Conference back40::soapbox

	Anyone see the commercial that has a strawberry and a red delicious
apple hanging out at the beach, down by the ocean? They are frolicing around.
Then the strawberry rolls over to her towel, and the apple rolls over, too.
They start to kiss, giggle, and that's when you find out that the commercial is
about passion fruit. :-)



Glen

	I can't stand the Ernie Bach commercials with that damn lama named
Chico! How could they ruin such a lovely animal by putting it into a commercial
with Ernie? 


Glen

 I like the one for Polaroid where the dog gets a picture of the cat 
 messing around in the garbage can.

    
    <---- me to, me to.

    
    The Penny Hardaway commercials are great. I think they have 4-5
    different ones. very funny.

    The best by far...
    
    Tostitos commercial at the IRS.
    
    I smell REFUND...
    
    Really???!!!!!!!!
    
    NO...not really......hhhaaahahahahahahaaa...

    It's bad enough I'm inundated with them on TV, now we have an entire
    topic for them....
    
    
    
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    (C) copyright Leech Enterprises  v2.4     

	Somehow it doesn't pack the same effect as a Gene Haag crap. 

    REISEN CHOCOLATE CHEWS - they run it on the early morning news programs
    and I have that B**!? jingle running in my head all day.
    
    PIZZA POCKETS - they run that on the early morning news programs
    as well.  That jingle is like squeeky chalk on blackboards and sends 
    me up the wall.
    
    Snackwell commercials - they portray fat people as food crazed idiots 
    (It's a pity they do that as it forces me to boycott their products and
    I think they are rather good.)
    
    Calvin Kline commercials - no comment.  What are they selling anyway.
    
    Some kind of sneaker advert which is so artsy-fartsy that I don't know
    what it is that they are really selling.  The logo is flashed on the
    screen somewhere in the background for a few seconds and I'm left
    guessing.
    
    

    My, aren't you a happy soul.

    
    I hate the "Sunny Delight" commercials.  
    
    "Well, we've got soda...purple stuff...and Sunny D!"  
    "Let's have the Sunny D!"  
    "Yeah, Sunny D is COOL!"
       
    Blurgh.
    

    >Snackwell commercials - they portray fat people as food crazed idiots 
    >(It's a pity they do that as it forces me to boycott their products and
    >I think they are rather good.)
    
     Wow. Talk about unclear on the concept.
    
    

	I have those Mentos commercials! What, eating their mint is going to
get your brain working so you outsmart someone else? And the people you
outsmart are happy about it? Yeah, right!


Glen

    It's horizontally challenged people!

    
    Oh, yes, the Mentos commercials!  The person does something naughty,
    and when they're caught they just flash their tube of Mentos and the
    person who caught them smiles and laughs.
    
    Cripes, maybe I should carry one of those around just in case 8^).
    

    
    	Real people would probably shoot you if you did the things that
    	those idiots do in the commercials.
    

	The one where the kid was the manican really got me upset. You know the
lady wanted to strike him with her umbrella!

	And just where did that younger version of Helen Hunt find all those
big men to lift her car up?

    >	And just where did that younger version of Helen Hunt find all those
    >   big men to lift her car up?
    
    Man, you're pretty shameless when it comes to finding places to scope
    guys...

    
    	Men??  I thought that was the women's volleyball team from
    	Germany.
    

	Doc, I said they were big men, not big menz! Learn the lingo, man!

    
    Little Caesar's Pizza commercials are good.
    
    The first one was a guy arm-wrestling his little daughter so he
    could get onions on the pizza.
    
    A classic.  They've gotten a bit lame as of late.
    

    I think it's a Scott toilet tissue commerical.  There's a split screen
    with a cat on either side.  As the commercials starts the
    kitties reach up and roll out the toilet paper, proving that Scott
    has more tissue per roll.  And to prove it's softer, the
    cats fall asleep on it afterwards.  Whoever wrote this,
    had cats :-), it cracks me up whenever I see it.
    
    

Some classics:

Volkswagon

c. late '60s, early '70s

Couple of guys in labcoats with clipboards leading a VW mechanic down a 
hall.  Voiceover talks about how good VW mechanics are because of their 
thourough training and testing.  At this point the group enters a room 
that is filled with a VW beetle in pieces.  The lab guys look at the 
mechanic and say, "Put it together."  VO continues while we see shots of 
the mechanic assembling the VW.  At the end, we see a shot of the 
mechanic in front of a fully assembled beetle, twirling a wrench in his 
hand and smiling.  Shot flips to the lab guys who get evil grins on 
their faces, and one says in a sinister voice, "Now.  Take it apart."  
Mechanic looks at them in disbelief, shakes his head, and turns back to 
the beetle.


Alka Seltzer

Same time period.  Akin to the "I can't believe I ate the whole thing."

Middle aged couple in bed.  Man awakes from horrible nightmare.  He 
describes how termites kidnap him, do dire things, etc.  In between 
lines of his story, his wife keeps saying it was the pizza (or whatever 
(I can't remember at the moment)) he ate before retiring to bed.  Banter 
goes back and forth while she gets him an Alka Seltzer.  He drinks it, 
look relieved, lies down, and closes his eyes while smiling.  His wife 
turns out the lights.  We hear a crunching sound, and his eyes open in 
surprise as his side of the bed drops several inches.

    re.Mentos
    
    
    A friend of mine who studies advertising says the makers of Mentos
    commercials intentionally make them annoying. When you see that kid
    climbing through the guy's car, and the guy looks at him and he makes
    that face that you would like to hit with a 9-iron, you get uptight and
    remember that commercial all day. If you go around saying "Confound
    those Mentos people for creating such a disturbing commercial", the
    advertisers have done their job by making you at least think about the
    product. Their commercials are European.
    
