Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    Nancy Kerrigan was attacked after a practice session at the US Figure
    Skating Championships. She may or may not skate tomorrow afternoon.
    Apparently she can appeal to the USOC for a spot on the olympic team
    even if she does not compete this weekend.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    "Good" and bad news regarding this-
    
    "Good" is that she apparently didn't sustain any career-threating
    injury.
    
    Bad is thinking of all the time and effort she's put into preparing for
    this, the most important skating event in her young life.
    
    I remember when my daughter was hurt early in her senior year, and it
    wiped out the remaining season for her.  This was the year she wanted
    to shine for the scouts and college coaches.  While here injury was
    freaky, it did happen in the heat of a game.  Kerrigan, on the other
    hand, was viciously attacked and the only possible connection I can
    think of at this time is that it was an attempt to keep her from making
    the team so that some other skater would make it.  Kinda like the Seles
    attack.  What a damn shame.
    
    Lee
    

    and the guy wasn't even caught. Apparently he ran thru the security
    guards and spectators and no one stopped him. What a real shame...
    
                            stig

    	The last two attacks on athletes at a sporting event have happened
    at a tennis match and a figure skating practice, both sports that
    supposedly have sophisticated fans.
    
    				/Don

	/Don, my guess is it's because they don't have Foxboro-Stadium-
	Neandrathals working those events.  Well, at least not yet.


	billl

    Detriot: it's no place for... never mind...
    
    Seles was attacked by a Graf fan.
    Think this guy was into Katerina Witt?
    

The Seles thing reflected the passion with which many Europeans follow their
sporting heros.  I suspect the Kerrigan thing will be the same.  

The interesting thang here is the way the scenario will play out:

	If she doesn't compete, she can appeal to the US Olympic Comittee
	for a spot on the team, based upon the fact that she is deserving,
	and that she was injured during the chapeenships.  If on the other 
	hand, she toughs it out and goes out and competes while injured, 
	she is totally on he rown to make the team.  

	What would you do?

=Bob=

    I thought there was a rule for her to appeal she had to have earned a 
    medal in the last championships (which she didn't do) or some other
    criteria she didn't meet.  That was last I heard.
    

    She is going to try and skate today.

    Yabbut,
    The swelling has spread to the back of her knee which is not good
    according to some doc I heard on the radio. The docs might not let
    her perform. I hope the USOC puts her on the team in any event.
    What a tragedy. They oughtta let Nancy skate on this guy's face
    fer punishment if they catch up with it
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW, the first thang she should due is git her lawyer to take
    a nice look at security in Cobo. Ridiculous.
    

>   <<< Note 155.6 by GWEN::ASHE "Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs" >>>
>

>    Think this guy was into Katerina Witt?
    
    Won't touch this one.

	Kevin

    We have a crazy running around..."The Boston Basher"...
    
              stig

    
    
    >>The Seles thing reflected the passion with which many Europeans
    >>follow their sporting heros.  I suspect the Kerrigan thing will be
    >>the same.
    
    
       Sheeeeeit, I sure hope Sammy Leilei doesn't get trampled by 
    a water buffalo!
    
    
      

    WCVB just reported that Kerrigna will not compete in the US
    Championships.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Nancy Kerrigan's doctors have said that she cannot bend her knee and
    that they have drained her knee of fluid. They are fearful that any
    activity will cause furthere damage. She will undergo an MRI to
    determine if any cartilage damage resulted from the attack.
    
    This is a medical decision which puts the Olympic Selection Committee
    on the spot. On the one hand they could put her on the team but the
    injury may affect her skating talent to the point that she may not
    be a world class figure skater any more.
    
    I think it was the best decision that could be made amidst the
    circumstances.
    
    Let's hope she fully recovers...otherwise we'll see some nasty
    repercussions.
    
    M
    
    

    
    >>What a tragedy. They oughtta let Nancy skate on this guy's face
    >>fer punishment if they catch up with it
    
    OR, let her do the Mrs. Bobbitt thang to him with a skate while she's
    wearing it.
    
    JaKe

    I seem to recall that for the 1992 Winter Olympics once of the figure
    skating spots was given to someone who could not compete in the US
    Championships because of injury. I believe it was one of the 3 spots
    for the Men's single.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    That was the kid from the Cape.  Can't remember his name.  Because the
    US did so poorly in last year's world championships, only 2 skaters for
    the men and women will be allowed in this year's Olympics, if it hasn't
    been stated already.
    
    					Steve

	This will be a tough call for the US Olympic committee. I believe
the rule is, if you won a medal the the previous World Championship.
You can be granted a spot if you can not compete in the Qualifying do
to injury. Does anybody know what Nancy did in the Worlds? I seem to
remember 4th. In the '92 Olympics she won a bronze medal.

Ron

5th place in the worlds...tough break...It sounds like he whanged her with a
tire iron or a pipe from our news reports...

Metz

    The US Skating Federation has a rule in its by-laws that it can
    consider for selection skaters who did not compete in the national
    chamiponships. 
    
    Todd Eldredge got the 3rd spot for the 1992 Olympics.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Nancy has been chosen to skate for this years US Olympic team.
    
                      stig

>>    Nancy has been chosen to skate for this years US Olympic team.
    
  for all the right rea$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$on$$$$$$$$$$$

 mikey

    I guess I'm one of the few that thinks she (Nancy) should not have been
    placed on the team. She should have earned her way on like everyone
    else. The skating committee should have eated to see if NK recovered
    and judged her...
    
    REK

    eated??? C'mon Rick...what is it lunch time???
    
                         stig

	As a Bronze medalist in the '92 games and the defending National
champion. Her credentials are good enough to get her on the team. She
will be evaluated by a 5 member Olympic committee panel on Feb. 3rd. If
she is not ready by Feb 3rd, the alternate will go. So she is not an
autmatic entry as of yet

Ron

    You heard (read) it here first....
    
    Today, at 4:00 pm Detriot Police will announce that Tanya Harding's
    Husband and her bodyguard will be charged with the attack on Nancy
    Kerrigan....
    
    REK
    
    

    	I predict that the ratings for this year's Olympic Women's Figure
    Skating will soar through the roof!  Man this stuff is better than the
    Bobbit trial!
    
    				/Don

>    Today, at 4:00 pm Detriot Police will announce that Tanya Harding's
>    Husband and her bodyguard will be charged with the attack on Nancy
>    Kerrigan....
    
    You know, when I first heard about this incident, damned if the 
    thought didn't briefly cross my mind that the attack could have been 
    calculated by someone close to a competitor and damned if that 
    person wasn't Harding's boyfriend/husband.  Not that I thought 
    that it was a likelihood or even a possibility, but the guy was 
    well-known for prior violent criminal activity.  I don't follow 
    this skating stuff much but it was well-publicized around the time 
    of the last Olympics that this psycho was beating the crap out of 
    Harding and had restraining orders and whatnot out against him.  
    Apparently there must have been a "reconciliation"...
    
    glenn
    

    That funny when I first saw this at my In-Laws I said I'll bet money
    its another competator that wants her out of the picture, I wonder if
    tanya knew of if the bone heid husband was sick of his wife being 2nd
    fiddle and set it up on his own.  Either way how good will Tanya and
    Nancy work as a team ..???
    
    								Mab

>    Either way how good will Tanya and
>    Nancy work as a team ..???
    
There's no teamwork involved.  Each skater is out for his/her own good.

It's like luge.  two or three single lugers get to go, each hoping to 
be the best.

If I'm the #1 luger, and I'm in second place to the USA's #3 luger, I'm 
still gonna hump my butt down that run as quick as I can.

The only teammwork involved is to look nice marching into the opening
ceremonies....


'Saw

    Figure Skating
    
    Rescue 911
    
    Let's watch both!
    
    Mike

>    Figure Skating
>    
>    Rescue 911
>    
>    Let's watch both!
    


Only if we can have two remote controls, a satellite dish to get the
Spanish soaps for afterwards, and a refrigerator in the living room
stocked with beer.

Oh yeah, the pizza place has to be on the speed dialer too....


'Saw

    
    
        John Goodman is a riot!
    
    
    Chap[py

>    
>      That went zooming right over your head, 'Saw.
>

I guess it did....

Funny part is, it's still up there....

<static>"Ah, Propbutt 5-7-niner, you are cleared to begin your approach
	 on runway 2-7."<static>

<static>"Duh....huh?"

do the police also claim that Harding knew about this?

The Crazy Met

>     'Saw, he's talking about the Miller Lite commercials where the
>    guy(s) want to watch one thing and the girl(s) want to watch another
>    so they put a Lite beer on top of the tv and the two events merge.
>    I thought Mike's comment was pretty funny but it loses something if
>    you have to have it explained to you.

I guess it had to catch you just right.  I knew there was something
I'd missed, but I couldn't figure it out....

Duh, I get in now though.....8^)


'Saw

>    It's all just idle speculation right now, TCM. Ridiculous idle
>    speculation at that.
    
    Not really.  I don't think REK made that bulletin up.  As of this
    morning on the news I heard that the FBI had witnesses who heard or
    overheard these two setting this thing up.  That doesn't mean the
    witness couldn't be lying and that they're guilty but this thing has
    advanced beyond the stages of mere wild speculation...
    
    glenn
    

    The Portland Oregonian broke the story about the Harding connection.
    What's the scoop out in Seattle, boys?
    
    BTW, that "witness" is reportedly a minister! Let's hope for his
    sake that he's not a televangelist or he'll have zero credibility.
    
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    

didn't hear anything about it here...of course I sit in my little cube isolated
from the world all day also...

What I do know is that Tonya Harding is a beast and I'd really have a tough
time giving her higher marks than Kerrigan even if Nancy was skating from a
wheelchair...Witt vs. Kerrigan is  the only matchup  that will satisfy the
skating fanatical audience that the networks are trying to please.....


Metz

    I heard the minister had an unlisted number... wot's wit dat?
    

                       <<< Note 155.27 by USCTR1::KING >>>

>    You heard (read) it here first....
>    
>    Today, at 4:00 pm Detriot Police will announce that Tanya Harding's
>    Husband and her bodyguard will be charged with the attack on Nancy
>    Kerrigan....
    
Better dust off that crystal ball, REK...it's almost 10:00 an still no 
    press conference.
    
    Mark.

    Latest twist is that Harding's husband had her bodyguard hire a
    profeesional hitman from Arizona (letsee MikeH take credit for this
    guy :-) to hurt Kerrigan. No indication that Tonya Harding has any
    knowledg of any of this. Bizarre!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    The report with the minister was that he overheard Hardings husband
    talking about either killing Nancy or injuring her.
    
                     stig

    Lufy... so I'm a little early than most people... What can I say..
    
    REK
    
    Some more rumors... Tonya will not be charged with anything... She will
    compete in Lilhammer...Nancy will absolve Harding of being a part of
    the "hit".. Nany will NOT win the gold and people will say the "hit"
    is the reason. Harding will finish about 12th and blame the "hit" as
    the reason why she could not focus on her skating... There will be 9
    movies made from all this mess...
    
    Tonight's Mass cash numbers will be  4 16 26 33 42... :-}

    
    Why are the feds involved ? Are they looking to get an indictment under
    some federal stature ? Things sure are heating up in 'Skategate'.
    
    Will they give style points for the trial ?
    
    Wondering why he didn't do the job right and use a Koho.....

>    Why are the feds involved ? Are they looking to get an indictment under
>    some federal stature ? Things sure are heating up in 'Skategate'.
    
Probably because the alleged "hit man", allegedly is from Arizona, travelled
to Portland to discuss the "hit" with Harding's bodyguard, travelled to
Boston to carry out the hit, missed Kerrigan there, and then travelled to
Detroit.   Crossed state lines it becomes a federal matter.

What I heard on the news just recently was this:

	Harding's husband talked with the bodyguard about getting
	someone to get Kerrigan out of the way.  Supposedly at one
	point someone suggested killing her but they decided just to
	hit her in the leg.

	The bodyguard taped the conversation (musta been a Nixon disciple)
	and contacted the hit man.  He later played the tape for a minister
	friend of his.  The minister contacted PI Gary Crowe to tell him
	what he knew.

	(I don't understand why the minister went to the PI and not the
	police except that he is friends with Crowe).

	Crowe contact the police.

	I've heard arrest is imminent and that Harding herself, while
	disavowing any knowledge, will be charged....


that was what I heard on the ride in....


'Saw

    Paramount's already trying to work on something...
    What do you think:
    
    Kerrigan - Phoebe Cates?  The daughter on Roseanne?  Amy Bannerman?
    Harding - Torey Spelling? Alyssa Milano?  Six from Blossom?
    Bodyguard - Jason Alexander?  Dennis Franz?  Ed O'Neill?
    Husband - Luke Perry? David Faustino?
    Paul Wylie - Neal Patrick Harris?
    Mom - Florence Henderson?
    Dad - Bill Kirkenbauer?

    no matter what happens all the people involved are going to make money.
    Thats why this incident happened. It's a shame that criminals may end
    up getting a profit out of incidents like this. Broadway can make
    anyone famous whether your a criminal or not...
    
    
                stig

    Quickly,
    	Crowe was on Andleman last night; I adjudged his purpose as getting
    the Reverend's side of the story into the press and media before a
    complete gag order is in effect.  Crowe stated that the rev. is already
    under a gag order.
    	The Rev. is 24; Andelman failed to ask Crowe what the relationship
    was between the Rev. and the bodyguard other than that they knew each
    other.
    	Finally a tape was surreptitiously made of the "hit" meeting, not
    necessarily by bodyguard.
    
    	Conclusion btw on reverend is that he had knowledge of impending
    attack prior.
    
    	Andelman in his own inimitable way made a complete hash of
    interview and missed all the salient points.  This is only one of many
    illustrations of how stupid Eddie is; but successful.

    
    As far as I can see it was a simple assault, a misdemeaner and conspiracy
    to commit an assault. Does this require the feds ? I don't want to
    sound un-PC or anything but this is getting out of hand. Legally as I see
    it (I'm not a lawyer and don't pretend to be one) there are a few
    criminal charges and some civil ones pending. (NK will be able to sue
    her attackers for lost revenue, i would assume) 
    
    So what happens to her attackers ? Probably a 6 month jail sentence and
    a fine. BFD. Here we have the FEDS, Detriot PD, and the Oregon PD
    working on this made for T.V. movie. The three people involved will
    turn against each other so only two will be tried. I figure one will
    rat on the other two for immunity. (Bodyguard) The other two will plea
    bargain to some lesser charge. Next up are the movie/book/tv rights for
    sale, and everyone involved will make some cash. If I were the Judge I
    would award all financial gains form these deals to NK, or impose a no
    profit rule. (Ya, right)
    
    What a country, commit a minor crime and make millions off it, and get
    you local/state/federal police forces in on it so there's your tax
    dollars at work. I doubt they had anything better to do anyway, right?
    (Police)
    
    Twisted, real effin twisted.
    
    
            

>    As far as I can see it was a simple assault, a misdemeaner and conspiracy
>    to commit an assault. Does this require the feds ? I don't want to
>    sound un-PC or anything but this is getting out of hand. Legally as I see
>    it (I'm not a lawyer and don't pretend to be one) there are a few
>    criminal charges and some civil ones pending. (NK will be able to sue
>    her attackers for lost revenue, i would assume) 

I think the point is that it was a conspiracy that crossed state lines,
and that makes it federal.  (Kind of like the old days when post offices
could be in general stores -- hit the general store for $10 in an armed
robbery, and it became a federal rap).


But I'm no expert.....I don't even play one on TV....


'Saw    

                                       
    Only simple assault and just a misdemeanor?  I don't know about that.
    You've supposedly got a tape where someone brings up, in seriousness, 
    the possibility of *killing* Kerrigan.  Whether the conspirators 
    ultimately decided to go through with that or not, they then hire
    someone to execute the plan.  I don't equate that with someone taking 
    a swing at someone else in a spontaneous moment.  This story will no
    doubt be overexposed to the hilt but this is the kind of thing I'd
    expect the FBI to be involved with.  For starters, before they got
    these leads, they didn't know what kind of a psychopath they were
    dealing with.  When you're dealing with celebrity stalkers it could
    turn out to be someone who eventually takes a crack at the president...
    
    glenn
    

>    profeesional hitman from Arizona (letsee MikeH take credit for this
>    guy :-) to hurt Kerrigan. No indication that Tonya Harding has any
    
    probably Mexican Mafia, kind of like the Italian group you have in NYC,
    Craze.

    I know the AZ FBI folks are involved in the mess.  

>    Kerrigan - Phoebe Cates?  The daughter on Roseanne?  Amy Bannerman?
>    Harding - Torey Spelling? Alyssa Milano?  Six from Blossom?
>    Bodyguard - Jason Alexander?  Dennis Franz?  Ed O'Neill?
>    Husband - Luke Perry? David Faustino?
>    Paul Wylie - Neal Patrick Harris?
>    Mom - Florence Henderson?
>    Dad - Bill Kirkenbauer?

    Walt you need to get out more.

    
    
    Nah, Bam Bam Bigelow should play the bodyguard and James Olmos the
    husband.
    
    

>    I think you're wrong again, Archie Bunker. The name of the hitman, as
>    it's being reported in Boston, is Shane Stant. That doesn't sound like
>    Mexican Mafia to me. 
    
    Well George Jefferson, I have a novel idea for you:  you don't have to 
    be Mexican to join!

    
    What specific laws have been broken ? If you or I where smacked in an
    airport would the feds help out ? The whole thing stinks, and the media 
    are the typical hungry wolves. I switched on the news and the reporter
    was describing that they sent out for pizza. My god, What's next ?  

    >  "Italian group that you have in New York"? Let go of your hangups, Beavis.

re: Feds

Feds are in based on a racketerring law passed in the 1930's as well
as the crossing state lines deal. 

Laws: assault with a dangerous weapon
      conspiracy

That is just a start. The first being a felony.

You may hate all the hype, news reports, etc. but there is a legal
basis for the Feds to be involved.

The Crazy Met

>    What specific laws have been broken ? If you or I where smacked in an
>    airport would the feds help out ? The whole thing stinks, and the media 
>    are the typical hungry wolves. I switched on the news and the reporter
>    was describing that they sent out for pizza. My god, What's next ?  
    
    I don't care what the media and then the moviemakers do.  They're
    idiots, but they're not on the public dole.  Do you doubt that a 
    felony has occurred, when several people plot an interstate
    conspiracy to maim a person, and then successfully execute the plan 
    with an assault with a weapon?  It falls short of attempted murder 
    and conspiracy to commit murder but it's got to be the next level 
    below, felonious assault and conspiracy and certainly not misdemeanor
    assault.  I just can't be *that* cynical about government to say that 
    federal law enforcement shouldn't be involved in bringing such nuts to 
    justice before they actually kill someone (and yes, I'd feel the same 
    way if some nut went to such lengths across the country to assault you 
    in the airport, as implausible as that might be).  Otherwise, there's
    not much point in having an FBI, except to clean up after the fact...
    
    glenn
    

    
     >  "Italian group that you have in New York"? 
    Get your facts straight,  ain't Italian, it's the Sicilian boys 
    your trying to name. I guess that makes me involved then...

    The big question now is  Was Stephie Graf or someone close to her
    involved in the Monica Seles stabbing?   Does this incident make the
    odds go up that MS was a "hit".  I'd say its 50-50.
    
    And, Michael Jordan's father's death is now 30-70 that it was connected
    to MJs unsavory non-NBA life.
    
    Because "Crazy" is now commonplace.

    
    
    
      Back to the Made for TV movie.
    
       Brian Denehey (sp) and Richard Crenna could play the lead FBI men.
    Shannon Doherty could be Harding (with a wig?)
    
    
    
    Chappy

> Because "Crazy" is now commonplace.


hey I resent that :-)

The Crazy Met

>    And, Michael Jordan's father's death is now 30-70 that it was connected
>    to MJs unsavory non-NBA life.
    
    I hear the 2 accused of killing James Jordan are now claiming he was
    already dead when they found him.

�I switched on the news and the reporter
�    was describing that they sent out for pizza. My god, What's next ?  
    
    I saw that.  Apparently the media listened to REK's report and were
    awaiting that 4 pm statement from the Detroit police.  They were
    gathered around Kerrigan's house to get a reaction to the
    newsconference which never occurred.  The pizza remark was a thankyou
    to the neighbors and the Kerrigan's for helping the news crews get some
    dinner.

�             -< Maybe some of these other things were "hits" too >-
�
�    The big question now is  Was Stephie Graf or someone close to her
�    involved in the Monica Seles stabbing?   Does this incident make the
�    odds go up that MS was a "hit".  I'd say its 50-50.
�    
�    And, Michael Jordan's father's death is now 30-70 that it was connected
�    to MJs unsavory non-NBA life.
    
    You're really reaching here, Bill.  I think it has been pretty well
    shown that there was no grassy noll in Germany and that MJ's father was
    a victim of random violence.

    I couln't believe channel five did a news report on Nancy across from
    her house. Mike Dowling was out in the snow and said that the Kerruigan
    household was waiting in the house and trying to live a normal type of
    life away from everyone. Yet,the media continues to hang around the
    house. They saw Nancy left the house one time during the day..Sometimes
    I wonder who the real "stalkers" are...
    
    what about John Candy as the "bodyguard"...
    
                    stig

    	I think one can safely state that the Bobbits, the Branch Davidians
    and the Mega(Sissy)Plex have dropped below the Nancy Kerrigan Assault
    in the Feeding Frenzy department.
    
    				/Don

         Hypothetically, let's say that Tonya Harding's husband and body
    guard are indicted for various crimes, but that Harding herself is not.
    She would then remain eligible to compete in the Olympic Games as the
    reigning U.S. Champion.  Imagine if you will the negative crowd
    reaction and the the attendant media circus that will follow her every
    move for the next month, leading up to the competition in Lillehammer?
    I do not believe there is any possible way that she could be focused
    enough to compete against the best the world.
    
