Conference 7.286::sports_91

    
    B.A. (Does that stand for body arachnids? ;^)  )
    
    	Ga. Tech is the COdefending national champs.  Go Buffs!
    
    HTH,
    
    Claybone

    
    .1�    	Ga. Tech is the COdefending national champs.  Go Buffs!
    
    	On this side if the Mississippi Ga Tech is the "only" national
    champs..I knew I'd be hearing from you! :*)
    
    B.A.= BullSh*t Artist! :*)
    
    B.A.

    
    The ACC peaked this past year in a season the likes of which they 
    won't soon see again.  In general, the ACC teams also need to 
    start picking up some tough non-conference games if they want to gain 
    true national respect (and I'm not talking about a couple of games 
    with Georgia and Va. Tech, either).  Maryland's the only team the last
    couple of years that has had the guts to pony up with the big boys,
    and of course they paid for it...
    
    Either this year or next, I think you'll see North Carolina win the
    ACC, believe it or not.  (Unless Florida State starts their ACC
    schedule within that timeframe...)
    
    glenn
    

    
>    	On this side if the Mississippi Ga Tech is the "only" national
>    champs..
   
    Geez, you mean all you East-coasters suddenly dumped the most
    recognized poll, the AP?  :)  I can imagine what it's like in Georgia. 
    I assume you can't buy a thing that denotes CU as National Champs, just
    like you can't find any GT National Champ stuff here.
    
    RE .3
    Doesn't FSU start playing an ACC schedule this coming season?  I think
    I recall hearing where some of their traditional rivalries may be
    cancelled due to their joining the ACC, such as games against Miami,
    Auburn, and Florida.  I would think the last one FSU would want to drop
    would be Florida, with that being such a great intrastate rivalry.
    
    As for GT this coming season, I would expect them to be ranked fairly
    high going into next season.  Going by how many GT players getting
    drafted (or not drafted, actually), it looks like they have quite a few
    starters returning.
    
    Joe 
 

    
    	No doubt that Fla.State will carry the load for the conference..but
    I still thnk they will catch some stiff competition from the other
    schools...Ga.Tech, State and Clemsuck...Not in that order.
    
    	The ACC has added more Div.I  teams to their schedule too support
    the Notre Dame theory...The better the teams, the more you learn. But
    you have to realize that the ACC went with only one bowl loss last year
    with 4 teams in...not too bad!  At least I think that's right...Va lost
    I know...
    
    
    Better times are a comin' to the ACC!
    
    B.A.

    .1�    	Ga. Tech is the COdefending national champs.  Go Buffs!
    
    >>	On this side if the Mississippi Ga Tech is the "only" national
    >>champs..I knew I'd be hearing from you! :*)
    
    No C.U. is still National Champs over there too.  
    
    >>B.A.= BullSh*t Artist! :*)
    
    And he proves it by calling GT the National Champions.
    

     Before we go any futher, This is the official meaning of ACC.
    
    
    A nother
    C lemson
    C hampionship
    
                                J.R.
    

    .6�    No C.U. is still National Champs over there too.  
    
    	Better listen again...Ga.Tech National Champs!  Not the galloping
    herd of nerds!
    
    B.A.

    re-1,
    
    Almost
    Close
    Clemsuck with it's refs!
    
    B.A.
    

    Ga Tech. 
    
    America's 
    Charlatan
    Champs.

    
    	Ga.Tech
    
    	America's
    	Choice for
    	Champs....
    
    How's that? :*)
    
    B.A.

      What is the big fuss about Georiga Tech. They finally had a good
    record. Don't you think it was about time. Everybody is due a good
    season sooner or later. 
    
     O.k. Tech fans, I know it felt good being "co" National Champions.
    
     But I will tell you this much. It feels alot better being
                              THE NATIONAL CHAMPION
    
     I know because I am a Tiger fan!!!!!!
    
     As for Dick Sheridan being the best coach in the Country. 
    B.A. you must think ol Dick still coaches at Furman. 1-AA
    What has he done any better than any other coach since he
    been coaching in the ACC?
    
     As for Virginia, they're history since the old Moore boys
    are gone to the NFL. I feel sorry for Virginia this year.
    
     I said it before and I'll say it again,
                        Clemson ACC and National Champs!!!
    
    J.R.
    
    
                        

    .12�    What has he done any better than any other coach since he
    .12�    been coaching in the ACC?
    
    	Only been coach of the year twice!  How many does Hatfield have? 
    
    	I'll tell you...El zippo! that's how many!  How about Danny Bored?
    
    	Hell, he probably bought his!
    
    	Take a look back....to the 3 STRAIGHT years your Tiggers lost to
    the might pack!  Had all of you tigger faithful crying for Danny's job!
    
    	What a loyal fan you guys are!  Win or Hang em'!  
    
    B.A.

    Well B.A., What good is coach of the year if he can't win the
    ACC Championship.
    
    Talk about El zippo! That's exactly how many ACC Championships
    he has won.
    
    
    J.R.
    
    P.S. How many National Championships has North Carolina State won
         in Football?
    
                          
    
    
                          
    
    
    
    
    
                           EL ZIPPO!!
    

    
    	How many did Clemsuck PAY for..1..and then they paid for that! Can
    you say P R O B A T I O N ???? You should! They've been on it enough
    times!  What a loser they are...
    
    B.A.

    Now that the ACC folks are doing a great job of tearing each other to
    shreds, the rest of us can return to our regularly scheduled programs,
    which is to say *major* college football...
    
    glenn
    

 Sigh.   Somewhere out there in that vast empty wilderness, there
 really are ACC football fans who can engage in meaningful and
 rational conversations using lots of interesting polysyllabic words.
 
 Somewhere ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    Speaking a intelligent rational conversations, a question to axe: 
    
    		Do any a the ACC "football" squads plan to play
    		a top-tier Div. I grid squad this year or is it
    		gonna be another pussy flexing exercise like last
    		time around when you all perpetrated that fraud
    		that came unravelled on New Year's Day?
    
    Big10 Tom

    .18�    		Do any a the ACC "football" squads plan to play
    .18�    		a top-tier Div. I grid squad this year or is it
    
    	Yeah! Indiana!
    
    Re-Bob...
    
    	I'm a very responsible football fan..I'm just giving the gang heck!
    
    B.A.
    

     Hey little 10 Tom,
    
                             CLEMSON  30
    
                             ILLINOIS  0
    

     Looking at this from an objective view point, The ACC seems to be
    on a trend upward, while The Big Ten seems to be going downward
    fast with just a bunch of average teams. This is due to more talent
    coming out of High School in the South.
    
    BIG "O"
    

    .18�    		time around when you all perpetrated that fraud
    .18�    		that came unravelled on New Year's Day?
    
    	How many of the Bigget10 teams won their repsected bowel? The ACC
    only lost 1 I'm proud to say! Thank You!.
    
    	B.A.
    

>    	How many of the Bigget10 teams won their repsected bowel? The ACC
>    only lost 1 I'm proud to say! Thank You!.

Respected bowel?  Gee, would that be Colonel Colon, or His Honor the Intestine?

Which bowel did the ACC lose?  Don't tell me that one of the coaches had
a hunk o' his intestine removed?  

many 8^)
'Saw

    .23�Which bowel did the ACC lose?  Don't tell me that one of the coaches had
    .23�a hunk o' his intestine removed?  
    
    	Try the second biggest bowel!  The sugar!  That's right! a
    legitimate bowel!
    
    B.A.

 B.A.,
 
 If you don't mind, please don't bring up last year's Sugar Bowl for
 discussion in here.
 
 My beloved Wahoos were last year's biggest bowl sluts as they raked
 in megabucks and didn't really deserve the Sugar Bowl bid.
 
 I was pleased by their gutsy performance against a bigger and better
 Tennessee team but the Sugar Bowl people paid dearly in bad publicity
 for inviting the Cavaliers before they really should have.
 
 Bob Hunt

    re-1,
    	sorry! I'll be wery,wery wuite!
    
    B.A.

     Don't feel to bad Mr. Hunt, The only megabucks Virginia will get
    this year is the money Clemson will have to share with them and
    the rest of the ACC, when they win the National Championship.
    
    J.R.
    

    .27�    the rest of the ACC, when they win the National Championship.
    
    	So Clemsuck has already paid off the NCAA again! What a shame! I
    was looking forward to this year too...It'a about time the NCAA gave
    the tiggers a boot in the ol As* again for life! Give the the Pro
    thing...as in Pro-bation!
    
    B.A.

     I'm not really a big Clemson fan, but I must admit Clemson beats
    quality teams from around the Country year in and year out in
    quality bowl games. Unlike N.C. State or should I say B.A. State,
    who go to TOILET bowls and struggle.
    
    BTW, As far as paying off the NCAA, no one does it better than
         Jimmy "THE CROOK" Valvano.
    
    BIG"O"
    

    .29�    BTW, As far as paying off the NCAA, no one does it better than
    .29�         Jimmy "THE CROOK" Valvano.
    
    	How about Danny Bored? He did a fine job..twice!
    
    B.A.State! sounds good to me!
    
    	At least I know where my money goes...

    .30     At least I know where my money goes...
    
    
                  Yeah, we know B.A.
    
                          A loser.
    
    J.R.
    

    .31�                  Yeah, we know B.A.

    	To getting "Quality" coaches that don't recruit guys with cars or
    boats...i.e  Michael Car(r).

    	I'll put Sheridan up against Hickfield anyday! No contest!
    
    B.A.State

     Seems to me that Hatefield is already up 1-0 against Sheridan and
    his Wolfpunks.
    
     One more thing, If Hatefield can keep a team in the SWC clean, where
    it seemed just about every other team was on probation at one time
    or another he certainly will have no problem keeping Clemson clean,
    and on top.
    
     J.R.
    

> If you don't mind, please don't bring up last year's Sugar Bowl for
> discussion in here.
    
    Why, cause you've been so kindhearted when other folks favorite schools
    get beat in big games?!  Sorry Ketch, but no mercy from me.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    VIRGINA LOST!!!!!! HAW HAW!  HEH HEH!  HA HA!  HO HO!!!
    
    YUP, THEY REALLY SIPPED THE BIG 'UN!!!!  BIG-TIME CHOKE JOB!!!!
    
    VIRGINIA, ......  LOST.  (AND IN A BIG WAY, TOO.)
    
    SAY, WEREN'T VIRGINIA THE #1 TEAM IN THE COUNTRY FOR AWHILE BEFORE
    FOLDING UP SHOP???  YUP, SURE WERE!!!!!
    
    PSSST.  DID YOU HERE THAT VIRGINIA LOST IN A NEW YEARS DAY BOWL GAME
    THAT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN INVITED TO?!  YUP, SURE 'NUF!!!!
    
    

    Clemson *usually* beats other conferences' runners-up and also-rans in
    the ACC's home bowl, the Florida Citrus, or some other secondary bowl
    (Gator, Independence, etc.).  It's rare indeed that an ACC team gets 
    to see the Orange, Sugar, or Cotton and face off against another 
    conference champion.
    
    Short of undefeated seasons like Georgia Tech's last year or Clemson's
    in 1981, I expect the situation will remain pretty much the same until 
    the ACC teams come out of their holes and start playing better 
    opponents, where they can get some much-needed national exposure from 
    the tube.
    
    Didn't I read recently that the new Big East, the ACC, the Big-8 (I
    think), and Notre Dame (another new conference consisting of one
    member) were talking about teaming up in a rotating bowl system
    designed to further muddle the national championship picture come
    January 2?
    
    glenn
    

 Good one, Soup.    Musta felt good for you.   
 
 Of course, you did conveniently ignore the simple fact that I was not
 referring to the Wahoos' actual performance in the game itself
 against Tennessee.   No, I was referring to the fact that the Sugar
 Bowl Committee shot itself in the foot by inviting them way too early
 and that the Hoos then did the Bowl Slut Boogie down Bourbon Street.
 
 But, on the field where it counts, Tennessee was a 6 point favorite
 over the Wahoos in the Sugar Bowl.  The Hoos ran all over the Vols in
 the first half much to Michaels' and Dierdorf's astonishment.    The
 Hoos then hung on until the bitter end when the vastly bigger, more
 talented, and much healthier Vols scored a last-second TD to win by a
 single point which, of course, made the Wahoos the betting winners in
 Las Vegas.
 
 The Wahoos then actually jumped *UP* quite a few notches in the final
 post-season polls based on their gutty but, yes, futile effort in New
 Orleans.  The Wahoos outplayed the Vols all the way until the
 disappointing end and got quite a bit of praise and recognition for
 it.   They actually redeemed not only themselves but the Sugar Bowl
 Committee, too, for its' ill-advised early invitation.
 
 Let's contrast that particular non-excellent loss with someone
 else's.    Let's see now, who else do we know who was a 6 point
 favorite but failed to cover ???   The Tar Heel hoopsters, of course,
 not only failed to cover their 6 point spread over Kansas but they
 lost the game outright.
 
 So, if you really want to enjoy that woodie of yours, go right ahead. 
 The sad truth about the Mighty Choker still awaits you after you've
 cleaned it all up.
 
 Bottom line ...
 
 Am I satisfied with the Hoos' Sugar Bowl loss ???   		No way.   
 Am I satisfied with their effort ???  				Way.
 
 Can you say the same thing about the Baby Blue Gagjobs ???   I
 sincerely doubt it.   So stroke it if you must, dude.
 
 Bob Hunt

    News...

    	The yahoos are under investigation for too many football
    scholarships....the great and all mighty NCAA is looking into it.

    	A couple of Tech players have been arrested for stealing cars in
    Fla...and two other players were arrested for something else(?) sorry I
    forgot what it was...

    	Looks like fun time in the NCAA court room!

    B.A.

 �   	The yahoos are under investigation for too many football
 �   scholarships....the great and all mighty NCAA is looking into it.
 
 You can imagine that this little piece of news gave me the "Oh, No!"
 shivers.   So, I searched the papers lasted night after I got home
 for more information on this thing ...
 
 I don't recall the names of the players involved but the Virginia
 football team was carrying the NCAA's maximum of 95 scholarships all
 last season.  No problem.   For whatever reason, the decision was
 made to rescind one particular player's scholarship.   The article
 did *not* explain the reason why the player lost his scholarhsip.
 
 Anyway, the agreement was made with the player that the school would
 continue to fund his scholarship through the fall semester ending in
 December 1990 *IF* he graduated in December 1990.    The player in
 question did *not* accumulate enough credits to graduate in December
 so the school billed him for a little over $2,000 in tuition, books
 and fees.  Didn't say whether or not the money had actually been
 collected; just that the player was billed for the expenses.
 
 In January 1991, the football program awarded this player's
 scholarship to another player.   The NCAA now claims that this puts
 Virginia at 96 scholarships and 1 over the limit of 95 scholarships.
 
 I have no idea what rule this violates or even if it is a violation
 at all.   Personally, it sounds like just an administrative snafu and
 not an attempt to cheat and improperly gain a competitive advantage.
 
 So there it is ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    Sounds like UVa is "over-recruiting".  You see this alot among the
    unscrupulous types like Valvano  (Clemson does this all the time too)
    where you've only got 15 scholarships to dish out.  Basically a kid
    signs, doesn't pan out, and you yank his scholarship a year or three
    down the road, when you've got the next HS superstar ready to sign.
    
    (Dean never does this, BTW.  In fact, last year was the first year
     EVER that he reached his scholarship limit, and he's on record as
     saying it's the last time he'll ever do it.  Too many players and
     not enough PT to go around, and Dean doesn't discard players like
     yesterdays newspaper like many others ...)
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Soup, I was very careful not to draw any premature conclusions about
 this Wahoo scholarship thing.   What I read gave no indication why
 the kid's scholarship was rescinded.  None at all.
 
 You don't exactly peg on the SPORTS Objectivity Meter when you jump
 to hasty conclusions like this.   You make an accusation of something
 you decide to call "over-recruiting" and then you set the belief that
 it's somehow unscrupulous and against the NCAA rules just because
 Snuff doesn't do whatever it is you're calling it.
 
 I admit that I don't know the NCAA rules on this.   If there is such
 a thing as "over-recruiting" and there are rules against it and if
 this is such a case, then Virginia deserves a penalty.   If not, then
 it doesn't.   Simple.   
 
 And until the truth behind the reason why the kid lost his
 scholarship comes out (if it ever does), I'm going to prefer to
 remain silent and refrain from guessing at what actually happened
 beyond a simple conclusion that it was an innocent red tape snafu.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.  And you're right, Snuff doesn't run his excess players off the
 team prematurely when he gets tired of them ... they run away from
 him first.

    > You don't exactly peg on the SPORTS Objectivity Meter when you jump
    > to hasty conclusions like this.   
    
    Strong words coming from someone whose subjective attacks on Dean
    are legendary.  ('Specially when addressed to someone whose *OBJECTIVE*
    rebuttals are equally famous!)
    
 
    > I admit that I don't know the NCAA rules on this.   If there is such
    > a thing as "over-recruiting" and there are rules against it and if
    > this is such a case, then Virginia deserves a penalty.   
    
    There most definitely are rules against this.  You've got a limited
    number of scholarships to work with.  Exceeding that limit is a giant
    no-no.  Most of your shaddy dealers out there
    (Sutton,Valvano,Tarkanian,Driesell) work around the problem with ease,
    simply pulling in the reigns on a scholarship.  (I believe mutual
    consent is needed for this to happen.  The move "One on One" did
    a good portrayal of this.  Robbie whats_his_name was asked to give back
    his scholarship, but refused.)
 
    > P.S.  And you're right, Snuff doesn't run his excess players off the
    > team prematurely when he gets tired of them ... they run away from
    > him first.
    
    Ooooo, low blow Ketch.  The number of kids who transfer away from a
    program *is* significant, IMO, and should be information made available
    to an incoming freshman.  Dean's track record is quite good.  The
    number of players that have transferred away from UNC is small.  This 
    may be the first time ever we've lost two in one season.  (One of 'em 
    doesn't really count, if rumors surrounding Kenny Harris' academic 
    failings are correct.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 � There most definitely are rules against this.  You've got a limited
 � number of scholarships to work with.  Exceeding that limit is a giant
 � no-no.  
 
 Agreed, 100% ...
 
 And, given from what I've read on the Virginia thing so far, there's
 no evidence to say that this happened.   Therefore, I'm not ready to
 conclude that anything "shady" is going on here.   If so, I'll blast
 them for it regardless of my undying love for my alma mater.   I'm on
 record as saying I'll always take an 0-11 but clean team over an 11-0
 filthy one.
 
 You, however, look like you're dusting off your famous "Looks like,
 sounds like, acts like ... must be" theory and have already decided
 what's happened and why.    I confess that I really don't know why
 you do this.   It's an interesting but hardly credible stance.
 
 Bob Hunt

    > I confess that I really don't know why you do this.
    
    When the facts are staying me right in the face and all it takes is a
    little 'Sports Commentary' to enlighten the masses, I'm more than happy
    to do so.  My track record is 100% so far, so maybe I'm getting a
    little trigger happy ...  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Bob, my friend, I think you cain breath easy cuz we're gonna give
    UVA a clean beal a health on this unfortunate snafu:
    
    1. UVA tries to do the right thing for scholar-athlete.
    2. Innocent mix-up ensues.
    3. End of story.
    
    In a game where kids with tore up knees are shown the gate I think
    UVA is to be commended for helping a young main like this.  Kudos!
    
    As for YOU, ACC Chris [sic], if what you say is true and you're 
    experimenting with objective noting nowadays I suggest that you direct
    your muckracking impulses to the local ACC grid squad, Tech, where in
    the course a one weekend half the squad got caught up in burglaries,
    brawls, and other assorted skulduggery.  Or maybe focus in on Chapel
    Hell (I know you've never been there but you cain find it on the map,
    it's just down the road from Duke or State, which are  much easier to 
    locate) and there you will find a grid program rife with armed robbery,
    shootings, crack haids and convicts.  Enjoy!
    
    MrT

    See what I tolt' ya, Bob, my friend?
    
    Blew right over.  All you needed was my imprimitaur.
    
    MrT

 You are The One, The True Master, The Be-All-And-The-End-All.
 
 All hail, T.
 
 Now if we could only get you home from Norfolk ... :-) :-)
 
 Bob Hunt

    No, thank YOU, dude.  You've done some wonderful work in here lately
    and I don't mind heaping much deserved praise, and assistance, on 
    you however I may.   With Michael, James, and Sam in the Finals it's
    no wonder ACCrisp would be unfairly persecuting you on a silly little
    technicality.
    
    Keep up the good, no, excellent!, work, dude.  You are one wonderful,
    productive, objective, sensible, likable, and *very* impressive sports
    analyst!
    
    MrT

       Please Please guys you're making me sic!!
    I think you guys should look into the mirror 
    and do a reality check,because I think you've
    had a few to many bumps on the head.
    
    
    
    
        BTW how many players does UVA and Indiana
    have in the NBA Finals?
    
      Oh I fogot wrong note!!!

    .48�        BTW how many players does UVA and Indiana
    .48�    have in the NBA Finals?
    .48�      Oh I fogot wrong note!!!
    
    	O.K. Class let's review...How many champeenships does deno have?
    Can you say one? Very good class..now, how many times has deno choked?
    Can you say too many for me too count?  Very good class..since you all
    passed the entrance exam to the university at Crypel hill...you will be
    accepted!
    
    	BTW, just one thing class, you must all live and die by the
    football program!  What a killer!
    
    B.A.

    Git 'em B.A. !! 
    
    That lat note you resembled Dale doin' his bump and run move to
    the checkered flag.
    
    MrT

    .50�    Git 'em B.A. !! 
    .50�    That lat note you resembled Dale doin' his bump and run move to
    .50�    the checkered flag.
    
    	Compliment NOT accepted!  Please so not ever resemble me to the low
    down dirty cheat of a driver such as him! :*)
    
    B.A.

    News....

    	Clemson football player Arthur Bussie Jr. was arrested for simple
    assault during a weekend accident. 

    	Former Clemson football player Gary Cooper was injured in a two car
    accident on Ga. Tuesday afternoon. Cooper is being charged with two
    counts of vehicular homicide, driving on the wrong side of the road,and
    driving under the influence. KILLED in the accident were Gladys
    Ralston(60) of Ga, and Valence Aker(19) of Ga.

    Just can't seem to get things right...

    
    B.A.,
    
    	How do you accidentally assault someone simply?  Deen to wonk!
    
    Claybone

    .53�    	How do you accidentally assault someone simply?  Deen to wonk!
    
    	Beats me...:*)
    
    	Another got it last night...arrested that is....Some player was
    using a calling card illegally!  Geez...
    
    B.A.
    

    	BAD NEWS...for us Pack fans.....

    	Seems Dick Sheridan got himself into a little trouble over the
    winter...Seems he getting a D.I.V.O.R.C.E. from his wife!  Seems he was
    C.A.U.G.H.T. with a pretty young girl from the campus...Seems the State
    administrators don't W.A.N.T. this kind of thing going on...Seems we
    may be looking for a N.E.W. football coach...Seems to me...we're in
    trouble!....

    B.A._looking_for_better_news!

Look on the bright side:

		At least the young girl wasn't his sister or his cousin!


8^)

 BA two options

  1. take 3 vacation days next week get 5 days off with pay...

  2. work three days next week get 5 days pay....

 personally I'm taking option 1...

 mike

    Once again, the ACC football teams play more non-Division 1A games than
    any other conference in the country.
    
    John

    
    > At least the young girl wasn't his sister or his cousin!
    
    How can you be so sure, 'Saw?  ;-)
    
    Seriously, I've just about heard it all in the world of college
    athletics.  We've also got Miami being investigated because some guy on
    the athletic staff was selling phony financial aid applications, bringing 
    in thousands in federal grants to the players involved, for $85 a pop to 
    feed his cocaine habit (even the ulterior motive has to be something 
    sinister these days).  For the life of him, Sam Jankovich can't fathom
    how something like this could go on inside the financial aid system
    right under his nose.  Right, Sam.  You may not have known what was 
    going on, but let's not kid ourselves about is or is not feasible in
    the domain of admissions/aid for athletes.  We've seen and heard it
    all...
    
    glenn
    
    

 �   Once again, the ACC football teams play more non-Division 1A games than
 �   any other conference in the country.
 
 Which illustrates, once again, that the ACC's football schedules were
 drawn up 5 to 10 years ago.
 
 If there is an active campaign within the ACC to toughen its schools'
 football schedules, we won't see the results of it for a few years
 yet to come.   Personally, I hope such an effort is underway.
 
 They'll all get a lot tougher nexted year when the Seminoles are
 dialed into the picture.
 
 Bob Hunt

    > Once again, the ACC football teams play more non-Divison 1A games
    > than any other conference in the country.
    
    How many conferences are we talking about here?  Does this include
    Florida State in the equation?  
    
    And even if it is true, consider:
    
    o What Ketch said
    o We make up for it in hoops
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 > Which illustrates, once again, that the ACC's football schedules were
 > drawn up 5 to 10 years ago.
 
 > If there is an active campaign within the ACC to toughen its schools'
 > football schedules, we won't see the results of it for a few years
 > yet to come.   Personally, I hope such an effort is underway.
    
    That's a big *if*.  What evidence exists to show that things are indeed
    changing?  I don't think the excuse holds water anymore anyway because
    the ACC was producing some strong teams as early as the late 70's and
    Clemson won a national championship in 1981.  Shouldn't they have
    already made the next big step up by now?
    