    I really hate those plastic Durocell battery people. They disturb me.
    They actually frighten me. 

    
    	I think the Mentos commercials are annoying, but I still won't
    	buy the things.  So did the commercial work on me?  No.
    
    	And I like the Duracell people.
    

    Do you not buy them because they have annoying commercials, or because
    you don't like them. I personally prefer Skittles, but at least Mentos
    stays on my mind, albeit in a hostile environment.

    I go out of my way NOT to buy products being sold via adds that insult
    my intelligence.
    
    Mentos
    Duracell
    stupid, pointless shoe commercials
    etc.
    
    Of course, in some cases, even the great commercials (like the original
    Bud frogs) won't tempt me into buying a product (Bud is to beer, what
    McDonald's is to fine dining).
            

| <<< Note 709.25 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Dancin' on Coals" >>>


| And I like the Duracell people.

	Being plastic yourself, I can see why! :-)

	The little Ceasers commercial where the little kid is in the high
chair, and gets whipped around the house and out the door to see the
grandparents. :-)

	Or when the little kid is singing and has a cat in one arm, and that
pole with a plate spinning above! 


Glen

    those taster choice commercials are very strange.

    .12
    
    Unclear on what concept.
    
    Snackwell insults fat people.  They are not food crazed and in fact
    east on average 1000 calories a day less than thin people.  Overweight
    has more to do with genetics than consumption of food.
    
    I, along with quiet a few other people, boycott advertising that
    promote excessively thin people as goodness, and insult people who are
    overweight.  Just as you would probably boycott advertisements that
    painted conservative men as out-of-control, crazy zealots; or show men
    as being too stupid to wash dishes or prepare a meal.
    
    Advertisers would never show blacks chained together and eating
    watermelon, or make fun of crippled people, it would cause public 
    outrage.  But advertisers discriminate against women who are over 
    dress size 12 every day (the average dress size of women in America 
    is a generous 14) and few people are upset.

    What does Snackwell make? I can't remember any of their commercials,
    probably doesn't help that I "click" around.

Has anyone seen the Foo Fighters video that is a parody of the 
Mentos commercials?

daryll

    FOOTOS!!!!

    
    .30
    
    Oph, I caught the newest one yesterday. The woman (a fox) is dreesed
    to the nines, waiting for her date. The neighbor guy comes in for a cup
    of coffee. The doorbell rings, and her date is there just looking at
    them. The neighbor dude, looked very surprised. I guess their
    relationship is kaput.

    When your life revolves around instant coffee, a tragic end is
    inevitable. It is their destiny.

    
    .35
    
    I thought the first guy was her ex and the second guy was the neighbor.
    
    
    ed

    
    	Oh, what a sad day it is.
    
    	If this were a true "soap opera" type of commercial, the 3 of
    	them could possibly "get together".  Or maybe the date decides
    	to hire an assassin to remove the neighbor from the picture.
    

	Instant coffee roooolzzzzeeeee!!!!!!

    
    .37
    
    Ed you could be correct.

    The only thing worse than instant "coffee" is instant iced "coffee".  

    I drink instant coffee at work. I save about $20 with each jar of
    instant I buy. I've learned to like it.

    There is a commercial for Bermuda with a couple golfing and
    there are quite a few phallic symbols... and then a raised
    eyebrow.  At first when I brought it to the attention of my
    spouse, he said my mind was in the gutter.  When I brought
    it up with a co-worker, he said he and his girlfriend had
    had a good laugh over that commercial for the same reason.
    
    The next commercial I enjoyed was a very busy meeting, where
    a guy is going frantic.  A female (wife/girlfriend/whatever)
    calls.  He answers in a hurry.  Had he seen what she put in
    his briefcase.  We see the back of a Polaroid picture, his
    face drops and he announces he'll be home in ten minutes.
    
    I guess my mind is in the gutter.

    Bumblebee Tuna!

    Oh, yeah, that Bermuda commercial!!!! With the windsock filling up with
    wind, and the guy sinking a put and raising his eyebrow!!! That has
    more innuendo than soapbox!!!!

Wahington state has some great Lotto commercials (they might do the same ones
in other states?) - my favorite:
Shows gentle rain falling, clean pools, leaves & trees, quiet streams, soft
music, voice gently waxing profound about the fressness of rain, the cleasing
and nourishing qualities of rain, etc, and at the end - 
in a very crass voice says "but if ya gotta whole lotta money, you can get
away from it!", with a Learjet screaming away into the sunset.

    Bell have been running Bob Newhart ads for their cell phones here for
    quite a while, every one of them has been very funny.
    
    They have all been done in the true Newhart way.
    
    Er, dear,  you'll never guess who I just met at the store, oh (pause) er
    yes , that was Bill teeing off (pause)  yes it was handy I just happened to
    have my clubs in the car (pause) no the ice cream won't melt, I er
    (pause)  put it in the pond, (pause) I used the potatoes to weigh it down, 
    by the way, did you want those lamb chops for supper, I was a little short 
    and (pause) gave them to the (fading away) greens keeper.
    
    
    joan
     
    

    Yes, I like those too.
    
    The man can use a stutter so effectively.

    Glenn, you're right.
    
