Conference 7.286::digital

    Almost any other company they want to go to!

> Nothing on the rumor that the LKG building has been sold?  If true,
> where do the Networks folks re-locate to?

	Probably goes hand in hand with the rumor that the NBU would
	be sold off.  In which case, the NBU and the employees in
	the NBU would be sold together (the non-NBU folks that are
	still in LKG would go to LJO of course :-)

    Is anyone able to provide the source(s) regarding the rumors
    related to LKG building selling and regarding NPBU potential
    sell off ?

>    Is anyone able to provide the source(s) regarding the rumors
>    related to LKG building selling and regarding NPBU potential
>    sell off ?


Yes, DIGITAL notes conference, note 4840.0

    I noticed some surveryors out in the front yard (Rt 110) either
    last week or the week before.  I believe when a person sees 
    them they think a plot plan is being done.  That might have 
    caused the rumor.
    
    Curious, I asked him what he was surveying for and he said it
    looked like a new parking lot.
    
    Rumor killed?

	Yes, there are plans to add on to the parking lot.  I know 
	because we are looking at alternate locations for the DVN 
	antenna.

	Norma

New parking lot? How about a multi-story parking garage! The spaces
in the LKG-2 lot are only about 6 inches wide. We also need space
for *MORE* cars so people won't have to park on the traffic islands.

;^)

    Too bad LKG can't adopt some more bike friendly policies to promote
    bicycle commuting, namely permitting bicycles in cubicles.  Most
    hi tech companies (and other Digital sites) don't have a problem with
    this, but for some reason the Littleton security cluster is adamant
    on their policy (which they claim is "corporate policy", which is a
    lie, which incidentally, *is* against corporate policy).
    
    Apparently it's much easier to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars
    on pavement than change a policy to promote alternative commuting.
    .02 Kratz

    If it's true that they're planning on adding parking,
    I wonder if they'll add enough that all our offices can
    be reduced to 8x10?
    

>    bicycle commuting, namely permitting bicycles in cubicles.  Most
>    hi tech companies (and other Digital sites) don't have a problem with
>    this, but for some reason the Littleton security cluster is adamant
>    on their policy (which they claim is "corporate policy", 

  I suspect that there are portions of Digital's corporate security policy
that are not included in VTX ORANGEBOOK.
  Six years ago, when FXO was a Digital plant, someone tried to put a bike in
an office. Security let her do so for a short time, then said "no".
  If we can't have bikes in our offices, how about an enclosed area for bike
storage? Three such facilities, one at each major entrance, with a capacity
for 20 bikes each, would be a lot cheaper than building new parking lots. 
  Also, what about promoting carpooling? I estimate that 95% of the workforce
at LKG comes to work in single-occupant passenger cars.
  We do need to do "something" about parking here. The parking lots are never
chock full (except a few days a year, after a big snowstorm), but people 
arriving at 10 am may have to park a quarter mile away. 
  Any expansion of the parking lots would (I assume) have to be approved by
the Littleton board(s), and that would enable people who work at LKG and live
in Littleton to monitor the process.
  I don't think it would cost $100K, but it would cost plenty.

    
    	Bob, there is nothing in corporate policy that says that you
    	can't bring a bicycle into a building.  Apparently a few of
    	the Facilities managers don't approve of the practice, so
    	they don't allow it if they find out about it.
    
    	The reason cited relates to building evacuations and the
    	danger of trying to save your bicycle or something like
    	that.
    
    	There's a topic in NOTED::BICYCLE that's dedicated to this
    	discussion.
    

>I suspect that there are portions of Digital's corporate security policy
>that are not included in VTX ORANGEBOOK.

Like most of it, since VTX ORANGEBOOK was personnel, not security policy.

/john

The increase in parking space is required before they "densify" LKG.  As it
stands now, there is insufficient parking space to handle the number of
densified occupants.  

      Wouldn't it be easier to have a bike rack that you can lock you bike
    to, or are you in a high theft area?
    
      Tj

    why should anyone even need to bring their bike in the building if
    there is a bike rack available? can i bring my car in the building if i
    am afraid of it being stolen?

Bicycles are much easier to make off with than an automobile.
Also, you will not get the same response from the police if
you phone in a bicycle theft v. a car theft.

Cars are more likely to be insured where bicycles are not.

My bicycle would cost me (out of pocket) around $5k to
replace. On a scale of car-to-bicycle that is probably
equivalent to losing a Ferrari. No thanks.

All the above, and of course, not discounting your
analogy being a bit of a stretch.

The point is a bicycle rack offers no protection from
the elements or theft. There are bicycle lockers that
offer both. They are not that expensive.

I guess the whole argument hinges on just how "green"
you are or into exercise.

Chip

Would you bring a Ferrari to work and leave it in the lot?

-1 Probably.

    If that nice Mr Benedetti bought me one, I suppose I might.

Chip:

> My bicycle would cost me (out of pocket) around $5k to
> replace. On a scale of car-to-bicycle that is probably
> equivalent to losing a Ferrari. No thanks.