 > They'll all get a lot tougher nexted year when the Seminoles are
 > dialed into the picture.
    
    Which to the purists means only that Florida State will start playing
    a much easier schedule, a net zero to major college football fans.  The
    rest of the conference needs to pull itself up or they run the risk of
    being dominated by FSU year in and year out.
    
    glenn
    

>               <<< Note 155.61 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
>              -< ACC Football is on the rise, without question. >-
    
    For those of you who want this translated, it means that the ACC
    obviously must have recruited most of the top 200 players in the
    country recently because, by Chris' own admission, recruiting is
    everything.  Thus, the conference is on the rise and others are in
    decline.
    
    	--dan'l
    

    I'm aghast about the Miami news.  I thought they were all just pooor
    misguided youths picked on by the media...
    
    Re Sheridan.  Oh well - he can become one of MIami's assistant
    coaches..
    
    JD

    	Re-several...

    	I opted for the first one...


    	As for the ACC in Feetball...The SEC has ALWAYS been a powerhouse
    in feetball..the ACC in basketball...The South Rules!   Anyways...the
    ACC is getting it's program together...by getting a school like
    Fla.State into the conference...and with Clemson's past bowl success's
    the ACC WILL be a conference to contend with!  Add with Va..State and
    Ga.Tech...which all were in bowl games lasted(tm) year..this year will
    bring even more respect to the basketball conference!

    B.A.

    So 5-10 years ago Clemson thought that Furman and St. Soosie's Scool
    for Sisters of Ill Repute might be Div 1-A??  It's not like there is an
    awful lot of movement between 1-A and the lower divisions from season
    to season.  I can buy the excuse when scheduling within Div 1-A, but
    not outside of it.
    
    Anyone else notice that all the schools with problems seem to come from
    the South or somewhere nearby where they have one of those twangy
    accents?
    
    Bruce

>    Anyone else notice that all the schools with problems seem to come from
>    the South or somewhere nearby where they have one of those twangy
>    accents?
    
    You mean like Notre Dame, Pitt, Minessota, etc.?
    

>    Anyone else notice that all the schools with problems seem to come from
>    the South or somewhere nearby where they have one of those twangy
>    accents?
    
    Care to back this up with any facts, or are gross stereotypes
    good enough?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    >               -< Comments like this we can do without >-
    
    Oh, knock it off, Chris, your beloved North Carolina wasn't left out; 
    they're going through their own little educational scandal with the
    football program, right?
    
    It's a stereotype, but if someone ran the numbers based on probations
    or other criteria over the last ten years I'll bet the assertion holds 
    up...
    
    glenn
    

    I concur with Glenn - after all Chris you've never had any problem
    stereotyping 'liberals' and the like, now have you.
    
    JD

    Dan'l, Notre Dame IS in SOUTH Bend, right?  :*)
    
    lEe

    Here is the projected finish of the ACC football season by "Game Plan"
    preview...

    	 1.Clemson
    	 2.Ga.Tech
    	 3.N.Carolina
    	 4.N.C.S.U.
    	 5.Virginia
    	 6.Maryland
    	 7.Duke
    	 8.Wake Forest

    	Clemson is returning 51 lettermen and losing 22. Starters returning
    are 7 on the offense and 5 pn the defense.

    	Ga.Tech is returning 52 lettermen and losing 24. Starters returning
    are 7 on the offense and 9 on defense.

    	U.N.C is returning 45 lettermen and losing 10. Starters returning
    are 10 on offense and 10 on defense.

    	N.C.State is returning 62 lettermen and losing 21. Starters
    returning are 9 on offense and 6 on defense.

    	Virginia is returning 42 lettermen and losing 26. Starters returning
    are 4 on offense and 4 on defense

    	Maryland is returning 39 lettermen and losing 15. Starters
    returning are 6 offense and 8 defense.

    	Duke is returning 50 lettermen and losing 14. Starters returning
    are 7 offense and 11 defense.

    	Wake Forest is returning 48 lettermen and losing 17. Starters
    returning are 8 offense and 10 defense.

    B.A.

Here's the 1991 ACC Football Schedule

Clemson

Sept 7	Appalachian St
Sept 21	Temple
Sept 28 Ga.Tech
Oct 5  	at Georgia
Oct 12  Virginia
Oct 26 	N.C.State
Nov 2	Wake Forest
Nov 9 	at N.Carolina
Nov 16  Maryland
Nov 23 	at S.Carolina
Nov 30  Duke

Duke

Sept 7	at S.Carolina
Sept 14	Rutgers
Sept 21 Colgate
Sept 28 at Virginia
Oct  5	Vanderbilt
Oct 26  at Maryland
Nov 2   Ga.tech
Nov 9   at Wake Forest
Nov 16	N.Carolina St.
Nov 23  at N.Carolina
Nov 30  Clemson

Georgia Tech

Aug 28	Penn St.
Sept 14	at Boston College
Sept 19	Virginia
Sept 28	at Clemson
Oct 5	at N.C.State
Oct 12  Maryland
Oct 19	at S.Carolina
Oct 26  N.Carolina
Nov 2	at Duke
Nov 9   Furman
Nov 16  Wake Forest
Nov 30  Georgia 

Maryland

Sept 7	Virginia
Sept 14	Syracuse
Sept 21 W.Virginia
Oct 5	at Pittsburgh
Oct 12	at Ga.Tech
Oct 19 	At Wake Forest
Oct 26	Duke
Nov 2	at N.Carolina
Nov 9	Penn St.
Nov 16	at Clemson
Nov 23	at N.C.State

North Carolina

Sept 14	Cincinnati
Sept 21	at Army
Sept 28	at N.C.State
Oct 5	William and Mary
Oct 12  Wake Forest
Oct 19  at Virginia
Oct 26  at Ga.Tech
Nov 2   Maryland
Nov 9   Clemson
Nov 16  S.Carolina
Nov 23  Duke

N.C.State

Sept 7	Virginia Tech
Sept 14	Kent St.
Sept 21 at Wake Forest
Sept 28 N.Carolina
Oct 5   Ga.Tech
Oct 19  Marshall
Oct 26  at Clemson
Nov 2   at S.Carolina
Nov 9   Virginia
Nov 16  at Duke
Nov 23  Maryland

Virginia

Sept 7	at Maryland
Sept 14	Navy
Sept 19 at Ga.Tech
Sept 28 Duke
Oct 5   Kansas
Oct 12  at Clemson
Oct 19  N.Carolina
Oct 26  Wake Forest
Nov 2   VMI
Nov 9   at N.C.State
Nov 23  Virginia Tech

Wake Forest

Sept 14 Western Carolina
Sept 21 at N.C.State
Sept 28 at Northwestern
Oct 5   App.St.
Oct 12  at N.Carolina
Oct 19  Maryland
Oct 26  at Virginia
Nov 2   at Clemson
Nov 9   Duke
Nov 16  at Ga.Tech
Nov 23  at Navy

B.A.

Thanks, B.A.

TTom

    Good effort thare, B.A.  Looks like Carolina should start out 4-0,
    assuming we can beat NC Skate in week 3.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re-1,
    
    	Reverse it Chris and you will have the correct start! :*)
    
    	Looking forward to a great year of the pack!
    
    B.A.
                                     

    What's on tap for this weekend...
    
     Clemson at home against Tulane
     Duke at home against Colgate
     Ga.Tech at home against Virginia  (Thursday)
     Maryland at home against West Virginia
     U.N.C away at Army
     N.C.State away at Wake Forest
     
    
    B.A.

Hell, B.A, I forgot this topic existed. I've been Notin' in 17 for what
seems like years.

I'll take a stab:

>     Clemson at home against Tulane
	It's Tempole but still it should be Clemson in a major blowout.

>     Duke at home against Colgate
	Colgate ain't no Rutgers so this should be a no contest. Duke.

>     Ga.Tech at home against Virginia  (Thursday)
	The Hapless Hoos get institutionally beaten. Ga Tech by 14.

>     Maryland at home against West Virginia
	Maryland will be glad it's not Syracuse and will reek revenge on
	the weak Mountaneers (how bad is So Carolina?)

>     U.N.C away at Army
	No real test. No Carolina much quicker. Another by 14, at least.

>     N.C.State away at Wake Forest
	Wake always plays State close. Close game, State by a FG.

TTom

    .78�>     Clemson at home against Tulane
    
    	Oopps!  Temple..those powerhouse's really lose me..Clemson by 20
    
    .78�>     Duke at home against Colgate
    	
    	Duke by 14
    
    .78�>     Ga.Tech at home against Virginia  (Thursday)
    
    	Tech by 21
    
    .78�>     Maryland at home against West Virginia
    
    	Terps by 7
    
    .78�>     U.N.C away at Army
    
    	Tar Baby's by 14
    
    .78�>     N.C.State away at Wake Forest
    	
    Pack by 10
    
    B.A.
    

This year's Ga Tech-Virginia game will be a step down in significance
from last's year's game when the Hoos were ranked No. 1 and and Ga Tech
No. 16.

There's also a couple of key injuries. All-American ken Swilling will not
be playing for the Jackets. Matt Blundin, UVa's starting quarterback will
also miss the game. Bobby Goodman will continue. He finished the Navy
game.

But Shawn Jones will definitely be there for Tech and that'll be more
than Virginia can handle. 

TTom

 I assume your condolences are for the just concluded Ga Tech 24-21
 victory over Virginia.
 
 What a pisser.  Now I'm really torqued at George Welsh.  
 
 I've been sitting here so far this season trying to get used to the
 painful fact that the Hoos truly shot their bolt lasted year and that
 they're going to have to ... sigh ... rebuild.   
 
 And, yes, it didn't feel good seeing a double digit spread on this
 game.   I didn't think Tech was that much better than the Hoos but
 they are the defending co-mythicals so I guess I just had to suck on
 it.
 
 So, Tech scores on a 70+ yard bomb on their first play and I'm
 thinking ... Aw, crap, here comes the blowout.  Hmmm, wonder what's
 on HBO ???
 
 But, no, they climb back in it and play a really tough game.  Second
 string QB Bobby Goodman throws three TD passes, his last one with an
 injured shoulder.   And this last one caps off a 95-yard drive with
 the clock draining.    Now I'm getting pumped.   Score is now 21-20
 and I'm thinking ... "C'mon Hoos, stick it to 'em.  They tormented us
 lasted year and now it's our turn ...  go for 2 and beat 'em on their
 own damn field right here on ESPN."
 
 So what do we see ???   We see George Welsh holding up 1 finger and
 the kicking team on the field.   I can't believe it !!!   He's going
 for the tie *again* !!!  He did the same thing lasted year and then
 walked off the field a 3 point loser with 2 TO's still in his pocket.
 
 Kick is up, it's good and we're tied at 21-21.   I'm speechless.  
 No, this can't be happening again.  Not twice in a row with the same
 ending.   Say it isn't so, Joe.   Sure enough.   Kick off to Tech and
 they've got about a minute and a half to go maybe 50 or 60 yards and
 set up a FG.
 
 And Welsh has three TO's in his pocket and doesn't call a single one
 of them until Tech has marched all the way to the 15 and has sent
 Kevin Sisson (yes, the *same* kicker as lasted year) on to the field
 for a chip shot 32 yarder with 3 seconds left.     Snap, thump, up,
 good, whistle.   24-21 Tech and the Hoos *AGAIN* walk off the field a
 3-point loser with 2 timeouts left.
 
 What a waste of a truly gutsy effort.   Strange field, raw
 quarterback, heavy underdog and to fight for it all that time and
 then to have a chickensheet coach make the exact same gutless
 decision that cost him a national title is just a little too much to
 forgive.
 
 I've had it.   Totally inexcusable.  I hope his britches are toasty
 warm after this one.  I'd love to be a reporter in C'ville writing
 tonight's story.  I'd ream Welsh but good.   Terrible, terrible
 coaching.   Dean's kinda guy.
 
 Bob Hunt

>                             -< Horrible coaching >-

Bob, if you hadn't said it, someone else woulda. This is college. You're
supposed to go for it. It ain't like the Hoos had made a valiant comeback
from way behind and tie would feel good. Or another way to look at it is
without the 4 TOs by Ga Tech, they wouldn't have even been in it. So you
gotta go for the win. And then the soft defense. Welsh didn't give his
team a chance to win at the end.

But hey, things are looking a little better for UVa. Goodman looked good
on a couple of good runs and tossed a couple of TDs. Bob, who's that 82
that looks like Herman Moore. Tall! Fast! (of was the Techster just short
and slow).

TTom

>But hey, things are looking a little better for UVa. Goodman looked good
>on a couple of good runs and tossed a couple of TDs. Bob, who's that 82
>that looks like Herman Moore. Tall! Fast! (of was the Techster just short
>and slow).

You mean Larry Holmes?  (I watched some of the game)  This guy made
a real pretty TD.  

Took a short pass, made a cut, and then cut in the afterburner!  Whew!

'Saw

Larry Holmes? The Boxer. Unbelievable comeback.

TTom

       You beat me to it Tom. It's a good thing Larry still had his
    eligibility left eh?
                                Denny

That was the guy's name.  Funny thing, he actually LOOKS a little bit like
the Boxer....

    re: 17.2005 (BobHunt tear-jerker)
    
    Boo hoo!!!  Sniff, sniff, sniff!  Waaaa!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    BobHunt turns on George Welsh!  Cain't believe it after all that praise
    that came down last year for turning the program around!
    
    I agree, though; Welsh might be a good coach but Bobby Ross has got
    his number.  Ross is a coaches' coach, a main's main.  I didn't (and
    still don't) believe that Georgia Tech had the credentials to deserve 
    the co-mythical last season, but it certainly didn't have anything to 
    do with the man pacing the sidelines...
    
    glenn
    

  �  BobHunt turns on George Welsh!  Cain't believe it after all that praise
  �  that came down last year for turning the program around!
 
 But he *did* turn the program around.   Before Welsh arrived, the
 program had *never* been to a bowl game and now they've been to four
 of them, the last two in the primetime glow of New Year's Day.   He's
 also grabbed the only ACC title (1989) the program's ever won.    
 
 He coached several high-round NFL draft picks (Dombrowksi, Lageman,
 Word, Moore) and a few NFL quarterbacks (Majkowksi, Secules, Moore)
 as well.
 
 The program is in fine shape.   I couldn't be happier with the
 program but that's a vastly different issue than game-day coaching. 
 Lasted night's gutless decision to go for the tie is completely
 defenseless as far as I'm concerned.    You have to go for the win in
 college football.   Auburn fans are *still* ticked off at Pat Dye for
 his more notorious ties.   Should be the same thing here.
 
  �  I agree, though; Welsh might be a good coach but Bobby Ross has got
  �  his number.  Ross is a coaches' coach, a main's main.
 
 Ross has outcoached Welsh in these last two meetings, no doubt about
 it.  But, prior to that, Welsh owned him.   Before lasted night's
 loss, the Hoos had won the previous three games played in Atlanta
 over a six-year span.   And they won most of the games in C'ville,
 too.   Ross has done wonders at Tech but he's only recently caught up
 and passed Welsh.
 
 Oh, and stick it, Soup.   If you would actually bother to read the
 stuff I write, you might notice that I was actually criticizing the
 coach of my favorite team for a horrendous coaching decision that
 cost them a big game.   No doubt that comes as a big shock to you.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.  Oh, and by the way, your conspicuous silence these past few
 days on the Snuff drought during the entire Wooden Era, including the
 1970's, hasn't gone unnoticed.   Looks like you're "Welsh-ing" again.  
 
 Ahh, that's okay, let it rest.   It'll just make the laughs a little
 tastier nexted time you try to hoist your banner up the objectivity
 flagpole.

    re .2005
    
    When I see tirades like that I wince at the mental image a a bunch a
    big cigar-chomping alumni in a smokey oak-paneled boarunhappy in
    tir unrequited thirst for school glory, giddy when things are going
    well and shark-like when the kids, the innocent 19 year old kids, don't
    feed the craven appetite that burns in these Pounce da Lions.
    
    I axe you, Mr. Unhappy Oran Alumnus, to look back on what you yourself
    did NOT do last year.  The Cavs had followed the TV producer low road
    to a totally ill-deserved #1 ranking, beating only other teams that
    were themselves playing only tems with cupcake-gorging ""schedule."
    
    But Welsh didn't step forward and say, "we haven't played a tested team
    and we don't plan to, we should be rated somewhere between 10th and
    20 cuz to rank us #1 is a slap in the face to the dignity of the game
    of college grid."
    
    But he didn't.  And neither did you.  Nor did the phonies making up
    the allegedly co-mythical Titleist Yellowjackets, who taught the nation
    to take the "mythical" in that term quite literally, ripping off tried
    and tested true Titleist, thereby cheapening the college grid experience
    for us all.
    
    No, you sat there silent basking in the glow of artificial light so 
    fake that you are now burned to bruised lurid shade a orange.  Why
    didn't you?  And why do you turn so suddenly now?  Angry that Virginia
    even dared to schedule the hugely overrated Tech, robbing you of a
    chance to soak in more phoney glory?
    
    Well, I'll tellya whatIU* woulda done, also coming from a dregs grid
    program that has earned some measurrespectability of late: Bill
    Mallory woulda said those words, "we're untested, overrated, bestow the
    #1 mantle on some deserving squad," and Big10 Tom woulda stepped
    forward in this file and admitted what waright and true.
    
    But you didn't.  And now you behave like a greedalum a a football
    factory who strives to recapture some a his youth.
    
    Big10 Tom
    

 Yeah, right.   I'm torqued because Welsh went for the tie and nexted
 thing you know I'm a_puffin' cee-gars wif Muffy and Biff down at the
 lodge.   Nice leap there, T.   Funny.
 
 I'm not going to get dragged into a pissing contest over what someone
 else thinks I ought to think and do.   Been down that road too often
 to know that it leads nowhere.   A few things do need a comeback,
 however ...
 
 � Angry that Virginia even dared to schedule the hugely overrated Tech,
 � robbing you of a chance to soak in more phoney glory?
 
 Hard to be angry with ACC member Virginia for automatically
 scheduling fellow ACC member Georgia Tech, T.   That's why they call
 it a *conference*, you see.   I know how frustrating it must be to
 have these little details keep spoiling your rhetoric.
    
�    Well, I'll tellya whatIU* woulda done, also coming from a dregs grid
�    program that has earned some measurrespectability of late: Bill
�    Mallory woulda said those words, ...
 
 First, let's see Mallory make it to the top and then we'll see what
 he would have said.   Might be a long wait, though.  Perhaps we ought
 to take your word for it just in case it don't happen.
 
 � ... and Big10 Tom woulda stepped forward in this file and admitted
 � what waright and true.
 
 Rollward.  That's even funnier that Soup's insistence that factual
 intellectual honesty is his game, amigos.   You two are priceless.
    
 � And now you behave like a greedalum a a football factory who strives
 � to recapture some a his youth.
 
 My youth is toast.   Three kids and a mortgage are the proof.  And,
 besides ... if I *really* wanted to recapture my football youth at
 Virginia, I'd have to go back to getting clobbered by Wake Forest.  
 No thanks.
 
 George Welsh should have gone for two points and given the team a
 chance to win the game.   That's my beef.   Anything else you wanna
 read into that, do so for your own amusement.   I'm sure you won't
 disappoint us.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Little details don't spoil my right-on rhetoric, but they do yours.
    
    The "little detail" that you deflect in such a_oily wa  is that your
    phoney-glory-hungry 'Leers decline to schedule a single credible
    nonconference opponent.  This tells the whole story, along with your
    self-serving and dishonest silence on the matter, independent of the
    low overall quality a Almost Close Conference grid.
    
    Big10 Tom

 �   Little details don't spoil my right-on rhetoric
 
 Norfolk.
    
 � The "little detail" that you deflect in such a_oily wa  is that your
 � phoney-glory-hungry 'Leers decline to schedule a single credible
 � nonconference opponent.  
 
 Which, of course, if true is entirely relevant (not) to lasted
 night's bad decision to kick the tying extra point rather than go for
 the go-ahead two-pointer.    Tell me, do you buckle your seat belt
 before you fling yourself off these intellectual cliffs of yours ???
 
 � This tells the whole story, along with your self-serving and
 � dishonest silence on the matter, independent of the low overall
 � quality a Almost Close Conference grid.
 
 Shocking, isn't it ???   Refusing to cave in to a known prankster who
 openly admits that keeping the ratholes alive and flourishing is his
 one true goal might just be one of the smarter things I've done
 recently.   Have fun with it, T.
 
 Bob Hunt

    The 'Liers unwillingness to schedule a tough nonconference opponent
    is relevant to what I was addressing, which was how fantastically
    overrated they were and how willing YOU were to bask in that repugnant
    artificial glow - a poor decision on your part that has besmirched
    your otherwise fine record as a_Objective Analyst.
    
    It doesn't matter whether it's relevant to you moany-woany tirade on 
    Welsh's alleged poor game coaching, except that maybe they'd be tougher 
    in the clutch if they played anybody.  But if they played a schedule then 
    they wouldn't ever have been top10 or, even more unbelievably, #1, now 
    would they? 
    
    MrT

 � ... and how willing YOU were to bask in that repugnant artificial
 � glow - a poor decision on your part that has besmirched your
 � otherwise fine record as a_Objective Analyst.
 
 Which, of course, if true pales next to the wild-eyed and ravenous
 glowing you did when you "discovered" ice hockey this spring as the
 illegitimate North Stars marched a bogus path to the Cup Finals.   
 Someday maybe you'll score a point on somebody in here without being
 hoisted in return on your own petard.   Doubtful but stranger things
 have happened.
    
 � It doesn't matter whether it's relevant to you moany-woany tirade on 
 � Welsh's alleged poor game coaching, except that maybe they'd be
 � tougher in the clutch if they played anybody.  
 
 The players couldn't get much tougher in the clutch than lasted
 night.  The Wahoos went 95 yards to score ... behind an injured
 rookie sub quarterback ... with time running out ... on the road
 against the first-time-back-at-home defending co-mythicals ... in a
 revenge game with significant conference impact ... on national tube.
 
 You're right.  They shoulda been tougher in the clutch.   You have
 such an amazing gift for analysis.
 
 Fact is the toughness was in ample supply on the football field
 itself.    Inexcusably, that's where the guts ended.    By the way,
 nexted time Indiana sucks it up like that on the playing field will
 be their first time in some serious ages.   But don't let that stop
 you from strutting your "woulda" chest.
 
 � But if they played a schedule then  they wouldn't ever have been
 � top10 or, even more unbelievably, #1, now  would they? 

 If "if's" and "buts" were beer and nuts, you'd have a helluva party.  
 Party on, dude ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    >next time Indiana sucks it up like that on the playing field will be
    >their first time some serious ages.  But don't let that stop you from
    >strutting you "woulda" chest.
    
    You hurt me by mixing me up with ACCrock, *he* is the one who "struts
    his chest," me, I PUFF my chest.
    
    As for the Hoosiers, ain't no "woulda" cuz they already sucked it up
    and marched the field in the final minutes against a_Auburn team that
    spent half of last season ranked #2, and legitimately so.  Btw, their
    coach, Bill, went for the TD.  Two games ago ain't a "seroius age" is
    it?  Also, IU got into that bowl game with teams like Michigan on their
    schedule, and Michigan in turn got their ranking playing the likes a
    Notre Dame...
    
    Big10 Tom

 � Btw, their coach, Bill, went for the TD.
 
 Well, isn't that special ???   A college football coach who puts it
 all on the line and goes for the win.   Makes me jealous wishing *my*
 team had one, too.
 
    *** WHICH WAS MY ORIGINAL POINT IN THE FIRSTED PLACE !!! ***
 
 Thanks for finally coming around to the central issue at hand, T.  
 It does help when you cut away all the crap and concentrate on the
 main themes.
 
 Bob Hunt

    I admit that I that I sought to divert from your point to the 
    glory-hungry cupcake-munching worst-ever #1 grid ranking and
    your silent assent to that fraud.
    
    All I wanted was for you to, just this once, admit the error
    of your ways.  I, for instance, cain freely admit that I commited
    sacriliege in her when I operated my fraudulent "MrT B Gone" note
    wherein I lied and snookered everybody into the assumption that 
    I was leaving the Company.
    
    I feel terrible about that now.  Oh sure, it wasn't as bad as a
    fake contest or anything, and once again amounted to but another
    innocent college prank, but I am main enough to admit the error
    a my ways.
    
    Why cain't you?  
    
    Big10 Tom

    .96�    it?  Also, IU got into that bowl game with teams like Michigan on their
    .96�    schedule, and Michigan in turn got their ranking playing the likes a
    .96�    Notre Dame...
    
    But T, Who is Notre Dame?  NBC really got screwed when they sign the
    pact with the Damsels in distress. Losing team with a losing rating.
    
    B.A._get_a_real_conference_T_

 � All I wanted was for you to, just this once, admit the error of
 � your ways.  
 �    
 �   Why cain't you?  

 Okay, I will.   Just for you, T.  This is the story of the "error" of
 my ways ...

 I enrolled at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville,
 Virginia, in August of 1976 and attended the first football game of
 the 1976 season a few weeks later.  I have no idea who it was
 against.   It was a loss, however.   A big one.  And there were
 several more where that one came from.

