Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    Auto racing is not a sport. What's it doing in this conference?
    
    If it wasn't for the accidents, nobody would pay any attention to it.
    
    JoJ_NOT
    

    Stock car racing{?} in nothing but put the pedal to the metal and turn
    left...
    Dray racing is nothing but put the pedal to the metal and don't turn
    the wheel...
    
    go-cart racing takes more skill....
    
    REK

    and along the same lines as the previous reply, 
    
    I never said that functional brain cells was a requirement for
    participation either!
    
    Now,
    I remain,
    wondering how's THAT related?
    ;^)
    Kev
    

    Y'all better be careful. You'll get our Southern brethren all riled
    up. Especially the ones that carry the King Richard Petty air
    freshener in their pickups next to their dashboard pinup of Shirley
    Muldowney.
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    

>                       -< Honk if you miss King Richard >-

Honk.


One thing I've noticed about stock car drivers (and their crews) is that
they are really pretty down to earth and are willing to stop and talk
with ya.   

When I went to Pocono lasted year I had a GREAT time.....


And stock car racing ain't just turn to the left --  see the race at
Watkins Glen and the other road course.....  8^)


'Saw

    Actually 'Sawmain,
    Being a dfamned Yankee, I'm cold to auto racing, but if I was gonna
    enjoy any of them, it seems stock car racing would be OK.  I guess
    seeing it live (whoosh) makes all the difference. I'd be a willin
    to take in a stock car race.
    Maybe it would remind me of country music. I hate the damned stuff
    on the radio, but I sure do like it live, well, most _a_ the time.
    
    Patsy Cline rules ( loved her music since I was a_ignorant college
    kid).
    
    MikeL
    

    Ahhhhh.. I'm really touched that youse people miss me...
    
    Hugs and kisses...
    
    REK

>    Actually 'Sawmain,
>    Being a dfamned Yankee, I'm cold to auto racing, but if I was gonna
>    enjoy any of them, it seems stock car racing would be OK.  I guess
>    seeing it live (whoosh) makes all the difference. I'd be a willin
>    to take in a stock car race.

Back before I was born, my dad used to race at Waterford Speedbowl
in Waterford, Conn.  So I've been partial to stocks pretty much
because of that....

Plus, it's always a hoot to see just how many different "kinds" of
people there are in the stands, if you get my drift....


'Saw    

>    Maybe it would remind me of country music. I hate the damned stuff
 >   on the radio, but I sure do like it live, well, most _a_ the time.
    
>    Patsy Cline rules ( loved her music since I was a_ignorant college
>    kid).
    
>    MikeL
 
    Mike, from your note it would seem that you saw Patsy Cline live during
    college.  I thought only lEe was old enough for that.
    
    Brews   

I read .1, and not the rest, but in response to JOJ-NOT, I'll enter the
traditional

"oh yeah, you try driving a car at 200 mph for 5 hours in hot, dusty
conditions.  Those boys are in great shape and its a really tough
sport, and blah blah"

Personally, I'd rather watch synchronized swimming then a car race.

JD

    Brews,
    HAHA. Not live, suh.
    We enjoyed playing air hockey whilst listening to Patsy Cline and
    Little Feat on the jukabox.
    
    
    MikeL
    

    
    There's a fat man in the bathtub...

    
    Guys,
    
    To  say it's not a sport is ignorant, but I don't want to open up a
    rathole, seems there has been to many in here already.
    
    Road racing, is tough, no matterif it's in a car or on a bike.
    
    Anyone who doubts it can come with me to the track and get a first hand 
    look at it. Making armchair decsions about something that most (if not
    all of you)  have never done really is'nt fair to guys like me who
    roadrace and consider it a tough, physical,mental and very demanding SPORT.
    
    JuI just get a little worked up over the issue, thats all.
    
    
    -TH

    re:-.1
    
    Didn't JD already say all that?
    
    re: JD
    
    Actually, JD, it might be more fun watching paint dry.
    
    re: Fatman in the Bathtub
    
    Great song, but, it's no "Spanish Moon".
    
    JoJ_NOT
    
    JoJ_NOT
    
    

>>    Y'all better be careful. You'll get our Southern brethren all riled
>>    up. Especially the ones that carry the King Richard Petty air
>>    freshener in their pickups next to their dashboard pinup of Shirley
>>    Muldowney.
  
    Is that the sir freshener that smell like a combination of axle grease,
    used engine oil, *BAD* BO, and beer f@rts?????
    
      
>>One thing I've noticed about stock car drivers (and their crews) is that
>>they are really pretty down to earth and are willing to stop and talk
>>with ya.   

    Yabbut, use any word with more than 2 syllables and they just look at
    ya funny.
    
    These are the same guys that, fer entertainment, have friends over and
    show them that they know right where the spot is on their dog that
    makes him flip his rear leg like crazy when they scratch it:
    
    "Hey Yaaaaaaaaawl, come on over heyar and watch what I cin dew to Ole
    Blue, heeeyuck, heeeyuck, heeeyuck."
    
    
    Schnort Schitt Schleps
    
    JaKe
    

     Hummmm....I'm sure Joe Gibbs would agree with ya.    :^)

    Good to see 'ya JaKe, I was wondering where you were this afternoon.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I were busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest.
    
    
    JaKe
    

Well, I for one have a lot of respect for Richard Petty.  The man is
a very genuine person, and always took the time for his fans.  In this
day and age of the Superstar Athlete who charges for autographs, and
looks down on his fans, Richard Petty was accessible, approachable, and
always willing to share a moment of his time.

As to NASCAR fans, yeah, there are a lot of yahoos, but for the most
part, most of the people I've met who are NASCAR fans are down to earth
folks.  I met some really nice folks last July.

True, some of them have "the disease", but then again, who doesn't, albeit
for different things.   I know folks who were as fanatic about firefighting
or playing bingo on Saturday night, or about playing rugby ;^)


And to be quite honest, it's kind of nice to get out amongst a bunch
of plain folks once in a while, and get away from some of the yuppie
scum that is pervading this area these days 8^)



As to how tough NASCAR racing is, I won't get into that rathole.  I know
that up close when those cars roar it's enough to make your heart jump
into your throat, so you know there is some power there (ugh, ugn, ugh).....

And I would imagine that the concentration that it takes is pretty intense
too -- as would be the case with any form of racing....


jmho,
'Saw

    Bobby Rahal told me drivin' NASCAR was like driving trucks...
    
    

>    Bobby Rahal told me drivin' NASCAR was like driving trucks...


He would say that 8^)


The NASCAR drivers seem to do pretty well in IROC competition though....8^)


'Saw    
    

Well, the "Super Bowl of Auto Racing" was held yesterday.

The Daytona 500 was pretty interesting actually.  

Dale Jarrett, son of former NASCAR champ Ned Jarrett, took the checkered
flag in an exciting finish.  Dale Jarrett drives the Interstate Batteries
car which is owned by Redskins coach Joe Gibbs.   Needless to say
the coach was a VERY happy man.


Unfortunately, my favorite driver, Rusty Wallace went out of the race
on lap 168 of 200 when he was tagged in the right rear quarter by 
Derrick Cope.   Wallace's accident was more spectacular than the 
Davey Allison accident at Pocono last summer.   He started sliding sideways,
got airborne, flipped about 20-30 feet in the air, came down, rolled
8-10 times, and came to rest right side up.    Wallace, a little shaken,
walked away from the crash.


The GM cars cleaned up on the Fords.  The best Ford finish was Geoff
Bodine in 3rd.

Dale Earnhardt, another son of a former NASCAR driver finished second.
It was his 15th attempt to win Daytona and he was leading until the last
lap....


Good start to the season, can't wait to go to Pocono!

'Saw

    
    Poor Dale E... continues to Snuffy Smif' it in the Big One... although
    winning an individual race is so much a matter of luck (blowing a tire 
    on the last lap isn't quite the same thing as going to the 4-corners 
    too early), and the five Winston Cups kinda help make up for it.
    
    I guess CBS doesn't care too much about journalistic integrity with
    commentator Ned Jarrett openly rooting son Dale on home... but I've got 
    to admit that I liked it!  The major team sports would never allow for
    such bias without the network switchboards lighting up.
    
    glenn
       

>    Poor Dale E... continues to Snuffy Smif' it in the Big One... although
>    winning an individual race is so much a matter of luck (blowing a tire 
>    on the last lap isn't quite the same thing as going to the 4-corners 
>    too early), and the five Winston Cups kinda help make up for it.

Outta the last five years he's been in a position to win it in four of them.
It must be tough.  But, like you said, five champeenships does help.


>    I guess CBS doesn't care too much about journalistic integrity with
>    commentator Ned Jarrett openly rooting son Dale on home... but I've got 
>    to admit that I liked it!  The major team sports would never allow for
>    such bias without the network switchboards lighting up.
    
Well, fwiw, I didn't mind it.  I heard Ned's call on Dale's first ever
win a couple of years back and he was subdued.  When they showed him on
camera he had a really HUGE grin though.

I liked it yesterday, because Ned had been there before, actually running
out of gas when in a position to take Daytona.  Since Daytona is literally
their Super Bowl, I could forgive Ned....8^)


btw, I've met Ned and he is one of the most down to earth, sociable folks
I've ever met.  He took time to chat even when he was in a hurry, and
was not condescending at all.....


'Saw       

    Didn't find it different from ABC having Bobby Unser do the INDY 500
    when Al or Al Jr. wins it...
    
    Dick Trickle was the first guy out, that I could see anyway...
    

>    Dick Trickle was the first guy out, that I could see anyway...

Yeah.

Ol' Dick is an interesting guy.  He's got a cigarette light in his
car so he can light up during cautions!  8^)


I found the race very enjoyable.  A few of the drivers said that though
they didn't like restrictor plates, it sure made for some interesting
racing.

And it says something for the safety of the cars when all Rusty Wallace
got was a cut chin and a few bruises....


'Saw    

    Having raced Daytona twice I must say that it's no place for mistakes.
    
    The chassis builders in NASCAR are probably the best in the world, to
    withstand a crash like that and walk away is amazing.
    
    My spring daytona trip was just scapped due to lack of funds, Bummed ?
    You bet.
    
    -TH

>    Having raced Daytona twice I must say that it's no place for mistakes.

I'd agree there.  The pisser of it was that Rusty was in front of
Cope and Waltrip when the worst of it happened, and he just happened
to get clipped in the back end....

    
>    The chassis builders in NASCAR are probably the best in the world, to
>    withstand a crash like that and walk away is amazing.

Agreed.  This is twice now I've seen cars have "massive" accidents.
Rusty walked away and Davey Allison had a couple of fractures.
If it had been and Indy car or another type of car, they drivers might
not have been so lucky.
    
>    My spring daytona trip was just scapped due to lack of funds, Bummed ?
>    You bet.
    
That's a MASSIVE bummer.


My brother was supposed to have tickets to the 500.  A girl he works with
is on the mailing list and buys the tickets every year.  She had given
him her tickets this year -- she'd order them and give them to him.

Her order form never came.  When she called the speedway it turns out
that they did indeed receive the order form, from someone else.   Seems that
the Post Office put the form in the wrong PO Box, and the unscrupulous
person who received it used it instead of returning it....


He's still enjoying his Florida vacation however.....


'Saw

A friend called me up and told me that Rusty Wallace was going to be
on QVC last night.  They were selling NASCAR memorabilia.

I tuned in, because they interviewed him for a while before they started
selling stuff.  Of course, the first questions were about the accident.

Rusty got the cut (small "shaving" type cut) on his chin from his seat
belt harness.  He has his seat belts and fire suits made for him by
a guy named Bill Simpson. (Of Simpson helmets by any chance????).
Anyway, his harness is specially designed, and Rusty said that he felt the
harness was reponsible for keeping him in the seat as well as it did.  He
said an ordinary set up might have allowed him to come forward, causing
injuries.

He said that when he saw the two cars in front start to go (Waltrip and
Cope) and he went low and was almost by when he got hit in the right
rear quarter panel.  He tried steering left, but when the car came
around, he said he just made sure he hung onto the steering wheel
tightly (to avoid his arms flailing around possibly outside the car).

As soon as the car came to rest, Penske was on the radio asking him if
he was okay.  he said sure.


All in all it was pretty interesting stuff.


'Saw

    But what did you buy?
    

>    But what did you buy?


I didn't buy anything.   They had a lot of collectibles (like cards,
lithographs and things).  The one nice thing they had was a pewter stein,
(and I collect mugs and steins) but I didn't feel like buying anything.

I do like to go to the trailers when I go to the race.  If you want
t-shirts or hats and stuff that's the best place to get it.  The selection
of clothing last night was pretty slim.....


'Saw    

Well, my main main, Rusty Wallace, held off Harry Gant, and then Dale
Earnhardt to win the Goodwrench 500 at Rockingham yesterday.

Rusty took a lead about 2/3 into the race as his pit crew changed four and got
two cans of gas in in an unbelievably short time, ran well, lost the lead once
to Gant, but got it back with another phenonomenal performance from his pit
crew, and then ran in fron the rest of the way.

Wallace jumped from 32nd to 8th in the point standings, and said that it
was a great way to come back after his "flip" at Daytona.  

Needless to say I'm a happy camper this morning.....




And to touch on the call at Daytona by Ned Jarrett as his son was winning the
race, I heard from the announcers at yesterday's race that the producer
for CBS, when he realized that Jarrett was in the hunt on the last lap
and was probably going to win, told the other announcers to lay out, and
told Ned to feel free to cheer his boy on.   Ned, always a classy guy,
cheered Dale on but did not cheer against Dale Earnhardt.  


Not a bad day all around......   Looked like it was COLD at Rockingham
yesterday.....


'Saw

Rusty Wallace continued his good showing yesterday, finishing 2nd at
Richmond, behind my LEAST favorite driver, Davey-Boy Allison.

Rusty's pit crew continues to turn in the fastest times.  Rusty attributes
that to the off-season weight room workouts the entire team participated
in.

(There are a couple of BIG boys on that team, and the thought of them
being bigger and stronger and faster scares ME, and I ain't no lightweight
meself...)


'Saw

Well, this past week in auto racing was kind of a bummer.

But yesterday kind of started things back on the right track.   Rusty
Wallace took the 500 down in Bristol, Tennessee, for his second win of the
season.   It seems like the man is on a mission this year.   Several times
he was running second, but on pit stops under caution, his pit crew got
him the lead back.  Most notable was a phenomenal 16.1 second effort on
a four tire stop.

Rusty's pit crew is doing so well, and it's attributed to a strength and
conditioning program they instituted after last season, that other crews
are starting to feel that they must also have a strength and conditioning
program to keep up.

In six races, Rusty has won two, finished in the top five in three others.
So far the points race is shaping up between Rusty and Dale Earnhardt.


Following his win, Rusty took a "Polish Victory Lap" in honor of his friend,
Alan Kulwicki, and in one of the classiest displays I've ever seen, he
said in Victory Lane that the win was not for Miller Genuine Draft but for
his pal, Alan Kulwicki....


'Saw

    
    Ohh, Ribbing the sponsors ? They don't like it....
    
    
    -TH

>    Ohh, Ribbing the sponsors ? They don't like it....

Huh?

Well, it seems that the ONLY team sporting Black and Gold that had a
good weekend this weekend was the Miller Genuine Draft Pontiac of
Rusty Wallace.

Rusty won his THIRD race in a row, taking the Haines 500 in 
Martinsville VA.   He's now firmly entrenched at the top of the Winston
Cup point standings.

One of the biggest factors in his surge to the top has been his pit crew.
After an offseason in the workout room, complete with aerobics and weight
training, these guys are setting a new standard for pit stop times.

Next race is on a super speedway.  We'll have to see how Rusty, who usually
does better on short tracks, can do on the big oval.  He was doing well
at Daytona, before the crash, so it'll be interesting to see how he
does.


'Saw

    
    A great driver retired this weekend, his name :
    
    
    A.J. Foyt
    
    Good luck in his new job as team owner/director of a U.S. Tobacco
    backed car. A 24 year old replacement has been named as his successor,
    his name escapes me at the moment.
    
    -TH

    Robbie Gordon
    

    
    Intentionally posted in the WRONG conference just to ~/~ a certain
    "overly sensitive" HLO individual.    ;^)
    
    On Friday I acquired a pretty neat condition 1973 Triumph TR-6 and am
    looking forward to trekking along the backroads of NE over the summer
    before I do a ring job over the winter.  Got's to keep busy ya know.
    
    The only rust is a bit neat the passenger-door door jam, on the quarter
    panel covering a strip about 2" wide and 18" long.  Interior is in good
    shape and obviously the previous owners took a lot of time and spend a
    lot of effort to make sure that cosmetically it stayed in good shape.
    
    I'm still examining it to get a full status of it's mechanical
    condition, ie - how much is left on the clutch, condition of the drums
    and rotors, etc. 
    
    Anybody in da lockerroom ever have an affair with a British roadster?
    My first was a 1970 MGB, bought new.
    
    Of course, it'll only be driven in good weather!
    
    I remain,
    very unhappy that it's been/will rain for 5 straight days  :*(
    Kev
    

re: .42

I was owned by a 1973 MGB Roadster.  Bought it in 1978, finally got rid of it 
in 1984 or so.  Driving it was almost as good as sex. Those cars were true 
sports cars, not like the over-powered passenger cars with sleek bodies they
try to sell now.  Trouble was the MMG was only operational around 50% of the
time I owned it.  Every part of the car had major problems.

Always wished I had gotten a TR6 instead, it is a much more sound car.  I'm 
wicked jealous Kev.

=Bob=

BTW - I've heard that the Mazda Miata comes reasonably close to the true
      sports car feel.  Can anyone testify to this?

As I was telling Kev the other day, I had a friend who had a 1970� MGB.

She could never get it to run quite right, and was always tinkering with
it.  She finally sold it.

The guy who bought it was heavily into restoring old MGs and he too
was having a heckuva time trying to tune it.  Finally, he came back to
see her and get the manual.  He still could set the idle to the 
recommended setting (around 1400 if I remember).  The lowest he could
get it was around 1800.   

Well, it turned out that it was a limited edition of some sort with a
racing motor in it.  The recommended idle setting was 2100 rpm.


I've heard good things about the Miata, but I've never ridden in one....


'Saw

�The guy who bought it was heavily into restoring old MGs and he too
�was having a heckuva time trying to tune it.  Finally, he came back to
�see her and get the manual.  He still could set the idle to the 
�recommended setting (around 1400 if I remember).  The lowest he could
�get it was around 1800.   

If the carbs were the Smiths Union suckers, getting them to hold the idle was
a gargantuan task.  You could adjust them, go for a test drive, and by the 
time yo got back, they would be out of adjustment. I recall the reccomended 
idle on mine being from 1200 to 1400 RPM.

=bob=

Yeah, I don't know that much about it.  I do remember that it was most
definitely the kind of car you have to tinker with a lot.....

'Saw

    
    DLOACT::Carbuffs
    
    
    hahahahaha
    
    I remain,
    NOT_a_MtM_Wannabee!
    Kev
    

If you folks are getting a nice chunk of change together to get me
a birthday gift I want a Miata, color:Arrest Me Red. Heck of a car to
cruise in; especially down the Pacific Coast Highway around Mailbu (or
whatever they call that road in that area). Pure heaven!

The Crazy Met

    Sure, I'll take one if it's a gift.  Otherwise, I'll stick with the
    power bulge I bought... have to keep looking down to see I'm doing
    80 when I shouldn't be.

Walt's New Car :== The WoodyMobile!

    Schwing....

    
    Yabbut my 1970 was increadibly reliable.  Drove it every day, dumped
    it when it had 106,000 miles on it in 1974.
    
    Clutch was replaced at 96,000 and the only real black mark was the
    (what else?) 'lectrical (batteries in particular).  EVERY year I
    had to replace the pair of 6v's.
    
    I also used to race it in SCCA class "E" gymcana's (pylon courses).
    Now, I ain't claiming to be a Zeke, but one time I did finish in
    3rd place on a course that was scaled down and patterned after
    Watkins Glen.  I remember them telling me that my "probable"
    speed had it really been "da Glen" would have averaged something
    like 78mph.  That's not too shabby (imo) for a 1598cc 4speed
    roadster.
    
    I remain,
    unfortunately, having a hard time fully depressing the clutch
    pedal (VC doncha know.....)
    Kev
    

Walt what is your new car?

'Saw sure 'ya didn't mean the WoopyMobile

The Crazy Met

    'Saw didn't get the chance to make woopy in it...
    
    Got a Plymouth Laser... would have got the turbo if the speed limit was
    around 90, so I went for the options instead.  See Eclipse/Talon for
    car description....
    

    
    Yabbut remember -
    
    
    
    
    
    	"When this van's a rockin,
    
    		Don't come a knockin!"
    
    
    I remember,
    an expert contortionist in VW Bettles and MGB's!
    Kev
    

    Ok, true, you can store more beer in yours... but what's the point?
    I'd prefer the hotel/home route... then again, riding around in the
    laser doesn't bring thoughts of that Garth Brooks song... (hey,
    it's on  CLB now...)  There was a hunger even a boy could recognize...

    
     Kev, too bad that thang ain't rear-engined so's you'd have 
     sumpin' too keep your hands warm while your pushin' it.

First off, Bill's Van is a cool vehicle.   Why even now I cain see Slasher
sitting in that chair in the back, looking for all the world like
Don Slasherleone, the Godfather.

I didn't get a chance to make whoopy in Walt's car, mainly because there 
weren't any fair maidens at the bar that night that I could sneak out to
his vehicle.

Finally, for some reason I can see Kev bopping around the backroads....
Maybe it's because of that hat he wears....8^)


'Saw

	So, Walt, do listen to WCLB, Boston's newest C&W station, while
	driving you "boat" thinking about sports?


	billl

�     Kev, too bad that thang ain't rear-engined so's you'd have 
�     sumpin' too keep your hands warm while your pushin' it.

Funny thing is that even someone of Farleysize (like me) can push 
one of those suckers by hisself.  Shoot, a big dude like 'Saw could
probably pick it up and carry it under his arm.

=Bob=

=Bob=,

Yes, you are right, sir.  In fact, you have to be VERY careful when you
do that that you do not burn your arm on the hot exhaust system....


On a truer note, when I was in high school, a teacher we did not like
very much bought a little Honda Civic.  Four of us (and I was not strapping
then like I am today) managed to move the car from its parking space, and
up on the grass between two trees.  There was about 3" of clearance between
each bumper and the trees....

Fortunately, (and I don't know HOW) we were never caught.....


'Saw

    I station surf and you caught me this morning between WFNX and
    KISS-108.  BCN must have been in commercial.  I only check CLB
    out when I'm trying to fit in with you and Glenn and Saw and the
    kin folk.
    
    If I was in my finely tuned motor car, if I had the choice, I would
    have popped in a tape.  Here, I have my AM/FM discman so I don't have
    a tape deck, and I've played the janet. CD into the ground. Like now..
    let's see, "The finer things... We Belong...Cheers crap, California
    Dreamin, Sidewinder sleeps tonight..." ok, I'm set for now... (CLB had
    a commercial) 
    
    What is Willy T. Ribbs doing now?  Haven't heard from him lately.

  >> Funny thing is that even someone of Farleysize (like me) can push 
  >> one of those suckers by hisself.  
    
     Actually, the TR6 is a very cool automobile. I looked at a few 
     when I was in the martket for a convertible, but chickened out 
     because there's a whole bunch of things I'd rather be doing
     than working on my car. I went with the LeBaron convertible
     instead. It has no balls but I look real friggin' cool in
     it.

    I saw you cruisin down 495 last week, you were in the far right lane,
    you weren't THAT cool...
    

Can Tommy ever look COOL??

The Crazy Met

Tommy almost ALWAYS looks cool -- until someone has to help him put
his top up 8^)


Willie T. Ribbs is trying to qualify for this year's Indy 500.  I don't
know whether he has yet or not.....


hth,
'Saw

    I bet he could... in a nice suit, sipping Perrier, rooting for
    John Starks of Kevin Johnson... on his new cellular phone courtside.

Walt,

thats not fair, 'ya gotta put those kind of notes in when I don't 
have a cup of hot coffee in my hand.

The Crazy Met

    
    Which one is WCLB?  If it's 96.9, it's alright by me, because they have
    no talking heads and they're not playing any commercials until after 
    the 4th of July.  I don't believe in hell, but if I did, my best guess
    as to what it'd be like would be non-stop jabber from those Lorn and 
    Wally clowns and their cheesy laughtrack interspersed with the same
    three country music hits over and over again.  I put up with that for 
    about three minutes...
    
    glenn
    

   >> Can Tommy ever look COOL??

   >> The Crazy Met
    
      You just insist on hurting my feelings. Doncha? 
      (excuse me while I go have a good cry for myself)

moi, try to hurt your feelings, never!


(Anyone know of a smiley that means, what innocent me) :-)

The Crazy Met

	I'm sure Mr Brydie looked real cool on "Radditz Night" riding his
	ragtop in the pouring rain (with the top down).

	Glenn, WCLB is 105.7


	billl

    Una Paloma Blancaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaaaaaa.... 
    
    In school, the commercial would come on every day at 5:37 during Mash.
    We had all the songs down... Mike McCarthy could vouch for that...
    
    

Do you know that Slim Whitman is one of the biggest selling recording artists
of all time?

That fact amazed me when I heard it, since I think that instead of the USA
having the death penalty, we should take all of the serial killers, the rapists,
the cop killers, and the drug dealers and scummy people like that, and put
them in a room, and make them listen to Slim Whitman recordings 24 hours
a day, until they rip their throats out with their bare hands.....


I've always preferred Boxcar Willie....


'Saw

    Had a #1 hit in England longer than the Beatles and Elvis...
    
    Richard Clayderman had to be on the list too... I bet he was a closet
    stock car racing fan...

Kev,

 You've got 1 cool car their dude. I've got a '70 Midget myself but I've been
wanting to sell it for a couple of years now and pick up a TR6. No can swing
the finances right now with 1 baby and 1 on the way. 
 I'll probably put the Midget back on the road this week or next. I gotta get
it past emissions though after I dumped the dual SU carbs and put on a weber
instead. Runs great but the CO reading was high last year...Washington is
going to a dyno emission test this year so it'll probably pass...

 If you ever get sick of pushing in the clutch give me a ring and I'll fly back
east and take it off your hands and have a grand cross country tour...

 BTW - If you have any questions about it get on the british-cars mailing list
	at decpa::"[email protected]". I get the list in digest
	format myself so I only get 1 message a day. Some of the parts 
	suppliers are on the net as well as some of the most informed 
	british car fanatics you'll ever run across....


Metz
 

    
    >>Now, I ain't claiming to be a Zeke, but one time I did finish in
    >>3rd place on a course that was scaled down and patterned after
    
    SO two other guys actually showed up that day, eh??
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>I remember,
    >>an expert contortionist in VW Bettles and MGB's!
    >>Kev
    
    Contortionist???
    
    Sheeeit, you in a V-dub er EmGee would be like Tatoo in a freakin'
    Lincoln TownCar.
    
    JaKe
    

    Hey Kev, how big's the trunk in that car??
    
    Betcha it'll hold a 145 piece bedroom set, huh??
    
    
    
    That's a gross of rubbers and an inflatable army cot!!
    
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Ribbs qualified for indy on Saturday.
    
    Anyone see that Odouls commercial where it opens with a stock car race
    and the car is comming in for a pit stop ? It fades from the pit sign
    to this guys wife handing him an Odouls, and she says, "O.K. Jim,
    Backyard is next." Fade back to the racetrack, and he peels out on his
    sit down yard mower racing his buddy next door. I thought it was a neat
    commercial.
    
    -TH

I've seen that one -- I think it's kind of neat.

O'Doul's also has a golf commercial where it starts with the guy
in a dense rain forest, when in fact he's simply lost his ball
in the woods....

I like the new MGD commercial with Rusty's car.... kinda cool....


'Saw

    
    What happened to Rahal ?
    
    

From: [email protected] (SCOTT HORNER)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.motor,clari.local.indiana,clari.sports.top
Subject: Cheever's in, Rahal's out at Indy
Keywords: motor sports, men's professional
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 23 May 93 18:57:08 PDT
Location: indiana
ACategory: sports
Slugword: indy
Priority: major
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 568/633; Id: z5395; Sel: xxsap; Adate: 5-23-950ped; Ver: 14/0; V: sked
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: ysaprxx., &saprin., tnrb...., txia....
Lines: 57
 
	INDIANAPOLIS (UPI) -- Eddie Cheever was just following orders.
	After obtaining a car from team owner John Menard with just three
hours remaining in qualifying for the 77th Indianapolis 500, Cheever
earned a spot in the May 30 race by averaging 217.599 mph for four laps
in a 1992 Lola-Buick.
	Cheever's run knocked out defending IndyCar series champion Bobby
Rahal of the 33-car field, leaving the 1986 Indy champion on the
sidelines after 142 consecutive Indy-car starts.
	``I like to win and I didn't even qualify for the race,'' said Rahal,
who had qualified May 16 with a 217.140 mph average. ``Racing doesn't
favor anybody. You've got to prove it every day. I don't think I've ever
not qualified for the race.''
	Rahal hit the 2 1/2-mile oval in his backup Rahal-Hogan-Chevrolet
just before the track closed at 6 p.m. local time to make the final
qualifying attempt, but he was far short of bumping Kevin Cogan's
average of 217.230 mph.
	``I pretty much felt we were going to have to go out and defend it,''
Rahal said. ``(The backup car) had gone 220 (mph) in cool conditions.
With the wind, it wasn't quite ready. It doesn't take much to lose one
or two miles per hour.''
	Cheever's qualifying run came one-half hour after his initial attempt
in Menard's car, which would have been faster than three previous
qualifiers. However, Menard had the attempt waved off just before the
finish because he feared several drivers would have had time to post
better speeds and bump Cheever's car from the field.
	``So I'm stupid or brilliant,'' Menard said of his decision. ``I was
keeping a mental average of how fast he was going the first two laps and
knew it was low enough that he could possibly be bumped.''
	The driver didn't question the owner.
	``I didn't ask for an explanation. He had his reasons,'' Cheever
said. ``It could have been a decision that could have bit us in the
heels, but we're in.''
	Cheever put the car back in line and after four other qualifying
attempts were waved off, he took the track at 5:44 p.m. and drove two
laps at better than 218 mph before slowing on the final two laps. Still,
the 35-year-old Aspen, Colo., resident had enough speed to earn a spot
in his fourth Indy.
	Cheever, who started on the front row and finished fourth in last
year's Indy, will start 33rd this year. Didier Theys also qualified
Sunday, driving 217.752 mph in a 1992 Lola-Buick to knock Mark Smith
from the field.
	Cheever made the race after his Saturday qualifying run of 216.415
mph was bumped later in that session. He could not get his backup 1992
Penske-Chevy to qualifying speed and Menard offered the car Cheever
eventually qualified.
	``Compared to yesterday this is a walk in the park. It's a very
emotional thing,'' he said. ``I wanted to get into the show more than
anything in the world. You judge a month by how it ends and right now it
looks pretty damn good.''
	Theys started his attempt at 5:54 p.m. and drove a 219.378 mph first
lap. His speed dropped on each following lap, but his averaged still
bettered Smith's 217.150 mph.
	``You sit on the wall and see everyone. You get a lot of pressure,''
said Theys, a Belgian who earned a spot in his third Indy. ``You put the
helmet on, jump in the car and the pressure is off and you just drive
the car.''
	Rahal's unsuccessful attempt followed.

From: [email protected] (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.motor,clari.local.indiana
Subject: Indy 500 Qualifiers
Keywords: motor sports, men's professional
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 23 May 93 17:08:54 PDT
Location: indiana
ACategory: sports
Slugword: indy-qualifiers
Priority: regular
Format: table
ANPA: Wc: 439/0; Id: z4936; Sel: xxsap; Adate: 5-23-8ped
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: ysapaxx., &sapain., tnrb...., txia....
Lines: 79
 
        (Includes car number, driver name and hometown, chassis-engine
combination and four-lap average. W-former winner; Rrookie)
                             Row One
        1. 10, W-Arie Luyendyk, Scottsdale, Ariz., Lola-Ford Cosworth,
223.967 mph.
        2. 6, W-Mario Andretti, Nazareth, Pa., Lola-Ford Cosworth,
223.414.
        3. 9, Raul Boesel, Brazil, Lola-Ford Cosworth, 222.379.
                             Row Two
        4. 2, Scott Goodyear, Canada, Lola-Ford Cosworth, 222.344.
        5. 3, W-Al Unser Jr., Albuquerque, N.M., Lola-Chevrolet, 221.
773.
        6. 16, R-Stefan Johansson, Monaco, Penske-Chevrolet, 220.824.
                            Row Three
        7. 12, Paul Tracy, Canada, Penske-Chevrolet, 220.824.
        8. 5, R-Nigel Mansell, Clearwater, Fla., Lola-Ford Cosworth,
220.255.
        9. W-Emerson Fittipaldi, Brazil, Penske-Chevrolet, 220.150.
                            Row Four
        10. 40, Roberto Guerrero, San Juan Capistrano, Calif., Lola-Chevrolet,
219.645.
        11. 22, Scott Brayton, Coldwater, Mich., Lola-Ford Cosworth,
219.637.
        12. 7, W-Danny Sullivan, Aspen, Colo., Lola-Chevrolet, 219.
428.
                            Row Five
        13. 77, R-Nelson Piquet, Brazil, Lola-Menard, 217.949.
        14. 11, Kevin Cogan, Palos Verdes Estates, Calif., Lola-Chevrolet,
217.230.
        15. 36, R-Stephan Gregoire, France, 1991 Lola-Chevrolet, 216.
794.
                             Row Six
        16. 21, Jeff Andretti, Bethlehem, Pa., 1992 Lola-Buick, 220.
572.
        17. 8, Teo Fabi, Italy, Lola-Chevrolet, 220. 514.
        18. 51, Gary Bettenhausen, Monrovia, Ind., Lola-Menard, 220.
380.
                            Row Seven
        19. 18, Jimmy Vasser, Discovery Bay, Calif., 1992 Lola-Chevrolet,
218.867.
        20. 91, Stan Fox, Janesville, Wis., 1991 Lola-Buick, 218.765.
        21. 90, Lyn St. James, Daytona Beach, Fla., Lola-Ford Cosworth,
218.042.
                            Row Eight
        22. 76, Tony Bettenhausen, Indianapolis, Penske-Chevrolet,
218.034.
        23. 80, W-Al Unser, Albuquerque, N.M., Lola-Chevrolet, 217.
453.
        24. 84, John Andretti, Indianapolis, 1992 Lola-Ford Cosworth,
221.746.
                            Row Nine
        25. 41, Robby Gordon, Orange, Calif., Lola-Ford Cosworth, 220.
085.
        26. 15, Hiro Matsushita, Japan, Lola-Ford Cosworth, 219.949.
        27. 66, Dominic Dobson, Truckee, Calif., 1992 Galmer-Chevrolet,
218.776.
                             Row 10
        28. 50, Davy Jones, McGraw, N.Y., 1992 Lola-Chevrolet, 218.
416.
        29. 27, Geoff Brabham, Lantana, Fla., Lola-Menard, 217.800.
        30. 75, Willy T. Ribbs, San Jose, Calif., 1992 Lola-Ford Cosworth,
217.800.
                             Row 11
        31. 60, Jim Crawford, St. Petersburg Beach, Fla., Lola-Chevrolet,
217.612.
        32. 92, Didier Theys, Belgium, 1992 Lola-Buick, 217.752.
        33. 59, Eddie Cheever, Aspen, Colo., 217.599.
        Field average: 219.692 mph.
(end qualifiers)
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always provided for reports on that, since it's usually obvious.)

