Conference 7.286::digital

    That which is a rose...
    
    
    Ya know, I don't know if we're officially called Digital or DEC.  
    Doesn't matter, changes nothing.
    
    

    I was on the telephone just yesterday with a Microsoft Sales rep.  I
    identified myself as a Digital employee and then verbally appended
    "aka DEC" because in all my previous conversations with them, no sign
    of recognition was seen UNTIL I mentioned DEC was Digital.
    
    This guy then informed me (in a light-hearted way) that he knew us a
    Digital... and understood we were all supposed to use "Digital" instead
    of DEC, and was using "Digital" himself.  He told me that he'd been
    advised by another Digital employee that we'd changed what we were
    named.
    
    I agreed with him, but told him he was the first and ONLY MS employee
    that I'd ever heard use Digital vs DEC.
    
    I think we maketh this issue larger than life.
    
    As someone said (was it Pogo?) "I don't care what they calls us... as
    long as they calls us."
    
    tony

We used to have old stickers that said:

	Isn't every computer a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| computer?

Maybe we should revive this slogan?

Nice thought, but using a trademarked logo as part of a sentence is a
no-no, according to the "Corporate Identity Manual".  (Not that that stops
people from doing it...)

					Steve

    
    DEC(k), because we're always reshuffling it.

    fred();

RE: .6

	It's not us who's waffling back. It's the customers and partners
	(especially Bill Gates) who STILL call us DEC.

	The "digital" name is fine, but we forget "DEC". It's an asset,
	not a hinderance.  Federal Express is still Federal Express, but
	it's ALSO FedEx. We can, and should, do the same.

							mike

    "Digital" is confusing.  I keep seeing sentences in trade magazines
    that refer to "Digital systems" or whatever.  I think, "Oh, let's
    see what they have to say about us."  Then it turns out the article
    is using digital as an adjective and not talking about Digital, the
    company, at all.
    
    I've been confused when reading advertisements.  Somebody will be
    selling "Digital modems" or something.  Are they ours?  At first
    glance, one might think so.  They weren't.
    
    DEC is unique, it's impossible to be confused by it, it's short and
    easy to remember, it's readily recognizable.  Trying to use "Digital"
    for the company name is equivalent to IBM trying to use "International."
    

    notes collision...
    
    I thought this was dec ided  once and for all when the logo changed a few
    years back.    Our company name is Digital.    I always use Digital
    stationary, my business card says Digital, the building I drive up
    to and work at has a sign that says Digital, this notes conference is
    called what?    The shirts,etc you can buy at the DECstore ;-/ 
    (Digitalstore?)   have Digital embosed on them, every terminal, cpu, disk 
    drive, etc in sight says Digital...   
    
    Clearly we are attempting to establish the Digital brand.
    
    Maybe we should make more of a point of informing our customer base
    that our company/brand is Digital instead of waffling back to the 
    DEC days?   
    
    I do understand the flustrating part of this - happens all the time...  
    whenever such and such a vendor starts talking about their 'digital'
    this and that...
    
    I like Digital myself, although I keep an eye on the DEC stock...
    
    
    

Corporate Identity Manual? I bet its a DEC standard too :-) :-)

>Per

    re .8
    
    Your equipment may say Digital, mine also says DECstation.  I use 
    DECwrite, DECopresent, DECgraph, etc.  If our customer call us DEC it 
    is because we started it.  Federal Express has repainted their trucks
    to read FEDex because their opinion is:
    
    We don't care what they call us as long as they call us.
    
    Ours seems to be:
    
    Don't call us if you can't call us right.
    
    The customer is not always right, but they may have a good idea in 
    calling us DEC.  I too am tired of reading "digital" in company names
    and descriptions that have nothing to do with Digital Equipment
    Corporation.
    
    Linda
    
    

    
	Here is the crux of the problem...
    
    	Lots and Lots of software products appear to be made by DEC
    	while Digital makes the hardware
    
    	DECNET
    	DECPS
    	DEC BASIC
	DEC OSDS-Optical
    	Decwindows
    	Decmail
    	DECvoice
    	DEC OSF/1 Development
    	DECplan Time Manager Client
	DECdcs
    
    
    	So we call dec-direct still?
    
    

I think it's fine to promote the 'Digital' brand name and everything,
but we really ought to stop wincing when people call as DEC...because
ya know what?  You'll never get people to stop calling Chevrolets a 
'Chevy' either.

I think both names are acceptable.  I hate it when people call me Steve,
because it's wrong...if ya want to shorten my name, technically, you
should call me 'Steph'...actually it's more confusing than that because
Stephen is pronounced Steven...and Steven shortened to Steve is fine.

But I never correct someone that calls me Steve, and if asked I say both
is fine...but people close to me all call me Stephen.

I think that's the way we should approach the Digital/DEC dilema.

JMO,

-Stephen

    
    we are really beating a dead horse....
    
    I never experice such unfortold dilemma when I worked for
    HP. It was HP and Hewlett-Packard, anytime, anywhere, anyhow
    (except for the butchering of its fullname pronounciation outside
    the US!). Why should this be A HUGE issue with us? Yes, a name branding
    campaign has been launched with $$ is still being spent on it, but if
    the market recognizes "DEC" as a branding, we are already halfway home.
    