         The picture is almost as glum for Nancy Kerrigan.  First she has
    to overcome the injury she suffered in Detroit, and the downtime away
    from the practice ice.  Then once she recovers enough to resume
    training, she has to put up with clowns in the media, camped outside
    her home and rifling through her discarded pizza boxes, trying to
    determine if she orders double cheese or not.  She too will have a very
    difficult time trying to regain her competitive edge in time for
    Lillehammer.  If I her were her I'd immediately assemble her entourage
    and disappear to some small town in Europe for the next month!
    
    Russ
        

So now that our figure skating hopes are shot, we can concentrate
on the REAL reason I'm interested in the Winter Olympics, 

Bobsledding......

�Dan Shaughnessy, who must have some-
� thing big to hang over the sports editor's head, equates the news of
� what happened to Nancy Kerrigan to the death of Reggie Lewis and the
� news Magic Johnson testing HIV+. Get real, Dan. 
    
    Well, when you consider that figure skating is the number 1 sport for
    the TV audience according to more than one poll, I guess it is as big
    a deal as the others.
    
� typical of this culture of gossip that has developed in this country that
� both stories eclipse such mundane topics as ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, a
� serial child killer in western Mass and upstate New York and a possible pres-
� idential scandal. 
    
    I guess I'm watching the wrong shows, but I don't see any eclipsing
    going on here.  All of these stories are prominent (OK, Bosnia is
    slipping since it has been going on so long).
    
�John Q. 
� Public gets whacked in the parking lot of the Wiggly Piggly over his pay-
� check. 
    
    But what about Suzy Q?  And I thought it was Piggly Wiggly.

    It's really Isiah Thomas that hit a female figure-skater and ran away
    in Detroit.

    
    Wait until she (NK) goes to the olympics. If I think it's overblown now
    when (IF) she medals  it will equal a cure for aids in the
    sports/media world. 
    
    Can't wait.
    
    Give me Luge,Hockey,Bobbsledding, skiing and the xcountry shooting
    matches anyday. Figureskating is the last thing to watch.(IMO) So what
    we'll get is 90% figureskating, up close and pesonal with how tough it
    is, 10% on the rest of the olympics. Only stuffed in between the
    reports of NK going to the bathroom and what type anti-persperant she put
    on today.
    
    Sad thing is, I would like to hear about the athelete that struggled to
    make his/her sport while working and keeping a family together.
    Qualifies, competes against the worlds best and comes home. Boring, but
    I thought that was what the 'pics where all about, not some warped plot
    of a deranged group morons who need to have the s#it beat out of them
    and tossed in jail for 5 years or so. The did it because they thought
    they could get away with it, even if caught they probably know that
    it's a win-win situation. 
    
    Sad but we'll here this until mid sumer.

'Saw

Is bobsleeding the sport the US team has achance to medalin for the
first time in decades?? Or is it luge?

The Crazy Met

�    Sad thing is, I would like to hear about the athelete that struggled to
�    make his/her sport while working and keeping a family together.
�    Qualifies, competes against the worlds best and comes home. 

    Don't worry, you'll get plenty of that when they aren't covering figure
    skating.  Most of it will probably be focused on the athletes coming
    from war torn nations.

�Boring, but
�    I thought that was what the 'pics where all about, not some warped plot
�    of a deranged group morons who need to have the s#it beat out of them
�    and tossed in jail for 5 years or so. 
    
    I think you're letting this incident get to you a little too much.  I
    haven't seen anyone defining the Olympics based on this one incident. 
    You're also showing a little naivete.  The day of the self funded
    athlete are long gone (if they were ever there -- before corporate
    money there was family money).

Some of the less glamarous sports - Luge, Bobsledding come to mind - were
given very little funding until the last 8-10 years. In the 1960-1970's
there were likely a lot of self-funded atheletes.

The Crazy Met

�In the 1960-1970's
�there were likely a lot of self-funded atheletes.
    
    Yabbut, did that self funding put a cramp in their style or was mommy &
    daddy warbucks backing them?

    
    Some of the lesser sports had almost no funding and it was left up to
    the athelete to get it through fund raisers and drives. Now we have pro
    football players doing bobsled and such. Ptooie. The biggies will
    always have the cash, the more obscure sports don't or should I say
    didn't.
    
    Maybe I am letting it get to me, but WTF it's everywhere I turn.  
    
    

    Ok Bosnia, well after hearing how much we spent on the Iraq war, and
    then how much money we gave to Russia Im a little sick of this contry
    sending its troops and spend Mucho $$$ On everywere else except here in
    america.
    
    The Killer from Western MA, here's a guy who admits guilt, draws a map
    and then would have shown them were the body(s) were but a lawyer steps
    in and tells him to NO COMMENT, this lawyer should be shot, what about
    the poor parents of the kids that dont know for sure...
    
    The President, All politics are crooks and guilty, enough said...
    
    Nancy, An olymipic GOld Medailist Hopefule, from MA is attacked more
    then likly from a competator's husband/bodyguard.... Id say its worthy
    of the news, I bought the paper today to read about this and only this
    and then checked out the sports page.. 
    
    If the president is a crook, it will be coverd up, with a lawyer
    involved the Mass Murderer is INSANE and will plead that way, Bobbit
    the guy was an animal, does he deserve to be dismember'd proberbly not
    and Bosnia, if we can screw it up spend millions and do little help,
    thats what will
    happen........................................................................
    
    								MaB

                           
    Not only is Shaughnessy's column overblown but I think it's insincere.
    I think basically he was told he had to write on this very important
    topic of compelling interest and probably like most sports guys didn't 
    want to, so he gave it the old half-hearted "isn't that horrible, how 
    shocking" treatment.  A weak effort...
    
    The Bobbitt coverage is much worse, though, imo.  I really thought this
    would die very shortly after it got any mention at all.  The reason
    this case has received any notice is very superficial if you think 
    about it.  I'm kind of surprised that this act or something close to it
    hasn't happened many many times before given the general moral 
    deprivation and violence in this country, and maybe it has but it took
    a certain sequence of reporting events to set it off. 
    
    glenn
      

    
    Would someone please send me mail when this current conversation is
    over and we get back to the Winter Olympics.  Thank you.
    
    Marc

The role of the bodyguard is MADE for Don Robichaud...

re: .94

nah, you need to find a cynic that /er can play.

The Crazy Met

>>nah, you need to find a cynic that /er can play.
  
     Er, the "Tommy Brydie Story"??
    
    MikeL
    

    Just heard on the radio driving  in that Tonya Harding will be
    arrested, along with her ex-, bodyguard, and two others - on conspiracy
    charges.  Apparently she was in it from the gitgo.
    
    Rodney

so does she now get stripped of the title? does Kwan go instead of her?

If Harding was in on it from the beginning sh is too stupid to go anywhere!
She was basically guaranteed a #1 or #2 finish which meant sh was going to
the Olympics.

The Crazy Met

�so does she now get stripped of the title? does Kwan go instead of her?
    
    Considering that the courts are about the only place where folks are
    innocent until proven otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised.

The "US Olympic Code Of Conduct" prohibits athletes under indicment from being 
on the 'lympic team.

Bobsledding is the event that we have a chance to medal in.

Due to efforts by Geoff Bodine and a chassis shop in Oxford Ct (why
does the name Chassis Dynamics come to mind) the USA now has an
entire fleet of "Made in the USA" bobsleds.

They're fast, and they're quiet.  The Europeans call them "stealth"
because you can't hear them coming -- seriously.

IBM is heavily involved, donating computer equipment, from PS/2 systems
to laptops, which can plug right into the sleds and dowload telemetry
from the runs.

A high tech operation, definitely....


'Saw

and if the new bobsleds really work then the governing body will probably
pass some rules to make them illegal - it is not all that far fetched;
just look at the IAAF.

The Crazy Met

If the US has a chance to medal, you can bet that CBS will provide heavy
doses of it.

The Crazy Met

    Is bobsledding really a sport?  Afterall, it's the earth's gravity and
    the bobsled design engineers that do the work.

Mac,

do you want me to forward your question - not this note, but the question
contained in it - to JD??

The Crazy Met

    'Saw,
    
    It is interesting that the new bobsleds are quiet.  I grew up in upstate
    NY not too far from Lake Placid, and I can tell you that the older
    sleds made a real racket, something you don't expect at first.
    
    I suspect you have been there to watch them slide?  It is one of those
    sports which is phenomenal when witnessed in person; much better than
    on TV.  Of course, in my opinion, no sport is as spectacular "live", while 
    being as dull on TV, as ski jumping... you gotta see that live to
    believe it!
    
    Clark               

Ain't nobody gonna sled over me this winter...

=Bob=

�    I suspect you have been there to watch them slide?  
    
    Nah, 'Saw is just getting caught up with the NASCAR connection.  Are
    the guys in the sled going to be allowed to chew tobaccy or will that
    effect the track conditions?

    So we're looking at a cripple and a convict to go for the gold at
    Sledgehammer...erh Lillihammer....what a country.
    
    Maj

> Are the guys in the sled going to be allowed to chew tobaccy
> or will that effect the track conditions?


as long as they don't spit it out on the track.

The Crazy Met

    They'd have a new condition, Brown Ice.
    
    Yuck
    
    JaKe
    

    
    NASCAR guys doing the chassis ? all I can say is it's about time a good
    ol merican sled was designed. I hope they do well and medal. 
    
    I have never seen a Bobsled race live. Sounds like it would be a great
    event to see in person. Have to put that on the list of must see before
    I croak!
    
    
    
    Back to figure skating, maybe it's my inner self that dispises them so
    much, they only ruin the ice for the real sport that was made to be
    played on ice....hockey.8*)
    
    Will IBM's name be on the sled under the flag ?
    

    Mac,
    	My point was that specualtion eg Michael Jordan and dad,Seles.. is
    normally dismissed a la the "grassy knoll" response.
    
    	But this time the wierdest possible speculation proved correct. 
    But I guess I am reaching a little.
    
    	But if I could get a bet down on either spec. at good odds I'd take
    it.
    

>>               <<< Note 155.62 by FRETZ::HEISER "it ain't me" >>>
 >>         -< Phoebe's shining moment was Fast Times @ Ridgemont High >-

>    Kerrigan - Phoebe Cates?  The daughter on Roseanne?  Amy Bannerman?
>    Harding - Torey Spelling? Alyssa Milano?  Six from Blossom?
>    Bodyguard - Jason Alexander?  Dennis Franz?  Ed O'Neill?
>    Husband - Luke Perry? David Faustino?
>    Paul Wylie - Neal Patrick Harris?
>    Mom - Florence Henderson?
>    Dad - Bill Kirkenbauer?

>>    Walt you need to get out more.
    
  I get out a lot, that's why I don't watch enough to know who's current
    and who's not.  Maybe I should be home more....

    Bobsled ain't as manly as the luge. We might medal there too...
    
    Isiah works out in Auburn Hills, not downtown Detriot(tm).

    
>>Bobsledding is the event that we have a chance to medal in.

>>Due to efforts by Geoff Bodine and a chassis shop in Oxford Ct (why
>>does the name Chassis Dynamics come to mind) the USA now has an
>>entire fleet of "Made in the USA" bobsleds.
    
    Hey, being a NASCAR type has been working on these, and we know most
    NASCARites are good ol' boys from the south, does this make the sleds:
    
    
    
    Billy_Bobsleds??????
    
    
    Inquiring mindless and all that stuff
    
    JaKe

tori spelling as Tonya harding...nah...more like one of those American
Gladiator chicks...

Metz

    latest report is that Tonya Harding is not implicated in the attack on
    Kerrigan.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    I suspect you have been there to watch them slide?  It is one of those
>    sports which is phenomenal when witnessed in person; much better than
>    on TV.  Of course, in my opinion, no sport is as spectacular "live", while 
>    being as dull on TV, as ski jumping... you gotta see that live to
>    believe it!
    
No, actually, I saw an excellent report on the team on PRIME sports....
They talked with Bodine and then the fellow from Chassis Dynamics.
Then they showed footage of the new sleds.


'Saw

    
    For me Bobsledding and Luge are some of the purist forms of racing.
    Man & machine vs. the track. Minor  errors cost you time and major ones
    could cost you serious injury. Love that edge.
    
    

>    Nah, 'Saw is just getting caught up with the NASCAR connection.  Are
>    the guys in the sled going to be allowed to chew tobaccy or will that
>    effect the track conditions?

Hey, laugh while you can Monkey Boy....

It's pretty pathetic that it took Bodine having to put out his own money
to get our team decent equipment when supposedly they have a team and
organization that is supposed to take care of all that.

But it's good that we did.  

And when you think about it, it's a pretty good correlation, since most
of the strides in chassis devlepment in this country are made by NASCAR, and
that engineering applies pretty well to bobsleds.

Further, none of the drivers I know chew tobacco.  The closest one comes
to that is old James Hilton, who chews on his cigars.  Besides, Bodine
is a northern boy from Chemung, NY.    

And on a coincident note, the son of the barber who cuts my hair used to
race against Bodine out in Stafford....but the kid lost a lot...8^)


'Saw

>    Will IBM's name be on the sled under the flag ?

The sleds I saw had some really bodacious color schemes, the nicest one
having like a stylized eagel head running around to the nose.

If I'm not mistaken, the IBM logo was very small, on the nose of the 
sled.   The Chassis Dynamics logo is on the side somewhere....


'Saw
    

>    Bobsled ain't as manly as the luge. We might medal there too...
    
Girl from CT made the women's luge team.

Both sports are pretty dangerous.....


'Saw

>    Hey, being a NASCAR type has been working on these, and we know most
>    NASCARites are good ol' boys from the south, does this make the sleds:

Bodine is from Chemung, NY, and Chassis Dynamics is from Oxford CT.

Lots of northern boys are into NASCAR now....


'Saw

    
    I wonder why the sleds don't have sponsorship logos showing. The skiers
    do. Must be an IOC rule or some type of regulation. If it were my sled
    I would seek as much sposorship as possable and advertise my sponsors
    logos big, bold and bright. What a golden opportunity to get instant
    name recognition. (Listening Digital marketing ?)
     

One final note....

It was interesting that both Bodine and the fellow from Chassis Dynamics
said that the deadlines for this project were incredible.  They said that
when they first got involved, they were not aware of the fact that the
Olympics were going to be staggered, and that their development time would
essentially be cut in half.....


'Saw

>    name recognition. (Listening Digital marketing ?)
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Hahahaha....

         Back to SkateGate for a moment, does anyone have the feeling
    that WCVB (Channel 5 - Boston) is a long way out on thin ice and 
    feeling a bit exposed this morning, by prematurely reporting that an
    arrest warrant had been issued on Tonya Harding?  Even Peter Jennings,
    reporting from Moscow made mention of the report "out of Boston".
    The Channel 5 Sports Crew seems to be giving Hard Copy a run for their
    money.
    
    Russ

    
    I heard on CNN as I was walking by the tube in PKO that a well
    respected Boston station has reported the arrest warrants have been
    issued. Well respected ? Double ptooie.
    

TCM -

Bobsledding a sport.  Well, after all, it can be
considered HUMAN POWERED, since it is the initial
push that gets them going.  It's not like they
have an ignition key, an engine, and need gasoline
to make it go - like in Car Racing or MotorCycle Racing.

It's sort of like Bicycling - the sport is extremely
assisted by mechanical means - so it isn't a "pure"
sport - but at least it requires more than the ability
to wear sponser's logos, sweat, and remembering to
press the gas to go, the brake to stop....

JD

�Even Peter Jennings,
    
    nit:  That was Morton Dean, not Jennings.

�    I heard on CNN as I was walking by the tube in PKO that a well
�    respected Boston station has reported the arrest warrants have been
�    issued. Well respected ? Double ptooie.
    
    Well they must be respected by somebody if CNN and ABC (perhaps more, I
    was only tuned into ABC this morning) is perpetuating the story.  FWIW,
    ABC reported that 2 arrests have been made and that more on coming. 
    ABC did mention that WCVB reports Tonya Harding might be arrested as
    well.

The DA specifically stated that Harding is not a suspect and not being
charged with anything.

Harding's bodyguard and the driver of the getaway car were arrested in
Portland. 2 other arrests expected today.

The Crazy Met

    I would think that with the possibility of Harding being removed from
    the Olympic team should she be arrested, they'll make damn sure they
    have a hands down case against her.  I just don't see that happening
    unless either she or her husband implicate her.
    
    					Steve

    
    Warrants do not necessarily have to be issued. The DA *might* have
    drawn up a sealed arrest warrant for Tonya. Channel 5 might be going
    on some inside sources and the spin is on in Portland. Who knows..
    This is getting weirder. The press is camped out in Stoneham, Mass. as
    well as all over Portland (Harding's house, her stepfathers, rink,
    etc.) and no one has seen Tonya at all for two days. 
    
    Yo Mac, I think you might have something.. Bobsled, luge.. what do
    these people do, give themselves a push, jump on and go Wheeeeeee!
    I cain do that on mah hill...
    
    TH,
    I ain't a fan of figure skating at all but I remember an old quote of
    Derek Sanderson. He said if hockey players were in half as great a
    shape as figure skaters, you'd only need one line, one D and one 10
    minute break in a 60 minute game ( I played hockey extensively so ah
    know what kind of shape hockey players is in). Now I don't know if
    Derek said that while sipping a few at Fathers Too.. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
    Figure skaters are strong, have great stamina and some serious moves. I
    wish I had some. Also mentally tough as well. Besides, I think that the
    female skaters have the nicest glutes on the planet, I would like to
    see a little more skin from those costumes.....I just hate what the do to
    the ice surface.  
    
    The Turk respects the talent of the FS as I do. He may have been
    streching it abit, but some of what he said was true. They have good
    bursts of power and exceptional balance, two musts for any pro NHL'er.
    
    Now if we can just get the Turk in the booth instead of Dick Buttons.
     

I think you're exactly right, Mike.  They procure arrest warrants
ahead of time so that, in case they need it, they don't have to
wake up a judge in the middle o' the night.
Probably not entirely legal but hey, this is the FBI.
dr.a

    Oh jeez,
    Here we go again with the victim thing again. This maroon is Western
    Mass, the guy who allegedly raped and murdered three young girls,
    is all of a sudden a victim of his evironment because he ws abused as
    a kid. Now po' po' Tonya. Did she get hit with a tire iron?
    
    Now Tonya will be looked upon as a victim of her tough upbringing
    and surrounding herself with idiots. And she condones press releases
    from her fan club members excoriating her competitors and threatening
    press members if they write anything negative about her.
    She may not be guilty of anything but let's not paint her as a victim.
    Christ, Kerrigan gets whacked and Harding's first words "I'm going
    to prove I'm #1." Then when Kerrigan gets named to the team,
    "I'm gonna kick her butt." Classy lady. She surrounds herself with
    lowlifes and she's a victim. You reap what you sow.  She ain't no
    victim, regardless of whether she's culpable or not. I don't think
    anyone cried "Tonya's a victim, too" after she chased some woman last
    year with a baseball bat following a car accident.
    
    Personally, I can't see how she didn't know anything about the
    conspiring of those close to her. But in this country you're supposedly
    innnocent until proven guilty.. but that doesn't make her a victim.
    
    MikeL
     

    Agreed 100% Tommy.  On the other hand (and this is just hypothetical),
    if Harding knew what was up behind the attack-- even after the fact, in
    which case she is still not guilty-- and then a couple of nights later went 
    out and nailed her program and brazenly told the country how good she is, 
    she's got some of the iciest veins I've ever seen in an athlete.  If
    that were the case I might not be worried how she holds up under the
    pressure of the Olympics...
    
    glenn
    

    
    
    Tonya Harding = Pam Smart, surprised the media hasn't nailed that
    angle... yet.
    

>She surrounds herself with
>    lowlifes and she's a victim. You reap what you sow.  
				  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  She may be completely innocent and until proven otherwise I'll give her
  the benefit of the doubt. I hope she skates well in the Olympics.
  But she ain't no victim. The above says it all.

	Keith

    Usually the DA will not say anything before arrests are made, warrants
    issued, etc. For the DA to come out and say that Harding is not a
    suspect is unusual. As far as I'm concerned it was irresponsible of ABC
    and then WCVB to say that Harding was a suspect unless they had
    irrefutable sources for that.
    
    And yes Harding is also victimized by this whole sordid affair. But
    saying that does not mean that Kerrigan is not a victim. The two are
    not mutually exclusive.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    -< Tonya Harding's future is doomed regardless of her status >-
    
    
    Not really.  I think most FSs get their money from endorsements. 
    Harding would still be able to get some, for THe Club, for instance.
    
    brews

    
    
    
     With regards to the oh_so_fine_Bodine_Design Bob Sled, the first
    test run in Lillehammer resulted in a crash on Turn 2, about
    6 seconds out of the chute.
    
      The reaction from Geoff Bodine?
    
    
     
       "Holy $hit, you mean there's RIGHT turns in this sport? 
    
       

>     
>       "Holy $hit, you mean there's RIGHT turns in this sport? 
>    

Geoff is actually pretty good at right turns.  He won the race at
Sonoma on the road course last season, if I remember correctly.

Course, I can't remember the damn name of the race course.....

'Saw
       

�    TH,
�    I ain't a fan of figure skating at all but I remember an old quote of
�    Derek Sanderson. He said if hockey players were in half as great a
�    shape as figure skaters, you'd only need one line, one D and one 10
�    minute break in a 60 minute game ( I played hockey extensively so ah

	I disagree MikeL, I think you would need lots of fill-ins for when 
someone breaks their nail and has to spend 10-20 days on injured reserved.

