Conference 7.286::sports_90

This Sunday nights game should be a great one... Both teams play each other
well and this is a must win for the RAIDERS!!!!
It's on ESPN so all you East coast folk's can watch a real team play football!!
Remember to wear your Silver & Black on Sunday!!!!

Monty

    
    You got it Monty, not a bad year for seeing the RAIDERS on TV. I'm
    from New England and now work in Delaware. I've been a RAIDERS fan
    my whole life. I never wrote in the old conference, figured I'd
    get in fresh here. I've seen better than half the games this year
    on TV, lucky year. Well you can bet I'll be wearing my Silver &
    Black Sunday night, GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!1
    
    Todd

    The dark side huh..............
    
    Imagine a Darth Vaderesque voice:  Monty, you hoser, I'm your Dad!
    
    :^)
    
    Clay

    Yea,  so like, all the bowling alleys were closed so I spent most
    of my time looking for beer
    
    Big Game

 All you Raider addicts beware, the NY Giants will stuff y'all for
    XMAS eve ham !!!   HA... HA...    

    I have had a silver car for years, I just purchased a black one.
    Until I saw them parked together in the driveway, it didn't dawn
    on me, I must be a closet Raiders fan.
    
                                  Steve J.

    
    Looks like the Raiders season ended last night..  
    
    Where's the Giants game being played next week?  
    
    

    It's L.A. Radiers at NY GIANTS.  Giants are favored by 7 on the
    opening line.

    Are the Raiders elimnated now?
    
    JoJ

    not yet.  don't even ask me what has to happen for them to enter,
    but i have to think that at 8-7 they atleast have a better chance
    than seattle (7-8) who is also still in the race going into the
    last game.

    If they win @ the Giants next week, they're in.
    
    Claybone

    Hey, where's Hooter at?  I figured he'd be in here complaining
    about the Donk refs working their game.  IMHO, Bo scored!
    Since the sports math note didn't make it over, here's one:
    
    		Rory Graves = Gerald Perry
    
    Claybone

      The Raiders will be home for the holidays!!!!

    
    Raiders in the playoffs? Only if they win Sunday and the Colts and
    the Browns lose. So Saturday night the Oilers play the Browns in
    the house of dames, this is the only time I'll cheer for the Oilers.
    Lets hope theres still something to cheer for on Sunday.
    
    Todd

    Seems like those 2 or three players Al needs to turn it
    around are a left tackle, a qb and a 16 game season superstar
    back. With the annual pre-arrival hype of Bo starting, has he
    ever really had a big impact?  He has had some big plays but
    many players have had big plays too.  The 2 or three times I've
    seen him this season, he seemed to have  been only a cut above average.  
    Please refresh my memory.
    
    BoB

    The Raider's season ended on Sunday in Seattle. They will mail in
    the final game in frigid Giants Stadium,losing 26-7. Bo can't wiat
    for Spring Training.BTW,if KC's off season acquisiitons put them
    over the top,Bo will be gone for even more games next year.

    
    I don't think last night's game helped the Raiders any, either.
    The Giants now have a lot more to play for.
    
    Bruce 

    
    Raiders in the playoffs???
    
    Now thats a new twist.
    
    They weren't eliminated Sunday night,  they've technically
    been eliminated since 1984.  Maybe they'll be the team of the
    '90s.
    
    Too bad Harden isn't enjoying this year with the Broncos.  He is the
    only Silver&Black member I feel sorry for.
    
    
    Russ

       I agree with ya Russ.  I still say Harden is better than Henderson. 
    Of course Henderson hasn't had the experience Harden does,  but Harden
    puts on a bigger hit...ask Largent.
    
      Bo will call football quits...He can't play both games tooooo long.
    
    
    		Tj

    
    Harden? Oh brother! He is THE weak link in their defense. He doesn't
    fill on running plays and is usually late arriving to the ball on
    passing plays. The only reason he is playing is due to the unbelievable
    number of injuries the RAIDERS have had at the safety position this
    year. Vann McElroy got some playing time last week and played well.
    Unfortunately, Eddie Anderson was injured (I don't know his status) so
    Harden will probably start again this week.
    
    BTW, Harden and Henderson play different positions. Denver was forced
    to play Harden out of position at CB a few times due to lack of talent
    at that position and/or injuries but Harden is a safety, Henderson a
    CB.
    
    I expect Bo to quit football after next season. He is up for a new
    contract with KC and will use football as a bargaining tool. KC will
    give him a whole herd of zeros on his new contract.
    
                                                    HOOT
    

    ANYWAYS, WHO'S THE raiders PLAYING IN THE SUPER BOWL THIS TIME? :*)
    
    COWBOY
    

    
    You are right, Steven. The front seven and the good man-to-man job done
    by the corners covers up for Harden. It's kind of hard to call McElroy
    their best DB since he has been injured most of the year. He is their
    best safety but Eddie Anderson would have to be called their best
    safety this year. Terry McDaniel is their best corner/cover man.
    Barring injury, he is going to be a star.
    
                                                    HOOT
    

    
    I agree with ya Hoot about McDaniel, he is the one player on the team
    that I would love to trade for.
    
    mike

    RAIDERS are gonna kill the Giants, 24-7.
         
    Carlos.
    
    Ok ...Ok, so maybe I am a little overzealous, but they are gonna
    win.                  

    
    keep dreaming
    

    
    But Steven, what about those nasty chilly breezes blowing in from the
    Pacific? 
    
    
    I'll be rooting for the RAIDERS but, I hate to say it, I doubt if they
    can win this one. If they were home or the temp. was above freezing
    they can beat the Giants. They have only had one game this year where
    they were never in it, @Houston. Hopefully, this won't be the second.
    Alot will depend on Saturday night. If Houston beats the Browns, that
    could fire up the RAIDERS knowing that a win very well could put them
    in the playoffs since Indy will, more than likely, lose in New Orleans.
    If Cleveland wins on Sat. I think they will just want to get it over
    with and get home, knowing they have no chance at the playoffs.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
    Maybe next year for the Raiders!!!
    
    But I seriously doubt it!!
    
    Go Broncs!!  Take State!!
    
    Russ

    
    I don't think this will be a rout, but the Giants should control
    the game.  With the weather predicted for gameday, I expect the
    Giants to go into their ball control gameplan, much like the Dallas
    game.
    
    Bruce

    News Flash ..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
     Many Raider players seen packing thier bags at Raider Central
    today.  
    
      
    
      After an interview with "Uncle "AL" Davis" in which he
    was quoted as saying....  "We have absolutly no chance at the 
    playoffs this year".  "We are the sorryest excues for a Pro ball
    club I've seen in all my years in football".  "Even if we luck
    out and back into the playoffs we'll get our asses handed to us
    in the first game".  "Thats the reason I've instructed our players
    to clean out their lockers of everything except what they'll need
    for this weekends disaster and start making plans for the off 
    season".  "Even Hoot Gibson's rabbid backing of this sorry ball club
    won't be enough to get us as much as one more victory this season".
    
     After the interview, Uncle "AL" Davis was seen on wall street 
    selling shares of Raider stock for 25 cents on the dollar.  One
    would think this might be a sign of things to come for the lowly
    Raiders and their fans...
    
    
    Film At 11:00
    
    
    Big Game

    hahahahhahahahhhhahahhhhahahahaaahaah!!!!

    Howie Long must be using Brain Bozworths marketing concepts. The Guy
    plays 2 games like a man possesed all season and that earns him a
    Pro-Bowl berth ???
    
    I agree that if Howie played the whole season like he did vs. Denver
    and Seattle he would without a doubt be a Pro-Bowl starter. This guy
    has only started 4 games this season. 
    
    Jeff  

    Re. .32 ... a note like this just proves the point that Cactus Jack is
    one of the greatest noters ever to enter this conference! His very
    astute and critical analysis is beyond question ...
    
    -- JB

    
    Jeff,
    Quick, delete .34 before too many people see it because the only thing
    truthful in it is that Long played great against Denver and Seattle.
    Where did you come up with the "he only started 4 games" line? That's a
    good one! How many games have you seen him play? My guess is 2, Denver
    and Seattle. Bill Walsh, "After a couple of off years and injuries
    which Long took alot of heat from the media, Howie Long has reinstated
    himself as the best defensive lineman in the NFL today."
    
                                                   HOOT
    

      Best defensive lineman???  I'm confused on that!!!  I say Millard of
    the Vikes is the best!!  18 or 19 sacks!!  How many does Howie (I
    lucked out for pro bowl this year) have???  4 or 5 maybe??  He did have
    2 good games.  Is he the only faider to make it??  Gee Bo didn't make
    it though...I guess Bo knows no pro bowl!!
    
      The Jints should do it this weekend.
    
    		Tj

    
    Timmy and Hoot, Bill Walsh covers the AFC so he must hype the players
    of the girly-mon conference. Millard isn't even the best lineman on his
    team, Doleman is.
    
    mike

    Howie is better than any linemen the jints have too.  IMHO,
    Michael Dean Perry is the best DL this year.  That's right
    brown(stain) fans!  I really said it.
    
    Claybone

    Howies washed up.............  ;^)
    
    Big Game

    Hoot,
    Denver played the Raiders in the 3rd game this year Howie was
    injured before that game so he might have started the season 
    opener that's 1 game
    
    Howie came back from his injury week 10 as a FULL TIME STARTER. 
    
    
    This means I was completely wrong he Started 6 games before the
    Pro-bowl ballot.
    
    Quite a marketing job for Howie..
    
    Don't get me wrong I feel that Howie is playing the best he has in
    years but a 6 game mid-season rest doesn't make my pro bowl list.
    This stuff is starting to look like the NBA All Star games with Kareem. 
    
    Jeff 

    
    You are wrong, Jeff. Howie only missed three games. Off hand, I don't
    know how many sacks he has. But he is not their "sack man", Greg
    Townsend is. If sacks are the main criteria, why isn't he there? He
    lead the AFC last year, 2nd in the league, and is near the top again.
    Howie does much more, like collapsing the whole side of the line. I
    have seen most of their games this year and Howie has had an
    outstanding season. Anyone that claims that he has had only two good
    games doesn't have the slightest idea of what they are talking about.
    The only games he did not start were @Denver, Seattle, @Jets and KC.
    He played most of the KC game and has started every game since. Your
    claim that he "came back from his injury week 10 as a FULL TIME
    STARTER" is absolutely, irrefutably, inequitably not true.
    
                                                    HOOT

    Okay Hoot He came back week 10 as a man on a mission (my contract is up
    and I need more money than Haynes is paying me now). 
    
    If sacks were a measuremnt of Pro-bowl Bruce Smith wouldn't be a
    starter.
    
    Jeff 

    Santa:  Well tell me Al, what is it you want for Christmas?
    Al:     Believe me Santa, what I want you cant give me.
    Santa:  Ho Ho Ho! Don't be such a grouch little Al. Things 
            can't be that bad.
    Al:     Sure! Easy for you to say. Here we are on the verge of
            sports greatness througout time and I can't even buy
            a winning record let alone a playoff spot. 
    Santa:  Have you thought about a new coach maybe? I could provide that.
    Al:     No, I've tried that coaching revolving door trick. You 
            just end up footing the salaries of too many incompitants.
    Santa:  How about a change of cities?  A new location could maybe
            start to turn things around?
    Al:     No.  The public is starting to wise up to me on that one. 
            I've been schemeing so long on that ploy that even I don't
            believe it any more.
    Santa:  How about some draft picks?  
    Al:     Well now your talkin big guy.  What can you offer?
    Santa:  What do you need?
    Al:     I need 10.
    Santa:  10 what?
    Al:     10 Billion dollars to buy the first 10 picks in the first
            round for the next 10 years.  That'll get us back on track.
    Santa:  I'm not into giving large summs of money.
    Al:     See you later fat man and don't give me any of that 'happy
            new year' stuff either.  This new year is shaping up to be any
            better than the last 5 or 6. Hey! That's right. It's the tooth
            fairy that carries all the cash!  You have here number
            Santa?
    
    BoB

    Re;-.1
    
     I found it so.......  I think thats probably a pretty close 
    description of how Al would sound on Santa's lap. 
    
    Big Game

    
    Beat me to it, Mike. 
    
    
    Wrong again, Jeff. (This is getting to sound like a broken record.
    Kind of like Reeves whining every year about why half of his team
    wasn't chosen for the Pro Bowl)
     
    Howie is not up for a new contract. He signed a large one before last
    year that should be his last. There are three or 4 more years on it.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    What the Raiders need is a quality QB. They can play tough defense,
    and with just a little threat of a passing game Bo, Marcus and Steve
    Smith would probably be near the top in rushing. Everyone in the
    league knows that the vaunted Raider passing game now inhales.
    With Willie Gault, Swervin' Mervyn Fernandez, and nexted year Tim
    Brown, and TE Dave Dyal, the Raiders have a receiving corp that
    can match up with any in the league. Now if only they good get the
    ball to them... So I think Al is asking Santa for the right trade
    to come around. Maybe Frank (3-0 this year) Reich will become available
    from Buffalo. Maybe Chris Miller from Atlanta. Everyone has a price.
    Maybe Al can find the right circumstances and pull off a biggie.
    Also, I think the best thing for the Raiders would be to get back
    to Oakland. No more LA beaches or parties. Back to Raider-type,
    blue-collar, rough and rowdy Art Shell-era type football. The Raiders
    have one of best histories in the NFL so maybe in 2-3 yrs. they
    can get back to where they belong. 
    			Raider_Rich
    
    

    
    Minor correction: it's Mike Dyal.
    
    
    Rats! .48 was set hidden before I got to see it. It's a safe bet that
    it was a rude/crude donk fan blowing steam. Could you send it to me?
    
                                                    HOOT
    

    Hoot,  the Raiders sip lightly  They will be home for the 
    holidays...   Merry Christmas
    
    
    Big Game
    
    P.s. Howies washed up.  the only reason he has made it this
        long is because his wife cut him off years ago.  I heard 
    him and Dexter Manly were seen outside the whithouse selling 
    matches.....
    

    re Needing a QB.
    
    Doug Williams will probably be on the unprotected list after this
    season. Two years ago, the Raiders were offering a second round
    pick for him, now they could get him for nothing. I'm sure Jay
    would love to have Doug as a teamate again. :")
    
                                 Steve J.

    
    Close. Actually the RAIDERS game Williams a tryout when he was out of
    football, post-USFL. They didn't pick him up and the Skins did.
    Williams is history unless someone wants a back-up.

    No Hoot,
       I have it exactly right. Before the 1987 season it looked like
    Williams was going to go to L.A. Joe Gibbs even called him and said,
    "It looks like you will be going to L.A." Gibbs called him back
    later that day and said, "We can't do it. They only offered a second
    round pick, we wanted a first." (these ate as near to the quotes
    as I could get from memory. 
       Every time I watch the tape of SB XXII they mention the above
    events.
    
                                Steve J.

      Maybe next year..HHHHHHAAAAA   HHHHHAAAAA!!!!!!
    
    		Tj

    
    BUT I DOUBT IT!!!!!
    
    
    Russ

      Wheres all the faider faithfuls????  Sure is quite in here.  Let me
    guess,  they must all be on vacation huh??
    
      Tj

    
    Tj,
       In their defense, all the other notes files seem awfully
    quite. Maybe alot of them do have today off. Let's give 'em
    until tomorrow. Besides, they need the extra time to come
    up with respectable excuses :^>
    
    Bull
    

    
    The Raiders need to learn to win the easy games on the road if they
    are to do anything.  
    
    
    Bruce

    The signs were there this season. The AFC West as a whole showed 
    improvement except for Seattle maybe.  The Chiefs, Broncos and
    SD showed  turnaround. The Raiders did also but firing a coach in
    mid-season does little for the current run. Their record next season
    could improve but they must keep pace with the rest of the
    division to do that. At one time they could take that for granted.
    They cant take anything for granted any longer.
    
    BoB 

    I'm shocked. No Donk fans drilling the Raiders into the ground.
    To be honest, the Raiders shouldnt have even had the chance at the
    playoffs. I, for one, was looking forward to a 7-9 or even a 6-10
    record this year. Thats because of Shanahan. Now with a TRUE Raider
    at the helm, nexted year looks a lot brighter. Oh well, go 9ers.
    			Raider_Rich 
    

    Raider_Rich,
    
    	This is the K & G sports note remember?  Why beat on a
    	dead horse, er, team?  ;^)
    
    Claybone

    Good one ClayboneR :-)
    		Raider_Rich
    

    I think Doug Williams is far from finished as a QB. He can still
    throw a strawberry through a locomotive, and if he has decent
    protection, look out. He wouldn't be unprotected except that the
    Skins pay him $1 million a year, and you don't give that to backups.
    
    as for Jay, he had his chance a has blow it. What is really sad
    is that if he had had a better attitude, he'd be the starter in
    Washington right now.
    
    Doc

    You're nuts !!!  Doug "One Game" Williams IS washed up.  He was
    washed up when they beat (Crushed) the Donks in the stupidbowl,
    he just happend to pull a career game out of his A$$ that day.
    If that game were played the day before or the day after it
    would have bee a different story.  Dougie Baby...... You're
    OUTTA HERE !!
    
    But Game

Excellent special last night on ESPN about Super Bowl II.

Boy, did that take me back....Lamonica, Banaczak, Starr....

The good ol' days of football.  

Best Play:  Max McGee breaking past THREE defensive backs put on him
	    to box him in, on a third and short to catch a 30+ yard
	    pass!!!!!


Chainsaw

    Reports out of Newark, NJ claim that a Continental Airlines Jet bound
    for the West Coast had to be delayed for 2 hours while it was cleaned
    up after the Raiders had used it.

    I can beleive that, Mac....  the Raiders are obviously a
    Bunch of slobs.
    
    Big Game

    It couldn't have been the LA Raiders. I suppose they wern't holding the
    stewardess's either ?
    
     It was a bunch of roller derby players dressed in silver and black 
     outfits. 

    re .67
    
    Boo hoo hoo ... Small Game Hunter, you're jealous that Doug came
    through, unlike Mr Ed.
    
    Not only that, but the civilized world is still waiting for Mr Ed
    to pull a career game out of his a$$, or between his teeth, or wherever
    .....
    
    Finally, it's obvious that you are afraid that Dougie will beocme
    the Raiders QB, and kick the Donks a$$ TWICE a year, instead of
    in Super Bowls.
    
    And that is a fact.
    
    Dr Midnight 

    
    I have to agree with Steven. If he does start again it will be because
    whoever he was backing up got injured.

    Dear Dr. Mid_Life_Crisis,
    
    
    J  A  M        I  T     !!!!!!!!!!!
    
     Doug is a washed up has-been......  take that to the 
    bank.
    
    Big Game
    
    

    Hey Small Game Hunter (I've seen the pics of those chipmunks, rabbits,
    and housecats that you've mounted in your den), I really burned
    you with De Troof didn't I ?
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA !!!!!!!
    
    DrM

    Not at all Dr. Midnight,
    
     I have to agree,  Doug did pick a good time to
    pull the career game out of his butt.  But, he is 
    washed up, HOOT even says so.  You know,  I've 
    been meaning to tell ya that I really enjoy your
    notes.  So intelligent.  And I agree with every
    thing you say.
    
    Big Game
    
    
     Now Don't That Make For Exciting Discussion
    
     I'm gonna throw up.

      HOOT and you agree on something Jack??  I think I'm going to lose
    it.
      Dougie is washed up,  and I do hope the faiders pick him up, 
    because that will be 2 wins/year for the Broncs.  Look at what Jay baby
    has done for them.
    
      Raiders = New retirement home for has beens!!!
    
    
    		Tj....Who know Raiders suck.

     There you go again, Tim....... (remember when Ronnie said that)
    I beleive you have forgotten that this is a Kinder&Gentler(tm)
    Conference.  One more outburst like that and we'll have you 
    castrated.  This is not the place to suggest the someone elses
    favorite team may not be up to you standards, let alone that
    it might sip in public.  Remember, Tim...... It pays to be
    Kinder&Gentler(tm)    ;^)
    
    
    Big Game
    
    Gawd.... even I'm getting sick of this !!
    
    Yea !!, I'm doing it again.... My office is a mess.

    I disagree, I think Williams will be starting, unless he is still
    playing for the Redskins. If someone signs him through plan B, it would
    only be to start. I think Doug makes about $1,000,000 a year. 
    
                                 Steve J.

    
    Not that I think Doug is great or anything like that but I could see
    him stepping in for the following teams and improving their QB
    situation: Pats, Cards, Colts, Chiefs, Seahawks, Bears, DOnks....
    
    mike

     Mike,
    
      Was That Kinder&Gentler(tm) SLAM(tm) on Elway or do you honestly
    beleive that Williams could improve Denvers QB situation.  If it 
    is the last of the two, I know about this real sweet land deal
    on the side of Mt St. Helens you might want to get in on.  ;^)
    IMHO,  Doug could only play for 2 of the teams on you list but
    in the interest of being a Kinder&Gentler noter I won't name
    names...
    
    
    Big Game

    Latest news in the "where will the Raiders be next year" front:  LA has
    reportedly offered to tear down LA Colesium and build the Raiders a new
    facility.  The Colesium is a registered state and national landmark and
    has hosted two Olympic games.  The city is reportedly putting together
    the biggest incentive program ever offered to a sports franchise in
    order to keep the Raiders from moving.

     It would be just like Uncle Al Davis to cause
    something like this to happen.
    
    KG_Big Game

    
    They will definately be in LA next year. Their contract runs through
    next season.
    
    
    Tim,
    For somone claiming to know so much abouut the RAIDERS, like you did,
    your real ignorance of them came gleaming through. Claiming they are a
    retirement home for has-beens is a bit ridiculous considerint the fact
    that they are one of the youngest teams in the league.
    
                                                    HOOT
    

      Ok HOOT,  your telling me they don't suck??  If they didn't,  then
    they would be in the playoffs, right??  If not,  then I guess I'm
    wrong, so shoot me.
    Sorry about that Jack,  But since its been awile since I've been
    arrested,  then I thought I would go for it.
    
      Also HOOT smile, it Friday.
    
    
       Tj....

    Tim, Tim, Tim........
    
     You know that there is nothing worse than a reformed JN'er
    Turn in your keyboard, you're going to jail..
    
    KGBGH

    I feel all of the intrique and suspense of "Will the Raiders move?"
    "Where will they move to?" has been played to the hilt. When you cut
    through it all it boils down to one question. Who cares? They are 
    still a mediocre team with some potential. Shit or get off the pot.
    [insert smiley here]
    
    BoB
    

    Who Gives a Flying %^&%^&*%^&
    
    This team will be bad for at least another 3 to 4 years.
     