    I was out east when all this boo-ha-ha came about. Then I thought it
    was money badly (unnecessarily) spent, now the MS-DEC DVN simply
    confirms it. Why fight an established market perception?? I mean
    changing DEC to Digital does not fix product transitioning problems,
    employee morale, broken MIS infrastructure or anything else!
    
    Beatrice (a consumer goods/food conglomerate) tried the same during
    a Summer Olympics (anyone recalls this??). Each ad tied a recognized 
    supermarket brand to Beatrice. Would you remember Skippy Peanut Butter 
    or Beatrice??
    

         THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS:  DIGITAL(tm) & DEC(tm) TIE THE KNOT
    
    
    MAYNARD, MA USA, August 9, 19XX (UPI_Not):  In a surprise but never-
    theless long-awaited move, the CEOs of DIGITAL and DEC signed a
    Strategic Alliance today at Ciro's (tm) Ristorante Italiano, a lovely
    riverside restaurant in this historic old New England town.  The venue
    for the ceremony was apparently chosen because not only does Ciro's
    sell the best calzones in Maynard, but also because it is about halfway
    between the two Corporate Heaquarters -- DIGITAL's in the shiny new
    building on Powdermill Road, and DEC's in the historic Mill in the
    town's center.  
    
    The two CEOs (who bore a striking resemblance one to the other, leading
    some reporters to speculate they had been Separated At Birth) talked
    glowingly -- after the formal announcement and signing ceremony -- of
    the expected revenue boost they could expect after merging their
    already-similar product lines.  "And, we'll no longer regret the
    revenues we used to lose -- because of THEM!" said one of the CEOs,
    smiling.  "We'll merge our two brands, and they'll be stronger together
    than they EVER could have been, separately!" said the other CEO.  "We
    plan a big campaign to solidify & reinforce the 'DEC is Digital,
    Digital is DEC' story." ... "Our customers have been saying it for
    years anyhow, it's time we cashed in on it!" .. we soon lost track of
    which CEO was saying what.
    
    Then they moved towards one another -- and mysteriously merged.  There
    was a puff of smoke -- some sort of digital holography must have been
    in play all along...  To the astonishment of the assemblage, only one
    CEO emerged from the smoke, bearing a striking resemblance to the two
    original CEOs.  Then he left the restaurant, taking no questions, but
    flashing a very broad smile.  This Reporter rushed to the podium.  It
    turns out that the only thing between the two CEOs had been a mirror.
    
    When trading was reopened, DEC stock soared on Wall Street, and is
    broadly expected to break $199.50 soon.
    
    --ENDS--
    
          -< NOT A REAL PRESS RELEASE NOT A REAL PRESS RELEASE >-
                                                                      
    :-)
       

    <<< RE .LAST
    
    Just think of all the wasted manpower hours and of course money for
    marketing and ads, due to this name war. Forget it. Get over it.
    Is it really such a big deal? I think not. If a customer is confused
    enlighten them, one might learn something, or sell something in return.
    
    -Mike Z.

    And so I believe it's up to us to eliminate it.  Not suppress it.
                    

    How about D.E.C. (Dee Eee Cee) like NEC does.......yuk yuk.
    
    /bd 

re .14

Ah, the irony!

We have 

>    (except for the butchering of its fullname pronounciation outside
>    the US!). 

and

>    I was out east when all this boo-ha-ha came about. 

Hey, brouhaha isn't even a foreign word any more!
It got its papers long ago.


	:-)

    In New York Dee Ee Cee is the Department of Environmental Conservation.
    
    \dave

re .18

OK folks, here some proof of the dilema...

I live in Seattle, for obvious reasons, the local news covers Microsoft
happenings regularily, because besides Boeing, it's our big company...it
gets press, probably just like DEC (oops!) does in Maynard.

So the MS/DEC announcement hits and like troopers, KING 5 television, the
NBC affiliate here, puts up a bulleted list of the days headlines...

The first item is that D.E.C. 'The Digital Equipment Company' (reporters
exact words) and Microsoft have made an announcement.....

-Stephen

    Just ordered my 10-year award. I'm looking forward to receiving a very
    nice analog watch with a little plaque attached which says DIGITAL;^)
    
    \dave

    ...and I just got my 10 year ring with a very nice "digital" logo on it
    but I still think that it's short-sighted - at best - to turn our corporate
    back on the recognition that "DEC" has in the marketplace.
    
    Brian Pituley
    

>    ...and I just got my 10 year ring with a very nice "digital" logo on it
>    but I still think that it's short-sighted - at best - to turn our corporate
>    back on the recognition that "DEC" has in the marketplace.

But this is true ONLY in english speaking countries. 65% or so of our sales are
outside of the US with probibly half in non-english speaking countries. We do
not need to further confuse the marketplace. WNT vs OSF-1 vs Digital Unix vs
VMS vs OpenVMS is already doing a good enough job of confusing customers!

Dan Buckley

    Wow.. Is that an announcement.. The US now speaks English ...
    
    Progress indeed..... (-;

    15 years at "Digital" and with all three of my award/gifts (5yr, 
    10yr, 15yr) the "Digital" logo fell off... 
    
    I hear both every day.  We shouldn't discourage the use of either by
    our customers, associates, friends, family....
    
    

    I took a strategic management class in my MBA program.  Our professor
    who has done consulting with Digital in the distant past (~days before
    BP and company) consistently referred to us as DEC, not Digital.  The
    entire class knew what he was talking about too, and the IBM and HP
    people all know us by DEC.  Hell, the IBM guy even referred to his
    company as "Big Blue".
    
