Conference marvin::uk_music

    
    Re.0
    Timebeat sounds worth a visit,I agree with you about Our price
    records,they cater for the majority(which is ok),however if you
    do want something a bit different,the cost can be extreme,or you
    have to keep pestering them to get it in.
    Some shops worth a visit are "Kens records" in Aldershot,they
    specialise in second hand and rareities.The singles section is
    paticually good.
    If you are a fan of heavy music,shades in London is very good but
    very expensive.they can be found in a basement just off wardour
    street.They can get those very hard to find heavy records.
    There is a shop in Egham which stocks second hand records
    I can not remember the name,but they do have very good quality second
    hand records at a good price.
    Finally the record stall in Kingston market was once very good,and
    used to be a good source for deleted records etc.
    
    
    steve.s
    
    

    
    2 Our Price ..... we've got 3 in Reading.  However, we do have a
    couple of reasonable second hand places in Pop Records and Sirrels
    on the Oxford Road.  Otherwise, it's a trip into London for HMV
    or Virgin.
    
    I agree with you Harv - record shops ain't what they use to be.
    The Virgin on Lever Street in Manchester .... great place!!
    
    David.
    

    
    re 'Our Price'...
    (interesting aside, not entirely irrelevant)
    
    I worked for 'OP' for 6 months, at the Sloane Square branch (OK
    YAH!)..during that time, I visted the basement of the Tott Ct Rd
    branch which was *jam packed* full of 8 track cartridges!
    If you could see how some of the branches store their records behind
    the counters, you wouldn't buy from them!
    
    		
    			Si

    READING..
    
    Well as you hae already heard from Dave there are 3 yes count 'em
    3 Our Price shops in Reading. And going by "Our Price" Prices (if
    you'll forgive the pun) they are well above what they should be,
    but I suppose most NORM peaps in Reading can afford to pay for over
    priced records/tapes and Cd's.
    
    Another shop which was missed off by Dave is Listen Records in the
    once was Butt's Centre now known to a few as the Broad Street Mall,
    on the second floor. I tend to go there these day's as they offer
    good prices and have a lot of off the beat type of music.
    
    They have a lot of HM music and a small selection of Reggae (which
    insidentally is why I go there).
    
    They also have the running offer of a free CD when you get 10 of
    their CD Tokens(You get ONE with each CD you buy from them).
    
    	BTW: THIS IS NOT AN ADD FOR LISTEN RECORDS!
    
    Bye for now.
    
    
    	\Andy

    
>    Many moons ago in my youth, i used to work in a record shop in
>    Glasgow-( anybody out there remember Listen/Bloggs record shops
>    in the city centre ???- yes, you could have been served by me !!!),

    	Bet your hair's a bit shorter now! Yup they were great shops,
    	i couldn't find Pablo Cruise anywhere else. The one in Renfield
    	St. is  now 'The Other Record Shop' which is better than either
    	Virgin or HMV. 23rd Precinct in Bath St. is still the place
    	to go if you want to order from Europe or USA.
    	
    	Luton is another place infested with Our Price, the best place
    	for Soul Jazz Funk was Bluebird records, although a bit pricey.
    
    	In London I always head for Mole Jazz near Kings Cross, you
    	get great CD's there for 6 to 8 pounds.
    
    	WOM (World Of Music) shops in Munich are great, there are
    	headphones all over the shops playing new releases, I've
    	bought a lot of stuff I wouldn't have heard of otherwise.
    
    	Doug.

    
    What do you think of Tower Records in Piccadilly Circus?  Good,
    bad or indifferent.
    
    Sue

    
    I've been in only once.
    
    Its big alright, and if i remember right , there was a good range
    of stuff for sale. 
    
    The only drawback, and its the same for the "Megastores", is that
    
    i find them really plastic / impersonal....
    
    
    
    Harv

    re .5
    
    
    Hey c'mon
    
    
    i wasn't the one with long hair. !!!!!
    
    Anyway, yes WOM in Munich is good but what a squeeze.......!!!!
    
    The "Other Record Shop" in Renfield St isn't too bad ,and neither
    is "A1" records (also in Renfield St). 23rd Precinct was good ..at
    one time if you were under 18 or so (if i remember right), they
    issued you with a card which gave you about 20% discount...pretty
    good eh; however, prices there are  not cheap by any matter of means
    !!
    
     Another one to look out for up north is G.I. Records 
     (They were in Cockburn Place in Edinburgh)...whether they are still
    there or not i don't know, but that was a great place to shop
    
    Harv
    

    Re.1:-
    		I don't think Shades is that expensive.  It's certainly
    much cheaper than Megastore/HMV.  Tower is quite good for rock and
    they usually have a few rare 12" lurking downstairs.
    
    		Listen is definitely the best shop in Reading for any
    kind of non-mainstream tastes!!
    
    		And finally, for now, Can anybody tell me where, oh
    where, is Rough Trade Records in London.  I think it's around Soho
    somewhere, but where??
    
    Keep the faith,
    			Darron.

.9�    		And finally, for now, Can anybody tell me where, oh
.9�    where, is Rough Trade Records in London.  I think it's around Soho

    Used to be off Portobello Rd, W10, probably still is around the
    same area (it's bin years)
    
    
    			Si

>< Note 57.8 by COMICS::LANG "No, I am not kidding !!!" >
>                            -< short hair now !!! >-

>     Another one to look out for up north is G.I. Records 
>     (They were in Cockburn Place in Edinburgh)...whether they are still
>    there or not i don't know, but that was a great place to shop


  GI records in Cockburn St, (no relation!) went out of business
  a couple of years ago, as did The Other Record Shop. The main 'decent'
  places in Edinburgh now are HMV + Virgin (on Princes St) and Ripping
  records on South Bridge near the University.

			Craig.

   WOWWWWWEEEEE CHECK THIS OUT...
    
    
    
    Something IS happening IN Reading, anyone have any ideas what it
    is?
    
