on sale for about $10 each, and several hundred pounds of
    PLAY SAND, maybe $15 in total)
    
    I recommend it as a DIY project...
    
    

	I've looked thru the directories and not found a specific area
	to address this situation.... please direct me if there's a better
	place.

	Colonial Gas Co. of Massachusetts replaced most of the Gas mains
	in Westford.  They were looking for a place to dump the used 
	street gravel.  I needed fill and sounded like a good deal.  I
	made it very clear I wanted NO hot top.  They agreed but made it
	clear there may be some fist size pieces...  OK agreed.  They gave
	me ~200 yards of fill.  At one point I went home during lunch to
	find about 1-2 tons of asphalt in the pile.  I located the street
	crew and notified the Supervisor asking him to remove it.  He agreed
	to do it before the end of the day.  Never heard from them again!
	No clean-up, no more fill!

		In all fairness.  Most of the fill is real clean and 
		I do need what they have given me.  However, I don't
		want or need any health or Agency problems.  There is
		a shallow well on the property for outdoor use and no
		"current" plans for domestic use.

	New house built... and installing underground utilities, have uncovered
	much more asphalt.  I've voiced my concerns to both the contracted
	street crew and the Gas Co. representatives.  Neither will pick-up
	the resposibility.  Delima!  if I contact the EPA what are the 
	ramifications:  Dig out all my backfill, (my cost)??
			Delays on installing my septic system..
				occupancy delays etc.?
	How can I persuade/pressure one or the other to take up their 
	resposibility, without dragging this out forever.  The house is
	nearing readiness, (less septic) and I need to move in within about
	30 days.

Thanks
Frank

    Sounds like a job for the attorney general!  With a cc copy going
    to the president and legal dept. of Colonial Gas! 
    
    That should spur fast action.
    
    

	Thanks for the tip.  I've spoken with the Assistant to the
	V.P. & General Manager, specifying I would like to keep this
	out of the media and Agencies.  He paused and admitted he
	wouldn't be able to get back to me 'til tomorrow morning and
	would do so with one answer or another.  The Gas Co.s stand
	is that it is the resposibility of the Sub. Contractor to
	dispose of those materials.  If the replies are less than
	positive, I may take your advise.  I'm still reluctant to tie
	this up in a bureaucracy, not that Massachusetts is one. ;^)

	Any other suggestions are certainly welcome.  I'll post the 
	results of this one.

Thanks again

    Aside: I read an article in my home town newspaper last week about
    this very thing. It seems one of the town fathers was up in arms
    over someone who dumped a load of dug-up asphalt in the back of the
    town cemetary.
    
    He called for an investigation and discovered it was *his*
    driveway that had been dumped behind the graveyard by the paving
    contractor.
    
    Edd 

    I know I am not answering your question but I wanted to tell you that
    I am in process of getting estimates to pave my driverway and I was
    reading the notes for contractors and noticed a few replies saying
    beware of ACE Paving in Derry, NH. (see replies 2019.22, 2019.24, and
    2019.44). 
    
    Good luck
    
    Ali
    

    Some afterthoughts.......
    
    - I very much disliked the spongy roller/plastic squeegee vs. the
      standard brush/squeegee.  The brush is much more effective plus
      it's faster than the roller.  The plastic squeegee is just too
      hard- no flex at all.  To boot, the handle is much too short.
      It may be comfortable for someone under 5'2".  (My back is
      killing me today).
    
    - The Latexite Sand Mix Sealer appears to be a good product, easy
      to work with (if you have the brush type squeegee!).  A nice feature
      is that you can add water to make it strrrrrrrretch a bit further.
      My driveway would've been only 2/3 done had I not diluted it.
      But, of course, the `jury's still out' on the long term effects,
      meaning, until I do it again next summer.
    
    Question:  Can that undercoating in a can be used on asphalt?
      Actually, what I want to know is will it dry completely so that
      it won't be sticking to the kids' sneakers and tracked inside
      the house.  The reason I'm asking it that the very end of the
      driveway can use a little aesthetic touch-up since I ran out of
      sealer before I can make it look pretty.  If not, any recommendations
      short of buying a whole bucket of the stuff?  Thanks.
    
    John

    To answer my own question about using car undercoating for driveway
    sealer touchup, the answer is on the can under `uses'.  Yes, it's
    listed as a driveway crack sealer, so I can assume that it will
    dry and harden to a point where kids' sneakers cannot rub it off
    enough to track inside.
    
    Also, I mentioned in my previous reply that a nice feature about
    the latex sealer is that you can add water to make it stretch a
    bit further.  Well, you can, but if you add too much water, it becomes
    very noticable when it dries.  The diluted part appears a lighter
    black, if you can imagine that.....
    
    John

    My contractor told me that I had 2 choices for the paving of the
    driveway. Choice one is a base coat and then a finish coat (~3000).
    Choice 2 is a special coat that is strong enough for a base, but smooth
    enough for a finish (~$1700). He said if I did choice 2, I should have
    a finish coat put on next year. Anyone heard of this method?

    Hi, I'm getting ready to seal my driveway. I was at Somerville the
    other night. I was looking for something to fill in the cracks. The 
    salesman there told me that all Trowel Patch was just sealer with fine
    sand mixed in. So instead of buying the Trowel Patch just buy the
    sealer and mix in some fine sand. If you need more than two buckets of
    Trowel Patch this method would be cheaper.

    
    I guess it's time for me to do my driveway.
    So whats the best goop to use ? Who has a sale on good goop ?
    
    my driveway is 1 1/2 years old (two summers) is it due ?
    
    ace
    

    I did basically that a few years ago, but used what the paver called
    "roadway" mix for the one and only coat.  The driveway is beginning to
    crack on the part of the circle that gets little traffic.  I'll
    probably get the finish coat next spring.
    
    If you go the one coat route, be sure they pave below the garage slab
    to allow room for the finish coat.  Also, don't be tempted to seal
    the first coat next year; the finish coat won't bond.  Luckily, I
    learned this from observation, not experience.
    

    Did we ever determine here in this note how often it is really
    necessary to do this particular job?  I can't see wasting time and
    money putting down more driveway-goop if one application is enough for
    the life of the driveway, but of course I don't want to have the
    driveway redone for a long time to come either - that was a real
    expensive prospect.
    
    /Charlotte

How often?

My ~25  year old black top driveway has NEVER been gooped.  It is not crumbling
nor cracking.  The black is not as black as if it were gooped, but then...

I guess I go with, "If it aint broke, don't fix it."

Dave

    
    RE: Crack filler
    
        I bought asphalt crack filler from Somerville Lumber that
    comes in a tube and goes into a standard caulking gun.  I will
    give this a try once the weather improves and let you know how
    it works.  Supposedly if you use a putty knife and mineral spirits
    while caulking it should spread and fill well, then when dry go
    over with the sealer.  (of course you still have to get the grass,
    weeds, and dirt out of the crack)
    
                                    Mark
    

i bought some crack filler at spag's by the gallon.  it is fairly liquid 
which i wanted because the cracks seemed bottomless and i didn't want to 
just cover the tops over with some thicker goop.

well now it appears that in some of these very deep places it has never 
dried at all.  i have a bottomless crack filled with liquid crack filler 
after two weeks...and will probably still have the same come spring.

any ideas on what to add next?  in the absence of brilliant suggestions i
will most likely just watch and see what develops.  in all, most of the 
cracks are filled nicely (it appears) and these trouble spots are only a 
few inches in length.

craig

    Try sprinkling some sand over the still-liquid crack filler.

	I have had some serious cracks in my driveway also. To fill them I used 
two different materials. For those cracks 3/4 - 1  inch wide I used cold patch.
I used a trowel and a hammer to force the material into the cracks. I then let
this cure for about a week and covered this with trowel patch. Some of these
cracks were an 1" to 1 1/2" deep. For those cracks 1/2" deep and 1/2" or less
wide I used trowel patch. Some of these cracks required two applications. You
may ask what trowel patch is. Well I asked the salesmen and he said it was a
sealer, with sand mixed in. The sand gives it a heavier texture.
	 I plan to seal my drive way the first warm day or two
we have this fall. That is if we have any warm days left!
	
	Hope this helps.
				Bob
				

    
    Does anyone know how to remove rust stains from an asphalt
    driveway ?
    
    rke
    

    Try a solution of oxalic acid.  Get it at a paint/hardware store
    as a powder.

    How about sealing it? That will cover just about any stain.

Re: .2

Not really - some kinds of stains (such as from oil) will eat through the
sealant.  Rust shouldn't be a problem - I'd suggest cleaning it well
with a product intended to remove oil stains from driveways, just to make
sure there's no oil mixed in.

			Steve

    What does one do if there are oil stains on the asphalt (from oil
    dripped from the car).  I have a couple of these which has soften
    the sealer coat and asphalt.  What can be done short of redoing
    the driveway.
    
    Ed
    

Re: .4

There is a product designed to remove oil stains from asphalt.  Sears
sells it (in amidst the driveway sealers, etc.), and I'm sure other places
do too.  You pour it on the stain, scrub it in, and hose it off.  Then
repeat.  You should do this before sealing.  You may find you have to
scrape out a section of dissolved asphalt and patch it.

				Steve

    Would pouring some Naval Jelly on the stain, scrubbing it in, letting
    it sit and then washing it off work? I've no idea what the effect may
    be on the blacktop, but the stuff removes rust real well.
    
    Edd

    
    I tried Naval Jelly and it didn't help.  I bought some Oxalic Acid,
    and if the weather is agreeable I will try it this weekend.
    
    rke
    

    I have a 3-year-old crushed stone (star-pack) driveway. The first year
    it was clear of weeds, the second year it had a few. Last year I had to
    mow it to control (the height) of the weeds. 
    
    I don't want to use weed-control chemicals because I have a young son
    around.  
    
    I don't think that boiling water (as suggested in an earlier reply for
    use in pavement cracks) is practical -- because of the relatively large
    area with weeds (10' x 15'). 
    
    Are there other effective weed control measures (other than pulling
    them)? One thing that occurred to me was to use table salt on the
    weeds.  I have town-supplied water, so there is no danger of
    contaminating wells.  Would salt work? Any other suggestions?
    
    Joe
    
      

    You could try burning them with a propane torch.  They'll probably
    come back up again, though.
    
    Erick

        Re: .5

>    We have a one-car wide driveway that is about 180' long.  (Let me know
>    if you want detailed measurements)  It came with the house, and the
>    former ^%#&%$^(^%&*) owners only had a "base layer" of asphalt put on.
>    The "top layer", which is made of finer stone, was never done. 
>    
>    We didn't know this when we bought the house but we figured it out
>    after a couple of years.

        We are currently in the same situation--only a base layer
        (coarse grained) because we bought the house from a builder
        in the process of going bankrupt.  I don't know how old the
        driveway is, but at least a year with no dents or cracks
        (except a patch of grass in a gap between drive and garage).

        Is a top layer necessary?  Is the lack of it a problem?

        Can I just seal the driveway and forget it?  [I noticed
        that .12 says don't seal until the final coat is down.]

        I would like to avoid the cost of adding another layer to
        the driveway, but I don't want large problems in the future.

        					Thank you,
        					B.J.

    The top layer is the finish layer. It is made up of finer material. It
    is less likely to break apart or give up pieces of gravel when
    scrapped.  You can live with the base layer only. Sort of like living
    with a house that was only primed, never painted.  If you seal it and
    later decide to put the top coat on, the contractor may want to rip up
    the base layer due to the presence of sealer, adding $$ to the cost. 
    