    This whole thing regarding Digital vs. DEC is truly a bunch of American
    Baloney.  We get too caught up on this stuff, it's interesting at best
    on page 19 of the Wall Street Journal.  If the richest guy in the world
    wants to stand before the planet and say great things about DEC, I say
    let him chant it like the holy grail.  It's free advertising for us,
    something we normally would have to have paid big bucks for through
    some other media vehicle.  DEC vs. Digital it simply doesn't *REALLY*
    matter in the marketplace, they buy the Company, it's products and the
    intellectual capital of it's workforce.  The logo's and brands simply
    identify us with what we do best.  We are a COMPUTER COMPANY folks,
    let's not forget that.
    
    Mav
    

re .14

Well said, Ashikin!

Every morning I hear the Cellular One commercial on the radio with it's "Go
digital" slogan -- it ain't us!  If the name Digital works in other parts of 
the world, great, let's use it.  But DEC works better on the left coast 
(Silicon Valley and Gatesland).  Use both names and spend our branding money 
on more commercials for our products.

			SQ

Re: -2

Really?  I thought there was an inititative to get people to stop saying DEC
in place, or at least an initiative to promote the Digital nameplate in
an effort to get people to stop saying DEC.

The point as I see it is this:

When the most powerfull man in the Industry gets up and introduces us
as 'DEC' to a lot of people who may have never even HEARD of this company,
we ought to rethink that initiative.

We are DEC now (and have been IMO)...and Digital...but not just Digital.

JMHO,

-Stephen

    Re: .15
    
    Imagine what fun the WSJ's "Marketing" column could have with this 
    story: 'DEC aka Digital - Recovering computer giant's identity crisis.'  
    
    Seems to me we should turn our confusion into a marketing tool.  
    This thread - and others - would be terrific source material.  
    
    Has this has been the _real_ branding strategy all along?  8^) 
    
    TT.

    From .21....
    
    >>The first item is that D.E.C. 'The Digital Equipment Company' ...
    
    Now isn't that a novel idea.  Change the company name to "Digital Equipment
    Company" (DEC for short) and everyone would be happy.  You'd still have
    "Digital" plus the valid abbreviation "DEC".  And... "Digital" would also 
    be  allowed as a truncated version. 
    
    Wait a minute, didn't Ken come up with this back in 57? 
    
    I wonder how much money has been spent since then on company name changes.
    
    -dave (a.k.a. "david"     a.k.a. "davey")
    
    
    
    
    

    So, next NEC will be calling themselves Nippon Electric Company, and
    everyone will wonder "who that be"

anybody look at the microsoft home page (www.microsoft.com) lately?  There is a
pointer to a story about their relationship with Digital (yes, they got it
right), but the name of the page is, you guessed it, ../dec.html!!! 

-mark

    
    How about these two points/ideas:
    
    1.	SystemHouse Ltd. (a  Canadian-based international system integration
    	and consulting firm) recently had to go through a very similar process. 
    	I believe they went both by SystemHouse and SHL, which confused lots of
    	folks.  Their solution was to *combine* the two in a single logo
    	" SHL SystemHouse Ltd.", and then to drop the name, leaving only
    	the initials SHL on their logo.  (Note that they did not use
    	SystemHouse ;^] .)
    
    
    2.	Some of the confusion seems to have been caused by our using part
    	of our name for a logo rather than the abbreviation/TLA:
    
    	-  International Business Machines is the name /  I B M  is the
    	    logo
    	-  Hewlett-Packard is the name /  H-P  is the logo       
    	-  General Electric is the name / GE  is the logo
    	-  SystemHouse Ltd. is the name / SHL  is the logo
    	-  General Motors is the name / GM is the logo
      	-  Texas Instruments is the name / TI is the logo
    	-  Etc.   
    	(In all the above, picture the corporate logo after the slash.)
    
    	-  Northern Telecom is the name / NorTel is the logo
    	-  American Oil Company is the name / AMOCO is the logo
    
    I have therefore concluded that we either:
    	(a)  Rework our logo (i.e., |d|e|c|  in the approved color), or
    	(b)  Create a new logo that is a contraction ( digequip ), or
    	(c)  Combine the two current symbols!
    
    For (c), picture the letters DEC as the background, with the
    |d|i|g|t|a|l| bar in the foreground.  the letters can be stylized in 
    several ways:
    	-  Think of a monogram: either diamond shaped or oval
    	-  Block letters with gradient fill, top to bottom
    	-  your choice ...
    
    There ... and it didn't even cost a consulting fee!
    
    Charles
    
     

    
    we could be Big Purple..

    
    ... but Big Burgundy is more alliterative, and Big Purple is already
        taken ...
    
    
    (by Barney)
    

                   Boston GLOBE, Thursday August 10, 1995, p. 35
    
                   NEW ENGLAND NEWS BRIEFS
    
                   Digital licenses praised in review
    
    "(Oh wow!  Someone likes our PAK architecture, or some more recent
      followon!  More good fallout from the Digital-Microsoft Alliance!)"
    