    After hearing the first ad, I went looking for some of his stuff on CD,
    I had forgotten how good he was, I found a disc called "Off The Record"
    and it is great.
    No one can put over the same meaning with a few well chosen pauses than
    he can.
    
    
    joan

    Yes, I uh, I see, see see your point.

    perfume, nike, and calvin klein commercials are a waste of air-time.
    throw in the sunny-d, tic tac, carnival cruises, and any ads featuring
    robin letch as well, gag! 
    
     i like the pepsi commercial where the coke guy grabs a can of pepsi
    out of the cooler only to have the entire shelf collapse and all the
    cans fall out. also like the poloroid one of the dog and cat, and the 
    ads for CNBC.   
    i miss the joe isuzu and wendy's "evening vear, very nice" commercials. 

	There is a great CK1 calogne commercial. I put some here, and put some
here.....

	And lets not forget the commercial for that body spray. YUM!

    re: .31
    
     People who take commercials literally have problems. 'Nuff said.

    
    	I personally miss the Levis monster that would go around eating
    levis jeans. {sniff} good things never last...
    
    

     One of my favorites from years back was an AAMCO commercial. This guy
    goes looking for a place to get his transmission rebuilt. Stops at one
    place (the place with no experience), and this tall geeky guy with a
    huge nose says "Let me try boss. I always wanted to try to fix a
    transmission." Of course the customer looks on in horror at the very
    prospect. It was a Sedelmeier (sp), the premier funny commercial
    director. (The same guy that did the 'svim vear. very nice!'
    commercial.)

    i agree with the doctah. it really doesn't matter how stupid a
    commercial is as long as the product fits my needs. 
    
    hey, it's their money. if they wish to pay an ad agency big bucks for
    their efforts, i say have a ball.
    
    mine? i love the break dancing baby in the Edie's commercial.

    The latest Grey Poupon advert is pretty funny, the two snooty
    Rolls-riders, one with a hotdog, the other with a bologna sandwich.
    
    "Is that a weiner you're eating?" 
    "no, it's a frankfurter"  (prononced frahnk-fuh-tuh)
    
    "is that a baloney sandwich"
    "no it's bologna" (pronounced bol-own-ya)
              
    "weiner"
    "baloney"
      

    
    	RE: .51
    
    	Wasn't it a Pepsi guy who took a Coke can off the shelf?
    

    nope. Pepsi is the company employing the "we're so good even the
    workers for the other company drink our stuff" ad campaign. If you
    recall, they also had one with two truck drivers around Christmas (and
    the Pepsi driver refused to relinquish a sip of his Pepsi to the coke
    driver.)
    
    It's a pretty ludicrous set of commercials. Then again, I'm a Coke
    drinker and no amount of clever advertising is going to change that
    (pepsi has done some pretty cool advertisements).

>    the Pepsi driver refused to relinquish a sip of his Pepsi to the coke
>    driver.)

	i think the coke driver refused to give back the pepsi, after
	trading tastes.
	pay attention, dammit. that commmercial cost big buck$!!
	
	;-)

    >	i think the coke driver refused to give back the pepsi, after
    >	trading tastes.
    
     Oh, coulda been.

    I don`t think much of the new Pepsi commercials. 
    
    They should have more scantily clad women,fast cars and explosions
    before I convert from Coca-Cola.
    
    

My favourite:

	"Sometimes life calls for deeper answers" - Compuserve (or is it AOL? )

-Jk

 Real effective commercial, eh?

    Have you noticed that most commercials advertising:
    
    - cleaning products, cooking, etc. use women or female voice overs?
    
    - tool, garden, etc. products use men or male voice overs?
    
    - sports cars elude to men being able to pick up more women?
    
    Actually, I hate commercials. They insult my intelligence. In fact, at
    one time I heard that someone was designing a comercial detector unit
    that you could attach between cable and TV/VCR that would actually
    disable the commercial signal. If such a gadget ever would have
    surfaced I would've bought it immediately.
    
    In fact, I watch very little TV because there are so many d*mn commercials.

    So, you don't like PBS?

>>    So, you don't like PBS?
    
    Since I haven't watched much TV in a long time... I don't really have
    any idea what PBS has to offer, except for Mr Rogers and Sesame Street
    (which my kids watched when they were little)...
    
    Actually I rent movies, or watch ones that I already own, or go to the
    theatres.
    
    Then again...
    
    If there is some program I'm interested in I videotape it so I can FF
    through the commercials.
    

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  \::/ /:/  /   \:\  \        \::/__/       \::/~~/~~~~   \::/__/     
   \/_/:/  /     \:\  \        \:\  \        \:\~~\        \:\  \     
     /:/  /       \:\__\        \:\__\        \:\__\        \:\__\    
     \/__/         \/__/         \/__/         \/__/         \/__/    

| <<< Note 709.68 by BSS::DEVEREAUX >>>


| If there is some program I'm interested in I videotape it so I can FF
| through the commercials.

	What do you do with the Founding Fathers? :-)

    re -1 (Founding Fathers)
    
    That one took me a second, but I finally got it (smirk)

    
    	Michelle, then I'd say you wasted a second that could have been
    	better used in any number of ways.
    

    
    	As an overweight American woman, I love the Snackwell's
    	commercials.
    
        I'm not gonna try to kid myself into thinking I'm overweight
    	because of bad genes.  I eat too much (at least I used to, before
    	I admitted this fact to myself).
    
    	Oh cookie man ...
    
    

    
    
    	karen's a babe. definitely not overweight in my book. 
    
    

    
    	If it weren't for the fact that you're both married, and not
    	to each other, that'd be a good candidate for a "Hoover".
    

    I love those Snackwells commercials too!
    
    I love those Snackwells!!

    
    	sure, you just like to see us fat ladies exploited!
    