				/Don

>   smiling ice queens, that we've always had, anyday. I've always pre-
>   ferred real people to replicants.


"Solyent Green is PEOPLE!  It's PEOPLE!"

    	RE: 155.152
    
    	Someone told Kent Hrbek he needed to buy a vowel.
    
    	Man, you need to buy some commas, or even a period. I
    	nearly wore out my eyes reading that string. 8-)>
    
    	Harding is toast, regardless. She could win the gold, find
    	the cure for cancer and AIDS, walk on water, and rebuild
    	a Hemi blindfolded and she'd still be toast.
    
    	Scott

�    	RE: 155.152
 
Au Contre (sp), I re-read the note, and it is perfectly punctuated.

The 'Cadet   

    re: .155
    
    Show off!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Poifectly punctuated with hyperbole dat is..
    
    What the hail you talking about? Let's not try to obfuscate
    and confuse things here.
    Whether I like her or not means squat to the "victim" premise.
    
    I scanned an article in USA Today that brought forth the
    "victim" argument in Harding's defense. Bullsugar.
    If she's innocent and has had no idea what her compatriots were up
    to fine.. but she ain't no victim. That's my only point.
    
    So what if she's busted her butt.. you don't think Kerrigan and
    countless others have done the same?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    
>    If she's innocent and has had no idea what her compatriots were up
>    to fine.. but she ain't no victim. That's my only point.
    
    I dunno, Mike.  Having the likes of Channel 5 telling the world that
    you're about to be arrested *if* it isn't true and you are in fact 
    completely innocent isn't exactly a great career booster.  As for the 
    other stuff about personalities, I don't see any point in taking sides.  
    Not living up to a phony image is no more commendable than having such 
    a phony image bestowed upon you.
    
    glenn
    

    She is at the point where to salvage anything she needs to make a
    public disavowal of her two ex'es (hubbie & bodyguard).  She needs a
    scriptwriter at this point (Tommy? - you available, Sorenson's busy) to
    pull off the victim thing.
    
    But if she makes the plea and sells it the whole thing may work in her
    favor as it ironically has for Kerrigan.
    
    In fact, Mac if you really want "grassy knoll" theory how about Nancy
    masterminded the whole thing - :-):-) (just broke my rule)

>Au Contre (sp), I re-read the note, and it is perfectly punctuated.

fyi -- au contraire


8^)

    	I don't like Harding.  Everytime she smiles it looks like her face
    is going to break.  That alone should warrant an arrest.
    
    				/Don

    Yabbut glenn,
    If damaging she has legal recourse no?? We're talking two different
    things here; I'm not referncing any "victim" of the outta-control
    fickle tabloid media. Hell if she's innocent, I wish her luck
    and if she wins the gold, you'll see the $$$$ come around. The
    media will do a complete 360 in a NooYawk minute.
    
    I don't want to hear no Alan Aldaesque/Marjorie Clapprood
    weeping for po' Tonya. Ya know like she is a victim of her
    upbringing so she ran with the wrong crowd etc. and look what
    harm they done her. Boohoo. That's what I find deesgustin'.
    
    MikeL
     
    

    Legal recourse?  She might, but realistically I doubt it'd come to 
    anything.  Implicating someone in such wrongdoing if it isn't true could
    be slander, but I guess you'd have to prove intent.  These are factors 
    external to Harding's control and she could be damaged by them, and
    that part is unfair.  I see your points about factors within her
    control, though.  The group of "wackos" who may have destroyed her 
    life happens to include her husband, which I don't consider to be an 
    irrelevant point.  A person has some responsibility for whom they 
    associate with, and it doesn't get much closer to home than that.
    
  >> Not living up to a phony image is no more commendable than having such 
  >> a phony image bestowed upon you.
   > 
   >  That's one opinion. But it ain't mine.
    
    If, for whatever reason, you believe that Kerrigan is putting on false
    airs to promote this image, then I see your point.  I'm talking merely 
    about being "guilty" of a media image dropped on you simply based on 
    such things as one's looks, etc.  Why rail against something that the
    person has no control over?  Likewise, on the other side, I don't have 
    much respect for someone if they're rebelling against conformity by 
    adopting an equally conformist and superficial "bad boy/girl" image and 
    behaving disrepectfully just to attract attention (like self-promoting 
    idiots in other sports like Brian Bosworth, Jim McMahon, Andre Agassi,
    etc.).  It's all the same to me; phony is phony...
    
    glenn
    

    She's a victim because, win or lose she's doomed, not because of her
    upbringing.  The damage has been done.  The baseball bat story, her
    comments after Kerrigan was "removed" from the competition have already
    given people an opinion about her.  It's an opinion that I don't think
    she's capable of changing given her makeup.  
    
    Of course, I think it's still quite likely that Harding was in on this whole
    thing, but that's beside the point.
    
    					Steve

    Just heard the TV movie thang on this is going to be haided into
    production in a month or so, and Tonya Harding is gonna be played by
    
    Nell Carter
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

  I read a few things in the paper that may shed some light on the motivation
  for the crime. Evidently, from various estimates, the winner of the Gold
  medal in figure skating stands to make about $10 million from endorsements,
  appearances etc. Then ya have a couple of losers like Harding's ex-husband
  and bodyguard drooling over this money. Harding tried to dump her ex a
  couple of times and the bodyguard was unemployed until Harding received
  a death threat.(it wouldn't surprise me if the bodyguard made the death 
  threat expecting to get hired). And guess what, after the attack,
  Harding would have even more reason to keep a bodyguard and maybe even 
  give him a raise. I can see those 2 loser's dreaming up some
  crazy scheme to insure they get a piece of the 10 mil. But I still can't
  see a world class athlete athlete who has busted her butt training since 
  she was age 4, trying to knock off the competition in any other way than 
  out skating her.

  Colorado has been a training ground for many world class skaters, especially
  at the Broadmoor World Arena here in Colorado Springs. I number of people
  have called the local radio talk shows and claim they know or have knowledge
  about Harding. Evidently, the time she chased someone with a baseball bat
  is not an isolated incident. There were stories of her getting into fist 
  fights with her coaches. 

	Keith  

    Just in, Nancy Kerrigan's part in the made for TV movie has been cast
    now, also, playing her will be
    
    
    
    Richard Simmons.
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Bring back Peggy Fleming.

Ya gotta remember the background of most of these skaters compared to
Harding..Most of them come from upper-middle to rich backgrounds....Harding
used to live in a trailer home in her grandparents front yard and used to
collect cans off the side of the road to pay for her skating dresses...

Of course the skating establishment isn't going to like a rough and tumble kid
from across the tracks unless the kid is willing to put on airs in order to fit
in (like the waitress from the last olympics)...Harding wasn't willing to do
that..

However she is responsible for the company she keeps and if her image is
sullied because of her husband and bodyguard ..tough, that's life. I'm sure CBS
had an up  close and personal segment discussing her background and what a
marvel is was for her to rise above it...it appears that story will have to go
on hold...

My guess is that she's disgusted by her husbands lack of faith in her and is
hoping he'll exonerate her from the whole mess.....

Metz

    More on the TV movie casting
    
    to play the bodyguard:
    
    Emmanuel Lewis
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Metz,
    I know that Harding has had a tough background and I do give her credit
    for her constant attempts to rise above it. She doesn't fit the
    stereotype of the well-off figure skater that the Olympic committee
    supposedly fosters. However, Kerrigan comes from no easy background.
    Her father has scraped and re-mortgaged to finance her efforts ( in
    the past till the endorsements came in). Obviously she came from
    a better background than Harding but she wasn't born with a silver
    spoon in her mouth.
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    
    

    Another cast member announced
    
    To play Dick Buttons(even though he wasn't there, ya know, artistic
    license) will be
    
    Roseanne Arnold
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Jake.. your jokes are old and really not funny at all...
    
    REK

    REK DO ME!!!
    
    BTW, you REK are old and not really funny at all.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    ANother casting anouncement, cast in the role of the blunt inanimate
    cold object used to whack Kerrigan in the knee is
    
    
    SPROTS own REK....
    
    
    ..how fitting.....
    
         
    
    
    JaKe
    

    i heard on WEEI this morning that if Harding has anything to do with
    this the Olympics committee is going to drop her from the team that is
    if she doesn't withdraw.
    
                         stig

    Jake Jake Jake.. Pittsburg....  Enought said.....
    
    Lufy.... Leominster.... Enought said....
    
    Get a life BOYS!!!!!!
    
    REK
    
    PS Lufy, nice reply.. first thing you have put it here in a while...
    PSS Jake, don't give up the day job.. Your family would starve if you
    trid to make a living as a comic.... :-}

    re: JaKe - or as a casting agent. heck JaKe would probably fail
    at the casting couch as well.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Thanks fer the votes of confidence...I'll just consider the sources.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    	Too late now, but 60 Minutes had a segment last night about
    	Tonya Harding. Showed her skating when she was much younger.
    
    	Scott

    Yeah, talked about how much of a bitch her mom is...
    
    I heard they're casting Amy Fisher as Tonya Harding.
    

    I was thinking the same thing, Walt.
    
    
    Spud

�    If damaging she has legal recourse no?? 
    
    Ah yes, the American solution -- take it to Judge Wapner.  Only problem
    is the courts can't give you an Olympic medal.  Money can't buy
    everything (it didn't get ND a football champeenship this year).
    
�    I don't want to hear no Alan Aldaesque/Marjorie Clapprood
�    weeping for po' Tonya. Ya know like she is a victim of her
�    upbringing so she ran with the wrong crowd etc. and look what
�    harm they done her. 
    
    Isn't this whole thing allegedly masterminded by her EX-husband?  Seems
    she was making a break from that bad crowd.  I guess you have to live
    with your mistakes for the rest of your life.  What letter(s) can we
    have Tonya walking around with for the rest of her life?  How about SM
    for stupid marriage?

    	Well, if Gilooly mastermined this thing, what's Tonya doing
    	riding around with the fella? The TV shot the other day showed
    	the two of them driving outa their driveway in a Lincoln, I
    	believe.
    
    	Scott

    
>    	Well, if Gilooly mastermined this thing, what's Tonya doing
>    	riding around with the fella? The TV shot the other day showed
>    	the two of them driving outa their driveway in a Lincoln, I
>    	believe.
    
    In spite of Mac's heartfelt defense and the general weeping going on in
    here, while not legally married the two have been back together for a
    few years now.  Same thing as marriage as pertains to this case...
    
    glenn
    

    if she knows whats good for her she would leave goolooloo right now!!
    Unless, she has something to do with this thing. Thats the only thing I
    can think of if shes still with him...and..if she leaves him and shes
    not guilty it could possibly save her career...
    
                       stig

    The news that money from Olympics and other Amateur sources has gone to
    pay for the hit has to be seriously damaging to her chances and may
    allow finally the Olympic group to deep six her (If for no other reason
    than that money is for Tonya's training expenses and misuse may be
    grounds for dismissmal).

US Figure Skating Association can recommend that Harding not be on the team.
Harding can then appeal to the USOC and maybe then to the IOC.
After that she can sue in court. By the time all that is done, the Olympics
may well be over. So if she gets a temporary injunction from a judge she
could very well go.

This is assuming she is not indicted for anything.

The Crazy Met

    Tcm,
    	My point was that USOC may not be able to touch her for anything
    related to the hit and the FBI/Police felony charges but may be able to
    make a move because of the misuse of funds, never even mentioning the
    assault.
    	Sort of like sending Al Capone to sing-sing for Income Tax fraud
    when criminal charges were not provable.
    
    	I saw something in glob about usoc having hands tied re. the actual
    crime.

but proving misuse of funds can be really tough especially if she made made
or was given money outside of what the USOC gave her.

The Crazy Met

    wow!!! this sounds like Whitewater...
    
                   stig

    Heard on the radio that Harding has distanced herself from Giloolly.
    They're no longer living together, but she still doesn't believe he had
    anything to do with it.
    
    					Steve

    yup...she says she wants to concentrate on her skating rather than
    goolooloo. This is the best thing that she can do for herself.
    
                        stig

    	On the slide, uh, er, drive in this morning the person inside
    	the radio 8-)> said that TH talked to the FBI for 10 hours
    	yesterday.
    
    	I wonder if that cut into her training?
    
    	Scott

10 hours! sheesh! what the heck could take that long.

The Crazy Met

    	Hmm...  After talking for 10 hours to the police Tonya decides to
    break all ties with her ex, again.  My guess is if the cops ever pin
    anything on her we'll be subjected to another battered spouse defense.
    Watching Harding stand there silent while her lawyer answers questions
    from the press reminds me of the classic gangster/mouthpiece scenes
    from mob trials past.
    
    				/Don

/er lots of folks let their lawyers do the talking in thes highly publicized 
cases.

The Crazy Met

    Given that what you say can be used against you in a court of law, I
    can see why they do.

    Authorities just issued a warrant for Gillooly's arrest.
    
    4 down, 1 to go??
    
    MikeL
    

    you think harding snitched on him....she must of told the story and
    nuthing but the story. your right its gonna make a great movie. they'll
    all be running to the bank except those who will be running to the
    slameroo...
    
                   stig

Now I know why they waited until they got all the info before they even talked
to Gilhooley. There is a law in Oregon that says if you bring somebody in for
questioning and he invokes the right to stay silent the only way to get  them
to testify is to  give them immunity...

So instead they got all the info from everybody else  and issued a warrent for 
 gilleygully to make sure that he couldn't get immunity....


Metz

Metz,

That Oregon law is called the 5th amendment. It applies in every part of
the US.

The Crazy Met

It used to be the 5th Amendment. Now, since our metric infusion, it's
called the 750ml Amendment.

TTom

    I think you're confused, TCM.  The 5th amendment doesn't guarantee that
    what you say can get you off, even if you were a party to the crime. 
    The 5th amendment says you have the right to keep your mouth shut.

Mac, from note .205

> There is a law in Oregon that says if you bring somebody in for
> questioning and he invokes the right to stay silent the only way to get them
> to testify is to  give them immunity...

All this law says is that you can keep your mouth shut. 
Reading comprehension 101 would help, Mac.

No, it's a state law that guarentees immunity if you are required to testify

Perhaps you should take the reading comprehension course TCM. 

When I wrote state law I meant state law. When I wrote guarenteed immunity I
meant guarenteed immunity.

Metz

Metz, I believe you it is an Oregon law. But ...

When congress wants someone to testify they HAVE to grant them immunity.
That means that a federal law is involved. No state can force a person to 
testify if it will incriminate them. I just don't see where the Oregon law
is different than this.

The Crazy Met

�All this law says is that you can keep your mouth shut. 
�Reading comprehension 101 would help, Mac.
    
    I comprehend fine, TCM.  The law goes beyond the 5th amendment when it
    promises immunity.

the AP reported it as a quirk in Oregon state law.

"Officials are hesitant to question him because of a twist in Oregon law. Under
state law a person can invoke his right of silence and, if compelled to give
testimony in a grand jury proceeding, or other investigatory proceeding can
receive immunity"

"We don't want to take that chance of him getting immunity,"Bradley said.

Actually all it does is offer a legal way for the state to compel you
to testify.

The Crazy Met

    You know what pisses me off about this?  I was watching the local news
    last night and they're interviewing Ted Kennedy.  He had spoken to Mrs.
    Kerrigan and she, of course, made it known how much she wanted the
    perpertrator(s) arrested.  So Ted says he made a call to a "high
    ranking" FBI official.  Next thing you know the Director of the FBI
    made a personal call to Mrs. Kerrigan, assuring her they were doing all
    they could.  Now, is this an absolute joke or what?  The girl got
    wacked on the leg with a baton!  It wasn't a gangland style murder or 
    anything.
    
    					Steve

    yeah but they were were thinking murder in the plot. it could of been.
    these guys are little nutty to even do what they did...
    
    ps. did anyone see the interview with i think (diane saywer) and the
    bodyguard last night??? he was telling pretty much everything...
    
    
    
                      stig

    
    HEad of the FBI ? Give me a F(*&^% break. Old Gin face has to get his
    licks in too, when will he go away ?

    FBI announced that no Federal charges will be filed.
    
    fwiw the bodyguard's statements are not enough to indict Harding. There
    has to be independent corroboration for his accusations.
    
    Grand jury met yesterday. DA announced that no indictments would be
    handed down until next week.
    
    If Harding is indicted the USOC has some chance of keeping her off the
    team. Legally they will have a battle unless she is convicted and that
    won't happen before the Olympics.
    
    The Crazy met
    

    
    I wonder how much this is costing the taxpayer ? 

>    FBI announced that no Federal charges will be filed.

This is significant for Harding.

If it's only state charges, most states have laws against requiring
marital partners to testify against one another.  (are they really
divorced?  that could be significant too).

However, federal charges would recognize no such thing.

'Saw

    Last I heard, they were divorced but living together again.
    

    Walt, she just kicked him out again this week for appearances sake.
    
    Did I mention that the hitman is from Arizona?

    How come when the swimmer ,Kimball, got SMASHED and KILLED a couple
    of people AND charged with V_H he was allowed to compete in the Olympic
    trails and Harding (if charged) will not be allowed to compete?
    
    
    REK

    re: .223
    
    Excellent question! One difference of course is that Kimball was not
    participating in the Olympics. Second difference he did not go out of
    his way to injure a competitor. That aside he was not convicted and
    therefore could particiapate. That is why I would bet that Harding will
    probably be at the Olympics. If she is later convicted they could in
    theory strip her medals and National championship (making Kwan a Nation
    champ at 13!)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    So TCM, Its OK to run down and kill a couple of by-standers while drunk
    out of him mind to compete in the Olympic trials but not OK to
    "alledgely" hurt a competetor and be in the Olympics....
    
    Does the Olympic Committee over see the trials?
    
    REK

    REK
    
    I did not say that. First I pointed out the differences. My conclusion
    is that without a conviction keeping Harding, just liek stopping
    Kimball from competing, is a very very tough call.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Sorry TCM, I tend to not read all the way through...
    
    REK

    What frosted me was while watching the end of Law and Order Wednesday
    night, Channel 7 cut into the ending to show with a news preview of
    Kerrigan getting out of her car.  Cut back to the closing credits of
    L&O.
    
    I'm almost to the point where I hope she goes medal-less in the
    Olympics just to shut the media up.
    
    Mark.

    what kind of pizza was she eating this time???
    
    re a couple back...plus Harding would have some nice law suits in hand
    if not indited and getting thrown off the team...
    
    stiggy

    	Not surprisingly folks are starting to hate Kerrigan for something
    she has absolutely no control over.  I figure that by the time the
    Olympics start there will be a Tonya Harding cult, similar to the one
    that wants to free Pam Smart.
    
    				/Don

To me, all the hype and coverage is almost as annoying as the recent spate
of what I call "weather panic".

You know, when there's a winter storm three days off all the weatherpeople
start getting nervous.  They send trailers across the screen that
say 

	Caution, there is a winter storm which might be big and might
	be bad and there's a chance, kinda sorta that it might be headed
	this way, and by the way, be sure to stay tuned to this station
	for all your storm needs because our Doppler Radar is better than
	anyone else's Doppler Radar even though it comes from the same
	place, and our Anchorwoman's chest looks better in a tight
	sweater than their anchorwoman does, in case you needed to know
	this.

I mean, I'm fed up with all of it.


We're not going to medal at all in the Limp-Ics, and then we're gonna
hear about it all the way to 1998.....

sigh,
'Saw

    She seemed pretty bent on what is "owed to her".  She was focused on
    one thing, how much money she is owed.  

    "...People work and get a pay check every week, I work hard a expect a
    paycheck at the end...".

    I hope she alienates all potential advertisers and endorsements with
    her classless response to this nastiness, regardless of her guilt to
    the action.  A no class, skater who clearly sees only herself, not one
    word of sorrow (even a fake attempt) to Kerrigan, only herself.  
    
    Not only is she one of the most unattractive and disproportioned skater, 
    she is a whiner.  (I think she has a terrible bod, for a figure skater)

    A spokesperson from the US Olympic did state that making the team is
    a **privilege**, and is not owed to anyone.  She also stated that a
    person can be denied acceptance on the team is it is felt they do not
    represent the nation as per some definition set forth by the
    committee...

    The body guard is also a fraud, and liar...  I do believe that Harding
    was an active participant of the "plan".  I use her actions, her mood,
    and her reactions as a basis for my opinion.  

    Should make about seven made-fer-tee-vee movies.

    _GSH_
                                                                   

>    I hope she alienates all potential advertisers and endorsements with
>    her classless response to this nastiness, regardless of her guilt to
>    the action.  A no class, skater who clearly sees only herself, not one
>    word of sorrow (even a fake attempt) to Kerrigan, only herself.  

On Imus this morning they had me rolling.  They said that while all 
potential advertisers are heading for the hills where she is concerned
she has just garnered a fat contract being a celebrity spokesperson
for The Club....


>    The body guard is also a fraud, and liar...  I do believe that Harding
>    was an active participant of the "plan".  I use her actions, her mood,
>    and her reactions as a basis for my opinion.  

He's living proof that someone, somewhere, was in the barn and wasn't
just feeding the cows....


>    Should make about seven made-fer-tee-vee movies.

Yeah....8^)                                                                   

    Globe had a blurb that Kerrigan called in to a cable TV talk show (some
    local Sports call in show) one night. The anchors were kind of stunned
    even after they verified it wasn't a hoax. The delicious part is that
    all those media folks were camped outside her home in the freezing cold
    while this was taking place.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Damn you, 'Saw, I just spit coffee out my nose all over everything with
    that darned "caw" statement!  ;-)
    
    _GSH_

 >   she has just garnered a fat contract being a celebrity spokespersonfor
 >   The Club....
    