    If you just want to get rid of the weeds, buy some asphalt patch for
    that spot only. If you never plan on putting the top coat on, and plan
    on staying a while, I suppose it wouldn't do any harm.

re:             <<< Note 709.14 by GIAMEM::RIDGE "Trouble w/you is the trouble w/me" >>>
    
>                                                  ...  If you seal it and
>    later decide to put the top coat on, the contractor may want to rip up
>    the base layer due to the presence of sealer, adding $$ to the cost. 

      Maybe I'm learning something new, but I've never heard of a sealer
      causing problems for adding an additional layer of  paving.   Have
      you  actually  seen/hear of this?  I aske because we have only one
      layer of paving on our  drive.   Eventially,  as  time  and  money
      permit, we hope to get a "finish" top-coat.

    I also have just a base layer.  I had an estimate of $1100 and $1000
    from two different places.  My father had a new layer put on his
    driveway and he brought that guy up to look at mine.  Instead of just
    the 1" top layer, he wants to put down a 2" layer of coarse because of
    the shape mines in now, and a 2" top layer.  cost - $800.   I said
    "Do it".  He said "o.k. how about Friday?"  Gives me an estimate in 
    Tuesday and does the work Friday and is 2 to 3 hundred $ cheaper,
    great. 
    I saw my fathers and it came out real nice.  If you want the
    name, send me mail and I'll send you the information only AFTER he does
    mine and I see if I like it or not.  He's in the Lowell, Ma. area but I
    get the impression he'll travel a pretty good distance.  I'll ask
    Friday.
    
    Chris D.

    Yes, but not from personal experience. My neighbor had a new driveway
    installed due to settling, cracking etc. He coats his driveway about
    every year. They were removing the old driveway and I asked why not
    just put another coat on top. The answer was "Due to the sealer." Maybe
    there were too many layers. I did not talk directly to the installer. 
    Could have been more reasons than just the presence of sealer.  
                                      

    If I had to guess I'd say the latex or rubberizers in the sealers
    would prevent good adhesion between the top and bottom layers of
    asphalt.

OK, I just reread all of these replies and this is what I have decided to do:

It sounds like a 5-gallon can of sealer will do about 300 ft� of driveway.  The
job with the most detail showed a DIY cost of about 9�/ft� (I know he did two
coats, too, back in reply .69).

I had RegalSeal in Shrewsbury give me an estimate yesterday - we have two
driveways, one in front and one up the side into a large area in back.  The
small area was quoted at 1221 ft�, $134 for about 11�/ft�; the large area was
quoted at 4554 ft�, $341 for about 7��/ft�.  He did that because he didn't know
whether I wanted to do one or both, and when I said "both" he calculated the
whole 5775 ft� at 7��/ft� for a total cost of $433.

For that, they'll:

         o wire-brush and clean the whole surface,
         o remove any oil spots with cleaner,
         o seal those cleaned spots with primer,
         o fill the cracks,
         o apply Latexite with 1 lb. of sand for each gallon of sealer.

Compared with 9�/ft�, or about $520, I can afford to drink almost 7 cases of
beer while I watch!

I'll call RegalSeal when I get home.  Besides, what would I ever do with 20
empty sealer cans?!

Pete

    Hi,
    
    	We're looking into having our driveway widened and re-paved.  We
    got 1 estimate so far that put us into shock ($1800.).  What we'd like
    to do is repave a 50'x16' section and add a 50'x4' section (giving us a
    total drive of 50'x20').  The section that's there already hasn't been
    touched in the 4 years that it's been there.  The additional 4' section
    would require whatever prep is necessary for the ground and gravel etc.
    The soil there is VERY packed, but other than the first ~2 inches is
    all sand (if that matters).
    	Does $1800.00 seem reasonable for this work to be done?  The
    estimate was given 'sight unseen', and the contractor seemed a little
    vague about what he would do (how many inches of anything).  If anyone
    has an idea of what the current price per foot is, that would help us
    decide what we want to do as well.  Everytime we call someone, we get
    an answering machine, and they never call back.  argh!
    
    	If it matters, this is in Nashua, NH.
    
    	THANKS!
    	Patty

We had ours done about 2 years ago - it runs a little over $1.00 /sq.ft. for
the paving, not counting the prep underneath.  That was for two layers - a
binder coat and a finish coat.  Figure it this way.  You have 1000 sq ft total.
You don't need a binder coat over the existing driveway, just the finish coat.
The whole finish coat's about $600, give or take a little.  

Now you have the area next to the driveway that you're adding on.  The big
problem with that is that it's so small they don't really have room to work.
First they have to dig up that 4-ft. wide area - putting the existing soil 
someplace - and put down a base.  And they have to do this without totally 
trashing the existing driveway, although they can muck up the surface a little 
since they're putting a new coat on.  Then they can't use a whole truckload of
base material - 6" of base on that area is only about 4 cu yds, and the smaller
trucks hold close to 10.  Getting the base into the area is another problem.  
They can dump it in there with the front end loader, but they don't have any 
tools to smooth out so small an area, so they have to smooth it out by hand 
with rakes.  They'll be able to roll it no problem, home paver's rollers are 
almost always smaller than 4 feet wide.

Then they have to put the binder coat in that area.  Again it's a pain for them
because they can't use their truck spreader on such a narrow area.  They have 
to break out the wheelbarrows and rakes again.  So they charge extra for that.

Just simply to pave a 1000 sq ft. area with two coats would be a bit over 
$1000.  Given that it's more work for them to add on the 4-feet than it would
be to pave the whole driveway, I'd expect them to charge more.  You may get a
bid a bit less than $1800, but probably not a whole lot less.

Paul

    Well, we did get another estimate from DLB paving;
    
    $500.00 for the 4'x50' section alone. 6" of base and 1 1/2" of topcoat.
            Guaranteed for 2 years against ANYthing.
    
    $1200.00 for the 4'x50' section and to re-pave the 16'x50' section. 
    	    1 1/2" topcoat on the whole thing.
    	    The  4'x50' is guaranteed against anything for 2 years, the
            16'x50' section is guaranteed against cracks, but not against
    	    settling because he doesn't know what's under there and can't
    	    guarantee someone else's work.
    
    $1500.00 to rip up and dispose of the existing driveway and lay a
            50'x20' driveway, 6" base, 1 1/2" of topcoat, guaranteed 
            against anything for 2 years
    
    
    $1200.00 is still more than we wanted to pay right now, so we'll
    probably go the $500.00 route, and then maybe in a few years have the
    whole thing re-paved.  That, plus the fact that we need to have it all
    done by mid-October at the latest (he said it's too cold for finish
    layers after that), doesn't give us much time to save our pennies!!
    AND, we have 2 walkways attached that would have to have to be repaved
    or else we'd end up with a 1 1/2 inch height difference between the
    walks and the drive.  We'd nickle-and-dime-us to death.
    
    There's another guy coming out tonight - we'll see how he measures up!
    
    Interestingly though, for most of the points that .-1 made, Dana
    appears to have enough small equipment that he doesn't need to do much
    manually.  He said he has a Bobcat to move the stuff around.  The
    expensive part for the small section is a)getting the truck of asphalt
    cuz they're expensive, and b)paying another guy to help with the
    rolling.  And that's got to be part of it if you consider that he'll
    do 200 sq feet for $500.00, but 1,000 sq. feet for 'only' $1500.00 -
    PLUS dispose of the old driveway.
    
    He sure was nice to talk to anyway, and wasn't pushing anything, but
    explained what each option would buy us etc.  I was impressed!
    
    pw

    We had our driveway redone this April and were very impressed with the
    work done by Peter's Paving out of Hudson, NH.
    
    We had a 10'x39' driveway that was about 30 years old and in VERY bad shape.
    The old asphalt was removed and the area was widened to 22' (length stayed
    39') and a fair amount of soil had to be removed and the area releveled
    in order to widen from 10' to 22'. 
    
    The surface was then prepped with numerous passes with a grader and
    then 3" of crushed stone and sand was applied and leveled. A 1�" base
    coat of asphalt was applied, over which a 1�" top coat was applied. In
    addition to the driveway, both the front and back sidewalks were
    removed and replaced as well as a small (4' x 4') area in the backyard.
    
    The job took approximately 6� hours and the charge was $1600.
    
    Mike

    Well, we had another estimate done last night from (Harry) Peter's
    Paving.  He came and measured everything - turns out our driveway is
    46' long - not 50'   Hmmm...
    
    $500.00 - Add on 4'x46' 6-8" of crushed gravel, 1 1/2" base and 1 1/2"
    	      top coat.  He DID say that this is mostly handwork for him
    	      (different than DLB).  Guaranteed against any 'gross defects'
    
    $800.00 - Shim and resurface 16'x46' (The part that's already there)
    	      plus 6'x14' (back walk) and 3'x18' (front walk)for 1 1/2" 
    	      of topcoat, guaranteed against material defects
    
    $1700.00 - (roughly) to rip up everything and put a 20'x46' drive, 
    	      6'x14' walk with 6-8" of crushed gravel, 1 1/2" base, 1 1/2"
    	      topcoat.
    
    Harry was very nice and very professional.  He was very interested in
    making the job look as nice as possible, and last.  He measured out
    everything and gave me a written estimate, so I feel comfortable that
    the job will cost what he says.  He was a little leary of guaranteeing
    against 'anything' - but that's not to indicate that he wasn't ready to
    stand behind his work!!  He seemed very confident in his ability and
    the quality of work he does.
    
    .... now to decide what to do!
    
    Patty

What do you do with old asphalt?  Anybody have to get rid of any lately?

I have a portion of a driveway that I want to make lawn out of, and I need
to get rid of the asphalt that I remove.

Thx

Steve     

    re .7
    
    Well, when I had the same problem, I just dug a hole, buried the broken
    up asphalt and used the dirt left over from the hole to fill in where I
    took the asphalt from.
    
    Seemed like the easy thing to do at the time.
    
    Dave

    re .9
    
>    Seemed like the easy thing to do at the time.
    
    It's easy to dump just about anything you want in a hole in the
    ground, but doing so can have the rather unpleasant side effect of
    contaminating water supplies. You don't have to look far for
    examples.
    I think the author was looking for where one *should* dump asphalt,
    not where one *can get away with* dumping asphalt.
    
    John

OK, why is asphalt considered hazardous waste?  How does it get into the
water supply?

    Asphalt is a petroleum product.
    Petroleum can make its way to underground water just as easy as any
    other chemical.
    
    John

    	So does that mean that all of the asphalt on the roads is already
    contaminating our water supply??

    re .13
    Where were you when I went through this! I knew there was a
    contradiction, but it didn't make itself apparent at the time.
    Well heck, if I had dispose of it properly, everyone should too!
    
    John

    So, lets see, I need a new driveway, but I also need some fill to
    raise the level. If I add layers of asphalt I am burrying the old
    driveway uder the successive layers. Is this illegal?
    
    What if I needed to raise the level 12 inches, and I use a gravel and
    used asphalt mix, then add my rough coat, and top coat? Is this
    illegal? 
    
    Will either of these damage the water supply?
    
    What is proper disposal? 

re >                       <<< Note 957.10 by WUMBCK::FOX >>>

>    It's easy to dump just about anything you want in a hole in the
>    ground, but doing so can have the rather unpleasant side effect of
>    contaminating water supplies. You don't have to look far for
>    examples.
    
    What difference is there if the asphalt is on top of the ground
    (exposed to all the elements) or slightly under the ground (exposed to
    ground water)?  We are not talking about PCBs here, we are talking
    about tar, ground glass and rocks.  I seriously doubt that the small
    amount of asphalt I moved from the driveway to 2" under the back lawn
    will affect the water table any more than if I left it on the surface.  
    
