Conference back40::soapbox

    
    
    There was a good 48 hours on last evening.  All about ER's.
    
    
    
    Mike

    My single consession to the endless sit-com drivel is the odd Home
    Improvements episode.  I admit to being a Northern Exposure viewer too.  
    Beyond that I usually end up watching specials on the Bushmen of the 
    Kalahari or some such on one of the alternative channels.  My only 
    concessions to sports T.V. are the rare sailing shows like the ESPN 
    Whitbread recap or skiing.  I was ecstatic over the news that the
    baseball and hockey seasons got tanked and escaped unscathed by the
    football season.  Beyond that it's the QVC channel and the Home Shopping 
    Club for me.  Can't get enough faux nugget bracelets and fashion
    watches you know.   
    
    Brian 
    

    The Bud Abbot(t) and Lou Costello show....whooops...wrong decade!!!

    the Twighlight Zone Marathon last Saturday...

    Coming attractions:
    
    A special on The Making of Star Trek: Voyager will be on Saturday
    evening in the Boston area on channel 38 (will probably vary in
    other areas), around 6:00 PM or so (check listings; I don't have
    any here with me).  Comment:  I'd rather see a "The Making of..."
    show after I've actually seen the show, but what the heck.  As for
    the series, I don't have much hope, given DS9.  They'll probably
    soon wish they'd continued on with TNG.
    
    A new "Get Smart" series is about to premiere on Fox, I believe this
    Sunday at 7:30 PM.  Max and 99 are back, but now Max is Chief of
    Control, 99 is a congresscritter, and their son Zack is the bumbling
    Control agent, helped by a Madonna-like Agent 66.  See next week's
    TV Guide for a feature story.  Comment:  Remember "The New Munsters".
    These things *never* work.  And the better the original show was, the
    worse the new version is.  Also remember "The New WKRP in Cincinnati",
    alas, and many other such mistakes.
    
    Chris

    re: the new Get Smart
    
     The previews portend a show that's even stupider than the original if
    that's possible. 
    
     Then again, some people are actually paying money to see Dumb and
    Dumber, so PT Barnum's point is made yet again.

Does Mel Brooks have any connection with the new Get Smart?

    
    You know what I've wondered?
    
    How come there are no shoe-phones on the market?
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    
    
    Actually I think Sports illustrated offered a show phone (actually a
    tennis shoe phone) if you ordered a subscription from them.  My guess
    is that Control ordered too many and sold them to SI for a song.
    
    
    
    Mike

    could one of youze guys over there somehow get me a SI swimwear 95
    calendar ?
    
    be v grateful
    
    i'm in Winnersh, UK
    
    ric

    
    
    My husband and I really enjoy the X-Files on Friday nights.
    
    And I've been finding myself watching The Learning Channel
    more and more.

    PBS New Hampshire, Tuesday nights:  One Foot in the Grave. 
    Great watching!

    re: Get Smart and Mel Brooks
    
    I don't think Mel Brooks is involved at all, but I recall seeing
    that Leonard Stern is some kind of "consultant" (Stern was one
    of the creators/producers/writers/whatever, as well as being a
    publisher of comedy books like "Mad Libs").  Being a "consultant"
    probably means that he scans the script, offers a joke line or two,
    and picks up a six-figure check on his way out to the car.
    
    Chris

    One foot in the grave,eh? "I DO NOT believe IT!" Yes,Victor Meldrew etc
    isn`t too bad. Mind you,I have to pay 85 quid a year for BBC 1 and 2,
    and I barely watch either channel. It`s the Law,i`m afraid.
    
    Only things I make sure I watch are The Sweeny,Minder,Premier League
    football on a Monday night and tape Cheers on a Friday night.
    
    

    In the imortal words of Bruce Springstein(sp)... '57 channels and
    nothin on.... 57 channels and nothin on..! :)

    Sports...particularly college hoops and pro-football.
    
    You can keep the rest of the crapola on the tube (except The Tick, on
    Sat. morning tv  8^) ).  If I could *just* buy ESPN, rather than the
    whole lot of useless channels in the package, I'd drop cable
    altogether.
    
    (The Tick comes on a local station.  8^) )
    
    -steve

    if I remember the credits correctly Mel Brooks did produce (or
    something) Get Smart.
    
    Chip

 I think Mel Brooks was involved in the early shows..also Buck Henry did
 a lot of the writing.




Jim

    
    Why am I not surprised that "bugman" likes a show named "The Tick".

	11:00 pm Friday nights, PBS NH channel 11, Dr. Who. 

    re: Mel Brooks
    
    Do you mean the early episodes of the new series, or the "early
    shows" as in the original series?  I knew he was co-creator and/or
    producer/writer for the original show, but I didn't think he was
    involved in the new series about to premiere...
    
    Buck Henry... now there's a funny guy, too.  Has he done anything
    much in the last ten years?  What happens to these people?  They
    just seem to fade away after a while.  Are they burned out, or just
    satisfied with whatever money they've got?...
    
    Chris

    
    where brooks is concerned, i think he's become mostly unfunny.  satire
    doesn't seem to be as popular as it used to be.  now why is that?  is
    the writing so bad?  has the politization of our culture contributed?
    
    how long has it been since a really funny movie has been made?  i think
    Mrs. Doubtfire is one but until that was released the last one i saw
    was "Murder by Death" (maybe my all time favorite comedy).
    
    jeff

    Ace Venture Pet Detective was a really funny movie. I had to buy it as
    soon as it came out on video.

RE:    <<< Note 232.22 by DECWIN::RALTO "Suffering from p/n writer's block" >>>
                        -< Brooks in the new show too? >-

       
   > Do you mean the early episodes of the new series, or the "early
   > shows" as in the original series?  I knew he was co-creator and/or
   > producer/writer for the original show, but I didn't think he was
   > involved in the new series about to premiere...
    

      Original series..I don't think he was involved in the last
      few years of the series.




    >Buck Henry... now there's a funny guy, too.  Has he done anything
    >much in the last ten years?  What happens to these people?  They
    >just seem to fade away after a while.  Are they burned out, or just
    >satisfied with whatever money they've got?...
    
    

    I don't know what he's been doing.  Last time I saw him on anything
    was about 3-4 years ago



 Jim

    
    you're kidding glenn.
    
    jeff

    Glenn isn't kidding, he never kids around.
    
    How about dinner and dancing later?
    
    Dierdre

One of my dreams is that for the last episode of _Murder, She Wrote_,
Jessica Fletcher gets convicted of all those murders she helped to "solve"
and gets sent to jail as America's worst serial killer.

Now on the premiere episode of _Cybill_, at the end they show a fake outtake
of _Hart to Hart_ with Robert Wagner and Stephanie Powers (with Cybill Sheperd
as the dead body).  The dialogue went something like:

RW:		I assume we are free to go now.
Police Lt.	Of course not, you're the prime suspsects.  Dead bodies show
		up whereever you go.

    I don't know how many channels I have (call it n) but it really
    doesn't matter as I don't watch it anyway. In November I added
    Sportschannel with the hope of viewing some Celtics games...
    but time being what it is I now have n+1 channels that I don't
    watch. I don't make a conscious effort to avoid television, I
    never have the time. When I do make the time, I'm consistently
    disappointed. There simply is _no_ point.
    
    I try to catch a bit of news once in a while and that is where
    the biggest disappointment lies. TV news has been crap for as
    long as I can remember, but now that magazine shows (Hard Copy,
    Current Affair) have set a new standard for rubbish, TV news has
    gone further down the loo. Last night, I got home from a business
    meeting at 11:00PM. Plunked down to watch the news; first story
    is about a fire and some reporter is shoving a microphone into a
    woman's face as they carry her on a stretcher to an ambulance.
    That the news people think there's nothing at all wrong with such
    a picture is a testiment to just how depraved you have to be to
    work in that business. Click. Spent the rest of the evening
    studying the committee draft for the MHEG standard. Not quite
    as brain dead.
    
    I can't stomach the thought of watching Oprah or Donahue or
    the like either. And I don't. Yes, there's sick, creepy and
    just plain disgusting people in this world. I really don't
    need to look in on them to feel better. In fact, I feel better
    never looking in on them. Oprah, Donahue et al are beneath
    contempt. The worst form of contempt you can show for such
    hucksters is to completely ignore them, which is what I do.
    
    Connie Chung... how can you blame her? She's been well
    conditioned that to make it in the "man's world" you need to
    act like "one of the boys." In her business that means she
    has to behave in a despicable manner and treat people like
    playthings.
    
    Sitcoms... there's some good ones I'm sure. But time is too
    limited to sort the wheat from the chaffe so I don't watch
    any of them and don't feel any great sense of loss either.
    Same goes for anything else TV serves up. All my friends
    keep telling me "you _have_ to watch X files!!" No I don't.
    Honest.
    
    About the only TV I've made an effort for lately was the
    "Pythonathon" on Comedy Central. Now _that_ was good
    television, although I didn't record any of it because
    editing out the commercials was too much bother... besides,
    I already have most of the Monty Python series on tape
    and all of the movies too. I did catch some rare stuff
    (like the made for German TV episode).
    
    Mtv is sometimes interesting (the 120 minutes show and
    alternative nation), I like Beevis and Butthead (although
    I don't go out of my way to catch them), and Kurt and
    Tabatha are such unabashed communists that it's kind of
    fun to watch their goose stepping antics.
    
    Warner Bros (post war) cartoons are always a treat although
    I hate the way they hack them up for the Saturday cartoon
    shows.
    
    -b

    
    The NFL playoffs , Saturday should be very good indeed as the Browns
    advance to the AFC championship.

    
>>    Connie Chung... how can you blame her? She's been well
>>    conditioned that to make it in the "man's world" you need to
>>    act like "one of the boys." In her business that means she
>>    has to behave in a despicable manner and treat people like
>>    playthings.

	nonsense.  she eats that stuff up.

    I think she's in competition with her husband to see who can get the
    juiciest morsel out of people, regardless of cost.

    
    
    Don't get the chance to watch too much tv.
    Don't have cable either.
    
    But I am a big fan of the nature and history shows on PBS.
    And for some reason, any show narrated by David McCullough (sp?)
    usually gets my attentions, like the American Experience.
    
    I do try to watch Home Improvement and Seinfeld. Can always use
    a good laugh. 
    
    Seems the news magazine shows like 20/20, Prime Time, Dateline etc
    end up covering the same stories at different times.
    
    							Hank

    
    chinese women are like that, you know.
    
    jeff

    Law & Order
    Earth 2
    seaQuest DSV
    Lois & Clark
    Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
    Silk Stalkings

    Gee, I like star trek TNG, and DSN and I'm looking forward to ST
    Voyager. And you know, the Canadian produced TEKWAR series ain't that
    bad. There's a lot of good talent up here.

    Glenn

 Seinfeld

 MST3K when I remember to watch..




 Jim

    .31
    It seems that somepeople don`t follow football to seriously. They
    should show up at 3 rivers, unpack, view the town, pack and just go
    home.
    

	.39
	
	agreed!

                      <<< Note 232.35 by USAT05::BENSON >>>

    
    >chinese women are like that, you know.
    
    No, I don't know....care to explain?
    
    Mark.

    sports, cooking shows, nature shows, NYPD Blue, C-SPAN, TLC, Discovery,
    comedy, anything with David Attenborough, National Geographic Explorer.

	I here chinese women are better.............%^)

    E.R. , I like it.

 I also like cooking shows (what ever happened to Justin Wilson, btw?)
 and nature related stuff.




Jim

    
    Thanks for the reminder on the cooking shows....
    
    I actually enjoy em.  I remember watching shows like
    the Great Chefs of San Francisco or New Orleans and being mesmerized,
    
    
    							Hank

    
    
    
       How many folks remember "Outer Limits". That was t.v.
    
       "One Step Beyond",....."Thriller",....."Way Out",...."Twilight
       Zone",....I'll take them any day.
    
       Classic "Twilight Zone" episodes,....."On Thursday we leave for
       Home",......and "How to serve Man".
    
    
       Ed
    

    Ahhhh, Justin Wilson.  Now there was a classic good old fashioned
    havin' a good time cooking show.  Yassir, jes set yo sef down rat heah
    and have a mess o' dat dirty rice.  Some good cookin' fo sho I'll tell
    you dat fo free I will also too. 
    
    Brian

>    Ahhhh, Justin Wilson.  Now there was a classic good old fashioned
>    havin' a good time cooking show.  Yassir, jes set yo sef down rat heah
>    and have a mess o' dat dirty rice.  Some good cookin' fo sho I'll tell
>    you dat fo free I will also too. 
    
 

 I loved the way he'd measure stuff out in the palm of his hand, and say
 Now, that there is a teaspoon, I garontee (misspell intentional..jh) then
 toss it in the pot..then he'd say "Oh, don't believe me?" then measure it
 out in a spoon...he musta done that 10000 times and folks would still
 laugh and clap and he'd wink..



Jim

    
   >>    How many folks remember "Outer Limits". 

	<raises hand, elbow creaks a bit>

    RE: cooking shows
    
    What about the old Graham Kerr, before he became a born-again veggie
    freak? Lessee... a slosh of booze in the pan, a slosh down the gullet,
    another slosh of booze in the pan, another slosh of booze down the
    gullet... add chicken and slosh some more.
    
    -b

	Had to wipe away a few combwebs, but there it was...

	Great show......X-Files does well......

    
    
    
    Only thing about the cooking shows is that I end up very hungry after
    watching them. :')
    

    re: Graham Kerr AKA The Galloping Gourmet.  He has changed his ways and
    is into low fat cooking these days.  I don't think he's sloshing as
    much either.  Good entertainment in a cooking show though.  I also
    enjoy the Frugal Gourmet and Jacques Pepin.  
    
    Brian

    Yes, I remember the Outer Limits also. Any one rember Yancy Darringer?

 I like Frugal Gourmet, though not as much as I used to..guess I got
 tired of all the "wonderfuls", etc..


 I always wonder what they did with all that stuff they cook up..



Jim

    >>   How many folks remember "Outer Limits". That was t.v.
    
    "The Outer Limits" was some of the best TV produced in the 1960's...
    I wish I could point you to the old (deleted) TV conference, where
    many of us rambled on for pages about those good old episodes.
    
    Turner owns "The Outer Limits" now, and once in a while you'll see a
    marathon pop up on TNT or TBS if you have cable.  When they do it, it's
    usually on through Saturday night (into Sunday morning) as part of
    their "Monstervision" thing or whatever they call it.
    
    All of the episodes are also available on video.  If you have a
    Suncoast video store near you, I've seen most of them there at
    one time or another.
    
    One of the pay-cable channels (Showtime?) had been planning to
    do a new "Outer Limits" series, with new producers and writers.
    I remain highly skeptical that they can attain the quality of
    the original.  (And I even got through that sentence without a
    single R.O.! :-))
    
    Chris

re: Cooking shows

I agree that Graham Kerr used to be enjoyable as a devil-may-care sot.
As a healthy-is-happy cook, I've found him boring. But, then again, I
usually turn off "Laurie Cooks Light", as well. I enjoy Jeff Smith
and miss Justin Wilson. I still enjoy the classic grand lady of TV
cookery, Julia Child, as well. The Urban Peasant is OK sometimes, but
rather dull. Maryann Esposito - well - she should work on her Italian
a bit more, as she's rather embarassing as is. I see that the Death
By Chocolate guy (Marcel Whatever) is now doing - - a hamburger show?

	Jeff Smith, the Frugal History Professor?  He kills me.
	Shaddup already and cook.

    TV sux!

	I liked Martin Yan. (Was that his name?)
	One super-happy Asian chef.

    Martin Yan and Jeff Smith are entertaining, but that French guy's work,
    Jacques Peppin I think his name is, makes my mouth water.  He's always
    cooking something strange, though; bunnies or eggplant or pate.  But he
    makes 'em look so good!
    
    DougO

    TV Ontario has been showing British dramatizations of P.D. James
    mysteries, made in the mid-1980s.  I've never seen them before, or
    read any of the books, but I've found these series pretty gripping.  So
    far I've seen "Shroud For a Nightingale" and "Cover Her Face," and
    taped the 1st episode of another one the other night.  
    
    -Stephen

    
    Any Star Trek show, X-Files, pro football, Seinfeld, nature, science,
    history, British mysteries, cooking.
    
    Paul 
    

    No bare naked ladies?

    I've got to admit, I do stop and watch that painter Bob Ross on
    PBS once in a while.  I'm not sure why, since the painting is
    always going to be based on trees reflected in water.
    
    I guess the intrigue is in whether they'll be happy summer trees
    or happy winter trees with snow on 'em.
    
    If I'm faced with a critical tree-painting situation, I'm ready.
    

Is Ross the guy who looks like a refugee from a late 60's
acid trip who's been through a shower a few times? Afro
and all? Always has that breathy whisper to his voice as
he talks about his happy streams and laughing fields?

Kinda puts you to sleep.

    He's the one, Jack....  kinky hair, strangely shiny blue shirt.
    I think he's recreating the same acid trip over and over and
    over.  And he always seems to be quietly amazed at what he's
    come up with.
    
    Now where did I leave my fan brush and putty knife...  I feel
    the need to be creative!
    
    
     

    

     How's this for class TV.

     UK program "The Word" has a section called "I'll do anything to get 
    on TV"

     Last night section went like this.