    
    >>What happened to Rahal ?
    
    He drove Kev's TR6 by mistake.
    
    Schnortt Schitt Schleps
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Est la Eendeeyanappolice quatre cent meeles eh lundi?  Ou est la
    premiere homme tu win?  Qu est-ce que penses?
    
    Je Rester!
    Kevin
    

>    Est la Eendeeyanappolice quatre cent meeles eh lundi?  Ou est la
>    premiere homme tu win?  Qu est-ce que penses?
    
CINQ cent......


Je pense que tu ne quitte pas ton travaille d'aujourdhui....


'Saw


    

    Yo no habla francais....
    
    Me encanta Arie Luyendyk...
    

    
    Konnichiwa!
    (Hello!)
    
    Watashi-wa nihongo gakusee-desu.
    (I am a japanese student)
    
    Hai Yuubinkyoko desu.
    ( I understand post offices)
    
    Kyoowa ii tenki-desu-ne.
    (Today's a fine day, isn't it?)
    
    Supootsu-wa yarimasen-deshita.
    (I do sports)
    
    Yakyuu-to.
    (Baseball)
    
    Tonari-ni suwatta obaasan-to iroro hanashi-o shimashita-ne.
    (We talked a lot to that old woman who sat next to us.)
    
    Ojama-shimashita.
    (I'll be going now)
    
    Sayoonara!
    
    Farley_san
    

    El Forque Ewe
    
    
    JaKe
    

	Here's the list of car shows scheduled for the Summer/Fall
	at Larz Anderson Park, aka The Museum of Transportation
    	(in Brookline, about 2 miles east of the Chestnut Tree
    	Mall off Route 9):

	6/19	Corvette 40th Birthday Celebration At Boston's Waterfront
		Park - across from Faneul Hall/Quincy Market

	6/20	Corvette Concours D'Elegance

	6/27	Gas and Brass

	7/11	Triumph - Fourth Annual Day of Triumph
	7/18	British Car Day
	7/25	Muscle Car Concours and Picnic

	8/1	Italian Car Day
	8/7	Concours D'Elegance Great Gatsby Dance
	8/8	Concours D'Elegance
	8/22	T-Bird Show
	8/29	Jaguar Club

	9-5	AMC Day
	9-6	All GM Show; BMW Vintage Fall Race with MOT at Lime Rock
	9-11	Mercedes Day
	9-19	BMW Concours
	9-26	Modified & Custom Cars & Model Car Club Exhibit

	10/2	Ferrari Concours & Foliage Tour
	10/3	VW Day
	10/10	Colonial Corvair Day
	10/17	Studebaker Drivers Club

    
    And don't forget the 70th running of the Loudon Classic at New
    Hampshire International Speedway 6/18,19,20.
    
    Yours truly will be up against the country's best.
    

    
    -TH,
    
    Good Luck!  Any expectations of how well you might do?
    
    I remain,
    Kevin
    

    
    Top 10 in endurance,  top 3 finish is not unrealistic.
    I'm going for the win in that one ! This a a 650cc and under racefor
    one hour, it used to be three hours and I took 6th in it in 91.
    
    600cc supersport is a horror show. ~ 80 bikes on the grid is possible.
    Looking for a top 20 finish, but just to finish is a major
    accomplishment. The start is about a hairy as any race gets, with no
    room to go but forward, 100hp bikes screaming at 13k rpm, elbow to
    elbow into turn one. Getting through the 1st lap  is probably the
    toughest, because NHIS is so tight. Turn three is another tough one
    because its a 2nd gear 90' right hander up hill. On the brakes hard,
    pitch the bike to max lean, straighten her up and pin the throttle.(All
    this time while trying to keep fromm being run over/through/center
    punched, and the front wheel wants to go up, up, and away.)
    
    Last years national was a wash, due to mechanical problems. It's a
    bummer to work so hard, wait all year, and have the bike $hit the bed 4
    laps into qualifying. All year the local racers wait  for the factory
    boys to come to our local track to race against them (actually I should
    say get spanked by them) and to not race is a bummer. This year I'm
    ready, New bike (1992 CBR600F2 Honda) and a fresh motor. Barring a
    disaster, I'll be there. This thursday I'll be up for 4 hours of open
    testing, Friday will be adjustment day, and sat-sunday we have a
    regional tuneup race before next weeks National event. Excited ? Naw.
    
    
                                                   

    
    JD, I suspect that you don't know the definition of a sport, I suggest
    that you look it up in websters. I really don't want to get into a
    pissing contest with you, but your closed view on roadracing to me is
    based on ignorance. Again, Feel free to come with me and work side by
    side with me at this weekends national. It will be a weekend that
    you'll never forget. Hell, I'll pay your gate fee (65$). When it's over, 
    I'll bet you'll have a  changed mindset. You've been feed a steady diet
    of megahyped sports that get all the airtime. This does'nt mean that
    other forms of competition are not sports. You really should get out more.
    
    A motocross (dirtbike) racer is one of the most physically demanding
    sports in the world. M/C roadracing is not as physically demanding, but
    it's up there. One mistake at speed on a fast track and it c-ya. Kind
    of makes you wonder how bad some of these so called hyped blow dried 
    superstar atheletes are today, they would crumble under this kind of
    pressure. Roadracers don't trash talk, they back it up with perfectly
    timed passes at 140 mph at max lean angle, and stuff the next next guy
    through the cicane. Tracks like Daytona, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Road
    America, just to name a few here in the states. Go to Europe and
    Roadracing in any form has a rabid fan base that blows away the Faux
    fans here in the states that follow [insert any contender here]. 
    
    
    My offer stands. Just wear a white pair of pant's for the pit on
    saturday, I'll supply the team shirt. Fair enough ?
    
    Michael Saia
    
    AMA/CCS expert #13
    AMA/GTU #110

�You've been feed a steady diet
�    of megahyped sports that get all the airtime. 
    
    If those megahyped sports are getting all the airtime, then why do I
    turn on the TV and keep seeing these guys driving billboards around in
    circles?

    >>If those megahyped sports are getting all the airtime, then why do I
    >>turn on the TV and keep seeing these guys driving billboards around in
    >>circles?
    
    COuld it be the fack that the average mega-hyped athlete only requires
    a bowl or two of wheaties, and an occasional steak, and an occasional
    box of Ex-Lax to clear their minds, whilst one of thewe "billboards"
    requires tons of money to keep on the road, whilst providing a
    vehicle(no pun) fer the sponsors to get exposure.
    
    JaKe

> vehicle(no pun) fer the sponsors to get exposure.
          ^^^^^^^

yeah, right.

The Crazy Met

JD will put on a pair of short nylon boxers and a $200 pair of runnin shoes
this weekend and jog around the neighborhood early before it get's too hot and
then play the good husband routine by mowin the lawn and weedin the pasta garden
Besides he don't look good in white pants.  

I used to race Motocross during the summers and I played hoops and track just
to keep in some kind of shape for the summer season. Coach used to get pissed 
off cause during the training runs I'd never get wore out.  

I don't have any knowledge on NASCAR type racing but I know that I don't enjoy
riding in any vehicle with a inside tempurature over 140 degrees. 

So is monster truck driving a sport as well? If you drive a drag racer are you
an athlete? Is rhythmic gymnastics or synchronised swimming sports? Is the
bobsled or Luge really a sport? Horseshoes,Bowling,battle of the network
stars, circus of the stars ,americas gladiators or roller derby?

Please list what are sports and what aren't...

Metz

    re-.1
    
    RODEO SEX!!!!
    
    Now that's a SPORT!!!!!!
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Being athletic or an athlete has nothing to do with what makes a sport. 
    For instance hunting is considered a sport yet most of the folks I know
    who hunt are hardly athletes. Unless beer drinking is considered being
    athletic :-)
    
    Sumo wrassling is another example. Are these overgrown overweight guys
    athletes? Maybe not but what they do is still considered a sport and
    anyone of them can rip off your haid and sh*T down your neck. :-)
    
      Ben

    
    Yabbut what about the "sport" of <synonym of really really vertically-
    challenged homo sapiens> tossing?  If'n it's a sprot, who's the
    athlete?
    
    Ah mean, isn'tit true you could make a arguement that it's similiar to
    the shot-put in track and it's the tosser?  BUT, doesn't the "tossee"
    have to be in good shape too?
    
    I remain,
    being confused by all this....
    Kev
    

Jeff -

Ha ha.  Never wear 200 dollar 'jogging' shoes.  I run at high noon. 

And anytime you want to name a distance to run at, I'm game.

Name it - a 5 miler, 10 miler, 26 miles?  I'll make it fair.  I won't
run for a month before it...I'll spot ya some time even. 

Motocross - geez, if ya did it on your own two feet, it would be
like trail running, cross country or ultras.  I'd be more impressed.


TH -

It may be athletic - but it ain't a sport in my book if you have
to rely on a MOTOR to power you.  Real athletes use their arms and
legs to power themselves.

To get more power and performance, they tinker with the engines, the
tires, the aerodynamics.  They don't tinker with the physique of
the driver.

Sorry, in my opinion, for example, its a  lot more athletic for a
human to accelerate from 0 mph to run 100 meters in a little over
9 seconds, then it is for some guy to do a 1/4 mile in a dragster.

My opinion.  Looking at the average race car driver, I don't see
an athlete.  I see a guy who cain smoke cigs (as I have seen many do)
and drive a car, in a controlled setting, fast.  Good reflexes, yep.
So do pilots.  So do jugglers.

So, are Monster Truck drivers athletes?

JD

Another useless pissing contest in SPORTS.


It don't much matter who's a athlete.  Motorcylce riding is physically
demanding.  And like many other sports today, there's a certain physique
type that tends to do really well at it, although there are exceptions
to the rule.

For the most part, if I remember correctly, most of the best are little
guys -- Eddie Lawson was only 5'7".  Was it Bubba Shobart that was like
6'6"?   It's a young man's sport too -- you heal faster when you're younger,
and a 27 year old bike racer is old, or so I've been told.

At any rate, it takes a great deal of finesse to move the bike around
the track.


That being said, it's all in what you enjoy.  I know guys that race
cars.  My dad used to race.  The thrill for them is in all phases of
the event -- there's a little bit of everything involved there.

Yes, driving those cars is physically demanding, be it a Forumla I,
Indy, or NASCAR car.  It takes finesse, skill, endurance.   

And like a lot of other sports, the teams who are doing the best this
year in NASCAR are the ones with fitness programs.



So bottom line, it's all in what you like.  


'SAw

    	On the front of the latest VeloNews (competitive bicycle racing),
    	they had a chart listing how many calories a day some athletes
    	eat.
    
    		Sumo wrestler	18,000 calories a day
    		Pro bicyclist	 8,000 calories a day
    
    	Those were the two highest. Every other athlete ate fewer
    	calories a day.
    
    	Scott

>    Being athletic or an athlete has nothing to do with what makes a sport. 
>    For instance hunting is considered a sport yet most of the folks I know
>    who hunt are hardly athletes. Unless beer drinking is considered being
>    athletic :-)
 
	Care to come climb a few mountains with me elk hunting this
	year smart guy?  And, I'll thank you not to generalize all
	hunters like that.  It's hard enough knowing there's a few
	slob hunters out there without you perpetuating the myth that
	we're all like that.

Claybone

                    
>	Care to come climb a few mountains with me elk hunting this
>	year smart guy? 
    
    Yabbut you don't have to have the gun to participate in the sport of
    mountain climbing.  Strictly speaking, just the beer is sufficient for
    the hunting part...  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    Better yet, care to drag a 237 pound white-tailed buck out of a swamp
    2.5 miles back to camp?  Started at 7:30 am and got back to the
    camp around 8:00 that night.
    
    Mark.

    
    JD,
    
    My offer still stands. This weekend you have a chance to see a so called
    non sport, with so called non atheletes, competing in M/C roadracing,
    at the highest level of roadracing in the U.S. All the factory teams
    will be there, and I get to butt heads with them, you will have a front
    row seat compliments of me.
    
    Upon leaving, I *KNOW* your mindset and attitude will be changed.
    Tossing around my motorcycle this weekend with 15 pounds of leather on
    in 90 degree plus weather, takes a little bit of being an athelete.
    Most top Roadracers compete hurt too. I don't mean a hangnail or a fake
    groin pull either. I'm talking about a pinned ankle, seperated
    shoulders, broken scapulas, and usually plenty of broken or missing
    hand components. Talk about playing with pain, it's unparalleled in any
    other sport. Opps, there's that word again.
    
     

Caint go, even if I wanted to.   He seems to miss my opinion, however.

If you need a motor to propel yerself, it ain't a sport.  I don't care
about the sweat, the injuries, etc... Without the mechanical means - you
go no where.  Your bodies power does nothing to make it go.

Hey, I don't like motorized recreational endeavors either - liek
snowmobiles, etc.,  adn I loathe Winnebagos and other things that
let people "think" they are camping.

I always figure that folks who can't do it themselves fall back and
get the mechanical crutch, then talk themselves into that they are
doing something sporting cuz they sweat. 

Hey even synchronized swimmers don't need no steenking motors to help
them out.

JD

re:.113

Are you sure you didn't mean:

>Hey JD...  give in and go with him.  Please. 
And then stay.

:-)

The Crazy Met

    
    
          Using JD's logic (mr Spock). Hunting isn't a sport either. Unless
    you wanna go out there w/o a gun and take on a deer or bear single
    handed, instead of using a girlymon gun.
    
    
    Chappy

So therefore sailing would not be a sport, nor would surfing.

Since sailing is not a sport, they'd have to take it out of the
Olympics.

Skydiving wouldn't be a sport (you're not propelling yourself).

Horse racing isn't a sport, nor is dog-sled racing,

Bobsled racing or luge racing is not a sport (you're not propelling 
yourself).


Wow, wait till the IOC hears about this!


'Saw

Chappy -

But, since the hunter does the walking, and the dragging, not to mention
the gutting, its okay.  If you hunt using a motorcycle or a 4wd, that's
girly mon.  Of course,the real pure hunting is running downthe deer and
killing it wif yer hands.

Saw:

Sailing don't use no motor.  Luge and Bobsled you push the device to
get it moving, you don't crank a key and hit da gas....

Horse racing is a sport for the horse.  That's why Secretariat was
Athlete of the Year.  THe Jockey is just along for the ride ;-)

Skydivin - who the hell said skydiving was a sport?  Its recreation...

Bus drivers sweat - heck Ralph Kramden always had a wet shirt - but
was it a sport?  ;-)

JD

    
    Well I thought that I put forth a reasonably good effort to make someone
    aware of what I consider quite a sport. So much for being open minded.
    To each his own.
    
    Later

    
    
      Now you did it JD.
    
    Chappy

	Webster defines Sport as follows 

	1. an outdoor or athletic pastime

	2. fun ; diversion

	3. jesting ; a subject of diversion

	4. (Colloq) Sportmanlike person; a sporting man , display ostentatiously
            play frolic


      Cadzilla2

	sport (sp�rt,sp�rt) n. 1.An active pastime; diversion.	
		2. A specific diversion usu. involving physical
		exercise and having a set form or body of rules;
		game. 3. Light mockery. 4. One known for the
		manner of his acceptance of defeat or criticism:
		_a_good_sport_. 5.  _Informal_  One who lives a
		gay, extravagent life. 6. _Genetics_ a mutation.

		From the Middle English "sporten", to amuse.



That's from the American Heritage Dictionary.


Therefore I would put forth the proposition, that all of the activities
we discussed, are sports, whether propelled by a motor, propelled
by gravity, or propelled by hot air.  They are an active pastime or
diversion, and usually involve physical exercise.

Why, even JD's notes are sport, since they involve light mockery.


Well, I guess that about wraps that one up.....



'Saw

Which is fine Saw, but as I've said, to me, if you need a motor
to do your sport, or your diversion, then it ain't a sport to me.

As I said, I call 'em mechanical crutches.  Can't do it on your
own power, so you got to get that fake testoterone rush of using
an artificial means of getting the power.

Give me a swimmer over a jetski any day.  Give me the pure
athleticism of a rugby match over a demolition derby.  Give me
Carl Lewis over Big Daddy Garlits.  Marie Jose-Perc over Arton Senner.

Like I said, to me its akin to driving to a camping area in a 18
foot Winnebago and calling it 'camping', or 'seeing' the Rockies 
by driving the trail ridge road and stopping at the picture points, instead
of strapping on a 70 pound backpack and doing it wif yer own power, 
sleeping under da stars, and leaving the motors back home.

JD

    
    
    So #5 is why Martina started playing Tennis Huh?
    
    
    Chappy

�or propelled by hot air.  
    
    By this definition I guess an LDUC is a sport.

    With all due respect JD, who cares what you think?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Whattsmatta Crispy, you fit into the Winnebago category?

And who cares what you think about Dean?

JD

See, JD, I take a different approach in my definition.

There have been very few inventions in the history of mankind that 
folks haven't tried some way to make a game out of.

Before man invented horses 8^), he tried racing on foot.  That by the
way is why man invented the jock strap, to keep his johnson from flailing
wildly around in the 100 yard dash and beating his testicles senseless.

After man invented the horse, he figured out that it was more fun to
race with someone whilst riding the horse.  It was at this point he invented
the cup to go along with the jock strap, so as to keep Bert 'n Ernie
from being battered senseless by his impacting the horse's spine.

Down through the ages, inventions would spur games.   First, you had
spear throwing.  Now, in spear throwing, some guys were accurate, and
some where distance throwers, so you had a couple of offshoots -- 
spear throwing for accuracy and spear throwing for distance.   The guy
who invented spear catching didn't last too long, thus proving Darwin's
theory of natural selection.

When man invented the motorcar, immediately folks decided that it
was something you could race, and from there it took off.   You're not
really racing the car, you're racing the other guy, and it just so
happens that part of it has become better preparation and stuff like
that.

It's man's competitive instincts that leads him to find a way to 
compete with almost anything at his disposal.  It's just the way it is.


I'm sure that the first foot racers looked down on the guys who
raced horses, and the horse racers looked down on the guys in the cars,
I'm sure that nude foot racers thought that foot racers wearing jock
straps were sissies and they looked down on them.

Everybody looked down on the spear-catchers, especially when they were
burying them.


So that's kind of my cut at it.  If there's competition, and there's
some physical activity and perhaps finesse involved, it's a sport.
Is it athletics?  Not necessarily, but it is a sport.....


'Saw

    Now look what you did, JD.  You riled up ACChris and you got 'Saw
    writing essays agin.

    My personal opinion on this is that JD's still got a stick up his
    posterior cause a (unnamed) ex-Noter once called his most favorite
    pasttime "Jogging".
    
    Haw haw!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
      Eevery once in awhile Ack gets off a haw-haw.

Nope, wrong, as usual Crispy.  Especially coming from someone
who's Height of Athletic Memories seems to be shaking hands
with a Choking Legend.

Its sad when you have to use MrT to try to back up a point
of you - given all the bad things you called MrT over the
years.  

JD

    If competition defines Sport, then does the Pilsbury National Bakeoff
    qualify as a sport?

Tommy -

Actually, Crisp just misspells HEE HAW every now and again.

JD

Mac -

Only if they use wood stoves.

HTH,

JD

    Inquiring Minds JD:  Is Jogging A SPORT?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    JD attacks the #1 "Sport" south of the Mason-Dixon line and ACChris
    gets all huffy.  Then again, isn't ACC as much a Southener as he is a
    grad of UNC?

   >> Actually, Crisp just misspells HEE HAW every now and again.
    
      I doubt it as he's probably got every episode on tape. But
      even over in that circle jerk Dean note, he does manage to
      make me chuckle every now and then.

    
    
>>				 5.  _Informal_  One who lives a
>>		gay, extravagent life. 6. _Genetics_ a mutation.
    
    So, LIBERACE was a SPORT, then, right?????
    
    Inquiring minds and all those SLOFs
    
    JaKe
    

Chrisp -

I don't know, I don't jog.   So Crisper, just what sport
do you partake in?   C'mon Crisper, fess up.  Is driving to
work everyday a workout?   

But, for those who jog, I put that in recreational or fitness
activity, such as aerobics, etc.  Activities specifically 
designed to provide exercise for reasons of cardio-vascular
fitness or other fitness.  

So, you got big finger muscles from working that remote, big boy?

JD

    
    How much "athleticism" does it take to run, especially long distances
    anyway?  Granted it takes a lot of practice, but I can't see that it
    takes a lot of talent.  I figure people who enjoy watching cars go
    driving around in circles hundreds of time would like the mental challenges
    of jogging.
    
    
    brews

Brews -

It takes a fare amount of athleticism.  I think the image is downplayed
by the myriads who road race at snail's paces.  

The top runners do 26 miles at what, about 4:40 pace, have amazing
cardio-vascular systems, are almost all muscles (no body fat to 
speak of), have great flexibility.  They constantly meet or stretch
the limits of physical ability, without the aid of a motor.       

When I was at the top of 
my performance, I was extremely flexible, very low fat, and I
excelled at any sport I did for fun - like hoops, base/soft ball, 
football, etc...

But, hey, I figure a lot of folks get tired walking from their
desks to their cars at night.  And jogging and running are two
different animals.  The difference between a jogger and a runner
is akin to the difference between say a slow pitch softball catcher
and Barry Bonds, or the difference between a Sunday Morning flag
footballer like the departed Dr. Midnight and Emmit Smith.

But hey, I like that now you are playing big brother to Accrisp.  
The BOSS, defender of the weak ;-)

JD

    ACC Chris' Athletic Resume
    ==========================
    
    Current	Tennis.  Both USTA (4.0 rating) and ALTA (A-6 level, if'n
    		that means anything to you outside of Atlanta).
    
    1975-1983	Jogging.  Ran Cross-Country in High School and College.
    		Best 10K time:	34:06
    		Best Marathon Time (Foxboro, MA): 2.59:27
    
    1974-1977	JV Baseball; Varsity Baseball.  (My HS had over 2200
    		students - around 80 kids tried out for the team.  I
    		frankly admit I sat the bench on the varsity.)
    
    1977-1981	Collegiate (Division 3) Baseball.  Started at SS for my
    		admittedly small college and pitched some as well.  However 
                we played the likes of Providence College, Sacred Heart 
                (a Division 2 powerhouse), and Quinnipiac (strong Div. 2).
    
    Overall I've probably played more basketball than anything else though.
    Strictly intramural and leagues.  Was the game announcer for our 
    colleges home hoops games.  For a small school we had a powerful
    basketball team, relatively speaking.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

	JD

	I musta missed somethin' here. (Which is highly possible.) If'n
	you don't jog what was it you doin' with dat young lady today?


	billl

>>    1977-1981	Collegiate (Division 3) Baseball.  Started at SS for my
>>    		admittedly small college and pitched some as well.  However 
>>              we played the likes of Providence College, Sacred Heart <-----|
>>              (a Division 2 powerhouse), and Quinnipiac (strong Div. 2).    |
									      |
	JaKe, isn't this an all girls school in the 'burgh?-------------------|
	
	Now that's some impressive schedule!


	billl

	

    
>>>>              we played the likes of Providence College, Sacred Heart <-----|
>>>>              (a Division 2 powerhouse), and Quinnipiac (strong Div. 2).    |
>>									      |
>>	JaKe, isn't this an all girls school in the 'burgh?-------------------|
    
    
    Yep, billl, and all girls Catholic High School.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    I had to laugh when I saw Quinnipiac listed as a strong Div 2 school. 
    Strong at what, getting students to run from their Novas to the
    classrooms 2 minutes before class?

    
    Yabbut I wanna know if'n ya play golf and walk the course it's a sprot,
    right?
    
    If ya play golf and drive a cart, it ain't?
    
    Ah's confused......
    
    I remain,
    really really confused!
    Kev
    

    RE: .147
    
    When I was in school (late 70's, early 80's) Quinnipiac was ranked
    *nationally* in Division II baseball.  
    
    That's a fact - do with it what you will.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    >>When I was in school (late 70's, early 80's) Quinnipiac was ranked
    >>*nationally* in Division II baseball.  
    
    What was they ranked, DEAD LAST???
    
    JaKe
    

    > What was they ranked, DEAD LAST???
    
    Top 20.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >>        Care to come climb a few mountains with me elk hunting this
    >>        year smart guy?  And, I'll thank you not to generalize all
    >>        hunters like that.  It's hard enough knowing there's a few
    >>        slob hunters out there without you perpetuating the myth that
    >>        we're all like that.
    
    >>        Claybone
    
      
    You don't have any real mountains where you live do you?
     :-)) <------I bet you see this one too.
    	  
    Just sitting here typing this I am probably already at a higher
    elevation than you are. That doesn't make me an athelete but then again
    I never said that I was....or wasn't.   If I need a quick mountain to
    climb, there is one almost in my back yard. It rises a vertical mile
    above the city, but you have to walk 9 miles of trails to get to the
    top. That one is just a baby.

    How come I've hardly ever seen anyone smile while jogging or running?
    
    Usually, they have a look of extreme discomfort, to say the least.
    
    Hell, anyone with 2 normal legs or more can run.
    
    I was on both my H.S. track and cross-country teams.  Any race over 1
    mile ain't a race, it's self-torture.
    
    Lee 

    
>                    -< Sorry you took it personally but... >-

	No apology required.  Just trying to let you know we're not all
	a bunch of beer swilling idjits.
      
>    You don't have any real mountains where you live do you?
>     :-)) <------I bet you see this one too.
 
	If you're comparing them to the ones in NM, I guess not.
	Ours are bigger! 8*)
   	  
>    Just sitting here typing this I am probably already at a higher
>    elevation than you are. That doesn't make me an athelete but then again
>    I never said that I was....or wasn't.   If I need a quick mountain to
>    climb, there is one almost in my back yard. It rises a vertical mile
>    above the city, but you have to walk 9 miles of trails to get to the
>    top. That one is just a baby.

	I'm sitting at ~6300 ft.  I wasn't addressing your athleticism.

	Your mountain sounds mighty impressive.  Sounds almost as big
	as the one I dragged my elk off of (by myself he sez wif his
	chest all puffed out).

Claybone

    I thought I redirected this discussion to topic 123.

Quinnipiac has, in the past, been a baseball powerhouse in their division.
I will back ACC Chris on that one.   Sacred Heart is a school in New
Haven CT, and this past year they went quite far in their divisional
playoffs in football, with a MONSTROUS offensive line....


'Saw

Some questions:


	1. Wheelchair Hoops is a sport, but it ain't if you use a 
	   electric wheelchair, right?


    	2. If'n you play donkey basketball, then the donkey gets the
	   prize if your team wins, right???


'Saw	

>              <<< Note 78.155 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>
>
>    I thought I redirected this discussion to topic 123.

Quite simple Mac.

See, it has to do with the way Next Unseen works.  This string was in
earlier than the move you put in, and of course, if someone followed
this string, they would have answered it, as I did.   Then, after that,
they did another Next Unseen, and they came across 123.0.

What you should have done was put a reply in here redirecting it, then
written 123.0.......


hth 8^)
'Saw

    
    	What FranSaw said........

    
    So -TH,
    
    How'd ya do at da races?
    
    deening to wonk!
    
    I remain,
    a former owner of a rice burner if'n ya really wanted to know!
    Kev
    

    Harley's are nothing more than 2 cylinder mopeds....
    Honda was a rice-rocket.....
    
    REK

Trip report from the Loudon National.

    JD, you missed a hell of a weekend, my offer is still open to come up
    on a regional weekend to see if it qualifies as a sport.

 Arrived Friday, and set up the pit on the access road with Pinkey and Dan. 
Dan Frisbie was my endurance partner, and he was riding vs. Pinkey in the twins
race on a worked 750 Ducati F1. Basically a pissed off 2x4 with a desmo motor
in it. Went out and took some practice laps in 600cc Supersport, Dan will take
all the EBC endurance practices. Temp was about 90 degrees, bike was running  a
little hot, but it was running well. Tires were gripping and brakes seem to 
have a little more fade than usual, probably due to heat.

 Went and got some gas from the track pumps, 4 bucks a gallon. Ouch. Running
smooth in practice, but having mega problems getting through turns 3 and 12.
I have been roughed up in turn three more times than I care to remember, so 
it's basically a mental problem there. Turn 12, my setup in turn 11 was 
throwing off my entry coming into 12, slowing my cornering speed and limiting
my drive onto the front straight. Loosing about 1.5 seconds in turn three and
a second in twelve. Will work on it. Changed my shifter to one up and  five
down, this is known as the GP style shift, and it's easier to step on the 
lever, than to put your foot under it to upshift. Dan's bike was setup this way
and I figured it would be one less thing for him to get used to. Blew 4th gear
at redline coming up the hill going into turn six (The Bowl), I downshifted
instead  of upshifted and it almost spit me over the bars. I'll try not to make
that mistake again, as my tach went past 14k and the rev limiter cut in. Yechh.

  Adjusted the rear suspension, had to stiffen up the rebound and set the sag. 
After a few run's it was working much better.

Saturday, more practice, still having problems with turn 3. Met Gonzo and Roger 
Allen, and they helped us set up the pit on the access road, along with the rest
of the crew. Always nice to have fellow Cycles Noters in the pits.
Pinkey had to borrow a pair of pants from his archrival Jamie 
Mcnulty, and I wouldn't have used those for a bike rag. Scott Russell showed up,
stepped off the plane from world superbike racing in europe and just ripped
through the field. he was doing 115's on tiger showa's backup Muzzy Kawasaki. 
I just shook my head along with the other guys. Went and watched the superbike
riders attack turn three to see if I could find the correct line. They were 
coming out of turn two, hitting the back straight at about 115 mph 
(conservative) and lifting the rear wheel off the ground under heavy braking
entering turn three. Jamie James (Vance &Hines Yamaha), Doug Polen (Fast By 
Ferracci Ducati) and Dale Quarterly where a real treat to watch, doing things 
on superbikes that don't look humanly possible.

The LRRS twins race was an 8 lapper, and Pinkey had to richen up his 
carburetors so the RC31 Hawk wouldn't overheat. The flag dropped and away they
went.  Good race with the leader and promoter of the event Jerry Wood on an 888 
Ducati getting reeled in and passed in the late stages of the race by some guy
on a Motoguzzi 920. Dan pulled off a 4th and Pinkey a 9th, both in the coin.
Now the pit was 2 for 2.
 
The 750cc Supersport race saw alot of good local talent up against the factory 
boys. Mark Smith and Jim Lussier (locals) of New England Performance had both 
qualed in the top ten. When the flag was dropped the race saw a freight train 
of about five bikes that could take the lead at anytime. Then a nasty little
pileup of those same five machines in turn three (?) brought out the red flag.
A restart was in order and local Mark Smith blasted to the front of the pack,
and led for about 8-10 laps before Tiger Showa lived up to his name and pulled
a bonsai move to get by him. Another local Gerry Rothman, who rides for 
Yoshimura Suzuki landed on his head and wasn't right after that for the rest 
of the weekend. Mark  ended up 4th and Jim 7th. Not a bad take with some stiff
competition. Tiger took to the podium and said 'Tank uwe berry mush' after 
his win.

The endurance race was next, and we had worked out all the details of rider 
changes, refuel, pit signals, I was staring for the first half and Dan would 
bring it to the checkered. I wheeled the bike to pregrid, row 5, space D. I was
the last bike before the huge gap to row 6, next to the wall, on the outside.
This is my favorite spot, as I had a clean shot on the outside and a chance 
for a good start. I'm not know as a good starter, (Ask Pinkey), but this year
I have been doing 200% better. The AMA official put up the 6 minute board, and 
the warmup lap was on. The start procedure shows an official showing the #6, 
and this will count down to the number 1. No relation to time, it takes ~ 4-5
minutes to see the #1. When the 1 is displayed, it's just about go time. The 
AMA official will turn the one board sideways and then the flag is dropped.
As I headed out for the warmup lap I scanned the track for oil and other crap.
The track had oil lines everywhere, this is noted by a white powder that is used
to sop up the spill. Turn six was a nightmare, but there was a  good fast line
through it so I wasn't to concerned. Out on the front straight, I signaled 
that I was slowing to my grid position. The number 2 was displayed, so I popped
it into Neutral and lifter my visor for a quick breath of fresh air and cleared 
my head. Nothing beats the start of a roadrace, I mean nothing. I looked at the 
straight in front of me and there was debris blowing across the track coming 
from the stands. People were right up against the fence peering through the 
galvanized diamonds like I was some sort of exotic animal on display. The one
board came up and I slammed my visor down, and clicked the gearshift up one
into 1st gear. My balls were in my throat. I had the F2 at about 6k RPM and 
brought it up to 10k RPM when I saw the one board start to tilt. there were 
close to 40 bikes on the grid and the sound of all those bikes at 10-12 
thousand rpm, makes your hair stand up. The board came around full tilt, I got 
the bike rolling and feathered the clutch, not waiting for the flag to drop.