    Then again, the black top absorbed and held heat during the day and
    radiated it back in the evening.  Take away the asphalt and you get
    cooler nights, more dew on the lawns (and not in the air), lower
    overall atmosphere temperatures due to energy depletion with the water
    dropout, lower greenhouse effect, less plant growth, less root growth,
    lower water retention in the soil, lower resulting water
    table.....Hmmmm, don't bury your driveway, you will contribute to the
    water shortage.
    
    glad it's Friday.....
    
    Dave
    
    

    Asphalt is not a hazard if in the ground. Lets apply some
    common sense here. 
    
    Marc H.

I think that the problem is that if you get a huge amount of asphalt all 
together, bury it under a landfill and subject it to great pressure by piling a
lot more fill on top of it, then some of the petroleum distillates can leach out 
of it into the ground water.  I don't think that a driveway's worth of asphalt 
dumped in a hole just under the ground is going to be any more dangerous than a 
driveway sitting on top of the ground, but for the most part driveways are not 
disposed of that way - the asphalt is carted off to somewhere where it is 
collected into the larger lumps that can become hazardous.  It was easier for 
the government to classify it as a hazardous waste and just not deal with the 
small number of spot-location disposals.  This makes you technically a criminal 
if you bury a little asphalt in your yard - it's not clear that it makes you 
morally a criminal.

Paul

      I  think  the  following statement is WAY of base -- but then I've
      been wrong in the past!  My thoughts follow; I'd like to  see  the
      person who made the statement defend it, if possible.
      
>    You may see top-coating a driveway as legal, but it surely is
>    immoral.

      Are  you  suggesting that the federal, state and local governments
      are being "immoral" when they re-pave 10s, maybe 100s of thousands
      of miles each year by putting new asphalt over the old?

      Are  you  suggesting  that paving a driveway with a first layer of
      asphalt with course stones and  a  second,  top  coat  with  finer
      stones is "immoral"?

      Are  you  saying that using a sealer to top-coat is "immoral" even
      when it uses much less resources and avoids disposing of  the  old
      pavement that becomes hazardous waste?

At the risk of interrupting the discussion on asphalt morals, could someone
name an asphalt recycler in the Central Massashusetts area?

  Steve

    RE: .21
    
    Trimount in Ashland,MA does asphalt recycling.  Not quite "central"
    Mass though.
    
    -al

I'm pretty sure there's a Trimount in Shrewsbury, on route 20 just west of the
20/140 intersection.

    If you contact Trimount (or other company) to recycle your asphalt,
    do you pay them to take it off your hands? or do they pay you since
    they recycle and then make money from it? or is it a breakeven
    transaction?
    
    Thanks in advance...

    The way I understand it (from the guy that redid my driveway) is that
    you pay the company (per ton) to take your used asphalt (since it's
    considered hazardous), they turn around and use about 25% of it per
    new batch and they sell it as new.  THEY win both ways.  Depending on
    how much they have on hand, they make take it without charge.
    
    -Bob

I'm looking at widening an existing driveway, to give a parking space
close to the road.  The old driveway is "worn" (cracks from tree roots,
pothole fixing), but seems solid.  The spot to be paved appears to be
a sand pit, probably with soil underneath.

I know very little about asphalt paving.  Can you give me an idea of
what I want done, and how?  Two contractors have mentioned laying gravel
for drainage.  How much needs to be laid, so I know how to compare them?
How thick do I want the asphalt?  For the new section, and to seal/beautify
the existing section?

Also the road has been built up over the years, and my driveway now has
a little hill going up.  Is it reasonable to get the driveway thicker
down there to make the hill more gradual (I guess I'm asking how think
the asphalt can be laid without problems I wouldn't think of).

Thanks,
Charlie

I had my driveway in Northboro re-done about four years ago. One of the problems
we almost faced was that at first the contractor couldn't find a recycler
willing to accept the old asphalt. (In fact, when my neighbor tried to contract
the company to re-do his driveway, he was turned down for that very reason.) Of
course, one of the main reasons for requiring recycling is that it provides an
incentive to minimize the hazardous waste. Every little bit adds to the problem.

I don't think adding a top layer of asphalt contributes significantly to the 
ground-water pollution problem, since you don't add any additional surface area.
However, if you break up a driveway and dump the waste, you have increased the 
exposed surface area thousands of times, and that makes it MUCH easier for 
contaminants to leach out into the soil.

Dave

    I just used the TAR PATCH that you can buy in a bag.  I built a small
    berm to re-direct some water on my driveway.  It has been two weeks and
    the tar has not hardened.
    
    Does anyone have any experience with this ?  Does this stuff eventually
    harden ?
    
    Thanks
    
    Bob O.
    

    I have used several bags of the stuff to fill holes in my driveway and
    it requires you to tamp the stuff down well. I used a 4x4 to tamp it by
    hand and then drove over it with my car - slowly. If you've watched
    road crews filling pot holes, you may remember seeing them drive the
    truck over it too.
    
    Since it has been  2 weeks, the bonding stuff may have dissipated or
    evaporated and you may have to remove it and start over. I think the
    key is to tamp it down well.

I used to use the stuff on a former summer job.  We used to call it "cold 
patch".  It's great for just patching holes, but I don't think it would work 
well at all for constructing a berm.  This is also what they use in our town
for patching holes.  It only holds together minimally.  It relies on the fact 
that the standard use of a road tends to push it down into the hole, rather \
than pick it up.  Ever drive over a fresh patch that only been pressed into 
place by some guy with a shovel?  It sticks to the tires and gets tossed all 
over.  We used to use a bit of sand to help prevent it from being pulled up
by traffic before it was comressed.

    
    RE: .0
    
    How hot has it been where you are?  Two weeks is not a long time for
    tar to harden.  My sister had her driveway done earlier this summer and
    they were told to stay off it for a month.
    

I agree with the others who said that "cold patch" is not appropriate for
building berms.  I recently filled a hole in my driveway with asphalt
patch that comes in a can.  It's a somewhat wetter version of "cold patch",
but it doesn't stick until you compress it, then the water (or whatever)
oozes out, the particles compact, and you have a smooth surface.  It
hardened in a day.

			Steve

re .3
>    How hot has it been where you are?  Two weeks is not a long time for
>    tar to harden.  My sister had her driveway done earlier this summer and
>    they were told to stay off it for a month.

I hope they didn't pave your sister's driveway with cold patch!  If they did,
they should stay off it until the law suit is resolved.  The tar used for
major paving work is usually hot, and significantly different than the cold 
patch you buy by the bag.

    How many sq feet does the average 5 gallon bucket cover ??? Was the
    previous reply close with the estimate of 300 sq ft ??? 
    
    Just trying to figure on how much I'll be needing for covering my
    approximately 1400 sq ft driveway.
    
    Thanks,
    Paul C.

I was just looking at a bucket in the store of "Airport Grade" sealer
and it said 500sf/5 gallons.  I don't know if lower grades give less
coverage or not.

				Steve

    As usual, your mileage will vary with the consistency of the sealer and
    the condition of your driveway. We (he!) did our 2400sq.' with 6.5 cans 
    of a sealer that claimed to require 8. This, of course is after I tried 
    to convince him we needed 9 cans-- luckily he did not pay attention,
    and the store cheerfully refunded for the spare can!(:-)  When we did the
    driveway the first time, it took 11 cans. This sealer was the "good"
    stuff, the second product was the next step or two down. 
    
    So, if the drive has been sealed at least once before, you'll probably
    get 3-400 per can.
    
    Now we have half a can of sealer hanging around... Guess we'll store it
    next to the air shredder and the left handed rake.
    
    Lynn

Personal experience is:

	1) it takes about twice as much sealer to do a driveway the first time.  
	   (have to fill all those crevices)

	2) it depends on the driveway temperature.

	3) it depends on how much you brush it out.

So the answer is 'yes'.  If the driveway is not too hot or too cold and you 
brush it out well and it is not the first time, 300 sq. ft. is probably about
right.  Just do what I do: get plenty, make a mess, get cleaned up and take the
extra back to the store.  You don't want to have to go back for more half way 
through!

Stan

    Thanks for the inputs re: coverage. I think I'll buy a bit on the high
    side, as -1 mentioned, I don't want to stop half-way through to go
    buy more, and can return any unopened/unused pails.
    
    Paul C.

    Probably a dumb question, but what the heck...  Does sealer get too old
    to use after a period of time?  What it is, is I bought a couple of
    containers about a year ago and never got a round tuit.  I'm planning
    on sealing the drive on the next nice weekend, and I'm just wondering
    if the year old unopened sealer is as good as "fresh" recently stocked
    sealer.  I would think that it would be just fine, just wondering if
    anybody else has any experience with this...
    
    Thanks,
    John

    I had saved half a container of extra driveway sealer and when I opened
    it a year+ later it had separated into tar and water.  The tar glob
    on the bottom of the container was too thick and did not remix with the
    water.  I ended up getting rid of the stuff which is another story
    since my town/trash hauler considered the half a can hazardous waste.

    I am not sure wether this is the correct location for this note or not,
    if not please feel free to move it. 
    
    My wife and I just finished building a garage and want to have a
    driveway installed. The question we have is why do people use ashfault
    (sp) instead of cement. 
    
    We recently moving here from Michigan and all we ever used before 
    was cement. It lasted 10-15 years. The weather ranged from the 
    high 90's to -10.
    
    Thanks
    Ken

    Re: .96
    The sealer is an emulsion in water.  I rather suspect your bucket
    of sealer froze and "cracked" the emulsion so the tar precipitated
    out.  Freezing is a classic way to un-emulsify something.

    
    re: -1.  Yes, I let a couple gallons freeze myself when I failed to get
    around to doing the driveway in the fall as I planned.  If it has 
    frozen it's worthless.  If you've had it in the house, however, it
    should be perfectly fine after only a year of storage.  
    
    /Jeff

    Actually it's not uncommon to buy driveway sealer with it separated
    into water on top and tar on the bottom.
    
    Just take a big strong stick (and a big strong arm) and stir and stir
    until you get a nice smooth consistency.  You can even add water to
    thin it down.
    
    -al

    Re: .95
    John,
    Just did exactly what you are asking about. I bought 5 cans of Premium
    sealer last year but didn't get to use it. Used it this year and
    found that the tar had settled to the bottom and it was quit difficult
    to stir. I mixed it up and used it, probably could have used a little
    additional water.
    
    I ran out and had to go to the store to get another can of the same
    brand/grade. Found that the new can was much easier to mix and was
    much more watery and easier to apply that those I had stored for
    a year.
    
    Finished job looks good with not much difference in the way the
    old and new sealer looks.
    
    Ray

    Thanks.  I came real close this past Saturday to getting that elusive
    "round tuit" however, by the time I finished cold-patching several
    areas of my driveway (as well as other much needed prep), I'd run out 
    of energy and daylight, and close to running out of home_work juice
    (ie. beer)...  :-)
    
    Good question about the lack of cement driveways here in New England. 
    A neighbor, who also relocated from Michigan, asked me the same
    question (to which I had no reasonable answer).  The only thing I can
    come up with is cost.  Although I don't know for sure, my guess is that
    the asphault(sp?) is much cheaper (initially anyway)...
    
    John

    
    
     I just did my driveway using the "Airport grade" Latexite and got
    about 60 sq. ft. of coverage per gallon. Four 5 gallon pails to do
    approx 1200 sq. ft. I bought 5 pails and just made it with four.
    Somerville Lumber took back the unopened pail no problem. This was 
    the first time the driveway was ever sealed.  Easy job.   I expect the
    next time I will get an easy 100 sq. ft. per gallon or better.
    