    
    	Must be why "The Golden Girls" did so well.
    

    Not true.  One of my very best friends is overweight.  I think the
    commercial is funny...that's why I like it.  It has nothing to do with
    being fat or thin.

    inside every person is a junkque-food-a-holic screaming to be
    indulged...

    i bought my wife (at her request/she's not overweight) some of those
    Snackwells icecream sandwiches. she had one and told me i could have
    the rest. i'm working on the box now, but i won't be buying them again
    anytime soon. bleah.

	I like the Staple's commercial where the woman who runs the supply room
sees everyone's errr.... equipment (pens, thumb tacks, paper, etc) as a price
tag! It had me rolling!

    >	As an overweight American woman, I love the Snackwell's
    >	commercials.
    
     You're just contributing to the exploitative subjugation of fat women
    by those fat cats on Madison avenue buy buying into the notion that 
    caloric consumption has any effect whatsoever on one's mass. 

>>  In fact, at one time I heard that someone was designing a comercial 
>>  detector unit that you could attach between cable and TV/VCR that would 
>>  actually disable the commercial signal. If such a gadget ever would have
>>  surfaced I would've bought it immediately.

	They need a commercial to market this gadget, and you need to watch 
this to know that such a contraption exists -):

WBZ has only commercials during the morning and evening rush hours. .. or so it
appears. 

-Jk

    
    	You're right, Doc.  I keep trying to blame my parents, so
    	I can pretend I was just "born this way", but it's not working!
    
    

	Speaking of WBZ, the tv version has a great set of commercials out.
It's the ones where they ask this guy various questions, and he has absolutely
no clue? Someone asked him about a nickle defense and he said:

	If it only costs 5�, then yeah. Infact, get two! More for your money!



Glen

>>	They need a commercial to market this gadget, and you need to watch 
>>	this to know that such a contraption exists -):
    
    Then again, the ads could be strategically placed in your fav mag (';
    

    .80
    
    Wrong.

    What about infomercials? Isn't it sad to see these washed up
    entertainers like Nell Carter, Dionne Warwick and Evel Knievel hawking
    products?

    
    	Have you ever seen Stephen hawking?
    

    re: .75 et al
    
    I like the Snackwells commercials too, and they don't make me
    feel exploited in the least.  I'm pretty comfortable with who
    I am and what I look like, so I guess I don't worry much about
    whether some company is trying to pander to me or not.  
    
    I like the commercial about the chocolate yogurt and I really
    like their cracked pepper crackers.  However, I've tried their
    cookies and I think they're awful.  I gave one to Red (whose
    normal eating criteria is, "if Mom has it, it must be good.")
    and he tried to bury it.
    
    Mary-Michael

    
    
    	They're toaster pastries (like PopTarts) aren't too bad.
    	I've only tried the Blueberry though.......
    

    
    Who are?
    

    The toaster pastries, that's who.  

    >   <<< Note 709.94 by CONSLT::MCBRIDE "Idleness, the holiday of fools">>>
    
    > The toaster pastries, that's who.
    
    
    ever tried toaster *pasties*?
    
    not bad in the morning..

    Sounds like something Mr. MacBattis would enjoy for b'fast.  

    
    
    	Ack!  Sorry Mz. Deb.  Major typo/bad grammar on my part.
    
    	That should have read:
    
    	THEIR toaster pastries........  meaning Snackwells.
    
    	Eesh.
    

    <- Have a care.  Mark is the Subway vigilante.

    Mark Goetz?

    Snarf

    He goetz a mixed cheese sandwich.

    I hate most carcommercials; I usually do the old surfer thing or mute
    when they come on the screen.

    
    well, thanks to Brian and Colin "quick witted" Walters, I am now
    hungry, and still an hour until lunch.

    one reason why i hate car commercials is the blatant lying and the
    small print...one foreign car advertised a "no-fee" lease, only to find
    out their is an acquisition fee of $1900 due at signing....

    
    	The new Taurus is an ugly car.
    
    	And if you want to replace the factory stereo with an after-
    	market stereo, it appears to be impossible due to the oval
    	shape.
    

I'm with you on that one. The Taurus just lowered the bar in the 
ugly-car limbo...

daryll

    I'd go further than ugly, Shawn.  The thing is hideous.  My son would
    call it fugly.

    I've never been terribly attracted to the taurus, but I like the new
    ones a little better than the older models. This is just from what I've
    seen on TV. I still wouldn't drive one for a kick off.
    
    
    lunchbox

    Ford simply sucks...

    I'm with Lunchbox on this one.  The new Taurus is better looking than
    the old one- at least it has character (the old one looked like
    something you'd put a generic "car" label on).  Of course, the fact
    remains that it is still not a very attractive car.

    
    
    The new Taurus is ugly as sin...
    
    From the back, it looks like a giant set of bug-eyes...
    

 I've come to like the new one myself.





 Jim

    I think it looks pretty decent.

    I like the Taurus.  Somewhat reminiscent of the curves of the older
    Jags.

    I think the new Dodge trucks, with the fugly front end, are quite ugly. 
    Much moreso than the Taurus (which I still think is better looking than the
    bland car it was previously).

I REALLY like the Dodge trucks...

Go figure.

daryll

 I like just about all of the Chrysler built products.




 Jim

    
    when in doubt, buy Chevy.

Me too Jim. Have always owned Mopars.

daryll

    never drove a moped...thot that was the lazy man's way of biking...

    
    Ron, Mopar, Chrysler's part division. hth

    The new Taurus is ugly but not as ugly as the first hideous rendtition
    of the redesigned Caprice Classic.  The new Taurus is not all that far
    a departure from the Aurora (ugly) Infinity I30 (Ugly) etc.  