    NOT ... :-)
    
                   After a three-month probe into the
                   issuance of fraudulent driver's licenses,
                   the House Post Audit and Oversight Bureau
                   yesterday credited the Registry of Motor
                   Vehicles with cracking down on fraud by
                   converting to digital image licenses. 
                   The new licenses are printed on plastic
                   with a magnetic strip on the back, like a
                   credit card.  The driver's information
                   and photo are stored electronically in
                   the Registry database and can be called
                   up to verify that a license renewal
                   applicant is not an imposter.
    
                                 =========

Hi,

reading all these notes on the DEC vs. Digital, I remembered another 
discussion:  Before coming to Digital I worked for a major chemical 
company where an almost traditional feud between Project Engineering 
and Management existed because the first worked with DEC and VAX 
stations, the latter with these 'dumb' IBM terminals and PC's.

Having participated in a lot of feasibility studies in order to  
increase the sharing of project information between management and 
engineering, we had a lot of discussions concerning the diversity of 
equipment used. Engineering was in favour of moving everybody to 
DEC/Digital equipment, using the same argument over and over: 'with 
DEC you get the best'.

I was one of the 'others' since using IBM pc's. They (engineering) had 
a lot of fun when I resigned after accepting my job at Digital. Bottom 
line is that they always said/wrote DEC, but what counts is what those 
people thought DEC represented.

Here are some of their written comments which i stil favour (from   
November 1992):
-  ....., finally you choose DEC like all the sane people (read       
   Engineering).
 - The future is with DEC
 - Lot's of fun, succes etc. with DEC
....

Rgds,
Sonja

    Having spent several years in Asia I can assure you that in many places
    we are referred to as Dee Eee Cee (D.E.C.).  Acronyms are not common
    and digital equipment corporation is too long and hard to say.
    
    No reason we can't do both.  Tell marketing to spend their (our) money
    on advertising our products and services.
    
    I do remember the Beatrice attempt.  We should learn that lesson.
    
    ken b.

used to answer the phone "Digital Equipment."

So we have DEC, Digital, Digital Equipment, Digital Equipment Corporation,
and now Dee Ee Cee in Asia according to -1.

Great!

Ah nuts!!!!!  I just saw a vacum cleaner called a 'VAX' the other day too!!

-Stephen

    The other day I was meeting a seasoned buyer for the first time in 
    one of of my new accounts.  

    I introduced myself, asked some questions, made my pitch, all the
    time noticing her uneasiness.  She appeared confused, and finally 
    said, "Is Digital the same as deck?"  "Yes," I said.
    
    She smiled and all the tension left her face.  Her body language
    noticeably changed.  "Ya know, I thought so but I was never sure," she
    said.
    
    And I relearned another lesson:  customers want to make sure *who* you
    are first before they really start listening.  I don't think she heard
    much after my intro.
    

    Hi Kris --
    
    Interesting note.  Does this lesson, and others like it, make you tend
    to agree with the thrust of our Corporate Branding Program (which
    appears to me to be "eradicate DEC in favor of the (imho fatally/
    ridiculously generic) DIGITAL and DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION, but
    not to the extent of removing DEC from some product names"), or to
    disagree with it?  I can't really infer your position from this
    anecdote...?
    
    Dan
    

How about adding a small box to our ads:

	WE are Digital, but our friends call us DEC.

>Per

    Naw, too easy, makes too much sense, too cute, a marketeer didn't think
    of it, we didn't pay some outside consultant marketeer a king's ransom
    to think of it...
    
    ... no WAY!!!
    

Pay me a million bucks for that one and I'll quit (and then come back
with a higher salary as a consultant).

    re: .43
    
    Nice, Per. Very nice.

    
    
    How about we are the Digitaliest Digital of them all? 
    
    
    Sorry, it's Friday and my mind has left the building.....
    
    
    Mike

Imagine tring to sell DCE in Asia...

"Yes....er....that's Dee Cee Ee from Dee Ee Cee..."

B^)

God help Big Blue if they ever go back to "International Business Machines"

> Imagine tring to sell DCE in Asia...
>
> "Yes....er....that's Dee Cee Ee from Dee Ee Cee..."

Hey, it's even worse than that - we're about to integrate the Common Desktop
Environment (CDE) into Digital UNIX. 

The question might be:

"How does Dee Ee Cee integrate Dee Cee Ee into Cee Dee Ee?"  :-)

//steve

    Let's cut to the chase about this:
    
    	Several years ago we made a stupid decision about our corporate name
    and a branding campaign. And surprise, the decision has led to
    confusion and wasted opportunities. Now we can either do the smart
    thing and change that decision or go ahead and live with the mess.
    
    	Come on BP, wake up!

Let me relate something that happened to me over the weekend...keep in mind
that I'm just a youngin' (30) and my girl friend is even younger (25) and I
live out here in Seattle, remote by a lot of yer standards...one of Cari's
friends recently graduated from the University of Washington and she invited
us to a get-together out in a suburb to celebrate...there were probably about
25 people or so, average age about 27...many of them were recent graduates of
various Universities around the Northwest...

Small talk begins and as always, it turns to 'so...what do you do for a
living?', so I decided to stick with Digital...when asked, I said "I work
for Digital"...

"Hmmm....Digital Systems right?"  "No, Digital Equipment Corporation"  "Uh,
oh yeah! You make cellular phones and stuff" "Uh no...we're a big computer
firm, 3rd largest, you know...the Alpha Chip? Vaxes?" "Hey my Mom bought me
a Vax for graduation!!  It's great!! My old vacum sucked!!" (laughter) "I've
heard of the Alpha PC, it's a cell phone, my Dad bought one"  "No, we make
computers, some people call us DEC"  "Oh!!!  DEC!!!  Hey, can I give you my
resume?" "Me too!! I'm a CS major" "Me too!!"  "Yeah, you guys have some kind
of thing going with Microsoft, right?"  "Stephen! I didn't know you worked for
DEC!!  That's really cool!!"