     This boy drank some hot salt water,then thru up into a bucket....he
    then thru up into a pint glass....wiped away the vomit from his mouth
    and said...."I 'll do anything to get on TV"...then proceeded
    to drink the vomit....then had a good chew on the lumpy bits.
    
    
         SCott.

    Scott,
    	 now that's what I call class television.(BTW did you see the one
    who dooked for a sheeps heart and bit a chunk out of it).
    
    Dougie.
    

        I did.....almost as good as the piece n worms one.



    SCott

    Do you folks get "Cooking with Biker Bill" up there? This middlele aged
    man with grubbie beard and motorcycle outfit cooking up so pretty good
    food. I can`t get past the intro because its too funny. My kids say he
    is a pretty good cook...looks like I`ll never know.

    Coming this Saturday - Twighlight Zone Marathon at 1:00pm
    (Cablevision)... I think it's on TNT.
    
    Chip

    
    
    Saw Justin Wilson on the tube this weekend.  It wasn't PBS but rather
    network tv.  

    Add to the list when I have the rare occasion to watch.  
    
    Jeopardy - Yes, I am a closet Jeopardy fan.  
    New Yankee Workshop - Waiting for Norm to put a staple through his hand
    This Old house - Outrageously expensive renovations for yuppsters
    Hometime - Mildly amusing and informative less outrageous construction
    	       tips.
    Aussie naturalist shows - Can never know enough about wallabies
    
    

    
    
    
        re.58
    
    
        Yes,....I have seen them at the video place. Thanks for that
        info about TBS purchasing the program,...maybe I'll give 'em
        a call. There were so many great episodes,..like "The Ebonites".
    
    
        Ed
    

    The Ebonites.  Classic.  The attack of the killer bowling balls.  They
    discreetly positioned themselves on the racks with the inert balls
    waiting for an unsuspecing victom to come along and stick their fingers
    in the holes.  They then latched on and sucked the lifeblood out of
    them as the holes were really their mouths.  Is that the episode?  
    
    Brian

    .67
    
    yeah, i've caught ross once in a while.  i tried out his technique on
    my macintosh with expert color paint, and it works on a computer just
    as well as it does on canvas.

Anybody catch Dennis Ahern's two-line letter to the editor in the Globe
this weekend?  He says, "PBS without P is BS."

    
    
    Good ole Dennis.  Loves that government he does.  Still a good chap
    though.
    
    
    
    Mike

    re: .79
    
    Hmmm... I had an "ebonite" clarinet, too, and never made the
    connection.
    
    In Outer Limits reality, though, "Ebonites" are an alien race
    depicted in the episode titled "Nightmare", if I'm recalling
    correctly.  It features Martin Sheen and several other then-young
    actors in a prisoner-of-war setting on an alien planet, and is
    one of the best episodes of that series (or any other).  Chilling,
    and holds up even today.
    
    Chris

    re: Bob Ross
    
    I wonder how well paintings made with his techniques and tools
    look in person?  I've always suspected that the reason it "works"
    on TV was that the inherently low-resolution tube tricked the eye
    into doing "fill-in" to insert detail and subtle color variations
    that aren't there, and that in person, the paintings would essentially
    look like they were in fact done with a house-painting brush and
    a putty knife.
    
    Chris

    
    
    
       re.83
    
    
       ....The prisoner-of-war setting was "staged",.....to see how
       "earth forces" would hold up in an interrogation,...administered
       by "The Ebonites". Indeed,...it was heavy.
    
    
       Ed
    

    .84
    
    'sfak that a perfectly detailed painting often looks bad to the eye. 
    
    the originator of collier's magazine, a guy named bowden collier, knew
    this.  he was once asked to paint a batter on a fence for a baseball
    pitcher to practice throwing at.  he did, and the pitcher's first
    reaction on seeing it close-up was dismay.  it was crude, rough
    painting, something you'd espect a kindergarten kid to do.  collier
    said walk out to the mound and look at it.  pitcher did, and he was
    astonished.  suddenly it looked vibrantly alive.
    
    ross's paintings are that way.  they're not meant to be microscoped the
    way a trompe l'oeil painting is, they're meant to be seen from a
    distance, as part of a setting.  i've seen works by others who use his
    techniques, and they look GOOD.

    Correction... the Twilight Zoned-Out marathon is on USA.
    
    Chip

    re: Twilight Zone on USA
    
    Oh, good... I thought I'd read where the Sci-Fi Channel had
    rights to TZ and that we wouldn't be seeing it anywhere else.
    And since about 1% of cable systems make the Sci-Fi Channel
    available to subscribers, that would've made it pretty tough
    to catch.
    
    One of my big gripes about cable is that I can't pick-and-choose
    from every possible cable channel that exists.  My cable company
    claims that it doesn't have enough available channels for Sci-Fi
    Channel and the Cartoon Network, but they have enough for six
    shopping channels, the Travel Channel, the Weather Channel, the
    Religion Channel, the Line Dancing Channel, three townie channels,
    the cable system's channel, three PBS channels, the Spanish channel,
    the Animals-Eating-Other-Animals channel, the Guess-the-Body-Part
    Surgery channel, the What's-on-Cable channel, the Real Estate channel,
    two low-power UHF channels that are run out of someone's garage (one
    of which shows mainly swimsuit contests), and lots of other silly
    garbage that no one could spend much time watching.
    
    I know, I know... get a satellite.  I don't watch enough TV
    anymore to warrant that, but on the rare occasion that I do want
    to see something, I'd like to have a better choice.
    
    Chris

    How do they play Guess The Body Part Surgury? THAT sounds like fun!

    re: Guess-the-Body-Part Surgery
    
    The trick is to catch the surgery in progress while channel-surfing.
    They actually do tell you what the surgery is at the beginning of
    the program, but you have to be sure to miss this part on purpose.
    
    When you catch it in progress, the camera will usually be zoomed
    in tight on some exposed body part, perhaps with some surgical
    instruments and gloved hands visible.  You can ignore the running
    commentary (which won't make sense anyway, having missed the
    beginning, and being full of unintelligible medical jargon),
    and try to guess what body part is being operated on.
    
    For bonus points, you can guess what they're actually trying to
    do to the body part, since there are usually several possible
    operations involving each organ or joint or whatever.
    
    This is on The Learning Channel, and I believe the series is
    called "The Operation".
    
    Chris

    .90
    Sounds like fun to me...

    
    
       Are they showing the "original" TZ or TZ "Gallery"?
    
    
       Ed
    

    
    
    
    
    I remember seeing facial reconstruction surgery on a 2 year old one
    time.  It was hard to watch the way they peeled all of the skin back
    off the face.  
    
    
    Mike

re: .88, Chris

>    Oh, good... I thought I'd read where the Sci-Fi Channel had
>    rights to TZ and that we wouldn't be seeing it anywhere else.

Yeah - I hadn't actually read anything regarding it but I'd been seeing
the comms on the Sci-Fi channel for months - "Coming. January 1st, 1995.
Exclusively on the Sci-Fi Channel". I also thought they'd procured
exclusive rights to the stuff, which I figured would be more costly
than their budget typically allows for, given the fact that the stuff's
been running on just about every independent station in the country
for years. As it turns out, I think the "Exclusively" part only applied
to the marathon they ran beginning on New Years Day.

re: .93, Mike

I've never been able to watch the show for similar reasons. I get this
rolling sensation in my gut and find it necessary to change channels
quickly.

    
    
    I had to watch this episode to the end, Jack.  Not out of morbid
    curiosity but because I wanted to see if the op was a success.  
    I must say, they did one hell of a job, She looked adorable. 
    
    
    Mike 

I'm simultaneously intrigued and queasy by those surgery
shows...

I watched a 20/20 episode, probably 2-3 weeks ago, where
pre-natal surgery was performed to remove a tumor from the
chest of a 5-month fetus.  Incredible to watch them open
the mothers abdomen, move an itty-bitty arm out of the
way, open the baby's chest.  And, it was a success... just
awesome.

On the other hand, whenever they show eye surgery, that's
too much for me!

    Nope they're the real TZ's! I'm a big fan. I've about 8 hours of
    episodes taped...
    
    I agree with you on the Cable monopoly. They rip the customer off
    in a very big way. I'd gladly trade in the 5 home shopping channels
    for the Comedy Channel.
    
    Chip

Law & Order
Wiseguy re-runs
MST3K
Who's Line Is It Anyway?
Politically Incorrect

                                   tv snarf

    
    	- X-Files
    	- TNG, DS9
    	- Jacque Pepin cooking show
    	- WINGZ, Frazier
    	- Murphy Brown

    It's Ren & Stimpy night!! It's Ren & Stimpy night!!
    
    "Hey man, this guy's talking to his boogers!"

    
    The new Star Trek premiered Monday, and stunk out the house.
    
    Why don't they just meekly go where all the others went ?
    
      bb

	bb, i liked it a lot. what did you find wrong with it? btw, did you
know that a lot of people did not like stng when it first came out? like this
one, it's being compared to the last series. my roomate thought the captain
should not be protraying capt. pickard because she isn't coming off as being
able to do so. it came down that it was his own projections of what he wanted
to see was the cause of this. anyway, i like it... SO THERE! :-)

    The Brother Cadfael mysteries on PBS look promising. Derek Jacobi
    in the title role. First episode was neat. A second one comes up
    Thursday at 9 on Ch.2.

    I don't know if I already said this, but E.R. is a very good show.

>>    my roomate thought the captain
>>    should not be protraying capt. pickard because she isn't coming off as
>>    being
>>    able to do so. it came down that it was his own projections of what he
>>    wanted to see was the cause of this. anyway, i like it... SO THERE! :-)
    
    I urge all my fellow noters to ban any show with the title Star Trek
    that has a woman as a Captain.  
    
    Star Trek (The one with Captain Kirk) is Americana...right before your
    eyes.  I refused to watch the next generation...I don't care how
    special the effects were, because they simply crossed the border of
    Political Correctness and prostituted what Gene Rodenberry
    created.  Now to have a woman Captain?  This is unspeakable.  
    
    Ban Star Trek.  There trying to appease the whiners and it just isn't 
    working!!!
    
    -Jack

RE: 232.107

I suppose you'd rather we just kept all those uppity broads barefoot
and pregnant, wouldn't you? If there had been a smiley in your reply, I
might have given you credit for a good sense of humor. But from what I
see in your other notes, it looks like you're serious. Idiot. Star trek
is supposed to be about what is best in people. Being afraid to have a
woman captain is a very bad thing.

					-K-

    hey i'm all for women in Star Trek as long as they have the skin-tight
    uniforms
    
    ric
    8-P

    TNG was 100 times better than TOS, and it's about time they had a female
    captain. I like the way the Star Trek universe has turned out.
    
    Glenn

	Another vote for E.R.  I like that frenetic pace.
	And if I ever find myself a doctor that looks like
	George Clooney, I'll become a professional
	hypochondriac. 

>>    I suppose you'd rather we just kept all those uppity broads barefoot
>>    and pregnant, wouldn't you? If there had been a smiley in your reply, I
>>    might have given you credit for a good sense of humor. But from what I
>>    see in your other notes, it looks like you're serious. Idiot. Star trek
>>    is supposed to be about what is best in people. Being afraid to have a
>>    woman captain is a very bad thing.
    
    Thank you K, for your victim-like reply.  There's always one in every
    crowd.  The first line is what made you the victim here Kerry...the
    line about uppity broads being barefoot and pregnant.
    
    No just relax and hear me out.  AS I SAID BEFORE, I didn't like the
    Next Generation either.  That means I don't like the new look of the
    Klingons, I don't like Captain Picard, I don't like the new special
    effects.  The old Star Trek was Americana...Captain Kirk (Man)  Mr.
    Spock, and company.  It's not that a woman cannot be a Captain...but
    not on Star Trek.  They are prostituting an American Institution. 
    
    So no, I'm not the sexist pig you think.  
    
    -Jack

Not only that, but I'll pretend I'm sick all the time.

    
    Well, for me it wasn't the woman who plays the captain (although
    red hair in a bun doesn't seem 23rd century, but let that pass).
    
    I didn't like the 2-hour plot (which dragged), the odd juxtaposition
    of primitive and super-futuristic.  And each round has more Lucas
    ripoffs.  Foidermore, the situational possibilities may SEEM good
    for years, but the "Lost in Space" theme has been done ad nauseum.
    For 2 cents, who remembers "Battlestar Galactica", etc.
    
    The characters were pretty wooden, but that's to be expected for a
    premiere.  What are they going to with pretty-boy what's his name,
    you know, the "bad kid makes good" thing ?  And the built-in
    dissension theme ?  Too many loose ends.
    
    Here's something I DID like : the young, black Vulcan.  Potential
    series-saving, like Spock and Commander Data.  As for the rest of
    them, I'd prefer the Borg...
    
      bb

| <<< Note 232.111 by SUBPAC::JJENSEN "Jojo the Fishing Widow" >>>


| And if I ever find myself a doctor that looks like George Clooney, 


	And if he starts singing Coronet songs????? :-)

	I like that other doctor who's name escapes me. He is an intern.


Glen

RE: 232.112

You mistake me, Jack. I'm not a victim. You're the victim of your own
narrow view. The original Star Trek was very good, it tackled some
pretty tough issues like racism and jingoism. But it was a product of
its times, they weren't ready to see a woman in that kind of a position
of power back then. But they had a Vulcan, not a red-blooded American
man, as first officer, and they had a BLACK WOMAN in charge of bridge
communications. Once Nichelle Nichols was very close to quitting
because she didn't think her part was important enough, but she met
Martin Luther King and he told her she must not quit because Uhura was
proof that the world of power wasn't the property of white males. Gene
Roddenberry pushed things as far as he could. But you, in your little
reactionary shell, want to keep things the way they were back then. I
think Roddenberry would not like your attitude if he were alive today.

					-K-

    Then you certainly must remember Depau, the leader on planet Vulcan. 
    She was a woman and one of power and not one to be reckoned with.
    
    You may also remember the episode "For the Wrld is Hollow, And I have
    Touched the Sky".  In this episode, the priestess of this
    planet/satellite was a woman, also one not to be reckoned with.
    The episode of Spocks Brain depicted woman of extreme leadership and
    intelligence.  And a biggie...the one where the three Romulan vessels
    surrounded the enterprise...Kirk crossed the neutral zone as a ploy to 
    steal the cloaking device.  Yes, the commander of those three vessels
    was INDEED A WOMAN and was in COMMAND over men.  She had no problem
    with the idea of using the death penalty, etc.  She play the part
    marvelously.  I commend all these women for their roles in the original
    Star Trek.
    
    Rather than going back and forth, suffice to say I think it would have
    been better if they just left Star Trek alone!  
    
    -Jack  

    re: .107
    
    Well, Jack, I wouldn't mind a woman captain, but at least they could
    have found a looker.  How about some pretty young thing touted as a
    genius, graduating first from the academy, very capable and all that.  
    Not only would it appease the feminists (or would putting a pretty young 
    woman in this spot only be considered window dressing by the feminists?), 
    but all the ST fans (predominanty male, I believe) would have something 
    to look/drool at, too.  
    
    IMCOMING!!! (it was only a thought  8^) )

    re: .108
    
    But, in all honesty, ST is PC to the point of being sickening these
    days.  I still like the show, but enough is enough already.
    
    -steve

    IMO, Beverly Crusher would have made a better choice for captain.  I
    see no reason for not having a woman captain though the casting doesn't
    seem right.  IMO, YMMV, etc...

    Put it this way, would you have had Steve Martin or Martin Short
    attempt to play George Washington in a serious documentary?
    
    Captain Kirk was stern, fair, commanded leadership, looked out for the
    crew and the prime directive.  He was a scrapper and was type cast
    perfectly for the position.
    
    A woman captain of the enterprise would not type cast the captain of a
    star ship very well.  While Captain Kirk is portrayed as hanging from
    his thumbs, a woman captain would be concerned about her
    nails..."you're hurting me!!!"
    
    -Jack

    I think if you keep this up Jack, they very well may hurt you... :-)
    :-) :-)
    
    -b

    A Medical Officer would never be the captain of a starship, unless it
    was a medical one.
    
    Spock's Brain?
    
    BRAIN and BRAIN! What IS BRAIN?!?
    
    Ya, that one made women look great for sure.
    
    Jack, go put the teacher on will ya?

    Yes, I still wake up with the sweats...I have nightmares about the MSO
    babes walking toward me with dull spoons!! :-)

    Yes but remember Glenn, the cavemen on the surface were still typecast
    as uncivilized barbarians!!

RE    <<< Note 232.121 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I lied; I hate the fat dinosaur" >>>

>    Put it this way, would you have had Steve Martin or Martin Short
>    attempt to play George Washington in a serious documentary?

  No contest, Steve martin.

    Aid de Camp at Vally Forge : "But General Washington, the men are hungry
                                  and their freezing to death"

    General Washington         : "Well ExCUUUUUUUUUUUUUS ME!!!"
    
  George

    <--- :-) !!!
    
    That was good George!!! You been at a short loosening seminar or
    something? :-) :-)
    
    -b

   re: .116
    
>> I think Roddenberry would not like your attitude if he were alive today.
    
    You might want to read Roddenberry's biography by Engel (not
    Alexander) before you project any philosophies onto Roddenberry.
    I don't want to burst any Trekker bubbles, but his attitude
    towards women was not necessarily what you might like it to have
    been.  For example, his treatment of D.C. Fontana is notable, and
    there are several other cases that bear close scrutiny.
    