    The just don't have the Brains in the front office or
    at head coach to pull themselves out of the tail spin
    any quicker.
    
    Big Game
    
    p.s.  Shell out of a job by end of next season,  Hoot Gibson
    	 Hired as head giver, I mean head coach.  Brings the Parrot
    	 in as Offensive Coordinator.   many many ;^)  HOOT!!

    Well I thought we might bring the Shanahan debate over here.
    Remember when Al hired him?  All the Raid fans were snickering
    about the deal especially the way Al handled it and how 
    furious Reeves was. As it turns out, Shanahan turned out
    to be a Trojan horse.  The latest  but not last laugh is
    Denver's. Perhaps part of Al's agreement would be to allow
    Mike a free hand in coaching staff selection and that's reasonable.
    That's how Willie got axed but when it comes to player roster
    decisions, Davis holds the trump cards. To try and convince
    me otherwise would be very difficult indeed. 
    
    BoB

 >   Remember when Al hired him?  All the Raid fans were snickering
 >   about the deal especially the way Al handled it and how 
 >   furious Reeves was.

Well Bob I was one that was not Snickering..... I took a stance of lets see
what he does with the team that 1st year ie: Nothing. then all the comments
started coming in from the players and most everyone on the team did not like
him. ie: Not RAIDER material... I know that's hard for you to understand, you
have to be a RAIDER fan for about 12years or so to understand it.
Shanny is a good coach, don't get me wrong but not for the RAIDERS, he does'nt
know RAIDER football and never did... That was some of the problems that
Uncle Al had with him.. yeah maybe he ok for the Donk's but not the Siver&Black.
Watch, Shanny will get another head coach job, maybe even the donk's after
they lose the S.B. and Pat B. starts chopping head starting with Collie Boy, 
after all 3 times and no ring does spell trouble for a coach. Look at all
the changes just this season with coaches who only had a few years with a team.
Art will bring the RAIDERs back to their winning ways!!!!

Monty

    
    BoB,
    I neither saw RAIDER fans snickering. I did see/hear most donk fans
    whining about the "dirty way Davis hired him", which was really
    laughable. 
    
    Steven,
    Your comments about Shanahan firing the whole coaching staff couldn't
    be further from the truth. I think you were being facetious, but I'm
    not sure. Leggett quit because of Shanahan. Brown is a highly regarded
    coach, he was being considered for the head coaching job along with
    Shanahan but Davis thought he needed more experience before becoming a
    head coach. I can't remember their names right now but the old O-line
    coach retired and the only coach fired was the RB coach. Shanahan
    brought in new people for those two spots. Brown was there last year.
    Shanahan fired him abruptly in the off season, sealing his own fate
    unless his people got the team playing top notch physical ball (in the
    RAIDER tradition). In reality what he accomplished was allot of
    animosity on the team with his juvenile rules and pussy-foot style of
    ball which resulted in their poor start and his own inevitable firing.
    
    
    Rumor Control:
    
    Rumor has it that Andre Ware will come out this year and will be taken
    by the RAIDERS either in the supplemental draft or trade up in the
    regular draft to get him. Earlier Ware denied any and all reports of
    him coming out this year but recently he has said he would have to look
    at the situation more closely.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
    Hoot, I think the Raiders would be better served to go off and get
    a running back. They have a QB in Beurlien, if they can keep him
    healthy. he's got a good arm seems to have sense and guts. Jay is
    a decent backup if he just gets his head together.....
    
    
    mike

    
    Can't say that I disagree with you Mike. It is just a rumor that I
    heard. I think their top priorities would be a dominate LB (like
    everyone else), safety (McElroy is old and has been injury prone the
    last two years, Eddie Anderson is adequate at one spot but they need
    someone to take over for McElroy. Harden, Carter and Lee aren't cutting
    it), and then RB (I think Bo will quit after next season and Allen is
    getting old. Vance Mueller is a good ballplayer but not a game breaking
    threat). I'm sure there will be surprises. There usually are.
    
    You win the three year old giant carnival cigar, Steven, for filling in
    the blanks. Two that you missed were Art Shell and Terry Robiske, TE
    coach/assistant to the head coach.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

Here's a good one!!!!

Seem's that Majkowski from Green Bay want's to be a RAIDER!!!!

Of course that's every boy's dream growing up!!!!

They would be nut's in G.B. to let him go, He's probley doing it to
raise his $$$$$$$$.....

Of course he would look good in Silver&Black!!  ;^)


Monty    

    
    Steven,
    I just put in what he said. I also noted that the report said Green Bay
    said they would match any offer. What's your problem?
    
    Shanahan cut Millen.
    
    Hilger was drafted out of Oklahoma St., given a chance, didn't pan out,
    and was cut. I don't understand what you are getting at there.
    
    Lachey. One out of three ain't bad. At least your doing better than the
    donks.
    
    "Half the league wants to  be a RAIDER". I'm only going by what the
    players say. They want to play for Davis because he treats his people
    well.
    
    RAIDERS in desparate need of a QB? Hardly. Beuerlein is entering his
    third year. I have no doubt that he will prove you wrong. I think you
    have him mixed up with Elway.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

      Every boys dream to be a raider??   Thats funny...Can't stop laughing
    
      Hey Monty,  shouldn't you say,  It's every boys worst nightmare if he
    was a raider?? ;^^^)
    
    
    		Tim

    
    Pete Rodriguez (sp?) was fired as special teams coach. He took the same
    job with the Cards. Steve Ortmayer takes his place. 
    
    This was not unexpected. In what was very uncharacteristic of the
    RAIDERS over the years, they gave up several long kick returns this
    past season. The writing was on the wall.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Hoot, one thing I do like about the Raiders organization is that
    Al Davis always seems to have a place for those guys who try for
    other jobs but not have the other job work out.  I'll bet he's glad
    to have Ortmayer back.  I'll bet Ortmayer's glad to be back.
    
    John

    
    I agree, John. I think Ortmayer was with them in a front office
    capacity this past season, but I'm not sure. Rattle my memory.
    Where did he go/what was his job when he left a couple of years
    ago?
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Ortmayer was Special Teams Coach through the 1986 season when he
    went to SD and he was with SD for 3 seasons before getting booted
    after this season.
    
    John

    
    Raiders should announce their return to OAkland in the next week
    or two.

    re .107
    
    
    YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    
    Thanks John.

>          <<< Note 44.107 by JULIET::MAY_BR "Wimp football rules!" >>>

    
 >   Raiders should announce their return to OAkland in the next week
 >   or two.


Are you pullin our legs Bruce or is this something being said in the Bay area??


Monty

    Dealing with the Raiders' front office is always very confusing
    because they give their employees very ambiguous titles.  When I
    look at their front office list, I'm never really sure who is
    responsible for what.  And I gots to know when they play here because
    I need to know who to send the official final score sheet to.
    
    John
    

    
    Davis should commit soon.  He wanted to stay in LA, if the Coliseum
    Commission would build him a new stadium, since the current one
    can not realistically be retrofitted to today's standards (luxuryboxes,
    closer to the action, etc).  LA agreed to tear down the Coliseum,
    and build a new one, to Al's specs.  IT seemed that the Sac/Oakland
    bargaining had played into Al's hands and he got what he wanted,
    a new stadium.  However, a bunch of conservationalists got upset
    and made a move to have the Coliseum named a state historical site,
    making it impossible to get torn down.  End of new plan, end of
    Al wanting to stay in LA.
    
    Last week Oakland/Alameida officials agreed to give Al the deal
    he has asked for.  He has two weeks to accept.  He was in town last
    week working out the details.
    
    Now we've all seen Al get close like this before and nothing has
    happened, so who knows if this is for real.
    
    One more item-  LA Times took a poll of Southlanders and asked them
    what they thought of the Raiders leaving.  82% said they didn't
    care.  It shouuld be pretty clear to everyone that the Raiders never
    made it in LA (I don't know that any football team ever really has)
     and that moving was a mistake from the start.
    
    
    Bruce

    Amen Bruce ! The Raiders effectively lost their homefield advantage
    when they left Oakland, not to mention their image.
    
    I also tend to feel that LA fans have a definite front-runner streak
    in them.
    
    Prediction : If the Raoders return to Oakland, they'll unseat Denver
    for the AFC West title. Elway's 1st game in O-A Collesium will
    necessitate the use of Depend undergarments on his part ....

    >I also tend to feel that LA fans have a definite front-runner streak
    >in them.
       Spoken like a true Laker fan! 
                                        Denny

    Sorry Denny - I speak of LA *football* fans ... they sort of tolerated
    the Rams like an obligation, and the Raiders were seen as a diversion
    from the beach.
    
    We Laker fans are a loyal breed ...
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. What happened to the Septics last night ?

	This is what you said Doc:
    
    I also tend to feel that LA fans have a definite front-runner streak
    in them.


	Freudian slip?

				/Don

       Just football eh? How 'bout those 'loyal' Angels fans who were
    filing out of the 'Big A' during the 7th inning of a NO-HITTER
    a couple years ago!
       Just change things around to suit yerself Dock, we understand.
                                           Denny

    > just change things around to sui yerself ...
    
    You should know, Penny ...  :-)
    
    drM

    L.A. fans didn't like the paRaiders 'cuz they're bums. 

    
    Oakland Coliseum/City Council meet something like Mar 12th to vote
    on getting the Raiders.  Davis should announce beforehand.
    
    re -1
    
    They are bums only because they didn't win in LA.  LA only supports
    teams that win.
    
    
    Bruce

    Sacremento is going to let their bid for the Raiders expire.

    
    Max Montoya was signed by the Raiders yesterday as plan B free agent..
    
    mike

    Ortmayer was the Chargers Director of Football Operations.  That's
    essentially a GM.  He SUCKED at the job too.
    
    He alone is responsible for the Clay & McCallum for Lachey trade that
    burned the Chargers.  He alone is responsible for Gary Anderson sitting
    out the season.  Hell, I blame him somewhat for the Chip Banks fiasco.
    
    He sucked and I'm glad to be rid of him.  (And honestly, I'm not sure
    he was entirely loyal to the organization anyway.  Lachey for Clay &
    McCallum.....AWFUL TRADE!)
    
    Live from Charger Central.....
    
    Glenn

    
    Didn't win in LA? Say what? They won two Super Bowls in LA.
    
    Ortmayer is going back to what he does best, coaching. The Chargers
    hired him for a top front office job. He didn't work out there. He is a
    good coach. He will handle special teams.
    
    Hopefully Montoya has a couple of Pro Bowl type years left in him. I
    imagine he will play left guard with. From all reports I have read, and
    not all from the RAIDERS press, last year's rookie right guard, Steve 
    Wisniewski, is expected to become All-Pro material quickly. He graded
    out very high.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    re .124:
    
    >	Didn't win in LA? Say what? They (Raiders) won two Super Bowls in LA.
    
    Weren't they still in Oakland when they beat Philadelphia in 1980?
    
    
    py

    Yes, they were still the Oakland Raiders when they won Super Bowl
    XV in New Orleans over the Eagles in January 1981.   That was the
    weekend that the Iranian hostages came home, for trivia's sake.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    You are right. The deal had been struck but they were still in Oakland.
    

�    You are right. The deal had been struck but they were still in Oakland.


I thought they were being held hostage in Iran???????

Mike JN    

    
    That's what Raygun wanted everyone to believe.

    
    "Oakland" once more...
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

Sean --

Where'd the p-name come from?  It is SOOOOO familiar.  Sounds to me
like Jack Nicholson, but I cain't quite place it....

The OAKLAND Raiders...ah the good ol' days...  Now if we could just
get the Cardinals back to St Louis, the Colts back to Baltimore,
and the Dodgers back to Brooklyn, we might be makin' some progress 8^)

'Saw

    
�   The p-name's from Pee Wee Herman in Pee Wee's Big Adventure
    
    "I love that story..." :^)
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

Well, I was close....Pee Wee Herman.  Jack Nicholson...same difference ;^)

Now that the RAIDERS are moving, I have to go out and buy new T-shirts
again....  That's OK....

    The Oakland Raiders?  I was just starting to get use to calling them
    the LA Raiders. This is good news.  With the addition of more 
    wild card teams in the new formatt, they might even make the playoffs.
    
    BoB
    

    
    RE: Why not Irwindale?
    
    First of all they really wanted to go back to Oakland and Oakland made
    them an offer they couldn't refuse, $602 million for 15 years.
    
    Second, the site where Irwindale proposed to have the stadium built is
    on the breeding grounds of some rare bird. It is doubtful that they
    could build there. 
    
    Third, Irwindale was short on $$$.
     
    Fourth, Irwindale pulled their offer off the table.
    
    
    As far as, "might even make the playoffs" goes. Won't that be a breath
    of fresh air? Denver fans should very much welcome this. It will keep 
    Denver from having every Super Bowl record set against them, what few 
    that haven't already been. They have a coach now, to go along with the
    talent also.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

re: .131
>get the Cardinals back to St Louis,
    
         The Cardinals football franchise originated in Chicago, 
    then moved to St. Louis before moving to Phoenix.
    
                        			  Glen J.
    

Okay, Glenn....

Let's get them Cardinals back to Chicago.  And while we're at it
let's put the A's back in Kansas City/Philly (you pick)....

Chainsaw

    A's would have to move back to Philly. If they went to KC, they
    just be a Yankee feeder team again.
    
    Yup, Bo and Saberhagen in pinstripes ..... :-)
    
    But what we really ought to do is rebulid the Polo Grounds and Ebbetts
    Field .....

�    But what we really ought to do is rebulid the Polo Grounds and Ebbetts
�    Field .....


I hear ya Dock, loud and clear!!!! 8^)

Chainsaw....

    re: .139
    
         One 'n' please Frank.  You might as well call me Gl.....d(
    I can't even say it). :-)
    
         No offense intended on my statement.  Seemed that you were saying
    that it would be nice if things(in this case, teams and stadiums) 
    could retain their original locale and character, instead of moving
    and building mausoleums just for money's sake.  I agree with you on 
    that.  
    
>    But what we really ought to do is rebulid the Polo Grounds and Ebbetts
>    Field .....
    
         Just recalling the fond memories my father used to have of 
    both of those places makes me wish that I could have seen them before 
    they were demolished.  Once the Giants and Dodgers left NY and
    Brooklyn, he lost his enthusiasm for baseball.
    
                                                 Glen J.

    
�         One 'n' please Frank.  You might as well call me Gl.....d(
�    I can't even say it). :-)

Sorry 'bout that.  Sometimes my fingers go into RCASO mode and I 
dont' evnenen NO it. ;^)
    
�         No offense intended on my statement.  Seemed that you were saying
�    that it would be nice if things(in this case, teams and stadiums) 
�    could retain their original locale and character, instead of moving
�    and building mausoleums just for money's sake.  I agree with you on 
�    that.  

None taken.

I tend to take a nostalgic look back at baseball back then.  Probably
because I came along a little to late to appreciate the Dodgers in
Brooklyn etc.  I've heard so much about it from older releatives that
it seems kinda neat, you know.

To me, the Indy Colts are still the Baltimore Colts, because I was so
used to saying that for so many years....  Guess I'm just a 
purist....


Latered,
'Saw

Bring this note back to talking about the RAIDERS!!!!!
    

    	The Steelers beat the Raiders fair and square in the '72 playoff
    game.
    
    				/Don

       The REF screwed the Pats in the '76 playoff game.
                                        Denny

>    	The Steelers beat the Raiders fair and square in the '72 playoff
>    game.
    
  HAHAHAHAHAHAHA(tm)   yeah right!!!!



re: Denny

The RAIDERS were screwed by Sam Seal in the Pats playoff game....
I will never forgive that clown!!!!!


Monty

    Jim Lytle fumbled in the 77 playoff game, unfairly giving the Donks
    the title!
    
    JD

Marino hands off to Bo, and *another* 90+ yard touchdown for Bo!


Seriously, the Raiders would become instant meat and potatoes!



John

>                   -< Marino want to be an Oakland Raider! >-

So does 99% of the NFL!!!!! You never hear of a player saying that he wants
to be a Donk do you!!!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA(tm)


Monty

    
    Marino wanted to be traded last year, also. Don't bet on him going
    anywhere.

     I'd like to see Marino playing for the RAIDERS, I'd also like
    to see the RAIDERS get Andre baby seeing as how he's foregoing.
    
                                                           Carlos

      I hear the faiders got another looser of a QB.  Booby Habear (sp?)
    from the Aints.  So now they will have Gay and Booby or is that Jay and
    Bobby.
    
      Marino in Black & Silver???  All rumors....
    
    		Tim

    I don't think Hebert is officially a Raider yet, according to the
    local paper Hebert says he has talked with Al Davis and plans on
    joining the Raiders practice on May 9th, but Al says the Raiders
    are still negotiating and are interested in Hebert and Marino.
    Ron Brown, however, is official and he will be a fine addition.
    He is a very talented athlete that can play WR,DE,and on special
    teams. I think he was the fastest man in the NFL a couple of years
    ago, and I'm sure he's still right up there.
    
                                                                   
     Carlos

    
    Carlos,
    Isn't Brown a bit on the small side to play DE? Ha ha! I know, you
    meant DB. The RAIDERS plan to make him a DB and kick returner since
    I think Bobby Joe Edmunds signed with someone else, forget who, since
    he was unprotected. The RAIDERS also lost back-up DE, Mark Mraz, to
    Denver. Good pick-up for Denver. He will probably start.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    The Saints owner has denied reports that Hebert is going to the
    Raiders.

    My mistake, he is a DB, but with his speed maybe they could use
    him as a DE and have him zip around the offensive line, especially
    against teams that have QBs that like to scramble like old horse
    face himself. Then again, with great ideas like that it's no wonder
    I work for DEC instead of somewhere in the NFL.
                                                      Carlos

    

    Al Davis was meeting with Tom Bradley Sun. and has worked out a deal
    where he will talk only with Spectacor (the managers of the LA
    Coliseum) and not the LA Coliseum Commission (who he doesn't get
    along with).  Speculation is that he is using the Oakland deal that
    he made to up the ante in LA, and possiblly stay there.
    
         
    Maybe Hoot an Monty can explain this one.
    Bruce   

       HE already screwed Irwindale out of $10 million. Why should he stop
    now?
                                           Denny

    Hey, if Irwindale is STUPID enough to give him a non-refundable
    check for $10 million, they DESERVE to be screwed.
    
    NAZZ

    
    He didn't "screw" anyone. Irwindale pulled out.
    
    Since the Colisium Commission was so incompetent, Spectacor took over.
    It has absolutely nothing to do with Davis not getting along with the
    commission, who screwed him royally in breaching their contract by not
    completing the agreed upon renovations. A couple of city council-
    critters in Oakland are trying to get enough signatures to put the issue
    of bringing the RAIDERS back on the ballot. If they are successful at
    getting the required 20,000 signatures, it will be on the Nov. ballot.
    Spectacor approached Davis to try and talk him out of going back to
    Oakland and to make an offer for them to stay. Why wouldn't he listen?
    Spectacor also said that if they don't get the RAIDERS to stay in LA,
    they will try to get another NFL team to move there (preferrably) or go
    for an expansion team.
    
                                                   HOOT
      

 
    re .171
    
>    He didn't "screw" anyone. Irwindale pulled out.
           
    Substantial penality for early withdrawl, eh Hoot ?
    
    I hope Irwindale didn't pull out too soon ... heh heh heh ....
    

    re: going after another team:
    
    How about the 
    
    LOS ANGELES RAMS! What a concept! They wouldn't even have to change
    their name.....
    
    8*)
    
    ...mike
    

    
    But the Rams moved out of LA. Of course noone whines about them
    supposedly "screwing" someone over it. Or the Cards, Jets, Giants,
    Colts, Chargers, Chiefs ect.,for that matter.
    
    Come on Steven. Davis didn't seek out the LA people, they came to him
    after they found out about the move by some in Oakland to stop the city
    from putting up the big bucks to get them back. I doubt the people will
    vote it down. Unless Oakland's mayor has Dan Reeves/Pat Bowlen Liars
    Syndrome, the city will break even from the money generated by the
    RAIDERS being there. He said it isn't intended to be a money making
    proposition but a morale boosting rallying point for a down community
    since the people there still love the RAIDERS, witness last year's pre-
    season game there. Then he said they would not be losing money. I did
    not catch the fiscal details. If by chance Oakland does turn them down,
    staying in LA would be the contingency plan. Don't expect it to happen.
    
    Doc,
    Brutal, simply brutal!
    
                                                   HOOT
    

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>    Since the Colisium Commission was so incompetent, Spectacor took over.
>    It has absolutely nothing to do with Davis not getting along with the
>    commission, 
    
    EVERYTHING I've read here  has said that the problem is that Al
    and the C.C. just don't get along.  I would say that the Bay Area
    media is probably a lot more objective about this than Al or any
    of his cronies.  I don't understand the incompetent part.
    
    
 >   who screwed him royally in breaching their contract by not
 >   completing the agreed upon renovations. 
                                    
    screwed royally may be an overstatement.  So the seats that are
    going to be empty anyway didn't get fixed, big deal.
    
 >                                       A couple of city council-
 >   critters in Oakland are trying to get enough signatures to put the issue
 >   of bringing the RAIDERS back on the ballot. If they are successful at
 >   getting the required 20,000 signatures, it will be on the Nov. ballot.
    
    It's not a couple city council people are trying to get the signatures
    (there wasn't even 2 city council votes against the idea), it regular
    citizens who are concerned where the money could go.
    
    
>            Spectacor approached Davis to try and talk him out of going back to
>    Oakland and to make an offer for them to stay. Why wouldn't he listen?
 
    How about because he said he was definitely going back to Oakland.
    Oh, that's right, were only talking about going back on his word.
    I guess he could listen.
       
 >   Spectacor also said that if they don't get the RAIDERS to stay in LA,
 >   they will try to get another NFL team to move there (preferrably) or go
 >   for an expansion team.
    
    Spectacor has said they doubt they'd get an expansion team.
    Coincidentally, Spectacor is the company that SF was using to build
    their downtown stadium.
    
    
    Bruce
      
  
      

================================================================================
Note 44.175                       The "RAIDERS"                       175 of 176
GENRAL::GIBSON                                       22 lines  28-MAR-1990 15:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
>    But the Rams moved out of LA. Of course noone whines about them
>    supposedly "screwing" someone over it. Or the Cards, Jets, Giants,
>    Colts, Chargers, Chiefs ect.,for that matter.
 
    Talk to some Baltimore fans.  They do in fact whine about it.  And
    although the Giants, Rams, Jets (you forgot the Pats) did move out
    of the city they are in, they are still within the same metropolitan
    area, and a reasonable commute to the games (its actually closer
    for many of the fans).  Comparing the Raiders move to the Dallas
    Texans moving to KC is ludicrous.
                 