    
    Of the 6 places in reading where to buy Records/tapes cd's etc..
    the following is happening:
    
    BroadStreet Mall - Our Price - Closed for refurbishment.
    
    Union Street (Smelly Alley) - Our Price - Closing.
    
    WH Smith - Record Department - Closed.
    
    Well it might not be that bad, but it means less places to choose.
    
    
    	Regs.
    
    	\Andy

    Re. .12
    
    Once upon a time, a company called W H Smith decided that their
    record departments were too old and fuddy-duddy. Teenies were rushing
    off to Our Price and Virgin with their crumpled fivers just 'cos
    they had colured lights and a bigger P.A. Smiths decided to open
    their own chain of record shops, called "Sound FX". About half a
    dozen were opened, and did very well except that nobody bought anything
    in them. So, faced with failure, Smiths did what any self-respecting
    capitalist does - they bought out the opposition. First Music Market
    and then Our Price were snapped up in 1986. Together with the Sound
    FX stores, they were all revamped as Our Price Music. This left
    many towns with two or even three OP outlets within half a mile
    of each other.
    
    What you're seeing in Reading is the rationalisation. Expect one OP to
    re-open with high-budget decor, and the WHS record department to be
    redecorated in pastel shades of cardboard and staffed by people in pink
    jumpsuits.
    
    When WHS buy out HMV, you really need to start worrying. :-)

    The record shop I generally use is called 'Mike Lloyds Megastore',
    they'll get you absolutely any record from anywhere in the world
    if its still available (and a few that aren't), I get all my 'Church'
    imports from there, with the added advantage that whenever I go
    in (every six weeks or so) there is usually a carrier bag full of
    goodies that I might be interested in under the counter.
    
     The BIG disadvantage for most of you is that it's in Hanley (part
    of Stoke-on-Trent) but you can't have everything can you?
    
    				Graham

	Rough Trade! That's the place to be!

	Ed

    When in London, try the following:
    
    Reckless Records in Berwick Street (just before the market on the
    left hand side going away from Oxford Street. Masses of second hand
    albums and tapes with a no quibble guarantee. Many rarities.
    
    Colletts International Bookshop (on the right going down Charing
    Cross Road from the top). Folk, blues, international, second hand
    etc. Not for rock or pop.
      
    Continuing down Charing Cross Road, to Cambridge Circus, you could
    turn left up Shaftsbury Avenue and you will find a jazz record shop
    about 150 yds down on the right OR if you take the next one round
    off Cambridge Circus you will find Dobells Jazz and Folk shop on
    the left.
    
    If you continue over Cambridge Circus, down Charing Cross Road,
    past the shops which lay back undercover, turn right up the alley
    and there is a small shop on the left which has tables out front
    with boxes of albums in. Inside they have second hand, videos tapes
    and rarities and their prices are often at least 50p per album cheaper
    than anywhere else. Its not much, but every little helps.
    
    Hope this gives you all somewhere to look if you are not already
    familiar.
    
    PS for Reading (UK) people.
    
    The second hand shop in the Oxford Roadjust round the corner from
    the Chatham Street car park has a large collection of albums.
    
    There are a couple of shops in Soho - one which sells only soundtracks
    but I cannot remember where they are. You would have to wander about
    but bear in mind there are often basement shops which are quite
    hard to find. Theres one under a bag shop two or three doors away
    from Virgin in Oxford Street.
    
    regards
    
    
    If you walk up Tottenham Court Road from St Giles Circus and take
    the first left into a rather grim looking alley OR walk up Oxford
    Street from St Giles Circus and take the first right (into the other
    end of the aformentioned alley) you will find (if they are still
    there, and I think they are) three! shops which sell all sorts -
    promos , much second hand, old music papers, punk, rockabilly you name it.
                                
                               
    
    

>>    
>>   If you walk up Tottenham Court Road from St Giles Circus and take
>>    the first left into a rather grim looking alley OR walk up Oxford
>>    Street from St Giles Circus and take the first right (into the other
>>    end of the aformentioned alley) you will find (if they are still
>>    there, and I think they are) three! shops which sell all sorts -
>>    promos , much second hand, old music papers, punk, rockabilly you name it.
>>                               
                               
		BEEN THERE       :-)          !!!!!!

    What is up with our price records ?
    They must be the most unhelpful record dealer ever.The reason for
    this complaint,I was recently in Stevenage and went into the above
    shop just to have a look around,and spotted several records mainly
    imports that I have been trying to acquire of late.I did not have
    much money on me so I thought never mind I will be able to buy the
    records in my local our price,ie Woking branch,or Basinstoke's two
    branches.This turned out to be a false belief,none of these branches
    had any of the records I had seen in stevenage.When I asked if they
    could be ordered I was told by the woking branch that they do not
    order "imports" nor would/could they get the records from the stevenage
    branch.Basingstoke could not find the records in their catalogue......
    Has anyone else had these or simular problems ?
    
    steve.
    
    I managed to order the records from Virgin records mail order service
    without any problems,they have not yet been delivered,but  the
    order process was quite painless.

    re .18....
    
    Well, no, not similar problems; but the way they catalogue the records
    in my local Our Price doesn't excatly fill me with confidence -
    for example....
    
    Miles Davis and Bob Dylan both under "Rock:B" and (this one kills
    me) Shirley Bassey under "Blues".
    
    Dave

I'm none too impressed with their cataloguing either: Reading O.P.
has Level 42 under Reggae; whereas Farnborough have them under 'Soul'.

I've not had any trouble with ordering records, they've always let me
peruse the record index book and order as many as I liked. However,
the quality of the records is pretty naff, with a lot of them warped.
Just before Christmas, more than 50% of records I bought from O.P.
I took back because of this. It's better now, I only return about 30%.