    
    
    	Looks like an elongated Neon.
    

 Agree on the Caprice...they really blew it with that one.




 Jim

    
    	I like the Aurora, but don't like the Taurus.  The Aurora is
    	sleek, while the Taurus is just ugly.
    
    	And I also like the recent Dodge trucks.
    
    	1 of my favorites of the last 10 years has to be the Olds
    	Toronado Trofeo, '90-'91 or so ... based on the Toronado,
    	but has a couple gorgeous features of its own.
    

>         <<< Note 709.108 by SMURF::BINDER "Uva uvam vivendo variat" >>>
>
>    I'd go further than ugly, Shawn.  The thing is hideous.  My son would
>    call it fugly.

Do all the Binders have a way with words?

>    I'm with Lunchbox on this one.  The new Taurus is better looking than
>    the old one- at least it has character (the old one looked like
>    something you'd put a generic "car" label on).

The old Taurus set the standard for egg shaped cars.  Practically every
American car has followed suit, thus making the Taurus look generic.

    The new Chevy Blazer/GMC Jimmy sucks too

    
    	But Mark, the Syclone/Typhoon line was aimed at the portion
    	of the market that wanted a truck with car-like performance.
    
    	Of course, stuffing a Grand National engine into an S-10
    	and charging $20K+ for it seemed to turn off quite a few
    	people.
    

    The new Dodge trucks are beautiful.  They're trying to copy my
    truck, an original 1946 Dodge pickup, don't cha know.
    
    -Vin

    
    "Want to drive a truck as fast as a laser?"
    "Better buy that Chevy Blazer"

    .120
    
    > when in doubt, buy Chevy.
    
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! >gasp<
    
    I'd buy a Hyundai before I'd buy a Chevy.  And Satan will be seen ice
    skating to work before I'll buy a Hyundai.

    .128
    
    Indubitably.

    Pillow cars, we have become a nation of pillow-shaped cars.
    Every car on the road now looks like a Toyota.
    
    I want a car that handles well, doesn't fall apart at 60,000
    miles, and that I can look at and say,
    		"Hey, that's a nice looking car."
    
    It would appear this does not exist in my price range.  The
    only car I've seen that elicited the aforementined response
    was a top of the line Jag, which is a bit more than I can
    afford.
    
    
    
    
    

    
    	You've got a point there, MM ... as a matter of fact, the car
    	I'm driving today looks like a Toyota.
    
    	Oops, silly me ... it's a Supra.  No wonder it looks like a
    	Toyota!!
    
    
    	Anyways, how much do you want to spend?  We can help you out,
    	I think.
    

    .137
    
    Pillow cars are a result of automakers' decision that it's better to
    restyle the sheetmetal than to enhance the efficiency of the engine
    (or, if necessary, use a better engine architecture).
    
    The pillows have a far lower coefficient of drag than nonpillows and
    hence increase mileage.  The VW Rabbit had a Cd of 0.45, meaning its
    wind resistance was the same as that of a flat sheet of plywood with
    0.45 times its frontal area.  Amusingly enough, the 1968-1981 Corvette
    also had a Cd of 0.45.  My '89 CRX Si has a Cd of 0.30.  Today's
    pillows have even lower numbers.  A few years ago, Pininfarina designed
    a workable car with a Cd of 0.17.  It looked like a lemon on wheels.

    Jag?  60,000 miles without falling apart?  Not in this century.  Forget
    about the payments, the maintenance would be worse.  

    
    the heartbeat of America.......

    .135 I own a Hyundai.  They're not so bad.

    That's a ringing endorsement. :-)

    It's a '93 Elantra, fully loaded.  Very nice little car indeed.

    
    "Want to avoid that levy?"
    "Then buy that Chevy"

    dry humour.

	"I am bored today.
		Today, I am feeled weeth bore dum."
	"Zee booz war beez nees men, wait for their package.
			They can wait."

    I have a Toyota Corolla All-Trak wagon with 99,000 miles on it.
    Now, granted it's still a baby, however, in true Toyota tradition
    it will rust out before it wears out :-) and it is well underway.
    I would buy another except for the fact that
    	a.) Mr. SO finds it extremely uncomfortable;
        b.) Mr. SO wants so many options on it, that it is no 
            longer affordable.
        c.) They no longer make it (the really big sticking point).
    Now, the above lends itself to an explanation of Mr. SO's and
    my tastes in vehicles.  I like basic transportation.  No options,
    no fancy do-dads, don't care about the color.  I want it to start
    when I turn the key and keep starting for about 100,000 miles.
    Mr. SO, on the other hand, wants to turn the car into a dang
    living room.  A car's a rotten investment to begin with, why
    bother with all the gadgets to up the price? Now, since I've
    pretty much resigned myself to this "upscape" (IMO) purchase,
    I want some style.  I don't want a pillow car.  I want some
    pep for my pennies, style for my silver dollars, well you 
    get the picture. About 25K is the horribly overinflated
    figure.  Now, if it was just me, you could pop me into a
    Toyota Tercel (AM radio only if you please, standard transmission)
    and I'd be happy as a calm for 5 or 6 years, although my
    passengers would probably be uncomfortable.  But NOOOO,
    we can't do that.  So, given that, here's what I've come up
    with:
    
    Acceptable:
    
    Toyota Celica (yes, it's a pillow car, but at least it looks more
                   like a neck roll)
    Geo Prizm
    Oldsmobile LSS
    Oldsmobile 98
    Chrylser Sebring Convertible
    Chevy Impala
    Mazda MX-6
    Maxda 626
    Volkswagon Cabriolet convertible
    
    Anything else?
    
