Conference 7.286::sports_91

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    No, the argument's settled now.  All the vitriolic moany woany whining
    about how the refs spin things Notre Dame's way are forever silenced
    with the clipping call on Rocket Raghib Ismael's breathtaking run back.
    
    And as far as the hoops go ain't never been any argument that Digger is
    a total bum who's wasted more talent than even the likes of BayWhine or
    Stompshim or even the ultimate... 'Snuffy Smif'.
    
    MrT

    There are many reasons for a Playoff System and few against it. 
    Meanwhile, the NCAA can arrogantly turn a deaf ear to the outcry for
    such as system.
    
    I believe that if Notre Dame wanted a Playoff System, we would have
    one.  But I also believe that no one benefits more from "opinions"
    deciding things than Notre Dame, meaning to institute a playoff system
    would be in effect shooting themselves in the foot.
    
    Dan

    That's right Dan, let's hear you back up your statements with the usual
    barrage of bias(I meant facts). But welcome again,the fun begins!
    
    Mr.T.
     What's ND's basketball record now? Sunk to new lows? Bring back Johnny
     Dee.
    
    MikeL
    

A real bummer of a story in today's National concerning Chris Zorich.  After 
playing one of his best games in the Orange Bowl and speaking to his Mom on the 
phone directly afterwards, he arrived home in Chicago on Wednesday to find her 
dead in her apartment, aparently of "natural causes".  My heart goes out to him.


Scott

    A real tragic story on Zorich,he was so devoted to his mom after his
    father abandoned the family in 1969. The Boston Herald reports that
    Zorich"busted through a bathroom window ans saw her body in the hall"
    then rushed to her side "I just looked at her,gave her a kiss and said,
    'Bye,Mom. I love you.'" he said. 
    
    Sad,real sad. There was nobody on the Irish football team or any
    student on campus who was more respected than Zorich. He gave 150%
    on the field, was a consummate team man,and was the gentlest soul
    around the campus. I hope he can find solace and strength through the
    Notre Dame community as he has in the past.
    
    A personal observation. After the Penn St- ND game that I attended.
    I watched Zorich sit down by himself,head in hands,on the ND bench
    as the Nittany Lions celebrated. None of the ND student body moved
    as the remainder of the Irish team and the Penn St team filed off
    the field. After the players had went through the tunnel, Zorich
    slowly got off the bench, and walked towards the tunnel,head down.
    At that moment, the entire ND student body gave Zorich a tremendous
    standing ovation in defeat. I've never witnessed a more touching
    moment in all the times I have been in that stadium. Respect.
    
    
    MikeL 
                                 

    I am truly sorry to hear about the death of Zorich's mother.  May she
    rest in peace.
    
    But, please, please, please, let's not get the Notre Dame hype machine
    all pumped up again.   I can just see them cranking those wheels trying
    to come up with all sorts of new twists to the old George Gipp "Gipper"
    legend.   You just know that The Little Weasel will be holding a press
    conference any day now to announce that they're going to "Win One For
    Chris' Mom" next year.
    
    Am I cynical about Notre Dame ???  Hell, yes.   Don't bet against them 
    doing it, though.
    
    Bob Hunt

    That's pretty low,Bob. And I thought you had some class.
    
    
    MikeL
    

No, actually Bob has a point.

If Zorich hadn't been profiled in SI, and the airbrush of the national
limelight been used to touch up the picture of his life, he wouldn't
be any different than any one else.

There's a bunch of folks out there right now who are close to their
parents, have lived a life of hardship, and then have had a parent
die.  Hell, there's a guy on the Wanderers who was out playing
two days after they buried his mother...nobody knew about that except
us guys on the team....

I can feel for Zorich as I would for anyone who has lost a parent,
but more than that, forget it...

'Saw

    Bingo.   Lots of people died the day after the Orange Bowl.  A couple
    of Palestinians, a couple of the homeless, some AIDS victims, some drug
    abusers, some drunk driving victims, and so on ... including Zorich's
    mom.
    
    I'd love to see Notre Dame someday play to "Win One For The Homeless"
    or something similar.  I ain't holding my breath waiting for it,
    though.
    
    I was watching the news out of Atlanta the other day and I saw a story
    about a young security guard who was killed by a drunk driver.  This
    driver had had *SIX* previous DUI convictions before this accident and
    had just gotten his license back two weeks ago after a 10 year
    suspension.  
    
    The victim was supposed to get married in a couple of weeks.  His
    fiancee was in big time tears.   Gut wrenching, to say the least.
    
    *THAT* is the guy I feel sorry for.  Drunk driving is a national
    disgrace.   It's a far more important issue than Notre Dame and its
    hype machine.  I'm sorry you think I'm low and classless.   I wish
    you'd open your eyes a bit, though.  Notre Dame is not the perfect
    world you often consider it to be.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    Good thought there, Caveman...I mean Hawk.
    

Oh, yeah, I didn't intend to belittle Zorich's tragedy, instead I 
was just trying to put it in some kind of perspective.

Elvis the Caveman did make it as far as BMF, however.  I was ROLLING.

In fact, there's a facsimile on our refrigerator door right now.

What I'd really like to know is whether or not the lady with the 
face of a teenager who's 91 (helluva airbrush job I'll tell ya)
is gonna be Elvis' opening act.

And speaking of Elvis, the radio station I listen to the most,
99 Rock WPLR has Elvis do station breaks for them.  His one for
the holidays has been super:

	Don't drink and drive...and don't do drugs and sit on
	the crapper either!

'Saw

    
    Elvis the Caveman made it here also, where he sat on the wall for all
    to see after everyone scurried to my cube to see what I was laughing so
    hard about while tears trickled from the corners of my crows-footed
    eyes.  From there he went home, also to be posted on the refrigerator
    and shown to insurancemen, bill collectors, Jehovah's Witnesses,
    Process Servers, and anyone else who happened by.  He has since gone to
    Graceland (that is, gracing the inside of some dumpster.)
    
    For those who don't know what Elvis the Caveman is/was, it was a
    tabloid story about some archeologist who dug up this ancient skull,
    and by studying and reconstructing the facial features, concluded that
    he looked remarkably like Elvis.  
    
    The "photo" of the reconstruction was most assuredly The King himself,
    standing there with his saber tooth tiger skin clothes, and holding a
    primitive stone axe like it was a microphone.  The authenticated
    reconstruction also showed this primitive swivel-hips complete with
    clean shaven face, thick sideburns, and perfect pompodour.
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH (tm)
    
    Dickstah
    

Well, through the miracle of retouched photography, I've proven that this
caveman is actually a slightly younger Ken Olsen.  Anyone who doesn't believe
me can drop by and take a look.

j.

    
    > Bingo.   Lots of people died the day after the Orange Bowl.  A couple
    > of Palestinians, a couple of the homeless, some AIDS victims, some drug
    > abusers, some drunk driving victims, and so on ... including Zorich's
    > mom.
    
    Except there was no attempt in here to place Zorich or his mother on a
    pedestal, nor was there a press conference by Holtz, nor was there 
    any "win-one-for-Chris'-mom"-type publicity coming out of Notre Dame,
    or anything else of that nature.  *You*, however, used reports of the 
    death to hammer on Notre Dame.  I think that's going to far.
    
    The only things I've seen are simple, to-the-point reports that the same
    man who was weeping uncontrollably in front of Lee Corso during an
    interview after a defeat in the Orange Bowl in his last college game
    came home and found his mother dead.  That put things in perspective
    for me and kind of sent a shiver down my spine when I heard about it, 
    and only partly because I'd already read all the stories of the special
    relationship that Zorich had with his mother.
    
    glenn
    
    

    Re; Zorich .11
    
    Bob,
    	I know many things are more important than Zorich's mother,etc.
    I DO open my eyes and have admitted that ND is not perfect and
    makes mistakes. What I considered low and classless on your part was
    automatically thinking that ND would hype this beyond trying to help
    out bZorich. I never even thought of that aspect. I simply stated 
    a fact regarding a tragic sports-related story,without involving  
    world problems. I should have stated that I considered your
    statements regarding 'hype" classless and not you personally. For 
    implying a personal attack, I was wrong and apologize. I don't
    apologize for considering your statements classless. 
    
    
    MikeL
     
    

  �  Except there was no attempt in here to place Zorich or his mother on a
  �  pedestal, nor was there a press conference by Holtz, nor was there 
  �  any "win-one-for-Chris'-mom"-type publicity coming out of Notre Dame,
  �  or anything else of that nature.  *You*, however, used reports of the 
  �  death to hammer on Notre Dame.  I think that's going to far.
   
 True in some ways; false in others.  You are correct that Notre Dame has
 not *yet* cranked up its well-oiled hype machine.   My comments merely
 said that this sad tragedy is *EXACTLY* the type of heartbreaking incident
 that Notre Dame has successfully used in the past to publicize itself
 quite shamelessly.   Rockne, Gipp, and so on.
    
 And I was hoping that they would somehow resist the temptation this time. 
 Of course, somehow I don't believe they will and that, Glenn, is the
 single solitary "hammer" in this incident that I have wielded.   
     
    � That put things in perspective for me and kind of sent a shiver down
    � my spine when I heard about it,  and only partly because I'd already
    � read all the stories of the special relationship that Zorich had with
    � his mother.
 
 And you think all these stories about Zorich and his mom just appeared out
 of thin air by magic, right ???   That it was pure lucky chance that you
 had the opportunity to read all about this young boy and his devotion to
 his mother, may she rest in peace ...
 
 Glenn, I ***LOVE*** my mom.  Where are all the news stories about me and
 my mother ???  If I go home for the holidays and I find my mom dead in the
 house, will the New York Times come down to interview me ???   Will CBS
 send a camera crew to film my tears ???   Will I be Ted Koppel's guest
 that night ???
 
 He's got a hype machine behind him.  The rest of us don't.  Pure and
 simple.   
 
 Bob Hunt

 � What I considered low and classless on your part was automatically
 � thinking that ND would hype this beyond trying to help out bZorich. 
 
 I automatically thought it because they've automatically done it in the
 past.   If that's low or classless, then so be it.   I've been around long
 enough to know better, though.
 
 � I never even thought of that aspect.
 
 Maybe next time you will.
 
 Bob Hunt

Sorry Bob but you are wrong. 

If and when ND dedicates next year to Zorich's mom you can get on your pedestal
and rag on ND. Until then you don't have a leg to stand on in this conversation.

It was a simple story of what happened to him after the Orange Bowl. ND hasn't
cranked out any hype about it at all.

Where were you last year when CU was using the death of Sal Anuse as a hype and
motivation ? Or does this sort of thing only happen to ND?

If and when Bob....you're jumping to conclusions on this one.


Metz

    Obviously Bob, you think ND without any moral fiber and strictly
    a selfless,always self-promoting machine. Sorry,IMHO you are
    dead wrong,wrong,wrong. I was offended by your statements and
    attitude,that's why I reacted the way I did.
    
    
    Nothing personal,
    MikeL
    

    � Where were you last year when CU was using the death of Sal Anuse as
    � a hype and motivation ? Or does this sort of thing only happen to ND?
    
    Don't get me started on Colorado now.   Over the holidays, I noticed
    that my father was reading a copy of Buffs' coach McCartney's new book
    called "Ashes To Glory" or something like that.   I asked him where he
    got it and he said a friend lent it to him.
    
    I read about a chapter or two before I put it down.  I can respect
    McCartney and his religious convictions and all that but this guy is
    just plain thumping his Bible and treating his job as football coach
    like he's got a pulpit or something.
    
    A whole chapter, it seemed like, on his visits to Sal Aunese's deathbed
    begging and pleading with poor Sal to accept Christ as his savior. 
    Finally, through all the tubes, dials, machines, and impending death,
    Aunese consents and McCartney calls it his greatest victory ever and
    that the Buffs would be set for a "Golden Season".    Before that, all
    the prayers and knee-bending over his daughter's illegitimate baby. 
    And before that a lot of pissing and moaning about the SI articles.
    
    Just one long prayerbook, if you ask me.   Turned me way off.
    
    Bob Hunt

   � Obviously Bob, you think ND without any moral fiber and strictly
   � a selfless,always self-promoting machine. 
    
    Completely false, of course.   Where did I ever say that Notre Dame
    lacked moral fiber (whatever *that* is) ???   
    
    For the record, I think Digger Phelps is the perfect basketball coach
    for Notre Dame.  He may not win as many games as people want him to but
    he is completely clean and honest and runs a model program.   He is
    completely above reproach and that is most admirable in a college hoops
    coach.
    
    As for the "self-promoting machine", I'll let their mega-million-dollar
    individual contract with NBC to televise all their football games on a
    nationwide basis speak for me.
    
    Try not to be offended by other people's words.  It's called free
    speech.
    
    Bob Hunt

                                                    
 > Glenn, I ***LOVE*** my mom.  Where are all the news stories about me and
 > my mother ???  If I go home for the holidays and I find my mom dead in the
 > house, will the New York Times come down to interview me ???   Will CBS
 > send a camera crew to film my tears ???   Will I be Ted Koppel's guest
 > that night ???
    
    And if you happened to have a story to tell, or were for some reason
    well known, would there be something wrong with any of this (not that 
    anything remotely close to this has or will happen to Zorich, 
    but just to go along with your outlandish exaggerations...)?  It's 
    called human interest. Just as you have suggested that others shouldn't
    be offended by your opinions, is a brief mention on ESPN or a one-liner
    in the notes section of your sports page really too much to take?
    
    Listen, I consider myself a cynic from way back (including about Notre
    Dame), but this particular case is beyond even my comprehension.  Can't 
    anything ever be good in its own sake, without having to be connected 
    to money or public relations?  Isn't it possible in hearing this sad 
    story to feel, maybe for just a second, for Zorich, without immediately
    connecting him to the team he played for, a team you don't like?  It's
    not logical to assume that because Zorich's mother received a brief
    mention that someone else in the world *must* be getting cheated, you
    know.  If anything, the opposite just might be true...
    
    glenn
     

    
    Really sickening stuff Bob.
    
    
    
    
    Steve_excersising_his_free_speech

    Okay, let's put this to rest right here and now, okay ???
    
    If you go back and read my original note on this, the very first thing
    I said was I felt bad for Chris Zorich and I wished his mom well in the
    next world.  So, yes, I do have a heart.  Not that anyone should have
    to prove that.
    
    Second thing was I *HOPED* out loud that Notre Dame would resist
    cranking out the hype.   I didn't say they did do it.  I said I hoped
    they wouldn't.   For the most part, they did not.   It seemed like a
    fairly low key thing and was off the wires pretty quickly.   Notre Dame
    handled this one just fine.
    
    Bottom line for me is that Notre Dame has a history of using these
    kinds of tragic episodes to deepen and enhance its image.  I was just
    trying to encourage some restraint *this* time.   It looks to me like
    they held off.  Bravo, Notre Dame.
    
    On the other hand, if you think Notre Dame never does this, you are
    sadly mistaken.  And to be fair, they're not the only ones who do it. 
    Case in point ... it seems like black arm bands or similar memorials
    are just about standard issue on most teams' uniforms these days. 
    Hell, even my beloved Eagles did it last year with the black stripes on
    their Eagle helmet wings following the late-season death of their
    quarterback coach, Doug Scovil.
    
    Now for you guys who are disgusted by all this, I'm sorry.  That
    certainly wasn't the intent.   You're free to draw whatever conclusions
    you want from my writing.   They're *YOUR* feelings.   I respect them
    and I'd ask nothing more than the same in return.
    
    Bob Hunt

    I agree with Bob and everything he said.
    
    NBC had an interview with Zorich yesterday and some film at the church
    and cemetery.  While I don't think they should have done it, they
    handled it in a very low key manner and it was handled as tastefully as
    anything like this could have been.  I didn't see Notre Dame involved
    in this at all, other than the fact that Zorich had played there,
    played very well against Colorado, was distraught at the loss and so
    on.
    
    John

    I think the key to the interview was Zorich himself.  He seemed
    perfectly willing to talk, if he didn't outright volunteer to talk in 
    the first place.  Now some may accuse me of being sucked into the
    publicity machine, even when I don't like Notre Dame, but this kid
    *exudes* class.  I thought so when I saw him continually refer to
    Lee Corso as "sir" when Corso was intruding upon his private time after
    the Orange Bowl at a time when Zorich was so obviously distressed, and 
    I thought so after I heard his comments on how he was going to live 
    after his mom's passing and how he would draw upon her guidance.  I 
    just think this kid is one hell of a human being, and that has nothing 
    at all to do with Notre Dame.
    
    I guess that's why I reacted so strongly, Bob.  I apologize if I took
    you too literally or seriously.  I guess I just consider Zorich, from
    what I've seen and heard, to truly be a great representative of
    collegiate athletics and an example to kids from his background, 
    something that's become a true rarity in sports.  Hence the response 
    to what I considered to be excessive cynicism.
    
    glenn
      

    >I thought so when I saw him continually refer to
    >Lee Corso as "sir" when Corso was intruding upon his private time after
    >the Orange Bowl at a time when Zorich was so obviously distressed, and 
    
    I think referring to Corso the Bimbo as "Sir" is more a sign of
    discipline than class.  Also regarding this interview, it pained me to
    see it, made me uncomfortable in my living room.  Needless to say,
    Corso lacked to good sense to call it off and I'm surprised that ESPN
    broadcast its tape.  ZOrich was doing his best at restraining deep
    sobs, and Corso seemed to want to pester him until Zorich broke
    completely.
    
    Dan

    Bob and John,
    	Anti and pro ND sentiment will continue forever. I admit I am
    emotionally involved and have difficulty looking at things without
    this bias,but I do try. That's why I do appreciate the other side of
    the story. I would make the same request of you guys and others who
    voice anti-ND sentiment that you make of me: Take your blinders off
    once in a while if you can.
    
    Makes for good copy
    
    MikeL
    

    � I think the key to the interview was Zorich himself.  He seemed
    � perfectly willing to talk, if he didn't outright volunteer to talk in 
    � the first place.  Now some may accuse me of being sucked into the
    � publicity machine, even when I don't like Notre Dame, but this kid
    � *exudes* class.  
    �
    � I  just think this kid is one hell of a human being, and that has
    � nothing  at all to do with Notre Dame.
    �
    � I guess I just consider Zorich, from what I've seen and heard, to truly
    � be a great representative of collegiate athletics and an example to
    � kids from his background,  something that's become a true rarity in
    � sports.  
    
    And not once did I bash Chris Zorich personally.  Had I done so, you're
    right, *THAT* would have been truly disgusting.
    
    For the record, Notre Dame does turn out some stellar individuals. 
    Very classy young gentlemen perfectly able to contend with the real
    world.  That is to Notre Dame's everlasting credit.
    
    But the individuals like Zorich weren't the controversial factor in
    this discussion.  The institution itself has demonstrated some
    not-so-high class moments in the past and I was just urging them not to
    do so again here.  For Zorich's sake.  Certainly not for my sake.
    
    I'm satisfied with their handling of this.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    Bob, can we have some exact specifics of these "incident's from
    the past"? If your talking about just the Rockne thing your reaching.
    I felt nothing but remorse for this man. He has the heart of a lion.
    How anyone can even think of themselves at his moment of grief is 
    selfless banter. Sorry that's the way I feel.
    
    
    Steve

Please don't get Drano and the Hunt started.

They see Notre Dame `as through a glass darkly', and have the ability to
turn the most innocent incident into a reason to trash the school.

Mike JN

    � Please don't get Drano and the Hunt started.

    I'm already finished.  And to repeat, if you're not happy with what I
    said or the way I said it, that's your cross to bear.  I never said I
    was right or anyone else was wrong.   It was just the way I felt about
    it.
    
    As the Grateful Dead say in "Box Of Rain" ...
    
    	"Believe it if you need it.  If you don't, just pass it on."
    
    � They see Notre Dame `as through a glass darkly', and have the ability
    � to turn the most innocent incident into a reason to trash the school.
    
    Which, of course, is diametrically opposed to bowing down, anointing
    and kissing Notre Dame's feet every time they so much as break a little
    wind.
    
    They are not saints, they are not devils.   Like all human beings, the
    individual people who make up the institution called "Notre Dame" have
    a little bit of both in them.  I try to see it that way.   Sorry if
    that upsets you.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Bob "Witch" Hunt gets all mixed-up again, so much so that this time
    he stoops land sags and lags all the way down to the level of a Dan
    implying that it's a Notre Dame conspiracy that's holding up the 
    NCAA Divsion I-A playoff system!
    
    Get it straight: the maudlin play on the death of Zorich's mom is a
    function of American pop culture, specifically in this case to the 
    hype machine that exists in ALL sports, collegiate or otherwise.  
    
    Witch's cruel focus on Zorich probably reflects on the emotional
    let-down he experienced what with the highs (#1) and lows (unranked)
    seen by him this fall.
    
    If you wanna talk about low-life manipulation, how about the oily
    greasy unseemly Frank DeFord sitting on national TV congratulating
    Jughaid (tm) for first running a kid with a heart defect to death 
    then brazenly turning the death into a cause celebre for a scumbag
    play-for-pay instant success college hoops operation.  Where's all 
    the talk about poor Gaithers mom and her cause?
    
    Seeing Zorich in tears at the end of the Orange Bowl was refreshing.
    Too often nowadays we see kids losing a Title game sitting there 
    nonchalantly, probably thinking about his plans after the game ("should
    I go to the gang-bang planned for tonight at the dorm, or how about the
    fresh rock crack just in down at the club I could use a puff").
    
    It's good to see someone who still cares.  I only wish some of the 
    conspiracy theorists in here cared as much as poor Chris does.
    
    MrT 

re.39

Good note, Bob, as usual.
HaHaHaHaHA.

Sorry Bobster.  I'm not really trying to wear you out.  You usually make
a valid attempt to take an objective view about most things.  Your
attempt, if it is such, regarding Notre Dame, fails.  It just doesn't
seem to be a subject about which you can remain objective.

My comment:
    � They see Notre Dame `as through a glass darkly', and have the ability
    � to turn the most innocent incident into a reason to trash the school.
   
wasn't hate mail.  It was merely observation.  If it concerns Notre
Dame, you and Schneid invariably think the worst, or take the most
pessimistic viewpoint.  It's almost inevitable, and I think a lot of
people (I know I do... and I kind of LIKE Notre Dame) rather relish the
predictable `bash' from one or another of you as soon as the name ND
appears in polite company.
 
So... no. Your comments didn't upset me.  I generally look forward to
them.  Good noting in the New Year, dewd.

Mike JN

  �  Bob "Witch" Hunt gets all mixed-up again, so much so that this time
  �  he stoops land sags and lags all the way down to the level of a Dan
  �  implying that it's a Notre Dame conspiracy that's holding up the 
  �  NCAA Divsion I-A playoff system!
    
    Notes> SET NOTE /SARCASM=ON
       
    And, God, am I ever grateful that you're there to bail me out like
    this.  Don't know what I'd do without you, T.  Did you enjoy the
    holidays ???   Call anybody a "pukebucket" or a "vulvahaid" ???
     
    Notes> SET NOTE /SARCASM=OFF
    
  �  Get it straight: the maudlin play on the death of Zorich's mom is a
  �  function of American pop culture, specifically in this case to the 
  �  hype machine that exists in ALL sports, collegiate or otherwise.  
   
    Absolutely 100% true.  And perfected over time to an exquisite level of
    near-perfection by the University of Notre Dame.
     
  �  If you wanna talk about low-life manipulation, how about the oily
  �  greasy unseemly Frank DeFord sitting on national TV congratulating
  �  Jughaid (tm) for first running a kid with a heart defect to death 
  �  then brazenly turning the death into a cause celebre for a scumbag
  �  play-for-pay instant success college hoops operation.  Where's all 
  �  the talk about poor Gaithers mom and her cause?
   
    Yes, by all means, let's talk about it in another note.  I happen to
    agree with you on this.   One of the most *DISGUSTING* things I've ever
    seen was last year's NCAA tournament when CBS floated a "heavenly" shot
    of the late Gathers' smiling face hovering over his teammates as they
    were on the court celebrating their romp over Michigan.   I'm rooting
    for Mrs. Gather's big time in this one.
     
  �  Too often nowadays we see kids losing a Title game sitting there 
  �  nonchalantly, probably thinking about his plans after the game ("should
  �  I go to the gang-bang planned for tonight at the dorm, or how about the
  �  fresh rock crack just in down at the club I could use a puff").
    
    Rollward.  Which one did you go to ???
    
    Bob Hunt    

Strange that the discussion in here isn't revolving around the victory that 
got stolen from Notre Dame (not that I could really care which team won).

The sad fact is that Ismail came up with the goods to save an extremely bland
so-called battle for the championship only to have the TD called back.

Since when is a block on the side a clip?

Add more crappy refereeing......

rick ellis

�   Since when is a block on the side a clip?

Rick

Won't work.
That was a textbook clip.

They could take that piece of film to referees school and use it to
point out EXACTLY what the refs should be looking for on that kind of
play.

Mike JN

    Huntmeister, Notre Dame's PR apparatus had nothing to do with Zorich's
    mom's death, nor with the interviews done with him after that sad event.
    The maudlinism surrounding it, IMNSHO, was by America's guiltless
    standards, kept to a minimum.  
    
    Admit it, a star All-American who plays a_unbelievable game in the
    on the most watched game of the year, the Championship Game, and then 
    unashamedly sheds tears on national TV cuz he's so bum about losing the
    game, and then goes home to find his ma daid... and you complain that 
    it's a function of UND's Sports Information Director?!
    
    If you wanna talk hype let's talk Shawn Moore and lowly unranked UVA,
    probably the most overrated team in the history of college grid.  Now
    *that* was uncalled for!
    
    MrT 

    C'mon, T, old news by now, babe.
    
    I never said they did.  I said I hoped they wouldn't.   Thankfully,
    they didn't.   End of controversy.
    
    What else am I supposed to 'fess up to now ???   I know you like the
    argument itself more than the result but you're reaching on this one. 
    What's left to debate ???    
    
    It's done, over, toast.   Just like Mrs. ...   Nah, I cain't do it.
    
    Bob Hunt

    And if you wanna talk about a college sports program shamelessly
    exploiting the maudlin aspect of so-called personal tragedy then
    Bill McCartney pushing his knocked-up daughter and daid QB had to
    rank right down there with Payola Moneycount's scam.
    
    MrT

Have to agree T.

I was for the Buffs all the way... but the Sal Aunese scam was enough
to gag a dog off a gut wagon.

As usual, I blame the vampires.

Mike JN
$ DEFINE VAMPIRES :== "MEDIA"

    RE: last few...
    
    Wasn't the Loyola Marymont Buffs the team that noted for their
    criminality the year before...
    
    I loved the interview with the LMU coach explained that Sal(monila) was
    also the father of his (bastard??) grandchild.
    
    What a fiasco...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Boy oh boy, the rumor mill surrounding the investigation stemming
    from the Minority Affairs Department criminal prosecution of 
    Bahamian Luther Darville is really pumping... and everything centers
    on speculation that the big loser in the forthcoming revelations is
    none other than Lou Holtz himself.  Maybe it's sour grapes about 
    Lou leaving, maybe it's false accusation from the jailed Darville,
    but throughout his trial Darville's lawyer repeatedly threatened that
    if his man went to jail and no deal was cut and he was made the fall 
    guy for the coach's he had the goods to bring down some of the big 
    names (read: Holtz).
    
    MrT

    I agree completely with the comments on Colorado and Bill McCartney. 
    
    As I mentioned in an earlier note, reading through a couple of chapters
    of McCartney's new book "Ashes To Glory" was enough to make me reach
    for the nearest barf bag.
    
    The part about how he got Sal to accept Christ on his deathbed and how
    that meant that they were all set now for their "Golden Season" was
    pure garbage.
    
    Bob Hunt

re: Mike JN

>>Won't work.
>>That was a textbook clip.

Gotcha, Mike.

I only asked because I was in Vegas at a Sports Book at the time and there must
have been a lot of money both ways on the game.  Hardly anyone of those 
knowledgeable fans could agree on the play.  A few guys tried jumping out of
the window but it didn't work 'cause it was the second floor - only ended up
managing to spill their beers.

Helluva way to end a ball game in any case!!

rick ellis

    
    Read an article in Newsweek about the "illegal" exploits of
    one Lou Holtz while he was coaching at Minnesota. He freely
    admits giving $250 to one kid for a correspondence course and
    $20 to another kid that lost his wallet. He denies all other 
    allegations. The writer of the article thought that the big wigs
    at the school are using Lou as a scape goat. 
    
    I find it rather interesting that some of you feel that the 
    media causes alot of this so called hype. I brought this very
    same point up a few months back. Of course I was taken as a 
    "Holier than Thou", I wake up and pray to my Notre Dame banner,
    fan. As Mr. Spock would say...."Fascinating."
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    Main!  I think it's time for UND to revisit Digger Phelps' 
    employment status in Notre Dame, Indiana.  One look at this 
    team and you see that it has all the pieces to work and work
    well.  One look at the teams record and suddenly a_unexplained
    negative delta leaps out at you.  
    
    It's fine and wail to blabber on about how Digger runs a clean
    program, but many a coach has proved that that cain be done
    while also excelling on the court.  Digger ain't done this, and
    deserves to be canned in favor of a more capable coach.  The
    hygiene angle is almost moot anyway, cuz UND has to be the easiest
    recruiting job in the world.
    
    MrT

Who could replace Phelps?   It would have to be a "name" coach, right?

How about Mean Gene Keady?   He'd bring the program back to compete with
the football team for national attention.  And the relo would be cheap! 

Digger definitely should go.    Either to broadcasting or to some small
school where he can start again.

    Say it ain't so!
    Heard a rumor from a report in yesterday's South Bend Tribune that
    Rocket( soon to be known as Deep Pocket(s) if this is true ) has
    supposedly agreed to sign a $25 million dollar contract with Nike to
    sponsor a new "Rocket" sneaker. I wonder if they'll combine this
    with the Air Jordan sneaker so that if you can't accelerate through
    the tacklers,you can fly over them!
    
    On the "clip", I was at the game and obviously didn't see it. Most
    of the ND people at the game weren't too upset with call,they were
    more upset with way the team played in the second half. I watched the
    tape of the game and found it inconclusive. It didn't seem to me to be
    an obvious clip nor did it look like a clean block. The camera angle
    was on the opposite side of the call,and the ref was on that side of
    the field and he doesn't have the luxury of the replay. Although it
    looked borderline to me on the replay,I don't dispute the call.
    One thing seemed curious though. In looking at the replay,the "clip"
    occured at the 28 yard line. The referee who threw the flag was
    running upfield and looking back at the play. He was at the 44 yard line
    when he threw the flag. There was a referee not more than two yards
    from the clip(closer to the sideline) who didn't throw a flag. I
    don't know if this second ref was looking elsewhere or just did not
    think it was a clip from his angle. The bottom line is that one ref
    thought it was a clip from his angle. Just a question,the ref who
    threw the flag had a black hat(line judge?) and the one who did not
    had a white hat (umpire?) Are there delineations of responsibilities
    on kickoffs for refs just as there are for line of scrimmage plays?
    At any event,the call obviously stands and I saw no evidence to refute
    it.
    
    
    MikeL
       
      

    
    > $25 million dollar contract with Nike
    
    Not a bad part-time job for a struggling student, eh?
    
    Dickstah
    

>    gas (which escapes me at the moment!)
>
>    Hawk

I hope nobody's standing nearby.

    Heck,  PF FLyers had an "action wedge" 20 years ago.  This must be part
    of that nostalgia craze.

    
    Thanks for the LOTD (laugh of the day) Doug.
    
    Hawkster, that stuff in the heels is a rip-off of an invention called
    "Flubber" and the patent is held by Disney.  I must be getting a little
    absent minded, cause I can't think of the inventor's name.
    
    Dickstah
    

    >[Holtz] freely
    >admits giving $250 to one kid for a correspondence course and
    >$20 to another kid that lost his wallet. He denies all other 
    >allegations. 
    
    Why do you assume Holtz is telling the truth in slamming noters who
    choose to bring to light any unseamly activity that concerns Notre
    Dame?
    
    Dan

    
    Why do you assume he's lying?
    
    
    
    Steve

    Because he continually lies in public all the time.  What I assume is
    that the truth lay somewhere in between Holtz's version and Luther
    Whatever's.
    
    Dan

    
    Dan, how do you know he's lying? Is it just your belief he's
    lying or was proved? I really don't give two shits about the 
    guy I'm just curious as to why you seem so sure of yourself that
    the man lies in public. 
    
    
    
    Steve

    Steve, have you watched any Holtz press conferences over the years? 
    Their usually pure bullshit.  Holtz will say anything to give his team
    any edge that the insurmountable talent hasn't already given him.  He's
    lied blatantly about his own talent, about the other team's talent,
    about injuries.  He's hyped games that were lopsided; he's praised
    teams that deserved none; he's pushed his own team for titles they
    didn't deserve.
    
    He's already changed his own story on Minnesota from no wrong-doing to
    what he hopes the public will believe is minor, understandable,
    worried-about-the-kid  rule breaking.
    
    Did I believe Dick Nixon when he claimed he wasn't a crook? Nope.
    
    Dan

    Please Dan,get  off your soapbox. Hotltz in nether as bad as you
    state,nor as godly as some believe. I think he's a helluva coach
    though.
    
    MikeL
    

    Most of these "lies" are so trivial and obvious, and such a part of 
    Holtz' personality, as to be laughable.  You don't have to like it or 
    him, but using Holtz' outrageous exaggerations as evidence that he's a 
    liar and wouldn't stoop to breaking NCAA violations is specious and
    dishonest.  It does not, however, erase the allegations.  Those deserve
    to be fully examined.  And as I understand it, the University of
    Minnesota has agreed with the NCAA's report on violations there,
    including the charge that Holtz knew that cash payments were funneled 
    to a player through an assistant.  I guess the remaining question is 
    whether the school did so because they concur with the report as a 
    whole on order to be done with the investigation, or whether they 
    have proof on each and every charge. 
    
    glenn
         

    
    Dan. while I do agree the guy spews bullsh*t during press conferences,
    I hardly agree that saying such things as "We don't desreve the
    ranking", or "East Bumhead St. is one heckofa football team"
    etc.. constitutes calling the man a liar. He's innocent til proven
    guilty by a jury of his peers in my book. Alot of coahes say stupid
    things, Holtz just say's alot more than your average coach! 
    
    
    
    Steve

    You guys shouldn't takes Dan seriously, he doesn't deserve it.
    
    It's only Dan's natural instink to call somebody whom he considers
    a_affront to his ideas a liar.  He called *me* a liar and when
    challenged only proved that I wasn't; so why should it come as a_
    surprise that he calls Lou a liar for poor mouthing his teams'
    talent?
    
    Back to the issue: Luther Darville ran the U. of Minnesota Minority
    Affairs Department and had a budget of several hundred thousand
    dollars (federal and state monies) to be used to help minority students
    survive while in school.  One way or another, Darville ended up hanging
    out with black football and basketball players and providing them a lot
    of clothes, meals, money, etc.  
    
    Cuz the "U" is a state school (and not a money-grubbing Jesuit operation, 
    for example) the budget inevitably underwent a financial audit, and nearly
    $200,000 turned up missing.  Darvile was charged with a felony count of 
    embezzlement.  The defense claimed that he was only a bag man for the 
    coaches, but he was unable to offer any proof that he supplied the jocks
    at anybody's direction, and had trouble explaining his suddenly enhanced
    personal lifestyle (BMW 325i, nice condo, Hugo Boss suits, nice furniture,
    trips, etc.).  When the ex-jocks testified it came off like Darville was
    giving them these things cuz he wanted to be associated with BMOCs and
    also cuz a his notion of racial solidarity.
    
    His defense attorney repeatedly made public threats intimating that he
    could bring down Holtz et al unless a_out of court settlement was  reached.
    The State Attorney Gen'l (Hubert Humphrey's son, btw) told him to screw
    off.  Luther was convicted and went quietly.  Rumors then abounded that
    big-time boosters had paid hush money to him to keep his mouth shut.
    
    Darville is doing hard time in the big house now and since the inevitable
    NCAA investigation about lack of institutional control over Darville
    hit the papers he hasn't been so quiet.  Rumors abound that there is new
    evidence that didn't come out in the trial that'll come out in the NCAA
    investigation.
    
    This I doubt.  Luther was terrified of having to be cellmates with a
    Bubba wearing mascara eyeshadow and lipstick, so it stands to reason that
    he woulda put any evidence during the trial in order to avert the sorry
    fate he's now suffering.
    
    I think Luther is just blowing now.
    
    Big10 Tom

    >It's only Dan's natural instink to call somebody whom he considers
    >a_affront to his ideas a liar.  
    
    When just about any public statement I've ever heard Lou Holtz make
    falls short of the truth, why should I believe at face value his denial
    of wrong-doing?
    
    >He called *me* a liar and when
    >challenged only proved that I wasn't;
    
    Actually, I proved you were, with direct quotes from your notes.  But
    that's in the past, so I advise you not to bring it up again.
    
    Dan
    

    Big 10 Tom,
    	"and not a money-grubbing Jesuit operation"
    
    Yea, I never liked them Jesuit operations (i.e Boston College,Holy
    Cross) either. We all know they're all money-grubbing. I just knew
    you admired Notre Dame,because Holy Cross Padres always are on the
    up and up. 
    
    Mikel
    

    >I advise you not to bring it up again.
    
    You said I said that you'd deleted notes.  I denied it and you called
    me a liar repeatedly.  I said prove it and you then input a verbatim
    quote of me speculating that under certain circumstances you probably 
    would go so far as to delete a note for venal rhetorical purposes.
    
    re: Jesuits
    
    Cain't tale whether you were being sarcastic or not, but as a_Irish
    Catholic I guess it's OK for me to remind us all that serveral times 
    the papacy sought to stamp out the Fathers of Jesus cuz they were 
    regarded (rightly or wrongly) as money-grubbing meddling politicos
    prone to alcoholism and sexual perversion.
    
    As a Catholic I find their plunge into the high finances of college
    hoops a bit discomfiting.  Too bad they cain't show the restraint and
    class that Notre Dame - the most exemplary of all college athletic
    departments - has.
    
    Big10 Tom

    MrT,
    	Was being sarcastic a bit! Am also an Irish Catholic and have no
    love for the Jesuits. I cast no aspersions on those schools under
    the Jebbie wing as I am not knowlegeable enough on the subject to
    fairly comment on it. 
    
    Quiz,
    	Do any of you all know who Notre Dame' sister school is? (Holy
    Cross Padres) Hint: It's in Mass and ND played them in BBall a couple
    of years ago. Please don't go to the stat books for the answer. Take
    a guess. Winner gets a free seminar with Lou Holtz on the subject
    of "My year(s)(??) at Wake Forest" 
    
    
    MikeL
     

    Dan, do you think that Holtz is the only coach that blows smoke about
    his team and it's opponents?
    
    I'd venture that the minority of coaches tell it exactly like it is,
    whether it's about an injured player, or the next opponent, or even the
    last opponent.  It's more traditional to overpraise the opponent, add
    some doubt about your own team, not tip-off that your injured star will
    play, etc.  If you were to claim that your team was the best, and was
    bound to win the title, yet finished way below the leaders, then we
    could file the same claim against you, n'est pas?
    
    Why do you single out one man about this?
    