    As for the series, I had very low expectations, but once I got
    past the P.C. crew (they forgot a Hispanic) and Mulgrew's wooden
    acting (no surprise to anyone familiar with her past work), the
    rest of it wasn't too shabby.  I particularly liked the way they
    used the Vulcan as a story device to "explain the puzzle" to the
    Captain (and the viewers), very similar to the way Spock was used
    in many TOS episodes.
    
    Aside from Mulgrew, the acting was fair, certainly better than DS9,
    and perhaps even better than most of the TNG drone actors.  The story
    was reasonably good, but then I like any Trek episode where they get
    off the damned ship onto a planet to explore some civilization (this
    was far too lacking in TNG).  It looks as if someone actually did an
    honest analysis of "how could TNG have been better", and implemented
    some of the suggestions.
    
    The external design of the ship was an improvement over Enterprise-D
    as well.  If they can keep up the story quality, they might be okay.
    It's certainly a vast improvement over DS9, at least so far.
    
    Jack, I understand where you're coming from... there will never be
    another Kirk.  The Kirk character (during the series; he seemed to
    be a different actor in the movies) was a classic; imagine any other
    actor trying to pull off those episodes, and it would've been a far
    lesser series.
    
    Chris

RE: 232.121

You think a woman would not typecast as the commander of the
Enterprise? But what about the female Romuman you so brightly brought
up? She was strong and tenacious and a scrapper. She commanded
leadership and she was fair in the way of Romulans. But a Federation
captain couldn't be a woman? Why not? Aren't human women as good as
Romulan women? Jack, your sexist streak is showing a mile wide.

					-K-

    what rhymes with dreck?

    <<< Note 232.117 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I lied; I hate the fat dinosaur" >>>


	Let's see..... you have mentioned 4 episodes out of how many? I think
the difference between those 4 episodes and the new ST is Kirk always being the
captain, a male. In the new ST, a female will ALWAYS be in charge, not just
occasionally.


Glen

    Well, you need to spend more time with the givers of pain and delight.

| <<< Note 232.121 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I lied; I hate the fat dinosaur" >>>


| Captain Kirk was stern, fair, commanded leadership, looked out for the
| crew and the prime directive.  He was a scrapper and was type cast
| perfectly for the position.

	William Shatner was/is an overactor. The whole crew, with the exception
of Spock, were overactors. It was easy to see it when the NG came about, as
Pickard was one who used his head before his muscle, while Kirk used his muscle
before his head. (maybe that's why Kirk got all the goils?) The present captain
is different than both of them, which I'm glad about. Otherwise you'd be in
here complainin about how they are trying to copy the other ST's....

| A woman captain of the enterprise would not type cast the captain of a star 
| ship very well. While Captain Kirk is portrayed as hanging from his thumbs, a 
| woman captain would be concerned about her nails..."you're hurting me!!!"

	Jack, if you are serious about the above, you're an ass.


Glen

| <<< Note 232.129 by VORTEX::CALIPH::kerry "Kerry Sanderson" >>>



| Jack, your sexist streak is showing a mile wide.


	So his sexist streak runs across his but eh???? :-)

RE   <<< Note 232.130 by WECARE::GRIFFIN "John Griffin ZKO1-3/B31 381-1159" >>>

>    what rhymes with dreck?

  breck?

  George

    wouldn't chasm be more appropriate than ass when talking those
    distances??? :-)

	You wanna know why they never put a woman in charge of a Starship
	before? Because on the very first trip out, and less than 25
	minutes into the new series, she managed to crack up a brand new,
	just_off_the_showroom_floor Starship. 
	
	;-)

    ... or maybe she wanted to put throw pillows on the bridge! :-)
    
    -b

    ... or she said "go left" when she meant right ...
    
    ric
    8-)

| <<< Note 232.136 by WMOIS::GIROUARD_C >>>



| wouldn't chasm be more appropriate than ass when talking those distances??? :-)

	But his butt is so huuuuuge.... :-)

    -1 okay Glen, we can upgrade to canyon! :-)
    
       Chip

    Glen:
    
    So, you're staring at me butt eh?!!  No, you just wish it were a mile
    wide...TIC.  
    
    Glen et al, Captain Kirk is Star Trek.  Captain Kirk set the standard
    for Star Trek.  The Federation didn't do quotas Glen so when you
    complain about four episodes having women in leadership roles, what can
    I say...Maybe they need to implement Affirmative Action on Klingon!
    
    What the heck, we're arguing about fiction here!!!!!  Kirk is it,
    fighting is part of his persona...he was an excellent strategist.  A
    solid thinking woman can be just as good a strategist, maybe even just
    as good a fighter....but not on the Enterprise, kay!?  Put her on the
    Entrepid or some other Star Cruiser...or have her in some other series.  
    But don't marr the name of James T. Kirk!  
    
    -Jack

Captain Kirk was on a mission from God to sow his seed across the cosmos.

    .142
    
    > he was an excellent strategist.
    
    i'm sorry, barney, but an excellent strategist does not make it his
    policy to send down shore parties comprising the three or four most
    valuable, and most nearly irreplaceable, personnel on his ship.  kirk
    was a study in bad command.  in a real navy he'd never make command
    rank; they'd have weeded him out while he was still an ensign or a
    looey if they hadn't already bounced him out of the academy.
    
    what kirk was, was what the neilsens' average wage-earning viewer
    dreamed of being:  strong, handsome, and a ladykiller.

    
>>    what kirk was, was what the neilsens' average wage-earning viewer
>>    dreamed of being:  strong, handsome, and a ladykiller.
			         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	beg to differ

   >>     what kirk was, was what the neilsens' average wage-earning viewer
   >>     dreamed of being:  strong, handsome, and a ladykiller.
    
    Which is why the President and Vice President never travel on the same
    plane...good point.  As far as a ladykiller though, I have my
    reservations.  Kirk was married to his ship.  There were never any
    improprieties on that show...well, maybe one or two.
    
    By the way everybody, be sure to tune in to "Friends" Thursday night on
    one of the three Networks.  I star as a man named Ross or Russ.  I have
    had to date two boxers and 10 colleagues who are not acquainted with
    each other insist I am a dead ringer for this guy.  I have yet to see
    the show myself but I'm sure he's quite good looking!!!
    
    -Jack

	>>I have
        >>had to date two boxers...

	gee, i feel sort of, well, left out.

    >                                                            I have
    >had to date two boxers and 10 colleagues who are not acquainted with
    >each other insist I am a dead ringer for this guy.      
    
    
    Well, I'm not as concerned about you dating those two boxers
    Jack, as I am those 10 colleagues! Probably a good thing
    they didn't know each other... :-) :-)
    
    -b

    .145
    
    sorry, di dear, you are of course correct, but you surely noticed which
    male star was habitually in the clinches with the supposedly attractive
    female guest stars...  possibly women's standards of male charisma will
    have changed by the time the 23d century rolls around.
    
    .146
    
    as for being married to his ship, well, yeah, sure.  but he wouldn't be
    the first married captain to do a little philandering, now, would he, i
    mean, like, a ship HAS heads, but a ship can't GIVE head.

    Yabbut Dick...
    
    Most wifes _have_ heads, but not all of them give it either! :-)
    
    -b

RE: 232.150

Is it part of SOAPBOX that you have to give a scurrilous double meaning
to everything? :-(

					-K-

    
    I've noticed Binder DOES get a scurrility boost when he returns from
    net-surfing.  Being foul-mouthed in a learned way, he scoots through
    the known gaps in the mods R-O algorithm.  But the only result is
    bad puns.  Set your phasers only on STUN....
    
      bb

| <<< Note 232.141 by WMOIS::GIROUARD_C >>>

| -1 okay Glen, we can upgrade to canyon! :-)

	Sounds good to me Chip!

| <<< Note 232.142 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I lied; I hate the fat dinosaur" >>>

| So, you're staring at me butt eh?!!  No, you just wish it were a mile
| wide...TIC.

	Why thank you Jack for the compliment about my private parts....

| Glen et al, Captain Kirk is Star Trek. Captain Kirk set the standard for Star 
| Trek.  

	This really describes you Jack. You still live in the past. Like with
women being in their place and all.

| The Federation didn't do quotas Glen so when you complain about four episodes 
| having women in leadership roles, 

	Jack, that was to illistrate that there were 4 episodes that had women
as leaders. They still lost to the man, which was your beloved Kirk. It also
demonstrated that seeing there were only 4 episodes where a woman was in
charge, it made it easier for you to handle because it wasn't a permanant
thing. I was not trying to illistrate what you were implying.

| A solid thinking woman can be just as good a strategist, maybe even just
| as good a fighter....but not on the Enterprise, kay!?  

	I think you're wrong. But to make you happy, they did put her on her
own ship called the Voyager.

| Put her on the Entrepid or some other Star Cruiser...or have her in some other
| series. But don't marr the name of James T. Kirk!

	Jack, did you even watch this show???? You're talking out of your mile
wide butt again...


Glen

    I still say a pretty woman captain would be better...gorgeous,
    intellegent and a real "man-killer".  We could call her the
    anti-Kirk, though I'd hope she'd have the good taste not
    to..ah...fraternize so freely.
    
    I only saw the preview special.  From that tidbit, I found that
    I didn't particularly like the Captian or Doctor's roles as portrayed.  
    The black vulcan is an interesting twist, and I actually liked this role 
    the best from what I've seen (and the actor, who was second to what's
    his face for playing air-filter head on STTNG, did a fine job as a
    vulcan).   I'll reserve final judgement until I watch a few full
    episodes.  
    
    
    -steve                                         

    Re: .107
    
    >they simply crossed the border of Political Correctness and 
    >prostituted what Gene Rodenberry created.  Now to have a woman 
    >Captain?  This is unspeakable.
    
    The show Gene Roddenberry created had a woman as first officer.  The
    network stepped in and demanded changes.  A woman captain is entirely
    consistent with Roddenberry's ideals.
    
    
    Re: .121
    
    >a woman captain would be concerned about her nails..."you're hurting 
    >me!!!"
    
    Let's hope this is an attempt at humor.  I'd hate to think that even
    you could be as such a pinhead.

    Re: .128
    
    >the P.C. crew (they forgot a Hispanic)
    
    Beltran is Hispanic.  "Native American" can just as easily refer to the 
    continent as the country.
    
    
    Re: .144
    
    >what kirk was, was what the neilsens' average wage-earning viewer
    >dreamed of being:  strong, handsome, and a ladykiller.
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^
    Literally.  How many of his ladies survived to the final credits? 
    Captain Kirk and his kiss of death....

    How do you know a woman captain would NOT be concerned about her nails,
    smartie??
    
    8^)

    the idea of having a black vulcan is pc at its most ridiculous.  having
    a black (light brown) klingon was a LITTLE more reasonable in sttng,
    given that the klingons in tos were always made up to look dark of
    complexion, but what is it with the idea that alien species must of
    needs have variations in skin color the same as humans do?
    
    or is this black vulcan another half-breed like spock and thereby maybe
    possessed of a black human parent who met the vulcan ideal enough to
    merit making the beast with two backs?
    
    give me a break!

    
    Butt now for the real important question....
    
    Is the "When will Smits show his butt?" pool over now?
    
    								-mr. bill

    He showed his right cheek last night just before rogering the reporter.

    Re: .160
    
    >the idea of having a black vulcan is pc at its most ridiculous.
    
    Actually, the guy who plays him said most Vulcans should be black,
    since it's a hot planet....

 >>   The show Gene Roddenberry created had a woman as first officer. 
 >>   The network stepped in and demanded changes.  A woman captain is
 >>   entirely consistent with Roddenberry's ideals.
    
    Chelsea just stabbed me good!  Ouch.  I will have to eat my words on
    this one.  The first officer was indeed a woman.  Ironically, it was
    nurse chappel with dark long hair.  She was more soft and feminine as a
    nurse.  
    
    My apologies to all women (including Glen) on this grave error!
    
    -Jack 

    .163
    
    > Actually, the guy who plays him said ...
    
    if he's gonna go spouting off like that, he oughta get it right.  high
    temperature does not make for black, actinic light does.  in the search
    for spock, the scenes on vulcan were not suggestive of a bright sun
    raining down actinic radiation.  to the contrary, they were indicative
    of a red sun or a very dirty atmosphere, either of which says that the
    sunlight would not be sparkling with uv.

    Um, no. She was the first officer.
    
    The very first captain was supposed to be Robert April, then it was
    Christopher Pike, then Kirk.

    re: .157
    
    >> The show Gene Roddenberry created had a woman as first officer.
    
    Unfortunately, his primary motivation was that he was attempting
    to boost the career of his mistress, Majel Barrett, without making
    it too obvious to his wife at the time.  I wish it was because he had
    high ideals and was being progressive and all, but it just ain't so.
    
    
    >> The network stepped in and demanded changes.
    
    Yes, they did, but not because they couldn't accept a woman as
    first officer (which was a story invented by Roddenberry and widely
    bandied about at Trek conventions over the years), but rather, because
    Barrett had "tested" poorly, and the NBC execs didn't think much of her
    acting skills either.  Roddenberry chose not to replace her with another
    female actress, so as to minimize the damage to their relationship.
    Note that NBC asked for several other changes after seeing "The Cage",
    and that removing Barrett was only one of many such requests.  The
    second-pilot crew is almost entirely different, with the exception
    of Spock.
    
    
    >> A woman captain is entirely consistent with Roddenberry's ideals.
    
    Perhaps consistent with the ideals that have been ascribed to the
    "Roddenberry Mystique" over the years, but not consistent with his
    actual values.  Where were the high-ranking women on TNG's Enterprise,
    a series over which he enjoyed complete creative control in its early
    formative years?  Roddenberry's primary intent for Dr. Crusher was to
    serve as a love/hate interest for Picard (see, for example, "The Naked
    Now").
    
    Any progress that women enjoyed in the original Trek series, the
    Trek movies and in TNG (I particularly liked the Enterprise-C captain)
    were not done in accordance with Roddenberry's philosophies, but rather
    were done by others, circumventing Roddenberry after he'd given up
    (or lost) control of the various Trek incarnations.
    
    In general, "Star Trek" over the years has portrayed women in an
    increasingly progressive manner, but Roddenberry himself can't honestly
    take the credit for this.
    
    Chris

    Ohhhh.I'm crushed!  Don't tell me nurse Chappel was Roddenberry's
    mistress!

    One of many, alas...
    
    Chris

    What I get a chuckle out of is how Dick can seem to get by all the
    other nonsense of Star Trek like flying faster than the speed of
    light, alien planets that consistently have breathable atmospheres,
    aliens that are all humanoids with a little badly applied prosthetic
    makeup, etc. etc., but can't tolerate a black vulcan!
    
    What a hoot!
    
    -b (who gleefully missed this latest attempt at science fiction
        and hopes to establish a pattern of continuing to do so.)
        

    Plus, everywhere they go everyone speaks English; rather like the early
    Mission Impossible in that regard.

    Well, it would get aggravating after a while if every alien was
    impossible to speak too now wouldn't it. They did tackle the language
    thing in the episode "Darmok" which, in my opinion was an excellent
    show.

    
    the new captain sounds like a cartoon character at times, like she's
    half tweety bird.
    
    bill

>     <<< Note 232.173 by GLDOA::SHOOK "Pomp,circumstance,dropping trou" >>>
>
>    
>    the new captain sounds like a cartoon character at times, like she's
>    half tweety bird.
>    
>    bill


I saw a great show on PBS (WGBH Channel 2, Boston, MA) last night called 
"The Science of Star Trek".  It was an hour long and they went into the 
myths and realities of what goes on in Star Trek.  Things that we  might 
see soon (medical Tricorder, Androids with the strength of 100 humans 
however not with positronic brains, hand held phasers) and things we won't 
see for a long while.

A very interesting show.  It is being shown on Channel 44 (again in Boston) 
tonight 1/19/95 at 10:00 pm

Geoff

    .170
    
    no, brian, you're missing it.
    
    flying faster than the speed of light is a point that hinges on
    suspension of disbelief if science fiction is to be a valid art form. 
    because i see great value in science fiction's ability to make serious
    social commentary in an indirect fashion that many people find less
    offensive than if it were pointedly about human frailties, i buy this
    loophole.
    
    breathable atmospheres are a point of practicality - if you were
    seeking out alien species that you might have something in common with,
    you would look for class m planets.  if an alien not on a class m
    planet wanted to make it possible for you to be there, for whatever
    reason, it might fake the necessary environment.  again, some
    suspension of disbelief is called for.
    
    humanoid aliens, again, class m planets.  (but remember the horta,
    which was one of the most truly SYMPATHETIC aliens in the whole run of
    tos.)  given the nature of biology, ecology, and evolution, it is
    likely that any species as intelligent (?) as we are is going to be a
    physical generalist, and appendages such as fingers and an opposable
    thumb are the epitome of physical generalism.  so here again some
    suspension of disbelief is called for, but not all that much because
    this one is sound science.  it is also sound from the xian religious
    point of view once the possibility of nonterrestrial aliens at all is
    stipulated.  a good designer (god) isn't going to waste a good
    blueprint (our physical arrangement) just because he happens to be on a
    different planet.
    
    the business of a black vulcan does not hold up, even with a certain
    suspension of disbelief, because the groundwork was laid scientifically
    in the search for spock and peripherally in tos (remember they were all
    fair-skinned vulcans with no strong shadows in amok time) for the lack
    of heavy melanism.  remember, however, that a REAL syspension of
    disbelief is necessary to accept that a vulcan and a human could
    interbreed at all - this is why i remarked on the possibility that the
    black vulcan is half human, because by that means he could be just as
    plausible as spock is.  failing that, however...
    
    before you ask, no.  i won't bother to watch voyager.