 The Bike dropped a few thousand rpm and I pinned the throttle to maximum, and
powershifted into 2nd, then third. I came around high on the outside and
stuffed it into the pack and blasted through turns 1, 1a, and 2. Top ten off 
the start. Next came my old friend turn three. Yup, As I slowed to set up for
the turn about 6 bikes screwed by me, so I got in the tuck and headed up the 
hill and into the bowl. Made some progress, started hitting my lines, and the 
race was starting to settle into  a rhythm so I concentrated on consistency with
smooth controlled lines. Then all hell broke loose. I was about 1 second behind
two riders in front of me, setting them up for a pass. I came out of the bowl,
on the attack, and these two came together spitting them both off, right into 
my line. We were doing close to 100 mph, and I realized one of the guys was a 
fellow racer from N.Y., named Mike Gage. Both bikes were tumbling, pieces were 
going everywhere, plastic, fiberglass and metal were making that unmistakable
sound of meeting the tarmac at a rapid speed. My eyes were the size of 
grapefruits, as Mike and the other rider just would not stop rolling in front 
of me. I jammed the brakes, waited for an opening , and nailed the throttle, 
splitting them like Gretzski goes through a Bruins defense. Mike's GSX-R 600
Suzuki had leaked something, I didn't know if it was H2O or oil. Two laps 
later I was coming out of turn two, dove on the inside of this FZR600, and 
the guy highsided it ,nearly pitching him into the wall. I could see a waving 
yellow across the track at turn 6 then the red flag came out, stopping the 
race as a few more bikes went down in the same spot as the first crash. 

 There was about a 12 minute delay and we made a rider change, Dan restarted 
and my day was done. I found Mike Gage in the hot pits and his bike was totally
wadded, no compression in two cylinders, and everything on it was bent. His
weekend was over. Dan rode a good consistent race,  (actually he did a great 
job for never having ridden a 600cc bike before) and brought it to the 
checkered just like we had planned.   We finished a respectable 12th with the 
top 8 teams being national GTU teams. We felt even better. We had looked to a 
top 10 finish, in the money, but we finished, and could race another day. We 
were the 2nd highest finishing local team.

 Sunday I had one practice session, and one timed qualifying session. I was 
doing mid 1.25's during yesterdays race, which is on the conservative side.
I will have to qualify with 1.22's to be sure to get on the grid. I took about
5 practice laps and came in. I had to qualify with the same tires and brakes
from yesterday, so I didn't want to burn up any more rubber than needed.

 Odd numbered bikes qualed first, so out I went. there were 65 entries, with 
the top 40  qualifiers making up the starting grid. I had 12 qualifying laps
and my best time by the AMA timekeepers was 123.1 with a cutoff of 122.8 to 
make the grid. I missed it by .300/second. When the times came in for the 
first qualifying session, the 2nd group of guys went out and banged out mid to 
low 1.22's, this sealed my fate and I was bumped from the grid. (Last year 
cutoff was around 1.28).

   During the race it started out dry, but turned wet halfway through. Of the 
40 entries only 22 crossed the line at the end of the race. 18 went down 
through crashes. Not pretty. 

 I was pissed I didn't make the grid, as 1.23.1 would have put me top 8 at a 
club race, but after seeing the race, odds are I would have binned it. 

 There's always the Endurance ride in August in Atlanta, If that come through,
It'll make up for this.

Later

-TH

Sounds like your bike had a tough weekend. Hope it got a rub down
and some rest.  The motor musta been real tired, having to
lug around the body of the rider...

JD

    
    You're killing me. Why don't you stop with your snide remarks and come
    trackside ? Put on my leathers and go throw around a 350 +lb bike in 90
    degree weather. The only thing that might save you is if your are in
    good shape from running, but I doubt it. It's easy to attack something
    you know nothing about, but then again I'm not surprised.
    
     

	"Can't we all just get along?"

		- Chainsaw for Walt for Rodney

    	"Getting along sucks!"
    
    			- /Don for Beavis or Butt-Head

>    	"Getting along sucks!"
>    
>    			- /Don for Beavis or Butt-Head


"Shut up Butt-head"

Again, you miss the point.  Have to have a machine to do the
real work.  Now, if you powered it yerself, I'd be impressed.

Face it, if yer machine runs outta gas, you just sit there
going 'Vroom, Vroom...'  All of yer athletic prowess, strength,
etc., ain't gonna get it to go wifout da gas.

Now, if you carries the bike around the track on yer back,
that would be something.  But the bike carries you.

JD

    I miss the point ?
    
    Unreal.

Okay try this:

If you take the motor (the mechanical means of power) away
from this 'sport' - what do you have?

A bunch of guys sweating in leather.

JD

    I gotta laugh at that one!
    
    
    LAUGH LAUGH LAUGH LAUGH!
    
    Gin

    
    So I suppose that if you take ice skates away from hockey players, what
    do you have ?
    
    Bicyclists ? 
    
    

Yeah, but in hockey and in bicycling, it is human power powering
the implement.  They don't use gasoline powered skates or bikes,
now do they.   If you lined them up with a motorcycle without
gas, what would have?  A guy skating, a guy biking, and a guy
sweating in leather.

JD

    What about luge bowling?
    
    JD, I think we get the point.  I still found the report interesting.
    
    Mikee

Mike -

Agree, the report was interesting.

JD

    RE: The discussion...had to check my unseen map...coulda sworn that
    this "discussion" took place last week.
    
    RE: JD's p-name....Apostrophe Police!!

�    So I suppose that if you take ice skates away from hockey players, what
�    do you have ?

	Six on six boxing?

				/Don

    OK Slasher, send me some Windex and paper towels to get the iced tea
    offa my screen, dammit.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    I was just contacted last night to ride in the 24 hours of Nelson
    Ledges roadrace. It starts at 3:00 this  Saturday and ends the same
    time the following Sunday. The team I'm riding for won the event in
    1989, and again in 1990, so victory is no stranger.  
    
    Should be fun !
    
    

How about this, when Karen finally gets to a get together, JD will 
tag along to a motor race? JD, you probably won't have to go for 
a long time.

The Crazy Met

Uh Karen you missed the most important phrase in .182. 

The Crazy Met

Naw - I've taking part in 24 hour RUNNING relays (No engines allowed) - and that
was bad enough....

JD

    
    
         Ken Schraeder and his car owner suspended for drilling holes in
    his Carb. tsk tsk tsk.
    
    
    Chappy

I wonder if that's how he blew everyone away in qualifying a couple of
weeks back at Pocono?


'Saw

    The suspension has been rescinded and Schraeder(sp?) and the car owner
    were both fined ~$5000.
    
    JaKe
    

>    The suspension has been rescinded and Schraeder(sp?) and the car owner
>    were both fined ~$5000.
    
Supposedly the word is that he was not aware of the "modification".  They
get their engines from an engine builder, I guess, and don't set them up
in-house....

'Saw    

     **************** 24 Hours at Nelson Ledges  **********************


  Trip report:


 After not getting much sleep after the initial phone call from a fellow racer
asking me to join him in the 24 hour roadrace at Nelson, I said screw it, I'm 
not going to be sleeping once I get there anyway. Boy, was I right on the money.

 Left Thursday night, around 6:00pm. Had to stop in Providence to pick up some
spares, from there it was nonstop. Arrived it the track at 6:00 am, I sacked 
out until 7:30am until registration opened. Went through reg, and proceeded to
set up our pit on pit lane. Track looked like a $hithole, zero facilities, 
(worse that the old Loudon), Garrittsville Ohio is in the middle of nowhere.

 Temp was about 75 degrees, overcast skies, track surface was wet. There was a
team Suzuki riders school going on and some squid with the loudest street 750 
was making ungodly noise at 8:30 in the morning. The more I heard his misjetted
toilet going around the track, I wanted to pelt him with any object from the 
tool crib. Of course he was holding up the rear of the pack, but what the hell
he could go back and tell all his friends he was a true racer.

  Had some coffee, and the guys from team Charm came rolling in. Another team 
from NY was pitting next to us and they were Team Satanic Verses or something
like that. All in black, with paint jobs from a can on their bikes and support
vehicles. One of the babes that was with them had quite a rack so I figured
them to be O.K., just a little weird. The had a beefed FZR600 Yamaha, Marvic
wheels, Slicks, some kitting in the motor, a real nice middleweight superbike,
prepped for endurance. After talking with them for awhile I asked Lucifer (what
ever his name was) if they had worked the tranny. He said no, and I thought
to myself, Toast with a capital "T"  within 12 hours.

Set up a nice pit and the guys from Team Charm had a great pit setup. 
Airconditioned trailer, Honda Generator, plenty of lighting, just about
everything you could think of. I was getting Psyhced! Ted, (I drove from MA., 
to Ohio with him) Told me that these guys had a good setup and he wasn't 
kidding. 

At about 9:00 I was itching to see the track. A W.E.R.A. official came by, 
teched the bike, and Ted went out. Track conditions were still wet, and the
schedule for the day was rotating every hour with the Suzuki school.

 By now all the major W.E.R.A. ( Western Eastern Road Racers Assoc.) Endurance
teams were in or coming in. Team Suzuki Endurance, Arclight Racing, Force 
Racing, Virginia Breeze Racing. Team Suzuki was quite impressive.

 Suited up and took several sighting laps. Our FZR600 Yamaha had been built 
just for this race. The motor was done, and the Tranny had a special kit 
in it designed for longevity, due to the weak nature of FZR tranny's.
The suspension was about as far off as it could possibly be, so I  hooked
up with Kenny and we dialed it in. The other guys wanted nothing to do with 
Dialing in the suspension. Steve, one of the riders, told me he has a fast guy
ride his bike and set it up for him at his local track! I figured it was going
to take some time, but I was amazed how quickly I got it figured out.

 The rear was way to stiff and the rebound was also to fast. We decided to 
concentrate on the rear 1st then tackle the front, then go back the other way 
when needed. Set up the sag for 1.25 inches in the rear, (the track was alot
like Bridgehampton, i.e. bumpy) and set the rebound in the middle of the range.
Took a few laps, and it was better right away, but now the bike wouldn't steer.
Next dropped the front end by 5MM's, relocated the bars below the triple tree,
and decreased the preload on the front springs from 4.25 inches to 3.00 inches.
Wow, the bike is hooking up and almost there, with six different riders from 
weights ranging from 150-180, there was no way Ken and I could get it perfect
for everyone so we decided to go with a moderate to heavy suspension.
Made a few more adjustments and it came right in. Changed the oil, and everyone
received plenty of practice. There was also another FZR600 to practice on, but 
this thing made my left hand/wrist go numb, so I tried to stay with the "A" 
bike and let the regular guys ride the backup "B" bike. The B bike had
an FZR1000 front end on it, but the brakes were atrocious.

  The track was 2.0 miles with 13 turns, bumpy and fast. I enjoyed the layout,
as there was plenty of runoff room in most of the potential hazard area's.
After scoping out where I could make up the most time, I decided to pick up 
the pace, but still being conservative. 24 hours is a long race, and I wanted 
to start it without any major incidents.  Exiting pit out throws your directly 
into the racing line going into turn one. This is a bumpy 30' righthander, 4th
gear coming off the straight. Into turn 2, almost the same style turn but with
better reference points for cornering. Now into turn 3, full on the throttle
hard 80' left hander, this takes you through a sweeping turn 4,5 and into 
the carousel, turns 6-7-8. this is a big U flat out in 4th and you must go in 
fast to get out fast, double apexing the turn. The exit throws you into 
the bumps, but hang on because the back section is flat out into 5th, then 6th.
Turn 9 and 10 are fun, just wide open on the throttle. Probably about 140
on the FZR600 and well over 160 on the liter bikes. Just screaming. I don't
know if the smile on  my face would ever come off. coming through ten, you 
must slow for 11-12-13. 11 is a hard left again in 3rd gear, 12-13 is the U again
to fling you back onto the straight in 2nd gear.     Up into 4th and into turn
one. Repeat for 72 hours.

 with the bike being dialed in we practiced all day until 6:00pm and broke until
7:30 when practice began again for the night. This would last until 11:00 PM.
Sleep you ask ? Not yet. Still had tons of work to do. 

 Grabbed some chow and the night started to settle. Racing at night proved to
 be the most insane thing I have ever done. You see racing is like being 
addicted to drugs, your body just can't get enough. The crew rigged up the 
lights, this included cutting into the harness, installing a relay and a switch
for the front and side lights. This proved to be a big mistake. As it was 
almost dark I went out. I had just enough light to see my reference points
without the aid of lights, so I was still on my pace. As the darkness fell, it 
was a full moon and now I was praying to St.Anthony. With no lights on the 
track, and only the lights from the bikes, it was like something out of the 
movie Tron. Your basic video game, it felt strange to be riding like a maniac
at night. It goes against everything that I have always told myself not to do,
I.E., don't push in unfamiliar territory, but I had to. If your going to 
complete a 24 hour, you must race at night, so I did and what a blast it was.
   
Only Steve said he absolutely would not race at night, which was fine with 
everyone on the team, he was one of the fastest during the day.

 We were still taking it easy on the motor, not going over 9k. The morning 
would be a little different, as we would test Ted's Mechanical ability and wind
the ever loving snot out of it to see  if it would grenade or stay together.
It stayed together. It was without a doubt the best shifting FZR I have ever 
rode. The Shift kit was developed by Ted's friends, Team Machine, who won a 
WERA middleweight superbike title in 89-90. Team Machine sold shifting kits/
tranny parts for FZR's and they worked the nuts.

Sleep for about 5 hours at the track, woke up Saturday about 6:00am to some a$$
hole revving a pit bike. I wanted to kill.

Changed to oil on the scoot, practiced until about noon and there was a break
until the race started at 3:00pm.

 Steve was to start and I would follow. The tension was building and the pits
we're buzzing with excitement preceding the start. got the bike ready and 
wheeled it to pregrid. Temp about 90 degrees, humid, cooling system working 
fine.

 The 5 minute board went up and the warmup lap went without a hitch. Then 
came the one board, it turned sideways, the green dropped, and away they went.
It sounded like a pack of pissed off hornets, irritating to some, but a 
symphony to my ears.

Steve moved us up into the top ten somewhere, we pitted and I hopped on board.
Did my hour stint, maintaining our position, and the most important thing
was handing the bike off to the next rider. Setting blazing lap times is not 
the object, but being  smooth, fast and consistent are. My lap times were 
very consistent, just about all with .5-1 second of each other.

I prepped my helmet and leathers for my night shift. My scheduled rides were 
4-5 PM Saturday, 11-12pm Saturday, 7-8 am Sunday, 10-11am Sunday, and 14:30-
15:00 to take the checkered if needed. I really wanted to take the checkered.
When racing at night you must take some precautions that if you do crash
the field marshals may not be able to locate you. This is solved by duct 
taping some glow sticks to the bike, one on the leg, arm, and helmet.If a 
crash occurs, the glowstick will be a beacon so a cornerworker can get to 
you, quickly.
 
We ran well until my shift at about 11:30 PM. The battery wasn't charging and
the lights were dim, also the direction of the lights were crap.
I rode as well as I could, pitted and readjusted the lights. This took about 
5 pit stops. All was working until the lights basically went out, in the fast 
carousel. I  was bumming huge. It got so bad that I was about 20 seconds off
the pace, and this I felt was not only dangerous, but life threatening. I pitted
and had a few words with our tuner, who didn't want to take my input on how 
to solve the electrical problem. He said just ride the damn thing. I removed my
helmet and explained my situation of not wanting to go home in a box. A quick 
team meeting of the riders/crew, agreed that finishing the race is the goal, not
getting killed isn't. We notified WERA that we were pitting for an unspecified
amount of time due to electric's. We brought the bike off of pit wall, and got 
it up on the workstand. First things first, remove all associated relays and
switches for the lights that we installed. change the battery, check the 
alternator output, and make the lights bright.

 We were down for about 2.5-3 hours including the pit stops that Kenny and I
took. In the end It turns out that the battery had a dead cell in it (This also
caused the bike not to rev past 7k when I was on it) and there may have been
some problems with the wiring harness that we used.

Our top nightrider was on after me, he suited up and started ripping
through the field. he was about 4-5 seconds faster at night than he was 
during the day. The lights and electric's were working fine now, but the downtime
knocked out any chance of winning. The goal now was to finish.....  
I stayed awake until about 5:00 as a backup rider. Bartending at night to
support my racing has conditioned me to go on very little sleep, so I told the 
scheduled night riders that if they wanted to sleep, I'll take the shift.
The schedule stayed as posted, so I crashed in the trailer. I fell asleep 
in full leathers, boots, kidney belt and back protector, and don't forget
I had my earplugs in slightly muffling the lullaby of 4 stroke racebikes
going eeeeeoooooooowwwwww, lap after lap. I awoke at about 6:40 am, 20 minutes 
prior to my shift, and everyone in the crew was laughing at me when I rolled
out of the trailer ready to go. Ted handed me a cup of coffee, I took a few
gulps and put on my helmet. The bike pitted, we took on 4.5 gallons of fuel, 
1 pint of oil, and myself. I was out of there in 20 seconds with some input from
whoever got off the bike. I took a sighting lap and then just started wailing
on the bike. One minute I was sound asleep, the next I'm wide open in 6th 
gear doing 140 mph, and I haven't even brushed my teeth! Did my hour stint, and 
handed off the bike. 

I looked over to my right to see what happened to team devil worship, and guess
what, they lost 2,3,4 gear. What a shame. Ted and I had a bet to see when it 
would grenade, I guessed 12 hours, he said 14, so I owed him a cold one after
the race, and promised I wouldn't be flatulent on the ride home. I would
live up to the 1st but not the second.

Now we were getting into the latter stages of the race, and everything the 
rider and crew does is critical. No screwups, crashes, lets bring it on home.
Before my next stint some new sneakers were in order, and brakes. We were 
running 12th at this point and could catch 9th if we pushed it.
The pit stop went perfect, I had new rubber, the track was up to temp, an the 
brakes were working great. I was doing very consistent times, and picked up the 
pace to where I was the second fastest on the team. low 1.18's were looking
mighty fine on my pitboard, not wanting to throw it away, I settled for 
high .18's and low 19.s. Handed the bike over to Ted. Not wanting to be slow
he goes out and reels off some 1.16's and a few 115.'s. I gave him the bird
as he passed me down the straight, he nodded with approval as he saw the time
on Team Charms pit board.

While I was out there Arclight racing's 750 tossed it into the carousel. As I 
came around the next lap, it was engulfed in flames and brought out the red
flag. I pitted and asked the guys if they had any marshmallows and wieners
because I was hungry and if they didn't mind I was going to stop in turn 7 
and roast myself a little snack. Amused they were'nt. the 5 minute board was 
up and I took the restart. Kurt Hall of Team Suzuki Endurance (the race 
favorite) fell in turn 7 and ground up his ankle bone, dropping them back to 
3rd.

We made more rider changes and Steve was on the bike at 2:00. he had ridden 
alot of shifts, so I was hoping he would pit at 2:30 and let me take the 
checkered,so I stayed suited up and waited for his signal.

2:35 came and went, he stayed out, and all the teams on pit row had knots in 
their stomachs. The time just seemed to drag in the last .5 hour, and we got a 
bunch of beers ready for the shower Steve would receive *IF* he brought it home.
If is because anything can happen.

We took the checkered, and I had an immense feeling of accomplishment, just to
be able to go home and say I finished! The bike came around, pitted, the crowd
and teams along the pit wall applauded as the bikes came in one by one.
 Steve took a MGD shower, we took some team pictures, celebrated, and were in a 
state of disbelief that we had finished.

Here are some stats:


- 4 red flags/restarts

- 33+ pit stops

- 15 quarts of oil, 5 quarts consumed during the race.

- 2 filters,oil

- 4 set of tires

- 2 sets of brakes

- over 100 gallons of fuel

- over 800 laps for 1600+ miles

- 10 gallons of coffee

- 25 glow sticks

- at least 600 $hit eating grins
 


I would definitely do it again ! This may be the last 24 hour at NL. So that 
made it a little special. 

Next stop WERA six hour in Savannagh Georgia.


Mike
                               

    
    Opps, 10th in class, 22nd overall.
    

    
    WOW!
    
    Great note.  Thanks Mike.
    
    I remain,
    wondering if the 24 hours with Sid will be anything like yours?
    Kev
    

Kev -

The 24 hours with Sid will be much different.  See, Old Sid will be supplying all
the power and energy to propel himself.  YOu can't go and simply gas up, change
the tires, and roll him out at full speed again. Ain't like Old Sid is a mechanical
engine, now is it...

JD

    JD, give it a rest. Until you have walked or raced in my boots then
    your *Opinion* may mean something. To sit there with your self serving,
    holy-than-thou runners attitude while poking fun at my *SPORT* is
    wearing a little thin on my nerves. Things are a little easy when your
    belting away on your keypad without any direct rebuttal from the
    opposing party.
    
    Perhaps we should take it off line, as I would be glad to meet you to
    discuss this, or any other ideas that you may have. I have offered a
    free weekend for you to see firsthand, no response. Your verbal diarrhea
    of motor sports is not only wrong, but insulting to me.
    
    

Chill out.  

And to tell ya, I used to go to the car races cuz a friend did it.  Hard work.  Yep.
But even he admitted that the real wear and tear was on da machine.

I respect ya for doing stuff - at least you ain't a coach potato.  You work
hard.  So does yer machine.     

Besides, I was adressing Kev's question.  And teaming for Sid will in no shape
or form be like teaming for you.  For one, Sid won't be on a track.  He won't 
be in sight the whole time.  And there are many more thangs...

JD

Saw a great race at Loudon a week ago Sunday.  Rusty Wallace came from the
33rd starting position to win the race on a rather hot afternoon.  The 
race was pretty interesting early on as points leader Dale Earnhardt
got a lap down with a car problem.   He was pretty aggressive trying
to get the lap back, pushing the then leader, Davey Allison out of the
way with a hard bump in turn 3.

NASCAR came over the radio and told Earhardt's crew chief that the next
time he did that, they'd "open the penalty box door".  A few laps later
Sterling Marlin gave Earnhardt a taste of his own medicine, much to the
delight of the fans.

Late in the race, Rusty had moved up to second position, and was battling
with Davey Allison and Mark Martin.  A final caution flag, and Rusty's
"Over the Wall Gang" turned in a really fast pit stop.  That got Rusty
out of the pits first, and he held the lead until the checkered flag.


The following Sunday, at Pocono International Raceway, Rusty finished
2nd behind Earnhardt.  His pit crew was a little slower on Sunday, but
one of the regular team members had stayed behind in Mooresville to
prep the Talladega car, and the split second timing was a little off.
Rusty rode around between 8th and 4th most of the day, but his pit crew
did put together a helluva pit stop under caution with 13 laps remaining
to get him out in first.   His car wasn't quite up to the onslaught of
Earnhardt however, and when it became evident he wouldn't win, he tucked
in behind Earnhardt and they opened up a gap between them and the 3rd
place car of Bill Elliot.

Rusty had carried a #28 flag on-board all day, in case he won, as a tribute
to Davey Allison.  Pulling up along side Earnhardt during the lap after
the checkered flag, he tossed the flag to Earnhardt, who held it during
his "Kulwicki style" backwards victory lap.


During the weekend, we learned that the latest nickname for Dale Earnhardt
(among the folks who hate him) is Mr. Potato Head.   My own nickname for
his is a bastardization of his own "Intimidator".   I call him the
Inseminator, because he bangs everything is sight.

A couple of good races, some sun, some beers, and some fun, added up to
a decent vacation.   The only thing that sucks is being back here....8^)


btw, the facilities at the New Hampshire International Speedway in Loudon
are very, very nice, and with the hot weather they had sprinklers going under
the stands.  Quite a good facility.....


'Saw

    
    Saw glad you enjoyed what I call my home track. I was there last
    weekend racing and the NASCAR boys really ripped up the track in turns
    (nascar turns) 1$4. Emerson Fittipaldi took a few laps and said NFW am
    I racing here, so they repaved what he asked while we were practicing
    on Saturday morning. 
    
    They had to change the chicane in turn twelve to this dumb setup with a
    tire wall for us. I was in the lead for two laps and dropped back to
    second until the production champion did'nt like me in front and railed
    me into the tires. Dropped me back to 10th or so, and I finished 7th.
    I'll fix his ass at the next race for his stuff move, payback as they
    say.
    
    Indy This weekend, and the Barhe family is sure making some loot.

    
    > Indy This weekend, and the Barhe family is sure making some loot.
    
    From what I've read, they deserve it.
    
    glenn
    

    
   >     From what I've read, they deserve it.
    
    Yes they sure do. Bob Barhe had a vision and he executed a well
    concieved plan and now is reaping the profits for the last 5 years of
    hard work. My hat is off to the man.
    
    
    The old Road course at Loudon was a real hellhole. Zero facilities, no
    parking, and just a plain old dump. The track on  the other hand was a
    treat to race on. 1.6 miles, tight, plenty of runoff room, very
    technical, and good grip. From a racers perspective I would like to
    have seen the old course with the new facilities. NFW. Nascar is the
    perfect sport for Americans to watch, right in front of them and it
    brings in *HUGH* money. We don't, so now I race a M/C on a car track
    that has walls and is very dangerous if you blow a turn or loose your
    brakes. 
    
    Loudon is great, don't get me wrong, at least I have a place to race
    without noise and time restrictions.
    

>    
>    Yes they sure do. Bob Barhe had a vision and he executed a well
>    concieved plan and now is reaping the profits for the last 5 years of
>    hard work. My hat is off to the man.
>    

They had a big article on him in the Hartford Courant the day of the race,
because I guess he's originally from Connecticut.  He's one of those
old time business men, who seals deals with a handshake and stuff like
that.
    
>    technical, and good grip. From a racers perspective I would like to
>    have seen the old course with the new facilities. NFW. Nascar is the
>    perfect sport for Americans to watch, right in front of them and it
>    brings in *HUGH* money. We don't, so now I race a M/C on a car track
>    that has walls and is very dangerous if you blow a turn or loose your
>    brakes. 


From what I understand (I got this from Rusty's pit crew) the modifieds
tore up the track.  The Winston Cup guys had a bit of the problem with
the sections that got tore up.   Track temperature last Sunday was
150�F -- I can only imagine what it was in the cars....


NASCAR is a lot of fun to watch, especially when they get to rubbing 
and bumping.  At Pocono Sunday three guys (Elliot, Shepard, and Jarret,
I think) went into the Short Chute three-wide, and as they came down
the straight they all had wheel marks ("donuts") on their sides.

Saw ol' Junior Johnson too, but I couldn't get his autograph.


>    Loudon is great, don't get me wrong, at least I have a place to race
>    without noise and time restrictions.

A nice facility.   The only drawback is that access in is somewhat restrictive,
and you sit in traffic for a while......


'Saw
    

    I'm not just picking on Mr. Saia here, I see it in Notes all the time
    and am wondering what HUGH is, as in HUGH amounts of money.

>    I'm not just picking on Mr. Saia here, I see it in Notes all the time
>    and am wondering what HUGH is, as in HUGH amounts of money.


It's actually in reverent reference to Hugh Beaumont, who played Ward Cleaver.
Ward was a big guy.  I mean, any guy that could afford to have a wife who
wore pearls even while baking, as June did, was definitely a BMOS (Big
Man On the Set).   So, when we want to refer to something REALLY big,
we call it Hugh.

hth,
'Saw

"Hugh, you were a little tough on..."

    
    Woops, make it *HUGE*, Don't know where *HUGH* came from. Brain cramp.
    
    When the track temp gets that hot, it wreaks havoc on tires. There is a
    window that the sneakers will work in and when it gets that hot on the
    tarmac, forget it. Anything goes. Bettere to have 4 tires instead of
    two.
    
    I think there is a plan to widen rt. 106 leading to the track. When
    that will happen is anybody's guess.

>    When the track temp gets that hot, it wreaks havoc on tires. There is a
>    window that the sneakers will work in and when it gets that hot on the
>    tarmac, forget it. Anything goes. Bettere to have 4 tires instead of
>    two.
    
Yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to be a tire man last Sunday.

Actually though, it was a pretty good race.  About 9 laps in I think there
was a little shunt which banged up a few folks, but after that things
settled down pretty much.

One nice thing is that it's a mile track and you can see really well.
Out at Long Pond, you need binoculars to see over into the tunnel turn.


'Saw

    **************LRRS Weekend at New Hampshire International************
                                   7/17-18

  I had washed and waxed the bike so it was all set to go from the National at
NHIS. It was running real strong so I didn't see the need to touch anything.
I checked the basics, fluids, brakes, tires, oil, gave it the visual 
and wheeled it back into the garage where it sat until Friday night.

  Luckily I got out early on Thursday and Friday so I could get the support 
B.S. done. Fun stuff that no one thinks about when one has to go racing, Food
shopping, clothes, support equipment. I made my list and checked it twice
and I have packing the truck and bike on the trailer down to about 45 minutes, 
.5/hour if I really jam. Couldn't sleep and it was midnight, I always have 
trouble sleeping after loading up the bike. Watched Leno and he was funny,
sacked out at 1:00am woke up at 6:00. 

Arrived at the track, tech and registration were a breeze. The bike was 
spotless, so clean in fact that even Pinkey would have been proud! Set up my
pit next to the #151 of Chris Borgeman. All my friends that raced are either 
retired, dead, or in jail, so I go up solo unless my gal wants to come. She 
came with me this weekend, but was thoroughly bored by 10:00am. She went to the 
store and bought a smut novel, you know one of those Danielle Steel jobs.

 Went out for practice and they had changed the chicane in turn 12, this due
to NASCAR tearing up the track in NASCAR turns 1 & 4. This is our turn 1 and 12.
The new line through turn 12 was an atrocious setup of tires and cones, who I 
would be saying hello to later. Coming off of turn 11, you head straight for
the wall, jam the brakes, flick it quick right and then a hard left,point it
down the straight and nail the throttle. The tires where attached in a few 
spots, say 6 tires in a row (Indy type tires) then 6 more and so on. Coming 
into that turn the 600 is revving about 10k and in third gear, fast enough
for some serious damage, so when you pick a line it had better be the right one,
if it isn't, into the rubber wall you go and hopefully you won't be thrown 
into the racing line.

 Emmerson Fittipaldi was testing on during the week and said he couldn't 
race on the track surface that was shredded by the NASCAR boys. So there 
were paving crews in the two turns while we where practicing.
What EF wants, EF gets. Don't I sound really important throwing his name 
around. Like he and I  share the same garage, and go out for beers after a race.
Ha!
This was the reason for the chicane change, and I wasn't getting a good
drive out out twelve and onto the straight, getting about a 6 bike length pull 
from Chris on his F2. Practice went well and my old friend turn 3 was nothing
to me anymore. I charged into it, flicked the F2 and blasted out of it. No
problems, no fears, no hesitation. Sometimes you get into a mental groove, and 
that was exactly where I was when dealing with turn three. A change of scenery
(Racing at Nelson) always seems to to one good when dealing with any type of 
sports. I also play alot of hockey, and have the same mental lapses during the 
mid winter grind, so I'll go play at a different rink. Helps the head.
Racing is 50% mental, if not more at my level. 

 Now I laughed at turn three and wondered why I was such a wussy for this 
season. Coming down the back straight I felt like I was on my old FZR400 
when I aced the turn. The good days when flicking the FZR400 was nice and easy,
and fast! It was so simple. I wasn't super fast through three, but at least 40%
quicker than I had been. The Bike was hooking up for practice. Suspension was 
fine as was jetting. That's the nice thing about 4-strokes, if you don't smash
them to bits during the race weekend it's basically gas-n-go.

Took my two practice sessions, everything went well, and ate some lunch.
Riders meeting at 12:45 and they had a roll call, those that were not there 
were fined 50 bucks. They fined one guy that everyone can't stand anyway, so it
was kind of funny. Money goes into a corner worker raffle (cash) and they raffle
it off at the roadracers awards banquet in January.

I had race #8, middleweight Production, run in conjunction with Lightweight GP, 
we were the first wave. I figured the TZ250's would catch us in about 5 laps,
this would prove to be true.

Suited up for the race, weather/temp/humidity perfect. 82 degrees, sunny, but 
a little windy. I had 1D on the grid, right where I like it. 5 minute board
went up and I took my warmup/sighting lap and returned to the grid without 
incident. 2 board down, 1 board up and it gently clicked the shifter up one 
notch, dropped my visor, and brought  the F2 to 10k on the tach. I lined
up about 8 inches behind my starting position and this would allow me to get
the bike rolling somewhat so I could get it off the line as fast as possible.
AS the 1 board went sideways, the bike was rolling, and I rolled the throttle
wide open and feathered the clutch. I was gone. Talk about a holeshot, 5 bike
length lead going into turn one, and pulling on the rest of the field. The 
announcer was calling the race and said I was in the lead and pulling, at this
time my girlfriend was still reading her smut novel, jumped to her feet and 
ran to the fence to see me coming around turn 11, Still in the lead.

 It had been about two years since I lead in a race, and the aggressiveness and 
hunger was boiling in my head. Not wanting to toss it away, I settled on 
smooth lines, with that came speed. John Stigerwald passed me in turn 3 and I 
expected at least 4 more bikes to come by, but they didn't. This meant that I 
was carrying enough speed so only one bike could get by and he timed it perfect.
Now I knew there were at least 10 bloodthirsty racers behind me, all wanting my 
spot. Still holding 2nd place, I rounded turn 11 heading for 12. As I dropped 
a gear (2nd) and flicked it to the right, #652 pulled the best stuff move of his
career by putting his FZR600 right next to mine and we banged fairings and I 
was forced off my line and into the tires. As I saw the tires coming, I said
Oh F*&^!, stood on the pegs and pinned the throttle. Somehow I stayed on the 
bike and hit the tires just right and went through them. Now I'm back in 10th
place or so, pissed! Berry, (#652) is the current middleweight champ and 
probably didn't like to see me in the lead, so a good stuff move is in order.
I'll fix his ass the next time we race. Kept my cool, but by the time I got out
of the tire mess the leaders were gone. At about the 6th lap the TZ250's were 
coming. The leader of the GP class passed me going into turn 1 and the #516
of Tim O'cconnor was showing me a wheel. He was also chasing the leader, so 
I extended a little roadracers courtesy and let him pass. I could have been a 
dick and slammed the door on him going into turn 1, but we are scored separately
so it didn't matter. He thanked me after the race was over. (He did pass for
the lead but was repassed on the last lap.)