-Stephen

    I can tell you how many times I've been faced with blank stares when
    I've told someone that I work for "Digital".
    
    "DEC", I tell them.
    "Ah... OK" is usually the reply.
    
    This will NEVER change.  The word "Digital" will never be just for us,
    whereas DEC is/was unique.  Everyone knows DEC.  "Digital" is just too
    ambiguous.
    
    -Steve
    
    

    
    	Let me add one thought -
    
    	We spent from 1957 to 1993 (do your own math) secretly promoting
    the whatever "DEC". We named products DECsomething, had a stock symbol
    DEC, even did three HUGE DECworlds.
    
    	Now, tell me again, who is Digital? And why should we care?
    
    	The thing that bothers me the most is we will then spend $8MM
    to *rename* ourselves DEC with a new logo and colors....
    
    	Meanwhile it is the 14th of August and the company's sales force
    still does not have a compensation plan. Do I hear the patter of
    big foot?
    
    		the Greyhawk

    In the article on the Gates/Palmer press conference, The New York Times
    used the name "Digital" a couple of dozen times.  The only place "DEC"
    appeared was inside the Gates quote.
    
    Same thing at The Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, etc etc etc etc
    etc....
    
    Get used to it.
    
    -----
    
    The annecdotal conversation you all never report....
    
    Dilbert-clone - "blah blah blah blah and that's why we recommend that
    we buy DEC."
    
    Decision approver - "I see where you come to that conclusion.  I just
    wish I had more confidence with these no-name computer makers.  We've
    had so many bad experiences with such vendors before."
    
    Dilbert-clone - "DEC is a 10 billion dollar company!"
    
    Decision approver - "I've never heard of them, they must make lots
    of non computer stuff to hit 10 billion."
    
    Dilbert-clone - "No, just computers."
    
    Decision approver - "Never heard of them, that makes me even more
    worried."
    
    Dilbert-clone - "You've never heard of Digital Equipment Corporation?"
    
    Decision approver - "Oh, Digital.  Why didn't you say so?  Just read
    some great stuff about what they are doing with Microsoft in the
    Wall Street Journal.  They've had quite the turnaround."
    
    								-mr. bill

Bill:

> {The NYT...] Same thing at The Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe,
> etc etc etc etc etc....

  You're reading too narrow a range of journals. Last week's
  "Business Week" identified us as "Digital Equipment Corporation"
  in the index, but called us "DEC" in the story. The trade rags
  routinely refer to us as "DEC".

  Why do you swallow our propaganda (about the alleged "success"
  of the rebranding effort) wholesale? Why don't you want to see
  a campaign that capitaliizes on the demonstrably broad name
  recognition of the brand "DEC"?

  By the way, we don't report that conversation because it
  essentially NEVER takes place. You're the only one who has
  ever reported its occurrence.

                                   Atlant

    Actually, Business Week has consistently put us as
    "Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC)" in their index.

    
    
    In my career here at Digital, I can't recall a time in dealing with
    customers when they said "This is Mike and he's from Digital".  I can't
    count the times I've had a customer tell a coworker that I'm from DEC.
    
    
    Mike

	Hi     
    
    		My customers still say "I have DEC on the line!"  I am
    tired of being asked when I day Digital, " Oh, do they make clocks or
    something like that?"  I now say DEC routinely.  It eliminates the
    questions and confusion right up front.  No one has a clue what
    "digital" is beyond a generic type of electronic device. Do we really
    want to continue being lost in the haze of terminology or do we want to 
    take back our identity as DEC?   I vote we take back our identity. 
    DEC!  
    
    
    	 ....Helen

IMHO, this is really a problem...brand name recognition is EVERYTHING.  The
fact that this issue gets pushed aside or ignored by a lot of people is
IMO just another symptom of our primary weakness, poor marketing.

It's a tough thing, you know...advertising costs money, cash money, and we need
all the cash we can get our hands on for the bottom line...I'm sure Prime
Time television ads are probably out of the question right now.

But as we begin retailing PC's, (Starion for example), the average person needs
to be able to readily recognize our brand name...this identity crisis we have
between Digital/DEC, IMO, can actually hurt sales of the Starion...as in we
can lose a sale to HP or Compaq on the show room floor because of this...

Does this concern anyone else but me?

-Stephen

|Does this concern anyone else but me?
    
    Yup.  And it should.  Everytime we the people who work for Digital call
    the company we work for "DEC" *WE* hurt sales.
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    Last time I checked, Bill Gates was not an employee of Digital.
    
    								-mr. bill

    re .60
    
    last year at my sister's wedding, her new father-in-law (a car
    mechanic), learning i am a employee of Digital launch into a 
    discussion with my, asking
    
       "why can't we make those grey displays brighter and more durable?"
    
    as he's always having to replace and repair them
    
    david .. another ambiguous name

DEC Open3D for DEC OSF/1
DEC PHIGS for DEC OSF/1 Systems
DECmessageQ
DEComni
DEC DB Integrator
DEC MAILworks
DECspin

    WHY ARE WE USING MAIL NODES DECWET?
    ARE WE STILL ON THE INTERNET AS DEC.COM?
    IF WE MERGE WITH MICRO SOFT. WILL WE BECOME
    DEC SOFT?
    