RE: 232.175 by SMURF::BINDER "gustam vitare"

> breathable atmospheres are a point of practicality - if you were
> seeking out alien species that you might have something in common with,
> you would look for class m planets.  if an alien not on a class m
> planet wanted to make it possible for you to be there, for whatever
> reason, it might fake the necessary environment.  again, some
> suspension of disbelief is called for.

If alien life is based on carbon chemistry then the atmosphere would most
likely be chemically breathable.  Main difficulties would be pressure and
percentage of CO2,  and humans can tolerate a wide range of both.

Alien life based on chemistry other than carbon would not produce an
atmosphere even close to breathable,  and would also be at unlivable
temperatures.

What is unbelievable is planets without any life with breathable
atmospheres.


> the business of a black vulcan does not hold up, even with a certain
> suspension of disbelief, because the groundwork was laid scientifically
> in the search for spock and peripherally in tos (remember they were all
> fair-skinned vulcans with no strong shadows in amok time) for the lack
> of heavy melanism.  

Didn't the vulcan's have star travel before contact with the federation, 
and didn't the vulcan's colonize other planets?  

If so,  then the answer could be that one of these planets had a much
higher level of UV at the surface.  The reason why humans have dark skin is
to protect our skin from UV light's effects.  Human populations that have
been in high UV areas for long periods of time are dark.  Human populations
that have been in low UV areas for short periods of time are not dark.


> remember, however, that a REAL syspension of disbelief is necessary to 
> accept that a vulcan and a human could interbreed at all 

Bingo.  


Phil

    Not only that, the Klingons and the Romulans shared the same
    forefathers...much like Abraham was the father of the Jews and the
    Arabs!

    Dick:
    
    I thought the vulcans were barbaric.  Remember the episode of the
    library...
    
    McCoy:  Spock...what are your ancestors doing on your home
    planet...this very moment."
    
    Spock: They are warlike....barbaric.

    .176
    
    the vulcans were "civilized" long before we humans got there.  they
    colonized, which is why romulans have pointed ears.  they then withdrew
    to vulcan when they decided to abandon emotion for logic.  logic, being
    an inner thing that produces a controlled, stylized civilization, does
    not demand acquisitions or an audience to parade for, there is no need
    for the externals of conquest; you will note some of the same social
    traits in the ancient chinese (before the mongol incursions).  various
    of the st episodes suggest that the vulcans have been self-contained on
    their planet for some millennia, long enough to lose melanism as a
    pronounced trait.

    .179
    
    they were barbaric - long in the past.  the library episode had the
    atavachron pointed at a scene in the distant ice-age past of the
    library planet when spock and mccoy went through, and mccoy's question
    was in reference to that time period, not the 23d century.  at the
    point when spock's ancestors were warlike barbarians, terestrial humans
    were still isolated clumps of nomadic hunter-gatherers struggling to
    survive at all.

    Re: .177
    
    >long enough to lose melanism as a pronounced trait.
    
    It could still occur, just rarely.  Perhaps it's a mutation....  Not
    that race would have any affect on this character's development within
    the Vulcan culture; stigmatizing someone because his skin color is
    different would not be logical.

    .181
    
    but consider, chels, that there are other physical characteristics
    associated with human torrid-zone natives, such as a broad flat nose,
    thick fleshy lips, and so on.  (these characteristics appear both in
    african-descended stock and in australian aboriginal stock, which was
    isolated LONG ago from other humans.)  unlike a dark skin, these more
    basic characteristics take far longer than a few millennia to develop.
    the narrow, projecting nose of northern europe, evolutionarily better
    for living in a cold climate, appears to have taken perhaps a hundred
    thousand years to come to its present form, and the inuit people who
    have lived in the arctic for only perhaps 10,000 years, don't have it
    yet.  so it's fairly unlikely, unless vulcan's sun was causing tans a
    quarter of a million years ago and hasn't stopped yet, that the total
    combination of characteristics that define a modern black human would
    persist in a vulcan to the present.

    .182
    
    bound to say i think you are treading on very thin anthropological ice
    here
    
    but as with all things evolutionary, you can argue till you're
    blue/black/green/yellow/white/red in the face and never prove the point
    conclusively
    
    ric

    .183
    
    study some more and you'll learn that my ice is quite thick.

    re: .182
    
    	Could you explain how a narrow projecting nose is an adaptation to
    	cold climates? I don't get it.
    
    			Robert.
    

    The nose acts as a preheater for the air thus reducing some of the
    shock of the cold when it enters the lungs, preserving body heat and
    all.  
    
    

    Re: .182
    
    >there are other physical characteristics associated with human 
    >torrid-zone natives, such as a broad flat nose, thick fleshy lips, and 
    >so on
    
    I have to dig out a fairly recent Discover magazine that was all about
    race.  As I recall, some characteristics that are typically assumed to
    be race-related in fact occur across various ethnic groupings.  I'll
    have to check which ones.  Also, does "torrid-zone" refer to a region
    on a specific continent or is it a global area (n degrees above and
    below the equator)?  Because when you approach the Mediterranean, you
    have a far greater ethnic variety in the same environmental conditions
    with different physical characteristics.

    .184
    
    study some more ? nah, the pay is lousy
    
    ric

    disbelief... it's TV!!! funny how all other fringe presentations
    are rationalized except that one lousy black vulcan thing.
    
    just an observation...
    
    Chip

    .189
    
    hey, everybody's gotta have SOMETHING to beat on.  and look at the
    great discussion i started.

    
    And anyways, the guy did a good job with it.  The appeal of the Vulcans
    (which saved the original, if any concept did) is that we want to see
    what a similar species with a totally different mix of mental
    properties and tradeoffs would be like.  To bring it off as an actor,
    (and Leonard Nimoy did) YOU MUST NEVER let yourself be "normal" for a
    human.  In some sense, it's easier for this guy, to copy the Nimoy
    personna a bit, but in other ways it must be harder.  You cannot make
    up what Vulcans are, or at least not much.  The guy did a good job, but
    did not have a big part in this "pilot movie" 2-hour format.  We'll see
    if he can build a character after some weeks.
    
      By the way, amidst thoroughly atrocious acting, I found one other
    possible bright spot.  It's the "emergency holographic doctor" !  This
    is great !  I got a big kick of the guy wandering around looking lost
    "Will somebody please terminate my program ?"  The tough life of a
    "sprite" !  This is potentially great comic relief !
    
      bb

    .187
    
    torrid-zone as i used it, being terrestrial and all, refers to the
    drier regions in and near the tropics, not to a specific continent. 
    which is why australian abos show many of the same characteristics that
    african blacks possess.  generally the same climate produces generally
    the same genotype.  the mediterranean mix results from vast amounts of
    melting-pot activity over the past 5,000 years, i.e., since we humans
    got "civilized" enough to travel long distances as a matter of relative
    ease.

    Re: .192
    
    >drier regions in and near the tropics
    
    Aren't semitic peoples native to these regions as well?
    
    >which is why australian abos show many of the same characteristics that
    >african blacks possess
    
    What about South Americans?  They took up residence on the order of
    20,000 years ago.  What about the Indian subcontinent?

Will Q make appearances on ST Voyager?  I like Q.
I can't stomach Kate Mulgrew, so I'll prolly not
pay much attention to the show otherwise.

    .192
    
    >which is why australian abos show many of the same characteristics that
    >african blacks possess.  generally the same climate produces generally
    >the same genotype.  the mediterranean mix results from vast amounts of
    
    shouldn't you preface this with "It is thought that this is ..." ?
    
    and you mean phenotype not genotype
    
    ric

    .193
    
    semites are native to a moister region in the fertile crescent - the
    desert conditions we see in that area today developed primarily over
    the past 2500 years or so.  satellite mapping shows rivers in the area
    that have been buried by the drifting sands.  desertification is
    happening at a terrifying rate.
    
    > What about South Americans?
    
    amazon natives show the broad flat noses of warm-region people together
    with the moderate pigmentation of forest dwellers.  the inca, who lived
    in a higher, cooler, drier climate, had projecting noses.  the maya,
    who also had projecting noses (seriously beaky roman ones!) did not
    live in the rainforest, they cleared land and farmed it and were
    thereby exposed to the sun and a generally drier air.
    
    > the Indian subcontinent
    
    there are at least 14 ethnic regions of the indian subcontinent.  pick
    one.  and tell me when the present population's forebears settled there.

re: .186

	Your kidding right?

re: .196

>    in a higher, cooler, drier climate, had projecting noses.  the maya,
>    who also had projecting noses (seriously beaky roman ones!) did not
>    live in the rainforest, they cleared land and farmed it and were
>    thereby exposed to the sun and a generally drier air.
 

	Now your being just plain silly. Where did you get this from?!?!

			Robert.

    -1 true, very true... :-)
    
       Chip

| <<< Note 232.164 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I lied; I hate the fat dinosaur" >>>


| My apologies to all women (including Glen) on this grave error!

	<grin>..... hey Jack..... I guess you've just given us another example
where you talk out yer butt! :-)  When you say things are fact, are you just
making them up, or what? If so, there is a topic for that.... heh heh....


Glen

    We'll continue in a moment, but first this important message from our
    sponsor ....
    
    
    
    				S N A R F  !!
    
    
    

    >> It's the "emergency holographic doctor" !  This
    >> is great !  I got a big kick of the guy wandering around looking lost
    >> "Will somebody please terminate my program ?"  The tough life of a
    >> "sprite" !  
    
    I found myself wondering:  Why is he so obsessed with being turned off?
    Is he tired?  Does he get bored in "idle" mode?  If a computer program
    had some form of "consciousness" (an interesting question that may
    be explored here if they get the notion), what would it "want" to do,
    keep working, or be turned off so it could get some rest?  I'd think
    it would want to keep working, since that's all it "knows".  Thus the
    seeming incongruity of the holo-doc constantly wanting to be turned
    off.  It might have been more interesting if he'd expressed gladness,
    as in "Oh good, they forgot to turn me off, now I can look around and
    have some time to myself", and so on, sort of like a kid whose parents
    inadvertently let him stay up late.
    
    re: "Q"
    
    I've heard he'll make an appearance, and I hope so, he's my favorite
    character from TNG.  He also had my favorite most-chilling line from
    TNG: "Awwww.  Nothing happened."  I guess you hadda be there.
    
    Chris

	Next Generation snarf!!!

	Damn!!!!

>>     When you say things are fact, are you just
>>    making them up, or what? 
    
    Uhhhhhhhhhhh......yes?

    .197
    
    > re: .186
    >
    >         Your kidding right?
    
    "you're kidding, right?"  yvw.
    
    no, he's not kidding.  he is correct.  in addition to warming the
    incoming air, the nose also humidifies it.
    
    >> in a higher, cooler, drier climate, had projecting noses.  the maya,
    >> who also had projecting noses (seriously beaky roman ones!) did not
    >> live in the rainforest, they cleared land and farmed it and were
    >> thereby exposed to the sun and a generally drier air.
    >
    >
    >        Now your being just plain silly. Where did you get this from?!?!
    
    the place i got it from is actually two disciplines of science that are
    known as archaeology and anthropology.  i suggest that you might take
    up reading for a hobby instead of giggling at things you apparently
    don't understand.

    RE: .197  
    
    Well actually I was only half kidding.  Now I feel so smart :-).  
    	
    

    
>    "you're kidding, right?"  yvw.
 
	Thank you.
   
>    no, he's not kidding.  he is correct.  in addition to warming the
>    incoming air, the nose also humidifies it.

	Sorry, I find this tough to believe - Is there a significant
	difference in the length of the nasal passage between say,
	Africans and Europeans? Enough to have any effect at all on
	the warmth and humidity of incoming air?
    
    >> in a higher, cooler, drier climate, had projecting noses.  the maya,
    >> who also had projecting noses (seriously beaky roman ones!) did not
    >> live in the rainforest, they cleared land and farmed it and were
    >> thereby exposed to the sun and a generally drier air.
    >
    >
    >        Now your being just plain silly. Where did you get this from?!?!
    
 >   the place i got it from is actually two disciplines of science that are
 >   known as archaeology and anthropology.  i suggest that you might take
 >   up reading for a hobby instead of giggling at things you apparently
 >   don't understand.

	So, your going to stick by the 'Mayans have long noses because they
	cleared the land' scenario? Yucatan is a pretty wet place - did the
	ancestors of the Maya have long noses when they migrated there or did
	they develop them after large scale clearing of the Yucatan
	forests began (WAG for preclassic Mayan around 600 AD?)? Can you cite
	any studies to back this up? You are an expert in both archaeology and
	anthropology so this request shouldn't be too big a deal. I agree I
	should read more - give me your recommendations and I'll look into
	it, OK? 

    Well, thats what I get for making a WAG - 600 AD was well within the
    classic Mayan period. Most estimates of the arrival of the Mayan into
    the Yucatan area are in the 2500-1500 BC time range. Pretty recent.
    
    		Robert.

    .207
    
    > Sorry, I find this tough to believe - Is there a significant
    > difference in the length of the nasal passage...
    
    yes, actually, there is.  the passage in question is not the entire
    volume of nasal space with in the head - it's the mucous membranes of
    the frontal area, specifically the septum and the area around it.  i
    can't cite the specific studies, but the difference in humidification
    and warming has been measured, and it really is significant.
    
    > So, your going to stick by the 'Mayans have long noses because...
    
    yucat�n is a little wetter now than archaeological evidence shows it to
    have been 2000 years ago.  and rainforests concentrate what moisture
    there is.  as for whether the maya had, or developed, their long noses,
    i can't say.  but preclassical mayan was essentially pre-christian; the
    timeframe generally accepted for the height of the classical period is
    +200 to +900.  i'm not an expert.  but i've read a fair amount, and
    although i often forget the source i generally retain much of the
    information.  usually it's in the form of generalities, not names,
    dates, and places.  but fwiw, the great authority on the maya, j.e.s.
    thompson, is pretty well discredited in terms of his cultural view;
    recent computer reconstruction of temple paintings shows that the maya
    weren't at all the noble peaceniks he thought them.

    
    I think TOOK::NICOLAZZO should quit while he's still a little behind ;)
    

    Re: .209
    
    >but preclassical mayan was essentially pre-christian; the timeframe 
    >generally accepted for the height of the classical period is +200 to 
    >+900. 
    
    Let me see if I have this straight:  we toss out the semites because
    the migratory patterns evolved some 5000 years ago, and that's too
    recent, but we allow the mayans from some 2000 years ago.  Yes?

And to think...

It all started as an innocent question
about whether anyone had watched the premiere episode
of "Star Trek Voyager."

    I swear, if he calls me big nose _one more time_ I'm gonna thump 'im!

    Your nose is going to be three foot wide across your face if you don't
    shut up!

All right....  I'm warning you!!!

    Well you do have a big nose...

 man, it looks like I missed a good rathole, eh?

The best, Jim, the best.  I think this one was
a Florida-style sinkhole.

 That's what I get for not paying attention for a couple days.

| <<< Note 232.213 by MPGS::MARKEY "Wewease Woger!" >>>


| I swear, if he calls me big nose _one more time_ I'm gonna thump 'im!

	Brian, that's no reason to start preachin to him!

re: .209
    
>    yes, actually, there is.  the passage in question is not the entire
>    volume of nasal space with in the head - it's the mucous membranes of
>    the frontal area, specifically the septum and the area around it.  i
>    can't cite the specific studies, but the difference in humidification
>    and warming has been measured, and it really is significant.

	I decided to check a book on anatomy that I have in my home
	library - according to this book (just an anatomy textbook)
	heating and humidification occur in the conchae which are
	located in the internal part of the nose. The septum and the
	vestibules having little or nothing to do with it. Unless the
	text is wrong or there has been some major changes since 1981
	(copyright date), its very unlikely the external nose shape is
	involved in these functions. Did the study you mentioned above
	take the size and shape of the conchae into account?
    
    
>    yucat�n is a little wetter now than archaeological evidence shows it to
>    have been 2000 years ago.  and rainforests concentrate what moisture
>    there is.  as for whether the maya had, or developed, their long noses,
>    i can't say.

	previously, you stated :

>    ...                                                       the maya,
>    who also had projecting noses (seriously beaky roman ones!) did not
>    live in the rainforest, they cleared land and farmed it and were
>    thereby exposed to the sun and a generally drier air.
    
	I read this as saying that the shape of the noses on the maya was
	in some way affected by their activities as farmers. If I'm misreading
	this, please correct me. if I'm not, well, you are being silly.

    
>    dates, and places.  but fwiw, the great authority on the maya, j.e.s.
>    thompson, is pretty well discredited in terms of his cultural view;
>    recent computer reconstruction of temple paintings shows that the maya
>    weren't at all the noble peaceniks he thought them.

	And lovely pictures they are too! I never really knew much about
	the Maya, but had I read that J.E.S. Thompson thought that they were
	some sort of noble peaceniks, I probably would have said 'you're
	kidding, right?'.(actually, I would have said 'your kidding, right?'
	thanks again!)  I mean with what I know of their neighbors in the
	central valley of Mexico, its very very unlikely the Maya weren't
	familiar with warfare.
    

    
    
    Decided to take a chance and watch a network TV show last night....
    