                                                                   Bill     

    
>     I just did my driveway using the "Airport grade" Latexite and got
>    about 60 sq. ft. of coverage per gallon. Four 5 gallon pails to do
>    approx 1200 sq. ft. 
    
    This must be a typo, yes? 4 gallons over 1200 sf gives you 300 per.
    
    Edd

    re: .104
    
    Four 5 gallon pails equals 20 gallons total.
    
    -Dan
    

    Yep, you're right...I get the Golden "Duh!" Award...
    
    Edd

I am looking at a piece of land where I will have to put in a driveway
from 1200 to 1500 feet. Before I make an offer on the land I am trying
to figure out what it would cost to put in the driveway. I don't need
and estimate, I just need a rough idea. Half of the driveway would
go thru a mowed field the othe half would go thru typical New England
woods with hardwoods. The terrain is fairly level, with only 20 feet
variance. It would be a gravel drive.

Has anybody done this? What was the cost?

Thanks,

Harry

    Four years ago, we got several estimates of roughly $10/linear foot of
    drive. Included were removing topsoil and putting in 12"-18" of road
    gravel.
    
    We took down the trees but the driveway person removed the stumps.
    
    John H.

My parents just had an extension put on their existing gravel driveway in VT.
This new part is about 1/4 mile and has quite a steep rise towards the end.
The lower half is fairly flat.  If I remember correctly, the final price
was in the $15-$17k range, but that included LOTS of fill to make the grade
towards the end more gradual.  It also included cutting and removing trees
the whole 1/4 mile.

Dave

  Are there any special considerations when you want the drive to go right up
to the house?  In Arlington it is common for two families to pave both sides
of the house to allow seperate drives for each unit.  This sometimes uses up
all of the side yard on the lot.  We are looking at a house that has a partial
second drive:
                      sidewalk
                         v
                 paved     grass
	|	     :	|_|  |
	|	     :	|_|  |
	| 	     :	|_|  | house
	|	     :	| |  |

 	neighbors  
	drive        ^ 
		property 
		line

We would like to pave the strip that is now grass, without covering
the sidewalk.  It is definately under 100 sq. ft..  It sounds like the
grass would have to be dug up, gravel layed down, and then the pavement.
Are we going to have trouble getting someone for this small a job?
	Linda

	When is the best time for the first seal application?

	The paver guy said not to seal for a year.  Seems optimistic to
	me, what with all those ice particles mushing around inside the
	new asphalt all winter.

	Regards, Robert.

Never, if your driveway is of decent construction.  Otherwise I'd wait at
least three years.  What ice particles do you think will be in there?

		Steve

    I heard the rule of thumb of when to seal coat a new driveway
    is when water no longer beads up (from the tar on the top of the
    asphalt).  That's probably about 2 to 3 years depending on how much
    it is driven on or how much to top surface is abraded.
    
    -al.

	Re preceding: Thanks

	Re 108: "What ice particles do you think will be in there?"

	I can't give you a rigorous answer.  No ice particles have formed
	yet, either on top of or inside the asphalt.  However, nobody can
	persuade me that Nature hasn't spent 4 billion years carefully
	machining tiny ice particles solely to commingle them in my
	driveway's asphalt, just to be annoying.

	So would I hurt the driveway if I seal it after 6 months?  Or would
	I merely expend effort needlessly?

	Bob D

Re: .110

I think you will be:

	1.  Expending needless effort.
	2.  Expending needless money.
	3.  Making sure that you'll be locked into an endless cycle of
	    having to reseal every couple of years.
	4.  Making your driveway slippery.

Now if the driveway was built poorly, then it will heave and crack in the
winter and you will then have to seal it to prevent things from getting
worse.  But I'd wait until I saw some signs that the driveway was developing
cracks before starting on the sealant treadmill.

				Steve

    How does sealing a driveway start the endless loop?
    
    Edd

Once you've sealed it, you'll have to keep resealing every few years or else
it will look awful.

			Steve

    From the research that I have done reading notes, talking to installers
    with years of installation experience, etc., there is no evidence that 
    sealing a driveway is good or bad.  Basically, to sum all of the info
    that I have received, and as the author of .108 has mentioned, if the 
    driveway was installed with the proper base of correct pre-paving
    material, on virgin soil, and the correct layering of asphalt, no
    sealing is necessary.  If the driveway begins to crack, then one of the
    previouse mentioned items was not present.  
    
    Once you begin sealing, you do so every few years.  This is done more
    for the appearance, then anything else.  Sealing has nothing to do with
    preventing cracking, or other destabilizing effects of the driveway.
    

    
    One thing I found when sealing my driveway is that snow/ice melts
    better. It's probably due to the fact that it's darker and absorbs more
    heat from the sun. The first year I did mine, I noticed a BIG
    difference with snow/ice melt.
    
    Mike

    re:- That may explain why 90% of the driveways are sealed in the
    fall. I always wondered why not sealcoat in spring so it looks good all
    summer long.
    
    I would like to comment to a few replies back in regards to sealcoating
    only looking good and not providing protection. I would suspect it would 
    depend on the courseness of the hardtop used (whether it was large or 
    small stones) and the temperature at which it was rolled at. Very hot
    hardtop rolls smooth were as cold or cooling hardtop leaves a very
    course surface. 
    
    A course surface allows freezing water to penetrate the small voids
    which will cause breakup of the hardtop. Sealcoating will fill those 
    gaps normally filled by water, and minumize this breakup.  Yes it may
    be a little slicker in winter, but I would rather purchase a good set of
    snowtires every few years compared to watching a multi-k dollar 
    driveway go to waste.
    
    Just my $.02, Dave'
    
                                 

I always thought that 90% of the driveways are sealed in the fall because that's
the longest you can put off that gawdawful job before it gets too cold to apply
it!

:-)

Elaine

    
    No... it's because that's when all the stores put their leftover stock
    on sale.
    
    BTW, any comments on using them newfangled rollers to apply the sealer,
    vs. the oldfangled squeegee?
    

	    Had a guy pull into my drive yesterday with (Mumble) Asphault
	splayed on his truck's doors.  Guy says he can top my cracking
	drive, cheap.  I'm thinking, cheap will still be too expensive...
	so I ask, "How much?"
	    "Well, a 40 foot would run about $500.  Yours is about 60
	feet.  I'll do it for $600, and that's before I even measure it."
	He went on an on in a high pressure speal.  Said he had guys he
	had to pay whether they worked or not so we'd be helping each
	other out.  He'd do it this afternoon.  Etc., etc.
	    I tell him I have to clear it with the wife.  I couldn't get
	in touch with her.  I tell him I'm not going to lay down 6 bills
	without talking to my wife.  Then he was stupid enough to ask me,
	"Are you a man?"  Unfortunately for him, I'm pretty secure in my
	masculinity.
	    So, did I miss out on a good deal?  I was tempted but he had
	that used car salesman air about him (sleezy) that I've come to
	associate with "too good to be true."  

					Tim

�        <<< Note 709.19 by JUNCO::CASSIDY "Aspiring conservationist" >>>

	You were smart to refuse.  Whatever is causing your current driveway
	to crack would soon have cracked this guy's new topping.  Driveway
	problems cannot be cured from above...proper foundation depth, 
	materials and base are the keys to a longlasting hot-top job.

	--Mike

	That price is about right. You should be able to call just about anyone
and get them to do it for that price.

    With my driveway over 30 years old, there are some rough spot  to be
    repaired. A few rocks heaving to the surface. I addition to removing
    the rocks, he will remove the walkway, a 15' x 10' section between the 
    house a garage removed, and remove and correct an area of breakup at the 
    foot of the driveway do to poor drainage. 
    
    It will cost me $1300 in cash as a friend discount, and be done in a
    day. Guarenteed for 5 years. 
    Can't beat that with a stick...so I'm taking it. Will be done for next
    spring.
    
    Dave'
    

    Hand over $600 to some guy who just drove in off the street?  No way!
    

    Yeah, this is one of the more popular scams. A guy pulls up and says
    he's doing a job in the neighborhood and he might as well do yours for
    a good price because he's there anyways, etc. This is commonly used for
    roofing , siding and driveways. Sometimes extends to such small things 
    as adding a room to your house. These are scams and should be avoided.
    One of these guys pulled up to my house this spring trying to sell us a
    driveway deal. No markings on the truck, etc. I told him no and he
    slowly drove up the street to see if there was someone he could con. I
    called the local PD and informed them of the situation. 

	    Mr. Driveway Paver also proclaimed a 1 year guarantee.  One 
	year sounded to me like a pathetically short duration to determine
	the quality of a driveway job.  I'll probably wait until my drive
	gets really bad and then have it replaced.  I figure I have several 
	years until it reaches that point.  Maybe I'll be rich by then.  
	 Maybe not.

					Tim

	Why are you calling this a scam ? The only thing that may be wrong is
you think your getting a great deal when in fact, any local may give you
the same price. You don't pay until the job is done and it's pretty obvious that
a driveway was put down or not !

	There is nothing illegal about these folks other than they may not have
any liability insurance against damage to your property.

	
	-Steve-

    re: .26
    Because a lot of the guys who operate that way come in, do a quick
    job with minimal site preparation and give you a driveway that
    looks like a million bucks but stands up very poorly.  You may pay
    for a $600 driveway and get $200 worth of work.  The guy may have
    been totally legit, but so many shysters have used that exact same
    ploy ("I'm in the neighborhood, it looks like you could use a driveway,
    I'll give you a good deal") I'd never go for it.
    

    I caught something on the news about this recently. Every few years
    these guys come around with the same scam: "Doing neighbors driveway,
    I'll do yours for a great price."
    	They usually spray god-knows-what black stuff on your driveway,
    (and usually your grass and shrubs, and house etc...) Sometimes that
    stuff is actually good for your driveway, sometimes it is nothing more
    than used motor oil.
    	I'm surprised that they only offered a one year guarantee! With the
    kind of likelihood that you will ever see them again, they might just
    as well have offered a 99 year guarantee.
    
    	Motto: at the very least stick to people that have a permanent
    address. If you have never seen or heard of these people before,
    chances are you will never see them (or your money) again either.
    
    

O.K., maybe it's not a scam.  But at best, the guy has
already lied (I'm giving you a great price) and taken a
potshot (questioning masculinity) trying to pressure him
into a sale.  When it looks like a scam and smells like
a scam...

    
    I will NEVER buy anything from someone who's selling door to door, or
    who calls me on the phone. If I want/need something, then I'll make the
    call. There are too many scam artists out there to know who is or isn't
    one. You have a much better chance by picking a random name from the
    phone book.
    
    Mike

It's a scam all right, and the proof is that he wanted to do it the same day.  
Contracts for home improvements can be cancelled by the homeowner for 3 days,
unless they are signed at the firm's business office.  So no legit business
will start home improvement work until 3 days after they get you to sign.
The reason for the law is precisely because of this sort of pressure tactic.
Some legit businesses use the "we'll be in the neighborhood" technique, but
in my experience they call in advance to say the day they'll be around --
and they have a longstanding address that you can check up on.

	Luck,
	Larry

While having some concrete work done at my house, some of the wet concrete
got splattered onto my asphalt driveway.  I have tried wire brushing, but that
doesn't help.  Will oxalic acid remove it?  If not, what else will?  Or do
I give up and seal the driveway (something I'd like to avoid as it's lasted
26 years without sealing so far)?

			Steve

Is it 'lumps' (now rocks) of concrete or splatter of the water from wet cement
so that it's a white stain?

