Conference 7.286::sports_91

Cain we shut down Waddles writing privs....

Seems every note he starts either is some Yuppy fad type thang. Or some has 
been team with potential to really fall flat year after year after year. 

    You guys won't be yawning in October when the Yankees are still
    playing!  I too like the Yankees chances this year.  I think Maas
    will have an excellent year!
    
    Glen.

    Glen, it ain't the Yankmes that elicited this response, it's Wardle,
    the 'Vane of sports.  He's not actually declaring his undying love
    (define "undying" as everlasting, or until they get eliminated) for the
    Yanks, he's just prepping us for his ascention to their bandwagon
    should they have a strong year.
    
    I'd expect that you'll see this same sort of note in here for any team
    presently residing in 1st place, regardless of division, league, or
    even type of sport!  Wardle has got the quickest jump, it's a shame it
    isn't an Olympic sport.  He definitely own the record for most jumps in
    a season, longest jump, shortest, etc.
    
    Heck, I hear that one manufacturer of bandwagons has recently designed
    a new type of seat which is spring-loaded, and can be directed to eject
    the occupant directly into his next-chosen wagon.  It's called a
    WardleShooter.  It can be programmed so that the sitter doesn't even
    have to keep track of the standings.  It scans the sports section, and
    when the team it represents falls from 1st place, it automatically
    begins to zero-in on the team that replaced it.  It sets range and
    angle, then fires the occupant over to that wagon.
    
    lEe

HA! Good one leE! Wardleshooter(tm)! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!


Steve

    I don't the Yanks will contend *this year*, but they'll definitely be
    improved.  A healthy Mattingly, a full year of Kevin Maas, and the
    arrival of Hensley Meulens will boost the offense; last year's cellar
    finish was as much the fault of poor offense as it was of the pitching
    (remember all the low-scoring close losses Tim Leary had last year?).
    Pitching and third base are still deficiencies that need to be
    strengthened, but this team will at least be fun to watch this year
    unlike the last couple years.
    
    Glen, there's a New York Yankees notesfile at DSSDEV::YANKEE.
    
    
    py
                            

 LEe, that Wardleshooter is priceless...I haven't laughed that hard in ages...
 I saw one of Markie's notes with in the p-name and was scratchin' my haid...

 hahhaa I love how it can be programmed hahaaa

 mike

�    You guys won't be yawning in October when the Yankees are still
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
�    playing!  I too like the Yankees chances this year.  I think Maas
     ^^^^^^^^
�    will have an excellent year!
    
�    Glen.

	Glen, have the Yankees scheduled a Japan tour for after the season?

				/Don

    All teams will still be playing in October unless they fold during the
    season.  Yanks host Baltimore October 1-3 and Cleveland October 4-6.
    
    HTH,
    
    John

                       To steal a concept from Dan'l:

                 CIRCLE THE BANDWAGONS! JoJ is loose again!

   Mike JN

    Jees, you guys are brutal!  When I said that the Yankees would still
    be playing in October, I meant in the playoffs!
    
    Glen.
    
    p.s. That was a good one about the waddlehopper or whatever you
    called it.  

    What I want to know is:  how does he jump bandwagons with rollerblades
    on?
    
    Mike

    Geez, if you all weren't such a bunch of idiots, I'd be insulted.
    
    The 'vane reputation has absolutely no substance or troof behind it.
    I've been a Jets fan and DEVILS fan as long as any of you can 'amember.
    
    I've been a Yankee fan since I was a kid, except for my two years in
    Colorado when I became a Cubs fan.
    
    So, I resent all the 'vane talk and challenge any of you to prove that
    I'm actually a bandwagon jumper.
    
    re: Childs
    
    And YOU, Mikey, are a 'vane if I've ever seen one. Changing from a Hoya
    shirt to a Pirate shirt in the middle of the second half...geeez, what
    a 'vane.
    
    JoJ

>    The 'vane reputation has absolutely no substance or troof behind it.
>   I've been a Jets fan and DEVILS fan as long as any of you can 'amember.
    
    And a BlueJays fan
    And a Broons fan
    And a <fill in> fan
    And a
    And a
    .
    .
    .
    
    

    The Yanks just beat KC 9-8, another great pitching display.
    
    Parade in October.....
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
    

    Yo...!!! RTG, cain you prove that I was ever a BlueJays fan? Or a,
    yuck, Bruins fan?
    
    No way...I know you caint prove it.
    
    JoJ

    Most, if not all, of this vane stuff can't be proven.  Mainly cause it's
    all in older versions of Sports.
    
    But, JoJ's most repeated line over all those versions was "I like
    (insert any team name), they've always been one of my favorites!"
    :*)   :*)
    
    JoJ, as long as the jury finds you guilty, we don't need to show proof
    to convince you.  You got no vote, you're the defendant!1111
    
    lEe

    The Whitesox's are beating the Yankee's 2-0 after 1 inning. Robin
    Ventura hit a 2 run homer off of Sanderson. There was a light rain 
    coming down when I left. The Yankee's might get lucky and I have
    it called off.
    
    Will

>    What I want to know is:  how does he jump bandwagons with rollerblades
>    on?
    
 
 Much Quicker....

 ;^)

    Yanks lost again last night, 4-3 in 10 at home, to the unbeaten White Sox.
    
    This will be a long season for the Yanks.  As bad as it will get, I
    hope that they stay with the young kids, and bring up one of the
    Williams' to play RF.  As good as Barfield is defensively, he can't hit, 
    and since this team is going nowhere, they should package him in a deal 
    for a pitcher as soon as some contender's key OF'er comes down with an
    injury.
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
    

    I watched part of the Yankee / Whitesox game last night on WGN.  At one
    point, the Sox pitcher had a 3-0 count and threw a very dangerous pitch
    rather than a pure strike (since the batter would be taking).  The
    color man said: 
    
    	"He's got to have a lot of gonads to throw that one."
    
    I was expecting silence and then tons of laughter, but they both just
    kept talking.  Can you say 'nads' on TV or were they just doing a
    professional cover up?  
    
    Whatever, I was laughing my balls (and strikes) off.
    
    	--dan'l

 BoB, still planning on going to the stadium to check out a game???

 ;^)

    YANKS WON LAST NIGHT....IT'S THE START OF A STREAK!

I wouldn't get my hopes up.  Even blind Yankee devotee extraordinaire Dan
Schneider was sighted today in Maynard wearing a Chicago Cubs t-shirt.

j.

    .don, the master of the one liners today..
    this dockers for you!!!!!!!
    

    The Yanks beat the Royals 3-1 last night at the Stadium, thanks to
    3-hit, 12 K pitching from Tim Leary (now 2-0) and a game-winning 2-run 
    homer by Jesse Barfield (who they should still get rid of).
    
    Yanks are now 4-6 on the season.
    
    Parade in October.....
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
             

    Dan was wearing a Cubs shirt? Well, being a Cubs fan is ok. He's still
    a Yankee fan. He recently sent me mail about going to the stadium for a
    game so I know he's still a pinstriped fan.
    
    BEsides, I also like the Cubs.
    
    JoJ

    
    Big game from Leary last night, 12ks... and they got him 3 runs :)
    
    dinz
    

    I invited Ras to join the conference again just to participate in this
    note....dunno if he'll take me up on it.
    
    JoJ

    Do I really want to ;) ??
    Ya, why not.
    Hey, JoJ, I thought you were in CXO. What happened? How come you're
    back at PARVAX?
    
    Ras

	Tigers bludgeon Yankees 10-5.  Columbus Day Parade in October!

    Wow, this is like old times. I'm getting misty-eyed. I mean, the dInZ
    lives! So does Vane. Is this a time warp, or what!
    
    Where's MrT when we need him the most??
    
    I really miss the T/Dan debates.
    
    Guess I'll put some sanity (BOO! Hiss....) into this note. The Yanks
    probably won't reach .500 this year. You heard it here first. Their
    pitching is pathetic. Yup, they'll hot more, but I can't see the
    starters giving up less runs than last year. More maybe. Look at it:
    Perez (HA! gimme a break), Witt? (real dependable) Sanderson's OK, hope
    to get 10-12 W's from him (I own him in BNBAL) Leary? probably has the
    best arm on the staff, but bet he'll still lose more than he wins.
    Carey? (gag) Caderet (another gag). Worst staff they've had in years.
    
    But I'm still a Yankee fan. A diehard. Was in 1969 & have been ever
    since. 
    
    Ras (seen in Knoxville TN, wearing a Knoxville K-Jays cap)

    Welcome back Raz.....I'm still workin for Europe, and rootin against
    the Skanks.
    
    RTG

    Soooprize, sooprize (said in my best Gomer Pyle voice)...hi Ras!
                                                                
    Again, the Yanks will show some improvement this year -- they at least
    have a reasonable offense this year, last year both offense (except
    Maas) and pitching stunk the joint out -- but until the starting
    rotation gets a significant upgrade, they'll only go so far.
    
    
    py

       Hey Raz, the T-Dan debates are over in the UNLV note.
                                              Denny                

    Yanks sip.  Welcome back.

    Ras, how long you gonna stay this year?  :*)
    
    lEe

HEY! It's SPAZ!! 8^))) Just kiddin'! Welcome to the fray Ras! 

The Yanks better find someone to hit behind Maas. The kids already 
walked about 20 times! He is a talent.



Steve

Welcome aboard Ras, for the nth time 8^)

Just don't make any bets about wearing a Red Sox jock strap and running
around shouting "Clemens is God" if the Sox win the division 8^)  (see
Dinz for details)

Yanks sip fecal matter through a large straw....


HTH,
'Saw

    Hey Ras, glad you took me up on the invite to come back here...
    
    I was in CXO, but relo'd back to NJ....been here for about a year.
    
    re: /Don
    
    YANKS crush Tigers, 5-0...Mattingly HR watch is over.
    
    JoJ

    The Tigers spanked the Yanks last night.  Anybody know the score?
    Come on Yanks, lets string so wins together, O.K.?
    
    My second favorite team is really on a roll, though.  The Mariners
    have won eight games in a row!  Go M's.
    
    Glen.

    regarding the gongs,
    
    REK, 
    
    THE  Mattingly watch is over
    dinz
    

    Dinz, I'm still laughing at the Yankme's team.. In fack, I'm gonna
    start GONGING the whole team to see when you are eliminated from the
    pennant race!!!

    REK

    
    but rek, im not in the pennent  race :))
    
    ha
    
    dinz
    

    Dinz, you are lucking to be in the HUMAN RACE!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
    
    REK

    Gong.
    

    Maas had a 3-run homer on Opening Day.
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
    

�                      -< The Maas watch never began..... >-
�
�    Maas had a 3-run homer on Opening Day.
    
    Yeah, but isn't he 0-fer in his last 6 or 7 games?  I remember reading
    that he didn't have a hit over a five game stretch.

    Maas is not o'fer; plus, he's leading the league in walks.
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
    

    re .55:
    
    >  Maas is...leading the league in walks.
    
    Who's been batting 5th for the Yanks?  One would have to infer that
    teams have been pitching around Kevin...
    
    
    py

    According to the article I read, Maas started out hot and then
    disappeared for 5 games.  I was wondering if he is over his slump.  The
    article mentioned that he is walking alot, due mostly to the fact he
    has a stiff batting behind him.