>    Come on Steven. Davis didn't seek out the LA people, they came to him
>    after they found out about the move by some in Oakland to stop the city
>    from putting up the big bucks to get them back. 
                                                    
    But Davis didn't say "no, I already promised Oakland." either.
    
>                                                    I doubt the people will
>    vote it down. 
                   
    Don't be so sure.  Most of the Raider fans are from the East Bay,
    and not Oakland.  Only the people of Oakland get to vote and the
    way the petitioners have fanned the flames with propaganda, the
    move is in definite doubt.  Don Perata, who is responsible for getting
    the Raiders to move back, has said that if the thing gets put on
    the ballot, he's sure the Raiders won't be here.
    
 >                  Unless Oakland's mayor has Dan Reeves/Pat Bowlen Liars
 >   Syndrome, the city will break even from the money generated by the
 >   RAIDERS being there. 
                              
    There is one monstrous if in all those statements: IF every game
    is a sell out for the next 15 years.  The city has promised to buy
    up any unsold seats.  And none of that is figured into any of anyone's
    calculations (except Al's).  If you consider that there has been
    some erosion of the fan base in the last 10 years (especially when
    you consider that the 9ers are the glamor boys of the Bay Area)
    and that, contrary to popular belief, the Raiders didn't always
    sell out when they were here, there is a large risk that the city
    will be buying up some seats overe the next few years.
                                                          
>                              He said it isn't intended to be a money making
>    proposition but a morale boosting rallying point for a down community
>    since the people there still love the RAIDERS, witness last year's pre-
>    season game there. Then he said they would not be losing money. 

    Essentially what is happening is the city of Oakland is financing
    the Raiders to come back, to the benefit of the entire East Bay/
    Alameda County.  They aren't in any shape to do that.  
                                                                   
>                                                             I did
>    not catch the fiscal details. If by chance Oakland does turn them down,
>    staying in LA would be the contingency plan. Don't expect it to happen.
 
    Don't be surprised if it falls apart.  Al seems to be showing to
    me that the least little opposition to this and he'll be running
    back to LA.  I think it would teach him a lesson if the people said
    'no', but I bet he'll be gone before they even get a chance to vote.  

    Bruce
    

          <<< Note 44.176 by JULIET::MAY_BR "Wimp football rules!" >>>

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>    Since the Colisium Commission was so incompetent, Spectacor took over.
>    It has absolutely nothing to do with Davis not getting along with the
>    commission, 
    
*    EVERYTHING I've read here  has said that the problem is that Al
*    and the C.C. just don't get along.  I would say that the Bay Area
*    media is probably a lot more objective about this than Al or any
*    of his cronies.  I don't understand the incompetent part.
 
They said that they would do this and that but yet never even drove one nail
in anything to bring up the standards of the Colisium. If it wern't for the
big Olympic games that place would have fallen in on itself a few years ago.
The place is a shambles!!!
   
    
 >   who screwed him royally in breaching their contract by not
 >   completing the agreed upon renovations. 
                                    
*    screwed royally may be an overstatement.  So the seats that are
*    going to be empty anyway didn't get fixed, big deal.
    
The big deal was Delux boxes around the top of the Colisium and whole new
seating in some area's... The RAIDERS/Donk's game last year had a record
crowd for that game.. Something like 90,000+ They usually get about 50,000
for each game... Hell the dam places sit's about 103,000....

 >                                       A couple of city council-
 >   critters in Oakland are trying to get enough signatures to put the issue
 >   of bringing the RAIDERS back on the ballot. If they are successful at
 >   getting the required 20,000 signatures, it will be on the Nov. ballot.
    
*    It's not a couple city council people are trying to get the signatures
*    (there wasn't even 2 city council votes against the idea), it regular
*    citizens who are concerned where the money could go.
 
This will be the big issue of the RAIDERS coming back to Oakland... Most folks
want the money to go somewhere else... But where do you start to bring back
some replenishment to a place that's been slowly going down hill....
   
    
>            Spectacor approached Davis to try and talk him out of going back to
>    Oakland and to make an offer for them to stay. Why wouldn't he listen?
 
*    How about because he said he was definitely going back to Oakland.
*    Oh, that's right, were only talking about going back on his word.
*    I guess he could listen.
 
He's put up the the lies of the C.C. for a long time and I beleave that he
is taking a dim veiw of these Spector people. Wern't they the bad guy's in
the James Bond movies????
      
 >   Spectacor also said that if they don't get the RAIDERS to stay in LA,
 >   they will try to get another NFL team to move there (preferrably) or go
 >   for an expansion team.
    
*    Spectacor has said they doubt they'd get an expansion team.
*    Coincidentally, Spectacor is the company that SF was using to build
*    their downtown stadium.
 
Hell Most of the Donk fans would like to see that team go...;^) Any ties
with this Spector people and the 49er's?????? Makes you wonder....
   
    
    Monty
      
  
      

    
    Davis "going back on his word"
    
    Hardly. If Oakland says "No", how do you turn that into Davis going
    back on his word? As far as Davis is concerned, it was a done deal.
    Oakland is the party that is saying, "well maybe not, now".
    
    RE: incompetence
    
    That is why Spectacor is in and The C.C. is out. C.C was doing a lousy
    job and were canned. Of course Davis didn't get along with them. Anyone
    would be a bit PO'd at a group that breached a multi-million dollar
    contract on them. They were under contract to put in skyboxes (big $$
    income), install seats closer to the field (as it is now the fans are
    about as far from the field as in any stadium in the country), ect.
    
    Sure I can see how some of you don't like the guy but trying to blame
    him for Oakland possibly pulling out at the last minute and ragging on
    him because he is looking at other options if Oakland pulls out, is
    simply ludicrous.
    
                                                   HOOT 

    By the way, Spectacor is a Philadelphia company owned by the
    Snider family, the same Sniders who own the Philadelphia Flyers
    hockey team and the Philadelphia Spectrum facility.
    
    Spectacor's business is sports arena planning, construction,
    operations, management and maintenance.  They have done some
    serious worldwide growing in the last few years.  They get called
    in on just about all new sports construction projects these days.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    But Steven isn't Uncle Al's present way the American Way?
    
    did I get lost somewhere? 
    
    mike

      It amazes me, as to how someone can make such a purely brilliant
    comment as : " the Raiders have turned to crap and you *can't* argue
    with that. " with the fore knowledge that this team has beaten his
    beloved Broncos three of the last four times they've played, and
    something like forty to nineteen as a series.
    
                                                      Carlos
    

�    Raiders since the move, and then tell me why they haven't turned to
�    crap, tell me why they are still such a great team. 
    
Crap, in this instance, is a rather ambiguous term.  Are you talking
about a substance containing a high fecal content?  Or are you generically
speaking of something less than desirable on the dinner table?

At any rate, for matter of one form (the LA Raiders) to turn into
matter of another form ("crap"), the energies involved would leave
a hole in the earth roughly the size of Los Angeles.  This follows,
roughly, the principle of the ancient alchemist trying to turn lead
into gold.

Since Los Angeles is still standing, I'd presume that the Raiders
haven't turned into anything....

Schlep hop opts,
Chainsaw    
    
    
           
       

           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 44.178                       The "RAIDERS"                       178 of 186
COMET::MONTGOMERY "The California RAIDERS"           81 lines  29-MAR-1990 09:08
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> The big deal was Delux boxes around the top of the Colisium and whole new
> seating in some area's... The RAIDERS/Donk's game last year had a record
> crowd for that game.. Something like 90,000+ They usually get about 50,000
> for each game... Hell the dam places sit's about 103,000....
  
    My point was, and still is, that even if they built those seats,
    no one would buy them LA has just not taken to the Raiders (and
    there is no need for you to go in and edit my reply by capitalizing
    the team name),  They had one big crowd at one game, and still averaged
    around 50,000 (or less).  Think what the attendance will be this
    year, when the people know the team is probably gone.  Could that
    be why Al is still leaving hints that he might be in LA?  To get
    people to go to the game under a false pretense that the team won't
    leave afterall?  Nah, Al wouldn't do anything underhanded, would
    he.
  
> This will be the big issue of the RAIDERS coming back to Oakland... Most folks
> want the money to go somewhere else... But where do you start to bring back
> some replenishment to a place that's been slowly going down hill....
   
    I realize that you are a bit removed from the situation, but youy
    shouldn't speak about something you don't know about.  Oakland isn't
    slowly going downhill.  If anything they have turned things around
    considerably.  The A's have helped contribute to that. 
                                                         
                                                         
> He's put up the the lies of the C.C. for a long time and I beleave that he
> is taking a dim veiw of these Spector people. Wern't they the bad guy's in
> the James Bond movies????
  
    Al loves the Spectacor people.  They are the ones trying to cut
    another deal with him.  Aside to Bob Hunt-- I think Spectacor was
    recently bought by a big conglomerate, McGraw-Hill comes to my mind.
                                                                        
    
>*    Spectacor has said they doubt they'd get an expansion team.        
>*    Coincidentally, Spectacor is the company that SF was using to build
>*    their downtown stadium.                                            
 
>Hell Most of the Donk fans would like to see that team go...;^) Any ties
>with this Spector people and the 49er's?????? Makes you wonder....
   
  Great, here comes a Raiders fan with another of their great conspiracy
    theories.  Spectacor was going to build a downtown baseball stadium
    for the Giants.  It had absolutely nothing to do with the 9ers.
    They care very little about what happens.  The only Raiders fans
    left are a few diehards, the rest have become 9ers fans.  With the
    way the 49ers look for the next few years, there is no reason to
    think that that would change.

    
    Bruce    
      
  
      

Note 44.179                       The "RAIDERS"                       179 of 187
GENRAL::GIBSON                                       22 lines  29-MAR-1990 09:29
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>    Davis "going back on his word"
    
>    Hardly. If Oakland says "No", how do you turn that into Davis going
>    back on his word? As far as Davis is concerned, it was a done deal.
>    Oakland is the party that is saying, "well maybe not, now".
 
    Oakland hasn't said no, a few people have passed out petitions.
     Oakland (the mayor and his council, the only people who speak for
    Oakland now) has said yes, and Davis said yes.  About a week later,
    Davis was back in LA, talking to the Mayor of LA and Sp[ectacor
    about another deal.   
 
>        RE: incompetence   
                       
>    That is why Spectacor is in and The C.C. is out. C.C was doing a lousy
>    job and were canned. Of course Davis didn't get along with them. Anyone
>    would be a bit PO'd at a group that breached a multi-million dollar
>    contract on them. They were under contract to put in skyboxes (big $$
>    income), install seats closer to the field (as it is now the fans are
>    about as far from the field as in any stadium in the country), ect.
 
    The CC was NOT canned.  Spectacor is merely a liason between the
    two parties.  
       
>    Sure I can see how some of you don't like the guy but trying to blame
>    him for Oakland possibly pulling out at the last minute and ragging on
>    him because he is looking at other options if Oakland pulls out, is
>    simply ludicrous.
         
    I didn't blame him for Oakland possibly pulling out at the last
    minute.  Where did you get that?  Unless you are going to use lesson's
    from the Monty School of Advanced Editing, you won't find anything.
    My point is that why is he already talking to Spectacor?  Nothing
    will be decided in Oakland until the end of the year, and he doesn't
    even need a stadium for two years after that.  All he is doing by
    engaging in those talks is getting people in Oakland more upset
    about a deal that was marginal at best.  
         
    Bruce    
         
         
         
         

      Steven, you've missed my point. I just think it's strange that
    you call my team "crap" when we both know that my team beats your
    team the majority of the times that they play. Kinda like a sore
    loser or something. I agree with you that they are not as good in L.A.
    as they were in Oakland, but they're far from crap. Since they've
    been in L.A. they've won the Super Bowl once; How many times have
    the Broncos won it since they've been in Denver ?????
    
                                                    Carlos

*    team he puts on the field is at a lever far below what I have grown 
*    accustomed to. One of the biggest reasons for that letdown is
*    lack of fan support,
    
Steve,
    	Exactly, what *lever* are you talking about.  You should see
    	your doctor about that letdown problem....:^)  Do you really
    	need to do that in front of a fan (could be dangerous!).
    
Claybone
    

    
    I don't get your point, Bruce. I say "if Oakland says no", you say
    Oakland hasn't said no. Sounds like the same thing to me. When you say 
    Davis went back to LA and talked to the mayor and Spectacor you failed
    to mention this was after the petition started and that they came to
    Davis. The rumors are that Davis was going to buy out his contract in
    LA for at least 1991, and possibly 1990, with the Oakland money. If he
    doesn't know until Nov. whether they will be turned down or not that
    doesn't leave him much time. In the mean time his current contract is
    running out and these things aren't ironed out very quickly. Oakland is
    the stumbling block, not Davis. What's he supposed to do? Sit back and
    wait to see if Oakland is going to back out of a done deal, leaving him
    one year to iron out a multi-faceted, multi-million dollar contract
    with a deadline approaching quickly? That would be a very stupid
    business move. Davis and the RAIDERS want to come back to Oakland.
    Oakland is hee hawing around, well maybe but then again maybe not. I
    don't live in the area but I certainly disagree with your claim that
    there are only a few diehards left in the area that care about the
    RAIDERS. If that is true, how do you explain last year's pre-season
    game selling out in a matter of a couple of hours? A few back you also
    claimed they didn't always sell out in Oakland. True. But they also had
    a sell out streak of something like 13 years running. (I don't remember
    the exact number). Finally, your last extraction of my note did not
    have your name in it. Why claim you didn't say something that you
    werent being accused of in the first place?
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
    
    This whole issue is a great example of what happens when people take
    sports so seriously that they feel they must defend the local team or 
    owner against all reason.  For me, nothing could be more deliciously
    ironic than for the *people* (not the politicians) of Oakland to tell 
    the Los Angeles Raiders and Al Davis where to stick it.  Don't get me
    wrong, I don't have anything against Al Davis personally.  I was one of
    those "whining" Colts' fans, and I'd be just as happy to see Bob Irsay
    or Bill Bidwell fall flat on their faces as Al Davis (so far, it looks
    like Bidwell is).  It would be nice, just once, to see those
    disenfranchised "fans" who we all know don't really have a say anymore 
    in pro sports, become the screwers, instead of the screwees.
    
    Forget those arguments over the impact that a pro sports team has on
    the local economy, especially in a diverse recreational area like the
    Bay.  A study, reported in Sports Illustrated last week, confirmed what
    I've believed all along: that while sports events *are* an economic 
    boon to businesses in the immediate vicinity of the stadium, if the 
    sports events aren't available, people will generally spend that money 
    elsewhere in their leisure time.  Add the expenses for extra police, 
    etc., and it's an overrated economic proposition.  In the case of 
    Oakland, it's doubtful that the popularity of the Raiders can make up 
    the $60 million investment up front, plus whatever number of $55 
    tickets Al isn't able to sell. 
    
    glenn
    

re: Bruce

I allways put the RAIDERS in big letters... I did not edit your reply to
do that... Maybe you did it and didn't know it... hmmmmm

I was in Oakland about 3.5 years ago and it didn't look like much was being
done about the place... I hope that thing's are starting to take on a rebuilding
for all those folk's.... Even went by the old stadium too.....

Come on Bruce , the way you sound in this note is like you don't want to
see the RAIDERS back in Oakland... Afraid that they could take away from the
49ers??? Masses of people crossing the bridge??? When I went to a 49ers game
about 3.5 years ago there were hundred's of people at the 49ers game with
Oakland RAIDERS jackets on, me included!!!! so I don't think that many people
have converted to the 49ers just some bandwangers, there are still true
RAIDER fans in the Bay area......


Monty

    Monty, the Bay Area is my birthplace. One day, I'd love to go back
    and live there. And I believe that the Raiders true home is Oakland.
    Not LA, Irwindale, West Toyko, Sacramento, or the Sea Of Tranquility.
    
    But there should be limits as to our emphasis on sports. Any deal
    with the Raiders should include renovations to O-A Colliseum. Period.
    NO city fail-safe ticket buying, no something-for-nothing gimmicks.
    Just a nice, solid package that's fair to both sides.
    
    I'm willing to predict that if the people don't beg Al, then he'll
    lower his price tag - considerably.
    
    But I'd hate to see the people of Oakland bankrupt themselves to
    get the Raiders back - nothing is worth that.
    
    If the Quake proved anything, it should have gotten our priorties
    straight about sports and things that *really* matter.
    
    Have they ? I hope so .....
    
    Let Davis twist in the wind ....
    
    Doc

       Does anybody know anything about the following plan b players
    that the RAIDERS aquired: Ron Burton, LB, Phoenix ; Joe Campbell,
    LB, San Diego; George Streeter, DB, Chicago? I've never seen or
    heard of these guys in all my life, are they any good? I have heard
    of two of the other players the RAIDERS got ( Ron Brown, and Max
    Montoya ) they're both pretty good. Also, any news on what's going
    on with Marino and Hebert, it's been to quiet.
                                                      Carlos

    Ron Burton, LB Pheonix. Going into his 4rd year in the NFL from NC State.
    Played two years for Dallas was cut after Cowboys got two linebackers in
    the  Herschel trade with Minny last October. Strong against the run, big
    hitter, real weak on pass coverage. Not a bad MLB, good on special teams.

chuck

    
    RE: Marino and Hebert
    
    Miami is saying Marino will stay, unless they get the farm.
    
    New Orleans is saying they haven't, and don't plan to, talk to anyone
    about trading Hebert.

    read in the paper this morning where Lyle Alzado is allegedly coming
    out of retirement to be a "part-time pass rusher" and assistant coach.  
    
    Hmmm...maybe Davis will next sign George Blanda as a part-time field
    goal kicker, and Ken Stabler as a part-time hand-off-quarterback.
    The Raiders might go for job sharing.

>    read in the paper this morning where Lyle Alzado is allegedly coming
>    out of retirement to be a "part-time pass rusher" and assistant coach.  
    
 You gotta stop readin the Inquirer......
 either that or Uncle Al has brain damage to let him play....


After the things he said about John, he really pisses me off!!!


Monty

    
    Monty,
    I heard it also. That was Alzado talking. There is no way you will see
    a 41 year old pass rusher in the NFL that hasn't played since 1985.
    Couple that with the fact that he was trying to lose weight for his
    acting career, i.e. quit doing steroids, I don't see it happening. I do
    agree with you that he is a jerk. Right after he retired he admitted to
    doing steroids. Now he claims he didn't, bad publicity ya know. He is a
    bad actor and out of the limelight so he pulls this BS to get his name
    back into the media. 
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
    re: .-1
    
    >> doing steroids. Now he claims he didn't, bad publicity ya know. He is a
    >> bad actor
           
    
    He is NOT a bad actor;  why, he and E.B. the Energizer Rabbit have such
    on-screen charisma that I can see an Emmy next year in the commercial
    category for both of them.

    I heard on the news this morning that the deal between the Raiders and
    the City of Oakland may be dead.  I didn't hear anymore, so I don't
    know the details.
    
    Glenn

       From what the Globe said Sunday, It will lose at the polls. More
    people (50,000) signed the petition to put it on the ballot, than
    voted for the mayor in the last election.
                                       Denny

    
    The Mayor of Oakland has given up on the deal.  The Raiders said
    if it ever went to a ballot, they would cancel the deal.  The
    petitioners got 30,000 signatures, enough to put it on the ballot.
    The Raiders are said to be looking for a new home.
    
    Bruce

    Al Davis blew it .... I'm willing to bet that other cities will
    finally wake up, smell the coffee, and stop giving into the blackmail.
    
    Hopeful prediction : Davis will take the Raiders back to Oakland,
    but for much less.
    
    I'm glad to see that the people have their priorties straight. I
    love the *Oakland* Raiders as much as anyone, but hell take care
    of the schools (the system is out of money) first ...

       Mebbe the raiders should play all road games. We could just call 'em
    'Al's Nomads'.
                                               Denny

    
    I don't think it will really bother the players, if they don't go to
    Oakland, too much. They were planning on playing in LA this year
    anyway. They are still under contract to play there. I do agree with
    you that the home field advantage will be nil in a cavernous stadium
    with noone there. I heard that Davis had already given some concessions
    to the original Oakland deal by dismissing Oakland's offer of
    guarenteed ticket sales. I wouldn't be surprised if he gives in on
    several other issues also to complete the deal. 

      Gee, I thought the SB was discustingly funny, but this move deal with
    the raiders is worse.  AS long as Uncle Al controls the team,  then
    this bs will continue.
    
    	Tj

    Let Al eat cake. It's probably starting to taste a lot worse than
    that though. Irwindale is starting to sound better and better all
    the time. Open up Al, here comes a big old spoon full. Hee-hee!
    
    BoB

The Raiders took Major Harris on the 12th round. Harris was the last of
the eligible juniors drafted.

FWIW, Tony Rice of Notre Dame was not drafted.

TTom

    What's the deal on Harris, as far as what kind of player he is
    or can be, I don't know to much about him or any of the other
    draftees for that matter.
    
                                                        Carlos 
    

    Carlos,
    
    Harris' arm was questioned by scouts after tryouts.  Many felt it
    wasnt of pro-caliber.  Also, he and his agent have actively pursued
    playing in the Canadien league, and prior to draft-day, it was rumoured
    they were close to signing a deal with the British Columbia team
    ( i heard that on the Canadien broadcast station before the draft...)
    So, that no doubt attributed to him falling through the cracks.
     Remember, Bo Jackson slipped to what, the 9th round...
    
    According to USA Today, the Raiders draft graded out to a B.  They
    didn't pick up OL or DB help that then needed.  Put emphasis on
    boistering pass rush with speedy outside guys.  Loaded up on middle
    and late round choices.
    
    JD

    Bo Jackson was the very *first* player drafted in the 1985 NFL
    draft.
    
    Tampa Bay drafted him and he spent the summer playing AA baseball
    in Memphis.
    
    I forget how the Raiders got him.  Did they draft him in the 9th
    round in 1986 ???
    
    Bob Hunt

�    Harris' arm was questioned by scouts after tryouts. 

The arm responded well to questions asked of it by the sports writers.
It did hedge a little of some of the practices of the hand, but
that was to be expected.

The legs were not available for comment...

    Major Harris not having a strong arm ? HAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!
    
    Typical b.s. propaganda by the 'scouts'. Funny, but The Major's
    arm looked damned strong to me when I saw him play .... he could
    fire a football something like 60 yards flatfooted. And considering
    the job he did this year with a less-than-awesome WVU team, he deserved
    better .....
    
    Oh well, if Al Davis and crew are paitent, the Raiders may have
    gotten an all time Steal Of The Draft ...

    
    re: -1   See above.........................^
    

    What does .217 have to do with .218 except the author?