If it's lumps, you'll have to chisel them or something similar.

If it's a white stain, maybe full strength muriatic acid can take it off.
Be careful, and test in an inconspicuous spot to be sure it doesn't also
dissolve your driveway.

Oxalic acid likely won't touch it (wrong kind of chemical reaction).

-Mike

It's a white stain, mostly.

	Steve

My .02 worth ...

Muriatic acid (the type a pool supply company provides to put swimming
pools) will do the trick on concrete.  It will also do the trick on you
and your clother if your not careful.  I do not know how it would affect
asphalt though I don't think it would affect it.  I believe it reacts
with the calcium in the concrete.

Repeated application will even eat through more than a splash of concrete.  
I have an exposed aggregate concrete driveway, walkways, and pool decking
and have used it to clean the initial 'film' left when the concrete was
poured.  I have also periodically used it to remove rust stains from said
surfaces.  The rust comes from rocks in the concrete (which must have a
high Fe composition though I not a geologist). 

After applying a over zealous amount to a (fortunately inconspicuous)
spot on a walkway, several of the stones (pea gravel size) are flaking
out of the surface.  Yes, I need to seal it before more happens.

Know anybody with a pool that can supplu you with some muriatic?

More careful with my acid now,
Jdh

Muriatic acid can also be obtained from masonry supply places, e.g. Corriveau-
Routhier. I wouldn't be surprised if most hardware stores had it, as well.

-Jack

Muriatic acid is what masons use to clean mortar from bricks etc. which
is nearly the same problem as .0.  Available at larger hardware stores,
especially ones that sell masonry supplies.

-Mike

    Anyone know if muriatic acid wiol work on the new epoxy tile grouts?
    
    George

    I have no problem finding muriatic acid, and have even seen (at
    Hammar Hardware in Nashua) a "safer" version which claims that it
    is a blend of muriatic and hydrochloric acid which doesn't eat
    through skin nearly as fast, though you are still advised to
    wear protection.
    
    I will give the acid a try...
    
    			Steve

re .7:

    I have no problem finding muriatic acid, and have even seen (at
    Hammar Hardware in Nashua) a "safer" version which claims that it
    is a blend of muriatic and hydrochloric acid which doesn't eat
    through skin nearly as fast, though you are still advised to
    wear protection.

Muriatic acid is just another name for hydrochloric acid.

I've heard of the 'safer' acid, it has something added to it to slow the
acid/skin reaction somehow.

    I think that we had this discussion before. Muriatic acid IS an impure
    form of hydrochloric acid. Why blend them?
    
    Muriatic acid will do the job. Shouldn't hurt asphalt at all.
    
    Marc H.

    If it was a scam it's probably the MURPHY family.  This is a large
    extended family in the U.S. which specializes in home owner scams. Once
    a year they meet for a reunion in, I believe, Cincinatti. I don't
    believe that Murphy is their real name but rather the most common name
    they use in defrauding the public. 60 Minutes did a story on them about
    12 years ago.

    Not sure of the name but I think you're refering to the Gypsies. Once a
    year they return here to Cincinnati apparently to pay their respect to
    their deceased who are buried in a local cemetary
    
    They are not really welcomed here as the crime rate usually peaks
    during their presence. Most of them are into scams such as roofing,
    driveways, siding etc. They also break into homes, petty theft etc.
    
    Not too well liked here and we await their departure.
    
    Mike
    
    

Williamsons.

They are Scots, not Gypsies.  

They've been in business a long time and are very well organized, selling
machine-made lace as antique lace, used motor oil as driveway coating, doing
furnace inspections that end up costing thousands . . . 

Seems like everybody has heard of them and nobody has seen them.

    re: .35 They have definitely been seen - on network television. One of
    the nighttime investigative programs, I believe it was Primetime, did a
    story on them. After talking to several of their victims, they went to
    the area they live. Of course, they didn't answer any questions and
    chased the camera crew out of the area, but they've definitely been
    seen.

    Hi I have a depression in my driveway every winter. It's about
    2 feet in diameter and sinks about 4 or 6 inches. Last summer I lifted
    the tar from it, added some sand (it wasn't quite level), and patched
    it with tar. It did the same thing this year. I also have places where
    it heaves up. How should I tackle the situation?
    
    Paul

You probably have a large rock under your driveway.  Rocks don't expand like
the surrounding soil does when it freezes.  This causes a local depression.

Heaving could be caused by smaller rocks that are forced up when the soil 
freezes under them.  Another cause of heaving early/late in the season is 
voids (a sluice, for example) under the driveway.  The soil over the void 
freezes first and creates a local heave but as the rest of the soil freezes 
things level out, or a depression will form as there is more soil to expand
in the area around the void than where the void is located.

The cure is to remove the rocks/voids and have a homogeneous mixture down to 
the frost line (ha!).  If you are in New England, that will leave a depression 
the size of the Grand Canyon.  Personally, I just ignore it all.

Stan

    I have lots of that. I fill them with bags and bags of cold patch, then
    drive over it with my car to compact it. Soft underlayment, poor
    installation, sandy soil, water drainage under the driveway are my root
    causes. I live with it. I'll gladly spend a couple hundred $$ a year
    maintenance instead of several thou to tear it up and start over. Looks
    bad from the street, but I'd prefer better interior esthetics than
    pleasing the view for my neighbor.

	Anyone in Nashua with a sidewalk have their driveway widdened?
	How much extra should I expect to pay to have the curbstone
	removed?  Someone said I may have to have the city remove the
	curbstone (and of course pay them for the pleasure)?

	Thanks.  Jeff

    I have recently realized that it's time to look into paving.  We are on
    a hill, with about a 500 ft driveway which climbs about 30-35 feet. 
    It's now gravel (actually in the fall it was gravel, now its mud) and 
    the top has lots of clay with water crossing and causing quick sand.
    
      We had an estimate done and for $8400 they will remove the clay near
    the top and replace with large crushed rock (3"+) then medium crushed
    rock (1") compress then small (1/2") and compress.  Then large stone
    binder 1 1/2" and 1 1/2" of top coat.  The width will be 10feet wide.
    The entire driveway would of course be prepd by grading and using the
    2 smaller crushed rock and compressing as above.
    
      The guy is Paul Smith in Hopkinton and the house is in Hopkinton.  If
    anyone has seen any of his work or knows this process, maybe you can 
    reply.  We'll be checking out some of his previous work sometime soon.
    
    thanks, jack

    I don't know Paul Smith, but I can vouch for his plan as you described.
    If you can afford it, that's the right way to do it. Mine was done
    that way (in 2 stages over several years), and the results are great.
    With a base like that under the pavement, you should never have
    any problems.
    
    -Peter
    

    Im looking a widening a 50ft drive to a double car width drive.
    To do so will require some escavation of stone-cement 3 foot
    "ha-ha" wall and replacement there of.
    
    Any idea on howmuch this might run?
    Suppose the come across ledge in the escavation?
    
    

    
    "Suppose they come across ledge in the excavation?"
    
    big bucks.......  get a smaller car??????    :)
    
    $50/hr for the machine...$1k or more for blasting
    price of what ever you putting down after the "big Dig".....
    
    

    I have a contractor to put in a new driveway ( removed old hot top and
    expand the size ) 2 weeks ago. I have a few questions :
    
    1. How long will it take a new driveway to completely harden ? I parked 
       my car on the new driveway 1 1/2 weeks after the installation, and 
       noticed that the driveway caved in a little bit on a small spot. The 
       contractor said that I could parked the car after 4 - 5 days. How
       much longer should I wait before parking my car there.
    
    2. The contracter told me to sealcoat the new driveway after a month.
       Is this too soon ? I read the sealcoat note and decide to do it. So
       please don't tell me not to sealcoat. All I want to know is if 1 month
       too soon ? Or should I wait at least a few ( 3 ? ) months ? 
       
    3. Since the yard is not perfectly flat/level, a section of the
       driveway is raised about 3 or 4 inches above the soil/grass. I want
       to add more soil to level it up. Should I add soil abutting right to
       the driveway ? Or is it better to put some kind of border ( pt wood,
       brick, etc ) next to the driveway and then add soil abutting to the
       border.
    
    4. Assuming to put up a border, the edge of the asphalt is not
       perpendicular but at a 30 to 45 angle. What should be used to fill
       the gap between the asphalt and the border, gravel, stone dust ?
    
    Thanks
    
    Ken

Faced with a somewhat similar situation (about 90 feet of narrow bending
driveway with rocks beside and under it) I built a garage down at street 
level.  And then I had to blast get the garage set into the hillside!
Anyway, when it comes to ledge, there's just no telling until you have
the dirt stripped away and the magnitude of the problem is exposed.

	Luck,
	Larry

Hi,

I'm looking for some opinions...

I hired a contractor to come and re-pave my driveway last week.  Last
Thursday he was supposed to come and dig up the existing driveway, and then
on Friday.. lay down the new one.

However, it rained last Thursday morning (cleared up around noon).. and he
never showed up.  So I called when I got home from work and left a message
asking "what's happening, why didn't he show up".  Friday morning, still hadn't
heard back from him so I called again, and left another message.  I just
wanted to know if/when he was coming.  Finally around 11:30am I gave up,
just couldn't sit around the house all day waiting in case he decided to
show up.

Anyways.... when I got home Friday afternoon around 4:30 ... there was a
tractor sitting at the end of my driveway... mounds of asphalt in the
middle of the driveway, some of the brick walk was dug up...in essence,
it looked like some land mines had gone off in my yard.  Evidentally,
they showed up around noon, worked for a couple of hours.. then the
tractor broke.  But... no note was left explaining that, no message on my
phone answering machine.  So, once again I had to call to find out what
the heck was going on.  Finally around 8:30pm , he called back and 
explained that the tractor broke, and that he was trying to get someone
out there to fix it, Sat or Sun.  

Well, Sat came and went.. still nothing!  On Sunday around 12:30 he showed
up and said that "the guy was supposed to come fix it around 11:00.  He said
I'm going to go try to get ahold of him?:"...

I never heard back from that.  Then yesterday, I guess he stopped by my
house and told my sister-in-law that "the guy" was supposed to fix it
yesterday... but still nothing!@

I am VERY frustrated!  Of course, the latest is that there should be someone
there today to fix the tractor, and that they should be able to get a 
good amount of it done today.  but... as you know.. there's lots of rain
in the forecast for tonight and tomorrow.  So it sounds like if they do
start it today.. I'm going to have a big mud bowl in my yard for a day or
two.

I realize it's not his fault that the tractor broke... but I would think
he had 2 options:  1:  get someone else (reliable) to come and fix it,
or 2:  rent a tractor from someone so he can finish the job.

Needless to say.. I feel like he should adjust my bill to account for the
mess that he has left us in... for 5 days and counting!  By the way,
I live on a very busy street and have had to park our 2 cars in the road
for 5 nights... 

What do you think?  I'm getting to the point where I'm tempted to call
a wrecker and have them tow the tractor out of my yard and call another
paving company.  Should I expect an adjustment to my bill?  I think so!
But not sure if that's reasonable.

Thanks

Sounds like you're dealing with a typical New England "craftsman".

-Jack

>                   -< Why do you think they invented D-I-Y? >-
>
>Sounds like you're dealing with a typical New England "craftsman".

Exactly!	(You asked for opinions :-)

re: adjusting the bill?  I've found that it doesn't help to push these 
"craftsman" like that.  It's usually best to be firm on your written
contract (hopefully you have one) and I think you'll find that you will just 
be happy if they finish the job at all in some satisfactory manner.