    Due South
    
    
    Was pleasantly surprised....
    

    I too enjoy that show.

	I saw that too. I really liked it. 

    They make fun of Americans on that show. It's produced by Canadians.
    8^)

    .221
    
    you're right about the specifics on nasal anatomy.  as i said, i
    remember stuff but not always the exact specifics.  in any case, the
    studies i read about were pointed in saying that the extension of the
    external nose was shown to be directly related to the ability to warm
    and humidify intake air.  i'm not an anatomist, and i don't even play
    one on teevee.  :-)
    
    maya nose shape was not affected by their activities as farmers.  (that
    would indeed be a silly thing to posit.)  it was affected by where they
    (and their many-generations-past forebears) lived.  it appears that the
    maya were not among the first wave over the bering land bridge; their
    progenitors apparently also produced many of the north american tribes,
    most of which also have projecting (but not necessarily narrow) noses. 
    inference is that all of these peoples had, for many millennia, lived
    in open, RELATIVELY drier areas where having a projecting nose was
    prosurvival.  such drier areas are not found as rainforests; the fact
    that the maya cleared and farmed land, being open-space dwellers
    instead of rainforest dwellers, fits in with their physiognomy, it
    doesn't cause it.
    
    thompson's idea of the maya was indeed as noble, peace-loving
    agrarians.  he did know that they practiced human sacrifice, but he
    didn't know that they did it on a massive scale or that they used
    principally captured enemies as victims.  his magnum opus on them is
    titled _the rise and fall of maya civilization_ and it's a good read
    despite the things that are now known to be in error.  i think thompson
    sort of fell in with the "noble savage" crowd and simply overlooked
    that people, whoever they are, are human.  :-)  i mean, really, just
    look at how peacable we are here in the box are.
    
    have you seen the pictures in this month's national geographic, from
    bonampak?  among the most impressive precolumbian art i've ever seen.

    due south was okay until they stepped over the line by having leslie
    neilsen as a guest star.  i'm sure he's very funny, but i find him a
    classless clown; if i want to see good physical humor i'll watch the
    marx brothers or dick van dyke.

	Gee, I remember when he was a serious actor...... the show is off the
beaten path to begin with, which is why I think it's so appealing. Right now
Leslie is definitely off the beaten path, which is why I thought he fit in so
well.

I still like SCTV, where the Canadians made
fun of themselves!

    Ya might also like to know that Leslie`s father was a real Mounty and
    he showed the Mountie on the show how to tie his boots right. Mr.
    Neilson used to always be the bad guy and he fit right into this show.
    I liked every time he fell off the horse he`d get up and call a cab.

What about the noses on "Due South"?

    ya gotta wonder (is this a ttwa) whether the due south people expected
    viewers to catch the wonderful pun in the name of the "wolf" on the
    show.

| <<< Note 232.231 by SUBPAC::JJENSEN "Jojo the Fishing Widow" >>>


| What about the noses on "Due South"?

	What about them????

	Dick, what is the pun???

    for those who want to work on figuring out the pun in the "wolf's"
    name, there are lots of linefeeds here so as not to show the answer on
    an xnotes screen.  for the rest of you, read on.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    the animal's name is dieffenbaker.  he's also deaf.  there is a plant
    called dieffenbachia, commonly known as dumb cane.  when eaten, dumb
    cane paralyzes the vocal cords, causing temporary muteness.  since a
    mute critter can't speak or bark or whatever to make sound, it fits
    rather cleverly into the animal's purported inability to hear.

re: .226
    
    
	Thanks for the clarification regarding the Maya. I can stop chasing
	that shadow I created now. I still don't buy the projecting vs.
	flat nose thing being a result of heat and humidity. I'm not
	sure all of these minor differences in populations need be the
	result of environmental pressures at all. (I hope this doesn't open
	another rathole! :*) )

>    I think thompson sort of fell in with the "noble savage" crowd and
>    simply overlooked that people, whoever they are, are human.  :-) 

	That was a pretty common attitude at times, but at least he didn't
	claim that they learned their culture from Old World contacts or
	spacemen! :*)

>    have you seen the pictures in this month's national geographic, from
>    bonampak?  among the most impressive precolumbian art i've ever seen.
                                                  
	Yea, nice stuff!

			Robert.

	Ahhh..... I guess if someone was up on their Canadian history, they
would have gotten that on the first shot! But thank you kindly for explaining
it to those who have not brushed up on their Candadian history. All I know is
they got multiple personalities....

    .236
    
    thank you for a most stimulating discussion.

    .237
    
    canadian history?  huh?  did i miss a step here?

    The dog was named after one of our Prime Ministers.

    .240
    
    ah, that makes it all the funnier, then.  an unintentional pun...

    My .211 is feeling neglected....
    
    I have my Discover magazine on race from November 1994.  The specific
    article is "Race without Color" and it describes how you could define
    races by examining other common attributes, such as lactose tolerance
    or resistance to malaria or fingerprint patterns.  He uses these to
    illustrate reasons why characteristics spread.
    
    "Finally, some geographically variable traits have no known effect on
    survival [like resistance to malaria] and are invisible to rivals and
    to prospective sex partners [bird coloration, lion's manes].  They
    merely reflect mutations that happened to arise and spread in one area
    [fingerprint patterns].  They could equally well have arisen and spread
    elsewhere -- they just didn't."
    
    He discusses body shape as a geographically diverse trait that aids
    survival, contrasting the Inuit with the Dinkas of East Africa.  In
    that context, nose shape also makes sense as a survival trait.  But
    what about skin color (which is what started this whole discussion)?
    
    "The usual view is that skin color varies geographically to enhance
    survival.  Supposedly, people in sunny, tropical climes aroudn the
    world have genetically dark skin, which is supposedly analogous to the
    temporary skin darkening of European whites in the summer.  The
    supposed function of dark skin in sunny climates is for protection
    against skin cancer.  Variations in eye color and hair form and color
    are also supposed to enhance survival under particular conditions,
    though no one has ever proposed a plausible hypothesis for how those
    variations might actually enhance survival.
    
    Alas, the evidence for natural selection of skin color dissolves under
    scrutiny.  Among tropical peoples, anthropologists love to stress the
    dark skins of African blacks, people of the southern Indian peninsula,
    and New Guineans and love to forget the pale skins of Amazonian Indians
    and Southeast Asians living at the same latitudes.  To wriggle out of
    those paradoxes, anthropologists then plead the excuse that Amazonian
    Indians and Southeast Asians may not have been living in their present
    locations long enough to evolve dark skins.  However, the ancestors of
    fair-skinned Swedes arrived even more recently in Scandinavia, and
    aboriginal Tasmanians were black-skinned despite their ancestors'
    having lived for at least the last 10,000 years at the latitude of
    Vladisvostok.
    
    Besides, when one takes into account cloud cover, peoples of equatorial
    West Africa and the New Guinea mountains actually receive no more
    ultraviolet radiation or hours of sunshine each year than do the Swiss. 
    Compared with infectious diseases and other selective agents, skin
    cancer has been utterly trivial as a cause of death in human history,
    even for modern white settlers in the tropics.  This objection is so
    obvious to believers in natural selection of skin color that they have
    proposed at least seven other supposed survival functions of skin
    color, without reaching agreement.  Those other supposed functions
    include protection against rickets, frostbite, folic acid deficiency,
    beryllium poisoning, overheating, and overcooling.  The diversity of
    these contradictory theories makes clear how far we are from
    understanding the survival value (if any) of skin color.
    
    It wouldn't surprise me if dark skins do eventually prove to offer some
    advantage in tropical climates, but I exppect the advantage to turn out
    to be a slight one that is easily overridden.  But there's an
    overwhelming importance to skin, eye and hair color that is obvious to
    all of us -- sexual selection.  Before we can reach a condition of
    intimacy permitting us to assess the beauty of a prospective sex
    partner's hidden physical attractions, we first have to pass muster for
    skin, eyes, and hair.
    
    We all know how those highly visible "beauty traits" guide our choice
    of sex partners.  Even the briefest personal ad in a newspaper mentions
    the advertiser's skin color, and the color of skin that he or she seeks
    in a partner.  ...  Eye color and hair form and color, while not so
    overwhelmingly important as skin color, also play an obvious role in
    our sexual and social preferences.  Just ask yourself why hair dyes,
    hair curlers and hair straighteners enjoy such wide sales.  You can bet
    that it's not to improve our chances of surviving grizzly bear attacks
    and other risks endemic to the North American continent."

    That's why I like this medium so much, finally people see me as more
    than just another pretty face.  ;-)

	When did they ever see you as that???

    I'm not telling YOU Glen.

	BUMmer....

    precisely

re: .144, dick

>    			an excellent strategist does not make it his
>    policy to send down shore parties comprising the three or four most
>    valuable, and most nearly irreplaceable, personnel on his ship.  kirk
>    was a study in bad command.

Well, I think TOS would have been pretty boring if they'd always sent unknown
crewmembers down in the away teams and then spent the whole show concentrating
on Spock, Kirk, Uhura, Chekov, Sulu, Scotty and Bones sitting around on the
bridge discussing the price of dilithium crystals . . . 

    jack, i never said tos wouldn't have been boring if they'd done it
    right.  but then i do recall some anthology shows from the '50s that
    were downright excellent.  you never saw the same actors in two
    episodes.  so send unknowns on shore parties and follow them down. 
    remember, every big name started out as an unknown - give 'em some
    exposure while the rankers, about whom we don't give a rat's patootie,
    cool their heels up there waiting for the organians to permit
    communicators to get through.

	I'll say one thing for William Shatner, he has made a living on
overacting. The OST, ST movies, TJ Hooker, and singing, "Lucy in the sky with
diamonds"!


Glen

    Well, he's toned it down considerably on his TEKWAR tv series. I must
    admit, it's not a bad production. In fact, there have been a few
    episodes where Shatner wasn't even on.

	Glenn, I have seen that. And yes, it is a very good production. And
yes, he has seemed to calm down a bit.... 

    The TekWar productions are pretty good TV SF.  Shatner's the executive
    producer, so he probably doesn't have time for more than a recurring
    character.  And Bascomb mostly conveys information instead of finding 
    himself tested by fire, so he doesn't have much opportunity to get
    worked up.

    Finally watched a full episode of ST:Voyager...not impressed.  Acting
    is not good (in general), story was unoriginal, and the writing/dialogue 
    was uninspiring, to say the least.
    
    I see a bit of light if a few characters develope properly (I like the
    black vulcan, but I wonder if this is just a pc thing), I like the 1/2
    Klingon lady (but she needs further development), and I like the 
    appearance of the new ship.
    
    I have to take back what I said previously about the hologram
    doctor...I think there is good opportunity for comic relief here.  I
    especially liked the shrinking bit "Would someone PLEASE come down and
    fix my projector?!".  Oh well, I'm easily amused, what can I say?
    
    -steve 

    If Vulcans existed, would they refer to the dark-skinned among them as
    "black Vulcans?"
    
    

    nope, African American Vulcans.

Vulcans of color.

    But don't all Vulcans have colour?
    
    That's like calling someone a coloured guy.

    
    I am pinkybeige in colour.

    I wonder if Tuvok  has green blood... Klingon blood seems to vary
    between pink, purple and red.
    
    The really incredibly unbelievable wondrous thing about ST isn't
    warp drive, transporters or wormholes, it's how all those alien
    folk from all over the galaxy all speak english. No ESL cultures 
    out there, eh?

    They all speak English cause it's a TV show and people wouldn't go for
    subtitles.

    I remember back in high school, I remember one of the classmates, who
    was also a good friend, referred to himself as "colored" and not
    "black" or "afro-american". We used to have some strange
    pseudo-theoretical discussions, about strange stuff like why the 
    art teacher, Mr Bradshaw, would state that black was the absence of 
    color, where white was the presence of all colors. So I used to joke
    with him, using that "logic" that I was the "colored" one, not he.
    So far, from the one show I have seen, Tuvok doesn't seem to be as 
    analytical and scientifically precise as good ol' Mr. Spock was.
    
    According to TV guide, he was a runner-up for Geordie Laforge's 
    position, after LeVar Burton. He played a Klingon or two in TNG and
    also had a part in the "Generations" movie, so he is no rookie to the
    Starfleet. They also seem to have the rubber-ear thing down pretty
    good, now. I'm just waiting for the split-hand salute and for him to say
    "live long and prosper..."                                     
    

    Since I'm not going to hunt about for a Waco note, assuming one even
    exists:  A&E's "American Justice" is doing a show on the whole Waco
    incident tonight at 9 or 10.

| <<< Note 232.260 by CSSREG::BROWN "KB1MZ FN42" >>>


| Klingon blood seems to vary between pink, 

	I think I might be Klingon.....

    .260
    
    they don't all speak english.  as was made clear in the trial in st vi,
    translators are used - the klingon translators are obviously less
    advanced than federation hardware and must be carried in the hand.
    
    as was less clear to the public but was nevertheless stated early on by
    gene roddenberry, the st crews carry translators.  we don't know how
    the things work or what they look like, but there was some suggestion
    that it might be through the crews' chest badge insignia, which are (as
    made clear in tng) communicators.  kirk was unable to understand the
    gorn in arena because he was transported by the metrons with nothing
    that might be of use to him.
    
    or maybe they have babel fish.

    
       Well, I missed last week's round, but I saw ST Voyager again
     last night.  In fact, on the channel I was watching, it followed
     a Picard STNG rerun.
    
       It's too bad this is such a stinker.  The only hope is that the
     captain lady gets phazed, or maybe is assimilated to the Borg.  And
     she can take pretty-boy with her.
    
       This ST organization is very professional, and so they can be
     entertaining even with key roles played by zombies, just from
     sheer creativity.  But don't follow Picard with this tripe !
     I suppose they thought it would work as a lead-in.
    
       Ha !  bb
    

    >It's too bad this is such a stinker.
    
    That's the minority view, from all I've seen.  You want stinkers? 
    There's the one with the Enterprise morphing into some weirdo temple
    and Data cackling in various personalities.  There's the one with the 
    crew devolving into various animal life forms.  There's the one with
    Dr. Crusher doing flashbacks on her investigation into the death of the
    Ferengi scientist.  Need we continue?

    the ultimate star trek stinker was spock's brain.  no competition.

The old series had some stinkers as well.

Spock's Brain, and how about the one with the aliens torturing McCoy to
see if the mute woman would save him?

(I can see it now, a network bigwig going to the producer "Gene, your show is
_way_ over budget.  If you can produce an episode or two _real cheap_ we won't
cancel it.." So he produces this one, no background props needed at all (it's
pitch black!) for most of it, one alien was just a pretty woman and the others
were recycled "brainy-head" costumes) 

    I like the new ST Voyager series. It's first two episodes are way
    better than it's predecessors. 

    And the opening credits are great!
    
    Captain Janeway is doing just fine by me.
    
    Glenn

Captain Janeway needs a new hairdo.  She looks
like an Old West schoolmarm.

    She could probably use a warm moist rogering too.

    Would that help to hold her hairdo better?

    It would force her to, at least.

Whatever it takes, loosen the hair a little.
You could throw a chair at that style she's
sporting now.

Maybe that's the point, though.  A hair style
constructed to withstand all manner of inter-
galactic adventures without moving.

	She let her hair down in last night's episode, something Pickard could
NEVER do! :-)  She was quite attractive with it down.


Glen

Last nights episode was a not-so-subtle dig at nuclear power.  There seem to
be too many cracks and fissures in space, time, etc. in STV.

Bob

    
    Janeway is a little WASP for Star Trek, isn't it?
    
    

    Bottom

    
    Well, they were better on the feminist ST last night, but the plot
    wasn't.  It was a warm-over of a 20-year old one from traditional ST.
    
    I've noted that to true Trekkie's, there is no such thing as satiety
    howsomever.  So I guess this one gets a B-.
    
      bb

    Maybe tonite's "calling the romulans thru the wormhole" story will 
    be better, I hope, they got a long way to go to get it right...
    Even Bab5 is giving STV'ger a strong run for its money.

    Things to hate yesterday: The Simpsons in Australia.  Probably the
    worst Simpsons yet.  What was the point?  And not funny.

	Anyone see Star Trek Deep Space 9? It was about some ancient text that
can be interpreted many ways to mean many different things. I wonder what they
were talking about?

 beats me...

    
    
    The Constitution of the United Planets?

    Re: .284
    
    >I wonder what they were talking about?
    
    Nostradamus, no doubt.  (BTW, Revelations was a very controversial
    inclusion in the Bible; somebody had a good lobby.)

Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 20:53:07 -0800 (PST)
From: [email protected] (William Glover)
To: [email protected]
Subject: NRA-TV 2-15-95 short transcript
Message-Id: <[email protected]>

Background...
NRA-TV is the official NRA TV channel. NRA bills it as the weekly
magazine of news and views for gun owners.

NRA-TV is on Galaxy 7 transponder 20 at 10:00 PM EST, broadcast 
weekly on Wednesday. The network that NRA-TV is on is called 
NET(National Empowerment TV), the phone number is 800-5000-NET.

NET is a non-profit TV channel and will gladly accept donations at
the above phone number.

AND THEY LISTEN...they have a new internet account, [email protected] for 
feedback on the show.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Not surprisingly, HBO (a Time/Warner company of course) has a
    certain infatuation with the Soviet Union.  Still, they have
    managed to turn out two fine made-for-cable movies with the
    USSR as a backdrop. The first was Stalin, starring Robert
    Duvall. The latest is "Citizen X", starring Donald Sutherland
    and Max Von Sydow (among others, of course).
    