    I still say Roberto Kelly should bat 5th (for reasons I've already
    listed a couple times in the Yankees' notesfile).
    
    
    py

    ooh mac, be nice now, damn, i wish the yanks and sox played more often
    
    dinz
    

    Dinz, I thought both the yanks and sox played 162 games.  :*)
    
    lEe

    hahahahaha

re:   the "stiff" batting behind Maas

That job has been given (so far) to ROOKIE Hensley Meulens and Mel Hall.
I think it's very early to call Meulens a stiff (unless you think like
George Steinbrenner), and Mel Hall is a pretty darn good hitter, just not
hitting for average right now.  Meulens should be dropped down to take
the pressure off of him.

But after watching or listening to most of the Yanks' 16 games (wow, that's
a lot to base judgements on, isn't it ???) there is no doubt that Maas is
being pitched around.  His BB total is indicative of this, and even when
they do pitch to him (as Frank Tanana did last week), he sees nothing
but garbage on the extreme corners of the strike zone.  Sparky Anderson
was quoted last week as saying, "until the #5 man starts to hit, NO ONE
is going to pitch to that kid (Maas)."  I think that says a lot about
what BASEBALL PEOPLE think of Kevin Maas.

He'll need to learn to hit the crap he's seeing, but for a kid that hasn't
played a full ML season yet, he's gained a lot of respect around the league.

is the Kevin Maas Watch still on ????   :)  :)  (ha, ha, ha)

    
    What's the Kevin Maas watch?  To see if he can play on as many last
    place and/or sub .500 teams as Don Mattingly?  Granted, it will be a
    tough record to match, but he's young.    :)

    Hahahahaha, nice cheap shot, Bruce!!!111   :*)
    
    lEe

    A old  co-worker of mine about lEES  AGE :)), said to me this morn
    
    
    Jim, the  red  sox  with their  pitching  could  run away and hide,
    
    i said  hide where  haaaaaa..
    
    dinz
    

>>    A old  co-worker of mine about lEES  AGE :)), said to me this morn

Dinz, say hi to Methuselah for me.

j.

    
    Dinz, his initials wouldn't happen to be J.C. now would they?
    
    8^)
    
    
    Steve

          <<< Note 135.68 by KEPNUT::DIGGINS "Thirst N'Howl Roolz!" >>>
                          -< Hey LeE your old! 8^))) >-
    
    Quick, someone call the Apostrophe Police!
    
    Mark.

    This morning's paper had a quote from Don Mattingly saying that he
    misses the presence of George Steinbrenner. Says that, at least, George
    would be "doing something" now instead of watching the team flounder.
    
    As far as Mass goes, the guy isn't for real. He benefits from playing
    half his games in Yankee Stadium. The Park Effect skews his
    accomplishments.
    
    Rich
    

    Yanks waived Andy Hawkins, and brought up Steve Howe.
    
    					Steve

 >>   Yanks waived Andy Hawkins, and brought up Steve Howe.
    
    Is Steve gonna play the National Anthem on his guitar or something? He
    is an awesome musician. Maybe he'll play "The Gates of Delirium"
    instead of The Anthem and create some controversy.
    
    JoJ

>    As far as Mass goes, the guy isn't for real. He benefits from playing
>    half his games in Yankee Stadium. The Park Effect skews his
>    accomplishments.

Hey Rich, you better check your stats before you're sure about this
kid.  I believe he hit over 10 HRs on the road last year...and at
least 3 of his 6 are on the road this year.

Some of his Yankee Stadium HRs have been upper deckers (ie: short porch
wasn't needed).

A better case might be made for Mattingly's HR #s.

    Actually, Joe, I was just trying to bait our highly esteemed expert on
    "Park Effects" but so far he hasn't bit.
    
    Maas reminds me a little of Pasqua when the kid came up. I thought he
    (Pasqua) would be a killer at the Stadium but I guess the kid just
    wasn't cut out for it.
    
    My problem, I guess, is that I have had a belly full of younf Yankee
    superstar tripe. There was Jay Buehner, Dan Pasqua, Hensley Muelens -
    now Kevin Maas. Admittedly, Maas has looked good so far but let's see
    how he does over 3-4 years.
    
    Rich
    

    Yanks win another  7-1, behind  Pasquel  perez.. homers by Hall,
    nokes, and barfield.. Habyan  gets the save ..
    
    dinz
    

    Gosh, Pascal Perez HAS to do something about his hair and the way he
    wears his cap.  His hair looks like they used it to clean up the Gulf
    Oil Spill.  I almost got sick looking at it.  ANd the way he wears his
    cap - c'mon Pascal, get a cap that fits!  Dang thing hangs down around
    his eyebrows!
    JD

>                        -< GONGGONGGONGGONGGONGGONGGO >-

yeah, but we aren't supposed to do anything this year !!!  and we're not the
ones with million $ players at every position !

>    My problem, I guess, is that I have had a belly full of younf Yankee
>    superstar tripe. There was Jay Buehner, Dan Pasqua, Hensley Muelens -

Buhner and Pasqua have made it as ML players.  So the "tripe" must have
been legit.

No doubt that the you'll hear more about Yankees players and minor leaguers
than any other team in baseball, so that can be "hype", I guess.  But the
Yankees farm system has produced a number of good ML players (I think they
are 3rd in baseball in # of ML players coming out of their organization),
and there are more coming.

    Gee, I wonder if the Sox have ever "hyped" any players....
    
    JoJ

    Yeah, Jim, you are correct. We hyped Bobby Sprowel, Carl Yaz and Sam
    Horn. But I have never heard the crowing about Red Sox youngsters that
    I hear about Yankee hopefuls.
    
    BTW - The Yankees are bringing up some guy from Columbus to play 2nd
    base and Sax is being shifted to 3rd base.
    
    Rich
    

    JoY, obviously, by your having to ask the question, the answer is "no."
    
    HTH

    Of all the players currently in MLB, the Red Sox farm system has
    produced more than any other team.
    
    					Steve

    re the last few:
      
    Even many Red Sox fans I know got sick of the constant "future Hall of
    Famer"  proclaimations about Mo Vaughn this past winter.
    
    The new Yankee 2B is Pat Kelly, he was 2nd in the International League
    in BA at the time he got called up.
    
    
    py

    
    Even Mo Vaughn was smart enough not to get caught up in the 
    throngs of the over zealous Boston baseball writers. He kept
    skirting the press by saying he had to prove himself first and 
    if he could do 1/5 of what the press expects him to do he'd
    be satisfied.
    
    
    Steve

    Yanks win their 5th straight. Big comeback win over the hapless Red Sox
    yesterday.
    
    They even have four pitchers with ERA's under 2.00
    
    JoJ

>                     -< Where DID I put those standings? >-

You better find them DD, 'cause they're changing daily.

Wonder how the Red Sox feel, knowing the "rebuilding" Yanks are
within 6 of the "already crowned AL Champions" ?  But they have
bigger worries than the "youngsters" in the Bronx.  This was
supposed to be a stretch where Boston put some light between
them and the westcoast-tripping Blue Jays, and it didn't happen.


re: hyped players

Hal Morris was well known as a Yankee minor leaguer.  He was
on the IL All-Star team 2 yrs running and then had an injury
of some sort.  He wasn't going anywhere with Mattingly still
in his 20s...kinda like a 3B in the Red Sox organization....
or like Mo Vaughn, or Phil Plantier....

Speaking of Red Sox 'hypesters', anyone got some stats on how
Bagwell's doing in Houston ?  And is Naehring the next Rick
Burleson ?...or the next Sam Horn ?


I think there's a greater chance that in the near future the Red
Sox will trade more minor league prospects than the Yanks (ie:
aging, big-buck team reaching for one last shot at the crown).

    SI had a sad but true account of the demise of the Yankees. Not the
    demise of recent years, but the overall demise from the glory days 30
    years ago when the M&M boys lit up the scoreboard.
    
    The article pointed out how the team in 1961 was perhaps their best
    ever and mentioned that eight players made the all-stars that season.
    They then contrasted today's team with the '61 team and pointed out
    that none of the current players would have even made that great team.
    Except Mattingly if he were having a "mattingly kind of year".
    
    I think the Yanks are doing the right thing going with youth and
    building from the farm system. In the long run, it will be much more
    successful.
    
    I don't think we'll ever see a team as awesome as the Yankees were over
    a 40 year stretch, but maybe the new youth movement can put some
    respectability back in the Bronx.
    
    JoJ

       
    It's one thing to hype minor league players to death that have little
    to no chance of displacing the talented regulars with the big club. 
    There's no real harm in that, with the possible exception of to
    the kid.  It's an entirely different matter to trade off bonafide 
    studs like Drabek, McGriff, McGee, Morris, etc., and then claim that 
    they were known quantities that had no chance of playing behind Rhoden, 
    Balboni, Claudell Washington, and Mattingly.  That's ridiculous.  Kids 
    that can really play, like these guys have, can certainly be put to use 
    on *any* team, much less a team that hasn't threatened much in the last 
    ten years.
    
    And, in general, no matter what team you're talking about the phrase
    "just wait, we got all that young talent down there" is the baseball
    equivalent of "the check's in the mail".  With the possible exception
    of a can't-miss pitching prospect like a Clemens, Gooden, or McDonald, 
    no one has any idea what these minor-league stars will do in the bigs.
    Let's face it; the Yankees have made some incredibly bad decisions that
    they may or may not recover from in the short term...
    
    glenn
    

>    the kid.  It's an entirely different matter to trade off bonafide 
>    studs like Drabek, McGriff, McGee, Morris, etc., and then claim that 

Fred McGriff was a Single A player hitting in the low .200s at the time
he was thrown-in a trade with Toronto.  It's been rptd that the only
reason someone wanted him was that Pat Gillick had just left the Yanks
to take the Toronto job and he knew the kid had talent.  I doubt anyone
else in baseball thought he was a "stud".  Ditto for Willie McGee.  He
didn't get the rave reviews that Otis Nixon got while both were in the
Yanks' farm system.  I wonder if McGee would have been anything had
he not played in the St. Louis' game plan and discovered artificial
turf.

Drabek was a mistake, but one that we can write-off to The Idiot.
The same goes for Hal Morris.  But even the Morris trade wasn't a
bad one.  Tim Leary is a decent pitcher, and you have to give up
something to get something.

The stupid trades of the past are hopefully forever in the past.
Sure, they may make a trade that doesn't work out, but the constant
disregard for prospects in chasing name veterans past their prime
should be over.


BTW, not all the Yanks' trades have been bad ones:

	Lee Geutterman, Clay Parker,
	Wade Taylor			for	Steve Trout and Henry Cotto

	Mel Hall			for	Joel Skinner and Turner Ward

	Matt Nokes			for	Clay Parker and Lance McCullers
						(both have since been released)

	Jesse Barfield			for	Al Leiter




re: '61 Yanks

Don't get too depressed thinking about the "glory days" Jim.  No pro
sports team will ever enjoy the hey-days that the Yanks, or the Packers,
or the Celtics, or the Canadiens knew.  Expansion and free agency have
had a lot to do with that.  But if the Yanks front office will let their
excellent baseball people (scouts, GM, mgr) do their jobs, and they
have patience with Maas, Meulens, Kelly, Williams (1&2), etc...we'll
have a more consistent, winning team, and a return to world championships.