    Dammit.  That's the second tie I've seen someone steal the line I put
    in here about a week ago.
    
    brews 

    It looks like the U.S. Figure Skating whatever will let Tonya be named
    to the Olympic Team.  I doubt the US Olympic organization will stop her
    either.  The reason is the threat of a law suit.
    
    I read an article somewhere about some Men's track star who was denied
    a slot on the team for some reason.  He sued, and three years later won
    a judgement for $75M.
    
    If I were on the board I would let her compete, but not provide any
    funding, no expenses, nothing !  I imagine it is very expensive to
    train, travel all over, buy meals, etc.  If the Olympic committee
    and all her sponsors (who could they be ?) cut off the money.....
    she is S.O.L.
    
    Either way she is a loser and will never make any endorsement money.
    She will fade into the woodwork very fast.  Her only possible source
    of money is Hollywood.
    

    1. Butch Reynlods won a 27M award against the IAAF
    
    2. If Harding is on the Olympic team
      A. The charter likely forbids different treatment for one athelete
      B. Even if A is not true, treatment like .237 suggest would probably
         lead to a law suit.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>      A. The charter likely forbids different treatment for one athelete

Not true, due mainly to the fack that each sport has its own way of
choosing its team. Some directly compete in a championship, like figure
skating did. Some have elimination trials. Some are appointed.

And each has its own ways of dealing with adding and subtracting team
members.

>    1. Butch Reynlods won a 27M award against the IAAF

This is where the real rub will happen. If'n they kick Harding off the
team afore she's found guilty of anything, then she'll be pretty much set
for life after the lawsuit.

TTom

One thing I've heard a couple of folks say on WFAN is that the USOC usually
defers to the US Figure Skating Association when it comes to the skaters,
so they will probably do that in this instance....


'sAw

    Ttom,
    
    what I meant was once an athelete is on the team (after Jan 31) and the
    USOC is completely in charge treating atheletes differently in terms of
    expenses, etc. may be against the charter.
    
    The Crazy met
    

�    Not only is she one of the most unattractive and disproportioned skater, 
�    she is a whiner.  (I think she has a terrible bod, for a figure skater)
    
    I didn't realize this was part of the judging criteria.  Is Burt Parks
    one of the US judges this year?

|�    Not only is she one of the most unattractive and disproportioned skater, 
|�    she is a whiner.  (I think she has a terrible bod, for a figure skater)
|    
|    I didn't realize this was part of the judging criteria.  Is Burt Parks
|    one of the US judges this year?

Bulltooties if it's not!  One of the main judging criteria is appearance.  
Judges call it "grace" or "elegance", but lets face, to win a woman HAS to 
be a babe...

=bob=

Guaranteed that if she weighs 400 pounds with pus-laden zits oozing all over
her greasy countenance, it don't matter if she can do a quadruple axel
followed by a flying camel, 1� gainer sitz-spin.   She won't make the
team.

No doubt about it....


'Saw

|Guaranteed that if she weighs 400 pounds with pus-laden zits oozing all over
|her greasy countenance, it don't matter if she can do a quadruple axel
|followed by a flying camel, 1� gainer sitz-spin.   She won't make the
|team.

Yabut she could sell for Digital (a la MrT).

>|Guaranteed that if she weighs 400 pounds with pus-laden zits oozing all over
>|her greasy countenance, it don't matter if she can do a quadruple axel
>|followed by a flying camel, 1� gainer sitz-spin.   She won't make the
>|team.
>
>Yabut she could sell for Digital (a la MrT).

Hahahahaha....  I'm rolling.

Yeah, I've seen a few like that, believe me....

I wonder what MrT would have to say about all this.....


'Saw

    Oh MrT would rally to Tonya..
    somehow he'd make the connection to Bob Knight and his beloved
    Hoosiers; unatractive, hardworking misunderstand, overachieving etc..
    
    MikeL
    
    

    >    Sorry TCM, I tend to not read all the way through...

    
>|Guaranteed that if she weighs 400 pounds with pus-laden zits oozing all over
>|her greasy countenance, it don't matter if she can do a quadruple axel
>|followed by a flying camel, 1� gainer sitz-spin.   She won't make the
>|team.


  That's gotta be a candidate for Image of the Year Award.

Can you imagina a 400 pounder in one 'a them flying camels, spinning at
a hunnerd miles an hour, sraying the front 5 rows with oozing puss?

 We'd start seeing everybody wearing big ol' plastic bags, kinda
like what they put on when Gallagher goes into his Sledge-O-Matic
routine.

 Yuck!

    RE:  .242  Oh-oh, PC police on the move...  ;-)

    O.K., let me rephrase so's to soothe any sensitive readers.

    As an Olympian:

    She is a good figure skater.   Period.  She has been mediocre and she's
    been great.  She (or Kerrigan) are certainly not "locks" for a gold.

    As a spokesperson for BRAND X:

    In terms of advertising endorsements, I feel she is a whiner and has
    nothing, regardless of her triumphs on the ice, coming to her in terms
    of big bucks.  I feel she has acted self centered and insensitive to
    the whole Kerrigan affair.  Now, with her hubby (she said a week ago
    the divorce should have never happened) costing her millions, I see 
    no indignation, no anger, certainly no offer of sympathy and condolence
    toward Kerrigan.  A classless bimbette who thinks she's entitled to a
    check.

    AFTER HER PRIME:

    As far as her looks figure in, I wouldn't go watch an ugly ice capade 
    queen.  Peggy Flemming, et al, were never homely...  Go "figure".

    _GSH_

>    The runner-up in the Kerrigan-less US championships was the 14 year old
>    Kwan girl. She's a little pixie. If we're to go by what you and Saw say
>    then some of the judges must be pedophiles. 

Take a look at Dick Button and tell me that there aren't alot of
weirdos in the world of figure skating.....

>  That's gotta be a candidate for Image of the Year Award.
>
>Can you imagina a 400 pounder in one 'a them flying camels, spinning at
>a hunnerd miles an hour, sraying the front 5 rows with oozing puss?
>
> We'd start seeing everybody wearing big ol' plastic bags, kinda
>like what they put on when Gallagher goes into his Sledge-O-Matic
>routine.

Oh man, thank god I wasn't eating a cheeseburger when I read this.

This is TOO funny.

On a serious note, my 7th grade math teachers face was so bad that
when he'd smile they'd pop and coat the bottom edge of his glasses.
I lost weight in 7th grade because that class was right before lunch
and I could never eat.

Plus, he was a Browns fan.....


'Saw

    Weirdos: See Boitano, Brian.
    

>
>    Weirdos: See Boitano, Brian.
>    

Or Scott "Gonna Fly Now" Hamilton....

>      The biggest weirdo is that Bowman the Showman. He looked like 
>     he was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. 

Who is Bowman the Showman?

>As for Dick Button,
>     what qualifies him as a "weirdo"? That he gets overly excited
>     about his favorite sport? Lot of weirdos in here then. Maybe,
>     it's that he sounds a tad effeminate? Let go of your hangups,
>     Beavis. Figure skating doesn't have the market cornered on 
>     strange characters. Ask Lance Rentzel. Or "Mad Dog" Ernie Holmes.

I dunno, he's just weird.  He's got a weird look in his eyes that
scares me.  And now with the beard, I don't know....

I never said figure skating had the market cornered on weirdos,
although I find it a little weird that someone would choose it
over hockey, but there are some weird ones there.....


'Saw

�Lot of weirdos in here then. 
    
    No arguments from me on this one.

Report on Imus this morning is that Portland, Ore. authorities say they
have enough to charge Tonya Harding.  They are waiting till they get it
air-tight however....

'Saw

     Why are they having the Winter Olympics so soon? Shouldn't they be in
    1996? Is it not every 4 years anymore?

they decided to stagger them so that summer and winter wouldn't be in the same
year....so they went 2 years inbetween last winter and this one...


Metz
 

     Right - next summer in '96, next winter after this on is '98.
    
    A radio station in SD wants to change where they are from Harding
    County to... well, you can figure out the rest...

    what did everyone think of tonya's state of the union address
    yesterday??? 
    
                   stig

    
    
    she is still lying
    

    
    	I really feel sorry for this girl.  Here she has worked since being
    	3 years old to get to this point.  Has been beaten by her mother
    	for not doing good enough.  Got mixed up with this bum and now is 
    	being considered guilty before all the facts are in.  I really
    	hopes she goes to the big event and wins the gold over Nance.  She
    	will probably not get many endorcements but at least she will have
    	had her chance.  
    
    	Now, Nance on the other hand is this woman who's parents have lots 
    	of money and she is making lots more for what?  She hasn't won
    	anything yet but still get all these endorcements.  Go figure.  
    
    	I guess this case goes right along with all the others that have
    	gone backwards.....ie:  Bobbitt...how can this woman get away with
    	what she did.  Do you think it have given anyone ideas?  Then there
    	is the Jackson deal.  You have enough money, do what you want.  Now
    	there are the two boys who kill their parents and say they did it
    	because they were abused.
    	
    	The list can go on and on.....
    
    		hw

    
    
    
    
           Anyone notice Bernie looks like Nancy with short hair?
    
    
    
    Chappy

    She just made the situation worse. How the heck can her lawyers allow
    her to talk like that...
    
               stig

    
    NK's parents did not have alot of money until NK started to ring in
    endorsements. She has since started to 'spread the wealth'. In speaking
    with some of the pro shop guys at the local rinks where she used to
    train, it was stated to me that NK's parents bet the fort on her career
    and it is paying off. Remember at the last Olympics ? Who won the gold ?
    It wasn't NK, but a Japanese American named Yamaguchi who got squat for
    endorsments and most people think that NK won it that year. To bad for
    Yamaguchi, but NK had her teeth fixed and now she is cashing in.
    Nothing wrong with that, I hope she makes millions. NK is no shoo in
    for the gold, as Harding is the better skater before this mess began. I
    personally hope that she is innocent (TH) and stomps on NK in the
    'pics. (I doubt Tonya is as pure as snow white, but this is a friggin
    mess and it will detract from other events that I would like to see) 
    
    Besides, Imus had it right when he called NK handsome.
    
    I sure hope the FBI devotes mega manpower to crack this here case. It
    would be a shame if TH gets away with it, but if the Feds want you,
    they will have you.
    
             	

>            <<< Note 155.268 by SALEM::STIG "for all have sinned" >>>
>                           -< I don't understand... >-
>
>    She just made the situation worse. How the heck can her lawyers allow
>    her to talk like that...
>    
>               stig

     Apparently she made similar comments to the FBI when she spoke with
     them about 9 days ago (several days after the event).  It appears that
     if she did nothing to plan or cover up the event, and did come forth
     with what she knew afterwards (even though delayed), that she has done
     nothing illegal.  Now whether or not she had nothing to do with it is
     something I care not to speculate about.

I knew I shouldn't have started readign Hal's notes again.

Kerrigan comes from a blue collar background, same as Harding.  Kerrigan's 
parents had their act together enough to support her in her quest for greatness.
Harding overcame her parents (or actually mother) in hers.  Don't hold it 
against Kerrigan that she came form a positive family background.  

From what I could see, both made extraordinay sacrifice to get where they are, 
and both have dedicated their lives to it.

I dunno what to believe.  Harding seeme straight up when she said that she was
wrong nto to report the incident, but then she planted "friends" to make excuses
for her that she feared abuse if she did.  I can't help but get the gut feeling 
that she is playing to the sympathies of the People-Magazine/Made-For-TV_Movie
crowd in the hopes of still coming through the thing smelling like a rose.

=Bob=

    
    Besides, if they had some real evidence she would have been cuffed by
    now. They are making it airtight so the USFSA doesn't get it's ass
    sued. This is getting good. What happeneds if TH is exonerated ?
    

> What happeneds if TH is exonerated ?

If she is not allowed to go to the Olympics and that happens the USOC will
be paying her millions.

Donna DeVerona (sp?) of ABC said that with the due process requirements that
the Skating Federation and the USOC have it would be very difficult to
have a hearing and resolve the issue before the Olympics.

Gilooly spent 11 hours with the DA and FBI yesterday. If they still haven't
cut him a deal then he must not be able to give them enough on Harding; if
that is the case and she really only knew about the plot after the fact
she should be alloed to go to the Olympics.

Kerrigan could really become the media darling by asking the USOC to allow
Harding to compete - imagine the tons of money that would bring.

The Crazy Met

    There is no justice today.  There are only lawyers who are better
    salespersons than others.  Look at the current Mike Tyson proposal.

The sad part is that this has overshadowed almost every other
aspect of the Olympics.  The bobsled team has been doing really
well, our hockey team has been working their asses off (down
in Middletown CT, btw) and I'm sure there are some real
competitors out there who have been all but forgotten because
of this.  

(And it's not like the Olympics is going to be any great rating
grabber either).

Now, wouldn't it make you all have thigh shuddering pleasure if
it came out that CBS pulled an NBC Dateline, and paid Gilloooooly
et al to do this, in an effort to get a ton of media attention
focused on this?

(What do you think /Don?  Is it possible?)

I'd have to get a BIG roll of Bounty if that was the case....


'Saw

What is the laste Tyson proposal?

back to the Olympics: Especially if Harding does go and she and Kerrigan
are competing for the Gold in the free skate CBS may very well get the
highest rating for a Winter Olympic ever! One exception may be the tape
of the US win over the Soviets in 1980 - this competition will also
be taped. Imagine the ratings if it was live in the US in prime time!

The Crazy Met

    
    Justice ? Ptooie. Off the subject a little, F*&^ the court system, it's
    worthless. Laywers, sure they share some of the blame, but the whole
    thing rots. The reason the did this  crime is because they felt they
    could get away with it and make some cash. Thats the problem, GET AWAY
    WITH IT. Not me, I'm not responsable. It was my youth, I was abused, A
    little rabbit told me to kill, WTF I had my truck stolen last year and
    they caught the little punks from Southie that did it. Some real nice
    white trash, that didn't deserve to be locked up, they deserved an old
    fashioned beating. I mean they were caught for cripes sake and let go.
    No restitution, no nothing, I even testified twice. I pity the fool who
    thinks he can cause property damage to me again and gets caught. Faith,
    nope, justice, even worse. You want something done, do it yourself.
    
    Sad thing is until restitution is made and jail time served as a result
    of your actions, forget it. It's a nice circle jerk that manifests
    itself.
    
    

    What I find really scary are the comments to the effect that since
    Harding is not considered visually pleasing she must be guilty.  One of
    the Boston DJs is spewing stuff like this.

    Re: Tyson
    
    Yeah Don King must need the spending money.  He wants Mike out fighting
    again.
    
    Re: Tonya
    
    She is a 2-bagger, but I've sensed she was involved from the start. 
    You just get a gut-feeling about certain things.  Sometimes those
    gut-feelings betray you, most of the time they don't.  I'd be shocked
    if she truly wasn't involved.  And her statement to the press yesterday
    seemed to do more damage than good.

I don't think Tonya's that bad...  Certainly better than Hillary.

=Bob=

    Agreed =Bob=.  Compared to Hillary, Tonya looks like Vanna White.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Justice ? Ptooie. Off the subject a little, F*&^ the court system, it's
>    worthless. Laywers, sure they share some of the blame, but the whole
>    thing rots. The reason the did this  crime is because they felt they
>    could get away with it and make some cash. Thats the problem, GET AWAY
>    WITH IT. 

  Truer words were never spoken. Recently, I just went through a 2 1/2 year
  ordeal of a police investigation and court appearances for a couple of
  dirt bags who robbed us. You won't believe the scumbags that are turned
  loose by out Legal system(note: I did not say justice system). After it was 
  all over, the detective told us about a punk he arrested for 26 burglaries
  worth about $90,000. After he got a 13 year sentence, the detective 
  interviewed him and he was devastated. He told the detective that he was
  caught 5 times for burglary as a juvenile and was let go every time. He
  said he didn't think anything would be done if he was caught.

  Yep, the message that the legal system sends out is that crime pays.

	Keith

    Bottom line to all this hooey; it's all being set up, she don't
    go, she sue.. it's the American way.
    
    MikeL
    

    Hey WATCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Hillary-Babe pust both of those skaters
    on thin ice when it comes to a beauty contest!!!!
    
    REK
    
    PS TH mom really helped TH cause lasted night with Connie Chung....

    
    Besides, I like TH's initials.8*)

what did TH's mom say to Connie Chung?

The Crazy Met

REK, I'm *really* starting to worry about you....

Have you had your eyes examined recently?

'Saw

    
    Hillary a babe ? WOuldn't take her to a rock fight. Bleeechhh.
    
    Any chance on team USA medaling in Hockey ?
    

  <<< Note 155.287 by USCTR1::KING "Cemeteries = Parks with nice stones..." >>>

  >  Hey WATCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Hillary-Babe pust both of those skaters
  >  on thin ice when it comes to a beauty contest!!!!
   
   Not really, she just appears to be attractive when she parks 
   her butt between Shalala and Reno.

   daryll

    
    I think the USA hockey team has a decent chance at medaling.  Would
    have been a lot better if two players had not decided to stay with NHL
    contracts instead...
    
    Marc
    

    
 >> Yep, the message that the legal system sends out is that crime pays.
    
    Damned right crime pays, look at what we pay
    Congressmen/Senators/politicians!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
>>REK, I'm *really* starting to worry about you....

>>Have you had your eyes examined recently?
    
    Saw, methinks he needs his HEAD examined more than his eyes.....
    
    JaKe
    

    or maybe REK is getting old and seeenile...
    
                   stig

It seems Mr. Gilooly is pleading guilty to some
sort of racketeering charge in return for a lighter 
sentence.  These guys are singin' their li'l heads off, huh?

Also, a desk clerk in Detriot(TM) is claiming that TH
asked for (and received) NK's hotel room number before
the assault.

It's intrusive and tawdry.
It's fun.
dr.a

Gillooly was supposed to have a news conference at 2:30 EST. Any word
on what was said?

The Crazy Met

>Gillooly was supposed to have a news conference at 2:30 EST. Any word
>on what was said?


	You gonna eat that?

Oops, wrong joke....


8^)

    Anybody see the tape fo the Austrian skier that was killed over the
    weekend????
    
    I just missed it but the paper here ran a few pics from the tape. 
    Seems she hit a timing device, lost her helmet, broke her neck and died
    shortly after being airlifted off the course.
    
    Other skiers were said to be blasting whoever was running the race,
    saying they used chemicals on the course to keep the snow form emlting,
    and it made the course extremely icy and dangerous.  The skier, whose
    name escapes me at this time, is survived by a 3 year old child.  
    
    JaKe
    

    
>Gillooly was supposed to have a news conference at 2:30 EST. Any word
>on what was said?
    
    He plea bargained, got 2 years in the slammer and a $100k fine, and
    will testify against Harding.  He implicated her when doing his thang
    in front of the judge.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    	Yabbut doesn't Oregon law have some weird clause that doesn't
    allow Gillooly to "implicate" her or some such twist?
    
    deen to wonk (tm)
    Kev
    

he may have given enough evidence that the police can now independently
verify.

If .302 has it right, it would appear that
Kwan will be in the Olympics and Bobeck will go as the alternate.
And Harding should be sent away for stooopidity. The odds that she would not
have gotten at least 2nd place at the US Nationals, assuming she didn't 
crash and burn, were incredibly small.

The Crazy Met

    TCM,
    	Heard on Imus this morning that Nike has kicked in 25k to pay for
    her defense
    	And Nancy K has signed with Reebok for an ad to be aired during
    Olympics
    	Just as Budweiser puts in a lot of money defending young America's
    right to swill (oops) drink beer we see other bastion's of freedom
    defending Tonya's right to make money for advertisers
    
    	And isn't Imus doing a lot of repeats these days

�    	Just as Budweiser puts in a lot of money defending young America's
�    right to swill (oops) drink beer 
    
    I realize you're an old timer, but do you really consider >21 year olds
    to be "Young America"?

    His lawyer is fielding questions at the conference.  Sounds like they
    have lots of evidence, and even have her only 2 possible defenses taken
    care of: home along excuse, and the abuse alibi.

    Mac,
    	I consider < 35 still prime of life.
    
    	And Bud etal know that oceans of their beer are consumed by < 21
    
    35 is generally when the biggest decisions are made such as
    
    
    
    	What beer to stick with (and perhaps what gal too)
    

    Does anyone else think that the two (Harding and Gillooly) are up to it
    again, by giving the cops just enough dirt for them to indict her, thus
    opening the door for the USOC to boot her off the team?  This would
    allow them to sue the collective asses off the USOC ala Butch Reynolds.
    Reynolds tested positive for something illegal, yet still won a $27
    million lawsuit.  She could stand to reap more money via a lawsuit, than 
    she would if she were to stay on the team.
    
    Then lo and behold, the two would reconcile once again.
    
    					Steve

I'm still amazed that this group of people with a collective IQ of about 12
thought that they could get away with this. I guess it's because their
collective IQ is 12 that they thought they could

The oregon law is that they need independent confirmation of anything that
conspirators say trying to implicate each other...

Metz

The 25K that Nike was donating was on the news last night.

re .309: if she is eventually not convicted of anything then the USOC could 
be in deep trouble if they kick her off the team. A problem with your 
hypothesis is that it would take too much intelligence too cook this plot 
up and so far these folks have rivaled Beavis & Butthead in sheer incompetence 
and stupidity.

If she is not convicted (which she won't be by the Olympics) the USOC's best
bet is to let her compete and then strip any medals she might win if she
is convicted.

The Crazy Met

>    Reynolds tested positive for something illegal, yet still won a $27
>    million lawsuit.  She could stand to reap more money via a lawsuit, than 
    
    that's currently in the court of appeals, but he should still get a
    major chunk of that $27M.
    