And above all, never let them have more money than what they've put into it.
Sometimes that's the only way to assure that they come back.

Dan

Borrowing from Garth Brooks lyrics, "if your job depends on the 
weatherman" you're bound to experience weather-related delays.

If you have hired a small contractor, don't expect him to be sitting beside 
the telephone, either.  He's out there on the job finishing up from the 
last weather related delay.  When he finally gets home from that job and 
it's related problems and maintenance activities, he's probably got a few 
phone messages to deal with.

If he's a small operation he's probably using third or fourth hand 
equipment.  This stuff isn't too reliable (but it's probably all he could 
afford).  I used to have to service this stuff in a former capacity so I 
have a good feeling for how undependable some of this stuff is.

If he's not mechanically capable of fixing the equipment he's probably in a 
position where he has to hire someone to make said repairs.  If he's a 
small business he probably can't afford to call a dealer (and probably 
doesn't know where the nearest one is, anyways) so he calls his ex-wife's 
neighbor's son-in-law who works 16 hour days maintaining equipment for 
Middlesex Materials and whose wife wants him to spend some time with their 
kids once in a while.   .....so the equipment sits in your yard until he 
can get there with a "good used hose from one of the scrap loaders out in 
back"

Bottom line.... you want a driveway paved, call P.J. Keating not Joe's 
Paving and Upholstery and Dog Grooming.

>            -< A comody of errors starting w/ contractor selection >-
...
>Bottom line.... you want a driveway paved, call P.J. Keating not Joe's 
>Paving and Upholstery and Dog Grooming.

I used to think the same thing - but I disagree with the above statement as 
a hard and fast rule.  I think it all depends on the person(s) and/or company
involved.

I tried getting a large landscaping firm to do some landscaping for me.  They
were quite responsive to phone calls and coming out and quoting the job.  I 
wanted the job done fast and well - and was willing to pay extra (total was 
$2600).  I told them if things went well I'd have them back in the spring
for a job about 3 times that amount.  But before I mailed the down payment, I 
told them I wanted the plans roughly sketched out on paper first (one page).

After 3 weeks of excuses, they finally told me the job was too small for them
to bother taking the time to draw anything up...  I obviously told them to
forget it and thanked them for wasting my time.

Dan

> Sounds like you're dealing with a typical New England "craftsman".

	    Typical New England Craftsman?!?  I'm no craftsman, just a
	hack DIY'er, but I find that statement insulting.  Especially
	considering this is in reference to asphault paving!  What kind
	of skill is required to rake tar and drive a steam-roller?
	    As for this paving outfit, if this guy can't keep appoint-
	ments or at least return phone calls, he shouldn't be managing
	a business.  It's too bad that you got stuck with him.  I think
	I would ask him if he was going to make any kind of concessions.
	If he declines, tell him where you work and explain to him how
	this could benefit him and his business (ie. Notes).

					Tim

Well,

Thanks for all the input.  I'm trying not to create too much of a problem
until he's done.  I'm afraid if I make a big stink that he'll do a really
BAD job.  Anyways.... it's been almost a week (tomorrow will be a week)...
and it's still not done!  Got home last night and it appears that the
tractor has been fixed.. I now have the tractor, roller, trailer,
and wheelbarrels in my yard!  I sure hope TODAY is the day!  Oh yeah,
had another nice surprise when I got home last night...

My garage side door was wide open and the lights were on!  I was not
a happy camper!  In fact, think I'm heading home around noon time today
so that I can "keep an eye" on things.

I'll let you know the final outcome.  


Cathi

   When all is said and done, I believe you still have the opportunity to
   file a formal complaint with the Better Business Bureau.  It won't
   help things get done better or faster, nor will it get you any money
   back, but it will allow you to put your experiences on file to maybe
   help out the next person who calls and checks their record.
   
   Just a thought,
   
   - Tom

    Please don't say your from the Fitchburg/Leominster area and the
    company name begins with an M. If so I can understand what your going 
    through. I hired this certain company to do my driveway at my old
    house. They showed up with enough equipment to pave half the state of
    Mass and the manpower to match. After smashing the cellar window and
    paving right over the sill into the basement I knew I was doomed. Also
    instead of using a roller (it was broken) they had a guy with pieces of
    plywood strapped to his shoes to act as a roller to tamp down the
    asphalt, that was all I could take. The guys did nothing but argue and
    swear at each other about who was supposed to do what and when.
    Needless to say I had holes and heaves in less than the one year
    warranty and they had to come back to do it over again. It also took
    them forever to call me back when I told them his work was junk. After
    threatening a law suit if he didn't honor his warranty he was there the
    next day. This time I told him to make sure the roller came with him.
    They also had to pay for a new rug when the guy with the plywood shoes
    came into the house to ask my wife for a drink of water and tracked
    asphalt over the living room.

>
>I used to think the same thing - but I disagree with the above statement as 
>a hard and fast rule.  I think it all depends on the person(s) and/or company
>involved.
>

Excuse me, but we're talking paving companies, not landscapers here.  

Paving equipment (excavators, paving machines, rollers, dump trucks, etc) take 
a beating.  The only other construction industries that come close are 
excavators and concrete finishers.

Look at the equipment in the yard.  If it's ALL in dirty and dented 
condition, look elsewhere.  The guy can't afford to maintain his equipment.

The only paving company worse off than he is is the one that doesn't own a 
paving machine at all and dump-and-rakes your driveway, instead.  (Works 
great when you try and plow the driveway in the winter and just catch the 
bumps with the cutting edge.)

>>I used to think the same thing - but I disagree with the above statement as 
>>a hard and fast rule.  I think it all depends on the person(s) and/or company
>>involved.
>
>Excuse me, but we're talking paving companies, not landscapers here.  

I understand your point about the equipment.  But IMO, good equipment (no 
matter the size) does not a good contractor make.  Hence my example with the 
large (and reputable) landscaper.

Dan

re .8:

Sounds like the Three Stooges.

    
    
    re: .11  Sounds like the Three Stooges.
    
    Hey you imbecile, look what you did to that rug, I'll moyder you.... 
    

Well

... I finally have a new driveway.  They did show up last Thursday and
complete the driveway... but we having problems with slight cracks due
to the ground underneat being so soft!  Everytime they drove the roller over
certain parts.. it would crack again.  He told me that he would come back
later that night, after letting the tar cool down for a while, and try to
put some more over those portions.  But.. he didn't show up again that night.
However.. the next day I went  on my way.. and when I got home around
12:30 the whole crew was there again.  He put another whole layer on the
driveway!  Again he explained that the ground was real soft underneath..
and that was why he was doing it again with another new layer.

So.. overall.. I guess he was more than fair.  I actually got my driveway
paved twice for the price of one!

    RE: .13
    
    Have you paid for the work?
    
    Marc H.

YES.. It's all paid for.. and I'm glad it's done and over with!  Hope I
never have to go through that again!  But.. in reality, I probably will
someday.

Cathi

    As to the ground being soft underneath, that does not sound right.
    
    Did the contractor lay several inches of stone first, level it and
    compact it before laying the asphalt? If not, then every spring, and
    possibly every heavy rain, that asphalt is going to settle and crack.

    
    If the ground was too soft underneath... he's done the job wrong.
    Before laying any type of driveway, the loam should be removed 
    all the way down to hardpack... then built up with stone from 
    there (larger stone on the bottom to smallest stone on the top).
    
    Not to be the prophet of doom but... I expect you're going to 
    have a driveway with constant sagging and patching problems.
    
    								- Mac

    
    
    Dr. Doom strikes again!
    
    I wouldnt expect any great thing from what was done.......
    
    JD

    
>    If the ground was too soft underneath... he's done the job wrong.

I'll second that.  He doesn't have a clue if he's paving over soft ground.

The ground, itself, should be firm enough to support a vehicle w/o leaving 
appreciable depressions in the surface from the vehicles tires.  If he's 
getting movement from A ROLLER with it's enormously wider footprint, he's 
not only botched they job, he's created a situation where you'll have to 
pay to get his work trucked away before you can even think about doing it 
right next time.

Didn't you say he "replaced" a driveway?  Wasn't the first one a mess?  Why 
do you think the first one went south?

BTW, did you go to the flea market in Shirley last Sunday?  Did you see the 
condition of the runway?  That one was put down right over the loam.  
That's why he can't use it as a runway any more.

Could someone (moderator or base note author) please change 
the title of the base note to something more useful.  "Any 
opinions" gives no information about the subject matter.  
Perhaps "Advice needed on driveway repaving"

   Gary

Well... thanks for all those "positive" comments.  I know.. the truth hurts!
Well.. yes he did ...
	
	1.  Remove the old driveway
	2.  Level the driveway
	3.  Put down several inches of crushed stone
	4.  Run the roller over the crushed stone
	5.  Then he laid the new asphalt
	6.  Rolled the new asphalt

	7.  Came back the second day and laid new asphalt
	8.  rolled the 2nd layer of asphalt.

    When my driveway was done several (7+) years ago, they put down a coarse
    layer of asphalt (4+ inches) and then followed by a thin ( 1-2 inches)
    coat of "fine" asphalt (all of which was done over the crushed stone).
    The coarse layer had large stones in the asphalt mix.   This was all
    done in the same day.  I have been happy with the results.
    
    Was the second layer of asphalt on day 2 a finishing coat?
    
    Ed
    
    
    
    

    I had a new driveway put in last summer. Last winter there were lots of
    snow in this NE area. I made a big mistake. I used one of those tool
    that has sharp edge (don't know what it is called) to break up the ice
    build up on the driveway. That made some small dents on the surface of
    the driveway, about 1/2 to 1 inch wide, may be 1/2 inch deep. Is there
    something I can use to patch it up ? Does it require long time to cure
    ? I am planning to seal the driveway the next couple weeks. I want to
    patch up those little dents before sealing the driveway. This is a very
    high traffic area where my kids will play basketball. So the patch
    material must be very durable.
    
    Thanks.
    
    Ken
    

    
    You can purchase bags of asphalt(I know that Home Depot sells them).
    Just put some in the cracks, and tamp it down.
    
    It's cheap and don't remember it taking too long to cure.
    
    -John

	    Wait until it's sunny and hot.  The asphault will soften and you
	may be able to tamp those divots flat.  If you're just worried about
	looks, come look at the what's left of my driveway.  Wanna trade?!?

					Tim

    
         They make asphalt repair material that comes in a 1 gallon tub
      that you can trowel into the spots. It hardens within several hours
      then you can seal right over it. They also make it in a more liquid
      version (1 gallon jugs) that is used for filling cracks.
    
                                            Randy

    
    For the holes described in .6, definitely use the patch material in the
    1-gal bucket described in .9. The cold patch (comes in bags) will be
    too coarse, the liquid (in .9) too thin.
    

Just make sure you don't overfill the depression and that you tamp it down
firmly (put a board over it and run a car over the board), or else you'll
end up with a bump instead of a dent.

				Steve (voice of experience :-(  )

    
    We had our driveway redone in the fall.  Seems to have held
    up this winter ok.. but the co that did the work recommended
    to wait till spring of 95 to seal.   I recently went to a 
    friend of a friends house; he had his driveway sealed about
    2 months after it was put in.  The co that did the driveway
    did the sealing in his case.  So exactly how long should one
    wait between installation and sealing ?  does it depend on
    the season the drive was installed ?  Does it depend on the
    way the drive was installed (base coat / top coat vs single
    layer) ?

Why would anyone seal a newly-installed driveway, unless the installation
was sub-standard?