I don't think the Raiders will get the chance at Harris.  I don't 
think he'll settle for 12th round money when the CFL will probably
pay a lot more.

Too bad.  I think in a run and shoot, or an attack that that lets
the QB improvise (similar to Cunningham and the Eagles) Harris
could excel.

I hope he gets the chance someday.

Mike

    Doc,
    I got it wrong - "Harris' passing accuracy and ability to play
    pro-style offense were questioned."
    
    Like it or not, but QB's that come out of wishbone and option type
    offenses do not get rated as highly as those who play the pro-set.
    It was also felt that the Major could have used the extra year because
    a weak QB year turned into a pretty decent one with all the juniors
    coming out.   Teh CFL move was dumb on his agent's part - shouldn't
    have revealed it til after the draft.  Why pick a guy high when
    you know he's close to signing with Canada - and you retain his
    rights for 4 years, but after then....
    
    Like it or not, the NFL scouting combines don't look at college
    record - they look at ability - and passing accuracy and pro-set
    experience are two important factors for QBs.  Look at RB Johnny
    Bailey, he lasted til the 9th despite rushing for 6,320 career yards,
    Duke's Clarkston Hines who set the NCAA career record for TD catches
    lasted li the 9th - both are considered too small, as was LB Ned
    Bolcar of Notre Dame.
    
    JD

    Doc, The problem with Harris was not his arm strenght but his passing
    ablity. He would pass with a different arm motion everytime (side arm,
    over the top, held the ball low). All examples of poor coaching. He also
    failed real bad the test offered to college qb to find the open receivers.
    Hes a great athlete and every team in the NFL would have given him
    the chance to develope if they thought he would sign, he stands to 
    make more money in the CFL. 
    
Chuck

I think Harris will do well in the CFL and in about 2 years want to come
down and play the real game.... The RAIDERS will have his ass tied up for
what about 4 years or so if he wants to come back down......


Monty

    JD and Monty,
    
    I don't think the Raiders have Harris' rights for 4 years, do they ?
    
    I thought it was one year tops, then he goes back into the draft,
    then becomes a free agent, right ? 
    
    re .222
    
    Chuck, take a good look at Bernie Kosar - he's the only QB I've
    seen with 3 different arm motions during a single attempt. That
    is immaterial.
    
    I must agree with you JD, his agent played it stupid. He gave the GM's the
    opening they needed to pass on him, costing Major some serious bucks.
                                                            
    And once again, I thought that Major coming out early was not a
    good move - this proves it. It will probably cost him big bucks.
    
    re Johnny Bailey,
    
    I'm really disappointed by that. Which team got him ? I don't care
    what anybody says, Bailey is a smaller version of Barry Sanders,
    and knows how to make people miss. He can flat out RUN !
    
    Doc

    Doc,
    
    According to the report in USA today, the Raiders keep his rights
    for 4 years IF he signs with the CFL - if not I believe they have
    him for a year - unless he makes the team or they trade him, etc.
    
    If he goes to Canada, and he performs well, it may seem like a
    brilliant move - because thanks to Warren Moon and Joe Theismann,
    there is a precedent.  
    
    A lot of juniors make bad decision.  There's a local guy - UWash
    - a DB named Burkholter or sumthing - he went out early, and said
    he expected to go in the 5th-6th round - he wasn't picked.  He put
    on a brave face, but he was obviously devastated.
    
    JD

    
    The BIG difference between Harris and Kosar is that Kosar is accurate
    and poised. Harris is extremely erratic and gets rattled very easily.
    
    The RAIDERS hold his rights for 4 years IF he signs with Canada. If he
    just sits out a year, ala Bo, he goes back into the draft.
    
    I will be VERY surprised if Harris ever plays in the NFL. He is not an
    NFL calibre QB. I saw him play a few times and thought he was
    incredibly over-rated/over hyped. He is not that good. He tries to be a
    one man show. He gets "happy feet", throws it up for grabs regularly
    under pressure, and is very inaccurate. The only real plus I see in him
    is that he has excellent "athletic ability".
    
    He wasn't a "bad" pick. It was the last round. It was known that he is
    looking toward Canada. If by some miracle he turns into a top quality
    QB in Canada, the RAIDERS retain his rights for 4 years. They don't
    fork out big bucks for a stiff but could get a good player later. Being
    the last round they really didn't miss out on anyone. They can now sign
    any player not drafted to a free agent contract. All-in-all, I would
    say that he was a good 12th round pick.
    
    I think Bo was taken in the 4th round after he sat out a year.
    
    Carlos,
    I never heard of Smith, 1st round, either. From what I have heard since
    the draft he was a DE @ Arizona. He only weighed something 255 but
    built up to a solid 270 now. He is fast and projected as being able to
    switch from DE to OLB, ala Townsend. I was happy to see them get Aaron
    Wallace in the 2nd round. I have seen him a couple of times and he is a
    bigtime hitter. Most of their other picks, I have never heard of. I
    will put in the scouting reports when I get them.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
    I think it was probably a great pick.  A 12th round pick almost
    always does nothing anyway.  Now they have a chance to get him groomed
    in the CFL for a few years (when he wouldn't be playing in the NFL
    anyway, he'd be learning the system).  Once that is over, they'll
    have an idea of whether to sign him or not.  No risk at all to the
    Raiders.  
    
    I believe he is Raiders property until 1 year after his contract
    with the CFL expires, unless he goes back into college.  It looks
    like a good move, a la the Jackson or Walker signings.
    
    Bruce

    I saw Harris play live once this season, and he's the type of player
    who looks to run first and pass second.  I'm not sure how much of
    that is due to happy feet.
    
    It is a good, low-risk move for the Raiders.
    
    So many of these guys have such an over-inflated opinion of themselves.
    Whether it's an agent telling them to come out for the money, or
    pro scouts not being straight with them about their chances, these
    guys end up being hurt.  The NFL looks like the bad guys when in
    reality the league is in a no-win situation.
    
    John

    The Raiders have "acquired Napolean McCallum from the Chargers for an
    undisclosed future drate choice."
    
    Live from Charger Central....
    
    Glenn

Wonder if they will use him as a fill in till Bo get's home....

Monty

    Is Nap done with his navy duty???

Chuck

    Not yet.  I think his committment is up in July.
    
    Glenn

    Will the Raiders go after McMahon?  He'd be a natural in the silver &
    black!

    MacMahon is McOverrated ..... keep him ..... stick with Schroeder,
    Berulein or Harris

    
    McMahon is a stiff.
    
    
    
    Steve

    The Raiders have told Major Harris' agent to suspend talks with BC of
    the CFL until `certain things' have happened.  They have also said not
    to worry about 12th-round money.
    
    pete

      It don't matter,  the faiders still need a "quality" qb.

    Anybody know what the pre and regular season schedule looks like?
    

    Regular Season (all times Eastern)
    
    Sun 9/9	Denver		4
    Sun 9/16	at Seattle	4
    Sun 9/23	Pittsburgh	4
    Sun 9/30	Chicago		4
    Sun 10/7	at Buffalo	730
    Sun 10/14	Seattle		4
    Sun 10/21	at San Diego	4
    Sun 10/28	Open Date
    Sun 11/4	at Kansas City	1
    Sun 11/11	Green Bay	4
    Mon 11/19	at Miami	9
    Sun 11/25	Kansas City	4
    Sun 12/2	at Denver	4
    Mon 12/10	at Detroit	9
    Sun 12/16	Cincinnati	4
    Sat 12/22	at Minnesota	4
    Sun 12/30	San Diego	4
    
    Don't have the preseason schedule.
    
    John

    Thanks for the schedule , but whats the deal with the open date?
    
    Carlos

    >	whats the deal with the open date?
                                  
    17 week season this year.  Every team has one open date.  
    
    
    py

    NFC West teams are off the weekend of Sept 30, NFC East, Oct 7;
    AFC East, Oct 14; NFC Central, Oct 21; AFC West, Oct 28; AFC Central,
    Nov 11 and 5th place teams from last year, Dec 16.  1990 and 1991
    have the 16 games played over 17 weeks and the week off between
    the Conference Championships and Super Bowl is eliminated; beginning
    in 1992, the season will be played over 18 weeks.
    
    John

    
    announced on Arsenio Hall last night, at 41 years old Lyle Alzado
    will be attemping a comeback. Says he's been working with some
    Russian doctors and trainers who have rebuilt his muscles with
    different exercise.
    
    great answer when Arsenio asked why:
    
    "I've got this burning desire still in my stomach, that I love to
    kick ass and I still can do it so I'm going"...or something to that
    nature......
    
    mike

   > Says he's been working with some
   > Russian doctors and trainers who have rebuilt his muscles with
   > different exercise.
    
    Read this as a new Roid!!!!

    
    Naw he was saying how they design the exercises to pull the muscle 
    away from the bone first and then rebuilt it through arobic style
    exercises to repair the liasions and tears. Oh and of course he
    quaranteed they win a championship with him back....
    
    mike

             <<< Note 44.200 by COMET::MONTGOMERY "I'm the NRA" >>>


>>    read in the paper this morning where Lyle Alzado is allegedly coming
>>    out of retirement to be a "part-time pass rusher" and assistant coach.  
    
> You gotta stop readin the Inquirer......
> either that or Uncle Al has brain damage to let him play....


>Monty

    It's been no secret to the Raider faithfull. They have known for quite
    some time now even though they won't admit it. The man is loosing it. 
    Al is going to sign Hulk Hogan next week and appoint him as 
    Director of Player-Personell. Yes indeed! 
    
    BoB   

>>    It's been no secret to the Raider faithfull. They have known for quite
>>    some time now even though they won't admit it. The man is loosing it. 
 
hahahahahahahahahaha (tm)

Uncle Al has made some moves in the past that were a bit strange but in
the end those moves have proven to be right on the money!!!!

Of course some moves made by Blevves (ala sideline tony) have proven there
worth... $$$$$$ flushed....

Monty

    
    >> Uncle Al has made some moves in the past that were a bit strange but
    >> in the end those moves have proven to be right on the money!!!!
    								^
    								|
								|
   >   Like moving the team to LA?				|
    								|
								|
    				he did make lots of this---------

and one other by taking a chance on a Q.B. from an east coast team that
was traded to S.F.


        
    

       Here's a little tidbit out of yesterdays Globe:
    
    The hottest rumor circulating around some NFL circles is that the
    raiders mistakenly drafted Arizona defensive end Anthony Smith in the
    belief it was his teammate, Pats top choice Chris Singleton, rather
    than Smith who had had drug problems.
                                        Denny

    What kind of drug problem does or did Anthony Smith have???

Has anyone heard the talk going on about Williams going to the RAIDERS???



Mnty

    Monty, do you mean Doug Williams?  I did read something about that last
    week.  Maybe he and Schroeder will again compete for a backup spot.  
    
    IMHO, if the Raiders don't keep Beurlein in the starters job, they're 
    stupid.  
    
    But I tell you what I DO like....the rise, once again, to prominence of
    the AFC West....soon to again be the best division in football. 
    Raiders improving, Seahawks maybe falling, Broncos the same, Chargers
    moving up, and KC looking tough.  Go AFC West.
    
    Glenn

       If they're gonna go after experienced QB's I think they
    would do good to sign McMahon, rather than Williams, although
    he's got a big mouth and they're both injury prone, IMO he's
    better than Williams. But rather than going after QB's they
    should work with what they've got in Beurlein, Schroeder, and
    Harris and concentrate on filling other more needed positions.
                                                        
                                                   Carlos

    >The hottest rumor circulating around some NFL circles is that the
    >raiders mistakenly drafted Arizona defensive end Anthony Smith in the
    >belief it was his teammate, Pats top choice Chris Singleton, rather
    >than Smith who had had drug problems.
    
    Probably why most writers who rate how each team did in the draft place
    the Raiders dead last.  Something like 3 of the 4 ratings I saw had the
    Raiders there, and the 4th wasn't too hot a grade either.  
    
    Dan

    From what I've heard, they haven't identified the drug that the
    Raiders' draft pick is on...but they have determined beyond a shadow of
    a doubt that HE SWEATS TOO MUCH!!!!
    
    
    Schlep hip hpos,
    
    Nelly

>    Monty, do you mean Doug Williams?  I did read something about that last
>    week.  Maybe he and Schroeder will again compete for a backup spot.  
 
Yeah ,  Doug... Afriend told me yesterday that he heard the rumor
   
>    IMHO, if the Raiders don't keep Beurlein in the starters job, they're 
>    stupid.  
   
I agree 100% Glenn............
 
 >   But I tell you what I DO like....the rise, once again, to prominence of
 >   the AFC West....soon to again be the best division in football. 
 >   Raiders improving, Seahawks maybe falling, Broncos the same, Chargers
 >   moving up, and KC looking tough.  Go AFC West.
    
  
Watch out for K.C. in the next few years... The Chargers are turning their
system around and will be a big contender... The donk's are going down the
turlet!!!!!


Monty

 >>>The donk's are going down the turlet!!!!!

Monty,  The Donk's are only swirling at this time.  The SEAchicken's 
have been flushed. 

Jeff

     Look for the raiders to finish last in the division this year.  Too
    much competition for 'em.
    
       Tim

    
    Smith was a a street gang when he was a kid, ala several other NFL
    players that became stars (Alzado is the first to come to mind). I
    forget the whole story, rather interesting, but I just got their draft 
    report but haven't had a chance to read it yet. I'll try to remember to
    put it in tomorrow.
    
    Dan,
    The reports I have read are quite different from your claims. They got
    a great pass rusher (in college anyway) in Smith and Aaron Wallace, an
    All-American LB that was rated very high by everyone and is a need
    position. Certainly not like that stiff Lageman (sp?).
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    >The reports I have read are quite different from your claims. They got
    >a great pass rusher (in college anyway) in Smith and Aaron Wallace, an
    >All-American LB that was rated very high by everyone and is a need
    >position. Certainly not like that stiff Lageman (sp?).
    
    My claims come from well-published local and national publications such
    as The National and The Boston Globe, as well as media experts such as
    Mike Francessa.  
    
    Smith was much worse that "in a street gang as a kid".  His drug
    problems are very recent.  He attended 3 different colleges, which says
    a lot about his stability.
    
    Lagaman was rated as the 5th best NFL rookie last year.  It was said by
    a Raider front office man that he was very disappointed when the Jets
    took him, as the Raiders were planning to take him soon.  I'm sure if
    he had been picked by the Raiders, you wouldn't refer to him as a
    stiff.
    
    Wallace appears to be a good pick for the second round, but I read he
    needs a lot of seaoning.  Don't expect immediate impact.
    
    Unless Smith surprises everyone, he was a bad pick for the Raiders. 
    That is why nearly every publication had the Raiders at or near the
    bottom of draft success.
    
    Dan

    
>    My claims come from well-published local and national publications such
>    as The National and The Boston Globe, as well as media experts such as
>    Mike Francessa.  
 
Should I laugh now or latter!!  ;^)


   >Smith was much worse that "in a street gang as a kid".  His drug
   > problems are very recent.  He attended 3 different colleges, which says
   > a lot about his stability.
    
   Remember that the RAIDERS have the history of taking guy's like this
   and making them into great players and good people....


Monty

   >Remember that the RAIDERS have the history of taking guy's like this
   >and making them into great players and good people....
    
    There is something to that.  But that's a big risk to take on a guy
    with a high draft pick.  There's a lot of teams who wouldn't have taken
    Smith with any pick - they want no part of him.  I also think that with
    the problems this kid as head, he's not your typical Raider loose
    cannon project.
    
    Dan

    
    And now for something completely different, a little truth...
    
    
    Smith did not go to three colleges. He went to Alabama for 3 years and
    Arizona 1 year. Your claims that his gang/drug activity was recent is
    so far out in left field the Bo Jackson couldn't slam one that far. The
    truth of the matter is, he was in a gang in Jr. High. A football coach
    saw him and talked him into playing. His gang/drug activities stopped
    at that point. Betcha didn't know he plans on being a federal probation
    officer after his football career is over. When Art Shell was asked why
    they took Smith with their first pick since they have Long, Townsend,
    Wise, Davis, Golic and Pickel; Shell replied that they take who they
    feel is the best player available regardless of position and that they
    like his attitude and work ethic.
    
    Pardon me folks for repeating the rebuff of the MU about Lagaman but
    here goes, again. The RAIDERS did not have a 1st round pick. They
    made a trade with Dallas who had the 1st pick in the 2nd round to get
    the guy they wanted, Steve Wisniewski, not Lagaman. From what I had
    read, no other team projected Lagaman higher than a mid round pick,
    except the Jets. Claiming he was the 5th best rookie last year is a
    total joke. Just because he started for the worst team in the AFC
    doesn't make him the 5th best rookie.
    
    Aaron Wallace was considered one of the best pass rushers in college
    ball over his career at Texas A&M. These accolades are backed up by the
    fact that he broke Jacob Green's school career sack record by 5 sacks,
    42 to 37.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Being from Texas I agree with your assesment of Aaron Wallace, but
    he tapered off after the season was over thinking he had it made.
    His stock dropped considerably in the eyes of the scouts when he
    decided to eat his way out of a top ten pick.  His attitude made
    many teams turn away from him, but under the Raider system this
    guy will become a player.

    >And now for something completely different, a little truth...
    
    Different for you?  Certainly not for me.
    
    >Betcha didn't know he plans on being a federal probation
    >officer after his football career is over.
    
    Why I had no idea!  He can now marry my sister.  I'm sure these future
    plans means he's a great football player so why not take him in the
    first round when he'll still be there the next day?
    
    >The RAIDERS did not have a 1st round pick. They
    >made a trade with Dallas who had the 1st pick in the 2nd round to get
    >the guy they wanted
    
    Hoot, maybe you should get in touch with the Raiders front office,
    because they are the ones who are telling a different story.  I'm just
    repeating it for your benefit.  Perhaps the two of you can agree on a
    new party line, but they might be a little busy trying to find some
    fans they can bilk at the moment.
    
    >Claiming he [Lageman] was the 5th best rookie last year is a
    >total joke. Just because he started for the worst team in the AFC
    >doesn't make him the 5th best rookie.
     
    And a good joke at that because all kinds of people are repeating it,
    most of whom know what they are talking about.  BTW, a good first round
    pick is expected to make an immediate impact.   I don't see your logic
    in critisizing Jeff for that.
    
    Dan
                    

      Major Harris and the British Columbia Lions said Wednesday,
    they are close to signing a contract that would bring the former
    West Virginia QB to the CFL.
                                                 Carlos

    Harris signed a 2 year deal with the Lions for $75K/ year and a $30K
    signing bonus.  Mark Gastineau is going to try a comeback with the
    Lions as well.
    
    pete

    Gastineau?  Oh, wait, BC Lions, had me worried Detroit ain't no
    place for wimps!!!

    The Pittsburgh Gladiators of the indoor football debacle have said they
    will match any offer made in Canada to Harris and Harris has said he
    will play for the Gladiators if they do match offers.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Dan,
    Just who are these informed sources of yours that you claim named
    Lagaman the 5th best rookie last year? I haven't heard that from 
    anyone except you. Would it possibly be a New York paper? 

    Hoot,
    
    I was one of those sources. Why do you ask?
    
    JoJ

    >Just who are these informed sources of yours that you claim named
    >Lagaman the 5th best rookie last year? I haven't heard that from 
    >anyone except you. Would it possibly be a New York paper? 
    
    It's within the realm of possibility, but, no, it's not a NY paper. 
    The two sources that I know are Bobby Beathard, now the GM of the San
    Diego Chargers and one of the most respected minds in football, and Hub
    Arkish (he just included Lagamen in his top 7 - no rankings after
    Sanders) who knows more about pro football than anyone I've ever heard. 
    He's the editor of Pro Football Weekly.
    
    I know neither of these sources are Al Davis, but they just might know
    what they are talking about anyway.
    
    Dan

    >Bobby Beathard 
    
    Take what he say's with a grain of salt.... He's been know to come
    up with some whoppers in the past...

    
    Hoot, It was JOJ's Jets Newsletter.  Do you doubt the source?  8^)
    
    The Oakland Trib just conducted a poll of the people of Oakland
    to find out if they wanted the RAiders back.  It came out
    overwhelmingly negative.  It seems the people are tired of all the
    crap about they are back/no they aren't.
    
    Bruce

    
    I'm not surprised about the poll results, Bruce. The old fans got
    excited about the return and then get the rug pulled out from under
    them.
    
    Ah yes, Bobby Beathard of the "insiders" fame, or should that be shame?
    He would come up with some wild trade or other "inside" info every
    week. Did any of it ever actually happen? I don't think so.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    >Ah yes, Bobby Beathard of the "insiders" fame, or should that be shame?
    >He would come up with some wild trade or other "inside" info every
    >week. Did any of it ever actually happen? I don't think so.
    
    Such as?
    
    I wonder why the Chargers hired him, and why he was pursued by so many
    teams to be the head of the organization.  I mean, the Hoot and Monty
    Raider Defense Team say the guy "tells whoppers" and "comes up with...
    wild trades".
    
    Is Beathard really just out of place in the front office of an NFL
    team?  Or does his post-season evaluation of the NFL rookies carry a
    lot of weight?
    
    Dan

    Beathard did more than "fairly well" with the Deadskins.  That man
    built the Skins into a very tough team.
    
    Joe Gibbs was very lucky to have Beathard acquiring players for him.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Bobby Beathard has always been one of the most highly respected
    scouts/personnel directors/general managers in the NFL.  I admire
    him not only because he's done a good job, but he did it in a way
    where it didn't become his whole life.  He has interests outside
    the game, he didn't demand that his scouts spend the entire Fall
    on the road and he's got a good sense of humor.  No reason to bash
    him, other than envy.
    
    John

    Beathard is a fantastic gm, personnel director, and judge of talent.
    He was a horrible analyst for football.  It wasn't his element,
    and it was a stupid concept.  Glad to see he got back to doing what
    he does best.
    JD

    plus, hes a runner, which makes him a great guy.  :)
    
    dinz
    

    Myth:  Once a Raider always a Raider.
    Fact:  Really? Tell that to Madden or Flores. They can convince
           otherwise.
    
    Myth:  The Raiders have the ability to take cast offs and misfits
           and turn them into winners.
    Fact:  REally now?  When was the last time that happened? Sometime
           early in the last decade?
    
    Myth:  The Raiders are opportunists.
    Fact:  The Raiders use to be opportunists. Their recent season records
           speak clearly enough. 
    
    Myth:  The Raiders have a 'Commitment to Excellence'.
    Fact:  See recent records and playoff showings. That's some committment.
    