 And many more to follow over the next four years.   Traveled to
 Annapolis, Blacksburg, College Park, the Meadowlands, Williamsburg,
 Harrisonburg, all kinds of places ... same thing ... more losses.
 
 Throughout the 1980's, they steadily got better going to their first
 bowl games and challenging each year for the ACC title.   But they
 still lost to Clemson every year and to Maryland most every year.
 
 Then came lasted year ... The first ever win over Clemson, 7 straight
 wins and a No. 1 ranking ... before there collapse.
 
 And, so, while standing on that peak after *FIFTEEN* years of living
 and dying with them, through umpteen flasks of Jim Beam, through
 countless fumbles, interceptions, blown field goals, blocked punts,
 and other assorted disasters, after all that ... I'm supposed to
 somehow apologize and admit that the then-No.1 Wahoos didn't belong
 there.    
 
 Yeah, right.     I did all the things that a loyal fan is supposed to
 do for year after year and then I'm supposed to just blow it off and
 admit they didn't deserve it ... because somebody else insists that
 their traditional schedule wasn't tough enough to merit the ranking.
 
 Fine, I admit it.   
 
 My "error" was in sticking with them for so long.  I should have just
 popped my parachute after that first loss back in 1976 and then just
 rooted for Notre Dame or Penn State or Miami or some other factory.   
 Hell, I should have bandwagon-hopped every year.  I should have been
 a Bulldog fan while Herschel was there or a Trojan backer while
 Marcus Allen was there.   Or maybe a Husker fan when Rozier and Fryar
 were there.   No apologies there, right ???
 
 I will certainly know better nexted time.  No more long-term, through
 thick and thin, till death do us part alma mater loyalties for me.  
 Why invest years of effort and emotion into a favorite team when you
 just have to fall on your sword when they make it to the top ???
 Uh-uh, Jack, no mo' "errors" for this fan.
 
 Hey, who's No. 1 this week ???  Go Seminoles !!!   Whatta team !!!  
 And if they lose this week, then Go Wolverines !!!  Whatta team !!!
 
 Bob Hunt

    Bob, as coiner of the "Wardleshooter", I'm afraid I'll have to refuse
    to allow you to use it.  Whiplash and all that stuff, you see.
    
    Anyhow, stick with your team.  It doesn't matter what others think of
    their schedule, they were anointed as No 1 and that can't be taken away
    from them.  Don't let anyone stick an imaginary asterisk next to them
    in your memory bank.
    
    Lee

    Sorry Ketch, but MorT's gotcha on this one.  While UVa may not have
    overtly plotted a weak schedule to earn a #1 ranking, you shoulda
    bellied up in the Intellectual Honesty department and admitted they
    didn't deserve the "1" rank.  Unfortunately with college football being
    in such sad_sack shape as it is (mythical champeens, no Tourney) this 
    kind_a honesty is absolutely essential, and you flunked in that
    regard.  
    
    Huge one coming up this weekend in Raleigh folks, where State plays
    host to Carolina.  Neither team has lost, although neither team has
    played anybody.  This is the kind of game Mack Brown needs to win if he
    wants to lay claim to a bowl game this year, but I'm not overly
    optimistic.  We're missing our AA l_backer, Dwight Hollier, and the
    defense has given up quite a bit of yardage to some pretty miserable
    opponents.  On a postive note, Natrone Means is back and had close to
    100 yards rushing against Army.  Also QB Chuckie Burnette is finally
    starting to show some ability and move the team both on the ground and
    thru the air, albeit against weak opposition.
    
    Go Heels!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    re .100
    
    I reach out in my appeal to you and you spit vile bile in my face
    and slap me upside de haid.  I spent the weekend hoping fervidly 
    that my refreshing burst a honesty would incite the same in you,
    and now this.  Sigh.
    
    Big10 Tom

 � While UVa may not have overtly plotted a weak schedule to earn a #1
 � ranking, you shoulda bellied up in the Intellectual Honesty
 � department and admitted they didn't deserve the "1" rank. 
 
 So if it wasn't an "overt plot" to schedule weak teams, then what do
 I have to admit to ???     A "covert plot" ???   Pretty hard to call
 the same schedule, year in and year out, a covert plot, ain't it ???  
 
 Every single season for longer than I can remember, Virginia has
 scheduled its seven ACC conference brethern plus Virginia Tech plus
 one other 1-A or 1-AA in-state school and two more out-of-state 1-A
 schools. 
 
 Lasted year, it was William and Mary in-state, and Navy and Kansas
 out-of-state.    Could those games have been tougher ???   Yes, they
 could have been tougher and I said so on numerous occasions lasted
 fall.  Go look it up.   What more can I admit to ???   It wasn't
 covert and the non-conference games could have been tougher.   End of
 this angle.
 
 An "accidental plot", maybe ???  
 
 As in maybe the schedule was made up years in advance and maybe the
 team had had a rare burst of recruiting successes and maybe, for once
 in its entire 100-plus year football history, just maybe had managed
 to out-talent its opposition ???   I said this many times lasted
 year, too.   What more can I admit to ???   The talent level peaked
 against a schedule made up years in advance.   Coincidence ???  
 Accident ???   Good fortune ???   Could be ...   
 
 So then why should I have to slit my wrists over good fortune ???     
 
 I didn't see the Tar Heel faithful hold back the glee as you and
 Snuff romped through Northeastern, Villanova, Eastern Michigan, and
 Temple so why should I belly up to your "honesty" bar now ???
 
 And speaking of the Heels, when are you going to denounce the Tar
 Heels' Top 25 ranking after their "hard-fought" and "glorious" wins
 over Cincinnati and Army ???   C'mon, Soup, factual intellectual
 honesty is your game, amigo.    We *DEMAND* that you step forward and
 admit that the Tar Heels don't belong in the rarefied Top 25 air
 reserved only for the truly tough who play only the truly tough.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.   Read it and weep, T.   Go <current No. 1 ranked team> !!!

    You miss the point Ketch.  I'm personally not blaming Virginia for
    their woeful schedule.  Given their long_and_storied history of
    ineptitude on the gridiron, it only makes sense.
    
    What I *am* concerned about is your failure to step forward and
    bravenly announce that Virginia didn't deserve the number 1 ranking, at
    least until they'd beaten, say, Clemson and Georgia Tech.  
    
    With that in mind, here goes:
    
    NORTH CAROLINA DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE RANKED IN THE TOP 25.  *IF* WE
    BEAT NC STATE SATURDAY THEN I'D SAY WE DESERVE, MAYBE, A TOP 25 RANK.
    
    If only you'd been so honest last year, we coulda saved 1Way alot of
    disk space ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    BTW Bob, your UNC hoops analogy is horrible.  First, we *earned* our
    Top 4 end-of-season ranking by playing one of the most rigorous
    schedules in the USA, culminated by an ACC Championship.  The East
    region was loaded with top teams who, unfortunately [:^)], couldn't 
    meet the challenges of the often-tough early rounds.  Obviously this
    was no fault of Dean or UNC.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 �   What I *am* concerned about is your failure to step forward and
 �   bravenly announce that Virginia didn't deserve the number 1 ranking, at
 �   least until they'd beaten, say, Clemson and Georgia Tech.  
 
 Old news.  Or haven't you heard ???  I don't care about the Cavaliers
 anymore.  I'm rooting for <insert No. 1 here> now.   Much easier this
 way.  No more long-term loyalties.  No more nightmare seasons.   No
 more Earl Campbell 4 TD's in the first quarter.  No more heroic
 struggles to the top.   No more first-ever Clemson wins.   Bah.
 
 Now I'm a Seminoles man until they lose and then I'll root for the
 Wolverines or maybe the Hurricanes or maybe the Vols or the Huskies.   
 Who knows who could be next ???   Isn't this exciting ???   I have 15
 years of front-running catch-up to do.   No more apologies, no more
 worries, nada.   Whatta freakin' relief off my sorry shoulders.
 
 �   NORTH CAROLINA DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE RANKED IN THE TOP 25.  *IF* WE
 �   BEAT NC STATE SATURDAY THEN I'D SAY WE DESERVE, MAYBE, A TOP 25 RANK.
 
 Well, that sure took cast-iron cojones, didn't it ???   Ooooh, Mr
 Honesty boldly says the Heels ain't Top 25 but they will be if they
 beat State.   Bravissimo.
 
 Now, let's preserve that brave thought as the Heels march their way
 upwards and *IF* they reach king-a-the-hill, top-o-the-heap, A Number
 One, these little town blues ... then you too can pony up to the
 Honesty Hitchin' Rack and admit they don't deserve it ... all because
 they stomped on the hapless Bearcats and Cadets way back in
 September.
 
 Bob Hunt

 � Obviously this was no fault of Dean or UNC.
 
 Never is.   Take it to the ACC Basketball note.   Note 17 on your
 SPORTS dial.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Boy, folks sure are reaching in here.
    
    AccChris and MrT on the same side?  
    
    Chris *demanding* that Bob Hunt should have *denounced* the Cavs #1
    ranking last year in football.
    
    From my recollection, Bob Hunt *NEVER* went around 'strutting his
    chest' when the Cavs were ranked #1.  In fact, I remember a note that
    basically said "I'm enjoying it while I can" - cuz Bob kind of expected
    the Cinderella ride to end.  And it did end.  In a big way.  Bob simply
    sighed and thanked the Cavs for *finally* giving Hoo's fans something
    to cheer about in the fall.
    
    Big deal.  
    
    And Bob - you should know by now that *ALL* analogies are *horrible*
    according to Soup.  He uses the same line each and every time.
    
    jd

    Didn't say he shouldn't enjoy_it JD.  Only said he shoulda said they
    didn't deserve it until they actually went out and beat somebody good.
    
    As regards Carolina football, they're in an appropriate position so
    that *if* they should reach #1 they surely would've had to beat some
    Big Boys along the way.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Listen Bob, I hate to be the instigator of even *more* bad blood
    between us, ['specially when it requires me to saddle-up with MrT ;^(]
    so what_say you make public something you may already have.  Namely,
    that while you fully enjoyed Virginia's Number 1 ranking last year,
    they were, in fact, wholly undeserving of the honor, given their very
    poor strength-of-schedule.
    
    Anxiously awaiting,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 *ALL* of the relevant facts concerning the 1990 Virginia Cavaliers
 football season are written in the record books and are now a matter
 for the historians.    So are my SPORTS comments on their season.  I
 enjoyed the Wahoos incredible and improbable rise to the top and I
 plunged right along beside them in their inevitable death spiral.
 
 *FACT* is they were ranked No. 1 by the nation's coaches and writers
 for three whole weeks in October.   *FACT* is I enjoyed all three
 weeks.   If you or anyone else wants to offer an _OPINION_ that those
 three weeks weren't deserved, fine ... then take it up with the
 experts who ranked them.   I'm under no such obligation and have no
 intention of letting that sour sentiment spoil the fond memories.
 
 Get your sorry carcass back over to Note 17 and answer MrT's "Big
 Four" questions and then discuss Snuff's title drought during the
 entire Wooden Era like you said you would.    And then maybe you can
 ask someone for their comments on an issue.
 
 Bob Hunt

> *FACT* is they were ranked No. 1 by the nation's coaches and writers
> for three whole weeks in October.   *FACT* is I enjoyed all three
> weeks.   

No one's denying these facts.  But just as the world is condemning those
political leaders who remained silent during the Soviet coup (as opposed
to supporting the resistence), *we're* condeming you on *your*
silence while in the midst of this obvious injustice, 'specially considering
that you were the one honking the loudest about your serious reservations
about the Hoos ability to continue undefeated.  We're left scratching
our heads about how you could be so concerned with even the weakest
of Virginia opponents, whilst failing to come out and admit that the #1
ranking was wholly undeserved. 

 
> Get your sorry carcass back over to Note 17 and answer MrT's "Big
> Four" questions and then discuss Snuff's title drought during the
> entire Wooden Era like you said you would.    

Nice deflection attempt Ketch, but no_can_comply.  See, MrT has yet
to publish the Final 4 yet, despite *weeks* of bogus promises.


- ACC Chris
    

The way college football is currently constructed, if anyone has a
problem with any team being #1, they should take it up with the voters in
the poll. The AP is a bunch of writers. The UPI is a bunch of coaches.

This is approximately how we elect a president. Like the presidential
election, the 2 (or maybe more) contestants don't duke it out on the
field but determine "winner" and "loser" on the basis of the vote, which
is often uninformed.

That's where the playoff comes in. Currently, the major hurdle to a real
play-for-the-championship is the Rose Bowl which can take 1 or 2 of the
major players out of the loop. This year's Rose Bowl could be a kind of
de facto champeenship if Washington and Michigan continue their winning
ways. But then, what if Florida State of Miami go undefeated? I guess
it's back to the vote.

TTom

 � ... *we're* condeming you on *your* silence ...
 
 I was anything but *SILENT* during the Hoos march to the top lasted
 season.   i just didn't say what someone else thought I should say.  
 I expressed myself freely and openly and I didn't cave in to the
 Thought Police.  Just like Boris Yeltsin.
 
 � We're left scratching our heads about how you could be so concerned
 � with even the weakest of Virginia opponents, whilst failing to come
 � out and admit that the #1 ranking was wholly undeserved. 
 
 Well, then you must have some serious problems with the obvious,
 Soup.   Geez, I suffer through fifteen years of personal football
 torture preceded by decades of the program's historical aches and
 pains and you're still scratching your head trying to figure out why
 Virginia fans expected the worst ???    Grip, Chris.  Get one.
 
� Nice deflection attempt Ketch, but no_can_comply.  See, MrT has yet
� to publish the Final 4 yet, despite *weeks* of bogus promises.
 
 Well, your promise to address Snuff's Wooden Era drought is less than
 a week old.   You gonna let this one age, too ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    First of all - the 'we' who are scratching our haids - is that you and
    MrT, Chris?
    
    And, I asked a question over in 17 that you haven't answered.  
    
    "Do you think Dean Smith should have lead UNC to more than one Hoops
    NCAA champeenship in the last 31 years?"
    
    Such a simple question.  I've asked it 3 times now in the last 2 years.
    You've never answered it.
    
    JD

    re: .115
    
    I've got a firm grip Ketch, believe me, and I thought long and hard
    before prosecuting my argument against you.  *Only* because you were
    being sneaky again was I forced to participate in this debate.
    
    Now, if you'd simply admit that UVa did not deserve it's number 1 rank
    last year we can be done with this whole thing.  (BTW, please spare us
    what the "experts" thought.  We wanna know what *you* thought and,
    assuming you didn't think they deserved it, (which is purty obvious)
    why ya didn't say so.
    
    
    re: .116
    
    Yo, JD, quit cluttering up the ACC *Football* note with baskeetball
    junk.  BobHunt already called me on the carpet for doing this today,
    and I humbly apologize and hope you'll do the same.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

No Carolina puts their #26 NATIONAL RATING on the line at Carter-Finley
Saturday.

Chris, I suggest you post a bunch of disclaimers now and avoid the
grilling like that which you are *ATTEMPTING* to put on Bob Hunt, who
actually attended UVa.

I'll be the first to admit that beating the likes of Va Tech,
Kent-used-to-be-State, and Wake hardly makes for a #23 rating but that
background should be sufficient to beat the Tar Heels on the road.

TTom

> Chris, I suggest you post a bunch of disclaimers now and avoid the
> grilling like that which you are *ATTEMPTING* to put on Bob Hunt, who
> actually attended UVa.

    Disclaimers about what?  I think we're overrated in the Top 25 and I've
    already publicly said so.  If we were ranked #1 I'd be downright
    kicking and screaming about how we're not deserving, what with an
    absolutely worthless schedule.  Contrast this with the way BobHunt
    handled things lasted year, and ya start to get the picture of just how
    sneaky he's bein' ...
    
    
> I'll be the first to admit that beating the likes of Va Tech,
> Kent-used-to-be-State, and Wake hardly makes for a #23 rating but that
> background should be sufficient to beat the Tar Heels on the road.

    Er, I don't git it.  State's playing at home this week, not on the
    road.  Hence they should probably be a solid 7-point favorite, IMHO.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    	
    	Go Pack!  Should be a great game this Saturday!
    
    B.A.
    

 �        -< What were you thinking, BobHunt? WE DEMAND_AN ANSWER!!!! >-

 Rollward.   Tearward.   Guffaw-ward.
 
 �   Now, if you'd simply admit that UVa did not deserve it's number 1 rank
 �   last year we can be done with this whole thing.  (BTW, please spare us
 �   what the "experts" thought.  We wanna know what *you* thought and,
 �   assuming you didn't think they deserved it, (which is purty obvious)
 �   why ya didn't say so.
  
 Once again, it matters not what I think.   That *FACT* is that for
 three weeks they were indeed ranked No. 1 in the country.    To
 debate the merits of that ranking now makes about as much nonsense as
 arguing about the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin.  
 
 Justice was served all around lasted season.   The sycophants and
 naysayers got what they wanted when the Cavaliers collapsed and the
 Wahoo faithful got that rarest of all whiffs, three whole weeks on
 top of the hill.    
 
 The ink on the history books has long since dried.  Your only true
 interest in this matter is to see how far you can push me in trying
 to get me to say something you *desperately* want to hear.   That's
 sad.   Why don't you admit your honest intent and come clean ???  
 You're on a vendetta and you'll sacrifice nothing to slake your
 greedy thirst.
 
 After all, whether you know it or not, you've once again proven that
 the "ACC" in front of "Chris" is a pathetically faux moniker.   A
 *true* fan of the Atlantic Coast Conference, as you claim to be,
 would not be trying to rewrite history at the expense of a brother
 school.   
 
 For shame, Carolina Chris.   You've had much better days, amigo.
 
 Bob Hunt

One should note that a while back, when the Tar Heels Football program
stunk like Dean congratulating the other team with time left on the
clock, our friend Chris was desparately hoping that hoops would start.
Now, if you didn't know you'd think that he was a freakin fan.

> arguing about the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin.  

Let's start a pool. I say a_infinite number.

TTom

    FYI: Tar HeelH�*�s are ranked #23 this week.

    
    I can see what poor ACChris is getting at here and I think it's valid.
    He's been getting slammed for his "objectivity" in here for years (and
    deservedly so), and he's finally found a bone of his number one nemesis
    BobHunt to pick at in kind.  But BobHunt responds that it's okay for
    him to be blind to the evidence (and slam the "experts" who turned out
    to be right) because he's suffered!  Well, hail, guys, don't you think 
    that ol' ACChris has suffered, too?  What are those thirty good-sized
    welts on the back of his haid!  How 'bout a little decency and fair
    play here!
    
    glenn
    

 Et tu, Glenn ???
 
 � But BobHunt responds that it's okay for him to be blind to the
 � evidence (and slam the "experts" who turned out to be right) because
 � he's suffered!  
 
 You wanna hold up a piece a_evidence that I've been blind to ???  
 What datapoint could we possibly have overlooked in this debate ???  
 
 There has never been this much debate on a football poll in all the
 many years and different locations of SPORTS.   Never.   
 
 I held back *nothing* lasted year as this ridiculous debate raged on.   
 I *never* let my heart insist that the Wahoos deserved the top
 ranking ... whatever the hell "deserved" means.   I critiqued George
 Welsh for his very poor handling of the devastating Georgia Tech
 loss.    I analyzed the weak schedule game-by-game and pointed out
 the obvious disparities between the team's first-ever talent overload
 and its slate of traditional opponents.
 
 But does that satisfy the wolves ???  Hell, no.   Now, a full year
 later, I have to somehow satisfy someone's misguided revenge motives
 by admitting that they somehow didn't deserve some ranking by a bunch
 of coaches and writers.
 
 Take it up with the writers and coaches who do the voting.  They're
 the ones who were seduced by the big scores and the flashy Shawn
 Moore, Herman Moore, and Terry Kirby highlights.   They're the ones
 who valued an at-the-time undefeated Wahoo record over schools with
 tougher schedules and a loss or two, not me.   
 
 Take it up with the Big Ten refs who screwed Michigan with a terrible
 endzone call that cost the Wolverines their game against Michigan
 State and their shot at the brass ring.   Take it up with Miami who
 gagged big time against Ty Detmer's pass happy machine in Provo.   Or
 Notre Dame who lost to Stanford, of all teams, in South Bend.
 
 All I ever said *from my heart* was that I was enjoying it while it
 lasted.
 
 � Well, hail, guys, don't you think  that ol' ACChris has suffered,
 � too?  What are those thirty good-sized welts on the back of his haid! 
 � How 'bout a little decency and fair play here!
 
 Soup suffered ???  Au contraire, Sir Glenn.   Haven't you been paying
 attention ???  Soup *LOVES* Dean.   Over 700 wins, a dozen or more
 ACC titles, 11 straight Sweet Sixteens, 10 out of 17 big men in the
 NBA, and "The System" which is designed to specifically avoid those
 messy end-of-season, title-hauling peaks of team performance.   
 
 Dean can't make him any happier than he is right now.   1991 proved
 that.   A non-peak against Duke to give the Blue Devils the regular
 season title.   A meaningless teaser peak in the tournament, the fly
 swat run thru the East Region and then the delicious final non-peak
 against Kansas.   His dreams haven't been this wet since Dakich shut
 down Jordan.    Nah, I ain't worried about Soup's smile.   He's one
 happy camper.   By design.
 
 Bob Hunt

    >How 'bout a little decency and fair play here!
    
    Reading this note is like a_emotional roller-coaster for me: First 
    the inspiring selfless heroism exhibited in .105 and then the cynical
    obfuscation of a main, a_allegedly straight arrow of a main, who had
    the ball and the open shot last year but instead dribbled not only off
    his foot but also off his chin...
    
    MrT

I can't believe what I'm reading. Apparently the Bob is better 'n Dean
controversy has been settled via the backdoor. A common enema has
apparently united these once bitter foes.

TTom

 I'm done with this debate.   I can't think of any new comments that
 wouldn't already be just more skips on a broken record.
 
 I'm just going to pull up a comfy lawn chair, crack a cold one and
 then settle back to watch Soup and T take turns dropping their soap
 bars in the shower.
 
 Unbelievable.
 
 Bob Hunt

    > Unbelievable.
    
    Agreed.  It *is* unbelievable how sneaky and crafty you've been
    throughout this whole debate.  
    
    For instance, you claim you were under no obligation to report on
    this obvious violation of fairness and decency.  This excuse sounds
    *so* much like the accusations Congress was making in the midst of 
    Iran/Contra, and indeed, the accusations they're *still* making in 
    trying to prevent Gates from becoming CIA director!
    
    Bottom Line: 	Silence sometimes speaks volumes when evaluating
    			someone's moral code and SPORTS objectivity.
    
    Now, you may go along with this and admit you couldn't possibly be
    rational when your beloved Cavaliers were ranked #1 in the USA.
    Your SPORTS Objectivity was clouded.  You weren't thinking clearly.
    
    I cain accept this defense, on condition that it be equally applied
    to all the anti-Carolina bigotry you've displayed over the years.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I'm afraid that ACChris has you cold there, Bob.  Given your
    unwillingness (or inability) to "do the right thing" analytically
    in the 'Liers matter, then or now, you are in no position to 
    lambast anybody for refusing to set aside loyalties and make plain
    judgements of fact.
    
    And that's a fact.
    
    MrT

 To borrow from the late Billy Martin ...
 
 	"One's convicted and the other's a born liar."
 
 When you two shysters can be seen again on the radar scope of
 credibility, then you can spout your twisted "wisdom".
 
 Until then, keep up the good show.   The amusement is deluxe.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Quoting Billy Martin, eh Ketch?  And you thought *I* was teamed up with
    someone with a credibility problem.  Haw!!
    
    Actually I think it's time this thing was put to bed.  You've been
    exposed as a SPORTS unObjective Analyst twice within a 10-day time
    span, and frankly I'm concerned about your psyche.  
    
    I think though, that we cain all leave your name off the list of Most
    Credible Noters, of which John "O" Hendry is alone at the top.  Ya gots
    a great gift of pen, Bob.  You're smart, with a great memory.  But
    in the area of Objective Analysis, well, ... you got some work to do.
    Why not start by:
    
    A) Admitting that you had a moral lapse by failing to condemn the
       Cavalier's #1 ranking last year, and
    
    B) Admitting that your relentless Dean attacks are rooted in the 
       simple fact that he's beaten your beloved Wahoos so much.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Given that ACCrook is the ex-con, you cain only mean that I am "a born
    liar."  This hurts, Bob.  Hurts bad.  Two innocent college pranks and
    now I deservsuch shabby treatment?
    
    All I was doing was trying to rehabilitate you.  It's like a paralyzed
    but proud Viet Nam vet looking up from his wheelchair on the first day
    a therapy and viciouslsplashing his pretty nurse in the face with the
    blue-green sputum of hocker launched from deep in the diaphram.
    
    Sigh.
    
    MrT

	I don't really care about the Bob-Dean debate, and I don't really
	care if UNC is ranked in this week's football poll, nor that UVa
	was ranked #1 at some point last year.  I don't really care about
	the comment I'm about to make, either.  However, I'm feeling a little
	more ornery than the usual times when I am an RON.

	It does appear that Bob Hunt has become a less and less objective
	noter.  I still like reading his coments on the Eagles and Phillies,
	which seem objective; his comments on UNC are less so.  The more he
	notes in the ACC topics, the less objective he seems to me.  And, I
	suspect Chris is right, it probably is because UNC has beaten UVa
	so often in basketball.