    As far as the allegations go, that's another matter entirely.
    
    lEe

I can't believe anyone can get upset with Holtz because he poor mouths
his team. He's always done that. He's become a caricature of himself,
and most people think it is funny. When Newsmen told Bill McCartney 
- prior to the Orange Bowl - that Hotz had announced more injuries,,
McCartney deadpanned " Must be family or coaching staff " ( indicating
he thought that Holtz had already announced injuries for everyone on the
team ). Nobody takes him seriously...  even his own team thinks it's
funny. To call him a liar over this `schtick' is like calling George
Burns a liar because he still carries around a cigar... but doesn't
light it.

( Of course, if your hate for Notre Dame is so great that you're
really not quite rational any more, I can understand.... but you've got
a lot bigger problem than Lou Holtz ).

Mike JN

    Any word out of South Bend on Derek Brown coming out early?
    
    Joe

    Joe,
    	I just caught wind of it yesterday on one them local Boston
    radio shows. Rumor control from South Bend has not been heard from.
    I wouldn't be surprised if he came out. Will update if I found out
    more.
    
    MikeL
    

    Since no one ventured a guess(or cared) who ND's sister school is
    out here in Mass," The answer is Stonehill College." I'll award 
    myself the seminar with Holtz on Wake Forest. Maybe that's the
    reason nobody ventured a guess. I'll bring me pillow.
    
    MikeL
    

    ND beat West Virginia last night for their 2nd win in a row, but it was
    reported on Sportscenter that LaPhonso Ellis may be declared
    academically ineligible for the Spring semester.  Vitale says Digger is
    at ND as long as he wants to be, but I can't help but think his job is
    in jeopardy.  He had a very young team last year and barely made the
    tourney, but is on course to miss the NIT this year.  Besides, Vitale
    is a big ND-supporter.  In defense of Digger, the Irish have played a
    tough schedule and I know they still have to play 3 or 4 Big East
    teams, but I don't think ND will let Digger stick around after a losing
    season.  One bright spot for ND this year has been Damion Sweet.  Every
    time I've seen them this year he seems to play well.
    
    Joe

    Is David Rivers still with the Lakers?  I thought he'd be a star guard,
    but I don't even know if he's in the NBA anymore.
    
    And not that this is related to Notre Dame, but I might as well ask
    while I'm on the "where are they now" subject:
    
    	- Walter Barry (that was his first name, right?  St. Johns, player
    	 	 	of the year in college hoops, came out early)
    	- Jerome Lane (still with Denver?)
    
    Thanks.
    
    	--dan'l

    I don't think ND will let Phelps go whether or not he has a losing
    season. He's been there quite a long time (20 plus yrs ),and the
    University is quite sensitive about treating its coaches right and
    not having the rep for treating them like a piece of meat. They want
    to avoid any situation that resembles anything like the Terry Brennan
    mishandling in the 50's. That's why,IMO,they handled Faust with kid
    gloves.
    	Vitale is pretty close to the ND basketball scene as his daughter
    is a freshman(woman) out there. I saw him quite a bit at the official
    ND events at Orange Bowl time in Miami. Rumor has it that he and
    Phelps frequent the same Italiano restaurant just east of the ND
    campus once a week. Cripe, I was at the particular restaurant last
    fall and pictures of both of them together are hanging on the walls.
    
    
    MikeL
       

    RE: Jerome Lane
    He's still with the Nuggets.
    
    Don't both of Vitale's daughters go to ND?  Also, I read where Vitale
    is planning on attending all ND home football games for the next 4 years.
    
    Joe                                          

    Rivers was an expansion pick by the T-wolves and released I think

    It's official that LaPhonso Ellis is academically ineligible and will
    miss the rest of the season.
    
    Joe
        

>( Of course, if your hate for Notre Dame is so great that you're
>really not quite rational any more, I can understand.... but you've got
>a lot bigger problem than Lou Holtz ).
    
    Such as, Mr. sidge-notie?
    
    lEe, Holtz singled himself out when he improperly handed money out to
    his players.  I had nothing to do with it.
    
    Dan

�          -< Don't leave me hangin', Mike!  What do I got? >-

DRANO

YUO HAV A RAG ARM AND JO NAMUSS WOULD SLAP YUO!
LOU HOLES IS NO TOO BLAM!!!!!!!

MIKE JN OBJEKTUV SPROTS ANALITS

    re: .86 (Where are they now?)
    
    Rivers was released into the expansion draft by the Lakers and chosen
    by Minnesota.  He didn't make the final cut, and surfaced on the LA
    Clippers last year, when they were in dire need of healthy guards.  He
    was cut this year, but was resigned.  Can't hit the J in the NBA and
    can't drive as easily as he did in college.
    
    WallaBerry was last cut by San Antonio I think, and has been in Italy
    the last few years.
    
    Lane is a sometimes starter on the Nuggets.  They've been trying to
    make him a guard despite the fact that in college he was a short,
    Barkley/Oakley type of big forward on the boards.
    
    Dan

    Dan, I never said you had anything to do with his handing out money.
    
    My note had to do with his blowing smoke, which you seemed to imply was
    a negative aspect of his coaching, or at least something that you found
    to be undesireable.  My point was that it's been my experience that
    most coaches, pro or college, seem to tout the upcoming opponent rather
    than to expound on their own strengths, including being evasive about
    whether or not a reportedly injured player of theirs would play.
    
    lEe

    >My note had to do with his blowing smoke, which you seemed to imply was
    >a negative aspect of his coaching, or at least something that you found
    >to be undesireable.  
    
    Lee, I don't need to imply anything.  I'll spell it out.  Every time
    Lou Holtz opens his mouth, a crock of shit passes through it.  It is
    not relagated to his T-style poor mouthing, but is used much more
    broadly.  Which is why I'm disinclined to believe his already
    once-amended story concerning giving money to players.
    
    Dan  

    But Dan, how do you *REALLY* feel about Lou?
    
    Lee
    
    

    Just heard the new. Rocket has opted for the draft.
    Now for the question. Will the Pats draft or trade him. Heard from
    a friend of a friend that an unreliable(not you John H.) source
    at a Patriots' meeting yesterday,said that the Pats intend of 
    trading the #1 choice to Dallas if he comes out. Any truth to that
    rumor?
    
    MikeL
    
    IMO, the Pats will make a major PR mistake if they don't draft
    Rocket.  See you in the Pats note
     

                      <<< Note 37.101 by NEMAIL::LEARYM >>>
                            -< Rocket is launched! >-

>    Just heard the new. Rocket has opted for the draft.
>    Now for the question. Will the Pats draft or trade him. Heard from
>>    a friend of a friend that an unreliable(not you John H.) source
>>    at a Patriots' meeting yesterday,said that the Pats intend of 
>>    trading the #1 choice to Dallas if he comes out. Any truth to that
>>    rumor?

     Ya the rumor is Pats #1 and Irvin Fryar for the 3 #1's picks Dallas 
     has. 

Chuck

    
    "Patriot Rocket."  Hey, I like the sound of that.  Is there a TM on it
    yet?
    
    Dickstah
    

    Drafting Ismail may be a great PR move but it would be a lousy move for
    building a solid team.
    
    Ismail isn't going to solve the problems this team has.  We need a heck
    of a lot more than a kick returner who can occasionally play running
    back or wide receiver, and who has never played entire games at either
    position, and who furthermore has never proven his durability.  I would
    rather get a whole lot of number 1 picks and address the myriad of
    needs we have.
    
    The Rocket is a good player and a wise choice for a team that's one or
    two players away from being a great team.  That's not the case with the
    Patriots, sad to say.
    
    John

    I think it would be a dumb move by Dallas to trade their 3 picks for
    the #1 and Ismail.  Dallas can do much better just holding on to what
    they've got and continue rebuilding.
    
    Besides, Ismail is a Steelers fan.  He wouldn't want to play for
    Dallas.  Of course Dorsett felt the same way and look what he did.
    
    	--dan'l

    dan'l,

    Didn't mean to mislead you with my previous note. I was clowning
    when I said Dallas 3 #1's for  #1 overall and Fryar. You see for 
    the last 3 off season theres a rumor of Fryar going to Dallas via
    a lopsided trade.
 
    I won't mind seeing Rocket with the Cowboys but not as the #1 over
    all.

   Chuck

�   <<< Note 37.105 by VAXWRK::NEEDLE "Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!"" >>>
�               -< Why not draft him and use him at quarterback? >-


He's not short enough.

Mike JN

    As you are all aware,Lou Holtz was charged with recruiting violations
    at Notre Dame regarding Ohio prep running back Kijana Carter. According
    to the football mag, Blue and Gold (BTW not associated with the
    University) here is the facks. Believe 'em or not.
    
    A story appeared in the St Paul Pioneer by staff writer Charley Hallman
    quoting "a major college football coach who requested anonymity" that
    Penn St and Ohio St had turned in ND to the NCAA for violations in its
    recruitment of Carter.
    	Carter made his official paid visit to ND on 12/8/90,but he also
    made unpaid visits to ND for the Michigan,Miami,and Penn St games (geez
    he was 2-1, better than me who was 0-2). According to Hallman's unnamed
    source,ND and Carter violated NCAA rules during those visits by:
    1)having Carter's mother stay in the home of a booster during his 
    official visit in December; 2)staying free in a dorm on an unofficial 
    visit to the Michigan game; 3) watching the Notre Dame-Miami game
    from the sideline; 4)receiving school athletic equipment.
    	The unnamed coach added that Carter's high school coach,Tom
    Pusateri,is a Notre Dame grad and discouraged Carter from making visits
    to other schools. On these two charges,Pusateri is a grad of Capital
    Univ. and stated that he personally drove Carter to Michigan,Penn St
    and Notre Dame on unoficial visits (Hmmm, they must play high school
    football on Friday night in Ohio).Carter was also scheduled to make
    trips to Colorado and Ohio St.
    	Regarding the four charges:
        1) Carter said that his mother stayed with him in the hotel during
      his official visit. Not a violation.
        2) Carter did stay in a dorm before the Michigan game but with a
      friend from his high school who is a student at Notre Dame. Not a
      violation.
        3) The only time Carter was on the field against Miami,according
      to both Pusateri and Carter,was when he walked out of the tunnel
      and walked across the end zone to get to his seat. Not a violation
        4) Carter did get some Notre Dame athletic equipment;T-shirts he
      purchased in the ND bookstore. Not a violation.
    
    "Sombody is pulling some stuff with this story,I think," Pusateri told
    the Columbus Dispatch. " Somebody has got to pull something like this
    just to get at Lou Holtz."
    Carter told the Columbus Dispatch," Maybe they're using me to get at
    somebody else-that's about all that makes any sense. I read the NCAA
    rules about what you can and can't do. I haven't disobeyed any of
    them."
    Ohio St officials emphatically denied turning Notre Dame in. Penn St
    stated its policy is not to make any correspondence it has with the
    NCAA public.
    
    Bottom line, no violations were uncovered in the Carter recruitment.
    I personally didn't believe there was much credence to the story,
    but I'm admittedly biased a bit. Draw your conclusions.
    
    Whaddya think, do I smell a Nittany Lyin( er Lion)? 
    
    
    MikeL
      

>Whaddya think, do I smell a Nittany Lyin( er Lion)? 

No, I think the definitive part of .109, if anything is:

>   According to
>   the football mag, Blue and Gold (BTW not associated with the
>    University) here is the facks.

Right, not associated with the university, but still full of rhetoric and 
pro-ND propoganda just like any magazine of this sort.  

    If you either read further or paid attention dan'l,Blue and Gold got most
    of its content from the Columbus Dispatch and St. Paul Pioneer Press
    They interviewed Carter and the info he told Blue and Gold,he also told
    the Columbus Dispatch.
    As I said believe what you want,but Blue and Gold did not approach 
    either Hotlz or Notre Dame itself. I haven't read any story about
    someone disputing the information that I relayed. Maybe we will in
    time.
    
    MikeL
     

           
    I think what Mike L. has posted has pretty much been substantiated.
    The Carter story is old news, and there were no violations, or at 
    the very least none of any substance.  The initial rumors were blown 
    out of proportion.
    
    We still don't know all the facts on Holtz' involvement at Minnesota,
    though.  That *is* still hanging over his head...
    
    glenn
      

    Glenn,	
    	I'm not really up on the allegations against Holtlz while at
    Minnesota,but I thought he admitted to at least two.
    
    1.He admitted to giving $250 to a former football player to pay for
      a correspondence course which allowed the player to be re-admitted
     to the University. However,the NCAA claimed that because of this,
     the football player was re-admitted and was eligible for play. Holtz
    I thought stated that although the player was re-admitted to UM,he
    was academically ineligible to play football
    
    2. He gave a prospective recruit $200 for a lost wallet on the campus
    during a recruiting trip to Minnesota. This recruit eventually
    enrolled at UM. Holtz admits giving the guy $20 out of "humanitarian
    reasons" and not to gain a competetive edge. Something's funny as the
    recruit said $40 and his then-assistant at Um,Pete Cordelli, said
    $200. This one would seem the most critical admittance.
    
    I know that Holtz denied giving an academic advisor $500 to give to
    a football player. Holtz claims that he made personal loans in
    checks to this advisor,but never to the football player. I don't
    know about this one either. If Holtz knew that the advisor was
    going to give the football player money,I doubt seriously that
    he'd be stupid enough to transact it via checks. 
    
    I'm no big Holtz fan,but let's treat him fairly and see what 
    comes of this.If he's guilty, then he should pay (and I don't
    mean checks or cash!)
    
    MikeL
     

    MikeL, no proof required.  He's the ND coach, so he's guilty, period.
     :*)
    
    That's the American way, guilty until proven innocent.  Unless, of
    course, you're talking about a criminal.  Then, just reverse the
    assumption.
    
    lEe 

    Since there isn't an Official Track and Field note, I figured this was
    the most appropriate place to put this:
    
    
    
    There was a short blub on the Glob today about the Rocket.
    Apparently he competed in a NCAA track meet somwhere in Indiana.
    
    His event was the 55 meter dash.
    
    He won the event with a winning time of  6.07 seconds!
    
    Don't remember exactly if it was the meet record or an NCAA
    record but the paper said the old record was 6.00 seconds.
    
    My friends, this man is rather quick on his feet!!!
    
    Kev
    

    Blue&Gold Mag editorialized on Diggger Phelps this past month and
    suggested it was time for Digger and the University to part ways.
    Thay were careful not to recommend his firing because Phelps promotes
    a positive image of a coach that cares for his student-athletes.
    I've never disagreed with that premise,but Digger has been harping for
    the last few years about how he gets his players to graduate. Let's
    give the athletes some credit. Sure, Digger stays on top of them,but
    it is the athlete who does the work. I just feel it is time for him to
    step down. The BBall programmed has declined and Digger should resign.
    I would like to see him stay on in the athletic department or at least
    some facet of the University because he can make positive contributions
    in other areas. Rumors from South Bend suggest that some likely
    candidates for the job should Digger resign are: PJ Carlesimo of Seton
    Hall, Pete Gillam ( I think that's his name ) from Xavier or Coach K
    from Duke. The last one may be farfetched. Anyone heard anything else?
    
    
    MikeL
    

    If not for David Rivers, Digger would have been gone five years ago. 
    Rivers was the only reason the Irish won in the mid 80's, often winning
    games single-handedly.  Digger must have prayed hard when David's guts
    were hanging out on the side of the road one night.  
    
    	--dan'l

    Heard on the radio this morning that Phelps has a press conference
    scheduled for 2pm EDT today, supposedly to dispel rumors that he is
    resigning.

    I sure wish Digger would go.  I've never considered him a good coach - 
    at least since he left good ol' Fordham.
    
    But, I was sickened at the thought of having Digger be an analyst.
    
    YUCH!
    
    JD

    JD,
    	I agree with you on Digger.  You're probably too young to remember
    the flak about him leaving Fordham but I remember...
    He had the whole City going Ga-ga with Fordham and then he left
    (abruptly) to go to ND.  Since I was influenced by the NYC media at
    the time, I felt betrayed by his actions.
    
    Never got over it either...  I may like ND BBall but I don't like
    Digger.
    Kev
    

 In 20 years at Notre Dame, each and every single one of Digger Phelps's
 players got their degree.   You cannot improve on a 100% graduation rate.
 
 A dozen or more 20-win seasons, not even a whiff of a scandal, and 100%
 diplomas and the guy basically gets run out of town.    Meanwhile the
 slimy Little Weasel in charge of the blessed football team stays on.  Sad.
 
 Phelps has more integrity in his little finger than most coaches have in
 their entire programs.   He can coach for me anytime he wants.
 
 Bob Hunt

    He'll have that chance now Bob ....
    
    Phelps announced his resignation - in effect he said he's tired of
    putting up with the crap from fans and alumni ...
    
    Doc

    Kev -
    
    Hey - I grew up in the shadow of Fordham university.  We had a big ol
    Quadruple level house - with the Irish extended family living there,
    and the top floor was for 'boarders' - always had a couple of Fordham
    students living there.   Digger led Fordham to the #9 ranking in the
    nation.  My dad's bar would have some serious 'betting' action during
    Fordham games....
    
    Bob -
    
    Amen.  It's no secret that I like ND - and I wish they'd boot Holtz so
    far you'd never see him again.   Didn't like Digger as a coach - but he
    was successful - especially in the academics department.  And that
    victory of UCLA will forever burn in my memory.  As will the
    performances of Austin Carr and Adrian Dantly, John Shumate and David
    Rivers...
    
    JD

 >A dozen or more 20-win seasons, not even a whiff of a scandal, and 100%
 >diplomas and the guy basically gets run out of town.  
    
    Yeah, if he only did much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much,
    much, much, much, much, much better as a coach, Bob, you could be
    ripping him as an underachiever using purely subjective reasoning.
    
    Dan

    BTW, didn't Phelps only coach one year at Fordham?  Or was it more than
    that?
    
    Dan

    Took the words right outa my mouth Dan.  Incredible.  Simply
    incredible.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    No Dan and Chris - barking up the wrong tree.  See Digger never had a
    team of blue bloods from one end of the bench to another - and not year
    in year out.  
    
    Digger also isn't a media/alum/fan created legend.  he doesn't have a
    dome named after him.  He doesn't let his point guards slap women
    around.  
    
    Try as you might, you can't compare Coach Choke of the ACC with
    everyone who gets even an ounce of praise in here.  
    
    The graduation rate is nice.  For that he should be commended - as Dean
    and Bob and COach K and Louie and the rest of the coaches who produce
    nice grad numbers should.  Digger was able to squeeze everythiung out
    of marginal talent and get some nice season records - but his teams,
    other than the 78 (or was it 77) tean were rarely of champeenship
    variety - he never had the horses.   
    
    Digger was like Dean in one respect - I was basically certain that if
    he made the NCAA he's get bounced by an 'overachieving, incredibly hot
    team, aided by officials, playing in the wrong section, at the wrong
    court, while being shackled with injuries.'  But he always knew how
    much time he had, and he never threw in the towell with 35 seconds left
    in a close game.
    
    JD

    Digger not a legend created by the media?  Hah, nice one JD.  The man
    never saw a TV camera he didn't make a bee-line toward.  The man was a
    pompous wind bag who underachieved *badly*.  The fact that he was
    coaching at Notre Dame is solid proof that he had PLENTY of good
    players.  (I mean, if you can't recruit at Notre Dame, where *can* you
    recruit?!)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    One more thing regarding Digger.  He's a classic example of a guy who
    gets rewarded for underachivement.  Witness how many times he manages
    to pull the really *BIG* upset.  Seems like it happened all the time.
    Meanwhile his teams would always manage to lose 10-15 games per year,
    despite having solid recruiting success.
    
    Same thing with Massamino @ Villanova.  Two (2) years ago he had one of
    the top ranked recruiting classes in the country, yet this year he
    squeaked into the NCAA's.  Yet everybody talks about him like he's the
    greatest coach since Wooden.
    
    STOP REWARDING THE UNDERACHIEVERS, FOLKS!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    ACC Chris -
    
    Yeah Digger was on TV - but he wasn't an idol like a certain
    underacheiver in North Carolina.  And his talent base was never what
    UNC's was.  You cain look it up.  ND is  and always will be a football
    school.  UNC is a hoops school.   I don't think Digger was overrated
    because I think as a coach, he was largely ignored.  As a personality,
    he was hyped - mainly due to being at Notre Dame.   
    
    ND never seems to get HS player of the year's in hoops.  And in
    Indiana, ND is not the #1 hoop school - Indiana has that title - with
    Purdue and State giving ND a run for the money.  Nationally, ND doesn't
    have the same power in Hoops recruiting as it does in football.  You
    cain look that up also.  
    
    ND Football and ND basketball are completely seperate entities - in
    recruiting, success and noteriety...
    
    JD

    Oh and Chris - 
    
    You just made at coaches like Digger and Rollie because they can win
    the BIG UPSET - something Coach Idol at UNC could never do.  Oh, and
    Chris, Rollie has as many titles as Deano.   And he did it by
    overachieving and pulling an upset in the finals.  (John Thompson
    Deaned (TM) that final.)
    
    As for Digger, hey like I said, I think his best coaching job was at
    Fordham.  The team pulled off some incredible upsets, and to put it in
    perspective - any team that was the one to end UCLA's 88 game streak
    was going to get a huge amount of media play.  (Didn't NC Also end
    another UCLA streak (60 + games or so???)
    
    But Digger also had a tendacy to Dean(TM) in the NCAA's - losing to SMU
    and other teams they were favored over.  
    
    I'm not sorry to see him go.  
    
    JD

>               <<< Note 37.129 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
>           -< The Good (Dean), The Bad (Digger), and the Ugly (Bob) >-
    
    Methinks the Tarhole doth protest too much.
    

    The BIG UPSET is something Dean very, very, *very* rarely has the
    opportunity to attempt.  The reason?  His outrageously successful
    System has set such high standards of achievement that no one can see
    fit to put Carolina in the underdog role.
    
    (BTW, if I were an ND supporter, I'd be glad to see Digger go too. 
    FWIW, Bobby Cremins is being mentioned as a possible successor.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

                   
    > STOP REWARDING THE UNDERACHIEVERS, FOLKS!
    
    Haw haw haw!  You'd think out of common decency you'd wait for the
    memories of Dean's latest boner to fade just a little bit before making
    such a hilarious demand, Chris...
    
    Bob H., I've got to admit you set yourself up badly on that last one.
    I'd venture a guess that with ND's support systems and recruiting
    objectives that a mannequin propped up at courtside would "graduate" 
    95% of his basketball players at ND (and think of the kudos that
    mannequin would receive!).  That USA Today study published a while 
    back showed 92.7% of *all* students graduating in five years from ND.
    It's pretty easy to be high and mighty about academics when you're
    coaching *any* sport at ND and have a pretty good crack at the best 
    and brightest student-athletes that come down the pike, an advantage
    some of your "sleazier" coaches don't enjoy, through no particular 
    fault of their own.
    
    And no, Digger Phelps didn't personally educate or "graduate" anyone.
    He's the basketball coach.  If the basketball coach doesn't win,
    even at Notre Dame where so much in the way of recruitment and
    fan support is automatically taken care of, then he's out.  Mediocrity
    in job performance, even for really wonderfully nice guys that everyone
    loves, should not be rewarded in and of itself.
    
    glenn
     

    To put this in perspective, would somebody please list all of Phelps'
    players who went on to the NBA?  Tim Kempton is one.  Did Lambeir play
    for Phelps?
    
    I think a list like this, compared to Dean's, might give Bob Hunt some
    credit where credit is due...which is exactly what he was saying about
    Digger.
    
    	--dan'l

    - Adrian Dantley
    - John Shumate
    - David Rivers
    
    I'm sure there are more ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Tim Kempton, Bill Laimbeer, Kelly Tripucka, Orlando Woolridge, Austin
 Carr, Adrian Dantley, David Rivers, ...  There's gotta be more.
 
 For the record, I never said that Phelps never underachieved.  Sure, he
 did.   With rare exceptions, all coaches do to some degree.   Some
 coaches, like you-know-who, have perfected the art down to a science.
 
 I chose to wish Digger Phelps good luck because of all the good things
 he's done for the game and the Hare Smithnas jump all over me because I
 didn't call him a choker just like their man is.   Maybe someday the Hare
 Smithnas will see beyond the end of their cute little baby blue noses and
 realize that the entire college basketball world does not revolve around a
 certain underachieving chain smoker in Chapel Hill.
 
 Okay, Hare Smithnas, if this will make you feel better, here goes ... 
 
                          Digger Phelps choked.
 
 However, I've yet to see Phelps make it to 11 Sweet Sixteens in a row, get
 the top recruiting classes in the country on a yearly basis, lose to
 Indiana with players like Michael Jordan, and so on like the Dean-meister
 does so exquisitely well.
 
 When Phelps does all this, I'll be sure to let you know.  No doubt Dean
 will still be at Chapel Hill peddling his cheap version of a basketball
 system to his willing flock.   He'll probably be 1 for 60 by then.
 
 Bob Hunt

    So now that the hypocrisy of the Anti-Smiths has been exposed in full
    bloom, it's a little hard for me to swallow the whining that poor
    Digger couldn't recruit talent at Notre Dame.  Let's see, the team went
    something like 12-20 this year, and almost every bloody game was on
    TV!  Poor Digger, no exposure.
    
    You guys who can puff up your subjective chests with endless criticism
    of a guy who makes the final four, and then defend one of the worst
    underachievers in the business need another solution.  I'd suggest
    pumping up the ol' propoganda machinery again.  Yeah, it's a little
    rickety after all the overuse you got out of lambasting Dean for
    landing himself in 3rd or 4th place out of the 296 Division 1 schools
    this year, but prime that pump and get out your bailing wire and bubble
    gum.  There's hypocrisy to be done!
    
    Dan

BTW, Chris the Rollie crack is too funny...I'm speechless hahahaa

 mike

    Hey, Dan, it's propAganda, not propOganda (that's a rugby term for sex
    with a goose or something).  You make the claim so often I just thought 
    you might like to know...
    
    glenn
    

    re: .141 (Mike)
    
    True or False question for ya Mike:
    
    Did Rollie Massamino have one of the top recruiting classes in the
    country two (2) years ago?  (The year he signed Bain and all those
    other high school studs.)
    
    I rest my case.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >      -< When do accusations of propaganda become so themselves? >-
    
    Certainly not when the likes of Digger Phelps with his mountains of
    talent, no titles, and decidedly mediocre finishes most of the time is
    held up as an icon of all that is good, and a guy with all the positive
    attributes of Digger, more wins than anyone in sight, consistent
    excellent performance, etc, etc, etc. is trashed mercilessly with a
    blunt hodge-podge of subjectivities.
    
    Dan

    >Did Rollie Massamino have one of the top recruiting classes in the
    >country two (2) years ago?  (The year he signed Bain and all those
    >other high school studs.)
    
    Personally, I think Rollie is perhaps one of the biggest overachievers
    in college basketball, and the '85 performance is overwhelmingly the
    largest such example in my life as a college hoops fan.
    
    But two years ago, recall, it was Bob Knight and the Indiana Hoosiers
    who enjoyed acclaim as the #1 recruiting class.  They got something
    like 4 or 5 of the top 50 players to add to Mr. Basketball Eric
    Anderson's sophmore year, and that didn't even include Calbert Cheaney
    who was also recruited that year but was completely overlooked as far
    as recruiting goes.
    
    That year, Indiana lost in the first round of the NCAAs to the
    California Golden Bears.  So Bob went out and finished the 5 years of
    recruiting of the High School Player of the Decade(!) and added Damon
    Bailey to the stellar cast, and lost in the round of 16.
    
    So, Glenn, if you want to address the propAganda issue, Dean Smith who
    went further both years has been criticized about 500 times as much.
    
    Dan

 I don't know Chris, I don't follow the recruiting with the veneance that you
 do. It's not the highlight of the season for me that it is for UNC fans
 cause we all know it's downhill after that. Could be that he had one of
 the top 10 maybe top 5 but still no big man. Also even if he did have a
 top 5 it was probably the first time he did unlike the Rev. The win against
 SU certainly would disqualify the claim of choke this year but let's face it
 even if you consider this year a choke for Rollie when you hold it up 
 against the litany of choke the Rev has it becomes so microscopic you need
 an electron-scanning scope to fine it....

 mike

    Dan,
    
    Other than Bob Hunt's kudos to Digger about his grad rate - who is
    holding him up as an idol?  I'm glad he's gone.  He had some big wins
    (as I said), but also pointed out his penchant to Dean(TM) in the big
    one.   But then again, you used to insist that I liked Lou Holtz, when
    I've never liked him (cept when he left the Jets - HA!).  But that's
    typical of your logic, Dan.
    
    And in today's USA TOday, here's some stuff:  "Since the Kelly Tripucka
    years, the club has not had the number of players necessary to be a top
    20 team."  But according to Dan (and Chris), Notre Dame has 'loads of
    talent".   
    
    (Side Note:  Dan's absolute hatred of anything ND is well documented in
    this notesfile - though he'll never admit it, claiming objectivity -
    just like Nixon claimed he wasn't a crook.....)
    
    Anyway, Digger is gone, and no one seems to be complaining (cept Jim
    Valvano, who claimed his 'firing' sends the wrong message - that grad
    rates don't matter, winning does - of course Jimmy should know...)
    
    Now if ND would boot Lou, they'd have achieved a great double in 91.
    
    And Dan - who'd you rather have coach the one big game you hadda win -
    and you had to choose between Bob and Dean the Choke?
    
    Even ACC Chris acknowledged you'd want Bob for the one big game (cuz
    Bob ain't gonna Dean(tm) the game....)
    
    JD

Since we've all agreed that recruiting is part of a coaches job....

Digger's gotta be one piss poor coach to not be able to recruit the studs to
ND. 

Personally I think Digger's been one of the biggest underachievers year in and
out on the hoops scene. He's had good talent (not overpowering like you know
who) but very good talent and still manages to consistantly finish around .500.
(he'd be a hero in Seattle).....

While deano manages to consistantly choke away the big game Digger's done a lot
less with the talent he's had. He just does it in a non spectacular way...


Metz

    re: .148
    
    Exactly Metz.  Recruiting is the single most important thing a college
    coach does.  If he cain't recruit, nothing else really matters.  
    
    
    re: JD
    
    If you're going to use my words against me (I'd take Bob as a single game
    coach over Dean) then you should at least have the honesty to refrain
    from saying he 'chokes', since in the very same note (17.991) I
    explained 'The System', explained that Dean doesn't choke, and got
    ringing endorsements from, among others, BobHunt and yourself.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >(Side Note:  Dan's absolute hatred of anything ND is well documented in
    >this notesfile - though he'll never admit it, claiming objectivity -
    >just like Nixon claimed he wasn't a crook.....)
    
    Yeah, so I hate ND, their sanctimony and their hypocrisy and all the
    advantages that they exploit so shamelessly.  So what?
    
    That still doesn't say anything about the hypocritical stance people
    have taken on him relative to Dean Smith.
    
    >And Dan - who'd you rather have coach...
    
    Since you and Bob both have ducked all the questions I asked over in
    the ACC note about the intellectually dishonest standards you apply to
    Dean, I'll wait for you to answer them first.
    
    Dan

    Dan,
    
    Standard applied to Dean??  Dishonest intellectually?  I don't think
    so.
    
    FACT:  Dean Smith's TarHeels are year in, year out, filled with talent,
    from end of bench to end of bench.
    
    FACT:  DEan Smith's teams have great success in the regular season.
    
    FACT:  Dean Smith has led his team to exactly one title.  His teams
    regularly lose to inferior teams in the big one.
    
    FACT:  While Dean is lauded as an all time great, and put up with
    Wooden, Rupp and Knight, he's an embarrassment when matching them in
    number of titles won (10-5-3-*1*).
    
    FACT:  Despite overwhelming talent, blind loyalists for fans, and
    legend status, Dean has as many titles as Tark, JT, and Jimmy Valvano.
    
    No one has done less with the amount of talent given them.  No one.  He
    employs a rigid system that repeatedly fails.  
    
    Dean's player list reads like a vertible Who's Who in basketball - the
    only other program I can think of with such luminaries is UCLA (and
    titles are 10-1 in favor of the Bruins).  
    
    JD

    FACT: JD claimed that Dean is a poor coach.
    
    FACT: JD backed off that and then claimed Dean is a poor "Big Game"
          coach.
    
    FACT:  I asked JD if the ACC tourney and the NCAA tourney constitute
    	   "Big Games"
    
    OPINION:  JD was too scared to respond, as his subjectivity caught up with
              him.
    
    Oh, by the way...
    
    >FACT:  Dean Smith's TarHeels are year in, year out, filled with talent,
    >from end of bench to end of bench.
    
    No, that's OPINION.
    
    >FACT:  DEan Smith's teams have great success in the regular season.
    
    That's a fact.
    
    >FACT:  Dean Smith has led his team to exactly one title.  His teams
    >regularly lose to inferior teams in the big one.
    
    First sentence is fact.  Second sentence is OPINION.
    
    >FACT:  While Dean is lauded as an all time great, and put up with
    >Wooden, Rupp and Knight, he's an embarrassment when matching them in
    >number of titles won (10-5-3-*1*).
    
    This one is true in number of titles, but the use of the word
    "embarrassment" makes it sort of laughable and a shining example of the
    lack of depth of the analysis.  Obviously, there's more to the
    deserving of the company Dean keeps than just counting titles,
    something shallow analysis loses sight of.
    
    >FACT:  Despite overwhelming talent, blind loyalists for fans, and
    >legend status, Dean has as many titles as Tark, JT, and Jimmy Valvano.
    
    Ditto.  Titles number is a fact; the rest is typical JD-style bogus
    propaganda.
    
    Dan

 Geez, you Hare Smithnas must really love *PAIN*.  Tell ya what, Schneid,
 I'll make ya a deal.  A good old fashioned agreement between me and you,
 just two guys from Jersey.   I gotta do something to help ease your
 suffering.
 
 I'll stop this merciless beating on this Dean Smith dead horse until
 college hoops cranks back up again next fall and winter.  I've said about
 all I can possibly think of for this year on this matter anyway.   I've
 written short notes, medium notes, and long notes about ol' Snuff.  
 Anybody who doesn't know my position on the Rev by now just ain't playing
 with a full deck.
 
 So, that's it.  I'm done.  Finis until nexted year.
 
 What do you have to do ???
 
 Simple.   You agree to allow me and any of the other Anti-Deans in here
 the complete and total freedom to enjoy, ponder, contemplate, and dream
 about what was perhaps Smif's finest anti-moment in his long and
 distinguished anti-career.  March 30, 1991 was a day I'll never forget as
 long as I live.   I can't remember a Carolina loss I've enjoyed more than
 that one.  Kansas 79, North Carolina 73.   You allow me (us) to enjoy that
 memory and I (we) will shut up until nexted season.
 
 Surely you can see the wisdom of this deal, Dan-o my friend.  Soup, of
 course, is a lost cause.  No doubt he'll be in here to get his weekly
 whuppings.  But you, Dan, are under no such delusions.   Give yourself a
 rest, Dan, ol' pal.  You deserve it.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.  Digger Phelps was an honest coach.  Dean Smith still is an honest
 coach.  They both deserve credit for that.   Their underachievements are
 not related to their integrity as you tried to insinuate.  But we'll let
 that slide ...

Meanwhile Pete Gillen from Xavier turned the hioops job down, claiming to
be plenty happy where he wuz, thank you. Rich Marjerus from Utah also
said no to the job, claiming he didn't own a tie and Notre Dame was
"Brooks Brothers".

TTom

 >You allow me (us) to enjoy that
 >memory and I (we) will shut up until nexted season.
    
    Do you really have that kind of control over your lobotomized subjects?
    
    It's all yours.
    
    Just remember, UNC was a pre-season (Vitale) 4th, finished the season
    3rd or 4th out of 290+ teams, won your precious ACC, went further in
    the tourney that 61 out of the other 64 teams there, and all this in
    the face of one of the toughest schedules in the country and not even a
    pre-season all-ACC player.
    
    But you guys tear him down and then lionize 10-22 Digger Phelps in the
    space of two weeks.  Go figure.
    
 >Their {alleged} underachievements {using slippery subjective standards}
 >are not related to their integrity as you tried to insinuate.
    
    I never insinuated or implied any such thing.  Don't know why you would
    infer it either.
    
    Dan

>    Do you really have that kind of control over your lobotomized subjects?
    
    Assuming you are referring to the Dean Bashers, of which I am one, you
    are inferring that we are all following Bob Hunt, our frontal lobes
    severed, listening to rhetoric to convince us of a point not of our own
    volition.
    
    Sorry, Dan, I think for myself and attempt to be objective; I make
    mistakes now and then and also admit or shutup when I'm wrong.  
    
    But should there ever be a need to follow, if I'm of the same opinion
    as one Bob Hunt, I'll trail him down any analytical path there is.  His
    proven ability to recall fact and figures and make people like you and
    Chris squirm until your butt cheeks are tighter than Mike
    Kzyxzyxzyxzyzxy's(tm) lips is most enjoyable.
    
    I, for one, am ready to put the Dean Bashing to rest because it's just
    no fun fighting fact (Bob Hunt) with fiction (you and Chris).
    
    Are you man enough to let it end?  Or at the least, take it out of this
    topic?
    
    	--dan'l

    >I, for one, am ready to put the Dean Bashing to rest because it's just
    >no fun fighting fact (Bob Hunt) with fiction (you and Chris).
    
    If you care to document some of my alleged fiction, feel free to.  But
    I bet I can find 5 pieces of fiction or opinion posing as fact for
    every one you successfully document.
    
    >Are you man enough to let it end?
    
    I didn't know it was a manly sort of thing to do.  Geez, I always have
    so much trouble with these subtle tests of my masculinity.
    
    Dan

>    I didn't know it was a manly sort of thing to do.  Geez, I always have
>    so much trouble with these subtle tests of my masculinity.
    
    Mebbe it's because evidence of your masculinity is so subtle.
    
    Mark.

> March 30, 1991 was a day I'll never forget as long as I live.   I can't 
> remember a Carolina loss I've enjoyed more than that one.  Kansas 79, 
> North Carolina 73.   You allow me (us) to enjoy that memory and I (we) 
> will shut up until nexted season.

And March 9, 1991 is a day *I'll* never forget as long as *I* live.  

Imagine watching poor Ketch explain to the poor wittle 'packet' ketchups
(who're cute as buttons, BTW) that the beloved Cavaliers had dropped a
huge one in the ACC Tourney to (gulp!) the hated Tar Heels.  Why, you shoulda 
seen the tears rollin' down their poor faces, I'll tell ya ...  

I think I heard one of em saying something like 'But daddy, isn't that the
third time they've beaten us this year?', but it was hard to tell 
cause Bob had clamped his hand round her mouf quick as a cat, so it was
kinda garbled.  I was gonna pipe in and explain to them all how UVa has only
managed to win twice in 70+ tries at Chapel Hill, but I thought that
woulda been kinda inhospitable.  Heh heh!

Ultimately though I guess I've learned something about Cavalier fans.
Since their own team lets them down so much they have to seek solace
elsewhere.  In this case it's in the fact that Carolina "only" made it
to the Final 4 before getting beaten.  

To each his own, I suppose.


- ACC Chris
    

    RE: Packet Ketchups
    
    That's a good one, Chris.  And they sure are cute too.  In fact, I'm
    Sarah Beth's boyfriend (at least until she gets past the age where she
    can reason better).
    
    Yes, those microHUNTS are one of the cutest lots I've ever encountered. 
    However, they obviously didn't do the dirtiest of all deeds for you,
    Chris.  I'm talking about when Bob says, "Who do we root for?" fully
    expecting the Wahoo yelp and instead they say:
    
    
    
    	Go Tigers!
    
    Must be something in that South Carolina water.  Sorry, Bob.
    