    Myth:  The Raiders are only a player or 2 from the bowl.
    Fact:  The Raiders are only a player or 2 from a better than .500
           season.  
    
    Myth:  Al Davis is a football genius.
    Fact:  Al Davis needs to step up, aside or wherever he can to get out
           of the way.  His day is past. Personally, I hope he stays.
    
    BoB  
    

    A sportswriter from Pittsburgh was quoted in a recent issue of Austin
    paper.  He really ripped into the Raiders for bringing back Lyle
    Alzado.

    
    If .286 was an attempt to get a rise out of someone, I suggest going
    back to the drawing board. That was pathetically weak.

    Sounded kinda true 'tho.

      ditto that!!
    	Tj

    
    >  FACT:  Once a RAIDER always a RAIDER.
    >  MYTH:  Really? Tell that to Madden or Flores. They can convince
              otherwise.
    
       FACT:  They're both still RAIDERS at heart, unfortunately
              they probably advanced as far as they could within
              the RAIDER orginization and moved on to bigger and
              better careers.
    
    >  FACT:  The RAIDERS have the ability to take cast offs and misfits
              and turn them into winners.
    >  MYTH:  Really now? When was the last time that happened? 
    
       FACT:  Sadly, it seems as though they've lost this great ability,
              ex: No matter how hard they tried they just couldn't 
              reshape that loser Shanahan into a winning coach in the
              NFL so they sent him back where he came from.
              
         
            To close to quiting time to continue,maybe later though.
    
         Carlos
    

I'll help Carlos....

    
>    Myth:  The Raiders are opportunists.
>    Fact:  The Raiders use to be opportunists. Their recent season records
>           speak clearly enough. 
 
	They just went thru another coach change, watch for them to be back
	on top!!!!

   
>    Myth:  The Raiders have a 'Commitment to Excellence'.
>    Fact:  See recent records and playoff showings. That's some committment.
 
	Who still holds the winning percentage for a pro team in any
	sports??? not to be passed soon!!!
	That Commitment also has got them 3 rings on their fingers!!!
   
>    Myth:  The Raiders are only a player or 2 from the bowl.
>    Fact:  The Raiders are only a player or 2 from a better than .500
>           season.  
 
	That not a myth, watch what happens this season....
   
>    Myth:  Al Davis is a football genius.
>    Fact:  Al Davis needs to step up, aside or wherever he can to get out
>           of the way.  His day is past. Personally, I hope he stays.
 
	
	He has been voted for induction into the hall of fame and will
	make it in the next go around!! They don't let wana-bees into the
	hall!! The NFL would not be where it's at today with out this
	man!!!!! 
   
   
Any more trash to spew???

Monty
    

    >    The Raiders are only a player or 2 from a better than .500
    >    season.  
                                            
    With the extra wild card added this year, a "just better than .500
    season" may be enough to get into the playoffs...
    
    
    py

>      Yeah, where's my $20.00 you FFF'in welch?  You spew your trash,
 >    Steven
  
  come over to the FCC site some day and i'll have it for you....
 just keep your eye on the trees because we shoot donk fan's comin up the
road and then expose them to RAIDER films over here... We really don't test
for EMI/RFI this is the nerve center for re-education for those that favor
orange... ;^)


  

You've got to tell them... you've got to tell them...

Solyent Orange is Donk's fans...Solyent Orange is Donk's fans!!

Tell them.....

      Davis into the HOF?  Thats a joke, so this means that he will
    probably get in. What did he do that so spectacular besides waisting
    tax $$$$????
    
    		Tim

    Tim,
    
    Al Davis, despite his detractors, has been one of the most important
    figures in the history of professional sports.  He was the commissioner
    of the AFL, and is widely viewed as one of the people most responsible
    for the AFL/NFL merger (though Pete and the boys tried to cover
    it up, as much as possible).  Davis was instrumental in the growth
    of the old AFL, and despite the howls of Broncos fans, and others,
    has been the owner of one of the most successful franchises in the
    AFL, AFC, and NFL, a franchise that has  won 3 super bowls.
    
    While I haven't been too crazy about AL's recent dealings with moving
    the team, I can't argue with his contributions to pro football.
    
    JD

    The Raiders no longer have the all-time winning percentage in pro
    sports.  That honor belongs to the Boston Celtics.  I think the
    Canadiens and Yankees are close, the Lakers are close but I don't
    have all the data I need to figure them out.
    
    The Raiders through 1989 are 285-171-11 for a percent of .622. 
    Not including playoffs, the Celtics through this season were 2169-1226
    for a percentage of .639.  If playoffs are included, they are 2427-1399
    for a percentage of .634.
    
    JD, I agree with you about Al Davis.
    
    John

    ...so there!!
                                      Denny

    The only other teams above .600 are the Canadiens and Lakers, both
    around .610.  The only other team close is the Yankees, around .575.
    Cain't figure the Habs, Lakers and Yanks out exactly, since I don't
    have the last 3 years season records, but I don't think it matters
    much.
    
    John

    re .302
    
    Al has won 3 Super Bowls and a AFL title. Dean has 1 championship
    (barely), and a host of Excellent Losses (tm)
    
    Nuff said !

Well I guess this is as good a place as any!!!




I'm leavin DEC, yes folk's I took the buyout right after I got a call From
Uncle AL to work for the RAIDERS... Special Asst. in charge of Lunatics and
converting Donk's fan's to Americas Team!!! ;^)

I will miss you guy's!! That's about the only thing I'll miss about this 
place.... I'll keep in touch every now and then thru some other noters when
football season comes around... If any of you ever get to Colorado you can
find me at the Green Mountain Falls Fire Dept. about 25 miles from CX0...
I have a chance at a job at another Fire Dept. as a full timer and won't find
out for about a month...

So, Remember me when the RAIDERS beat your team and keep those Donk fans 
inline!!!

Later Monty


P.S.  There's a rumor that another RAIDERS fan is leaving us too!!!    
      Soory Carlos , you might be the only one left..


One other P.S.---  I want to thank Mr. Hendry for all that he has done with
                   giving us the fact's and stat's....
				Thank's John!!!!!

Monty

 Good luck Monty, I'm going to miss your unobjective analysis this football
 season... ;^) I'll try to pick up the slack and keep the donk fans inline...

 ;^)

mike

    Hope the job works out for you, Monty.  I'll keep an eye out
    along Ute Pass for a car plastered with FAIDER stickers.
    
    Cowboy

    You're welcome Monty.  Seriously, good luck and we'll miss you.  
    If you ever have any Raiders questions or any other things that
    come up, relay them through Hoot and I'll be happy to answer them.
    
    John

    Hoot(?) may also be leaving?  Oh no!  This files gonna be in trouble if
    that's the case!
    
    H�wk, stayin' put....

    Well MonteQue,
    
    	It's been real.....it's been fun.....AND it's been real fun
    	bashing with you.  Hold on to your burgers n buds!  Hopefully
    	them firepersons can get you converted from the dark side to
    	a Donk fan.  We could use another completely objective fan
    	like yerself... :^)
    
    	Adios..........
    
    Claybone

    
    Best of luck and all that, Monty.  Hope the full-time fireman thing
    pans out, hoser.
    
    Dickster
    

    
    Hoot and Monty leaving at the same time?  Hmmmmm.
    
    Godd luck.
    
    Bruce

    Rotsa ruck, Monty, and keep the anti's in line.
    
    Mark.

       Good Luck Monty!
       Toad's leaving too.
                                       Denny

Later MOnty...


 I'll miss talking knowlegeable 'merican football with ya...


 Too many anti-donks leaving ........


       Metz

    good luck  monty..
    
    dinz
    

Oh Yeah!!!

Does anyone want to buy an FFL team????
The Colorado Sportsters are up for sale real cheap....
Division D FFL.....

Monty

    

Monty --


Best of luck to you.  Take good care.

There's not one person in the entire world who has eaten smoke
that doesn't feel at one time or another that they want to do
it full time.  I am envious!

A couple of points to remember:

		1.  When rescuing pretty female victims, 
		    encourage them to let you do mouth-to-mouth
		    as that will allow you to keep your skills
		    current.

		2.  When you're up on the aerial, always try
		    to spit on the Chief's head...during the
		    confusion at a fire, he'll never know it
		    was you, and you'll feel good.

		3.  Ventilate a lot....it's easy work, and it
		    looks cool to people watching.

		4.  There are worse things to do in life than
		    hump hose.

		5.  Finally, the bestest tool in the whole world
		    for ventilation is a CHAINSAW!!!!!


Take care, dude,
'Saw

    Later Mont-dude... like have a most excellent adventure chasing
    fires, man, say hi to that bodacious Darryl Hannah for me... whoops,
    wrong movie, gotta keep that nose clean...
    
    -Walt

    
    And don't forget to clean your nozzle, too.
    

    Hey Monty, CONGRATS!  Hope everything works out with the new job.  This
    is depressing though, when hearing the anti's are bailing out.
    
    					Steve

    Congrats Monty, I just wish you'd have been around when the Rams kick
    the paRaiders (tm) out of L.A. and clean up that city once and for all. 
    
    
    the devil dog

      Its been fun bashing at/with ya Monty.  Hope we can get you out to
    the field and play some ball again.  Good luck, and don't feel to bad
    about being a closet donk fan ^^^.
    
    	Tim

    
    Yep, I also got a new transmission (or something like that) and can't
    turn down the buyout. I don't have an exact date for the final day yet,
    sometime at the end of this month. Can't bitch. It's  been a great 13
    years. Because of DEC, I have had the opportunity to see some beautiful 
    country in New England and Colorado. I don't have anything definately
    lined up yet, one definate possibility though. I will be around here
    for a couple more weeks. Then I hope to take some time to go fishin'
    and see if I can get my limit of golfs.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Good luck out in the real world, HOOT.  Too bad you won't be
    here for the Donks season. ha
    
    Cowboy

    Hoot, it was a pleasure to know ya.  Best of luck in all your
    endeavors.  If you mail me your home number, I'll look you up when
    I come back out to Colorado (probably in July).  Maybe we can do
    some fishin'.
    
    Keep your lines tight and your powder dry.
    
    Mark.

    Transition 2, ::sports 0  :^(
    
    Hate to see you go Hooter.....who's gonna report on the antics
    of Gerald Perry now?
    
    Claybone

    Well, I guess I'm the only Raider fan left, HOOT, MOnty, GOod luck
    and I'll take up the slack preaching AL's word to the infidels.
    
    JD

�    Transition 2, ::sports 0  :^(
    
Quite a soccer-like score there, Claybone...


HOOT, gonna miss ya dude.  You and Monty were two of the things that
made this file bearable  during football season with all the donking,
and yapping....

If you ever get out this way, don't forget to look the Chainsaw
up.  We'll do some manly things, and hoist a few homebrews!

'Saw

    
    	Later dayz and good luck HOOT and Monty.  Looks like JD, myself,
    and the rest of the RAIDER faithful will have to pick up the slack. 
    
    	Bashing the Donks just won't be the same without you guys. 
    
    
    
    					         Glen J.
    

    You guys take care.  It was a pleasure meeting you.  If/when I make it
    there again, I'll make sure Cactus Jack rounds you guys up.
    
    Dan

    
    All the best, Hoot.  Happy hunting.
    
    Dickster
    

    Hoot, Monty, best of luck to both of you.  
    
    PNO has lost half of its population to the $$$.
    
    Mike

    
    If any of you make it out this way, I'm listed in the Colorado Springs
    phone book under David J. Gibson. I plan on sticking around here.
    
    Also, some of you will remember Todd Survil and Herve Church. They are
    both taking the buyout. Herve is moving to Portland, Ore. and Todd is
    staying here.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Well, damn!
    
    Why is it the buyout always takes the good guys!
    
    Best of luck to both (all?) of you.
    
    A&W

   Attention Hoot and the Parrot:

   	Hey guys.... I was just kiddin' when I said this town wasn't big
   enough for the three of us. ( Shheeeesh! )

   	When the Donks whup the Faiders up side the head (as per usual),
   whose corn flakes can I crap in if not yours?

   	Who else would have the lack of class to try to defend Uncle Al's
   (you know, the guy with 666 tatooed on his haid) braindead decisions.

   	In all seriositicity, I'll miss you guys. Even though we haven't
   met yet, stay in contact, through Jack. Are you having a going away at
   the Rock or the Dublin House?

   	Best of Luck, and keep the shiny side up.

   Mike JN

    Good luck and best wishes Monty ... I'll help pick up the Raider
    Gauntlet .....
    
    BTW, should I tell SPORTS that you are the real Darth Raider ?

       Good Luck to you HOOT! We're losing a lot of good people around
    here also. 
                                     Denny

A quick aside not meant to start a rat hole:


	I agree wholeheartedly with A&W on the buyout taking
	all the good folks.

	I've seen more goldbrickers and goof-offs who get shuffled
	from project to project, never producing anything, but
	still on the payroll.  They have it so easy, they'd probably
	never take the buyout even if it was offered.  Heaven forbid
	the company should actually *fire* them for non-productivity!

	Yup, all the good ones get away, while the deadwood floats
	around clogging up the viaduct.


Thanks for letting me step on the soapbox for a few minutes,
Chainsaw

    See ya Hoot.  Never met ya, but I will miss you and the Mont.  I'll
    look you guys up if I'm ever out there.  My wife has quite a bit of
    family that live in the Springs.  Good luck to ya.
    
    					Steve
    
    P.S. - Frank, the buyout seems to be working quite nicely up here in 
    Maynard.

    I was gonna start the Hoot and Monty going away party topic but I
    didn't figger anyone would show up. 
    
    
    Seriously, if any CS noters wanna go for some brews to wish the dearly
    depaarting well, then lets go for it.

Saw you slay me (tm)

Those were some great ideas!!! Can't wait to try the one out on the chief!!!

Thank's guy's  Will miss the hell out of all of you!! ;^(
Just won't be the same with out login into sports.....

All of you take care!!!


AND REMEMBER THAT THE RAIDERS ARE #1...............



Good luck to all
Monty.....

>  AND REMEMBER THAT THE RAIDERS ARE #1...............
    
    
    Confused to the end, eh Monty?

    
    'Saw,
    People that were rated 1, 4 or 5 were not permitted to go on
    transition. I guess the theory was that they didn't want to lose
    water walkers or permit managers to dump their dirty laundry, so to
    speak, on someone else. They have to deal with their poor performers
    instead of just dumping them on someone else.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

Thanks HOOT, for the info.

At any rate, it's still too bad we won't have your's and Monty's
unique input in here anymore.

Best of luck, and if I ever get out that way, I'll be sure and
look you up!

'Saw

 Good luck Hoot, sorry to see ya go it was fun agreeing with you and
 disagreeing with you the last few years. Enjoy your time off and good
 luck with the hunt....

 on the other stuff perhaps when Digital tighten it's belt again in 91
 the 4's and 5's will get the gate without a generous package?

 mike

    Geez, this is really depressing.  I was out a few days last week,
    so I guess I missed giving my farewell to the Parrot.
    
    Hoot, I'm sure you'll be seeing him, so give him my best wishes
    please.
    
    As for you, it just won't be the same in here, particularly during
    football season.  Can you ask Uncle Al to hire-on another Deccie
    so we can continue to have inside info?  :*)
    
    Really, I'll miss your bullseyes on them Donk fans, especially Jack.
    I and other can shoot from afar, but you were able to get right
    on him.  
    
    Herve, Todd, Monty, Hoot.  Wow, this is really hard to believe,
    that all of you are leaving in the same timeframe.  It's depressing.
    
    So, before I get distracted, I want to wish all of you the very
    best in whatever you do and wherever you go.
    
    Lee

       According to yesterday's Globe, the raiders are interested in Ken
    Sims.
                                         Denny

    
    Will do, Lee. I finally am taking your suggestion from a few years
    back. I think I will go into a career of acrobatics. ha ha ha!
    
    RE: Simms
    I doubt if he would make the team, unless they traded some people away.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
        Although DEC tried to remove these two undaunted RAIDER
    fans by offering them the dreaded package .... it's too late..
    ....infected by radioactive emissions from their CRT's, their
    individual spirits have merged into a single 'entity' living 
    somewhere in virtual memory space .... just waiting and
    watching for the Donks to choke against the RAIDERS again only
    to emerge in its new form ...... "MOOT".... Arrrghhhhhh!
    
        Seriously though, Hoot you're  an inspiration to all, and I'm sure
    God will meet your needs. Sorry I missed Monty, I was out last week,
    please give him my regards. Not to worry, as you just read the 'entity'
    will keep these lost donk fans in place, along with the rest of us 
    RAIDER faithful. If I'm ever up that way I'll let you buy me a brew,
    as it'll probably mean that I took the package too and am looking
    for work.
    
          						Carlos
                                                         

    Losing Monty & Hoot is like:
    
    	(a)  A breath of fresh air.
    
    	(b)  Missing 2 of the Three Stooges.
    
    	(c)  The final blow for the Raiders contingent.
    
    	(d)  A paradox for Donk fans....whom now will they scream about.
    
    	(e)  All of the above.
    
    
    Best of luck.....it's been fun!
    
    Live from Charger Central.....Glenn

    Good luck and enjoy the show... so to speak.
    
    Take care, Hoot!

       Oakland mayor Liomel Wilson got hammered in the election lasted week
    (17% of the vote). He was a strong supporter of paying the extortion
    money to Al Davis.
                                              Denny

    In the USA Today , it has the Raiders sending a 4th round pick to
    the Rams for Greg Bell.
    
    Is there any news of the Raiders signing Doug Williams?? I know
    that they had him in camp a few weeks ago.
    
                                            Kenn
    
    BTW there are many of us in N.H. that wish we would get offered
    the package. Whats the package worth out there??

    
    Yep, that was me, Karen. Bob was here about a month ago. Played with
    Rob Wasserman. Grate show.
    
    
    Bell for a 4th, huh? That would be a nice insurance policy.
    
    Haven't heard anything concerning Williams. Maybe they could bring him 
    in to slaughter the donks twice a year. Nah, that's not necessary. The
    donks can't beat them anyway.
    
    It's official. My last day is the 25th. Get your licks in while you
    still can.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

      You too HOOT??   Even though I work in the same plant as you and have
    never met you,  I will miss bashing with/at ya!!
    
      Not to worry,  I will still verbally abuse the other Raider
    faithfuls, so good luck to ya, and hope you have better luck than I
    have had at catchin' that big Mackinaw, Kokanee, or Walleye.
    
    
    	Tim
    
      P.s.    Go DONKS!!!!!!

    Hoot, who beat Wilson in the mayoral election ? Funny how things
    change - he was looking good a while back.
    
    ANyhow, I'm glad that the people of Oakland stood up to Davis, and
    showed that they had some sense of priorties.
    
    More importantly, I hope that other cities that are starving for
    a NFL team look at Oakland, and learn from it. I see no need to
    reward the imcompetence of a Bidwell, Irsay, or Tose by giving them
    that kind of extortion money.
    
    Hell, I wish I could tank my job, and have DEC reward me like that
    ... :-)

    The Raiders got Greg Bell for an undisclosed draft choice. A good
    move for the Raiders.
    
                                  Kenn

    
    Gotta be happy with that, eh Kenn? The original rumor was a 4th round
    pick. Must be one of those "depending on what he does, decides what the
    Rams get" kind of deals.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    To get a back of Bells caliber for an undisclosed draft choice sounds
    great to me. The Raiders backfield has been in disaray for the last
    year and a half maybe Bell can solidify things.
    
                                   Kenn

    Hoot, since Monday is it for you, Best of luck, buddy.  Take care
    of yourself, and don't buy anything orange-colored!
    
    Lee

    	Yeah take care HOOT.  It was fun *debating* with you.  8^)
    
    				/Don

    
    >    	Yeah take care HOOT.  It was fun *debating* with you.  8^)

    Hoot,
    
    To you in Col., I think that this can be said for all us
    Mass. debaters.
    
    Dickster
    

    good luck Hoot-dude...
    
    -Walt

    You'll be missed Hoot.  But remember, ...
    
    
    
    TWENTY-ONE! TWENTY-ONE! TWENTY-ONE!
    
    ;^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Hoot:::
    
    donet led ure meet lofe an donet git caut wid ure banana waggin'
    
    reegaurds
    
    mi
    

    
    Thanks allot folks! I don't know if I will be able to get in here 
    Monday or not. I'll miss ya!
    
    
    On the RAIDER front...
    
    Tim Brown appeared to be fully recovered from his blown-out knee in
    mini-camp. He was running at full speed with no problems. 
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    I may be too late but Good luck and all the best to ya Hoot!!!!
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

       Good Luck to ya again HOOT!!
                                       Denny

    
    
    
      I heard that Marcus Allen is still under signned.  Rookie Camp
    opens on the 15th & 22nd the veterans come in.
    
    
    
    Mike

I read in the last Sports Illustrated a article regarding Lyle's comeing
back to the Raiders.  After the spring drills one of the coachs said that
with the uniforms on you could not tell an age difference of the players 
out on the field.  Before camp opens the coach said that Lyle was propbably
#8 on the list, with only 7 that will make the team.  I really have a feeling 
that he will make it to at least the #5 spot by the end of camp.  Golic was 
making fun of the fact that he no longer feels like a old man (33 years) 
around the camp, he just looks around the room seeing all the baby faces then
he sees Lyle and gets to feeling good.

We shall see


Steve

    Alzado announced his coming out of retirement during an airing of
    Arsenio Hall.  (This being about four months ago) He said that the
    owner (damn I forget his name) invited him to try out for the team.
    He claims that he is in better shape now, but not as strong, than
    he was during his previous stay.  He also plans, along with Art
    Shell, to bring back the tough image of the Raiders.
    
    The Wizard

    
           With the RAIDERS' ( -vs- Saints) first pre-season
    game only three weeks away I gotta say that I can hardly wait.
    It's been a long cold winter and I'm getting weak from a virus
    caused by an NFL deficiency. I think the Raiders have a good chance
    of taking the division title this year.  I anticipate Schroeder
    to come forth and re-assert himself as a top notch QB this year,
    and I agree with Wiz about the rest of the team getting back their
    mental and physical toughness brought back by Shell, Otis, and 
    Alzado (even if he never plays, just having him around the players 
    might rub off). Don Heineich's (you know, the inventor of the 
    Heineich Maneuver) '90' preview has the Raiders coming in around 
    the middle of the pack. But what does he know anyhow ?
    
    							Carlos
    

    	What lineup changes, if any, can we expect to see from
    	the Raiders this year?
    
    	Claybone

    re: .-1
    
    You mean aside from Alzado? 8-)

    I read that if the Raiders move back to Oakland, the A's will move out.

    Whwere will the A's go, or should I say, where will Jose tell them
    they are allowed to move to....
    