  I finished 7th.

  I got a great start and people let me know it, so I guess that kind of made
up for the race.

  Sunday, I decided to make a gearing change from a 44 tooth rear to a 46 tooth.
This would help me get into 6th down the straight and get a good drive out 
of turns 12,3, and most of all turn 2. Also bought some clutch springs, as the
clutch feel is a little mushy but no way was I going to change them for fear 
of pulling a major wheelie on the start of the Supersport race. 
The gearing saw an immediate improvement, I took my practices (2) and sat out 
the third to conserve the tires. The rear was getting a little sideways going 
up the hill and even more coming down the hill. This is the first time I 
have really slid the rear on the F2. My FZR600 I could roll the throttle
on and slide the Metzeler rear all the way up the hill and never get off the 
gas. The Sportmax Radial Dunlops are alot different and I'm still finding
out where the threshold is. I use alot of tire, both front and rear, and I tend 
to push the front, but I rarely slide it. So this was new and I was having some
fun with the rear on the entrance to turn 9. Took two of the three practices,
sitting out the third practice would creep up on me later.

 I had race 7, Middleweight Supersport and there was about 30 bike entered, not
including Juniors. I was gridded at 3d or 4d, I can't remember, but it was smack
in the middle of testosteroneville. On the outside again, so I was happy.

The start was O.K. and I got off with the pack, not getting the holeshot that 
I had tried for. Swapped some paint on the start as I was in the center
of the pack, bikes jockying for position, elbow to elbow.Running about 15th or
so and with the pack. Bike was running crisp, on lap 2 As i exited turn 12 I 
went through the gears into 6th. Hit my braking markers, went to downshift  
and guess what, no clutch lever. 

Great. 

Ever have a bike screaming in 6th and expect a little thing like a clutch or 
brake lever to be there and it's not  ? Not my idea of a party. Jammed it into 
gear and got out of turns 1,1a,and 2. Coming down the back straight I tried to 
adjust the lever and about 8 bikes didn't feel like waiting, away they went.
Got to the back section and held my lines, shifting without the clutch. Had
to make a clutch decision on whether to continue to shift without the aid of
a clutch or to beat on the tranny. The tranny would probably take it, but 
realistically I was somewhere in 25th place with the leaders not stopping
for tea and crumpets waiting for me to catch up. I pitted and stopped 
in the hot pits, making adjustments as quickly as possible. The retaining bolt
for the clutch lever had decided to make a home on the track, this left me to
hold the clutch lever in it's socket and try to finish the race. I did just 
that, but  every time I turned the bike the  clutch would engage and rev
the hell out of the motor. 
 
When I pitted I had signaled and the cornerworkers new I was coming. I entered
and exited the pits having flashbacks to endurance racing. No one pits for a 
sprint race! 
I made best with with I had and finished, with minimal beating to the tranny 
and motor. Plus when I returned to the field I was in with the juniors and 
I had a whole lot of fun passing them!

Not a happy camper when I came in, but WTF that's racing.

Next regional is Bridgehampton 7/28-29 and then Back to Loudon 8/28-29. I won't
be going to the bridge, but will make the next Loudon.

Special thanks to Gonzo and his wife Beth for showing up and helping out.

Looks like Savannagh is ON!

Michael

    Mike,
    
    Great stuff!  Are you trying to rival Sid's Ultramarathon report
    writing?  ;^)
    
    Question, approximately how fast are you going in each gear?  I know
    it's gotta be quick but just how quick?
    
    I remain,
    without the filberts to do what you do, doncha know!
    Kev
    

    
    Kev,
    
    >> Are you trying to rival Sid's Ultramarathon report
    
    No, I type in a little at a time after the race weekend, I'll try to
    keep them short. it's tough to describe 2-3 days of racing in a few
    paragraphs.
    
    >>    Question, approximately how fast are you going in each gear?
    
    It all depends on the track, and what the gearing is. Also headwind or
    tailwind is also taken into account. My CBR600F2 will do the legal
    speed limit in 1st gear !
    
    At tracks like NHIS, 1.6 mile 12 turn course, I'll hit 125 mphdown the 
    straight. Thats tops on that track because it's so short and tight. In
    turns 6, 4th gear entry speed is about 90 mph. Thats a
    descending/ascending U turn that acts like a slingshot if you hit it right.
    
    Daytona and Pocono, the 600 would hit it's top speed of 150 easily. My
    old CBR600 topped out on the banks of Daytona at around 140 mpg. These
    speeds are nothing compared to Nascar or Indy, but at those speeds the
    contact patch of the tires is minimal. And we only have two. The 1000cc
    and 750cc superbikes will hit ~180MPH. 500cc 2 strokes GP bikes will
    hit 200MPH ! Fun, fun, fun!
    
    I'll pull redline in 6th gear at Bridgehampton for about 140-150MPH.
    
    Roadcourses to me offer the greatest challenge, this due to the
    constant elevation, camber, banking, and pitch changes of the track.
    With all these changes it's possible to have a 150 mph sweeping dogleg
    turn in 6th gear, that leads to a chicane that drops you to 2nd gear at
    about 60 mph.
    
    A good track offers as many challenges as possible, and there is
    usually only one fast line through any given turn. The trick is finding
    that fast line.
    
    heres a breakdown of a stock gearing setup and speeds:
    
    1st gear 0-50 mph
    2nd gear 50-70 mph
    3rd gear 70-90 mph
    4th gear 90-110 mph
    5th gear 110-130 mph
    6th gear 130- 150 mph
    
    This is with a stock transmission setup and you can vary the final
    drive by changing the sprockets. Again, this is an average setup for a
    stock 600cc 4 stroke M/C. 2 strokes are entirely different. (and my
    absolute favorite btw)
    
    

Last night I was driving home the long seven mile 12 minute ride that it 
is here in CXO. The road I drive home was covered with gravel cause they 
are going to re-surface. Well up ahead I see this little grey car doing a little
fishtail. This car loses control and crosses into the opposite lanes and hits 
a boat being towed by a Ford Bronco, The boat exploded "fiberglass explosion" 
not the flaming type and flies up and onto a Ford Explorer's roof then it sails 
off to the shoulder of the road. 

Nobody was hurt seriously the girl driving the grey Honda Accord cut her hand 
and banged her haid but overall she is allright. The other drivers were very 
calm and no one was looking to bite anybody's head off except maybe the road 
crew spreading marble sized gravel on to a hard road surface. 


Whens the nexted NASCAR racce in this area ?

>
>Whens the nexted NASCAR racce in this area ?
>

I believe one of the last NASCAR races of the season is in Phoenix.

That's one of the four races they have on the schedule where they
visit the track once (the others are Loudon, Watkins Glen, and Sears Point)

Next season they'll be doing a race at Indy also.

Every other track they visit twice a season....


Sounds like she was a bit loose and could have used another round of
wedge.  Either that or her stagger was off......



'Saw

      Supposedly when they down that rock gravel, that helps during the icy
    driving conditions of winter.  Of course it kills the paint job and
    windshields  before they spray the liquid tar over it,  which is usually
    a week after dumping the rock.  You can see what great condition Austin
    Bluffs Pkwy is in.  Just another way of waisting tax $$$ and costing us
    $$$ for new windshields, and driving time while they repair the failed
    repair attempts.
    
      Tim

 *************************  LRRS/GPPRO Round 7  *****************************


  Went up Friday and took the optional practice. 45 bucks and not much time on 
the track, kind of disappointing. It's always good to get some track time in 
on a Thursday or Friday session before  a race. Loosens you up prior to 
Saturday. Went out with the novices and had some fun with them. Got a few
guys on 750's going pretty good and then passed them when they thought they 
were going really fast. Lets them know that they have a long way to go.

Bike running great, tires are junk. Changed the tires on Sat., went with the 
Dunlop 364 cut slick compound. This tire was specifically designed by Dunlop
for the 600F2, it's a 160/60/17. 200 Bucks for the rear ! I have a good 
relationship with Jack Smith from Sport Cycle Products and he said the tire
was a set price from Dunlop and he couldn't budge. He gives me great deals on 
the Sportmax Radials, but there was nothing he could do on this. No problem,
I grabbed them of the shelf and he thanked me for phoning in my order earlier
in the week. he also said that the tire was good for 1-2 seconds off of your 
time. This proved to be true.

Went out on Saturday and Mounted a Video camera on the tank. I don't have the 
tape back yet (8MM) so I won't know how it will look on VHS format. Practice
went really well and the new tires were hooking up huge. The only problem was 
that I was dragging everything in the bowl and coming down the hill (turn 10)
and going into turn 1. Rearsets on the way.


It was really hot and I was glad I didn't sign up to do the solo GTU race for 30
minutes. I had  a Superbike race  (#4), and Supersport (#8), so the decision was
a good one. There were numerous delays prior to the start, and some jamoke 
junior looked behind him and plowed into the guy in front of him, while lining 
up for grid after the warmup lap.Smooth. I feel
that if your that stupid, you should go back to racing with the novices. I 
don't want to race with someone like that because I will eventually catch them
and have to pass them, not knowing what stunt this person is capable of. 
  
Got a poor start, due to a mental error. Rode hard and pulled out
a 9th ! The leaders were in sight so this was a very positive sign, I also 
started going into the bowl in 4th gear, something I have never done before.
This means I am carrying some serious speed through turn three, (Yes!) and 
holding it open coming into the bowl. I figure redline at 4th gear before I hit
my brakes I'm cranking at around >100 mph, entering turn 6. 

The feature event was next, Middleweight Supersport. Big field, 25 entries
not including the 15 or so juniors that we will catch on about lap 4. I'm 
gridded on 2D, my favorite spot on the outside. Got a killer start, top three
going into turn 1 with a huge pack behind me. The eventual winner Jeff Perry
came screaming by everyone in turn 2 full on the gas. The man is fearless, 
and I was mumbling to myself WTF ! I dropped back to 5th and held it for about
three laps, still hanging with the lead pack, and I was PSYHCED. About 2
seconds separated positions 1-6 and another 2 seconds for positions 6-15. I was
a really tight race. Missed a shift going into one, and lost a few spots, missed
another going into the bowl and 4 guys got by me. I couldn't believe it. this
on the last lap ! Finished 11th, but my confidence was soaring.

Sunday I had Middleweight Production, race #6. Practice went well, dropped 
down a practice to the middle session to practice some passing. Had a blast.
Made the pipe swap to the production pipe and I hate it. It robs the bike of 
all the Midrange power. This would haunt me in the bowl. Grid 4C on the outside
behind the start of the HW twins race. Got a killer start again! third going 
into turn one, 2nd coming out of turn two. Held that for a lap and passed
for the lead on lap two by stuffing a wheel under the leader in turn two. I 
timed the pass perfectly, and off I went. My breathing was a little bit heavy,
my concentration slipping. Haven't led a race in a long time, and I know that 
they are right behind me. Stuck to the basics and hit my braking markers in sync
led for 2 more laps before the #91 of John Illich passed me in turn 2. Still in 
2nd place, wow, where are the  guys I'm used to chasing ?  Coming up 
on traffic, made a crucial mistake of hesitating coming into the bowl coming
up on some ducati's. This cost me two spots, tried to power out of the bowl
but I was to low on the rpm scale without any midrange power. &^%^$#@#! 
Hit third and made up some time, passed two ducati's in the dirt  in turn 10. 
Screw it, I'm pissed. On to the leaders, again only about 2 seconds behind, 
come down the hill into turn ten again and get into a full two wheel slide.
I thought for sure I was gone ! Off the gas, the 364 caught and started to
flick me over the high side. Big tank slapper, I came down and smashed 
my balls on the tank. I took a huge gulp and wondered about my future family, if
there ever would be any. Two more guys get by. Finished 6th, best race and 
finish of the season so far. Best weekend for that matter.
    
    I'm just comming into my own on this bike and it has taken me 3/4 of a
    season to do it. The best compliment I recieved so far was a few guys
    were mumbling that my bike is really fast. That's true, but I'm alot
    faster, the bike has been the same all year. Sounds like sour grapes to
    me. 
    
    I'm passing on Bridgehampton this weekend, but will be back at NHIS on
    three weeks.

    Mike

>Dunlop 364 cut slick compound. This tire was specifically designed by Dunlop
>for the 600F2, it's a 160/60/17. 200 Bucks for the rear ! I have a good 
>relationship with Jack Smith from Sport Cycle Products and he said the tire
>was a set price from Dunlop and he couldn't budge. He gives me great deals on 
>the Sportmax Radials, but there was nothing he could do on this. No problem,
>I grabbed them of the shelf and he thanked me for phoning in my order earlier
>in the week. he also said that the tire was good for 1-2 seconds off of your 
>time. This proved to be true.

How much usage do you get out of this one, $200 tire?



>Went out on Saturday and Mounted a Video camera on the tank. I don't have the 
>tape back yet (8MM) so I won't know how it will look on VHS format. Practice
>went really well and the new tires were hooking up huge. The only problem was 
>that I was dragging everything in the bowl and coming down the hill (turn 10)
>and going into turn 1. Rearsets on the way.

On of the things that annoys me about bike mounted cameras, is that they
lean with the bike.  I don't care how far off you're leaning, you're head
is always pretty much upright.

I saw a film clip of the late Mike Hailwood do a lap at the Isle of Man,
with a helmet mounted camera.   What a rush and a half....


>    I'm just comming into my own on this bike and it has taken me 3/4 of a
>    season to do it. The best compliment I recieved so far was a few guys
>    were mumbling that my bike is really fast. That's true, but I'm alot
>    faster, the bike has been the same all year. Sounds like sour grapes to
>    me. 

Sounds like good stuff is happening for you, Mike.  Keep at it.

As for your testicles, I don't know what to tell you....  We always joke
in the gym about learning to push them back inside, but the thought of
that hurts worse than wanging them on the tank.....8^)

    
>    I'm passing on Bridgehampton this weekend, but will be back at NHIS on
>    three weeks.

Good luck.  


'Saw

    
    Saw', 
    
    I Usually get 3-5 races out of a set and 6-10 practices on a set of
    Sportmax Radials. This equates to two race weekends. Of course it
    depends on temp and how hard I ride.  For the 364 the jury is still
    out. I don't have a tire sponsor so I have to stretch the tires. For
    Loudon (NHIS) It's mostly left handers and Bridgehampton is mostly
    righthanders. I'll keep the tires from Loudon and use them at the
    Bridge, stretching them even further.  I'll stretch them as much as
    I can, within reason, with saftey being the main concern.
    
    
    What was funny was My friend Ted (Endurance partner) was wandering
    through the garages and ran into a few guys I race against. He said,
    (Kidding) "Speaking of fast, where's Saia?" these guys went off saying
    that my bike must be illegal, It's got way to much motor and they can't
    catch me. Ted, laughing because these guys did'nt know that Ted and I
    are teammates and they were talking trash which would get back to me.
    So I guess it was a compliment, because my motor is legal, I made a
    gearing change, and I'm racing well, and guys that usually beat me,
    can't. Nothing like keeping your mouth shut, and letting the results
    speak for themselves. Instead of finnishing mid to rear pack I'm
    running top ten, not crashing, and doing some serious dicing. They
    don't like it because they can only see the back of my leathers, so
    they talk about a protest, which I can't wait for that. If they file a
    protest they have to tear my motor down and put up 300 bucks to do it.
    When the teardown  is complete and the motor is found valid by the referee,
    the 300 bucks goes into *MY* pocket. How do you think they will feel
    then ?
    
    

>    What was funny was My friend Ted (Endurance partner) was wandering
>    through the garages and ran into a few guys I race against. He said,
>    (Kidding) "Speaking of fast, where's Saia?" these guys went off saying
>    that my bike must be illegal, It's got way to much motor and they can't
>    catch me. Ted, laughing because these guys did'nt know that Ted and I
>    are teammates and they were talking trash which would get back to me.

That's pretty funny.


>    So I guess it was a compliment, because my motor is legal, I made a
>    gearing change, and I'm racing well, and guys that usually beat me,
>    can't. Nothing like keeping your mouth shut, and letting the results
>    speak for themselves. 

That's the attitude I like in sports.  



>    they talk about a protest, which I can't wait for that. If they file a
>    protest they have to tear my motor down and put up 300 bucks to do it.
>    When the teardown  is complete and the motor is found valid by the referee,
>    the 300 bucks goes into *MY* pocket. How do you think they will feel
>    then ?


Phew, that's tougher than getting a two-minute penalty for protesting
an illegal stick and being wrong....8^)


'Saw    
    

Well, Mark Martin has very quietly won 4 Winston Cup races in a row.
Add to that the last 2 Busch Grand National races, and he is arguably the
hottest driver in motor racing these days.

He's a scant 3 points (I believe) behind Rusty Wallace in the standings,
and Rusty's about 300 points behind Dale "The Inseminator" Earnhardt.

Rusty's been having some excellent runs, losing to Martin with about
12 left to go in Bristol Tenn last week, and coming in 3rd this past
week in Darlington.

Earnhardt continues to maintain his lead with good solid finishes too,
and as much as I hate him, I've got to hand it to him -- he's been getting
it done.....


There's still plenty of races (10?) left to make the championship an
interesting race in itself.....


'Saw

	With eight races left Earnhardt only needs to finish a average of sixth
to win the title and put GM back in the lead of MFG's


  Cadzilla2. 

>	With eight races left Earnhardt only needs to finish a average of sixth
>to win the title and put GM back in the lead of MFG's


Yeah, I know.  Rusty's gotta win some, The Inseminator has to DNF at least
one time to make it interesting.

Martin's looking awfully good though.  But man, I can't see how he can
drive with that Arkansas Grip he uses...  I'd crash it for sure trying
to use that....

At least Rusty's in the hunt this year.....

'Saw

Last Saturday night at Richmond, Rusty Wallace won his 5th race of the year,
capturing the checkered flag at the Miller Genuine Draft 400.  He overcame
a black flag stop and go when NASCAR officials made a judgement call that
he tried to give someone a "break job" on the start.   I didn't see the
race (my cable company doesn't carry TBS) so I don't know.

Dale "The Inseminator" Earnhardt finished 3rd, so Rusty gained a little
bit of ground.  

I don't have the stats in front of me, but Rusty is not that far removed
from the same challenge that faced the late Alan Kulwicki last year, in
terms of points behind and races remaining.  Of course, it would still
help is Earnhardt got a DNF somewhere along the line....

In the victory, Rusty's crew had a 16.6 second pit stop -- not their
best of the year (16.1 early in the season) but stil damn fast....


Bill Elliot finished in 2nd place....


'Saw

    
    I went to the USGP at Laguna Seca raceway in Monterey California this
    weekend. What a track. Elevation changes galore, plenty of runoff room
    and the corkscrew is not to be believed in person. Enjoyed myself, the
    only this is I wish I could have raced. 500cc, 250cc, and 125cc were the
    show, with Amercian John Kosinski winning the 500cc class aboard his
    Cagiva. (Owned by Ferrarri) an American has successfully won the USGP
    since it's inseption in 1988. Mick Doohan wadded his Rothman's Honda in
    the corkscrew while in the lead. He layed in the middle of the track
    sitting on his butt unable to get up. (He has broken his right leg more
    times than I have crashed, and thats quite alot) He also broke
    something in his shoulder so he was helpless as about 12 500cc machines
    avoided him on the track. Pain is an understatement. Kevin Schwantz
    wrapped up the title for Lucky Strike Suzuki as his archrival Waine Rainey
    riding for the Marlboro Yamaha team  was paralized in the
    Italian GP, both were in a dead heat comming into the round at Laguna,
    and this is why I went. 
    
    John Kosinski is probably a household name in Italy for his win aboard
    the Cagiva. He's looking at a big fat contract, and a new F40 for
    winning this race. The Castiglioni bros promised a new Ferrarri for
    anyone that could win on the Cagiva. This is huge in the Motorcycling
    community. It's been quite awhile since a non Japanese  bike lost a
    race, and this is larger than last year when Eddie Lawson won in the
    rain aboard a Cagiva in Hungary. Next year should be interesting.
    
    

A couple of driver changes for next year are shaping up.....


	Geoff Bodine, who purchased the Kulwicki Racing Team,
	will be driving the #7 car next year.  I haven't heard
	about sponsorship yet.  Geoff had been driving the #15
	Motorcraft Ford.

	Lake Speed, who was driving the #28 Texaco Ford following
	the death of Davey Allison, and who owns his own racing
	team, and usually races 10-15 races a year under the
	sponsorship of Purex (Xerex? -- blue and orange anyway!)
	will be driving the #15 Motorcraft Ford.

	Ernie Irvan, who until recently was driving the #4
	Kodak Chevy Lumina, has taken over the #28 driving
	duties, and will continue in that slot next year.


	At this point, it is still unknown who'll be driving
	the #4 next season, and Dick Trickle is still out
	of a job.


	Finally, Rusty Wallace's association with Miller Genuine
	Draft will continue through the 1996 season, as
	Penske Racing-South, Wallace, and co-owner Don Miller
	resigned with Miller Genuine Draft.


'Saw

    
    Love those names..... Lake Speed, wtf were his rents thinking anyway ?
    

>    Love those names..... Lake Speed, wtf were his rents thinking anyway ?

Yeah, how 'bout that, eh?

My brother and I were sitting with a Lake Speed fan at the Saturday
race out at Pocono (the one where everyone was drooling over the only
woman in the field, Laura Lane of Oakland).   I'm sure he's all kinds
of psyched over Lake's fortunes.....


'Saw
    

    No Dick Trickle?
    

    Yabbut walt, ya forgot to add
    
    Walt_for_Dickstah
    
    He wouldda put that here, if he were here imo.
    
    I remain,
    driving to Hebron saturday (uninvited, of course)
    
    ;^)
    Kev
    

Well, over the last two weeks Rusty Wallace has heavily chopped into
Dale "The Inseminator" Earnhardt's lead in the points standings.

Last weeks win in Dover spawned some controversy, but by this week all
involved were a little more cool-headed.   On a restart, Rusty, in 10th
place and down a lap was right behind Hut Stricklin.  I've seen the tape
(earlier today) and apparently Hut missed a shift.  Rusty tapped him,
sending Hut into Dale Earnhardt and Ricky Rudd.

At any rate, Rusty worked his way back up to 3rd, and a late caution
got him out of the pits 2nd behind Darrell Waltrip.    He passed Waltrip
about two laps later, and hung on for the last 20 laps to gain his
7th victory of the season.   Earnhardt finished 27th.

Today, Rusty came in second (in the Goody's 500, I forget where) and
Earnhardt finished 29th.  Ernie Irvan, driving the Yates Texaco
Thunderbird, won.

Rusty is now just 82 points behind Earnhardt....


'Saw

Rusty closed the gap to 72 points last Sunday by winning the race in
Martinsville.   Unforunately, the Inseminator came in second.

In the last three races, Rusty has two wins, and a second place.  Not bad.
I have a theory as to why he's experiencing all this success, but I won't
go into it here.

Meantime, there's no short tracks left on the schedule.   72 points is
definitely a margin that can be overcome, but Rusty needs a couple
of high finishes, where Earnhardt doesn't finish well.  (A DNF for
Earnhardt would be MOST welcome).


'Saw

    
>>   Unforunately, the Inseminator came in second.
    
    What, the doctor took too long???  Is this guy artificial or what??
    
    JaKe
    

|>>   Unforunately, the Inseminator came in second.
|    
|    What, the doctor took too long???  Is this guy artificial or what??
    

Dale Earnhardt's nickname is The Intimidator.  At Pocono this year, there
were two new nicknames.   Mr. PotatoHead, because his ears stick out,
and one that I coined, The Inseminator.

One of the other fans asked why I called him that, and I said
"Because he bangs *everybody*" and it kind of stuck....

'Saw    

In my periods of semi-consciousness yesterday, as I was nursing myself
back to health (no, I didn't have to cut my own leg off), I caught
a brief interview with Rusty Wallace on Speedweek.

Rusty is 72 points behind in the race for the Winston Cup Championship.
When Rusty won the Championship in 1989 (driving the #27 Kodiak car) he
was 75 points behind at this point in the season.

Gonna make for an awfully interesting bunch of upcoming races.....


'Saw

******* Final Round LRRS/GPPRO New Hampshire International Speedway *********




 Well, alot of thoughts were coming into my head as I prepped for the final 
round of 1993. I had an O.K. season and I stuck to my game plan at the start 
of the year. Consistency, go slow to go fast, and finish each race without 
crashing. I met and exceeded all goals. For this I am pleased ! Nothing like
putting the bike away in one piece. I still have Georgia this weekend (W.E.R.A
6 hour) so the season is not really over, but the regional events are.

  Driving up Saturday morning was great. The colors were fantastic the further 
north I went, the weather was cold and damp. Not ideal racing conditions.
Arrived and breezed through tech inspection (the guy inspecting my bike is my 
teammate!) but that doesn't matter as they look for anything that may bend the 
rules. Skipped the first practice, track was still wet. Had two practice 
sessions and the clutch was toast. Decided to put in the new one at lunch.
They weather started to clear, I tore the side covers off and then my Dad and 
Pinkey showed up. Pinkey was kind enough to finish up the job for me so I set
my mind at ease. I had about 8 hours sleep in the last two day because I needed
the extra money from my bars shifts to go to Georgia and finish out the season.
Every cent counts, and the 100 dollar Barnett clutch didn't help. 

Pinkey finished up the clutch and Pop was impressed with his patience and 
mechanical aptitude. I offered him a contract to tune for me in '94, details are
being drawn up as I type his, he seems to want the big one way contract with
all expenses. I can throw him a tuna sandwich and a gate fee, but the 70k he
was looking for was out. Arbitration it goes. 

Races 7 and 10, Middleweight Supersport/Middleweight Superbike. I had grid
3a/3b respectively. Smack in the middle of ground zero at the start. Elbows and 
knees into turn one with some of the other participants, two of which I try and 
stay away from because there is some bad blood. The regular starter was not 
there and the assistant starter was doing the job. She was a little different
throwing the flag, not as quick as Steve. I watched the first couple of races
and she had about a 1-2 second wait from when the 1 board went sideways. The 
regular starter throws the flag right away, so my timing was crucial to get
out of the middle of the wolf pack. 

 Tested the new clutch as best I could in the pits, and waited my turn.
Went to pregrid took my sighting lap and lined up at position 3A. 2 board up,
shut my visor. 1 board up and I notched the F2 into gear, and had the Tach 
Singing at 11,000 RPM.Sideways I count 1 and let it rip on the inside of 
row 2 I dove past the #111 in front of me and ran down some of the grid
position cones and powershifted into turn 1 somewhere in the back of the 
top 10. As I came out of turn two I snapped it into third gear and broke the 
tire loose, it grabbed and the front started to climb to the gods. *&^&%^$, I 
said, got it settled down and cursed the new grabby clutch. It was working like
a champ I just was not used to it. Swapped a few places and reeled off some 
good laps. Directly in front of me was placed 3-4-5-6 and these guys had some 
good dicing going on. two of the guys hate each other and I figured that 
it was only a matter of time before one of them threw and elbow or stuffed
the other one. Sure enough on lap 4 or 5 Jim Lester and Chuck Chinard came 
together in turn 12 with the larger Chinard binning it right in front of
me. I personally don't like either of them because they are going to hurt 
somebody with their antics. If they want to kill each other whats fine, but not
me.  I had some trouble putting away the #67 and he was slowing me up. I had 
4 good chances put I didn't want to toss it on the last race of the season. 
I set him up on the white flag lap but hit a Neutral at the top of the hill
and instead of taking 5th I dropped back to 7th. the #111 of Eldna Mckinn,
passed me as I drifted wide trying to stuff it into gear. He later told me 
that at the start all he saw was my front wheel go by his head, and he still 
didn't have his bike moving! Opps! Pinkey said I jumped the start, I thought it 
was close and was beaming of my almost 5th place spot. I did jump the 
start so I was docked a lap and ended up last. Didn't matter I rode to my
highest ever finish in one of the toughest classes of the weekend.   

Next up, MWSB. This time I nailed the start, came through the middle, drove it 
to the far side of the wall ala Pinkey and cut right in. Just stuffed it in, 
I was breathing fire and didn't back off and skated with the top 7 bikes out in 
the lead pack. Ran the race and worked up to 6th, smooth and consistent and 
was passed on the last lap for a 7th place spot. Not to worry, I beat Lester, 
Chinard, and Byrne. all guys that were beating me all year, so this was a 
personal best for me. My Dad was Pysched ! He has come to the races a few times 
and has seen me crash, get hurt, and never finish well. He saw me running up 
front so he had a stogie for the ride home. Overall It was a good weekend,
I even felt a little slow, knowing I could go faster which is a great sign.

I'm off to Roebling Road in Savannagh Georgia tomorrow. I'll write a report. 

    JD would've loved the topic of local sports talk show here yesterday
    afternoon: Is Auto Racing a Sport?
    
    Anyway, I found out that we are one of the few areas of the country
    where you can test drive a stock car on one of the local race tracks. 
    People were calling in saying how it was a real test of concentration
    and endurance, not to mention all the safety techniques that must be
    kept in mind.  One guy mentioned that all the G's made him nauseous.
    
    I think JD and I should try this out sometime.  Sounds better than a
    rollercoaster.
    
    Mike

    
    Mike,
    
    I doubt he would. I offered him free passes to one of my races, he
    scoffed.
    What Racetrack in the AZ area? Firebird ?
    
    

>    Anyway, I found out that we are one of the few areas of the country
>    where you can test drive a stock car on one of the local race tracks. 
>    People were calling in saying how it was a real test of concentration
>    and endurance, not to mention all the safety techniques that must be
>    kept in mind.  One guy mentioned that all the G's made him nauseous.
    

This is one thing I've learned, though I've never done it myself.  It's
not an easy thing at all, because it's not just getting out there and
putting the pedal to the floor and going b*lls out.   Those cars can
be really touchy, and all it takes is another car "stealing your air"
and your back end gets loose and you're history.

For about a grand you can get some laps in Charlotte at Richard Petty's
driving school.  My brother was looking into doing it....


'Saw

    We have Firebird Raceway and PIR (Phoenix International Raceway).  I
    can't remember which holds the open tryouts.
    
    One guy said he was cruising along for about 10 minutes.  His
    curiousity got the best of him and he looked to the side for 1 second
    to see how fast the landscape was passing him by.  Next thing you know,
    he's in a full spin and out of control.

I had a buddy who used to race Formula Fords.  He used to keep track of
his aiming points for turns by various points-of-interest on the landscape.
For example, for turn 3 at Lime Rock, he'd always line up on the roof of
the building that housed the restrooms....

And you NEVER look to the side...8^)

fwiw, each NASCAR driver has a spotter, and if you ever listen to the
radio traffic during the race, it's pretty interesting.   Some drivers and
their spotters are pretty chatty.

Jimmy Hensley for example, has a spotter who talks to him constantly:
	
	"Clear low, slide down.  Clear high"

etc etc etc.   

Others don't talk too much.

Mark Martin's spotter always calls the green flag on restarts, and he
always says it very calmly, four times.  It's been funny this season
because most times Mark Martin was right up where he could see it himself
on most restarts....

Dave Marcis, one of the independents who's been around forever (I used to
work with his mother-in-law) carries on the most interesting conversations
with his pit-crew and spotter, and is not averse to using the f-word every
now and then on the air.

Rusty doesn't talk much, but every once in a while his crew chief,
Buddy Parrot, will give him a little encouragement -- like "get after his
ass" or "drive it like you know how"


It definitely takes some concentration with all that stuff going on......


'Saw

Well, the Winston Cup season drew to a close yesterday, with Dale Earnhardt
clinching the Championship.

Coming into the race, Rusty Wallace needed to win, and Earnhardt had to
finish at least 33rd.  That would have given them a tie, and Rusty had
the tie-breaker on most wins.  Earnhardt raced a conservative (for him)
race, and clinched before the halfway mark of the race.   Rusty did go
on to win the race for his 10th victory of the season.

Following the checkered flag, Rusty and Dale did a "Kulwicki" Victory
Lap, Rusty carrying a 28 flag, Dale carrying a 7 flag.   No doubt a
little something cooked up by these two friends.


It was a long season, stretching all the way back to last February,
with Dale Jarret's win at Daytona.   More memorable for Wallace fans was
the incredible accident that, even now, is still almost unreal.  The fact
that Rusty walked away, while amazing, is testament to the safety features
of the cars themselves.

There was, believe it or not, a snow out in Atlanta too, which was 
mighty strange to see.

There was Rusty's string of three wins in a row not long after, and then
there was the second major accident a week or so later.  This one he
was not so lucky, breaking some ribs and a wrist.  

I finally met him a couple weeks after that, and his wrist was still pretty
tender.  But he said he'd win at New Hampshire, and he did.  It was
a great race to watch in person.

The following weekend he finished second to Earnhardt at Pocono, most
of his fans figuring if he'd have had one more gear he'd have won.
Despite Buddy's urging him to "get after his ass" on the radio, Rusty had
to settle for second.

There were more wins coming, for a total of 10 in all.  The final margin
of victory for Earnhardt was 80 points, which, if one wants to point
to a reason, could be considered the broken sway bar in the second to the
last race of the season.

At any rate, for Rusty, it was a great season, save that he didn't win
the championship.  He predicted 10 victories before the season started,
and he did win 10.   More importantly however, by adding Buddy Parrot
as the crew chief, he and Don Miller and Roger Penske turned things around
from the previous season, and finished well up in the standings.


It was a year of incredible, and sometimes tragic change, as well.
While Rusty experienced two horrific crashes on the track and survived,
two well loved and respected drivers experienced crashes off the track
and didn't.

NASCAR lost their champion last April, when Alan Kulwicki's plane crashed
on approach to the airport near Bristol, Tennesee.   This stunned and
shocked the racing world, and changed the look of the field as Hooters
pulled their sponsorship from the 7 car.

In August, Davey Allison lost his life in a helicopter crash at Talladega.
For the rest of the season, each car carried a small #7 and a small
#28 as silent tribute to each of the drivers.