    Citizen X is the story of the police "militia" that was
    responsible for tracking down the person responsible for
    the sexual mutilation and murder of 52 people, 36 of which
    were under the age of 17, making him the most prolific
    serial killer in USSR (if not world) history. [I guess that
    genocide is not considered serial murder... or else the USSR
    would have held that record too with Stalin].
    
    Citizen X is a study in getting things done in a bureaucracy;
    and in police methods in the USSR. Among the more charming
    aspects was how homosexuals were routinely rousted and
    detained during the 8 year investigation; until a certain
    party boss was confronted with his own appetites...
    
    -b

    
>>    the person responsible for
>>    the sexual mutilation and murder of 52 people, 36 of which
>>    were under the age of 17, making him the most prolific
>>    serial killer in USSR (if not world) history. 

	I do believe that would be Andrei Chikatilo, except that I 
	think I might be spelling that wrong.  An extremely scary
	guy.

    I do believe you are right... spelling and all.
    
    -b

    One of the producers remarked that after he met the guy, he was
    extremely put off the idea of telling his story.  That's why it's about
    the investigation, rather than the killings.  (He said that life in the
    Soviet Union drove him to kill, and now that the Union has been
    dissolved and the way of life is so different, he should be released.)

    Well, they can release him if they want. Only problem is,
    he was executed approximately 45 minutes after he was
    sentenced (something the USSR got right). I don't know
    who that producer was talking to...
    
    -b

	.292  A read of _Hunting the Devil_ would no doubt convince
	you that there's no way that that animal should ever have been
	released.  A total sicko.  

    Re: .292
    
    >A read of _Hunting the Devil_ would no doubt convince you
    
    Where did you get the impression I needed convincing?
    
    >that animal should ever have been released.
    
    Where did you get the impression that he had been?

    
>>    Where did you get the impression I needed convincing?
    
	I didn't.  Chill out.  I was just recommending a book,
	for crying out loud.

>>    Where did you get the impression that he had been?

	I didn't.  I knew he had been executed.

    Re: .296
    
    >I didn't.
    
    Then don't say things like "would convince you."
    
    >I didn't.
    
    It parses that way.

	.297  look, you misinterpreted what i wrote - don't blame 
	      me for that.  end of discussion.

	Hey you 2.... stop that! you sound like Joe and I!!!!

tv snarf

    
    
    Anyone see Chicago Hope last night?
    
    I watched it for the first time last night, and thought
    it was pretty hysterical.  The whole scene around the
    heart transplant was a great bit.
    
    And my vote for the best line on television in recent 
    memory :
    
     "... and I pull a Bill Buckner with the heart!"  
    
    I nearly fell off the couch laughing.
    
    Walt
    
    

	Anyone see the Comedy Awards last night on ABC? I was flipping through
the stations when this comedian was on. I knew the face, but not the name.
Anyway, he was talking about winning an award, and he said one of the
qualifiers was that you had to do 4 abortions or less. I nearly died. He went
on to say that sometimes comedians overstep the line, which he might have done.
Anyone know this guys name?


Glen

 Gee, the guy sounds hilarious...

    Actually, I gather that the "history-making-moment" from last night's
    Comedy Awards will probably turn out to be slightly sordid, and not
    terribly funny.  
    
    Jon Lovitz, presenting some award to Jamie Leigh Curtis, grabbed her 
    breast in front of television millions, causing her to retaliate 
    by grabbing his crotch, which caused her father, Tony, to jump up 
    and cheer more than the award she won!
    
    M.

 Ah, TV at its best...

    
    
    I caught about 5 minutes of that show.  The Rodney Dangerfield portion. 
    Now, that guy is funny.
    
    
    Mike

    FC St.Pauli was in CNN World Sports, just for the record.
    I doubt that Reading FC ever was, for example.

	On the new star trek, someone mentioned how the voice of the new
captian sounds to him. After watching this weeks episode, I agree with his
analogy. Now it's going to be hard to watch without this same thought
reoccuring. Oh... the person she sounds like? Mrs. Conehead. :-)


Glen

  When ever I see her I can't stop thinking about Columbo's wife.

  I can just imagine him back home driving around in his old gray car catching
murderers and wondering when Mrs. C is going to come home.

  George

    The Funky Squad - Without a doubt, the best thing Australia has to
    offer !!!! It is brilliant !!!!!

re: 502.74
    
    What I do remember about "My Little Margie" is that Margie used to
    look right into the camera and make an exasperated "Grrrrrrrr!"
    when things were going awry.
    
    Whoops, I didn't mean to say that the series was made in the 40's
    (I think it ran from 1953 to 1956, or thereabouts), but I think it
    was made to resemble those 40's comedy films where "everything went
    wrong", usually with a female comedienne type and a sidekick.  Vern
    always seemed to be wearing a baggy old 40's kind of suit. :-)
    
    
    >> My Dad (may he rest in peace) took me to
    >> see Gail Storm sing live in a nightclub in Las Vegas in 1956.
    
    Hey, that was lucky... she was one of my early kiddie crushes (I
    must've started young).
    
    >> It was called "I Remember Mama".
    
    Aha... in one of my TV books, I have an excerpt from an "I Remember
    Mama" script that will probably put a lump in your throat.  Very nice
    old-fashioned sentimentality, but not wrung out of you like they do
    these days.  I'll see if I can dig it up and send you a copy.
    
    For another slice-o-life 1950's domestic show, check out "The Life
    of Riley".  I have a few episodes on videocassette, and they were
    somewhat surprising (the show frequently became "serious", which
    I'd completely forgotten).
    
    Chris

  I don't remember a lot about My Little Margie, other than I was in love
 with Gail Storm.  I could be wrong, but I seem to remember her recording 
 a song or 2.





 Jim

       In daze of your, some TV shows would always end with the same
       line.
       
       In My Little Margie, the show always ended with Charlie Farrell
       (the father) saying, "That's My Little Margie!"
       
       "Sergeant Preston" always ended with the beloved Mountie fondling
       his dog and announcing, "King, this case is closed!"
       
       There must have been others.  (Well, Dragnet always ended
       with the gavel coming down on MARK VII, but I'm not sure if that
       counts.)

'Tweren't no gavel.

'Twere a five lb. sledge.

       
       Right you are, Wrong I am.

I recall one particularly memorable Get Smart show, where Barbara Feldon
(Agent 99) is attempting to soothe Don Adams (Agent 86), who is grieving
over the loss of Agent 43: "Oh Max, you're worth two 43's any day!"

Roger Bacon couldn't have writ better.

    
      Thanks, Chris.  Yes, this belongs over here - the gender-school
     thing sent me into hyper-time-warp yesterday, sorry.
    
      Of course, like all drama/acting, the shows weren't exactly
     representational - they were as idealized and unrealistic in
     their way as Bill Cosby's Huxtables were recently, and that
     holds for good shows and bad.
    
      Nevertheless, what IS real, and I think can be educational, is
     the underlying, unthought-of assumptions behind them, assumptions
     that simply wouldn't hold today, but did then, without thinking
     about them.  One of these was what might be called, "male deference".
     In the mid-fifties, a man in the presence of women had a DIFFERENT
     CODE OF CONDUCT than when not, and all males knew it and were
     trained in it.  To understand us dinosaurs, if they think it's
     worth the bother, 'Box boppers can get a taste of the prorocol from
     these old shows.
    
      bb

    .312
    
    Gale Storm.
    
    NNTTM.

 BIIOTY

    If you're a meteorologist, "Gale Storm" is a pretty funny name...
    
    Gale Storm actually won her name in a talent contest.  She was born
    Josephine Owaissa Cottle.
    
    Chris

RE: .317

I received the following via E-mail today (as a joke) and thought it quite 
appropriate to your note.


HEADERS AND FOOTERS REMOVED

The following is from 1950's Home Economics textbook intended for High
School girls, teaching how to prepare for married life.

1.  Have dinner ready:  Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a
delicious meal - on time.  This is a way of letting him know that you have
been thinking about him, and are concerned about his needs.  Most men are
hungry when they come home and the prospects of a good meal are part of the
warm welcome needed.

2.  Prepare yourself:  Take 15 minutes to rest so you will be refreshed when
he arrives.  Touch up your makeup, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh
looking.  He has just been with alot of work-weary people.  Be a little gay
and a little more interesting.  His boring day may need a lift.

3.  Clear away the clutter.  Make one last trip through the main part of the
house just before your husband arrives, gathering up school books, toys,
paper, etc.  Then run a dust cloth over the tables.  Your husband will feel
he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift, too.

4.  Prepare the children:  Take a few minutes to wash the children's hands
and faces if they are small, comb their hair, and if necessary, change their
clothes.  They are little treasures and he would like to see them playing
the part.

5.  Minimize the noise:  At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of
washer, dryer, dishwasher or vacuum.  Try to encourage the children to be
quiet.  Be happy to see him.  Greet him with a warm smile and be glad to see
him.

6.  Some Don'ts:  Don't greet him with problems or complaints.  Don't
complain if he's late for dinner. Count this as minor compared with what he
might have gone through that day.

7.  Make him comfortable:  Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or
suggest he lie down in the bedroom.  Have a cool or warm drink ready for
him.  Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes.  Speak in a low,
soft, soothing and pleasant voice.  Allow him to relax and unwind.

8.  Listen to him: You may have a dozen things to tell him, but the moment
of his arrival is not the time.  Let him talk first.

9.  Make the evening his: Never complain if he does not take you out to
dinner or to other places of entertainment; instead, try to understand his
world of strain and pressure, his need to be home and relax.

10  The goal: Try to make your home a place of peace and order where your
husband can relax.

    
    
    You wimmin payin attention?

 Every once in a while MST3K runs a short feature that looks like that
 sounds!




 Jim

>>    You wimmin payin attention?

	some of us only had to watch our mothers in action to know
	the routines.

    
    re:.321

    I ain't gonna touch that right now,.... that sucker is glowin' hot

    :-)
    Dan
    
    But that is kinda what my mom told my sister in her adolescences...

    
    
    So MiLady, did you learn well?
    
    (Okay, you owe me a smack next time we meet :'))

    
>>    So MiLady, did you learn well?

	oh yes, trust me, i learned quite well indeed.

    
    	is it getting warm in here? 
    
    

    
>>    	is it getting warm in here? 

    well, if it is, it's not my doing.
    i'm quite cool.
    
    

> Be a little gay and a little more interesting.

If he found out she was a little gay, it would certainly be interesting.

    .330
    
    gay  adj.  Formerly, an adjective that could with impunity be applied
    to anyone, but which must now be used with extreme circumspection
    because it imputes certain behavioral characteristics about the nature
    of which most people profess to be blissfully ignorant.
    
    	Don we now our gay apparel,
    	Fa la la la la la la la la...
    
    			- Christmas carol, "Deck the Hall"
    

    
    So we all have to dress in drag, eh Dick?

     <<< Note 232.331 by SMURF::BINDER "Night's candles are burnt out." >>>

>    because it imputes certain behavioral characteristics 
    
    	AHA!!!  Even the Curmudgeon's Dictionary says it's
    	behavioral!!!   :^)

    .334
    
    > Even the Curmudgeon's Dictionary says it's
    > behavioral!!!
    
    The Curmudgeon's Dictionary was first published in 1983.  We've learned
    a little since then.  :-)

    .336
    
    > hasn't learned that it can update such things
    
    If the editor did that, it wouldn't be the Curmudgeon's Dictionary, it
    would be Frederick Stenger's Dictionary.  From reading both the first
    and second editions, I get the impression that Stenger concentrated his
    efforts more on adding new entries than on revising those of the
    original author.

    TV TTWA:
    
    When I was a kid, I hated "The Munsters", because it compared
    unfavorably to its more sophisticated sister show "The Addams
    Family", and so I never watched it.  Lately though, I've been
    watching it on Nick at Nite, and I'm amazed that it's actually
    eliciting a chuckle or two.  I'll chalk this up to aging, I
    suppose.
    
    Every once in a while they slip in a little understated zinger
    line, and I wonder what they're up to.  One of last night's such
    lines was uttered when Herman sold off some bogus vacation land
    that had been sold to him by a couple of shifty operators (approx.
    quote, except for the last several words:)
    
    	I sold the land to a big missile corporation... when times
    	get tough they'll solve all our problems by blowing up the
    	whole world.
    
    Completely understated, just tossed off, nothing said about it
    before or after.  Weird...
    
    Chris

    
      Thanx Chris, for Margie/Mama stuff in company mail.  I am fighting
     back a nostalgia attack as I type.
    
      bb

    Yeah, that's fun stuff... if I ever win Mass Millions, I'll
    startup a little cable station that shows nothing but old
    sitcoms like this, at least the ones that still exist (Margie
    should still be around, but I'm afraid that Mama isn't).
    
    Chris

    
    
    Just a thought.....
    
    
    I have not watched television since last thursday! :*)
    
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    
    didn't miss much

    All you missed was the bizarre image (which I caught whilst
    channel surfing) of a woman all dressed in white as if she
    were getting married, but instead standing in front of a casket
    with a kid.  Very strange.
    
    Must've been that golddigger there, whatshername, who'd married
    the rich 2000-year-old man.
    
    Oh, you also missed Lily Munster telling Grandpa about living in
    "some damp, cold cave", but she dropped the "p" in "damp", so it
    came out as "some damn cold cave", which was good for a brief
    chuckle.
    
    Chris

Watched a great documentary on PBS last night - "Apollo 13, to
the Edge and Back".  It was made in 1994 and I imagine that Ron
Howard watched this more than a few times before making his film.
I couldn't believe that I still got emotional about this even though
I don't remember the event, the space program doesn't generally
interest me, and I already knew it was a happy ending.  It's just
a terrific story.  Did you know that John Aaron (the guy working to
figure out how they could get extra voltage) was only 27 years old?
I can't imagine having that kind of responsibility now, never
mind in my 20's.  And the emotion in the voice of (?? - the Ed
Harris character) when he was trying to describe how he felt when
he saw the re-entry  ("it was neat") brought a tear to my eye.

    I saw that Apollo 13 documentary too.  It was pretty good, but
    what made the whole thing so moving (as well as astonishing)
    for me was seeing that tough old bird Gene Kranz.  I've read
    a lot about him over the last 25+ years, and it was quite the
    moment to see him get all choked up over the mission 25 years
    later.  At the point where his emotions got the better of him
    (as it were), he spat out an r.o., and then moments later,
    he apologized (whether he apologized for the r.o. or for "losing
    control" is an interesting exercise).  In any event, to see
    this tough-as-nails guy so moved over everyone's efforts to
    save these three guys so long ago was definitely a lump-in-the-throat
    maker.
    
    Chris

    Tonight 10 PM EDST ABC   Ruby Ridge

    
    	A&E started a new series called "Crime and Science" this past
    	Sunday at 10PM EST.  [I missed it because I forgot it was on
    	until last night!!]
    
    	I believe it's a weekly show, and if you remember the "Quincy"
    	TV series then you know what it's about ... forensic medicine,
    	etc.
    

    I saw one of those "Crime and Science" episodes by accident
    (you never know what you'll find in channel-surfing mode),
    and it was about as exciting as watching paint dry.  Maybe
    it was just a slow crime week or something, though, and I'll
    give it another chance next time it pops up.
    
    Chris

Did anyone else watch Murphy Brown last night?  Paul Reubans (sp?-
aka Pee Wee Herman) had a guest starring role and he was
HILARIOUS!  I hope he becomes a regular.

    Yup.  Yup.  Yup.

    I'd long since given up on "Murphy Brown", and happened upon last
    night's hilarious episode only through the luck of channel surfing.
    I missed only the first few minutes.
    
    What a great episode!  Not only is Reubens "back" (to stay, I hope),
    but they've brought back a great character whom the producers had
    stupidly thrown away in the series' early seasons, that vacant
    blond news guy (can't recall the character's name).  When they
    first introduced that character early on, I'd been hoping they'd
    have Corky marry him and make him a regular, but no.  What a loss...
    
    Anyway, it's the first time in years that I've laughed out loud
    at a "Murphy Brown" episode.  It was good to see Garry Marshall
    in the role as Reubens' boss, as well.  The not-so-in-joke about
    "Laverne and Shirley" was funny.
    
    I guess I'll have to start watching this again.  Maybe they'll
    bring back the painter guy (Eldin?).
    
    Chris

    I always knew _somebody_ had to watch Murphy Brown.

    Well, it sure hasn't been me, for years.  Their ridiculous one-sided
    political slams completely turned me off.  They even worked in one
    last night against Buchanan, even though it was a complete non-sequitur,
    but they just couldn't go through an episode without an in-your-face
    to the conservatives in the dwindling audience.
    
    Now, I could have forgiven all that, if the show had continued to be
    funny over the years, but it wasn't.  They'd lost it after a few
    seasons, probably around the time of Corky's divorce.
    
    Chris

I don't usually watch it either, but I saw a preview for last night
that looked pretty funny and wasn't disappointed.  I was flipping 
between that and the football game.  I can't believe Detroit beat
my 49ers  :-(

    >Well, it sure hasn't been me, for years.  Their ridiculous
    >one-sided political slams completely turned me off. 
    
     They were in competition with Designing Women to see who could fit the
    most anti-conservative slams in one episode...

