Conference 7.286::classified_ads

> THE FIRST 3 LINES of all ads WILL include the AUTHORS Name, VMSNode (not 
> UNIX node, .....

	I think Skip really didn't mean "VMSNode", but meant DECnet
	mail address (ie. of the form node::username).  Skip may be
	surprised to know that this note is being written by a NOTES
	client running on a UNIX node, and that the author field of
	this node (VAXCPU::michaud) is a valid DECnet mail address,
	even though the node is UNIX.

    Well, it's still a problem as many groups are moving away from the
    DECnet node mail address nomenclature to Exchange (witness some
    of the more recent postings).  Skip's group apparently hasn't
    yet.  I guess I don't understand the big deal about having a DEcnet
    style address to contribute to ::CLASSIFIED.
    K

Well, usenet news groups classifieds are pretty easy to participate
in, and alot less rules.  I have to admit it's a little frustrating
to try and post something here and have it disappear because
you forgot to enter a piece of info...

Hey, I don't mind rules, but this conference seems to have a few
too many.

    What about those of us who reside @OGO.  Stowoa is going away on
    Friday, February 14th (happy valentines day), what do we use as an
    address, if not our Exchange address, when posting an article for sale?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pat

    I'll tell you what's frustrating.  Trying to buy something from a 
    Usenet newsgroup and
      a) They don't list where they are located
      b) They don't list a name and nobody at the phone number knows
         what you're talking about.
      c) They don't leave a valid email address and the message header
         holds an invalid address.

    All of these things have happened to me.  In my experience, having
    all the required information is very helpful and makes the whole
    process much smoother.  If you read the directions before posting a
    note, it's not hard.  I think the jury is still out on how to solve
    the address now that people are moving to inferior mail systems. ;-)
    But I'm very happy that the other rules are enforced.

    Cheers,
    --Dave

    
    
    	The rules in here were created over the years due to complaints
    from the users. As Dave says, posting a note is not rocket science. I'm
    sure we can work something out about the email addresses.
    
    	jim (mod)

>    What about those of us who reside @OGO.  Stowoa is going away on
>    Friday, February 14th (happy valentines day), what do we use as an
>    address, if not our Exchange address, when posting an article for sale?


you start using the Internet classified ad forums.  There are hundreds to 
choose from.

>    Well, it's still a problem as many groups are moving away from the
>    DECnet node mail address nomenclature to Exchange (witness some
>    of the more recent postings).  Skip's group apparently hasn't
>    yet.  I guess I don't understand the big deal about having a DEcnet

and, guess what, we're not moving.  Nobody's come up with a way to manage 
the huge databases we use so we're the last bastion of VMS users and will 
be for the foreseeable future.

From what I gather from reading 2.21-2.23, the problem with using non-DECnet
addresses is that they're sometimes wrong or unreachable.  It's quite possible
to list an erroneous or unreachable DECnet address.  Why not just make the
rule "if the address is unreachable, the note will be deleted?"  

>to list an erroneous or unreachable DECnet address.  Why not just make the
>rule "if the address is unreachable, the note will be deleted?"  


Because I'm sick and tired of gettingh mail "Why was my note deleted?"

    Why would the moderator care of the person with the item for sale
    was reachable or not?  If I enter a note with a bogus return address
    then I won't sell what I want to sell!  Its just like putting a
    classified ad in the local paper without giving a telephone number.
    You just wasted your money.  The moderators don't need to be big
    brother.
    
    				-John

-1 Out of courtesy for the person who may be looking
   for such an item?

   Chip

    Then there is always the option of well I could not reach them by
    mail so I will pick up the phone and call.
    
    Phone numbers are required.... 
    
    
    Don
    
    

    RE: .12
    
    Well, the "courtesy" of not letting me purchase items from people
    who don't have DECnet mail addresses is not welcome by me.
    
    				-John
    

    If no one cares to fix this, it will be a self-correcting problem, once
    there are too few people accessing this conference to make it viable.
    
    Tony
    

>  If no one cares to fix this, it will be a self-correcting problem, once
>    there are too few people accessing this conference to make it viable.
 