				Steve

    I had my driveway paved last year and the CO. I went with suggested
    that I wait one winter before seal coating. The rational was that if
    any heaving/sinking occured during the winter, the installer could
    repair the defect much easier. I'd also read (notesfile?) that a
    properly installed driveway would never require sealing. The installer
    told me that the asphalt is petrolium based and would "dry out" with
    time if not sealted. I survived the winter without any problems and
    will be sealing at the end of the month.
    
    Roger
    

The definitive answer is to do it the way the installer said to do it.  That
way, if something goes wrong, at least you can say you followed their directions.

When I had my driveway done, one company sent the owner's father out to do the
estimate, since it had to be in the evening.  The man that came out works days
as the superintendent of roads for our town.  Since our neighborhood roads were
recently dug up to run water, we talked a lot about the repaving done for the
roads, and lots of other related topics.  On the subject of sealing driveways,
he provided the following info:

Once asphalt is down, UV light starts working on the surface.  Prolonged
exposure causes the surface to become brittle, and as it does it gets gray, and
the surface starts to get minute cracks.  The longer the exposure, the deeper
the cracks.  After a while, winter's frost will start to help enlarge the
cracks.  Also, the shifts in the ground will make the more brittle sections
crack faster, too.  He said that much of the shifting can be eliminated by good
site preparation, but on hills, soft ground, or under heavy loads, some shifting
is inevitable.  He said that sealing protects the driveway from UV, frost
damage, and helps prevent problems with oil/gas spills, but it has the drawback
of making the driveway more slippery.  He felt it's best to play it by ear, and
seal when your driveway is getting gray, usually after a few years, and then as
you feel it is necessary after that.

My driveway is 28 years old and is still in fine shape.  It has never been
sealed.  It does have some cracks due to tree roots, etc., which I have
filled.  Of course, this driveway was installed back when quality materials
and techniques were used.


					Steve

>My driveway is 28 years old and is still in fine shape.  It has never been
>sealed.  It does have some cracks due to tree roots, etc., which I have
>filled.  Of course, this driveway was installed back when quality materials
>and techniques were used.


Mine's about 10 years old and has never been sealed, either, and it 
probably never will get sealed.  Like Steve, I have a quality job.  
Mine's concrete.

	It's been said time and again, by many reputable sources, that
	sealing a driveway is purely cosmetic. I've seen nothing that
	convinces me to the contrary.

	Roy

The obvious test is to seal half your driveway.

    What preparation is required before filling cracks of 3/8 to 1/2 inch
    width?
    
    Dick

    > purely cosmetic...
    
    Which seems to me to be as good a reason as any.
    
    Edd (sealing next weekend)

    
    I've noticed two differences with sealing.  First is that ice & snow
    melt faster (probably due to the higher temp of the blacker surface),
    and that traction is better.  My drive is steep and using the sealer
    that has a gritty, non-slip finish provides better traction.
    
    About half the people in my street seal their drives, and those that do
    all have significantly less cracking than those who do not.  The worse
    cracking is on the steep drives on my side of the street.  All the
    drives were laid down about 10 years ago. There's not much difference
    between the sealed/unsealed flat drives.  I suspect that this is
    because we on the steep side use a lot more salt in the winter, which
    contributes to the thaw/freeze cycle that causes severe cracks.
    
    So another good reason may be that if you have to use a lot of salt,
    sealing *may* have some benefit.
    
    Colin
    
    

	It may also be that people who seal their driveways also tend to
	fill cracks and repair problems when they're small.

	Roy

    
    I was mostly interested in sealing because of the dripping from
    autos.  I currently have a car that leaks a little (haven't had
    time to get to it yet) and have a spot of oil just off the driveway
    on the lawn (unknown).  I could be a little more attentive to my
    own vehicle and fix the leak, but I can't be sure that every one
    that drives on my driveway won't have a leak of some fluid or another.
    Along that note, my driveway is the first one after a fork in the
    road - short of putting up a gate, there is no way to keep those
    that miss the fork from turning around in my driveway. 
    
    I was looking for protection rather than for lack of quality or
    asthetics.  Altho they 'missed' with the turning area of the
    driveway, I feel it is a quality job. 

    re: .9 and .10
    I went to Home Depot and Summerville Lumber this weekend and couldn't 
    find the 1 gal tub asphalt repair material mentioned in .9 and .10. I
    asked the salesman and they don't know anything about the 1 gal tub.
    They do have the 1 gal crack filler which I think is in liquid form.
    Can you tell me what the tub is called ?
    Thanks.
    

    Home Depot and many other home improvement places in the GMA carry
    the Latexite? line of asphalt patch stuff.  (dang I just cannot
    remember the manufacture exactly... but they are everywhere)
    
    In comes in various types.  Each container usually has hints on what it
    is suitable for:
    
    - Crack filler;  liquid tar-like stuff for filling small cracks
    - For bigger stuff there are (I forget which for what)
    - "Trowel Patch"
    - "Super Patch"
    	one is availible with or without sand in it.
    - Then there are bigger tubs (3.5, 5 gal) of patch material with 
    	real gravel in it for real holes.
    - You can also get large bags (40-50 lbs?) of cold patch.

    
    True Value hardware stores carry the 1-gal bucket. I've always referred
    to it as "trowel patch". I have one at home, will get the exact name if
    I remember.
    

    Hmmmmmm ... no new notes in this topic since 1992 ..... so .... what's
    the lastest word on sealing a brandy new driveway - yes/no???  If yes,
    when?  How soon after it's been installed.  What about temperature? 
    Hot/cool/warm?  Is latex base still the best?
    
    Assume the asphalt has been installed "correctly" --- and the driveway
    is basically flat.
    
    Saw some stong opinions earlier noted that sealing does and does not
    make sense.  
    
    Any updated information out there?
    
    Thanx .... d.

    I haven't seen any new evidence to suggest sealing a new driveway
    makes any sense at all.
    
    					Steve

    Believe me Steve - I'm not looking for reasons to make work for myself. 
    But can you speak to why the sealer won't add value - specifically in
    keeping the moisture out of the asphalt?  
    
    And is this another product that has marketed an illusion in the minds
    of its buyers?  
    
    Thanx ..... d.

    not exactly on the subject but....
    
    How come when highway construction is underway 'they' groove the
    pavement, I know its grooved to make good contact with new pavement but 
    then they leave it in that condition for several weeks....Its very
    dangerous for motorcyclist especially at night on unfamiliar roads. 
    
    Just wondering,
    Jt

If the driveway has been constructed properly (good bed with drainage 
underneath, good quality asphalt), moisture won't be a problem - at least for
many years.  Sealers do have a use for poorly constructed or poorly maintained
driveways, or those where you expect a lot of oil/gas leaks. 

As I've said earlier, my driveway is 27 years old, has never been sealed,
and is in excellent condition.  The cracks which were caused by tree roots
have been filled and any gouges patched; that seems to be all that has been
necessary.

People like sealer because it makes their driveway look "brand new"; for
about 2-3 weeks.  It then has to be reapplied on a regular basis or else
the asphalt looks horrible.

					Steve

Re: .122

Yes, it's to improve adhesion.  The leaving it for weeks does not have
a purpose; it depends on what equipment they have available when.  

					Steve

They also do so to remove some of the old pavement, to prevent it from
getting too thick with repeated repavings.  Important under some bridges (if
the clearence will be too low with another layer) and over bridges (don't want
too much weight...)  They also recycle the asphalt now.

-Mike

	Re: A few back....

	What about sealing a concrete driveway, mine is about a year old
	we all see the Thompsons commercial...whats the conventional 
	wisdom on the need for sealing a concrete drive-way?

	Steve T.

Hmm - never heard of doing that...  Haven't seen the commercial you refer to.
Seems rather pointless to me; concrete, properly installed, is pretty much
a "forever" product.  Probably wouldn't do any harm, I suppose, but even
cured concrete has significant amounts of water in it.

					Steve

Concrete, especially at the end of the driveway near the street, should 
benefit from sealing as it'll keep that nasty stuff used to melt that other 
nasty stuff away in that nasty time of the year from eating nasty holes in 
your nice concrete.

The bottom of my concrete driveway is gradually crumbling in a couple of 
spots due to 8 or so winter's worth of road salt having puddled onto it.

    
    .128
    
    Second that one.  My Garage floor was beginnin g to suffer from Salt
    damage due to salt dripping off the cars.  The Thompsons stops it
    from soaking in to the floor before I get a chance to sweep the
    water out.  
    
    

re: sealing new asphalt driveway

The instructions on the can of sealer I was looking at say to wait 6 months
before sealing a newly paved driveway.

"Concrete and Asphalt Driveway Cleaner" was used to remove the overspray 
from spraying tires with STP Protectorant  (Armor-all type product I assume) 
on asphalt driveway.

Now it's worse!  The former small black areas are now larger dark grey
areas.  What a mess.   Any ideas what to do next?

I don't want to seal it.  What's oxalic acid and where do I get it?
I have TSP and was thinking of trying that this weekend.

Oxalic acid probably won't help.  It's mainly for rust stains but works
on some weird chemical stains as well.

Larger hardware places have it either in the paint or cleaner section.
It's white crystrals or powder you mix with water.

Don't eat it, it's poisonous...

-Mike

    Along a similiar note, I would like to DIY a 10 x 25 foot section of
    driveway (concrete) outside my side door.  I currently have 'road'
    grade gravel which becomes messy in the spring and rain season.  It
    appears to have a good base, forget how much the contractor layed down
    though.  Would I be able to simply use 2x4's to frame three 10 x 10
    sections, laying the concrete on top of what is currently there ??
    Or should I remove some of the existing drive and put a 2" base of
    stone ??
    
    Thanks,
    
    Steve

    I'd go with 6" of concrete and make sure to cut it when your
    done or it'll crack up on its own.
    
    If the driveway is used all the time it should be fine. 3/4 stone has
    enough dirt in it to allow it to pack down fairly well.
    
    Brian V
    

    
    The last couple of times I sealed the driveway, I just paid someone to
    do it since my wife had a friend who gave us a decent price.  This
    time, I've decided to do it myself.   I bought some of the Latextite 
    airport grade resurfacer, and I noticed on the bucket that it says not
    to apply  if the surface temperature of the driveway will fall below
    45 degrees within 24 hours.  (Guess this means I should've done this
    job earlier in the season!).  What happens to the sealer if the
    temperature does drop below 45 degrees ?  
    
    Thanks, Larry
    

    re: .131
    
    The sealer is an emulsion in water.  If it freezes before it dries,
    the emulsion breaks and the sealer precipitates out, separating
    itself from the water and becoming useless.  That might be what the
    warning about cool weather is about.
    

    I've gotten several quotes on resurfacing my driveway. Some involve
    leveling coat'finish coat. Others include tearing up the old stuff,
    regrading, and resurfacing with a base coat and finish coat. Any
    thoughts on on why the approaches differ. both prices are about equal.
    
    Thx.
    Ken

    It would depend on the condition of your present surface.  If it is
    cracked, broken and falling apart, I'd dig it up and replace the whole
    thing.
    
    Resurfacing is only as good as the base.
    
    Cal

    I live in a condo and without a doubt, it has the smallest, narrowest
    driveway ever made!  :-)
    
    We contacted the condo association about having it widened.  They
    quoted us $500 for a 5ft x 21ft widening.  Thats right, $500 for 105
    square feet.
    
    I have read every note in this conference with "driveway" in the title,
    and I have seen all kinds of numbers, from $1 per square foot, to
    thousands.  I am NOT a DIYer, so maybe I should sit in my condo and
    write my check.  
    
    But $500 seems like an awful lot.  Is that price really justified?
    