>>Don't get too depressed thinking about the "glory days" Jim.  No pro
>>sports team will ever enjoy the hey-days that the Yanks, or the Packers,
>>or the Celtics, or the Canadiens knew.  Expansion and free agency have
>>had a lot to do with that.  But if the Yanks front office will let their
>>excellent baseball people (scouts, GM, mgr) do their jobs, and they
>>have patience with Maas, Meulens, Kelly, Williams (1&2), etc...we'll
>>have a more consistent, winning team, and a return to world championships.
    
    I agree with you. And clearly the culprit(s) is expansion and free
    agency. In recent years, Hockey and Football have provided some
    resemblence of the old powerhouses....the Niners have been consistently
    good for a long time now, and the Islanders and Oilers have had
    "dynasty" type teams with numerous championships.
    
    Most teams have one or two great players and the rest are average. 
    
    JoJ

9 HRs, 6 vs. lefties.

    As a baseball fan, I'm happy to see the Yankees doing well.
    As a Sox fan, I wish they would have waited another week.
    
    Mark.

    This note was real quiet until the Yanks actually won a couple of
    games...

People are starting to notice the POWER in that young
Yankee line-up...

If their pitching improves, the future looks bright!


- Steve, a lifelong Sox fan who appreciates the underdog!

    re: 97
    
    Yeh, isn't it great?
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
    

who's doing the GONGS out there ???

Yanks down to 3 in the loss column, and 4 overall, behind the awesome
AL Champion Boston Red Sox.

    How's they do lasted night, Joe?
    
    Rich
    

>    How's they do lasted night, Joe?

You know my point Rich...it's a joke that the *rebuilding* Yankees
are so close to that powerhouse Boston team.  As Bob Lobel called
them, "the worst 1st-place team in baseball".  And IMO, it's going
to get uglier.  The lynch mobs are forming for Clark and Young.
Soon it will be Darwin and Reardon....and then Brunansky (when
he hits mid-season form).  Ol' Lou Gorman has financially strapped
himself to the electric chair.  The only moves he'll be able to make
(ie: trades) are those that increase that HUMUNGOUS payroll.  And
since he says they have a self-imposed salary cap, you guys will
be trying to win it all with the likes of Gardiner, Morton, Vaughn
and Plantier.

The Boston-NY series in September should be enjoyable for Yanks
fans.

    Joe -
    
    Your reasonably safe in predicting a fall flop for the Sox. Heck, only
    JD was in here pounding his chest claiming that the Sox were the team
    to beat in the AL this year. I, like so many other fans who have died
    (can't say we lived much) with this team for the past few decades, hold
    our mouths until that grand and glorious day when the championship flag
    flies over Fenway - or wherever they happen to be playing when that day
    happens.
    
    Now, your Yankees. Let's take things in context. The Tigers are
    actually a team in the East to be reckoned with. And the Tigers have
    Frank Tanana as a starter. The Indians are the same old Indians and
    with MacNamara on the bench and Doug Jones gone from the limelight, how
    can they threaten. The Orioles have come back to earth although the Red
    Sox made them look good over the weekend. The Jays have the most talent
    in the division - AGAIN - but their collar gets awful tight by
    September. Now, the Yankees are rebuilding. Perhaps they have wised up
    and elected to bring along the kids who rip up the Eastern and
    International League year in and year out. But, it's a long
    process...takes about 5 years. Will the fans wait? Will Yankee
    management wait? 
    
    Make no mistake, there's nothing I like more than seeing the Yankees
    lose. Sort of like the anti-Celtic zealots. Yes, I admire their past
    accomplishments and yes I remember that it came at the expense of my
    Red Sox. Jealousy? Perhaps. I love it when they lose. Ask me who my
    fave ex-Yankee is and I won't say DiMaggio or Ruth or Gehrig or
    Mantle. It's Oscar Gamble battling the Left Field Wall at Fenway on a
    windy day. Or Horace Clarke running into Joe Pepitone chasing - and
    dropping - a fly ball.
    
    But the nucleus is there. I've always thought Roberto Kelly was
    dynamite. Pat Kelly looks like a comer, too. Maas is bona fide baseball
    card material and you've still got Mattingly and Sax. Patience is
    golden. 
    
    And, you may chuckle as the Sox fall through the standings. It may not
    be to fast a fall since the rest of the division is so bad but the trip
    to the cellar is inevitable.
    
    Rich
    

    I'm beginning to agree with Joe that this Red Sox team was much 
    overrated.  Yes, I know that I joined forces with JD at the start of
    the year to state that finally this team had the talent to win it all,
    but so far all three of the off-season big-money acquisitions (Young,
    Clark, Darwin) have been busts and I only feel comfortable that Darwin
    will come out of it.  That makes it a break-even proposition at best
    considering the loss of Boddicker.  Of the core players who were
    around last year and appeared to underachieve, like Greenwell and
    Burks, none have really turned it up from their performance last year
    to take up the slack, either.
    
    What do you think, JD?  Is it permissible for Sox fans to panic yet, or
    do you still have faith in the talent level of this team?
    
    glenn
     

    No panic yet.   It's still early, and I think Darwin will do the job. 
    Roger will win 20, despite recent problems.   This road trip might be
    horrors.  The ANgels are playing well, and the Mighty M's are tough in
    the Dome (plus the Seattle crowd will be at the game nexted
    Wednesday!!)
    
    The bats will awaken.  Clark will come around.  I still predict 10 wins
    at least from Matt Young.  Remmeber, folks said Darwin and Young
    couldn't replace Boddicker - well Bods is on the DL.  
    
    Sox will fly in 91.
    
    JD

    Boddicker is now off the DL...he pitched 8 innings of 4-hit ball last
    night to even his record at 4-4.
    
    As far as the too-early-in-the-season-to-call-for-the-Sox-demise notes
    are concerned........I've heard this each of the past four
    years...THREE of which saw the Sox win the ALeast.  I am disappointed
    with Clark's production to date....but feel that he is plenty capable
    of carrying the team for a two week stretch here and there before
    season's end.  Young has been up and down (some excellent performances
    and some where he couldn't throw out the garbage) but I'm still happy
    to have a hard throwing lefty in the rotation....he'll win 10-12
    minimum this year (IMHO).  
    
    As far as Yankee-Joe's comments are concerned...I'm amazed if not
    amused by your prognostication!!! To paraphrase....the Sox that are
    playing lousy now will continue to do so, while those playing well will
    cease doing so!!!  Imagine if you will, Dribbles, that you are
    wrong....and that those that are doing lousy CEASE doing so and those
    that are playing well CONTINUE to do so!!!  There's as much chance of
    that happening as there is that your scenario plays out.
    
    Lastly, not only do I think it would NOT be bad to have to rely on
    Gardiner, Morton and Plantier (if Vaughn makes it, all the better) to
    play a key role in a successful BoSox season.....I'm anxious for the
    Sox brass to do the right thing and bring Morton and Plantier up
    (Morton could replace Lamp on the roster while Plantier could take
    Brumley's spot once Riviera is healthy....meaning that Reed would be
    the backup SS and Lyons the backup at 2B).  I STILL believe the Sox
    have the talent to make it to the ALCS...and once getting there,
    anything can happen!!!
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Nelly 

All this stuff about 'folding up the tents' reminds me of the basketball
fans who figure a ten-point lead at halftime (or even after 3 quarters) is
a LOCK!!

Hey, guys, none of the Sox hitters is as BAD as they've been lately, and
none as consistently HOT as they were in mid-April.  The team will rise
and fall on their bats, and that's just a matter of time...

As for the pitching -- yes, I'd like to see Morton in there, at least by
August!  But lately they've been getting 6 or 7 from most of the starters
(including Young), between 2 and 4 runs per game at worst.  With just a
LITTLE hitting, that works out to a win-streak!

Look at the calendar, folks!  Then look at the standings, and notice that
NOBODY (except maybe Cleveland, but what else is new?) is really out of it
yet... including you Yanks, I might add!

- Steve, who's_been-through_this_too_many_times_to_panic

>    As far as Yankee-Joe's comments are concerned...I'm amazed if not
>    amused by your prognostication!!! To paraphrase....the Sox that are
>    playing lousy now will continue to do so, while those playing well will
>    cease doing so!!!

As I pointed out in our phone conversation Nelly, my belief is that the
Red Sox have become the early-80's Yankees:  high-priced, past-their-
prime veterans (save a few), with minor league talent backed-up in
Pawtucket.  With the desire to go for it all while they have a shot at
it (afterall, they're one Clemens injury away from the Detroits, Milwaukees
and NY's of the division), I think Boston will fall victim to the same
strategy that every other contender follows:  trade prospects for proven vets.


Joe

For those of you that haven't heard, the Yanks will start Jeff Johnson
tonight, in place of Pasqual Perez.  Johnson is a lefthander, and considered
one of their bright pitching prospects.  He is among the triple-A ERA
leaders (nationally).

Are we supposed to be scared or somin' Joe? I thought it was the Sox'
who hadto rely on thier AAA talent? 8^)


Steve

    Sorry, Joe, there is a big difference betweeen the Sox signing 3 free
    agents (which all filled needs - the Sox lost Boddicker and didn't have
    a HR threat) this year and the Yanks signing the big names during the
    George years.  The majority of the players on the Sox roster have come
    up through their own system.  They have helped fill out their bullpen
    with bargain basement talent picked up from the waiver wire.  The last
    free agent pickup they made prior to this year was Tony Pe�a.  He was
    aquired due to Marzano showing he's not much more than a backup and the
    demise of Rich Gedman.
    
    I don't understand people writing off Darwin and lumping him in with
    Clark and Young.  Darwin came down with pneumonia.  We're not talking a
    major arm problem here (can you say Pasqual Perez?) and he's been
    pitching as well as expected when you take out the games in which he
    was sick.  Many think the Sox didn't expect to get Darwin and therefore
    went after Young as insurance.

>Are we supposed to be scared or somin' Joe? I thought it was the Sox'
>who hadto rely on thier AAA talent? 8^)

oh gee....I must have lost my head....I thought this was the Yankees
note.  How stupid of me to think that there might be people in hear
that want to hear Yanks news.


re: Mac's assessment of the Sox spending spree

"A rose by any other name is still a rose"....fact is, the Red Sox have
a huge payroll, stuffed with some players (Clark, Reardon, Darwin,
Brunansky, Young) that will be increasingly less productive in their
latter years.  Because of their contracts, the Sox won't be able to
deal them, thereby causing them to keep them (retarding prospects
growth) or eat their contracts (lessening the likelyhood that they'll
be a significant player in future free agent markets).


Take it from a guy who's been there.

Oooo pardom moi for living Joe. I promise I won't do it again, really.
Sorry. I mean it, really. I should've known better. I lost my head, sorry.
Did I say I was sorry? 