What a shame.

The way I see it two things need to happen:

1. People shouldn't hassel the mods if they can't reach someone who advertised. 
   I am amazed to think that people do hassel the mods over this.  If you 
   can't reach the person, what the heck is the moderator to do?

2. The mods need to lighten up and allow internet addresses.  The reason i 
   hear that they won't is because people complain that they can't reach
   the advertisers.  Well if 1 would happen, seems like 2 goes away.

At the least we should be given a reasonable explanation as to why the rule
won't be changed.  And hopefully the reason is more than because we said so. 
 

    Are you telling me that people on Exchange mail can't place ads in here
    anymore??  By the end of the year all of Digital will be on Exchange
    (so I was told!).

    Correct.  The current rules by the moderators is that you MUST have
    a VMSmail address listed in the 1st three lines (along with your
    name and phone number).  If you don't have those 3, you notes
    gets trahsed.
    
    As for "everybody" being on Exchange before the end of the year,
    don't believe everything you are told...
    
    				-John
    
    

    re .17, .18
    Yes, it appears to be nothing more than an ego problem with Skip,
    but he makes the rules, so the next step is to go to Human Resources
    and try and get them to work the issue with him.
    Kratz

re: .19

Don't be absurd.  If you don't (or anyone else doesn't) like the way this 
conference is being run, offer to run it yourself (or set up your own). 
He's entitled to virtually any rules he wants, to make his life easier, or
for any other reason. 

Your approach is the quickest way possible to get this conference shut 
down.

Ray

> Correct.  The current rules by the moderators is that you MUST have
> a VMSmail address listed .....

	of course:

		USRMC1::"[email protected]"

	is a valid VMSmail address that VMSmail users can use (non-VMS
	users are usually smart enough to strip the USRMC:: and the
	double quotes and use that).

	I think the problem Skip is trying to solve are ads that
	only list their email address as:

		[email protected]

	and there are enough VMSmail users out there that don't know
	how to convert that to something VMSmail will accept (ie.
	either the above, or if the users node has UCX, they
	can also use smtp%"[email protected]" to send it
	on a more direct route), and hence the problem Skip is seeing.

	What I would really wish in some new rules is to require ads
	to contain the city and state where the item(s) is/are
	located or can be seen/picked up, and an asking price.  This
	can save both the poster of the ad, and those that respond,
	measurable time (and usually on Digital's clock).

	Most people who don't put an asking price do so so they can
	get more responses, but in reality once the responders find
	out the price offline, you're going to end up with the same
	number of interested parties willing to pay that price.

> He's entitled to virtually any rules he wants, to make his life easier, or
> for any other reason. 

	Well not quite virtually.  See the PP&P for more info (the
	relevant sections may even be posted in the rules topic
	of this conference).

>	of course:
>
>		USRMC1::"[email protected]"
>
>	is a valid VMSmail address that VMSmail users can use (non-VMS
>	users are usually smart enough to strip the USRMC:: and the
>	double quotes and use that).


WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Node::username  *NOT* router::address

as for what happens when everyone's on Exchange?  This conference gets shut 
down.

>>	of course:
>>		USRMC1::"[email protected]"
>>	is a valid VMSmail address that VMSmail users can use (non-VMS
>>	users are usually smart enough to strip the USRMC:: and the
>>	double quotes and use that).
> WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	You really have gone off the deep end with this rule then...
	Ie. what's wrong with the above?

	Does that also mean I can't use VAXCPU::michaud because your
	rule states it must refer to a VMS node?

	Why not just give moderation of this conference up for adoption
	if you no longer enjoy moderating it?

	And to think I was defending what I thought the rule said, gee wiz

>as for what happens when everyone's on Exchange?  This conference gets shut 
>down.

Skip, the unfortunate thing is, its not going to get to the point where 
everyone is on Exchange.  So what is going to happen is a real decent 
conference is going to be extremely underutilized, which will then kill it.
And as far as I can see there is no good reason for it.

Please, tell us why?