    I can't believe they were dumb enough to attack Kerrigan at the rink. 
    Obviously, it takes someone with credentials to get down to the tunnel.
    They could've hired some junkie to do it and blame it on Detroit crime.

Reynolds claimed that the whole process leading to the test was so flawed
that there was no way to figure out if it was his sample that was tested
or someone elses. Most of the places he appealed to, before getting to
the IAAF, agreed with him. After the IAAF refused to let him back he
sued in the courts and they also agreed with him.

The Crazy Met

    heerd that Gilooly's part in convicting TH will just be one piece of
    the puzzle.  Evidently they gots lots more dirt on TH linking her to
    masterminding this thang than just ol Jeffy boy's testimony.
    
    JaKe
    

    Yup,
    I really believed Nike's president when he said that in America
    a person is innocent until proven guilty and he felt morally
    bound to donate the caish to her defense. Yup.
    
    And everytime someone mentions this mess, someone else will
    mention how altruitic and morally superior those Nikeites are.
    Yup.
    
    MikeL
    

    re: the skiing mishap...
    
    Save for perhaps Theisman's knee injury or Herb Score getting domed off
    of McDougal's liner back to the mound, the most disturbing video
    footage I've ever seen. A real tragedy as she left a 4 year old
    daughter.
    
    Mark.

        If TH is officially charged with conspiracy and all that other stuff
    then would she be allowed to leave the country after she makes bail?
    I thought that part of the bail guidelines that you were not allowed to
    leave the country....

    The Skier that died. As a former Ski instructor, Ski Racer and ski
    patrol I feel I can speak a little on this subject. The tape is not
    clear enough for officials to see where she hit her head. The woman
    downhillers have been complaining for years the the DH courses were
    not tough enough or challenging. Infact, the women got the Olympic
    downhill moved to the mens course. DH is a dangerous sport and the tape
    we all saw shows why..

    REK

>        If TH is officially charged with conspiracy and all that other stuff
>    then would she be allowed to leave the country after she makes bail?
>    I thought that part of the bail guidelines that you were not allowed to
>    leave the country....

A lawyer in WFAN yesterday said that is pretty much up to the judge.
She's hardly a flight risk -- as Howie Rose said (was it Howie on with
Susan Waldman yesterday afternoon?) "what's she gonna do, seek asylum
in Lillehammer?"

It's possible that she could be allowed to leave the country and compete.

Lots was made of the fact that the onus is now squarely on the USOC to
make a decision, and in a sense they're damned if they do, damned if they
don't......


'Saw

    
    a few back.
    
    I believe Nike is donating to her defense because they are out of
    Beaverton, Oregon (next town over from Portland) and that it is at a
    rink in Beaverton that TH did most of her early training.  I think they
    gave the money because of the local affliation, not because they were
    trying to appear altruistic.  Besides, someone's got to give her some
    support, the desire to nail her is so great that I don't believe she
    can get a fair shake (and, IMHO, Gilooloo is such a slimball that his
    implicating her for a reduced sentence doesn't mean a whole lot).
    By the way, I thought Gilooloo's lawyer was way out of line at that
    press conference, he was acting like prosecutor, judge, jury, and the
    USOC, what ever happened to due-process?
    
    

    
    
    	Yabbut mark my word, this will be mentioned sometime during the
    games!
    
    	Apparently in some small town about 60 miles from the 'Pic game
    site, there really is some lady named Lilly Hammer.  According to an
    unnammed source (I know who but I won't say who), Lilly is planning on
    hosting her own Lilly Hammer Olympics.
    
    That's about it
    
    I remain,
    waiting for the Lilliputten games - I'll fit right in. Right Gulliver?
    ;^)
    Kev
    

    
    Re the downhill tragedy.
    
    Now that the courses are challenging enough a little twist is added and
    that is a greater risk for injury/death. If in fact it was a problem
    with the course then it should be dealt with. If not shut up or put up.
    Being involved in racing it gives you a different outlook when
    something like this happens, and 98% of the time it is due to
    driver/racer error. 
    
    She knew the risks of the sport and payed the ultimate price, but all
    competitors know this once they are on the starting grid.
    
    

    What Nike says publicly and what my interpretation of their real
    intent are opposite polls. Nike did this for business reasons even
    though it's only 25K which in itself is fine; don't add the
    hypocrital moralistic hooey. 
    
    JMHO
    MikeL
    

�    By the way, I thought Gilooloo's lawyer was way out of line at that
�    press conference, he was acting like prosecutor, judge, jury, and the
�    USOC, what ever happened to due-process?
    
    That's pretty much what Good Morning America/WCVB's legal editor said
    this morning.

    	I think the skater was Ulrica Maier, or something close to
    	that.
    
    	One of the newscasts here said it was a Super G race, not
    	downhill. That seemed incorrect, given the speed she was
    	traveling down the slope.
    
    	Scott

From one of the news stations last night: A bigwig in the ABA Defense
Attorney division basically said that as a defense attorney Gilooly's
lawyer should know that what he said was completely unacceptable.

The Crazy Met

>From one of the news stations last night: A bigwig in the ABA Defense
>Attorney division basically said that as a defense attorney Gilooly's
>lawyer should know that what he said was completely unacceptable.

He knew full well that what he said was unacceptable, but I'd be
my paycheck that he was simply trying to sway public opinion.

Even if you figure you're of average intelligence, that means that half
the people are dumber than you, so you know that a bunch of people probably
took what he said at face value.....

That's my cut at it.....


'Saw

Sure he was trying to sway public opinion. so what!

The Crazy Met

>Sure he was trying to sway public opinion. so what!

Oh.

NO big deal.  I was just responding to the fact that it seems some
folks couldn't get over the fact that a lawyer would do something like
ignore due process etc etc in his comments.

I mean, the guy's a LAWYER -- that should say it all 8^)

    RE skier,
    
    I heerd she was only doing 60 when the mishap occured(I cain't imagine
    doing 60mph  with nothing between me and the earth but a set of
    skies)but that the course was not in the world's most skiable
    condition, partly because of the chemicals they used on the snow.
    
    The skier's child's father has pledged to sue the organizers of the
    event.
    
    JaKe
    

It's common practice to salt a course down if the weather is warm. This makes
the course firmer.  It's even done in my recreational racing league toward the
end of the season.

The racer always has the option of not running the race if they feel it's
unsafe. There have been boycotts in the past when a group decides that a course
isn't safe for racing and more often than not the officials relent.

Yes, it's a tragedy. Yes, I feel sorry for her child. However the only reason
they have for a lawsuit is either equipment failure or they are taking issue of
where the timing stand was placed. 

Metz  
who wanted to go skiing today but was fogged in at home....

	I have the real story in this Tonya Harding mess.  First, CBS hired 
Shawn Eckhart to mastermind this whole thing.  CBS knew it was going to 
take a beating in the Winter Olympics and needed to drum up interest for 
the February SnoozeFest.  Eckhart convinced Gillooly and Harding that since 
Tonya was such a beast to Nancy Kerrigan's beauty she would never stand a 
chance in a "sport" like figure skating.  Once convinced Eckhart was right, 
Harding and Gillooly plotted to take out Kerrigan.  The irony is that 
Kerrigan knew of the impending attack (she played out the victim role 
convincingly, although the "why me" shriek was a bit much) and was promised 
mucho endorsement dollars if she went along.

	Of course CBS really didn't want Kerrigan hurt (or Harding arrested 
for that matter) so they needed somebody simple enough to be the willing 
pawn.  Enter a stupid bodybuilder, the perfect foil.  The real club was 
actually in the grassy knoll while the one used on Kerrigan was rubber.  
Much as CBS had hoped, this story has grabbed considerable national 
attention and when Harding is allowed to skate in the Olympics she and 
Nancy will be seeded #1 and #2.  The rest of the skaters might as well go 
see the Norwegian sights (if there are any), because CBS will not be 
denied the WWF good versus bad skateoff in their Olympics.

				/Don

�CBS knew it was going to 
�take a beating in the Winter Olympics and needed to drum up interest for 
�the February SnoozeFest.  
    
    And here's where your whole conspiracy theory falls apart, /Don. 
    Figure skating always grabs great ratings and has been named as the #1
    spectator sport in at least 2 recent national polls.

You forgot the part about the Space Aliens /Don, and about Chuck Connors
and the Marine.

You're slipping.......


'Saw

great chronology of the way this attack was bungled.

Stant flew to Boston. Went to rent a car and discovered he forgot
his credit card. Checked into the hotel at Logan under his own name.
His credit card arrived by mail after 2 days. He then rented a car
and drove out to a motel near Stoneham. Got there, checked in under
his own name and discovered that Kerrigan had already left for Detroit.
Returned the car, went to take Amtrak to Detroit and missed the train.
Eventually got to Detroit by bus. Had trouble getting a rental car
in Detroit because his credit card was over its limit. Checked in to
a motel under his own name. Carried out the attack. Checked out of the
motel, and only on the flight back to Portland used an alias.

The Crazy Met

I heard this morning that Nancy Kerrigan stands to earn about $10 mil
in commercial endorsements as a result of her increased popularity
due to the assault.

Jerry

and the millions that are being talked about are whether or not she
wins the Gold medal. A Gold medal multiplies that figure.

The Crazy Met

Wouldn't it be a pissah if they were both in it together?

�I heard this morning that Nancy Kerrigan stands to earn about $10 mil
�in commercial endorsements as a result of her increased popularity
�due to the assault.

	I'm so surprised.

				/Don

�I heard this morning that Nancy Kerrigan stands to earn about $10 mil
�in commercial endorsements as a result of her increased popularity
�due to the assault.
    
    Makes sense.  This incident and the media coverage it has received have
    pretty much made Nancy Kerrigan a household name.  Instant name
    recognition means big bucks to sponsors.

Didja ever notice that Nancy gets this kind of 

	"doe-dee-doe-dee-doe, dum-dee-dum-dee-dum"

look on her face a lot?  Kind of like someone who's clueless?

I just noticed that last night on the news.  My guess is that she's not
going to be building any rockets in the near future.....


'Saw

    Did anyone hear that they may re-open the case of Harding's murdered
    brother?  Seems he was involved in a hit-and-run accident soon after
    Tonya told Gilooloo that he was abusing her.

    please!!! will the real hit-man please stand up???

    Gawd!  What a great soap opera this is.  Last night on the news I heard
    Kerrigan's mother state that Nancy would really enjoy following
    all of this if it wasn't about her.  It's fun until you're in the
    middle of it (although, as already mentioned, NK will pocket some major
    cash for her troubles).  I bet Tonya wishes she was watching instead of
    participating.
    
    

FBI has confirmed that Harding made the calls to find out where Kerrigan
practiced. Also She was IDed by a hotel worker as the person trying to get
Kerrigan's room number. Plus she has been caught in several lies about her
story.

Did  anybody else read SI this week and the little blurb on figure skating
judges. Quite humerous IMO. In the 1988 Olympics the only change from the
initial seedings of the ice dancers was a swap  of 14th and 15th place...
Six of the judges were suspended (and later re-instated) for predetermining the
standings.

Why bother having the competition if the outcome is predetermined?


Metz

Fred Imus, Don's brother, said that when Warren Moon came back from
having injured ribs, lots of lineman aimed for his ribs when tackling
him, trying to get him back out of the game.

He said that now that figure skating has that element it could become
a real sport.....8^)


'Saw

    I was thinking about this the other day.  You go back to when the
    Giants were purposely going after MacMahon with intent to injure. 
    That's true of many situations in football and hockey.  Somehow though,
    it falls in the context of the game and seems forbidden from outside
    law on assault.  If someone went up to another person on the street and
    whacked them with a hockey stick, they'd get arrested - provided they
    were caught and prosecuted.  Yet in the sports arena it's deemed ok, at
    least there isn't anything done about it in most cases.
    
    
    Spud

Maybe we ought to start a movement to make figure skating a contact
sport.  Hell, there's probably even a Miller Lite commercial in this.

Jerry

>    I was thinking about this the other day.  You go back to when the
>    Giants were purposely going after MacMahon with intent to injure. 

Well, Spud, let's not single that one out.   8^)

There's a novel written by a DL from the Falcons, and a buddy of mine
in here read it.  He was telling me that one of the major premises
of the book is that every hit in football is made with the intent
to cause as much pain and injury as possible.



>    That's true of many situations in football and hockey.  Somehow though,
>    it falls in the context of the game and seems forbidden from outside
>    law on assault.  If someone went up to another person on the street and

I think it exists in other sports too.  You want to let the guy know
you're there.  

How often have you been playing ball and had an infielder not fielding
the ball standing in the basepath and how many times have you gone around
him?  How many times have you gone over him to send a message?

Pete Rose hitting any catcher at the plate was designed to send a
message -- and perhaps make them flinch the next time.


It is strange that as long as those things are done in the context of The
Game society doesn't frown on it.  

I suppose you could make a case that humans are by nature agressive animals
and that our games have replaces the hunter/killer urges that we sometimes
have -- violence in a controlled atmosphere is okay, whereas out on the
street, unchecked, it isn't.....


T'is the stuff that theses are made of.....


'Saw

�It is strange that as long as those things are done in the context of The
�Game society doesn't frown on it.  
    
    Try telling that to the NHL, MLB (remember the big outcry of
    basebrawl?), the NBA (look at the stiffer fighting penalties.
    
    Not too long ago a Boston mayor (Flynn?) threatened to send cops onto
    the ice to arrest NHL goons.

>    Try telling that to the NHL, MLB (remember the big outcry of
>    basebrawl?), the NBA (look at the stiffer fighting penalties.

And try taking that away from the fans and see how far it gets.

Nobody give a shit about fighting in hoops because the Linda Evans vs
Joan Collins fights in Dynasty were closer to real fighting than the
hissy-fit slapfests those genetic mutants have in hoops.

Baseball had problems because the incidents rose sharply in a short
period of time, plus all those millionaires got to be really nancy-boys
who couldn't take the heat inside.

Hockey should continue to have fighting.  Period.

    
>    Not too long ago a Boston mayor (Flynn?) threatened to send cops onto
>    the ice to arrest NHL goons.

Yeah, he threatened.  And do you know what would have happened had he
carried through with it?   They couldn't have poured enough cops into the
Garden quick enough to quell the riot.


There was a very interesting Time Machine episode about a month ago that
dealt with the gladatorial games of Ancient Rome.  What was interesting
is that after 2000 years, folks still wanna see blood and gore, but they're
less open about wanting to see it.  

Human beings have a natural curiousity about death and stuff like that,
and it can't be totally repressed....


'Saw

    
    re.  Basketball hissy-fit slapfights
    
    	I'll betcha Rudy Tomjanovich would argue with that!  :*)
    
    	He of the caved in face........
    
    Claybone

    	Claybone,
    
    	Who hit Rudy T? I wanna say Kermit Washington. That punch
    	was no slap (in the face). 'Course, it didn't help that
    	Rudy T was running toward/past KW when the punch was
    	thrown. Lots of momentum. It's a wonder KW didn't break
    	his hand or wrist.
    
    	Scott

yup it was Kermit Washington

When did the FBI become a private dick for the USFSA?

Since when does the FBI "share" files on an ongoing 
investigation with a private group?

daryll

did the FBI do that? I thought the USFSA folks were going to go to
Portland. When the authorities told 'em that they would not be given 
any non-public information they cancelled their trip.

The Crazy Met

    
    
    	Yabbut no mention that the IOC has put Tonya and Nancy together for
    practive times??????
    
    	What a bone head move (or was it CBS's decision? Naw, couldn't be).
    
    Do ya think CBS would get any calls from the soap box tee vee crowd
    if'n they pre-empted "as the woild turnsn" to show the practice
    sessions?
    
    I remain,
    absolutely convinced I'll not watch
    Kev
    

According to the press conference they held Saturday, they had 
been going over the files the FBI had on the case.

>    
>    	Yabbut no mention that the IOC has put Tonya and Nancy together for
>    practive times??????
    
Jeff Greenfield, on Imus this morning said that Tonya should show up with
a rifle -- then just say she's on the biathalon team.  That would be 
funny.

From all the news I've been hearing though, the funniest part of this whole
thing is that Kerrigan, who's going to get a massive sympathy vote for her
po' po' knee, is not even favored to win gold.  Nor is Harding.  These two
ladies could definitely finish in 5th and 6th place, and this would all
be for naught.  And would I laugh.

I'd laugh even harder if Kerrigan was in on the whole thing too.....8^)

yabbut, won't Carol be controlling the remote??

ISU (International Skating Union??) has skaters from the same country
practice at the same time. They claim they only want a media circus at
one practice session not at 2. Nonetheless, a bonehead decision.

The Crazy Met

re: .359

yabbut Kerrigan would still get endorsements.

The Crazy Met

             
> yabbut Kerrigan would still get endorsements.
    
    This fact just keeps coming back to bug the hell out of people, huh?
    Who cares?  So far I've seen a couple of Campbell's soup commercials,
    and if the past is any guide after the Olympics we'll see a few
    commercials for about three weeks and then Kerrigan and the rest of the
    skaters will forever disappear into their niche markets.  It doesn't 
    begin to approach the mainstream hype of athletes from pro hoops/
    football/baseball...
    
    This saga sure is receiving a lot of attention from people who claim
    they don't care... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

It could be as bad as the Mary Lou Retton gag-fest we had
back then....

I mean, I think if I saw that Super Charged commercial one 
more time, I'd have taken a rifle myself and hunted her down....8^)


This whole thing is pretty funny.  I bet Kerrigan was involved, and
after doing some jail time Harding will get a "split" of the
endorsement profits....  Yeah, that's the ticket....


'Saw

re: .362

Glenn, I actually wasn't  complaining. Just stating a fact.
Far as I'm concerned if she can rake in the bucks, good for her.

The Crazy Met

    
    
    	Yabbut since I listen to the radion a lot at home, ya just can't
    escape from a lot of this.
    
    	Anyway, I heard the day before yesterday that NK has been signed by
    at least 3 major sponsors.  The only $$$ figure I remember was $450K
    but I did remember the announcer saying that NK is now the wealthiest
    skater ever to compete in the 'pics.
    
    	Soo, Craze, it seems she's raking in the $$$.  Happy?
    
    I remain,
    probably gonna rake in the snow thisted PM  :^(
    Kev
    

    
>     Obviously, the people that it bugs the hell out of. Nancy Kerrigan was
>     just an Olympic bronze medalist before this incident. Now, she stands to
>     rake in more dough than any figure skater in history. And for what? Not
>     because she's a great skater but because she was lucky (?) enough to be
>     the target of a pack of half-wits. Now, we've got a book about Nancy and
>     the soup commercials are in heavy rotation and Reebok is pushing her heavy
>     although the connection between figure skating and sneakers escapes me.
    
    All of which is the product of those starved for the gossip that the
    tabloid media gladly provides, and not any special action which Kerrigan 
    has undertaken.  Far as I can tell, the grave concern over the
    attention she'll get and the amount of money she's going to make just 
    amounts to jealousy, same as with the other professional athletes that
    we love to hate, except in this case because we're talking about a
    "sport" that appeals more to females that we personally might not be
    interested in, it's somehow worse the assault of show commercials by
    the hoops players.  If people (in general) didn't want to see Kerrigan's 
    face after the Olympics, they wouldn't get it.  The marketers aren't
    stupid. 
    
    I don't even know if I'll watch any of the Winter Olympics much less
    the figure skating (none of it holds much appeal at all), but I don't
    have any good reason to want to see Kerrigan fail.  I hope she does win
    the gold...
    
    glenn
    

>  I hope she does win the gold...

I am sure there is a very rational reason for that (.5 :-)

The Crazy Met

    
> I am sure there is a very rational reason for that (.5 :-)
    
    Sure there is.  All things being equal (like the athlete isn't a
    complete jerk) most Americans like to see the American athletes do
    well.  I'm not talking about support with fanatical nationalistic 
    flag-waving fervor thrown in, just in general...
    
    glenn
    

for the same reason you could also root for Harding to win the goal.

Actually it would be great to see Harding win the gold - of course the
judges would never allow that to happen. She would have to skate much better
than anyone else to even have a chance at the Bronze medal.


The Crazy Met

> for the same reason you could also root for Harding to win the goal.
    
    I would, if (personal opinion alert) I thought that there was even a
    remote chance that she is innocent in this affair...
    
    glenn
    

    
    
    	Yabbut just to change the subject.  Did anybody else happen to see
    the tee vee commercial advertising that the OC is looking for kids
    9-12 to begin luge training?  They even posted some 800 number to
    call.  I was half occupied with something else and didn't really get it
    all.
    
    I remain,
    wondering if this begins a new era in USA Olympic involvement
    Kev
    

    Maybe you shoulc call, Kev, put on one of yer baseball caps, a tight
    pari of underwear to lift the voice a little, and with yer size, ya
    might be able to pass fer a 9-12 year old.
    
    JaKe
    

Nancy Kerrigan has signed on to guest host Saturday
Night Live on March 19 (presumably with or without medal).
They should have some fun with the Tonya story, huh?

dr.a

>     No hoops player, save Michael Jordan and Shaq, has ever gotten 
>     this kind of exposure, and Michael was the best player on the planet and 
>     Shaq has a freak factor from smashing all those backboards. All Nancy has
>     done is take a whack on the leg. By those standards Rodney King should be
>     a billionaire.
 
    I believe that 95% of the exposure that you are referring to *thus far*
    has been involuntary.  That's the distinction I'm making.  Kerrigan has
    no control over the media horde camped at the bottom of her driveway, 
    nor the talkshow buzz, nor the around-the-clock news coverage.  That
    she doesn't "deserve" such attention is quite likely a sentiment
    that she agrees with 100%, that she'd just as soon not have at the
    moment.  I can't blame a seemingly decent, hardworking athlete because 
    she happened to be the unwitting subject of this bizarre story that 
    won't go away.  I hope it goes away as much as anyone else, but not by 
    wishing that Kerrigan crashes into the boards at the Olympics or 
    something like that.
    