    
    JD

    IMO, the two biggest things that hurt the Raiders last year:
    
    Penalties/mistakes.  I'm not referring to the occasional penalty for
    overaggressive play that any intense team will get, but more the
    "mental lapse" kind of error.  Like Golic getting called for jumping
    offside three times in one drive vs. New England.  Or the guy who tried
    to field a punt deep in his own end against the Giants and set the
    Raiders in a hole for most of the second half.  Or numerous overthrows
    of open receivers, or drops.  Shell did get this team playing with more
    intensity after he took over, but they now need to play with more
    discipline and better execution.
    
    Inability to win on the road.  The Raiders sole win away from LA last
    year was at the Meadowlands vs. the Jets.
    
    How far the Raiders go this year will depend on how much they improve
    in the above two areas.
    
    
    py
                                    

    
    	Tim Brown will be back returning punts, Ron Brown is supposed
    to move back to defensive back (where he played in college) also
    Max Montoya should be starting in the OL.
    
    
    Vinny

     
        You might also see James FitzPatrick, T,(a 300 lb. plan B'er
    from San Diego) on the offensive line, Greg Bell, RB from L.A.,
    Elvis Patterson, DB, also from San Diego,
    Pro Bowl free safety Vann McElroy will also return, he missed most
    of last year with a hamstring injury. 
        Last year the Raiders finished 19th out of 28 in total offense
    (9th in rushing and 25th passing) and 10th in total defense (16th
    against the rush and 5th against the pass). The return of Tim Brown
    should help their hurting passing game a little but they still need
    help at QB. The rushing game should be excellent this year with
    the addition of Bell. Likewise the return of McElroy should help
    the defensive running game considerably as well as the defensive
    passing game, and Ron Brown will be given a look at cornerback,
    a position he played at Arizona State. Elvis Patterson may also
    help in press coverages.
    
    							Carlos
     

      Having T. Brown returning punts will help the Faiders, but all the
    rest will not.
    
      Also,  I thought McElroy was cut last year???
    
    		Tim

    
    	Ron Brown,Greg Bell and Max Montoya won't help? I find that hard 
    to believe. Arron Wallace has signed so he should help at LB and also
    getting to the QB which if the Raiders don't do you could be right
    about being under .500.
    
    
    Vinny

    Carlos,
    
    	Looks like they made some good acquisitions (except Elvis
    	"Toast" Patterson).  Having McElroy back should help them
    	out too.  They still need somebody to *step up* and play
    	QB.......
    
    Claybone

    Tim Brown isn't set in the plans for special teams this year. One
    of the reasons Ron Brown was probably signed is to replace Brown
    on special teams. Greg Bell and Max Montoya were steals! A big key
    is if the Raiders can stay healthy this year. Aaron Wallace should
    have a good chance at starting for the Raiders at OLB this year.
    
    The division looks to be tight from top to bottom. I look for San
    Diego to surprise a lot of people this year. With the exception
    of Denver every team in this division has questions at QB.
    Heres hoping that the Raiders kick but all year long!!
    
                                              Kenn
    
    BTW: Schroeder signed a 1 year 1 million dollar contract yesterday.

        Beuerlein and No. 1 draft pick Anthony Smith are already
    holdouts. Beuerlein who started 7 games and made $140,000 last
    year is seeking something close to the $1 million Jay Schroeder
    signed for this week. Marcus Allen and Greg Townsend are also
    considered possible holdouts. 
        I can't believe Schroeder got $1 mill., although I do think
    he has the potential to be a great QB, I would have waited until
    he performed like a million dollar player first. As for Beurerlein,
    he's dreaming.
    
    Carlos

    What happened with the Phantom Raider Doug Williams ? Last I heard,
    the Raiders asked him to come to a try-out, he was very impresssive
    (according to Art Shell), and I've heard nothing since.
    
    I bet Schroeder would *love* that .... :-)

       Remember Nonty telling us Uncle Al would have to be brain dead to
    have Alzado in camp? Well, guess who's in camp! Someone remind the
    parrot of this if you see him.
                                             Denny

    What good would "One Game Doug" Williams do for the Faiders? Face it
    Doc, he's not worthy of an NFL starting job.
    
    JoJ

        Seems to me that the Raiders picked up an old washed out QB
    not to long ago, that ended up taking them to the Superbowl and
    winning it.
    
    Carlos

    Wardle, if Doug is One Game .... what the hell is K-K-Kenny ?
    
    "No Show" O'Brian ???
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Carlos .... that QB won not one, but TWO SB's for the Raiders ....
    
    And let's not forget how the Raiders picked up a QB who was considered
    washed up by the Oilers at the age of 37 ... fella by the name of
    Blanda .....

    While it's true that Plunket and Blanda did the job for the Raiders,
    it's no reason to assume that One_Game_Doug can do the same. 
    
    He had a great SB, but then again, so did Phil Simms. I'd say Simms is
    the better of the two based on reasonable consistency over the past few
    years. Williams has never proven that he can win consistently....
    
    re: O'Brien
    
    Hey Doc, what does Kenny have to do with this? Why is it that whenever
    you can't back up your argument you change the subject?
    
    I'm still waiting for you to tell me the NFL scouts were wrong about
    Harris....
    
    JoJ

Maybe he's been signed up to haunt Schroeder - lightning doesn't strike
twice... does it?!

Steve :-)

       First round draft choice Anthony Smith agreed to terms yesterday
    morning and reported to camp in time to practice with the team.
    
    Carlos
    

    What were the terms to which Anthony Smith signed?
    
    The Wizard

      Has Alzado callapsed on the field yet?

        Don,t know about the terms of Smith's contract or Alzado's
    status either, but the Raiders and the Saints will be leaving for
    London on Sunday, where they will workout daily against each other
    and then play on the following weekend. Saints head coach Jim Mora
    said he never thinks about Bobby Hebert and doesn't think a game
    against the Raiders in London will promote a trade for the disgruntled
    quarterback. Hebert has said he has played his last down for the
    Saints, and the Raiders have been mentioned regularly as a team
    that might be interested in a trade for Hebert. Also read in the
    paper that Marcus Allen's status with the team is still in limbo,
    meaning that Al Davis still hasn't made up his mind if he wants
    Allen back.
    
    Carlos     
    

    Bobby Hebert for Brian Shaw.  Straight up.

    
    
    
      I read over the weekend that Marcus Allen has been signed.
    
    
    Mike

    In the Boston Globe Sunday it reported that Marcus did sign. It
    was also reported that The Raiders and the Rams are talking about
    a trade that would involve Marcus goin from the Raiders in return
    they will get Kevin Greene a dominating pass rushing LB. I think
    they were just part of a package deal. I cant see the Raiders going
    after Hebert because he doesn't have that strong of an arm, but
    who knows.
    
                                               KENN

   The Raiders should have talked to Indiannapolis.

   They could have traded Marcus to the Colts for Eric Dickerson, three
   starters, and eleven draft choices (those Irsay dudes really know how
   to deal, don't they?)

   Mike JN

      The RAms would be stupid to give up Greene for an old runnin' back. 
    Marcus had his great days, but now he seems to play hurt every year.
    
    	 Tim

    Alzado went down with a knee injury and will require surgery.
    
    
    			Raider_Rich
    

       That's bad knews, I was kinda looking forward to seeing that
    old timer mop the field with Mr. Ed. Is he expected to return after
    he recovers and if so how long will it be.
    
    Carlos

    Sorry to hear about the knee. Alzado would be lucky he could
    clean the locker room with mop let alone a field with Elway. It's
    probably in his overall best intrest to get the injury now rather
    than later when somebody gonna' really screw him up. This entire
    comeback is a farce. Meanwhile back to reality......
    
    BoB

    Is this a career ending injury???
    
                               Steve J.

    It may not be a career-ending injury, but it's a Raider season-ending
    injury.  Afterall, he was single-handedly going to bring back the
    "Raider Tradition."  Now what are they gonna do, ask Jack Tatum to come
    back and paralyze somebody?
    
    	--dan'l

    I really don't think that Tatum was trying to paralyze Stingley.
    Although the game was during the preseason and the hit was not really
    called for, there have been dirtier hits in the league since Tatum
    and Stingley.
    
                                       Kenn

    no offense guys, but is this gonna turn into one of those debates
    again on that matter?
    
    dinz
    

    I didn't mean to imply that Tatum's hit was intentional.  However,
    Tatum was a classless football player (and there have been others).  He
    didn't even bother to contact Stingly after the incident.  Stingly was
    very hurt by this.  I remember him on Monday night football saying so. 
    
    That's an image that will live in me forever.  Here's a guy who is
    paralyzed and his career is over and his biggest question is not self
    pitty as to why this happened to him; the question he asks is why hasn't
    the guy who did this to him even bothered to say anything.
    
    Then later on, Tatum writes a book calling himself an assassin.  Real
    nice rub there.
    
    	--dan'l

    RE.416
    
    Sorry.  Only being in this conference since February I haven't read all
    400+ replies in here yet.
    
    I'll shut up now.  I stated my opinions in .417
    
    
    	--dan'l
    

    Don't take it personally, Flip.  :-)  This particular arguement has
    gone through probably every version of ::SPORTS since its beginning,
    and ol' dINz is a ::SPORTS old-timer, that's why the knock.  And you'll
    have to excuse ol' diNz cause he needs a memorablelabia(tm) real bad
    and cain't wait till the weekend of the 25th.....  :-)
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Hawk

    Somehow, it can't be the same rathole without Hoot and Monty, who
    were the main defenders of Tatum, the cheap-shot artist.
    
    But, I'll let it drop.  No need to take cheap-shots at the king
    of the cheap-shots.  
    
    Also, it would be classless of me to make any further comment about
    Tatum's lack of class.
    
    Dinz, you sure are desperate for something to type about, now that
    your Yankmees are deadmeat!  And George, too.  Is Donbo's career
    over?
    
    Lee

    I agree. I wasn't trying to debate, I was stating my oppinion.
    
    Getting back to the present Raiders, they just signed T Bruce Davis,
    a former Raider, to a contract. I don't understand why they aren't
    showing any interest in Majkowski. If they drafted a quarterback
    #1 in the draft it would cost them what Majkowski wants.
    
    Sorry about the previous topic.
    
                                       Kenn

      Is Majik available ???
    
    Carlos

    gentleman,
    
    i wasnt knocking anyone. just trying to make a point
    
    
    hawk,
    
    youre  right about the boardwalk..
    

    The Raiders have been unsettled at qb since Plunkett left. 
    That's been a long time now. You can't have a winning team
    without a qulaity winning qb. Do you see the parallel here?
    
    Of course Al being the brilliant football mind that he is,
    seems to ignore the fact of the matter. He'd rather bring in
    a 40+ year old DE and get as much press as he can out of 12th
    round qb pick. Grandstanding and talking about that 
    "old Raider tradition" will do little to improve their position,
    at least for this season.
    
    BoB
     

  Boy the Donk fans are certainly boistorous now that Hoot and Monty aren't
  here to keep them in line...  ;^)

  just remember How many broncos does it take change a flat tire?

  one, unless it's a blowout then they all showup....

  mike     

    Carlos,
    
                          Green Bay gave Majkowski til' this Saturday
    to try and negotiate a deal with another team. Howevr it is believed
    that if any team offers Majik a contract then G.B. will then match
    the offer and everyone will be happy. 
    
                                           Kenn
    
    Except of course the team that got used a bargaining tool.
    

    re. 44.416
    
    > no offense guys...
    
    Unless the Raiders pull a trade for a decent QB, the you cant use the
    word "offense" in this note anymore :-)
    
    			Raider_Rich
    

    No Mike. We're not getting boisterous but we do need to get 
    a feel for where the 'new' Raider fans are coming from. 
    Without Hoot and Monty in here I could count on anything
    from a flinch to slam. We will get each other figured out in
    time. Opening day has Denver vs LARads. It's a rivalry that goes
    way back. Win or loose, neither team could ask for a better
    opponent to open with. 
    
    BoB

    
    	Former CU all-Big 8 defensive tackle Arthur Walker, a rookie
    free agent with the RAIDERS, has been cleared of first degree 
    sexual assualt charges in Lincoln, NE.  Walker's genetic tests did 
    not match evidence in the case.
    
    						 glen j.
    

    <<44.429  A FEEL FOR WHERE THE 'NEW' RAIDER FANS ARE COMING FROM>>
    
    I AM NEW TO THE NOTES CONF. AND ALTHOUGH I HAVE BEEN READING A LOT OF
    NOTES IN THIS SUBJECT, THIS IS MY FIRST REPLY. I AM A DIE-HARD RAIDER
    FAN THAT IS STUCK IN NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS LAND. AS THE SEASON GOES ON
    I WILL BE REPLYING IN THIS NOTE MORE OFTEN. I CANNOT ROOT FOR A TEAM
    LIKE THE PATRIOTS, AND LIVING IN PATRIOTS TERRITORY I TAKE CONSTANT
    ABUSE FROM PATRIOT FANS FOR ROOTING FOR THE GREATEST FOOTBALL TEAM
    IN THE WORLD.
    LONG LIVE AL DAVIS AND THE SILVER AND BLACK!!!

Welcome aboard.

One friendly little hint:  Using all upper case is considered shouting
in notes.  Unless you've got one of those ancient terminals w/o
lower case, take you caps lock off.

Have fun, with Hoot and Monty gone, the Raiders need all the support
they can get in here...

'Saw (who's a Giants fan)

    Eddie...........it's about time you finally joined us!
    
    

      He won't last long after the abuse from us Faider haters...

    
    Any word on how lyle a. is doing.......Raiders need all the help they
    can get this year to try and stay out of the seller in there division
    so old Bro. Al won't feel so Bad about the Bad Choice he made to pay
    some shell shocked QB a million bucks to start...Ha ha ha ha.
    
    
    Drewski
    
    P.S. It's been a while since I've been in notes, and so sorry Hoot and 
         Monty are gone I hate that they will be missing out on the bashing
         you Raider Fans are gona this year. But I must admitt They knew
         how to Bust on us Bronco Fans pretty good. To them I say Good 
         wishes and Good-bye. And to the Raider Fans still here I say
         " LET THE GAMES BEGIN SO WE CAN BUST ON YO RAIDER HEAD "
    
    
    
    
    

      Welcome, Eddie
      
      Don't listen to a word these crazy knuckle-heads are saying
    about us or the Raiders taking a bashing cause the only one taking
    a bashing this year is old horse face himself. Which brings up an
    interesting point, have you ever noticed how Bronc fans after a
    while start to take on the characteristics of Elway, like walking
    around with that stupid Elway grin on their face....Ok Ok calm down
      ..... I was just trifling with your giblets.                 
                             
    Carlos

    
    Carlos,
    
     Crazy, knuckle-head, Raiders, Bashing, Old Face, Stupid,
     Trifling Giblets. Sounds like Faider Stew to me. Mmmmmmmmm Good.
     
    
     Drewski
    
    
    

    Hope that all those DONK fans don't choke on that good old "RAIDER
    STEW". Especially after the first game of the season when AL and the
    boys stuff it down Elway's throat. Of course that is if there is any
    room left after the meal of "CHOKE STEW" that the 49ers fed BOY ELWAY
    last january.
    
    takin up HOOT and MONTY'S slack with the SILVER and BLACK
    
    EDDIE F. 

    re Dan'l,
    
    ON Tatum/Stingley - in John Madden's books, he states how Tatum
    wanted to see Stingley, but Stingley's family wouldn't allow it.
    Madden, BTW, was the first non-family member to visit Darryl.
    
    The Tatum as unfeeling animal was pertuated by the Boston media,
    and picked up in other places, such as Pittsburgh, where Tatum is
    often blamed for the hit on Lynn Swann, which was in fact administered
    by George Atkinson.  
    
    JD

    Thinking of this from Stingley's side of the coin.  Picture yourself
    as just being paralyzed for life.  Tatum wanted to see him while he
    was still in the hospital recovering.  It's easily understandable to
    see how Stingley may not have wanted to talk to the guy who just turned
    his life upside down.  Maybe he was just not emotionally ready for it at 
    the time.  I believe Tatum went to see him within a week of the
    accident.  Stingley's beef (and he has publicly stated he has a beef,
    so it's not a story perpetuated by the Boston media) may be that Tatum 
    never attempted to talk to him after the initial rejection.
    
    					Steve

    re .439 (JD) on John Madden:
    
    Stingley was on WBZ's "People Are Talking" show a few years back --
    Darryl said that Madden was not only the first non-family member to see
    him, but that Madden saw him often and still keeps in close touch with
    him.
    
    
    py

    Well the first preseason game is over and the Raiders are 0-1. There
    were some positives that came out of this game for both teams however.
    Some of the plusses for the Raiders; Anthony Smith & Aaron Wallace
    (1st & 2nd rnd. picks) were in the Saints backfield often in the
    2nd half. Greg Bell was running extremely well. The offensive line
    gave both Evans and Schroeder plenty of time. Dennis Price did a
    good job of pass coverage. Overall all the Raiders defense played
    very well except for Ron Brown and Torin Dorn on pass coverage.
    However both Dorn and Brown are both projects at the corner.
    
                                               Kenn

    I've been hearing about Raider Stew, but I think we will all be hearing
    about horseburgers pretty soon, right Bronco fans :-)
    
    			Raider_Rich
    

    Gets to sounding like a broken record in the various team files
    in here.  Every time this particular team or that particular team
    is about to play Denver, they start harping what their going
    to do to Elway. 'We're gonna do this and we're gonna do that to 
    to him'  These are the same people that bash the guy's record
    and yet they still have a perfect grasp to his importance to 
    the team.  They also realize they have a far better chance to loose
    with him in there.  Bring on the Raider's and THEIR million
    dollar qb.
    
    BoB

    Dang! I was sure the Raiders were gonna slaughter the Saints, oh
    well I guess like Kenn said, their was some good things coming out
    of this game, and its still only pre-season. The defense should
    be alot better this year, Wallace and Smith are sure to make an impact. 
    Plus youv'e gotta hand it to "Toast" for keeping the Raiders in
    it until the very last play, which for some strange reason seems
    to be one of the Raiders' trademarks. Schroeder on the other hand
    still needs some work, and you can't blame it all on Schroeder,
    cause there were a couple of dropped passes that were catchable.
    All in all though it went well for a preseason opener.
    
    Carlos 

re .439 and others

Hey JD,

Didn't Tatum write a book?  

I'm sure that I read Tatum somewhere quoted as saying that all he wanted to
do was "hurt anyone that came down his side."  I thought his feeling was that
as long as he didn't hit dirty it was OK...

Having said that I've seen him try and push quite a few Adam's Apples out the
other side with that forearm of his.

rick ellis

    As a witness to the American Bowl at Wembley last SUnday, I can report
    that the Raiders have a lot of work to do if they are going to contend
    this year.  They looked slow and ineffective against the short pass.
    The best show by a QB was Vince Evans (Schroeder and Beulerlein
    sipped) until the final 5 minutes when he made two elementary
    mistakes...(see my review of the game in topic titled 'American Bowl
    '90 - I forget what number it is).
    
    Yeah, I know its only pre-season, but Shell has got a lot of work to
    do.  Marcus, Bo and Lyle can't win the game on their own.
    
    Your foreign correspondent,
    
    PJ

    EVANS  could strp and be the starter.. if the raiders wanna play
    run and gun style football
    
    
    
    dinz
    

    Evans makes too many mistakes to be a starter for anyboday. I don't
    even like him as a back-up QB. He consistently throw into coverage,
    and thats after hanging on to the ball for 5 minutes. Schroeder
    is a much better QB than Evans, and I'm sure they'll sign Buerline
    before the season starts. 
    
    I agree that the Raiders had problems covering the short passes,
    but swing passes to backs and dump offs to the TE have killed the
    Raiders for years. Maybe Wallace can help in that aspect along with
    his pass rush.
    
    The Raiders have excess defensive lineman, when Townsend signs,
    and they should deal someone for some help other places, ie.
    OL,LB,S.
    
    With the exception of the play at QB, I think alot more positives
    than negatives came out of this game.
    
                                            Kenn

      Re. .448
      (Schroeder and Beuerlein sipped)
    
    I didn't even see Beuerlein play?
                          
    The Raiders play San Fran this Saturday, on CBS, should be a good
    game.
    
    Carlos

    re .452:
    
    What is the starting time of Saturday's Raiders-SF game?
    
    
    py    

    
    The time on the schedule I have is set for 9:00, unfortunately it
    doesn't specify if thats A.M. or P.M. ( my guess is P.M. ), or
    what time zone ?? Although the game is being played in Calif. so
    I'm assuming it's Pacific Time.
    
    Carlos
    

    RE: time of game
    
    No way is it 9:00 PM Pacific Time.  I'd bet it's 9:00 AM Pacific
    Time (12:00 EST).  That makes some sense.
    
    The Wizard

    The preseason schedule that I have says the game starts at 9:00pm
    Eastern time.
    
                           Kenn 
    

    Evans does make some pretty basic mistakes, which will probably keep
    him from being a serious contender for teh starting job. On the other
    hand, he has the strong arm, is mobile, and makes good decisions on the
    run.
    
    FWIW, I think Schroeder should be the #1 man, but he has really
    regressed from his level in Washington. Why ? Is his confidence totally
    shot ? Or was 85-86 a fluke, and a result of being with the perfect
    team ?
    
    Man, that Lachey trade looks worse every day ....
    
    Doc

    Schroeder looks more and more every day like he was the beneficiary
    of playing behind a great offensive line. Although I like Schroeder,
    my patience is starting to wear thin. He looks terrible on his short
    passes unless it's an out pattern. Buerline doesn't look like the
    answer either because he seems to have trouble throwing the bomb
    which is a key part of the Raider offense.
    
    With the addition of Montoya from Cincinnati, maybe the line will
    be stable enough for Schroeder to stand in the pocket and find his
    receivers.
    
                                             Kenn

      Did Montoya even play this weekend?  I didn't notice.  Your faiders
    still need a QB and thats all there is to it.  Each QB has his certain
    qualities, but not enough all around ones to take them anywhere.
    		Tj

    Montoya played in the 2nd half. Wisnewski was moved to left guard
    so Montoya could slide into the right guard slot. If Mike White,
    the new QB coach from Illinois, can help Schroeder out with his
    mechanics he should be alright, not great but good. 
    
    I'm not like most Raider fans in the aspect that I feel that Elway
    is in the top 3 QB's in the league. You must give someone credit
    when credit is due and Elway has led the Broncos to 3 Super Bowls.
    
                                         
                                    Kenn

    Is Marino still trying to get out of Miami?
    