    	--dan'l

 That's okay, Dan'l, rest assured that the MicroHUNTs have since seen the
 light and have quickly realized (once again) just who butters their toast
 for them.   We no longer hear "Go Tigers!" when "The Sheriff" is in town. 
 
 "Go Wahoos!" is the appropriate cheer now for the HUNTcluster.
 
 Actually, I've been working on a new one ... maybe I can get them to demo
 it for you nexted time you see them.    I line 'em all up, say "Go Tar
 Heels!" and they immediately grab their cute little throats and start
 hacking.
 
 At first when they asked "Why, Daddy?", I simply said "Dean".
 
 "Oh, how silly of us.  Of course," they said.   "Sorry, Daddy, that *was*
 a little obvious, wasn't it?"
 
 Fine young'uns, I'm tellin' ya, they got *real* potential.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Scene from the Hunt Household, circa 1997
    =========================================
    
uHunt:	"Daddy, why do you hate the Tar Heels so much?  All my friends
	like them, and I think their uniforms are cute!"

(insert confident 'I know the answer to this one!' look on BobHunt
 as he quickly responds from behind his newspaper)

Hunt:	"Because Dean Smith, their former coach, was a choker."

(insert look of puzzlement on uHunt)

uHunt:	"But daddy, he's the all-time winningest coach in college basketball
	history.  How can you say he was a choker?

(insert long pause as Ketch huffs and puffs before finally putting
 his paper down)

Hunt:	"Well, ... because he always had so much talent, honey."

(reinsert look of puzzlement on uHunt)

uHunt:	"Sounds intellectually dishonest to me, dad.  *I* think it's cause
	they beat Virginia so much and you're just sore at 'em."

(insert picture of BobHunt's face turning fire engine red as he
 orders his insightful daughter to go wash her mouth out with soap)


- ACC Chris
    
    

 Good one, Soup.  Rollward.
 
 Of course, the conversations will be a lot shorter and more to the point
 in your domicile, won't they ???
 
    {insert image of Soup holding his head in his hands shortly after the
    heavily-favored Tar Heels lose to Phil Ford-coached Massachusetts in
    the Sweet Sixteen that same year}
 
 Little Soupette then wanders by, sees the sad result and says ...
    
 Little Soupette: "{cough} Again ??? {hack} {cough} {wheeze}"
 
 Soup: "Something wrong with your throat again, sweetie ???"
 
 Bob Hunt

    Scene from the Knorr Divorce Trial, circa 1999
    =============================================
    
    {Chris is on the stand and his wife's lawyer is grilling him something
    good about cheating on the misses.}
    
    Lawyer: So, Mr. Knorr, would you not say it was your wreckless
    lifestyle that led to these proceedings?
    
    Chris: I don't know what you mean.  I'm the underdog here.  
    
    Lawyer: Mr. Knorr, I refer to your blind devotion to one individual.
    
    Chris: It's not blind.  I have the facts to prove it.
    
    Lawyer: Oh and so do I, Mr. Knorr.  You have been living with this sin
    for quite some time.
    
    Chris: Sin?  What sin?  Is it a sin to worship the greatest of all
    time?  Sure they worked for so much, but got so little, but I still am
    in love.
    
    Lawyer: So you admit it?
    
    Chris: Yes, I admit it.  
    
    Lawyer: And have you had any encounters since?
    
    Chris: Since when?
    
    Lawyer: Since March 9, 1991.
    
    Chris: Why yes.  Every year from November to March.
    
    Lawyer: Mr. Knorr, I am utterly shocked that anyone could do that to
    their wife.
    
    Chris: Do what?  It's just a game.
    
    Lawyer: Just a game, Mr. Knorr?  You are a sorry sort.  And does that
    bimbo call it a game also?
    
    Chris: No, Dean Smith calls it the 'system.'
    
    Lawyer: Dean Smith?  Mr. Knorr, I am not talking about Dean Smith.  I
    am referring to one Pepper Shaker, who stipped you down to your BVD's
    and paraded you around on stage before hundreds of men.
    
    Chris: Pepper?!?  Why that was just something that Dan'l and Bob Hunt
    put me up to.  It meant nothing to me.  I was quite humiliated as a
    matter of fact.
    
    Lawyer: Humiliated, Mr. Knorr?  On the contrary.  Evidence supplied to
    us by Misters Hunt and Medvid from note 37.160, Notre Dame, from your
    SPORTS conference says:
    
>And March 9, 1991 is a day *I'll* never forget as long as *I* live.  
    
    Chris: Um...{cough, gag, cough}...so about how much alimony am I going
    to have to pay?  
    

>>And March 9, 1991 is a day *I'll* never forget as long as *I* live.  
    
>    Chris: Um...{cough, gag, cough}...so about how much alimony am I going
>    to have to pay?  
    
    Haaaaaaaah!  Beautiful, dan'l, beautiful.  Set up nicely.  Good work.
    
    glenn
    

  �  Just remember, UNC was a pre-season (Vitale) 4th, finished the season
  �  3rd or 4th out of 290+ teams, won your precious ACC, went further in
  �  the tourney that 61 out of the other 64 teams there, and all this in
  �  the face of one of the toughest schedules in the country and not even a
  �  pre-season all-ACC player.
    
 Geez, you Hare Smithnas make this *SO* incredibly easy.   I mean, I *LOVE*
 it when you all talk like this.  "Thighshuddery" doesn't even begin to
 come remotely close to describing the intensely rapturous and most
 triumphant sensations this stuff produces.
 
 The above "we-feel-sooooo-good-anyway" rationalization of the Carolina
 season is a walkin' and talkin', livin' and breathin' eee-pit-ooo-meeee of
 the famous Tar Heel Excellent Loss Theory.   Yep, here it is, in bold
 living Technicolor ... The Hare Smithnas shouting to the whole world ...
 
 	YIPPEE !!! 
 			WE'RE TIED FOR NO. 3 !!!  
 	YIPPEE !!! 
 			WE FINISHED WHERE VITALE SAID WE WOULD !!!
 	YIPPEE !!!
 			WE BEAT DUKE THREE WEEKS TOO EARLY !!!
 	YIPPEE !!!
 			OUR SCHEDULE WAS REALLY TOUGH !!!
 	YIPPEE !!!
 			OUR PLAYERS WEREN'T RATED VERY HIGH !!!
 	YIPPEE !!!
 
 Face the facts, boys.   You had it in your grasp.  It was there.  All you
 had to do was just take it.   Sheet, I was even willing to admit that had
 UNC gone ahead and lost to Vegas in the Final Two that the Heels would
 still have had a *GREAT* season.   But, alas (giggle!), Dean is still
 wondering how much time he's got left ...
 
 So, thump those hollow chests.   Beat those tin drums.  Puff out those
 saggin' cheeks.   Smile those limp little smiles.   Because we *LOVE* it.  
 C'mon, boys, let's get some popcorn and cold brewskies and sit back and
 enjoy this show.    I'm sure Pepper would enjoy it, too.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Latest rumor from several sources (ESPN being one)
    
    John Shumate is in the running for the head coaching job. He was
    Digger's asst for three or four years and has the rep as a good
    recruiter. The "Shu" was the backbone of the ND teams in the early
    to mid 70's and I'd like to see him get a shot at it.
    Don't know what his committment is to SMU though.
    
    MikeL
    

    Re: .86
    
    Walter Berry.....He's playing in Spain (for a team originally coached
    by St. John's U. 6'8" Fr. SF Sergio Lyuk's father, who was fired by the
    owner early in the season; boy, talk about connections).
    
    Berry is averaging 37ppg, and taking home $1M+, with a free auto and
    home, to boot.
    
    Redmen Phil
     

    I was out last week when this all hit the fan.  My impressions of the
    whole thing are as follows:
    
    I'm not sure how much of an underachiever Digger was during his ND
    career.  My feeling is that Notre Dame sports other than football are
    overrated in general because of the great success of their football
    team.  Notre Dame basketball has gotten far more attention over the
    past few years that it's deserved based on its record.  What other team
    was on National TV so much this year with a losing record?
    
    Notre Dame could be a national power in hockey if they wanted to since
    the only other Division 1 Catholic universities are Merrimack,
    Providence and Boston College.  To me, the fact that they don't have a
    stronger hockey program is a disgrace.
    
    I will grant you that Notre Dame under Digger has run a very clean
    program with high standards yet at the same time probably should have
    gotten a little more talent and probably should have done a lot more
    with what they've had.  Unlike football, where they and Boston College
    really corner the market in recruiting from Catholic high schools,
    there's a lot more competition for those same kids in basketball, and I
    think that has worked against them a little bit.
    
    To me it's very contradictory and there's no clear answer.
    
    John

    John,
    
    RE ND Hockey - ND Hockey was pretty good for a while, and then ND
    dropped the program completely.  About 4 years ago, they started up the
    program again.   
    
    ND also used to have an annually high-ranked cross country team, but
    they've fallen back a little - they rarely recruit foreign entrants -
    and the NCAA X-C and track champeenships are generally won by teams
    with foreign runners.  While Ireland would seem to be fertile ground
    for recruiting in these sports, Villanova and Providence have long been
    the first home of many Irish runners, with strange as it seems,
    Arkansas also a strong recruiter of Irish talent.
    
    HTH.
    
    JD

    Bobby Cremins has announced his decision regarding Notre Dame!
    
    (Drum roll please ...)
    
    Cremins has decided that he will
    
    NOT, repeat, *NOT*, be leaving Georgia Tech.
    
    (And all the Techhaids breathe a sign of relief.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Thanks for the info, Chris.  
    
    I'm glad Cremins is staying put.  He's got a great thing going at Tech
    and I hope he stays there for a long time.  Looks like he will.  
    
    Who now?  How come no one wants this job?  Too much pressure?  Has
    Notre Dame backed themselves into a corner?  Will they now go after
    Danny Nee?  How about Valvanno...too corrupt...too much of a negative
    image?  Boeheim if he gets the Syracuse boot?
    
    I know that all three of those are far-fetched, but I can't think of
    any other candiates right now.  Maybe it will end up being one of
    Digger's assistants or some Division II coach.
    
    	--dan'l

 Interesting turn of events ...
 
 Methinks the good Fathers of Notre Dame are finding it just a little
 unbelievable that this particular job vacancy is viewed with as much
 enthusiasm as, oh, say, a root canal operation.
 
 One wonders if it's the, ahem, "high moral standards" of coaching in
 South Bend that's making this job so tough to fill or if it could be
 the perpetual second fiddle shadow cast by Touchdown Jesus on the
 entire athletic program at God's Own School.
 
 Reminds me of the sad song-and-dance the Atlanta Falcons did a couple
 of years ago before they finally realized that nobody wanted the job
 except for perpetual retread Marion Campbell.
 
 Bob Hunt

    A while back, PJ Carlesimo (Seton Hall's coach) was mentioned as a
    possible successor to Digger -- is this talk now dead?  (I hope so...)
                                                                 
    
    py

    When you put aside the mythical 'Notre Dame reputation' the hoops job
    is very unattractive at best, at least when compared with, say,
    the Georgia Tech job or even Seton Hall.
    
    Consider:
    
    o ND is not in a hoops conference, and everybody knows conferences are
      *everything* these days.
    
    o ND plays in northern Indiana.  (Nothing personal folks, but Cremins 
      has lived in the south since he enrolled for college at South Carolina,
      and I don't think he was too keen on the Midwestern weather.)
    
    o ND places high expectations on their coaches.
    
    o The inner-city players that form the backbone of your typical
      McDonald's All-America squad couldn't give a rats-behind about
      the mythical ND tradition.
    
    o ND is, at best, the second most popular school in Indiana, probably
      3rd when Purdue has a decent team.  Hence they must recruit 
      nationally.  Hence see above bullet.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

 Good points, Chris ...
 
 All of which further illustrate the original point ...
 
 Digger Phelps was perfect for the job.  Hell, he *craved* it.   He
 was willing to put up with the recruiting hassles, the squeaky clean
 image, the second banana status to football, even the meddling of the
 well-meaning but naive good Fathers who run the place ...
 
 He lived to coach Notre Dame hoops, did it better than most could
 have been expected, did it with honor, dignity, and class ... and
 then got booted for it.
 
 No wonder they're having a tough time filling the job.  The best
 candidate was just given the heave-ho.   Maybe the good Fathers will
 remind themselves of the old proverb which taught that the best
 diamonds are often found right in your very own backyard.
 
 Bob Hunt

 PJ said no thanks PY....his next job will be with the Pros...but he's got
 such a good young team that he may even decline pro offers for awhile.
 He also wants that olympic posistion and if he coached pros I think he'd
 have to give that up as well....

 Cremmins also loves Atlanta from what I understand but as Chris said the
 biggest thing is the conference tie in...without you can't recruit even
 at ND with all their TV time....

 mike

    
     Here in Springfield Mass, we knew Cremmins was staying put at Tech
    since last week.  Seems he made a personal call to his No. 1 recruit,
    Travis Best to assure him that he was staying put.  If Cremmins went,
    Travis would of transfered...
    
    							bill..g.
    

    One of the seedier sides of "Live in These National Collegiate Athletic
    Associations" is that *if* Cremins had left then Travis Best would've
    still been bound to Georgia Tech.  At this point he'd have had two (2)
    options:
    
    1. Transfer (and sit out 1 year)
    2. Pray that Georgia Tech would release him from his letter-of-intent.
    
    I believe that if a coach leaves a program then an incoming freshman
    should be immediately released from his obligation, but the NCAA ain't
    usually into this kind of 'free agency' stuff.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    re: -1
    
    	Chris, Cremmins called Best last week to assure him that he was
    staying put.  Why would Cremmins call and tell him if he didn't know?
    He surely would of known that if he did leave, Travis would of 
    transfered because one of the main reasons Travis selected Tech, was
    because he liked Cremmins.  
    
    							bill..g.
    

    He told him that so the kid wouldn't panic and transfer.  
    
    Why would he tell an incoming frosh something he wouldn't tell the
    media, his current players, his ex-players (Dennis Scott talked to him
    a day or 2 before the announcement), or his assistant coaches?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Well it appears Notre Dame has finally found their main.  John MacLeod,
    currently the Knicks coach, appears to a lock to replace the Digster.
    
    Does anyone understand this?  I assume MacLeod is "Irish Catholic", or
    perhaps a alumnus?  I also assume he has some college coaching
    experience, although it must've been a *long*,*long* time ago.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    The National had a very cynical note in there.  It said that ND was
    sick of being turned down by "name" coaches so it went for someone who
    is about to be unemployed and wouldn't turn them down.
    
    If I was a coach, I wouldn't want the Notre Dame job.  It's one thing
    to live with the recruiting restrictions and those in and of themselves
    aren't bad.  Duke and Stanford, to name two, do OK with similar rules. 
    The lack of being in a conference is a problem (I believe, at least
    philosophically and geographically that ND should be in the Big Ten)
    but when you add to them the unrealistic expectations given to other ND
    sports because of their great football program (I said before I believe
    ND basketball is overrated because of their football success), it's
    truly a no-win situation.  I'd also be upset at the apparent lack of
    support given to Digger by the Notre Dame administration.
    
    John

    > Does anyone understand this?  I assume MacLeod is "Irish Catholic", or
    > perhaps a alumnus?  I also assume he has some college coaching
    > experience, although it must've been a *long*,*long* time ago.
    
    MacLeod was a_excellent coach at Oklahoma in the early 70's when I
    lived in Norman.  He brought the Sooners out of basketball obscurity 
    for a few years with future NBA players like Clifford Ray and 
    Garfield Heard.  With that success, he moved on to the Suns...
    
    Besides, why would it be that difficult to move back to the college 
    ranks from the pros?  I think MacLeod would only have to get back 
    into the swing of recruiting, alumni stroking, and the motivational 
    aspects of coaching young kids.  On the court, he should be fine...
    
    glenn
    

>    Besides, why would it be that difficult to move back to the college 
>    ranks from the pros?  I think MacLeod would only have to get back 
>    into the swing of recruiting, alumni stroking, and the motivational 
>    aspects of coaching young kids.  On the court, he should be fine...
    
    Recruiting, alumni stroking, and motivating young kids probably
    comprises upwards of 80-90% of a college coaches job.
    
    The fact that MacLeod was a successful college coach in the early 70's
    is a plus, but alot has changed since then.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I would guess that ND could only align itself in a basketball conference, as
the football team's television contract is too lucrative to split up.

Who could ND hitch up with?  DePaul comes to mind.  Then who?  Marquette? They
need at least six teams, I think, to qualify for an automatic tournament bid as
a league.

    DePaul and Marquette *did* go off and join a conference.  ND, in their
    infamous wisdom and arrogance, declined.
    
    This has caused them even more scheduling problems because, where they
    once could count on two (2) games with DePaul, they now will only get
    one (1).
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Kind of dead in here considering it's almost time for the season
    to begin. Can anyone tell me what time the ND and Michigan game
    is Sept. 14th, is it a night game or an afternoon game? I hopeit's
    a night game, I have tickets to the B.C. Georgia Tech. game on the
    14th.
    
                                                      Dan
    

    Dan,
    	I believe I have the information on the ND-Michigan game at my
    house. If I do, I'll post it first thing in the AM. I believe the
    game is in the afternoon but will verify.
    
    MikeL
    

    Word has it that Holtz' "special" referees can only make the afternoon
    of September 14.  Not wanting to chance objective referees, Holtz then
    called the NBC network and had them strong arm the NCAA and Michigan to
    move the game from the nighttime.
    
    Dan

           
>    PS. I still have that Lou Holtz autographed picture and copies of the
>    last eight ND-USC game tapes if'n ya want 'em. 
   
    Yea, but do you have tapes of the 4 consecutive games from the mid-80's 
    where AF knocked off the Irish, Mike?  :^) :^)  
    
    Joe

    Touche, Joe
    They was real butt-kickin by AF too. But do wins over Faust-led teams
    count?  Who were the other teams?  BTW Joe, I lost dem tapes in a flash
    flood, or was it a flash fire. Whatever. However, I miraculously saved
    the last three ND-Michigan tapes!  :^)
    
    Hey Dan,
    Nit. Since this is an away game, the game won't be on NBC, so Holtz
    can do all the complainin' to them and it won't do him no dang good.
    NYah,NYah. (Sheesh ain't he gone yet !! ) :^)
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Joe,
    
    	I think AF is the only team to accomplish that feat.
    
    	HTH
    
    	Claybone

    I know USC beat ND at least three in a row ( 70-72, and 74-76 ). If
    they beat ND in '69 that would make it four in a row. I believe that
    ND and USC played to a tie in '69 though.  I'm sure somebody did it
    during their miserable years pre-Faust ( '56-'63 ). Anyone have a stat
    book?
    
    MikeL
    

>    They was real butt-kickin by AF too. But do wins over Faust-led teams
>    count?  
     
    Of course they count, Mike!  If Irish fans can boast of all
    those national titles they won in the days of the leather helmets,
    Faust-coached teams certainly aren't discountable.
    
    RE: 4 in a row
    I don't remember real well, but right after the AF streak I do recall
    reading that Air Force joined an elite group as being only the 3rd
    school ever to beat ND 4 straight years.  I think the other 2 schools
    were USC and Michigan State.  Miami may have beaten the Irish 4
    straight times in the 80's, but I think they took a year off in '85 or
    '86.
    
    Joe

    Just being facetious Joe. We have to take the
    good with the bad
    
    BTW, the Michigan-ND game will be played at Ann Arbor beginning at 
    2:30 PM, EST. Not sure which network.
    
    MikeL
    

    As always, I'll look it up tonight.
    
    John

    Dan C.
      I haven't seen the BC schedule. Besides plaing Ga. Tech on 9/14,
    don't they open at home against Michigan on 9/7? Wow, they'll be
    completely devastated after these two games. Thay might as well mail
    in the stats for the rest of the year. Cripe and I know they play
    Miami at home at some point on their schedule. Tough way to try to
    jump start the program. Git your rosary beads out.
    
    MikeL
    

    BC does play Michigan on 9/7 but opens against Rutgers on 8/31.
    
    As for the question regarding the network, that brings up the question;
    is CBS even carrying any college football this season.  I sure hope so,
    because I really like the people they have covering their games.
    
    PS Mike: I knew you were just kidding, but I had to get back at ya! 
    :^)
    
    Joe

    BC's schedule at home is something like this: Michigan
    						  Georgia Tech
    						  Louiville
    						  West Virginia
    						  Pittsburgh
    						  Miami
    
    Their away schedule isn't much better. This team really needs to tone
    down there schdule a little. The thing is I go to one or two games
    a year and have for the last three years and haven't seen them win yet,
    the thing is the games haven't even been close. I went to a game two
    years ago against Navy and Navy was like 1-5 but they were able to
    blow out B.C. When ever I show up the guys that are season ticket 
    holders always say well look who's here, we'll have the grills going
    at half time again.  
    
                                                    Dan
    

    Syracuse, Penn State, Rutgers, Temple and probably Army on the road
    too.
    
    They play a killer schedule, there aren't very many good Division 1-A
    calibre players in this part of the country, they don't compromise on
    academics and their facilities, while improved, are not on a par with
    those of other schools.
    
    I have some degree of sympathy for them, but not much.
    
    John

    I believe that they have N.D. on the road this year also. I like
    what the new head coach said, if we finish 6-5 this year we 
    will deserve to go to a bowl game.
    
                                               Dan
    
       

    BC doesn't play ND this year but I'm pretty sure these teams are
    meeting within the next few years.
    
    Joe

    I know for a fact that BC is at ND on 11/7/92. I only have ND's
    schedules through '92 so I'm not sure if BC plays ND any other time in
    the 90's. I'll try and find some of ND's future schedules.
    
    While glancing at a few publications, I saw tidbits of ND's games in
    the 90's. Shoot I'll have to rummage through the stuff I have at home
    to see if I can find their schedules for the 90's. Anyhoo, I know that
    ND picks up Florida St in 93 and 94 to replace Penn St. ND also plays
    Ohio St in '95 (replacing Michigan for a year). The disturbing part
    is that I believe that the Irish resume their yearly rivalry with
    Northwestern starting next year. Yech.  
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    Boy will that be an interesting series, Florida ST. and ND, I can't 
    wait for the start of the season, what a week from today I believe,
    Penn ST. and Georgia Tech. and then the next night is B.Y.U. and 
    Florida ST. Bring it on.
    
                                                     Dan

 If I know that sissyass Holtz he'll schedule the games against Fla St. during
 the the first two weeks of the season when the Seminoles usually choke. You
 know he doesn't want to meet them near the end of the year...You can also bet
 the bank if the Seminoles win these two games the series will be drop...

 mike

    Mike, I concur.
    
    Mark.

    Notre Dame has had "pure" (4 losses in 4 years) losing streaks to the
    following teams:
    
    Air Force		1982-1985
    Southern California 1978-1981
    Michigan State	1960-1963
    Northwestern	1959-1962
    
    Other notable Irish losing streaks are as follows:
    
    Penn State		Lost 6 of 7 from 1981-87
    Miami		Lost 4 of 5 from 1983-87
    Pitt		Lost 5 of 6 from 1932-37
    Southern California	won only 3 of 15 from 1967-1981 (2T included)
    			Lost 3 in a row from 1931-33
    Purdue		Lost 3 in a row from 1958-60 and 1967-69
    Michigan State	Lost 8 of 9 from 1955-1965 (DNP 1958-59)
    Iowa		Lost 5 of 6 from 1956-61
    
    Irish losing streaks are easier to pick out than Irish winning streaks
    since they've won so many games and the losses really stand out.  To be
    fair, here are some comparable winning streaks:
    
    Navy		27 straight from 1964-present
    Michigan State	current 4 game winning streak and 13/14 from
    			1969-82
    Miami		10 straight from 1971-80
    Purdue		4 straight 1946-49 and 8/10 1946-55
    			8/9 from 1970-78 with only loss being in 1974
    			current 5 game winning streak
    Pittsburgh		6 straight from 1943-48
    			14 straight from 1961-74
    Southern California	current 8 game winning streak
    			4 straight from 1951-54
    			5 straight from 1957-61
    
    Neither list is by any means comprehensive or complete.
    
    John

    Mike and Mark -
    
    Over the last 2 decades, what college has team has consistently played
    one of the toughest, if not the toughest schedule in college footballl?
    
    What team did that while other 'powers' moved to use Mr. Childs
    expression 'sissyass' schedules?
    
    What team gets vilified by turkey fanswhen they do what the rest of
    college football is doing and eases their schedue?
    
    Answer:  Notre Dame
    
    THe IRish could schedule the Bears, 49ers, Giants, Bills, Dolphins,
    Skins, Raiders, Cheifs, Eagles and the Steelers and you'd complain that
    they were ducking the Bengals...
    
    I agree with you all on one thing however, Lou Holtz sucks.  I hate
    that guy.  Wish he'd go to a program that would appreciate
    his'talents', like Oklahoma, Miamior another cell block 19 school
    
    JD

    Thanks John, great job as usual. Ironic thing about Northwestern's 
    four straight wins over the Irish 59-62, is that I believe that Ara
    Parseghian was Northwestern's head coach,n'est-ce-pas?
    
    Found ND's schedules through '95. They be as follows:
    
                            1991
    
    9/7       Indiana
    9/14      at Michigan
    9/21      Michigan St
    9/28      at Purdue
    10/5      at Stanford
    10/12     Pittsburgh
    10/19     at Air Force
    10/26     USC
    11/2      Navy
    11/9      Tennessee
    11/16     at Penn St
    11/30     at Hawaii
    
    
                       1992
    
    9/7       at Northwestern (Soldier Field,Chicago)
    9/12      Michigan
    9/19      at Michigan St
    9/26      Purdue
    10/3      Stanford
    10/10     at Pittsburgh
    10/24     BYU
    10/31     at Navy
    11/7      Boston College
    11/14     Penn St
    11/28     at USC
    
                         1993
    
    9/4       Northwestern
    9/11      at Michigan
    9/18      at Michigan St
    9/25      at Purdue
    10/2      at Stanford
    10/9      Pittsburgh
    10/16     at BYU
    10/23     USC
    10/30     Navy
    11/20     Boston College
    TBA       Florida St ( possibly scheduled in between Navy and BC)
    
                           1994
    
    9/3       at Northwestern (Dyche Stadium, Evanston )
    9/10      Michigan
    9/17      at Michigan St
    9/24      Purdue
    10/1      Stanford
    10/8      at Boston College
    10/15     BYU
    10/29     at Navy
    11/19     Air Force
    11/26     at USC
    TBA       at Florida St (actually at Orlando,probably scheduled between
                             Navy and Air Force games)
    
                         1995
    
    9/2       Northwestern
    9/9       at Purdue
    9/16      Vanderbilt
    9/23      Texas
    9/30      at Ohio St
    10/7      at Washington
    10/14     at Army
    10/21     USC
    10/28     Boston College
    11/4      Navy
    11/18     at Air Force
    
    
    I'm sure NBC is going to love ND starting off with Northwestern at
    home in '92 and '94. TV sets will be clicking to other channels in 
    the 2nd quarter. I hate to see this rivalry resume. Unless things
    change, this is nothing but an automatic win (see I can criticize
    ND ). Don't want to see 'em going the way of past Miami (East Carolina,
    San Jose St )
    
    I believe that Florida St was added to only fill in the hole when Penn
    St opted to drop the Irish because of Big Ten (11) commitments. Not
    sure if they added FSU to future schedules
    
    PS Mike and Mark, You'll have to do better than that to reach the nadir
    ( rock bottom) of soon-to-be-dearly-departed Drano.
    
    Bobby Bowden is doin' that horse before the game!
    
    
    

    JD,
    Only black mark on yo' reasonin is that ND has signed on Northwestern
    for the next few years. Hate to say it as a ND alum, but that looks
    to me like easin' their schedule by one game anyhoo. Patsy time ain't
    too digestible to this grad. 
    
    MikeL
    

    For all you Irish rooters, some current insights on the personnel
    depth chart for the upcoming season
    
                       Offense Depth Chart
    
                           Tailback
                           1. Rodney Culver- Sr.
                           2. Willie Clark-  So.
                           3. Tony Brooks-   Sr.
    
                           Fullback
                           1. Jerome Bettis- So.
                           2. Ryan Mihalko-  Sr.
    
                           Quarterback
                           1. Rick Mirer-    Jr.
                           2. Kevin McDougal So.
                           3. Jake Kelchner- Jr. *
    
    
    TE                  RT                    RG
    1.Derek Brown-Sr.   1.Lindsay Knapp-Sr.   1.Aaron Taylor-So.
    2.Irv Smith-  Jr.   2.Winston Sandri-Sr.  2.Chet Lacheta-Jr.  
    
    C                   LG                    LT
    1.Gene Mcguire-Sr.  1.Mirko Jurkovic-Sr.  1.Todd Norman-Jr.
    2.Tim Ruddy-   So.  2.Stuart Tyner-  Jr.  2.Jordan Halter-Jr.
                                                Justin Hall-Sr.  
    
    Flanker              Split End            Kicker/Punter
    1.Adrian Jarrel-Jr.  1.Tony Smith-Sr.     1.Craig Hentrich-Jr.
    2.Clint Johnson-So.  2.Lake Dawson-So.    2.Jim Sexton-    Sr.
    3.Mike Miller-  Fr.
    
    Offense looks pretty solid. They will be expected to put a lot of
    points on the board as it is a pretty experienced outfit at all
    positions. Question marks on backup QB and flanker (Ismail replacement
    Right now the backup to Mirer is the soph,Kevin McDougal,an option QB
    resembling Tony Rice. Jake Kelchner,a junior QB who was neck and neck
    with Mirer for the starting job just preceding last year is now slated
    third. His is a special case which I will explain later. Flanker
    position will be tough to fill with the departure of Ismail. Jarrel
    is solid but not flashy,Johnson is quick but small and unproven.ND
    is hoping that freshman Mike miller out of Texas will eventually fill
    the bill at flanker. He supposedly has the same speed and quickness
    as Ismail with better pass-receiving capabilities. who knows, all
    incoming frosh at all schools have glowing press releases. we'll see.
    
    
                   Defense  Depth Chart
    
    LT                       NT                   RT
    1.George Williams-Sr.    1.Junior Bryant-Jr.  1.Bryant Young-So.
    2.Bernard Mannelly-Sr.   2.Peter Rausch- Sr.  2.Brian Hamilton-So.
 
    LOLB                     ILB                    ILB
    1.Anthony Peterson-So.   1.Demetrius Dubose-Jr. 1.Jim Flanigan-So.
    2.Nick Smith-      Jr.   2.Brian Ratigan-   So. 2.Pete Bercich-So.
    
    ROLB                     LC                     RC
    1.Devon McDonald-Sr.     1.Tom Carter-So.       1.Rod Smith-Sr.
    2.Oliver Gibson- So.     2.LeShane Saddler-So.  2.Greg Lane-So.
    
    SS                       FS
    1.Greg Davis-Sr.         1. Jeff Burris-So.
    2.George Poorman-Sr.     2. John Covington-So.
    
    Well there you see the reason why ND's offense will probably have to
    score a lot of points. The front line only returns Williams. The loss
    of Zorich and Alm up front will hurt. At linebacker there is good
    experienced starters returning in Dubose and Mcdonald. Flanigan also
    saw plenty of action. Can this group jell without Stonebreaker and
    Grimm returning? We'll see. And actually the much-maligned secondary
    from last year is returning intact. Hopefully they will play as well
    as they did in the last three games last year.
    
    Me prediction: 10-2 or 9-3.
    
    Notes:
    
    1.Jake Kelchner, who after spring practice in 1990 was rated just behind
      Mirer,was dismissed from the University for academic reasons just
      prior to the start of the '90 year, has applied for re-instatement to
      the University. The official decision was to be made on 8/1. and all
      lokked fine. He was arrested on 7/25 for DWI,blowin a .14(.10 is
    legally drunk in Indiana.) His status remains unclear. My belief is
    that he will be re-admitted to the University but suspended from the
    football team for this yr.(that's what Stonebreaker got)
    
    2. BJ Hawkins, sophomore QB, who probably would have been the backup
       to Mirer this year, decided to transfer to the University of
       Virginia. He'ss sit out this year and try to become UVA's starting
       QB next year. Reports are that he'll have a good shot there as
       Virginia's starting QB this year is a fifth year Sr.
    
    3. Dorsey Levens, junior tailback, who probably would have been third
       on the depth chart, transferred to Georgia Tech. Said he was dis-
       satisfied with his status on the team. Hope he can play at Ga.Tech.
       He was an excellent TB until he injured his knee in practice before
       last year's season. In fact he was rated the #1 TB going into the
       '90 season before his injury. He had beat out both Ricky Watters and
       Tony Brooks for the starting job last year. He never regained his
       pre-injury form however.
    
    
    Well, that's it and that's also enough. On to the wars.
    
    
    MikeL
     
      
              
    

    Three ND football players won't be playing this fall
    
    1. Defensive lineman George Williams was declared ineligible for
    personal reasons.  Williams was the only returning starter
    on the line from last year's squad. Three newcomers will have to fill
    the bill. The loss of Williams in addition to the graduation of Zorich
    and Alm will hurt. No other information as to the reasons why Williams
    was declared ineligible. He is a 5th yr senior
    
    2.Backup offensive RT Winston Sandri was not admitted to grad school
    meaning he would have been a 5th yr senior. Some soph should be able
    to take his slot. However, Sandri played quite a bit last year and
    I don't believe the tackle position is that deep.
    
    3.Jake Kelchner, who was arrested for DWI and was seeking re-admittance
    to the University, was denied admittance to ND follwing his arrest.
    Kelchner has subsequently enrolled at West Virginia where he will sit
    out one yr. and be eligible to play for the Mountaineers in '92.
    Kelchner would have brought some stability to the backup QB role.
    If Mirer gets hurt, the Irish are in trouble.
    
    Not good news
    
    MikeL
    
    
    BTW both Williams and Sandri 

    Excellent news!
    
    Mark.

    Mark -
    
    Too bad the DWI guy didn't go to Miami (or UNC for that matter).  He'd
    be looked upon as a role model and probably be team captain.
    
    JD

    Yeah JD, and the guys who couldn't make grad school cuz of their grades
    would fit right in.
    
    Mark.

    Corrections to the Irish depletion report
    
    On George Williams- DT
    He was not declared permanently ineligible from playing as I originally
    stated. Because of "personal problems" he has been temporarily denied
    participation in the football program. He has not been classified as
    suspended, but rather on a week to week basis. Holtz stated that he
    could not elaborate but that there was no timetable for his possible
    return. He denied that Williams' problems were academic.
    
    The Irish added DT Troy Ridgley to the squad. Ridgely was declared
    academically ineligible for the 1990 season and was dismissed from
    the University. He was recently re-admitted in August and was declared
    academically eligible for the 1991 season. Ridgely played quite a bit
    in the '89 season platooning with LT Bob Dahl and RT George Williams
    Hopefully he can add some experience and ability to the green defensive
    line. After a year off, it might take a few games for him to regain his
    form if possible.
    
    Not all is bleak on the "D" line.
    
    MikeL
    

 That's it Mark, you got the idea now...;^)


  >  He was not declared permanently ineligible from playing as I originally
  >  stated. Because of "personal problems" he has been temporarily denied
  >  participation in the football program. He has not been classified as
  >  suspended, but rather on a week to week basis. Holtz stated that he
  >  could not elaborate but that there was no timetable for his possible
  >  return. He denied that Williams' problems were academic.
   
  another words he won't kiss Lou's ass so he's temporarially exiled...
 
>    The Irish added DT Troy Ridgley to the squad. Ridgely was declared
>    academically ineligible for the 1990 season and was dismissed from
>    the University. He was recently re-admitted in August and was declared
>    academically eligible for the 1991 season. Ridgely played quite a bit
>    in the '89 season platooning with LT Bob Dahl and RT George Williams
>    Hopefully he can add some experience and ability to the green defensive
>    line. After a year off, it might take a few games for him to regain his
>    form if possible.
    
 Uhm were short guys on the line who can we activate let's see?? In August
 of all sudden this guy is eligible? Looks like Lou learned his lesson's
 well in the Big 8.......

 mike 

    Ridgely had applied for re-admission to the University in May after
    completion of one yr at a local JC to make up some credits and bring
    his grades up. Policy at the University is to review each case and
    render a decision by August 1 of the pending school year. He was 
    deemed fit to be re-admitted, was able to retain his football
    scholarship (not relevant to his re-admittance), and was eligilbe
    to participate in the football program. He was purposely left off any
    depth chart because no indication is or was ever given from the
    asdmissions office to any sports department regarding re-admission.
    Holtz has nothing to do with either admission or re-admission. I
    know you're smirking, Mike , but dat's da troof. BTW, the option I
    described is open to all students. My ex-roommate went through the
    same routine and he hated sports (only went to two football games at
    ND while he was there Sacrilege!). In addition to attending a local
    JC, each candidate must take summer courses at ND in the subjects
    in which he/she was deficient. Thus the 8/1 decision timeframe.  
    
    Williams' case has nothing to do with any infraction of University
    rules because he wasn't put on any type of probation. He has broken
    no University rules. He was declared temporarily ineligible by the
    football staff for no infractions but because of "personal" problems.
    If more comes out,I'll post it here. Holtz is not,IMO, trying to hide
    anything. If it is in Williams' best interest at this point not to
    elaborate, then let's respect the decision.  In fact I use Williams'
    name because he was a projected starter. Two other football players
    who were way down on the depth chart,namely Walter Boyd and Rusty
    Setzer,were also not allowed to  participate on the football team.
    Again these cases were determined by the football program, not
    the University disciplinary or academic administrations. These last
    two were not associated with Williams' case. 
    
    I see no evidence of "rules loosening".
    
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    Let me re-clarify.
    Any candidate for re-admission can attend another college as long
    as ND accepts their credits. If one decides to go to a JC (one
    approved by ND,and it don't have to be local), one must also take
    summer classes at ND.
    
    HTH
    MikeL
    

    Mirer and some other guy were arrested for DWI.  They will not be
    suspended by Holtz, though; he will  repremand them "in some other
    way". 
    
    Yeah, right.  THey won't be allowed to play in any football games in
    February.
    
    NAZZ
    
    PS - IF this were Miami, the ND jihad would be screaming bloody murder.

    
    Yo Nazz,
    
    	This is ND where the Athletic Dept has little or no say in
    disciplinary matters. I saw Holtz on TV over the weekend. He said
    (and other reports backed him up) that it appeared to be a case of
    overzealous officers and that they might not even have been drunk. 
    They were not arrested for DWI. They weren't driving. They were charged
    with being "drunk and disorderly" from what I saw. Holtz said he would
    let the civil authorities take their course of action before mkaing any
    judgements. He also stated that the university will investigate and
    act accordingly. If these guys are indeed guilty the civil and
    university authorities will act and Holtz can sit back and twiddle
    his thumbs without taking any blame for any actions.
    

    No Nazz,
    Mirer and LB Demetrius Dubose were arrested on Friday night at an
    off-campus party for public intoxication and disorderly conduct, not
    DWI. I saw a small notice in Sunday's Globe. Around noontime on Sunday
    I saw an interview on NBC with Marv Albert and a local NBC affiliate
    newsman from NBC. In brief, the two, Mirer and Dubose , attended a
    block party of sorts along with an estimated 600 other people. Mirer
    was quoted by the local newsman as having a beer and 1/2 two hours
    before the cops showed up. No other information was given. The local
    newsman also quoted a South Bend PD Lieutenant stating that he doubted
    very much that either Mirer or Dubose was either intoxicated or
    disorderly. I heard nothing else until I saw the same one-line note
    that Holtz would suspend neither. That's all I know so far.
    