    Sure Kerrigan is ultimately going to capitalize on this attention, and
    I'll reserve judgment on how tastefully it's done until that time.  So 
    far I haven't seen much that she's been responsible for that's turned 
    my stomach, and actually think she's behaved pretty graciously, more
    graciously than the average athlete besieged by the media pack.  To
    tell you the truth, I was kind of surprised by the SNL acceptance,
    because that'll be an opportunity to poke some fun and be poked at
    that doesn't fit with the ice queen image (she certainly doesn't need
    to do this).  But whereas most people loved Charles Barkley punching 
    out Barney and having some fun with it, no doubt the cynics will be
    appalled that as a celebrity Kerrigan would go on a comedy program and
    do the same...
    
    glenn
    

>     in the last Olympics. No one but Dick Button can name a previous third
>     place finisher. And now the girl is everywhere. She won't be gone three 

      Debi Thomas, the U.S. hope in 1988.

 FWIW, Kerrigan was doing Campell Soup commercials before she was attacked.
 Also before she was attacked, I saw an article that figured if she medaled
 at the olympics she'd make about 10 million in endorsements, 20 million if
 she brought home the gold........

 Personally I have nothing against either skater but I'd like to see them
 throw Toyna off the team so that little 13 old pixie could get under
 Tommy's skin just a bit....

 ;^)

I think SNL was March 12.

The Crazy Met

�    	Yabbut no mention that the IOC has put Tonya and Nancy together for
�    practive times??????
�    
�    	What a bone head move (or was it CBS's decision? Naw, couldn't be).
 
    The way I heard it was that practice times are alloted for each team. 
    That is, the U.S. has a practice time, Sweden has a practice time,
    Russia has a practice time, etc.  The decision that was made was to
    make the U.S. team adhere to this policy and not grant special favors
    to Kerrigan.

�      Bo Jackson played two professionla sports quite well and could have
�      ranked with the best running backs ever if he chose to concentrate on 
�      that. 
    
    I think a hip injury had more to do with that than him playing
    baseball.
    
�He certainly doesn't deserve to be lumped in with also-ran Nancy
�      Kerrigan.
    
    Also ran?  A bronze medal holder and best skater in the U.S. is an also
    ran?

    Times are tough when finishing 3rd in the Olympics rates you_a
    "also-ran".  Sadly this is a typical America reaction to SPORTS,
    where finishing FIRST, winning the GOLD, is all that matters.  
    
    Nobody remembers who came in 2nd, nobody cares.  It's the winning that's 
    the thing, not the competing.  
    
    Sad.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

coming from a UNC and Smiffy fan that attitude is hardly surprising.

The Crazy Met

hahahahaha .386 is precious.

So you are basically admitting that UNC and Smiffy choke in the big ones and
you need to console yourself with the "competition is the thing."

heh heh

The Crazy Met

Actually I think that Kerrigan was one of the gold medal favorites for this
years olympics. yup, she was lousy in the last world championships but
finishing so poorly supposedly lit a fire under her butt to actually go out and
do some serious practice time. It seems like Nancy used to  just  slough around
a lot in practice and not work as hard as many of the other skaters. She was
reportedly skating the best she ever had before the incident....and since we
all know that reputation counts as much in the judging world as actual
performance she had a very good shot at winning the gold even before the hype...

What's unfortunate is that this country is so law-suit aware that an obviously
guilty Harding will most likely be allowed to skate in the olympics for fear of
the presiding committees getting sued....

Dorothy Hamill has made over $100 million off her olympic gold medal...Sonya
Henny (sp) made almost $250 million off of hers....

Metz

re: that an obviously guilty Harding 

so I guess we forget about due process and convict people based on
assumptions. You may not agree with the safeguards that are buil in
to the system, but they do exist and until that changes it is not
fair to use a different set of rules with Harding.

The Crazy Met

> so I guess we forget about due process and convict people based on
> assumptions. You may not agree with the safeguards that are buil in
> to the system, but they do exist and until that changes it is not
> fair to use a different set of rules with Harding.
    
    In the interests of putting a cap on this rathole I restrained myself, 
    but initially I was going to say that someone (Metz) finally had
    exercised some common sense and reached the correct conclusion of what
    all this USOC hand-wringing is really all about.  Just from what 
    Harding has already admitted to (concealed knowledge of this plot by 
    her associates as the USFSA was deliberating her teammate's fate in the 
    Olympics-- never mind the piles of circumstantial evidence implicating
    her even further, without necessarily having committed a crime), she 
    should be disqualified.  Unfortunately, currently in this country common 
    sense runs secondary to the fear of what a particular jury on a particular 
    day might think.  Personally, based on the evidence and that Olympic 
    contract she signed, I think the USOC has every legal right to boot
    her, and should have the courage to do so and to fight it out in court, 
    if necessary.
    
    glenn
     

Glenn,

But Metz was not talking about the USOC's right to hold an administrative
hearing and base the decision on something other than criminal actions.
A statement of obvioulsy guilty sure sounded like guilty of a criminal offense.
I could be mis-interpreting that statement, but I don't think so. Metz??

fwiw when the USFSA was deliberating over putting Kerrigan on the Olympic
team Harding claims she had no knowledge of anything wrt to the attack.

The lawsuit threat certainly has an effect, but it is also making the
USOC think twice before making a decision and that is not bad.

The Crazy Met

I think she's obviously guilty as far as  the USOC charter is concerned and
should be booted off the team. I'd never deny her due process as far as
criminal charges go. The fact of the matter is that she has publicly admitted
enough to justify booting her off the team but all the governing bodies as too
afraid of law suits to do the right thing and chuck her off the team.

The US figure skating body has already stated that she has done enough to be
booted but scheduled administrative action in 30 days which is after the
Olympics to weasel their way out of taking any action on the matter. As fine an
example of CYA as I've seen (even inside of DEC).

Personally I'm 100% convinced by the FBI evidence, Gilgully's statements,
Harding's own admissions and the blowhard Eckhardts testimony to say she's
guilty of a crime but I'm not on the grand jury. I think that only the most
blinded Harding supporters think she wasn't involved enough to get her booted
off the team....

No wonder the courts are clogged,

Metz

Metz, actually the USFSA scheduled a hearing and under their by-laws
Harding has 30 days to appear. So their hands were tied by their own
rules.  They might have been able to ask for a hearing earlier than they did
but 30 days before Feb 23 would have been tough.

The Crazy Met

In some perverted sort of way I'd like to see Harding go to the games and get
booed to all hell by a crowd that won't even let her hear her music. I'd like
to see her skate off in tears devestated and then maybe she'd understand a
little bit about what sportsmanship is.

Instead of roses maybe the crowd can throw dead fish on the ice...

Metz


 

The USOC may very well decide on 2/15 to not let Harding compete. If they
do so, Harding will likely file an appeal in a US court. US courts are
very quick to grant injunctions. USOC would be bound by a US court's decision.

Come to think of it the USOC could really take the easy way out (brilliant
if I say so myself):

They could vote to remove Harding from the Olympic team, but delay that
removal until Harding exhausted all her appeals. By the time that happened
the Olympics would be over and Harding would have skated. USOC could not
be sued. If Harding wins a medal they could eventually strip it.

re: Harding winning a medal

If she does compete, the odds that she will win a medal are definitely
astronomical. All the other contenders would have to fall flat on their 
backsides for that to happen.

> Kwan kid really deserves to go but won't.

She will be in Norway as an alternate. Keep in mind that there were only 2 
spots on the team. Kerrigan and Harding were odds-on-favorites to be on
the team. So it would be nice if Kwan got to compete, but "deserves?" I don't
agree.

The Crazy Met

    I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the team skating together is an
    Olympic tradition that the USOC chairman said would not be broken.

Nope, the ISU won't allow the tradition to be broken. USOC was more
than happy to accomodate the request that Harding and Kerrigan skate
at different practice sessions.

The Crazy Met

    SI (btw I hear this weeks issue has some good basketball writing,
    perhaps I'll shell out some cash) echoed my earlier point about
    "misuse of money".  But only hard evidence which th cannot give a
    convincing rebuttal for should be used - nothing in the gildickart
    testimonies.  I mean, the misuse of $ may be the wire they hang her on
    and outweasel nat'l figure skating assn.
    
    Also, in SI (thank god for those dr's waiting rooms) was a recount of
    giants vs colts, '58 (took place apparently in jan-59 because of
    giant-brown playoff).  Boy what memories.  I probably was a bigger
    giant fan then as I've ever been for any team (save 60s celts,'67 sox).
    
    As I've said in other notes and probably again, the difference was the
    drama of the action.  If it exists today I sure don't see it except on
    some radio play by play.  Thank god we didn't have John Maddens and
    Dick Enbergs back then.
    
    Billte

    re: SI
    
    Does this weeks SI have an article on the Duke vs. UNC rivalry?  I
    heard that Alexander Woolf was at the Dean Dome the other night as part
    of a feature story.
    
    thanks,
    
    Chris

    The Europeans are very upset that all the Kerrigan sentiment may
    persuade the judges to reward her with sympathy points and propel her
    past some other deserving skaters including two-time champion Witt of
    Germany,a frenchwoman and a japanese skater among others.
    
    My guess is the USOC will buckle under and allow Harding to compete.
    The television ratings are too enticing for them to keep her from
    competing before being convicted. They are still smarting from losing
    big in the Butch Reynolds' decision.
    
    
    

    Witt finished 8th in the European Championships. Not even she expects
    to medal in the Olympics. The big losers could be Bonaly of France,
    the skater from Japan, and the skater from Ukraine.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I think the only way that tonya will win a medal is to mastermind
    another PLOT maybe...
    
                  stig

    
    
    	Yabbut I just heard on the radion that Tonya's attorneys have filed
    a multi-million dollar lawsuit.  No further details.
    
    I remain,
    yer news brreaker (sometimes)
    Kev
    

    TCM:
    
    
    Thanks for the correction. I forgot about the Ukrainian skater.

    $20 million law suit by Harding against the USOC. They are asking for
    an injunction against any USOC action.
    
    Gilooly is asking for permission to travle to Oslo to testify at the
    hearing on 2/15. Judge will probably grant permission.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    SO it's all a "get rich quick" scheme for Tonya, eh???
    
    JaKe
    

    I heard that she is going to pose for playboy also...oh boy...
    
                    stig

    	I wonder who's paying for Gilooly's trip to Norway?
    
    	Tonya Harding and Playboy in the same breath (or sentence)
    	doesn't quite sound right.
    
    	I think they ought to let TH skate. If she medals, and is then
    	convicted, they can take the medal.
    
    	I heard $20 million law suit.
    
    	Scott 

    Chris,
    	I haven't bought the SI yet so I don't know about Duke-NC.
    
    It appears that they are doing a big spread.. ahem on women's
    volleyball or surfing as muscular ...ahem women are on the cover this
    week.
    	I'll see you over in big east as I managed to ketch quite a bit of
    the bc-conn game last night and Russ is waiting with bb for bb's
    comments
    

Harding was supposed to have gotten $650K for her interview with "Hard Copy".

I'd let them interview me for half that.

    
    The pre-emptive first strike lawsuit... guilty until proven innocent
    until proven guilty...
    
    glenn
    

    Just goes to reinforce the old story that when you have a bunch of
    lawyers buried up to their necks in sand, you don't have enough
    sand.  
    
    Well this should be all cleared up by the next Winter Olympics.
    
    
    MikeL
    
    

    According to the ACChris School of Conspiracy, Kerrigan and Harding
    have been in this together from the start.  They're giving kickbacks to
    each other from their various stints and endorsements.

Did the Internet thang with ol' JD a few times today about running this weekend.
On the subject of the Tonya/Nancy soap opera, he said:

	"Tonya roolz"

When both our friend Phil and I pointed out certain, uhh, virtues of Nancy, 
JD responded:

       "You guys are sick.  Tonya is a real woman, not a fake
	woman like Chopper Kerrigan.  Tonya's a black
	leather type gal, Kerrigan's a preppy whale shorts type
	gal..."

=Bob=

While not particularly caring for either one of them, I will say that
whenever I see Nancy Kerrigan, I can just hear the wind whistling through
her ears.....

Like Imus says "I guess she didn't have much time to spend in the library"


'SAw

btw, keep an eye out for the Marv Albert video that's being shilled along
with new subscriptions for SI.

In one highlight clip they show two skaters practicing and inadvertantly
bashing into each other.

I laughed so hard when I saw it I almost choked on a piece of my 
sandwhich.  

Skating as it was meant to be, surely!


'Saw

    I'm doing a total turnaround on this..
    
    I fully support Tonya's efforts to win da gold.  She epitomizes all
    that is America.. She represents it all..
    
    Trash talks her opponents, smokes Winston, drinks VO on da rocks,
    marries a Tshirt hustler, conspires to commit an assault, admits
    to obstruction of justice, manipulates da press to portray her as
    the "victim" ( her mom tore off her hangnail when she was 3),
    coerces 650K outta 'Inside Edition' for the sympathy vote,
    and the coup de grace... the Americain dream.. She SUES!!
    My hero! I'm smitten! She's up there with apple pie and the flag..
    I hope she runs for political ofc when she returns.  How All-
    American can you get!! Purty soon she'll replace Mike Eruzione as
    America's guest.. companies will be falling all over themselves
    for motivational speeches.. She's on the fast track.  
    All she's left to do is keep it up in Lillehammer.. take a little
    Brillo to her rivals' skates before they go on.. foolproof..
    
    And when she returns, she can take that gold medal and pawn it for 
    a new Chevy truck. What an American icon...
    
    In fact, she impresses me so much, I'm gonna follow her example.,
    I always wanted to figure skate for gold for my country (wheee) but a
    rink rat told me I was too slow. I've suffereed so much
    emotional damage since then, I deserve to be compensated. Let's
    see, where's my lawyers' (Cheatam, Fleeecam, and Sioux) number?
    How do you spell USOC??
    
    I won't forget you guys when I'm filthy rich.. I deserve to be,
    Y'unnerstan'..
    
    MikeL
    
    

Mike ya forgot that after te olympics she's gonna bare it all fer Playboy. 
She has used thuggery, sympathy and now her body all for MONEY. What a girl. 
She runs barefoot to save her Chevy from being towed.
She where's a tee shirt that says  "NO COMMENT" 

Next thing we will learn is that she not Hillary developed the Health care 
plan. 

Jeff

>Mike ya forgot that after te olympics she's gonna bare it all fer Playboy.

shudder, shudder...

I'm sure Mr T would have some colorful commentary on this layout..

Metz

   and.... they'll probably will do a layout of her working on her truck.
    
      Re. MikeL...I'm roaring on the "brillo" thaing...she'd be able to
    conceal that easier rather than a file. 
    
                   stig

    Nah Kerrigan's not gonna carry the flag according to the Globe.
    One of the women lugers will do it.
    
    Looks like Tonya wants to give Nancy a hug. Wonder if she'll give 
    her a kidney punch in the clinch. 
    Po' Tonya is a natural actor, she was soooo sincere and demure on the
    Inside Edition edition. Was she as milquetoast with Connie Chung?
    Tonya'd be a natural for the Dominatrix in those female prison
    movies MrT used to salivate over..
    
    Cain't wait till they both skate. Is it true that Tonya will lead off
    with AC/DC's "Dirty Deads Done Dirt Cheap"? If so, Nancy's gotsta
    follow with Ian Drury's "Hit Me with Your Rhythm Stick".
    
    MikeL
    
    

Nah Nancy 'll start off with Pat Benatar's Hit Me With Your Best Shot.


The Crazy Met

    Yea, she soitanly gets mo' press than mah suit pants..
    As she said in Detriot and I paraphrase "No one prolly knew who I
    was before this, and now everyone will know me." I thinbk she's
    handled it purty well, all this free pub. She already had the Campbell
    and Reebok contracts negotiated. Lowkey is the key for Kerrigan.
    But ah will watch her SNL in March.. just fer sh$t's sake.
    
    I suppose the proposed Harding-Kerrigan "hug" will require mo'
    press credentials than the Israeli-PLO agreement summit.
    
    
    MikeL
    

    >    One of the women lugers will do it.
    
    They have an event for fresh water clamming?!
    
    >    follow with Ian Drury's "Hit Me with Your Rhythm Stick".
    
    boy does that bring back memories!

    Ghandi was too passive and didn't deserve the hype.
    
    >    press credentials than the Israeli-PLO agreement summit.
    
    speakin of faux pas agreements.

    MikeL, it's Ian Dury.
    
    Yer weclome.
    
    Mark.

�While not particularly caring for either one of them, I will say that
�whenever I see Nancy Kerrigan, I can just hear the wind whistling through
�her ears.....
    
    So we should forgo SAT's and IQ tests and just take a look at folks to
    determine how intelligent they are?

    Well, Jeff, the thuggery hasn't been proven yet.
    
�She runs barefoot to save her Chevy from being towed.
    
    Wouldn't you?
    
�She where's a tee shirt that says  "NO COMMENT" 
    
    I thought that was kind of clever.

    Tommy, don't forget, Nancy is a "local".

�    speakin of faux pas agreements.
    
    Unless I'm missing something, I think you need to look faux pas up in
    your dictionary and get a better understanding of the meaning of the
    term.

Yabut Saw has been taking his buddy Imus a little too seriously on this 
subject.  The I-man was groping for some reasong to put Kerrigan down, and
for some reason decided to focus on her looks and intelligence.  

As for her appearance, hey, maybe she's no Cindy Crawford, but I still like 
the way she fills up a pair of skating tights.  As far as her intelligence,
bear in mind that we only see her (or Tonya) through the media, and have no
clue what she is really like.

=Bob=

                      
   >  There's this 
   >  fascination with the seamy side of things and with the sordid de-
   >  tails of people's lives these days that I find to be distasteful. 
    
    So why do we continue to flay this rotting carcass of a subject,
    again... and again.. and again.  We're wasting valuable SPROTS disk
    space and bandwidth, not to mention the talents of some of the most
    sports-knowledgeable resources in the world. ;-)
    
    But seriously, based on the gossip, name-calling and general tawdriness
    going on in here, the media has been tastefully restrained by comparison...
    
    glenn
    

    >    skater. She's not supposed to be Hillary Clinton's smarter sister. I

    >    Unless I'm missing something, 

    OK, help me out here, Mike.  How do you define faux pas?

from the 'Merican Heritage Dictionary (BTW, the worst dictionary I've ever 
used):

faux pas  pl. faux pas 
A social blunder [Fr.]

    I once had faux pas on the back side at Trull but the 15th killed
    me.

    >    OK, help me out here, Mike.  How do you define faux pas?
    
    "social blunder" per the DEC-issued American Heritage Dictionary.

�She runs barefoot to save her Chevy from being towed.
    
    Wouldn't you?


Only to pay the driver to take it away. 

>                                -< Toy's Rule
 >-

American steel is better 8^)


>Only to pay the driver to take it away. 


I've had excellent luck with my GMC pickup and there's no way I'd
ever buy another Japanese vehicle.   I decided today that my
truck definitely paid for itself this winter.....


'Saw

    
    	You got the "Toy" part right Riggo.  It's nothin' but a toy.
    	When you're ready to graduate up to a real main's truck, you
    	let me know.  I might let you drive mine first to see if you
    	can handle it.
    
    Claybone (owner of a Ford F250 Heavy Duty Supercab 4X4 5 speed wif
    	      a 7.3 l rompin', stompin' diesel!)

Did anybody see the Nowegian ski jumper fall trying to light the torch in 
pratice. 

Ole Gunnar Fidjestol hored to end his ski-jumping career with the leap of his 
life: Flying through the air clutching the Olympic flame at the opening 
ceremonies. But Fidjestol tumbled head-first into the snow, suffering a mild 
concussion that forced him to turn the torch over to another Norwegian Jumper. 

Jeff

Trivia for the Olympics what is AJ kitts real first name ?
 

>>CAPNET::LEFEBVRE "PCBU Product Management"            5 lines  11-FEB-1994 12:41
>>                      -< Reasons to be cheerful, part 3 >-
                     Yes me main, another beeyootiful and whacko ballad
                     by the Haid Blockhaid
    
>>    MikeL, it's Ian Dury.
  
    Ah wot's a dropped "R" among Bostonians.. 
      
>>    Yer weclome.
           ^^
       Thnak yer
    
    MikeL of the FatFingered Police
    
             
    

    Harding and USOC came to an agreement.
    
    USOC will not hold any hearing until after the Olympics. Harding
    dropped her lawsuit. Harding will be on the US team.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Tommy Moe wins the Gold in Alpine Skiing downhill.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Just in case folks want to be surprised when they watch the tape
delayed broadcasts, I'd suggest posting updates behind a form-feed:




Duncan Kennedy was disqualified from luge competition when he crashed
during a run today.

He was unhurt, but is now out of the competition.....


'sAw

    
    I just heard on WEEI that Dan Janssen was eliminated from the 500m
    speed skating.  Tommy Moe and another US skier are running 3rd and 2nd
    respectively in the men's combined Alpine behind the Nord that was
    favored heavily.  Big boss Koss resets the world record in the 5000m
    speed skating he has personally lowered the world record by over 7
    seconds in the past 3 years.  There were 200,000 people on the waiting
    list for tickets to his race.  WOW!
    
    ML

In watching the broadcasts for the Olympics, I must say I've been
VERY impressed with the IBM ads.   It's easy to see why we're wallowing
where we are in the marketplace when you compare our ads with those
of Big Blue.

Granted, we don't have the fact that we were picked to help plan the
Olympics to boast about like they do, but those are certainly some slick
and catchy ads.  