	Nevertheless, even if he is not an objective observer, and even if
	he does beat on the UNC program too much, that doesn't invalidate
	the points he makes.  His motives may not be pure, but his content
	can still be valid.  UNC has lost a lot of big games that they shouldn't
	have, and at least a significant portion of it can be attributed to
	poor decision-making by Dean.

	At least, that's how it appears to me.

    list of Most Credie Noters, of which John "O" Hendry is alone at the
    top.
    
    place Waugamin up there, too, Crockmeister.  Yes, the very same
    Waugamain who dashed poor Air on the Designated  (withwith Snide's own
    numbers, btw), the same Waugamain who proved that Snuffer's one paltry 
    Title was a dastistickal inevitability, the same Waugamain who did all 
    that and more with expert number-crunching, yes, the same Waugamain who 
    stands alongside us in this thankless but necessary task of rehabilitation
    of our unappreciative but necessary patient.
    
    Poor MrT - "born liar" or college prankster

 � Two innocent college pranks and now I deservsuch shabby treatment?
 
 Hey, dude, you made your own bed, now you gotta snuggle up and snooze
 in it.   You shoulda thoughta that before you drained your last
 remaining shreds of credibility down the porcelain bowl.    Sympathy
 is in short supply in this note.
 
 But the Nam vet image was a good one.  Very colorful.
 
 Bob Hunt

> But the Nam vet image was a good one.  Very colorful.
 
Visions of MrT in a white dress with white nylons, and nurses cap...

Bob Hunt, useless legs tucked onto the leg supports of the wheelchair,
goobs a lugie that hits poor MrT right in the starched white bosom....

I am rolling!

 � It does appear that Bob Hunt has become a less and less objective
 � noter.  
 
 I sincerely appreciate your comments and your concerns.   However, I
 believe if you look back at this raging cesspool of a debate from the
 "big picture" angle, you'll see that I've lost not one ounce of
 objectivity, honesty and consideration for the facts.
 
 I, the ultimate Virginia Cavalier fan in SPORTS, started this whole
 thing off by bashing the head football coach of my very same Virginia
 Cavaliers for his atrocious on-the-field coaching decisions that cost
 the team, *MY* team, a well-deserved upset revenge victory over Ga
 Tech lasted Thursday night.   I ask you, was that not objective ???
 
 Immediately following, I was blasted for *NOT* saying something about
 their poll ranking one full year ago.   That issue had nothing
 whatsoever to do with the bad coaching topic I started ... yet I've
 been hounded and slapped around for a week now by two noters, one a
 convicted contest rigger and the other the most notorious prankster
 we've ever seen in this forum.
 
 To mollify them, I've admitted that the 1990 Cavaliers played a weak
 schedule when compared to their rare talent glut.   Was that not
 objective ???   I again blasted George Welsh's coaching decisions
 from lasted year that cost the team the No. 1 ranking and the
 mythical national championship.   Was that not objective ???
 
 I also recounted my entire fifteen year history of life and death
 with my beloved Wahoos and admitted, in front of everyone, that I
 felt nothing but pure unadultered blissful joy at their short-lived
 success lasted year.   Was that not an honest account ???
 
 So now it comes down to the fact that I refuse to cave in to two long
 time antagonists with marginal credibility who would have me blast
 the Wahoos for the voting decisions of the football coaches and
 writers across the country lasted year.   
 
 They want me to say that the team did not *deserve* what the writers
 and coaches thought of the team.   I didn't vote for the AP and UPI
 polls lasted year.   Who am I to tell the voters who to vote for ??? 
 
 I did not campaign for the No. 1 ranking, I did not solicit the
 votes, and I did not complain that it didn't come sooner.    Was that
 not objective ???   I said I enjoyed it.   Others want me to say I
 shouldn't have.   Who are they to tell me what I should or should not
 enjoy ???  Where is their objectivity and honesty in this ???
 
 � The more he notes in the ACC topics, the less objective he seems to
 � me.  
 
 I'm sorry you feel this way.  I would have hoped you would have seen
 that I've gotten more and more objective as the ACC notes accumulate
 over the years.   
 
 I've never failed to give Dean Smith the credit he deserves.  I've
 acknowledged each and every one of his accomplishments and there are
 many of them.   He is without doubt one of the most successful
 college coaches in the history of college basketball.   I've never
 said he wasn't.
 
 But there are those who would have us believe that Dean Smith has
 never made a mistake in his entire career and this just isn't true.  
 He is hugely responsible for the many underachievements and
 disappointments in his program's pursuit of championship victories.  
 The factual results on the basketball court speak for themselves and
 I've never denied a single one of them unlike his devoted legions.
 
 � And, I suspect Chris is right, it probably is because UNC has
 � beaten UVa so often in basketball.

 Everytime I see this thought expressed here in print in SPORTS, I am
 utterly baffled how anyone can possibly think otherwise.   I have
 stated and restated and restated again and then stated it and
 restated it some more ... now apparently I have to do it again ...
 
 UNC's record over UVA has *EVERYTHING* to do with why I enjoy seeing
 Dean Smith lose basketball games.   I don't care one way or another
 if UCLA loses to Stanford, for example.   I will not shed one tear of
 despair if Georgetown loses to Syracuse or if Syracuse loses to
 Georgetown, for that matter.
 
 But, do I enjoy watching Dean Smith frantically wave 93 subs into the
 game, pick up two technical fouls, stubbornly insist that his seniors
 shoot their way out of a collective shooting slump, bench his most
 effective freshman player, and then exit in disgrace on national tube
 with a title just a sniff away ???
 
                       *** OF COURSE, I DO ***
 
 When has it ever been otherwise ???   But, you and several others
 apparently confuse this entirely emotional and highly subjective
 feeling that's been nurtured over the many years of suffering at the
 hands of the Tar Heels with what is deemed to be a dishonest lack of
 regard for the true facts and the true results.   It just isn't so
 and it never has been so.
 
 Is Dean Smith a great coach ???   	Of course, he is.    
 Is Dean Smith a great recruiter ???   	Probably the best who ever lived.
 Has Dean Smith won a lot of games ???	Yep, over 700 of 'em.
 Has he coached NBA stars ???		Indeed and Jordan is the best ever.
 
 Is this not an objective look at the man ???   Is this not an
 acknowledgement of his successes ???    Is this not a fair and
 equitable treatment of him and his program ???
 
 Do I enjoy seeing him lose ???   Yes, I do.   Is it because he beats
 my team a lot ???   Yes, it is.    You guys act like you've
 discovered the Rosetta Stone or the Holy Grail when you come to that
 realization.   It truly baffles me that anyone can think otherwise.
 
 But, regardless, it *NEVER* gets in the way of the *FACTS*.   
 
                   *** NOT NO WAY, NOT NO HOW ***
 
 Thanks for listening to me.   I hope I've made my points and cleared
 up any confusion.
 
 Bob Hunt

    >Is Dean Smith a great coach ???      Of course, he is.
    
    
    I think I'm gonna be sick.  Smif' consistently underachieves, fails,
    at the highest level a competition where by rights is the only place
    the "G" string can be donned... and you go off calling him great.
    
    Greatness should be earned, Lombardi-style, under the greatest
    pressure at the highest level - and you go off endowing Greatness to
    a main simply cuz you have been caught at the same mistake as Crock
    (inability to separate loyalty from fack for purposes a scientific-
    objectivism).
    
    MrT - "Born Liar" or Innocent College Prankster?
    

 �   >Is Dean Smith a great coach ???      Of course, he is.
 �   
 �   
 �   I think I'm gonna be sick.  Smif' consistently underachieves, fails,
 �   at the highest level a competition where by rights is the only place
 �   the "G" string can be donned... and you go off calling him great.
 
 Okay, fine.  Then I'll assume that the other 117 lines in 155.139 are
 right on target.    Thank you.
 
 I'll admit to bending over a little extra backwards to prove without
 a shadow of a doubt that I don't hold back anything from the Snuffer
 that is truly due him.    So, we'll change this line to ...
 
   - Is Dean Smith a famous coach ???      Of course, he is.
 
 There, now you can wipe the hurl-whiff off your chin and get back to
 repairing your credibility rating.
 
 Bob Hunt

    	I think objectivity is like middle of the road politics, vanilla,
    boring and dull.  I think we should measure a true SPORTS noter's
    NOTY qualifications by his subjectivity.  That ought to give Midnight
    and Whitehaid the ealry lead.
    
    				/Don

    >Is Dean Smith a great coach ???     Of course, he is.
    
    I had a feeling if I kept the pressure on long enough I'd come away wif
    the "W".  Wagamain was right:  Kudo's for ACC Chris!!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >Is Dean Smith a great coach ???     Of course, he is.

Now, if I have it straight, the tag team of MrT and Knorr disagree but
the current opposition, Bob Hunt, agrees with Knorr, to which MrT
disagrees and Knorr is climaxing with a cigar.

All this in the football topic, to boot. Keep that cigar handy, Chris. If
the Tar Heels win at Raleigh this weekend, you'll have something to smoke
about. The question to be contemplating is not how often or how greatly
Dean successfully loses by design, but whether or not your beloved Mack
Brown really has a program in the works at Chapel Hill.

I think not, at least not in this game.

TTom

 �   I had a feeling if I kept the pressure on long enough I'd come away wif
 �   the "W".  Wagamain was right:  Kudo's for ACC Chris!!!!
 
 Yeah, Soup, if you keep the pressure on long enough, you will come
 away with something.    Somebody wanna hand him some tissues so he
 can clean himself up, please ???   
 
 Where are the Sarasota police when we need them ???
 
 I write 118 lines and they both ignore all but 1 and then they take
 that one line completely out of context and declare their victory.  
 
 Pathetic.    Slasher's right.  Screw objectivity.   Too much grief
 for too little return.    Might as well just go back to watching the
 Bend Over Brothers keep their lather in full froth.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    North Carolina (over Skate) and Michigan (over FSU) are my upset 
    specials of the week!
    
    glenn
    
    
    
    
    

> I write 118 lines and they both ignore all but 1 and then they take
> that one line completely out of context and declare their victory.  
    
    Sorry Ketch, but ya don't score any points for quantity.  MrT, to his
    credit, learned this lesson long ago.
    
    Most of your diatribe was the same old propaganda you've been
    spewing for years.  This time though, you just consolidated it all in
    one place.
    
    No, the only new ground was your admission (at last!) that Dean Smith
    is indeed a Great coach.  It took a full court press to force your
    turnover, but main was it worth it!
    
    
    re: TTom
    
    This Saturday is a huge one, no question.  My heart says Carolina, but
    my head says State.  The fact that we've had ZERO competition the first
    two (2) games and still given up an inordinate amount of points
    (combined with State's proven ability to put points on the board) tells
    me we need to score at least 3 TD's plus a_couple FG's to win this one,
    and I doubt that's gonna happen.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

Chris,

I look for a low scoring event. If State scores 27 points (3TDs, 2 FGs)
your Tar Heels will be in a major world of hurt. That is, if State
doesn't cough up the ball numerous times.

FWIW, the line has moved to State -8, but I'd be happy to win by 1. I'll
take a Pack victory over No Carolina, anytime, anyhow.

While we're at it, here's the predictions for Saturday:

NC STATE	8	no carolina

State covers, something like 21-10. The only way No Carolina is in the
game if it scores in double figures and State coughs it up.

CLEMSON		8^	georgia tech

Clemson wins but not by a TD. How about 24-20. Some of the Techsters are
back, having missed the Virginia game. Clemson will have a hard time with
Shawn Jones. If they don't contain him, the Tigers could lose this game.

VIRGINIA	6^	duke

If Duke is a dog, I see an upset here. Duke has looked good the last 9
quarters, especially the second half against Rutgers. Virginia needed
lucky breaks and Tech breakdowns to keep that game close. I don't see the
'Hoos stopping Duke's passing.

wake forest	1	NORTHWESTERN

I like Northwestern. They looked better in a losing cause last weekend
and Wake was totally dominated. Unless Wake shows up like Rice, this
should be a home court victory.

TTom

    
    All those concerned about another possible National Championship 
    travesty involving a cupcake-munching ACC team better root like hell
    for Georgia Tech over Climzin.  THIS COULD BE YOUR LAST CHANCE!
    
    glenn
    

    .73�Clemson
    .73�Sept 28 Ga.Tech
    
    	I'll take Tech..by 10!
    
    .73�Duke
    .73�Sept 28 at Virginia
    
    	Duke by 7
    
    .73�North Carolina
    .73�Sept 28	at N.C.State
    
    	I'll take State by 3
    
    .73�Wake Forest
    .73�Sept 28 at Northwestern
    
    	Wake by 7
    
    B.A.
    

It should be remembered that the coaches of the teams, whose fans claim a
sham from last year's Ga Tech Champeenship, voted for Ga Tech to be the
National Champeen. 

TTom

> It should be remembered that the coaches of the teams, whose fans claim a
> sham from last year's Ga Tech Champeenship, voted for Ga Tech to be the
> National Champeen. 
    
    Yeah, I know, and I've long argued that coaches are in even less a
    position to make detached, objective, and informed ranking decisions 
    than sportswriters.  The coach's mentality is "Undefeated?  Well, then
    I guess Billy Jim Bob did his job this year".  Who always does the most 
    yelling and screaming when the subject of tough scheduling at ol' 
    Football Factory U comes up, and why should this mentality (downplaying 
    quality of opponents) be reinforced in the championship polls?
    
    Is the UPI poll dead yet, anyway?  I know UPI was in bankruptcy
    proceedings last year, and the coaches' poll I see in my newspaper
    these days is the CNN one.  How many coaches' polls are there and 
    do the same guys vote?  These kind of questions are some of the 
    reasons why I like to stick to the original, longest-established, and 
    most universally-recognized poll in the country, the AP...
    
    glenn
     

But Glenn, the AP writers, like the coaches, often give away the
privilege to vote to others. And like the coaches, often are only
familiar with regional teams.

Without a playoff, there's no hope to ending the possibility of a team
with a weak schedule being number one while another team, with an
inferior record but superior ability, ends up down the list. Ga Tech's
UPI/Coaches poll #1 ranking is far from the worst case scenario. BYU's
title a couple of years comes to mind.

And even with a playoff, there may still be controversy. For instance if
it starts with the top 8 teams, you can be sure #9 and #10 will complain.
And you'll still have some fans that dismiss a champeenship as only a
year end peak, which of course is another matter altogether.

TTom

�    Yeah, I know, and I've long argued that coaches are in even less a
�    position to make detached, objective, and informed ranking decisions 
�    than sportswriters.  The coach's mentality is "Undefeated?  Well, then
�    I guess Billy Jim Bob did his job this year".  Who always does the most 
�    yelling and screaming when the subject of tough scheduling at ol' 
�    Football Factory U comes up, and why should this mentality (downplaying 
�    quality of opponents) be reinforced in the championship polls?
 
 So, to put it another way, the coaches' football poll is basically
 invalid for all kinds of legitimate reasons you espouse and yet you
 would still stand behind those who *demand* that I must serve their
 interests and somehow admit that the result of this bogus poll was
 not deserved.   Whew.
 
 � These kind of questions are some of the reasons why I like to stick
 � to the original, longest-established, and most universally-recognized
 � poll in the country, the AP...
 
 Except, of course, like lasted year when you don't like what the AP
 poll has to say.  Then it's time to blame the so-called undeserving
 team, its all-of-a-sudden weak schedule, and its happy fans.
 
 Sigh.   Those are tough hills to climb, Glenn.   I'm doing well just
 keeping the hypocritical wolves at bay.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    	Sportswriters are like arm-chair quaterbacks...they know everything,
    yet couldn't do it if they're life depended on it!
    
    	Let a Playoff decide.  It works for other sports, why not Feetball?
    
    B.A.
    

    First of all, I didn't claim perfection for the AP poll, only a
    personal preference within an admittedly flawed system.
    
 > So, to put it another way, the coaches' football poll is basically
 > invalid for all kinds of legitimate reasons you espouse and yet you
 > would still stand behind those who *demand* that I must serve their
 > interests and somehow admit that the result of this bogus poll was
 > not deserved.   Whew.
    
    Huh?  I have *never* asked you to renounce the results of the bogus 
    poll.  I made a statement last year, based on my observation that 
    Virginia displayed a very questionable defense against even more
    questionable opponents, that they were in no way, shape, or form the 
    best team in the country, regardless of what *any* poll said.  The
    response that came back was (to paraphrase): "We're unheralded, we're 
    undefeated, the traditionalists are just jealous and can't accept our
    success."  At which point Virginia went out and proceeded to get beat
    by both semi-traditional and small-time opponents alike...
    
> Except, of course, like lasted year when you don't like what the AP
> poll has to say.  Then it's time to blame the so-called undeserving
> team, its all-of-a-sudden weak schedule, and its happy fans.
    
    No.  There is no "blame" being levied.  Only simple disagreement.
    What can I say?  I'm only giving an opinion, based on the evidence I
    have in front of me.  I've never sought to begrudge anyone enjoyment
    of their team by voicing that opinion, as has been the charge in this
    note.  If you've followed the college football discussions, I'm just as
    critical of "my" teams (like by stating that Penn State was overrated 
    and overranked both this year and last, even after big victories...)
    
    And, yes, I'm getting bad feelings and deja vu all over again with 
    Clemson this year, even though I think they're a pretty strong team.
    But how can we know how strong they really are?  If you look at the
    current schedules (excepting Maryland's and maybe Georgia Tech's), the 
    quality of which the conference has long since outgrown, it's not much 
    of a stretch to see *someone* coming out of the ACC undefeated on a 
    consistent yearly basis (soon to be Florida State, more than likely).  
    Is that what champeenships are made of, though?     
    
    glenn
       

>    	Let a Playoff decide.  It works for other sports, why not Feetball?

For now, the major barrier is the dollar focused PAC-10 and Big 10/11 who
refuse to decommit to the Rose Bowl. The other conferences have signed up
for a type of champeenship using a formula of 4 bowls designed to
maximize the opportunity of the 2 top rated teams playing each other on
New Year's Day. 

If the Rose Bowl continues as an also ran bowl, as it lately has become,
we can look forward to #1 playing #2, coming to a bowl near you.

TTom

�    What can I say?  I'm only giving an opinion, based on the evidence I
�    have in front of me.  
 
 Thank you, Glenn.   Your opinion is noted and, for the most part,
 very well-founded.     There's nothing at all dishonest or unjust
 about differing opinions.
 
 The Bend Over Brothers would do well to remember that they're also in
 the opinion business on this matter.   If only they'd drop their
 shabby masquerade and acknowledge this simple concept, we could all
 agree to disagree and put this sorry chapter to rest.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    >We're unheralded, undeafeated, the traditiomalists are just jealous 
    >and can't accept our success."
    
    Waugamain, I aim NOT begrudging Bob "Witch" Hunt enjoyment of his
    team's putative success; I simply begrudge the craven Intellectual
    Dishonesty and udder hypocrisy that went into the above paraphrase.
    Oh yes, today he accuses me being a_analist and a liar, but what was
    *he* lasyear?  There's only a fine line tween champ and chimp,
    Analyst and alist, and too often craven loyalism forces one across
    that line to something much less than fine.
    
    After years oquite accurately pointing out that ACCrock was usurping
    Greatness for his choke-a-holic False Idol bhiknowingly hiding behind
    self-serving, unreasonable, phony standads, Bob "Witch" - seizing the
  unexpected opportunity for a taste of fantastic self-indulgence himself - 
    threw it all away.
    
    His crime wasn't enjoyment; his crime was the Crock-style trading in
    the Almost Close's inflated floating grid currency, neay worthless
    bills pegged to no known valuation standard, gold or otherwise, to take
    himself a free ride.  In doing so Bob "Witch" not only tacitly endorsed
    the 'Liers free ride, bualso CrCrockmeister's longstding practice o of
    refuting hoops' Titular standard in favor oa titular one based more
    on PR than actual play, as with his 'Liers anthe other AlmosClose
    gridsters.
    
    We axed him to refute PR in favor of scientif-objectivism, to taremove
    the "I" and put back the "y" (as in why) in "analyst" but he was ping
    for phony Greatness in the mode of Snuffy Smif', and who could blame
    poor Bob "Witch" after having borne witness tthe Carolina Blew scam
    up close and personal for so many years.
    
    No, I don't begrudge him his enjoyment, only his willingness to dilute
    this file's gold standard for personal gain.
    
    MrT

 Did Ronald Reagan "deserve" his election wins in 1980 and 1984 ???  
 Did George Bush "deserve" his win in 1988 ???
 
 Careful now, consider very carefully that they both faced some pretty
 pathetic competition.   Did they "deserve" it nonetheless ???   The
 voters spoke, the results are history.    The winners got to enjoy
 it, the losers pissed and moaned.
 
 If football poll "A" is bogus, then who cares who deserves what place
 in the rankings.   If poll "B" is valid, then the nattering nabobs of
 negativism should just shut up and sip a tube of Prep H.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Bob, you continue to miss the point and, giving you the benefit of the
    doubt, I cain only conclude you're doing so on purpose.  (Yet another
    example of your ongoing trend toward sneakiness ...)
    
    Let's get this straight.  No one, repeat, no one, denies that Virginia
    was ranked #1 in the USA during a 3-week stretch last year.  That's
    established FACT and cannot be disputed.
    
    It's also an established FACT that the schedule leading up to
    Virginia's seizure of the number 1 spot was, er, a wee bit shaky.  In
    short, they hadn't played anyone who was even within sniffing distance
    of the Top 20.
    
    Now during the fateful 3 weeks many folk were stating a pretty good
    case about the fack that Virginia didn't deserve to be #1.  The case
    was a strong one that was later proven correct.  (In short, we were
    smarter than the coaches or the writers, which is no big surprise,
    since it happens all the time.)  What we wanna know is, why weren't
    *YOU* smarter than the writers or the coaches?  Why weren't *you*
    publicly documenting the fact that your beloved Cavs were undeserving
    of top spot.  You spent plenty_a time documenting your worry about 
    the next pansy in the Cavs march toward a mythical, yet offered nothing on 
    the subject of the travesty of justice that was taking place!
    
    Now, no more 'bout the AP or UPI or CNN or USA Today polls.  They're
    immaterial.  Many pointed out that they were inaccurate, and that
    Virginia didn't deserve to be #1.  For some reason or other you
    shrugged your responsibility to wear the Objectivity Hat, perhaps
    'cause your judgement was clouded in fandom.  Fair 'nuf.  Trouble is,
    as a result of this huge Objectivity lapse, you will always be labeled
    "Subjective" in other sports debates where your judgement is no doubt
    similarly clouded!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    

    Chris -
    
    So, do you wear a 'Subjective' hat?   
    
    Will you ever admit that 1-31 is a horrendous champeenship mark for a
    guy who is probably the bested recruiter of all time, a 'great' coach
    as you have labelled him, and a demi-God?  Is being tied with John
    Thompson and Jerry Tarkanian on the all-time Champeenship lists a good
    thing?
    
    This is the lamest arguement I've ever read in this file - though it
    has been entertaining.
    
    What does Virginia, or its fans, have to be ashamed of?  for being
    ranked #1?  There schedule is no weaker than many, many other schools.
    And that is a fact.  Simply take a look at the Tuesday USA Today and
    check the schedules of Div. 1 schools.  you ever do this Chris?  In
    fact - I don't remember you ever showing any interest in football until
    you brought up this point.
    
    Bob Hunt has been more objective towards Virginia football, and hoops -
    and other things close to his hears - such as Eagles football - then
    you've ever dreamed of.
    
    He's castigated the coach, and he freely admitted to going along for
    the ride.  Unlike you, who has never done anything then babble the UNC
    'Party Line' about ACC champeenships, the 'system' and the other inane
    doctrine that is part of the Dean Youth Brigade's (DYB) code of
    conduct.
    
    You've never answered one question openly or honestly.  
    
    Is Florida State deserving of #1 right now?  Who have they played?
    
    We've all figured out this ruse you are trying to pull Mr. FAUX ACC
    Chris, and it isn't fooling anyone.  Think about it.  Your only true
    friend in this 'debate' is MrT - your main antagonist.  Methinks you
    are being taken for a ride and don't even realize it...
    
    JD

    I want to stand by Bob Hunt for a minute here.
    
    No one, but no one, should be expected to be 100% objective when it comes 
    to the matter of one's favorite team or alma mater.  It's virtually
    impossible to do so.  I will never be objective about my own school
    when it comes to winning or losing.  I dream every year that its teams
    are going to be in contention for the National Championships in their
    sports and I have every expectation of their doing so until I'm proven
    wrong.  When I was in school and we played BC in football, I had every
    expectation that we were going to out to kick butt, when the sad
    reality was that we usually got our butts kicked.  That's OK - that's
    what being a fan is all about.  If AP was stupid enough to rank our
    basketball team #1, I'd gladly accept it and enjoy it for as long as it
    would last.
    
    I am not 100% objective about the University of Massachusetts.  Chris Knorr
    is not 100% objective about the University of North Carolina.  Tom
    Shaughnessy is not 100% objective about Indiana University.  Michael
    Brooks is not 100% objective about Michael Jordan.  Bob Hunt should not
    be expected to be 100% objective about the University of Virginia.
    