Steve 

    Say you're sorry, Steve.
    
    :*)
    
    Lee

Gee I did lEe, wasn't it sincere enuff? 8^)
I should've realized that..this was indeed the Yankee note!

BTW, what does your node name stand for? 

Da Sox pile sh*t? Couldn't be any truer right now!!


Steve

    I got an idea.  A Sox/Yanks contest.  I'll give a prize to the person
    who guesses the final series record between teh Sox and Yanks, and for
    a tiebreaker, we'll use final standing in the AL East - predict
    placement and GB for each team (I.E. Sox 2nd, Yanks 5th 10 Games back
    of Sox).
    
    Send entries to my mail account, not to here, and I'll keep em in a
    folder til then.  
    
    JD

    Digger,  
    
    I'm afraid the node name isn't that well thought out.  The DAS stands
    for Dascomb Road.  I guess the XPS is for express, or something like
    that.  Anyway, there's another system on the cluster named BOSOX.  You
    can imagine how happy I get when my mail goes out on that one!
    
    :*)
    
    Lee

    The Yankees beat the Rangers last night, 5-4, on a bottom of the ninth,
    2-out single by Don Mattingly to drive in Steve Sax, who had doubled. 
    
    With the Blue Jays losing to the Orioles, the Yanks are now 3.5 games
    out of first, and 1 out in the loss column (I believe they're 2 out in
    the loss column to the Red Sox).
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
    

Anyone know who the Yanks moved to make room for Carlos Rodriquez this
past wkend ?  I know they brought up Kamienicki for Witt, but who got
the shove for Rodriguez ?

    re .119:
    
    Chuck Cary got sent down.
    
    
    py

Hey you Red Sox guys, it must be killing you to see the Yanks
starting 3 rookies against Toronto this week.  You can't blame
The Idiot for throwing 'em, he ain't around.  The good news is,
the Yanks will take 2 anyway (already have 1, thanks Scott
Kamieniecki), as they always play well up there.

    Nice to see the Yanks playing competitively again; I look forward to
    the next few years, when the rivalry might once again MEAN something...
    
    Also good to see ANYBODY exposing the overblowjays' weaknesses...
    
    - Steve

> Hey you Red Sox guys, it must be killing you to see the Yanks
> starting 3 rookies against Toronto this week.  You can't blame
> The Idiot for throwing 'em, he ain't around
    
    Not as much as if they were starting veteran stiffs like Andy Hawkins,
    Dave LaPoint, or Steve Trout.  *That* I would blame The Idiot for...
    
    glenn
    

    Yanks win their first game in a week.  This topic has no replies until
    then.  Coincidence?

    Nah.
    
    Mac, you and I can fill in during the silence after the most excellent
    Yankee losses.
    
    Mark.

>    Nice to see the Yanks playing competitively again; I look forward to
>    the next few years, when the rivalry might once again MEAN something...

What do you mean by "MEAN SOMETHING" ?  Is it "when both teams are contenders"
(as in the '70s) ?

During the early 80's (BC-> before Clemens)...as late as '85...the Yanks
were more contender than Boston.  Hell, even in '87 I think the Yanks finished
ahead of Boston in the standings.

If that's what you mean, --> a strong Yanks team and a strong Boston team
in the same year,  I agree.

    The Yanks helped the Sox out last night by beating Jim Key and the rest
    of the Toronto Blue Jays.

    
    
    	Yeah the sox need all the help they can get since their having
    	trouble accepting the division from anyone handing it to them....
    

    Welcome back, Bob!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I guess 34,000+ don't agree with the Sports Noters that think
the Yanks-Red Sox series doesn't MEAN anything anymore....or
that it's lost something.


Hey fellow Yanks fans, just think how good it'll feel to beat
Clemens and the mighty Sox when it does MEAN something !!!

    It's pretty clear that the long-awaited "competitiveness" between
    the Yanks and Sox is now upon us --
    
    Good to see it back; may the best team win!
    
    - SteveT, who'd_rather_see_a_good_game_than_a_rout_any_day

    
    Joe, you're back.  Yanks must have won, huh.  8^)
    
    34,000 is SOP in Fenway these days, I guess Yankee Stadium isn't quite
    that way.

    I'll save Mike Childs the trouble.  Roger stunk last night.
    
    Mark.

    I seriously DOUBT that Mike would call it trouble, or consider it
    bothersome!  :*)
    
    lEe

�Hey fellow Yanks fans, just think how good it'll feel to beat
�Clemens and the mighty Sox when it does MEAN something !!!

	Joe, I don't know how many Yankee fans can afford to have themselves 
cryogenically frozen so they cain see that day...

				/Don

    The rivalry may still mean something to the fans, but probably is
    nothing special to the players.  Both teams have had practically 100%
    turnover from the days when the rivalry was really strong.
    
    John

>    34,000 is SOP in Fenway these days, I guess Yankee Stadium isn't quite
>    that way.

FYI Brucey-boy, last night's crowd was the biggest of the year.  But
I'm sure it was because it was a Tuesday night.  Afterall, the 3-time
AL champion A's had to play here on a WEEKEND !


Joe

    I've heard several players say that they consider their big on-field
    rival to be Oakland, if anybody.
    
    With the fans (well, most of them, anyway) the Yankees rivalry is still
    number 1.
    
    John

>    The rivalry may still mean something to the fans, but probably is
>    nothing special to the players.  Both teams have had practically 100%
>    turnover from the days when the rivalry was really strong.

There may be *some* truth to this John, but I think the players get
geared up for certain teams based on media and fan attention to those
games.  I'm sure the young, and new, Yanks feel the excitement of
this series.

This series historically has had its ups-and-downs.  When the Yanks
were fielding the greatest teams of all time in the 20's, the Red Sox
were at the bottom.  The rivalry was hot in the 40's with the great
Williams-vs-Dimaggio debates and the '49(?) down-to-the-wire pennant
race (I'll refrain from saying who won).  There was nothing to this
rivalry in the '60's either.  It was great in the '70s, but the '80s
haven't seen them both strong in the same year.

IMHO, the Boston fans are having fun "claiming" the series has lost
something..."it isn't the same playing the Yanks"...to sort of pompously
put down the Yanks, while they still can.  They all know that this is
still the series they want to win most.

You know the organiational goal:  "If you can't win it all, at least
finish ahead of the Yanks."  It still applies, from my vantage point.

The "rivalry" is probably due more to the proximity of the towns and the number
of New York fans that show up to the games.

    
    I have failed as a father figure.  When I happened to mention that I
    wanted to settle in and watch the Damn Yankees, my son says, "Ooh, is
    their concert on TV tonight?"
    
    Sheesh. (In my best Foghorn Leghorn), The boy, ah say, the boy ain't
    got a lick o' culture.
    
    Dickstah
    

Here's one Red Sox fan who still feels the rivalry is strong. I don't know
about the rest of you, but I do NOT, repeat, NOT, want to see the Yanks 
beat the Sox. I could care less if they get beat 3 straight by Seattle, but
lose 3 straight to the Yankees!! Argh, I say! Argh!! 



Steve

    
    
    
    	Sssswwwweeeeeepppppppp.....
    
    

                    <<< Note 135.139 by FDCV06::GARBARINO >>>


>IMHO, the Boston fans are having fun "claiming" the series has lost
>something..."it isn't the same playing the Yanks"...to sort of pompously
>put down the Yanks, while they still can.  They all know that this is
>still the series they want to win most.

Not me, I look at the Oakland series that's been played in wk2 
Oct as the series I'd like them to take the most.

>You know the organiational goal:  "If you can't win it all, at least
>finish ahead of the Yanks."  It still applies, from my vantage point.

God knows we haven't been able to win it all, good thing the 
other part hasn't been a problem.

daryll

�You know the organiational goal:  "If you can't win it all, at least
�finish ahead of the Yanks."  It still applies, from my vantage point.

	We've been found out!  I guess it's time to spill the beans on this 
one.  It's true.  After last season the Red Sox had a small celebratory 
gathering in the Boylston Street parking lot by the railroad tracks.  There 
were floats, champagne and guest V.I.P. speakers (Dapper O'Neil and Marge 
Claprood).  As a matter of fact I ran into Jeff Needle at the party.  
Didn't we have fun cutting the filters off Jean Yawkey's cigarettes?  It's 
absolutely true that finishing ahead of the Yankees is cause for wild 
celebrations in the street!

				/Don

    Hey /Don, when are you gonna deliver that case of Dos Eqius you owe
    me???
    
    Dan

    
    I'd be happy if the Red Sox could just finish ahead of the Yankees in a
    damned game!
    
    JD, you convinced yet that this edition of the Red Sox is a dud?
    
    glenn
    

    DAMMMIT Slasher, you know the rules, you weren't supposed to tell.  Now
    everyone will know, and after we went through ther trouble of giving
    Dinz the lobotomy when he Wardled.
    
    Did you see the look on Tollway Joe's face when I gave him a C-note to
    buy my entrance ticket?  He had a hard time giving change when it
    didn't involve quarters.
    
    As your punishment, you will be forced to attend a World Cup game, with
    Doc.  If we find out you've been showing off the secret handshake, You
    have to take Dan with you.
    
    Bruce

    I haven't replied to this topic since the last time the Yanks hammered
    the Sox....SWEEEEEEEEEPPPPPP!!!!!
    
    I guess it's true what they say..."anytime your team is in a slump,
    pray for a trip to Fenway for some easy victories"
    
    JoJ

    Cain't say I disagree, Jo*.  Too bad Boston couldn't at least give NY
    one good game.
    
    The up-side is that I believe the rivaly has been rekindled as a result
    of this.  No question, NY owns Boston this year.
    
    Mark.

>    The up-side is that I believe the rivaly has been rekindled as a result
>    of this.

At least for the Sept series.  The Yanks' early season success, coupled
with the remarks from Greenwell (and responses from Maas and Barfield)
will have this rivalry boiling when they meet next time.

For those that still don't believe it, at least this sweep is easier
to swallow given the rivalry doesn't *mean* anything.

    
    
    	I don't know what was better, the Yanks sweeping the series
    or seeing for sure that the Red Sox will not win the division,
    I mean that team quit after the 2nd inning, they lack a "Climb
    on my back I'll carry you" type guy....The jays have Carter for
    that amoungst others.....I see the Red Sox as a team on the downside
    stuck with aging players & large contracts...sort of like the Steve
    	Trout/Dave COllins yankee years....I see the Yankees as a team
    on the rise with money to pay the Griffy Jr's, Bonds, & Bobby B's....
    
    
    
    				Bob
    
    

    Glenn -
    
    The Sox will rise up in the second half, as super acquisistions Darwin,
    Young and Clark will tear the league apart.
    
    JD

    >> The Sox will rise up in the second half, as super acquisistions
    >> Darwin, Young and Clark will tear the league apart.
    
    Somebody get that Boy a ROADMAP!  JD, you in the wrong note; that
    kinda stuff b'longs in the "Optimism File" (where they could REALLY
    use it!!)
    
    - SteveT, who_happens_to_agree_with_you_based_on_the_percentages

    
    >> The Sox will rise up in the second half, as super acquisistions
    >> Darwin, Young and Clark will tear the league apart.
    