They've always changed them with no bother, but the failure rate applies
to their replaements too. I bought 'Strangeway's Here We Come' by The
Smiths, and it had a lump on it, not O.P's fault, but the replacement
was warped. So was the next replacement, and the next. When I found
that the seventh copy was still warped I got my money back. (I still
haven't heard it yet...). About half of these copies had to be ordered,
so from first parting with my money to getting it back again took about
six weeks! That's the worst case, the second worse case was getting
my money back after six copies were warped. I bought this album in
a different O.P. afterwards only to find out that was warped too. But
what really wound me up about this album was that it had a sticker
on it saying 'Special High-Quality Pressing'. It's like showing a red
rag to a bull!

Some of the records have been crackly. Kate Bush and The Police are in
my current pile of records to be returned. Katie actually jumps (or was
that Van Halen ;^) ).

I assume it's the way they store the records. The great pity is that
there are precious few other records shops around these days: Music
Market got taken over by O.P. a few years back, last year it was the
turn of all (except the Megastores) the Virgin shops. W.H.Smiths (owners
of O.P.), Woollies and Boots aren't record shops; they're shops that sell
records... It's a sorry tale of woe and despair :-(

Steve.

    
    I popped in Newbury's Smiths to see if I could buy a vinyl copy of
    Electronic's album. Imagine my horror when I couldn't find ANY vinyl
    LPs at all!!!!
    
    It seems, on consulting with Mrs S, that Godalming have also stopped
    selling vinyl, leaving the record buyer with the sinister choice of
    buying Cassettes (crap quality guaranteed!) or CDs (vast profits for
    the vendor guaranteed!).
    
    Due to this policy, I shall be doing my best not to buy any recorded
    material in Smiths from now on, even if I do buy the CD!
    
    Mark

    re-1,  It's a crime, but there are also many record shops expanding all
    over the place.  I think vinyl will stay healthy for a while, though in
    the U.S. most singles aren't released on 7" anymore and 12"s account
    for less than 1% of a singles sales, i.e. is all cassingle and CD now.
    
    
    matty

    
    Cassingles are horrible, lets hope vinyl stays around a good few years
    yet, its not quite the same buying a CD or cassette, the 12" vinyl
    format has something special about it, its the feel to the whole thing,
    the cover the size etc. (but of course size isn't important =8*) )
    
    
    Tim
    ---

    
    
    I completely agree about the reduction in vinyl output - it's a
    nightmare come true!
    I overheard a record dealer talking to this guy and he was saying how 
    a lot of second hand record dealers in the US are selling their vinyl 
    to scrap dealers who melt it down and make it into highways!
    
    Just think of all the valuable stuff that's dissapearing into roads...
    makes you cry...
    
    James

    And what about singles - try asking for anything that's not in the
    Top40 and people look at you as if you're from another planet (which
    I am anyway - Kirkintilloch).
    
    As was proved with videos, if CDs were brought down to a reasonable
    price, sales would go through the roof.   Who's going to speculate
    on a CD "just to see what it's like" ???
    
    Ray

    I will really miss the size of a 12" sleeve - it's like a painting
    compared to a postcard.
    
    matty

re .21>    

>>    Due to this policy, I shall be doing my best not to buy any recorded
>>    material in Smiths from now on, even if I do buy the CD!
    
       Mark 

       In that case you'd better avoid Our Price too. Smiths own them.

       Ian.

    
    I know, but judging from what I saw in Our Price they fall into the no
    Lps category too!
    
    Mark
    

    The worst thing about this is that it leaves Joe Public being ripped
    off by the big, monopolistic businesses again.
    
    According to "Which?" CDs actually cost half the price of a vinyl
    record to make (�1 instead of �2). This means that the profits from
    charging even the SAME price for a CD version of a recording are bigger
    for everyone. Given that they usually cost about twice as much, the
    record companies must be laughing all the way to the bank.
    
    Smacks of the same duplicity as happens with air fares, to me.
    
    
    Dave Hazel

    
    Couldn't agree more. The buyer is being well and truly screwed.
    
    The rot seems fairly widespread on further examination. Many Boots
    don't do LPs anymore and Woolworths seem to have less LPs than CDs.
    
    The only solution seems to be to stop buying Albums (on CD or tape)
    until CD prices drop to a more acceptable level, but who will have 
    the self control to see albums they want to get mount up until the
    prices fall.
    
    Only a boycott of record shops is likely to bring down the price of
    CDs. While people buy at the high price, the companies will gratefully
    accept the increased profits.
    
    Mark

    RE: CD prices etc,
    
    I blame the big record shops (our price etc). There are hundreds of
    local record shops with a decent selection of both albums and CDs
    (try getting an obscure album from one of the big chains - at the
    best, you need to wait for ages while they order it), they also
    are more specialised, indie, dance, metal, instead of trying to
    cover a wide range of music, and spreading themselves too thinly.
    
    Secondly, many of these smaller shops sell CDs at prices well below
    what the chains are selling them at, �2-3 below, and they are not 
    sub-standard either. Granted, there are still the rip-off merchants,
    but it's fairly easy to find the good ones.
    
    			Andy.

    What I don't understand is that if they're trying to phase out vinyl,
    why don't they reduce the cost of CD a little.  Then maybe more people
    would go for CD's instead.
    
    I don't want them to do that though ;-)
    
    
    matty (non-CD player owner)

    
    Presumably, as well as a bigger markup, they can get a bigger pound per
    cubic foot of shop space profit from the smaller CDs and Cassettes
    (spit, spit!).
    
    Mark

    So many people I speak to hate the thought that vinyl looks like it
    will disappear and yet the record companies continue to push other
    formats at us, I just wish there was something that we could do.
    
    Tim
    ---
    
    Bring back 78s =8*)

Re .29 (?). So where do we go to get reasonably cheap CDs? Reading only seems 
to have one independent shop, but every time I go into Listen I can't find 
anything apart from metal stuff!