The changes will keep on going too.  While there are more driver changes
than I can remember or list, one big change is that Penske Racing South
and Rusty Wallace have inked a deal with Ford, so that next year, the
#2 Miller Genuine Draft car will be a Thunderbird.  I have mixed feelings
about that, but on the whole, knowing how the team prepares, and what they
are looking to accomplish, the deal with Ford must fit well into their
plans.

So the season for 1993 is done, but, as always, Daytona is not that
far off......


'Saw

    Hey 'Saw, if it's any consolation, I'll say again this year what I said
    last year when Kulwicki won the championship-- any system that allows a
    guy who won 6 races to beat out a guy who won 10 races due to a 3-race 
    difference in DNFs and a couple more money finishes is bigtime fouled 
    up.  Almost a two-to-one edge in what should really count-- winning the 
    race-- is just too much to wash away on the technicalities, in my opinion.
    
    glenn
    

    glenn,
    
    Judging overall performance purely on the criterion of Titles is
    short-sighted and not Intellectually Honest.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    >                     -< Oh and BTW, 10-6 <> 2:1. >-
    
    That's where that little word "almost" comes in, Chris.  Try looking
    into that reading comprehension thing everyone's been suggesting to
    you for some time now.
    
    And I'm not judging overall performance on "titles".  We're talking 
    wins and losses.  I don't think NASCAR should go strictly by wins and
    losses, but they've got a weighting problem in there somewhere.  What
    they're doing is akin to ignoring a fantastic Dean Smif-like regular
    season winning percentage (neither of these good ol' boys pulled in the
    big tuna at Daytona) by concentrating excessively on stuff like "minutes 
    leading game" and "blowout losses avoided".  Don't make a whole lotta 
    sense to this ignorant country boy...
    
    glenn
      

Well, basically any kind of auto-racing is weighted.   I almost has to
be, since there is only one winner.

I prefer the simplicity of Formula I -- the first six places get decreasing
points starting at 9, I believe, going something like 9,6,5,3,2,1 or
something like that.

NASCAR has a scale that works all the way back to 40th place I believe.
That does encourage cars to get back out there and try to get some points.
NASCAR also has bonuses for leading a lap and most laps led.  It's a bitch
to try and figure out what you need to do to move up x number of places.


What pisses me off more than the point scale and stuff is that this year
NASCAR made a lot of rule changes during the season.  While this is not
likely to affect someone like Rusty or Dale, with major sponsorship, it's
very difficult on independent owners -- on the high end Darrell Waltrip,
and on the lower end, ie. no major sponsor, Dave Marcis.   That is something
that should not be done....

One configuration change in the rules requires the team to change
ALL it's cars -- which on some teams can be up to eight cars.  That's
really unnecessary, I think......


'Saw

�Well, basically any kind of auto-racing is weighted.   
    
    Very true.  I've seen some of those drivers trying to squeeze behind a
    steering wheel.

    Now why is it everytime I pop up in_a non-ACC note and make a salient
    point everybody has to bring Dean up?!  I feel like Vanna White who's
    been type-cast as a gorgeous letter-turner and just cain't even get in
    for a reading for a good meaty drama roll.  
    
    As to 10-6 being "almost" 2:1 (.500 ~ = .600) me_thinks your scale is a
    bit, er, tipped.  
    
    Giving the Title to Earnhardt is rewarding Consistent Excellent and
    should be applauded in our Title-hungry country which touts "Win
    At All Costs" over virtues like integrity and sportsmanship.
    
    
    - NASCAR Chris
    

>    
>    Giving the Title to Earnhardt is rewarding Consistent Excellent and
>    should be applauded in our Title-hungry country which touts "Win
>    At All Costs" over virtues like integrity and sportsmanship.
    


Yabbut, don't forget the Inseminator gets more calls that the Mailman.

The NASCAR officials came close to penalizing his usual tactics up
in Loudon, but it seems Larena Bobbit must have visted them the night
before.

It's been said before that one of these years he's gonna have a serious
one where HE gets hurt, and that might change his style a little.


As to the weight of NASCAR drivers, you must not have seen too many of them.
For the most part, as you look down pit road, most of them are either
tall and thin (Bill Elliot, Rusty Wallace, Michael Waltrip are probably
the tallest) or short and stocky.   Geoff Bodine is probably one of the
shortest, and Harry Gant (at age 53) has a bit of a belly, but not as
big as mine.   Richard Petty was, and is,  a toothpick.   Mark Martin,
at 5'4" is tiny, but he pumps a lot of iron and is a wiry guy....

Probably the fattest guy that I've seen is a guy who's been on the circuit
for year as an independent, and who rarely qualifies any more, but he
was runner-up in the 1972 season, an old guy named James Hilton.
He's quite a character, and has a big bushy white beard, a cigar
permanently clamped in his teeth, and no sponsorship....


Most of these guys are pretty strong, and have to be to do what they
do.


'Saw

�               <<< Note 78.238 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
�                         -< Oh and BTW, 10-6 <> 2:1. >-
�
�    glenn,
�    
�    Judging overall performance purely on the criterion of Titles is
�    short-sighted and not Intellectually Honest.  
�    
�    
�    - ACC Chris
    
    ACChris, I've asked you nicely before to keep the Dean Smith stuff in
    the ACC topic.

The results for driver of the year were released this morning.

Nigel Mansell, whose historic accomplishment of winning the World Driving
Championship last year, and the Indy Car Championship this year is
unprecedented, took top honors.

Runner up, most probably for his ten victories and knack of suriving those
little shunts he had, was my main man, Rusty Wallace.

I don't remember who was third.....


'Saw

    
> Runner up, most probably for his ten victories and knack of suriving those
> little shunts he had, was my main man, Rusty Wallace.
    
    What?!  Over Winston Cup champ Dale?  Better get Knorr on the case...
    
    glenn
    

>    What?!  Over Winston Cup champ Dale?  Better get Knorr on the case...
>    
>    glenn


It's unsubstantiated, but my source said that Dale wasn't on the list.

Hmmmm.....    

    
    
    >> do try to keep up.
    
        Solly cholly.
    
     Where was I ... oh yeah..
    
      hell, the you don't do any work, the motor does it all. 
    
     Road Racing, real difficult. Right.
    
    
      

	I know this is not an accepted norm in this file (replying in the
	appropriate note), but nobody ever accused me of being normal.

	re motorcycle racing on ice:

	I saw that on TV once.  I think they were either in Russia or 
	Germany.  They had what looked like 6-penney nails sticking out if 
	the tires and a piece of tire wrapped around their inside knee.

	It was really cool, no pun intended.  One guy did get run over by 
	the folks behind him when he spilled it on one turn.  Not a pretty
	picture.


	billl

Oooohhhhh, he rides a motorcycle...

Whenever TH talkes abotu road racing I always assume he means REAL road racing - 
on foot, mano-mano.

=Bob=

    NASCAR driver Neil Bonnet critically injured in a crash todya during
    practice at Daytona.
    
    JaKe
    

I heard that too.

He skidded on some oil and supposedly hit the wall head on in 
Turn 4.

It's too bad.  Neil was making a comeback, having had a couple of
good showings last year here and there....


'Saw

      Just heard Neil died.  No confirmation 'cause waiting next of kin
    notification.
    
      Too bad...Another sad day for another great driver....
    
      Tim

NASCAR announced it was driver error, but all the other drivers were saying
that it was pretty windy on the track and that the cars were feeling
pretty loose.

At least he died doing something he wanted to do.


As a lot of the signs down there said:

	
		RIP Neil -- Racin' in a better place.....

Another driver was killed yesterday in practice at Daytona.

Rodney Orr, who was making efforts to break into the Winston Cup series
smacked into the wall and died.

Word around the pits is that he was VERY inexperienced and there were not
many drivers who wanted to be out there on the track with him......


'SAw

    
    These two deaths sure are giving me the spooks. I'm slated to run the
    600cc supersport race in on 13 March as a prelude to the Daytona 200
    superbike race. Last year we had a superbike racer killed during the
    200 and it wasn't pretty, and now two deaths during qualifying for the
    big NASCAR race. 
    
    Superspeedways are unforgiving places, I hate those *&^%$# walls.
     

I don't know about Orr, but I'm believing that Bonnet was because of the
wind.

I don't know how the wind will affect you on the bike.  I do know that
with the cars it has a tendency to get underneath and make 'em loose.
Least that's what I've heard.


btw, Richard Childress, car owner of Earnhardt's car and a friend of Bonnett
said that he couldn't believe it was driver error.  He said that Bonnett
would tset tires for them, and put 500 miles on a set, come in and say
"it's a little loose but I think I can get a few more laps out of them".
Childress said it definitely was NOT driver error....

fwiw,
'Saw

    
> btw, Richard Childress, car owner of Earnhardt's car and a friend of Bonnett
> said that he couldn't believe it was driver error.  He said that Bonnett
> would tset tires for them, and put 500 miles on a set, come in and say
> "it's a little loose but I think I can get a few more laps out of them".
> Childress said it definitely was NOT driver error....
    
    I have to wonder about that... these guys are not about to point
    fingers at a great man and colleague who passed on the way Bonnett 
    did, and I respect that.  Even the term "driver error" is a relative 
    one, because the reflex response of the driver to changing conditions 
    is not just present or absent, but is qualitative.  Bonnett appeared 
    to have some real problems in his comeback, which he himself
    acknowledged.  I don't want to get into a philosophical debate over 
    the risks in life, because I for one don't believe that even death is
    too great a price in the pursuit of a goal, but NASCAR has to draw the
    line somewhere with their standards, don't they?  With the doctor's
    advice that there was serious risk, and the accident records, this case
    appeared to be just about as far as they could push the limit...
    
    glenn
     

    
    I fell that they should always run the 115% rule. That's the way we
    work it in AMA pro racing (Motorcycles) If your speeds are not up to
    snuff, you sit. 
    
    I don't know about Bonnett, but chances are it was driver error. Sad to
    say but that's the reality. Those cars crank up to 200 mph with no room
    for error at those speeds, one mistake and it tumble time. 
    
    For me, I can hit tops about 150-160 in the tuck behind someones draft
    on my 600cc supersport honda. That is moving on two wheels with a
    contact tire patch about as thick as a snickers bar at those speeds.
    
     If I make a mistake on a track like charlotte, Daytona, Loudon,
    Pocono, the walls will make sure I get good and busted up if not
    killed. Bonnett just could'nt stay away and a man like him should have
    known better. I will miss his show on TNN with that down home country
    feel, ans most of all that twinkle in his eye when interviewing or
    talking about racing. I'm not a big NASCAR fan but I liked NB. RIP.
    

Like Glenn said, "driver error" has a lot of latitude for interpretation
I guess, and I've been thinking about it since he said it.

Driver error could be "Well, I think she's a little loose but I can
handle it" and then pushing it a bit.  Or it could be "Damn she's loose
and I'm losing it" and over-correcting and then it's too late.

I don't think it was a case of someone having known better.  I'd liken it
to LT coming back after the Achilles.  YOu want to go out on your terms.
Perhaps that's hubris, perhaps not.

At any rate, the man lived and breathed racing, and somehow I feel that 
if he was going to go, it was appropriate that he go doing something 
he loved.

I'll miss Neil -- his commentary was always well done and informative.
I never met him, but wish I had....


'Saw

�I don't think it was a case of someone having known better.  I'd liken it
�to LT coming back after the Achilles.  YOu want to go out on your terms.
�Perhaps that's hubris, perhaps not.
    
    Would you still feel that way if he took someone else with him?

>    Would you still feel that way if he took someone else with him?


I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Just like any football player konws he can be paralyzed or killed from a neck
injury, every driver who straps himself in knows what can happen.

Drivers, as a "group", have ways to deal with over-agressiveness and stuff
like that.  Ernie Irvan was taken to task a couple of years ago, and has
improved significantly.   The fans still call him "Swervin' Irvan", but
the drivers have grown to respect him.


You accept the risk when you step in the car.  Perhaps you don't like the
new rookies out there.  Last year, a lot of the drivers grumbleda bout
Jeff Gordon.  He soon figured out how easy it was to get out of shape
and eating pieces of pit walls, especially when you get tapped "by accident".


So, no, I have no problem with it.

And, finally, for the most part, the "back markers" usually don't have
deadly accidents during the races, as they tend to keep well out of the
way, and are managed by the flagman.   In practice, obviously, the others
tend to keep well clear....


'Saw

  When we were kids, my brother and I were big fans of motor racing. We got
Chris Econmaki's (sp?) weekly paper, we got Road and Track, listened to the
Indi 500 on radio (it wasn't on TV back then), watched Formula I and the 24
endurance race at Le Mans on ABC. To quote the CBS guy, were "were big fans". 

  As the years went by, half the drivers died. Ricardo Rodregas, Pedro
Rodregas, Lorenzo Bandini, Bruce McLearn, Fire Ball Roberts, Eddie Sacks, the
one driver that somehow seemed to be above it all was Jimmy Clark. Everyone
agreed he was the best that ever lived. He was just too good for "driver
error". He was just too good to die. 

  Then one day during a Formula II race on a wet track, he got his Lotus turned
sidewards and smashed into a tree. He never made it to the hospital.

  That was about it for my brother and I. When Roberto Clementi died and the
baseball world went into shock we realized we'd been going through all that
several times a year. It wasn't worth it. We let our R&T subscription run
out and went back to being baseball and football fans. Now all our heroes get
old and gray, go fishing, and sell shaving cream on TV.

  George

    Listening to a race on the radio???  This epitomizes the derivation of
    the term fan from fanatic.

  Yup, we were fanatics. Of course it was common to listen to lots of sports on
the radio back then. We often had a Sox game on the Radio when we were working
and when we couldn't go to our highschool basketball games we'd listen to them
on the radio. 

  It was all we had, it wasn't on TV, what could we do?

  vvvvvvaaaaaaarrrrrrrRRRRROOOOOOOooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmm

  George

I'm still a race fan.  Yeah, guys get killed, but hey, you gotta go sometime,
and I figure if you go doing something that you wanna do, you're luckier
than most.

And you could make the argument that to go quickly in a racing crash
is far better a fate than what was dealt to Tony Conigliaro, or many
of the football players who are spending their old and gray years in
constant pain, barely able to walk, with a plethora of joint replacement
operations to look forward too.....


'Saw

    
    Comparing Racing (motorsports) to football comebacks is apples-oranges
    stuff. 
    
    When the new guys come throught the ranks in roadracing that I do, they
    are always squirly. when you run the amatuer ranks, junior, and always
    win, then go t expert thinking you can do the same thing well you
    can't.
    Everyone at the top of the field of cars or bike are damn good racers,
    the new guys and old guys making comebacks are what you need to watch
    for. Inexpierence vs. Rustyness  I don't know which one is worse. 
    
    New racers that step up theough the ranks are always given a little
    room then slammed. I've done it and so has everyone else who races any
    form of motorsports. What it boils down to is a big game of chicken at
    high speed, and being the new guy your going to have to earn it. Nobody
    is going to roll over and hand it to you, you want it come and get it,
    but you may pay a price. Every racer knows this, and if you want to get
    to the top the road goes straight through the other drivers.
    
    re .Note 78.266 by HELIX::MAIEWSKI
    
    Technology has come along way since the frequent deaths of yesteryear.
    They still happen but not a much. Chassis building is the best its ever
    been, and with new alloys/carbon fiber being used  it combines strength
    with light wieght and maximum protection. 
    
     When it comes time for me to retire, I will know and never look back.
    Comebacks are for people who only know one thing, even after conquering
    it still have to comeback to prove that they are still great. Not me,
    go out like a Jordon with your health, happiness, and on top. People want
    to remember a gracefull and alive champion, not an old struggling dead
    one.         

>    
>     When it comes time for me to retire, I will know and never look back.
>    Comebacks are for people who only know one thing, even after conquering
>    it still have to comeback to prove that they are still great. Not me,
>    go out like a Jordon with your health, happiness, and on top. People want
>    to remember a gracefull and alive champion, not an old struggling dead
>    one.         
>

But TH, that's assuming you go out on YOUR terms.

Petty went out on his terms, and probably won't be coming back, especially
now that he's a car owner.

Bonnett didn't go out on his terms, and I can see why he wanted to come back.


I agree with you, btw, technology has helped the cars become safer places.
After watching Rusty fly at Daytona last year, I was really impressed with
the fact that he walked away with a cut chin -- but then I saw the technology
and computer-modeling that goes into building those things, and it
is amazing....


'Saw

�    New racers that step up theough the ranks are always given a little
�    room then slammed. I've done it and so has everyone else who races any
�    form of motorsports. What it boils down to is a big game of chicken at
�    high speed, and being the new guy your going to have to earn it. Nobody
�    is going to roll over and hand it to you, you want it come and get it,
�    but you may pay a price. Every racer knows this, and if you want to get
�    to the top the road goes straight through the other drivers.
    
    Ahh, sportsmanship at its finest.  And people were riled up about a
    highschool basketball player barking like a dog.

    
    O.K. I agree about not going out on your terms, but I would have been
    pissed if a racer had been ill prepped to compete and took me or
    another person out. There is enough going on during racing. Worrying
    about another guys is not what I want to be doing.
    
    Death in motorsports will always be there, moreso than in any other
    sport ans it's a risk that we all take when the entry form goes in the
    mail...
    

    re.Note 78.270
    
    Until you have banged fairings at 140 mph or raced a stock car at
    watkins glenn or swapped paint in an imsa machine don't talk to me
    about sportsmanship. I am a good sport and would *NEVER* intentionally
    hurt anyone on the track. The fact is you must earn your place on the
    grid. When you have been to the track I have then maybe you can comment
    about racing and sportsmanship. Assuming that we are all a bunch of
    bloodthirsty rednecks with roman chariot wheel desintigrators without
    any feeling or sportsmanship is sterotyping at it's best.
     

    
    
    	Yabbut -TH,
    
    While I sorta enjoy the way you describe what you do, I never really
    "identified" with it because other than doing a little fooling around
    with my 450GS rice burner 12 years ago, I didn't know what to make
    of your pta (part time activity).
    
    Until, lasted week some time!  I happend to channel surf through ESPN2
    one night and came across a bike race show.  Don't remember the name,
    but it had "superbikes" and 600cc and stuff.  WOW!!!!!!!  If that's
    what you do, I'm impressed!!!!!
    
    (now that I've sucked up to you, how much help ya wanna give me in
    doing a engine-rebuild on my Triumph????)   
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    hiding the fact that it's a triumph TR-6, not a screaming 2 banger with
    a weird gearshift location (opposite side)
    Kev
    

Rubbing and bumping is as much as part of NASCAR racing as gasoline,
tires, helmets and bright paint schemes are.

The best expect it and know how to do it.

In fact, someone related a story that Darrell Waltrip told about Neil Bonnett.

It was near the end of a race and a caution came out.  Waltrip pitted and
got four fresh ones, and Bonnett stayed out.  With about 5 laps left they
went to green and it took all of those five laps for Waltrip to
get into a position to beat Bonnett, but he had to bump him and push
him high to do it.

Waltrip won, and as he was coming down pit lane at the end of the race,
fist held high out the window, someone bumped him hard in the a**.

It was Bonnett, and it was just his way of saying, "look out, cause next
time I'll win".......


As long as you all know the rules.....


'Saw

�Assuming that we are all a bunch of
�    bloodthirsty rednecks with roman chariot wheel desintigrators without
�    any feeling or sportsmanship is sterotyping at it's best.
    
    Your initial reply and subsequent challange don't do much to dispel the
    stereotype.

    
    Mac, I don't want to get into a pissing contest, but it's a tough sport
    with wierd unwritten rules. We (racers) know them and they are learned
    through competing at various track around the country.  I guess the
    best way to see it first hand is to try it yourself. 
    
    Kev, the truimph, err, well, gulp.  Good luck.
    

>    through competing at various track around the country.  I guess the
>    best way to see it first hand is to try it yourself. 

    
    
>>    Kev, the truimph, err, well, gulp.  Good luck.
  
    
    And THERE you have it Sports fans!!!!  Another example of bark vs.
    bite!  A REAL Sportsman would have rolled up his sleeves and dove right
    in!
    
    I remain,
    JD_for_Kev
    
    
    ;^)
      

    Thank you, Mike "I can't bowl above 180 with a straight ball so it must
    be impossible" Heiser.

    The local rag reported that Orr's vehicle got a little airborne(how do
    ya do that??), flipped on it's side, and whacked the wall, roof first.
    He died of massive head and upper body trauma.
    
    JaKe
    

yabbut, is Car Racing a sport? :-)

TCM for JD

The Crazy Met

>    The local rag reported that Orr's vehicle got a little airborne(how do
>    ya do that??), flipped on it's side, and whacked the wall, roof first.
>    He died of massive head and upper body trauma.
    
It's pretty simple.

The cars have spoilers in the rear (which, through a rule change are allowed
to have more angle this season, btw) and aerodynamically the car is built
to keep as much down-pressure as possible on the tires, within the confines
of the rules.

On the Superspeedways (which I think are any of the tracks above 2 miles) 
they're required to have some other features to help with the aerodynamics.
They're required to have a window in the right door, and they have to have
a special "skirt" on the lower sides of the car to help prevent air from
getting under it.

Usually a car gets airborne if it has gotten loose and gotten sideways.
Watch footage of Rusty Wallace's spectacular crash at Daytona last year,
or the late Davey Allison's crash at Pocono two years ago.

In both cases the cars got sideways (helped by a slight bump -- Waltrip
in Allison's case, Derrick Cope in Wallace's), and when their wheels
hit dirt the cars bounced a little.  Air got underneath, and like a leaf
in the wind, they tended to flutter up.

Another interesting thing about Wallace's crash is that, at around 200 mph,
as the back end came around and that air came in through the driver's side
window, it blew the windshield out.   That footage was capture on Geoff
Bodine's in-car camera, and the windshield actually hit Bodine's Motorcraft
Ford.


Now, this is just speculation in a big way, but I'd be willing to be that
if the crash had been one of the bigger teams cars, the driver might have
walked away.   I know in Wallace's case, they put a tremendous amount of
money and research into chassis design.   The Daytona crash was survived
because of an extra bar they had added to the roll cage, primarily, and
after the Talladega crash, they added a safety strap for his left arm,
which works similary to a seat belt in a car -- it's free-floating until
it gets into a crash, in which case it tightens up.

My speculation is that Orr, being inexperienced and trying to break into
the big leagues, had little money/sponsorship and was probably working
with a) an older car, or b) a car meeting the minimum requirements.

But I'd have to know more about the crash.....


'Saw

Didn't see the Orr's crash itself, but saw pictures of the aftermat.

The car was basically a sardine can as the roof was only a few inches above the
doors.  Instead of putting the body on a stretcher and covering it with a sheet,
it looked like they covered the entire car and pulled it away to blot Orr 
out of there.

	Zamboni

>The car was basically a sardine can as the roof was only a few inches above the
>doors.  Instead of putting the body on a stretcher and covering it with a sheet,
>it looked like they covered the entire car and pulled it away to blot Orr 
>out of there.

That's standard procedure when a crash is really, really bad.   They
did it with J.D. MacDuffy up at Watkins Glen two years ago.  That one
was so bad that Jimmy Means (one of the stalwart independents on the circuit),
who was also part of the same crash and was out and the first one to
MacDuffy's crash, needed 6 months of therapy to cope with it....

It sounds as if Orr's chassis needed more work.......


'SAw

Well, I didn't see the race, but here's what I heard.

Sterling Marlin won.  It was his first win in 17 years.  He was one of
those "always the bridesmaid" types -- lots of seconds and top 10s, but
never hit the winner's circle.

Rusty had a tough day.  He was crashed out early in the race -- a little
bit of contact, I understand as he was moving up a spot.  I believe
it was John Andretti who tapped him, but I haven't seen the tape.


'Saw

    Saw the 12 car crash happen whilst looking at the tube while me and TCM
    was sipping brewskis at HOOTERS yesterday.
    
    JaKe
    

It was actually amazing that JaKe could focus on the TV even for a minute.
He was, shall we say, enamored of one of the waitresses.

The Crazy Met

    
>>It was actually amazing that JaKe could focus on the TV even for a minute.
>>He was, shall we say, enamored of one of the waitresses.
    
    Which one????  Ya mean the one who was 3 ft tall, nothing but legs up
    to her haid, and the top of her haid was flat, that one????
    
    JaKe
    

    
>>It was actually amazing that JaKe could focus on the TV even for a minute.
>>He was, shall we say, enamored of one of the waitresses.
    
    
    Well, it was "HOOTERS" wasn't it????
    
    JaKe
    

yeah thats the one. course your description is missing one feature.

The Crazy Met

	Sheesh, yunz didn't even invite me!



	billl

I admit billl, that was an oversight on our part. But think of it this 
way, we did it for your own good so as not to upset Rhonda. yeah thats
the ticket.

The Crazy Met

    Right, TCM, not to upset Rhonda...right, what would she a thought if'n
    you was to head to the 'Burgh fer a get together, AND, that get
    together was at HOOTERS?????
    
    She woulda had the locksmith on the own-phay as soon as ya was outta
    the driveway, so's she coulda had the locks changed....
    
    JaKe
    

Also, Jessica would have been SOOOOO disappointed with her dad; and at such 
an impressionable age. I mean, JaKe, we did it for his own good and this 
is the thanks we get.

The Crazy Met

    Hey, Jake, TCM and billlllllllll, get a room will ya.

Hey Mac you really are confused today; ain't no lovefest ala Ginny and ???
going on here.

The Crazy Met

    Gin and who?

    Well first it was Gin and Saw then Gina and JaKe then Gin and you so
    I figured ??? was the most appropriate entry.
    
    The Crazy met
    

I'm still waiting on the tape -- should have it in a couple of days, but
Rusty always has shit luck at Daytona, at least for the 500.

I haven't seen the new car yet, only stills of it, but hope to get an
up close at Pocono this summer -- or maybe even up at Loudon.....


'Saw

Missed the Rockingham race, but for the third time in a row at Rockingham,
Rusty took it.  He led for a lot of the race I understand.  

Evidently, the car is dialed in, and from one interview that I did hear,
he likes the way it handles....

Sterling Marlin seems to have finally found his ride.  He finished second,
and I'd bet he's leading the points race at this early juncture.....


'Saw

Didn't see yesterday's race, because my cable company doesn't carry
TBS.  I'm not even sure which race it was except that it was a 300.

Ernie Irvan won the race after he and Rusty Wallace swapped the lead
a bunch of times.  Rusty finished second.

Also, just getting a snippet of the standings, Irvan is in first, and
Wallace is in 8th.


More one of these days when I can actually watch a race....


'Saw

    I thought it was a 400...
    

>    I thought it was a 400...
>    

Could have been, but when my brother was throwing in a tape Sunday, before
we went to the range, I heard him say "Let's see, three hundred miles
should be x hours"...  So I assumed it was a 300....


'aw

   
	400 laps on a 3/4 mile track equals 300 miles.


   Cadzilla2

>   
>	400 laps on a 3/4 mile track equals 300 miles.
>

There you go....8^)

Well, Mr. Potato Head won the Food City 500 yesterday and Rusty finished
7th after cutting a tire on someone else's tire weight.

But the big news of the day was Dave Marcis's 10th place finish.   Marcis
is an independent who has been running for years HIS way, remaining
competitive (by that I mean qualifying for races and usually remaining
running at the end, if back in the pack).   

Marcis has a sponsor this year, at least for some of the races, and it 
was great to see him finish top 10.....


About 20 years ago, I used to work with his mother-in-law, so I've always
been interested in how Dave does....


'Saw

�Well, Mr. Potato Head won the Food City 500 yesterday 
    
    Rich Gedman is racing cars now?
    
    I'd heard that Jack Clark was going to start driving his own dragsters,
    but I didn't realize that Geddy was now into motorsports.

>    Rich Gedman is racing cars now?
>    
>    I'd heard that Jack Clark was going to start driving his own dragsters,
>    but I didn't realize that Geddy was now into motorsports.

Nah, Mr. Potato Head in NASCAR is Dale Earnhardt.  I call him 
The Inseminator (because he BANGS everything), but a lot of folks call
him Mr. Potato Head.

Who knows WHAT Gedman is doing now....


'Saw

The real story over the weekend was Mark Martin pulling off the track in
the lasted lap of the 250 on Saturday. They were in the process of
finishing the race under a yellow flag. Everyone was congratulating
Martin who thought that he had already won the race. So he pulled off the
track allowing the second place finisher to actually win the race.

TTom

Yeah, I heard about that.

Too bad for Mark, but he got a little mixed up.  At least he could laugh
about it afterwards.  Then yesterday, he got into some sh*t on the track
from another car that had split a shock, and he ended up in the wall.
Tough weekend for ol' Mark....


'Saw

	Having started 24th, the man in the black Chevy #3 hard charges to
another NASCAR win on the short track at Bristol Tn. Earnhardt came on the lead
the last 100 laps or so to take the win. Several driver's made contact with the
wall and each other during the event. Season leader Ernie Ervan's ford spent
most of the race behind pit row with a blown timing chain and valve train. Saw's
buddy Rusty Wallace dropped out of contention after a cut tire almost took him
to the wall in turn three. He kept control, but spent several laps in the pits
for repair. With laps being turned in 16 seceonds, a long under green pit stop
will easily put you two laps down .

 The win puts Earnhardt solidly in second place in the Winston Cup points chase.


  Emerson Fitapaldi won the Phonix 200 Indy car race. This race had a wicked
crash early in the race. With two cars spun out and setting in the middle on one
corner, a rookie comes around a little high and T-Bones one the two. The car
literally splits into at a point bewteen the drive and the engine. The guy
walked away!!

>	Having started 24th, the man in the black Chevy #3 hard charges to
>another NASCAR win on the short track at Bristol Tn. 

Translation:   The Inseminator banged his way to the front 8^) 8^) 8^)


Actually, he hasn't won a short track race in a while, if I remember correctly.


>corner, a rookie comes around a little high and T-Bones one the two. The car
>literally splits into at a point bewteen the drive and the engine. The guy
>walked away!!

I saw that on the news, but I didn't find out if anyone was hurt.  That's
amazing, because when he plowed into them, it was like sh*t flying EVERYWHERE!

    	Three cars tangled, with two together on the turn and one further
    	down. Jacques Villenueve came around on the outside, got loose
    	in the gray stuff, and hit Matsushita right behind the driver
    	compartment. Hiro's car was cut in half, and his driver 
    	compartment went sliding across the track. No one really hurt.
    
    	Dr. Trammell said Hiro had a sore shoulder, but everyone was
    	in good shape.
    
    	When I saw the accident, I thought, "Oh no, someone's really
    	in trouble here." I wonder how much Villenueve was able to
    	steer away from Hiro and toward the engine?
    
    	Scott

    
       I was watching the race with some friends and when the 
      accident happened I was afraid that someone would be ser-
      iously hurt. That no one was hurt is a testament to the 
      incredible engineering that goes into the cars. It must 
      have scared the hell out of Matsushita. It must have scared
      Villeneuve, too because he didn't slam his brakes on until
      the last second, I don't think he saw Matsushita until just
      before impact.

>       I was watching the race with some friends and when the 
>      accident happened I was afraid that someone would be ser-
>      iously hurt. That no one was hurt is a testament to the 
>      incredible engineering that goes into the cars. It must 
>      have scared the hell out of Matsushita. It must have scared
>      Villeneuve, too because he didn't slam his brakes on until
>      the last second, I don't think he saw Matsushita until just
>      before impact.

They've made tremendous safety improvements in the open-wheeled Indy
cars over the last few years.  The one thing they still haven't quite
worked out, and may never, is the way to protect the driver's legs in
those wall accidents.

I'm suprised that Villeneuve didn't hurt his legs more, but all-in-all
it was very fortunate all the way around.....


'Saw

Article: 2273
From: [email protected] (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.news.interest.quirks,clari.sports.motor
Subject: David Green Wins Goody's 250
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 17:02:17 PDT
 
	BRISTOL, Tenn. (AP) -- David Green was awarded a bizarre victory
in the Goody's 250 when leader Mark Martin mistakenly pulled off
the track 300 yards before he was to take the checkered flag under
caution Saturday.
	``That's the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life, I think.
What can I say? I thought it was over,'' said Martin, who dominated
the Busch Grand National event at Bristol International Raceway by
leading 195 of the 250 laps.
	Martin was about 10 car-lengths ahead of Green when the final
caution flag flew after Robert Pressley slammed into the third-turn
wall on lap 246.
	The extent of the damage to Pressley's car and the fluid spilled
on the track made it almost immediately apparent that the race
would end under caution.
	All the cars bunched up behind the pace car and began slowly
circling the track. When the leaders crossed the start-finish line
to begin the final lap, the flag man clearly displayed the white
flag, meaning there was one lap left.
	But as the field came out of the fourth turn and the flag man
reached for the checkered flag, Martin ducked down out of the
racing groove and headed for victory lane.
	A stunned Green kept his Chevrolet in line and took the
checkered flag at 35 mph.
	It was the only lap he led.
	``He's won his share anyway,'' Green said of Martin, who was
headed for his 16th career Grand National victory. ``It was time
for me to get one.''
	Green said he had resigned himself to finishing second.
	``On the white flag lap, I pulled up next to Mark and waved to
him -- congratulated him,'' he said.
	Instead, Martin handed Green career victory No. 2, and his first
since April 1991, a span of 56 races.
	``I've been pulling for David Green, wanting him to win a
race,'' Martin said, ``but not like that.''
	NASCAR officials said it was the first time ever in either
Winston Cup or Grand National competition that a driver mistakenly
gave away a victory on the final lap.
	``I feel bad for Mark,'' Green said.
	``There's not much I can say,'' added Martin, who had taken the
lead on lap 167 and built his advantage to as much as 15
car-lengths. ``I made a mistake. I'll bet you that will never
happen to me again.''
	For all his domination, Martin, the pole-sitter, wound up ninth.
	Tommy Houston, who led once for 36 laps, came in third. Jeff
Green, David's brother, and Dale Jarrett and Larry Pearson rounded
out the top five.

    Main are youse guys in sports deprivation or what??
    
    Watching NASCAR on a Sunday PM...(now *live* might be a different
    story).. whew, watchin me lawn grow provides mo' excitement than
    watchin' a bunch_a_rebel yahoos lean left on da wheel... 8^)'s
    
    MikeL
    

This was one of those weekends where I wasn't quite as productive as
watching the lawn grow. I came to the conclusion that I should do as
little as possible for 48 straight hours.