    > Somebody get that Boy a ROADMAP!  JD, you in the wrong note; that
    > kinda stuff b'longs in the "Optimism File" (where they could REALLY
    > use it!!)
    
    No, JD's just backed himself into a corner because he accused a bunch
    of Red Sox fans, who stated before the season started that this group 
    of players is a collection of stiffs, of being whining sandbaggers.
    Otherwise I expect he'd have unleashed a torrent of abuse upon these
    overpaid underachievers.  Unfortunately, I was one of those who agreed 
    with him, and now I'm having serious second thoughts...
    
    Joe, I guess at least the Yankees have something to celebrate this year
    as both clubs fade into mediocrity.  Enjoy it.
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn -
    
    Hey, I really felt this was the year the Sox had to do it.  And they
    still cain.  However - if they don't do it - they will sink deep into
    the morass of the American League - and it will be 2018 before they see
    the playoffs again.
    
    JD

    I predicted that the Yankees would finish the season at .500. That
    seemed optimistic, but now I really believe they can achieve a .500
    season.
    
    Their hitting has been clutch but inconsistent, and there are still a
    few weak spots in the field and on the mound. However, the papers and
    TV have had little or no news about Steinbrenner so no matter where
    they finish it'll be the first season in a long time that I'll actually
    enjoy.
    
    The Jays will win the east though.
    
    Joj
    JoJ

    re: -.1
    
    I wouldn't be surprised...

>    Joe, I guess at least the Yankees have something to celebrate this year
>    as both clubs fade into mediocrity.  Enjoy it.

Glenn, one team is rising to it, the other sinking...

       Spotted on a bumper sticker at Victory Market in Leominster lasted
    night:
    "I'd rather have a daughter in a Whorehouse..."
    "Than a son on the Yankees"
                                                       Denny

>    "I'd rather have a daughter in a Whorehouse..."
>   "Than a son on the Yankees"
 

 She'd probably make more money too unless of course the son was a washedup
 40 year old bum...

 ;^)

> She'd probably make more money too unless of course the son was a washedup
> 40 year old bum...

Mike, no washed-up, 40-yr old bums on the PS (post-Steinbrenner) Yankees.

    Go Yanks,  I'm still looking forward to the big parade in October!
    The Yankees are the hottest team in baseball right now, and lets
    hope they can keep it up!
    
    Glen.
    P.S.  I predict a Yankees-Mariners ALCS.  That's right you heard
    me.

    re <<< Note 135.168 by MTHOOD::JOYNERGL "Did I do that?" >>>
  >                        -< Go Yanks and Mariners! >-

  >  Go Yanks,  I'm still looking forward to the big parade in October!
  >  The Yankees are the hottest team in baseball right now, and lets
  >  hope they can keep it up!
    
  >  Glen.
  >  P.S.  I predict a Yankees-Mariners ALCS.  That's right you heard
  >  me.
    
    You must also be the prognosticator who picked Saddam Hussein over
    George Bush. Did you also pick Jeff Davis over Abe Lincoln and Barry
    Goldwater over Lyndon Johnson? How did you feel about Walter Mondale's
    chances?
    
    Rich
    

    >  The Yankees are the hottest team in baseball right now
    
    With all due respect to the progress the Yanks have made this year, I
    don't think too many people north of the border would agree with that
    statement.
    
    
    py

    I doubt that the Yankees will finish any higher than third, but they
    will be over .500 which is a MAJOR improvement.
    
    It's not so easy to blast them now that they are playing respectable
    ball and not trading away all their prospects for high priced free
    agents. 
    
    For the first time since around 1981 I'm actually watching the games
    and rooting for them
    
    JoJ
    
    
    PS - That guy with the whorehouse bumper sticker is probably hot for
    his daughter. That's why he wants her in the whorehouse, so he can
    visit her.

>    I doubt that the Yankees will finish any higher than third

3rd was a lofty goal just a few weeks ago, but:

	1-	Detroit's pitching should start to fall apart
		as the season goes on...we all know what happens
		to an old, and not-so-talented starting rotation
		in the 2nd 1/2

	2-	if Boston doesn't suck it up, they *could* have
		a horrible 2nd 1/2 (I'm talking losing record!)...
		the 3 surprises that helped carry them last year
		(Kiecker, Harris, Bolton) are reverting to career
		form...with Darwin on the shelf, after Clemens,
		this staff is a mess, and not as good as the Yanks'

2nd place is a possibility if the Yanks can ride this "high"
to the end of the season.

    Another big win last night. They actually won with pitching and
    defense!

    You don't fool me Jo*.  With 2 Seton Hall grads on the Red Sox roster I
    just know you're Wardling over to the BoSox bandwagon.  That is the
    real reason you haven't been noting in here too much lately.  You're
    too skeered to admit that you've vaned once agin.

    Mac, I think it's three ex-Pirates on the Sox...didn't Marzano also go
    to Seton Hall?
    
    
    py

    Nope.  Marzano went to Temple.  Rick Cerone went to Seton Hall.
    
    John

    The Yanks made it to .500 last night with another one-run late inning win. 
    This one was in 10 vs. the Angels, with another of the kid pitchers,
    Kamenicki, and the bullpen doing it again.
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil
    

    Hmmmm, the Sox are drafting alot of ex-Pirates, huh? Well, Mac, I'll
    tell you this; I'm rooting for the ex-SHU grads to have great seasons
    and stay in the big leagues. I"m hopefull that their individual success
    will only have a small impact on the Sox. 
    
    That way, they'll want to leave the Sox and go to the Yanks....!!!
    
    JoJ

    re .176:
    
    Thanks John...turns out I was thinking of the Houston catcher, Craig
    Biggio.
    
    
    py

    Dinz just told me that the Yanks are gonna finish ahead of the Sox this
    year, and I believe him.
    
    Big win over the A's last night. The young studmuffins on the Yankee
    pitching staff are looking real good.
    
    JoJ

>    The young studmuffins on the Yankee pitching staff are looking real good.

Kamieniecki could pitch his way into contention for Rookie of the Year.

    	Kaminecktie is something like 27 years old ain't he?  Would
    he be the oldest guy to win the RoY?
    
    				/Don

         <<< Note 135.180 by PARVAX::WARDLE "same as it ever was..." >>>

  >  Dinz just told me that the Yanks are gonna finish ahead of the Sox this
  >  year, and I believe him.
    
    So the Yanks are gonna finish 4th?

    daryll

    Jeff Johnson and Steve Farr shut out the A's last night, 3-0, to get
    the Yanks to .500 again.
    
    Redmen (Yankee) Phil

The Yanks could finish as high as 2nd (looking more possible each day).
The Red Sox ???...hey, it's an odd-number year, so they shouldn't win
the East right ?  But they're doing it in an ugly way..."that crash
and slow burn thang".

                                                                  
    Who cares, really?  Second-place and a .500 record are nice, but Yankee
    fans should be more concerned about the long-term goals of the team and 
    not lose sight of them in this off-season based on the false illusion 
    that they're already on the verge of something big.  Look at my Orioles. 
    They came from further back faster and farther than the Yankees have
    and where are they now?  Don't rush it is my advice...
    
    glenn
    

    	What a vile and disgusting display by the Yankee fans in rightfield
    on Monday night.  Thankfully Jose wasn't injured (and despite what
    was said he was DH last night so he wouldn't get killed) and was
    able to clobber a late inning homerun to beat the Yankees.
    
    				/Don

       Whattid they do Slasher? Wear their underwear on toppa their
    clothes?
                                Denny

    Yankee fans threw a blowup doll, dressed up and made up to look like
    Madonna, onto the field.
    
    Dan

    
    re -1
    
    Point for cleverness?? Typical Yankee fan reaction.  Take something the
    Red Sox fans have been doing for years and call it clever.

    Actually, I think that the Jets' fans invented the blowup doll stuff.
    
    BTW, are the Yanks still playing baseball?
    
    JoJ

�    BTW, are the Yanks still playing baseball?
    
    If you can call it that.  ~/~

    Yes, but without Mattingly.  He was benched yesterday, because he
    didn't get a haircut, as mandated by Yankmee management.
    
    He says he saw his Mom just a few days ago, and even SHE didn't tell
    him he needed a trim!
    
    Lee

       Reportedly he's axed to be traded.
                                             Denny

�       Reportedly he's axed to be traded.
    
    And he feels this led to the GM telling Stump to bench him.  And I
    thought this kind of stuff would go away with George.
    
    I guess Donbo's back is still bothering him from having to try to carry
    the Yankees.  He'd like to go someplace easier to win a pennant from. 
    With the Sox logjam at 1B, I don't think they have a spot for him ;^).

>    He'd like to go someplace easier to win a pennant from. 
>    With the Sox logjam at 1B, I don't think they have a spot for him ;^).

Easier to win a pennant ???  Boston ????

hey Macneal, can you hear my laughing ?????? !!!!!

    How's Donbo doing since he had his hair cut?

    Some guy from Staten Island paid $3K for Donbo's locks.
    
            Rich
    

    
    >    Some guy from Staten Island paid $3K for Donbo's locks.
    
    New Yorkers can never have enough locks for their doors.
    

    How much would he give if the Yanks made him cut his bagels off too
    

       They must have REALLY bad water on Staten Island!
                                       Denny

Did I hear Sox fans shouting  "GO YANKS !!"  ?

Did I hear Yanks fans shouting  "GO JAYS!!"  ?

    I apologize for saying that Kevin Maas could be the next Sam Horn. 
    Horn's BA is 80-90 points higher than Maas', and Horn has more HR. 
    Horn is 3rd in the AL in HR/AB behind Canseco and Fielder.

       Too bad the Sox caint get a guy like Horn, eh Mac?
                                 Denny  ;^)

    Denny, just keep saying Mo Vaughn and Phil Plantier over and over
    again.  You'll soon forget about Sam Horn.

He still caint hit a curve ball!




Steve

>    Denny, just keep saying Mo Vaughn and Phil Plantier over and over

Mac, Maas had a much better rookie year than either of these 2 (2nd
in RoY voting), yet he's struggled in his 2ND season.  What makes you
think these guys are so special ?

As for Maas, how can you come to some conclusions about him after one
full season ?  19 HRs and 60 rbis look pretty damn good to me.  His
batting average is definitely down (makes the HRs and RBIs look even
better), but if you look at his minor league career, he always had a
high BA.  Sounds to me like he needs to make some adjustments (just as
the pitchers did after his RECORD-SETTING first 1/2 season).

A lot of Yankee haters found nothing good about Jay Buhner and Dan
Pasqua too, but they've both developed into good ML power hitters.
Hopefully the Yanks will show patience with Maas, 'cause his swing
is made for that park (although only 6 of his 19 hrs have been in
Yankee Stadium).

    �What makes you think these guys are so special ?
    
    As you said, look at their minor league numbers.  Also both Plantier
    and Vaughn have been able to crack a lineup that has a logjam of
    1B/DH/OF types.
    
�As for Maas, how can you come to some conclusions about him after one
�full season ?  
    
    Certain Yankee fans were making for more outrageous conclusions based
    on much less data.
    