I'd willingly support the smaller shops if they did sell a wide enough range.

grahame

    I have no intention of purchasing a bl**dy CD player. My record deck is
    perfectly adequate, why do I have to change. Is CD really as good as
    it's cracked up to be. I mean a supposedly perfect medium where
    silences are silent etc. So whats the point of putting the things in
    cars and how often is a house really silent, unless of course you have
    headphones.
    
    barry

Indeed, Listen records seems to have diminished in quality of late.  As far as
I know, the only onther place in Reading is the shop opposite the old railway
station (can't remember its name), which seems to stock a lot of dancy import
type stuff.

Why is there still such antipathy against CD's?  Surely the Yuppie image of them
has disappeared by now as A: the media generated idea of the Yuppie is now
another pass� fad, and B: The price of Technology is affordable to most people.
Also a previous note states that it's cheaper to produce CD's than it is to
produce vinyl, so there goes the argument of CD's forcing out the smaller indie
companies.

Granted, they are ludicrously expensive, but then again, what do you now pay for
a record or a tape?  Around �7 I think for a current release.  I agree with 
Another previous note that suggest boycotting shops, but I for one don't have 
the strength not to go out and buy the stuff.  Supply and demand and all that...

Lee (yes, a CD owner)

Never mind bring back 78's, what am I supposed to do with all these cylinders?
Give me tom-toms and smoke signals every time.

Alan Freeman

    7 quid is still cheaper than 12 quid.  And the quality of CDs is not
    all it is cracked up to be, often exposing the poor standards of
    recording (listen to Get the Message by Electronic).
    The major companies are forcing vinyl out of the market by mean means,
    and profiting.  There ought to be a 'watchdog' comittee same as for
    Telephones and Gas boards.  
    
    Mikef (yes, a CD owner)
    

I thought it was tape sales that were really edging out those yucky crackly
12" lp's, rather than just CD alone taking away album sales.

...art

    Ok, Reading is not all that hot for the smaller record shops, but
    places that I regularly stop off at on me travels:
    
    Ross Records in Portsmouth - � 10 for any single CD
    Some Metal record shop in Camberley - Great selections mainly
    Way Ahead records - Derby, Nottingham, Birmingham - IMO the BEST
    			record shops in the UK
    
    There are others (Nottingham has about 5 shops, dealing in anything
    from bootlegs to cheap CDs) are all over the place.

    
    I heard an interesting comparison of sales figures last week for
    CDs/LPs/MusiCassettes (spit, spit).
    
    I think LPs have dropped to around 11% and CDs had risen to a larger
    percentage (35%? Could be wrong.) Art is right that Cassettes are the
    big seller, but they've been around for years and it didn't kill the
    LP.
    
    I own a CD, but to be honest, I don't reckon the quality is noticeably
    better than vinyl, and I don't intend to spend �500 or more to get it
    do so (I like listening to music, but I'm not an audiophile). If CDs
    were only a pound or 2 dearer than LPs I wouldn't buy LPs, but while
    there is a c.�5 difference I'm not going to chance buying a CD when 
    I may not like it that much. I may well spend �7 on such a whim, but
    �12 is beyond my psychological barrier.
    
    Lower the price and CD sales might soar. Just kill the only real
    competition and they will, whilst the record industry can maintain
    their higher profit margins.
    
    Mark 

    Going back to Listen Records, I was in there recently trying to get 3
    new releases none of which they had, I asked whether there were delays
    on them and the guy said "no we're just crap, I want to get the new
    Elvis Costello single today and I'm going to have to buy it in Our
    Price, we're crap".  Listen used to be a really good shop, I used to
    get loads of rarities now but something seems to have gone wrong.
    
    Tim
    ---

    I agree with Tim, although I did notice on saturday in the Indie 12"
    singles section a few Creation advance Promos, esp for the new Primal
    Scream single.
    
    Mikef

	I don't really think that CDs are that much more expensive than
LPs, CDs have stayed at around 12quid for quite a few years, I remember
when lps were under a fiver (at the time of CD being 12quid). Having
said that, there's no reason (other than profiteering for CDs to be
that expensive. :-(

	There are a few mail order companies that sell new 'full-price'
CDs for less than a tenner (ads. in mags. like Q, VOX etc), and the
ones I've used usually deliver (non-chart) discs within 48hours of ordering. 

	Returning to record shops; there once was a time that I enjoyed
looking through the stuff on the racks & buying records from them; now
I find them a total waste of time...

...art

    
    I can remember CDs being under a tenner (two years ago) and LPs being
    just under �6, so the difference would appear to have WIDENED.
    
    Mark
    

	Prepare for more chaos with Philips about to push DCC (Digital Compact
	Cassette I think) whose player will be backwards compatible with the
	current cassette, and Sony who have announced they will be going
	for a kind of mini CD that will not be backwards compatible with
	existing disc players. There was an article about this formats
	nightmare in the Sunday Times which noted how major format developers
	have acquired record labels in order to force the use of their formats.
	Two examples quoted were Sony and CBS, Philips and Polygram.
	

	Eck.

    re .39 I think)
    
    Good idea Mike. If we set up a watchdog organisation for the record/cd
    manufacturing industry similar to those for BT and British Gas, then
    the manufacturers will be guaranteed such large profits that they will
    cut the price of CDs ;-)
    
    Short of raising the awareness of the CD buying part of Joe Public, I'm
    not sure that there's much we can do.
    
    Hey, wait a minute! Why not hijack the lorries which deliver CDs to
    distributors and dealers. Set up the 'Hole in the Middle Gang'. Or hold
    them for ransom until the manufacturers cut their prices.
    
    Can't you see it. We send threatening letters to EMI along the lines
    of:
    
    "If you want to see your CD production for April again, cut the High
    Street price of CDs to �5. Just to show we mean business, here are the
    case inserts."
    
    Seriously though, if anyone can think of a method of applying pressure
    on the manufacturers, I'll give my wholehearted support.
    
    Balders

    
    RE: Mail order
    
    I've just obtained a couple of current CDs mail order for 9.99 each,
    from BeeBees - the phone number is in ASICS::CSWAP_UK towards the end
    somewhere.
    