      
    
    

    re: .148
    
    Let me see if I understand this.  You want something with reasonable
    acceleration that doesn't look like a pillow and costs < $25K?
    
    How many people should this vehicle be able to carry in comfort?  How
    much cargo area do you want?  Do you plan on towing anything with it?
    How important is gas mileage?
    
    Bob

    I HATE my Ford -- a definited "piece"...

    
    I love my Isuzu Rodeo.
    

    Volkswagon Cabriolet Convertible.

    re: .149
    
    4 people.  No cargo requirement, I also own a Ford F250 with
    a 8 foot bed.  If I'm hauling cargo, I know what to use :-).
    The ability to fit a couple of weekend sized suitcases in the
    truck would about do it.  17-25 mpg, towing package (mostly
    for the heavy duty suspension and cooling system provided,
    we do a lot of mountain driving).
    
    
    

    For me, two people and their luggage for a 3-week trip.  I want it
    capable of 120+ MPH, I want it to handle well, and I want 40 MPG at an
    average sustained highway speed of 70 MPH.  No towing.

    My Nissan Maxima is sort of soft looking, but it does deliver "pep for
    my pennies."
    
    The last thing I wanted was a 4-door, tastefully claret coloured family
    car. However, a two-seater in a truly in-your-face colour was not
    practical for three people and Evan's car-seat didn't work with the
    passenger seats to boot.
    
    My list of requirements became: 5-speed manual, A/C, rear-window
    defogger, a decent [not phenom] radio with tape player [long commute],
    and something that moves _when_ I punch the gas [not some dithering
    automatic slippy-thang]. I paid something around $20K [it had other
    stuff and the impending interest rate hike made it worth my while to
    act rather than order]
    
    Is it my dream car? Oh, no. [I dream of a seriously black-wing-of-death
    two-seater that I can drive around in alone thank-you-very-much] But it
    works for me. I don't feel that I've "settled"
    
      Annie

    
    	RE: MM
    
    	Well, it looks like you'll be spending around $20K, give or
    	take a few:
    
    	Mopar Intrepid/Concorde
    	Toyota Camry coupe
    

>         <<< Note 709.154 by SMURF::BINDER "Uva uvam vivendo variat" >>>


>  I want it capable of 120+ MPH

	 In case you accidentally find yourself on the set of the next
	 "Die Hard" movie, or what?

Take the Sebring in a hearbeat.

I rented a ragtop in Florida last month and this is a well 
designed, beautiful car. I haven't read a bad thing about it 
anywhere.

daryll

    re: .153
    
    Well you mentioned the MX-6, what about the Ford Probe? (Although I
    doubt either will carry 4 people in much comfort)  Honda Accord?  Acura
    Integra 4-door?  Isuzu Trooper?  Infiniti G20t?  Volvo 800 series?
    VW Passat?
    
    Bob

    The new Supras are nice.

    
    	As well as unaffordable to almost anyone who doesn't sell drugs
    	for a living.
    
    	8^)
    

    .157
    
    > In case you accidentally find yourself on the set of the next
    > "Die Hard" movie, or what?
    
    Because I am a very immature little boy, and the thrill of speed (even
    the potential thereof) is more exciting than the scent of a woman.
    
    I would like to qualify that by pointing out that the "a woman" I have
    in mind has a scent that might be attractive to a rhinoceros.  Or then
    again, it might not.

    re: .155
    
    Annie, I didn't mention the Maxima because I figured it was too
    pillow-like for her tastes.  I will agree 100% with your analysis of
    the Maxima, especially the SE version.
    
    Bob

    re: .157
    
    Lady DI, two of the last three cars I've had have been capable of 120+
    MPH.  The Z was more stable at those speeds, but the MX-6 is quicker. 
    Most non-economy and non-chip-limited cars these days can do it.
    
    Bob

    re: .158
    
    It's not quick enough, but does look nice.
    
    Bob

    
    	Convertibles are heavy, and if my guess is correct they use
    	the 2.5L V6 ... which, IMO, is underpowered for a car of
    	that size.
    
    	Even my little Duster has the 3.0 V6.
    

>   <<< Note 709.164 by ROWLET::AINSLEY "DCU Board of Directors Candidate" >>>

	Yes, but my question was why does one want that capability?
	Does a car that has the potential to go over 120 perform better
	at lower speeds than a car that can't?  I don't know this stuff.
	I was just curious if there was a _real_ reason and not just the
	thrill of having the potential.  

Quick getaways.  HTH.

    
    	RE: Diane
    
    	That's not always the case, since most cars today are capable
    	of 120+ anyways ... but there's a good chance that a car that's
    	capable of 150MPH is also faster in 0-60 times than a car that
    	can only do 120MPH.
    
    	Speed limiters were mentioned, I believe, and this would be an
    	exception.  The Grand National was factory-limited to 125MPH
    	but was 1 of the fastest-accelerating production cars available
    	at the time.
    

 I'd like the Porsche 911 I saw driving south on 93 yesterday, with
 NH plates IXXI..


 Thank you.



 Jim

    
    	I wonder what that means ... "99"?  As in restaurant?
    
    	The top-of-the-line Porsche 911 goes for about $110K.
    

    
    	Oh, hmmm ... maybe it means "911".
    
    	Just a guess.  8^)
    

    
>    	The top-of-the-line Porsche 911 goes for about $110K.
 