Major accomplishment was taping 10 movies whilst watching anything and
everything that any body thought was sports, except baseball. Watchin'
'em drive fast and turn left has that beat bad.

>    ... a bunch_a_rebel yahoos 

Them's fightin words. Come on down and we'll make something of it...

TTom

Well, I like baseball, but I watched the Broons and the Race....

    
    
    		Yabbut my productivity included almost finishing the put
    back together of the TR-6 front suspension, including new shocks,
    bushings and inspecting the rotors to see if I wanna have them cut
    or just get new ones.  I forget the measurements I took but it's gonna
    be vewy, vewy close to undersize if they're cut.  New rotors will
    run ~$32 ea.
    	I also uncrated the new (rebuilt) engine and it's sitting  on the
    hoist ready to have the head bolted on.  The clutch is back-ordered
    but when it arrives, I expect that in about a week, I'll have the
    engine and tranny reassembled and be ready to stick the sucker
    back in.  Perhaps I'll be ready to do some back road motoring around
    mid-late May.
    
    I didn't watch baseball, the race, or the Masters.  I had the radion
    on instead.
    
    I remain,
    the guy with greasy fingernails!
    Kev
    

>>, except baseball.
    
    Well I love baseball and I have a vewy hard time watching it on the
    tube(careful or we'll have Mssr. Brydie in here!).
    
    
>>     Watchin'
>>'em drive fast and turn left has that beat bad.

    
    Oh I dunno..peas in a pod.
    
>>>    ... a bunch_a_rebel yahoos 

>>Them's fightin words. Come on down and we'll make something of it...

    Awright an open invitation fer this Yankee carpetbagger to invade
    Charlotte. 'Bout time y'all had youse butt whipped again..
    BTW Mr Haas, since when do most West Virginnyians consider themselves
    "rebels"?? Revisionist history? I knows West Virginny is south of the
    Mason-Dixon line but youse was pro-Union, n'est-ce-pas? Or is ah all
    wet?  Next thang you'll be tellin' me that dem eastern Tennessee
    heelbillies was "rebels" also.....

    
    MikeL
    

>    I remain,
>    the guy with greasy fingernails!
>    Kev

You should pick up a pair of them Mechanix gloves the pit crews wear.
Excellent protection for yer hands.  You know, to keep them soft enough
for holding your daughter (or yer wife ;^))


'Saw
    

>    Awright an open invitation fer this Yankee carpetbagger to invade
>    Charlotte. 'Bout time y'all had youse butt whipped again..

A house divided against itself cannot stand.....


(Now if I could just remember that marvelous quote from Jefferson Davis
about rallying 'round Mississippi's star and finishing with something about
the harvest home of blood....)


'Saw    

West By Gawd Virginee was sorta on the fence during The War. Many joined
the North. Many joined the South. A bunch just sat the whole thing out.
At or about this time, we left Virginia but they pretty much left it up
from county to county as to what they were doing about fighting.

In any case, you caint paint W.Va. as pro-Union or pro-Rebel. Like I
said, a bunch voted for none of the above.

TTom

    
    
    	Yabbut wasn't that because y'all were too busy inbreeding?
    
    ;^)
    
    

>    	Yabbut wasn't that because y'all were too busy inbreeding?

Actually, this isn't unrelated. You gotta believe that some of them
hollers never heard about The War until after it was over.

TTom

|>    	Yabbut wasn't that because y'all were too busy inbreeding?
|
|Actually, this isn't unrelated. You gotta believe that some of them
|hollers never heard about The War until after it was over.

Golly, you're right Pa, Ma does ______ better'n Sis.....

    	Saw,
    
    	They showed the front of Villanueve car and talked about
    	how CART or USAC had made them add more nose (or something)
    	to the front end. This move was to give a little more protection
    	to the drivers' feet in a front-end crash.
    
    	I'm sure the last thing JV did before he Tboned Hiro was pull
    	his feet further into the cockpit. And, JV didn't have any
    	injuries, so....
    
    	Scott

>    	They showed the front of Villanueve car and talked about
>    	how CART or USAC had made them add more nose (or something)
>    	to the front end. This move was to give a little more protection
>    	to the drivers' feet in a front-end crash.

That's good.  I haven't kept up with a lot of the CART improvements, so
I'm glad they required them to make some changes....

    
>    	I'm sure the last thing JV did before he Tboned Hiro was pull
>    	his feet further into the cockpit. And, JV didn't have any
>    	injuries, so....
    
I think I'd have pulled my sphincter shut too.  8^) 8^) 8^)

Well, Rusty won the Hanes 500 yesterday in Martinsville and picked up
a cool 98 grand in addition as the winner of the Unocal Bonus Award, for
winning the pole and the race.

Rusty was as far back as 8th at one point, and worked his way back up
to 2nd, behind Ernie Irvan.   Throughout the last 80 laps he battled
with Irvan until a yellow came out.  Rusty's crew got him out of the
lane first, and he held off Irvan for the final 60 laps or so....

This was the same finishing order as last year's race.....

I think Mark Martin finished 3rd.....


'Saw

    	This was one bad weekend for Formula 1 racing.
    
    	Roland Ratzenberger of Austria was killed in practice on Saturday.
    
    	Ayrton Senna, 3-time world driving champion from Brazil, was
    	killed Sunday during the race. Senna's Williams went off the
    	track at Imola at full tilt and hit a concrete wall. There
    	were no tire barriers. It also looked like to took the medical
    	folks way too long to get to Senna and get him out of his car.
    
    	Later in the race, Alboretto hit a couple of pit workers either
    	with the car or with a tire that had come off the right rear.
    
    	The start was also marred by a spectacular crash when one of
    	the cars on the grid stalled. Another car came up from behind
    	and hit its left rear with his right front. Lots of damage and
    	wheels flying into the stands, but no driver injuries.
    
    	It looks like F1 is taking over from the NASCAR boys (of '93).
    
    	Scott

>    	were no tire barriers. It also looked like to took the medical
>    	folks way too long to get to Senna and get him out of his car.

Having a bit of experience in this area (although not with race cars)
I can hazard a guess that considering the speed with which he hit (reported
at 186) extrication, never easy to began with, was probably a bitch in
this case....


'Saw

	In other Motor Sports news, Dale Earnhardt took over the lead on lap
late in the race and won the Talledega 500 yesterday. The win moves the black 
#3 25 points from Ernie Ervam for the season lead in the Winston Cup chase.

 Cadzilla2

And how much does Jimmy Spencer suck?

They're gonna be having a driver's meeting about him like they
did for swervin' Irvan a couple of years ago.

It must've been bad for Mr. Ego, uh, er PotatoHead, to mention something
other than himself (how poorly Spencer drove) in victory lane....


'Saw

> And how much does Jimmy Spencer suck?
    
    If it's anywhere near as much as Mike Greenwell the week after Opening
    Day, or John Casey in the Canadiens' series, I'd say just enough to win
    the next race... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

|> And how much does Jimmy Spencer suck?
|    
|    If it's anywhere near as much as Mike Greenwell the week after Opening
|    Day, or John Casey in the Canadiens' series, I'd say just enough to win
|    the next race... ;-)
    
Spencer's gonna kill somebody out there.


But you are right, there, Glenn.  Those players are so feared of
appearing publicly on the Chainsaw's "How Much Does It Suck" Scale, that
they improve their performance to lower their Torr and get off the scale.

Why, major league clubs ought to be beating a path to my door, offering
me huge sums of money for my talent.  But they aren't.  How much does
that suck?


;^)    

    
    I saw Senna's crash last night on ESPN.  It seemed that after the crash
    the workers were too busy picking up debris to check on Senna.  No one
    wanted to get withing 20 feet of the guy, while it was pretty obvious
    he wasn't able to do much.
    
    brews

A little understeer will really wreck your day.

I'm sure the last thing that went through his mind was the Portuguese
equivalent of "Oh shit."


Actually, ESPN had quite a good report on last night on the rules changes
that could have possibly contributed to the crash -- lessening reliance
on computerized suspension control etc etc....

'Saw


PS  Judging from the footage from Schumacher's car, I almost wonder if
    something on his car didn't break, because it looked like he started
    into the curve and then lost it....

    I wonder if MrT is celebrating today.  As I recall he never had a kind
    word for Mr. Senna.

>
>    I wonder if MrT is celebrating today.  As I recall he never had a kind
>    word for Mr. Senna.

As much as MrT hated Senna, I don't see MrT dancing a jig on his grave.

First and foremost, MrT loved Formula I and it certainly was a black
weekend for them.  He'd be mourning no doubt.....


Okay, so he might have run around outside naked in his bathrobe with
blue testicles, dancing a jig, but he wouldn't have meant it....

I should give him a call and see if I can get a statement....8^)


'Saw

    	Someone wrote in one of the notesfiles that Schumacher said
    	the rear end of Senna's Williams was scraping a lot and then
    	he was in the wall.
    
    	Scott

>    	Someone wrote in one of the notesfiles that Schumacher said
>    	the rear end of Senna's Williams was scraping a lot and then
>    	he was in the wall.
    
Someone speculated on Sportscenter last night, perhaps it was Derek Daly,
that with the cutting back on reliance on computerized suspension
control, it was highly possible that the cars could bottom out more,
and that if you bottomed-out at a critical moment, it could be deadly.

I can't quite fathom what it's like heading into a turn at 186.  The
fastest I've ever been is about 135-140, but I didn't have to worry
about downshifting, and hitting the apex of a turn either...

Probably just about enough time for an oh shit then it was lights out....


It'll be interesting to see what the investigation turns up.....

    	Saw,
    
    	I still can't understand why there were no tire barriers. I mean,
    	everyone was saying that it was the fastest turn on the course.
    
    	So, Senna goes in full tilt and hits a concrete wall. Maybe he
    	would still be alive had there been some tires there.
    
    	Scott

>    
>    	So, Senna goes in full tilt and hits a concrete wall. Maybe he
>    	would still be alive had there been some tires there.
    
I don't know.  I don't follow Grand Prix that much, so I don't know.

I do know that two years ago, J.D. McDuffy on the Winston Cup circuit
went into a tire barrier at Watkins Glen.  Jimmy Means was involved
in the same crash.

McDuffy was killed specifically because of the tires, which came in 
through the window and decapitated him. 

I don't whether tires would have helped or hindered Senna.   


I do remember seeing that motorcycle racing is trying out this new kind
of barrier that's basically a big vinyl tube, square in shape, filled with
air and with baffles in it.  It's supposedly quite good and when used in
conjuction with a tire barrier behind it is really safe....


It'll be interesteing to see if lack of a tire barrier is brought up
in the investigation....


'Saw

    Does T still live in Minnesota?

>    Does T still live in Minnesota?

Last I knew he did....

    	Yeah, I was wondering if someone was going to call him and
    	see what he was thinking, especially after this weekend.
    
    	Scott

    
    Yabbut considering we called him at the listing DA LIST has for him -
    and it was in minny soda, and we got through to him, ah's say "yup",
    he's still dere.
    
    Of course, if ya don't have a copy of DA LIST......
    
    I remain,
    the original keeper of DA LIST
    Kev
    

Not motor sports, but they had a fantastic crash on Ct 85 down in
Chesterfield (near the shore) last night....

Seems this dump truck rear-ended a fully loaded gasoline tanker.  You
can imagine the result.

Miraculously, both drivers were not instantly killed, although both
were badly burned...  They were "Lifestar"-ed out of there to the
hospital.

Evidence of just how bad it was was that I could see the smoke on my
way home from work, and I'm a good 20-25 miles away.....


'Saw

    	So 'Saw, think we'll we seeing this crash on "America's
    Sensationalist Home Videos" soon?
    
    				  /Don

>
>    	So 'Saw, think we'll we seeing this crash on "America's
>    Sensationalist Home Videos" soon?
>    

I doubt it.  They didn't have any video of the accident happening, but 
they had a lot on the news last night of the after math.

I guess I was just thinking of Senna, saying "Oh shit!" to himself in
Portuguese, and then this dump truck driver saying "Oh Shit!" to
himself as his head took out the "o" in Mobil and he got to smell his
own hair on fire.....


'Saw

    
    
    	Yabbut just a thoughtful nit on Arton (RIP).  Since it was
    estimated that he hit da wall at over 160mph (or was it 180+?)
    he was travelling somewhere around 300 feet per second (da lenght of
    a footaball field in 1 second).
    
    	I think that at most, he had time for "Oh" before he hit, if that.
    
    hth
    
    I remain,
    ending today's physics class for now
    Prof. Kev
    

>    he was travelling somewhere around 300 feet per second (da lenght of
>    a footaball field in 1 second).
>    
>    	I think that at most, he had time for "Oh" before he hit, if that.
>    


Jackie Stewart wrote one time that when everything is in order in a
Formula I race (or any race for that matter), and you get into the
rhythm of it, it's almost as if things happen in slow motion.  Your
mind somehow speeds up to process the stuff that's coming at it.

You can kind of imagine what this is like if you do 70 on the highway a
and then get off on a side street where the limit is 25.  You feel like
you're crawling.

I know that after driving for a bunch of weeks in France and then
coming home I'd be doing 85-90 on the highway, because that's waht
I was used to, and I'd constantly have to check my speed to slow
it down to around 70.....

At any rate, when you lose it, you don't necessarily say it, but your
mind goes oh shit....  It takes much less time to think it -- to get
the gestalt of oh shit than it does to say it.

Last I heard Ayrton hit the wall at 186mph....    

'SAw

    
    
    	Yabbut anybody know when the Monaco Grand Prix is?
    
    

>    
>    	Yabbut anybody know when the Monaco Grand Prix is?
>    


This weekend, I think.

There's another Formula I racer in a coma.  Wendlinger or something like
that.  Hit a barrier in practice at Monaco.

btw, they determined that Senna was hit in the haid with a tire from
his car.  Another 10cm in either direction and Senna walks away annoyed....


'Saw    

>    
>    	Yabbut anybody know when the Monaco Grand Prix is?
>    
	
	Thinkin' a draggin' that bucket o' bolts of yours out, Kev?



	billl

    Sunday morning.  I know they said the Sports Reporters would be
    preempted by in at 11 on ESPN...
    

    	Another major accident yesterday. Karl Wendlinger hit the
    	barriers just after the tunnel. He's in very serious condition
    	with head injuries. Over in RACING, someone is reporting that
    	a person is the UK_CARS notes file has heard that Wendlinger
    	is dead. No confirmation of this yet.
    
    	Prince Ranier says the race will be cancelled if Wendlinger dies.
    
    	Scott

>    
>    	Prince Ranier says the race will be cancelled if Wendlinger dies.
>    

He's got lots of practice wif people dying in car wrecks.....  I wonder
if his daughter was driving Wendlinger....8^)

>                              -< Cold 'Saw Cold! >-

Yeah, it's been a while, and I wanted to see if I could still get it done....


'Saw

    

    
>>He's got lots of practice wif people dying in car wrecks.....  I wonder
>>if his daughter was driving Wendlinger....8^)
    
    Wail, when his wifee died, the problem was that she was a graduate of
    the Teddy Kennedy school of driving.
    
    JaKe

    
    
    	Yabbut doncha know that Al Unser officially announced his
    retirement from auto racing after failing to qualify for thisted year's
    Indy 500?
    
    I remain,
    parting with another "occasional....."
    Kev
    

As a non-follower of racing - 

why is Al Jr. a "little turd"?

I know my Dad, who loves the sport, is a big Al Sr. and Bobby Unser fan.

=Bob=

>why is Al Jr. a "little turd"?


I dunno.  Just never liked him.  Probably because all the announcers
suck up to him, like he's god....

Personally, I don't think he could carry AJ Foyt's jock, and he certainly
isn't a good carry-over driver like Foyt was.  

I think Nigel blows him away too.


Li'l Al won because a) he's on a good team (ie Penske is superb), and b)
he had the Mercedes engine, and c) Emo did a Dean Smif with 16 laps to
go.....

    I never liked Al Sr. too much either (Bobby was okay, though).  Both 
    Als are/were great drivers, but in my limited following of Indy racing
    I guess I've viewed them both as arrogant SOBs (I guess to some extent
    you have to be).  Then again, I felt that way about Foyt, too, who'd
    suffer a mechanical failure and then come into the pits and excoriate
    his crew.  Give me a class act like Mario Andretti anyday, although
    there are those who consider him to be a "loser", and after yet
    another heartbreak Sunday in his final Indy that ain't going to
    change...

    glenn
    

>    there are those who consider him to be a "loser", and after yet
>    another heartbreak Sunday in his final Indy that ain't going to
>    change...

Mario Andretti is indeed a class act and World Driving Champion, and
IMO one of the greatest drivers ever....

'Saw    

    Unser Jr. comes off to me as a spoiled brat who got everything handed
    to him.  Not sure why, but he does.

    re-1
    
      He is!
    
      Bobby Unser was always my favorite indy car driver.  Saw him tear it
    up on Pikes Peak 2x also.  Of  course he blew away the field.  Anyone
    who can leave rubber on dirt and it stays there after 25 other cars
    race over it impresses me!
    
      Tim

Rusty Wallace picked up his second win in a row yesterday out at Pocono
in the UAW-GM 500.  It was his fourth this season....

It was a pretty interesting race, and it seems that NASCAR has some new
rules that apparently no one can figure out concerning caution flags in 
the last five laps.

Mark Martin cut a tire with 7 or 8 laps to go, it took the officials the
better part of a lap to go to yellow, and then Rusty led the parade down
Pit Lane.  Dale "The Inseminator" Earnhardt took right side rubber only,
Rusty and the rest took on all four.

Then, for some reason no one can yet figure out, they ran them down four
laps under yellow, so that the green flag was given with the white flag.
On the TV broadcast, you could hear Rusty's crew chief Buddy Parrot saying
"They can't get those f_____s lined up right?"   Evidently Jeff Gordon
was not in the right spot, but it took them four laps to decide to
leave him where he was....

My brother was at the race, and the radio traffic back and forth was
a bit stronger.  Rusty is normally REALLY laid back on the radio, but his
language got as colorful as Dave Marcis's usually is as he tried to find
out what was going on.

Rusty got by Earnhardt on the front straight -- the left side rubber
had to have helped -- and won the race.

The kicker was that the folks around my brother in the stands were keeping
laps times and stuff, and my brother tends to keep track of laps too.
All of those folks came up with 199 when the checkered flag was dropped,
instead of the 200. 

Even Rusty was a bit confused, as he took an extra lap besides the normal
victory lap.   Buddy told him on the radio that he could stop now the
race was over, but everyone in the stands figured it was a good idea.


I hope the race I see in July isn't as f____d up....(wouldn't mind seeing
the same guy win though)

'Saw

                                                             
    It almost looked as if Earnhardt conceded the race to Wallace when they
    restarted for the final lap, in effect saying, hey, this isn't fair,
    your car whupped mine today, I'm not going to try and bang you to steal 
    this one.  My brother-in-law speculated that Earnhardt's primary
    motivation for the quick pit was to pick up some cheap points for being
    in the lead for a lap.  Obviously, they've got to get those rules
    straightened out, let the good ol' boys race and add and subtract the
    penalty points later, back in the boardrooms...
    
    No, I'm not following this stuff now, but the B-I-L (who's the Dale
    worshipper) and I got back from being drowned like Pflugerville river 
    rats at Fenway, and caught the final few laps...
    
    glenn
      

>    No, I'm not following this stuff now, but the B-I-L (who's the Dale
>    worshipper) and I got back from being drowned like Pflugerville river 
>    rats at Fenway, and caught the final few laps...
    
Glenn's a closet Rusty fan....8^)

It's possible Dale could have conceeded.  The last thing he'd need after
ramming Rusty into orbit at Darlington last year was to do it again.

On the other hand, Rusty's car was dialed in yesterday....


'Saw
      

Rusty picked up another win yesterday, this time on the Super Speedway 
out in Michigan.

Since he's moved to Ford his cars have been top notch and he had it dialed
in well again yesterday.

It was almost disastrous though, with 12 laps to go, the car, out of fuel,
stalled on pit lane.  Buddy Parrot, the crew chief, got the ether into
its throat to get it going, but got knocked down when Rusty took off.

Rusty came out dead last on the lead lap with about 10 to go when they
went green.

He made up all the positions, and with 2 to go he passed Dale
"The Inseminator" Earnhardt for the lead, and stretched it out
to take the checkered flag.

It was his 3rd win in a row, and his 5th of the season.  He's in 3rd in 
the standings, behind Ernie Irvan (who finished way down with a blown
cynlinder) and Earnhardt....

In two weeks, they're in Daytona, and in three they're in Loudon, which
I have tickets for.....


'Saw

            <<< TIMMII::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< Cars UK >-
================================================================================
Note 2271.19                    Land speed record                       19 of 32
YUPPY::RICHARDSON                                    85 lines  14-JUN-1994 13:01
                          -< THRUST SSC TEAM MEMBER >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Although not a regular NOTES user, this is one that I can't resist. The
    reason is that apart from being a Digital employee, I'm also part of
    Richard Noble's newly announced Thrust SSC Team.
    
    I hope the following answers some of the questions raised so far. If
    not, then there is an official team supporters club that gives you an
    opportunity to find out more by meeting team members, visiting the
    place where the car is being built and getting regular project
    bulletins and quarterly newsletters. Write to: Mach 1 Club, PO Box 77,
    Twickenham, Middx, TW12 2XN.
    
    The car was conceived by Ron Ayers, ex head of missile research at
    British Aerospace, along with Richard Noble himself and Glynne Bowsher,
    a team member from Thrust 2 days who works for Lucas Aerospace.
    Basically, Ron did everything outside, while Glynne did everything
    inside. The car is a combination of tubular steel spaceframe and carbon
    composites, 55 feet long and weighs a touch over 7 tons. The
    computer model predicts performance of 0 - 850+ - 0 in just over 70
    seconds, taking most of the 13 miles of available track at Black Rock,
    Nevada. Should be quite a tap up the kidneys!!
       
    Power to travel at supersonic speeds is not a problem, keeping it safe
    and stable is. Ron's initial work was developed using computational
    fluid dynamics, the results suggesting that the design would work and
    would not fly. Ideally, this needed checking in a supersonic rolling
    road wind tunnel - none exist. Even F1 tunnels only work at about
    100mph, the results being extrapolated for 200+mph. Doing this for
    speeds up to 1,000mph would be daft.
    
    The answer was the government's missile proving test track at Pendine. A
    model of the car was mounted on a rocket sled with wheels attached to
    the outside of the tracks so that the space between could be filled in
    to simulate a desert surface. Sensors all over the car and cameras
    every 100metres running at 100,000 frames per second recorded what went
    on. It went from zero to Mach 1.2 in 0.8 of a sec!! The whole thing was
    repeated six times to verify the results which were then compared with
    the CFD output. As a result, the team now knows exactly what happens
    under a car in excess of Mach 1. Even McLaren haven't done that.
    
    The problem is not the expected shock wave per se, but the strange
    things that happen when air flow over and under different parts of the
    car moves from sub-sonic to transonic to supersonic at different rates
    and begins to interfere with each other. The active suspension system
    mentioned is designed to keep the car absolutely level - Ron says that
    pitch up by one quarter of one degree would lead to a back flip - not
    recommended!
    
    The overall layout is designed to be as stable as possible. One big
    engine would be ideal in order to reduce cross sectional area but that
    means the driver sitting to one side or out in front. By choosing two
    engines, there is sufficient thrust to go supersonic and overcome the
    necessary drag needed to make the thing stable. It also means the
    driver sits in the safest place in the car surrounded by a very strong
    structure.
    
    The engines are placed forward to get the centre of gravity up front,
    while the long fuselage has a highly swept tailplane assemply at the
    rear to induce aerodynamic drag. It's the same principle as a dart - CG
    up front, drag at rear. The wheels are mounted on the outside of each
    engine pod to give the widest possible track and have to be fixed in
    order to keep cross sectional area to the minimum.
    
    Contrary to popular belief, rear wheel steering is far more precise
    than front wheel steering, exactly what you need for an LSR car that
    doesn't need to go around corners. It just happens that those needing
    this precision (forklifts, harvesters etc) are also slow moving, hence
    the myth that front-wheel steering is needed. By the way, the rules
    state that two wheels must be steerable, although aerodynamic aids can
    also be used.
    
    Finally, the engines. They are Rolls-Royce Speys, but not even the
    hotted up versions used in the Phantom. RR developed a super tough
    version called the 205 but only ever built 12 of them. The team has
    two, plus two cooking 203s for testing. Combined thrust is over
    50,000lbs, or the equivalent of 100,000hp. The build program will be
    complete by this time next year, with first runs at Black Rock in
    September.
    
    Watch out for a big (!) display at the Motor Show later this year.
    
    
    
    Robin Richardson
    
                                     

            <<< TIMMII::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< Cars UK >-
================================================================================
Note 2271.31                    Land speed record                       31 of 32
YUPPY::RICHARDSON                                    63 lines  16-JUN-1994 21:32
                            -< MORE ON THRUST SSC >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Re the question, were Digital approached to help the project - the
    answer is yes. We needed a small number of PCs, printers and the
    necessary software to take CAD data generated on an IBM mainframe and
    give it to the three or four sub-contractors handling the build
    programme. Since the kit was needed only on loan for the duration of
    the project and knowing the media interest that this would generate, I
    obviously wanted to see Digital involved, although there was never any
    question of asking for sponsorship. Sadly, the answer was no, which I
    guess is understandable given the situation at the moment.
    
    Not suprisingly, there were a number of other vendors interested enough
    to come up with the hardware and software free of charge in return for
    using project involvement in their marketing campaigns at some point in
    the future.
    
    To return to the car itself and another question asked, it will be
    complete this time next year and shipped to the USA to run in Sept-Oct
    at Black Rock. We went out last for a ten year anniversary bash to
    celebrate Thrust 2's continuing tenure of the record and to check out
    desert conditions again. They're even better than in 1984. We also met
    up with Craig Breedlove and his team, who have held the record five
    times in the past and are unveiling their own challenger in Detroit in
    early July. They hope to run later this year.
    
    Also in the hunt are two other US teams, Art Arfons with a super small
    and lightweight jet car, and the Kikes/Shockley/Swenson J-79 powered
    jet car, which is not small. While Breedlove is also targetting Mach 1,
    the other two would be content just to get Richard's record. 
    
    Over (under?) in Australia, Rosco McGlashan is running a Thrust2
    lookalike car with less power but smaller cross-sectional area, and on
    a much harder surface - Lake Gairdner. Rain stopped play when he had
    worked up to about 500mph but again he will be lucky to exceed 633.468
    - the current record. Incidentally, he's being helped out by John
    Ackroyd who designed Thrust 2 and the various capsules used by Branson
    and Lindstrom in the trans Atlantic and Pacific Balloons. John took me
    to Stead Field in Reno last year for a squint at his lastest baby, a
    three man capsule with twin balloons - one helium, one hot air, -
    designed to travel non-stop around the world. Three attempts, three
    failures, but the work goes on until they get it right.
    
    On the question of steering via aerodynamic aids, this has been tried
    in the past without success, In '61 Breedlove ran a fixed wheel jet car
    steered by a rudder mounted under the nose. It went everyway except
    straight until he introduced only 1 degree of steering to the front
    wheel. It then went all the way to 526. At the same time, Nathan Ostich
    ran another jet car with steering but found that any movement in excess
    of 1 degree was hopeless because the wheels just slid around on the
    hard salt of Bonneville. He added fins and a rudder before getting it under
    control. Interestingly, McGlashan is having the same problems with his
    car in Oz. Thrust SSC will use wheels designed to plane across the
    desert surface (much like an unlimited hydroplane on water) and will
    have 6 degrees of steering movement.
    
    Some alternatives suggested by others for the future include use of a
    vectored nozzle jet engine being developed by Pratt & Whitney connected
    to a fly by wire steering system, or if you really want to cheat, a
    laser guidance system as used on smart bombs. 
    
    
    Robin Richardson
    
    Understandably,

	Calling the rider in this a 'driver' is about like calling the
	Mercury program astronauts 'pilots'.

	
	billl

	Seeing how Gordon Cooper had to manually land his Mercury capsule
using thrusters I would still have to call him a pilot.

>>	Seeing how Gordon Cooper had to manually land his Mercury capsule
>>using thrusters I would still have to call him a pilot.

	I get your point, but more correctly, Gordo had to use manual 
	thrusters to manuveur his Mercury capsule for the correct 
	re-entry attitude, not to land it.  Gravity kinda took care of 
	that part for him.

	What I was trying to point out was that for the most part the
	driver on this 'land rocket' and the Mercury astronauts were
	merely along as observers.  That's not to say they all have no 
	control at all. It's just that when you consider the accepted 
	definition of 'drivers' and 'pilots' as someone who is in 
	complete control of his vessel, they hardly fit the bill.


	billl

    
    
    	Yabbut billl, what about the "pilot" of the Exxon Valdez????
    
    complete control????
    
    <isfh>
    
    I remain,
    just being difficult......
    Kev
    

    This note is for any kind of junk related to NASCAR racing.

    Am not a huge NASCAR fan but can honestly say that my interest is
    increasing.  
    
    The other day I heard that McDonalds is pulling their sponsorship
    from Jimmy Spencer and will be sponsoring another driver.  Spencer
    (who drives for Junior Johnson) is looking for a new sponsor.
    
    A few thoughts occurred to me 
    	Is this something that Digital would be interested in?  
    	How much would this type of advertising benefit Digital?
    	How much does it cost to sponser a racing team?
    
    Spencer won at Daytona and Talledega this year.  His nickname is
    Mr. Excitement...although he hasn't won anything until this year
    (he credits his recent alliance with Junior Johnson for his newfound
    success).
    
    If Digital is looking for a way to establish a "new" image, this
    could be one way to do it.  NASCAR racing is a very popular and 
    growing sport among the red, white, and blue (rednecks, white collars, 
    blue collars).  ESPN, TNT, and TBS (I think) cover a lot of the races.
    It would be a good way to get our name in front of a totally different
    cross-section of the population (than our traditional customer base),
    and could help establish mindshare with "joe" consumer.
    
    Many other consumer product companies sponsor NASCAR teams...but
    no computer companies (that I can think of).  What a great way
    to differentiate ourselves from the rest.
    
    A burgandy car with the Digital logo....axp stickers, etc.
    
    I like the idea, mostly because it's radically different than
    anything Digital has done in the past.  
    
    Any other thoughts?
    
    Pat

I like the color concept of the car. Maybe they could also have a backup 
car in the traditional blue. The major problem is the damn Europeans that 
don't care about redneck sports. My wife would think it is a waste of money. 
I personally like the idea it would bring better name recognition to Digital 
and maybe when we start selling more equipment to Joe Customer at Target, 
Spaggs or Wal-mart because they could relate better. 

I was at Blockbuster the other day explaining the POS terminal to a friend that 
this is one of Digitals larger accounts and that this is a LA70 printer and a 
VT420 but Joe Customer wouldn't know. 


How about a Blockbuster/Toys R Us/ Digital sponsered car ??

Jeff  

    did we network Blockbuster yet?  I haven't seen any DEC gear in
    Blockbusters around here.

    THey have our printers and terminals in the stores here...
    

I don't know if they are linked but I do know that I.B.M. is putting in a 
multi-media set up where you can preview a new release for a minute or so 
on a PC right in the shop. This is a huge threat to the account even if we 
don't recognize it. 

Jeff

    
    
    	Yabbut my pal Kev told me that in each Blockbuster store, the local
    stuff is controlled by IBM's AS400 and and the corportate stuff is VAX.
    He didn't know what the policy was for terminals and printers, though.
    
    he hth....
    
    he remains,
    a ghost from da past?
    

    Just read this morning that either Budweiser or Macdonalds pays
    $5,000,000 to sponsor a NASCAR auto.  Just entering this because I
    never knew how much it cost to sponsor one of those cars.
    
    UMDan
    

>
>    Just read this morning that either Budweiser or Macdonalds pays
>    $5,000,000 to sponsor a NASCAR auto.  Just entering this because I
>    never knew how much it cost to sponsor one of those cars.
>    

The costs are unbelievable.

Each team builds several cars for the season.   The car you see at
Daytona or Michigan most definitely is not the same car you see at Martinsville
or Bristol.   At the very least, they'll have a superspeedway car, a short
track car, and a road course car.   Rusty Wallace's team has 5 cars I believe.

Engines are built, certain parts of the cars are unique to each race and
discarded afterwards....


Last year was a bad year because NASCAR introduced some rule changes mid-season
that pissed off all the independents.   Dave Marcis, who's been running
his own show for years, with or without sponsorhip, said that the rules changes
cost him the ability to run in one race because he didn't have the
wherewithall to get the changes made in time.  Dave does have sponsorship
this season.

A lot of sponsors (Tide, Kelloggs, Country Time) want the name recognition
that the large NASCAR audience will give them.   The "automotive"
sponsors (the oil cars, the battery cars etc) want to be able to say that
they stand up to NASCAR racing...   The beer cars and tobacco cars, well,
who better to sponsor a form of racing that started out as whiskey driving
down the back-roads of the south.....


'Saw

    How's Ernie Irvan doing?  

	He is listed a critical but stable! MRI did not reveal any brain
damage.

I've heard form some locals that he awake and repsonding, indicating he
knows who's in the room and what they're saying.

His team manager was on the news with this information. He made clear
that Irvan's still in critical condition but stable and improving daily.

TTom

My guess is that he will recover, but that it will take him a while.
Ernie's a tough bastard and will take this in stride.

Michigan is probably the fastest track that they run on (perhaps Daytona
is faster, but I'd bet Michigan), and to smack into the wall out there
is tough.


'Saw

From what I've heard, the accident was a bit on the freak side of things.

What happened was the he ran almost straight into the wall and his car
immediatly stopped. His body tried to go forward but was restrained. The
injuries occured when the organs kept on going, hence the collapes lungs
and brain injuries.

TTom

>From what I've heard, the accident was a bit on the freak side of things.
>
>What happened was the he ran almost straight into the wall and his car
>immediatly stopped. His body tried to go forward but was restrained. The
>injuries occured when the organs kept on going, hence the collapes lungs
>and brain injuries.

He'd cut a tire, right front.  The forces at work will tend to move the
rubber and stuff that'll eventually come off, down INTO the suspension
instead of away.  That meant the car got a push situation really quickly
hence the straight on into the wall.