    I agree that we're probably being ripped off on CD prices (look at the
    US prices, for example), but there doesn't seem to be much we can do
    about it - the industry seems to be immune to criticism from people
    like the Consumer's Association, so what chance have you or I got ?
    
    Trevor

    Re .47:  I too saw an article about the new music formats which are set
    to be foisted upon us next year, Phillips' digital cassette and Sony's
    mini-disc. For me the most worrying aspect was that both these
    companies now own major record labels, so when they release the new
    formats they can back them up with available music. But who's going to
    be available? It'll be the Rod Stewarts and Tina Turners of this world,
    not half the bands that get discussed in here. Also, as a consumer I'd
    be wary of investing in a new format that is itself liable to be made
    obsolete in a few years.
    
    I remember that when CD appeared, the argument I've used above (will
    keep out small bands) was used against it. Does anyone know whether
    this happened or not? Because despite my comments I seem to see a lot
    of Indie music on CD these days. 
    
    I'll still be very sad if vinyl disapppears, since LPs are much more
    enjoyable objects than CDs, or indeed any other format. I don't think
    they lose on quality to anything, although they are prone to damage.
    Lee (some notes back) doesn't understand this since he's so young that
    he's bought all his music on CD. He doesn't have a decade or more of
    music on vinyl that he thinks he'd like to keep on playing. Let's hear
    him when they phase out CDs...
    
    FWIW, these are my worries about LPs/CDs/other formats:
    
    - Our opinions (music-buyers) don't matter to anyone who matters
    - We're being cynically screwed for maximum profit
    - The cost of getting music recorded will rise, so small bands will
      find it harder to get started.
    
    
    Rod

This note has generated quite a bit of activity over the past few days!

I'm in the US and prefer CDs over vinyl.  The sound quality is noticeably
better that it's worth the extra cost.  I believe it is this perceived
difference that holds up the price of CDs even though they may be cheaper to
produce than vinyl.  Actually, I'd like to see the figures for that, but
whether or not they're cheaper, I believe they're still overpriced.

In the states, CD prices have been dropping in general.  The best way to
encourage lower prices is to buy where prices are lowest.  I can usually get
new releases for under $11 or $12 at Newbury Comics in the Boston area.  The
only way I'll pay more is if the CD is hard-to-get.  I usually get catalog CDs
from Noteworthy, a mail-order place in New Hampshire.

DON'T BUY CDs AT OVERPRICED RIP-OFF PLACES.  There is nothing more disguisting
(well, I could think of a few things) than going to a mall chain store and
seeing not only do they mostly have Madonna and Billy Joel records, but the one
cool record they do have is some ridiculous price.  I NEVER give these places my
business.

I would comment on the price of vinyl in the US but it's been so long since I've
seen any...

Paul

    $12 for a CD...spit fume jealous...
    
    As for sound quality, its more a reflection of what system you have. 
    If you have a cheaper record player/music centre  or whatever, with a
    stylus that hasn't been changed for two years, the perceived sound
    quality of a CD will be better - thats obvious!!  But if you look after
    your system, and your records, the difference ain't huge.  I bought
    quite an 'upmarket' CD player two months ago,and though the sound
    quality is very good, it isn't that much different to my record player.
    
    
    What CDs do stop is the smaller end of the 'indie' market - eg if I
    wanted to record and put out a single myself, I couldn't afford the
    charges for putting it on CD.
    
    Mikef

Well another US view and one of the advantages of CD over vinyl is the fact
that the sound doesn't deteriorate with repeated playings. Nor does the
cover get marred, etc.

I'll agree with you mikef about indie bands being hurt but lotsa stuff is
getting put on CD and some of the obscure re-issues are surprising even me.
Indie bands may have to "band" together to put say 4 bands on an EP or
whatever but small labels are getting stuff on CD.

As for the influx of other formats - this scares me...why can't they make
things upward compatible? Who wants magtape anyway be it digital, it can
still break or get caught in the mechanism which reminds me of one other
advantage of CDs - no maintenance. No cleaning the vinyl/anti-static mess or
cleaning the heads or demagnatizing.

Ed

re. indie unavailability on CD

funny thing is that some companies are now releasing classical music on CD 
only, so it's not only small idie bands that are losing out...


...art

   There's only one problem with CD's which makes me prefer cassettes:
   you can't record onto a CD as you can with cassettes.

   Jane.

Yet. But it's damn close.

    
    Those American noters who reckon we're getting upset over nothing are 
    missing the point, I think.
    
    CDs are over twice the price in the UK that they are in the US. Even
    allowing for getting them cheap (where?), they are still a lot more
    than the equivalent LP.
    
    Ignore the discussion of sound quality (this may just be the march
    of progress), but someone is obviously ripping us British record
    buyers off badly, and killing the only real alternative to CDs just
    leaves the way open for them to rip us off even more.
    
    Anyone want to bet against a �15 CD once LPs are all but unobtainable?
    
    Mark

    The price difference between the US and UK for CDs reminds me of the
    price difference for PCs and software. Seems that all hi-tech stuff is
    sold in the UK at rip-off prices.
    
    My experience of the difference in sound quality between vinyl and CDs
    comes from the time just over a year ago when I bought a new amplifier
    for my hi-fi system. The new one was of much better quality than the
    old one, and it also allowed my CD player (which is on a portable
    radio-cassette-CD player) to be plugged into the main sound system.
    Result: the "old" record player now sounds better than the CD player,
    even when played through the same sound system.
    
    I think you have to pay for sound quality, regardless of the medium
    used.
    
    
    Dave Hazel

    Not just the UK - it seems to be Europe wide.
    
    Most French shops sell CDs at $20-30. The same in Switzerland. The same
    in the UK. Holland's a bit cheaper, but not much.
    
    Piers

I was talking to somebody today about this - there are some records that just 
sound good on vinyl.  Some decent old Blues and Jazz just has to have that 
crackle and spit.  And can you imagine buying Never Mind The B*ll*cks on CD?  
Doesn't bear thought...