        Yep..first thing I'd do if I won the lottery (which I don't play)
        would be to go to the nearest Porsche dealer and pick one up.




 Jim   

I can't understand people who buy cars for house prices.  OK, not New England
houses, but Midwest houses.

    .167
    
    Typically, a car that is designed to be driveable at high speed is
    likely to be more driveable at lower speeds than a car that wasn't
    designed for the higher speeds.  The logic is that if it has to go
    120+, it has to handle well.  Which means its handling has to be
    designed with more care than the handling of a car that won't make 85
    going downhill with a tailwind.  My experience with my CRX Si confirms
    this - I've compared it against other cars of similar size, weight, and
    power, and found it snappier and more positive than the others seemed
    to be.

    I've just finished a couple of weeks worth of "car research" (mostly
    on the Web and AOL, which was more fun and informative than the old
    fashioned way), so maybe I can help, at least with American cars.
    
    If you want to spend $18-20K, wait a few months and check out the
    all-new (new design, etc.) Pontiac Grand Prix and its other GM
    "cousins" (Chevy Malibu, etc.).  A real fist-biter; beautiful, and
    has a 3.8L V-6 as well as lots of other improvements.  I'll see if
    I can dredge up the web site for it if anyone's interested.
    
    If you want to spend $16-18K, check out the Ford Contour SE (the "SE"
    being the operative part of this), with the 2.5L Duratec engine.  You
    can load it up, and still stay within a reasonable price.
    
    BTW, I like the looks of the new Taurus (the older models were boring).
    Lots of us like the "giant bug-eyed monster" rear appearance, having
    been raised on TV shows featuring such creatures.  And from the front,
    the new Taurus looks like something that crawled out of the lake on
    its flippers.  Cool.  :-)  The only reason I didn't buy one was that
    I decided to wait for the Grand Prix, and I inherited my wife's old
    car instead, for now.
    
    Chris

    
    	Binder, the CRX weighs about 47.2 pounds ... of course it's
    	going to be fast.
    

GM, Chris?  They don't seem to be able to do anything right (except maybe
the Saturn).  I can't understand why they're still the #1 domestic maker.

    
    >>>If you want to spend $16-18K, check out the Ford Contour SE (the
    "SE" being the operative part of this), with the 2.5L Duratec engine. 
    You can load it up, and still stay within a reasonable price.
    
    
      Or you can spend 15K and buy a fully loaded Contour GL with a 5sp
    and the V6 like I drive. It doesn't have all of the plastic wings
    and things of the SE but it just as quick.
    
    -mike
    

    Does anyone else here think the Ford stylists consciously modeled the
    lines of the Contour on those of the classic '49 Ford?  The rounded
    windows, the horizontal taillights, the grille-less opening with a
    "bullet" in the middle...

    
    .174
    
    Gerald, you can't find a house in the midwest for $110,00 unless you go
    downstate. 
    
    oh, BP can afford one I would think.

    I though the sheet metal was designed in Yoorp as the Mondeo "world
    car"? The influence seems more from previous Eurofords like the XR
    series.                            

    I like the Pontiac Grand Am. V6
    
    Lots of power yet great fuel economy.
    
    Goes like snot!

> GM, Chris?  They don't seem to be able to do anything right (except maybe
> the Saturn).  I can't understand why they're still the #1 domestic maker.
    
    I know, and I've been burned in the past.  But... but... check out this:
    
    http://www.autosource-usa.com/idchmpg/showroom/pontiac/granpri1.htm
    
    I drove the '96 GP, and it was okay, but definitely needed more "punch"
    than the 3.1L V-6.  This '97 would seem to be a big improvement, but
    as with all models, you might want to avoid buying the first year of
    a new model.  I also have no idea how much this one will cost; the '96s
    were $18-20K, and the '97s may be higher.
    
    
    re: Contour GL with 5sp and 6-cyl.
    
    That's fine, you get the engine and other stuff you want without
    paying for extra unwanted doo-dads in the SE.  The engine/trans
    is the main thing to go for in that model; if you can find it as
    an option in the GL as you did, great stuff.
    
    Chris

    
    I like the Chevy Blazer. Have you noticed?

Mark, the Midwest consists of more than just Chicago.  F'rinstance, my
in-laws live in the Detroit 'burbs.  Their house is worth maybe $90K.
They have considerably more space inside and out than I do in my $200K+
house.

    what's that, about $127.00 Canadian?

Hey!  Hey!

>  <<< Note 709.186 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>

>Mark, the Midwest consists of more than just Chicago.

  what?  when did _this_ happen?  

    .182
    
    Well, based on the average age of cars I've seen in Yoorp, the '49 Ford
    would be readily available to serve as inspiration for all those
    Eurofords.

    >POLAR::RICHARDSON "A one shake man"
    
    >Goes like snot!
    
    
    What an...attractive thought 8^|.
    
    

The new Nike soccer commerial is, literally, one hell of a commercial.

    There is also the rumored to be coming soon Contour SVT which may be a
    somewhat lackluster replacement for the SHO.  The SVT is supposed to
    sprt a high powered version of the duratec engine @about 190hp.  Mated
    to a 5 spd. trans., it could be quite a nice little pocket rocket for
    short money.  The new SHO will have a V-8 and a $31K price tag with
    which you cannot get a stick any longer.  Bonus, four doors and a
    useable trunk.  

    .193
    
    The Countour is not a pocket rocket no matter how hot it is.  It is a
    large car.  Not as huge a land yacht as the Caprice Classic, true, but
    still a large car.

    I like those horses playing football.
    -ss

    mmmmm football.
    