There's a couple of schools of thought on the restriant systems.  One 
school believes in an additional strap between the two shoulder restraints
to keep the  body from flying forward out of the restraints and possibly
impacting the well.

The other school says that by putting that additional strap on, it
actually increases the damage done in forward impacts because the
rib cage does not have a chance to expand as it would when the shoulder
restraints "separate", and thus the compactness of the rib cage causes
more injury.

The skull fracture more than likely came from the head impacting
the steering wheel or something like that.  Even with the full-face
helmet he still sustained a fractured skull.....

'Saw

re: skull fracture

Saw,

It's my understanding that they have restraints on the head so it won't
bang into the the steering wheel. There's a couple of clips that allow
you the side-to-side movement needed for seeing what's happening, but
basically, it's real hard to move the head forward. You caint.

If'n he had hit the steering wheel, the impact woulda been absorbed to
some extent by both his helmet and his skull. This woulda releived some
of the impact to the brain itself. As it was, his brain kept moving after
his head had quit.

TTom

Ernie Irvin update:

Irvan is in fair condition after some minor surgeries to drain fluid and
close the tracheotomy opening.

Supposedly, he's able to walk around and it's being reported that he's
even called a couple of other racers like Dale Earnheart.

TTom

    Heard Dick Trickle finished in the top 10?  True?
    

Dick finished a whopping 8th.

Meanwhile, Dale Earnhardt won his 7th points championship as he won at
the Rock yesterday. This ties him with Richard Petty.

Rusty went out about 2/3 of the way through.  Don't know why.

This is the second year in a row he's won more races than anyone else
(I think so far -- Dale might be tied) but he hasn't won the championship.

Rumor is that Buddy Parrot, his crew chief, is going to buy the Steve
Grissom team and be a car owner.....

'Saw

Wallace's engine blowed up real good and he was a big Did Not Finish.

The NASCAR point system heavily favors finishing a race over winning a
race. In Rusty's case, he DNF too many times to offset the 7 wins he had.

Winning the most races and not winning the Championship is fairly common.
Bill Elliot won more than 10 races (13, I think, maybe 11) one year and
didn't win the points race.

TTom

Yeah, the point system does heavily favor finishing.

Sometimes that is good and sometimes that is bad.  Over the last two seasons,
Rusty has won more than anyone else....

Next year will be interesting, especially if Buddy leaves...


TTom, how far is Concord from Charlotte?


'Saw

> The NASCAR point system heavily favors finishing a race over winning a
> race. In Rusty's case, he DNF too many times to offset the 7 wins he had.

    I read that Wallace has won 8 races, Earnhardt now 4.  I'm sorry, I
    asked what the logic was with this last year when Wallace won an
    amazing 10 races and still didn't take the championship, but I just
    can't take such a competition seriously when winning is so (relatively)
    de-valued.  Not that I'm torn up over it or anything... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

>       -< Whatever happened to good ol' boys trying anything to _win_? >-

Now it's good ol' boys trying anything to keep on running.

You see a lot of cars going into the garage and then barely making it
back on the track just so's they were still "running" at the end.

TTom

Darrell Waltrip was quoted as saying that the driver who wins the most
races over the course of the season should get like 100 points bonus.  I guess
that might help.

If you look at last year, you could make the point that one of Rusty's
DNFs was due to Dale wanging him in the ass at Taladega.  The only 
bonus Rusty got out of that was a few frequent flier miles.....

It is conceivable, though I don't know if it ever happened, that the
Winston Cup Champion could win it and have never won a race the entire
season.

'Saw

>It is conceivable, though I don't know if it ever happened, that the
>Winston Cup Champion could win it and have never won a race the entire
>season.

It's really not that hard, considering the way they figger this. The
winner gets a grand total of 5 more points than the second place
finisher.

TTom

    
    >> <<< Note 78.397 by HANNAH::ASHE "All I wanna do, is chew some gum" >>>

    >>Heard Dick Trickle finished in the top 10?  True?
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    A couple of shots of penicillin cures this with ease, so I've heard.
    
    JaKe
    

    The way these things are multiplying today, penicillin has become very
    limited in what it can cure.

    yabbut penicillin is still the first choice.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

re: Dick Trickle.

The one who really must atone for this is Ma or Pa or whoever named him
Dick. I mean the sports fans, at least those with a sense of humor, have
gotta luv the name but someone coulda at least made sure he was called
Richard.

TTom

    Or Rich... Rick...
    

    
    You can call me poor Richard, just don't call broke Dick!!

Actually, the far funnier thing about ol' Dick is that he's the only
driver on the circuit who has a cigarette lighter in his car.

When they get a caution, and they slow down to a paltry 70mph, ol' Dick
pulls out a Winston and lights up.

Consequently, whenever ol' Dick gets into someone else, all the fans
in the stands start laughin' and sayin' that ol' Dick musta been lightin'
up again......

Dick Trickle update:

Dick has signed on to drive Bud Moore's Ford nexted year.

For those not up on NASCAR history, Moore's cars have won many Winston
Cup races with drivers that included Bobby Allison and Dale Earnhardt.

Trickle, 53 and as yet without a cup race win, takes over from Lake
Speed. You gotta love the names.

TTom

>    Dick has signed on to drive Bud Moore's Ford nexted year.
    
    So, Moore Bud makes Dick Trickle?

    Nah, I would think it makes Dick Whizz.
    
    JaKe
    

NASCAR is going to start a circuit for pick-me-up-trucks. It'll
supposedly be like they do for cars. They'll have shells for bodies with 
souped up engines with all them rules on what you can do and what you
can't do.

TTom

Not much in here lately but what the hail...

This weeked could be monumental for the man in black. Dale Earnhardt
turns 43 tomorrow and on Sunday if'n he wins at least 7 grand, he'll pass
$25 mil in earnings.

And the other todo is that they've allowed Ford and Pontiac to make some
"minor" modifications to help them compete with the Monte Carlos that
have won 7 outta 8 races.

Somewhat belatedly, here's the NASCAR schedule.

NASCAR schedule:

Date		Race			TV
----		----			--
Feb. 19		Daytona Beach, FL	CBS
Feb. 26		Rockingham, NC		TNN
Mar.  5		Richmond, VA		TBS
Mar. 12		Atlanta, GA		ABC
Mar. 26		Darlington, SC		ESPN
Apr.  2		Bristol, TN		ESPN
Apr.  9		North Wilkesboro, NC	ESPN
Apr. 23		Martinsville, VA	ESPN
Apr. 30		Talladega, AL		ESPN
May   7		Sonoma, CA		ESPN
May  28		Charlotte, NC		TBS
June  4		Dover, DE		TNN
June 11		Pocono, PA		TBS
June 18		Brooklyn, MI		CBS
July  1		Daytona Beach, FL	ESPN
July  9		Loudon, NH		TNN
July 16		Pocono, PA		TNN
July 23		Talladega, AL		CBS
Aug.  5		Indianapolis, IN	ABC
Aug. 13		Watkins Glen, NY	ESPN
Aug. 20		Brooklyn, MI		ESPN
Aug. 26		Bristol, TN		ESPN
Sep.  3		Darlington, SC		ESPN
Sep.  9		Richmond, VA		TBS
Sep. 17		Dover, DE		TNN
Sep. 24		Martinsville, VA	ESPN
Oct.  1		North Wilkesboro, NC	ESPN
Oct.  8		Charlotte, NC		TBS
Oct. 22		Rockingham, NC		TNN
Oct. 29		Phoenix, AZ		TNN
Nov. 12		Atlanta, GA		ESPN

  Anyone got any word on Formula I? Have they started yet, who looks good,
what are the contending cars, etc?

  George

Sorry,

All we got here is that there Stock Car stuff. 

Locally, you'd have to rate sports in the following order:

1. NASCAR, especially Dale
2. Pro Wrestling, but this is declining since Ric Flair moved to Atlanta
3. No Carolina Tar Heels - any sport as long as it's basketball
4. Hornets - although most of the fans have gone home for the season
5. Panthers - the jury is out

Nothing else is even on the charts.

TTom

I keep a close eye on NASCAR, but I do try to check out what's happening
in Formula I.

My brother -- the NASCAR, Formula I, Indy Car (in THAT order) nut is 
on vacation.  (Where else?  Down in NC and Tennesee).  When he comes
back -- probably this Thursday -- I'll see if I can't get a report on 
who's where in FI.


'Saw

Found, buried deep in the USA Today:

Formula one is returning this week to Imola, Italy, the site of 
Ayrton Senna's fatal car crash lasted year.

It's the San Marino Grand Prix and they've eliminated the curve in which
Senna wrecked.

Saw, tell the brother of yours he should be in Talladega thised weekend. 

TTom

>Saw, tell the brother of yours he should be in Talladega thised weekend. 

Nah, they had to go to the Opry -- yeehah....8^)


Jeremy Dale was seriously injured at Road Atlanta yesterday.  I haven't
been able to find out about his condition, but he's always been a favorite.

A guy I used to work with here (years ago) raced Formula Fords, and Jeremy
Dale had been his instructor at racing school.  I saw Dale race a couple
of times in the Saab series here in CT.....

If anyone has a report on his condition, please let me know.....


'Saw

    Saw,
    
    Not sure if it was Dale or the other driver (Italian?), but one had to
    be cut out of his car, with both legs broken.  Both drivers are in
    critical condition.  If I hear anything at lunch on the FAN I'll post
    it.
    
    UMDan

>    
>    Not sure if it was Dale or the other driver (Italian?), but one had to
>    be cut out of his car, with both legs broken.  Both drivers are in
>    critical condition.  If I hear anything at lunch on the FAN I'll post
>    it.
>    
>    UMDan

Thanks -- keep me posted.  I can't get the FAN in here....

    
    I don't know the names, but the "low-lights" I saw included the
    accident from the in-car camera of the second car.  Picture this, you
    come over a small knoll traveling very fast when you see a car doing
    about 30 at the time directly in front of you.  The two cars formed a
    T.  One car was "cut in half" by the force of the accident and you can
    see the driver of the faster car violently thrust forward and back.
    
    It is incredible that the two drivers are still alive in my opinion.
    
    Marc
    
    

They call that a T-bone in NASCAR racing.


Racing cars, on the whole, have become more safe as technology has improved.

I'm not as familiar with safety improvements in other types of racing as
I am with those in NASCAR, but it's probably a testament to the safety
improvements that these two guys are still hangin' in there....


'Saw

  Do racing cars use air bags?

  George

>
>  Do racing cars use air bags?
>

No.  No need really.  The five point suspension harness prevents the
driver from being thrown forward. 


From what I've heard/read/etc, the major thing in any crash is to dissipate
energy and protect the driver.

In NASCAR (which I know most about) the driver is surrounded by a roll-cage.
Then, he's got his harness, which I mentioned.  There's also usually some
sort of mechanism (I think it varies from team to team) which prevents the
drivers head for flailing about in an accident.  It can be as simple as
retention straps attached to the helmet.

For the super-speedway events, there's also an extension to the seat which
"contains" the drivers legs.  Those aren't used in short track events.

When the car hits something, or rolls, parts fly off.  That's really 
dissipating a lot of the energy in the crash....


I'm no mechanical engineer, but I've followed some of the safety improvements
that have been made to Rusty Wallace's car after the crashes at Daytona
and Talledega last year.  They use a lot of computer modeling and stuff.


'Saw

No they don't.

What NASCAR does is to enclose the driver in a steel cage and strap him
to it. The idea is to let the metal take the big jolt.

One thing NASCAR does is to continuously try to improve the safety for
its drivers. They add all sorts of things to the standard car like
a_airodynamic drag flap that pops up when the car starts going backwards.

Meanwhile, speaking of going backwards, Mark Martin won the Talledega 500
with a lot of help from Morgan Shepherd who pushed Dale Earnhardt into a
spin on the lasted lap. 

Jeff Gordon took over the points lead. He's tied with Dale but at this
point, has more wins. He won a $100 grand yesterday.

TTom

    
    	Race cars in general don't use air bags because they don't work.
    Once you get over 150 MPH (?) the standard air bag technology doesn't
    work anymore. The air bag doesn't release and blow up fast enough to
    protect the driver. It takes an air bag X amount of a second to deploy.
    One you go over a certain speed, you hit the steering wheel before
    the air bag deploys.
    	I was watching the Formula 1 race from Italy on ESPN. During the
    show they brought this up. They are working on something new in air
    bag technology. That will allow the air bag to deploy quick enough
    even in a Formula 1 car.
    
    Ron

I never thought of that.  That's pretty intense....

    I usually don't watch much of the NASCAR stuff but I was working
    on the PC Sunday and had the Talledega 500 on and to see 41 cars 
    run for over 40 laps without a wreck was pretty darn exciting to 
    watch there was a couplef real close calls but the whole pack had 
    make a pit stop before there was a "yella" flag. 
    
    It was real sweet to see Dirty Dale get it in the ass end on the last 
    lap as well. 
    
    Jeff

One of the things that amazes me on the super speedways is just how well
you can see the draft.

Let one car drop down to the inside line alone, and he'll lose ten, twelve
places......


'Saw

    
    what's with the handicapping all of sudden? why are the chevys
    being penalizied?
    
    mike

    IMSA Driver update - 
    
    Jeremy Dale - Critical but stable condition after surgery to repair
    what were described as "complex orthopedic injuries" to his lower legs
    and feet at the Georgia Baptist Medical Center.  A seperate team of
    surgeons worked on each limb.
    
    Fabrizio Barbazza - Unconscious in stable but critical condition,
    suffering from a swelling of the brain, a severely broken arm, a
    punctured lung and a wound in his leg.  Race team Owner Antonio Ferrari
    said Barbazza would remain unconscious under sedative for at least 72
    hours after the accident.
    
    
    UMDan

    
    	The Chevy Monte Carlo is getting penalized because it is better
    car. Chevy's have just been dominating the NASCAR season so far. As
    the season goes on NASCAR changes the rules to even out the cars. The
    Ford's and Pontiac's just don't run as fast as the Chevy's. So they
    put restrictions on the Chevy's to even out the field.
    	They don't want a better car winning the events. They want driving,
    car setup, pit crews, and luck to determine the winner. Not who has
    a better car from the manufacturer. The manufacturers limit the amount
    of cars available and who they will sell them to. So a new team to
    NASCAR can't just go out and buy a Chevy. They have to earn the right
    to use a Chevy.
    	In case anybody is wondering. They are making the Chevy drivers.
    Lower the front dam spoiler a quarter of an inch. While at the same
    time raise the rear spoiler a quarter of an inch. To create more wind
    drag on the Chevy's.
    
    Ron

Re NASCAR:

	Chevy's been running away with it.  In their typical style,
	NASCAR has decided to diddle with the rules in mid-season, just
	like they did last year.

	That's my biggest gripe about NASCAR.  They change the rules
	mid-season, and it's hell on the independent who don't have
	the capitol to instantaneously make the changes to all their
	cars, etc etc etc.

	And they have to have parity.  That's why they run restrictor
	plates on the super speedways.  Course, with all the cars running
	at about the same speed, in those long packs, it's an accident
	waiting to happen.....


>    IMSA Driver update - 
>    
>    Jeremy Dale - Critical but stable condition after surgery to repair
>    what were described as "complex orthopedic injuries" to his lower legs
>    and feet at the Georgia Baptist Medical Center.  A seperate team of
>    surgeons worked on each limb.

Well, THAT'S good news.


    
>    Fabrizio Barbazza - Unconscious in stable but critical condition,
>    suffering from a swelling of the brain, a severely broken arm, a
>    punctured lung and a wound in his leg.  Race team Owner Antonio Ferrari
>    said Barbazza would remain unconscious under sedative for at least 72
>    hours after the accident.

Yeah, they'll keep him out to let his brain rest for a while.  That's a pretty
common thing.

    
>    UMDan

Thanks UMDan!!!!

RE NASCAR and USAC (or what ever it's called these days)

  Tromp on the gas and turn left.

  George

>
>  Tromp on the gas and turn left.
>


If it was that easy, you or I could do it.

And it's not tromp on the gas and turn left in either of them, actually.

Next NASCAR race is at Sear Point, and Watkins Glen comes up later in the
season.

USAC or the Indy cars run a mixed schedule of road and oval course....


'Saw

  <<< Note 78.439 by CAMONE::WAY "USS Grenadier SS-210, On Eternal Patrol" >>>

>And it's not tromp on the gas and turn left in either of them, actually.

  Actually that's an old feeling left over from when I was a kid. Back in the
60's, Formula I, II, etc and the European Manufactures championships were
always held on road courses but all NASCAR and USAC events were held on "ovals"
(many of them are not really ovals) which involved going fast and turning left.

  In fact, back then most Indy cars actually had more distance between the
center of gravity and the right wheels than the center of gravity and the left
wheels.

  This was traditionally a busy time of year for racing back in the '60s. The
Grand Prix du Monte Carlo which opened the Formula I season and Indy 500 were
at about the same time and many drivers had to fly back and forth to qualify.
Do they still run Monte Carlo? 

  George

I'm gonna get into this here NASCAR stuff thised summer. Hail, it's
either that or baseball.

The Monte Carlo was not a_inherently better car. NASCAR already gave them
some advantages because GM has been whining the lasted couple of years
about the dominance, at least in winning races, of the Thunderbirds.

Now, they've leveled the playing field in their usual manner which is to
change the rules in the middle of the game. NASCAR is basically a couple
of guys just north of Charlotte who run it as their own little
dictatorship.

BTW, George, if'n you wanna tromp on it and go left you can. Come on up
to the Charlotte Motor Speedway and you can rent one of those bad boys
and then you'll see how easy it is. Let me know when you're coming up and
I'll try to check it/you out.

TTom

    
    good thing NASCAR ain't running the NBA, MJ'd have to play in ankle
    weights. Of course against the Knicks that wouldn't make a difference.
    
     ;^)
    
    Personally I feel that the rule changes to level the field are stupid.
    Ford and the other guys pump millions into the sport so let them build
    a better car. If not then let the Chevys dominate. 
    
    mike

    Sounds like the America's cup

It aint a case of better.

You have to build one to specs and that's the rub. The specs can change
from race to race, track to track. For instance, NASCAR requires
restraining plates in the carburetors on the super tracks like Charlotte,
Daytona and Talladega. Go to Martinsville and it's a different set of
rules for the engine and fuel system.

TTom

RE         <<< Note 78.441 by HBAHBA::HAAS "You ate my hiding place." >>>

>BTW, George, if'n you wanna tromp on it and go left you can. Come on up
>to the Charlotte Motor Speedway and you can rent one of those bad boys
>and then you'll see how easy it is. Let me know when you're coming up and
>I'll try to check it/you out.

  Ok, you're the 2nd person to say that so I guess I better respond.

  What does my ability to drive a car have to do with anything? What we
are talking a bout here is a spectator sport where spectators like us watch
the top pros race against each other. My ability or inability to drive a
race car means nothing in this discussion.

  Back in the mid '60s some of the top builders recruited the best drivers in
the world (read Formula I) to came over to the U.S. and race in the Indy 500.
For the most part, they left the American drivers in their dust. They referred
to the Indy 500 as America's foreign aid program and complained that it was
nothing more than an exercise in turning left.

  The international drivers who were fastest at the Indy 500 back then were
Jimmy Clark, Jimmy Stewert, Graham Hill, and the other Formula I drivers. Going
head to head the only driver who ran mostly American races who could keep up
with the Formula I drivers was A.J. Foyt. Dan Gerney could also run with the
best of them but then he was an American Formula I driver. 

  George

Monte Carlo is still run, and it's one of the toughest Grand Prix races, 
IMO.


As to NASCAR levelling the field, I don't have a problem with it, BEFORE
the season starts.  I too want to see the drivers and the pit crews compete.

But they make their changes in the middle of the season, and the only one
it really hurts are the independents.   Someone like Rusty Wallace, with
a well-funded, well-run shop (he's affiliated with Roger Penske) doesn't
have much problem with making changes mid-season.  It's a pain, but doable.

But guys like Dave Marcis, Dick Trickle, James Hilton are independents.
It's a little easier for Dave this year, because he's got sponsorship, but
in years past, those guys would have to scramble, and probably miss a race
due to having to comply with changes.

Let's face it, though they're a dying breed, the independents are really
the "soul" of NASCAR.

>
>  Back in the mid '60s some of the top builders recruited the best drivers in
>the world (read Formula I) to came over to the U.S. and race in the Indy 500.
>For the most part, they left the American drivers in their dust. They referred
>to the Indy 500 as America's foreign aid program and complained that it was
>nothing more than an exercise in turning left.
>

Your first sentence puts it all in perspective.  That's 30 years ago...


You can debate who's better till your blue in the face, but today, the
drivers are pretty well even.   Nigel came over and won an Indy Car
championship, but there were certain things about his driving that were lacking
in that scene.

The only Indy driver that has done at all well in NASCAR is John Andretti.
Li'l Al is pretty much a whiner and can't deal with the contact that
invariably happens in a NASCAR race.

The NASCAR guys tend to do better than the road racers in the IROC.  I don't
know why that is....


It all depends on what your good at.  NASCAR and Formual I are probably
at opposite ends of the spectrum.  One started with European dudes with
lots o' buck to play, and the other started running moonshine down southern
backroads....

Both sets of drivers have "mighty big ones" though, if you get my drift....

Lighten up, there George.

I merely suggested a_opportunity to drive one of them NASCARs. I didn't
say it was hard or that you couldn't do it. Man, you been listening to
too many talk shows. Or maybe it's those SOAPBOX episodes ;-).

Now, back to racing. Changing the rules in midstream has always been a
feature of NASCAR. In a way it's something like moving Frasier opposite
Home Improvements just so Seinfeld can win the sweeps. With that
accomplished, Frasier moves again.

TTom

  Well it may have been 30 years ago but there were some pretty good races and
pretty good drivers back then. 

  One thing that really bothers me a lot is barriers they've put in the main
straight away at Le Mans to create the two sets of "S" turns. Way back when
cars would get up over 200mph (back when race cars hardly ever went that fast)
and the drivers would get a chance to relax.

  Also, they used teams of 2 drivers, not 3.

  I don't know, I suppose it's safer and that's better but when I tuned in
to ESPN one day a few years ago and saw what they had done to that straight
away I felt a cringe. Mustache on the Mona Lisa sort of thing.

  George

    
>>  The international drivers who were fastest at the Indy 500 back then were
>>Jimmy Clark, Jimmy Stewert, Graham Hill, and the other Formula I drivers. Going
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
               |||||||||||||
    
    Was that before or after he made "It's A Wonderful Life" and
    "Harvey"????
    
    It's JACKIE Stewart, George.  Go back to skating, will ya.
    
    JaKe
    

RE   <<< Note 78.450 by PTOSS1::JACOBR "Playing with box the kids came in!" >>>

>    It's JACKIE Stewart, George.  Go back to skating, will ya.
    
  Little old lady spellen patrol again.

  Ok so it was Jackie Stewart. Like the man said it was 30 years ago.

  I long for the good old days of motor sport, when the cars looked like cars,
(except for Indi cars that looked like cigars) before ground effect and
fiberglass bodies and gawd know what other composites they use today. 

  I suppose it's safer,
  George

    
>>>    It's JACKIE Stewart, George.  Go back to skating, will ya.
    
>>  Little old lady spellen patrol again.
    
    Lets see, Jimmy .vs. Jackie, not spelling patrol, mistaking one for the
    other is a major brain cramp, George.  Must be the effect of too much
    figure skating on yer brain over the years.
    
    JaKe
    

    

    I see.  If George can nit pick what someone says, it's fine and f__king
    dandy, but let someone say something about something he's written, EVEN
    IN JEST, and he jumps all over them.
    
    JaKe
    

>  NAH nah NAH Nah nah, you're an idiot, you spelled a word wrong, you like
>figure skating, you're an idiot
    
    Run-on sentences.  Minus 10 points.
    
    NNTTM.
    
    

    George, it's *rationale*.
    
    NNTTM.

    
  >>Have I got that about right or am I missing something?
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    A sense of humor, for starters.
    
    I shall refrain from entering anything more on this subject for the
    sole purpose of keeping from cluttering uyp the motor sports note with
    absolute garbage.
    
    Okay, Jacki...er...George???
    
    JaKe
    

  Fine with me,

  George

>    I shall refrain from entering anything more on this subject for the
>    sole purpose of keeping from cluttering uyp the motor sports note with
>    absolute garbage.

Hail, that'd leave me out then, too ;-).

TTom

  So has anyone got their engines revved over the Indy 500?

  In about a couple days some of the best drivers in the world will be climbing
into to 33 of the hottest cars in the world, with hopes of tromping on the gas
and turning left about 800 times to chase after what has traditionally been the
most sought after title in motor sport. 

  Anyone planning to watch?

  Anyone got a prediction as to who will win?

  George 

    
 >> Anyone planning to watch?

    If it rains here.
    
 >> Anyone got a prediction as to who will win?
    
    Well, definitely not Emmo or Al, Jr.
    
    JaKe
    

    Jacques Villenueve(sp?) wins the Indy 500 after Scott Goodyear f__k's
    up and passes the pace car in turn 4.  Villenueve is the firsted
    Canadian to win the race.
    
    Anybody hear how the guy with the bad head injuries from the crash on
    the firsted turn of the race is doing??(Sam Fox, or something like
    that).
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Saw an interesting tidbit on CNN yesterday.  Apparently all 33 cars
    from last years race were built in England.
    
    The lowlights of the race were unusual (I think).  There were something
    like 8 violations that cost a minimum of one lap.
    
    Marc
    

    
    cmon that pace car was turning in. Goodyear got screwed!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    mike

    
    	Do some of those drivers have any brains? The speed limit on pit
    lane is 100 M.P.H. Which was broken too many times to count. Costing
    a lot of people a lap, having to a stop and go penalty. One Driver
    comes into the pits for his stop and go penalty. Then proceeds to break
    100 MPH leaving the pits. Getting another stop and go penalty.
    	Nice screw up by Michael Andretti's crew. Somebody should have told
    him that the guy in front of him was coming into the pits. Andretti
    brushes the wall in turn 4. He had to avoid the car in front of him
    that was slowing down half way around turn 4, to enter the pits.
    	I'm glad USAC finally black flagged a driver. For trying to get a
    jump start on the field, After a yellow flag caution. It cost Scott
    Goodyear the race, buy hey you break the rules you pay. It was just so
    blatant that they had to black flag him. He had about a 4 second jump.
    	Stan Fox is still in serious but stable condition. He had brain
    surgery to relieve the pressure. The other drivers suspect that
    something had to break on his car. His car went left hit the rumble
    strip. Then the rear tires caught the grass, turning his car sideways.
    He then did a sling shot effect across the track and into the wall.
    With his car being demolished and cut in half. After hitting the wall
    his car continued spinning against the wall. He then hit the wall feet
    first. His protective carriage around him was already destroyed. So he
    hit the wall with his legs. Havn't heard anything about his legs.
    Except one report said serious head and leg injuries.
    
    Ron 

    I can see saying Goodyear was screwed if the infraction had happened on
    the front straightaway, but it was at the start of turn 4 that goodyear
    played Massachussetts driver and nailed the gas to get the early jump
    on the field.
    
    As fer Fox, local rag said this morning that he's still in a coma,
    listed as critical but stable condition, and has 3-5 days ahead of him
    that are very crucial.  Sad.
    
    As for Andretti, he had to go high to avoid hitting the car in front of
    him, and he said that once he left the groove, it was like being on
    ice, as shown by the many cars that hit the wall from "getting out of
    the groove."
    
    Shame, though, cause Andrettis was running great and may have cruised
    to a win without that mishap, but then again, that's Indy and the
    Andretti family.
    
    JaKe
    

  Goodyear claimed that the light was green when he went by the pace car but
the Globe is reporting that it was still yellow. Looks like the right call by
the officials. 

  George

Enough with that sissy Indy stuff. Now with some real Racin News :+)

Jeff Gordon has been doing so good this season that the rumors have been
flying that he's getting Michael Jordan type reffing when it comes to
inspections. Illegal motors, illegal chassis, underweight cars, etc.

Well, now it might be true. At the used to be World 600, Gordon had some
problems that ended when his front right wheel falling off. This caught
the attention of the NASCAR inspectors and when they got to looking, they
found that Gordon's crew chief had used whatcha call "unapproved" parts
which broke and caused the wheel to fall off. Supposedly, the part was
made of titanium which is banned.

Ray Evernham, said same crew chief, was fined a record $60K and placed on
indefinite probation, probably for a minimum of 20 races and possibly the
rest of the year.

TTom

You know I'd heard that too.

Glad he got caught.  I don't really like Gordon..... 


'Saw

Gordon is the star of the future for NASCAR. 

Much as the NBA came of age with Bird and Magic, NASCAR blossomed with
Dale Earnhardt. Well ol' Dale aint gonna be around fer ever so meet the
new star, a lot like the ol' star. Jeff Gordon is the main main of the
future.

BTW, ex-Redskin coach Gibbs won the whole 600 with Bobby Labonte driving
the Interstate Batt'ry Chevy. The Chevies are now 13 and 2 on thised
year's circuit.

TTom

    
    Yep !  The Chevy's are running off from the fords. It's gotten so bad
    for the ford teams that NASCAR made the GM people reduce their
    downforce and allowed ford to add to theirs.
    
    Dale Earnahrdt lead the Winston Cup Champ field by 80 points

You gotta luv them NASCAR people who change the rules as the season
progresses.

But afore you start picking on Ford, you have to go back to lasted year
when this year's Monte Carlo would not have been legal under lasted
year's rules. They drove the Lumina lasted year and even Chevy fans say
it sucked.

Has anyone seen the rear window sticker of Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes
fame pissing on the Ford logo? It's getting very popular amongst the
Chevy fans.

TTom

>
>You gotta luv them NASCAR people who change the rules as the season
>progresses.
>

That's because the manufacturer's championship is almost more important
than the driving championship, and NASCAR cannot afford to have one run
away with it.


The new Monte Carlo is pretty hot.  There's a babe who lives in my apartment
complex that has a white one.  The combination is quite appealing....


>But afore you start picking on Ford, you have to go back to lasted year
>when this year's Monte Carlo would not have been legal under lasted
>year's rules. They drove the Lumina lasted year and even Chevy fans say
>it sucked.

Ford ruled last year.


Jeff Gordon is a media-hyped wussy....8^)

Locally, they're giving big play to a_ad by Jeff Gordan where he tells us
all about the wonderful merits of the Lumina.

Yeah, he liked 'em so much he switched to Monte Carlos!

TTom

  Meanwhile back to real car racing, anyone hear when the 24 hours of Le Mans
is suppose to take place? Seems it's usually early to mid June.

  I hate the way they've broken up the main straight with those S turns. Any
chance they'll go back to the 2.5 mile straight?

  George

Meanwhile back to real General Motors Sports type Racin'...

Terry Labonte won the Pocono 600 yesterday when Jeff Gordan blew a shift 
and most of his motor.

With about 12 laps to go a wreck forced a yellow flag. Under these 
circumstances, all the cars on the lead lap are allowed to go to the 
pits. When they exited it was Gordon, who had led most of the race, 
followed by Labone, with everyone else bunched up behind them.

When they gave the green flag Gordon trompted on it and started pulling 
away. But somewhere between second and third gear he blew it big time and 
coasted to a 16th place finish.

Labonte kept runnerup Ted Musgrave at bay for a relatively easy and very 
lucky win.

Sterling Marlin finished 4th to get 23 points closer to points leader 
Dale Earnhardt. Speaking of Dale, if'n you saw the Belmont, Thunder Gulch 
and Star Standard looked a lot like Dale and Rusty Wallace coming through 
the lasted turn. Lot's of contact but, as they say, that's racin!

TTom

>When they gave the green flag Gordon trompted on it and started pulling 
>away. But somewhere between second and third gear he blew it big time and 
>coasted to a 16th place finish.


Nothing could make me happier....

>Dale Earnhardt. Speaking of Dale, if'n you saw the Belmont, Thunder Gulch 
>and Star Standard looked a lot like Dale and Rusty Wallace coming through 
>the lasted turn. Lot's of contact but, as they say, that's racin!

Rusty and Dale mix it up a long.  They're friends and hard competitors so they
know what to expect.



I put it over the junk note but my bro was there and said that Pocono has gone
down hill as a place to see a race.....



'Saw

>Nothing could make me happier....

This noter was especially happy. I had Terry Labonte in a pool. 

Nexted week is at Brooklynn, Mich, for the Miller Genuine Draft 400. You
gotta figger that Rusty Wallace should win since they're his main
sponsor.

Let's see: five weeks till Panther training camp; pre-season in 7 weeks.
This NASCAR stuff just might get me through baseball.

TTom

>
>This noter was especially happy. I had Terry Labonte in a pool. 
>

Well, aside from the fact that I think Jeff Gordon is a weenis...8^)


>Nexted week is at Brooklynn, Mich, for the Miller Genuine Draft 400. You
>gotta figger that Rusty Wallace should win since they're his main
>sponsor.

Nah, Rusty's having a sh*t year.  Buddy Parrot left the crew and there have
been minor glitches that have been costly -- a few weeks back he was leading a
race and decided not to pit because the figured they had enough fuel to win it.
He ran out with like two laps left.   So, we figured it was a
miscalculation, but it turned out that there was like 1.5 gallons left in the
tank after the race.   

Evidently, when they put the fuel line into the bottom of the tank, there's a 
collar on the fitting that is supposed to be installed down.  Whoever installed
it, installed it UP, thus preventing the last bunch of fuel from getting sucked
into the engine.    NOT GOOD.

Rusty's getting some kinks worked out thised year.



re Pocono:

	Up til now, Pocono was a pretty good place to see a race.
	They have that 2nd and 3rd turn that make things pretty exciting,
	and the amenties were pretty good -- except that you can only
	get hot dogs there inside the track.  (If you want other foods, you
	have to get them out in the trailer area, which you can't during the
	race).

	My bro wants to do Charlotte next year.

	Loudon is a nice place to see a race.......


'Saw

re: Rusty

He's still running at 8th in the points. He won Martinsville, one of only
two races a Ford won. His problem yesterday was that they never could get
his car to ride right on the track. It was alternatively too loose and
then too tight. He spun out all by hisself late in the race which put him
off the lead lap, which is where he ended.