What I can see happening is there being a large selction of digital type 
media around - DAT, CD's, mini-CD's, sugar-cubes (this was on Tomorrow's 
World a couple of weeks ago, the first solid state medium), plus ordinary 
tapes will hang around (I don't think too many people will be willing to put 
CD's in their car, plus of course Home taping [It's Killing Music BTW])

Sad, but I think vinyl will go in the end with only small retailers stocking 
second hand stuff.

Paul

P.S. I can think of a hundred things that LP covers are useful for, that you 
could never do on a CD cover.

    >Most French shops sell CDs at $20-30. The same in Switzerland.
    
    Eeeek-gads!  I can't imagine paying that much for a CD.
    
    There are a lot of used record stores in LA that sell a huge bulk
    of promo CDs/Cass/lps which they get from people who work in the
    entertainment industry (who, contrary to popular belief, are grossly
    underpaid...so it makes them feel good to undermind their employer
    by selling the promos.)  It allows the few of us non-entertainment
    industry employees to purchase brand new CDs/Cass/lps at bargin
    prices.  ($6-$9 for CDs, $3-$5 for tape/lp)  The only time I buy
    "new" CDs is when they're on sale & I really want it (lowest sale price
    is usually $11.75.) 
    
    If I really don't know the band that well, or don't love them to
    death, I'll buy the tape...used/promo that is.  (I stopped buying
    lps `cause I spend so much time in my car, that I'd never hear
    the stuff if I didn't buy it on tape.  But I do miss them 8..{   
                     
    -Vicki

Is it possible that you folks (or is it blokes) ;-) in the UK pay more for your
CDs than I pay for a UK import?  Clan of Xymox costs $16-18 here as an import. 
If you pay more than that in the UK, someone's laughing all the way to the bank.

Ironic, really, that you seem to pay the highest prices when your country
produces the *BEST* music!

Paul

I'm not sure Clan Of Xymox are from the UK.

Nitpicker.

Oh, you mean there's not just one big country over there on the other side of
the pond?   ;�)

Yes, I think Xymox are from Denmark.  But my original point stands:  if I pay a
premium price for an import, and it's cheaper than in its country of origin,
something is rotten...

Actually, the overpricing of CDs is similar to Digital's overpricing of VMS
systems.  It's a premium product and we charge a premium price for it.  The
problem is, the price was *too* premium and lately we've realized that and cut
prices on VAXes so they're more price competitive.  We found that people weren't
willing to pay so much more.  Maybe the same thing will happen with the
competition CDs will get with some of the new formats.

Paul

    the thought of the CD replacing the LP makes me sick.
    
    Like a previous noter said - some records sound better on vinyl. 
    I would venture as far as to say that records sound better on vinyl but
    I'm biassed in the extreme as I only collect old records.
    What I can't get over is that most of the record buying public has just
    taken on the idea that "CD is better than vinyl because it doesn't
    scratch, etc" which is exactly what the record producing companies have
    said. 
    It seems like they haven't questioned the motives and are quite
    prepared to be ripped of for the extra �5 or whatever because they 
    
    `get the quality of sound that they always really really wanted from 
    vinyl... really we did...honestly'
    
    I shall continue my personal crusade of not ever buying that CD crap
    until I fall over with the weight of my collection of _vinyl_. Then I'll
    go down the bank and get another overdraft for a few more.
    
    
    AND
    what about all the DJs and mixers who need vinyl to produce new sounds?
    You can't use a CD to do that can you? That leaves you with two choices
    
    	* wait until the CD mixing machine comes on the market (yes it does
          exist but you press a button to do a `wiggy wiggy' bit in your
    	  mix). Sounds like a load of crap to me!
    
    	* cut Illegal acetates of any tracks you want to mix. This is a bit
    	  of a pain as they wear out quick but the major nuisance is it's
    	  illegal (not that that ever stopped any self respecting record
    	  junkie! ;^)
    
    James.

    
    Re .65
    
    Sounds like the best ever arguement FOR CDs! :^)
    
    Mark

    CDs sound (marginally) better, depending on the quality of the sound
    system (as someone remarked already, on v good systems they can sound a
    lot better).

    (More boring facts:) They cost more. They're less liable to be damaged.

    LPs are definitely on the way out. There's nothing at all strange about
    this, even if it is sad. Waging personal wars against CDs will not slow
    the pace of change much (even if that action is welcome). I don't think
    that that is being "passive", it just seems realistic. Change and new
    product will always be with us.

    Apart from the price issue, I don't see what the fuss is about. Times
    change and all that.

    - Tim
    

    The pace of change is set more by the profit interest of the Record
    companies and shops, rather than by natural evolution.
    
    And on V. Good systems, records sound a whole lot better.
    
    Mikef (and I own a CD player!)

    re .66,
    
    Methinks that you're right about mixing as it's not my type of music
    _at_all_ but some people love it and to take that away from them is wrong.
    
    re .67
    
 >   this, even if it is sad. Waging personal wars against CDs will not slow
 >   the pace of change much (even if that action is welcome). I don't think
 >   that that is being "passive", it just seems realistic. Change and new
 >   product will always be with us.
    
    
    Completely true, it will do bugger all to the replacement of vinyl by
    me not buying cds but it makes me feel a hell of a lot better.
    It's an irrational hate but vinyl is the only media I consider to be
    worth my hard earned cash and I'll pay through the nose for it.
    I don't get this fanatical about it all the time... it's just
    reading this string reminds me of the lack of any say we have over what 
    is available to buy that gets to me.
    
    
    >             -< ...hope this doesn't get me in trouble... >-
    It's everyones choice what they [buy], wear, say, etc....
    
    [buy] = optional
    
    So, I've had my rant! Now I'll go and sit in my record collecting hole
    of a cube and get on with some work.
    
    
    James

    >>     And on V. Good systems, records sound a whole lot better.