    Contour?  Large?  I Don't think so.  Compared to your CRX I guess it
    might be.  It's only a compact though.  

    re: .194
    
    Do you mean the Ford Contour?  It's smaller than a Taurus... I'd say
    it's smaller than a Camry, or roughly equal in size maybe.
    
    Are you thinking of a Crown Victoria maybe?
    
    Chris

    
    	$31K for the new SHO?  I thought $21K was bad enough.
    
    	Not that it isn't a nice car, because I wouldn't mind owning 1
    	[even if it does have 2 too many doors] ... but not for $31K,
    	and NOT based on the new Taurus.
    

    $31K, no 5spd, and little to distinguish it from the more pedestrian
    versions other than the V8.  It is supposedly being marketed as an
    executive express vehicle.  I expect the demise of the SHO to be
    shortly forthcoming.  

    .197
    
    How long is the Contour?  I'll bet it's more than 3 feet longer than my
    CRX, which means it's probably more than 2 feet longer than my wife's
    Civic, and probably more than 1 foot longer than Colin Walters' Accord. 
    Sorry, gang, that's a big car.  But then I do tend to prefer cars that
    don't require a football pitch for a parking spot.

    Contour:  length 183.9, width 69.1, height 54.5, weight 2769.
    CRX:      length 147.8, width 65.7, height 50.0, weight 1819.
    
    Chris

    
    	That Binder's a wise guy, isn't he?
    
    	Looks like the Contour IS more than 3' longer than the CRX ...
    	it's exactly 36.1" longer, or 3.008'.  8^)
    

    Can a contour have a length??  :)

    I miss the days when you could tell cars apart. Now the only things
    that seem to differentiate them are the head/tail lights...
    
    I do still like the Ford F-series, but they're a bit out of the range
    of my pocket book.
    
    Oh, and the person who made the comment about more women wanting trucks
    and this being one of the reasons that they're becoming more
    contoured...  Well, I've owned a truck, or similar most of my adult
    life and I definitely do not like the new contoured look. The
    Jimmy/Blazer look more like a mini van than they do a truck. That's why
    I'll probably be going for a Pathfinder in the next coupla years, at
    least they still look like trucks. For now, though I'll stick with my
    Nissan (first foreign vehicle I've ever bought, obviously not the
    last).

    
    you mean _Chicago_ isn't the whole Midwest??? 
    
    wow. I did not know this.

    <-- Came as quite a shock to me as well.
    
    
    Mike
    

    disgusting commercial:
    
    {insert 8 year old female voice}
    
    
    "I feel *SAFE* 'cos my daddy gets his oil changed at Grease Monkey"
    
    ?SAFE? 'cos I get my oil changed at GREASE MONKEY?
    
    what the hell kinda cr*p is this?
    

Daddy gets his oil changed?  Izzat like getting his ashes hauled?

    > Daddy gets his oil changed?  Izzat like getting his ashes hauled?
    
    Nah, I think Daddy gets his ashes changed?
    
    

	The latest Jordan's Furniture commercial where they do the takeoff on
the Dick Van Dyke Show. It is too funny for words! I find either I really like
their commercials, or they annoy me to no end. This one makes it into the
really like catagory. :-)


Glen

    re: Jordan's furniture ad
    
    Pretty good... it certainly beats the one where we watched them
    pretend to be sleeping for thirty seconds.
    
    Chris

    I saw a great commercial this past weekend.  I don't remeber the
    product though so from that standpoint I guess it wasn't too great.  A
    fly is caught in a spider's web and gets eaten.  The caption under the
    fly is 	
    			[Second place, Food chain]
    
    I thought it was pretty funny.

    There is an ad running up here that shows people in a lab making some
    kind of formular, pouring it onto running shoes and testing them,
    then two bad guys arrive, grab the formular and take off on a
    motorbike, one of the lab workers puts on a pair of running shoes and
    takes of in hot pursuit, catches up to the bike and makes a leap.
    The add ends with just the running shoes showing and the name Puma down
    in the corner.
    
    There is also a local radio station using Herb from WKRP, white shoes
    and belt and very loud jacket. So far he has suggested filling the Sky
    dome with jello and having 98 listeners jump from the CN tower into it.
    
    
    joan
    
     

    formular?

    Where the devil did that R come from?
    
    Yes teacher, I shall now write a hundred times
    
    I shall not post notes until I have read them over :-)
    
    
    
    joan

    
    
>    Where the devil did that R come from?
    
    	Boston accent...
    
    

I kinda liked the grizzly bears doing the P-EP-S-I (sorta like Y-M-C-A),
even though the product advertised is third rate sweetened bilge water.

    
    speaking of at&t commercials, i like the one where the two teens get
    home from a date and go right to their computers and write back and
    forth to each other.  

    I love that one! And the Bears...
    
    And the ATT one where Moms on her way to work,,,,
    and she says you have 5 mins to get ready for the beach,,,,

> I kinda liked the grizzly bears doing the P-EP-S-I (sorta like Y-M-C-A),
> even though the product advertised is third rate sweetened bilge water.

There's few sodas I actually LIKE drinking anymore - Adirondack cola is one.
Coke and Pepsi taste like fizzy sugar water compared to this.

    I like the new Anderson Door commercial, where the ocean is rising
    outside and the cat is on the inside watching the fish...
    
    

    Adirondack is now wholly owned by Polar fwiw.  Polar is slightly less
    offensive than bilge scum, slightly.  IMO of course.

    
    I like Polar Seltzer.
    

  pass the mouthwash

  bb

    
    
    	re: .228
    
    	Yeah, I get a kick outta that one too.  =)