    As far as Holtz learning disciplinary lessons from Dean Smith, nothing
    could be further from the truth. His past history proves that. Two
    examples that come quickly to mind. A. Holtz suspending starting
    tailbacks Rickey Watters and Tony Brooks for the huge 1988 USC-ND #1
    vs #2 football game for being late for practice one time during
    game week. B. 1978 Orange Bowl. As Arkansas head coach, suspending
    two or three top players for infractions just preceding game with
    then #1 Oklahoma. His teams won both games, BTW.  If there is anything
    to this story, believe me Holtz will suspend them both. This might be
    a case of much ado about nothing, with the two players being guilty
    of nothing but stupidity. I will post any news I hear on this item.
    
    MikeL
     
    
    
    

       I dislike ND as much as the nexted guy. But everything that's come
    out so far sounds like these are trumped up charges. A cop at the scene
    is quoted as saying these guys looked okay to him. Also, they were
    refused a breathalyzer test! If theiy're being charged with being
    drunk, that's outrageous!
                                  Denny

    Nazz -
    
    The police have said that neither player was drunk.  They were not
    driving either.  If they were driving, and drunk, I'd sure hope they
    be'd suspended from the team.  
    
    The police carted off a bunch of folks from a block party.  This
    happens at all university's.  ND, Northeastern, Miami.  When I was
    Northeastern, the Boston Police locked up over a 100 students during a
    block party. One of them, a friend of mine, was walking home from work
    and walked onto the block the party was happening on.  The Boston
    Police officer grabbed him and threw him into a paddy wagon.  He spent
    the night in jail.  This happened more than once at NU, BU, BC and even
    at an MIT frat party.
    
    As stated in .227, in the past Holtz has disciplined players.
    
    JD

    Any of you Midwestern ::Sportsters have any further news on this
    subject?  Most likely info sources; Chicago, Indy, mebbe even the Fort
    Wayne sales ofc. (don't think South Bend has a DEC ofc )
    
    MikeL
    

    Hey JD,
    ND's got a freshman Offensive tackle, goes about 6'4, 265 lbs, from
    Yakima, Washington, goes by the the name of Ryan Leahy (grandson of
    ND coaching great Frank Leahy). He seems to be quite impressive in
    practice from what I read. I guess he narrowed his choices to
    ND, Washington, and UCLA before deciding on the Irish. Any information
    you can further supply?
    
    MikeL
                              

    Mike -
    
    I can check some sources.  I vaguely remember an article about him
    inthe local paper.  They were bummed that he went to ND instead of UW.
    
    JD

    Well, the football Hoosiers have attained their dream at last, and
    will play UND on national TV next weekend.  They got the game cuz
    UND had a one year hiatus between the end of the Miami series and the
    beginning of its replacement series.
    
    All we Hoosiers cain hope for is a creditable showing.  Not getting
    blown out, stomped, or otherwise humiliated so publicly will go a long
    way to bolster recruiting that has been medicore recently and simply
    awful before than.
    
    Go Hoosiers, BEAT THE IRISH !
    
    Big10 Tom

    T,
    
    Don't be discouraged yet. IU returns 24 lettermen and played a heckuva
    game vs Auburn in a bowl game last year. I think the first half and a
    little beyond will be real competitive. Mallory's a good coach and
    the Hoosier's won't git blown out.
    
    ND 28, IU 17
    
    MikeL
    
    I'd love ta see MacLeod deefeet BobKnight fer once, sumpin' that Digger
    could hardly do.
    Tired od seein' nuthin but Red in the ACC.
    
    BTW, as you are well aware, UND= University of North Dakota in das
    hinterlands.  Jes' plain ole ND will do fer the Irish.
    

    	Awright T!  Anything less than an Irish 20 point win would have
    to be considered a moral victory for the Indiana students against
    the Notre Dame football factory.
    
    				/Don

>    <<< Note 37.235 by AXIS::ROBICHAUD "Homer,Plato,Voltaire,DonKing,MrT" >>>
>    	Awright T!  Anything less than an Irish 20 point win would have
    
       Hey Chap, you better send somebody around to hose down the slasher.
    Sounds like he's got a case o' premature adulation!!
                                       Denny  ;^)
    

    
>    Go Hoosiers, BEAT THE IRISH !
   
    YEAAAA!!!!  I second that! 
 
    
    Joe_Hoosier_fan_for_a_week
    

    Right Joe,
    Yer just a-shakin in yo boots for the week afta' whence said Irish
    goes inta Ann arbor and whups dem projectile-defecatin' Wolverines.
    Den as I had predicted in 10.169, watch Bo durin' the scoreboard show
    8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    JD,
    	Thanks for the info on Leahy. No need to look anything up. Just
    wanted to see if'n you had any handy poop on him. Saw his picture
    in a ND football mag and he's a spitting image of his grandfather.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Tidbits before the big IU-ND clash;
    
    
    Coaches
    IU- Bill Mallory, 8th yr at IU, 37-42-2
    ND- Lou Holtz,    6th yr at ND, 46-14
    Both coaches were assistant coaches together under Woody Hayes for
    OSU's 1968 national champeeenship team
    
    1990 records
    IU- 6-5-1 overall, 3-4-1 in Big Ten, 27-23 victor over Auburn in Peach
    Bowl
    
    ND- 9-3, 10-9 losers to Colorado in Orange Bowl
    
    Series: ND leads 22-5-1
    Last ND win: 18-0, 1958 (last game played) at Notre Dame Stadium
    Last IU win: 20-7,  1950 at Indiana
    
    IU returns 18 starters. Players to watch for IU are on offense, Vaughn
    Dunbar, tailback. Dunbar was the third leading rusher in the Big Ten
    last year. On defense,LB, Mark Hagen ,team's leading tackler.
    Also the entire IU offensive line returns including (HAHAHA) All-
    America candidate OT Randy Schneider ( !!?, Nah, can't be ). MrT, how
    cain ya root fer your alma mater with a Schneider in the lineup!!
    
    
    On the lighter side, a rumor regarding Lou Holtz being offered an 
    opportunity  to succeed Hank Peters' as President and COO of the
    Cleveland Indians was denied by Indians co-owner Dick Jacobs, a
    personal friend of Holtz. A source close to Jacobs stated that he
    had considered offering Holtz the job because he was influenced
    by the hiring of former Michigan football coach Bo Schembechler
    at Detroit. The source was quoted as saying " It's their( Indians
    owners) that if he (Schembechler) can do it, Holtz can do it a lot
    better"  HAHAHAHA. I didn't say it!  What is it with Bo, doesn't
    anybody respect that guy!.  A further ironic twist is that the story
    perpetuating the rumors was written by Cleveland Plain Dealer
    columnist, get this, Russell SCHNEIDER !! Dan's placed a curse on
    ND and Holtz. Jeez, and I thought we were rid of him 8^), 8^)
    
    
    MikeL 
    

    
    
    	 ATTENTION ALL N-D JIHAD MEMBERS!!!!!
    
    
    
    		ATTENTION ALL N-D JIHAD MEMBERS!!!!!
    
    
    
    
    	 NBC has announced that they are going to have a "NOTRE DAME
    
    KICK-OFF SPECIAL" on Saturday 1/2 hour before the Fightin' Irish
    
    take the field against IU.  Here's your chance to worship, get
    
    excited, swoon, ahhhhh, and probably wet your pants - EVEN BEFORE
    
    THE KICK-OFF!!!!!!
    
    			
    Don't miss this religious event!!!!  Program your VCR's NOWWWWWWWWW!!!
    
    HTH
    
    Kev
    

    Yea Kev,
    	I'm disgusted by it already. I cain only envision ND football
    going the way of those hated Cowboys. Too much exposure, haves vs
    havenots. Sigh, 'tis a torn grad I am
    
    MikeL
    

    
    MikeL,
    
    Did I give the impression that *I'm* disgusted?  Gee, I really
    
    didn't mean to do that!  All I wanted to do was provide N-D Jihad
    
    members with information which may have not been made available to
    
    them, resulting is extreme depression and all that.
    
    Actually, I'm 100% passive when N-D is mentioned ('cept in BBall
    
    when they play(ed) LOUIEEEEEEE).  Couldn't care less, just performing
    
    what I thought was a public service announcement.
    
    
    (giggle, giggle)
    
    Kev
    
    

    
    File this baby under CS (luv that line from American Graffiti)
    
    The South Bend PooLeeece Dept' prosecutor has dropped all charges
    agin Mirer and Dubose.
    
    Applaud, Applaud   Love it when the local gendarmes don't invoke
    a circle the wagons stance.
    
    MikeL
    

    I stand corrected regarding the DWI comment.
    
    Your humble servant,
    
    NAZZ

    Nazz,
    You wasn't wrong by commision, jest omission. A leetle hazy on the
    facks, dat's all
    
    MikeL
    

 I don't know why you're applauding Mike. It shamefully obvious to me
 that someone was bought off for the good of the school.....I find it
 hard to believe that Mirer only 1 1/2 beer as the good ole story first
 came out...

 I hope the cops enjoy their tickets to the game/s.........

 mike

    You've been schooled well,grasshopper. 8^) Do some investigation before
    you instinctively bash. 
    You are obviously suffering from a form of erysipelas of the part of
    the brain that controls logic.
    
    I applaud * in general * the actions of any PD that admits it made
    a mistake and takes the corrective actions necessary. Again the
    South Bend pooleece did not do the *instinctive* thing that you are
    guilty of. 
    
    But you may someday, Mike, reach the desired position recently vacated
    by Dano.
    But for now, tis just an instinctive brush akin to a studley horse
    swatting away pesky flies. 8^), 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    ND got off to a slow start but still managed to lead 28-17 at the half. 
    After the 1st quarter their offense looked pretty good.  IU hung tough
    early, grabbing the lead on 3 separate occasions.  That TD by ND's
    backup tight end (#84) where he carried for about 15 yards was
    incredible.  ND's offense looked porous for the most part.
    
    NBC's pre-game was disgusting.  They have that little "Notre Dame
    Saturday" logo up in the corner during the whole pre-game like HBO or
    something.  Then Ahmad has to tell us about the fight song while the
    band waits for the cameras to say they can start playing.  Then, of
    course, we get to listen to the fight song in its entirety.  Oh, yeah,
    at the very end of the pre-game show they manage to give us a few
    scores of other nationally ranked teams.  Geez, thanks guys.
    
    Walsh was making a fool of himself.  He says IU is beginning to be worn
    down by the ND defense near the end of the 1st quarter.  Hey Bill, they
    may be out-manned, but they *are* a middle-of-the-pack team in the 2nd
    toughest conference in America.  And I was rollward just before IU was
    about to go up 10-3.  They had a first and goal at the ND 5, and Walsh
    said, "Here's where it gets tough for Indiana."  The IU QB (Green?)
    runs the option and promptly breaks about 5 takcles in that 'tough' ND
    defense.  For the next telecast he should just show up in his ND
    jacket, hat, and pom-pom.
    
    
    Joe

    So Joe - why do you watch it?  I refused to watch it.  And I'm an ND
    fan.  First, I don't like Walsh or Ahmad anyway, and second, I avoid
    the hype that ND is subjected to by the networks (as are other 'big'
    schools...)
    
    The ND guy carried the cornerback 25 yards for that score, FWIW.
    
    Now, only is Stanford could have beaten the huskies...
    
    JD

    Joe,
    	I was wonderin' if Walsh was watching the same game also. If IU
    was getting "worn down" they sure hid it well from me! ND's offense
    did look inconsistent in the first half, but in the second half
    started to put it together (kinda like UM, wouldn't you say? 8^).
    As I stated in earlier notes, ND's defense is gonna be hard pressed.
    I was not impressed. They're pretty young and hopefully they'll
    improve. I wish they had Northwestern instead of Michigan this
    coming week! Offense is going to have to carry the load for the
    early part of the season anyway. Might be too heavy a load, time shall
    tell. Let's give IU credit. I think they'll be real competitive in the
    Big Ten even though they were ranked 6th or 7th in the conference.
    
    As far as the pre-game baloney, I didn't even watch it. I'm sure
    it was full of the syrupy praiseology(TM) towards ND. Mixed feelings
    on this TV deal have I.
    
    MikeL
    
      

 stop it JD your killing me hahahahaa  like ND's real innocent in this hype 
 game...

 I tried to watch some of the game but between, Walsenbergh oh my-ing it
 and the ND refs I switched to tennis...

 MikeL just remember little flies get to be big flies some days  ;^)

    MikeC,
    
    Methinks the flies might be a multiplyin' soon too! 8^)
    
    MikeL
    Who-knows-that-ND-always-has-the-noblest-of-intentions-cuz-it's-in
    -the-freshman-orientation-book 8^)
      

    PAY UP LEARY !!  MrT COVERED BY A LUCKY SEVEN HAA.
    
    re: The Game
    
    Walsh was talking about IU becoming worn down later in the game cuz
    a their smaller size and lack a depth.  He never said they were worn
    down in the 1st quarter, he said that they would be by the 4th and he
    in fack was rat on with that thought.  Walsh, to my mind, is by a wide
    margin the best grid analyst I've ever heard.  Especially enlightening
    is his emphasis of the timing of passes, and he called a perfect game
    as far as the inside blocking patterns for both OLs.  I thought Bill
    was very kind to IU... having Walsh announce a_IU game at The Shrine,
    The Altar a college grid was a best case scenario, especially at the
    moment IU had grabbed their 3rd lead with 5 1/2 left in the first half,
    after which the Hoosiers' crumble began.
    
    Holtz is a great game coach.  That one sides kick was a brilliant call
    and it hurt IU's thin chances badly.
    
    One other thing: the play with the ND fullback carrying the player in
    is overrated cuz 1) tired small IU players did a lousy job of tackling,
    and 2) a_ND WR came over and pulled the FB in from the five, a_illegal
    play that wasn't called (not that it woulda made any difference).
    
    It's dispiriting to see that Trent Green just hasn't progressed.  Maybe
    he will, but IU has missed on many fine QBs they tried to recruit, and
    Mallory clearly recruited Green to be a backup, the reasons why clear 
    to anybody who saw the game.  He's a gutsy kid, but if he hadn't thrown
    4 perfectly wretched bad passes for interceptions IU mighta made a game
    a it.
    
    How 'bout that Vaughn Dunbar?  Cain he run or what.  IU has a brutal
    road schedule (Michigan, State, Iowa, Mizzou) but based on Saturday's
    performance I feel that maybe they cain pull a_upset or two and get
    into a cheep bowl.  Anything, including the loss at Notre Dame, that
    helps their recruiting!
    
    Big10 Tom

    T read yo'VM you pusillanimous puppet of BobKnight 8^)
    
    Actually, I was referring to Walsh's statements near the end of the
    first half when he first referred, a coupla times, to IU beginning
    to crumble. Not at that point.  He seemed ROT the second half. 
    
    Saw quite a bit of red-clad downstate DD-resemblin' AH-U supporters
    there. No sir, mebbe in hoops, but NEVER in foosball. Should halp
    their recruitin' as pointed out. 
    
    Nexted week, those eye-blinkin', lips-a-quiverin', laigs shakin', knee-
    knockin', weepin',heart-a-palpitatin',palms a sweatin',stutterin'
    trouser-urinatin',projectile-defecatin', excuses laden, chokin' and
    a-gaggin', wheezin'and a-hyperventilaten' pencil-necked geeks from
    ann arbor, bovine(2nd meaning of woid) Wolverine
    
    Cain't wait.
    
    MikeL
     

Don't pay up!

That's not MrT.  Hear me now, believe me later, we're closing in on the
fact that the REAL MrT is working for a small software firm in 
downtown Minneapolis.

Someone, or *something* has obtained the account that MrT used to use.

Hold that payment until we know for sure who or what is going on here....


'Saw

    Any thoughts on the game, I can't see ND winning this one this year,
    I think their Defense is too young and inexperienced. The Offense will
    need to put about 30 points on the board. But you never know, I can see
    it now Michigan up by about 10 points going into the 4th quater, and 
    then giving it away.
    
    
                                                           Dan

    The Irish have a big edge in Mirer versus Elvis.  This could cause
    the Wolves to run run run, which might not work if Mirer goes crazy
    with the frozen ropes.
    
    Big10 Tom

    	Michigan should win, but they'll blow it somehow then spend
    the rest of the year claiming they *should* be the best team in
    the country.
    
    				/Don

 BTT are you starting to wavier or just putting on your OA hat?

    Why Dan, you must be prescient! I had the same dream. Goin' with my
    emotions and still smellin' that aroma waftin' in stronger and stronger
    from Ann Arbor.
    ND- 31
    UM- 28
    Mo' reasons on Friday
    
    Series facks:
    
    Michigan leads series 13-9
    Last Notre Dame win: 28-24, 1990 , Notre Dame Stadium
    Last Michigan win:   24-23, 1986 , Notre Dame Stadium
    Current streak: 4 by Notre Dame
    Longest ND Win Streak: 4, 1987-1990
    Longest UM Win streak: 8, 1887-1908 ( back in them old leather-helmeted
                                          days, right Joe C ? 8^)
    Last Michigan national championship: 1948 ( see above 8^))
    Last ND national championship:       1988
    
    
    
    MikeL
     

    Forgot a couple
    I like to bash UM, but a couple of stats that show both schools
    tremendously successful football history
    
    Winning % in college football
    1. Notre Dame at .759
    2. Michigan   at .743
    
    Most wins in college football
    1. Michigan-   712
    2. Notre Dame- 692
    
    And, Michigan is ND's only regular opponent with a winning record
    (13-9)  agin' the Irish.
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Michigan needs to get ahead early and get the crowd rockin' and
    rollin'.  Some good points (no pun intended) have been brought up
    regarding the fact that Michigan should be able to put plenty of points
    on the board.  'Rines winning going away.....
    
    Michigan by 14 or more, ND drops out of top 10.
    
    Joe

    Simplification of keys to win:
    
    For ND
    
    Defense- Front seven has to semi-contain Michigan's running attack
             and muster some kind of pressure on Grbac. ND's secondary
             is not weak but needs some pass rush by the front guys to
             negate Michigan's passing attack.
    
    Offense- Line MUST win Gigantic struggle vs Michigan's front seven
             to get some kind of running attack. If Mirer can get decent 
             protection he will move the ball consistently via the air 
             as Michigan's defensive secondary is a little suspect.
    
    Michigan needs to get up early on the Irish and keep ND's offense
    off the field and behind by 10-14 pts all day. Semi ball control.
    
    
    Still say
    ND- 31
    UM- 28
    
    
    MikeL
       
    
    

    re .264
    
    In other words, the Irish git their butts spanked and go off the
    grass in Ann Arbor with red tushes and a lot a lessons to mull
    over.  So much the better.  I commend you on your carefully worded
    pre-emptory admission a defeat, MikeL!
    
    Big10 Tom

    I admit no such thang, suh!
    
    YOU read between the lines and draw your own conclusions. I look,
    objectively, at the match and deem that the Irish need to play
    a more perfect game than Michigan. However, I also feel that Notre
    Dame can play that type of game, carefully instructed and manipulated
    by that craftsman, Holtz. Pressure is all on Michigan. I am respectful
    of the Blue's potential prowess, but not fearful. My confidence
    level is high. Irish will play with purpose, and put the pressure on
    the tentative Wolverines. First TWO possesions are key.
    
    MikeL
      

    Well, I just finished a very unpalatable breakfast of crow, thank you
    very much.
    
    Not much time to comment this am, but congratulations to Michigan, they
    were the better team, and deserved the win. No excuses, we got whupped.
    Later.
    
    MikeL
    

>    Simplification of keys to win:
>    For ND
     
>    Offense- Line MUST win Gigantic struggle vs Michigan's front seven
>             to get some kind of running attack. If Mirer can get decent 
>             protection he will move the ball consistently via the air 
>             as Michigan's defensive secondary is a little suspect.
    
>    Michigan needs to get up early on the Irish and keep ND's offense
>    off the field and behind by 10-14 pts all day. Semi ball control.
    
    Looks like you were right on the nose for these keys, MikeL.  ND's
    offense didn't get much of a running game going, but they were able to
    move the ball through the air when Mirer got the protection.  Also,
    Michigan got more than 'semi-ball control' with 40 minutes of possesion
    time.
    
    The call that I wonder about is when ND had that 4th and ten around
    midfield and about 6 or 7 minutes left, trailing by 10.  Why in the
    world didn't Holtz go for it?  He had a 4th and 2 early in the 3rd
    quarter around the UM 40 and he gambles.  UM jumped offsides on that
    one.  So why doesn't he gamble late in the game when they're still down
    by 10?  I can't buy the reason that he had confidence in his defense. 
    They hadn't stopped Michigan in 3 downs-and-out all day with UM's 
    devastaing OL and time-consuming drives.  It was like he was giving up
    if you asked me.
    
    ND is finally starting to use Derek Brown like the All-American tight
    end he is.  He gets open, catches well and is tough to bring down.  
    
    
    Joe
    
      
    

 Well the crow for my prediction ain't all that bad. How bad can it be when
 ND looses?? ;^)

 Powers got shafted, he was the MVP in my book...Gerbac 20-22 who'd have 
 thunk it????

 I guess Michigan's fall will come later....still can't believe the 4th
 down call. Somewhere else maybe but at Michigan NO WAY!!!

 and the thing is ND wasn't really fooled they were there, Howard made a
 greart play...

 great laugh too when they played the Diedorf tape that sent Mirer to ND
 instead...

 hahahaaaa

 mike

    MikeL, what do you expect of the game this week?...Or better yet, do
    you have any idea what to expect, with ND coming off a loss and MSU
    coming off the big upset loss.
    
    After watching Michigan run all over the Irish defense, I would expect
    them to run Tico Duckett extensively, even though MSU's O-line hardly
    resembles Michigan's.  I guess the Spartan defense is pretty young, but
    if they come around their ball-control offense could make this one
    interesting.  But you can't help but believe that Holtz will have ND
    more than ready to play.
    
    Joe

    Joe,
    	I was as shocked as anyone about the State game, but I expect them
    to come to play in South Bend. The Spartans historically have played
    the Irish real tough in South Bend and I have no doubt that Perles( Wif
    aig steel on his visage) will have his team pumped. He no doubt will
    remind his troops of last year's game as incentive. Remember, State
    plays real physical football ( The Irish players have consistently
    stated that for the last 5-6 yrs, MSU has been their most physically-
    demanding opponent , including Michigan ). State seems to catch the
    Irish at the right time, immediatly following an emotional game with
    Michigan. However, and this is no dig at Michigan, for the last few
    years excluding this one, the Irish have had a winning hangover (also
    no derision of MSU intended here ). This year, they'll still be 
    emotionally hungover, but in a major ugly way. They'll be ready to
    kill by Saturday (as would State I would imagine). 
    
    Even with their egos and bodies bruised, the Irish should beat
    the Spartans by at least 10. I don't know much about MSU, however,
    I do know enough from history to know that ND never underestimates
    them. With the Irish D and its non-tackling rep, they shouldn't
    underestimate anyone. Lets me do some research on this game and I'll
    be back at ya.
    
    Trip down memory lane: When I was in school at ND, we never played
    Michigan and we always played State. Two of my most memorable "road
    trips" were to East Lansing in '72 and '74. Even as far as two miles
    from the campus, all you had to do was close your eyes, take a deep
    nostrily-type breath, and you were in Jamaica 8^). And I still can't
    look at a Harvey Wallbanger without getting sick!
    
    MikeL
     

    Just read in the paper that the heralded freshman Mike Miller has
    dropped out of school and gone home.  Says he doesn't like the
    comparisons to the Rocket and all the pressure being put on him.  He
    may transfer to a SWC school.
    
    Joe

    re .271
    
    Oh yeah, East Lansing is a MAJOR party town.
    
    MSU may be underrated at this point.  Apparently Central Michigan
    has an awesome defense (ranked in the top 3 in the nation) that cain
    play with anyone.  Add that to Perles breaking in a new QB and you
    had your basic recipe for disaster.  State has a lot a skeel player
    talent and he'll adjust his O-plan to attack the weaknesses showed
    in the Irish D during their previous two games.  Remember: The lowly
    Hoosiers, with maybe the worst major college QB in the nation, ran 
    up 425 yards on the Irish.
    
    Bill Walsh kept saying that if Green hadn't missed wide open receivers
    about 20 times they coulda won.  And the Irish steal needed some real
    smart trick play calls by that genius game coach Lou to put the game 
    out a reach!
    
    Big10 Tom

    If it's true about Miller,then, asta-la-vista baby.(pardon sp,syntax
    etc) A fair % of freshpeople cain't adjust long away from home and
    with the added pressures of foosball and comparisons to Rocket 
    obviously have proved to be too much. ND was looking for him as a
    projected great one down the road. He's from Dallas so his second
    choice (Texass) might be gittin' a call from him.
    Wish him luck and hope he gits his haid together( Translation:
    Spineless quitter!) 8^)
    
    T,
    Ranked #3 CMU?  by whom. Don't they play all Mid-American foes?
    Not 'zacktly talent-laden conference. MSU will give Irish a good
    tussle
    
    Jest read that ND has added MIAMI to its schedule in the mid-late 90's
    (not sure exact year.) Unfortunately, it's the freakin' Ohio entry,
    not Florida. (mebbe they're replacin'  Northwestern fer one year)
    
    MikeL
    

    Said their *defense* was rated 3rd in the nation, and yes, they 
    play pud foes but generally go up against their tough opponents
    (i.e., nonconference teams) during the first few games.
    
    Big10 Tom

    Week 3, Tale of the Tape
    
    ND Vs MSU
    
    Series: ND leads 37-18-1
    Current win streak: 4, by ND ( '87-'90 )
    Longest ND win streak: 8 (1897-1909, leather helmets)
    Longest MSU win streak:8 (1955-1963)
    Last ND win:20-19 at Spartan Stadium, 1990
    Last MSU win: 20-19 at Spartan Stadium, 1986
    
    Michigan State returns the Big Ten offensive player of the year in
    1990, TB Tico Duckett, along with All-America candidate Courtney
    Hawkins, flanker and return specialist. MSU is quarterbacked by
    UCLA transfer, Bret Johnson. State returns a veteran offensive line
    that averages almost 300 lbs per man, tackle to tackle. They obviously
    rely heavily on the run. I hope Holtz was watching the films of CMU's
    defense stopping the Spartans.
    On defense, Michigan is anchored by All-America candidates Bill Johnson
    at DE( 308 lbs , what are they feeding these boys) and MLB Chuck
    Bullough.
    
    It looks as if MSU will try the same tack as IU and UM, run the ball
    down the Irish throats. I don't think they have the athletecism and
    versatility of Michigan, so if the Irish can stop the Spartan run 
    attack (big if), they should stall MSU's offensive thrust.  State
    also returns with a strong D, so the Irish will have a tough time
    establishing a consistent running game. They should be able to move
    via the air.
    
    Interesting side story. MSU measures strength by how many times a
    player can bench press 225 lbs.,rather than a bench press maximum.
    Offensive tackle Bob Henry holds the mark at 34 reps ( I'm pooped
    just mentioning this). The interesting point is that the punter,
    Josh Butland,who can bench press 420 lbs, was second  with 31 reps.
    BTW Butland goes 6'5 250, not a small guy. I wonder how all this
    bench pressing helps his punting. Maybe he does it with his legs.
    
    
    Anyhoo,
    Prediction
    ND  21
    MSU 10
    
    MikeL
    

    Well, I guess MSU really is bad.  Looks like they totally lost it in
    the 3rd quarter.  ND has an easy win this week at Purdon't and probably
    won't lose again until Oct. 19th.  :^) :^)  
    
    ND's up to #8 already in the rankings, due to losses by Florida and
    Nebraska and a mysterious leapfrogging of idle Iowa by the Irish.  I
    want FSU to win this week, but can't decide if I should pull for
    Michigan just so they can cruise to the mythical without ND being able
    to do a thing about it.  Ditto for Washington.  Of course, ND will
    probably leapfrog the Huskies in a few weeks even if UW doesn't lose. 
    :^)
    
    
    Joe
                                                

    Joe,
    What's this with all the bandwaggin' jumpin'? Is it Michigan, FSU, or
    Colorado?  Or do I get the sneaky suspicion you is an AF fan. Hah,
    10/19, the Irish will send the Cadettes crash-burnin' to earth.
    
    I was surprised with the easy win for ND. They simply shredded the
    supposed tough MSU defense. And ND's defense was surprisingly dominant.
    Believe a combination of Irish superiority and Spartan ineptitude led
    to this rout. Cain't tell this early if MSU is that bad. They were
    projected to be in the hunt fer the 10 title, a tad behind Iowa and
    Michigan. They certainly, ON PAPER, have the talent and size. Maybe
    the finger points solely to Perles. No "Perles" of wisdom this week.
    In retrospect, his players looked as fat and out of shape as he did.
    Rumor has it that he was real loose wif the discipline this summer
    (and MSU doesn't start classes till the 26th), with all the alleged
    drinkin' and cuttin' up they did this summer. I cain't reveal me
    sources Anyway, I hope they recover in sufficient time to throttle
    the Wolverines in October at East Lansing.
    On paper, it looks as if ND has an easy one at Purdue. More later.
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

              

	Well, it was an easy victory for the Irish this week over Purdue.
	The Boilermakers really killed themselves this week with a lot
	of costly turnovers!  

	I think the Irish should beware heading out to Cali- to face the
	Cardinal of Stanford, after Stanfords big upset of Colorado they
	are really going to be flying this Saturday!

	My early prediction is for an Irish Victory but not by a lot.

	ND 35 Stanford 24

	Dave     
    
    

    Start burning the midnight oil Mike because ND doesn't kick it off
    until 11 back on the East Coast.  The game's on ESPN.
    
    I think (at least hope) ND could have a tough time with Stanford.  The 
    Cardinal had 2 guys rush for over 100 yards against the Buffs, but ND does 
    appear to be coming around after beating up on a couple of lightweights (I 
    think we can officially classify MSU as a lightweight after their loss to 
    the powerful Scarlet Knights).  Also, you can be sure Lou is reminding his
    team about last year's game with Stanford.  
    
    I wonder why the latest stunt by Holtz of not starting Mirer against 
    Purdon't.  I thought I remember hearing he was hurt but it couldn't be too 
    serious 'cuz he sure played well after entering the game.  Maybe Lou
    thought he could still beat the Boilerfakers without Rick but got a
    little scared when they went up 7-zip in the 2nd quarter.
    
    
    Joe
    

    Joe,
    I only heard bits of the game on the radio. From what I understand,
    Mirer had a couple of bruised ribs and did not practice much during
    the week. I don't know his status for the Stanford game, I'm sure
    he'll be ready. Before the season, Mirer pointed to two games where
    he would be extremely anxious to win ( Stanford and Penn St) Seems he
    places mucho blame on himself for those two losses. Don't understand
    why, he doesn't play defense. Well, maybe the 2nd half of both games
    he didn't move the Irish as he had in the first half. 
    Stanford gave the Irish fits in the 2nd half last year. I'm sure
    they'll be pumped after beating Colorado and knowing they can play
    with ND. Oh, yes Holtz will have ND pumped also.
    
    11 PM, out East! Man, and I have to get up early and meet people at
    9 AM on Sunday AM to proceed to Foxboro and watch the Pats "Squish da
    Fish" I'll bring my clothespins.
    
    MikeL
    

       So you guys are leaving at 9 AM Sunday too, eh? /Don says he wants
    us to do it to 'beat the traffic' but we know better. See him tonight,
    he'll give you directions to our parking space.
                                       Denny

    He's right!  Beat the traffic to the Port-a-Johnny's 8^)
    
    Actually we're leavin at 9 to meet people in Canton at 10 so God knows
    when we'll arrive at the game. I'll git directions tho, thanks!
    
    MikeL
    
    

    Week 5
    Down on The Farm, where Stanford is celebrating its' centennial this
    year.  Stanford enters the game at 1-2, recent winners over Colorado
    while the Irish topped Purdue to go 3-1.
    
    Tale of the tape, Cardinal vs. Irish
    
    Series: Notre Dame leads 5-2
    Current win streak: 1 by Stanford (1990)
    Last ND win: 27-17, 1989 at Stanford Stadium
    Last Stanford win: 36-31, 1990 at Notre Dame Stadium
    Longest ND win streak: 3, (1964, 1988, 1989)
    Longest Stanford win streak: 1 (1963 and 1990)
    
    Keys to the game
    Notre Dame must press its offensive advantage from the beginning.
    Stanford fielded only 4 returning defensive starters against Arizona
    and Colorado and I believe only one of the three injured defensive
    lineman will play against the Irish.  Stanford's defense is in a
    rebuilding year and is deemed average at best. The Irish should be
    able to move the ball, both on the ground and in the air.
    
    Stanford on offense is a different story. Their veteran offensive
    line, anchored by All-America tackle Bob Whifield, averages 6'7, 300
    lbs.Seems curious to me, but Coach Dennis Green is concerned about
    maintaining a consistent running game with these horses. The line
    has a better rep at pass protection than run blocking. If Stanford
    can get a consistent run offense in additiion to their strong
    controlled passing game, the young Irish defense might be in for a long
    afternoon. This run/pass combo that executed flawlessly in the 2nd
    half of last year's game ( 26 pts in the 2nd half vs ND in '90) could
    prove deadly. The Irish D, while decimated by Michigan, rebounded
    nicely against MSU and Purdue, and has confidence. It will be tested
    by Stanford. The Cardinal backfield all returns. Jason Palumbis is
    the QB ( 26 of 34 for 256 yds vs ND last year )and he is the master
    of the short, controlled pass. Favorite receivers are flanker Jon
    Pinckney, TE Ryan Wetnight (love dat name) and his FB/TB duo, Vardell
    and Milburn. IN fact , of the Cardinal 49 pass receptions from their
    first two games ( don't have Colorado stats), only one was over 19 yds.
    Cardinal receivers averaged 9.4 yds for the first two games. 
    The Cardinal backs do as muuch receiving as running. TB Glyn Milburn,
    who led the nation last year with 2,222 all-purpose yds, is a breakaway
    threat any time he touches the ball. FB "Touchdown Tommy" Vardell is
    considered one of the best "money" short-yardage FB's in the country,
    and ND ought to know. He scoreds 4 TD's last year (all on the ground)
    vs. the Irish. Vardell can also catch the ball. 
    Whew, looks like a busy afternoon for the Irish LB crew.
    
    If Stanford can run the ball well, look out (stratosphere scores).
    The Irish will move both in the air and on the ground, and Stanford
    should move the ball via the air as well.
    Still it's harvest time on The Farm, and the Irish will do the reaping
    this year (not weeping)
    
    Notre Dame-34
    Stanford-  23
    
    
    MikeL
    
     
    

    What's the deal with calling Stanford 'The Farm'?  I also saw it called
    that in a Denver paper.
    
    Joe

    Don't rightly know Joe,
    Seems as if the Stanford people like calling in "The Farm" 
    Mebbe because they produce many vegetables or are full of manure.!!
    8^)
    Maybe someone from the Left Coast can 'splain in detail.
    
    MikeL
    

>    Do a scouting report on AF willya. Me Irish is out there on 10/19.
  
I'm not JaKe, but I'll give you full report. :^)

I've been waiting for this one for a looong time, Mike.  ESPN has tentative
plans to televise this one, but no time has been set - more than likely will
be a 5:30 MDT game.  Don't worry, I'll send my best to Lou and his boys. :^):^)

    I've seen most or all of every Air Force game this year.  Going into the 
    season, the expectations were a potent ground game, improved but still 
    poor passing game (they were the only division I-A team without a TD pass 
    in 1990), and a defense that was expected to give up alot, especially on 
    the ground.

First game against I-AA Weber State went pretty much as expected.  Falcons 
won 48-31, scoring almost at will, stopping themselves only with turnovers,
and giving up big yardage and points to Weber, who has a great QB and passing
game.

AF went on to win their next 3 games, but could have very well lost all 3, 
and 2 were very close to being ties.  They beat Colorado State 31-26, but 
intercepted a pass in the end zone with literally seconds to go.  Against 
Utah, they were leading 24-21, but Utah drove inside the AF 10 in the final
seconds.  But Utah ran out of time, decided to go for the tie, and AF 
blocked the FG attempt on the last play of the game.  They beat San Diego St.
the next week 21-20, but SDSU missed an extra point after their last TD.  And
then they proceeded to Provo to play BYU and promptly layed down 21-7, only
scoring a garbage TD in the final minutes.  AF always play poorly against 
BYU, having only beaten the Cougars once in 14 tries, but that's no reason 
for the poor showing.

One of the most dismal stats is going into the BYU game, AF's offensive
output had declined each week in four different categories, including points
scored.  But the defense has played surprisingly well, so they haven't been 
involved in the typical high-scoring shootouts as expected.  There has been 
somewhat of a QB revolving door between starter Rob Perez and Jarvis Baker the
last 2 games, but DeBerry claims Perez is definitely the starter.  He has just
put Baker in at times when the offense is struggling to try and give them a 
boost.  Baker is quicker but Perez reads and runs the option better.  

One thing you can be sure of, AF will give it their all 'til the final gun 
and this year's bunch isn't worried about getting behind late.  They trailed
CSU by 10 in the 2nd half, Utah by 7 in the 2nd half, and SDSU by 6 in the
4th quarter.  Few coaches, if any, get more out of their talent than Fisher 
DeBerry.  They're not what you'd call a traditional powerhouse but they 
certainly play good and exciting football.  This week's game against Wyoming 
should be a good one and could be another one that's decided late.  It's also
a good rivalry.  (I know, it's just some WAC game you East-coasters could
care less about, but JaKe and I will have one good time, even if it does 
snow!  :^))

If their offense, particularly the ground game doesn't come around the next
2 weeks, it will be a long day against ND.  Since Holtz has been at ND, AF 
    hasn't even played the Irish close.  And I'm sure you are aware of the
    huge size disadvantage AF has against other schools, especially ND.  
    This will be the last game betweeen these 2 teams until '95 I believe.


Joe
                                

    Thanks Joe,
    I plumb fergot you were an AF fanatic. Looks like a "W" for the Irish
    if the altitude don't get to them.  Tell JaKe to put sun block on his
    panels.
    
    MikeL
    

    
>>				Tell JaKe to put sun block on his
>>    panels.                             
    
    
    Nah, No sunblock needed.  I wears a hat anytime I'm outside.  Sorta
    like an American Express card, I don't leave home without it(the hat,
    that is)
    
    Plus, if the sun is out tomorrow, the officials would stop the game and
    force me to leave or put a hat on if I had it off, the glare off of
    this solar panel has started foresat fires.
    
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    I believe it's called The Farm cuz it's near a_actual farm that is out
    on the edge of Stanford, CA, heading towards Portola Hills (where a bud
    a mine has a house overlooking the big radio telescope.  But axe Jeff
    Riggens, our practical-joking Moderator.  He went to school there and
    while I seriously doubt he ever attended a football game he probably
    heard through the grapevine why it's called The Farm.
    
    Big10 Tom

During my daze; 
	Mr. Ed's Jack Elway was coaching the team into some Excellent loses.
Attendance was down cause the Raiders were the Football team in the area. Most
of the computer nerds figured out that the season would be 3-8 with a win 
over Fresno St and losses to UCLA USC and Washington. 
The place was a beautiful farm before the invention of Electronics gizmo's and
the entire silicon valley grew. Then Stanford adopted a Techno-weinie grad 
program. This is probably the most prime real-estate in collegiate football. 
More importantly the babes acted like animals at this place which is why it's 
called the Farm.  