    
    John

    
       The NFL's fastest man competition was held last Sunday, and the
    RAIDERS have the distinct pleasure of claiming the two fastest men
    in the NFL. Ron Brown was blowing everybody away, the only one to
    even come close to Brown was Willy Gault in the final round.
                                      
    Carlos

    I thought Deion was one of the fastest. At least he is in baseball.
    Was he in the competition?
    
    
    John

    
       No neon, I don't think he participated, also some guy named Daryl
    Green that plays with the Redskins didn't participate (he's won it 
    like the last 2 or 3 years in a row).
    
    Carlos

    Any $ involved in this?

    
    $25K to the winner.
    
    
    
    Steve

    Well it wasn't pretty bu the Raiders beat the 49ers 23-13. Schroeder
    looked fairly decent and the defense played real well during the
    first half. A must for the Raiders is to get Steve Smith back in
    camp. Vince Evans proved once again why he is just a back up by
    coming in and throwing an interception immediately. How long does
    it take someone to learn how to read a defense. Aaron Wallace once
    again played a solid game and looks to be earning himself a starting
    spot at OLB.
    
    Along with Smith, they also need to sign Greg Townsend. They need
    his pass rush. Does anyone know what the story is with Terry McDaniel?
    I have not seen him in either preseason game and have not seen his
    name on the holdout list. Getting Buerline into camp would be a
    wise decision at this point as well considering that Evans proves
    game in and game out that he's a stiff.
    
                                                Kenn

    I saw most of the game and here are some thoughts.  The score wasn't
    very indicative of what happened.  San Fransisco turned the ball
    over 4 times in the first half leading to a 20-0 halftime lead for
    the Raiders.  Schroeder was consistently off the mark.  Sometimes
    he threw long, sometimes he threw short.  Even the TD throw was
    off target as the receiver had to stop and let the ball catch up,
    luckily he had a huge jump on the defender.
    
    I feel the defense is coming of age finally.  They really seemed
    into the game, starting small fights, etc.  However, they always
    seem to have an UP game against a good team.
    
    Not that I partically like Buerline (horrible redition of spelling)
    , but I think he is better than Schroeder.
    
    The Wizard

What's the story on Vince Evans?

I was watching the telecast and saw him play, then racked my
brain for a day and a half trying to figure out where I might
have heard of him....

Any help would be appreciated...

'Saw

    Vince Evans is a former USC QB who has bounced around the NFL and
    played for the Bears before Jim McMahon got there.
    
    John

Thanks John.

Phew, does that relieve a few brains cells....

'Saw

    I thought he played Ben Casey on TV.
    
    Lee

    Evans was also the starting qb for the Raiders during the 
    scab season several years back. He did rather well in those 
    games and has been in the wings for the Raiders since.
    
    BoB

    
      Saturday, Aug. 18th the Raiders go against the Cowboys in their
    third pre-season game. The Raiders are coming off a convincing win 
    against the defending Superbowl champs  ... in the 49'ers defense,
    it was only their first game of the season while the Raiders have
    the benefit of an extra game ... and it is still only preseason 
    football. In support of the Raiders, there defense shut down Montana
    (1st quarter) and Young for the rest of the game.
    
    Carlos
    
     

    The Raiders signed Steve Smith,FB, yesterday.
    
                                 Kenn

    
    	Did anybody catch Alzado on that new program with Maria Shriver,
    called "On the Cutting Edge" or something like that. He looks like
    he's in great shape, and he seems like he's got a good attitude
    and lots of confidence in himself. Although I think that "neurological
    muscle re-educator" or whatever he called himself is a joke, along
    with that other knucklehead hypnotist thats replaying tapes of Alzado
    back in his greatness, and yelling things at Lyle like "GOTTA GET
    THE QUARTERBACK!" and junk like that. I don't know what makes Lyle
    think he needs that stuff now, he did'nt need it before, and he
    was one of the baddest. Alzado hurt his knee in training camp and
    under went arthroscopic, but he hopes to be ready to go for the
    first game. Raiders coaches indicated that he had a realistic chance
    of making the team. Recently, the former 49'er coach, Walsh was
    asked if he thought Alzado had a chance in his comeback attempt,
    he felt that this was a farce and unrealistic because of the injury
    factor, that is as you get older its easier to get injured, takes
    longer to heal, and as a result your always healing from injuries
    instead of playing. Makes sense, but then again if Alzado was only
    interested in doing things that make sense he would never have
    attempted this to begin with. Either way I hope to see him back
    for as long as his old bones will carry him, or at least 'til he
    bodyslams Elway a few times. 8)
    
    Carlos
                                                                 

    re -1
    
    Remember that Walsh was never one to keep players around past their
    prime.  I doubt any player on the Niners while Walsh was there was ever
    accused of being over the hill.
    
    Bruce

   Lyle is still very well liked in Denver.
   He was always a good player... lotta fire... take no crap.
   He was also very unselfish with his time, money, and energy in work
   for the community. He was well respected.
   If this is what he wants, I hope he makes good, and doesn't suffer any
   injuries that'll nag for the rest of his life.

   Mike JN

    
    I saw that show, and it boggles the mind that a guy of that size,
    and in obvious great shape, is considered too old or too weak or
    too slow for the game.
    
    Does Maria Shriver have a thing for big guys with muscles or what?
    
    Dickster
    

    
    RE:481
    
    > Does Maria Shriver have a thing for big guys with muscles or what?
    
    That and bald women.....
    
    
    
    
    Carlos

>            <<< Note 44.482 by HOTSHT::SCHNEIDER "Thank you, Fay" >>>
>                         -< Lyle Alzado is a con man >-

You mean it didn't bring a lump to your throat when he talked about
how his father's lack of interest in him drove him to be what he is today?

You mean you didn't believe his "NO WAY!" to the steroids question?

You mean you thought he was serious about wishing he could thrash the cop?

If the NFL didn't exist, Lyle Alzado would be known only as "Prisoner #4545474"

    I don't recall Lyle's stats. I do believe that even in his prime 
    he was not considered big. Speed was good. It was intensity and
    drive that carried him.  The game has changed considerably since.
    He's probably going to end up badly injured if they go ahead with
    this plan. Walsh is on the money here. 
    
    BoB

    If he wants to come back, let him come back as a coach. The Raiders
    DL with, Long ,Townsend, Golic, Davis, Pickel, Wise and Smith is
    a solid group and there is not enough time for them to play as it
    is. They don't need any more bodies at DL.
    
                                     Kenn

    
    
    re .481

>    Does Maria Shriver have a thing for big guys with muscles or what?
 
    Probably. Monday, I saw her on the Arsenio Hall show, and Arsenio
    asked her the same question. Then Maria made a mistake - she answered
    honestly :
    
    Shriver's reply :  "Well, yes. Arnold was the smallest I had."
       
    Hmmmmm ........   :-)
    
    Needless to say, Arsenio just let that hang out there, and he and half the
    audience just about died before Maria realized what she had said.
    
    Too funny !  
   
    Doc 

    
    brings a whole new meaning to the world needledik [tm]
    

    Lyle is still well-liked in Denver.  He was a charismatic team leader
    on the '77 Superbowl Team.

    Lyle is still well-liked in Denver.  He was a charismatic team leader
    on the '77 Superbowl Team.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 oh you mean the team that almost made a game out of it with Morton at the
 helm? too bad they didn't have the "Duke" back then....

mike   

    re: -491
    
    There are a lot of jokes at the expense of the Broncos' inability to
    win a Superbowl.  As a Broncos fan, I can accept that.
    
    But there is nothing that can diminish the excitement we all felt when
    the Broncos "Cinderella" Team went to the '77 Superbowl.  So your
    remarks were inappropriate, in my opinion.

Thanks Steven and your shirt is in my closet waiting to be delievered...

Mr. or Mrs. Hite (hard to tell without you signing out) First off after you've
been in here a while you will realize that I take any and all oppurtunities
I can to knock the Broncos some of us feel it our duty to balance off the
craziness of Broncomania..

Secondly in my best Hoot and Monty caraciture the Broncos should have never
been to the bowl. It was painfully obvious that the camera missed Red Miller
paying off the refs on the oakland fumble near the goalline. A practice
which of course he partook in all year long as Denver got more calls that
year than Magic got airtime when he pulled his hammy in 88.....

;^) <-  this means I'm smiling having a good one...

mike

    Mike,
    
    Anyone with half a brain (which of course, excludes all donkey fans),
    knows that Lytle coughed the ball up and the raiders had and were
    rumbling down the field. Except the "Clemson" refs (orange, ya know)
    whistled the ball dead.  Perhaps the worst call in the history of
    the playoffs.  Raiders would have won game and whipped the Sowboys
    in the playoffs, and Tom Landry would rightfully be taking his
    ill-gotten genius label and sitting nexted to Reeves and Grant...
    
    JD

    
    re JD
    
       Seeing how Tom Landry happens to have won the third most games
    in league history has nothing to do with his genius label I suppose.
    Why can't you guys that got stomped on all those year's accept that
    the man knew the game better than most of all the other so called
    coaches put together. 20 straight years of Playoffs, and 5 NFC championships
    IMBO place the man in a class of only a few.
    
    Jerry Jones go eat Jimmy Johnson' shorts
    
    CADZILLA 

The *only* saving grace that Tom Landry has is the fact that
he once played for the Giants..... 8^) 8^) 8^)

Also, while Landry ranks up there, he couldn't even begin to think
about carrying Lombardi's jock.

Lombardi, IMHO, was the greatest coach the NFL has ever seen.  Not
only did he breed success on the football field, but most of his
players have turned into huge successes in their personal lives.
It was truly unfortunate that Lombardi was taken from us before
we had a chance to see the ultimate pinaccle of his abilities
achieved...

'Saw

    
    re Saw
    
    	What you may not remember is that Lombardi and Landry coached
    the Giants at the same time. Both left in 1960, and both went on the
    build winning programs. During the mid 60's both had turned those
    programs around and found great pleasure in playing one another 
    in the Championship series. The Ice Bowl is just one case of the
    two pitting two great teams against each other. I agree Lombardi
    died much to early to achieve his rightful place in NFL history.
    
    
    Cadzilla
    
    
    OBTW  that jock carrying non-sense does not go off any better than it
    did when Larry Holmes spit it out the first time.  

    
    The Raiders have sold less than 20,000 season tickets so far this
    year.  Even with a good walk-up crowd the Coliseum is going to look
    empty.  If the Raiders get off to a slow start, things will look very
    bad.  Looks like Al screwed himself by trying to work all these deals
    with different cities.
    
    Bruce

    re: .496
    
    Third? I thought Shula and Landry were see-sawing the lead a couple of
    years back. Did someone pass Landry? Chuck Noll maybe?
    
    
    John

re Cadzilla:

	Granted.  I have a lot of respect for Landry, but I liked
	Lombardi better...

re the Jock Carrying stuff:


	[Aside:  why oh why do I always have to explain everything to
	 the cherries?]

	The "carrying the jock" comment is a SPORTS tradition.  Just
	as is trademarking a neat expression.

	To debate people's relative greatness, and not have a least
	one jock carrying comment is, well, unSPORTSmanlike.

	Breathe deep the redolent aroma of OURGNG::SPORTS.  Learn
	the traditions.  Never questions them.  These my son are
	the commandments of SPORTS 8^)


later,
'Saw

    
    Stevie_boy,
    
    Easier Goer could easily handle the jock on Man o' War.  They all weigh
    within 5-10 pound of each other, and if one is especially light they
    just put extra weight in the saddle, anyway.  I mean., it not like
    you'd have to worry about Billy Shoemaker porking out and getting up to
    125 pounds or anything.
    
    Bruce  

    The answer to winning coaches will be posted tomorrow however, I
    believe Shula is now number 2 after George Halas and Landry is still
    number 3.  Landry was head coach of the Cowboys from 1960 - 1988 but
    the 'Boys didn't win a game during his first season, I believe they
    went 0-11-1.  Shula took over as coach of the Colts in 1963 when Weeb
    Ewbank went to the Jets.  Landry had been a head coach only two years
    longer than Shula and in one of those years went winless, so they've
    probably coached roughly an equal number of games.  It won't be Noll
    because he's been a head coach roughly 10 years less than the other two
    and Pittsburgh has had some awful seasons under him, too.
    
    John

    
    >	[Aside:  why oh why do I always have to explain everything to
    >	 the cherries?]
    
     
    We know the job is the pits, but it's also in your job description
    on page 6. [see Fruits; cherries, explanations].  It's right after
    the section on [Fungus; halugeonic, distribution].  RTFM, willya.
    
    It's also your job because you're so good at it.
    
    Dickster
    

Dickster....I've been properly chastised... but I'm still rolling...

    
    
    re: 'Saw
    
    
    	So as you say it's tradition.  You couldn't carry the jock of an
    Airborne Ranger.
    
    
    Cadzilla
    
    former Redstone Ranger 

    Dick -
    
    *Now* I know why I've had so much trouble with the Sprots Manual.
    
    It's in reverse alphabetical order :-) :-)
    
    A&W

re Airborne Rangers:

	Yeah, you're right.  But actually I wouldn't try.

	My family's tradition lies either in the Marine Corps (Semper
	Fi), or on the High Seas.

	Actually, if I ever had to go in (and I'm getting kind of old
	so it would have to be something pretty drastic to get them
	to call the old guys like me) I'd try my damndest to follow
	in my father's footsteps and get into subs...

	My uncle was the Leatherneck...

'Saw (Who's always ready even though he's getting older by the minute)

    Yo Cadz,
    
    I was defending the honour of the Raiders, and berating the Donks.
     A time-honored tradition in here.   And Landry was 2-3 in Super
    Bowls.  Lombardi was 2-0.
    
    JD

    
    That's right, A&W, I had a helluva time finding the SPROTS manual
    in the library, too. ;^)
    
    Dickster
    

    
    What a coincidence, 'Saw.  My old man was into subs, too. Had a
    little shop and he sold a lot of pizza's, too.  And my mother, the
    soprano, spent a lot of time on the high C's also.
    
    Dickster
    

    
    JD
    
        You can dump on them donks all you want. I'll be glad to get in
    line when it comes to bashin mr ed and them gawd awful donkey's. Even
    though Dan'l Reeves looks like my brother and caries my mothers ( I
    hope we're not related) family name.
    
      As far as the Raiders are concerned. I'll be glad when Al can find
    another George Blanda/Daryl Lamonica combo to run that bunch. The
    Silver and Black have been lacking a signal caller for some time now.
    Not since the Snake moved to the Earler's have they had a chance in the
    AFC west.
    
    	Bring back Big Ben ,the Mad Stork, Otis Sistrunk and Freddie
    "Sticky Hands" Billitnecough Sp.
    
    Cadzilla
     
    
    

      Didn't Plunkett take the faiders to the bowl & win it??  Grant it, he
    was no great, but he got the job done once in a blue one.
    
       The chargers will be better than the la/oakland/sacremento faiders
    this year.
    
    		Tim

    Alright Cadz,
    
    See HOOT and Monty, the two RAIDER fans who kept the Donks in check,
    took the buyout.  So, its up to fairminded, upstanding, outstanding,
    patriotic, good-looking souls like you, Mike Childs, and myself,
    to try and fill the rather large shoes of HOOT and the Parrot.
    
    We're just the guys to do it, too!
    
    Art Shell announced that Schroeder is the starting QB, since Buerlein
    is still holding out.   
    
    JD

Hey Cadz, you mention some great football names there.

The Snake...a lefty, and the name described him well.

Bilitnikof...they said he wasn't fast enough, but his quickness
and moves made him one of the all time leading receivers...

Blanda...every man over 40 felt like he was reborn in light of
the accomplishments of Blanda on Sunday afternoons...

Boy, do those names take me back....

And hey, wasn't Ben Davidson one of the scariest things you've
ever seen when he'd be all decked out in the black uniform....

Yowza!

'Saw

PS Dickster...we call them Grinders down here... does that mean your
   father worked in a machine shop?

    
    Sheesh...'Grinders'....Hoagies....Heroes.... gimme a summarine sanwich
    and a tonic for lunch any day.
    
    Dickster
    

    
    
    re:516
    
      Lets hope not, can't take another year of listing to how they got 
    blown out in the Stupid Bowl again. This whole state sits around
    and mope's for about three months after each of these contest's
    of the have's vs the have not's.  
    
      Of course mr ed is trying to learn the touch pass this year, probably
    get him touched for a few more Int's. 
    
    But I do have to admit it is  fun watching them  dump on the Clowns from
    clevescum.     Yap! Yap! Yap!
    
    Cadzilla                     
     

    
    	The Bro..er Donks winning the West this year?  What a joke. 
    Against Sheattle(tm) and the Dolts, they looked like they'll be the 
    same lucky bunch that they were last year.  They made no significant
    moves via draft, while the rest of the division, except the Shehawks,
    will catch up them.  Not that they have that far to go.
    
    	I'm not even worried about the Donkeys this year as far as the 
    AFC West is concerned.  The first game of the season will be in 
    Oakland.  Al just doesn't want to let the cat out of the bag.  The
    Donks will probably get beat up on the way inside the staduim, then
    get steamrolled on the field.  If you think Dennis Smith was burned
    by Jerry Rice, wait till you see what Brown and Gault will do to him.
    Like they used to say back in the '60s, speed kills.  The RAIDER D
    will hit Elway into the turf so hard, he'll end up in Tokyo again.
    
    	The real comp in the division will come from KC.  
    
    						 glen j.

    Re: -1
    
    Broncs are playing in Oakland this year?
    
    Mike

    
      Hey, Glen with all the talk about the Aid-ers moving are you sure
    Art will know which stadium to take his team. Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha...
    
    And Beat Goes on,etc.....................
    
    Drewski
    
    

    re: Mike H.
    
    Sept. 8   Donks @RAIDERS.
    
    	Trust me.  It will be at the Alameda-County Coliseum.  
    
    						 glen j.

    Offense in the AFC west is owned by DENVER. 
    Defense will be owned by S.D 
    
    The Bronco's will win the west
    San Diego 2nd
    Faiders 3rd they will lead the league in points scored.
    KC will finish 4th and lead the lead in a single back offense.
    Seattle will wish that they could play Dallas 4-5 times.
    
    Jeff

    The Raiders released Mike Haynes yesterday.
    

    For all you Raider fans, Fred Biletnikoff is their receivers coach.
    
    All time winning coaches:
    
    George Halas	325
    Don Shula		286
    Tom Landry		270
    Curly Lambeau	229  (Early Packer teams)
    Chuck Noll		193
    Paul Brown		170
    Bud Grant		168
    Chuck Knox		163
    Steve Owen		153 (Long time Giants coach)
    Hank Stram		136
    Weeb Ewbank		134
    Sid Gillman		123
    George Allen	118
    Don Coryell		114
    John Madden		112
    Buddy Parker	107 (coached Lions to 3 titles in fifties)
    Vince Lombardi	105
    Bill Walsh		102
    
    The only active coach with 90 wins is Joe Gibbs.  A decent season will
    put him over the 100 mark.  Reeves is in the low eighties and Mike
    Ditka has 79.
    
    Shula is 60 and if he coaches for 5-6 more years should pass Halas as
    the all-time leader.  Noll is 58.  He should get to 200 this year, has
    an excellent chance of catching Lambeau and has a very slim shot at
    catching Landry.  Knox will probably max out at about 200.  Shula fits
    the profile perfectly for being an all-time leader because he started
    when he was relatively young (33) and stepped into a great situation
    right away.  Noll started when he was 38 and had two dreadful years
    when he started out.  Landry became a head coach at 36 (he's 66 now)
    and also had a couple of bad years starting out.  George Halas owned
    the team and was Bears coach 3-4 different times.  I don't see any
    other active coach getting 200 wins, either.
    
    In terms of winning percentage, Lombardi is first with .740 and he only
    coached for 10 years.  Madden is second at .733, George Allen is 3rd
    with .681 and Shula and Halas are both in the mid-600s.  Noll and
    Landry are both roughly the same in the .580 range.
    
    John
    

    Some other notes:
    
    Shula, Noll and Walsh all worked for Paul Brown.  None of Lombardi's
    assistants or former players were ever notable successes as head
    coaches.
    
    Lombardi became a head coach at 45 which makes his success even more
    remarkable.  That must have been some Giants staff with him as
    offensive coordinator and Landry as defensive coordinator.  Lombardi
    was a true New Yorker because he played at Fordham, coached high school
    ball in Northern New Jersey and was an assistant at Army under Earl
    Blaik before joining the Giants.
    
    John

    re: .527
    
    Ok, I remember the see-saw battle was for the most wins of an "active"
    coach. Anyone think Shula will take the record in 4-5 years?
    
    
    I think so.
    
    John

RE Lombardi:

	I'd highly recommend reading Lombardi's "Run to Daylight".
	An amazing book about his coaching technique etc.

	Again, a tragic loss.  If he'd coached for a few more years
	he'd undoubtedly be much much closer to the top of that list.

'Saw

>>RE Lombardi:

Frank,

Somehow, I think we've been through this before, but FWIW Jerry Kramer also
edited a book about Lombardi published after his death called "Winning is
the Only Thing".

If you're into mushy old anecdotes as I am as well as a single source which
spans his entire career, this is a dandy.  Some of the stuff he pulled off
when he was younger was amazing!!

Here's one I recall:
Once when he was doubling as basketball coach at St. Cecilia or St. Mary's
the other team threw a zone at them.  Determined not to lose but at a loss as
to what to do, Vince had his two guards pass the ball back and forth for the 
WHOLE LAST TWO QUARTERS!  Final score 3-2 for you-know-who!

rick ellis

    � Once when he was doubling as basketball coach at St. Cecilia or St.
    � Mary's the other team threw a zone at them.  Determined not to lose but
    � at a loss as to what to do, Vince had his two guards pass the ball back
    � and forth for the  WHOLE LAST TWO QUARTERS!  Final score 3-2 for
    � you-know-who!
    
    Betcha Dean Smith was in the stands watching ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    
>    	The Bro..er Donks winning the West this year?  What a joke. 
>    Against Sheattle(tm) and the Dolts, they looked like they'll be the 
>    same lucky bunch that they were last year.  They made no significant
>    moves via draft, while the rest of the division, except the Shehawks,
>    will catch up them.  Not that they have that far to go.
>    
>    	I'm not even worried about the Donkeys this year as far as the 
>    AFC West is concerned.  The first game of the season will be in 
>    Oakland.  Al just doesn't want to let the cat out of the bag.  The
>    Donks will probably get beat up on the way inside the staduim, then
>    get steamrolled on the field.  If you think Dennis Smith was burned
>    by Jerry Rice, wait till you see what Brown and Gault will do to him.
>     

   It's obvious a few points need to be made here:

--Denver's offense has been using the ball control offense with great efficiency
  in their first 2 games, and it will only get better.  Bobby Humphrey has been 
  having an excellent camp and promises to be better than last year.  Denver has
  an excellent group of receivers, and don't forget about Mr. 3rd down, Steve
  Sewell.