I like the Coca-Cola Polar Bears about the best though...8^)


'SAw

    Dan Jansen =  Buffalo Bills of skating.

US skiers finished 2-3 in the Combined Alpine event.

The Crazy Met

>US skiers finished 2-3 in the Combined Alpine event.
>
>The Crazy Met

You're supposed to use a form-feed.....  8^)

Personally, today I don't care, since I'll be at drill tonight and will
miss the coverage, but there might be some folks who don't want to know
right away.....

    
    How about we seperate this note into two notes.  One is for results
    which people can NEXT/UNSEEN, and one for discussions like how many
    microseconds you lose for every extra second of air time in the alpine
    skiing event.
    
    Marc
    

    HAHAHA, good one Marc. Air time indeed.. Well I guess with the downhill
    gold being won by .04 sec. anythang can affect it.
    "Well look at Sven Cahoots on thwe upper part of the course, going
    through that hairpin turn, his head lifted .000000000011 CM off center
    that could mean the difference between gold and plastic..."
    
    MikeL
    

>    How about we seperate this note into two notes.  One is for results
>    which people can NEXT/UNSEEN, and one for discussions like how many
>    microseconds you lose for every extra second of air time in the alpine
>    skiing event.
>    
>    Marc

I think it's Topic 159 -- I just entered it.

This topic is for discussing things like micro-secods and air time and
how they get in those skin tight suits.....


86)
    

>    "Well look at Sven Cahoots on thwe upper part of the course, going
>    through that hairpin turn, his head lifted .000000000011 CM off center
>    that could mean the difference between gold and plastic..."
    
You go ahead and laugh you silly Potato-Eater you!

On a serious note, with drugs banned, the advantages are becoming increasingly
more dependent on technology.

I remember seeing a thing during the Summer 'pics in 1992 on usings computer
modeling etc to help marathon runners with their form, to convert all of
their energy from bad form things to positive stuff.

I'll bet the skiers do the same thing.....


'Saw    

    Moe cost me 2 points in my Olympic Rotisserie standings....

Friends,

Tired of always losing that golf match to the guy who seems only to shoot in
the low 80s when he's YOUR opponent???

Tired of always losing in straight sets to that one tennis partner??

Tired of always losing to the guy who bowl 200+ games???

Well, if you are, call us:


"The Tonya Harding Center for Opponent Neutralization"

Here at the center, we offer affordable ways to temporarily disable, injure,
maim or even dispose of that annoying opponent who always seems to do just one
better than you.  Check our prices:

A simple whack on the knee, $99.95, or better yet, save and get baseball bats
to both of their knees for $149.95.

A kick to the groin(for male opponents only), just $9.95.  

Impailment on a sharp object, in a public place, just $799.95.  

If you act fast, you get this wonderful souvenir collapsible baton, just like
the one used against Nancy Kerrigan as a free gift, AND it's autographed by
Tonya herself.

And, place your order on a Thursday and receive our special rates, buy one act
of injury at full price, receive the second act at 50% off.

Our operators are standing by right now at 1-900-JUST-WIN.

And as a special gift for the first 50 callers in the next hour, we have for
you the Lorena Bobbitt Home Castration Kit.

Call Now!!

    Spoiler based on .465 spoiler
    
    I heard the Russian team came together 2-3 weeks ago.   A lot went
    to the NHL (imagine at one point they had a line of Mogilny, Bure
    and Federov).  No Red Army to train together.  Russia vs Unified team.
    All those things add up...
    

  That's funny.

  Here's a big surprise. I'm home watching the Russian Fin hockey game on TNT.
If you don't want to know what's happening, don't look past the spoiler
warning. 

  By the way, TNT coverage is better than CBS coverage, more sports, no stories
about blind mothers, dead sisters, paraplegic aunts, heart breaking road kill
and the rest of the trash that CBS shovels at us between coverage of hockey and
figure skating. 

  George



  The Fins are killing Team Russia 5-0 with 6 min to go in the 3rd period. The
Russians have never been shut out in Olympic competition but it could happen
here. 

  The announcers claim that the Russian team is no longer what it once was
because of players lost to the NHL and the Fins, who are usually a team of
individuals, are playing like a team. 

  If this holds up, it will be quite the upset. 

  George 

warning

actually the Fins were favored to win the game

The Crazy Met

RE              <<< Note 155.467 by METSNY::francus "Mets in '94" >>>

>actually the Fins were favored to win the game

  Well, the announcers are saying 



  That the Fin's 5-0 win was an upset.

  George

           <<< HYDRA::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]DAVE_BARRY.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -<  Dave Barry - Noted humorist  >-
================================================================================
Note 856.0           Norway fine Olympic host, but it's cold          No replies
ROCKER::KNOX "Rock'n'Roll Refugee"                   71 lines  11-FEB-1994 13:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	( Reprinted without permission from the Colorado Springs )
	( Gazette & Telegraph, Friday, Feb. 11, 1994             )

	Dave Barry, syndicated humor columnist and winner of the Pulitzer
	Prize in Commentary in 1988, is covering the Winter Olympics for
	10 days from Lillehammer, Norway.


  LILLEHAMMER, Norway -- I have located Norway. It turns out to be right 
next to, but different from, Sweden. Also, I'm pretty sure that Finland
is around here someplace.
  
  Getting here was not easy. My flight from New York to Oslo sat on the
ground at Kennedy airport for THREE AND A HALF HOURS while the pilot 
came up with a series of increasingly lame excuses for the delay: he was
waiting for connecting passengers; the dog ate his flight plan; vandals
had stolen the landing gear, etc. I believe that the pilot was actually
stalling  because he didn't know for sure where Norway was. I bet that,
between announcements, he and his flight crew were frantically thumbing
through volume "N" of the World Book Encyclopedia, looking for the
Norway section. ("Here it is!, It's an inert gas!" "No, you idiot!
That's 'nitrogen'!")

  But eventually they figured it out, and we took off and found Norway,
which is a darned good thing because the U.S. bobsled team was on our
flight. Most of the team members were large muscular individuals.
You need to be big and strong for this event, becasue at the beginning
of the bobsled run you have to push the sled hard and get it going very
fast, and then, just as the sled starts hurtling down the steep, icy,
treacherous track at speeds upwards of 80 mph, you have to -- in one
smooth, fluid motion -- let go of the sled and fall down.

  At least that's what I would do. The team members, however, actually 
get INTO the sled, where they are jammed together in a tiny, 
uncomfortable space, very similar to the seat I occupied during the
247-hour flight from New York to Oslo, except without the beverage-cart
service.

  Speaking of which, I noted that one of the bobsled team members had
several rum drinks. I pointed this out to veteran sportswriter Dave
Kindred.

  "It's OK," Kindred said. "He doesn't have to steer."

  Anyway, we finally arrived in Norway. It's a Nordic country, defined,
technically, as "a country where they have a funny little diagonal line
going through the letter 'o.'" Not counting reindeer and fish, Norway's
population is very small. I probably met most of the residents right at
the airport, and they all seemed very nice. They also spoke excellent
English, a fact that makes Norway seem quite foreign to me, inasmuch as
I live in Miami.

  As for the country itself, if I were to descibe it in one word, that
word would be "cold." There is snow all over the place. I don't wish to
be critical of the Olympics Committee, but in my opinion, when you're
planning a major event such as the Winter Olympics, with people coming
from all over the world, it makes a lot more sense to hold it in a 
warmer climate, or during the summer.

  But that is water over the dam (or, as they say in Norway, "Vatter
uver da vatterholderbakker.)" We are here now, and we are going to
make the best of it. Besides, there are many exciting stories to cover,
including:

   1. Tonya Harding
   2. The U.S. speed skaters, and what they think about Tonya Harding
   3. Norway's emergence as a modern industrial nation, and whether  this
      is fair to Tonya Harding.

 I plan to cover all these stories and more in the days ahead. Unless
this would require me to go outside.

bad editing there. Neon is a "noble" gas, nitrogen is not 

:-)

The Crazy Met

    
    I really wanted to see this game tonight and be surprised, and now you 
    guys have gone and spoiled it for me.  Nice use of the form feeds!  How
    about being a little more deceptive the next time, by saying that
    there's an upset in progress, and that the team being upset used to be
    a big Communist country that was once our Cold War enemy, but now it's 
    a littler Communist country that's not, maybe, sort of, we're not sure,
    that's now known as (warning! team being upset by the team that speaks 
    Finnish as native language behind form feed):
    
    Russia!
     

    Dat's OK glenn,
    Watch the Beanpot instead and I won't spoil your fun by telling you
    that the team from the Yahd you can Pahk your Cah in is gonna
    whup those kids who play at a college from the second and third letters
    in the alphabet.
    
    MikeL
    

    Wasn't me...

fwiw if the game was on TNT then it is a safe bet that CBS was not including
it as part of their coverag tonight, certainly no more than a few minutes.
TNT may not show events that CBS is using during prime time. 

MikeL:
what does the Beanpot have to do with the WInter Olympics?

The Crazy Met

kind of bogus anyways. some results are broadcast by the time we drive
to work in the morning. All others on the way home.

The Crazy Met

�bad editing there. Neon is a "noble" gas, nitrogen is not 
    
    Bad reading there.  He wrote "inert", not "noble".

    
    
      Gotta feel bad for ze french downhill skier yesterday/two days ago.
    
      He was medal contender.
    
     He jumped so hard out of the chute that his right ski came off.
    
     What a way to go.
    
    
     

awright. nitrogen is not an inert gas. feel better Mac?? 

:-)

The Crazy Met

    Now I know why you're in software...

RE Ladies Figure Skating 

  One thing I've noticed about the coverage of the Karrigan / Harding story is
that the U.S. sports press seems to think that they have a lock on the gold
metal. Even Harding was quoted as saying "now I can win the Gold" when she
heard she was going. 

  Actually they both have a realistic shot, but in both cases it's a long shot.
Odds makers in Vagas are giving Karrigan 7-2 and Harding 12-1. At those odds,
I'd take the bet against Karrigan if I were a betting man.

  There is a tier of 4 skaters that have the best chance for the gold metal.
They are defending world champion Oksana Baiul from the Ukraine, European
champion Surya Bonaly of France, Nancy Karrigan from the U.S. and a Chinese
skater (I forget her name). 

  Baiul really scattered the field at the 1993 World Championships to win the
gold metal. She's been a little erratic lately but she is probably the best all
around skater in the competition. The Chinese skater is probably 2nd strongest.
I believe she was 2nd in last year's championship. 

  Surya Bonaly of France is very strong technically but has had problems with
the artistic part of her program. Karrigan is strong in the artistic portion
but weak technically. 

  If any one of these skaters skates two clean programs in the short and long
competitions, they would probably win. None of them are strong enough to
overcome mistakes to overtake one of the others who skates cleaner. 

  Tonya Harding does have a chance, but it's a long shot. For her to win, she
has to land her "knockout punch", the triple axel, skate perfectly, and all of
the others have to make at least a few mistakes. If she skates perfectly and
doesn't do the triple axel, she won't win even if others do make mistakes, she
just isn't strong enough. 

  All of the women do triple jumps. A triple jump is one in which the skater
skating backwards jumps up, spins around 3 times, and lands on one foot. The
exception is the triple axel in which the skaters skating forward jumps up and
spins around 3 1/2 times landing on one foot. The Axel is the hardest of the
jumps and only a few women have done it including Ito of Japan and Harding. 

  The last time Harding landed the triple axel in competition was in the 1991
U.S. National championships when she beat both Karrigan and Yamaguchi. Since
then she has either not attempted or missed the jump each time she has been in
a competition. Had she landed it in the 1992 Olympics she would have won a
metal instead of finishing 4th behind Yamaguchi, Ito (of Japan) and Karrigan. 

  She's tried it a few times lately in practice. One of those famous "mall"
shots where she falls down is a triple axel attempt gone bad. With it she has
a shot, without it, she probably won't even get a metal. 

  My prediction is that the Chinese girl will win the Gold, Oksana Baiul from
the Ukraine the silver, and Karrigan will finish 3rd to end up with a 2nd bronze
to match the one she got at Albertville in 1992. Harding will stumble, "2 foot"
her triple axel and end up somewhere around 5th. 

  George 

>
>    Now I know why you're in software...
>

At least he knows his chemistry.....

    I heard on Imus that their making the Tonya Harding story and calling it
    
    		"Spunk"
    
    Perhaps for the Duane Bobbitt story they'll call it 
    
    
    
    		Shrunk

    What is it with Jansen?  The guy holds the world record yet can't win
    an Olympic medal in 3 tries.

>
>    What is it with Jansen?  The guy holds the world record yet can't win
>    an Olympic medal in 3 tries.
>

The Gaspipe Man.....


Some folks just cave under pressure.  I mean, who was watching when he
set the worlds record?  No one of any consequence.  Now that we're all
watching, another choke job....


'Saw

    
    Everytime I hear Dan Jansen's name I cry because he doesn't win the
    gold.

    
      Jansen is suffering from a rare strain of 
    esophagus constrictus, found primarily in North East New York
    and portions of the Mid West.
    
      It is not to be taken lightly.
    
      If contracted one time and not administered to promptly, it will
    rapidly grow unchecked.
    
      

    
    If anyone gets to the end of the previous note, please let me know.  I
    gave up after ~50 returns.
    
    Marc
    

    	I got there.
    
    	He wrote, "Fall, Tonya, fall"
    
    	Scott

re: hockey

mia culpa. Russia was top-seeded in the tourney.

The Crazy Met

    Do what I did... I sent the message back to Heiser....
    
    REK

barf!

The Crazy Met

Today results have more Gold for the USA in skiing. 


Womens G/S  sombody like Rotwieller

you tell 'em guy. kind of obnoxious, isn't it??

The Crazy Met

Well, if you guys don't want to be considerate of other folks, we could
always just set them hidden.......

    
    
    >> barf!
    
    
    	Yabbut wasn't that the name of the guy John Candy played in
    Spaceballs?????
    
    

>    
>      If you're going to set anything hidden please do it to those 
>     anti-gun control notes. At least the replies in this note have
>     something to do with sports.
>

Actually, I'm not, because I forgot this isn't the form-feed note, that's
at 159 or whatever.

And don't complain about the hunting note, because we've always had
one and we've been over the hunting/guns as sports rathole zillions
of times.....

    
      >   Extract it out and edit it. At the end of all those form feeds
    >    it says, "Fall Tonya fall!" Try and control your laughter.
    
      

>    I'm not complaining about the hunting note and you know that. Or you
>    would if you were paying attention. What I find objectionable is the 
>    degeneration of the note into a pro/anti-gun control debate. There's
>    a lively discussion of that issue over in SOAPBOX if you really care
>    to discuss it in-depth and in the proper forum.

I always pay attention.  (So don't be a wise-ass... 8^P)


The subject is relevant to anyone who hunts, target shoots or collects guns.


As to going to Soapbox, a lot of us don't note over there, we note here, so
if it's relevent, why move?


Finally, and candidly, I'm surprised you'd object to anything in this topic,
since you've only popped in here like three times in the entire topic.

But, because I'm such a nice guy, I'll give on this one, and we'll try
to get the gun-control debate to a minimum......

'Saw

    

   ... Oh well, since the Olympics note has turned into a gun note ...

  Too bad about Dan Jansen and Duncan Kennedy. It appears that Jansen has
failed too many times to call it all bad luck, the pressure must really bother
him.

  It appears that his entire family and circle of friends are really high
strung. Every time he loses the reaction is like a whole town died. If they'd
all lighten up, maybe he wouldn't get so wigged out during big matches. 

  They should have Tommy Moe talk to him for a while before the match. He
seems a lot more mellow.

  George

>  Too bad about Dan Jansen and Duncan Kennedy. It appears that Jansen has
>failed too many times to call it all bad luck, the pressure must really bother
>him.

    	RE: Psychological and Jansen...
    
    	That's what Eric Heiden indicated. He pointed to his noggin
    	and said that Jansen's only obstacle would be mental.
    
    	Scott

  Of course, the next two guys to go around that turn also slipped, the 2nd
went down and slid into the wall.

  In '88 he was obviously distracted. In '92, he finished but he got beat. This
time the two guys after him tripped indicating an ice problem. 

  Maybe it's all mental but maybe he is just "snake bit". Hard to tell.

  How old is he? They keep saying it's his last time, will he definitely be
over the hill in '98?

  George

    Jansen's 28.  Actually I only saw one guy after him slip.  I agree
    with whoever said the whole family is a bundle of nerves, waiting for
    something bad to happen.  For the past 3 Olympics it has.
    
    					Steve

    
    
    	Yabbut nobody's bashing William Jennings Bryant for his 0-3 record!
    
    ;^)
    

    How the the Ice skating pair from Germany... SHe took a header into the
    ice... FACE FIrst... OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    REK

This media coverage of the Tonya story has gone crazy.  I heard on the radio
this morning that they were reporting what she had for lunch upon arriving in
Norway.  Guess wht it was.



A CLUB sandwich.

(Ta-boom)
          

    Dan Jansen: The Bill Buckner of winter sport...

    The WIfe said that yesterday CHannel 4 cut in the regular programming
    to show T_H live getting out of the car in Portland....
    
    REK
    
     this morning...

    
    
    Just heard that choke artist Jansen has pulled out of the 1500.  Guess
    he couldn't handle another failure.
    
    

    well I no longer feel sorry for him then.

    I thought his best events were the 500 and 1000.  Maybe he's preparing
    for the 1000?
    
    Harding got out of the car this morning in  Portland?  I thought she
    was in Norway already.  Did she fly back?
    

    	Jansen is, primarily, a sprinter. So, his events are the 
    	500 and the 1000. I think he skates the 1500 more as a form
    	of training. So, it's no big deal.
    
    	Scott

    
    Jansen is a wuss. Period. 

    Jansen's bypassing the 1500 to conentrate on the 1000.
    Imus said he was bypassing the 1500 cuz he was gonna avoid slipping
    3 mo' times (3x500=1500).
    
    This Harding thang is nutso. Gillooly sells a home video of
    Tonya doing a strip tease to Mumble Trash TV; Her mom LaVona
    sings a song about Tonya on Montel Williams and after fielding
    some hostile questions, collapses and is hospitalized.
    
    
    MikeL
    

	I may have the 5000 confused with the 1500. I thought Jansen
qualified for the 1500. However, some new guy who used to skate on roller
blades. Took up speed skating and won the 1500 in some National event.
Dan figured even though he was schedule for the 500, 1000, and 1500. He
would give this other guy his slot in the 1500. So the new guy could
experience skating in the Olympics.
	So I believe Dan had already said he was not competing in the 1500
before the Olympics started. So he isn't being a wuss by not competing in
it. He was already planning on letting someone else take his spot.

Ron

    
    He is still a wuss. Period.
    

    Why, because he didn't bump anyone as he went through the turns?
    
    Speaking of which, do they still do that speed skating free for all
    where instead of heats of 2 skaters they put everyone on the starting
    line?  I think I remember seeing this in the last winter games.  It
    might have been just a demonstration sport.

       I was watching the local CBS affiliate this morning, and they showed
    that there are 4 media personel for every 1 (one) athlete.  Can you
    beleive this?
    
      What cracked me up, is the weather guy from CBS morning show was over
    at the Olympics.  What a waist of $$$.  Of course those expenses get
    back to us the consumer.  The charge for advertizing goes up to cover
    the expenses of sending this waste of overhead to Norway, which 
    means product price increases.
    
      Tim

     Janson=Buffalo ... 4 in a row

Figure skating's got to be a legitimate sport because Scott Hamil
said it was dangerous.  Isn't that one of the defining characteristics?

All kidding aside, the athleticism required by world-class pairs skaters 
is awesome.  And after watching the little German skater belly
flop on the ice, the bit about it being dangerous is gaining some
credibility, too.  Can you imagine what it must be like to be dropped
on the ice from 8 or so feet up?  The ladies that skate with a
partner have got to be tough to compete at the olympic level, and
you know that they take some headers during practice.

So, I guess that puts me in the camp that consider figure skating a
sport.  And I even enjoy watching it (sometimes).  I don't know
what anyone else's criteria are for determing whether or not an
activity is a sport, but I just don't see that figure skating doesn't
qualify.

To each his own.

Jerry

    	Scott Hamilton
    
    	From Bowling Green, Ohio.
    
    	Scott

    
    	Rocky Balboa
    
    	From Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    
    	Terry
    

	Yo, Adrian!

    
    
    	Yabbut I really screwed up lasted night!  I accidentally surf
    landed onto CBS and made the mistake of staying there for ~10 minutes.
    
    Can somebody tell me what the hell that little story about the old
    folks whose house was over the blasting area for the skating rink had
    to do with anything????????
    
    Man, this stinks!  If they wanted to show that crap, why not put it on
    Peoples Magazine or some other crap show?
    
    Sorry, CBS but with my disguist about the knee-whack coverage and now
    this, I'm boycotting.  As a matter of fact, I may erase CBS from the
    tee vee channel memory!
    
    Blecch!
    
    I remain,
    also planning *NOT* to buy Tonya's Playboy issue
    Kev
    

CBS is caught, I think, between a rock and a hard spot.

They're trying to do two things at once and failing miserably.  They're
trying to pander to the non-sporting public, who'll watch for the
"spectacle" while providing sports coverage to the people who are watching
for the sports.

I'm disappointed too.

The "fluff" pieces on the athletes, are, in some cases, interesting, as it
is kind of cool to see how other athletes from other countries prepare
etc.  But then you run into a time constraint, where you can't show enough
of the competition.

Certain things they show, I'd always enjoy.  I love the way Charles Kuralt
can turn a phrase, and do a voice-over footage of snowy mountains or the
Aurora Borealis.  If they kept the fluff to his 5 minutes at the end of the
broadcast that would be fine.

But I want to see more of the competition.