    Jim
    

One thing I learned about paving driveways, is there is a certain overhead to
have them bring in the equipment to do the work.  After that, incremental cost
for a longer or wider surface is not that great.

Our 400' driveway was not much more than my 150' driveway at my previous house.

Of course, you could call around to get independent prices, to make sure the
condo association is getting a good deal...

Elaine

    	My father used to work for a hot-topping crew and did our driveway
    for free, in sections. Every job usually has some extra so instead of
    dumping it someplace to be reprocessed, my father had them dump it in
    the driveway. The end result didn't look bad at all.
    
    	Perhaps you could look into something similar ???
    
    	Ray

    
     I just had my driveway paved and have an issue with the workmanship
    that I need some feedback on. It was paved with the standard 1 1/2 base
    plus 1 1/2" topcoat. One of my issues is that in the area where the
    cars will park most of the time, they only got about 1 1/2 - 2" max
    total asphalt applied. Water runoff in this area is poor and I'm
    concerned that due to the thin asphalt in conjuction with the cars
    parking in this area that it will be a puddle area soon. My other
    concern is durability of the driveway in this area. 
    
     Any thoughts on what I should request the contractor to do? I have
    not paid them yet.
    
    
    
    					Thanks, Dave
    

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                              Home_work
Created:  5-NOV-1991 19:08                                   5692 topics                                  Updated:  5-OCT-1995 10:54
                                    -< Index, see 1111/contractors, 2000/ Wanted&selling, 1666 >-
 Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   131   SOUSA::LEWIS        16-APR-1986    19  Hot-Top Driveway Widening
   282  NUWAVE::SUNG         31-JUL-1986    38  Conduit under driveway
   709  NETCOM::HARRIS       19-JAN-1987    36  Driveway re-paving... costs?
   837   38611::SUNG         27-FEB-1987     2  The Sounds of Driveways
   916  PUNDIT::CHIP         24-MAR-1987    22  What to do with mud driveway?
   944  BPOV09::SJOHNSON     30-MAR-1987   132  Sealing a driveway
   955  CNTROL::GERDE        31-MAR-1987    22  Driveways: asphalt vs concrete
  1061  CHAPLN::SULLIVAN     23-APR-1987    10  Power lines up long driveway
  1071  ELWOOD::TANZER       27-APR-1987     9  << Driveway Repair Material >>
  1338   YAZOO::R_OELFKE     20-JUL-1987    41  pole lamps (driveway)
  1514  DECWIN::NISHIMOTO    13-SEP-1987    36  Gravel driveway - what kind of gravel?
  1574  PUNDIT::MEDVECKY     25-SEP-1987    34  heated driveway
  1610  SVCRUS::CRANE         6-OCT-1987     6  driveways : paving stones
  2168  CIMNET::NMILLER      31-MAR-1988    24  Stone dust (Starpack) for driveways?
  2327  HPSMEG::HOLEWA       25-MAY-1988     8  OIL STAIN ON DRIVEWAY-REMOVAL
  2331   VIDEO::FINGERHUT    26-MAY-1988     5  DIY Driveway Paving
  3178  SVCRUS::DESPRES      21-APR-1989     3  Crushed stone Driveway ??
  3218    DELI::GREENAWAY     8-MAY-1989    11  Weeds through new Driveway
  3725    TOOK::M_OLSON      23-FEB-1990     7  tractor for a steep driveway
  3772  GIAMEM::ERSKINE      30-MAR-1990     9  How to remove Rust on Asphalt Driveway
  4365  CSTEAM::BURSTALL      8-SEP-1991    57  Cement vs. Blacktop for driveway
  4601  NHASAD::GARABEDIAN   21-APR-1992     5  rough cost of driveway ?
  4727   QUARK::LIONEL       26-AUG-1992     9  How to remove concrete/cement from asphalt driveway
  4734  MR4DEC::PWILSON       1-SEP-1992     9  Granite Cobblestone Driveways
  4837    GOLF::JANOWSKI      7-JAN-1993     2  driveway depressions
  4868  LACV01::BAUMEISTER    1-FEB-1993     5  Re-surfacing a Concrete Driveway?
  4899  ROULET::FISHER       25-MAR-1993     5  Solution for the driveway if possible!
  5281    IAGO::PROVENCAL    12-APR-1994    24  Paving driveways
  5410  OFOS02::HEGGE        30-AUG-1994     1  Driveway Extension
  5421  MCITS1::BROSCHAT     15-SEP-1994    11  Driveway Sealers
  5443   CSC32::B_MACKENZIE  19-OCT-1994     5  Snow Fences: how close to driveway
  5481  WRKSYS::CLEW::DEMERS 12-DEC-1994    40  Alternative driveway surfaces
  5498  VMSSPT::PAGLIARULO   27-JAN-1995     4  Driveway Drainage Problem
  5692  DANGER::HARTWELL      5-OCT-1995     0  Help requested on new driveway installation

    
    Does the contractor have a warranty?? Tell them your concerns, and ask
    them to come back and fix it.
    
    

    They have offered to warranty it for like 2 years. Not sure if this
    is reasonable. 
    
    
    						/Dave
    

    
    If the warranty is there, then call them. I don't know of many that
    warranty over a year or two.
    
    

    Since it's approaching autumn it's about time to start
    thinking about repairing my blocktop driveway next summer.
    
    I've looked at the driveway repair notes but didn't
    find one that quite applies to my situation.
    
    Like many homes, our blocktop driveway comes right up
    to our garage slab.  Unfortunately, that end of the
    driveway was damaged while the garage was being rebuilt
    and a new slab was poured.
    
    So now we've got a "semi-repaired" strip of
    driveway that's about 1-2' wide and about 20' long.  That is,
    the driveway is about 20' wide, and the "semi-repaired"
    strip is 1 to 2 feet wide all aong the garage slab.
    
    The "semi-repair" was done by cutting away the original
    blacktop and removing it completely, all the way down to
    the original gravel underneath.  Then the hole was
    approximately filled with *many* bags of that asphalt
    patch that you can get at Home Depot, for example.
    
    It was also tapped down fairly well by driving our cars over
    a board placed on top of it.  This was done a few years
    ago and the "semi-repair" has stayed in place, and shows
    no signs of deteriorating.
    
    The problem with it is that especially where the car wheels
    have gone over it, the repaired area has been pushed
    down somewhat.  Further, over the entire length, the
    repaired area is not even.  It tends to collect lots of
    rain water, and lots of sand and other debris, and it
    looks unsightly.
    
    What I'd like to do is level it off.  But I think that
    pulling it all up and starting from scratch would be just
    a temporary repair, and I'd be in this same state again
    in another few years.
    
    Here's what I'm considering doing, and I'd appreciate
    any helpful suggestions and comments.
    
    First I'll clean the entire strip thoroughly,
    so that I've got as clean a surface to work with as I can.
    Then, to insure a good bond between the old surface and
    the (unfortunately relatively thin) layer of patch that
    I'll be putting on top, I'll coat the old surface with
    some asphalt repair coating (but I'm not sure exactly
    what to use.)  Then I'll apply the asphalt patching
    on top of that (I presume that I can use the stuff that
    comes in bags) and pack it all down as well as I can. I'll
    also raise that area up above the surface of the driveway
    a bit, and slope it down from the top of the garage slab,
    to add additional thickness.
    
    Does anyone see a better way of accomplishing this fix?
    
    

	I had to dig a trench across my paved driveway,
about the same time that I was adding a garage to one end.
I intended to use the same patch technique for both areas, 
but only ever got to the trench cut.  Here's what I did:

	When the garage foundation was going in, I had the
excavation contracter use his saw (just a skill 77 with a
very, very expensive diamond tipped blade) to score the
pavement about a foot in front of where the garage apron would
end, and in two lines flanking the trench.  This made it easy
to get a relatively clean edge when removing the unneeded paving;
sort of perforated pavement.  After the trench was done and filled,
I added a top layer of brick dust, tamped it, and laid some paving
blocks flush with the drive surface.  More brick dust was brushed
in the cracks.  

	About 5 years later now, the bricks have settled a little,
but all I have to do is lift them and add more dust beneath, then
replace them.  I haven't got around to it, of course...it was never
meant as a permanent fix, just until we repave, but it adds an
accent of sorts - sort of like a brick paved pathway.  I'm considering
doing much of the driveway the same way - in my spare time, of course...

	Last September I had a new driveway put in.  Or, more specifically, an
old driveway torn up, excavation down to 12", gravel brought in and 3" of base
and 1-1/2" of topcoat put down. There is now a hole in the driveway in front of
one of the garage doors.  The hole is about 5X3 inches and is right where the
pavement stops at the Garage floor concrete pad.  It looks like the pavement
collapesed because of no underlying support.  I called the paving company to
come look at it, which they did.  Rather than their just saying that they would
fix it, which I expected, they said that they would need to dig down, make a
larger hole and find out what caused the hole.  No problem, but then they said
it looks like there is a drain there (there isn't) or something else that is
causing water (there isn't) and if so then it is my problem and I will have to
pay to repair it.  Now, I didn't pay 14K to have a driveway with a hole in it
but right now I am not knowledgable enough to be able to argue with them, if
necessary.  My feeling is that if there is a problem there it is something that
they should have found when excavating and they are responsible for the repair.

	Any ideas on how to approach or handle this?  I guess what I'm looking
for is any advice to help me be well armed before going into battle, if I need
to.

Thanks,

George

While I can't comment on the source of the hole, I can recommend the following
as you proceed:

- take thorough notes.  note ALL conversations, time/date stamp them.  keep
  a copy of all correspondence.  You -may- need them should  you have to
  go the legal route.

- review the warranty/guarantee.  Make sure you know what is/is not covered.
  
- Take pictures of the hole now.  Take pictures as they dig.

- If you can track down the builder, try to find out what might be there.
  Did they hit water when they dug for the foundation?

Good luck,

Chris

> come look at it, which they did.  Rather than their just saying that they would
> fix it, which I expected, they said that they would need to dig down, make a
> larger hole and find out what caused the hole.  No problem, but then they said

    Well, you may be uneasy, and rightly so, about who's responsible
    and who's going to foot the bill for this, but... at least they're
    taking the correct approach to finding the cause of the hole. 

    A cheap contractor would probably offer to come back and fill the
    hole with more asphalt and pack it in. Quick, easy and cheap, but
    almost certainly not permanent. 

    My guess (one of them) as to the cause is, water running off of
    the drive way towards the garage, found it's way between the
    driveway and garage and trickled into the ground. The water then
    either found, or created and then enlarged a path to some
    underground drainage location and grew from there. More drainage =
    more water = more undermining. Hard to say who's at fault, but
    maybe they should have slopped the driveway some more to keep the
    water from running that way, if this is the case.

    Just a SWAG without actually knowing more details and/or seeing
    the site.

    Good luck

    Charly

>>>>>>at least they're taking the correct approach to finding the cause of the
hole.


Yeah, and I feel good about that and I really don't expect a problem with
getting this corrected.  But, just in case.......

George

To follow-up on .354, the paving contractor came over this morning to look at
the hole in my driveway.  They cut out a section of the pavement then dug down
where the hole (and an associated crack) appeared to see what caused the
problem.  There was nothing obvious there.  The only thing they could figure was
that the underlying gravel wasn't compacted enough or maybe didn't fill a void
created when they excavated.  They recompacted the gravel, filled in with new
asphalt tamped it down and while they were at it heated and retamped a few other
areas where the surface of the new pavement got damaged this winter by spinning
tires etc.  The repair and driveway look good and I am very happy the way they
{Tate Brothers Paving) handled it.

George