    Yes, someone must be as they were nominated for 1, many, some emmys for
    the 88 straight year.  Just another reason not to watch network
    television IMO, YMMV, etc.

    Eahh, Emmys are crap anyway.  For example, back when "Golden Girls"
    was on, the Emmy people felt compelled to nominate three or four
    of them every year like they were joined at the hip or somethin',
    thus using up most of the available nomination slots, and leaving
    everyone else out in the cold for years.
    
    Chris

    > Best performance by four people insulting each other
    
    No, that would "Crossfire."
    
    -b

    or The Capitol Gang

    
    There's five of them... HTH.
    
    -b

    
    I like the bumper sticker I saw not too long ago...
    
    
    "Kill your TV"
    
    
      Thank goodness for the History, Learning and Discovery channels...
    

    .362
    
    > Thank goodness for the History, Learning and Discovery channels...
    
    What are these, on cable or something?

    I suppose you use bunny ears Hare Binder?

    
    I saw some of `Deep Space Nine' last night, for some reason.  
    A 2-hour show.  Must have been the season opener.
    
    Anyway...my TTWA:  Are Klingon "warriors" the most hapless in the 
    galaxy?  They seem to be easily defeated in both ship-to-ship and 
    hand-to-hand combat by Starfleet and its officers.  Perhaps Starfleet
    should have a reputation as the most fearsome warriors in the Alpha
    Quadrant.
    

    The Klingon philosophy is a losing one, they need to get beyond the
    quest for glory and honour in battle. Also, their philosophy and
    lifestyle has left them poor and divided while the UFP has progressed
    and created wealth and well being.

    .365
    
    My wife said the same thing.  Worf seems to constantly get beaten in
    any hand-to-hand activity.
    
    To paraphrase an old joke : Klingons - attack from the rear and wipe
    'em out.

    Well I watched yet another episode of  the original on Wednesday 
    night and it was great as a always. That William Shatner... what
    an actor !

     "STARDate...2257...rounded off to the nearest decimal point... we
    MUST...find a CURE...for Bones."
    
    "I canna DO it Captn... I DOWNT HAF the POWer."
    
    "DAMNit Jim, I'm a DOCtor, not a POOL-MAN."
    
    

    Great movie that one !!!

    
      Bab five - caught a piece of one the other day.  Am I mistaken, or
     is this actually a better product than "Lost in Star Gak" ?
    
      bb

    It had a Dune kinda feel to it.

    There is a comedy show on TV over (down) here called 'Full Frontal'. 
    It is very funny and I reckon it's the best show of it's kind. Last 
    nights episode has me in stitches.

    Is "Fast Forward" still showing?  I thought Steve Vizard was a pretty
    funny guy...

    i've heard of that but can't answer your question. Chele ?

    	 would like to see Mr. Nye the Science guy more often but...

    
      Joe Lieberman (Democratic senator from Connecticutt) and Bill
     Bennett (former GOP secretary of education) are screeching about
     these new-type prurient daytime TV talk shows.   You know, the
     ones where the mother admits sleeping with the daughter's boyfriend ?
     Apparently, this is a VERY profitable business.  One of the hosts
     claimed 4.5 million viewers and almost no cost.
    
      bb

    That would have been Sally Jesse Raphael.  These bozos are fools.  
    If folks wish to watch that trash, let them.  Rikki Lake, Charles 
    Perez, SJR, Donawho, Oprah, etc. pander to the sensational same as 
    A Current Affair, Entertainment Extra, etc., etc., etc.  Erosion of
    freedoms in action folks, right before your very eyes.  What we have
    here is bi-partisan buffonery.  Toss in the labelling requirements for 
    music with explicit lyrics as another misguided attempt to regulate 
    morals.  
    
    Brian

    
    
    Was channel surfing last night after returning from the wake, and
    stopped at one of the major networks.. (NBC?) It didn't look right, so
    I glanced in the TV Guide...
    
      They're putting those freakin, stupid soap-operas on prime-time
    now!!!!!!!!
    
    
      Dumb!!! Dumber!! Dumbest!!!! What was it called?? "As the turd
    whirls"???
    

RE: 232.379 by SOLVIT::KRAWIECKI "Been complimented by a toady lately?"

> Dumb!!! Dumber!! Dumbest!!!!

Switch to PBS.


Phil

>> "As the turd whirls"
    
    < Insert guffaw choked-off for the sake of adjacent office dwellers,
      which I've developed by now into a fine art. :-) >
    
    I cannot believe how bad television has become, both daytime and
    evening.  For pure awful-ness, I give the edge to daytime because
    it has become wall-to-wall sleaze, directly reflecting both the
    nosedive of society's values and our utter lack of shame or
    embarrassment over any sordid personal aspect of our lives and
    others' lives.
    
    I used to be a TV junkie, and now I only rarely go near the thing.
    I was home sick on Monday and tuned into the daytime stuff, and
    couldn't believe how much worse it's gotten just in the last couple
    of years.
    
    It's depressing to think that these people's votes count the same
    as everyone else's.  There's no hope, folks.
    
    Chris

    
    
    Actually, with the way a lot of telelvision is these days, Beavis and
    Butthead ain't too awful bad.  At least they're trying to be stupid.
    
    Mike

       I especially enjoy the advertising on TV.  It used to be that all
       the TV stations would proudly proclaim their adherence to the
       National Association of Broadcasters' code, which established
       limits to the amount of advertising/hour (it was either 6 or 8
       mins/hr).  This was really awful, as it provided a woefully
       insufficient opportunity for me to be told about the Miracle Mop
       and Folger's Coffee and the fine programs that I could enjoy some
       other evening.
       
       It's especially nice to enjoy a movie on commercial TV, or one of
       Ted Turner's fine cable stations.  The first 30 minutes are
       commercial-free, so that you'll get interested in the thing, and
       from then on the movie:advertsiement ratio is about 3:5.
       
       It really sucks to watch PBS (except during the beloved pledge
       weeks) or AMC or probably the pay channels, cause they don't stop
       the shows to let you get up and pee.
       
       --Mr Topaz

    
    The hell with Bennet and the politicians complaining about it!
    Maybe they should clean up the sleaze and cheap talk practiced
    every day in Washington first. You know, set an example.
    
    On a lighter note, I absolutely love the old
    Clive James Postcards series.
    He has a wonderful irreverance and sarcasm that makes his
    narrated visits to foreign lands a joy to behold.
    
    						Hank (noting again)
    

    Mr. Topan, perhaps you should have a chat with Mr. Catheter Problem
    before you watch your next movie on PBS.

    
    re: .381
    
    >Switch to PBS.
    
    See previous... re: channel surfing... Actually I wound up watching an
    interesting program on TLC... along with some "tlc" after my long ride
    back from Clinton MA...
    

    
    Ah, but was it a longer ride TO Clinton, MA 8^)?
    
    

    
    
    Could've been... ;) ;) ;)
    

re Steve Vizard

He is now a management type rather than a performer - he at least part owns 
the production company that produces Full Frontal, Big Girls Blouse, Jimoin 
and various others. Tonight Live finished up a few years ago.


\C

    Re Clive James: A postcard from .....
    
    They have just finished the re-runs of that series downunder. I too
    think he's great !

    CBS Playhouse put on a most excellent "A Streetcar Named Desire"
    last night.  Jessica Lange, as Blanche, was fabulous.  Alec Baldwin
    played a very good Stanley.  John Goodman as Mitch was a tad
    disappointing; and whoever played Stella put in a solid performance.
    
    I love this play.  I make it a point to see every possible rendition
    that I can.  I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.

Another terrific Simpsons Halloween special.

    
    "Wow, this place looks expensive.  I feel as though I'm wasting 
     money just standing here."
    
     It was AXE-cellent!   :^)
     

    >> whoever played Stella put in a solid performance.
    

Caught John Carpenter's "Body Bags" on UPN this evening. Not half bad.

From:	PONYEX::PONYEX::MRGATE::"NEMTS::SALES::A1::ADVERTISING"  1-NOV-1995 09:17:20.09
To:	@Distribution_List
CC:	
Subj:	Digital's Worldwide Brand Advertising Campaign                         1

From:	NAME: Corporate Advertising          <ADVERTISING@A1@SALES@AKO>
To:     See Below

From: Jeffrey Brooks @AKO, DTN 244-6234
    

	On Sunday, Nov. 5, Digital begins its second year of brand 
advertising with a new ad campaign created by DDB Needham Worldwide.  
It's the most widespread communication yet of the company's direction 
for the future -- "connectivity."  

	That week, a special issue of "Digital Today" describing and 
illustrating our worldwide brand- and product-focused ad campaign 
will be distributed to all Digital facilities worldwide and to our 
partners in the Americas.

	Connectivity means connecting people to people, people to 
information, and companies to companies.  Digital is in the best 
position to provide that connectivity.  The advertisements you'll see 
over the next few weeks and months will deliver this message in 
forceful and compelling terms.  

	In the United States, Digital's brand advertising will appear 
primarily on Sundays in selected broadcast and cable TV programs -- 
sports, news and entertainment; on radio nationwide; and in 
newspapers and business magazines.  Product- and service-specific ads 
will appear in business and information technology publications.  
This high-impact television and business print activity provides a 
broad umbrella under which all Digital products and services will 
fit. 

 	The brand ads complement Digital's ongoing product and service 
advertising, which many of you have seen, and reinforce the company's 
contemporary market-direct approach and "voice," which separates 
Digital from its competitors.  These ads have much in common with and 
compliment the advertising for Digital's Personal Computer Business 
Unit, which is created by Young & Rubicam.  As you'll see, both 
efforts "speak" in a confident, assertive voice.

	The advertising also acknowledges the complexity of today's IT 
environment.  It recognizes that no one knows exactly what the future 
will bring -- not us, not our customers, not our competitors.  But 
Digital positions itself by defining how it supplies infrastructure 
tools so flexible, they can make the future work, whichever and 
whatever that future turns out to be.

	The TV commercials and print ads will feature the tag line, 
"Digital...Whatever It Takes."  This statement communicates the 
position and differentiation of our company on several levels.  It's 
a declaration of:
    
    	o  our ability to provide connectivity, to anticipate change, to 
           respond to customer needs and protect customer investments; 
           
    	o  our willingness to incorporate, integrate, and maintain 
           whatever operating system or hardware clients require; 
    
    	o  our intent to compete vigorously and ethically; and
    
    	o  our willingness to work hard on behalf of our clients.  
    
    	In a very real sense, "Whatever it takes" reflects our 
    willingness -- your willingness -- to go above and beyond standard 
    expectations.
    
    	The new campaign is worldwide.  For the first time, Digital will 
    air brand advertising on TV in top overseas markets, such as London 
    and Tokyo.  These commercials will commence in Q3.  
    
    	We've also worked with our agency's extensive global network of 
    offices to translate and adapt the campaign for local markets.  Each 
    image and line of copy will be honed country by country.  While the 
    voice is constant, the European and Asian influences for the ads that 
    run in those markets will be unmistakable.  
    
    	In particular, specific local adaptation of the "Whatever It 
    Takes" tag line is under way.  Some countries may choose to retain 
    the original tag line because of its distinctively American flavor.  
    Other countries may translate or modify it, as appropriate, to meet 
    their cultural needs. 
    
    	I am convinced this new campaign accurately reflects Digital's 
    image as a truly global company.  The ads communicate our message -- 
    connectivity, power, strategic alliances, services, and globality -- 
    strongly and clearly.
    
    	The TV ads that begin on Sunday in the U.S. will be followed by 
    network radio starting Monday, Nov. 6.  A three-page ad will appear 
    in the "Wall Street Journal" on Tuesday, Nov. 7.  In Canada, the 
    campaign kicks off the week of Nov. 5 with ads in broadcast and print 
    media.   
    
    	The schedule of the TV ads in the U.S. and Canada is listed 
    below.  More information about the new brand advertising campaign -- 
    including the four-week schedule of TV, radio and print ads in the 
    U.S. and Canada -- will appear in LIVE WIRE and the Information 
    Repository.  I encourage you to watch and listen for these 
    advertisements in your local media.  We look forward to your feedback 
    and comments.
    
    Regards,
    

    
    U.S. Media Schedule for Sunday, Nov. 5 (subject to change)
    
    Network             Program
    
    ABC			"Good Morning America/Sunday"
    ABC			Sunday Movie
    
    Fox			National Football Conference Game
    
    NBC			"Sunday Today"
    NBC			American Football Conference Game 1
    NBC			American Football Conference Game 2
    
    TLC	          	"Scientific American World"
    			"Wonders of the Universe"
    			"Science Frontiers"
    
    TDC 		"Time Traveler"
    
    A&E			"Screening Room"
    
    Canada Media Schedule for Week of Nov. 5
    (Ads begin airing on Monday, Nov. 6 and are subject to change.)
    
    CBC			"Fifth Estate"
    CBC			Prime Time News
    
    Discovery Channel	"Beyond 2000"
      (Canada only)	"Hi-Tech Culture"
    			"On the Internet"
    			"Wings"
    
    Global TV Network	"Early News"
    			"NYPD Blue"
    			"Late News"
    
    NewsWorld		"Business World"
    			"On the Arts"
    			"Pacific Rim Report"
    			"The Lead"
    			"Pam Wallin Live"
    
    Showcase		"Phoenix" 
    			"Crocodile Shoes"
    			"Festival Films"
    
    TSN			"Grand Slam Golf"
    			"SportsDesk"
    
 Distribution:
 This message was delivered to you utilizing the Readers Choice delivery 
 services.  You received this message because you are a Digital employee.  
 If you have questions regarding this message, please contact the author.
 

    
      [from Lowell Sun Entertainment section, 11/6/95]
    
        Oprah Winfrey says she's shocked, just shocked.
    
        After hearing recent criticism of talk shows, the queen of the
      genre did a little channel surfing of the competition and got a
      taste of trashy TV that she says nearly drove her to consider
      quitting.
    
        "I wonder, is this a sign that my time has come and gone ?"
      Winfrey wrote in a commentary in the November issue of TV Guide.
      "Should I just get out of the business and let 'Kissing Contest,'
      'Men Who Are Dogs,' and 'Big Butt Contest' rule ?"
    
        Winfrey is "embarassed by how far over the line the topics have
      gone," but she acknowledges that some of her early programs
      contributed to the problem.  For the past few years, however, she
      has been urging viewers to demand high-quality, uplifting television.
    
    

    <-- pot and kettle, IMO.

    Now that she's made her millions she gets religion? How conveeeenient.

        >> "I wonder, is this a sign that my time has come and gone ?"

    It's extremely unfortunate that her time ever came in the first place.
    It should have been gone 13 weeks after it started, max.
    
    What a hypocrite, trying to take the high road after starting this
    whole trend.  Not only did she drag the whole thing into the sleaze
    pond, she's managed to be a contributing factor in destroying families
    as well.
    
    How, you ask?  There's a lot of impressionable borderline "head cases"
    out there who sit around all day and soak up all this drek that Oprah
    and her ilk wallow in and spew all day.  Then, guess what happens at
    night?... these psycho-imbeciles "map" all that junk into their own
    lives and project it onto their families.  I've seen it happen,
    particularly (but not exclusively) with my own sister.  Sure, she'd
    always been "eccentric", but she tore her family apart with this crap,
    and it wouldn't have happened without Oprah's vehicle pounding it into
    her warped head every day.
    
    Chris

    Some FOX affiliates have a program called NightStand, which is a really
    sharp jab in the butt of the trash talk shows.  It's HILARIOUS.  I saw
    it once in Florida during recent vacation and just about laughed myself
    silly.

    NightStand is definitely hilarious, and worth seeking out.  I saw
    it by accident (as with most other shows) one night, and for a long
    time I thought I was seeing an actual trash talk show.  When it finally
    dawned on me that I was seeing a beautifully-executed spoof, I damn
    near fell apart laughing.
    
    Chris

	Dick Binder almost silly.....that would be a sight to see!

    What night is this silly show on?

	Thursdays at 9:00. Dick is replacing Jessica Landsbury in, Murder He
Wrote!

    The Orland station runs NightStand Saturday at midnight, right after
    MAD, which latter is a pale imitation of the original SNL but vastly
    better than the current SNL offering.

I think I saw it on Global after SNL last week - Dennis Miller was supposed 
to be on, but I fell asleep before I saw him.  Like Chris, I thought this
was a real trash show at first - real good spoof. (So is the Larry Sanders 
show in case anyone hasn't seen it yet)

I forget which topic had the "Friends" discussion going.... but did
you ever wonder how Rachel and Monica can possibly afford the loft
in NYC?  I mean Rachel is a waitress at a coffee shop and Monica
is unemployed!  And where the heck does Phoebe live anyway?  We've
see everyone else's apartment but hers.  

    ^I mean Rachel is a waitress at a coffee shop and Monica is unemployed!
    
    Maybe that's only their day job!  :)

    
    	Maybe Phoebe contributes some of the wealth she amasses from her
    	lucrative guitar performances into the "Rachel and Monica" fund.
    

    
    well Rachael is definitly boinkable. Yes she is.

    
    I hear that a spinoff of `Baywatch' is going on the air soon, a new
    series called `Bikewatch', featuring the adventures of the beach
    bicycle patrol.
    
    Eeeeesh.
    

	Joan....just think. For the hets out there, babes with boob-cake-like
kahannas will be riding their bikes on the beach... bouncey bouncey bouncey...