    PFS
    
    6:)

>    ARE WE STILL ON THE INTERNET AS DEC.COM?

We are both "dec.com" and "digital.com" on the Internet.

/john

    This DEC vs. Digital stuff comes up so often....For those of you
    who are unaware of why the change way made I refer you to topic 3904.36

    I like to consider the following analogy....

    A big company wants to change the flavor of their product. They
    do all kinds of tests which prove that the new taste is preferred
    to the old taste. So they replace the old taste with the new one.
    Guess what happens....everyone wants the old taste back!!
    In a short time the company re-introduces the old taste as
    well as the new one....soon after the new taste disappears and only
    the old remains.

    I'm talking about Coca-Cola. All kinds of surveys showed that people
    preferred "new" Coke to "classic" Coke, but sometime surveys are wrong.
    Coke realized they made a mistake and corrected it.
    As I own stock in Coke, I'm sure glad we don't have our branding people
    running Coke's product decisions. 

    					Ed

RE:   <<< Note 4033.62 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>

� |Does this concern anyone else but me?
�     
�     Yup.  And it should.  Everytime we the people who work for Digital call
�     the company we work for "DEC" *WE* hurt sales.
    
    With respect, and in my opinion, that statement is complete and utter
    rubbish. I assume you have some sort of backing for it.
    
    Incidentally, this discussion comes around and around and around. I've
    come to the conclusion that nobody that matters is listening. What to
    me and many others is as clear as day, seems to be all but impossible
    to grasp for those in a position to change things. In short, we're
    wasting our breath/keystrokes.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

|� |Does this concern anyone else but me?              
|�     
|�     Yup.  And it should.  Everytime we the people who work for Digital call
|�     the company we work for "DEC" *WE* hurt sales.
|    
|    With respect, and in my opinion, that statement is complete and utter
|    rubbish. I assume you have some sort of backing for it.
    
    Take a look at .61, the last two paragraphs again.  It's spot on.
    Take a look at 3904.36.  (One out of four of our *exisiting* customers
    thought Digital and DEC were two different companies!)  Now, what
    percentage of sales do *you* think we lose because of the Digital/DEC
    name thing?  0.01%?  0.1%  1.0%?  Higher?
    
    
|   I've come to the conclusion that nobody that matters is listening.
    
    I've come to that conclusion as well.
    But the people that matters are *US*.
    
    Listen, really, truly, listen for a moment.
    
    We are Digital.
    
    No amount of discussion here is going to change that simple fact.
    
    We are Digital.
    
    No retelling annecdotes here is going to change that simple fact.
    
    We are Digital.
    
    No amount of "DEC PHIGS this and DEComni that" (bonus points to the
    first noter who has a clue what a DEComni is) is going to change that
    simple fact.
    
    We are Digital.
    
    No every few months yet another rathole in the Digital conference is
    going to change that.
    
    We are Digital.
    
    
    So we *all* have two choices.  We can continue to fight our name at
    every turn because *each of us* have decided that we are DEC.
    
    Or we can concede the blatantly obvious.
    
    We are Digital.
    
    
    
    I just got back from downtown LA.  There were no blank stares when I
    told people I worked for Digital.  NONE!  OK, I exagerate.  One poor
    soul who should have been in Boston last week didn't know who Digital
    was, didn't know who Digital Equipment Corporation was, wouldn't have
    known who DEC was, but also didn't know who Sun or SGI were either.
    But they knew Apple, IBM (they designed the chips for the new Apples)
    and Hewlett Packard (they make some good printers).
    
    								-mr. bill

    >                         <<< Note 4033.73 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>
    >                                            -< Give Digital a try already.... >-
    
    >No amount of "DEC PHIGS this and DEComni that" (bonus points to the
    >first noter who has a clue what a DEComni is) is going to change that

    OSI Based Device Communication Protocol ?
    

    re: .73
    
    >Take a look at 3904.36.  (One out of four of our *exisiting* customers
    >thought Digital and DEC were two different companies!)  Now, what
    
    I just did.  There was no mention whether those 25% of our existing
    customers thought of us as DEC or Digital.  Your statement is
    meaningless unless you can show us that those 25% of our existing
    customers recognize us as Digital and not DEC.  If it's the other way
    around, you've provided very good evidence that we are wasting a lot of
    money to try and get people to call us Digital.
    
    Bob
    

:|� |Does this concern anyone else but me?              
:|�     
:|�     Yup.  And it should.  Everytime we the people who work for Digital call
:|�     the company we work for "DEC" *WE* hurt sales.
:|    
:|    With respect, and in my opinion, that statement is complete and utter
:|    rubbish. I assume you have some sort of backing for it.
:    
:    Take a look at .61, the last two paragraphs again.  It's spot on.
:    Take a look at 3904.36.  (One out of four of our *exisiting* customers
:    thought Digital and DEC were two different companies!)  Now, what
:    percentage of sales do *you* think we lose because of the Digital/DEC
:    name thing?  0.01%?  0.1%  1.0%?  Higher?

    We are neither Digital nor are we DEC, we are both.

    As long as we run away from one of our names (which was why we chose
    "Digital" -- the survey(s) the name change was based on were interpreted
    as saying we should run away from DEC), we will continue to confuse and
    confound our current and (hopefully) future customers.