    Sounds like heresy to me Mikef. If it's possible for anyone to uhh
    "scientifically" prove this� then quite soon you'll probably have the
    scene just the way some people want it; LPs everywhere - even in Smiths!

    - Tim

     � There must be some agreed yardstick(s) for measuring sound quality.
       If this has already been done (by some consumer magazine for example)
       and LPs proved to be better, it will make my day (really).
     

    Sound Quality is subjective.  You can apply scientific tests, but the
    only true measurement has to be what your ears prefer.  If you read any
    HiFi mags, they always have Lab and Listening ratings, which often
    don't tie up.  This is the problem at the root of many a CD vs Vinyl
    discussion, as you can see from earlier replies. I've listened to a lot of 
    very good systems, and vinyl always has the edge for me.  And fr many
    lab tests also reading the mags.
    
    I'm not knocking  CD as a source, I think its a lot better to tape, but
    blind following of CD won't do anyone any good.
    
    later
    
    Mikef

    I visited the world of hi-fi-enthusiasm for a short while. I found it's 
    full of people listening to hand-carved cartridges, perspex turntables,
    hexagonal speaker cabinets and vacuum sealed cables.

    Never found anybody listening to any music though.

    Dave

    I certainly wouldn't want to hear my rare copy of The Damned's New Rose 
    on CD. Problem is I don't much want to hear it on vinyl these days
    either. Phil Collins is more my kind of thing.
    
    Piers
    

    The only way anyone who wants records can get a message across to
    retailers is to ask for what you want on LP, ordering if required. I
    have found  my local Our Price very helpful in this respect; I browse
    the CD racks until I find something I want to add to my collection and
    ask if it's available on vinyl. If it isn't I check the CD price, and 
    if it's outrageous (most are) I do without. Let's face it, the retailer
    has to return a profit per sq.ft. of store space, and if they can do
    that by not stocking LPs they will, even if they only sell half as many
    CDs as they used to sell LPs, because of the price.
    
    The only way to keep records available is to convince retailers and
    labels they can still make money out of it. Some labels realise this;
    they are producing LPs of superb quality, but it will eventually become
    a high price high quality specialist medium, like DAT is now. I
    recently paid 9.16 for Pat Benetar's True Love on LP, but the pressing,
    sleeve quality and artwork are a pleasure to behold, and the sound is
    excellent.
    
    What really sickens me is the plebs from the BPI who insist on
    repeating the various myths about non-availability of records. Most
    stuff can be had if you're patient enough to order; but then I suppose
    we live in an increasingly "I Want It Now" society. It demonstrates how
    well we can be manipulated by vested interests.
    
    To those who think CD sounds better than LP, no matter what you
    quality the record player, I challenge you to bring
    your CD player, whatever its price point, and some CDs around to my
    house. I'll supply the records and the six-packs 8^)
    
    Dave_who_just_about_tolerates_a_CD_player_in_his_system.
    .

   Re .75

   Adrians Records in Wickford, Essex do mail order, I think, and have a 
   lot of 'golden oldies' records/cassettes/cds.  I think they also produce
   their own catalogue.  Their number is 0268 733318.

   Jane.

    Do fox-hunters listen to "pop music" then?

	Not sure if this is the right place, perhaps a mod can move it
	if not...

	Can anyone recommend either a record/cd shop that does mail
	order cds from a comprehensive catalogue, or a record/cd club
	that actually covers more than one label and not just latest
        releases/token oldies?

	Any suggestions appreciated,

	JJ.
    

    
    Dunno, would you like me to ask one for you?
    
    JJ.

can someone tell me which tube station Tower Records is near?
and do they still open late night?

ta,

...art

    Isn't it near the place witrh the statue of a guy with a bow and arrow? 
    Picadilly or soemsuch.
    
    mikef

    
    Yeah, that's the one.  In fact, in the proper frame of mind,
    I would think it possible to come out their front door and fall
    down the tube station steps (if my memory serves me correct).
    
    Sue

    
    I think that HMV in Oxford Street is bigger, if big is what you're
    after.

thanks all, it was the late opening shop that I was after as i was in London
late on Friday evening,


...art

    I was in Our Price earlier, and noticed that the top 20 albums listed
    Spinal Tap in the number "0" slot _above_ the number 1 slot.
    
    What is the purpose of this new "position" and what would qualify
    Spinal Tap to fill it ?
    
    Roy

    re: -1
    
    >What is the purpose of this new "position" and what would qualify
    >Spinal Tap to fill it ?
    
    It's obviously a joke.  And a very funny one.  (Like the extra long
    box.)  Have you seen the movie?  It will explain the logic behind it.
    
    -Vicki

    �It's obviously a joke.
    
    Oops! Am I the victim of an April fool joke ?
    
    R

Well you,see, other charts go to one, and then there's nowhere else to go,
so if another record sells more, you have nowhere else to put it. So this
chart goes up to zero.

Why not move the other records down one place?

No, this chart goes up to zero.

+Mark+

    Nigel Tufnell, the man with an amp that goes up to 11. Have you seen
    his new guitar? Built in the shape of a Marshall stack. Fabulous.
    
    barry.
    

    Shit sandwich.

    'Guitarist' has a few pictures of his new new guitar.
    
    It is yellow with flames painted on.  A speedo to show you how fast
    your are playing.  Notes written on the frets so you know what you are
    playing.  Volume knobs shaped like tyres.  Chrome tailpipes.  About 9
    pickups (well as many as you can fit between the bridge and the neck).
    
    Also a guitar lead with a plug shaped like a spark plug with 'Botch
    Platinum' written on it, and when you plug it in, the speedo lights
    up!!

    
    There's a 6 page section in yesterdays Independent on Sunday, listing
    the results of their cheaper CDs campaign. They list lots of
    independent shops and mail order places that give discounts. However,
    the only shop listed for Reading is a second hand place somewhere on
    the Oxford Road. There doesn't even seem to be anywhere good in Oxford,
    which I found quite surprising.
    