�A lot of Yankee haters found nothing good about Jay Buhner and Dan
�Pasqua too, but they've both developed into good ML power hitters.
    
    But neither were the next coming of (insert favorite yankee legend) as
    they were hyped to be.

    
    > �What makes you think these guys are so special ?
    >
    > As you said, look at their minor league numbers.  Also both Plantier
    > and Vaughn have been able to crack a lineup that has a logjam of
    > 1B/DH/OF types.
    
    Vaughn has yet to show the power that *usually* comes after the rookie
    season for most power hitters, but he's been patient and come through
    big with men in scoring position this season, even if he's not gone deep 
    a lot.  Plantier has shown remarkable patience and consistency during the 
    pressure of a pennant race, and has simply been phenomenal at the plate.
    I don't know what the general assessment of Maas was amongst Yankee
    fans last season, but to me he looked more like an inconsistent,
    all-or-nothing Yankee Stadium lefthanded power hitter than an
    all-around great hitter, one who might wait the pitcher out and draw a 
    walk on occasion but just doesn't get his bat on the ball with any 
    regularity.
    
    With the final series of the this season's Yankees-Red Sox rivalry 
    starting tonight, it's probably appropriate to honestly re-assess where 
    these teams stand.  In July we had the opinion that these two rivals 
    were closely approaching each other, but heading in opposite directions.  
    Since then, there's been a reversion closer to expectations.  In spite 
    of the glowing optimism proferred by Yankee fans towards their movement 
    to youth for the sake of youth, with which of these players does a 
    successful future lie?  No one has emerged from the collection of kid 
    pitchers, and the offense is very mediocre (the main problem still being 
    a lack of guys who get on base consistently).  I'd have to offer a 
    divergent opinion at this time and say that the Yankees have a real need 
    to *wisely* invest some money for some experience from the free-agent 
    market.  No one really seems to be emerging as top-notch players, and 
    the Brien Taylor potentials are still quite a ways off...
    
    glenn
    

>    with which of these players does a successful future lie?  No one has
>    emerged from the collection of kid pitchers,

It's much too early to make this kind of statement.  All you need to do
is look to Atlanta and see that developing pitching takes time.  How
many baseball fans got tired of hearing about all the great young arms
in that organization, while we watched them get their butts handed to
them start after start.

Taylor is a legitimate prospect, as well as Peter Gammons' favorite
Jeff Johnson.  Kamieniecki ?  I don't know.  They say this has been
a turnaround year for him.  Back problems forced him out and the
Yanks still don't know if he's legit.

I think Bernie Williams is a very good OFer, and he didn't even have
a 1/2 year at AAA.  Pat Kelly really showed the Yanks his excellent
defensive abilities, and hit pretty well.  The Yanks say these guys
are here to stay.  Both were .300 hitters throughout the minors.
Since neither are free swingers, I think they'll adjust to this level.

I think the jury's still out on Maas.  The power is definitely there,
but he's really had a hard time adjusting to the pitchers' adjustments.
His Spring Training will be very important (IMO).

I think Meulens has played his way into a reserve OFer role.  He's
hit better in the 2nd 1/2, in limited opportunities.

I do agree that they'll need to fill some holes with free agents and/or
trades.  They've tired of Espinoza, and everyone's talking about Stillwell
coming to The Bronx.  3B and another starter have to be high on the
shopping list.  The cupboard is bare as far as seasoned AAA players
(maybe catcher John Ramos will take Geren's job, and Darrin Chapin
will force out Plunk)...the next wave of young prospects were at
Albany (AA) this year.

    
     I Don't Do Baseball But I'd Like To Thank The Yanks for Helping Me Win
    A Bet.....  Looks Like The Red Sox Are Begining Their Yearly Slide A
    Bit Late This Year   

    
    > I Don't Do Baseball But I'd Like To Thank The Yanks for Helping Me Win
    >A Bet.....  Looks Like The Red Sox Are Begining Their Yearly Slide A
    >Bit Late This Year   
    
    Where ya been till now?  The "slide" actually took place a month or so
    ago when the sox were about 14 games out.  Since then they've played
    pretty good ball while the Jays have been playing just O.K. ball. 
    They've gained far more than most Sox fans expected IMO.
    
    But they're only making it close now to pi$$ me off. :-)
    
    Dickstah
    

    	The troof' is though Dickstah that winning only 5 out of 7 from
    the Yankees is cause for all Sox fans to hang their collective haids
    in shame.
    
    				/Don

Rumor on WFAN this morning that Butch Hobson may find a place for
Stump Merrill on the Boston coaching staff.  When asked about Stump
(who Hobson played for at Columbus), Hobson responded:

	"He's a good baseball man."


Maybe he'll bring back another former manager...that Gerbil guy...!!!

    Cripe, I cain see it now. Merril at first base coach, Popeye at third.
    Two duckpins spewin' terbacky juice all over the place.
    With Zim's recent troubles, I see it live!
    Sean Mcdonough:
    "Sharp base hit to left by Boggs, fielded on one hop by (insert any
    LF). Clark chugging along to third, being held up by Zip"
    A fan yells from behind the dugout " Hey Zip, I bet ya a sawbuck
    Clark cain't score" Zip looks over his shoulder " Oh yeah, you're on!"
    Sean: " Wait, Zip is waving him on! Clark is rounding third. I can't
    believe it. Here's the throw to the plate. He's out by 60 ft !"
    Zip to his wife seated next to said fan" Dearie, grab that ten and
    bet it on Gloworm in the 5th at the Rock!"
    Asked to comment on the Zim's call, the Stumper said " I thought it was
    a good call. If Clark had listened to me yesterday and gotten his
    haircut, all that wind resistance caused by that mop on his haid would
    have been negated. He'd a scored easily. Where's my spitoon?"
    
    Hobson was heard in the background " They're both good baseball men.
    That's why I hired them. Where's MY spitoon?"
    
    MikeL
     
     

    Mickey Mantle and Yogi Berra are going to be on CBS's early morning
    talk show (can't remember the name of it...CBS This Morning?) tomorrow 
    (7-9 AM Eastern time).
                     
    
    py

    The "Sports Log" in this morning's Boston Globe reports that the
    Yankees and ex-longtime Tigers play-by-play man Ernie Harwell have 
    started informal talks.   (Joe Angel's recent return to the Orioles'
    airwaves for '92 has left a vacancy in the Yanks' broadcasting booth.)
    
    
    py

    	I was listening to WFAN yesterday and the callers were all abuzz
    about the possibility of George reassuming control of the Yankees.
    You got to love it.  The same people who cheered his lifetime ban
    were calling for George to come back and take the reins.
    
    				/Don

    
    Slasher,  I think you are jumping to contusions.  Those callers were
    not the ones calling for the ban, they were the ones loudly protesting
    when George was dumped.  True Yankee fans have always loved George.
    
    Brews

    Noo Yawkas had a love/hate relationship with Steiny. When the Yanks
    won, dey loved him. When they lost, they hated him. When a class guy
    like Yogi Berra states he wants nothin' to do with the Yanks while
    George is around, it speaks volumes.
    
    Speakin' of George, I'll never forget watching a Yankee game on cable
    one night years ago just after Reggie Jackson left for the Angels.
    Jackson came to bat for the first time facing Guidry on his return
    to the Stadium. The fans were going nuts "Reggie,Reggie!" Well, in true
    dramatic form, Reggie blasted a Ruthian blast into the upper deck in
    right field. As Reggie toured the bases, the fans tumultous cheers of
    "Reggie, Reggie!" turned into louder derisions of "Steinbrenner sucks!,
    Steinbrenner sucks!". The Yankee announcers were speechless (even tho
    I'm sure Bill White and Scooter Rizzuto were chuckling to themselves).
    I'm rooolin' at home watchin' Guidry on the mound trying to hide his
    laughter with his glove in front of his face as "Steinbrenner sucks!"
    gits louder. He's laughin' so hard his shoulders were quaking!
    The best part of this was reading Steinbrenner's complaints to the
    press that Guidry enraged him (Georgie) by laughing along with the
    chant, thus embarrassing his employer. Too much!
    
    MikeL
     

    
    The Yankees are truly a sorry bunch right now, all the way from
    the top to the bottom.  The supposed master plan of going with youth
    has been a farce, actually nothing more than Steinbrenner undermining
    the team from within by refusing to allow anyone else to take charge 
    and fill some gaping holes.  I don't see much hope on the horizon, 
    until maybe Brien Taylor develops.  A potentially dominant player like 
    that can make all the difference in the world, and right now the Yanks 
    don't have one or even a number of good players to take up the slack.
                  
    Steinbrenner out in the open and trying to accomplish something
    has got to be better than him hurting the team from his position
    of exile.  Best of all would be for him to be out altogether, but...
    
    glenn
    

>    Steinbrenner out in the open and trying to accomplish something
>   has got to be better than him hurting the team from his position
>    of exile.  Best of all would be for him to be out altogether, but...
    
    anyone who can drag the Yankees down to the gutter or embaress them
    is good for baseball...

    remember Big Ed from Cheers? that's your typical yankees' fan and I
    wished that Carla hand knocked him out cold...

   ;^)
    

    
    I think it's at least two years away before Taylor makes it to the
    bigs, and a couple after that before he is a factor.  Take a look at
    Van Poppel for the A's, he's still a ways away from being ready, and
    was a bit more highly regarded than Taylor.
    
    Brews

    	Heck I think it would be great of George came back.  For one
    thing the Sox would not have been able to throw millions away on
    Matt Young because Steinbluster would've already had him on the
    Yankees.
    
    				/Don

 He'd have signed Bo too...too much publicity for his ego to pass up....

    Yanks sent Steve Sax to the White Sox this morning, in exchange for
    Melido Perez and two minor league pitchers.
    
    
    py

    Did they get enough for Sax?  What was Perez's record last season?
    
    WILDCAT

	An article in the Sunday's Globe states the reason the Yanks have been 
so niggardly with the finances the last few years, is that George and the other 
minority owners took out a 55 million dollar loan using the money they're 
supposed to receive from MSG as collateral.  Any truth to this?  What do 
the New York rags have to say?  I'm surprised that Mrs. Yawkey and the Sox 
didn't think of something like this first.

				/Don

    Figure is 100 million, since George owns 55% his share was 55 million.
    NY Times columnists were not particularly complimentary about this, but
    everyone seems to agree that nothing illegal was done even in terms of
    MLB's guidelines.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    	Phew!  It's a good thing that Buddy LeRoux still don't own the
    Sox...
    
    				/Don

    Hey Slasher, 
    
    Watch using niggardly, minority, and Mrs. Yawkey in the same note, will
    ya? (ha ha)

There's a report that he tested positive and is out for the
year.

Mike

    Fay Vincent was going to allow George Steinbrenner back into baseball
    yesterday, but after getting some inside information from the Yankees
    that George had gone against Fay's original ban and meddled in Yankee
    affairs several times during his suspension.  The decision to reinstate
    Steinbrenner is now on hold indefintely while Vincent ponders the
    evidence.