    Bob has bent over backwards, in my opinion, to be objective about
    Virginia and its poll ranking last year.  I don't see why he should
    renounce it.  I wouldn't.  I don't see why he should be held to a
    higher standard of conduct than everyone else.
    
    John 

 � It's also an established FACT that the schedule leading up to
 � Virginia's seizure of the number 1 spot was, er, a wee bit shaky.  In
 � short, they hadn't played anyone who was even within sniffing
 � distance of the Top 20.
 
 Established FACT ???   Hadn't played anyone ???   Oh, really ???   
 
 On Saturday, 8-Sep-1990, Virginia defeated Clemson for the first time
 ever by a score of 20-7 in Charlottesville, Virginia.   The goalposts
 did not survive.   Clemson was within sniffing distance of the Top 20
 before that game, withing sniffing distance of the Top 20 after that
 game, and they were within sniffing distance of the Top 20 the entire
 season.   *Well* within sniffing distance.
 
 Virginia was ranked No. 1 in the country for the final three weeks of
 October, 1990, one solid *MONTH* after beating Clemson.
 
 I guess your nose was Snuffed up and you couldn't accurately
 calculate the "sniffing distance".   Maybe you oughta remove your
 nose from the source of the Snuffiness.
 
 I seem to remember that factual intellectual honesty was your game,
 amigos.   Hey, but what's a little factual intellectual honesty
 between friends ???   
 
 Especially when perverting it assists your rhetoric.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    Re-several hundred...
    
    	Do you guys EVER talk about this years football games? or do you
    just talk about last season's over and over and over?
    
    	How about some updates on this years players who will make the
    headlines/both good and bad.
    
    B.A._who's_fed_up_with_comical_bull_crap_about_nothing!
    

 � Do you guys EVER talk about this years football games?
 
 What a marvelous idea, B.A. !!!   Let's see now ... hmmm ... Oh,
 here's one ...
 
 What did you think of the poor coaching job George Welsh did lasted
 week at Georgia Tech ???   Me too, you're right.   He really gagged
 big time, didn't he ???
 
 I was going to send the following letter privately to John Hendry and
 JD but I decided to post it here instead.   There's nothing in this
 letter that I wouldn't say in here so in here it goes ...
 
 
 
 JD and Ninj,

 Thank you for the support.   I know I should just blow it all off and
 laugh about it but it's real hard to do as you can see.   I wasn't
 about to cave in to them but it still felt nice nevertheless to see
 you two ride in to lend a hand ... I appreciate it and I owe you.

 Combat noting against T is really a no-brainer by now.  It's obvious
 that his one primary goal is to keep the pot stirred.   That's been
 his goal for years.   He almost always leaves gaping holes that you
 can drive a truck through ... like the famous "Norfolk" reference or
 his blatant North Stars bandwagon ride.

 Chris, on the other hand, I feel bad for.   He has little or no idea
 how to go about friendly jousting with his rival "enemies".   

 I mean, look at you and me, JD.  You *KNOW* that I loathe the Jints.  
 Hell, I'd cheer if their team bus blew a flat tire, ya know what I
 mean ???   And, I know you can't stand the Eagles and you think
 Randall is overrated and so on.  

 But, if anything, you and I have become great noting friends
 *because* of the rivalry, not it spite of it.   Just about every year
 we exchange "Good luck!" and "May the best team win ..." wishes and
 all that.    I teased the Jints a few weeks ago about their 1-2
 record and the exchange there was perfect.   No hot air rhetoric ...
 just simple agreements, disagreements, points, and counterpoints.

 John, I know we don't share a *blood* rivalry but we both *KNOW* who
 we're both thinking of when the Iggles and Pats meet every three
 years.   Hell, I *STILL* have those stat sheets you sent me from the
 1987 game.   And, if the Phils and the Sox ever meet again ... we
 still owe you a payback from the 1915 Series :-) ... or if the Hoos
 play the Minutemen, we'd do the same thing ... the electronic
 equivalent of a good handshake and then we'd root ourselves silly
 trying to win.

 Sad because Chris could have that if he ever wanted it.   Yet, he
 seems content with numbly reciting the Party doctrine and refusing to
 even consider any and all possible blemishes on you-know-who.

 Anyway, thanks again for the support.   Means more than you think.

 Bob Hunt

We haven't heard from  MrT today, as yet, but poor Chris lost some
serious ground in this "whatever". JD and John Hendry checking in didn't
help the cause at all. And the inaccuracy of not "sniffing" Clemson
really hurt. 

B.A.: The Heels lose at State, there goes the hoped for season: losses to
Clemson and Ga Tech; struggling with Maryland and Duke; maybe a chance to
beat Wake and the Heels will be left with having to beat Virginia to
salvage any kinda ACC season. What happened to the Top 20? or was it the
Top 30?

More and more, it looks like Chris should go back to his earlier position
of ingoring football and waiting for hoops. So, maybe it's time to head
back to 17 and preaching the faith: 1 for 31, 32, and counting...

TTom

    The only "gaping hole" inis the odious orificyou managed
    managed to blow in your once-proud objectivity.
    
    Here's w it goes: Yousmarmy protestations about your stas
    as a long-suffering 'Liers fan is irrelevant.  And so is your
    happy report thait was mistaken voters and not you who created
    the c and ill-gotten #1 ranking.  And so is John Hery's
    correct observation that  one itotally objective.
    
    What'terribly relevant heris that you cravenly sunk into the
    same self-serving Crockian quagmire that annoints 1-31 as Great.
    Hell, just yesterday you did the sself just yesterday with
    the Snuffer.  And today you start talking about how good the 'Liers
    schedule was!  And to top it all off you now blow Snide Air about
    holes that don't exist (guess that canard stems from the fack that
    you cain't isolate a void, eh?).
    
    Your bottomed out bottom line: Y've Crocked-out,  by practicing the
    samsalivating subjectivism that he has.  The subjectivism itself
    ain't a sin, what's hard swallow is that you are forever more in
    no position to criticize Crockmeister on Carolina Blew.  I guess I'll
    have to carry that cross to its Final Solution alone now, but given
    that you recently conferred Greatness on thehing One this was a
    fait accompli anyw, wasn't it?
    
    How low cain you go.
    
    MrT

 Good one, T.   Had to use my decoder ring, though.   Is it just my
 screen or was every 3rd consonant and every 6th or was it 7th vowel
 missing ???
 
 Hey, listen, if you wanna take the point and lead the anti-Snuff
 brigade, be my guest.    
 
 Is that what this was all about ???   This was just some weak-assed,
 mealy-mouthed, Russian-style coup d'etat for the "King" slot on the
 Anti-Snuff org chart ???   Amazing.   All you had to do was ask,
 dude, I'd have given it up no sweat.
 
 Hah-hah, JD was right all along.   Soup got snookered major league
 big time on this one.   Way too funny.    Okay, T, you got it.  Do
 it.  Let's all reconvene over in Note 17 and watch the fireworks.
 
 Meanwhile, it's football season here in Note 155.
 
 Bob Hunt

    > Soup got snookered
    
    Haw haw haw!!!!!!!!11111111  Talk about spin-control Ketch.  Makes the
    job the Republicans did after the Quayle/Benson debate look downright
    amateurish!  
    
    
    > Hey, listen, if you wanna take the point and lead the anti-Snuff
    > brigade, be my guest.
    
    Yea T, go to it.  I personally cain't *wait* for BobHunt to chip in
    with usual deadly assaults, so's I can recall his infamous "Dean is
    Great" note!  Oh yes, without I doubt I got snookered by this whole
    thing!  Oh my, yes!!!
    
    Gotta admit I wish you woulda kept that letter private though.  Too
    sad, thinking about poor me and how I cain't (electronically) shake
    hands with my noting pals after a tough Carolina game/season.  Can't
    understand why, given the phenomenal Dean polorization this file is
    famous for!
    
    For the record though, JHendry is right.  No one can be expected to be
    unbiased where their team is involved.  (Except for MrT, of course.)
    Also for the record, I have way too much fun in this file to do any
    electronic handshaking where Carolina is concerned.  "Agreeing to
    disagree" when it comes to college hoops would have me heading outa
    this file quicker than Dean yanking a freshman after a bad shot.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

       So Chris, did Virginia play Clemson lasted year or not?
                                    Denny

>                   -< YOU are a nattering nabob of nadirism >-

>              -< Ralph's name is spelled NadEr; nadir different >-

Although, MrT, you must admit that from time to time we do
reach a nadir in here from time to time.

Haven't seen a zenith in a while though, not since the Trial.....


'Saw    

       How about a pinnacle, aint seen one of those for a while.
                                         Denny

How about Ralph Sampson. 

Hey Bob Hunt, how come Ralph didn't win one at Virginia? Wait a minute.
He didn't play football, did he?

TTom

    Sheesh Bob, you open up the kimono like a mainly man, offering yourself
    up, and getting hit with salvos from the TWO. And you is fighting back.
    Kinda like "hit me with yo' best shot"  Soooooo.
    Let's redo this act.
    
    First, I'll assume directorship.
    Someone powder Bob's disjointed nose.
    'Saw, hand me that CD, you know, the Ian Drury and the Blockheads
    instrumental. And get the Sportsters Glee Club ready.
    
    Ok, Bob, ya ready with your speel? Good. Everyone take their places.
    
    Ready, The Tirade, Act 1, Scene 1, Take II, ACTION
    
    Bob: Blab, Blab, Blab, Blab
    T:   Blab, Bla. b (Modem use) Blaaab
    Chris: More Blab ,Blab, Blab
    
    Fade in Ian Drury Instrumental.
    
    'Saw and the SPORTSTERS Glee Club:
    
       " Hit me with your rhythm stick. Hit me. Hit me.
         Hit me slowly hit me quick. Hit me. Hit me.
         Hit me with your rhythm stick. Three fat-headed persons.
         Click. Click. Click. Hit me. Hit me. Hit me!!.
         Hit me with your rhythm stick. T and Chris, Ich liebe dich!
         Hit me. Hit me."
    
    Instrumental fades out
    
    CUT. It's a wrap. PRINT IT !!
    
    
    MikeL
    

 � Hey Bob Hunt, how come Ralph didn't win one at Virginia?
 
 He choked.   Terry Holland choked.  Jeff Lamp choked.   Othell Wilson
 choked.    Hey, I loved 'em all but they didn't deliver the mail when
 it counted the most.   Too many heartbreaks with too much talent.
 
 Somebody, please go get some wet towels and place them gently on
 Soup's fainted face.   I just know this "rare" burst of honesty
 drained all the blood from his haid.
 
 Duke at Virginia this weekend.   Virginia has scored beaucoup points
 on the Blue Devils the pasted two years.   Devils have looked better
 this year, though.   I don't like the Wahoos' chances in a close one
 given George Welsh's inexplicable weaknesses in handling tight
 situations.    
 
 If the Wahoos can score quickly and take 'em out of it, perhaps they
 can cruise.   Spread is 7 ... If the score is any less than that
 going into the 4th quarter, take the Blue Devils.
 
 And, yes, Ralph Sampson did play football.   He was on the Jefferson
 Dorm intramural team.   He was a bitch to cover on those long fly
 patterns.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.   What is so godawful important about the word "great" ???  
 
 Geez, it still doesn't wipe away the fact that Snuff's a pathetic
 1-for-31 in the title chase or that he's blown some mind-boggling
 upsets.   
 
 Nor does it diminish his rock hard haid and his rock hard ideas ...
 like holding his stars back from starring or refusing to play zone at
 home or any of about a hundred other fossilized notions.
 
 Such a meaningless word with such huge implications.   Looks like the
 Soupster is hungrily scrounging for any little crumb he can get.  
 Wonder when that "victory" cee-gar he's been a_puffin on will BANG!!!
 in his face.    Probably some nice early spring Saturday nexted
 March as his beloved 32-0 and top-ranked Tar Heels lose to Fordham or
 Coppin State.    That will be GREAT !!!

    	That pinnacle is a tough card game Denny.  There must be something
    like 200 face cards in every deck!
    
    				/Don

> ... Spread is 7 ... If the score is any less than that
> going into the 4th quarter, take the Blue Devils.


How do I get in on a game that has already started? 

And in the 4th quarter, yet!

BTW, that's Ralph Pinochle, a real card.

TTom

    Clemson will return to their days of dominance in the ACC by beating
    Tech tomorrow.  I'll be surprised if they don't cover.  Too bad this
    game's only regional - I love watching games in those 80,000+ seat
    madhouses.  If the Tigers win this week and next week at Georgia, look 
    for 'em to go undefeated.
    
    Interesting cover story in USA Today about Death Valley and how they
    run down the hill and pet the rock before the game and their great
    record there.  Sounds like a great place to see a college football
    game.
    
     
    Joe

� How do I get in on a game that has already started? 
� And in the 4th quarter, yet!
 
 Believe it or not, you *CAN* enter mid-game bets in many sports books
 in Vegas.   Of course, they shift the spread considerably based on
 the progress of the game.
 
 Saw this lasted fall at DECUS.   Amazing place.  Vegas, that is.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    All this Pnn-a-cul stuff reminds me of the ol' cheer:
    
    "Icicle, Bicycle, Pinnacle RAH!"
    "Beer, Gin, SISH SHOOM BAAAAH!"
    "Spherical, lyrical, miracle, DAH!"
    "Pizza, Popcorn, LA DEE DA DEE LAAAH!"
    "Whimsical, Quizacle, PNNACLE, PAH!"|
    "*******, ******, OOOOH OOOH AHHH!"
    
    DJ

DJ JD,

Could you off-line let the lunatics know the translation of them
asterisks?

Inquiring mindles and all that, don't you know.

TTom

    
    Look for Mack Brown and the 'Heels to come out sky-high tomorrow and
    give the Pack a pounding, on the road, no less!  If they don't, it's a
    choke!
    
    glenn
    

    To Bob Hunt's last:
    
    If the Heels are going to come into the playoffs 32-0 and get beat,
    wouldn't it be nice to have a power like the University of
    Massachusetts knock them off?
    
    John

 From your lips to God's ears, Ninj' ...
 
 'Twould be dee-lish ...
 
 Bob Hunt

 specially if it was in the 1st round at the Worcester Centrum....

    re: .-1
    
    Despite your increasingly rising Objective stock Waugamain, you are
    wrong in regards to the Heels.  
    
    Carolina football has enjoyed the benefit of several top-notch
    recruiting years, which has inflated expectations.  See, the trouble
    with football recruiting is that, unlike hoops, you almost always need
    several years to see the fruits of your labor.  Most quality frosh are
    redshirted, and the redshirted frosh/sophomores are physically at a
    disadvantage compared to the upperclassmen.
    
    We're also somewhat banged up injury-wise, the most serious being AA
    linebacker Dwight Hollier.  
    
    Having said all this I do agree that it's time to start to see some
    return on investment.  Mack's in his 4th year now, which means it's
    time to start producing.  Last year was a step in the right direction
    and I think we're capable of going to some kindof bowl this year.  But
    beat a host NC State team on the road?  I think not.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    > But beat a host NC State team on the road?  I think not.
      
    Okay, Chris, if that's the way you really feel, but I don't want you
    sniffin' around trying to mooch any of my celebratory Dom Perignon
    after the "big" win tomorrow.  I'm going with my man Mack and the 
    sheer sweetness of the unexpected but predictable upset.  You can 
    stick with the 'Snuffer and your bottle of ripple in a paper bag, and 
    keep living the life of disappointment.  I'm going with the future!
    
    'Course if the Heels lose, you and all those other Baby Blue 
    frontrunners will undoubtedly be venting all that pent-up frustration
    over the 1-for-31 thing in a most misdirected way:  Fire the football
    coach!
    
    glenn
     

>    'Course if the Heels lose, you and all those other Baby Blue 
>    frontrunners will undoubtedly be venting all that pent-up frustration
>    over the 1-for-31 thing in a most misdirected way:  Fire the football
>    coach!
    
    Careful glenn, or that Objective Title we've handed you, the one that
     puts you on the same plane as the great "O" Hendry, will be snatched
    away!
    
    In reality, Carolina football coaches are in a most unenviable
    position.  Trying to match Dean's accomplishments both on the playing
    field and academically is a tough road to hoe to be sure.  When push
    comes to shove though the fat-cat alum's (the one's who git coaches
    fired) can probably accept a less productive Carolina football academic
    factory, so long as the W's are coming in.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

                              
    > I'm curious W-main (tm).  Why the love for Carolina football?  Does
    > this date back to our Lawrence Taylor glory years, or is this a recent
    > phenomenon.  (Like, is Mack Brown your distant cousin or somethin' ...)
    
    Well, it's like this Chris.  Last week I was thinking about how the ACC 
    now has some of the best teams and the best football the country has to
    offer (as shown by a combined non-conference record second to none), and 
    about how the ACC seems to dominate most of the discussion in this fine 
    forum, so then I asked myself the logical question: what exactly have I 
    been missing all these years?  So I had to adopt myself an ACC football 
    team.  I figured that SPORTS is owed at least one objective_analyst Tar 
    Heel fan, not one a those that John Hendry says cain't openly and
    clearly look at the team from the outside.  So why not jump on the 
    bandwagon of my dark horse candidate to outright win the title of the 
    best college football conference in the land!
    
    Besides, Mack Brown used to be Barry Switzer's head assistant and ol'
    Barry taught him *everything* he knows, so combined with my desire to
    embrace only the cleanest and most tightly-run of academic/athletic (note
    the order) programs, Carolina again seemed to be a perfect fit.  For
    example, my reports outta Chapel Hill this very week are that a star
    player is being sternly but confidentially disciplined within The 
    System (Mack's, with caps, as opposed to Dean's lower case) for a
    physical altercation with his girlfriend (no lie, Chris can surely
    confirm).  That's the kind of no-nonsense handle on things I expect from 
    the coach of *my* team!
    
    So, in closing, if you guys want the truely objective low-down on ACC
    football, this here Heels' fan is your man...
    
    glenn
    

    Good one Glenn!
    
    If'n ol Mack larned everything from Barry, then he better unlarn em
    quick-like.
    
    I remember that commercial he did with ol glue-hair Jimmy Johnson
    (Touchdown Johnson !!) about a foosball-type game. Shoot, I was
    watching the commercial on TV, and I still checked to see if I had
    me wallet. Those two together couldn't look God straight in the
    eye.
    
    MikeL
    

 Hear-ye !!!  Hear-ye !!!   Gather round ye fans and bow down and give
 homage to the newest, spiffiest, brand-spankin' newiest Bible on the
 market ...   I present to you, my friends, the ...
 
           %%% North Carolina *FOOTBALL* Excuse Bible %%%
 
 Chapter 1:	Recruiting takes a long time
 
 �   Carolina football has enjoyed the benefit of several top-notch
 �   recruiting years, which has inflated expectations.  See, the trouble
 �   with football recruiting is that, unlike hoops, you almost always need
 �   several years to see the fruits of your labor.  Most quality frosh are
 �   redshirted, and the redshirted frosh/sophomores are physically at a
 �   disadvantage compared to the upperclassmen.
 
 Chapter 2:	Injuries ... in a sport where everyone plays with pain
    
 �   We're also somewhat banged up injury-wise, the most serious being AA
 �   linebacker Dwight Hollier.  
 
 Chapter 3:	Road games
    
 �   But beat a host NC State team on the road?  I think not.
 
 Stayed tuned for further chapters yet to come including some of those
 well-known favorites ... 
 
 -	The other team was hot
 -	The other team was emotionally overcharged
 -	Poor field goal kicking
 -	Terrible referees
 -	And much, much more ...
 
 On sale now at Soupdenbooks everywhere.   Only $19.95 plus tax.
 
 Bob Hunt

How sweet it is!

NC State 24, No Carolina 7

Before this game, there were 2 main themes that the press was playing up. 
The first was how No Carolina has dominated the recruiting the last 
several years. The second was how good State's defense was. Well one has 
to wonder when those highly rated recruits are gonna show up. Or is it 
that Mack Brown is that bad.

The game itself had a couple of themes. State defense is that good. Some 
stats: 5 QB sacks, 3 interceptions, 6 tackles for loss, and No Carolina 
gained more yardage on return then they did rushing. And State fumbled 3 
times to give the Tar Heels more chances. But the coupe de gravy was a 99 
yard interception with seconds remaining. (FWIW, those that had more than 
a passing fancy on the line, won or loss on that play: No Carolina was on
the  State's 2 threatening to score).

The other highlight of the game was the play of redshirt freshman Geoff 
Bender. State was leading 3-0 when starting QB Terry Jordan broke his 
wrist. (He'll be out the rest of the season). In fact, this was the real 
turning point of the game. No Carolina unsuccessfully tried a fake punt 
on 4th and 1. State held. Jordan went out, Bender comes in and throws a 
touchdown pass to put State up 10-0. They never looked back.

This made it four in a row over the Tar Heels. Four years of a lot of 
talk about nationally rated recruiting. Now a group of players will leave 
Chapel Hill with a perfect record against State, oh fer four.

On another note, No Carolina's Bobby Thigpen had to leave the game on a
stretcher after a big hit in the fourth quarter. There was concerns that
he had broken his neck. In terms of irony, this was a dramatic moment. It
was Thigpen who had been arrested earlier in the week. He choked his
girlfriend until she passed out. He was arrested and in typical Tar
Heel/King Rice style was given a private reprimand. And he started the
game. A lot of coaches in a lot of programs would have at least suspended 
him. Not Mack Brown. Not the No Carolina Tar Heels. I guess they needed 
the win. Too bad, Mack.

TTom

 Glenn, I do hope you packed a parachute with you.   The ejection seat
 release handle is right below your seat cushion there, dude.    Just
 give it a quick upward tug and you'll be outta Chapel Hell in a flash.
 
 I do believe, fellow SPORTS fans, that we have just borne witness to
 a brand new and exciting mutant strain of the Kiss Of Death virus ...
 
 	... The Waugaman Whammy ... Wow !!!
 
 Do me a favor, Glenn, willya ???   Stay away from my Hoos, please.  
 As you well know, they're badly overrated and undeserving of all the
 attention ... especially the kind you just dished out.  Ouch.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Tough but certainly not unexpected (for this fan) 'L' for the Heels.  
    Basically, we got our baby blue butts kicked, and I fully expect W-main 
    (tm) to jump off the bandwagon.  (Hint: If you're looking for a dark 
    horse candidate glenn, jump on the NC Skate bandwagon.  TTom will hate 
    ya for it, but I give them a solid shot against Tech next week, and a 
    'W' there puts 'em in the Top 15, minimum.)
    
    Me, I'm used to this sorta thing.  Back_to_back 1-10 years, which came
    on the Heels of some horrid Crum years.  Last years 6 wins were
    primarily at the hands of week foes, with the exception of the tie to
    the eventual co-mythical Techhaids.  
    
    No siree, this was one Carolina fan who didn't fall for the hype.  Too
    bad we all can't be so Objectively honest.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Whoops!  I guess there was one too many on the Tar Heel bandwagon!  My
    apologies, Chris; I guess I've done my work here and'll be getting off
    now, thank you... ;-)
    
    That's *Tommy* Thigpen, not Bobby (the Chisox relief pitcher), TTom.
    Thanks for the report, though.  Thigpen was a pre-season All-ACC
    linebacker, so you knew he'd play when push came to shove (double
    entendre fully intended).  Just one more strike against UNC's phony 
    squeaky-clean reputation within both the state and the ACC.  How come
    Chris didn't belly up to the bar and come clean on this by RENOUNCING
    the kid's participation in the big game before we had to blow the 
    whistle, though?  Do I detect a case of INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY?  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    No intellectual dishonesty on my part, 'Main.  I honestly didn't know
    Thigpen beat up his girlfriend, and believe he most definitely shoulda
    been suspended for the Skate game.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    For all those whords of weasels about to bog down the Easynet in
    pointing out an apparent Thypocrisy (tm) with this statement cause of 
    the King Rice thing, ferget it.  Rice did *his* choking long after hoops 
    season was over, and therefore a suspension woulda been pointless.  
    Dean did his disciplining outa the public eye, which is undoubtedly a 
    crime around these parts (due to the incredible Thyporcritical_nature 
    of most anti-Dean bigots) but, in reality, the ideal way to handle
    these types of sordid affairs.  HTH.

>    Dean did his disciplining outa the public eye, which is undoubtedly a 
>    crime around these parts (due to the incredible Thyporcritical_nature 
>    of most anti-Dean bigots) but, in reality, the ideal way to handle
>    these types of sordid affairs.  HTH.


Richard Nixon hoped that any disciplining of the Watergate burglers
was done out of the public eye too.

Thank God for Woodward and Bernstein......

    	So basically Faux, a Tar Heel athlete can commit a crime as long
    as it isn't during the season.  The day you're intellectually honest
    is the day Al Sharpton donates big bucks to the B'nai Brith.
    
    				/Don

    Looks like this Thigpen kid took Carolina's rich tradition for 
    choking one step too far.
    
    Big10 Tom

    
    	What a way for Skate to Skate right over the heelbillies!
    
    Tough game next week..Tech at Raleigh!
    
    BTW, Tech beat themselves at Clemsuck...The touchdown the tiggers got
    was not a TD. IMHO
    
    B.A.
    

B.A., anybody!

Does anyone know what is going on with Maryland? Lasted week they got
destroyed at home against W.Va. Supposedly, there was some controversy
about their QB or maybe he was hurt? Anyone know?