  Maybe you need to stop riding your Ferrari to work.
  How 'bout a nearly-as capable $500 bike, or even an
  old $100 used bike? You might even get more exercise
  with a slightly heavier bike.

  And you'll have far less to worry about. A $100 bike
  probably doesn't even need a lock!

                                   Atlant

    >why should anyone even need to bring their bike in the building if
    >there is a bike rack available? can i bring my car in the building if i
    >am afraid of it being stolen?
    
    Clue: one contains a gasoline bomb; one doesn't.

    >why should anyone even need to bring their bike in the building if
    >there is a bike rack available? can i bring my car in the building if i
    >am afraid of it being stolen?
    
    Size could also be a factor. 

Well, Atlant... I love my bicycle. I love the performance of my
bicycle. I would not enjoy hopping on some boat anchor knowing
that I would have my favorite sitting in my basement.

One of the biggest reasons I can think of is I really don't
have ride an alternate and why should I?

Chip

You mean people actually have room for a bicycle in their office?  Must be 
nice!  I hardly have room for a 2nd chair!

    
    	2nd chair??
    
    	I had to wedge 1 chair in here and shave a few mils off the
    	edges so it would have room to turn!!
    

No offense, but the idea of displacing a new parking lot by adding some bicycle
space is pretty ridiculous.  Also, the latest heard around here was that the
proposed 'densification', i.e. shrinking cubicles in LKG, was cancelled.

The LKG parking lot is routinely packed, and more space is needed.  People park
illegally everywhere (even early in the morning, when the lot is nearly empty,
which I find rather silly too).  There are rarely more than a couple bikes
outside, and adding space for twenty or thirty won't do nearly enough to
resolve the parking problem that already exists, whether more people are moved
to LKG or not.  We just need more parking, that's all.

Besides, this IS New England, and cycling is not exactly practical for about
half the year, fanatics and hobbyists excluded, and the vast majority of the
people in LKG probably don't ride a bike anyway.  It's not a reasonable
solution.  Even a successful carpooling program isn't likely to put a big
enough dent in the overcrowded lots.

We just need another parking lot, that's all.  It's a shame to lose the apple
trees and the grass, but the problem needs to be addressed.

So...is this bicycle thing some private, unrelated agenda...or did I touch base
on the wrong planet today? ;-)

The surveyors are apparently working on a new parking lot, which we badly need,
and the rumor of LKG being sold is apparently pure conjecture.  Big deal.

tim

    A parking garage isn't out of the question, at least for companies
    other than this one.  The too-small parking lot next to MRO3 was
    quickly replaced by a parking garage after DEC sold that building. 
    That parking lot was deliberately too small (plenty of room to make one
    big enough for all the cars normally wanting to park there); I heard at
    the time that it was a state law to encourage ride-sharing that
    buildings had to have fewer parking spaces than the expected number of
    workers in them.  It meant that people working in MRO3 while I worked
    in MRO1 either parked in our huge parking lots (built when RCA owned
    the building, years before) and walked a long ways, or parked all over
    the grass and fire lanes and sidewalks in order to be near MRO3.  No
    problem these days - maybe whatever state law it was got voted out?
    
    /Charlotte

    I'll admit that LKG becoming more like Digital's Palo Alto
    facility is a stretch... completely different mindset about cars,
    parking, and commuting in general.  It is kind of frustrating,
    however, to see companies like #9 in Lexington, Mass allow bikes
    in offices (I can always make room in my office) and really take
    full advantage of a nearby bike trail.  Digital (at least in New
    England) seems stuck in the 50's with the "put a rack out front
    and they will come" accomodations.
    .02 Kratz  
    

>  We do need to do "something" about parking here. The parking lots are never


The FIRST thing you have to do is silence Walter Clancey.  Maybe, just maybe, 
then, you can get a permit to do something other than reduce the size of the 
parking spaces every time the asphalt is re-sealed and the lines re-painted.

regarding putting a bicycle in your cube:  Look into corporate EH&S 
guidelines.  I'll bet your bicycle will get us a hefty OSHA fine if we're 
audited and they find it obstructing your access in or out of your cube.

re .26
> No offense, but the idea of displacing a new parking lot by adding some 
bicycle
> space is pretty ridiculous.  Also, the latest heard around here was that the
> proposed 'densification', i.e. shrinking cubicles in LKG, was cancelled.

Oh, you can fit 6 (or more depending upon parking structure) bikes in the space 
that 1 car takes.  This appears to be a better utilization of land to me.

> Besides, this IS New England, and cycling is not exactly practical for about
> half the year, fanatics and hobbyists excluded, and the vast majority of the
> people in LKG probably don't ride a bike anyway.  It's not a reasonable
> solution.  Even a successful carpooling program isn't likely to put a big
> enough dent in the overcrowded lots.