Jeff

    AFA update: AF's offense had its best game of the year as the Falcons
    whipped Wyoming 51-28.  They rolled up over 600 yards of total offense
    but rarely passed the ball (as usual) with only 7 pass attempts. 
    Starting QB Rob Perez had something like 158 yards rushing and was
    named the WAC offensive player of the week.  This was all done against
    a decent Wyoming defense.  AF is now 5-1 but has definitely played a
    weak schedule by national standards.  This week AF travels to Annapolis 
    to take on a very weak Navy team.  It's official that the ND-AF game will 
    be at 5:30 pm MDT on ESPN.
    
    Pitt, ND's opponent this week, is 5-0, but they're yet to play a ranked
    team.  They have struggled their last 2 games against sub-mediocre
    teams in Minnesota and Maryland.  I really don't think Pitt is all that
    good.
    
    
    Joe

    Joe,
    Don't know much about Pitt except that they return VanPelt and the
    TB whose name escapes me. These are the type of games that scare me.
    I hope the Irish don't underestimate the Panthers. Even though they
    haven't played anyone of great merit, a 5-0 team has got momentum and
    confidence. Till Saturday that is (smirk). More later.
    Yo Dave McNeil! Since you is attendin' this here game, expect a trip
    report to be posted in dis space on Monday. Enjoy and Go Irish!
    
    MikeL
    

    Notre Dame has much more talent than Pitt except at QB.  I look for
    both Pitt's and Penn State's seasons to end this weekend (Penn State
    vs. Miami).
    
    	--dan'l

    
    	Actually, Pitt is doing it with mirrors.. (you guys can have some
    fun with that one!!)
    
    	Pitt lost a key player in last years draft when Curvin Richards
    went hardship.  Curvin now plays, make that sits, on the Dallas bench.
    Pitt also lost a top receiver when he transfered to Miss. St. I
    believe.  So, Pitt has lost two first string players that if were still
    around, would of made the game more interesting.
    
    	I do believe that Pitt has one of the best kept secrets in college
    football and that being Alex Van Pelt.  The kid has got the stuff and
    is still a junior.  If he were playing for Penn St., Penn St. would be
    a major contender for No. 1.  Van Pelt throws the ball well, but I've
    never seen a QB with such good play action fakes.  If he is on, Pitt
    will give ND a decent game.  On the other hand, I doubt that Pitt can
    contain ND's running game.  With that said, ND by 14 but hoping it's
    closer.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Holtz made a phone call this week to Pitt coach Paul Hackett Monday to
    complain about a blocking technique used by the Panthers and to ask
    that it not be used against the Irish.
    
    Well, Hackett surprised Holtz by making the call public.  "It wa
    psychological warfare," said Hackett,  "I understand he does that to
    you.  Everybody's got their own style, and that's his style.  He tries
    to do it with young head coaches, to rattle them a little bit."
    
    When Holtz was asked about the call he said, "You'll have to ask coach
    Hackett about that.  I think my conversation wiith coach Hackett was
    personal and it's going to remain personal."
    
    Who does Holtz think he is?  I can see him the week before the
    Tennessee game: "Hello, Mr. Majors, would you mind not using that guy
    Pickens against us too much?  He's a helluva receiver and kick
    returner, and I think that'll make it tougher for us to win if you use
    him alot.  Thanks Johnny."
    
    
    Joe
    

    So what Joe? Mucho ado about zip. If it psychological warfare, so be
    it. Holtz has called coaches before games to discuss things and
    from what I've heard and read, it's been no big deal. Hey, Hackett
    said it's Holtz' style. I don't agree with some of his "stylish"
    antics, but he's honest, fair and a great coach. And don't you think
    Hackett is using his own psychological warfare in return? So that's
    the hype, it adds to the game. And if Hackett had any b*lls, he would
    have said to Holtz "F*^# you, and hung up. Instead, he whines to the
    press and everyone gets juiced up. Hey, it's all a mind game.
    
    What do you mean Holtz is at it again? At what again?
    I think Holtz is a great coach, understands the game, is a great
    motivator, and there's no one better on the sidelines on game day.
    As far as his personality goes, I'm kinda lukewarm on it, but he
    didn't ask me how I felt about him.
    
    MikeL
    

>    What do you mean Holtz is at it again? At what again?
    
    At his usual bulls$!t, that's what.  Like how he has tried to build up
    a terrible and totally outmanned Navy team in the past.  Like how he
    says they don't deserve to be #1 when they are #1.  Like how he cried
    when they weren't #1 after the '89 season.  Like how he said Rocket
    probably wouldn't play in last year's Orange Bowl.
    
>    I think Holtz is a great coach, understands the game, is a great
>    motivator, and there's no one better on the sidelines on game day.
    
    I agree with you all the way here, especially about him being a great
    motivator and game coach.  Which is much of the reason I hate him and
    would love to see him leave ND and bring in Sheridan from NC State or 
    whoever.  Heck, I say bring back Gerry!!!  :^) :^)
    
    
    Joe
     

    And Joe, you have correctly pointed out some his "stylish antics"
    that I raise an eyebrow at. Just wanted to see if you knew yo' facts
    or interpretation of such things 8^). I've watched him on his show and
    on countless interviews and cringe when he starts with the "poor me"
    attitude. However, it's part of his schtick, and I've learned to accept
    it because it's miniscule compared to his strengths. Annoying to me,
    and maddening to you. Je comprend.
    I wonder if Holtz was confronting Hackett with the implied message
    that he would "impress" upon the officials to look for illegal
    blocking, if in fact it does exist. Makes for good press.
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW, I don't blame Gerry. ND's administration never should have hired
    him. He was placed in an awful position. He could recruit talent, not
    the needed balanced talent, thus was overloaded at some positions (
    TB, FB) and woefully undermanned at others  (QB, DL,). He for the most
    part, was abysmal at sideline coaching.
      
    

 Hey MikeL don't you be slandering Gerry. He was the second best thing to
 ever happen to ND...

 ;^)

 
 the firstest bestest thing to everest happenest to ND???

 Digger Phelphs.....

 mike

    Gentlemen, Gentlemen,
    It appears obvious to me that you all need to be educated and immersed
    in the righteousness, moral fiber, and family spirit of Notre Dame.
    You are crying out to be converted. So I'll suggest some steps to
    rapture:
    1. Rent the movie "Knute Rockne, All -America" This movie will have you
    running into concrete walls to 'Win One for the Gipper' You will be
    MOVED.
    
    2. Read Fr. Hesburgh's elightening book " God, Notre Dame, and me."
       Your eyes will be riveted to each page. You will be approaching
       conversion.
    
    3. Rent the video "Notre Dame Football History" narrated by Paul
       Hornung. You will cheer every win, mourn every not-so-often defeat.
       Note the deletion of the Faust and Kuharich years. Your passion is
       at the boiling point.
    
    4. You are now ready to borrow my CD's; one by the Notre Dame Marching
       Band, the other by the Notre Dame Glee Club. You will listen to
       the Notre Dame Fight Song, the Alma Mater, and other sundry Irish
       rallying songs. You will be singing them in the shower! You will
       be blessed with a constant beaming smile. You are nearing
       fanaticism.
    
    5. As a profession of your new-found faith, make a pilgrimage to the
       Shrine. Tour the campus, sit in the stadium, the history will
       overwhelm you. You can almost hear the echoes... Take a walk to
       the Holy Grotto, light a candle, look up and see the Golden Dome in
       all its speldor. Like Charlton Heston's mother, YOU are SAVED!!.
    
    6. Now, as newly-christened zealots, get thee to the bookstore and
       purchase a musical ND key ring. It will forever be in your
       possession (till the batteries run out).
    
     YOU ARE IN BLISS. You shall know nothing but inner peace,
     congratulations.
    
    
    MikeL
     

    7. Watch a Lou Holtz press conference.  On NBC, of course.   Watch
       his lips move.   Check to see if you still have your wallet.  
       Become a lifelong fan of Notre Dame's next scheduled opponent.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Where's Monsieur Needle? Cain he figger out how to forward to Schneid?
     
    Bob, Whaddya sayin'? that Holtz is in the same class as Jimmy Johnson
    and Barry Switzer. I'm swoonin'
    
    BTW. I hear in ACC country and other pockets around the nation, that
    NBC local stations are pre-emting with local garba(er football, i.e.
    ACC-fashion) and trying to find cable channels to carry ND games.
    Understandable ,especially if ND is playin' Northwestern or the like,
    or there is simply no interest.  Could also be backlash. Any evidence
    of such?
    
    MikeL
    

�    Where's Monsieur Needle? Cain he figger out how to forward to Schneid?
    
    Not only cain he, he has already done so and even told everyone else
    how.  Check out the Jets and the Farewell to Dan topics.

re: .305

If ND has been shown on National NBC this year, they have been preempted.
NBC doesn't show college football, at least not in these parts. Whatever
they're showing in its stead is not college football.

The local ACC football, if that's what you're trying to slur, has its own
network of stations. Around these here parts, it's shown on the local
fascist Tar Heel station, the flag ship of Jefferson Pilot.

TTom

    -2
    I'm deeply hurt, Bob. I'll have my ND water pistol ready when you
    descend. En guarde! 
    
    Mac,
    Thanks,I'll check it out.
    
    MikeL
    

    > I tried to send Dan mail via DECWRL::blah.blah.blah.columbia.blah, and
    > it got rejected.  Forgot what the error message was, but it didn't like
    > something after the :: ....
    
    Hawk, I think the stuff after the :: has to be within quotes.
    
    
    py

Hey, if you talking about No Carolina and Wake Forest, it is a pretty
lame implementation of that fine sport, College Football.

TTom

    Some hotshot New Joisey guard just committed to ND nexted year. Don't
    know much about him or his name even. Will try to look up tonight.
    Still gonna be a long road to hoe for MacLeod. He'll do ok though.
    
    MikeL
    

    Don't you hat it when you finish typing a note and try to enter it only 
    to find a 'network partner aborted' error.
    
>    BTW. I hear in ACC country and other pockets around the nation, that
>    NBC local stations are pre-emting with local garba(er football, i.e.
>    ACC-fashion) and trying to find cable channels to carry ND games.
>    Understandable ,especially if ND is playin' Northwestern or the like,
>    or there is simply no interest.  Could also be backlash. Any evidence
>    of such?
    
    The NBC affiliate in Denver usually carries the Buffs when they aren't
    on national TV.  If ND is playing at home at the same time, their game
    is picked up by an independent station in Denver.  They must have some
    sort of agreement with the NBC affiliate.  This happened a few weeks
    ago when Minnesota-CU was picked up by the NBC affiliate and the MSU-ND
    game was on the independent station.  The same thing will happen this
    week with Mizzou-CU and Pitt-ND.
    
    P.S. - I bet that NDC (tm) is dreading that Navy-ND game in a few
    weeks.  I wonder what they'll use to try and build that one up?
    
    
    Joe     

    Joe,
    Betya they show clips of Staubach's salad days in '63 when he won
    the Heisman and Navy romped over ND ( last Navy win I believe)
    Or Nappy McCallum gaining 20 yds in 30 carries.  Yawn is right.
    I gottsa hear Holtz on this one. Great actor, he. Betya he maintains
    that straight face right thru halftime.
    
    MikeL
    

>    Betya they show clips of Staubach's salad days in '63 when he won
>    the Heisman and Navy romped over ND ( last Navy win I believe)

    I'm sure they'll also bring up the fact that Navy and Notre Dame were
    tied at the half last year.
    
    Mike, I searched thru some old notes and found this one.  1963 was
    indeed the last Navy win:
      
>> Note 37.212                     NOTRE DAME SPORTS                     212 of 318
>> FSBIC::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 297-2623"           39 lines  22-AUG-1991 08:15
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Irish losing streaks are easier to pick out than Irish winning streaks
>>    since they've won so many games and the losses really stand out.  To be
>>    fair, here are some comparable winning streaks:
    
>>    Navy		27 straight from 1964-present
    
    
    Joe

    As far as that hotshot Joisey guard who commited to ND (Voibally),
    he is Keith Kurowski,combo guard from Lincroft,NJ. He plays fer
    Christian Bros Academy. He is expected to start off his career at
    ND in the "2" position and eventually settle in as point guard.
    
    Hey, da program gots nowhere to go but up!
    
    MikeL
    

    
    OK, week 6, Pitt Panthers vs. ND
    
    Series: Notre Dame leads 35-16-1
    Current Win Streak: 3 by Notre Dame (1988-1990)
    Last ND win:31-22 in 1990 at Pitt Stadium
    Last Pitt Win:30-22 in 1987 at Pitt Stadium
    Longest ND win streak: 3 (1988-1990)
    Longest Pitt win streak: 3 (1932-34,1958-1960,1983,1986-1987)
    
    Pitt is currently 5-0 and ND is 4-1.
    
    Pittsburgh returns a strong offensive line that is well-known for its
    pass protection. Junior QB Alex Van Pelt also returns and can move the
    ball via the air quite well. His strength this year seems to be in the
    short, controlled passing game. If his wide receivers are shut down,
    Van Pelt likes to go to his tight end Eric Seaman or to his running
    backs via the dump-off, to which ND has been susceptible. Pitt lost
    both starting receivers Olanda Truitt and Darnell Dickerson to 
    transfer/ineligibility and also lost star TB Curven Richards to the
    NFL draft. Newcomers Curtis Martin, Jermaine Richards, and freshman
    Glenn Devereaux have filled in nicely at FB/TB . His new receivers,
    Chris Bouyer and Chad Askew have combined for 21 receptions. In
    fact, Pitt's passing attack is quite balanced;TE 23 receptions,
    WR 21 and backs 17. Pitt's running arttack has averaged 165 yds 
    per game also. So it looks as if Pitt has a well-balanced attack
    and looks solid on offense. If their running attack slows down, they
    will try to force things open with the dump-off pass to the backs
    or quick releases to the tight end. And Van Pelt knows how to mix it
    up. If there is a weakness on offense it is the lack of experience
    and marquee skill position people at WR and running back. Pitt did
    lose a lot in Truitt,Dickerson and Richards.
    On defense Pitt returns a strong nucleus op linemem LB and DB's.
    Tackles Keith Hamilton and Sean Gilbert, LB Ricardo McDonald and
    CB Steve Israel are All-America candidates. This defense will make
    the Irish earn everything and will put up much more resistance than
    Stanford.
    
    Pitt must use ball control as much as possible and try to keep the
    potent Irish offense off the field while attempting to tire out the
    young Irish defense. ND is a solid 14 pt favorite, but don't see
    this game decided until 4th quarter. Is there a chance for a Pitt
    upset? Sure is but don't think it will happen. Be tight though.
    
    Notre Dame -27
    Pitt-       17
    
    PS.Little interesting note. Seems to be a Pitt freshman on the depth
    chart, goes by the name of Anthony Dorsett. Yep, the son of the former
    Pitt great back. Man if you think that makes y'all old, go ask TD!
    
    

    OK, I'm psyched for Saturday!!  Notre Dame will be here to take on Air
    Force for a night game.  I've got family (who are all ND fans BTW)
    coming up from New Mexico for the game and we're gonna have one
    helluva tailgate party.  Just hope I'm still coherent at kickoff. :^) :^)
    Of course, it'd be nice if the Falcons can give 'em a good game.
    
    I listened to some of the first quarter of Pitt-ND while working on my
    car, but when it got to be 14-0 I gave up on the Panthers.  Besides, it
    was time to switch over to a real team - the Buffs.  :^)  Sounded like
    Pitt was doing fairly well early on, but then had some turnovers and
    blocked punts and that was about it.  I see where Mirer had a terrible
    day - hope he can keep that up for another week!  Bettis seems to be
    running real well.  
    
    Air Force pounded Navy 46-6 but only led 7-6 at halftime.  The Falcons
    rushed for 388 yards but was only 2 for 6 for 42 yards and 1 int. in
    the passing department.  In this win AF set team records for most points
    against Navy, biggest margin of victory in AF-Navy series, and most
    consecutive wins over an opponent with 10 straight over the Midshipmen. 
    AF also set a record for most yards rushing by anybody in Navy-Marine
    Corps Stadium history.  Navy threw 4 ints. in this game.
    
    
    Joe

    Joe,
    Don't worry if you're not coherent by game time. Hate to see you
    traumatized by a massacre. 8^)
    I was very surprised by Pitt. They showed me nothing. Early on , they
    had a couple of opportunities, but were stuffed. ND's defense played
    exceptionally well overall. In fairness Pitt really looked as if they
    missed their departed skill position players. Mirer did have a pretty
    bad day passing, however ND was fortunate that they did not need the
    passing game.
    ND just physically pounded Pitt. I'm obviously prejudiced, but each
    game I've noticed a significant amount of opposing players leaving
    the game with injuries. ND really must be hitting hard, and I'm sure
    the fatigue factor for the other teams kicks in around the fourth
    quarter.
    I'm gettin too conservative with my prognostications. I must be 
    afflicted a small dose of Lou Holtz disease. BTW, if Air Force has
    no passing attack, they will be squashed. More later.
    
    MikeL
     

>    BTW, if Air Force has
>    no passing attack, they will be squashed. More later.
 
    Air Force has no passing attack.  Well, it's not that they don't have a
    passing attack, they just don't use it.  Make sense?...Didn't think so.
    Looking at the stats last week AF was a notch or 2 from being the worst
    passing team in I-A.  This is based on total yards per game passing. 
    However, they were leading the nation in yards per reception and are
    very efficient when they do pass.
    
    Another little point, Mike.  When ND played here 2 years ago, AF was 
    the exact same type of team they are now: they ran the wishbone and
    rarely passed.  They probably weren't averaging more than 100
    yards per game thru the air.  But after the Irish got out to a 21-0
    lead, AF didn't have much of a choice.  AF ended up with over 300 yards
    passing in that game.  Now it's true that would come easier when you're
    behind by 3 TD's, but it's some food for thought.  (Not to mention some
    optimism on my part).
    
    But you're right, AF isn't gonna attempt their usual 7 passes per game
    and keep this one close.  BYU was able to shut down AF's option and 
    running game 2 weeks ago and ND is a level above BYU.  
     
    BTW Mike, it looks like AF played the Irish last week.  There's a color
    picture from the AF-Navy game in the local sports, and if it wasn't for
    the word 'Navy' across Navy's uniforms they could pass for ND.  I
    always bug my wife about that by calling ND Navy and vice versa and it
    always get her pissed off.  :^) :^)
    
    
    Joe
       

    >I'm getting too coservative with my prognostications.
    
    Yo, Leary, is it time for us to talk again?
    
    Big10 Tom

    T
    I suppose you want another 38 points fer AF. Ix-nay. Go find another
    pigeon for your 2nd income. BTW, if Holtz hadn't been so magnanimous
    in ordering ND to lay low in the final minutes against IU, I woulda
    won dat bet. Mebbe you cain give me 10-15 pts whence BobKnight takes
    on Macleod this year in BBall. You cain pay me off whence you come East
    for DECWORLD.
    
    MikeL
    BTW I'd love ta see you knock off Michigan, but Ah don't think so.
    Mebbe Iowa (lucky SOB's vs. Wussconsin) or Ohio St (Cooper will choke
    in da clutch). There's hope fer you hayseeds yet!
    
     

    >Mebbe you cain give me 10-15 pts whence BobKnight takes on Macleod
    >this year in BBall.
    
    No cain do, Mike.  The Hoosiers are badly overrated and will stumble
    in the ACC this year with a partially installed offense exacerbated
    by being physically outmanned in the paint by the burly Irish...
    
    MrT

    HAWWWW HEEEEEE HAWWWWWWW
    Now who's blowin' smoke!!
    I commend you T on your carefully chosen words as again You paint
    the scene: IU don't have the guns and with Bob's artistic,masterful
    directing, the Hoosiers vastly overachieve only to be knocked out
    in the Sweet Sixteen. HAWWWWW IU easily over ND by 15.
    
    You be da master
    
    MikeL
    
    

    AF stats thru first 7 games:
    
    Rushing offense - 344.0 yards per game
    Passing offense - 85.3 yards per game (AF has only attempted 51 passes)
    Total offense - 429.3 yards per game
    Rushing defense - 122.3 yards per game
    Passing defense - 269.3 yards per game
    Total defense - 391.6 yards per game
    
    QB Perez is averaging 86.7 yards rushing per game, 5.2 yds per rush
    FB Jones is averaging 80.8 yards rushing per game, 5.4 yds per rush
    HB Banks is averaging 52.0 yards rushing per game, 7.7 yds per rush
    
    In Holtz's 5 years at ND the Irish are 5-0 vs. AF and the average score
    has been 41-17.
    
    
    Joe

    The force may just suprise an ND team thats looking past them as
    an easy win.  I live in Colo Spgs and have seasons  to Falcon
    football....  This is a good team !!  Under sized by ND's standards
    but full of heart and the desire to win...  ND had better take the 
    Force seriously or they could have a long, long plane ride home
    from the real mile high city.
    
    Falcons 27
    
    Irish   24
    
    
    Feel The Thunder of Air Force Football,
    
    Big Game

    BG,
    ND won't be lookin past AF. Holtz knows that the 'bone cain hurt.
    He's been stressin assignment D all week. I think the Falconettes
    will score 21 on ND, but believe ND will score 38-40. No way does
    anyone think this will be easy. ND's depth and strength will win out
    in the 2nd half unless the thin air ( hopefully not AF attack) makes
    em dizzy. We still haven't forgotten those 82-85 emarrasskin losses
    to the Cadettes (you ought to be thankin' Gerry Faust every night!)
    
    No way looking past AF to USC!
    MikeL
    

>   (you ought to be thankin' Gerry Faust every night!)
   
    I am!!!!
    
    Weather shouldn't be a factor in this game because there's no rain or
    snow in the forecast.  It may be a little breezy however.
    
    When asked about ND's new TV contract, Holtz says "We never mention it
    in recruiting."  And when asked if having every home game televised by
    NDC (tm) is any advantage, Holtz insists "I'm oblivious to it."
    
    Why does this guy even bothering lying about this?  You know they
    mention it to recruits because some 18-year-old cares a *whole* hell of a
    lot if he's guaranteed to be on national TV 5 or 6 times at
    home, plus as least 2 or 3 more times on the road.
    
    
    Joe
     
        

 �   When asked about ND's new TV contract, Holtz says "We never mention it
 �   in recruiting."  And when asked if having every home game televised by
 �   NDC (tm) is any advantage, Holtz insists "I'm oblivious to it."
 
 Rollward.   Way way way too funny.  Please, Lou, cut it out, it hurts too
 much to laugh any harder.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
     Well Mike.....  I know that Holtz is a good coach and I'm sure
    that he isn't looking past the Force but the players may be. There
    sure is a lot of ego on the ND squad and I wouldn't put it past a few
    to be talking trash about and looking past the Force...  At any rate,
    I hope it's a great game !!!!!   Sure would be a big win for AF
    anyhow !!!!  Look for me on TV...
    
    Big Game

    First of all, BG, there's plenty of ego on any college team. And
    believe me, why in the world would they talk trash about AF or any
    other opponent. It's simply counter-productive. They will be focused.
    They are a very disciplined team and I doubt very much you'll hear
    any badmouthing from the Irish players. Perhaps confident talk, but
    no badmouthing. Look fer you on TV! Give me some hints. Do a MrT and
    wear/do something discernable. Let's see.. Big Game. How's about
    dressing up like a grizzly bear. Dat's Big Game. 
    Are you attending with Joe C? He with all the Irish-rooting relatives.
    He stated earlier he might get trashed, so I'll look fer a drunken
    bum!! 8^) ( one of the few rootin fer AF!!).
    
    Joe and Bob,
    I ain't going to get in a long rathole about Holtz and/or the contract
    cuz I have mixed feelings about both. I know Lou BS's and that annoys
    me, but, call me naive (and AH know you both will), but his two
    statements are quite believable.
    A. recruiting-  Double-edged sword. I see no need to even mention the
    contract to a possible recruit unless he asks questions. Every sports
    fan knows about it, and should understand the ramifications. If that's
    me sitting in my living room and Holtz mentions to me about appearing
    on TV, my first thought is "I know that, why are you trying to impress
    me with that. That's a pretty shallow reason to attend the University.
    Yeah, yeah I know your rejoinders already. Holtz and the recruiters
    are very careful with this. ND recruiters(Holtz included) have a very
    solid rep out there when it comes to upfront honest recruiting. They
    emphasize the positive aspects of playing sports at ND without trying
    to "sway" someone with the TV contract. The negative side of this
    type of recruiting should be obvious: The rep of a sanctimonious,
    holier-than-thou school that would destroy its credibility. In 
    addition, plenty of schools use the contract issue to sway recruits
    from ND. "Why go there. Look at all the great players that will
    go there. You'll never play" Hey I might say the same thing and that's
    all fair in recruiting. So there are plenty of negatives in bringing
    up the TV contract issue.
    
    2. Oblivious- If he means concentrating on the football coaching
    aspect then he should be oblivious to the hype and possible recruiting
    "edge" in the exposure. I really think he is oblivious to it. It would
    simply become a hindrance to performing his coaching duties. I'm not
    so naive to think he is not aware of the effect it has on potential
    recruits(both positive and negative), but I believe he has to make
    himself oblivious to it.
    
    OK, fire away. I ain't gonna change anyone's mind on this and I am
    not attemptin' to. Jest my way of thinkin' on this.
    
    MikeL
    
    
     

 Three cheers for Lou Holtz what a guy.......

 	LET'S GO LOU HOLTZ
 	LOU HOLTZ LET'S GO
        LET'S GO LOU HOLTZ
 	LOU HOLTZ GO HOME!!!

 ;^)

    Joe, 
    A while back you asked about the Navy-ND colors. Seems to me that both
    teams started wearing similar colors in the early to mid 50's. I know
    that ND went back and forth between green/gold and blue/gold until the
    late 50's. I believe the Navy "blue" is slightly darker than the ND
    blue and ND's gold is more shiny. Minor diff.
    Speakin of the Navy-ND connection, this year they will meet for the
    65th straight year(from 1927). It seems that one of the Irish "Seven
    Mules" (lineman for Knute Rockne's Four Horsemen 1922-25) Rip Miller,
    who recently died, was named assistant coach for Navy just prior to
    the 1926 season. Miller convinced head coaches Ingram from Navy and
    Rockne from ND to start the rivalry the following year. Miller assumed
    the head coaching position at Navy in 1931 and had the distinction of
    coaching the first Navy win over ND,7-0 in 1933. When Navy returned to
    a system of hiring only former academy grads as head coaches, Miller
    remained as line coach from 1934 to 1947. In 1948, Miller was named
    asst AD at Navy where he remained until his retirement in 1974. So
    the Navy-ND tradition has been intertwined from day 1. Maybe Miller
    had something to do with the similar uniforms.  
    
    Speakin of Lovable Lou, I reprint a South Bend story (not long) 
    without permission. Has to do with Norm Sloan's book. Hmmm, didn't
    he throw some barbs at some other coach?
    
    Lou Holtz didn't take the use of his name in Norm Sloan's book,
    "Confessions of a Coach," quietly. His irritation was with Sloan 
    relating his own problems with the NCAA with those of Holtz while he
    was at Minnesota.
    "Lou gave a kid $250 cash and he is ethical," Sloan wrote. " I gave a
    kid a $240 plane ticket and I'm unethical. Lou helped a kid with his
    academic shortcomings and he is ethical;I helped a kid with his drug
    problems and I'm unethical."
    Holtz reportedly responded with a letter to Sloan
    It read. "When you use my name, please get the facts straight. I did
    give $250 to a former athlete to go to summer school. His eligibility
    was over. He never put on a uniform for me. He played for Joe Salem,
    whom I replaced. There are the facts. If you want to use me as an
    example, that is your choice,but don't confuse the facts."
    
    Methinks Lou protest too much. He was slapped on the wrist for this
    admitted minor infraction. What was Sloan found guilty of?
    
    MikeL
      
    
    
    
    
    

    Mike, I'll be wearin' my Canes shirt.  But even if you do see someone
    in a Canes shirt it probably won't me because I'm up in the Uecker
    seats.  Also, probably won't be as fun as 2 years ago when I got to sit
    in the middle of an Irish section wearing my Canes shirt.  :^)
    
    P.S. Mike - Get you fax from Riggen yet?  :^) :^)
    
    
    Joe

    Joe,
    No. Jeff said he would mail it via DEC mail, so's I gave him me
    mailstop. I'll send him my fax # via MAIL
    
    Thanks,
    Mike.
    
    BTW, ND-42
         AF-21
    
    

    OK Joe and Big Game,
    
    Make sure you post your game reports heah on Monday (even if ya lose)
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW whar is Dave McNeil's game report on the Pitt game? You should be
    recovered by now! 8^)
     

    HAAHAAAHAAA,
    Great cartoon guys. Thanks fer the fax,Jeff!  This one's going up
    on me ofc. wall!
    
    Pesky,obnoxious,little weasel,indeed.
    Kinda looks like McArtney!!  8^)
    
    Hunt and Childs WOULD love this one.
    
    MikeL
    

     John,
    
     I still thinks the Force will take ND.......   Ego's or no Ego's.
    The force is also a very well coached team and like I said up front,
    They have the heart to beat anyone. That along with the thin air
    may just add up to a Force win tomorrow !
    
    Big Game

    That should be mike.....  I was talking to a buddy of mine and typed
    his name in instead....  Was a space case !11
    
    
    Big Game

    Hey, watch it BG, no one's called me john since that ill-fated night
    on LaGrange, er, well that's another story.
    
    AF does have a shot to win, but it will have to be a combo of
    AF's best game/poor or mediocre ND game. Sorry, that's the way I see
    it. If AF can catch the Irish d by surprise early they could make
    things real interesting.  ND should start to pull away by end of 3rd/
    beginning of 4th quarter though. 
    
    Mirer will loft those beeyootiful passes into the wild blue yonder
    and into the willing hands of Messrs Brown,Smith,Dawson and Jarriel.
    
    42-21 ND
    
    MikeL
    
    

    If AF doesn't pull it off I at least hope it's a good, close game. 
    It's always a bummer when you've been waiting for a big game like this
    only to have it turn out to be a flop.  
    
    Yea, AF will need a near-perfect game, and something else that
    wouldn't hurt would be a few Irish turnovers.  AF will probably try a
    trick play or 2 on offense and they need to have some long,
    time-consuming drives.  One of the most important things MikeL
    mentioned is AF getting an early lead.  I also feel the Falcons can't
    get down by more than 2 scores, and they definitely will need to throw
    more than their norm - they should put the ball in the air about 15-20
    times.  AF needs to play with emotion the whole way and not just the
    first few series of the game, but this shouldn't be a problem with them
    playing at home and on national TV.  And last but not least, AF needs to 
    take advantage of opportunities: an Irish turnover, good field position, a 
    good scoring opportunity, etc.  When you're outmanned you need to take 
    advantage of opportunities if you want to have a chance for the upset.
    
    
    
    Joe
                          

    Guys,
    Enjoy the game. wish I was there with (to rub it in yo' faces
    natcherly) you.  When AF comes to South Bend, mebbe we cain arrange
    a meet and I'll show ya some REAL tailgaitin'!! 
    
    MikeL
    

    Do any of you know the names of the 4 horsemen?
    This gal upstairs asked me that today and I told her
    we might get the answer here.
    
    BoB

     I don't know the Four Horseman but I can tell ya the Three Musketeers
    
    Big Game

    Well give em to me Big Game. She might not know the diff.
    By the way, enjoy the game sunday.
    
    later,
    BoB

    
    Four Horseman:
    
    Lone Ranger
    Zorro
    Robert Redford
    Mr. Ed
    
    
    HTH
    
    JD

    Jim Crowley
    Elmer Layden
    Don Miller
    Harry Stuhldreher
    
    were the Four Horsemen, immortalized in a game story by Grantland Rice
    after the October 18, 1924 win over Army at the Polo Grounds, 13-7. 
    Their line was called the Seven Mules - Ed Hunsinger, Chuck Collins,
    Rip Miller, Joe Bach, Nobel Kizer, John Weibel and Adam Walsh.
    
    John
    
    PS - the line known as the Seven Blocks of Granite was from Fordham

>    PS - the line known as the Seven Blocks of Granite was from Fordham


And if I'm not mistaken, one of those Seven Blocks of Granite was
Vince Lombardi.

If not, then I know he was a lineman at Fordham at one point in time....

    Thanks John, I'll pass that along and JD you didn't think you 
    could fool me on that one did you?  Everybody knows Mr. Ed 
    played for Stanford not ND.
    
    BoB

     Well... I guess I need to have a small helping of crow today...
    The Force did play a good game though and was never shut down
    by ND....  They stopped them selves which is not like them.
    Oh well,  Good game all around... See ya nexted year
    
    Big Game

A pretty good day despite the outcome.  We tailgated about 40 yards from the
ND Alumni Association tent so we had to listen to their fight song for a 
couple hours. :^(  From being in the parking lot (at least where we were) 
you would've thought we were in South Bend with all the ND fans.

I was really surprised about was how inexpensive tickets were going for.  
Face value for the tickets was $16, and one guy had one ticket he said
he'd let go for $8.  Another guy had 4 tickets together and he was selling all 
4 for $50.  I figured you'd be lucky if you could find a ticket at face value.

One of the best parts of the evening may have been the pregame sermon.  They 
always have one before the game basically saying how small football is in 
real life and both teams are made up of great young men whether they win or 
lose, etc.  Well, this one started out: "Dear Lord, there is a nasty rumor 
going around.  We understand you have sent your very own team here tonight to
take on our AF Falcons."  It went on with about the usual stuff, asking that 
the Lord look down on both teams, and ended with: "And this blue-clad Catholic
priest asks one more favor from you tonight - Go Air Force, Humble the Irish!" 
It was great and everyone (at least the AF fans) got a good laugh out of it.

One thing that really irked me about this one was all the ND fans inside the 
stadium.  They had their regular road crowd as all teams do, although it was
*much* larger than AF's other opponents bring, needless to say.  But there was
also ND fans scattered all throughout the stadium as well, and some people who
were regulars at the game were suddenly ND fans.  I had some fun with some ND
fans sitting near us - I kept yelling things like 'Canes Rool!' and 
'Wolverines' and they were giving me a hard time about Miami's schedule.
(Although little do they realize that Miami's schedule isn't all that weak!)

Onto the game itself.  I felt it was a bittersweet performance for AF.  They
played much closer than expected, but on the other hand this was a night that
ND definitely could've been beaten (and by AF) but AF didn't take advantage of
some key opportunities in the first half.  Here's 3 key instances I feel were 
key to the outcome of the game:

  1.  Trailing 7-3, AF has just come back with another nice drive and has a 1st
      and goal at the ND 9.  They have to settle for a FG.
  2.  Trailing 7-6, AF recovers an ND punt around midfield.  AF moves the ball
      nicely to about the ND 25 but then not only does the drive stall but 
      AF misses a FG.  If you had to look to one single turning point in the 
      game this was it.
  3.  Trailing 14-6 late in the 2nd quarter AF fumbles down around their own
      30-yard line.  Combine this with fact that ND takes it in for a TD a few
      plays later to go up 21-6 and this was a very costly turnover for AF.  

AF did get a slight boost of momentum right before the half by making that 
58-yard field goal.  The ND fans really booed when AF got a 2nd chance at the
field goal after a procedure penalty nullified their first kick.

I like DeBerry's decision to try the onside kick at the start of the 2nd half
although it was somewhat of a desperation act.  AF was trailing 21-9 at the 
time and had only stopped ND once.  ND did go on to score after the onside
kick to go up 28-9 and the game was pretty much over at that point.  

The biggest surprise to me was how well AF ran the ball, especially the 
fullback Jones.  Was glad to hear that ESPN picked him as their player of the  
game.  Jones was also named WAC offensive player of the week for his efforts.   
AF fan for over 350 yards and had the ball for about 36 minutes.

MikeL, (or anybody), what did the ESPN announcers have to say about the game,
especially when AF was making a game of throughout most of the first half?
I was just curious, and like a dummy I didn't record the game.


Joe

    Joe -
    
    Good story.  Have to take you up on the "|Miami's schedule ain't all
    that weak' comment.  Next to Washington, the 'Canes have the easiest
    schedule of the top teams.
    
    Penns Stat and FSU are their only two big games.  Arkansas and Houston
    are SWC faux teams.  They've only beaten truley horrible teams.  Tulsa,
    Ok. State and Long Beach State are jokes.  Boston College and San Diego
    State are jokes.  West Virginia will be a little tougher.  Pretty easy
    schedule.  The only thing that surprised me, and they must be messing
    up, is that they didn't schedule an open date for the week before FSU,
    like they usually do before big games (like the ND games).  They like
    to have the opponent have a tough game the week before, while they have
    off.
    
    JD

    JD, I'll agree that Miami's schedule is the weakest of the top 8 teams
    with the exception of Washington.  Houston isn't nearly the team they
    were expected to be but Arkansas is ranked #25 this week by AP.  I say
    if you want one of the toughest schedules in the nation just join the
    SEC.  Playing on the road in that conference is murder.  Even before
    this past weekend, nobody was undefeated in SEC play.
    
    Joe

    jJoe -
    
    Yeah, I missed the 'backs at #25.  The SEC is murder, I'll agree there.
    
    Also, read a tidbit that the University of South Florida is
    investigating starting a football program.  They have 33,000 students -
    they are the 2nd largest school int he coutry without a football
    program.  
    
    Just what folks need, another florida school with football...
    
    JD

    Thanks Joe and BG,
    Good reports. 
    Actually, I really didn't pay close attention to the ESPN announcers.
    They touted the AF FB( name escapes me ),Perez and the Falcon spirit,
    as well as the commitment of DeBerry. I think one of them was a local
    (meaning WAC) announcer, he seemed pro-AF, but that's cool. Whoever
    was doing sideline duty for ESPN ought to git another job. His
    sideline interviews with the AF "mascots" were ludicrous. He
    interviewed one guy who was supposed to be dressed in official
    pilot combat garb. This "kid" looked more like a juvenile Superfly who
    needed Clearasil real bad. The interviewer was telling the story how
    the Falconettes train to fly real jets, while the ND guys trained to
    play for the Jets. Pretty morose. Hey Joe, ain't there any wimmin' out
    there to occupy these guys' minds? (as well as hormones! could've helped
    the Acne cockpit jockey)
    
    To the game itself. Sorry fellas, even though the Irish IMO played a
    real mediocre game, I never felt that the Falcons could upset them.
    ND seemed to turn it on when they wanted to and if the AF had gotten
    close, ND would have done something to turn it around. I'm not
    denigratin' AF, as I thought the 'bone hurt the Irish D, but the depth
    level of AF was really no match for ND. 
    The announcers heaped praise on Mirer(IMO undeserved) and Bettis
    (deserved) but overall, the Irish concentration was not there. Note
    the unforced turnovers(fumbled punt and Culver's fumble on the AF 10),
    numerous offside and prodecure penalties, Mirer's ineffectiveness on
    the timing patterns and short passing game (excepting the play to
    Tony Smith). Maybe they were looking past AF a bit (not an insult)
    towards USC. But that's two weeks in a row that Mirer has not looked
    good passing. Perhaps the bruised ribs are bothering him. I hope he's
    just in a minor slump and not reverting back to a major slump (poor
    2nd half of the season performance last year).
    This ND team is taking on a personality that can be prevalent in young
    squads if not corrected by the coaches: Stellar performances at
    home(OK!)with inconsistent performances on the road. The Irish, IMO
    have not really been tested at home yet, however, they have looked
    invincible at ND against opposition that was supposed to challenge
    them (MSU and Pitt in particular). Indiana has been their most
    impressive challenger at home so far( and were projected to be 5th
    out of 6 as far as rating tough games at home). On the road ( excepting
    the Michigan game where they were beaten by a better team) the Irish
    have looked invincible at times, such as the first half against
    Stanford and various drives vs AF. Other times, it appears their
    concentration has waned, and they look like they sleep-walk through
    stretches of the game. 
    Well,Holtz can be the master of motivation, and with the most
    challenging part of the schedule approaching, he'll have to gear the
    team to the next level. No matter the records of USC, Tennessee, and
    Penn St, the Irish will be put to severe tests. The challenge for Holtz
    and defensive coordinator Darnell is to replace the two injured
    starting defensive tackles, Eric Jones and Junior Bryant who both
    broke ankles vs AF and are both, I believe, out for the season. Their
    replacements, I believe are a sophomore and a freshman. Should be
    challenging and interesting.  More later.
    