TTom

    
    	Haven't heard anything down this way TTom...I would have thought
    that they would have performed alot better against W.Va.
    
    	
    B.A.
    

georgia tech	2	NC STATE	

The difference in this game could well be a FG. Georgia Tech comes off a 
hard loss at Clemson while State spanked No Carolina. I like State at 
home, although it's very difficult to be objective about your own school.

clemson		8^	GEORGIA		

Clemson will win this game so the only point worth discussing is by how 
much. Georgia looked strong at home beating LSU pretty bad. Then folded 
at Alabama. Clemson was lucky to win and might be playing for an 
undefeated season. Make this one, Clemson by 10.

VIRGINIA	9^	kansas		

The Cavaliers evidently found themselves lasted week at home against 
Duke. Kansas is no Duke so this should be a mismatch. Virginia by at 
least 2 TDs.

PITTSBURGH	11	maryland	

Based on Maryland's performance at home against W.Va. and Pittsburgh at 
home, I look for the Panthers to cover. If Maryland shows up like they 
did against Virginia and Pittsburgh plays like they did against Minnesota 
it could be close. But it's Pitt at home, I think.

DUKE		15	vanderbilt	

Will the real Duke please stand up. We've seen the real Vanderbilt and 
they ain't pretty. Here's hoping that Duke thinks its Rutgers and maybe 
we can see a rout.

NO CAROLINA	vs	william & mary

Hide the women and children, this won't be pretty. Look for the Tar Heels 
to try to make their season in this mismatch. Mack Brown is trying to 
build a program so he's got to have these games on the schedule. Look 
for a repeat of the Cincinnati game, 50 something to few, if any.

> clemson		8^	GEORGIA		

> Clemson will win this game so the only point worth discussing is by how 
> much. Georgia looked strong at home beating LSU pretty bad. Then folded 
> at Alabama. Clemson was lucky to win and might be playing for an 
> undefeated season. Make this one, Clemson by 10.

    You think Clemson will have that easy of a time?  I tend to think they
    could have a tought time with it being a night road game - those are
    tough.  I expected more of Clemson last week against Tech.  This one is
    on ESPN BTW.
    
> VIRGINIA	9^	kansas		

> The Cavaliers evidently found themselves lasted week at home against 
> Duke. Kansas is no Duke so this should be a mismatch. Virginia by at 
> least 2 TDs.

    Kansas plus the 9.5 has to be one of the best bets of the weekend IMO. 
    The Jayhawks are better than most people realize and will probably end
    up in a minor bowl.  I think they will win this one outright.
    
    
    Joe

Joe,

My dislike for Clemson football has always caused me to try to prepare
myself for the worst, which, in this case, is that they'll win. Looking
at it objectively also tells me they'll win. I'd love to see them Dawgs
take it to them between the hedges. 

As to the matter of Kansas, I'll rethink this one. I think Tulsa beating
Texas A&M was a fluke so beating Toledo, Tulsa and New Mexico State
hasn't proven it to me. But Bob Hunt better watch out if you got the
right insight on this one. 

TTOm

 Kansas also has the revenge factor from lasted year's whipping at the
 hands of the Wahoos.   The 9.5 point spread scares me.
 
 North Carolina plays William and Mary.   Well, well, well, isn't that
 special ???   Wonder if Soup will step forward now before the game
 and start denouncing the Heels as a bogus bunch of cupcake-munching
 freeloaders ???
 
 I don't think I've ever rooted for Bill And The Wife in anything.  
 Oh, well, might as well start now.
 
 Bob Hunt

I wish I'd had taped lasted sunday's Mack Brown show. On it, he
apologized to Tar Heels because he lost. Bob, you'd be proud how he
quoted from the "Newly authorized Tar Heel Football Bible": injuries,
we're young, injuries, coulda, injuries, woulda, injuries, etc.

Now I'm looking forward to his comments after this mismatch. Now, I'm not
getting into the larger issue of cupcakes, just that after this no
contest you'll think the Heels had just won the national championship.

TTom

    .210�georgia tech	2	NC STATE	
    
    	State by 7
    
    .210�clemson		8^	GEORGIA		
    
    	Clemson by 14
    
    .210�VIRGINIA	9^	kansas		
    
    	UVa  by 10
    
    .210�PITTSBURGH	11	maryland	
    
    	Pitt bt 21
    
    .210�DUKE		15	vanderbilt	
    
    	I'll take Vandy...
    
    .210�NO CAROLINA	vs	william & mary
    
    	UNC by 10
    
    B.A
    

Clemson news (contradiction in terms?):

o In 1981, Clemson won the national championship. In the third game of 
that  season, they beat Georgia Tech, defending ACC champion. Your got 
it! This year they beat Georgia Tech, defending ACC champion (not to 
mention a_ununanimous national vote-in type champion). In 81 the score 
was 13-3. This year, 9-7. Whatever that means. Of course, the story goes 
that Clemson tried to paint tiger paws all the way to the Orange Bowl but
ran out of  paint in Richmond.

 o In the off season, Clemson was hyping RB Ronald Williams for Hiesman
Trophy. That was before recent negative publicity that put Williams on 
the sideline. Clemson distributed a stand up poster of Williams and 
someone sent 3 of them to Georgia LB Dwayne Simmons. Simmons reaction was 
appropriately paranoid, expressing concerns that someone[(s)] "must think 
I'm a joke".  No Dwayne, the Clemson joke was in the first item.

TTom

� o In 1981, Clemson won the national championship. In the third game of 
� that  season, they beat Georgia Tech, defending ACC champion. Your got 
� it! This year they beat Georgia Tech, defending ACC champion (not to 
� mention a_ununanimous national vote-in type champion). In 81 the score 
� was 13-3. This year, 9-7. Whatever that means. Of course, the story goes 
� that Clemson tried to paint tiger paws all the way to the Orange Bowl but
� ran out of  paint in Richmond.
 
 You sure about this, TTom ???   I don't think Georgia Tech was the
 ACC football champion in 1980 ... they had just joined the ACC in
 1978 and their football program wasn't all that great then.
 
 I think you meant that Clemson beat the Georgia Bulldogs by 13-3 in
 the 3rd game of the 1981 season.  The Dawgs were the defending 1980
 national champs with Herschel Walker and Clemson used that win to go
 all the way.
 
 Tech wasn't in the picture back then.   At least that's what I
 recall.
 
 Bob Hunt

    We should know within the next 3 weeks if Clemson will finish the
    regular season undefeated.  After this week's game between the hedges,
    their next 2 games are against Virginia and NC State - but both are in
    Death Valley.
    
    Joe
    

    
    Bob's right; North Carolina won the ACC in 1980, and finished 11-1 and
    tenth in the country.  Course it was all downhill from there for Dick
    Crum, and when he didn't live up to Dean's legacy by actually having
    the nerve to win a few bowl games on end-of-season peaks, he had to
    be purged in the best interests of the program...
    
    glenn
    

    > Wonder if Soup will step forward now before the game and start denouncing 
    > the Heels as a bogus bunch of cupcake-munching freeloaders ???
    
    The Heels schedule the past several years has been bogus, so yes,
    you could say they're cupcake-munching freeloaders.
    
    Tell ya what, Mack might find himself in serious trouble if he doesn't
    beat somebody (legitimate) this year.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Got the info from USA Today. Their words regarding 1981 were "defending
titlist Georgia Tech". Maybe they meant "Georgia" being defending
national titlist which Georgia Tech is this year, at least half-way.

The saga of Dick Crum is a typical Tar Heel scenario. When he was in his
prime it was nothing but raves. He had for a while an excellent if not
undefeated post season record, which, as Glenn accurately reported, set
him apart from Dean in that Dick won the last game his team played.

Something went sour - I'll let those in the know tell the full tale, if
they wish - and now it's nothing but badmouthing Dick Crum. The final
blow, I seem to recollect was the Ram club - Alumni and Boosters - bought
Dick out and sent him packing to Kent State which proceeded to lose about
every game they played, change their name to just plane Kent and dumped
Dick.

TTom

Big win for State on Saturday. Finally, when their offense finally had to
do something, they showed up. State had been winning primarily on the
strength of their defense and a soft schedule that included ACC dormats
Wake and No Carolina. For most of the day, Ga Tech kept the offense shut
down. State scored twice defensively. Ga Tech also scored defensively and
on 2 offense runs. A missed extra point by State had them losing in the
4th quarterby 21-20. A combination of a TD drive and ensuing 2 point
conversion and a 4th down hold pulled the win out 28-21.

In other games, Virginia continued to answer the pundits by beating
Kansas, 31-19. The grapevine had this as one of those lock line specials
upsets with Kansas supposed to win the game. Go Hoos.

Clemson looked pathetic and anemic in losing to Georgia who looked the
better prepared team in every way.

Maryland kept it close but Pittburgh won at home, 24-20.

Wake continued to look bad, I mean real bad, losing at home to double A
Appalachian St, 17-3.

No Carolina found someone else they could beat, William & Mary. They
managed to give up 36 points but scored 59 and won at home.

TTom

> In other games, Virginia continued to answer the pundits by beating
> Kansas, 31-19. The grapevine had this as one of those lock line specials
> upsets with Kansas supposed to win the game. Go Hoos.

    OK, I'll take my dose of Monday morning crow.  I guess KU isn't that
    much improved.
    
> Clemson looked pathetic and anemic in losing to Georgia who looked the
> better prepared team in every way.

    Dammit Clemson!  You guys just gave ND another notch in the polls.  :^(
    I only caught bits & pieces of this one, but at this stage of the
    season it doesn't look like Clemson has much of an offense.  Playing on
    the road in the South sure is a tough assignment.
    
    
    Joe
     

 �                    <<< Note 155.202 by NAC::G_WAUGAMAN >>>
 �          -< Next stop: Climzin (who may be cleaner now than UNC) >-
 
 Glenn, please, I'm begging you.  Please please stay away from my Wahoos. 
 Your Kiss Of Death is positively lethal.   First the Heels and now the
 Tigers spin down in flames just as soon as you smooch 'em.
 
 Clemson's loss couldn't have come at a worse time for the Hoos.   Virginia
 visits Death Valley nexted Saturday and all Clemson will have for its
 motivation is the memories of this past weekend's loss to the Dawgs *and*
 lasted season's first ever loss to the Hoos.    Wonderful.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Oh Glenn - you mind becoming a Redskins fan soon?   
    
                             JD

    How long cain it be before Waugamain jumps on the NC State bandwagon?
    The Pack are poised to make a mythical Title run!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Hey, Knorr, watch whatchyur saying. State don't need no bandwagon
jumpers. If I recollect, the consensus opinion of the experts were that
Ga Tech would win. Let's just leave it that way.

Clemson is waiting in Death Valley for State and its bandwagon. I
wouldn't get too excitable about anything until then. And as for the
mythical title, only Washington is standing in the way of a real title
bout this year. Everyone should root for Washington to lose, if only in
the Ro$e Bowl and we need 2 others to be undefeated, such as Miami or
Florida State and hopefully Tennessee or Oklahoma. Then 2 undefeated can
duke it out.

TTom

    
    	State still has a long way to go to win the ACC...Va, Clemsuck, and
    Maryland.
    
    	Not an easy task!
    
    Go Pack!  
    
    B.A._who's_never_left_the_bandwagon!

B.A.,

Watch State beat Clemson and lose again to the 'Hoos. That would be about
6 straight. I don't think Sheridan has beaten Welsh since he's been at
State.

TTom

    
    	re-,1
    
    	You're right...Dick hasn't beat him yet. But this could be the
    year..The Yahoos are looking pretty tough right now..Don't be suprised
    if they beat Clemscuk! at Clemsuck!
    
    B.A.
    

 >�                    <<< Note 155.202 by NAC::G_WAUGAMAN >>>
 >�          -< Next stop: Climzin (who may be cleaner now than UNC) >-
 >
 > Glenn, please, I'm begging you.  Please please stay away from my Wahoos. 
 > Your Kiss Of Death is positively lethal.   First the Heels and now the
 > Tigers spin down in flames just as soon as you smooch 'em.
   
    Naw, I ain't going to touch the 'Hoos.  They've already lost to
    Maryland anyway; that's punishment enough.  For the time being, I 
    don't regard anyone from the ACC as a risk to national security, so 
    I'm going to lay off for a while.  That may change if the Pack starts 
    to get a swelled haid, though... 
    
    glenn
    

>    I'm going to lay off for a while.  That may change if the Pack starts 
>    to get a swelled haid, though... 

Glenn,

I'm calling State and asking them to tank it against Marshall. Maybe then
they'll have a chance against Clemson.

BTW, who do you like in the No Carolina-Wake game? Here's hoping...

TTom

CLEMSON		10	virginia	

Look for Clemson to get back on track back at Death Valley. Rub that 
rock! Drub them Hoos! Remember lasted year and the first loss ever. 
Remember lasted week being outclassed on TV. Virginia may not score. 
Tigers by an easy 17.

GEORGIA TECH	14^	maryland	

Just a hunch but I give Maryland a chance here. On the line, not on the 
game. Tech will win the game but Maryland showed signs of waking back up 
at Pittsburgh lasted week, but of course my prediction of Pitt didn't 
hurt none, neither. Ga Tech by 10, a big did not cover.

NO CAROLINA	20	wake forest	

How bad is Wake? Crushed at home by 2A App State. How bad are the Tar
Heels? For one, they're still crying about the whipping they got at 
State. Don't want to answer how William & Mary managed to score 36. Well 
Wake is no William & Mary. No Carolina by 24.

Duke and State have the week off.

TTom

Knorr tricked me into signing up for the Poop Sheet. And I'm regularly
grateful to him for that. See this is a magazine that covers ACC (and the
area) sports and to give you an indication of how objective this is, it's
published in Chapel Hill. 

Got the latest issue in the mail and it had a section wherein it reviews
how the league members are doing with football this year. The theme of
the State "review" was along the lines of sure they beat No Carolina but
they have a stagnant (quote) program and can't match the recruiting that
Mack has done and just wait until all that recruiting pays off.

The theme, and title, of the Tar Heel review was that everyone should be
patient with Mack Brown and to wait silently while all that recruiting
started to pay off. I mean it's only been 4 years and it's widely
heralded that he's out recruited State and, gee, if it weren't for
injuries, hell, they could just about beat anyone. And after working that
for a couple columns they let you know that the wrestling team was doing
fine.

I had to reread it a couple of times. I thought National Lampoon had
started a new satire. No Carolina is on the verge of greatness. That'll
happen about the same time Dean wins another hoops championship. I'm sure
BobHunt will want to hold  his breath.

TTom

TTom --

Did it mention that any of their opponents had possessed and unusually
hot hand when they played them, thus accounting for an excellent loss?

How many of the Star Heels had the flu this season....


These are important things that need to be taken into account for the
National Rankings!!!!!!

    .233�CLEMSON		10	virginia	
    
    	Watch out for the hoos!  Take the points!
    
    .233�GEORGIA TECH	14^	maryland	
    
    	Tech is really mad now...Tech by 21
    
    .233�NO CAROLINA	20	wake forest	
    
    	Who cares?  Heils by 10..in a "close" game.
    
    B.A.
    

No, they're mainly working the injury angles. I swear, they're still
talking about what if there weren't no injuries they coulda beat State,
maybe. No metion made as to how State played without their defensive
captain and how the State QB left the game with broken hand.

Actually, in all fairness to the program, they're recruiting was very
much overrated. Chuckie Burnette, the current inept QB, came in at least
the All-American level. Unfortunately, he's really not very good, even
for No Carolina.

TTom

    Virginia will not only cover, they will win.
    
    GT will cover easily.
    
    CR
    
    (Does Duke really have TWO weeks off in midseason?)
    

 �   Virginia will not only cover, they will win.
 
 Wahoos covered but didn't win.   Didn't lose either as final score was a
 20-20 tie.   Frustrating tie, too, because the Hoos had a 10 point lead
 with about 5 minutes to go.   Tigers scored a touchdown and then got the
 tying field goal with under a minute.   Hoos kicker Michael Husted missed
 a 34 yarder with 0:01 left.   A moral win but it don't mean squat in the
 standings.   Sigh ... Woulda, shoulda, coulda ...
    
�    GT will cover easily.
 
 They did.  Blew the Twerps away.
    
�     (Does Duke really have TWO weeks off in midseason?)
 
 Yes, their game with Clemson was switched to sometime in December in
 Tokyo, Japan.   Otherwise, they would have had only one week off.
 
 Bob Hunt

It's time to join the NC-State-is-very-overrated-in-the-polls Bandwagon.

Step 1, Declare inflated rating by the numbers:
CNN/USA Today has the Pack rated at #9. I've seen #11 in another poll. 
This means that they would beat the likes of Tennessee and Penn St. I 
don't think so. The Pack may perform admirably against these teams but 
would certainly not be favored, even at home.

Step 2, Badmouth the talent:
State is playing their second string QB, missing their defensive captain, 
lost a handful of players to the NFL draft, and the stars are a midget 
from Garner and WR who used to play QB.

Step 3, Setup a slur on No Carolina:
The problem for the Pack is that they've only played Ga Tech who's 
playing near the Top 30 level. Va Tech is the only other team that's
competitive. The other victims are the truly bad programs of Kent (nee 
State), Wake and No Carolina.

Step 4, Predict a demise:
Upcoming, this week, they cup-cake-munch on Marshall. This will set up 
the match at Clemson, possibly for the Conference Championship. If and 
only if the Pack can win this game can we talk about a place in the 
polls. And if they don't take in on the chin in Death Valley, they'll 
probably lose to Virginia.

Step 5, Work in another slur on No Carolina:
Next week's win against Marshall would put the Pack at 6-0 and guarantee 
a Bowl Bid. They're not going to drop much as long as they win. The 
Pollsters are over enamored with undefeated records. But after Marshall 
the Pack won't have the luxury of facing Mack Brown for the remaining 5
games.

Step 6, Closing comments and renewed affirmation:
So I'm going to avoid the scurrilous attacks of the righteous right and 
simple fess up to the truly scandalous way in which NC State had tricked 
the voters (and remember this is only a vote by the uninformed) and over 
achieved in the eyes of CNN (who even votes?).

TTom

    Very, very Intellectually Honest of you, TTom.  If *ONLY* a certain
    unnamed ACC fan woulda been so honest last year at this time we
    could've saved mucho disk space ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Cain't believe he fell for it that easily, TTom.   Hook, line *and*
 sinker.   Very very nicely done.
    
 Bob Hunt

    TTom,

    	I'm surprised at you!!!!

    	That midget from Garner can fly!  I agree that State is
    over-rated..at the moment...but only time will tell.

    	*If* State can get by Marshall and the tiggers, only then will they
    be a top 10 team.

    	Don't overlook Marshall...they're a strong team.

    B.A._Go_State!

The scandal continues. I saw the AP poll today. It had State at #11. But
we must look at some other details to fully appreciate the breadth of
bogusity. 

Looking down the list to see who else got points listed we find No
Carolina with getting 10 points. That means that somewhere out there in
voting land, 10 points worth of ignorance was applied to the Tar Heels.
Obviously, the voters are either thinking this is basketball or haven't
noticed how truly bad the Heels are in football under Mack Brown. Maybe
they're still reading the hype about *GREAT RECRUITING* or are just plain
stupid.

The point I'm making is not how bad the Tar Heels are. That's a valid
point, but rather this point is who can believe any poll in which this
Tar Heel football team receives any votes.

Maybe after Clemson. I'm waiting to see the Hoos. Then we'll talk.

TTom

 North Carolina at Virginia this weekend.  It ain't quite hoops season just
 yet.   Not as long as this game is left on the sked.
    
 After the Hoos tough tie in dreaded Death Valley lasted weekend, I'm
 looking for them to spank the Heels but good.   
    
 You hear what ahm a_sayin', George Welsh ???   No holding back, no ties,
 and do not leave the field with a timeout in your pocket.  I don't care if
 you're up by 50 points ... call time and then throw it deep.
    
 I wanna see some Heel butts get kicked.
    
 Bob Hunt

    I ain't looking forward to this game - not one bit.  Mack has already
    proven he can't beat anybody this year, despite having a reasonable
    amount of talent.
    
    I'd look for something in the 31-3 range ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Quick and dirty:

VIRGINIA	8	no carolina	

	Virginia covers but not as bad a Knorr is predicting.

maryland	10^	WAKE FOREST	

	Wake is terrible, Maryland rebounds, Terps by a couple of TDs.

georgia tech	6^	SO CAROLINA	

	The Techsters beat the Cocksters by 10.

NC STATE	n/l	marshl		

	Who knows? State wins but what price glory?

TTom

    .248�VIRGINIA	8	no carolina	
    
    
    	I'll take the yahoos!  Va by 21!~
    
    .248�maryland	10^	WAKE FOREST	
    
    	Hum....Take Weak and the points
    
    .248�georgia tech	6^	SO CAROLINA	
    
    	Tech in a rout!~
    
    .248�NC STATE	n/l	marshl		
    
    	No line? That means trouble for the pack...I'll take the pack!
    
    B.A.
    

>    	No line? That means trouble for the pack...

You said a mouthful there, B.A. State rallied in the final minute to edge 
Marshall 15-14. With 3 minutes to go, Marshall interecpted State and
returned it to State's 1. Next play, TD and Marshall is up 14-3. What
happened next can best be attributed to luck, home cooking and miracles.

State marched down the field and on 4th down threw and incompletion. The
Refs - and all-ACC officiating team - called interference on what looked
like an uncatchable ball. 1st down. Another interference call saved State
again as they scored and missed the attempt for 2. Marshall is still up
14-9.

On sides kick - actually a good clean no ref-assisted play - recovered by
State. Again on 4th down, Marshall is called for off sides. Very late
flag and State had another chance which they used to score the game
winning TD.

In other results, Georgia Tech got handed their hat at Columbia, losing
to South Carolina 23-14.

Maryland scored at the end of the game to barely beat Wake, 23-22.

Meanwhile, in Charlottesville, No Carolina continued their descent. No
Top 20 here as they lose to a sluggish Virginia, 14-9. The Tar Heels
should have gotten a_academy award for boring play and ineffectual
offense. 

On another front, the poll crisis continues although some voters are
starting to see the light. State dropped to 10th in the CNN/USA Today
poll. In an apparent shakeup among voting members, all vestiges of Tar
Heel votes were purged. No Carolina received no votes.

TTom

 The Marshall coach was livid after the NC State loss.    Unbelievable
 officiating.
 
 South Carolina really surprised me.    They had the look of a team that
 was already dead and buried.   They were coming off a 10-10 tie with La
 Tech, the same team that Houston scorched earlier this year.    So, they
 go and whip Ga Tech.   Proof yet once more that you have to have nerves of
 steel to bet on games.   Tech shoulda been a stone lock.   Ouch.
 
 And, yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.   Thank you, thank you, thank
 you.   Ooooh, I just *LUV* beatin' dem Tar Heels.    So very sweet.  
 Heels haven't won in C'ville since 1981.   Dee-lish.
 
 Bob Hunt

> And, yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.   Thank you, thank you, thank
> you.   Ooooh, I just *LUV* beatin' dem Tar Heels.    So very sweet.  
> Heels haven't won in C'ville since 1981.   Dee-lish.
> 
> Bob Hunt


I was tired, dirty, standing in the Providence RFC's clubhouse, with the
golden hue of victory surrounding my body, the amber nectar in my cup
going down so well, when I looked at the TV.

The flashed the Virginee-Star Hells score, and I raised my cup and
said "This one's for you Huntmeister!"

It made a sweet day just a little sweeter.....


'Saw

Mack Brown and his "If it weren't for injuries or whatever this week's
excuse is" is wearing thin in Chapel Hill, at least among his players.
Several were quoted as saying that they thought the program should be
further along by now. After all, this is the 4th year of nationally
ranked recruiting, don't you know.

Where's Dick Crum when you need him?

TTom

 � After all, this is the 4th year of nationally ranked recruiting, don't
 � you know.
 
 But, TTom, recruiting takes a long time, don'tcha remember ???    That was
 Chapter 1 in the Carolina Football Excuse Bible.
 
 After they recruit them there in ol' Chapel Hell, it takes a good solid
 year or more before they've mastered the simple things like putting their
 shoulder pads on straight, tying their cleats, and putting that mascara
 stuff under their eyes.
 
 This all takes time, you know.   We can't have Mack Brown coming in and
 making an *immediate* impact, can we ???    Heaven forbid that somebody
 actually succeed beyond the Baby Blue Formula ... that's how Crum got
 canned, remember ???
 
 'Saw, thanks for the tribute, dude.   I owe ya one.   Maybe nexted time
 I'm in C'ville, I'll get you one of those really great looking orange and
 blue Wahoo rugby jerseys.
 
 Bob Hunt

> 'Saw, thanks for the tribute, dude.   I owe ya one.   Maybe nexted time
> I'm in C'ville, I'll get you one of those really great looking orange and
> blue Wahoo rugby jerseys.
 

I'd be forever indebted!

You know, I don't have a team I root for in the ACC.  I tend to support
Alabama in the SEC, and I don't wanna be sounding like /Don the
convert, but I'm thinking that I'll just start following Virginia.


And to head off any complaints from others that I'm not an alumnus,
it's true, I'm not.  I do root for my Alma Mater, but CCSU has such
an abyssmal record for the past 1000 years or so, I just root for
them to stay close before they lose....8^)


'Saw_says_Go_Wahoos!