    Baywatch has already spawned another jiggle fest.  Baywatch Nights. 
    Add it to the list of high quality programming available like Friends,
    Rikki Lake, the mid-day FOX triad of mutant du jour freak, er, talk
    shows, <insert any sitcom here>.  

    
    hey, hey, I like Friends

    
    	Me too!  You cannot compare "Friends" with the silly
    	talk show stuff......
    

    
    
    Yeah... "Friends" is such a true-life, realistic show....
    

    Christ, why watch that crap at all?  Weren't y'all bitching about
    hollyweird a while ago and how they should straighten up?  Hell
    you have to be in a coma to watch that crap.  I thought the cops
    and FBI were supposed to rustle up all the bad guys anyway, not
    the chicks in the g-strings.
    
    Oh well, I've seen them (ladys) nekkid anyway.
    
    MadMike

    
    
    	re: Andy
    
    	Actually, to be honest, I have been able to relate to some
    	of the storylines.  Some aspects are out there, yes, but
    	for the most part I find it a funny show and I can relate
    	to some of the characters.  As can other friends of mine.
    	A very good friend in fact, *is* Chandler from that show.
    	Both myself and his sister tell him all the time.......  =)
    
    	To each his/her own....
    

>   <<< Note 232.419 by VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK "Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly" >>>
    Hell you have to be in a coma to watch that crap.

Opiate of the masses, and all that.
Kill your television. Live happier, more active, more productive lives.

 For a brief period of time last week, I was considering buying a 27inch
 stereo whoopdeedoo TV..til I realized how much I hate TV.




 Jim

Yabbut the 27-inchers are really neat for watching a good movie on tape, Jim.

 You had to say that, didn't you, Jack

Of course!

    Yeah, but a 31" TV is the minimum you really want for a home theater
    set-up.   8^)  (TV may suck, but selective movie renting can be very
    entertaining- especially in surround sound)

Is there some relationship between the TV picture size and room size?
I believe I have heard that watching too large a TV can be tiresome
work if you have to move your eyes too much because the screen is
beyond some threshhold of screen size and dustance from screen ratio.

    
    	All I know is that there's an inverse relationship between TV
    	size and penis size.
    
    	8^)
    

    
    >All I know is that there's an inverse relationship between TV
    >size and penis size.
    
    	Please don't tell us more about how you came to know this.

 is dustance the measurment of dust on the screen?  Maybe that's my problem

    So Shawn, how's your new 75" rear projection unit doing?  

    re: .427
    
    >Is there some relationship between the TV picture size and room size?
    
    Actually, room size is not the relevent issue (in itself), but the
    distance between your normal seated position from the TV.  I forget the
    actual formula used, but the larger the TV, the farther you need to be
    seated from it (unless, of course, you have one of those front
    projection TVs with a line-doubler/quadrupler- an expensive affair, to 
    say the least).
    
    The reason isn't so much eye fatigue, as it is scan lines.  If you are
    sitting too close to a large-screen TV, you can too easily see the
    scan-lines, which makes for a perceived diminished picture quality. 
    The bigger the TV, the more relevent this issue becomes.
    
    For my 31" TV, 8-9' distance seems to work well.
    
    
    -steve 

    
    > 	All I know is that there's an inverse relationship between TV
    > 	size and penis size.
    
    hhhmmmm... I don't have a TV.... I wonder what that means... ;->
    

    You are asexual, NNTTM.

    .433
    
    it means you have a open receptacle to plug into.

    This troubles me.

    <-- as well it should!

| <<< Note 232.433 by DEVLPR::DKILLORAN "No Compromise on Freedom" >>>


| > 	All I know is that there's an inverse relationship between TV
| > 	size and penis size.

| hhhmmmm... I don't have a TV.... I wonder what that means... ;->

	It would destroy all my illusions..... ;-)

| <<< Note 232.435 by LANDO::OLIVER_B "hysterical elitist" >>>

| it means you have a open receptacle to plug into.

	If only this were true.... ;-)

    
    "Merry Christmas, Mr. Bean"
    

    
>    "Merry Christmas, Mr. Bean"

    that was purty freakin' funny.  the nativity scene thing was
    great.
    

    
    .441
    
    Agreed.  I'd seen the "turkey" part before, but I hadn't seen the
    "nativity" part 'til last night.
    
    When the Dalek destroyed the little lamb, I just about soiled my armour.
    

    .438
    I always thought that it was penis size = pistol size...not T.V. size!

Yeah, every computer geek knows that it's RAM size that counts!

    >I always thought that it was penis size = pistol size...not T.V. size!
    
     You sure about that, Mr Derringer?

    Speaking of penis size, did you know that it took only 
    18 months to erect the Empire State Building?  A mere
    year and a half.  I find that incredible.

    
    "In Xanadu did Kublai Khan..."
    

    
    	There's a new "Mr. Bean" out??
    
    	Does anyone know where I could buy VHS tapes of all his episodes?
    	I haven't seen them anywhere.
    
    
    	And BTW, my TV is a 20" Panasonic Stereo model.  Wise guy.
    

    interesting tidbit on the Empire State Bldg, but what's more unusual
    is that it is, in fact, still erect after all these years...

    Not only that, it's still standing up too!

    
    	Hmmm, if they ever make a "First Family II", maybe the daughter
    	can "sacrifice herself" there.
    
    	[Or am I the only one that ever saw this move?]
    

    Shawn, "The First Family" was a record album by Vaughn Meader.  There
    was a First Family II, and I have a copy.

    
    	I know that ... I have at least 1 of them, if not 2.
    
    	I was referring to the Bob Newhart movie, with Gilda Radner as
    	the daughter.
    

    |interesting tidbit on the Empire State Bldg, but what's more
    |unusual is that it is, in fact, still erect after all these years...
    
    indeed!  especially when you consider that a 10-ton B-?? aeroplane
    flew smack dab into it in 1945!  it shuddered, but stood tall!

    -1 yeah, that too!

    
    	And don't forget that King Kong hung off of it also.
    

    i think someone should do a tv documentary on the ESB.
    someone like that civil war guy.

    Is that ESP /nasser style?

    
    	Don't you mean \nasser
    
    	?
    

    first nasser, now topaz.  
    hey, i just inadvertently typed a cute face.  wanna see it?
    
    
                                 ;p

   .460  i am in the process of coveting that face now. 

	 okay, i'm done.  

    
    	Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's face.
    

    You can use that as your sign off Bonnie.  we can then refer you to the
    Glyph that used to be known as LANDO::OLIVER_B 

    Oph the Glypher?

   you know, when i first saw Oph in the lobby of the Yangtze River
   restaurant, i suspected it was her (perhaps due to the air of
   total brilliance that surrounded her.  perhaps not.)  anyways,
   i almost walked up to her and said, "Oph?", but then it occurred to
   me that perhaps that wasn't the optimal greeting, particularly in
   the case that it wasn't her.  so i didn't.

   i love sharing these little stories with you.

re .465:

I once saw something about a woman who was making a rendezvous with another
woman named Gay.  She didn't know what Gay looked like.  You can imagine
the rest.

    "Pardon me, I'm looking for someone named Gay. Might that be you?"

>   i love sharing these little stories with you.



   and we're all the more better for it..
   Thanks for sharing..





 Jim




 

    di - i knew it was you in the lobby.  i think the host even
    used your name when he spoke with you.  but i'm sorta shy, so 
    i waited for the formal intros...
    
    oph

	Shawn... don't know if anyone told you..... but.... Gilda Radner is
dead...

    
   >restaurant, i suspected it was her (perhaps due to the air of
   >total brilliance that surrounded her.  perhaps not.)
    
    
    	Is this the same way you knew it was me when I walked into
    	Rocco's?
    
    
    	RE: Glenn
    
    	I didn't say Gilda would have to be in the sequel.
    

  .471  i'm sorry... have we met?

<---yeah, Richardson! Gilda wouldn't have to be in the sequel. She'd be rotted!

    
    	RE: Diane
    
    	[sniff!]
    
    
    	RE: Glen/Glenn
    
    	Glen/Glenn ... what's the difference??
    

  shawn, i'm not sure what it was.  attitudinally, it just seemed like it
  must be you.  somehow.  it's a pretty subtle thing.

    
    	Oddly enough, Shawn was the most quiet person at the
    	Yangtze River.
    
    	I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that I didn't
    	stop talking the whole time.
    
    

   .476  we were lucky lucky jack wasn't there, that's all i can say.
	 what a blabbermouth he is.  i mean, you just can't get a 
	 word in edgewise.

    
    	Karen I was mesmerized by your presence, and even if I could
    	have spoken, words wouldn't have done the moment justice.
    

    
    <vacuum-cleaner noises>
       

    Shawn, Sean, what's the difference?

re: Di

It's due to all the time I spend in Laconia.

    
    	RE: Glen[n]
    
    	>Shawn, Sean, what's the difference?
    
    	I've been called both, and worse, so there's not much difference
    	to me.
    

    
    Shawn was quiet because he has a hard time figuring out what's going on
    around him.  Needs everything explained to him, don't you know.
    

    Well, neither of those is my name, so I wouldn't answer to them.

   .481  are you blaming Harley exhaust fumes for something?  is
	 that it?

    
    > Well, neither of those is my name, so I wouldn't answer to them.

    Unless, of course, either one became part of your heralded
    schizoid brood...

    -b

    Oh, well, yes, them, I forgot about them. The medication is helping.

    The "Lost in Space" cast was in Boston last week.  Dr. Smith was on the
    Brudnoy show Friday evening.  He was a riot.  One of the questions a
    caller made was...
    
    "Jonathan, if the goal of the mission was to go to Alpha Centuri, then
    what was the practicality of sending the Robinson family considering
    the intent was to colonize?  
    
    Jonathan Harris' response was, "Well, the robot and I always got along
    pretty well."  
    
    Coming from him, it had me in stitches!

| <<< Note 232.474 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Great baby! Delicious!!" >>>



| Glen/Glenn ... what's the difference??

	One is a full time poof, the other just has a poof personality.... one
of many different personalities.

    re: Lost in Space
    
    Ha... sorry I missed that, Jonathan Harris is a character.
    BTW, he despises the guy in the robot suit, Bob May.  I don't
    know if that came out on this round, or if he held it in check
    because May actually showed up at this particular convention to
    get into the reconditioned robot suit.
    
    As for the question (why send the Robinsons to colonize), the caller
    didn't pay attention to the first episode, where they state that the
    Robinsons were to be the first of ten million families (or even ten
    million families a *year*, I forget which) to be sent to Alpha
    Centauri.  This was to help ease Earth's overcrowding, supposedly.
    
    Hmmm... 10,000,000 spaceships to Alpha Centauri to solve
    overpopulation.  Aren't condoms cheaper?...
    
    Chris

    Not only that, isn't Alpha Centauri a star?!

>    Hmmm... 10,000,000 spaceships to Alpha Centauri to solve
>    overpopulation.  Aren't condoms cheaper?...

Mebbe the Vatican was funding the project.

    doesn't explain how the robinsons had so few kids.

| <<< Note 232.491 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

| Not only that, isn't Alpha Centauri a star?!

	She appeared in 2 episodes of Doctor Who. 

  .493  i suspect those outfits were really hard to get out of.

    
    	Just because the Vatican funded the project, doesn't mean the
    	Robinsons were strictly "missionaries".
    
    	[wink, wink, nudge, nudge]
    

Sinners, all.

    >> Not only that, isn't Alpha Centauri a star?!
    
    Yep, but in an astonishing display of scientific accuracy that
    was rarely matched in the rest of the series, the first episode
    went out of its way to say that they were going to a planet
    orbiting the star Alpha Centauri.
    
    They even got the travel time right, roughly five years at near
    the speed of light.
    
    Chris

    Karen Saved Me!!!

    Robot Snarf!

| <<< Note 232.499 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

| Karen Saved Me!!!

	I thought it was supposed to be Jesus that saved you? 

    
    "so few kids"?  They had THREE!  That's a flippin' ARMY of kids!
    
    
    

Awright, awright, that's enough! Knock it off! Back to the subject, or
to your room, NOW! ;^)

    
    	3 is an army ?  Gee, I guess I'll have a small nation
    	on my hands by the time I'm done having kids ;-)
    
    

    Thus saith the baby macheeeeen!

        Let us give her a standing ovulation!

    
    Stop egging her on.
    

   .506  there's a fallopian a little silly.

    looks like zygote here too late.

    Yes, I'm going down the tubes.

    >looks like zygote here too late.
    
     No need for uterus.

    Inconceivable!

        I just dilated the wrong phone number!

    You shouldn't use your dictaphone.

    
    
    	don't be such a dictator...
    
    

    
    	I see I started a little punfest here.
    
    	Glad to be of cervix!
    

    hysterical, wasn't it?

    
    All this baby talk is making me kind of nauseous, selfish non-gravida
    that I am.
    

    what were you expecting?

    Surely, you gest. 

    re: .454
    
    B-25 Mitchell medium bomber
    

    
    	It has been kind of laborious, I'll grant you that!
    

    re: .519
    
    >what were you expecting?
    
     The insertion of a comma at just the wrong spot could get you smacked
    but good! :>

    Yes, that's why I gave that comma a wide birth.

    I guess people's love of puns have been born out in this topic.

    
    	You meant "borne", of course.
    

    Perphaps he can enter a contraction to his last note.

    
    Obviously, you're in a moment of transition...
    
    -b

    Is that like a midwife crisis?

    I think we're pushing it here.

        I'm always obstetrics.

  .531  you're not quite as pediatrics as some others in here though. ;>

        That would be a breech of protocol.

    
    Take it to the TTMYGT note, _please_!  Just the thought of conception,
    much less childbirth, makes me queasy.
    
    

        Ultrasound advice if ever I heard it.

   .535  oh my - that was a good one.  <applause>

    I just can't picture it.  I guess I'll have to let it gestate a little
    longer.

    You might find a picture in the C section of your paper.

    
    	Otherwise known as the "Indoor Sports" section?
    

        <--- that was a fetal attempt at a pun.

    Nice post partum there Glenn.

    No, it's come to a head.

    If it doesn't stop soon, someone is likely to get slapped.
    
    DougO

    RE: .545

    Wouldn't that be a miscarriage of justice?

    -- Dave

    
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

 TV people TV!

TVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTV
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TVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTVTV

    If you put in TV, do you get a womb with a view?

        I'll feel better after about forceps of coffee.

    What did one frisky new born say to the other just after being born?
    
    
    
    Your placenta or mine?

<--was that a fetal attempt at humour?

    Glen, see .540

    
    	I saw a McDonald's commercial last night that had me laughing
    	so hard, I was crying.
    
    	It's a Dad and his toddler trying to have lunch at McDonald's.
    	Trust me, the little tyke wasn't acting!
    
    

| <<< Note 232.554 by POLAR::RICHARDSON "CPU Cycler" >>>

| Glen, see .540


	EEEEK! Sorry... I will pay you your royalty now.... 

    You could have used "fetal attraction" glen, that's close.

    
    	>I saw a McDonald's commercial last night that had me laughing
    	>so hard, I was crying.
    
    	>It's a Dad and his toddler trying to have lunch at McDonald's.
    	>Trust me, the little tyke wasn't acting!
    
    
    And you people wonder why I don't want children 8^).
    
    
    

    
>>    And you people wonder why I don't want children 8^).

    the kid's adorable though, he really is.
    
    
    

    
    
    	Actually, mz_debra, after 232.534, I wonder no longer.
    
    	(FWIW, conception wasn't a terrible experience at my house ;-) )
    
    

    >(FWIW, conception wasn't a terrible experience at my house ;-) )
    
    <smirk>

 Our cable company blessed us with 2 new channels this week..The House and
 Garden Network and FX (which appears to broadcast old network reruns and
 a bunch of other garbage).



 Jim

My cable co. picked up FX at the beginning of the month, too, Jim. Although
there are no listings available for it yet, they appear to carry some
interesting stuff - Mission Impossible, Swiss Family Robinson, Batman,
Green Hornet, etc.

	Tonight, on Roseanne, her gay business partner gets married and they go
to the wedding. They moved the time from 8:00 pm (where she has been averaging
a 14th place finish for the week) to 9:30 (where Coach, who was in the 60's
last season, has been in the top 10 all year). I think her ratings will go up
this week. Fraiser, and then Roseanne. Good night for tv. 



Glen

TTWA:

> Fraiser, and then Roseanne. Good night for tv. 


(Sorry, Glen.)

 Another reason I hope my TV self destructs soon..



 
the slide continues (tm)

I know Roseanne is this fat ugly lady who's always on the covers of the
tabloids, but who's this Fraiser?  And is it really spelled thay way?

Signed,
TV-less

    
    `Fraiser' is portrayed by Daryll Strawberry.
    

Agagagagagagag!

  I'll confess to having watched Roseanne, once, when it first joined the
  TV lineup.  I've never watched a complete episode of Frasier.




 Jim

Most "spinoffs" seemed to be doomed from day one. I've yet to see
one that comes close to being as good as its source.

    don't be too ruff on him

>Most "spinoffs" seemed to be doomed from day one. I've yet to see
>one that comes close to being as good as its source.

I dunno... I thought "After M*A*S*H" was a classic...  ;-)

Seriously... I like "Frazier" a lot. I don't have much time to watch it,
with 1 toddler and 1 infant, but I do get a kick out of it (I think his
brother is the best character...)

/scott

    
    	I don't think that's the same Christopher Lloyd from "Taxi",
    	though.  The same guy also does/did "Wings".