    MikeL
    
    PS. Joe, I hope you caught plenty of abuse from your Irish-supporting
    relatives! Next AF-ND game at the Shrine, you and Big Game gots to make
    the trek to South Bend where you'll realy get sick of the Fight Song!
    
    
    

    JD,
    USF= 33,000 students 2nd largest without a football program?
    What's the largest? Ohio St?  8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    Thats great !!!!   
    
    Big Game

    Read in the Herald that ND officials will consider a proposal to
    expand Notre Dame Stadium ( da house dat Rock built ). The place seats
    59,075( and in cold weather wif bulky apparel, mucho uncomfortably).
    Don't have anty more details at this point. I'd like to see it done,
    however not sure if the old structure cain take it. Not a bad seat,
    view-wise in the hallowed place.  They could easily seat 90k,IMO
    for all games.  ND has sold out 148 out of its last 149 games( I
    was at da game that didn't sell out- 1973 Thanksgiving day game vs
    AF I believe). 
    
    MikeL
    

    Week 8, THE RIVALRY!  Will that Malibu dawg be yelpin' the ND fight
    song fer the 9th straight year? Or will he be whinin' while some cur
    croons out "Fight On" ?  This game always scares me, and this year
    particularly so, as it reminds me of my freshman year battle between
    the two teams. In 1971, ND was undefeated,ranked in the top three,and
    was hosting an inconsistent 2-3 USC team. Wha' happened you ask? Wail,
    USC proceeded to kick butt in a 28-13 upset. 
    This year's Trojan team comes in at 3-3 and having another
    inconsistent year. Losing to Memphis St, Arizona, and Stanford, giving
    up 28 points to a mediocre Wash. St team had them scratchin' their
    haids and wailin' at the Tommy Trojan statue. In the middle of all
    this, USC rises up and spanks a Top 5 Penn St team. Which team will
    show up at South Bend? I hope the former. 
    You know Larry Smith will have his team pumped having set as his #3
    goal this year to beat ND. We all know his first two goals( winnin'
    the Pac 10 und Rose Bowl) are by the boards, and with no pressure
    on them, they'll come out blazin'. Whether they can maintain it for
    four quarters at the Shrine, we'll see.
    
    Notre Dame 1991 Record: 6-1
    USC        1991 Record: 3-3
    
    Series: Notre Dame leads 35-23-4
    Current series streak: 8 by Notre Dame
    Last ND win: 10-6,1990 at the Coliseum
    Last USC win:17-13,1982 at the Coliseum
    Longest ND win streak: 8 (1983-1990)
    Longest USC win streak:5 (1978-1982)
    
    USC comes into the game sporting a young backfield that can move the
    ball well on the ground via the option and power game. It lacks the
    third ingredient, the passing game, to be a consistent, powerful
    offensive threat. They can put some points on the board, and they'll
    hang a few up on the wounded Irish "d". Soph QB Reggie Perry can run
    the ball but has been real ineffective via the pass. TB's Mazio
    Royster( Jr.) and Deon Strother(So.) alternate and will pile up some
    yardage behind USC's deep offensive line (not all that big). Perry's
    favorite receivers when he can get it there are flanker Curtis Conway
    (also backup QB) and WR Johnnie Morton. USC will have to prove to
    ND that it can pass, as in the beginning, the Irish linebackers will
    be playing close to shut off the run. The loss of two Defensive lineman
    for the Irish will hurt,as their replacements are young and green.
    USC should be able to move the ball on the ground (not dominate like
    Michigan,but consistently move) and if they can get any passing game
    set to stretch out the Irish d, we might see the Irish involved in a
    tug-of-war at home, something that hasn't happened this year. If USC
    can maintain offensive consistency for four quarters, it will be 
    interesting to see how the Irish respond in a tight game at home.
    Personally, I think USC will be hard-pressed to keep up with ND in
    the fourth quarter but you can throw out predictability in this
    rivalry.
    USC's defense (front seven) resembles ND's situation. Inexperience
    in the line backed by a strong LB crew. Their secondary is mediocre,
    so USC will be tested severely on d. The Irish should be able to
    move pretty well both on the ground and in the air, unless Mirer
    has another bad day. If Mirer is off, look for an uphill climb fer
    the Irish.
    I look for USC to push it early, and try to make the Irish play
    catch-up. ND has started out sluggishly at home in the first quarter
    and has revved it up in the 2nd and 3rd. USC will try to pin the 
    Irish deep in their own territory as their punter has nailed 11 punts
    inside the 20 so far this year. This could be a distinct possibility
    as I think the Trojans will move, and if they do get stopped, it will
    take the Irish D a couple of series of downs to stop the Trojan attack.
    
    I do believe that USC does not have the guns to stay with ND the whole
    game. What scares me too is the 16 point spread. Cain't see it.
    
    Notre Dame 30
    USC        20
    
    MikeL
    
    Dat dawg continues to howl wif pleasure.
    
    MikeL
      
    
    
    
    
     
    

    ND basketball (Men) schedule. Home in CAPS
    
    11/26  BUTLER
    12/3   at Indiana
    12/5   LOUISVILLE
    12/9   at Valparaiso
    12/11  at Boston College
    1/2    at Kentucky
    1/6    at USC
    1/9    at LaSalle
    1/11   at North Carolina
    1/13   at West Virginia
    1/21   at Marquette
    1/23   MISSOURI
    1/27   DAYTON
    1/29   DEPAUL
    2/1    at Duke
    2/4    DETROIT
    2/9    MICHIGAN
    2/11   STANFORD
    2/15   at Syracuse
    2/18   MARQUETTE
    2/22   UCLA
    2/25   at Dayton
    2/27   LOYOLA(Ill)
    2/29   ST JOHN'S
    3/3    XAVIER
    3/7    at DePaul
    3/9    at Evansville
    
    Tornaments? Not this year. Major recruiting time. Wow, out of the first
    12 games, 10 on the road. Killer schedule. Hope they're competetive.
    Hey T. How's about them 10-15 points? On the road at IU on 12/3,steel
    wet behind their ears. Knight must be lickin' his chops. Show yer
    mainhood and belly up to the bar! How about you Chris. Give me 20 
    (1/11 at UNC ) and we'll talk. I'll take about 12 from you, Huntmeister
    (1/18 at UVA ). How's about 10 from you Kev (2/29 SJU), and where is 
    Lou M? I'll take 13 from you (2/9 Michigan). I hope you take
    Confederate money!!
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

   � 1/11   at North Carolina
   � 1/13   at West Virginia
   � 1/21   at Marquette
   � 1/23   MISSOURI
 
 � I'll take about 12 from you, Huntmeister (1/18 at UVA ).
 
 Huh ???  I don't see a 1/18 game in C'ville here, do you ???   What is
 this, more cheap provocations ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    Whoops whoops,whoops Roberto,
    
    Insert 
    1/18 at Virginia.
    I'll steel want 12.  
    
    MikeL
    Is you game or cheeken like da others??
    
    MikeL
    

 �   1/18 at Virginia.
 �   I'll steel want 12.  
 
 I'll gave you 6 and 'Saw, my new Wahoo compatriot, will give you 6.  
 There, that's 12.   You got it.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Yahoo Wahooo, Two,Two Two times 6=12
    There's two mainly men fer ya .
    Let's see winner gets seven course meal from loser.
    OK, if'n Virginny takes it (by 13, 12 is tie), I send you Irish seven
    course meal. Six pack of Harp and boiled potato.You get to send 'Saw
    three brews and 1/2 spud.
    What's me dinner if'n the Irish take it?
    
    MikeL
    
    PS
    Yo Wildcat, I plumb fergot.
    I beseech 14 from y'all ( 1/2 at Kaintuck). BTW. Adolph Rupp is one of
    MacLeod's idols
    
    
    
    

    MikeL,
    
    Still mullin over the 10 - not quite ready to agree but am leaning
    towards the "yup"!
    
    Kev
    

    Kev,
    I win you pay da freight. You win, I pay. 
    If'n the Lord's willin' and the crick don't rise. You gots it.
    Lean  a tad more!!
    
    MikeL
    

    Looks like ND brought back their refs from the '88 Miami game against
    USC.  I didn't see the game, but ESPN was kind enough to show the
    nation that invalid TD by the Irish.  
    
    NBC should suffer pretty good in the ratings this coming Saturday.  :^)
    
    
    Joe

 yeah Walsh tried to igKnorr (tm) it but Dicky wouldn't let it go...what
 else is new in South Bend. When in doubt cheat...Got to admit though
 Bettis a load....

 mike

    Joe,
    Was a bad call. Brooks fumbled the ball clearly before the goal line
    and possibly at the one yard line. The referee on that side of the
    field looked to be in a poor position to make any type of judgement.
    He was positioned at least three or four yards deep in the end zone
    and on the sideline. Because of his position, he might have been
    screened by an ND blocker and SC tackler. No excuse, he blew the call.
    Walsh and Enberg both questioned the TD as soon as they saw the replay
    from the end zone camera. Walsh did say it was a definite fumble and
    not a TD. NBC picked up on the call real quick.
    
    On the game itself.  I thought I was having deja vu . Shades of '71.
    ND was fortunate they won and I was impressed with both squad's play.
    1. USC's ability to shake off a poor start and compete quite
    effectively throughout the game 2.ND's ability to respond positively 
    in a tight, pressure-packed game at home. I believe both teams will
    benefit from this match. Here's hoping that USC can play consistently
    well and drub UDub. Although they've owned 'SC  recently as have the
    Irish, the Huskies better not underestimate the Trojans. I look for
    'SC to spank UCal this coming weekend.
    
    As far as the referee who blew the call; I heard a humorous story that
    it was jest a make-up call. Seems there is a rumor floating around that
    this same ref worked the sideline during the '80 SC-ND clash in the
    Coliseum. He signalled an 'SC touchdown as Charles White soared above
    the pack, crossed the plain and scored the winning TD. Only trouble was
    he missed Charles droppin' the ball at the two on the way up. 8^)
    
    Don't worry. Lou will think of something to keep himself paranoid and
    the nation amused..
    
    MikeL
    
    
     

    Joe,
    From what I understand, Holtz has been preachin' "Be wary of Navy"
    As you stated, the tie score at halftime last year and the 'Cats
    upset of Illinois are getting plenty of mileage from Lou. 
    41 point favorites?  Take Navy and the points. The Irish will sleep-
    walk through this one and win by 30. 
    
    MikeL
    

>    From what I understand, Holtz has been preachin' "Be wary of Navy"
    
       C'mon now. What team do they play that he DOESN'T build up out of
    all reasonable proportion? Kinda like the guy who always yells FIRE,
    after a while nobody listens (except 'the faithful').
                                        Denny

    AF did beat Navy 45-6 after only leading 7-6 at the half.  Navy is
    downright terrible.  They haven't won a game, and their schedule has
    included 2 I-AA teams plus Ball State and Bowling Green.  I would take
    ND and give the points in a second.  About the only thing going for
    Navy is ND has 2 very big games (and at least 1 loss) coming up in the
    next 2 weeks.
    
    
    Joe

    Navy has lost at least one of their 1-AA games, to Delaware.  Their
    other 1-AA game is usually against William and Mary and I wouldn't be
    surprised if they lost that one too.
    
    I can't understand why athletics in general and football in particular
    is so much better at the Air Force Academy than at either Army or Navy. 
    It doesn't seem to matter who the coach is at either Army or Navy, they
    still stink.  Does Air Force get that much better athletes?  Is it the
    coach?  Is it the conference affiliation?
    
    John

    Ninj,
    Good question. I believe AF has been consistently good since Hatfield/
    DeBerry coaching combo( early 80's onward). Cain't answer your question
    on Army and Navy though. Thought that Army and Navy had OK teams in the
    mid-80's (under Jim Young and Welsh/Uzelac I believe.) Actually saw a
    decent Army team (using the bone of course) make mincemeat of BC in '85
    at the Post (luv to get back there for a game).
    
    Denny,
    That's Holtz' shtick. He portrays paranoia,uses it as motivation for
    his team. In private though to his team ( ask the CU fans who hoid him
    telling his players that CU was living a lie two years ago!) he's
    quite realistic. If he believes his team is superior to an opponent,
    he'll tell 'em that, point out the relative strenghts and  weaknesses,
    tell his boys to kick butt, and that the other team doesn't deserve to
    be on the field with ND. His players believe that, and it's not
    being stuck-up, just confident cockiness ( fine line there). He's one
    hail of a coach, despite his annoying paranoid public persona.
    BTW, AH couldn't find y'all,Slasher and Chap on Sunday. I got to
    Foxboro around 1:30, looked around the general area you guys told me
    fer 20 minutes or so and couldn't locate ya. Had to give up the search
    tho as it was cuttin' into me refreshment time 8^)
    
    Joe,
    Interesting CAREFUL comments this week regarding the AF game from ND
    quarters. Holtz was real careful in praising AF and DeBerry, however
    he was concerned about the cut blocks employed by the AF offensive
    line. These blocks (legal as Holtz reiterated) are actually clipping
    within three yards of the line of scrimmage, again legal. The two
    broken ankle injuries sustained by the Irish defensive line (DT's
    Eric Jones and Bryant Young) occured when the cut blocks were 
    employed (both by the tight end BTW). A reporter interviewing Holtz
    brought up the fact the several Irish players over the years have
    sustained serious leg injuries playing AF. Holtz said nothing but
    reiterated that the block was legal, his players prepared for it,
    and that AF was a highly ethical team that wouldn't injure anyone
    on purpose. I sincerely believe that, so don't take this the wrong
    way. Have there been any other circumstances where other teams
    have sustained serious injuries playing AF' bone?  My concern is,
    in the broad sense, does the blocking scheme of the Wishbone cause
    circumstances where serious injury (i.e. the cut block) can occur?
    If this "legal clipping" is outlawed will it in effect, severely
    curtail the 'Bone's effectiveness? Again Holtz strongly reiterated
    his respect for the AF program and meant no disparagement. His point
    was, should this block be declared illegal? Any thoughts?
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
    Crackback blocks near the line of scrimmage, while perhaps dangerous,
    would be extremely difficult to enforce against.  It's too damn
    congested in there, for one thing, to ask a guy to make sure a player's
    facing him before making a block (hell, these guys have a hard enough
    time with that one on kickoffs in the wide open field).  I'm inclined
    to let 'em play.  Football is a dangerous game, period, and the
    crackback is just one of many things about the game that are
    potentially harmful that you can't do much about, short of going
    to touch football...
    
    glenn
    

    John, Navy has already lost to Bill & Mary.
    
    I think it's a great tribute to Air Force football that they have been
    able to field very competitive teams throughout the 80's while Army and
    Navy have started losing to I-AA teams.  AF's biggest accomplishments
    in the past decade have been a 12-1 season in 1985 and a final top 10
    ranking, numerous bowl victories which include wins over Texas and Ohio
    State, and last but most the four straight wins over Notre Dame.  Army has 
    managed to knock AF 2 or 3 times the past decade but AF has won 10 
    straight over the Midshipmen.  
    
    The only factor I can really think of is the coaching.  AF football has
    only gotten good the past 10 years or so, and in that time they have
    had 2 great coaches in Ken Hatfield and now Fisher DeBerry.  Hatfield
    has proven his worth by moving on to big-time programs Arkansas and now
    Clemson.  I don't think AF gets better athletes - AF has size
    restrictions that I'm not sure Navy or Army has.  About the only other
    possible factor I can think of is this: if there's a good football
    player who wants to go to a service academy (and could get into an
    academy, of course) he probably would lean toward AF because they have
    had the most recent success of the 3 major academies.  
    
    As for playing in the WAC, you certainly wouldn't see AF doing this
    well in the Big 10 or SEC for example, but their schedules have still
    been as tough as if not tougher than Army and Navy's the past decade.
    
    Meanwhile, AF basketball has been a perennial doormat in a conference
    that is slightly closer to the powerhouse conferences in basketball than 
    in football, while Navy has managed to come within one win of making
    the Final Four.  Army hasn't done much on the basketball court recently
    that I know of.
    
    
    Joe

    Glenn,
    Crackback blocks are more of an occurence with the Wishbone than
    any other type of option-oriented offense. I'm talking about the
    'designed' crackback ala the Wishbone, not the occasional blocks
    that come with any other type of "O". I'm inclined to agree with
    ya on lettin' 'em play, and that football is dangerous, but I'm not
    sure I'd feel too comfortable if I am the strong side LB or DT
    defensing the 'bone, knowing that someone has the assingment of
    blocking me and odds are he's behind me!
    
    MikeL
    

    A little heads up for the Irish fans... the Lion is awake and expects
    to make the season when you visit.  PSU started very poorly, but the
    boys are pumped for you.  The lions have about four solid running backs
    rounding into form, and Sacca actually looks good.
    
    We're gonna getcha AGAIN.
    
    Rick

    	Mike, Denny wasn't with us Sunday but we got to the parking
    lot around 1:00 and it was already loaded (as were half the patrons)
    so it would've been tough finding us anyway.  If you were in that
    parking lot what the hell were all those State Police doing down
    the far end?  Looked like a drug bust.  Oh yeah Navy might have
    a chance in this game if they can pack a few sufrace to surface
    missiles in their equipment bag...
    
    				/Don

    Slash,
    I heard a pretty big explosion(sounded like a car backfire). Someone
    said it was a propane container(small one) and then I saw all those
    State cops. Heard nothing else after that. Great day in the lot. A few
    of our neighbors (young whippasnappas, 18-20 yrs old,) were, ah, in
    their cups by 2:30. Not rude, jest silly. Coupla of dem took naps in
    their car and had to be awakened at 3:45 to go to the game. They 
    had a coupla dozen Garcia Vega cigars,proceeded to dump the cigars,
    and fill the tubes with Absolut! Wouldn't want to be a-sittin near
    them.
    
    Yo' Cowardly Lion Rick 8^).
    Go back ta sleep until 11/16. We still gots Navy(Yawn) and the Vols
    B4 PSU. PSU will be a tough chore fer the Irish. I was at ND last year
    when the Lions came back to dump the Irish. Wouldn't be surprised if'n
    they do it agin this year. Let's see how both teams fare until then
    Who does PSU play before the 16th? 
    BTW, a few of us will be a-travellin to Happy Valley to watch the
    proceedings on 11/16 if all goes well. (meself,Glenn Waugamain,und
    Dave Mcneil) Two of the three of us are ND rooters. Cain you identify
    the Lion supporter?
    
    
    MikeL
    

    PSU is idle tomorrow and plays at Maryland on the 9th.
    
    Joe

    Thanks Joe,
    The Irish will whup PSU giving Joe Pa more worry lines makin' him not
    only the ugliest dresser but UMOC.
    We all know PSU will be psyched to win 'cuz it's one of their last
    chances to get into a major bowl b4 matriculating to the Big Ten
    Then's it's Citrus Bowl every year. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    
>    The Irish will whup PSU giving Joe Pa more worry lines makin' him not
>    only the ugliest dresser but UMOC.
 
    Hey, lay off Greasy Joe.  He's slowly working his way out of the
    1940s, both in dress and style of football (but not his politics)...
    
    This won't be much of an upset if Penn State wins, Rick.  With the
    home-field advantage to Penn State I'd say it's fairly even-up.
    The only thing I'm concerned about is how much the Lions will miss
    their defensive captain, Mark D'Onofrio, in a big game.
    
    waugamain
    
    

    Don't have mucho time fer a lenghty analysis of the ND-UT game
    buts Ah predicts
    
    ND-27
    UT-24
    Nice cold November nailbiter
    
    MikeL
    Who'll be hurlin' epithats at Johnny "almost won the Heisman" Majors
    from behind the Tennesssee bench, Row 40 on the 30 yard line.
    UT will be "almost" in this game too
    
    
    

    The VOLS kinda took the shine off the PSU matchup...
    
    Rick

    
    It was a strange game. You normally don't see the big calls go against
    Note Dame there, but in the 2nd half Notre Dame got it stuck to 'em. I
    guess this helps even out for some other games. I was kinda hoping PSU
    would be the ones to knock them off next week. I hop it doesn't fire
    them up too much.
    
    Dennis
    

    I'm steel in shock ( und exhausted). Besides the few thousand Vols fans
    goin' nuts (rightfully so) the crowd in the stadium was stunned. Not
    many of the Irish fans moved for 10-15 minutes. We all just shook our
    heads and stared at the Orange celebration on the field. Students just
    continued to stand there as we were exiting. Weird. Ah never woulda
    thunk it possible with ND up 31-7 and seemingly driving for another
    TD before halftime. That blocked FG at the end of the 1st half and
    Tennessee's subsequent TD on their first possession of the 2nd half
    really turned the mo' 'round. Conservative, Woody Hayes-style, play
    not-to-lose offensive scheme (dang you Lou and "O" coordinator) kept
    Tennessee's mo' going. Great 2nd half coaching and execution by
    Tennessee. Irish "D" on the field too long in the 2nd half ( thanks in
    combo by Vols' stuntin, agressive d, Irish conservatism and
    play-calling of Irish "o") and was simply overmatched.
    Ya think the QB's switched uniforms? Kelly was on target the second
    half and Mirer did his Jekyll-Hyde thang ( exceptin' last drive)
    
    Congrats to Tennessee, they deserved to win after such a great
    comeback. I'm more pissed off than disappointed. When you're up
    31-7 at home, no way you should lose. Cheeken bone in throat hurts
    
    MikeL
    PS - The jinx lives on. I don't want to go near Beaver Stadium
    
    

                      
    As I just told Mike on the phone, that was one of the great comebacks 
    in college football history, and one of its great games.  Disappointing
    to ND, no question, but if you take a step back for a moment, no 
    matter who you were rooting for you witnessed one of those games
    that'll live for the ages (and that only college football can deliver).
    
    While I too was initially disappointed as a Penn State fan that
    ND lost and seemingly took a little luster off of next Saturday's 
    game, on second thought it may work out better for PSU this way.  
    Both teams have two losses now, but both are still highly regarded 
    and are in contention for the plum of a slot in one of the four 
    major bowls.  If Penn State wins, Notre Dame has three losses and I 
    can't see how ND would receive preference over the Lions.  That 
    might not have been the case if ND had beaten Tennessee and then 
    lost to PSU, given Notre Dame's premier attractiveness to the major 
    bowls, even with two losses. 
    
    So, it appears as if the two teams may be brawling for the prime
    time on New Year's Day this coming weekend, and I'm getting pumped 
    up to be there and see it!
    
    glenn
    

    
        As the wars raged in the fabled stadium
        Another cold November day waned
        The campus and stadium were awash
          in bright late afternoon colors
        The Dome basked in the Golden sunlight
        The day grew late
        Colors changed
        The sun slowly sank into the Western abyss
        The Dome reflected the changes
        Splashes of Orange amid the Gold
        As the climactic roars emitted from the grounds
        The statue of Our Lady on the Dome seemed to gaze west
        Observers noticed the statue shudder
        The expected sunset was not there
        Smoldering Burnt Orange could not be found
        Bright Orange blazed in its place
    
    
     

    	Hey MikeL, you been going to the "'Saw School of Poetry"?  8^)
    It was a great game, but Holtz should've realized the pressure that
    he was putting on some walk on and at least tried a few plays for
    the end zone at the end of the game.  If FSU beats both Miami and
    Florida I can't fault them for taking an easy opponent in the Orange
    Bowl.
    
    				/Don

    What a great 2 game series this has been with plenty of excitement and 
    each team stealing one in the other's back yard.  
    
    I was really pissed off at UT because they had those 2 big turnovers
    early which put them down 14-zip.  But after ND drove 90+ yards for
    their first legit TD and went up 21-0 I pretty much lost hope for the 
    Vols.  At 24-7 UT was driving but after a completed pass the UT
    receiver fumbled and it appeared that UT would have a long day and
    could do no right.  When it was 31-7 right before half I too thought ND
    would take it in for 7.  It's kind of funny, (and this is the truth!)
    right before ND's FG attempt after that drive, I said to myself 'Block
    it and run it back for TD, Vols, and then you will still have a prayer
    of a chance.'  Sure enough, that's what happened, although when it was
    blocked it didn't appear UT would return it at all.    
    
    After UT went ahead, I figured ND would put together one good drive
    after sputtering through the 2nd half.  Mirer should've centered the
    ball more right before the FG attempt.  
    
    Tremendous comeback by the Vols, and the biggest one ever by an
    opponent at ND.  Yes, I love it!!!  Now, make it 2 in a row next week,
    Lions!  ND hasn't lost 2 in a row since at least '87.  Or has it been
    longer than that?
    
    
    Joe

    
   > If FSU beats both Miami and
   > Florida I can't fault them for taking an easy opponent in the Orange
   > Bowl.
    
    If FSU beats both Miami and Florida there won't be too many other
    teams available to prove something against.  The real question is 
    if Miami beats FSU will they wimp out and stay home against the Big
    8 champ instead of going to the Sugar Bowl to play Florida?  The
    Orange Bowl is a damn home game for Miami, a bigger advantage than
    even the Rose Bowl is to the Pac-10 champ.
    
    On ESPN Saturday night, the geeky Lee Corso (no doubt still
    shell-shocked from his years at Indiana-- bye-bye Top 25) was trying 
    to give Miami an excuse for staying home by citing Florida's snub of 
    Miami a of couple years ago, while the upright, mainly Chris Fowler 
    properly countered that if Miami ducks Florida for a creampuff home 
    game in the Orange Bowl, they're cowards undeserving of the Mythical.
    If that happens, I'll throw my support to Washington.  If they can
    handle a *real* power in Michigan while Miami ducks and covers,
    the Huskies are most deserving.
    
    glenn
    
    

 But the best part of all these bowl politics is that Notre Dame is O-U-T
 of the picture ... would have been really bogus to force the mythical to
 go thru Holtz to get it.
 
 Now, NBC can broadcast the rest of their Notre Dame games in relative
 peace and quiet.   Thank God ...
 
 Florida State's tests are coming right up.  If they survive these nexted
 two, I say they're entitled to an easy coronation ceremony come New
 Year's Day.   Maybe even against Notre Dame ... :-) :-) :-)
 
 Bob Hunt

    Glenn, I agree that FSU won't have much of another choice than the
    Orange if they beat Miami.  But the Orange sure will be pissed if FSU
    knocks off Miami but loses at Florida on the 30th, which BTW is nearly
    2 weeks after bowl bids come out.  As for Miami, I can't blame them for
    staying at home but a Miami-Florida would be a great game and a win
    over the Gators would probably solidify the Canes as #1 if Washington
    beats Michigan.  I say Miami or FSU will beat the Big 8 champ by
    at least 20 points in the Orange Bowl.  
    
    I understand the Sugar wants ND, but they might change their mind if ND
    loses to PSU this weekend.  The Fiesta has supposedly lost interest in
    the Irish.  Colorado will probably go to the Fiesta if Nebraska beats
    Oklahoma.
    
    What about this scenario, which isn't all that far-fetched:  
    FSU beats Miami
    Florida beats FSU
    Michigan beats Ohio State (which has seemingly been assumed)
     
    Going into the bowls we have:
    1. Washington
    2. Michigan
    3. Florida
    
     .....or do we have:
    1. Washington
    2. Florida
    3. Michigan         ???????????????????????
    
    Anyway, Florida wins the Sugar and Michigan beats Washington.  Who is
    #1, Florida or Washington??  I would say Florida.
    
    One of the best and least things mentioned when a playoff (assuming it
    would involve 16 teams) is discussed is the chance it would give teams 
    who otherwise have no hope of winning the mythical.  Good examples this
    year include California, Iowa, Texas A&M, Tennessee, Bama and East
    Carolina, among others.
    
    
    Joe

    
>    Anyway, Florida wins the Sugar and Michigan beats Washington.  Who is
>    #1, Florida or Washington??  I would say Florida.
     
    Don't you mean Florida or Michigan?  Washington would definitely
    be out of the picture.  You don't play a relatively weak schedule
    like theirs, lose in the Rose and come away national champs.  But
    the Florida-Michigan vote would be a real tough one.  It would
    undoubtedly depend on quality of performance as much as the outcome
    of the games.
    
    I don't see that scenario occurring, though.  I don't think Florida
    has enough to beat Florida St.  However, Miami does, but I can't
    really call a winner there.  I know I'll be put off if Miami wins
    that game and plays in the Orange though.  They'd be staking almost
    their entire championship claim on that one win over FSU.  I'd like
    to see them play another against the proverbial "best available 
    opponent".  Everyone knows a game against the Big-8 champ will be a
    rout...
    
    glenn
    

    Yea, I obviously meant Michigan, Glenn.  Would be a pretty tough one,
    huh?  Florida would have the edge of having beaten FSU whereas Michigan
    lost to them yet Michigan will have beaten the #1 team on New Year's
    Day.  You're probably right though, in that it would come down to who
    had the more impressive win in their bowl.
    
    Miami-FSU is a tough one.  FSU appears to be struggling the past 4-6
    weeks (if that really means anything), but I have to give the edge to
    FSU because of home field and they're really starving for all the
    marbles.  But if I remember right, Miami has an incredibly good record
    against #1 teams the past decade.
    
    But that game aside, I think Florida will knock off FSU on the 30th. 
    Florida is awful tough at home.
    
    
    Joe

    Joe,
    You guys ain't invadin' this is interesting stuff. Don't be fooled by
    FSU's seemingly uninspired performances. Their schedule hasn't been 
    very challenging post-Michigan (save for that gritty performance
    agin' LSU in da mud). I look for FSU to dump Miami because I feel
    that FSU has the better athletes. Now Florida vs FSU, IMO will be
    a dandy. If FSU beats Miami and ND beats PSU, look for both the
    winners to go to Tempe. Even if the Irish have two losses, I think
    they will be a more attractive foe than Nebraska in the Orange.
    What happens if both FSU and PSU wins?  Methinks it will then be
    FSU in the Orange and PSU vs.Florida in the Sugar. And all Washington
    and Michigan can do is sit back and wait. Why do I get the funny
    feeling that the best game would be Florida-Washington. Huh, watch
    Miami win it all again( DRAT)
    
    As far as ND goes, I'd like to see 'em come out charged up against
    the Lions. It will be tough for them to bounce back from such an
    emotional and devastating loss. But this team is young and hopefully
    can bounce back. Even though I am disappointed in the loss to
    Tennessee, any legitimate shot they had at the champeenship this
    year would be simply gravy. I thought before the season started
    they could be a top 15 team (anywhere from 6-15) but not a real
    legit Top 5 team (like FSU, Washington, Miami, Michigan, and Florida)
    I predicted 9-3 or 10-2 so ah'm hoping now fer 10-2. 
    
    Slasher, as far as the last-second field goal attempt goes, the kicker
    was the replacement for the injured starter Hentrich. He was quoted
    in the paper as saying that he hit it square, but it was partially
    blocked by the Tennessee drop end (hit him in the top of the butt, hmm,
    musta had a 'SawButt (TM) 8^) ). In fact the Tennessee player was
    funny in his interview. He admitted the ball hit him in the butt and
    said " My mama is always gettin' on me because of my big butt. Well,
    it paid off for me today. Guess I'll have to thank Mama 'cuz I 
    inherited it from her."  Wonder if he'll see any great meals at home
    after dat statement!
    Blocking on FG's was a sore spot for the Irish all day. The right side 
    of the Tennessee D went right through the Irish left side on all
    Irish FG attempts. 
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

>    If FSU beats Miami and ND beats PSU, look for both the
>    winners to go to Tempe. Even if the Irish have two losses, I think
>    they will be a more attractive foe than Nebraska in the Orange.
 
    The Miami-FSU has pretty much decided that they will opt for the
    Orange.
    
>    What happens if both FSU and PSU wins?  Methinks it will then be
>    FSU in the Orange and PSU vs.Florida in the Sugar. 
    
    Probably right.  I mentioned before that I heard the Sugar wants ND,
    but I don't see how they can take ND over if PSU only has 2 losses
    while ND has 3 and PSU has beaten ND.  The Sugar would love to get a
    Miami-Florida matchup but probably won't.
    
    Back to the UT-ND game for a minute.  There's 3 things I wanted to
    point out about ND's FG attempt at the end:
    
    1. As I mentioned earlier, Mirer should've tried to get the ball closer
    to the middle of the field, especially with the rookie kicker.
    
    2. It looked as though Tennessee could've been offsides, although the
    only angle I ever saw was from behind the goalposts.
    
    3. With all those UT guys getting penetration into ND's backfield I'm
    amazed they didn't get a better block on the kick.
    
    
    Joe

    
>    Probably right.  I mentioned before that I heard the Sugar wants ND,
>    but I don't see how they can take ND over if PSU only has 2 losses
>    while ND has 3 and PSU has beaten ND.  The Sugar would love to get a
>    Miami-Florida matchup but probably won't.
     
    From this morning's Boston Globe, it appears as if most of the major 
    bowls are set regardless of what happens the rest of the way (except 
    for the Miami-Florida State game).  It's the old "why wait for the
    NCAA-mandated bowl deadline when you can make deals under the table
    beforehand" game.  Miami-FSU winner to Orange, loser to Cotton; Notre 
    Dame to Sugar (win or lose); Penn State (win or lose) to Fiesta 
    versus Tennessee; Alabama to Blockbuster (opponent undecided, probably
    Colorado or Nebraska); California to Citrus (versus ACC champ,
    probably Clemson); Syracuse to Hall of Fame...
    
    Insert all standard disclaimers about how bad all this stinks but
    will improve next year with The Alliance, blah, blah, blah...
    
    glenn
     

    Exactly right on Joe concerning ND's last running play. Any kind
    of slant to the left would have been in the middle of the field.
    
    Concerning bowl matchups, the Boston Globe printed the unofficial
    matchups for the games. Seems as if the Globe has some inside sources
    that claim that all is set (unofficially of course)
    I'm not sure if someone has posted this elsewhere but here goes:
    
    FSU has reached a decision to go to the Orange Bowl if it beats
    Miami. If it loses it will accept a bid to the Cotton Bowl.
    Miami will go to the Orange Bowl if it beats FSU, but is up in the
    air on a bowl if it loses. Miami expressed interest in going to either
    the Cotton, Fiesta, or Blockbuster if it loses. 
    
    Two bowl games are definite according to the Globe:
    Sugar Bowl- Florida vs. Notre Dame ( no matter how they fare against
                                         Penn St. )
    
    Fiesta Bowl- Tennessee vs.Penn St ( no matter how they fare vs ND)
    
    As far as the rest of the biggies:
    
    Orange Bowl- FSU-Miami winner vs. Big Eight champ
    Rose   Bowl  Washington vs Michigan
    Cotton Bowl- Texas A&M vs FSU/Miami loser (defintely FSU if it loses,
                                               if Miami loses, Cotton
                                               leaning towards Alabama)
                              or Big Eight loser
    Blockbuster- Alabama vs Miami or others
                 or Miami vs others (if Cotton opts for Alabama)
    
     Confusing? So far
    
    MikeL
    

    Collision Glenn!
    That speed typing course ya took paid off. Beat me by one minute.
    Hah,we read the same column and chart and still came out with
    slightly different results.
    
    BTW how is N'Awlins round New Years?
    
    MikeL
    

    
>        BTW how is N'Awlins round New Years?
 
    You know it's fine, which is why as a Penn State fan I'd like to
    see the winner of the game this weekend get to go!  But, truth be
    told, if it weren't maybe for the slight embarrassment involved
    and if things were decided purely for financial reasons (read: TV
    ratings), all of these bowls would gladly take Notre Dame with as
    many as four losses.  This is one of the reasons I don't think the
    much-hyped "Alliance" is going to fix the bowl problems...
    
>    Hah,we read the same column and chart and still came out with
>    slightly different results.
     
    Duh.  I read the article but didn't even see the chart.  I screwed
    up the Blockbuster matchup, which may feature Alabama against either
    Ohio State, Miami, or Virginia (not Nebraska-Colorado).  Wonderful 
    how the Big Ten in its infinite wisdom is going to be sending 
    also-rans to the major bowls while top-caliber teams like Iowa will 
    get exiled to obscurity.
    
    glenn
            

    Wait till next year when the Big Ten commited its' second and third
    place finishers to the Citrus and Holiday Bowls. Guess the Big ten
    won't see many of its teams in any of the Alliance Bowls.
    
    Ya think Penn St might want to reconsider? 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    
>        Ya think Penn St might want to reconsider? 8^)
 
    Fortunately, the "deal" (really the "steal") only affects Penn State
    in 1993 and 1994.  This and next year they're still free to roam
    as a_independent.
    
>                  -< All 4 tix are up in 3rd tier for Sat!! >-
 
    Okay guys, I'll be able to give a first-hand report first thing
    Monday morning on the attitudes of ND fans, since even though the 
    game's at Beaver it looks like I'll be settin' in the holier-than-thou 
    section!  Not complainin'!  Laissez le bon temps rouler!
    
    glenn
    

    Whilst you will be in the "holier than thou section" please remember
    to show deference to yo' superiors. 8^)'s  
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Yo MrT ...
    
    
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    HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    DrM

    I saw Holtz on Sportscenter last night and he seemed upset about going
    to the Sugar Bowl.  Something about a Louisiana governor trying to get
    elected.  Why is Holtz upset?  What's the deal here?
    
    
    Joe

    The incumbent Lousiana Governor, Buddy Roemer, lost the Republican
    Primary to David Duke, who apparently has many racist, KKK-type
    leanings.  His Democratic opponent is Edwin Edwards, who is part of
    Louisiana's great tradition of "fast and loose" politics (ie, allegedly
    corrupt).  It's a real lose-lose choice for the Louisiana voters.  It's
    a real lose-lose choice for the Bush Administration, since they can
    either back a Republican who is completely repugnant, or do as they are
    doing and backing the Democrat.
    
    I have no idea why Holtz is upset about this.
    
    John 

	We have a big ND fan here at the CSC, and here's what he's
	saying about the Holtz deal:

	The Notre Dame players have informally polled themselves and
	have said that if Duke is elected, they do not want to go to
	the Sugar Bowl.  Holtz has come out and said, basically, that
	is tough, it's his team, and they'll go if he says so.

	Whether that's true or not, I don't know.  I'm only repeating
	what I've heard.

    This has shades...no....shadows of last year's MLK Day/Arizona bowls.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    Holtz said that he'll do what the university says, but at the same
    time he was quite clear that he feels politics should not be injected
    into the college sports scene.
    
    I think this is a little bit different than the MLK referendum,
    because it is a vote for public office based on many issues
    rather than a specific issue like recognition of the civil rights
    movement.  As such, I think it's inappropriate for sports 
    organizations to in any way influence such an election.  But, rest
    assured, if Duke is elected things like this are going to happen
    and a curtain will go up around Louisiana, because even if only
    for purely political motivations, you're not going to find many 
    politicians or business leaders wanting to have anything to do 
    with Duke...
    
    glenn
    

     Just to clarify, prospective govenor David Duke does not just have
    "KKK-type leanings", he's a former Grand Wizard and also former head
    of the National Association for the Advancement of White People. He
    also was known to have consider Hitler a great man and to have cele-
    brated Hitler's birthday and considered the Holocaust a hoax. Duke's
    stance now is that those were just youthful indiscretions and now he's
    just a conservative Republican who preaches traditional values.
    