Actually, you can bike commute regularly about 9 months of the year in New 
England.  I'm in SHR, and have been bike commuting regularly for about 8 years.  
March-October are the prime months, but there are oppourtunities to bike to work 
in each month of the year.  On a yearly basis I bike to work about 1/2 the time.


We have similar parking problems in SHR and the real problem is a people 
problem.  People don't want to walk a long distance from their car to their 
desk.  People don't want to give up the conveinence of their single occupant 
motor vehicle.  Well, all those cars driving to work cause a need for big 
parking lots, heavy traffic on the roads, and lots of pollution.  You don't 
notice the polution very much in this area because it generally blows out to 
sea, but if we had mountains in the way as Los Angeles does, then we would have 
equally bad pollution.

You've seen the survey that came out back on Earth Day (April) on commuting 
habits.  The company is required to survey employees commuting habits by the 
state in preparation for methods of increasing the ratio of employees to motor 
vehicle at the work sites.  The state has this law as part of their plan to meet 
federal CMAQ (congestion mitigation and air quality) requirements.

Building more (bigger) roads and parking lots doesn't solve the problem.  It 
only encourages people that are now NOT contributing to the problem (by 
carpooling or using alternate commuting methods) to embrace the convienence of 
driving their own car to work.  New roads and new parking lots are quickly 
filled and the congestion problems return.

Now, if gasoline was properly taxed, then maybe people would be more likely to 
look for ways to conserve it.

Rich

    re .30
    That's true; the bike needs to be placed against a wall of your
    cubicle and not represent an egress hazard.  Seems pretty easy
    and intuitive to accomplish for me; I don't think a lot of people
    would want to lay it down in the middle of their cubicles.
    Kratz

There is a seemingly high-tech and high-security bike rack at ZKO. Each bike
holder has a metal cover that protects the front wheel from theft and a place to
secure a U-lock. Unless you are parking in NYC, this is probably secure enough
for daily use. The rack is located under a bridge between ZK2 and ZK1, so
provides some protection from the elements. I was impressed when I found it (had
to ask security where to park bikes... and they ahd to call around...)
 
The one problem I've had with it was that the front wheel protection scratched
my front fork. I try to take good care of my bike, but it's more in the Honda
Civic rather than the Ferarri price range.

There are less than 20 slots in the bike rack (I think) and I've never seen it
full.

Of course, it's a long walk from ZKO to LKG...

-Jeff

Of course, you're assuming (for bike commuting) that the commuter either has 
some substantial saddlebaskets (haven't had them since I delivered papers back 
in the 50s) or don't carry much work home. Toss a laptop, some paper notebooks, 
and half a docset on the back of your bike and you'll have trouble keeping 
upright...

    
    	RE: .27
    
    	Fidelity built a parking garage at MRO4 also.
    
    
    	RE: .31
    
    	Gasoline not properly taxed?  Yeah, right.
    

    As for bikes in offices just treat it like a hanging plant. Its out of
    the way and when you need it just take it off the hooks.  :-)

The operative word for bicycles in the workplace
is "obstruction". Obstructions can be created
with any object (even objects normally found
in the work place). Of course, you knew this.

The question was bicycles in the building, period.

Chip

    I would love to bike to work.  ZK has nice enough bike facilities
    though bringing it inside would be better.  However,  I wouldn't feel
    safe biking on on Wason Road in Hudson (windy and narrow with no
    shoulders),  Daniel Webster highway in Nashua (I witnessed on car bike
    accident in front of me a couple of years ago), and Spit Brook Road.
    
    The safest part of the route is the bridge from Hudson to Nashua, which
    is to be replaced and the new bridge might be limited access road which
    would make the journey impossible.
    
                                                august

    re .34
    My HiNote Ultra has survived the bumpy backroads in a fanny pack ok
    so far, although the corners have got scuffed up.

re -.1

I ride from Musquash Rd in Hudson with no problems.  The traffic on Wason Rd is
not bad, Daniel Webster has a good size breakdown lane for most of it and if you
detour through the Royal Ridge Mall parking lot you can avoid the intersection
at Barnes and Noble.  I thought getting by the new overpass at Spitbrook Road
would be a problem but that's ok too.  Just make sure you have a mirror.  It's a
lot more comfortable and safer when you can see what's coming.

George

Guess I type to slow.  Reply .40 was in response to  .38

George

> Gasoline not properly taxed?  Yeah, right.

In economic theory, yes; gasoline should be taxed so that its cost to
consumers matches its true economic costs including externalities.
Those are the cost of maintaining and building more roads to deal
with increased traffic and the costs of substituting another energy
source in the future and poloution costs.

In Europe people seem to acknowledge this argument.
In the US, the argument is much harder to make given current
low density living arrangements an the consequently inadequate
public transportation.  [People will not usually walk more than
2 or 3 blocks to a bus stop.]

At LTN and BXB I kept my bike in my office for a couple of years.
It was far less of an obstruction than some of my coworkers with
pack rat genes create in their offices.  I've heard tale of fire
marshals condeming buildings on the basis of such offices, but I
think the tales are apocryphal.