    	I knew Marshall would be trouble...but we had our Clemson refs
    working the game and it paid off! :*)

    	This weeks game will be the test! Clemson in the valley! I'll be
    there with the Pack Booster Club(3 buses)from Raleigh who are coming in Friday
    night for Bar-B-Q at my Sister's house.

    	Looking forward to a fun weekend with the Clemsuck folks down
    here...always giving them a hard time.

    B.A._Go_Pack!
                                    

B.A., Give em hell in Death Valley. Try not to get to close to the
rubbing rock.

Saw, watch out for those Hoos. The only fans/alumni that make them look
reasonable are the Tar Heels. Elitism nonpareil. We're lucky BobHunt
lives in SC ;-).

TTom

 TTom's right, 'Saw.   You're more than welcome aboard the Wahoos Bandwagon
 ... just so long as Waugaman and his Whammy don't sneak a ride with you.
 
 But, for Elitism and All-Around Upper Crustiness, the Wahoo fans have few
 competitors.   Maybe Princeton, Hahvahd, and Yale but that's about it.
 
 Virginia is the epitome of a "state-private" school.    The school rakes
 in beaucoup public funds but, at the same time, has one of the largest
 private endowments of any school in the country.    Thus, the student body
 is filled with a lot of young, fresh, free-thinking students who study
 English and music and chemical engineering *AND* a lot of loud, snobbish,
 preppie boors who hope Daddy's Amex card can get them through pre-law.
 
 I had a *LOT* of fun there.   If we weren't laughing at the prepheads from
 a distance, then we were dressing like them for kicks and crashing their
 parties to laugh near them until they caught us and tossed us.
 
 When I went there, it had a serious "party school" reputation.    It's
 been toned down somewhat by now but some of those weekend bashes back then
 were huge.   Thousands of people.   Booze and beer flowed like rivers and
 other substances were in abundance, too.   We used to have to hose down
 our frat house after each one.
 
 You ain't partied until you've played "Grainball" in Mad Bowl on Rugby
 Road in Charlottesville on a spring weekend afternoon.   Final score had
 nothing to do with runs, hits or errors ... the winning team had the most
 players passed out.
 
 Bob Hunt

 Well, Clemson sure popped NC State's bubble, didn't they ???   Paws came
 out in their rarely ever seen purple jerseys and smoked the Pack.   The
 one play that's getting all the highlight footage is a Clemson fake field
 goal attempt that quickly turned into a real play aimed at scoring a
 touchdown.   Paws originally lined up to kick it but then quickly shifted
 into a "regular" formation and busted it over before the Pack could catch
 on.
 
 Duke beat Maryland in a tasty little upset.   Georgia Tech kicked the
 ever-living crapola outta the Baby Tar Heels.  And the Wahoos stomped all
 over helpless Wake Forest.
 
 Little by little, the Hoos have made some nice little strides this year. 
 They are now at 5-2-1 and could very well win their final three games
 against NC State, Va Tech and Div 1-AA VMI.    The State game is in
 Raleigh and it'll be tough but Virginia has had its way with the Pack for
 the past couple of season.   The blood game with the Hokies is in C'ville
 so hopefully that'll help and the VMI game should be a walkover.    
 
 6-4-1 should be a lock, 7-3-1 is very do-able and an 8-2-1 final record
 would be very nice indeed and should get some bowl attention.   Their
 losses are in conference to Maryland and Ga Tech and they tied Clemson in
 Clemson.    Those three games put them out of the conference picture as
 Clemson all but locked it up with their romp over State.
 
 Oh, and Florida State survived a wet scare against LSU in Baton Rouge. 
 They're still sitting on top of the entire heap although ESPN's Beano Cook
 thinks the Washington Huskies are Numero Uno.
 
 Bob Hunt

I wasn't even aware that Clemson ever wore purple.  I saw the highlights
and it sure didn't LOOK like Clemson.

I've always seen them in white when they aren't wearing orange....


'Saw

 Firsted time Clemson has worn purple jerseys since 1939.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Hawk,
    I watched most of the 2nd half of the FSU game. In the most dismal
    conditions, they never panicked, and simply took over the game from
    an overmatched, game LSU team. FSU showed me something.
    If they can overcome some injuries suffered in this game, they'll be
    awfully tough to beat.
    
    MikeL
    

> Firsted time Clemson has worn purple jerseys since 1939.

Wow, bet those jersies musta smelled 8^)


Seriously, do you know why they waited 52 years to wear them again?
Were they even the Tigers back then?  I know that the Tiger Paw thing
was a big marketing gimmick, so I doubted that they had that in 1939.


This really has aroused my curiousity.....


'Saw

    Prediction:	If Carolina fails to at least reach the .500 mark this
    		year (a distinct possibility) look for Mack Brown to
    		start updating his resume.  He *might* be given another
    		year, but the patience is starting to wear thin amongst
    		the fat-cat alum's.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    FSU has been a little less-than-impressive the past 2 weeks prior to
    the LSU game.  After their awesome displays against Michigan and
    Syracuse, they only beat Virginia Tech by 13 and didn't destroy I-AA
    Middle Tennessee State like they should've.  But despite the closeness
    of their game against a subpar LSU team they still belong at the top
    spot.  They're on the road, at night, playing in a snakepit.  And once
    LSU got the quick lead the Tigers played with confidence all night
    believing they could win.  And like Lee Corso said after the game,
    rain is a great equalizer (Just ask Illinois).  But the Noles still
    win by 11.  Weldon showed great courage by returning and leading his team 
    back after hurting his knee.  
    
    
    Joe

� Seriously, do you know why they waited 52 years to wear them again?
� Were they even the Tigers back then?  I know that the Tiger Paw thing
� was a big marketing gimmick, so I doubted that they had that in 1939.
 
 I don't know why they haven't worn them since 1939.   The *official*
 school colors are in fact orange and purple but the football team's
 emphasis has been heavy on the orange for a long, long time.   I guess
 this was a Notre Dame kinda thing ... remember when Dan Devine had the
 Irish come out to play USC wearing green jerseys one time ???    Hatfield
 musta felt the team needed a big shakeup since they had had a loss and a
 tie in their previous two games.   Looks like it worked.
 
 The Clemson hoops team does wear purple jerseys for their road games.
 
 And, yes, they've been the "Tigers" for a very long time, too.   The
 Clemson football program is over a hundred years old, I believe.    Didn't
 the legendary John Heisman coach them for a while ???
 
 I don't know when the Tiger Paw logo was drawn up but it has been a
 colossal marketing success.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.  Northwestern upset Illinois on Saturday while wearing both purple
 jerseys *and* purple pants.   That, too, had rarely ever been seen before
 and they beat the Illini, a 20 point favorite, with them.

Bob, 

Thanks for the info.

It's really funny, I was sitting here thinking that the football team
hasn't worn purple in over 50 years.  I wonder if all those years
they had purple jersies made up but never used, or if they went out
special to have them made this week 8^)


'Saw

    John Heisman coached Georgia Tech (including their 222-0 win over
    Cumberland) but I don't know if he ever coached Clemson.  Frank Howard
    was probably the most noted coach Clemson ever had.
    
    John

> I don't know when the Tiger Paw logo was drawn up but it has been a
> colossal marketing success.
    
    It was one year after Ohio University went to the paw logo (I think
    somewhere in the mid 70's).  An OU alum who became a grad assistant at
    Clemson sold the Tiger powers that be on the idea and the rest is
    sordid history.
    
    	--dan'l
    

>    It was one year after Ohio University went to the paw logo (I think
>    somewhere in the mid 70's).  An OU alum who became a grad assistant at
>    Clemson sold the Tiger powers that be on the idea and the rest is
>    sordid history.
    
  When I went to OU, they had the paw logo for all 4 years. That was 1967-1971.
  I have no idea when OU adopted the paw but I always liked it. 

		Keith    

    	Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!  What a suck game! State couldn't move the ball
    all game long. The defense let them down, the offense let them down,
    the COACHES let everybody down!  Clemson just played better football
    this week.

    	Can't believe the State coaches let Clemson use the same pass play
    6 straight times to move the ball. What were they thinking?

    	As for the Purple jerseys...All IPTAY(I Plow Taters All Day)members
    were sent a questionnaire...asking...would they like to see purple added
    to the colors of Clemson and also would they like night games.

    	Well, the Purple won and the Clemson faithful can't drive at night
    so no mo night games unless T.V($$$) rules come into play.

    	Had a great time at the Bar-B-Q Friday night! The pack has some
    great and very friendly fans. Saturday was a great day for
    football..except the Pack didn't show up...still had a great time
    tailgate'n it!

    	Have to hope for the best now...a Clemson loss and a pack over Va
    win.

    B.A.

    
    O.K. Bob,
    
    	Cut us some slack tomorrow..we're do for a win over the Yahoo's!
    
    	But *If* I were a betting man, I'd take the Cavs and 7.
    
    	UNC with the upset over the tiggers!
    
    	Love to see Furman over Tech, but Tech will prevail.
    
    B.A.
    

 No way, B.A.    Do it, Hoos.   Smack the Pack.
 
 Bob Hunt

 Virginia 42, North Carolina State 10
 
 'Saw, you picked the right team and the right time for a bandwagon ride. 
 The Wahoos are playing the best football of any team in the conference
 right now.  Matt Blundin is a legitimate ACC Player Of The Year candidate. 
 
 The Pack was completely helpless as the Hoos just stomped all over them in
 miserable playing conditions in Raleigh in front of an NC State Homecoming
 crowd.  Most of whom headed for the post-game parties at halftime.
 
 The Peach and Gator Bowls are said to be interested in the Hoos.  They're
 up to No. 21 in the AP poll this week.   Unbeaten in the their lasted 7
 games with a week off before the hated Va Tech Hokies invade C'ville.  
 Light year's difference between this year and last ... Lasted year's team
 crashed with a sickening thud ... this one is surging.
 
 Bob Hunt

> Virginia 42, North Carolina State 10
 
> 'Saw, you picked the right team and the right time for a bandwagon ride. 
> The Wahoos are playing the best football of any team in the conference
> right now.  Matt Blundin is a legitimate ACC Player Of The Year candidate. 


I couldn't be happier.  And with Clemson's defeat of UNC, I was a
wonderful weekend at that.

Go Wahoos!


8^)

    
    I think this year's Virginia squad is better than last year's, to
    tell you the truth.  Sure, he doesn't get the pub that Shawn Moore
    did, but this Blundin kid's for real too!
                                
    Go 'Hoos!  Whatta team!  Crush Tech, crush!
    
    glenn
    

 �   Go 'Hoos!  Whatta team!  Crush Tech, crush!
 
 Oh, no, Glenn, did you have to ???   Your death smooch has been absolutely
 lethal on ACC teams this year.  We're doomed.  :-) :-) :-)
 
 But, truth be known, I actually agree with you ... this year's Hoos are
 playing better football than lasted year's squad.   Matt Blundin is a
 career backup quarterback who also played four years of hoops.   Now, he's
 a fifth-year senior and he's playing great ball.   Larry Holmes is a
 game-breaking receiver, Terry Kirby, Nikki Fisher, and Gary Steele are a
 powerful running game and the defense has stiffened considerably.
 
 If Welsh hadn't blown the Georgia Tech game, they'd be looking at an even
 higher ranking and a possible 2nd place finish in the conference.
 
 This team has *earned* respect.   This is not the same team that looked
 pathetic against Maryland in the season opener.   They're on a roll now.
 
 Bob Hunt

Good show by the Hoos.

State should quit scheduling them. I guess Sheridan will never beat them.
And at least let Virginia come to town and beat em early and get it out
of the way. Don't wait for homecoming.

Or how about wait until after the bowl bids. Imagine if they had gone out
last week before this game. Some people had the Pack in the Gator Bowl
and Virginia in some third rate event, if at all.

> If Welsh hadn't blown the Georgia Tech game, they'd be looking at an even
> higher ranking and a possible 2nd place finish in the conference.

Even with this blunder, I think Welsh should get coach of the year for
turning the Hoos around from a dreadful start to what they've done. And
while I'm at it, I might even give Blundin the MVP. 

TTom

    Yo, Bob -
    Given that you hate North Carolina and Clemson about as much as I hate
    Boston College and Connecticut, who do you cheer for when they square
    off?  Or do you do what I do and pray for a bomb to hit whatever venue
    they are playing in?
    
    John
    
    PS - in the NCAA women's soccer tournament, we have the following
    matchups:  Connecticut at Virginia, North Carolina State at North
    Carolina, Hartford at Wisconsin and Stanford at Colorado College

Yeah, I'd be interested in that too, John.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Clemson so it's a no brainer for
me: Yes, very happy that Clemson won in absolutely dismal conditions at
Chapel Hill. I'm especially glad that it was close for a while with No
Carolina even missing out on a couple of chances to score. Mack Brown did
not disappoint and used this is in his coulda-woulda explanation of
another defeat after 4 years of national recruiting success.

TTom

    Why does it seem like everyone hates Clemson?  I kind of get the
    impression that they're kind of like BYU in the WAC - hated by everyone
    else in the conference.  
    
>    PS - in the NCAA women's soccer tournament, we have the following
>    matchups:  Connecticut at Virginia, North Carolina State at North
>    Carolina, Hartford at Wisconsin and Stanford at Colorado College
    
    John, so it's down to the final 8 teams I assume?  Not that I'm a big
    fan of women's college soccer, but I know Colorado College has reached
    the final 4 the past few years but always seem to lose to North
    Carolina.  Maybe they can finally take it all.
    
    
    Joe

    It is down to the final 8 teams.  I can relate to losing to North
    Carolina in women's soccer because everyone seems to do that.  :-(
    
    John

    re last
    In fact, the nucleus of the USA womens team is from North Carolina. Th
    coach is the ex-UNC coach, and many of the players have come through
    the system. The USA women are one of the co-favorites (with Sweden,
    Brazil & Germany) to win the womens' World Cup in China later this
    month.
    
    Tom

I don't dislike Clemson.  I was glad they beat UNC.....

 I used to *really* dislike Clemson's football team when they had that 29-0
 record against my Wahoos.   And throw in their habitual NCAA scandals and
 probations and outlaw image and they were easy to hate.
 
 But Ken Hatfield has them on the straight and narrow now plus the Hoos
 have their first-ever win and a Death Valley tie against them and so the
 Paws a little less detestable.   A little ...
 
 It wouldn't have broken my heart if *both* team busses had flat tires on
 the way to the game.   And, if it ended in a 0-0 tie, that would have been
 fine, too.
 
 Remember the age-old rule, though, whenever you're in doubt ... A good
 Wahoo's two favorite teams are Virginia and whomever is playing against
 Carolina.
 
 Bob Hunt

    > coach is the ex-UNC coach
    
    Small nit.  Anson Dorrance is *still* coach of the UNC women's soccer
    team.  He's simply doing double-duty and coaching *both* the Lady Tar 
    Heels and the World Cup.  Unfortunately there's now a conflict and he
    (along with several UNC players) will be unable to participate in the
    NCAA Tournament.  Even with this handicap, Carolina very well may be
    favored to win the whole thing.
    
    The women's soccer program that Dorrance has built at Chapel Hill
    compares favorably with virtually any dynasty in college sport.  Truly
    an amazing record ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Mr.Hunt,
    
    	You failed to mention that the Yahoos put out the *second* string
    quaterback! Then the pack had to go with a true fresman! Needless to
    say, it really wouldn't have matterd. The yahoo's put on a great show!
    
    	They are much better than their ranking indicates.
    
    	In other conference games...FURMAN SHOULD HAVE BEAT TECH!!!!! They
    had them beat! But that same old kicker that failed to beat Clemson,
    but beat Va did it again.
    
    	Clemson rolled over the tar-babies...not even a game.
    
    	Wake was the surprise of the day...Creaming Duke!
    
    Next time Bob, I'm going to ask that the Yahoos cream the Pack, cause I
    asked for a little help this time and didn't get any! :*)
    
    B.A.
    

Clemson wins the ACC title with a win over Maryland.   

You really can't get too upset over it because they did win all the games 
they had to win but the Tigers really reaped the benefits this year of an 
incredible home schedule.   They played Georgia Tech, Virginia, NC State, 
Wake Forest, and Maryland all at home in Death Valley.   They played 
North Carolina on the road and Duke they see in a neutral site ... Tokyo.

The amazing Wahoos picked up another notch in the Top 25 moving up to the 
No. 21 slot.   And they had the week off !!!   No doubt they didn't deserve 
this morally bankrupt honor.   Civilization is doomed.

The bowl picture looks like this ...

	Clemson in the Citrus versus California
	NC State in the Peach versus East Carolina
	Georgia Tech in the Aloha versus Stanford
	Virginia in the Gator versus Oklahoma (probably)

	North Carolina is on the bubble for the Independence Bowl against 
	Georgia.   They must beat Duke and then hope Arkansas loses it last 
        game.

Bob Hunt

    re .290:
    
    >	Clemson wins the ACC title with a win over Maryland.   

    >	You really can't get too upset over it...
    
    ...because a certain raving individual who would have put "CLEMSON
    TIGERS #1!  CLEMSON TIGERS #1!" in 23,000 different notes in here is no
    longer with DEC.   :-)
    
    
    py

    .291�              -< Where's RAVING::SMITH when you don't need him? >-
    
    	Funny you should mention good ole Rich...I ran into him this
    weekend. He said to tell everyone, especially Chris and Bob, GO TIGERS!
    
    	He said that he really misses the fun he had in the notes with all
    you guys. Rich is doing fine in the real world. :*)
    
    Now, as for the PACK.. What a bowl game! East Caorlina in Ga!!! This is
    going to be a great trip! and a great game!
    
    B.A.
    

Well, I don't give a dang who cares about it but Ah am a_goin' to "strut my 
chest", if'n ya'll don't mind ...

Way to go, Hoos.  Way to go.  Beat dem damn Hokies and finish up the 
regular season with a very very nice 8-2-1 record, 4-2-1 in the ACC.   
Started the season with a 1-2 record and things were lookin' bleaker than 
bleak.   Eight games later and they ain't lost since.

38-0 over the hated turkeys from Blacksburg.   Matt Blundin just might have 
sewn up the ACC POY with another superb day as he broke the NCAA record for 
most consecutive pass attempts without an interception.   Nikki Fisher 
gained over 100 yards rushing for the day and the Hoos even ran back the 
2nd half kickoff, the only kickoff Va Tech had.

Believe it or not, at 4-2-1, they actually finish 4th in the conference 
behind champ Clemson at 5-0-1 (soon to be 6-0-1 against Duke in Tokyo) and 
Ga Tech and NC State with 5-2 records.   The Maryland loss to open the 
season kept them from title contention but I proudly contend that no team 
in the conference is playing better football right now than Virginia.  
Kickin butt and takin names ...

Do it, Hoos ...   Bring on Oklahoma in the Gator.   I want some Sooner butt.  
What an incredible contrast to lasted year.  Mirror image.  This team is 
playing much better than lasted year's ill-fated squad.

Hope you're enjoying the ride, 'Saw, it's a good one.  My only regret is 
not being there to seem them beat the Hokies.   I would have loved yet 
another chance to laugh in hysterics at their ridiculous "Hightie Tighties" 
marching band.

Bob Hunt

>Hope you're enjoying the ride, 'Saw, it's a good one.  My only regret is 
>not being there to seem them beat the Hokies.   I would have loved yet 
>another chance to laugh in hysterics at their ridiculous "Hightie Tighties" 
>marching band.

YES, you are RIGHT sir.

Sure, I saw that they're in that Bowl, and I was pleased.  I keep flippin
through my channels on Saturdays, hoping to find them, but alas, no
such luck....8^(  The bested I can do is seeing scores flash up
on the other games they show up here.....


Go Hoos!!!!!


'Saw

    
> Do it, Hoos ...   Bring on Oklahoma in the Gator.   I want some Sooner butt.  
> What an incredible contrast to lasted year.  Mirror image.  This team is 
> playing much better than lasted year's ill-fated squad.
  
    Is Oklahoma locked into the Gator, win or lose against Nebraska?
    I hope not.  Earlier I saw that they might be headed to the 
    Blockbuster for a traditional pairing with 'Bama, with the Huskers 
    dropping down to the Gator if they lose this Friday.
    
    If the Huskers beat the Sooners, I predict that Virginia stomps
    the Sooners bad to make Oklahoma's season a complete and total 
    humiliation, culminating in Coach Gary Gibbs' firing.  The Sooners 
    have a fine Big Four bowl record; unfortunately, they haven't fared 
    as well in the non-primetime games...
    
    glenn
    

Glenn, today's paper still has the Hoos' Gator opponent as the Big 8's 3rd 
place team ... Oklahoma looks dialed into that slot for now but it could 
change, I believe, if the Sooners beat the Huskers.

Either one, I don't care ... The Hoos are playing great ball.

Bob Hunt

    
    	If NU wins:  NU to the Orange
    		     CU to the Blockbuster
    		     OU to the Gator
    
    	If OU wins:  CU to the Orange
    		     OU to the Blockbuster
    		     NU to the Gator
    
    
     	I think..... :^)
    
    	Claybone

 Matt Blundin -- 1991 ACC Player Of The Year.
 
 In a landslide vote, Wahoos quarterback Matt Blundin was selected as the
 ACC's top player this year.  Blundin broke Illinois' Jack Trudeau's season
 record for most passes without an interception as he threw over 220 passes
 without a pick.  Not one pass picked off all year long.
 
 Blundin sat out two early season games with an infected elbow but came
 back to lead Virginia to an 8-game unbeaten string and a berth in the
 Gator Bowl.
 
 Shawn Jones of Ga Tech was 2nd, Terry Kirby of Virginia was 3rd and two
 Clemson players were 4th and 5th.
 
 Also, Wahoo tackle Ray Roberts was named to the First Team All-American
 squad by AP, I believe.
 
 If Blundin is drafted by the NFL and makes a team, that will be four
 Virginia quarterbacks on NFL rosters ... along with Don Majkowski in Green
 Bay, Shawn Moore in Denver, and Scott Secules in Miami, last I knew.
 
 Add Boomer Esiason, Neil O'Donnell, and Erik Kramer and the ACC itself is
 nicely represented among NFL signal callers.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
> If Blundin is drafted by the NFL and makes a team, that will be four
> Virginia quarterbacks on NFL rosters ... along with Don Majkowski in Green
> Bay, Shawn Moore in Denver, and Scott Secules in Miami, last I knew.
> 
> Add Boomer Esiason, Neil O'Donnell, and Erik Kramer and the ACC itself is
> nicely represented among NFL signal callers.
  
    Don't forget *three* additional Maryland quarterbacks (as well
    as Boomer and O'Donnell) in Stan Gelbaugh, Scott Zolak, and Frank
    Reich, for a total of five-- that's got to be some kind of record
    for simultaneously active QB alumni.  Joe Krivac is/was a great
    offensive/QB coach.  Unfortunately he has the motivational inclination
    of a potato.
    
    glenn
    

Clemson wrapped things up with a win over Duke in Tokyo while Ga Tech lost 
to UGA, their hated in-state rivals from Athens.

George Welsh was voted the ACC Coach Of The Year.   Although I *still* 
fault him for poor game coaching in the final minutes against Ga Tech, he 
did indeed bring the team roaring back from a 1-2 start and had them 
playing better football than anyone else in the conference as the season 
wound down.

What a marked contrast to lasted year when the team peaked early and 
then flamed badly ... this year, they struggled in September and then 
turned on the jets in October and November.   They should give Oklahoma all 
they can handle in the Gator Bowl in Jacksonville.

Bob Hunt

Go 'hoos!

    Aloha Bowl
    
    Georgia Tech 18  Stanford 17
    
    Surprised by this outcome. Caught glimpses of this one. Seems like
    every time I paid attention, Stanford was having a critical
    third down conversion for a first down brought back for some
    infraction. What happened, did Ga. Tech bring da Clemson refs?
    Cardinal must be stunned today. I thought for sure they would win.
    Oh well, 0-2 in the bowl contest.
    
    MikeL
    
    

>>        <<< Note 155.303 by CTHQ2::LEARY "busted flat in baton rouge" >>>

>>    Georgia Tech 18  Stanford 17
    
>>    infraction. What happened, did Ga. Tech bring da Clemson refs?
    
Ga. Tech had a big punt return late in the game (about 3 or 4 minutes
left) that set up Tech's go-ahead score.  Then they went for two and
made it.  Also, Tommy Vardell missed most of the second half with a
bad shoulder.  The announcers (for what it's worth) seemed to think
that with Vardell in there the outcome would have been different.
They're probably right, as Vardell enhances Stanford's ball control
game.  He still finished with more than 100 yards.

I watched most of the second half, and it was pretty much a defensive
struggle, with a few turnovers thrown in for good measure.  Tech
did fumble at the goal line (Stanford recovered) on what would have
been the go ahead touchdown.

Jerry

    The announcers and ESPN's SportsCenter kept emphasizing that this may
    be Bobby Ross's last season at GT.  Why?  Are they unhappy with the
    season he put in this year?  Is Ross moving on to greener
    pastures...what could be greener than winning a national championship? 
    Is he retiring?
    
    	--dan'l

    Ross is a leading candidate to move onto one of the vacant NFL jobs. 
    Basically, Ross doesn't like doing a lot of the things college coaches
    have to do - recruit, public speaking, kissing up to alumni.
    