    There's an interesting comparison of the quoted price for several
    albums from several different shops. Unsurprisingly, Our Price were
    consistently the most expensive. HMV were the cheapest of the big
    chains, I think. The cheapest were either BeeBees, who also do mail
    order, and some place in Portsmouth.
    
    Trevor

>and some place in Portsmouth.
    
Probably Ross Records... great value!

								- JIM CAD*		

Hello everybody,

I know that since Joanne of Arc there are still some
little problems to fix between french and english people
:^) but would you mind to help a little frenchie that is 
going to spend one week-end in London ?

I'd like to find (different) record shops meeting the
following (incompatible) criteria :

- low price CDs
- rare 60's and 70's singles
- bootlegs CDs
- averagely hard-to-find-in-France mythical bands like
the Flamin'Groovies, Ed Kuepper, ...


Does anyone know some good record shops in London 
(I'm sure there must be plenty of them).

Thanks in advance for any info,

Didier

There's a couple of record shops in Kensington Market that hold quite a range of
bootleg CD's (+ albums + tapes).  One in the basement and one on the first floor
that I know of.  High Street Kensington Tube.  Don't know about your other
requests though.  What's a low-price-CD?

Lee

    For Low priced CD's , dont stop in England , but keep going until you
    find the USofA.
    
    Nigel
    (Just back from the US where I bought a load of CD's at 9.99 (Dollars))

    Try Selectadisc and Sister Ray both on Berwick St just off Oxford St.
    
    Also for Oz and NZ music the best shop is the Rough Trade shop either
    in Neal's Yard Covent Garden or Ladbroke Grove.
    
    Martin

	There's a place selling cheap CDs and records just off the
	Charing Cross Road in Newport Place, Chinatown.

		p1

I'll tell you about the gems I will have found !

Thanks,

Didier

    I went into HMV in Reading at lunchtime, and had a quick look through
    their current special offer racks: "CDs 11.99 each or 2 for 20". There
    were a couple of things there that I wouldn't have minded picking up
    for a tenner each (Pavement, and The The). Unfortunately, there weren't
    any copies of the The The disc left in the special offer rack, so I
    picked one up out of the main rack, still priced at 11.99.

    The bloke on the till refused to sell me the two discs for 20 pounds,
    because the The The disc didn't have the "two for twenty" sticker on
    it, even though it was marked at the same price as it was in the
    promotion ! So, I didn't bother to buy either of them. It all just
    steels my resolve never to by CDs from the major record shops other
    than in desparate circumstances.

    Trevor

    
    I happened to walk through the arcade� between Broad Street and Friar
    Street on Saturday, and found that there's a now small record/CD shop
    in there, called Green River Records (well, Green Something Records,
    anyway). The bloke said that they'd been there for about 6 months.
    Anyway, they sell mainly independent music, and he indicated that
    they'd try to at least match prices from the major stores. They seemed
    to have a lot of dance/rave stuff on vinyl, as well as the more
    traditional indie chart type of thing.
    
    So, no more excuses for buying from the majors in Reading !
    
    Trevor
    
    � The arcade in question is the one that runs between the side of Marks
    & Spencers on Friar Street and what used to be Next on Broad Street.

    Said market is called 'Market Way'. 

This shop just opened in the last couple of weeks.  They are located at the top
of town in Basingstoke, in between Griggs(?) pie shoppe and the Post-Office.

They don't have a huge stock; when I looked it was the standard current chart
type stuff, but the prices are typically �10.45 per disc.  Once you have made one
purchase at the labelled price you can become a card-holder (free) and get 
discounts on subsequent purchases (e.g. brings single CD down to �9.95).

They claim to be able to order stuff that's not in stock, but I don't know how
well that works.

Worth a look.

nick

	W.E.M have been mentioned before in here, they have just moved
	to the town centre from the Loddon industrial estate. They are also 
	the people who arranged lunchtime sales in the Crescent and Viables
	earlier this year.

	They do only keep a small stock, but you can order anything that 
	appears in Music Master. They ring you up when it is in and it only 
	takes a few days. I wouldn't buy CD's anywhere else now.

	If anyone wants a trade account application form (and therefore 
	waive the requirement of buying the first CD at full price) send me
	a mail.

	Ian.

	Incidentally, one of the justifications for CD prices being higher in
	the UK is that (unlike America) shops don't have them on sale-or-
	return. Keeping small stocks of the most popular releases is
	presumably one way these places keep the costs down.

    
    They are *very* helpful! . In my case my  Order took 3 days and they 
    asked if I wanted the CD's  posted  out to me on arrival,at no extra 
    cost ! ( this was when they were on the Industrial Estate) 

    In every instance so far CD's bought from them are between 50p-�4.00
    cheaper  than in the shops ,and that includes Virgin.
    	
    They hold a limited stock in the shop ,but are open from 9am-7pm Mon.
    to Sat.  ,and also plan a " retrospective discount structure" . They 
    will also order back catalogue & Imports (not tried this one yet)...
    No, I'm not on comission , just very impressed !!!!!!
    
    Like Ian , I haven't  bought a CD elsewhere since ; however  I guess 
    the lure of Virgin/OP/HMV etc will still be there...................
    ......at Sale time :-}
	
    
    Sandie.../
    
    
    

    re. last couple
    
    Does this shop operate by mail order?  Would you know the number?
    
    TA
    
    Mikef

    
    
    ....Don't know about mail order, their 'phone no. is 
    0256 52772 /52773  
    
    Sandie.../
    

    
    Coda Music in Edinburghs Waverly Market. Several chart CD at a tenner
    each (Phil Collins, Kate Bush, can't remember the others). Also a good
    range of cut price CDs (6.99). A good alternative to the big names.
    
    
    
    
    Derek.

    Another vote for W.E.M. in Basingstoke. Just been told that the double
    CD I ordered 3 days ago has arrived, for the pricely sum of 11.95.
    
    Dave.