    And no matter how hard some folks might push for the name change, it
    hasn't happened -- we're still using both names, we're insisting on
    an ambiguous name, and many of our customers will continue to use the
    unamiguous name.

    HP saw this, Coke saw this, FedEx saw this -- they each use and promote
    and associated *both* names with their corporations.  The HP, Coke and
    FedEx logos promonently feature *both* names.  As long as we insist on
    "we are Digital, not DEC", we will continue to confuse and confound
    our DEC-seeing customers.  We are neither Digital nor DEC, we are both.
    We cannot run from either name and the sooner we realize that, the
    better off we will be.

	--

    Being a good corporate citizen, I answer the phone with the official
    corporate mouthful -- and as long as the customers use another name
    for the corporation I work for, I will continue to confound them when
    doing so.

    I'll make a wager: in five years and in ten years, we will *still* be
    called DEC by many of our customers -- it took Nissan many years to
    switch over from Datsun here in the US, and they really worked at it.
    We haven't, and Nissan is are less ambiguous than Digital.

    > We are Digital.
    > We are Digital.
    > ...[10x]
    
    Not even a teensy weeny, Friday Happy Hour, ever so tiny wee bit DEC? :-)

  Even IBM made the switch. I saw a photo the other day of
  some ancient old tabulating machinery. (I believe this was
  during the PBS "Oppenheimer" program, depicting the creation
  if the first atomic bomb.) The tabulating machine said across
  its cover, very clearly, in an attractive script that was
  probably the gold leaf that was so popular back in that era:

                    I n t e r n a t i o n a l


  Are they still called "International"? Of course not! It's
  too generic, it's a mouthful, it's not a trendy acronym, and
  they'd probably be asked all the time if they made harvesters
  and trucks. By the time of the 1964 NY World's Fair, they were
  known primarily as "IBM".  (Remember the paviliion? It was in
  the form of a giant, elongated "Selectric" golf-ball typeball,
  covered completely with the letters "I", "B", and "M".)

  And now it's even they're legal name.

  Bill L-K, argue all you like, but I'd be willing to be you
  a year's pay that most folks in North America who are not
  employees of this corporation refer to us as "DEC" most of
  the time. Someday North American management will see that
  eliminating "DEC" was an error. Some day, they may even
  admit to their mistake. Some day, they may even correct
  their mistake. Let's hope our corporation lives that long.

                                   Atlant

||    With respect, and in my opinion, that statement is complete and utter
||    rubbish. I assume you have some sort of backing for it.
|    
|    Take a look at .61, the last two paragraphs again.  It's spot on.
|    Take a look at 3904.36.  (One out of four of our *exisiting* customers
|    thought Digital and DEC were two different companies!)  Now, what
|    percentage of sales do *you* think we lose because of the Digital/DEC
|    name thing?  0.01%?  0.1%  1.0%?  Higher?

Let us separate the issues here. We all seem to agree that the name
confusion is hurting us. However, what we do not agree upon is how
to fix this problem. IMO trying to change our name to Digital accross
the board is a waste of resources and I cannot see a better return on
that than simply acknowledging the fact that we can be called either
DEC or Digital. Even my office PC says Digital on the monitor but
DECpc on the box.

I suspect that DEC is probably deeper rooted into people's minds than
Digital (as a name for company, that is). By insisting we shall be
called Digital, and only Digital, you may be widening the confusion
rather than narrowing it.

>Per

RE: .73

With all due respect, Mr. Bill, you have stated the argument perfectly, but
have got it precisely backwards.

You say "We are Digital" and give good and sound arguments over why this entire
discussion is moot, irrelevant and ultimately a waste of time.

But you miss the point that "We are Digital" *only* to a few decision makers
in the GMA!  Every one of our field people knows that every one of our 
customers feels strongly that "You are DEC"!  Your points about "No amount
of discussion is going to change that simple fact" and "No retelling of
anecdotes is going to change that simple fact" and "No every few months of
yet another rat-hole in the Digital conference is going to change that simple
fact" are dead-on target, and we should all take a lesson from them, but the
base point that you are using those arguments for is simply incorrect.

As I stated before, *I* and all of the field people I know continually call
us Digital, except (and this happens every time I meet a new customer) when
I need to inform the customer who I represent using terms the customer
understands and is comfortable with: then I say DEC.

>|�     Yup.  And it should.  Everytime we the people who work for Digital call
>|�     the company we work for "DEC" *WE* hurt sales.
>|    
>|    With respect, and in my opinion, that statement is complete and utter
>|    rubbish. I assume you have some sort of backing for it.
>    
>    Take a look at .61, the last two paragraphs again.  It's spot on.
>    Take a look at 3904.36.  (One out of four of our *exisiting* customers
>    thought Digital and DEC were two different companies!)  Now, what
>    percentage of sales do *you* think we lose because of the Digital/DEC
>    name thing?  0.01%?  0.1%  1.0%?  Higher?

Doesn't this argue for the fact that we should work very hard to capitalize
on a brand name that already *has* brand name recognition, as opposed to 
blaming Digital employees for daring to speak to the customers in the way
that customers want to hear?  (And this may be obvious but I will say it
anyway just to make it unambiguous: I also believe that the feeling that
"everytime Digital employees call us DEC we hurt sales" is in fact rubbish.
Digital employees use word DEC when it is necessary to communicate with
customers in order to relate the company they already know to the name that
we insist on calling ourselves).
    