--With Fletcher and Mecklenberg as outside 'backers, opposing QB's (Schroeder
  in particular) will be running for their lives.  Fletcher is one of the 
  league's most under-rated linebackers.  They have one of the best safety 
  tandems in the league in Smith & Atwater, and if either goes down, 
  Montgomery is ready to step in and start.

--Brown and Gault shouldn't scare anyone.  Gault may beat you deep, but he 
  doesn't have the hands.  Brown has been over-rated since his days at Notre
  Shame.  Marcus has definitely lost a step, and Bo was doggin' it for the last
  couple of games last year.  Will it be the incumbent Schroeder, incumbent
  Buerlein, or incumbent Evans at QB?

--Faider fans and everyone else can joke all day about the Broncos' Super 
  Bowl blowouts, but the fact of the matter is Denver is one of the league's
  most solid teams and among the favorites to win the AFC title...again.  This
  team was not beaten soundly until the Super Bowl last year, and that blowout
  only gave Denver more incentive for this year.  Everyone expects them to
  bury their heads in the sand, but it's just not going to happen. Sorry guys.

Doesn't matter if it's Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, Irwindale, or anywhere
else, the Raiders will get their clocks cleaned on opening day.

Can't wait for September 9th!!


Joe

    >Faider fans and everyone else can joke all day about the DONKS' Super
    >BLOWOUTS,but the fact of the matter is Denver is one of the league's
    >most solid teams and among the favorites to win the AFC title...again.
    >This team was not beaten soundly until the Super Bowl last year, and
    >that BLOWOUT only gave Denver more incentive or this year. Everyone 
    >expects them to bury their heads in the sand, but it's just not going
    >to happen.Sorry guys .
    
    >Doesn't matter if it's Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, Irwindale, or
    >anywhere else, the Raiders will get their clocks cleaned on opening
    >day.
    
    The fact remains that the DONKS did get blown out of the Super Bowl
    AGAIN!!! But take heart DONK FANS, even the RAIDERS lost their first 
    Super Bowl before winning their next three SUPER BOWLS!!! As far as
    being solid, well JELLO is considered a solid,(see JOHN ELWAY for true
    meaning of JELLO). The DONKS should actually bury their heads in the 
    sand after last years Super Bowl. So be it Los Angeles, Oakland,
    Sacramento, Irwindale, or any SANDLOT FIELD OR ALLEY, the Donks are
    going to find out THAT REAL FOOTBALL PLAYERS WEAR SILVER AND BLACK!!!
    
    The beginning of the end for the DONKS and their fans- September 9th!!! 

    I agree with you about Gault having no hands, BUT Tim Brown is
    over-rated?? I really don't think so. In his rookie year he was
    by far the best KR in football! As for his receiving abilities he
    caught just about everything that has been thrown to him. If you
    want to talk about over-rated look no further than your own team
    and find the name RICKEY NATIEL. He always gets the press clippings
    saying how great he's gonna be and then he turns in yet another
    stiff performance.
    
    I'm not gonna rip the Broncos just becuase I don't like them. I
    also feel that Fletcher, Mecklenberg, Atwater, Humphries and Elway
    are great players, however I don't feel that Denver has a superior
    team compared to the Raiders.
    
    McDaniel & Washington make a very good corner tandem. Aaron Wallace
    looks like he's gonna step right in at OLB. Their DL is great.
    Wisnewski anchors an OL that is improving, and Bell, Marcus, Smith
    and Bo make the best back field in football next to Houston.
    
                                        Kenn
                     

    Kenn,
    
    You have to understand that Joe is a Miami disco-dancer/prancer
    I don't go to classes Hurrican fan, so automatically anyone who
    went to Notre Dame is overrated.  ND has had its share of overrated
    players, just as Miami has.  Talent is talent, and it makes no
    difference where it came from, ND, Miami, OSU, Long Beach state.
    Tim Brown is a talent.  
    
    The Donks have  the most overrated players in football, now that
    's a fack.  It starts with Elway and goes through Hecklerburger,
    Humphries, the 3 amigas and their coach.
    
    SMASH THE PUMPKIN (tm)
    JD

    Which Brown (Ron or Tim) is going to be returning kicks for the Raiders
    this year?
    
    I'll agree 100% with whoever it was that said Steve Smith is an
    underrated back...in last year's game vs. the Patriots, New England
    didn't do a bad job of containing Bo but Smith had a field day.
    
    
    py 

    1990 final standings AFC West standings.
    
    Denver     11-5
    KC          9-7
    LA          8-8
    SD          8-8
    Seattle     7-9
    
    Raiders may end up in 4th if San Diego can trun it around this year.
    
    BoB

    Tim Brown will never return another kick for the Raiders again after
    last year. Although Ron Brown seems like the logical choice, the
    Raiders have been using Stefon Adams and Jamie Holland in the
    pre-season.I really don't think Ron Brown has a chance to make the
    team as a DB so he better volunteer to return kicks.
    
    Isn't it too bad that such Raider greats like Haynes, Hayes &
    Christensen Had to be cut instead of leaving football willingly.
    However we can thank Shanahan for cutting Millen.
    
                          Kenn

    
    RE: .539
    
>    1990 final standings AFC West standings.
>    
>    Denver    11-5 
>    KC         9-7
>    LA         8-8
>    SD         8-8
>    Seattle    7-9
    
    Sorry Charlie, but I'm afraid theres a flaw in your system.
    It was more like this:
    
      Denver    11-5
      KC         8-7-1
      LA         8-8
      Seattle    7-9
      SD         6-10
    
                      
    Carlos
    
    
    
    

    I think that was a prediction for this year.
    
    Joe

   
 <   Sorry Charlie, but I'm afraid theres a flaw in your system.
 <   It was more like this:
 <   
 <     Denver    11-5
 <     KC         8-7-1
 <     LA         8-8
 <     Seattle    7-9
 <     SD         6-10
 <   
 <                     
 <   Carlos
    
Just another typical Raider Fan Living on his teams past glory (8-8) 

Jeff

    
    Woops, sorry BoB, didn't realize .539 was a prediction for this
    year. I thought you were showing last years standings and saying
    if SD could turn it around the Raiders might end up in 4th.
    
    re: Jeff
    > Just another typical Raider Fan living on his teams past glory
    > (8-8) 
    
    Just another typical Donk crybaby, whose team unlike the: Raiders,
    Bears, 49'ers, Steelers, Cowboys, etc...etc....have no past glory
    (or much of a future for that matter) to live upon. (55-10)
    
    Carlos
                                                
    

    The Raiders are a strange organization indeed.  Seems anytime that
    people sit and talk about great teams present and past, you hear
    about the Packers, the Steelers and 49'ers.  If the Raider's name
    comes up at all, it is basically a footnote type of comment.
    
    A while back the big hype from the fans was "The Raiders are the
    winningest team in pro sports." They tried to play that aspect
    into some type of greatness at least in their own minds. 
    As it turns out  the Raiders have been mired in mediocrity for quite
    some time now and even they no longer take comfort from blurting
    that type of stuff.  
    
    On the bright side though, with the added wild-card slots, they have 
    a shot at making the playoffs. Wouldn't that be nice for a change?
    Super Bowl performances aside, there is still little doubt who the 
    dominant team is in the AFC West.  
    
    BoB

    hay dudes im a raider fan and i think it will look like this
    LA RAIDERS     12-4
    DENVER         10-6
    KC CHIEFS       8-8
    SEATTLE         7-9
    SAN DIAGO       6-10
    
    WE'LL I CAN DREAM CAN'T I!
     BUT IT WILL BE BETWEEN K.C CHIEFS AND THE RAIDERS 
                                               COUNT ON IT!
    

    Ralph _who_?!?

    The Raiders are a very different organization to understand because the
    jobs titles for their front-office personnel are very different from
    those around the league.  Instead of Public Relations people, Business
    Managers, College Personnel folks and so on, they call their people
    "Senior Executive" and "Senior Administrator", which makes it difficult
    for someone from the outside to figure out who's responsible for what. 
    They also tend to have a smaller front office than most other teams in
    the league.
    
    They are also the team that lists more lawyers in the organization
    than any other team.
    
    John

    
    The Raiders barely won the Cowboys (16-14)this weekend. Strange
    how they can play so well against the best and so poorly against
    the worst. The Raiders go against the Bears Friday night at 8:00
    P.M. E.S.T., NBC will be telecasting the game. 
    
    re: .545
    Take of them orange and blue sun glasses, and face reality bOb.
    The Raiders winning history testifies to their greatness, whether
    you choose to see it or not!
    
    Carlos

      Carlos,  How long you been a faider fan???

    
     Tim, since '76, I was 12 years old then, and thats around the time
    I became interested in football, girls, and other manly type stuff.
    
    Carlos

    
       The Raiders might be moving back to Oakland in time for the 
    start of the NFL season, according to a broadcast report.
       ESPN, citing unidentified sources, reported Sunday night that
    Raiders owner Al Davis is scrambling to work out final details,
    including a buyout of the team's lease at the Los Angeles Coliseum.
       ESPN also reported that the NFL has been prepared for months
    for a quick switch back to Oakland.
       Davis could not be reached for comment by The Associated Press.
       In other news, the Raiders signed defensive end Greg Townsend.
    
    Carlos

    re .552
    
    Anyone notice the Raiders shirts & hats, etc?  The stuff they're
    selling this year have no city mentioned...just says the Raiders.
    
    This ESPN report is partially based on the fact that Dan's favorite
    band--New Kids-- has cancelled a concerted scheduled for the same day
    as a Raiders home game.  I don't know how much truth is in this.
    
    Bruce

    This rumour has been around for at least a year. Would they move
    immediately? What about the people who have already paid for tickets in
    LA? If they are moving next year, I don't think the LA fans would be
    happy about supporting a team in it's lame duck year.
    
    Besides, I thought that the Oaklland deal fell through, since those
    idiots on the city council wanted to waste money on stupid thgings like
    schools and trash collection instead of wisely investing it by handing
    it over to Al Davis.
    
    Tom

    It did Tom, but apparantly, Al realized that sanity again reigned over
    the city, so he and the city of Oakland worked out a much more
    realistic package that could bring the Raiders back, without
    bankrupting the city.
    
    DOc 

    I am going for a visit to Los Angeles tomorrow. I hope to find out how
    the people of L.A feel about the RAIDERS and the latest rumors.
    Unfortunately the RAIDERS are going to be playing in Chicago this
    weekend, and the RAIDERS have closed practices so I will not be able to
    see them while I am there. But when i return in 9 days I will update
    this file about what the press and the newspapers in L.A. think about
    all this.
    
    
    
    

    The Raiders are trying to trade Van McElroy, who is holding out. There
    are three teams that are interested, the Seahawks showing the most
    interest. It is believed that the Raiders want a 2nd round pick
    for him. 
    
                                        Kenn

      A 2nd rounder??  He's a good hitter, but his coverage is lacking IMO.
    
    		Tim

    
    McElroy missed most of last year with a hamstring injury, but Eddie
    Anderson proved to be an excellent replacement with a team high
    five interceptions, including two for touchdowns. Anderson runs
    well, can accelerate to the ball and arrives with a bang. The Raiders
    will do well to get a second round for McElroy, and who ever gets
    McElroy will do well too, as Vann is more than just a good hitter.
    He is excellent at keying run and pass, and is aggressive in run
    support. He also has quickness in coverage and gets a good jump
    on the airborne football.
    
    Carlos

    
    
    
       Well troops it Raider Football tonite against the Chicago Bears.
    Their's been a lot of rumors lately about our Club moving back to
    Oakland.  I hope Greg Townsend plays.....Even though it's preseason
    i'm looking forward for the game.  I'm a Mike Dikita (sp) Fan too.
    I like his style....

    Steven, it's on NBC   ~/~
    
    
    Glenn

    
    Steven, the game will be played in Chicago, and as Glenn pointed
    out, NBC will be telecasting it at 8:00 EST. If the Raiders can
    contain Anderson, get their own running game going, and Shroeder 
    executes well...then the Raiders should win. Also, the Bears have 
    scored 40 points and allowed 15 in their pre-season games, which 
    is still pretty good.
    
    Carlos

   DONKS ROOL!!!

   Brain damaged Faider fans face another year of having nothing to bray
   about except their FORMER greatness, and their envy of the CONTINUING
   success of the Denver Broncos.

   Faiders and Semenhawks will battle it out for the bottom slot in the
   AFC West.

   Kansas has a legitimate chance to challenge the Broncos.

   Chargers in third place.

   You heard it hear first!
   Mike JN

   PS - PUMPKINS IN YO FACE, DEWDS!!!

    Kansas City has a great running game, and a solid defense but their
    QB's SU*K. I really can't see them putting up a lot of points this
    year. I still think that if Tolliver plays well S.D. will be tough
    this year. What a mistake they made letting Gary Anderson get away.
    
    Kenn

    
    >Kansas City has a great running game,
    
    Only if Okoye stays healthy, otherwise they're nothing special.
    
    >and a solid defense
    
    agreed
    
    >but their QB's SU*K.
    
    so do their receivers.
    
    As far as S.D. is concerned, I think they have a realistic chance
    of making the playoffs especially with that parity junk. Matter
    of fact, I think all of the AFC West with the exception of Seattle,
    will be fighting 'til the last week to get into the playoffs. Don't
    expect Denver to have it in the bag this year.
    
    Carlos

    San Diego with the signing of Junior Seau has the (IMO) best front
    seven in that divison.  
    
    
    
    Bears will win tonight!
    

    I caught some of friday night's action. Alzado looked surprisingly
    ok, and ok is far better than I felt he would do. Ahmad Rashad has
    got to be the worst.  I blew my beans and weinies on about the 
    umpteenth mentioning of 'this is only a pre-season game' or 
    was it the 583rd mention of 'Raider tradition', or maybe it was
    'you really have to make that catch' repeated over and over and
    over and........... Hey Ahmad! Get a real job! Soemthing your good
    at would be nice. PHewwwww.
    
    BoB    

    Once again the defense looked superb. Aaron Wallace really looks
    like he is gonna be a force (3 sacks against the Bears). With the
    return of Greg Townsend and the play of Wallace the Raiders should
    have a dominating pass rush. One thing that I found to be weird
    is that Bill Pickel is playing DE and Howie Long is playing DT.
    
    Schroeder looked horrible again. However there is no excuse for
    the ball that Gault dropped. With the return of Steve Smith, no
    matter who the Raiders pair up with him in the backfield, they 
    should have a solid backfield. The OL is playing great altough the
    loss of Bruce Wilkerson will hurt. 
    
    Anybody have any info. on what's going on with Terry McDaniel. Gary
    Lewis has been a pleasent surprise in his place. It should be difficult
    to cut some of the young players that they have today.
    
                                                 Kenn
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Lyle Alzado retired yesterday. This came about when the Raiders
    told him that he was not gonna make the team. For anyone that is
    interested, there is a column on the Raiders in the USA Today.
    
                                        Kenn

   I didn't see the article, but I did hear Alzado say that he felt he
   could still perform, and produce at the NFL level for at least 3 or 4
   more years. (I saw him in the Bears game.. thought he looked good).

   He said that Al Davis agreed with that assessment, but felt that the
   Raider Organization would be better served by grooming someone younger.

   ( Ya think that's true? Uncle Al never strick me as particularly
   subtle, or concerned with anyone's feelings; but I gotta think that if
   Lyle was cuttin it, Al'd be the first to play him. )

   Mike JN

 Who scored the other td for the raiders last week. I know Butterfingers
 redeem himself and caught one, who got the other?

 Steve and JN, Glenn has your shirts...

mike

    Steve Smith had a 5 yard run in the 2nd half. Fernandez only had
    a couple of receptions (I believe 3) for minimal yardage, (under
    20 yards). 
    
                                   Kenn

    Damn! I was hoping they would keep Alzado so that he would fill
    the spot of someone more capable and qualified. Also we could 
    watch him sit on his helmet and remember those good 'ol 
    Raider traditions. 
    
    BoB

      Retired??  The local media had him down as being cut.  It don't
    matter, 'cause he is better off not playing and getting hurt, hell the
    guy is a dinasour ;^^.   Don't act either Lyle, stick with your ESPN
    show or broadcasting which anybody can do.
    
    		Tim

Well, actually, I was kind of hoping that Lyle would make good.

He was kind of an inspiration for us old guys trying out new sports.

I thought he looked pretty good against the Bears, but I guess not...

Oh well...

'Saw

    By the way, does anyone know where the Raiders are playing this
    season. Or maybe better asked, does anybody care?  
    
    Ops! There I go again. I promised myself I would try to be more
    understanding and a kinder more gentler anti-Raider type. It's
    hard to raise that knee jerk reaction from the 'new' Raider
    faithful.  I'll try to work on that.
    
    BoB

    Anthony Smith, the Raiders #1 pick this year, is out for the season.
    An OL fell on his knee during practice and it will require surgeory.
    It's too bad because Smith Looked to be quite a pass rusher.
    
                                            Kenn

    
    To bad about Smitty, he'll be missed this year, although I really
    have'nt heard as much about his impact on the team, as I have about
    Wallace. That must've hurt.....considering that all the starting
    OL weigh in at 275lbs. or better. 
    
    Carlos

    The Raiders finished out the Preseason on a storng note beating
    San Diego 34-7. Schroeder had decent #'s, although I did not see
    the game. Napoleon McCallum must have made the team with his
    performance, 14 carries for 80+ yards. Greg Bell had a 27 yard TD
    run as well. The defense played well again limiting S.D. to approx.
    17 min. in possesion time. The offensive line only allowed 1 sack.
    
    In transaction made this weekend, Steve Beuerlein was signed to
    a 1 year $400k contract. OL john Gesek was traded to Dallas for
    an undisclosed draft choice. Players cut were; QB's-Vince Evans
    & Jeff Francis, LB's-Rickey Hunley, Darin Jordan & Ron Burton, FB
    Kerry Porter, TE Trey Junkin, Special Teams Captain Stefon Adams,
    OL Bruce Davis, And DB's Elvis Patterson & Derrick Crudup.
    
    IT's too bad about Porter, he looked good. However with the logjam
    the Raiders have at RB ther was noway he would make the team.
    
                                      Kenn

      Beurlien signed for 400k??  Wasn't he asking for a million?

    Beuerlein did sign for $400k. He was asking for more than a million,
    then he lowered his demand, to $1million for 1 year, the same as
    Schroeder got. However as has been the case this year, all of Ralph
    Cindrichs' clients have over priced their value!
    
                                          Kenn

      Does Cindrich handle Ron Holmes as well?? 

    The first game of the season ought to be a dandy, 
    and Jay Schroeder is gonna melt the Bronc defense like candy.
    
    The Raiders defense is looking bold,
    and that ain't good news 'cause John Elway is getting old. 
    
    Dan Reeves is a sleaze,
    and him, will Art Shell appease.
    
    
    Carlos  
    

    Raiders dudes lets hope for a totally flowless season
    man we need this year to show that we are still here 
    The Silver and Black are back!!!
    The Raiders Team of all decades!!!!!!!!!
                                     Thats a fact jack!!!!!
                                           *********point of no return*****
    
    
                                                    

    Da Pa-Raiders are a team dat sips thru a straw
    Their ineptitude leaves all true fans in awe.
    but pa_Raider faithful see thru black colored glasses
    As their hapless team gets kicked on their Assas.
    
    Da faithful always talk of a notable past feat
    'tho now their a team dat even Denver cain beat.
    NOw they signed a big bum named Jay.
    IMO the Raides have truly faided away. 
    
    Den 28 Pa-Raiders 10

    The Raiders should have a good season.  I will say that their offense
    will sputter all year, but that it will improve as the season goes
    along.  The defense will be better than average, which will result
    in a wild card spot, but an early exit.
    
    I'd LOVE to see them will it all, but I don't even see them winning
    the division.
    
    The Wizard

    
    re. .587 
          The form of your prose is truly beautiful and inspiring
          but the context, I am afraid to say, is totally unacceptable.
    
      
    In other Raider news Mike Alexander, WR, and Bruce Wilkerson, OT,
    were placed on injured reserve, and Vince Evans, QB, and Elvis "Toast"
    Patterson, CB, were recalled from waivers.
    
    Carlos

      Toast recalled??  How dumb can Shell be?

    Donks by a dozen.
    
    BoB

    I like the Raiders by 3. The games are always close. The Raider
    defense is playing great and their running game looks good. It will
    be nice to see the Bronc's starting out 0-1.
    
                               Kenn

    
    The Raiders placed Dennis Price, cornerback, on IR and recalled
    Ron Burton, linebacker off waivers.
    
    Carlos

    THE RAIDERS 24
    THE DONKS    7
    
    Start of a great year for the Raiders, and the start of a long,long
    year for the vastly overrated donks. 

    I'll agree with whoever said Raiders by a FG, only because the game is
    at the Coliseum.
    
    
    py

    
    RAIDERS   27
    Donks     23
    
    	As per usual with these teams, there shall be lots of fights, 
    flags from the zebras, and all sorts of other shenanigans.
    
    	RAIDER/Den. games usually do not result in blowouts, and this
    should be no exception.  It's also extra special since they're meeting
    in the first game of the season.  The last time that occurred, in 1986,
    Denver, with the help of the Pile-It-High refs :-), eeked out with a 
    38-36 win.  
    
    	Just sit back and enjoy.
    
    						 glen j. 

    Just read that the Coluseium is willing to drop a 58 million dollar
    breach of contract lawsuit against the Raiders if they stay in L.A..
    
    Carlos

    
    Even without a defensive line the Broncos will beat the Raiders.
    something like this::
    
    Bronkoids  23   3 field goals and 2 touchdowns
    
    Raiders    16   3 field goals and 1 touchdown
    
    
    Should be a good game.....More important for the Raiders to win
    to establish they can play with the Champions......
    
     
    Drewski
    
    

    ok denver fans send me mail on this one, raiders by at least 10..
    
    dinz
    

    DInz just gave the Donks a victory!!!
    
    REK

    
    >Should be a good game...More important for the Raiders to win to
    >establish that they can play with champions.
    
    That's already been established, last Dec. 3rd, L.A.-16 Donks-13.
    Besides I can't consider anybody who got creamed 55-10 in the S.B.
    a 'champion'. This game should be equally important for both teams, 
    if they have the goal of winning the division title and making the 
    play-offs this year. 
    
    Carlos

    They'll be lucky to score 10, let alone win by 10. Sounds like
    happy hour hit a little early for the Dinz today.
    
    BoB