RE: Charlotte.

There's still Oct 8 for the 500.

TTom

Nice run by Rusty yesterday -- he just ran out of real estate or he would have
been battling Gordon and Labonte.

The highlight for me though was at the end of the race, in pit road, when
Mikey Waltrip cut off Lake Speed, jumped out of his car, ran over to Lake's
car, pulled down the safety net, and clocked Lake twice in the head.

I haven't heard any more on this incident, but I cannot believe that Waltrip
won't get at LEAST a hefty fine, if not a suspension.

NASCAR is really working hard to build up their reputation as family
entertainment, and while Ma and Pa Doe from East Trailer Holler, North Carolina
might get a kick outta one of them there NASCAR guys whacking another one of
them there NASCAR guys in the haid, I'm sure NASCAR takes a dimmer view of
Michael Waltrip's pugilistic demonstration.

All the announcer said was that Speed had taken Waltrip clean in a corner, and
then several other cars got by Waltrip.   

Michael does have the reputation of being a bit of a crybaby on the circuit,
and at 6'6", he shouldn't be hitting anybody, cause there's no one his own size
to hit.......


TTom, hear anything about it down there in NASCAR country??????


'Saw

    
    
    Poor ole Rusty might win one if he would get rid of that ford!!. The
    Hendricks Chevy's are really hot this year. Labonte and Gordon have
    been in front most of the year, with Earnhardt on their tail. 
    
    Earnhardt lost the points lead yesterday after getting knocked out early
    in the race. 
    

Well, on Sunday he was doing what he did last year at Michigan.

Last year, he ran out of gas, pitted, came back out with 15 laps left, in 
11th place, ran the field and won.

He came out of his last pit stop on Sunday in 12th, and ALMOST did it.


Lots of changes for him over the past two year -- Pontiac to Ford, Buddy Parrot
leaving to run his own team.....  Change is not good....8^)


'Saw

NASCAR has done stepped in and fined ol' Michael Waltrip 10 grand for
punching Lake Speed twice.

Waltrip is just a little frustrated cause he's never won a NASCAR event
and the idea of being edged out by Speed's Spam Car was too much for him
to contain.

Of course, it weren't real sportin to not even let Speed get up outta
that car to defend himself, even.

Sterling Marlin is the new points leader, slightly ahead of Dale and Jeff
Gordon.

I learned a new term thised week listening to the race. They kept using
the term "marble" to describe what it was like if'n  you got high up in
the curves. The surface had just been redone and I guess they were
talking about flakes of pavement, like gravel. Down in the line of the
track, they get run over, blowed away and otherwise disappear. But up
there where you're not supposed to be they hand out waiting for the
driver and car to go up and away. Dale was one of the victims of the
marbles. 

TTom

>
>NASCAR has done stepped in and fined ol' Michael Waltrip 10 grand for
>punching Lake Speed twice.
>
>Waltrip is just a little frustrated cause he's never won a NASCAR event
>and the idea of being edged out by Speed's Spam Car was too much for him
>to contain.
>

I'm surprised that's all they did. 

My brother and I were talking about this last evening.  My brother figured
at least a suspension, based on previous incidents.   Last season, or two
seasons ago, they suspended Jimmy Spencer for hitting some other guy's crew
chief, in addition to a fine.

Pretty weeney penalty.

Maybe they were worried that Crybaby Mikey would cry some more....



>Of course, it weren't real sportin to not even let Speed get up outta
>that car to defend himself, even.

Mikey said "He had his helmet on - it wasn't like I could hurt him"

Course, it would have been classic to see Lake get out and beat the living
sh*t out of him.   But Lake isn't like that.


'Saw

Michael Waltrip has absolutely no credibility when it comes to any kinda
driving. Not his driving. Not his opinion of others' driving. Like I
said, he's won a grand total of nothing on the circuit.

I really think that the powers that be felt it was one of those no harm
no foul thangs. 

Lost in the shuffle is the continued dominance of Chevy thised year. At
the end it was Gordon and Bobby Labonte out in front.

TTom

>I really think that the powers that be felt it was one of those no harm
>no foul thangs. 

That's unusual though, for something seen on TV.  There was a fight amongst
pit crews at the end of the season two years ago.  It didn't make it onto
the TV -- total fines, one crew chief $250.

But when it's on TV....


>Lost in the shuffle is the continued dominance of Chevy thised year. At
>the end it was Gordon and Bobby Labonte out in front.

Wonder what illegal parts Gordon was running this time, the littel weenis.

;^)

Actually, ol' Jeff is probably wondering what illegal part Bobby Labonte
had in his car.

Close to the end, there was a restart and Gordon won the hole shot. But
shortly thereafter, Labonte passed him and held the lead. This is the
firsted time thised year that Gordon couldn't catch anybody cause he had
the second best car. Lasted week, he lost but he blew a shift or
otherwise he'd've won that one, too.

They give 'em a week of and then it's on to Daytona for the 1st of July.
It's the Pepsi 400.

TTom

It looks like I'm not the onliest NASCAR band wagon jumper. 

This year, USA today is giving much more attention to stock cars. In
today's issue, there's the stats on the last page with the points leaders
and the race results.

There's a photo of Bobby Labonte, lasted weeks' winner. Beside him is a
car with no caption, leaving the assumption that it's Labonte's. Nooop.

Firsted of all, it's #22 which belongs to Randy Lajoie. It also happens
to be a Pontiac while Bobby, like most of the winners thised year, drives
a Chevy.

TTom

It had to happen.

Just lasted week at the Poconos, a Ford won and finished in 8 of the top 
10. So what must follow? Right, the Chevies are complaining.

Rick Hendricks, owner of three of the teams - Jeff Gordon (5 wins), Terry
Labonte (2) and Ken Schrader (zip) - and builder of the motors used by 
virtually all the leading Chevy drivers , e.g., Dale Earhheart, is now 
crying that the Fords are getting a better deal from the NASCAR rules 
than the Chevies. 

The specific issue is the spoiler which at this point gives the Fords 
about a half inch advantage. 

In addition to the 7 wins outta 17 that Hendricks has, he's won the pole
8 times. Chevies have won a total of 13 outta 17. The points race is 
fairly evenly divided although Chevy has the firsted two with Gordon and 
Sterling Marlinj.

I guess that third Ford victory is making ol' Rick a little nervous.

TTom

    
    TTom,
    
    	Wait until next year. The new Ponitac's supposedly are going to
    be real strong next year. They wind tunnel test better then this
    year's Chevy's.
    
    Ron

I think that wind tunnel stuff is really overrated. Not like it's
meaningless or not useful.

But they gotta ride these crates on all manner of varying surfaces,
in wierd angles and among a bunch of other drivers. Drafting of cars
totally changes the aerodynamics. The reason why you ram the guy in front
of you isn't to push him outta the way, it's to totally disrupt his air
flow which apparently makes the car feel like the brakes are on and
another car is on top of it.

It would be nice to see the Pontiacs come back. Same goes for Dodges
and/or other Chryslers. The more the merrier.

TTom

Up till a few years ago (4, 5 maybe) Olds used to participate....


'Saw

Didn't Cale Yarborough drive a_Olds?

I keep wondering when the Japanese will try to get into this. Honda is
involved with about ever kinda motor sports they is.

It wouldn't surprise me, however, if'n the powers that be wanted to keep
this a_murkin thang. 

TTom

    
    No NASCAR team in their right mind would show up at the track with a
    rice burner on the trailer.

I think it is limited to American stuff.  I could ask my brother.....

Wail, it looks like it may be all over but the shouting, whining and
crying.

Jeff Gordon won yesterday's race at Dover and increased his point lead to
3880-3571 over second place Dale Earnhardt, who finished 5th.

To get some idea of how big this lead is, Gordon got 185 points for
winning yesterday. There's only 6 more races to go. This translates into
something like finishing Top 10 4 times and then he doesn't even have to
show up for 2 of 'em.

Bobby Hamilton, driving Richard Petty's Pontiac, finished a strong
second.

In the factory race, Chevy now has 19 wins, Ford 5 and Pontiac 1.

TTom

    
    Speaking of Jeff Gordon, I was watching Jay Leno last week and he
    had Dale Ernhardt on the show. Dale had just won the Brickyard and
    told Jay he was the first man to win the Brickyard. The Brickyard I
    guess have been run twice and Gorodn was the other winner.
    
    mike

Yeah,

Dale was cool on Leno. Did you catch the lawn garden tractor race they
had? After the race, which Leno won by a bumper, Dale got in another ding
on Gordon by calling Leno "Wonder Boy", the moniker for Gordon.

The Brickyard 400 started lasted year when Gordon won and then Dale won
thised year.

Needless to say, Dale aint that big a fan of Young Jeff. It's a little
surprising that nothing has happened on the track where Dale usually
likes to settle things. The problem is that Dale aint been able to catch
him in many of the races.

Right now, about the onliest shot Dale has is if'n Gordon has a bunch of
DNFs - did not finish. Don't be surprised to see Dale taking a_active
part in this.

TTom

Gordon's a whining weenis.

Ernie Irvan has been cleared to return to NASCAR 13 months after he
almost kilt hisself at Brooklyn, Michigan.

At one point, Irvan's chances of survival much less chances of returning
to racing were rated very low. But thised weekend, he'll jump into a_old
Ford pickmeup and race in the supertruck event at Martinsville.

He's returning to the Robert Yates team. Currently Dale Jarrett is
running the ol' Davie Allison #28. After running a couple of truck races,
they'll decide whether or not to let Ernie try it out with the big boys.
If'n he races, he'll run a #88. Nexted year, he would switch with
Jarrett.

TTom

>
>He's returning to the Robert Yates team. Currently Dale Jarrett is
>running the ol' Davie Allison #28. After running a couple of truck races,
>they'll decide whether or not to let Ernie try it out with the big boys.
>If'n he races, he'll run a #88. Nexted year, he would switch with
>Jarrett.
>


A minor correction:

	The ol' Davie Allison Texaco Ford Thunderbird #28


thankee,
'Saw

>	The ol' Davie Allison Texaco Ford Thunderbird #28

One of the ironies of this is that Jarrett left the Joe Gibbs Interstate
Batt'ry Chevy to drive thised Ford. Seeing all them Chevy wins, Jarrett
was quoted as saying he might nota switched if'n he know'd that them
Monte Carlos would be so hot.

BTW, "Monte Carlo" aint a_American name, is it? What kinda message does
this send to the fans of this truly American sport?

TTom

>BTW, "Monte Carlo" aint a_American name, is it? What kinda message does
>this send to the fans of this truly American sport?

Well, you got to look at it this way.  YOu gotta blame the folks at
Chivvy for that thar problem.  

Them thar Chivvy folks are figgerin' that they'll sell more of them thar
cars if'n they 'uz called Montey Carlow.  Wail, now, I don' see it that
way 't-all.

If'n you 'uz to ask me, I'd call it the Chivvy 'Merican....  Course, now,
years ago, Rambler was callin' their cars 'Merican, but they all went outta
biznezz years back....

Yep, the Chivvy 'Merican....that's what I'd call it if I 'uz wantin' to
sell me some of them thar cars....

Thised week it was Martinsville in the rain, rain, and then some more
rain.

So much rain that they rained out all the events except the main race
which meant that Ernie Irvan didn't have his return trip since he was
gonna be in the truck race which didn't happen.

Neither did qualifying which led to Jeff Gordon getting the pole and Dale
getting the #2 slot as the starting order was set by the points
standing.

Before the race, there was some more stuff about Dale and Gordon and they
were being interviewed together and Dale said that he didn't have
anything against Jeff except for the fack that Gordon talked like a
little girl!

Meanwhile, Earnhardt got the hole shot at the start and led most of the
way onto his 4th win of the season.

Watching 'em race at Martinsville makes it seem like a different sport
almost than the big races like Talledega. At Talledega, they run near
200. In Martinsville, the average lap was around 80.

So, Gordon, who finished 7th, has a 275 point lead with 5 races togo.
If'n he finishes 10th or better the rest of the races, it don't matter
what anyone else does.

TTom

Wail, Wonder Boy has won it all!

Yesterday was the conclusion of thised year's NASCAR series, finishing at 
Atlanta. Gordon went in needing to finish 41st or lead a lap, which he 
did to shut out the winner of the race and the second place overall Dale 
Earnhardt.

And no sooner had the results become official afore the hyping and 
sniping started.

One camp is saying the torch has passed from one generation to a younger 
one. Gordon is the second youngest champion.

The other camp which has at least one member, Dale Earnhardt, is that 
Gordon hasn't done all that much. "Winning one championship doesn't make 
him the greatest driver in the world. He's got a long ways to go win 200 
races [a la Richard Petty] and 7 or 8 championships [Petty and Earnhardt 
share the record at 7]."

Sterling Marlin finished second in the race and ended up at the 3rd spot 
behind Gordon and Earnhardt.

TTom

    
    Chevrolet finishes 1-2-3 for the Mfg. trophy. The Ford teams will
    have to go back to the drawing board. This comes after NASCAR made the 
    GM teams reduce the aerodynamic force of the spoilers and ground effects 
    to give the Fords a chance at winning a race or two.

The Ford teams also have to start worrying about the Grand Prix[e]s
nexted year. Basically, the put them through the same kinda testing and
changes that was done lasted year to the Monte Carlo.

The Thunderbirds are at least a year behind make a significant change and
are most likely going to be whining nexted year for some relief with
spoilers and the like. I can almost hear Rusty Wallace right now.

Of course, all of the top Chevies use the same Hendricks' engines so
maybe Ford and Pontiac need to do some more catching up.

TTom

    
    	Going into yesterday it was about as close to 100% you could get.
    That Jeff Gordon would be the Winston Cup champion. He couldn't
    finish in last place. So what does his team owners do. Well they own
    2 cars. So after the 1st lap they had the 2nd car come into the pits
    for 2 laps. Putting Jeff's teammate 2 laps down and in last place. If
    Jeff had early problems. They just pull the other car into the pits.
    So Jeff doesn't finish last. The old guarantee strategy.
    
    Ron

And then he waited for Sterling Marlin to pit and led the race for a lap
to clinch it.

The lasted race of the year is usually littered with provisional entrants
so this stunt by Hendricks ain't all that bad a ploy. I'm a little
surprised that Childress, the owner of the #3 car, didn't put a couple of
his guys in to take Gordon out. Dale couldn't do it cause he woulds still
had to win this race.

TTom

My brother is like a die hard fan.

I told him it was getting to be the WWF on four wheels.  The powers that be
decided that Jeff Gordon would win the championship this season, and he did.

Weenis-Face (Jeff Gordon) is pretty popular (gawd knows why) and they needed
to hold off Dale Earnhardt winning his record championship for another year at
least.

Throughout these last few races, I actually found myself pulling for Dale
Earnhardt, and have found a driver that I like less than Dale...

At least Dale went out and did what he had to do.  Gordon didn't have the balls
to go out and run hard.

I remember a few years back when Kulwicki had to win that last race and did it
to win the championship, beating Bill Elliot by "a lap led" difference.  That
was gutsy stuff.

Gordon was a weenis who didn't have the heuvos to take run hard.


'Saw

    
  >> My brother is like a die hard fan.
    
     How much like a real fan is he?

>    
>  >> My brother is like a die hard fan.
>    
>     How much like a real fan is he?
>

Too much.


I love my brother, don't get me wrong, but man, he comes out with some of these
expressions and such -- none that come to mind right now, but he'll use them
and this little bell goes off in my head that says 'Oh, die hard NASCAR
expression' and it sounds kind of funny to me.

I mean, he likes this stuff more than football even!

>My brother is like a die hard fan.

I get it. This is a car pun. Assault and battery.

The way this all worked out, ya gotta wonder if'n ol' Dale is gonna get
another chance to win his 8th. He's never been one of the favorites of
the insiders. They had to deal with Earnhardt cause he kept winning but
now that Gordon's around they got a new star and they can keep up the
Richard Petty worship.

TTom

    re  .516
    
    $2,000,000+ will do strange things to people.
    He did what he had to, to win the championship.
    It had nothing to do with balls!
    I watched him enough this year to say that Jeff
    definatly has what it takes to race with the
    big dawgs.  I may not be his biggest fan, but it's
    good to see some new blood at the top.

>    $2,000,000+ will do strange things to people.
>    He did what he had to, to win the championship.
>    It had nothing to do with balls!

Which kind of illustrates how the caliber of today's competitors has slipped.

Contrast Weenis with Ted Williams.  Ted Williams comes in after the next to
last came just a hair over .400.  Could have sat himself in the last game,
you know, to do whatever he had to do to finish over .400.

Course Ted goes out in the last game, goes something like 3 for 5 and finishes
at .406


Guess that makes Jeff Gordon the Wade Boggs of NASCAR.



>    I watched him enough this year to say that Jeff
>    definatly has what it takes to race with the
>    big dawgs.  

I've seen him race too.  One day he's going to kill someone.

    Ted's average prior to the final doubleheader with Mack's Athletics at
    old Shibe park was .3955.
    
    On top of anything else regarding that final day, Ted just loved to
    play ball and wasn't going to be deprived of his fun.  Plus as many
    have said he was the most confident athlete they'd ever known.

About ever guy who's won this championship lately has coasted hard at the
end. Bill Elliot, Rusty Wallace and even ol' Terminator hisself, Dale
Earnhardt.

About the onliest guy to win the title racing was the come from behind
run Alan Kulwicki did a couple years back to win it when it looked like
Elliot had it locked. Even then, he needed a 10 point penalty on Mark
Martin to edge him out by a couple of points.

Kulwicki would do a polish lap when he won, going backwards around the
track. He was the best pure racer I've seen with the possible exception
of Tim Richmond who was blackballed by Richard Petty and the powers that
be.

TTom

>    Ted's average prior to the final doubleheader with Mack's Athletics at
>    old Shibe park was .3955.

It was .3995, not .3955.

.3955 is the reply in the Indians note where Hal guarantees a World Series
victory... :-)

>
>It was .3995, not .3955.
>
>.3955 is the reply in the Indians note where Hal guarantees a World Series
>victory... :-)


Yes, but after the first game of that double header it was like .401 or .400.

He could have sat, but didn't, no weenis he.

>Yes, but after the first game of that double header it was like .401 or .400.
>
>He could have sat, but didn't, no weenis he.

.3995 when rounded *is* .400.  I'm siding with you.  He didn't have to play
*any* of the doubleheader.

Actually, I think it was .3996, but I can't back that up.

Yeah, I guess I did.  I wasn't in math mode earlier...8^)

    I stand corrected Roland, these old eyes of mine don't reread what I
    put down too good.  I meant obviously that rounded up (and I think it
    was .39955 which is .3996) it would have given him .400

> I told him it was getting to be the WWF on four wheels.  The powers that be
> decided that Jeff Gordon would win the championship this season, and he did.
    
    The price of popularity.  MrT had this Bill France Jr.-inspired and 
    -conspired spec-tic-kal pegged about 5 years ago, as I recall.  Like
    with "country" music the only good-ol-boy left in it are the accents, 
    and with your Rusty Wallaces even that's gone... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

>    -conspired spec-tic-kal pegged about 5 years ago, as I recall.  Like
>    with "country" music the only good-ol-boy left in it are the accents, 
>    and with your Rusty Wallaces even that's gone... ;-)
    
No, I'll disagree with that.

Most 'em still come from the South, and sound like it.  Rusty's from Missouri
which is why he doesn't sound so bad.  

Geoff Bodine and his brothers are from up this way (Chemung, NY) and a guy I
know's son (how's that fer some english) used to race against him at a local
track here in CT.

But the rest of 'em, Dale, Mark Martin, Weenis, all of the rest of them come
from down south.  

Then, if you listen to some of the old independents who still haul their cars
to qualifying on trailers and live outta their cars, you're talking some real
thick accents.....


'Saw    

Most of 'em are from right 'round here.

Mooresville, Kanapolis, Concord and even beautiful, downtown Charlotte.

TTom

             
> Most 'em still come from the South, and sound like it.  Rusty's from Missouri
> which is why he doesn't sound so bad.  
    
    That's what I said, all that's left are the accents.  The rest has
    been ingeniously packaged.  NASCAR (like Nashville) is a massive 
    industry now, with a marketing arm that would make the Dallas 
    Cowboys proud...
    
    glenn
    

And speaking of Dallas, they're gonna build the nexted super speedway
down there. I think it's gonna be 97 afore they start racing on the real
circuit, though. 

Then NASCAR will start having it's own problems with fans and fan
loyalties. With the advent of the super speedways and the purses they can
pay, some of the smaller tracks may be at risk. Martinsville and North
Wilkesboro are a couple of smaller tracks that are feeling the threat of
this big business.

TTom

Oh, okay, I misunderstood what you wrote.

My mistake, suh.

>                       -< Time to drink Mint Juleps.... >-

That's much too Kentucky Derbian. Get yourself a six-pack and carry it
around all day without a cooler and then have one at nice ambient
temperature.

TTom

> Oh, okay, I misunderstood what you wrote.

    No problem; I left myself open to misinterpretation with that
    gratuitous swipe at Rusty... ;-)
    
    
    glenn
    

>    gratuitous swipe at Rusty... ;-)

I think that there's a rule on this. If'n you either drive the same car
or different one than Rusty then you required to take a gratuitous swipe
at Rusty at least once before and once after each race.

TTom

The world of NASCAR breathed a collective sigh of relief yesterday.

Dale Earnhardt has resigned with Richard Childress that extends his
contract to the year 2000 by which time Armageddon will have prolly
occurred.

On a less cheery note, the small tracks are quickly dying. Burton Smith
owns North Wilkesboro track as well as the new super track being
built in Texas as well as the Charlotte Motor Speedway. He also owns the
race dates that currently go to North Wilkesboro. After thised year, when
the new track in Texas is complete, these dates move to Texas.

TTom

Oh yeah, get this:  They're planning a NASCAR track near Bridgeport CT.

That's be quite a weekend -- you could see the WWF at the Civic Center then
head down to see WWF with cars at Bridgeport....


'Saw

There's gonna be one more track that's gonna lose out. There building
another super track out west and the powers that be will pull NASCAR
outta another small track, like Martinsville, Va.

As to being able to watch NASCAR and rasslin, you used be able to do that
in Charlotte but the NWA and Ric Flair moved to Atlanta.

TTom

    I got to see tractor pulling and Tiny Tim and in concert at a fair in
    Maine last summer.

>
>    I got to see tractor pulling and Tiny Tim and in concert at a fair in
>    Maine last summer.
>

Now, that the-ah, is a bahgain, if you take mah meanin'.  Ayuh.

    
    Local here to CX land, the city of Fountain has given the okay for 
    the transformation of Pikes Peak Meadows into the Colorado Speedway.
    
    A one mile oval with a road course set up in the infield area. Both
    Indy and NASCAR type races are expected to begin once the $30 mill
    project is completed.

That there's the rub.

The NASCAR schedule has about 2 open weeks each year. There's not a lot
of room to add races.

Basically, for everyone new event added, one old one is dropped.

And that 1 mile oval aint gonna motivate the current powers that be.
They're into the Super Speedways with luxury boxes, etc. ,etc.

TTom

1 down, more to go.

Burton Smith has bought the Bristol, TN, track. Look for racing to
disappear from there, too.

TTom

Well, the Daytona 500 is comin' up this weekend, and all the folks who love
NASCAR as just wettin' themselves they're so excited.

Dale "The Inseminator" Earnhardt won the pole, but seein' as I like him better
than that Weenis Jeff Gordon, I don't mind.


About the BEST line I heard recently was Bernard, on this morning's Imus show.
They were talking about it being the biggest race of the NASCAR season, and
about how the goobers were all excited.   In the background you hear Bernard
say

	Yeah, they should call it the In-Breeders Cup.



I laughed so hard I almost drove off the road....

'Saw

Hey, I don't get that joke. Dale doesn't look anything like Jeff Gordon
;-).

In any case, the season has officially started, afore MLB, I might add,
and Dale Jarrett won the Busch Clash. Basically they race a couple of
laps, stop 'em, let 'em change tires and then reverse the field - the
lasted shall be firsted and vice versa - and then they race a couple more
laps.

TTom

>                                      Basically they race a couple of
>laps, stop 'em, let 'em change tires and then reverse the field - the
>lasted shall be firsted and vice versa - and then they race a couple more
>laps.

I was going to reply something like "this sounds about as exciting as a
rain delay", but then I remembered I had promised myself never to knock
anybody else's favorite sports.  I punished myself all last week for
making snide remarks about NBA basketball.

Steve

Hey Steve, 

In this here Topic you can feel free to belittle, knock or otherwise
totally slur NASCAR 'til your hearts delight. 

Now, if'n we can just get 'em to run some cars during that rain delay,
you just might have yourself some fun...

TTom

When I was about 14, my father's law partner became President of the
Southern California Sports Car Club.  One weekend, we went out to the
races.  It was dusty, it was noisy, and I was never so bored in my life.

Yeah, I know, stock cars != sports cars, but I'll bet they're just as
dusty and noisy.

FWIW, horse races and people races don't grab me much, either.

Steve

Just in terms of raw noisepower, NASCAR is louder than most of them
sports cars races.

In fack, attending one of these affairs puts your hearing at risk if'n
you don't bring your plugs.

TTom

  Anyone know the full story on the Indy cars not racing at Indy? I've heard
something about some guy starting an alternate circuit and the real Indy cars
going to another race that day in Michigan, anyone got the word on that?

  George

Well, TTom, if you'da told a little white lie, you might have overcome
my prejudices enough for me to give it a try (right, when the NASCAR
circuit expands to Munich).

But now you've lost me forever.  To this day, I can still remember a
Porsche with an engine that sounded like the Chinese Army armed with
dentists' drills.

Steve

    Check out the latest SI.  If what they say happens you could have a
    whole lot of no-names at the 500 with a competing event being run in
    Michigan.  Looks like anoth "Clash of the Sports Egos" type of
    situation.
    
    UMDan

    All you need to know about NASCAR in order to start a fight at 
    a social gathering of rednecks (I know, I have ex-laws) is to 
    comment that the races are rigged for the final lap, the 
    championship scoring system is arcane and bogus, and, if all
    else fails, that Dale cain't win the Big One...
    
    glenn
    

Steve,

Don't get me wrong. Them Porsches make a mighty fine noise theyselves.

But when it comes to a real insult, it's even better to talk about those
sissies on the Indy circuit in here, the mainly NASCAR type note ;-)

TTom

There IS something primal though, if you've ever seen those beasts head into
turn one off the straight at Pocono.  The sound of those engines is incredible
and for half a moment your heart jumps into your throat.

'Saw

Saw,

If'n yo like Pocono, you should check out Talladega.

The basic NASCAR primer is, as might be expected, relatively short.
There's 3 basic things you need to know.

1. Whenever anyone else makes a comment, the default response is, "I
heard dat."

2. If'n someone actually articulates something intelligible, you say,
"That's racin."

3. If the pole qualifying is taking place, or has recently taken place,
you simpley say, "How 'bout dat Pole?"

That should cover you for most situations.

TTom

>
>If'n yo like Pocono, you should check out Talladega.
>

Now that'd be a trip.


Actually, on those times when I've gone to NASCAR races, I've brought
headphones and a scanner and listened to the the conversations between drivers,
spotters and crew chiefs.  That to me is more interesting that the race itself.

Some of the pit crews are really funny, if'n you get a pit pass and hang out
down there during practice, qualifying and on race morning....


'Saw

    
    	Here is the deal on the Indianapolis 500 and the controversy. The
    owner of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway has started his own Indy car
    series, called ?. You will earn points depending on where you finish
    in HIS races. The top 25 point leaders will AUTOMATICALLY qualify for
    the Indy 500. Leaving 8 places open for people who don't run in his
    races. This guy is trying to monopolize and control Indy car racing.
    Since all of the top Indy racing stars Al Unser Jr., Michaeal Andretti,
    etc.. are staying with the traditional Indy series. They will not
    automatically qualify for the 500 and would have to battle for the 8
    left over slots.
    	So instead of caving in to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, they
    are going to have there own 500 race in Michigan on the same date.
    They are going to qualify for the race just like they use to qualify
    for the Indy 500. Mario Andretti is coming out of retirement for this
    ONE race. So in Michigan you will have Mario and Michael Andretti,
    Al Under Jr. (Maybe SR.), Danny Sullivan, Roberto Guerero, etc..
    	While the Indy 500 will have everybody who couldn't qualify under
    the old system.
    
    Ron

    >  The General Motor Sports Note  
    
    This title either implies any general motor-sports category including
    Indy, Monte Carlo or those dirt tracks like Hudson.  Or else to take
    the title literally we should be discussing things like Oldsmobile's
    Plant softball team.
    
    Steve, you ought to send mail to Dilbert about that code narcissism
    thing of yours.  But don't self-flagellate over criticizing other
    folk's sports although I would never do that.
    
    Btw, George, how'd that Shnauzer make out at the Kennel club finals? 
    Do you think the Akita should've won?

Wail, as a specific motor sport

	NASCAR >>> IndyCar >>> Forumula One

But one thing fer sure, you gots to have a motor so none of that bicycle
talk, OK then?

TTom

Bill Breen,

Are you attending the First Company, Governor's Foot Guard AKC dog show 
at the Hartford Civic Center on Sunday?

I know you're into dogs, and I'm assuming it's show dogs.

If so, let me know.


'Saw


PS  Dog sled racing is pre-internal-combustion motor sports.  8^)

Great, now we have the definition of "motor" broadened to include
biochemical reactions...

I'll show you a foot guard. You're gonna need a foot guard.

TTom

>I'll show you a foot guard. You're gonna need a foot guard.

Now see, everyone makes that mistake.


Having their origin in colonial times, the name has a most definite British
origin (in fact, the whole idea of a guard unit came from the regiments
that formed the royal household guard -- Grenadier Guard, Coldstream Guards, 
whose responsibility was to guard the Monarch).

The Guard regiments (and other British army regiments) have a names like
24th Regiment of Foot (they of the glorious action at Roarke's Drift).  
They don't really use the word infantry, like we do (as in 24th Inf. Division).

Thus, the unit was formed as the Governor's Guard, and became the Governor's
Foot Guard when the mounted unit, or Horse Guard, was added in the 1780's.

Oldest military unit in continuous existence in the country.

Here endeth the lesson.


'Saw


PS  I hope Jeff "I am Weenis, here me whine" Gordon runs his car into the
    wall this weekend....

    > the First Company, Governor's Foot Guard AKC dog show 
    
    Frank,
    	Why do I honestly think that you're not making this up.  It's my
    wife that likes the huskies mainly and the wolf cross if she can find
    them.  I'm not really into it.
    
    Maybe I'll mention this to her.

>    
>    Frank,
>    	Why do I honestly think that you're not making this up.  It's my
>    wife that likes the huskies mainly and the wolf cross if she can find
>    them.  I'm not really into it.
>    
>    Maybe I'll mention this to her.
>

I'm not.  

In 1924, Private Fay I. Maxon suggested to the command that they put on 
a dog show, as method for raising funds for some of the projects (some
philanthropic, some not) that the Guard does.   That Maxon was a Hartford
veterinarian is probably part of the reason for the suggestion.
It was first held in 1925.

It has become one of the premier New England AKC shows.  I don't know much 
about dog shows, but those that do tell me it's a biggie.

This is like the 66th, or 67th annual show.  It was not held during the WWII
period, for obvious reasons.

It is usually held in the State Armory on Broad Street in Hartford, but that
building is undergoing repairs and renovation, so we have had to  move it
to the Civic Center for this year.


It's probably too late to enter, but if she's interested, I can get you
information nexted year.....


'Saw

All this reminds me of ol' Frank Zappa:

	Poodle Bites. Come on Frenchie.

And meanwhile, Saw's bestest and most favoritest driver Jeff Gordno beat
out a couple of sissies from Indy and Formula One to with the ESPY lasted
night.

I only watched the ESPY thing for a while but Bill Murray interviewing
Michael Jordan after his winning the Comeback Athlete. Murray gave him a
couple of zingers for winning the All Star MVP when he shouldn'ta.
Mentioning Monica Seles, who was also in the running, Murray said that he
knew Birmingham was a hard gig but Monica was in the hosptial!~

TTom

>                           -< Jeff Gordon wins ESPY >-

>And meanwhile, Saw's bestest and most favoritest driver Jeff Gordno beat
>out a couple of sissies from Indy and Formula One to with the ESPY lasted
>night.


Did he whine when he accepted it?

"Hello. My name is Rusty Wallace. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!~"

Jeff's not nearly in Rusty's league.

I don't know if'n you caught any of the racin lasted weekend but afore
the Busch Clash they introduced all the drivers and the biggest reaction
was the boos for Gordon.

Oh yeah, Dale Jarrett won and in his acceptance speech whined that the
Chevies are illegal cause they aint got the body as on the streets.

TTom

RE: NASCAR >>> Indy (and spinoffs if you'll excuse the pun) >>> Formula I

  I'd put it the other way around, 

    Formula I >>>
      Manufacturers Championship >>> 
        Indy (etc) >>> 
          NASCAR, Transam, etc.

  Formula I drivers have proven over and over again that they are the best
drivers in the world. In the late 60's when Formula I drivers started racing at
Indianapolis, the Indy 500 was nicknamed a foreign aid program because of the
way Formula I drivers drove around Indy drivers at will. Conversely when the
best Indy drivers drive Formula I they scramble to be competitive. 

  NASCAR? Load a giant engine under the hood, tromp on the gas and turn left.
That is if the bank in the road doesn't make even that unnecessary. There's
about as much sophistication there as a pit bull fight. 

  My personal favorite has always been the Manufacturers Championship (or what
ever they call it today). That's where the sport car prototypes run and it
includes races like the 24 Hour Endurance races at La Mans and Datyona, the 12
Hours of Sebring, etc.

  George

I'll sleep better knowing George don't think all that much o' NASCAR.

But y'all miss the point. It's something to drink beer to/at while you're
waiting for hoops to quit and football to start.

It's on TV, there are distinct data that can be had and afterwards you
know if'n you were entertained or not.

TTom

  You've got a point. Watching the French Grand Prix or a race at Le Mans
would probably call for sipping a '61 Margaux at a track side cafe rather
than drinking beer in the stands.

  But I'm sure plenty of suds get drunk when Formula I travels to Germany
or Great Britain.

  George