    Holtz is justified in not wanting to run his team like a democracy but
    if the players put up a stink about it, it could make recruiting tough.
    I personally don't see anything wrong with what the players are doing
    either. It was always my impression that Notre Dame's and Holtz' phil-
    osophy was that you were a person and a student first and a member of 
    the football team second. As a person it would be repugnant for me to 
    play in Lousiana with David Duke as govenor and incumbent upon me as a 
    person with media access, however limited, to make that known.
    

    
     I agree...  Hey did anyone see Arsenio (sp) Hall lasted(tm) night ?
    He really put it to David Duke, Calling him a Bigot was one of the
    nicer things he said.  Mr. Hall also did a Phil Donahue impression
    by getting out in his crowd and talking about AIDS and the effect
    of Magic's announcement on the "Average Joe"....  It was to say the
    least interesting....
    
    Big Game

    	I think the players on ND have every right to reject a Sugar
    Bowl bid.  I can't remember the circumstances but didn't a few years
    ago ND go to a bowl game because the players "wanted to"?  Actually
    if the kids really did decide not to go if Dukes is elected then
    ND isn't the "football factory" it's made out to be.  Isn't college
    supposed to teach kids about making decisions for themselves and
    not being led? 
    
    				/Don

 Actually, I'm shocked that Notre Dame is even considering accepting a bid
 to the USF&G Sugar Bowl televised live on ABC.
 
 I thought for sure they'd be nowhere else but at a bowl televised on NBC.
 
 Bob Hunt

> Actually, I'm shocked that Notre Dame is even considering accepting a bid
> to the USF&G Sugar Bowl televised live on ABC.
 
>  I thought for sure they'd be nowhere else but at a bowl televised on NBC.
 
 have to agree plus Florida would murder the bums so Lou will duck...

 mike

                     
>     Actually, I'm shocked that Notre Dame is even considering accepting a bid
>     to the USF&G Sugar Bowl televised live on ABC.

>     I thought for sure they'd be nowhere else but at a bowl televised on NBC.
 
    I'm not surprised.  As I said last week, ND signed a business 
    contract with NBC for their regular season home games and they are 
    fulfilling the terms of that contract.  They're not owned by NBC or 
    obligated by the contract to give them anything more.  From the
    accounts I've read, NBC has made a tidy profit from ND and is 
    perfectly happy with the deal.  Why should NBC expect anything more,
    and why should Notre Dame give it to them? (especially since when 
    they signed the contract NBC knew they wouldn't be able to control 
    ND's bowl decisions under the terms of the bowl alliance.)
    
    For Notre Dame to give up their bowl freedom, they'd have to contract
    their services to a specific network and its bowl telecasts for a sum 
    above and beyond the standard, which no doubt would be against NCAA
    regulations.
    
    glenn
    

    I didn't see Holtz remarks but my opinion is if the athletes vote not
    to go to a bowl game, that's their perogative. whether or not the
    University honors that request is another matter. In 1971 the team
    voted not to accept any bowl bids but the reason was due to the
    players' feelings that they were not good enough to represent the
    University on New years. The coaching staff and University honored
    that request. This is a far more complex issue. This seems on face
    value to be an individual decision. I abhor what Duke stands for
    but the voters f Louisiana have to make that decision. For the
    University to make an official staement by electing not to go
    would seem to me to be inappropriate(as a political statement)
    Now if the players voted on moralistic grounds not to attend, then
    I would honor that request if I was the University administration.
    This is what I believe will happen if the players vote as a team not
    to attend for these reasons. But what do I know about their motives.
    
    On bowl acceptances, ND would be simply foolish to sign any agreement
    with NBC regarding bowls. As a lot of you have pointed out, ND, rightly
    or wrongly, does thing for ND ( but what the hail conference or scool
    doesn't) and they will accept a bowl bid for their benefit no matter
    what network it is on. And ND holdsb no moral obligation to NBC as
    was pointed out. NBC hass done and will do quite nicely business-wise
    from this arrangement with ND (as will ND). Haven't y'all noticed how
    gallingly long NBC's telecasts of ND games has been. Mucho commercials=
    mucho bucks. I don't like it but NBC sure does.
    
    As far as this weekend's regional telecast goes, well, damn ND if you
    want, but this is the exact reason why ND got away from the CFA
    and went to NBC. How do you think Penn St fans who do not live in the
    East feel about not being able to watch this game?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
     re .426
    
    Well said, Mike. It looks like ND might be able to keep everyone
    happy by playing in one of the bowls on NBC and I'm sure that's
    what they'll end up doing.

Notre Dame has no choice in the matter of which network bowl they
play in. That's up to the bowl commitee's to decide. If the offer is 
made to ND to play in a bowl on NBC by said commitee then so be it.
On the Duke thang, I agree with the players. The man is pond scum, and
if the people of Louisianna put this pig in office, it will be the 
biggest blight in the history of american politics. If I were ND and 
decided that playing in the Sugar Bowl was best for the team, I would try
and use it to slight Duke. Maybe a little demenstration before the game
by the players, or a sit in or something denouncing this nazi freak.


Steve

    	Hey just remember this is Louisiana the state that elected Huey
    Long governor, who if he hadn't been assassinated by FDR could've
    been our Hitler.
    
    				/Don

    
    Heard a great Huey Long story on 'BCN news this am. Seeing how La.
    has the highest illiteracy rate in the country, Long would tell the
    voters fronm the more remote parts of the state, and being before 
    the time of the electronic ballot box....
    
    Hey! Ifn you don't want me, just x out my name!
    
    Slick...
    
    
    Steve

    
    I was thinking the very same thing, Slasher.  Assassination, I mean.
    I would not be surprised in the slightest if Duke is elected that
    he mysteriously gets bumped off somewhere down the road.  Seriously.
    
    glenn
    

    Let me be the first to note that Penn State humiliates the Irish as I
    predicted and yet ND gets 3 million for the Sugar, and the far superior
    Lions get 2 million from the Fiesta...
    
    Go figure.....
    
    One consolation for the Irish fans... you get another chance to take on
    the Lions next year... we just might get three in a row!
    
    Rick_from_HAPPY_Valley

    Allright Joe!  Way to take it to the Fading Irish.  The only bad part
    about this one is that I didn't get to see it.  I woulda loved it, too.
    It was fun tuning into Tony Roberts on Mutual late in the game though. 
    They get ready to go to a commercial and I hear that music to my ears:
    Tony Roberts in his classic voice, "And we'll take a break, with the
    score Penn State 35, Notre Dame 7."  Ooooooo, yea!
    
    That's ok if ND goes to the Sugar.  I'll love seeing the Gators take it
    to them.  That'll be a tough decision: do I watch Miami kill Nebraska
    or CU and capture their 4th national title in 9 years or do I watch
    Florida smoke the Fading Irish??  Hmmmm, guess I'll set up 2 TV's.
    
    
    Joe

    ND certainly left their game on the field last Saturday agin Tennessee.
    PSU was in top gear and ND in lowest, thus the blowout. No excuses.
    The Lions simply went througfh the Irish Swiss cheese D for a quick
    and fatal 21-0 lead. Irish had a slim chance at the end of the second
    quarter to make it 21-14 but Mirer smiffed and overthrew a wide-open
    Culver fer a definite TD. Game, set, match. Irish sure look like a
    beaten club. Somethin's amiss with this team ( or I've way overrated
    'em). Holtz steel had a little humor ( " I hate to disappoint so many
    people but I will be returning to Notre Dame )  Best straighten out
    the team's problems before Hawaii never mind Florida.
    
    Glenn gits to do the trip report seein' as his team won.
    
    MikeL
    Whose haid is a little better
    

    Can't beleive the Bums are still going to the Sugar !!
    
    Big Game

Second straight year the Sugar is getting themselves a team with 3 losses 
in the middle of a late-season slide.   Lasted year it was my beloved 
Cavaliers and now the Fading Irish ...

You would think that the Sugar folks would have learned by now but I guess 
they were more caught up in electing corruption over racism.

Bob Hunt 

    I disagreed with the premise all along that ND should receive the
    Sugar Bowl bid no matter how they fared against PSU. In their
    present frame of mind, they would offer little competition against
    Florida. However a team's mental outlook cain change. This ND team is
     young and Penn St simply kicked them when they were down.
    Obviously PSU was the better team but not, IMHO, by that much. Holtz
    is going to have to reach into his motivational bag of tricks for
    the rest of the year. He certainly didn't do it fer this week. The
    only ND player who showed any spunk was LB Demetrius Dubose. The
    rest looked like they mailed it in at half. All they had to do for
    motivation was look back one week. I'm not saying it would have made
    a difference ( probably not) but hey, where was the old college try.
    
    IMO PSU should have gotten the Sugar bid with ND elsewhere, if
    anywhere. In fact the way ND is playing, I kinda wish they would have
    declined an invite. But they're a huge draw and the players and
    coaches must have wanted to go for it. Will be interesting to read
    the grumblings from the Shrine this week. Not all is well in Rockne-
    ville.
    
    MikeL
     
    
    
    with the loser gittin' pot luck. 

Well, first off I've just got to say that there are very few finer things 
in life than a college football weekend set on the campus of a major 
football factory!  Forget about Wofford: you guys want to get together for
the fullblown steamrollin' no-holds-barred bender do it on a crisp autumn
weekend at someplace like South Bend, IN, Columbus, OH, Ann Arbor, MI, or
State College, PA.  The latter is where fellow noters and ND grads Mike
Leary and Dave McNeil, Dave's friend Dan <unpronouncable Polish surname>
from Cleveland (transplanted from Erie, PA, though-- PSU, Steelers, and
Pirates fan through-and-through) and myself landed for a weekend of fun
and football culminating in a battle for temporary bragging rights in the
Nittany Lions-Fightin' Irish football series. 

The game was just fine from a Penn State perspective but anti-climactic 
after the first half.  Even though State marched down the field the first 
three times they had the ball to take an imposing 21-0 lead, the outcome
was still partially in doubt until just before the end of the first half. 
Penn State held when the Irish turned the ball over on downs after driving
inside the 10, trailing at that point 21-7.  After that, the game became
an opportunity for the PSU seniors to say goodbye in their last home game, 
with seniors Tony Sacca and O.J. McDuffie (junior eligible, return 
undecided) in particular playing excellent final home games.  Richie
Anderson, the junior tailback (sophomore eligible, I think) I raved about
after the Georgia Tech opener but who didn't get a chance to start until a
couple of weeks ago, may have finally emerged as the next candidate in
PSU's tailback tradition, with 150+ yards and two TDs rushing on the day. 
Watch out for this guy the next couple years, because the Penn State
offense will likely revert back to the ground game upon Sacca's exit. 

Beaver Stadium itself was rocking.  It's hard to envision a place of that 
size (95,000+ capacity) until you're in it.  Over a hundred rows of 
bleachers on each side of field, with the same in the end zones with the
extension of an upper deck that's so high it feels like you're watching
the game from an airplane (we switched at the half to split time between
seeing the intensity of the game from the closer, lower deck, and the
formations and play progress from the upper).  That's a lot of humanity, 
without an empty seat in sight, and when the students start the wave or 
the foot-stomping, it's impressive.

As for ND, Mike pretty much said it all.  Their defense didn't show
early, and that took a lot of pressure off Penn State's front in having
to defense ND's stud fullbacks and placed it squarely on the shoulders of
Mr. Mirer, who simply didn't respond.  After an 0-4-1 start against the
Irish over the years, Penn State has now gone 8-3 since the yearly series
was started in 1981 to hold a slim 8-7-1 career advantage over Notre Dame,
with the last regular season game for a long time set for next year in
South Bend... 

Notre Dame probably ranks second only to Penn State for the loyalties of 
the residents of Pennsylvania to a college football team, so there were
thousands of Irish fans at the game in addition to the alums and students 
traveling in from ND's extensive national network.  The fans in the ND
section where we were sitting were loyal and vocal long after the ghost
had been given up, I've got to admit, but there were no problems 
whatsoever in rooting for the home team from within the sea of blue and 
gold.  With all the split groups there and the respect that exists between
the schools, even the tailgate atmosphere was strictly one of good spirit
and camaraderie.  Matter of fact, another group of ND subway alumni from
Bahston and New Hampshuh parked and partied right next to us, totally in
the spirit of brotherhood. ;-)  No fighting or badmouthing at all, except
for maybe one foulmouthed Skoal-spitting blowhard Pittsburghese (can't
miss the accent) we ran into who kept telling us "younz bleepin' Penn
State folks 'rbleepin' in fer a big bleepin' suhpraz today..."  Hey pal,
how come we didn't see you after the game?  ;-) 

Actually, the only real acts of derision we saw at the game were directed
at some self-important but weak-willed Penn State campus cops who 
sauntered into our parking area (actually just a hill in the valley with
some nice views of the overlooking Nittanies, after the skies cleared up 
and left a beautiful afternoon) threatening to tow the hand-painted, 
"Happy Acres Overland Express" 60's-relic of an alumni bus parked in
front of us.  Apparently these old-timers (not hippies, a little further 
back, even) had been allowed to pay for five regular spots to avoid the
overcrowding in the RV lot and had done so all year, but these cops
decided that it wasn't going to fly after they'd already set up camp. 
After the good folks told the cops to bleep off and to go ahead and bring
on the tow truck, it finally showed up about an hour later, attracting
literally a couple hundred people, most of them polluted by this time,
lining the street and jeering these unarmed yokels with shouts of "give
'em what for, Barney Fife!" and the like.  There were even a couple of
scary, toofless, *authentic* Appalachian Deliverance Dudes (ADD's) near us
"all the way in from Wes' Virginny and get to see a tow!" (hey, this is
central Pennsylvania, they're ain't that much else going on!). Finally, as
the tension was building to a fever pitch, with the illegal squatters and
a couple onlookers just lambasting these rent-a-cops tooth-and-nail with
the giant tow tractor willingly purring its engine in the background, who
would show up but none other than Joe Paterno!  Well, okay, not the real
Paterno, but a guy in a mask dressed to the hilt complete with highwaters
and white socks, white-and-blue fifties-style high school sweater,
flashing peace signs and gladhanding all around.  After JoePa posed for a
couple dozen publicity photos and did a little friendly recruiting, the
crew from the Happy Acres Insane Asylum relented and rolled along.  If a
cheap but hilarious imitation could break up this mob scene, could the
real JoePa negotiate world peace? 

And last but not least, of course, there was the Friday night boastin' and
Saturday night excuse-makin' bar scenes on campus.  In a great concept
(that Hawk would no doubt much appreciate), at the famous Rathskeller they
sell cases of Rolling Rock pony bottles trucked straight in from Latrobe,
over the bar.  Result: soaked floor and broken glass all over the place
('ceptin the bottles left in the urinal troughs for target practice), but
at least you don't have to move much to get a beer!  This place is the
utmost in drinkin' and decadence.  The next night the campus was even more
crowded, so we ended up in a nicer, but calmer, bar.  The action was a
little more subdued, but we met a few more Irish fans from Raleigh of all
places, who bought a couple of rounds of JD to take off a little bit of
the sting from the walk over in the crisp evening (okay, so there wasn't
much of a sting after 2-3 cases of beer on the day between us, but that
removed any that was left), and there were toasts on the game and the
weekend from fans of both sides.  There was a wee minor incident on the
way off campus when our Cleveland friend got doused with a beer from a
balcony and a small house party had to be raided by Dave and me, but I can
happily report that no arrests ensued and we safely departed the Happy
Valley after a most raucous but enjoyable weekend! 

I don't know about the other guys, but I'm thinking of making one a these 
pilgrimages to the promised land a_annual event...

glenn

    Personally - I've never undestood why they don't wait til after the
    season is over to decide on the bids.  The season is over before
    December rolls around - so why not wait?   Stoopid handing out bids
    early.
    
    I'd rather see PSU in the Sugar than the Irish..
    
    JD

>except for maybe one foulmouthed Skoal-spitting blowhard Pittsburghese (can't
>miss the accent)
    
    Probably from Wheeling or Stuebenville.
    
    	--dan'l
    

    
    >>I disagreed with the premise all along that ND should receive the
    >>Sugar Bowl bid no matter how they fared against PSU. In their
    
    I gotta "Gene Collier" column on the bowl process that if'n I get the
    chance, I'll enter in the Collier note tonite.
    
    JaKe
    

    Good job Glenn!
    
    I fergot about the target practice at the 'Skellar ( as is pronounced
    in ADD-ville, and not the Rat).
    I'm steel sore from air hockey and Dave steel wants to know why we call
    him "Stanley". 8^)
    Wail,I'm gonna go into business as we discussed. The MikeL ND jinx is
    alive and well at 0-4 (that's 4-0 to you antis). I'm gonna advertize in
    all ND opponent football mags. Send me to YOUR football game against
    ND, all expenses paid by you, and I guarantee a victory for (insert
    your school name) against the Irish. Foolproof guarantee. I've got
    me record to back me up. This way I'll get to see all ND games, however
    Lou will probably send a hit man after me whence he finds out I'm in
    the area.
    
    MikeL
    PS.  Those two West Virginny boys musta been from designed inbred
         roots. And ah do mean roots. They'd knock a buzzard off a
         shitwagon.
     

    
>>the spirit of brotherhood. ;-)  No fighting or badmouthing at all, except
>>for maybe one foulmouthed Skoal-spitting blowhard Pittsburghese (can't
>>miss the accent) we ran into who kept telling us "younz bleepin' Penn
>>State folks 'rbleepin' in fer a big bleepin' suhpraz today..."  Hey pal,
>>how come we didn't see you after the game?  ;-) 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
    
    I had a wedding to go to!!!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
>    Personally - I've never undestood why they don't wait til after the
>    season is over to decide on the bids.  The season is over before
>    December rolls around - so why not wait?   Stoopid handing out bids
>    early.
     
    One reason is that in this case, unlike with Virginia, the selection
    is a guaranteed money-maker.  It doesn't matter if the ND faithful
    tune in completely ticked off at their team and consider them
    undeserving-- they'll still tune in, and most likely in greater
    numbers than would for a 10-2 Penn State, regardless that ND's lost
    three times.
    
    In Sunday's Harrisburg, PA paper, a Sugar Bowl official's quoted
    response to the question of whether the bowl felt burned by their
    illegal, premature selection for a second year in a row was "You
    SOB!"  I guess these guys are getting testy in addition to stupid...
    
    glenn
    
    

    >Foolproof guarantee.  I've got me record to back me up.
    
    Bull.  As I remember you were there to witness ND's beating of the
    poor Hoosiers.  Some foolproof-guaranteed-perfect-record, that.
    
    MrT

    I watched it from me home TV, you twit 8^) Ah simply threw down the
    guantlet on a friendly wager knowin' I'd not be present. Do ya think
    I woulda given points if I was attending? No way. I'd be lookin fer
    points knowin' my record
    0-2 lasted year (Penn St and Colorado)
    0-2 this year   (Tennessee and Penn St)
    
    However, I'd be glad to attend any future ND-IU football games (note
    Ah said football). I could use the sure win.
    
      
    MikeL
    Just call me Joe Bfplsk
    
    

Glen:

Great write up on the game...I'm up for making it an annual thing, but only
on one condition...we make plans early and stay just a wee bit closer to 
campus! :-)  Stanley don't like that drivin' thing!!

You left out the best part of the Skeller story though....the part where there
was about an hour wait to get in but you cut in line way in the front and
we only waited two minutes.  Just a classic move!!
  
Dave

PS..MikeL...How many Rest Stops are there between PSU and Boston???????

    Dave,
    Enuf stops to breathe some fresh air wif you two lettin off steam
    ( ya know which steam I'm talkin 'bout) 8^). 
    Remember the PSU boys in line behind us at the 'Skellar? And the
    condition they set fer allowin' female cut-ins? Tsk Tsk, such 
    language from farm-bred Pa. boys!
    
    MikeL
    

    
>                      -< Glen don't do bar lines!! >-
 
    Ya gotsta understand somethin' about campus bar lines.  When you 
    cut at the front you don't get complaints 'cause the guys behind 
    you just cut the ones behind them.  These are college kids, after 
    all.  The poor saps at the back, who see the line getting longer 
    but can't figger it out, are the ones who spent all that money 
    (well, maybe not that much, it's a state school) but don't seem to 
    be getting much of a edukayshun...
    
    glenn
    

    Hey MikeL, you ever go to The Library (speaking a bars)?  I used
    to.  Nice little place with the perfect alibi (Father, I was at 
    the library until 1AM last night, swear on my Catholic heart").
    
    re: Lou
    
    The Minnesota newspapers alternately have Lou taking over the reins
    for the Vikings and the Golden Goofers.  The Goofers dream is
    unattainable.  Outside shot for the Vikes, though.
    
    If I were Lou I'd stay put.  Best job in the game and he's done great
    at it.
    
    MrT

    Absetively T.
     The real Library (twas Frankie's me freshman year-'71-72) right down
    on Notre Dame Ave (cain see the Dome 'bout 3/4 mile down the road. Of
    course, have to cover one eye in order to see one Dome at 2 AM !)
    Great place.  The building is gone now ,though, just a vacant lot.
    However, there is a sign there that states the lot is the future site
    of the new Library. Hope they mean imbibin' kind, not studyin'!
    On me trip out there a coupla weeks' ago, I did a little reconoitering
    to see how many of my old haunts was still around. As I mentioned,
    the Library is gone, and two old bastions of ND imbibin' jest around
    the corner, Nickie's and Corby's, are alas, no more. In fact, ala
    Library, where Nickie's was is nothing but a vacant lot. And Corby's
    (ma all-time fav) is nothing but a bakery now. Sniff, sniff.
    At least the Senior Bar concept is alive (now a single story concrete
    monstrosity called the Senior Club). They tore down me old two-story
    rickety house used to be the Senior Bar (Air hockey ruled!) and
    replaced it with the ugly new Senior Club. Dispiritin ta say the
    least.  Hey T. didya ever git to any of these other fine ND 
    establishments on your visits to Michiana? 
    
    MikeL
    BTW, rumor has it that Holtz will stay, shitcan D coordinator Darnell,
    and hire the ex-Gopher coach. Hoid the same in TC?
    
    
    

    Yeah, I remember the discos, megabars, and talc bars up on 31 on
    the Niles side.  Nickie's and Corby's... ahhh, the memories.
    
    MrT

    Well I missed this weekend's defensive struggle from beeyootiful
    Hawaii.  Anyone want to venture an analysis ( be a leetle fair!!)
    
    I happened to be up in the rural tranquilized hills of New Hampsha
    this weekend and didn't want to venture out to "Bill and my son Bill's
    Bar" to try to catch the game on ESPN at 10:30. 'Sides the dump
    probably closed at 11 anyways. I did happen to catch the 4th quarter
    on a rickety old radio ( signal fadin' in and out ) and caught what
    I thought was going to be another Irish choke in the 4th quarter.
    I guess  ND was up by 22 at the start of the fourth ( 42-20) and
    barely held on. Anyone see this tilt?
    
    Let's see in the last three Irish games, they've given up 35,35, and
    42 points. Terrible. The young defense has simply lost its confidence
    and is gittin' blown off the ball. It's getting embarrasing. God knows
    how they'll be able to give Florida a game. Well , Lou has a few weeks
    to try and piece it back together. He ought to start by firing
    defensive coordinator Darnell and shipping him back to Gainesville whar
    he come from. Ever since Barry Alvarez left to coach at Wisconsin,
    the defense has gotten more porous and generous every year (89-91).
    
    Anyone know a defensive coach looking for a job? Tell him/her to send
    the resume to Lou. All applicants welcome.
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Maybe Lou oughta take a look at John Gutekuntz, the guy who was
    hired to replace him at Minnesota, who was just canned at the U.
    Cain't coach offense a lick, but when he stepped in and took over
    from his D-coordinator the Golden Goofers' defense always seemd to
    step up.
    
    Or maybe hire Alvarez back.
    
    MrT

    T,
    Hadn't heard about alvarez looking but I did hear some rumors that
    Holtz be be lookin fer Gutekuntz for D coordinator. As long as Darnell
    takes the Boxcar Willie RR back to Gainesville where he cain chew 
    terbacky and extoll the virtues of small,quick Southern-style
    defense as his product on the field has no f@ck*n clue.
    
    Let's hope Holtz will hire Gutekuntz at ND and not the Vikes.
    
    MikeL
    

    Well enough about MrT's blabbin 'bout the poor Hoosiers gittin'
    bounced around by the burly Irish BBall frontcourt. Poppycock as we
    all know. T, ya shoulda bellied up to the bar and gave me the 15
    points. Harummph!
    
    "Poor" IU (insert major sarcasm) beat up on "poor" ND ( truthful)
    lasted night deep down in AhU-ville, 78-46. Ouch.
    Cheaney scored 19 points as the Hoosiers went on a quick 13-2 run
    in da first half to ice this one early.
    
    Irish limpin back to South Bend to take on Louisville on Thursday
    night. Sigh. Loooong season.
    
    MikeL
     

    SEVENTY-EIGHT TO FORTY-SIX!?!?!?!  Way to pound 'em, Hoosiers!  And to
    top it off, this big blowout loss by ND comes on the heels of their
    loss to might Butler.  
    
    
    Joe

    Joe,
    And to think, I've got tickets to see ND take on BC at the Heights
    on 12/11 (next Wed.)  Anyone in  here attending this (mis)match?
    
    MikeL
    
    

>                           -< They lost to Butler?? >-
    
    Yea, you missed that one?  It was at South Bend, too.  ND is 0-2 on the
    season now.  
    
    Isn't BC supposed to finish near the bottom of the BE this season?  Of
    course, BC was bad last year and still beat ND last year.
    
    
    Joe
    

    November and December.
    These are the times that try men's souls. Someone said that
    and the Irish football and BBall teams are living it. Brighter
    days ahead though. Football sooner than BBall.
    
    Last I looked the ND hockey team was warming up for next year's entry
    into the CCHA. Don't believe they've won many. I know they beat
    once-mighty Merrimack in OT, before heading to UMaine where I believe
    they were smeared. During the ill-fated Tennessee weekend, I know the
    hockey team was playing New Hampshire at South Bend. And UNH lived
    up to their national ranking by pasting the Irish in two straight
    blowouts. Believe they lost both games by a total of 14-3. Ouch!
    Only one direction to go > Up!
    
    Must be bright light around somewhere. Ah,yes. The women's BBall team
    is supposed to be rated in the Top 25 this year. Supposed to have
    some freshman hotshot of a guard from Pa. named Marchinowski.
    Go Irishettes!
    
    MikeL
    

	The Irish had a nationally ranked baseball team last year,
	loaded with freshmen and sophomores.  Likely NCAA berth for
	them in the spring.

    That's correct Rolly. They were denied a NCAA bid to the baseball
    tourney even though they had a better record than 5 or 6 of the
    teams. Of course they played in a weaker conference than some of
    these teams (MCAA conf I believe, came in 2nd to Evansville in
    regular season, knocked them off in conference playoffs). No sour
    grapes from here, tho the baseball staff were quite PO'd last year.
    Muttered something about NBC contract backlash. 
    Yer right though, they return a majority of their roster and take
    the early spring route through the Floridas fer comp.
    
    MikeL
    

    Hell of a football game on ESPN last Sat. Hawaii and ND had a classic
    offensive free-for-all, with the Irish surviving 48-42. Hawaii had two
    of the best-executed onside kicks I've seen in my life. If they had
    recovered the first one, they might have won. Hawaii has a backup QB
    that is fantastic - ND couldn't handle him at all. But ND had the big
    boys, up front,a nd in the backfield, and they just overpowered Hawaii.
    
    I tell ya though, Florida is going to destroy them if that's the best
    they can do on defense. The last two weeks, the Irish has given up
    something like 77 points. And I don't consider Penn State to have that
    explosive an offense (Tony Sacca has got to be the most overrated QB in
    the nation this side of Rick Mirer), and Hawaii is good, but to give
    yardage the way ND did can't bode well against a balanced strong
    offense like the Gators.
    
    Anyhow, it's music to my ears - ND losing gives me as much joy as a
    Celtics loss ....
    
    Dr Midnight

    Thanks Doc fer the analysis.
    Bt as they say at Goodyear, "Stick it up yer right rear!" 8^)
    
    I heard from others that Holtz decided to play as lot of reserves on
    D for this game because he was dissatisfied with the play of the
    starter. Don't know for sure as I didn't see it. You're right, ND's
    D has been in a tailspin since the 2nd half of the Tennessee game.
    I shudder to think what Florida can (note I said cain) do to them.
    Anyone know the projected status of Florida QB Matthews for this game?
    Lou will have the Irish prepared and roarin', tho. Think the 6 points
    might be apropos?
    
    Gotta agree with you partially about Mirer; he is overrated. However
    when he's on, he's unstoppable, but when he's off, PU!
    Don't know about Sacca. In the past,maybe (and agin Pitt, he was off).
    But against ND, he was awesome. When he comes to play, there ain't
    many better. Wish ND had him (almost did too, chose PSU over ND at last
    minute)
    
    Doc,
    Since you are a Rice grad. Have you heard anything new on former ND
    freshman Mike Miller? I know since he left ND he enrolled at Houston.
    Now he is taking classes there and has not even shown an interest
    in playing on any of their sports teams. I say this because it has
    been reported in South Bend that both he and his parents have called
    ND about the possibility of re-enrolling at ND and playing football.
    If Miller completes his semester courses at Houston and does not engage
    in any school sponsored sports activities, he could be back and
    eligible to play at ND next year (fall of 92). If he does not fulfill
    either of the above-two criteria (completing semester and not playing
    sports), he would not be eligible to play for ND (could still be a
    student) until the fall of '93. I have heard that he wants to re-enroll
    badly at ND.  Any news?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    
    
    

    No news from here MIke. Regretfully, the East Coast bias is so thick,
    that it is impossible to find out what the SWC and SWAC are doing. I
    miss not hearing about Rice, UH, TSU,  and black college sports. 
    
    I will be going down to Houston in three weeks though, and I'll see
    what I can find out.
    
    Doc

    Louisville 84, ND 81
    At least this one's a little closer. 0-3
    Next: at Valparaiso
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
    Holtz has signed a 5-year contract extension.  :^(  Damm!!
    
    On a more positive note, not a single Irish player was named to the AP
    All-America team.  None.  Zilch.  Zippo.
    
>    Louisville 84, ND 81
>    At least this one's a little closer. 0-3
    
    ESPN reported that the ND basketball team is 0-3 for the first time
    EVER.   
    
    1....2....3.....All together now....
    
    
     AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
    
    
    :^)
    
    Joe 

    Only a couple of Irish players merited consideration for A-A,
    all on offense; TE Derek Brown, C Gene McGuire, G Mirko Jurkovic.
    The only one who had a deceny shot IMO was McGuire. The fact that
    none made it doesn't surprise me. None probably deserved the honor.
    Who really cares anyhoo. I wonder how many Irish "D" players were
    named to All-Opponents Team by their adversaries. Probably more in
    "Those you would love to play against every week"
    
    Great news fer Irish fans 'bout Holtz. Helps recruitin' big time.
    Perfect timing, jest after season and before bowlin' season. And
    you knew that we knew that Holtz knew the University knew that the
    timing of this was critical. Yippeee, recruits'll feel more 
    confident in the haid coaching status. Whar are them intent sheets!
    Now all Holtz needs to do is push Darnell out the door gently in the
    direction of Tulane, who is lookin' fer a haid coach. Don't let that
    door hit him in the butt on the way out.  Resurrection in '92!
    
    About the BBall team, already written off this year as far as 
    success in "W". MacLeod needs to put in his system, get comfortable
    in his environ., teach and instill confidence in the young'uns. The
    seniors will help with potential recruits( goodwill ambassadors).Look
    for MacLeod to try and recruit big time in next coupla years. He'll
    turn the program around in time. Patience allowed here guys, remember,
    this ain't football whar patience is a dirty word!
    
    Women's BBall team will be comp. Startin' off slow (1-2), with two
    early season tough losses to #3 Penn St. and #7 Stanford. Look fer
    this team to make the tourney, IMO.
    
    MikeL
      

    Tulane has already hired Buddy Teevens away from Dartmouth to be their
    head coach.  Darnell will have to go elsewhere.
    
    John

    Dang, ya burst me bubble,Ninj.
    Mebbe Texas?? (Hope ,Hope)
    
    MikeL
    

>    Only a couple of Irish players merited consideration for A-A,
>    all on offense; TE Derek Brown, C Gene McGuire, G Mirko Jurkovic.
    
    Jurkovic made 2nd team All-America.  I was pretty surprised that Brown
    not only wasn't the 1st team TE but wasn't on any of AP's top 3 teams.
    
    
    Joe  

    Brown is a tremendous blocker. His hands are good, but not great, IMO.
    In ND's offense, the passing schemes and routes are not complex. It is
    a running offense, and Brown's top assets are run blocking. In several
    games I watched, he seemed open but Mirer never got him the ball that
    much. Quite often,Mirer's primary receivers were the SE (Tony Smith,
    Lake Dawson) and occasionally the TE as well as the HB (either Brooks
    or Culver). I don't think Mirer (or it could be ND's offensive scheme)
    paid enough attention to the secondary receiver( i.e. Brown). Mirer 
    often" one-looks" it to his primary. Thus his 11 INT's. 
     
    In the pre-season, much was written about Holtz changing his emphasis
    slightly to get the ball more to Derek Brown. Never really happened.
    With the emerging success of ND's running game (Bettis, and Mirer
    optioning with Brooks and Culver on the traps, slants,misdirections)
    Holtz stuck to a powerful running game utilizing Brown's main asset;
    run blocking. Thus the passing scheme remained simplistic in its
    execution. Look to the SE (and they had success when stopped on the
    ground, I.E. Michigan for a while). 
    
    Brown also dropped a few passes this year and I assume that just
    solidified Holtz' reasoning to utilize his run blocking primarily
    and decoying while passing. Brown's backup, Irv Smith, has much better
    hands than Brown, caught a few passes this year, but reportedly is not
    as good a run blocker as Brown is. Well, Smith returns, and Brown
    doesn't, so we'll see.
    
    IMO, Brown can become a dominant TE in the pros if given the time
    to develop his pass-catching skills. He runs good routes, can block,
    so I assume he'll go in the top three rounds. He definitely has the
    size and speed to make it. 
    
    MikeL
     

    Finally!
    
    ND 71  Valparaiso 66
    1-3.
    
    Onto BC 12/11
    
    MikeL
    
    

    Simply putrid.
    
    Boston College 78
    Notre Dame     54
    1-4
    
    Some of you probably caught a glimpse of this mess on ESPN. This ND
    team simply can't even execute fundamentals. MacLeod's got a long road
    to hoe. Will get worse next year when the four seniors graduate and IMO
    nothing to speak of on the bench. Guy behind us in the stands yells out
    to MacLeod " Hey, MacLeod, great team there. You'll be coaching high
    school in a couple of years." Looks like he's already there. Whew.
    
    Shudder, on to Kaintuck on 1/2/92.  Wildcat, throw yer walk-ons in
    fer this one.
    
    MikeL
    

    Agreed MikeL.  It simply boggles my mind at how far Notre Dame
    basketball has fallen.  (Not that it saddens me, mind you.)  Consider
    that the "Fighting" Irish were playing the team picked by many to
    finish dead last in the Big East and were completely blown out of the
    game by halftime.  Their offensive output was almost non-existent.
    
    Not only have they got Kaintuck to look forward to, but UNC plays 'em
    on January 11th.  We beat 'em by close to 40 last year, and they look
    an awful lot worse this year.  Oooo ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Please Chris, I already gots enough headaches thinkin' 'bout Kaintuck.
    Yep, then we'll (wince) travel to UNC (mercy-killing), Duke ( jes
    plain murder), UVA (torture) UCLA ( drawn and quartered ), DePaul 
    ( guillotined), Syracuse ( burned at stake), St John's ( boiled in oil)
    And as Yul would say, Etcetera, Etcetera, Etcetera.
    
    But before all this, I get to watch a potential massacre from N'Awlins.
    
    Poor Irish
    
    MikeL
    
    

 Actually Chris, Miami is the pick for the Big East Cellar. BC might also
 finish ahead of PC, Pitt and Nova. Imagine BC without the thursday nite game 
 at the Big East Tourney? Trully mindboggling. Why I thought it was tradition..

 mike

    >Syracuse ( burned at stake )
    
    Or it could be rape, MikeL.  After all, they have a couple a good
    ol' fashioned rapists on this latest classy BayWhine squad.
    
    MrT
    

    Ahem, well T, as you probably remember from your salad days at IU jes
    down the road from us, we at ND has to tread mighty softly whence it
    comes to,er, multiple copulations with feminine gender by studly
    athaletes. We cain't self-righteously point the accusatory finger
    at SorryEcxuse (and they is) with a semi-shady past.
    Now let me paint a broad (no pun Puleeze) brush. Seems in the late
    summer of 1974,jest nearing the end of summer foosball practice at
    South Bend, a certain six of ND's football players (including starters
    Al Hunter, Willie Fry, Ross Browner ,and ah believe Luther Bradley )
    were originally accused by a local South Bend woman of, ah, er, gang
    rape. Seems the investigation by the SBPD came to the conclusion that
    the woman had consented to, er, group sex ( i.e. gang-bang) with all
    six athaletes and was false in her accusation of rape (she admitted
    such one year later). The University corroborated the SBPD and expelled
    all six from school for one year (74-75). All six were re-admitted to
    ND in August of '75 and resumed their scholastic and football
    endeavors with subsequent graduation for all, and NFL careers fer some.
    So as you see, I cain not hoist SU by my own petard, so to speak.
    However, ND did reaact and take action, has SU (if true)?
    
    Just an aside, to show how we all have progressed as far as
    sensitivity; at that time (early 70's) the woman's story and plight
    was looked upon with jaundiced eyes. Seems the majority of unofficial
    chauvinistic opinion was that she was lookin' fer it, and what a manly
    and natural thing the athaletes done did under the circumstances.
    Purty sad. In fact the joke of the day went lika this. "" Seems there
    is a rumor 'round campus that the sexual six are going to be reinstated
    to both the University and the football team."" When met with the
    expected quizzical (sp) look, " Yeah but ND is going to start off each
    game with a fifteen yard penalty"" ....... "" for piling on"
    Glad to see some attitudes are changing. 
    
    MikeL
    

    Well maybe there is a Santa Claus.
    
    Talked to my old roomie from Chicago lasted night and he told me
    one of the Chicago papers has published a small story concerning Irish
    defensive coordinator Gary Darnell. The report states that Darnell
    has agreed in principal to accept a position (defensive coordinator
    ah believe) for newly appointed head coach John Mackovic at Texass.
    If that's true, Hallelulah!! Praise the Lord and pass the Ripple!
    Reports from both South Bend and Chicago state that Holtz has taken
    the defensive reins during pre-Sugar Bowl practices with Darnell
    nowhere in site ( presumably interviewing, I know he was being
    considered for the haid coaching job at Northwestern). Pinch me,
    I must be dreaming, it's too good to be true. Can anyone confirm?
    
    If so, alright Lou, get your ass after a REAL defensive coordinator
    like Barry Alvarez of Wisconsin or the Gesundheit guy from Minnesota. 
    