    If Vincent even thought that Manager George was not meddling he is not
    qualified for the jib he currently has.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I'm simply amazed how "lifetime" suspensions and bannings have a way of
    becoming 2 years, and 3 years, and such, whereby the "suspended" or
    "banned" person makes a return.
    
    If that's the way it's going to be, then the name of the "sentence"
    should be changed to reflect the true situation.
    
    Lee

    Lee, it's basically a life sentence with a chance at parole ;^)

    	I think it would be great to see Herr Steinbrenner back with
    the Yankees.  8^)
    
    				/Don

    re: .241
    
    Ya mean so he could sign another Reggie Jackson and trade for another
    Bucky Dent? :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    	Gabe Paul made the Yankees what they were, not Steinbluster.

    re: .243
    
    Up to a point. Paul made some great trade, Chambliss, Rivers, and some
    others. But, Steinbrenner signed Hunter, Gossage, Jackson. Much as I
    dislike the Yankees and would like to see Steinbrenner's life sentence
    upheld I gotta give him some credit for the Yankee teams of 1976-78.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Hey Jack Clark still likes Steinbrudder.
    Mebbe if George comes back, we can trade Jack the Stiffer back
    to the Yanks.
    
    
    

    I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet:
    
    It's Official!  George will be allowed back in the Yankees' front
    office nexted year.

    re: .246
    
    Any conditions attached??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I sincerely feel sorry for the Yankee fans.  It'll be "business as
    uaual."  That means cyanara to the youngsters and prospects and no
    reason to believe they'll be in contention any time soon.
    
    It's too bad, because they were heading in the right direction.
    
    
    Spud

    I didn't hear any of the details, TCM, just a quick blurb on a sports
    report.

Hey Spud!  How goes it?????


The report I heard did not mention any conditions.   Hell, if they can
let George back in, then it's time to induct Shoeless Joe into the HoF.

Joe Jackson did far more for the game of baseball than George ever did...


'Saw

    re the last few:
    
    Steinbrenner's official return is effective March 1st.  I've heard
    nothing about any "conditions".
    
    
    py                                           

I wonder if Steinbrenner's return will have any affect on the Pete Rose
situation.   I mean, weren't they both "banned for life" ?

Chap

>I wonder if Steinbrenner's return will have any affect on the Pete Rose
>situation.   I mean, weren't they both "banned for life" ?

Yeah, but old George probably had a_asterisk next to his....

< Note 135.253 by CAMONE::WAY "Need a remedy for what's ailin' me" >


�Yeah, but old George probably had a_asterisk next to his....

Maybe ole Pete will get a Presidential Pardon :-)

Chap

>I wonder if Steinbrenner's return will have any affect on the Pete Rose
>situation.   I mean, weren't they both "banned for life" ?

The Idiot chose his lifetime ban.  Vincent's original suspension
was for 2 years.

>              -< Buck Showalter to move on and succeed elseware >-

Manager firings and Steinbrenner go hand-in-hand, and, of course, this
is one Yankee fan who's concerned about the continuation of that trend.
The only reason for hope is that last fall, when Michael wanted to hire
Pat Corrales, Yankee ownership (ie: Steinbrenner of course) stepped in
and forced him to give the job to Showalter.  It's been reported in NYC
papers that Steinbrenner loves Showalter, and the two sides are close
to a contract extension.


>    I sincerely feel sorry for the Yankee fans.  It'll be "business as
>    uaual."  That means cyanara to the youngsters and prospects

Don't feel sorry for us Spud.  Everything turns around eventually,
and Yankee fans are not know to be gracious winners.

On the surface, this is the most obvious expectation.  But Spud, are
we Yankee fans better off now (without him), than we were with him ?
At times it has appeared that since he's not allowed to play the game,
he's picked up his ball and gone home (ie: and no one can play).
Most of the media believe that Tartabull was signed only because
Steinbrenner thought he was coming back during Spring Training.
Until that point the Yanks had made no attempt to sign a free agent
(they needed pitching badly), and they were regarded as a farce at
the Winter Meetings (the left hand didn't know what the right hand
was doing).

I believe some minor leaguers will be traded to acquire the ML
pitching this club needs (it could happen soon...Maddux ?, Abbott ?).
But Steinbrenner's positive impact has always been in the free agent
market, and what better year for him to return than this one, just
in time to pick among the best talent ever available ?  There are
nearly a dozen players who can demand very big money, but there aren't
a dozen teams out there to give it to them.  With the Yanks' relatively
modest payroll (which gets smaller with Hall's, Barfield's and Sanderson's
contracts expiring), The Idiot will be in a position to dominate this
free agent season (yeah, you better hope Kirby really does have loyalty
to Minnesota).

So I think they will be in contention over the short-term.  It's the
long-term outlook that doesn't look bright (unless he turns it over
to someone else in a few years).



BTW Spud, did you see that the ML managers voted Don Mattingly as
the best defensive 1B in the AL (again) ?  He turned an incredible
DP yesterday (on a sacrifice attempt).

    I've heard a couple of rumors suggesting that Showalter might be
    amenable to being wooed by Denver.  anyone hear this one?
    
    MikeL
    

>    amenable to being wooed by Denver.  anyone hear this one?
    
      What a hussy!

Showalter seems to be the brightest spot for the Yanks this season.  Haven't 
heard anything bad said about him by any Yankee fan I know.

>    I've heard a couple of rumors suggesting that Showalter might be
>    amenable to being wooed by Denver.  anyone hear this one?

When Showalter was asked about these rumors he said (something like):

	"I have no desire to go anywhere else.  This stuff (the rumors)
	 is the creation of the media.  I would like nothing better than
	 to be the one who brings a championship to the Yankees, and gets
	 Don Mattingly into post-season play (like all the other Yankee
	 greats)."

I heard Bucky Showalter woke up lasted night, in a cold sweat, he had a 
dream, where a George Steinbrenner, dressed like Tarzan, swung through the
trees, looking for him, singing:

  "George, George, George of the Yankees
   Look out for that Axe
   George, George, Georeg of the Yankees
   Bucky gonna be set free..."

JD

                   <<< SHANE::USER2:[YANKEE]YANKEE.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< Conference of Champions >-
================================================================================
Note 59.578              1992 Regular Season Discussion               578 of 578
FDCV06::GARBARINO                                     8 lines  24-JUL-1992 13:42
                           -< Steinbrenner's back. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's official.  The Commissioner's office declared today that Steinbrenner
can resume the managing general partner position on March 1, 1993.
Between now and then, the July 30, 1990 agreement is still in effect.
Steinbrenner can request permission to get involved in business or
financial issues.

The last sentence is the key:  look for him to be allowed to negotiate
with free agents this fall.

 Bonds in Pinstripes?   Bonds, Kelly, Tartabull. that's a nice outfield....

 I'm glad to see George back. Baseball's too boring to us who aren't purist.
 
 mike

    Joe G,
    
    All I'm saying is that the revolving door has been well oiled with The
    Idiot's return.  He may "love" Bucky now, but if he starts off 6-10
    next spring, his outside opportunities will increase tremendously. 
    Can't fault Bucky though, he has no pitching.  Probably the biggest
    reason teams like the Yankees, Mets and others who seriously spend in
    the free agency market don't succeed is lack of continuity.  There is so 
    much change and instability that nothing stays set for very long.  The
    Yankees alone have new starters at 2B, SS, 3B and two OF's? this year.
    
    Look at how the White Sox (and Red Sox) and handling things with a new
    manager.  There is a period of adjustment and changing managers and
    players constantly rarely pays off.  (Notice I said rarely, because
    there are exceptions)
    
    Finally, no surprise on the Mattingly nomination.  Those awards (Gold
    Glove, etc) are a lot like the Pro Bowl elections, built on past
    reputations.  From what I saw of Donbo a few weeks ago in NY, and if
    you're serious that he's not hurt, he's lost a step or two and I'd take
    Hrbek over him without question.  Still like him a lot, though.
    
    
    Spud

    Good point about continuity Spud. Mets have a reasonably solid team.
    The best thing for them would be to leave it mostly intact for next
    season. Murray, Bonilla, HoJo, etc. have not had a chance to jell. The
    wildcard of course is where Cone ends up. Otherwise I hope the Mets
    plug some holes but stay out of the mega free agent market in 1992.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    reason teams like the Yankees, Mets and others who seriously spend in
>    the free agency market don't succeed is lack of continuity.  There is so 
>    much change and instability that nothing stays set for very long.  The
>    Yankees alone have new starters at 2B, SS, 3B and two OF's? this year.

Spud, I agree that continuous change probably does more harm than good.
But this argument certainly doesn't apply to the Yanks of the last 2 years
(ie: since The Idiot's suspension).  And the changes at 2B, SS, 3B and ONE
OF position should be looked upon as positives because they're rebuilding,
not just reshuffling.

But change IS necessary.  Look at your beloved Twins.  Morris, Smiley,
Aguilera, Tapani, Pags/Leius, Knoblaugh, Mack, Davis, Munoz, Krueger,
Kipper, Erickson...none of these guys were on the '87 team that won
the WS.  Yet the Twins won it again last year and are contenders this
year.  They're fortunate to have a good manager, and one of the best
players of our time (Puckett) to build around.

Despite all of the change during the '80s, the Yanks were always
competitive.  So change may not been the reason for their failures
as much as The Idiot himself was.

    Don't know if this was reported yet in the Olympics topic, but
    Steinbrenner reportedly offered to pick up the medical school tuition
    for the US swimmer whose father died of a heart attack during the
    Olympic opening ceremonies.  Apparently, the swimmer (whose name
    escapes me) gave up his medical school scholarship to compete in the
    Olympics.  He swims a 200 meter race today.
    
    Steinbrenner's stock went skyrocketing in my book.  Nice gesture.
    
    Mark.

    George can be a sweetheart of a guy.  Read some of the books about the
    Yankees in the last 15 years.  But he more than makes up for his nice
    gestures by continually treating people (from secretaries on up) like
    dirt and then trying to "buy" back their loyalty.  Deep down I think he
    knows he treats people bad and can't help it, so he trys to compensate.
    I have a feeling it's related to the tough relationship he had with his
    father.
    
    
    Spud

Sweetheart my eye! Steinboob's PR department thought it would
be a nice gesture, seeing how he's involved with the Olympics
and all and has fallen from grace in the past several years 
with the Yankee thang. JMHO


Steve

>                               -< Good PR move. >-

I can see this being a personally-driven PR move, but the facts are
the facts and This Idiot has a track-record of doing these types
of "nice guy" things.  John Candelaria and Tommy John were recipients
of Steinbrenner generousity in the past.

    
    Well Joe if even you believe that Steinboob has a nice streak
    in him, I guess I believe it too. I stand corrected, nice move
    George.
    
    
    
    Steve

     Pity the poor Yankees unable even to buy a contender these
    days. Player after player turning them down and taking less 
    money to play elsewhere, with the exception of Steve Howe whose
    judement has always been suspect anyways. Could it be that the
    times they are a changin' ? The glitz and glamour of the Big 
    Apple are overshadowed by the crime, the overcrowding, the ex-
    pense and the pressure of New York. Probably. In terms of liva-
    bality New York has to rank fairly low amongst American cities
    although no doubt it has some very nice `burbs. But if your 
    family has to risk life and limb to see you play is it worth it ?
    When you're talking about the difference between 6.5 and 7.5 mill-
    ion clams is the extra mil worth the extra headaches. More and more 
    players obviously don't think so and it just breaks this Red Sox fan's
    heart.
    