I'm going to write CBS a letter and tell them what I think.  It might
not make much difference in anything, but it'll make me feel better.....


'Saw

> But I want to see more of the competition.
    
    I think there's just not even enough competition there to fill 3 hours
    a night for three solid weeks.  Interesting competition, at least. 
    Maybe if you're the hardcore Olympics fan and really do want to see 
    several hours of uncut biathlon competition or free-style skiing it's 
    possible.  I know I still wouldn't watch.  I'm not complaining; there 
    are still other networks in operation during this period, some of them
    even televising sports...
    
    glenn
    

>    I think there's just not even enough competition there to fill 3 hours
>    a night for three solid weeks.  Interesting competition, at least. 
>    Maybe if you're the hardcore Olympics fan and really do want to see 
>    several hours of uncut biathlon competition or free-style skiing it's 
>    possible.  I know I still wouldn't watch.  I'm not complaining; there 
>    are still other networks in operation during this period, some of them
>    even televising sports...
    
I wouldn't mind seeing a live hockey game, or some of the x-country skiing.
Not uncut perhaps, but more than what we're seeing.

Hell, I'd even be happy if we didn't always get the insipid "how are you
feeling, now that you've won gold" questions.

I wish I could win a gold in something, because when they asked me that
question, I'd answer,   "Why, you a__hole, I'm so f___ing happy I could
just s___ my drawers!"

I mean, come on......


'Saw    

Another problem (or maybe another slant on the problem) is that CBS feels 
that they need something for the audience of the shows they replace.  They're
not replacing tractor-pulls, they are replacing sitcoms and nighttime soaps.
They put the fluff in to appease the "Knotts Landing" crowd.

=Bob=

  The problem of fluff in the CBS Olympics coverage is the continuation of
the controversy that started two years ago at Albertville. 

  After losing money the last couple times around, ABC bid low and lost the
1992 Olympics to CBS. The 1st week of coverage by CBS was pretty bad. Not only
were there production problems but they flooded their coverage with fluff
about the personal lives of the athletes inspired largely by the ratings pulled
by ABC in Calgary in 1988 with their coverage of the death of Dan Jansen's
sister. 

  The calls poured in complaining about the fluff and at the end of week 1 of
1992 CBS promised more sports coverage. Of courses more popular sports were
scheduled so it was no real problem. 

  Now the controversy has started up again. The Boston Globe reported a couple
days ago that calls to the Globe, Boston Ch 7 (the CBS affiliate) and to CBS
sports were once again pouring in complaining about the coverage but this time
the producers at CBS answered that they were going use their proven formula
that is aimed at more than a sports audience. They went on to say that it was
their $295 million dollars. 

  But there is an alternative for U.S. sports fans. TNT has coverage during the
day time that is much more sports oriented. They are not allowed to show any
competition that CBS wants to show later in the evening, but CBS reserves so
little that there is plenty for them to show. TNT can also show anything they
want the day following the CBS coverage. 

  So if it's driving you nuts, set up your VCRs and tape TNT.

  George 

�But I want to see more of the competition.
    
    But isn't there more to the Olympics than just the competition?

    
    
    Yabbut here's a highlight of today's news
    
    
    Thisted morning was the first meeting between Tonya and Nancy.
    They met on da ice (practice session, doncha know) and Tonya skated
    over to Nancy, put her arm on Nancy's shoulder and whispered
    
    
    
    	"hey, I got this covered....I have the room numbers of all the
    other skaters."
    
    
    
    
    da da Boom!
    
    ;^)
    
    

|�But I want to see more of the competition.
|    
|    But isn't there more to the Olympics than just the competition?
|


Sure, but I get tired of seeing fluff pieces on some free-style skier who
sky-dives, even if she is cute.

CBS is trying to please everyone, and we all know that don't work......

    Saw,
    
    Maybe they are pleasing the majority by showing more fluff????
    

>    Saw,
    
>    Maybe they are pleasing the majority by showing more fluff????
    

	Maybe Frank but I find it hard to believe that's what the majority
        wants when the biggest sports nuts in the country are well reprensented
        in here and I haven't heard one person in here say he or she enjoys
        the fluff.........

 mike

�	Maybe Frank but I find it hard to believe that's what the majority
�        wants when the biggest sports nuts in the country are well reprensented
�        in here 
    
    Do you really think the majority of CBS viewers are sports nuts?

>    Do you really think the majority of CBS viewers are sports nuts?

Probably not.

But, CBS cannot ignore the fact that their Sports department is seriously
hurting, and they can't afford to alienate any of their sports viewers.

Bottom line, they're showing a lot of fluff, and even a non-sports-nut
has to see how insipid some of the questions are.....

Are you enjoying the coverage Mac?

    RE: CBS Coverage
    
    It really makes you wonder why the networks would ever want to bid
    heavily for Olympiads that don't have live prime-time coverage.
    
    The 1996 Summer Games in Hotlanta should be a great TV event because 
    everything will be live in the Eastern prime time zone. 
    
    LA 1984 was the best with the regular evening telecasts going to about
    12:30 every night(9:30 LA).

    
    
    At the last 'pics the same issues were raised, No ?
    

CBS is getting phenomenal ratings this week. Imagine what they
will get next week with the Women Figure Skating. As long as they
are getting these ratings they will stick to their formula.

200 reporters and 150 security personnel were on hand for the
practice skating session that Harding and Kerrigan were at. absurd.
Oh yeah there were a few other skaters as well.

The Crazy Met

�But, CBS cannot ignore the fact that their Sports department is seriously
�hurting, and they can't afford to alienate any of their sports viewers.
    
    Why not?  Do you think that if they do a sports nut oriented Olympics
    that folks will still tune into CBS on Sundays in the fall?
    
�Are you enjoying the coverage Mac?
    
    Haven't watched much.  My life doesn't revolve around the winter
    olympics.

�200 reporters and 150 security personnel were on hand for the
�practice skating session that Harding and Kerrigan were at. absurd.
    
    How many countries are participating this year?  Are there fewer than
    200?
    
    If someone else decided that wanted to be like Gilooly, people would be
    wondering why there weren't personal body guards for each skater and
    why there wasn't a SWAT team postioned at each entrance to the rink.

|�But, CBS cannot ignore the fact that their Sports department is seriously
|�hurting, and they can't afford to alienate any of their sports viewers.
|    
|    Why not?  Do you think that if they do a sports nut oriented Olympics
|    that folks will still tune into CBS on Sundays in the fall?
    
Nobody will be tuning into CBS on Sundays this fall for anything.

But the fact remains that CBS sports is hurting and they can't afford
to alienate anyone.

The people they attract with the fluff certainly won't be watching
much other CBS sports.....


My life doesn't revolve around the 'pics either, but the coverage I've
seen is mostly fluff, filled with insipid questions that a reasonably
intelligent reporter for a high school paper wouldn't even ask.....


'Saw

                     <<< Note 155.534 by CSTEAM::FARLEY >>>
    
>    Sorry, CBS but with my disguist about the knee-whack coverage and now
>    this, I'm boycotting.  As a matter of fact, I may erase CBS from the
>    tee vee channel memory!
    
    I'm sure all the CBS folks reading this conference will be disappointed
    to hear this.
    
    Mark.

>    
>    I'm sure all the CBS folks reading this conference will be disappointed
>    to hear this.
>    


Hey, you never know who knows somebody else.  I used to work with a guy
that was pretty good friends with some folks at CBS Sports.....

'Saw

�But the fact remains that CBS sports is hurting and they can't afford
�to alienate anyone.
    
�The people they attract with the fluff certainly won't be watching
�much other CBS sports.....
    
    Someone has already pointed out that the ratings are quite good, so
    somebody is watching them.  They obviously haven't alienated everyone.
    As far as alienation goes, they've already alienated one of their
    biggest sports audiences -- the football fan.  What else do they have
    to lose?
    
    What other CBS sports are there?  Do you really think a piece about
    someone's mom is going to make a college basketball fan stop watching
    CBS coverage of college hoops?  Or that a golf fan is going to give up
    on the network in disgust and pass on next year's Skins game?

    These are the first Olympic Games of which I know one of the
    participants.  Kriste Porter, a metal contender for the women's
    free-style ski team, is the daughter of my dentist out of Greenland NH. I
    had a chance to meet her a couple of years ago in Portsmouth at a
    her father's office.
    
    Porter is currently ranked 2nd in the US and 4th in the world.
    
    Mark.

Doing my monthly check-in on this file...

�CBS is getting phenomenal ratings this week. Imagine what they
�will get next week with the Women Figure Skating.

I don't think CBS is trying to get the sport-nut viewers (a small audience when
dealing with prime-time viewers). 

They are going after people like my wife who usually doesn't give a rats-ass
about sports but has enjoyed watching the Winter Games, probably because the
fluff-to-sports ratio has been high.

Getting people like her to watch is much more important than serious sports
addicts like me who has been known to watch bass fishing on ESPN at 2:00 AM
(while rocking the baby to sleep of course).

Bruce

�	Maybe Frank but I find it hard to believe that's what the majority
�        wants when the biggest sports nuts in the country are well reprensented
�        in here 
    
>>>    Do you really think the majority of CBS viewers are sports nuts?


	The majority of the ones tuned into the olympics, YES. Sure there 
        are those who are casual sports viewers who are tuning because it's 
        the olympics. national pride and all that. The ones that these fluff
        pieces are designed to attract. CBS my guess is realize that sports
        fans will sit through the crap for a taste of real sports action as
        opposed to say watching KNOTS LANDING.......


 mike

  Well I've got bad news and I've got good news. The bad news is that I'm sick.
Yuck, I hate to be sick. The good news is that I'm home and in about 2 minutes
the 1994 Winter Olympics will be coming on TV. Armed with my new understanding
of icing and offsides (thanks to this file) I'll probably get to see 1 complete
hockey game followed by all the competition that we missed yesterday because
CBS was covering moose, sick inlaws, battling skaters, and the rest.

  TNT guys, stop complaining about CBS, set up your VCR's and watch it on
TNT. It's all there.

  It's enough to make you start liking Ted and Jane,
  George

>>>    Do you really think the majority of CBS viewers are sports nuts?

	Yes!

	I know the week started bad for me.  I love the Luge, I'd watch it all
day.  Sunday night CBS was hyping the luge as part of their coverage.  What
did we see?  A 15 minute piece on the Duncan Kennedy incident in Germany a
while back.  A few shots of practice runs, maybe at Norway, maybe not.  Then
a list of standings for the day.  I don't think they showed one run in it's
entirety even.  Plus the piece on Kennedy was a rehash of a piece that CBS
had aired before the Olympics.

	Wouldn't bother me as much if CBS wouldn't make statements like:
"We just don't have the time to show all the events.".  The skydiving piece
was priceless too.  I'm sure glad we got to see that instead of 5 minutes worth
of X-country skiing or the like.  Then there was the 15 minute piece on the
mens upcoming event.  Joy O' Joy, there's Brian Botano's last performance in
the 88 Olympics in it's entirety.  Ooops, don't want to piss our boy Scotty 
off, let's show his performance in 84 too.    PUUHHHHLLLEEEAAASSSEEEE!

	I'd change the channels, but my wife has threatened removal of parts I
don't want removed.  I must admit, she likes the fluff, and I don't get it.

	re: X-country skiing.  I'm nuts, I'd love to watch the entire 30Km
event.  But then again, I watch the Boston Marathon from stem to stern too.
At the very least, show the start, a few minutes of the pack at different times
in the race, a crash or two, and the top five finishers.  You could do an 
interesting piece that wouldn't take more than 10 minute of air time.

	Zamboni	

My wife who never will even turn on any sports type show is watching the 
Olympics with me every night. She is really getting PO'ed when I surf over 
to ESPN to watch hoops when the fluff drivel begins. 
The morning coverage isn't great but you have to admit that the Paula Zahn's 
and Harry what his name are pretty enthusiastic to get the chance to talk
about something other than the crappy east coast weather and how tough the 
commute is into the New York studio. 

Jeff 

�>>>    Do you really think the majority of CBS viewers are sports nuts?
�
�	Yes!
    
    And what brings you to this conclusion?  The fact that networks usually
    lose money covering events like this?  If there were that many sports
    nuts they should be making money hand over fist.  That they go after
    these events more for the prestige and the chance to promo their
    regular lineup?
    
    I see we finally have somebody coming clean to say they watch the race
    looking for the crashes.  Now if the motor sports and hockey fans would
    start coming clean...

I watched Monday.

	It was a hockey game that I didn't care about, and the rest was exactly
what CBS had shown the night before.  I wasn't impressed.  Maybe I caught 
them on an off day.

	t

>>  It's enough to make you start liking Ted and Jane,

	Could care less about Ted, but "I'm_not_fonda" Jane...no way, no how
	not a freaking chance!


	billl

>�>>>    Do you really think the majority of CBS viewers are sports nuts?
>�
>�	Yes!
>    
>    And what brings you to this conclusion? 

	Based strictly on the people I know who say they are watching.  All 
are complaining about the fluff.  My wife, who likes it, will admit that there's
a bit much, and the skating coverage is over covered.  Not looking at financials
at all.  

>The fact that networks usually
>    lose money covering events like this? 
	
	If they didn't have so many people over there doing fluff, they 
probably wouldn't be need so much.  David Letterman said $40k a day for 
his mom and her crew.  I'm sure that's inflated, but probably not terribly
so.  Times that by all the CBS sports crew.  

	I realize money talks, and the rest walks.  Probably their reason
for the fluff.  It just seems to be that 2/3rds+ is fluff.  I'd be happy
at around 50%, and they'd probably have the same ratings.

	Crashes are Cool!  Especially in X-country with minor injuries and
great powder shots.  

	Zamboni

    
    
>>	Now if the motor sports and hockey fans would
    	start coming clean...
    
    
    
    	yabbut Mac, you implying that -TH, Saw and /don are in need of a
    bath and a good deoderant??????
    
    I remain,
    seeing the pot calling the kettle again!
    ;^)
    Kev
    

  YES!!! YES!!! Team U.S.A. v. Canada LIVE coming up in a few minutes.

  Thank you Ted.

  George

>    looking for the crashes.  Now if the motor sports and hockey fans would
>    start coming clean...

Lemme guess, Mac.  You play rugby because you like the shorts, right?

�	Crashes are Cool!  Especially in X-country with minor injuries and
�great powder shots.  
    
    I can't picture much powder being kicked up by a cross country skiier
    crashing.  Downhill yes, cross country, no.  Maybe I just don't go fast
    enough.

	Anybody who watches these idiots frolic in the snows of Norway when 
they could be watching Sports Illustrated models frolic in bikinis deserve 
what they get!

				/Don

    re: .569
    
         World Class X-C Racers often hit speeds in excess of 45 mph on
    the downhill portions of the courses they run.  While this doesn't
    approach the 80 mph that a DH racer achieves, its still remarkable
    when one considers the toe only connection of the boot to ski, the skinny
    skis, the lack of a helmet, and the fact they may have already skied
    47.5 kilometers of a 50k race, and be well into oxygen debt.  To put 
    this in further perspective, the average recreational skier at your local 
    ski area rarely gets the opportunity to achieve speeds of 25 to 30 mph.
    
    Russ

hmm, I thought TNT wouldn't show USA-Canada since CBS was showing
chunks of it tonight.

The Crazy Met

RE      <<< Note 155.573 by METSNY::francus "Boston-TheHubOfTheUniverse" >>>

>hmm, I thought TNT wouldn't show USA-Canada since CBS was showing
>chunks of it tonight.

  They just showed the whole 1st period live. I think part of the CBS
TNT deal has to do with TNT owning hockey, especially before the medal
round. I imagine CBS will have the gold medal game.

  TNT is doing a filler piece now, but at least they are talking about
the hockey background of one of the Team Canada players. He also plays
for Maine University.

  George

    So what's the score????????????????????

�To put 
�    this in further perspective, the average recreational skier at your local 
�    ski area rarely gets the opportunity to achieve speeds of 25 to 30 mph.
    
    Like I said, I'm probably not going fast enough.

�    So what's the score????????????????????
    
    My esteemed co-moderator has kindly set up a separate Olympic
    Scoreboard topic.  Please check your local listings for more detail.

    Thank you kindly for providing me with that information in a timely
    and pleasant manner.
    
    NAZZ
    

    
    How about that Bodine sled ? Gold old USA technology at work developed
    with the NASCAR chassis boys. Looks like they have a real screamer. 
    Fully adjustable chassis, data ack stuff on board, IBM doing all the
    computer work. God, I love those IBM marketing guys.
    
    The Europeans are running for cover, and I think they will be really
    pissed if these guys medal. 
    
    Another feature of racing improving the breed. Go get em, and don't let
    that wuss Dan ("the ice sure is slippery") Jansen near it.
    
    Later
    

	When is the bobsled, both 2 and 4 man, supposed to start?


	billl

    What is wrong with the Russian hockey team this year,they got beat
    again today,it looks like they may miss the medals round for the 
    first time.
    
    
    Tom

RE Bobsleads

  The Bobsled schedule is as follows:

  Saturday   Feb 19,     2 Man Sleds
  Sunday     Feb 20,     2 Man-finals
  Saturday   Feb 26,     4 Man Sleds
  Sunday     Feb 27,     4 Man finals

RE What happened to the Russian Team?

  The NHL.

  By the way TNT reported that there is a problem with the money paid to the
Russian hockey clubs as compensation for the Russian players playing in the
NHL. It seems that the money is disappearing. Some are saying into Swiss bank
accounts and some are saying that the Russian Mafia is involved. 

  George 

    There is no Red Army team anymore.  If there was, you'd still have a
    team with a line like Bure, Federov and Mogilny.  The team was put
    together a few weeks ago.  They have less experience together than
    the US team.
    

    >    There is no Red Army team anymore.  If there was, you'd still have a
    
    must've been someone else posing as them that played the Roadrunners
    here this week.

    Is it the same all over or what.
    
    What I mean is, the local newscasts all started off yesterday with the
    "story" that Nancy K. and Tonya H. skated at the same time on the ice
    without any incidents.  WTF did they expect, Tonya to show up with a
    9mm to finish off Nancy, or Nancy to show up wif a hokey stick, knife
    attached to the end, for revenge.
    
    I'm sick of the freakin' "story".  The damned newspapers all have these
    pictures of the two passing on the ice........Chripes sake, let the
    f__king thing go, eh!!
    
    JaKe
    

    	I think the Russians miss Communism.  I do too.  It's like when
    'rasslin turns a bad guy good.
    
    				/Don

    
>>   I'm sick of the freakin' "story".  The damned newspapers all have these
>>    pictures of the two passing on the ice........Chripes sake, let the
>>    f__king thing go, eh!!
	
	You mean like Mac letting go of the "Pittsburgh fans unable to get
	over Bonds leaving" tripe?  Fat chance!!!


	billl

    Hey billlllllllllllllll, sounds like a great idea for a contest.  Let's
    predict who we'll hear the last from -- Pittsburghers complaing about
    Barry Bonds or the media doing another piece on Kerrigan/Harding.

    Do all of us, MAC, and yerself too.
    
    JaKe
    

    Mike,
    I thought that was the Moscow Penguins, the Penguins "farm" team.

    So the Russians had a bunch of players go to the NHL.  Big Deal.  The
    Canadiens have a lot of players there as well, as does the US.  If I
    remember correctly, the breakdown is something like:
    
    Canadiens - 320
    US	      - 90
    Russians  - 60
    
    					Steve

    Which is the makings for the NHL's version of Dream Team '98...
      

  The TNT announcers mentioned another reason for the Russians losing players.
It seems that the players on the Russian clubs have to live at their camp 8
months of the year only seeing their families on weekends. Because of this, not
only are they losing their best guys to the NHL, but with the lack of travel
restrictions, guys are leaving to play in the minors and for clubs in other
leagues in North America and Europe. 

  Anyway, being sick at home I got to see 2 full days of coverage on TNT. What
a difference, lots of luge, the ski jump half of the Nordic combined, the
Russian German hockey game, and no fluff to speak of. They're doing a fine job.

  Well, back to CBS, TNT is off until Tuesday,

  George

    How about that wink?
    

Actually, I kind of enjoyed the Bill Geist spoof of Ice Dancing...

That was about all I enjoyed....8^)

>  Hardly the 1st exaduration by a sports announcer,
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^


You ought to (tm) that baby, George.....

I have to admit that Ski Jumping has to be one of the top sports for men/women
with very large filberts. The camera angles are excellent showing just how 
it looks to the competitor and just how close to a controlled fall these
guys are. 

The crowd noise was phenominal. 

Jeff

RE    <<< Note 155.598 by CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH "Lindsey is four years old!!!!" >>>

>               -< Bolero - wasn't that a dumb Bo Derek movie??? >-

  No, the movie was "10". The Bolero was the music that Bo put on while
seducing Dudley More.

  Torvel and Dean used the same music for their free program in the 1984
Olympics. It was a very artistic and skillful program which revolutionized Ice
dancing and helped them win the Gold metal. They got perfect 6.0's for artistic
impression. 

  George

>               -< Bolero - wasn't that a dumb Bo Derek movie??? >-

>>  No, the movie was "10". The Bolero was the music that Bo put on while
>>seducing Dudley More.
    
    Bo Derek also was in a movie called "Bolero".
    
    - Rope

    

Uhh, yes Bo was in a movie called Bolero - I knew that becasue I was one of 73 
people in the United States that paid cash money to see it

    >> Bo was in the movie called Bolero- in a movie called "10"

       ..and her husband was in a movie called "The Ten Commandments"
    
       He's old!

    George,
    	I hope you're not comparing the Moon Landing with the Bobby
    Thompson homerun....?

    
    anybody have any updates on todays hockey game between Italy and the 
    USA???????
    
    
    s<