    John

    
    BTW,
    
    	The Clemson refs are in Orlando! :*)
    
    Tech pulled off a great game!
    
    B.A.
    

       Hottest rumor is Ross going to San Diego. 
                                                  Denny

    Ninj,
    Wait a sec. Holtz never kissed up to me!  8^)
    Wait'll I become a millionaire, won't he be sorry!
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
    	Bob,
    
    	Was the Sooners THAT good or was Va having a really Bad,Bad, night?
    
    	They cost me some $$$$...to say the least!
    
    ACC...1-1 so far.
    
    B.A.

                                       
    > Was the Sooners THAT good or was Va having a really Bad,Bad, night?
      
    The Sooners may indeed be *that* good.  With the prospect of losing
    his job hanging over his head, Gary Gibbs finally decided to unleash
    Cale Gundy's passing talent, the same untapped talent that has had 
    Sooner fans wondering why a passing-style QB was starting but wasn't 
    being utilized in boring, ineffectual offensive displays (and losses) 
    against Texas, Colorado, and Nebraska the past two years.  I think
    Gundy only threw six incompletions last night (25-31?, 325+ yards), 
    and four of those were on bombs.  Another pass in the third quarter 
    was dropped, and the only poorly thrown ball I saw all night came on 
    Gundy's first attempt.  I believe Gundy broke the Big-8 bowl game 
    passing record, not to mention OU's all-time single-game record.  
                    
    Geez, George Welsh isn't a really nice guy when he's down, is he
    (can't say that I blame him, though)?
    
    glenn
    

    
    	The Sooners were really impressive!  That Q/B is good!  Is he a
    Frosh?
    
    B.A.
    

>                -< Hey 'Saw, time to find another bandwagon... >-


I was reading last night (King's "Needful Things") but I had ESPN
on with the volume down low.  I caught the Virginia score and thought
"There's Always Nexted Year"....


Nope, it's rare that I jump on a Bandwagon, but even more rare that
I jump off once I've embarked....


'Saw

    

    Hey Slash, look who's talking!!  8^)
    
    MikeL
    
    

�< Note 155.314 by CAMONE::WAY "Wake up Mamma, turn your lamp down low" >



�Nope, it's rare that I jump on a Bandwagon, but even more rare that
�I jump off once I've embarked....


	So, 'Saw, How are the Whalers doing thised year ?

:-)

Chap

>
>	So, 'Saw, How are the Whalers doing thised year ?

Absolutely putrid.

There was an excellent article in yesterday's Hartford Courant about
an NHL talent index.  Basically everyone that the Whalers traded away
is rated higher than the boobs they got.

Cullen is useless.  The 4 Million Dollar man that gave EJ his biggest
woodie is playing like sh_t.  Zalapsky is like in Neverland, and
I haven't figured out WHAT Holik is trying to accomplish.

Hell, the only one on the team who's doing ANYTHING is Rob Brown, and
he still needs a haircut....

Attendance is down, interest is down, and Quebec is catchin' up....



'Saw

 Ouch.   I turned the game on shortly after halftime and pretty quickly
 snapped it off with the score at 48-7.  What was the final ???
 
 Hoos musta looked pretty pathetic.   Hey, bad games happen.   Maybe it was
 the month-long layoff.   Probably a lot of it was just the Sooners.
 
 Funny aside:   Yesterday, the HUNTcluster made the l-o-n-g post-holiday
 trip from Jersey back home to Charlotte.   We stopped in Charlottesville
 (*great* halfway point on this trip, by the way) for a bite to eat and a
 quick ride around the hallowed grounds.
 
 Stopped the car nexted to an empty Scott Stadium and made the MicroHUNTs
 get out and bow down and kiss the sacred earth.   Did the same thing over
 by University Hall (the "pregnant clam") and also made them pray-chant
 "God Bless Mr Jefferson" as we passed by the Rotunda and The Lawn.
 
 They drew the line at going into the old frat house, though.  Said it
 looked too dirty and all "icky".   Had to agree with 'em.  Don't know how
 I ever lived there for all those years.   I must be getting old.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
     > Stopped the car nexted to an empty Scott Stadium and made the MicroHUNTs
     > get out and bow down and kiss the sacred earth.
       
    Has the friendly social services worker been by your house yet today,
    Bob?  This kind of thing constitutes child abuse in at least 49
    of 50 states, Bob...  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

 � This kind of thing constitutes child abuse in at least 49 of 50 states,
 
 When it comes time for Daddy to fork over the bucks for tuition, we'll see
 just how much "abuse" they're willing to absorb.  :-) :-) :-)
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.   I believe the best post-homage quote came from MicroHUNT III who in
 her best giggly 3-year-old with the Christmas chicken pox voice said ...
 "Oh, Daddy, you make us do the silliest things !!!"

    Cale Gundy said all week long that he was gonna pass the ball 
    over thirty times in the game, well Virginia's coach must be 
    thinking, geez I wish I had believed him.  Oh am I glad that
    Air Force beat Mississippi State last night, MSU fans must of
    had 20,000 cowbells there, I don't understand that one, there nick
    name is the bulldog's.
    
    						Dan
    
                                               

    
    Hunt,
    
    	What is UVa's record in bowl games?  Just curious...
    
    	I think the poor performance was due to the fack that UVa just had
    finished exams! :*)  go figure...
    
    B.A.

 Virginia is now 2-3 lifetime in post-season bowl games, I believe.
 
 1983	Virginia over Purdue in Peach Bowl
 1986	Virginia over Brigham Young in Holiday Bowl
 1989	Illinois over Virginia in Citrus Bowl
 1990	Tennessee over Virginia in Sugar Bowl
 1991	Oklahoma over Virginia in Gator Bowl
 
 Have to reverse this losing trend.   Sure seemed like Welsh had the touch
 in their firsted two bowls but times sure have changed.   Might also be
 the competition ...
 
 With three straight Top 25 teams, I hope it's a safe statement to say that
 the program is in good shape.   Now it's time to take that nexted leap ...
 that of perpetual Top Ten inhabitant.   That'll be a tough chore.
 
 Bob Hunt

 Dan,

	One of the announcers said the story goes, that way back when the
 rivalry with Ole Miss was so dominated by Ole Miss that duuring one year
 a cow crossed the field at half time and So Miss finally won a game.
 Ever since then they've used the cowbells as a good luck charm....

 mike

    
    	All I can say is that at least the Pack showed up...they may have
    left a little early, but they still made it a ballgame...unlike the
    Tiggers or the Yahoos.
    
    	GO ECU!!! :*0
    
    	The Tiggers got the tar beat out of them! The Golden Bears looked
    Golden!  The Tiggers had two ejections...The Tiggers can't seem the win
    without the Clemson Mafia! aka,Refs!
    
    ACC- 1-3 this year...booo...
    
    B.A.
    

    B.A,
    The Clemsuck refs helped Ga. Tech beat Stanford and were unavailable
    fo' the Citrus 
    
    HTH.
    
    MikeL
    P.S. What a comeback by ECU!
    

Bill Lewis of East Carolina and the #9 Pirates has taken the job as head
coach at Georgia Tech, replacing Bobby Ross who's gone to the NFL's San
Diego Chargers.

Lewis had previously been the defensive backs coach at Tech during
1971-73.

This will be his 3rd head coaching job. He was at Wyoming 3 years before
coming to ECU.

TTom

 Okay, now here's something *very* different.  You definitely don't run
 across this situation in college football every day ...
 
 NC State has a nose guard on the team (forget his name) who is a native of
 American Samoa.   American Samoa, as some may know, is a small Pacific
 island a coupla thousand miles southwest of Hawaii.   It's an American
 "protectorate" and it has turned out a lot of gifted football players. 
 Mosi Tatupu, Frank Manumaluega, to name just a few.
 
 Seems as though this Wolfpack nose guard is royalty in American Samoa. 
 There is a civilian government on the island but there are also 4 separate
 little kingdoms on the island whose rulers are heavily involved in local
 affairs.   This kid's grandfather was the ruling Matai (king) of one of
 the 4 kingdoms and had hand-picked this particular grandson as his direct
 successor upon his death.
 
 A month or so ago, the young lad returned to American Samoa to discuss his
 future with his ailing grandfather.   After much discussion, he chose to
 remain at NC State and finish his education and then pursue a career in
 the NFL or in law enforcement.  His grandfather understood and approved
 his decision.  {Aside: No one else from this family has ever graduated
 college and that played a big part in the grandfather's approval.}
 
 The grandfather died two weeks ago.   One of the other descendents
 (brother?) will assume the Matai for now but the door is to remain open
 should the Wolfpack player decide at some future date that he'd like to be
 the king instead of a pro football player or a cop.
 
 Is that wild or what ???   Pack coach Dick Sheridan said he couldn't ever
 remember anyone dealing with a situation like this before.   Makes it
 tough to pencil in a depth chart, don'tcha think ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    re-1,
    
    	He made the right decison! LAW!!!
    
    B.A.

NC State's 1992 Football Schedule

	Aug 29	Kickoff Classic vs Iowa, East Rutherford, 9 pm

	Sep  5	vs Appalachian St, 7 pm
	Sep 12	at Maryland, 12:10 pm
	Sep 19	vs Florida St, 12:10 pm
	Sep 26	at No Carolina, 1:30 pm

	Oct  3	at Georgia Tech, 12:10 pm
	Oct 10	vs Texas Tech, 1:00 pm
	Oct 17	at Virginia Tech, 1:00 pm
	Oct 24	vs Clemson, 1:00 pm

	Nov  7	at Virginia, 12:10 pm
	Nov 14	vs Duke, 12:10
	Nov 21	vs Wake Forest, 1:00 pm

TTom

    NC State and Iowa?  Seems like the Kickoff Classic is losing its
    luster.
    
    Is FSU officially a member of the ACC this upcoming season?
    
    
    Joe

I don't know how State ended up in the Kickoff Classic. 

I can remember a very eventful game about 4 or so years ago when Iowa
played Tennessee. Iowa was marching down the field and got to about the
5. Hayden Fry(e) called a time out and *SUBSTITUTED QUARTERBACKS*. First
play by the new guy was a TD, 90+ yard interception by the Vols.

Florida State is officially within the ACC now.

TTom

    .332�Florida State is officially within the ACC now.
    
    	Yep and I'll be there as well when the tiggers go to Packland!
    
    B.A.

    Showing me ACC foosball ignorance here,
    Is FSU the odds-on-fav to smack all the other ACC's upside the haid
    and romp to the conference crown?
    
    MikeL
    Who's looking forward to ND's home and home with FSU in '93 and '94.
    

In a word, yes. I don't know if the play at Clemson this year but that
would be the only game that there would be any expectation of a contest.
Now that's not to say that they might not get beat but I'd say the
Seminoles would be better than even money against the rest of the
conference to win the title and enter the MegaBucks Bowl Sweepstakes.

TTom

> In a word, yes. I don't know if the play at Clemson this year but that
> would be the only game that there would be any expectation of a contest.
> Now that's not to say that they might not get beat but I'd say the
> Seminoles would be better than even money against the rest of the
> conference to win the title and enter the MegaBucks Bowl Sweepstakes.

    That isn't good news for the rest of the ACC when you consider the fact 
    that FSU is getting hit fairly hard by graduation.  The rest of the ACC
    was just starting to catch up to Clemson on the gridiron in recent
    years.
    
    Joe

    Graduation or No Eligibility Left?
    
    MikeL
    

Flordia State, there MikeL, not Clemson.

Actually last year was sort of a rebuilding year for FSU. They had their
backfield and that was about it. At one time or another I think they were
starting 7 freshmen and/or sophomores on defense.

But with FSU, it's a factory and any rebuilding is really restocking,
more and more high school All-Ams.

And no, it aint' great for the rest of the league in the short term. One
can only hope that FSU brings the overall talent level up, if only so you
can play against the Seminoles.

TTom

    Ah meant FSU TTom 8^)
    
    Actually I think you hit nail on the haid in your first reply. With the
    ACC gittin a representative in the Great #1 Bakeoff, A lot of down-home
    talent jest might stay there and rise to the level of FSU in time.
    As long as Clemson and UNC stay, ahem, caged and heeled ,sic, in
    foosball. 
    
    MikeL
    

    
    	I disagree...Fla.St. may have the upper hand in the
    conference, but teams like UNC,State and Uva along with Clemsuck will
    give the injuns all they cain handle.
    
    	I even go as far as saying that Fla.St. will lose (2) games in the
    conference!
    
    B.A. Go Pack!
    

> Actually last year was sort of a rebuilding year for FSU. They had their
> backfield and that was about it. At one time or another I think they were
> starting 7 freshmen and/or sophomores on defense.

    I wouldn't call last year a rebuilding year for the Noles - they
    brought back something like 17 starters, and about 95% of the preseason
    polls and publications had them as their #1 team.
    
    But I'll agree that with them being a factory, they shouldn't suffer
    a huge dropoff this season.
    
    BTW, last year was supposed to be somewhat of a rebuilding year for the
    Canes.
    
    
    Joe

    RE: back a few
    FSU plays at Clemson early in the season.
    
    Outside the ACC the Noles play at Florida and at Miami.
    
    
    Joe

    Pretty impressive Joe,
    Must need SOME toughies by Bowl-time
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    

    Small nit: FSU gets the Gators at home this coming season.
    
    Joe

 The ACC's pre-season football poll, as voted by the conference writers and
 broadcasters, is out ...
 
 	1. Florida State
 	2. Clemson
 	3. Virginia
 	4. North Carolina State
 	5. Georgia Tech
 	6. North Carolina
 	7. Maryland
 	8. Duke
 	9. Wake Forest
 
 Florida State is an overwhelming favorite as expected.   But they do play
 Clemson, Virginia, NC State, and Ga Tech all on the road.   Of course,
 they've shown an amazing ability to win tough games on the road over the
 years so this might not faze them ...
 
 Wake Forest is helpless.
 
 Bob Hunt

> 	6. North Carolina

Does this mean that we're supposed to wait another year on the Mack Brown
Development Program? What, it's only been 5 years now, better give him
some time to get his own players in, his own program, etc.

What happened to the back-to-back-to-back top 10 recruiting classes.

TTom

 The Sporting News recently said that *no* major college football team in
 the entire US of A will play an easier schedule of opponents this year
 than Mack Brown's North Carolina Tar Heels.
 
 In addition to the eight conference games, North Carolina plays Furman,
 Army, and Navy ... all at home in Kenan Stadium.    Furman is a very good
 Div I-AA team.  Army won all of four games last year including two against
 Colgate and Akron.   Navy won one game last year ... against Army.
 
 In 1993, the Heels play Ohio, Texas-El Paso, and Tulane.   In 1994, it's
 Texas Christian, Tulane, and Southern Methodist.   In 1995, they play
 Syracuse, Louisville, and Ohio.   However, they may replace Syracuse with
 Chapel Hill High School if they can swing a rules change or two.  :-)
 
 Dean has taught Mack well.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    Bob, you'll get the Clemson people all riled if you make fun of Furman.

Hey, at least they aren't  playing Bob Jones University!  8^)

 I ain't making fun of the Purple Paladins of Furman.   They are a very
 good Div I-AA football team.   Lasted year, they were ranked No. 20 in the
 final Div I-AA poll and I believe they won the Div I-AA national title
 playoffs a few seasons ago.
 
 Point is that UNC has *no* business playing I-AA teams (and neither does
 Virginia for anyone who's thinking of starting that rathole up again).  
 If Furman played 11 games against Div I-A teams, they'd probably finish
 0-11 or maybe 1-10.   They are *not* a Div I-A caliber opponent ... yet
 the Heels scheduled them.
 
 Bob Hunt

Mack must be under the gun to post some winning numbers at No Carolina.
The problem that he has is that despite the outta conference cupcakes,
he's looking at a losing conference record and the alumni notice those
kinda things.

I think it's pitiful. All you hear about is how Mack is gonna make the
Heels big time football again. With this this schedule, even if
he goes 8-3 the bowls will laugh at who they played.

BTW, look for the Heels to run it up big against these teams. It's
definitely their style.

TTom

> I think it's pitiful. All you hear about is how Mack is gonna make the
> Heels big time football again. With this this schedule, even if
> he goes 8-3 the bowls will laugh at who they played.
    
    If UNC goes 8-3 they'll have finished 5-3 in the ACC.  Is that to laugh
    at (you don't want *me* to answer that question, do you? ;-)?
    
    I don't think UNC's schedule differs significantly from the average ACC
    schedule over the years.  Hey, what did NC State play last year, two or 
    three 1-AA opponents?  And Furman almost beat ACC "power" and reigning 
    national champ Georgia Tech last year.  I think UNC is just playing to 
    par the course like everyone else in the ACC...
    
    glenn
    

Glenn,

I'll give you that the ACC is playing a fairly lame series of schedules,
and has been. State played Va Tech and South Carolina outta conference
but also played - and barely/sorta beat - Marshall and that major
powerhouse Kent formerly State. 

But, then again State has ended up in a bowl something like 4 outta the
lasted 5. 

Meanwhile, Mack Brown and No Carolina are crowing each year about their
fabled recruiting under Brown. And they continue not getting it done.

And for sure you got me on the math of the numbers. If No Carolina or
almost any other school in the conference goes 5-3 having to play Florida
State and Clemson they'll go bowling. 

TTom
loses 3 games in the ACC

    .350� If Furman played 11 games against Div I-A teams, they'd probably finish
    .350� 0-11 or maybe 1-10.   They are *not* a Div I-A caliber opponent ... yet
    
    	I'll take the Purple MEN of the south!  I wish they were in I-A..it
    would be great watching all those high paid and highly recruited bozo's
    loose!  :*)
    
    	Furman can take'em!  Go Paladines!  Whada team!  Remember, Dick had
    them there first!
    
    B.A.

    
    	Time to say goodbye!  Yep, it's all over but the shouting!
    
    	TTom, Bob, Saw and many others, it's been fun and interesting and
    sometimes a pain, but none the less, a great experience noting with
    you!  Thanks for a bunch of memories!
    
    Go PACK!
    
    Brian Adams
    (B.A.)

    B_A,
    
    sorry to see ya go but glad y'all will still have a paycheck.  Hope
    AMP_etc. is good to y'all.  You coming in over the weekend to work for
    free?
    
    Gonna miss some of the stuff you wrote and with ACC_Chris gone (your
    clone right?), note 17 just won't be the same.
    
    best o' luck,
    Kev
    

B.A.

Good luck dude.  No offense to the others (BobHunt, dan'l, etc), but I always 
considered you our foremost athority on the South!    8^)

=Bob=

 Good-bye, Brian.   Take care and good luck with your new employers.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.   That's okay, =Bob=, I always considered you the authority on
 raising daughters.  :-)

 yup Good Luck B_A.....sorry to see ya go

      Have fun in yur new ventures!
    
      Shake-ups are coming this way too....
    
    	Tim

    Okay, what the heck does "IPTAY" mean???
    
    That was one good game Saturday night.  Gotta give Ward and FSU credit
    for coming back in a hostile environment.  It looked like Clemson might
    have it after taking a 13-10 lead and having the momentum fully on
    their side.  
    
    
    Joe

 IPTAY is the acronym for the Clemson Booster Club.   It started out many
 many years ago as "I Pay Ten A Year" which was the goal back then ... $10
 bucks a year got you into the IPTAY Club.
 
 Then it became "I Pay Twenty A Year" and then "I Pay Thirty A Year".  Then
 they upped it to a $100 bucks a year but kept the IPTAY name the same. 
 I have no idea what the minimum number is these days.
 
 We always thought it was the stupidest booster club name we'd ever heard. 
 Still do.   We always changed it so it had an "agricultural" flair to it
 as in ... "I Plow Thirty Acres/Year".
 
 Dumb name but they got cash coming out their whazoos.  They riase
 *millions* every year.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    The ip-tay is what you leave the aiter-way when pay for your eal-may.
    
    

    Thanks Bob, I figured it was something that's well-known around the
    ACC.  I'm surprised the announcers didn't say anything about it, but I
    missed a few plays so I could've missed them saying something about it.
    
    Joe
    

    Hey, Bob, are you sure you're not from Clemson?  That sounded exactly
    like what I heard from a Clemson alum on Saturday (the last he knew it
    was $100/year and he bailed out before it got that high).

    My downstairs neighbor is a Clemson grad and he's a proud member of
    IPTAY.
    
    John

ACC football predictions.

	Florida St covers the 11 over NC State.

	Virginia minus the 5 over Georgia Tech.

	Maryland plus the 8 at West Virginia (maybe even win!)

	No Carolina drubs Army and covers the 20 points.

	Duke beats Rice, doesnt' need the point.

TTom

re: predictions.

A not-too-shabby 4-1 for this prognosticator.

Florida State showed how dominant and how deep they are. This was close
for a while until a key interception by the Seminoles. The Pack were up
3-0 and looking good. They went deep just when the short game was
starting to work. The Noles intecepted and marched for the first of many
TDs. Final: 34-13.

Virginia is the real unexpected power of the ACC. They pummled Ga Tech,
55-24 and appear at #14 on the CNN poll. It looks like Walsh has that
team ready.

Maryland shoulda coulda and almost woulda won the game but lost a real
heartbreaker at Morganhole, 33-34.

No Carolina managed to look overrated at home against a hapless Army
team. The Heels won but it wan't pretty, 22-9 for the big Did Not Cover.

Duke-Rice figured to be up and down the court but the Blue Devils settled
for a 17-12 win.

Florida St is currently #3, Virginina is #14, Clemso, which had a bye, is
#16 and NC State checks in at #23.

TTom

    Looks like that prediction of FSU losing "at least 2 conference games"
    isn't gonna hold up...
    
    
    Joe

From this perspective, the only one who has a chance is Virginia. The
rest of their ACC schedule looks like:

	9/26	vs	Wake Forest (major blowout)
	10/10	vs	No Carolina (ouch)
	10/17	at	Georgia Tech (would be a real upset)
	10/31	at	Virginia (only real conference chance for loss)
	11/7	vs	Maryland (could be win but not cover)

They've already beaten Duke, Clemson and State.

TTom

    Well I hope all of FSU's players have got girlfriends who can
    attend their classes for them and do their homework so they
    can rightfully prepare for their gridiron matches. That Casey
    Weldon sure leaves a lasting legacy.
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    

Virginia's Bobby Goodman is the number 1 rated QB. Virginia is 3-0, 2-0
in the ACC, ranked #14 and looks to be the only threat to Florida
State's run at the conference title.

Goodman is a graduate student. He set a school record for throwing 5 TDs
at Navy and has 11 for the year.

TTom

    re- IPTAY
    
    Another little known fact is that the "SON" in Clemson stands for
    chivalry, honor and knowledge.
    
    HTH
    
    Chris

>    Another little known fact is that the "SON" in Clemson stands for
>    chivalry, honor and knowledge.

SON? Chivarly Honor Knowledge? Maybe using some other alphabet?

TTom

>>SON? Chivarly Honor Knowledge? Maybe using some other alphabet?

It's like the College of Knowledge and Wisdom, also know as the
C of N and W.

Jerry

    re- chivalry, honor, knowledge- say it out loud. It's a joke, son,
    you're supposed to laugh. :^)
    
    Where's Bob Hunt when you need him. UVa is looking awesome, and is my
    favorite to win the ACC. Anyone know where they play FSU and Clemson?
    If they get FSU at home, the Seminoles will fall.
    
    Chris

    UVA gets both FSU and Clemson at home.  They play Clemson Oct. 10th and
    FSU on Oct. 31st.
    
    FSU is playing all the ACC contenders on the road this season and
    they'll still probably go undefeated.
    
    
    Joe

Yeah Bob Hunt has to be happy about his Hoos looking real good and
perhaps he's even enjoying Mack Brown's latest underachievement in losing
to the out-recruited Wolfpack.

Virginia seems to be making a season of scoring 50 points against
unworthy opponents. Duke was the lastest victim. Thised week's sacrifice
is Wake Forest.

Meanwhile in Chapel Hill, No Carolina played the best game they have to
date under Mack's tutelage and still lost when their defense couldn't
hold up to Terry Jordan's arm. It was no small irony that ESPN chose to
interview Mack as part of a segue on the rising fortunes of ACC football.
Mack allowed as to how he has a 6 year contract and all he had to do was
recruit well, run a clean progam and graduate his players. Mack was
especially proud of the fact that he has not been required to win games.
Good thing Mack and good thing you got 6 years. This is the 5th of those
years and now for 4 years running, he had Top 10 recruiting years -
vastly outrecruiting State, as the Heels are eager to remind everyone -
and he still hasn't beaten State.

Upcoming ACC action:

	Florida State visits Miami (Florida, not Ohio) - national TV

	State travels to Georgia Tech - regional TV

	Virginia is at Wake

	No Carolina attempts to recoup at home against Navy.

	Maryland tries to win one at homs versus Pittsburgh.

TTom

    So Karen,  what did Clemson do??? :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Goota say it sure is quite in here since Clemson beat the yahoos!  Poor
    Bob Hunt must be sick. I can't blame him..letting a 28-0 lead go to
    waste!
    
    	For all you Clemson haters...I hate them too, but they do play some
    good football.
    
    	Fla.St is on a roll now..Va might give them a game..but they had
    their bubble busted lasted(tm) week. Look for the Pack to get back into
    form.
    
    B.A.