While I wouldn't mind if the Yankees became a new 'Cleveland Indian' organization
and finished last all the time, I wonder how much the issues you raise, Tommy,
would affect your average MLB millionaire.  Okay, the press would give them
all types of pressure, and the fans at the game might boo lustily  -  but
isn't the Boston press the same - life under a microscope.

For a millionaire ballplayer, you could live in some of the nicest surburban
areas in the country.  You wouldn't live in Bedford-Stuversent or teh South
Bronx - no different from the fact that a Boston baseball millionaire wouldn't live
in the Roxbury projects, or an L.A. baseball millionaire in South Central L.A.

What troubles would a millionaire's family have in attending the games?  They
wouldn't take the subway there, right?   

I think the spectre of George Steinbrenner is a big reason for folks not wanting
to play in New York.    If the Yankees become a contender (bonafide, of course)
in the next few years, I wouldn't be surprised if some big name free agents
would want to play there.

I think there will always be pressures in the big media markets for big bucks
free agents to produce gaudy numbers.  

You mention risking life and limb - have any Yankee ballplayers had a loved one
lose their life or a limb watching them play ITHTRB?

JD

    
    
        Well Tommy,
    
                 Sounds like a consumate Red Sox fans mindset to me. How
    can you even talk about NY in that vain when your favorite team plays
    in the most prejudice City in the US? I don't see too many big name
    Free Agents lining up along Yawkey Way. Unless they are over 35. Woops
    I forgot about Clark and Young I'm sorry.  
    
                Coming from a person who has lived in NY, you have been
    believing what you read again haven't you. You have got about the same
    chance of getting murdered in NY as you do in Boston, unless your in a
    crack house or your running your mouth off to the wrong people in the
    wrong place. I'd rather take a Subway through the Bronx at 3 AM than
    walk through south Roxbury at the same time.
    
           But than again you Sox fans know all about NY.
    
    Chappy (I wouldn't trade Tartabull for Young,Clark Calderon and Dawson)

    Tommy,
    
    Actually NY is fairly high - higher than even I would have expected -
    in livability rating. The real problem the Yankees have is Steinbrenner
    coming back in March. Mets never had the problem of agents using them to
    bid up a contract.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

      re. .275
    
      A *real* Sox fan would never have written that note.
    
    
      re .276
    
      Chappy, I ain't saying Boston is Utopia just stating the facts as 
      I see `em though my judgement may be a bit tainted. And I ain't the
      only one believing what he's read because I used to live on the
      border of the South End and South Roxbury and it's not nearly as bad
      as the image suburbanites have of it. And if you plan on taking a
      train through the Bronx at 3 AM any time soon please name me as bene-
      ficiary on the offchance that some ill should be fall you. 
    
      BTW - New York isn't exactly a shining example of excellent race
            relations ask the family of Yuseff Hawkins. And true fact, 
            according to the NAACP Chicago is the most racist city in 
            America.
            
    
       re .277
    
        TCM, thank you for that timely and informative note.
        

    .276...   ...makes me yearn for Ras.

Tommy -

A real Sox fan that has lived in NYC (Bronx) and in Boston (Mission Hill), and 
not one who hasn't, would write that note.   Read the first line.

Race relations are not good in NYC, as they aren't in Boston, L.A., Chicago
Detroit, etc....

Just about every city I've ever spent time in has areas that aren't too
safe to be in.  (No matter whay your race...)

JD

    Rejected free agents and George Steinbrenner or not, look for the Yankees 
    to be much better than the Red Sox for years to come.  At least some of
    the plethora of GMs working for Steinbluster have a clue...
    
    As for the environment in New York, I'll refer to the guy who played
    NYC's police commissioner on SNL and say that no, New York is not
    the #1 crime city in the country, just #1 in certain overrated crime
    categories, like where a complete stranger kills another complete 
    stranger... ;-)
    
    glenn
      

    
    Teams and events in NY get great coverage because a large part of the
    media is based in NY. So the flip side of getting attention for their
    teams, events, etc is that crimes - especially spectacular ones - get
    much greater coverage.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    re .280
    
    I hear what you're saying, JD and it has merit. I'm just taking a lot
    of pleasure in people rejecting the Yanks. And one of them, Maddux, did
    cite his fear of the city as the reason he rejected the Yanks.
    
    
    
    

    Boston has oft been criticized for being a lousy environment for
    professional athletes and their families (especially black atheletes)
    to live and work.  Tommy raises a legitimate question.  Why is Boston
    singled out?  As JD mentioned, similar problems are found in other big
    cities such as NY and LA.

    	Heard on SportsCenter last Sunday...  "The Yankees have been
    turned down more often than a prom date with a bad case of acne"
    
    				/Don

Tommy -
I'm overjoyed theYanks didn't get BOnds or Maddux.  I'd have hated to go home
during Christmas and have to listen to my Yankee fan relatives start calling
them the new Whitey Ford/Mickey Mantle ;-)

JD

    Yanks just signed ex-Red Sox Wade Boggs to play 3B the next 2-3 years, or 
    until Russell Davis is ready.  Teh deal was $11m for 3 years.  The word 
    here in NY is that the Yankees will now go after Ron Darling and Reuben 
    Sierra.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Bestill my beating heart. This should be a joyous moment for every Mets
    fan.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    The Yanks could sign Babe Ruth, but if they don't find some more
    starting pitching, it ain't gonna help.
    
    
    Spud

    
    
    Yeah Spud.
    ABBOT
    Key
    and M.Perez are 3 slouches aren't they. 
    

re -1

Guess he didn't like the Boggs signing...

    
    > The Yanks could sign Babe Ruth, but if they don't find some more
    > starting pitching, it ain't gonna help.
    
    By 1995, maybe even 1994, the Yankees will have 2-4 studs named
    Sterling Hitchcock, Domingo Jean, Mark Hutton and Brien Taylor in their
    rotation with Jim Abbott and whoever pans out from what they've got
    now (Perez, Militello, Wickman, etc.).  The Red Sox would have traded 
    guys like this for 32-year-old middle relievers by now.  If Yankee fans 
    can hold out for just another year or two, I think good things are on the 
    horizon.
    
    Wade Boggs made a smart decision on what team he should play for.  He
    would have gotten shut down in Dodger Stadium, but staying in the AL in
    Yankee Stadium gives him a fighting chance.  I'm not a vindictive person.
    If the Yankees do what I think they're capable of in 1994-95, he's
    going to be a winner again, and I'll root for him to succeed personally
    (of course if the Yanks do succeed, the parochial Fenway Faithless will 
    claim that Boggs had nothing to do with it, the Yanks won in spite of 
    him, etc., etc., just like they did when he played in Boston).  The guy 
    deserved a better farewell than he got from Boston, where eccentricity 
    or anything else even slightly out of the norm are torn down and 
    desecrated ad nauseum.  Anything that Boggs does to highlight the 
    incompetence in the Red Sox' front office is okay by me.  Go get 'em, Wade!
    
    glenn
    
                                                                    

    Yankees?!  Ha!  Good eye, Tommy.  All I saw was the "Sick 
    of it All."

Tommy -
Hmmm.  IN USA TODAY, they have a picture, and a story about the killing, and
he clearly has a "Sick Of It All" sweatshirt (and the story mentions it) -
I guess Sick of It All is a rock group, and Lo reportedly was starting to
turn to some Skinhaid type behaviour (including da hairdo...)

The Globe probably airbrushed the Yankees onto the sweatshirt ;-)

JD

    That's what I saw Tommy (Sick of it all)...
    
    They put it on the front page because one of the people killed was
    from Gloucester.

    >> The guy deserved a better farewell than he got from Boston, where 
    >> eccentricity or anything else even slightly out of the norm are torn 
    >> down and desecrated ad nauseum.  
    
       Boston's alleged aversion to "eccentricity or anything else evem
       slightly out of the norm" had nothing to do with Wade getting the
       boot. As long as he was hitting .360 he could have bit the heads 
       off of live chickens and no one would have cared. He got it for 
       the same reason that Evans and Rice got it. He gave the Sox and 
       their fans a lot of good years but he'd worn out his usefulness so 
       good-bye. 
    
                                                                    
    
    

    I beg to differ, Tommy.  You simply have to look in SPORTS and RED_SOX
    to see that people weren't happy with "Wade the selfish slap singles
    hitter".  If you want more, listen to the talk shows and read the
    papers.  Wade's biggest sin was not being a homerun hitter.

    
       > Boston's alleged aversion to "eccentricity or anything else evem
       > slightly out of the norm" had nothing to do with Wade getting the
       > boot.
    
    This particular comment was in reference to the Boston "fans", not
    specifically the organization.  It's typical of the Boston fandom and
    media to accentuate such faults if a player hasn't produced in, oh, the 
    last two weeks or so...
    
       > He got it for 
       > the same reason that Evans and Rice got it. He gave the Sox and 
       > their fans a lot of good years but he'd worn out his usefulness so 
       > good-bye. 
         
    Apparently Boggs wore out his usefulness much quicker than either of
    these players in the eyes of the organization.  Boggs hit over .330 
    in 1991!  Rice's last decent year was 1986, and he didn't depart until 
    1989.  Evans held up better, but was 4-5 years older than Boggs and 
    had major injury problems that prevented him from playing the field for 
    almost an entire year before he was let go.
    
    I don't have a problem with the Red Sox parting ways with Wade Boggs.
    However, almost entirely out of an attitude to be rid of him at all
    costs, they refused to even offer him arbitration so that they'd at 
    least get some compensation in return.  I don't believe for a minute 
    that this was a detached, unemotional baseball decision.  But even if 
    it was, I'm still not going to join the lynch mob that has descended 
    upon Boggs with a vengeance after one bad year following ten good and 
    mostly great ones.  Half of these hypocrites won't understand why Boggs
    holds a grudge against Boston if and when he rebounds on his way to 3000
    hits and the Hall of Fame.  They'll consider an insult that Boggs will
    want to stick it to them...
    
    glenn
    
                                                    

    Regarding Yankee pitching:
    
    Abbott is a fine young pitcher and should be a solid #1 starter.  Will 
    he hold up in the NY pressure?  I hope so.  But in my opinion, at this 
    stage of their careers, Key and Perez are nothing more than .500 pitchers, 
    give or take a game.  That's an awful lot of pressure you're putting on 
    the youngsters to win.
    
    Glenn, the Yanks may be grooming some bright young pitching prospects
    (and that's all you can ask) but there are too many "David West's" out
    there and even Todd Van Poppel's who either don't pan out or get hurt.
    What I'm saying is not to bank on becoming a contender with prospects.
    
    
    Spud  

    
    >>The Yanks could sign Babe Ruth, but if they don't find some more
    >>starting pitching, it ain't gonna help.
    
    Spud,
    
    signing Ruth now wouldn't help anyways, hell, he's been daid fer what,
    50 years????
    
    JaKe