    
    MikeL
      

    Mike, it's true, it was in the paper yesterday.  Darnell is going to
    Texas.  It's not likely they'll get Alvarez since all indications are
    that he's happy as head coach at Wisconsin and Wisconsin is happy with
    him.  Gutekunst is far more likely since he's out at Minnesota.
    
    John

    Ninj,
    Thank you SIR!. Coupla beers on me on nexted get together fer yo
    confirmation. Smilin' a leetle wider this AM
    
    MikeL
    

>>        <<< Note 37.484 by FSOA::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 297-2623" >>>

>>    Mike, it's true, it was in the paper yesterday.  Darnell is going to
>>    Texas.  It's not likely they'll get Alvarez since all indications are

That's sort of surprising.  As I recall, tu had one of the top rated
defenses in the country.  Weren't they the 4th or 5th rated defense?
Guess it's all just part of house cleaning.

Jerry

Yea, Mikey, but I hear the  Irish ae bringing in Joe Walton as Offensive 
Coordinator!

    Nah, Bobby
    Booger flickin' not allowed on campus or in the stadium.
    
    MikeL
    

Mike --

He doesn't flick them.

He either pastes them on the bottom of something, or eats them...


HTH,
'Saw

    'Saw,
    That's even worse. That's a punishable offense at ND. He'd have to
    chaperone a ND-St. Mary's freshman orientation dance. Pure torture.
    
    MikeL
    

Hey MikeyL

Do I hear the Irish Fight Song and a wild party coming from your office 
downstairs?

=Bob=

       Much as I don't care much for ND, that was a real gutsy comeback by
    them last night. Highlight of the Bowlathon was Lou giving out high
    fives and jumping around ala coach Mac. What was the final score BTW?
                                     Denny

    
    I was rooting for Notre Dame, but I didn't even feel comfortable with
    the lead until that last interception.  I'm only being halfway
    facetious in saying that someone should have instructed Jerome Bettis
    to fall down after picking up the first down on that last great
    TD run...
    
    glenn
    

    The final score was 39-28.  The thing I thought was funny about that
    game was Holtz using a cheap motivational trick (the green on the
    jerseys and socks) that I thought I'd once heard him swear he'd never
    use. 
    
    Congrats Mike and all other ND alumni in here.  Hope it makes up a
    little bit for the end of season blastings by Penn State and Tennessee.
    
    John
    
    PS - one of the candidates being rumored as a contender to take over at
    Holy Cross is Notre Dame QB coach Peter Vaas, HC class of 1974 and
    former HC QB, who led the Cross to consecutive wins over my alma mater
    in 1972 and 1973.

    John,
    Paper this AM quoted Vaas as being interested in the HC job.
    And thanks. I was fully expecting a double figure loss. Florida
    seemed on their way in the first quarter, but a few costly mistakes 
    by the Gators (dropped passes) helped. After halftime, it was almost
    all Irish. The vaunted Gator d was run over by the Irish offensive
    line. After Florida scored on that pass ( what the hell was that DB
    thinking) to make it 32-28, I thought, sheeeit, another Hawaii.
    
    Holtz did a dang good job with the defense, even though it needs
    a lot of work. He and the defense seemed a lot more into it now that
    Darnell is off to Texas. Be interesting to see who Holtz hires for
    his defensive coordinator. As far as next year, offensive line loses
    two and Derek Brown and Tony Smith are gone, but the replacements are
    more than adequate to fill in. Tony Brooks and Culver are gone but
    Bettis is back and Willie Clark will start at TB, so all should be ok.
    BIG question mark is Mirer. If he's gone  it will really hurt. His
    comments post-game made me feel not too comfortable. He stated that
    the win felt like a national champeenship type of win so he's probably
    settin' himself up mentally for departure. O well, I'll savor the
    unexpected win and I'll end with this:
    
    WHO THE HELL SAID WE DIDN'T BELONG IN A BOWL GAME!!!
    PFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTT.
    
    
    WHAT DO FLORIDA AND SALT HAVE IN COMMON??
    
    
    
    NEITHER BELONG IN A SUGAR BOWL!
    
    
    
     
    

    John, I don't understand why you consider it a "cheap motivational
    trick".  Please explain.
    
    Lee

    I wonder if Lou actually went back to that Jambalaya restaurant 
    and extracted face ont hat uppity waiter who said, "what's the 
    difference between Notre Dame and Cheerios?  The Cheerios belong
    in a bowl!"
    
    Too much is made of Lou's motivational abilities.  What about his
    firepower as a grid-technician?  It was painfully obvious midway
    through the first half that his DLs would never rush Matthews, so
    he went with the two main rush and flooded the zones and it worked
    like a charm.  
    
    Once again, Holtz's game coaching stood out.  No doubt who won
    the halftime in *that* game!
    
    Congrat's Irish.
    
    MrT

    Lee, I should have put cheap motivational trick in quotes attributing
    those words to Holtz, because I thought I heard him say once that he
    considered it a "cheap motivational trick."  Sorry for the grammatical
    faux pas.  I of all people should know better.  (At least I didn't
    misuse an apostrophe to make a plural).
    
    The 'Police

    The 'Police is short for The Apostrophe Police.  Now I suppose I could
    call it The ' Police or The 'Police.  Whichever.
    
    The ' Police

     <<< Note 37.502 by IMBACQ::SZABO "Wish it was a 6 paycheck month." >>>

    >Just bustin' ya John.  But you already knew that, I'm sure...
     		    |						 |
    		    |						 |
    		    |						 |
    1. Need a comma-+						 |
    								 |
    2. Need 4 periods -------------------------------------------+
    
    HTH,
    
    Mark.
    

    >	The 'Police is short for The Apostrophe Police.  Now I suppose I could
    >	call it The ' Police or The 'Police.  Whichever.
    
    call it the cop's, its easier.
    
    
    py

    Holtz certainly made the major adjustments at halftime. I've never seen
    him more happily animated on the sideline. And Spurrier sounded
    like a wounded Wolverine fan ( shoulda, woulda, coulda ), with his
    "We could have scored 50 points if we... Blab, blab, blab. Stick it
    Steve, lick your wounds, go back to Gainesville and beseech your AD
    never to schedule smash-mouth Northern/Eastern football teams ( ND and
    Syracuse). Yeah and the next coming of Randy White, Brad Culpepper
    hasta be sleping on his stomach because of a sore butt. Nice whupping
    by Irish offensive line.
    
    
    MikeL
    
    Oh, back to reality
    
    Kentucky  91   Notre Dame 70.  Coulda been much worse at Cats' den.
    
    1-5
    
    

    Irish BBall team at USC tonight ( Southern Cal,I believe not
    So.Carolina).
    
    Anyone know anything about the Trojans besides their upset of Ohio St.?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    They have a guy named Miner on the USC team who not only looks like
    Mr. Jordan but plays like him.  An awesome player to watch.  He was
    on the receiving end of the alley oop to beat Ohio St.
    
    Jimbo

    I saw where ND plays North Carolina in the next week or two.  At least
    ND will get see how Navy feels when they play the Irish in football.
    
    Should be a fun one.  :^)
    
    
    Joe 

 �   I saw where ND plays North Carolina in the next week or two.  At least
 �   ND will get see how Navy feels when they play the Irish in football.

Betcha it's a close one.  We're talkin' Dean Smith here.  He always gets 
the Heels "up" to play down to their competition.    This one will be in 
Madison Square Garden on national tube.   Perfect conditions for a 
patented Snuff Choke.

Bob Hunt

    Surprising result
    
    Notre Dame 64   #23 USC 58
     2-5
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

>    Notre Dame 64   #23 USC 58
>     2-5
>    
>    MikeL


Jeez, Mike, now we'll have folks NuDing up in here left and right!


'SAw    
    
    

    'Saw,
    Let me know and I'll don me John the Baptist outfit to start
    the conversions, clothes optional.  8^)
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW
    Fer the Irish against USC
    Daimon Sweet 23 points
    LaPhonso Ellis 21 points, 15 rebounds,
    In La-La land no less.
    
    Things that make you go Hmmmmmm.
    Nexted at LaSalle 1/9
    

    Today's Glob reported that Holtz has hired a Jack Minter as his new
    defensive coordinator. Anyone know anything about him?
    
    MikeL
    

    Just heard from Dave McNeil in Noo Yawk.
    
    Jack Minter has been defensive coordinator at Ball st in Indiana for
    the last ten years I believe whar his defense has rated in the Top Ten
    in Division 1-AA (git my A's confused). He'll assume the same role at
    ND. He previously coached for Holtz at Arkansas in the 70's. In what 
    capacity I know not.
    So B4 y'all say it, BFD till nexted year when the proof's in the
    tackling.
    
    MikeL
    
    Anything new on the Mirer watch?
    
    
    
    

    Last night's results
    Notre Dame 87  LaSalle 79
    Is this not an upset? I know nothing about LaSalle only that the game
    was on LaSalle's homecourt.
    
    3-5.
    
    Next matchup. The Baby Blue Heels of North Carolina at Madison Sq in NY
    Saturday PM.
    
    Will Deano and Jimmy Black engage in a love fest at midcourt?
    
    MikeL
    
    

              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 37.509                     NOTRE DAME SPORTS                     509 of 515
SCNDRL::HUNT "Fenestracryptographer Wannabe"          9 lines   6-JAN-1992 12:40
                           -< Could be an upset !!! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 �   I saw where ND plays North Carolina in the next week or two.  At least
 �   ND will get see how Navy feels when they play the Irish in football.

Betcha it's a close one.  We're talkin' Dean Smith here.  He always gets 
the Heels "up" to play down to their competition.    This one will be in 
Madison Square Garden on national tube.   Perfect conditions for a 
patented Snuff Choke.

Bob Hunt
    
    
    
    Where's YOUR crystal ball, Bob? Hit this one right square. 
    ND 88, mighty UNC 76. Difn't get to see the game. Any details?
    
    Tonight, 4-5 Irish at West Virginia.
    
    MikeL
    

 Nothing magical about it, MikeL.   I've been watching Dean Smith pretend
 to coach basketball at North Carolina for close to 20 years.   When the
 conditions are set just right as indeed they were Saturday at the Garden,
 he never fails to come through for me.
 
 Wish the stock market was as predictable as our man Snuff.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Doc,
    Any new info on the Mike Miller situation from your journey back home?
    
    MikeL
    

    Brought back to earth quickly
    
    West Virginia 87   Notre Dame 67
    4-6
    
    Next game, 1/18 at Virginia
    
    MikeL
    

 

Rick Mirer update:

ESPN announced yesterday that Rick Mirer would stay in school for his senior
year and not enter the NFL draft.  He is scheduled to speak with Lou this
week to let him know the good news.

Also...Jay Hayes, defensive coach for the irish the past 5 years has left
his job to accept the defensive coordinator job at Holy Cross.

Dave    

    Thanks Dave!
    
    Joe, 
    Is that "damm" because of the anti-ND sentiment or because Mirer now
    won't git drafted by the Donks?? Both??
    
    BTW,
    That is good news for ND for the simple reason that his backups have
    very little experience (soph and freshman). One more year under Mirer
    and a good QB recruit will solidify the approach ND takes. Now let's
    hope Mirer can maintain year round consistency without the occassional
    late season slumps. Maybe Lou will open up ND's passing game with more
    complex routes, like Miami, to take advantage of Mirer's pro-style
    attributes (he hath a gun). Knowin' Lou's propensity for the
    ball-control running offense, that might be asking too much. Hmm, if
    Tony Smith (WR) opts to come back for a 5th year, Lou could be
    convinced. We'll see.
    
    MikeL
    

  

Mike,

I too would like to see a more wide open passing game from the Irish, but
how can you deny Jerome Bettis the ball.  The guy is a horse!!
I would like to see him run the ball 30 times a game...no one can touch him!

But who knows, if Smith comes back, Miller gets back into ND, and with 
Lake Dawson and Irv Smith still around, that makes for a mighty fine
receiving core!  But then again, I don't think it's the offense we need to
worry about!

Dave   

    Dave,
    Contingency, my main!  Wide open passing attack opens more avenues for
    studly Bettis and scatbacks Willie Clark and Lee Becton and vice versa
    of course!
    Hmmm. Lake Dawson,Irv Smith and potentially Mike Miller and a possible
    Tony Smith at receiving corps. Simply delicious.
    BTW, Blue and Gold Mag. confirms reports that Mike Miller has applied
    to ND for re-admittance for the new semester( start Jan 15). Admissions
    dept corroborates story, but at time of publication, no definite news
    on re-admittance. Anyone seen him on campus?? 8^) Let's see Dave, sneak
    over to your neighbor's house, and dial 1-900-BLUEGOL hit *2 and git
    all that up to date football news you want. Only 10 smackers fer the
    first 2 minutes. 8^)
    
    On a more serious note, Tom Beck, who officially was offensive
    backfield coach but in reality was considered co offensive coordinator
    along with Holtz, left ND to assume the role of offensive coordinator
    at Illinois. Beck stated he felt a little frustration with the offense
    at ND ( he was a proponent of a wide open attack as opposed to Lou's
    conservative rushing ball control) and felt he would have more
    creativity at Illinois. I hope this doesn't entrench lou into further
    solifying his conservative game approach. With that receiving corps,
    however, I think Lou will open up even more come next year.
    That's four assistant coaches who have left. Two for promotions 
    (Peter Vaas and Jay Hayes) and two laterals (Darnell and Beck).
    Need less turnover to keep attracting blue-chip recruits. Time will
    tell.
    
    And don't worry 'bout the "D". It'll come around next year (I hope)
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
    Not so fast, kemosabe Dave!
    Talked to my old college roomie from Chicago last night and got
    an update on a couple of items.
    
    First, Ken Mirer,Rick's Dad, denied the ESPN report that his son
    had made the decision to remain at ND his senior year. Rick Mirer
    and his dad had a meeting scheduled with Lou Holtz this past Wednesday
    (1/15), the day second semester started. No details were forthcoming
    from this meeting. Ken Mirer did state that the decision is all up
    to his son and that a final decision would be made next week. There
    were no indications which way he was leaning. Both Irish football
    publications predict, from info gathered from sources, that Mirer will
    remain at ND. So it's still all up in the air.
    
    Secondly, NOtre Dame's Admissions office has confirmed that Mike Miller
    has enrolled at the University for second semester freshman studies
    and will be available to play football in the fall.
    Now if only Mirer would stay so Miller and the others can have someone
    the throw them the football.
    
    More later as I git 'em.
    
    MikeL
    
    

    Glad I didn't see this one.
    
    Virginia 83  Notre Dame 56
    Ouch!
    Lustre's done wore off
    
    Next at Marquette 1/21
    
    MikeL
    

    Last night's action:
    
    Notre Dame 69  Marquette 63
    
    Next game vs. Missouri at South Bend, 1/23.
    
    MikeL
    

    Coupla recruits with Colorado flavor.
    
    ND has announced that Reggie Jones, DT, I believe from Calif. and
    Steve Atwater's cousin (or nephew) has committed to ND football fer
    next year. Jones is supposed to be one of the top HS Dl's in the
    country.
    The Irish have also announced that David Quist, a DE from Boulder,
    Colorado, signed a letter of intent to attend ND in the fall.
    This was a surprise as he was supposedly destined for Colorado.
    Any of you Rocky Mt oysters know anything about this dude?
    Thanks.
    
    MikeL
    

    It was reported during this morning's newsbroadcast that early
    this morning, a bus carrying the Notre Dame's Womans swim team
    was involved in a fatal accident.
    Supposedly the bus was returning from a meeet at Northwestern and
    during a snowstorm, the bus left the road and overturned "x" times.
    At this time there are two confirmed fatalities.
    There was no other information available so the status of the rest of
    the team is unknown.
    
    bummer.......
    
    I remain,
    yer listening reporter,
    Kev
    

    Sports seems real insignificant to me this AM as I heard the news
    that a bus carrying the Notre Dame women's swim team crashed on
    the Indiana toll road returning from a meet at Northwestern.
    Two students were killed and scores injured as the bus overturned in
    a blinding snowstorm.
    My prayers go out to the students, their families and friends.
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    Last Thursday, 1/23
    
    #12 Missouri 88  Notre Dame 79
    
    Tonight (1/27) vs. Dayton at South Bend
    
    And ESPN was right, Mirer stays.
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
>    Tonight (1/27) vs. Dayton at South Bend
   
    And don't forget about Saturday, at Duke. (Heh Heh)  This one should be
    a riot.  Can't wait to hear what the Dukies start chanting to the
    Irish.
     
>    And ESPN was right, Mirer stays.
    
    With this being official, poor, undermanned ND will enter the 1992
    season as a legit top-5 team.
    
    
    Joe
    

    Ya won't hear ME saying poor,undermanned ND
     (on offense anyway)
    Now defense is another story.
    Be looking forward to hear Lou's "spin"
    Top 5, Dunno, depends on the D.(quite possibly tho)
    
    Thanks for reminding me of Duke, Joe. Digger must be smilin', cursin'
    us with this suicide schedule whilst twiddlin' his thumbs recruitin'
    for the last three years.
    Don't fergit upcoming matchups with Syracuse, SJU, UCLA, DePaul,etc.
    
    I hope the Dukehaids keep it semiclassy!! 
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Last night's result.
    
    Notre Dame 76  Dayton 54
    
    Next game, 1/29 vs. DePaul at South Bend
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Last night's action.
    
    Notre Dame 74  DePaul 69
    
    Not bad after a 1-5 start, 7-7.
    
    Next, at #1 Duke, Saturday PM
    
    MikeL
    

    Recruitin time agin' !!
    ND had 25 scholarships to give for foosball till Mike Miller
    re-enrolled. So they're down to 24. So far they have 17 verbal commits
    They are as follows ( watch this'l put the curse on Lou and half of them
    won't sign on 2/5)
    
       Name                     Position        Home location
    
    1. Derek Mays               WR              Indianapolis,Ind
    
    2. Cliff Stroudt            OG              Western Pennsylvania
    
    3. Bill Waggasee            LB              Missouri
    
    4. Danny Ferguson           RB              Miami, Fla.
    
    5. Will Lyle                OT              Mississippi
    
    6. Anthony Jones            DE              Oaklawn, ILl
    
    7. Joe Babbe                LB              Louisville, Ky
    
    8. Steve Misetek            OL              Wilmette, Ill
    
    9. Dusty Ziegler            OL              Georgia
    
    10 Ben Foos                 DT              Louisville,Ky     
 
    11 Renaldo Wynn             LB              Chicago, Ill
    
    12 Adam Kane                OG              Osceola, Ind
    
    13 Paul Gresmanas           DT              Michigan
    
    14.Jeremy Akers             OL              Washington, D.C.
    
    15. Dave Quist              DL              Boulder,Colo.
    
    16. Leon Wallace            TE              Texas
    
    17. Mike "Chainsaw" McCullough  LB          Minnesota
    
    Love dis last guy,must run marathons and play rugby too
    BTW dat's his legit nickname
    More later
    
    
    MikeL
    
     

>    8. Steve Misetek            OL              Wilmette, Ill

Steve MISTAKE?  I can just hear it in practice...

    
>    9. Dusty Ziegler            OL              Georgia


sounds like he's relate to Dusty Rhodes....

    
>    17. Mike "Chainsaw" McCullough  LB          Minnesota
>    
>    Love dis last guy,must run marathons and play rugby too
>    BTW dat's his legit nickname
>    More later

Gotta love it...  an LB too!
    
    
'Saw    
     

    I can't believe they've recruited someone from Wilmette.  MORE INFO
    PLEASE!!  That's the town I grew up in, and it's Yuppieville
    personified - not the kind of place that grows recruitable football
    players under ordinary circumstances.  Does he go to New Trier?
    
    A&W

    Don't have all the details A&W, as soon as I find out I'll post'em.
    
    Bestest buddy of mine from ND moved to Wilmette freshman year of
    college. He used to live in the South Shore area and went to Mt. 
    Carmel HS. His younger brother went to New Trier. Great area,
     Wilmette-Evanston . This guy's folks' house was near the
    Evanston line, bordering a golf course and a short walk (stumble!!)
    to Northwestern's Dyche Stadium. Had a coupla keg parties in his
    dad's backyard before the ND-Northwestern football games. Then went
    out partyin' to all-girls college, Barat (sp) College (Elk Grove??)
    What fun.  I suppose you're familiar with those great bars on
    Howard St in Chitown just over the Evanston line??
    Those were the days. And NW fans were never belligerent, 'cuz they
    was used to losin'. Man,they could part also.
    
    MikeL
     

    Well, I left town to go to college, and my folks had moved by the time
    I was drinking age, so I *didn't* learn the bars of Chicago :-(.  Do
    have a good idea where your buddy lived, though.
    
    A&W

    Tough week for BBall
    
    Murdered at Duke
    Nipped vs Detroit
    Outfroshed by Michigan
    
    7-10
    Next at home Tuesday, 2/11 vs. Stanford
    
    MikeL
    
    P.S. A&W,
    
    The football player recruited from Wilmette for ND attended
    Loyola HS., not New Trier. Didn't know there was a Loyola HS in
    Wilmette. I'll have more info on him later this month.
    
    
    

    Mike -
    
    Thanks.  That makes more sense.  In that part of the world, the private
    schools are where you send kids who aren't making it academically in
    the public ones, believe it or not.  And Loyola had a good football
    program even back when I was in high school, many moons ago.  So the
    real jocks end up in the private school system.
    
    A&W

    22 total football commitments out of a possible 24. Last one has
    verbally committed   and could be written if last semester's GPA is
    acceptable.
    
    Player                         Home area           HS position
    
    1. Brian Magee                 Largo,Florida       DB
    
    2. Bill Waggasee               Missouri            LB
    
    3. Cliff Stroudt               Western Pa.         OG
    
    4. Pete Hemlevich              Sterling Hts,Mich   TE
    
    5. Bobby Taylor                Longview, Texas     DB
    
    6. Thomas Knight               Memphis, Tenn       DE
    
    7. Jeremy Akers                Washington, D.C.    OT
    
    8. David Quist                 Boulder, Colo.      DT
    
    9. Leon Wallice                Eustis,Texas        TE
    
    10.Mike"Chainsaw"McCullough    Minnesota           LB
    
    11.Derek Mays                  Indianapolis,Ind.   WR
    
    12.Steve Misetek               Wilmette, Ill       OT
    
    13.Dusty Ziegler               Georgia             OG
    
    14.Ben Foos                    Louisville, Ky      DT
    
    15.Renaldo Wynn                Chicago, Ill        LB
    
    16.Adam Kane                   Osceola, Ind        OT
    
    17.Paul Gresmanas              Michigan            DT
    
    18.Will Lyttle                 Mississippi         OG
    
    19.Anthony Jones               Oaklawn, Ill        DE
    
    20.Joe Babbe                   Louisville, Ky      LB
    
    21.Alton Mayhew                Dallas, Texas       DT
    
    22.Wade Smith                  Texas               QB
    
    23.Sterling Boyd *             Texas               RB
    
    
    More later
    
    MikeL
                   

    2/11 result
    
    Notre Dame 64  Stanford 63
    
    8-10
    
    Next game 2/15 at Syracuse
    
    MikeL
    

    Good results from Big lEast land
    
    Notre Dame 101, Syracuse 98, now 9-11.
    Irish upset #10 at home. Not bad for a team that absolutely looked
    horrendous when I saw them "play" BC. This team seems to enjoy 
    the "dog" role on the road. Big wins over UNC,USC and now Syracuse
    away from home. Coupla nice upsets at home agin DePaul and Stanford.
    Inconsistent?? Yeah, but with that killer schedule, they're gaining
    some respect. Looks like T was right in his assessment after the IU
    debacle. The team under MacLeod has improved quite a bit since the
    early goings-on. Wish they had beaten Michigan 'cuz with the Irish
    hockey team gittin' swept up at Ann Arbor, that's 0-4 this year
    against the Wolverines (major revenge nexted year starting with
    football in Sept) 
    Some big games at home next coupla weeks, UCLA and St John's coming
    up.
    
    One at a time,though
    Next game, Tues 2/18 vs Marquette at South Bend
    
    MikeL
    
    P.S. Actually missed the game vs Syracuse. Anyone catch it?
    

>    This team seems to enjoy 
>    the "dog" role on the road. Big wins over UNC,USC and now Syracuse
>    away from home. Coupla nice upsets at home agin DePaul and Stanford.
>    Inconsistent?? Yeah, but with that killer schedule, they're gaining
>    some respect. 

    Talk about an enigma.  Like one of the announcers said, you have to be a
    psychiatrist to figure out the IRish.  I figure all they need to do is
    play only ranked teams - they'd probably have a winning record.  Now if
    they knock off over-rated UCLA this weekend we'll get to listen to how
    they deserve to be in the tourney.  I'm sure the NIT will take ND
    regardless of how they do the rest of the way.
    
    Next year should be worse for ND.  They lose 4 starters and don't have
    much of a bench.  I would think Jon Ross will be starting and he didn't
    look to be much more than a big hacker.  That freshman Russell looked
    pretty good though.
    
    
    Joe
    
    

    

    I forget his name but IMO the guy who plays center for ND looked
    a hellova lot like Bill Walton - anybody else notice the resemblance?
    
    I understand that the NIT will not invite anybody with less than a .500
    record so ND is still "on the bubble".....
    
    Hal Tried Hard(tm)
    
    Kev
    

    Keith Tower tis the guy Kev,
    Resembles Walton facially, definitely not basketball-ly. 
    Irish now at 9-11, will have to put some giddyup in them to
    get to .500.
    
    And Joe,
    Next year will be worse. Losing four starting seniors with minimal
    talent on the bench  (only frosh Malik Russell and Billy Taylor could
    develop). And they're all young (mostly frosh and sophs) so nada in
    scolarships for the nexzt coupa years ( maybe 4 total)
    
    MikeL
    

    Last night's result
    
    Notre Dame 60  Marquette 53
    10-11
    
    Next game vs UCLA at South Bend, Sat. 2/22
    
    MikeL
    

    Anudder one bites da dust.
    
    Notre Dame 84 #2 UCLA 71
    11-11
    Next game at Dayton, 2/25.
    
    According to some people ( 8^) ), UCLA "embarrassed themselves and
    their conference " by losing to the Irish on Saturday. Let's see,
    the PAC 10 ( UCLA, USC, and Stanford) must feel lower than an earth
    worm, they're so embarrassed. Jest a little above them on the 
    "embarrassment" scale is the MAC ( DePaul and Marquette). Jest a
    tad higher is the ACC ( UNC, awright so we was whupped vs Duke and
    UVA), and the Big East ( Syracuse and soon to be nexted victim,SJU).
    Only the Big Ten and SEC seem to have escaped from blushing. Who's
    gonna embarrass themselves next vs the poor Irish??
    
    Is it too early to think NIT??
    
    I remain,
    A Bit surprised by it all,
    MikeL
     
    
     

    MikeL,
    
    "...soon to be blushed, SJU..."
    
    ???????????????
    
    Son, I'd like to point you over in the direction of one Crow Cafe'.
    I'll make sure the Maitre d' has a heaping pile all ready for ya!
    
    btw - add hopelessly optimistic to yer sign off too!
    
    Hal Tried Hard(tm),
    Kev
    

    Admit it Kev,
    You're squirming a bit fer Saturday's matchup!! 8^) Cuz you ain't sure
    which Irish team will show up?? Neither am I, but am Ah worried?? No
    sir 'tis all gravy from here. Looooie would look good with aig all over
    his ugly sweater
    Crow Cafe'??
    Not yet, MonSewer. But if'n I has to dine,I will. Methinks the plate
    shall be passed your way, Pops!! 8^)
    
    
    MikeL
    
     

    Ooops,
    One step backwards.
    "Mr. Hyde" Irish rears its ugly haid, blowing a 13 pt first half
    lead in bowing at Dayton, 60-58. Actually this is no real upset.
    Dayton, now 14-13, is a tough opponent at home and traditionally
    give the Irish fits there. No excuse tho, blowin a double digit
    lead tells it all. Inconsistency rules.
    
    11-12
    Next game Thursday, 2/27 vs. Loyola (Ill) at South Bend
    
    
    MikeL
     

    Last night's result
    
    Notre Dame 76 Loyola Ill  67
    
    12-12
    
    Next game, Saturday,2/29 at home vs St John's.
    
    MikeL
    

    Well, well
    Nice green sweater there, Looooie. It's not nice ta fool wif
    Mother Nature is it??  
    
    Notre Dame 79  @20somethin' St John's 70.
    13-12
    
    Redmen come up foul as Kev digests his fowl. Didst ya make it
    to the self-serve Crow Cafe' yet Kev? A whole plateful's awaiting
    you, Pops!1 8^)
    
    Remaining schedule
    
    3/3 XAVIER
    3/7 at DePaul
    3/9 at Evansville
    
    I hope Irish go 2-1 for final 15-13 record.
    Cain you say NIT babeeeee??
    
    MikeL
         

    
>    I hope Irish go 2-1 for final 15-13 record.
>    Cain you say NIT babeeeee??
    
    Hey Mike, don't pull a Lou Holtz routine and think they can only make
    the NIT.  Even at 15-13, I betcha (and hope to hell I lose) they make
    the NCAA tourney, and if they go 3-0 and finish 16-12 they're
    definitely in.  
    
    Meanwhile, an 18 or 19-win team like an Iowa State or Utah will be
    sentenced to the NIT.  Committee members, you should be ashamed.
    
    
    Joe
          

    	Compare Utah's and ND's schedules Joe.  I agree that 15 wins
    might get them in and 16 will.
    
    				/Don

Really Mike where is you team spirit NCAA all the way

    C'mon Joe,
    Even if the Irish go to da Dance, think of all those teams that'll
    have payback on their minds. Quite a few come to mind!
    
    Shamelessy gloating,(ain't dat disgusting)
    MikeL
    

    Honestly Jeff,
    Talent-wise they are more on a par (maybe less) with NIT-type
    teams. And I ain't holtzin (TM) it either. At home they can
    beat anyone, but on the road they've been remarkably inconsistent
    (yup big wins, all upsets agin SU, USC UNC, bit also big losses
    to UVA, Duke and West Virginny,Kaintuck and IU). Let's see how they
    fare against two tough teams ( DePaul and Evansville) on the road
    because I can't figure this team out, thus my conservative outlook.
    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see 'em in the Big Dance, but I
    don't want to jinx them. And believe me, this BBall team is quite
    capable of dropping all three remaining games.
    
    MikeL
    

    Let's see. With the tournaments coming up and ND lined up for a 
    possible NIT bid, and a longshot NCAA bid, I came up with a list
    of teams who were in the Top 25 WHEN the Irish played them and
    placed them in the won/lost categories. I also listed in a separate
    category those teams in the "also receiving votes" listing.
    FWIW if anything (are you reading this Selection Committee ??!!)
    
    Top 25 teams
    
    Win column                           Loss Column
    
    USC                                  Indiana
    North Carolina                       Kentucky
    DePaul                               West Virginia
    Stanford                             Missouri
    Syracuse                             Duke
    UCLA                                 Michigan
    St. Johns
    
    "Also receiving votes" category
    
    Win column                           Loss column 
    
    Marquette                            Louisville
                                         Boston College
                                         Virginia
    
    Not bad. Now let's win the last three games. Still say NIT babeee,
    but hoping for that coveted NCAA longshot
    
    
    MikeL
    
     

    Whew!!
    As we say in New England, a squeeka.
    Notre Dame 87  Xavier 86
    
    14-12
    
    Next game, Saturday, 3/7 at DePaul
    
    MikeL
    

     

Looks like the Dim hopes of a NCAA bid grew kinda Dark as the Irish
lost at DePaul by one.  Not sure the final Score...something like
66-65.  Anyone got any details on this one.

Dave    

    Dave,
    Only heard the result and how DePaul scored its last point. Seems
    MacLeod got whistled fer a "T" by one of the refs with 2.2 seconds
    on the clock with the score tied. The Depaul guy sank the second
    of his free throws for the one point win. MacLeod musta really
    unloaded to draw a fr#@$kin T with 2 clicks remaining. Tough way
    to lose one.
    
    14-13.
    Last game of regular season tonight at Evansville.
    
    MikeL
    
    Anyone care to fill us in on wha' happened in the last seconds at
    DePaul?
    

 He got the T for hurling his jacket on to the court. I believe it was a 
 protest to a non-call at ND offensive end. All they have to do is beat
 Evansville. at 15-13 they'll make it they always do. They always play
 a tough schedule and beat a few names during the year and most importantly
 their alumni bring $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to the tournment site
 wherever they ship em'....

 I swear you could sent ND to Caribou Maine and half the house would have
 on ND jerseys....

 ;^)

    When ESPN reminded me that the ND-DePaul game was on, I switched over
    from the BYU-Utah game to catch the final minutes.  
    
    I guess ND had a big lead but DePaul had come back.  With a little over
    a minute left and ND leading by one, a DePaul player made an incredible
    steal and put the Demons up by one.  After ND tied it, DePaul missed a
    shot with 8 seconds left and ND called TO.  An ND player (can't
    remember who, but they said he wasn't a likely one to try the last
    shot) drove to the hoop and was hammered just about the time he
    released the shot (maybe a split second after he released it).  No call, 
    shot missed, DePaul grabbed the rebound and called TO with 2.2 seconds 
    left.  The ND guy who missed the shot almost drew a technical, but 
    seconds later McLeod did draw one.  As mentioned, the DePaul guy missed 
    the first T but made the second and DePaul just inbounded the ball for 
    the win.
    
    IMHO (that's my *honest* opinion), it should've been a foul.  But I'm
    not complaining.  :^)
    
    If ND wins at Evansville tonight, they will be without a doubt the
    most analyzed and talked about bubble team.  If they lose tonight, it's
    NIT.
    
    Go Purple Aces!
    
    
    Joe
       

    Hey, Hey,
    It wasn't a chair so why the T?? 8^)
    Wail, that was a dumb move by MacLeod. Sheeit, no ref worth his salt
    is gonna call a T unless you show him up. And no matter the bitch,
    throwin' the coat is showin' him up. Stoooooopid. You're more
    optimistic than I, Mike( sarcasm intended 8^)), a 15-13 record into
    the NCAA's?? Maybe. As Waugamain mentioned ta me this AM, cain't ya see
    the bitchin from all the #1 seeds if ND was seeded 16? In any regional?
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW Caribou Mainiacs would think "Notre Dame" meant the cathedral
    in Paris, a reminder of their ancestry, n'est-ce-pas?
    

oui mouseir...what a home court advantage that's be...

>  All they have to do is beat
>  Evansville. at 15-13 they'll make it they always do. They always play
>  a tough schedule and beat a few names during the year 

    OK, ND's played quite a few top teams and beat their share of 'em.  But
    what about teams like Kansas State?  They're over .500 and play in
    what is possibly this year's toughest conference.  And yes, they have
    wins over the big boys also.  I don't just mean KSU either.  I don't
    have conference standings and records in front of me, but I'm sure you
    could look at the Big 10, SEC, ACC or any other major conference and
    find teams with records similar to ND's but won't get in.   
    
>  and most importantly
>  their alumni bring $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to the tournment site
>  wherever they ship em'....

    It's a shame that the committee will select ND just to draw a few
    thousand more fans at a first-round game when the NCAA is already
    raking in the bucks with CBS' contract.
    
    
    Joe

    The NCAA really doesn't have to invite certain teams in order to
    guarantee first round sellouts, since the tickets seem to go fast no
    matter where the games are played.
    
    John

    Aye ya are Ninj'!!!!
    

    Now I ain't gonna go in a neber-ending rathole wif ya Joe 'cuz I
    (gasp) might be in agreement with ya on somepoints.
    
    First I'm rooting like hail that they make the NCAA but IMHO if they
    don't I won't be overly disappointed. Ya see I believe that the
    best match for them talent-wise would be the NIT. I think it is a
    major accomplishment if they finish over .500, so the NCAA would be
    gravy. True there are other teams that have comparable records to ND
    with wins (ala KSU) over bigboys. But I'll bet these teams have done
    it in-conference whereas ND has won and lost against bigboys from
    several conferences ( Big East, Big Eight, Pac 10, Big Ten, ACC, you
    git the picture). Who gets the vote? Your guess is as good as mine.
    
    And before you start bitchin ( with possibly some valid,I said
    possible, points) about ND's attraction= NCAA invite, do you honestly
    think they would be a worthy addition to the tournament politics aside?
    I think they would be an intersting attraction,because of the Jekyll-
    Hyde "gameface". As I mentioned earlier, do you think a #1 or #2 seed
    in any regional is gonna want to see ND rather than some 3rd place
    East Gumshoe Conf., dang good record, but anticipated patsy #15 or
    #16 seed? Methinks not. 
    
    Let's see how they do tonight. A loss to the Purple Aces means NIT
    babee ( mebbe they'll make it to da Big Apple whar I might venture
    to see 'em). A win might place 'em in the West Regional at Albuquerque,
    whar you cain root 'em on firsthand!! 8^)
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    
    
     

>>  and most importantly
>>  their alumni bring $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to the tournment site
>>  wherever they ship em'....

 >   It's a shame that the committee will select ND just to draw a few
 >   thousand more fans at a first-round game when the NCAA is already
 >   raking in the bucks with CBS' contract.
    
    You guys might spare yourself some embarrassment by actually waiting to
    see who does or doesn't make the tournament before making these claims,
    just like when you all swore to the end that Notre Dame would forever be
    wed to NBC-only bowl games, only to see the conspiracy fail to 
    materialize in the very first year of the contract (sure, the bowl system 
    sold out to ND, it just wasn't NBC that was the culprit; ABC acted on
    its own free will instead of from an inside position).
    
    Of course, if Notre Dame doesn't get selected, you'll be claiming a moral 
    victory for all concerned and congratulating the selection committee for 
    not falling for the deadly trap that only you have imagined and
    constructed, but which never existed in the first place.  Seriously, I 
    see nothing riding on the selection of the ND basketball team to the 
    NCAAs this year.
    
    glenn
    

    Thanks Glenn,
    Dat's why I deferred. Has more impact coming from a objective
    analyst than from an emotional (on dis issue anyhoo) analyst.
    Which is why Joe' opinion is slanted also. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Hail, I ain't bashing ND.  I'm cryin 'cause I ain't got any
    NCAA tickets.
    
    BTW, I commend ND for a fine season, firsted year coach and all that.
    Hate Digger = hate ND (then)
    new coach = they're OK (now)
    
    Don't push it, be happy with da OK.
    
    Kev
    

    No dancin' this year.
    Routed at Evansville 74-56, Aces now 22-5 and looking for an NCAA
    invite (gots ta beat Xavier in conf playoffs)
    
    Irish end up 14-14.
    NIT calling?
    
    MikeL
    

    Two Irish teams make post season tournaments.
    
    Irish men's basketball team opens at home tonight vs. Western Michigan
    in the NIT tournament.
    
    Irish women's basketball team plays at UCLA tonight in the opening
    round of the NCAA Women's Tournament. The Lady Irish are the only
    sub .500 team in the tourney at 14-16. Squad won the automatic bid
    given to the MCC champion ( believe they was 9-4 in conference, edging
    out Xavier).
    
    MikeL
    
    

>    Squad won the automatic bid
>    given to the MCC champion 

    What's this?!?  A Notre Dame team in a conference???  I thought the
    Irish were too good for conferences.
    
    Joe
    

    Nah Joe,
    The only ND teams not in a conference are the men's football and BBall
    teams. 
    
    MikeL
    

   

	The Irish win their second NIT game of the Tourney
	as they trounce Kansas State....not sure of the final
	score, but it wasn't close!

	ND now will play Manhatten, in South Bend, later this
	week.

	Dave