>    So we *all* have two choices.  We can continue to fight our name at
>    every turn because *each of us* have decided that we are DEC.
>    
>    Or we can concede the blatantly obvious.
>    
>    We are Digital.

The point here is that your argument is perfect, but precisely backwards.
We do *all* have two choices: we can continue to fight our name at every
turn because a small group of people in the GMA has decided we are Digital, 
or we can concede the blatantly obvious (to anyone who works with customers)
that we are DEC.

RE: your story about visiting downtown LA, and no blank stares when you said
you worked for Digital.  I accept that you didn't get blank stares back, but
a more important question is how many of those people who understood that
you work for Digital also understood that you work for Digital Equipment
Corporation, as opposed to Digital Communications magazine or one of the 
dozens of other companies whose name includes the word "Digital"?

-- Ken Moreau

P.S. The last time this came up I promised myself I wouldn't get trapped back
     in this rat-hole.  We are faced with a total dichotomy between two groups
     of people with no common ground beyond their shared commitment to have
     the company we all work for do well.  We each feel passionately about
     our respective position, and (unfortunately) neither side is listening
     to the other (and I include myself in this).  The field people insist
     that we try to say Digital but no customer does so, and the GMA people
     insist that they have valid date which shows otherwise.  Sigh.

     Everyone is emotional on this, and no one is even near changing their 
     position.  I will try again to keep my promise to myself not to write on 
     this subject anymore.  We will see if I can manage that.

This week-end at Elek-Tek (a mid-western Computer superstore chain), I
saw an array of monitors on display.  One of the more pleasing ones
had the name "digital" on it.  Off to the side of the array was a table
listing manufacturer, model number and price.  I scanned this list to see
how the "digital" monitor was priced, and was shocked to find it not listed!
As thoughts welled up in me of complaining to the store management about
displaying products and omitting their prices, I rescanned the price list,
only to find that there was a monitor from a company named "DEC".  In this
case, how the poor customer relates "DEC" to "digital" is a mystery.  Even
this 11-year digital/DEC employee almost missed the connection!

Ram

    Bill L-K, in the last few notes, others have said very eloquently what
    I intended to say. I remain convinced that DEC=d|i|g|i|t|a|l is the
    only sensible way forward.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

re: 79

>Even my office PC says Digital on the monitor but DECpc on the box.

just for laughs, I took a look at mine and it does too.  It also has a
colorado tape drive in it that is clearly marked

	Colorado T1000
	HP Hewlett Packard

so they got all 3 of their names on that one!

-mark

    
    My PC has a DIGITAL logo with DECpc below the logo. So we do at
    times connect the two (DIGITAL and DEC)...
    
    /Kjell

Well shoot...I feel pretty crummy about this whole thing.  I'm sure this
debate has raged on and on before as well...and many of you noters look at this
thread and shake your head and just don't contribute because it appears
pointless.

One thing that I try to do in notes is read every post (I admitt I scan the
'tome' replies quickly) and let opinions and viewpoints sink in, and in
some cases actually fuel a change in my own opinion.

Based on what I have read so far, this what I think should be done about this
problem, and *yes*, I do think this is a problem.

I like the trade marked Digital logo, I like the colors, I think it looks good
on hardware, and I like my tan button down shirt with the Burgundy logo on
it too...but I think we really need to acknowledge that we are also known as
DEC and quit trying to fight it...let's treat it as our 'nick-name', and
accept it for what it is, a term of affection...

Ever heard this before? Joe Customer: "I like DEC, I have always liked DEC!!"
John Customer: "I like Digital, I have always liked Digital!!"

I think that we have a window of opportunity here to tie the two names together
with print advertising...and ultimately cement brand name recognition between
the two name plates, and increase sales...Bill Gates and the trade rags have
givin us that opportunity...let's not let it slip thru our fingers!!

Digital=DEC  DEC=Digital

Let's do it!! C'mon!! Are ya scared?? I DARE YOU!!

-Stephen

                (-: Well, you *knew* I would haveta say it... :-)
                

    I HAVE THE ANSWER, IT CAME TO ME FROM 4033.73
    
    
    WHY DON'T WE CALL OUR SELVES, GET THIS
    
    digital equipment corporation....
    
    
    pfs
    
    6:)

    
     Almost two years ago... An easy problem to solve and still it goes 
     unsolved. Mr. Palmer, does this tell you something about the larger
     problems in this company?
    
     jc
    =--=
         <<< HUMANE::DISK$CONFERENCES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< The Digital way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 2568.192               Digital's new brand image                 192 of 283
CPDW::CIUFFINI "God must be a Gemini..."             21 lines  27-AUG-1993 13:35
        -< ... people outside the discipline have better insights ... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    The Beatles tackled this 'name' problem in the White Album when 
    in Rocky Racoon they sang ( and still do.. ) [ if my memory serves
    correctly ]
    
    $ start memory /out = note 
       ... her name was Magill
     but she called herself Lill
     and everyone knew her as Nancy....
    
      ... she and her man, who called himself Dan .... ( Dan K? )
    $ stop memory  
    
    The important thing here is that 'everyone knew her as Nancy'
    ... and more importantly, 'everyone'.
    
    jc
    
    p.s. How about D/igital              
                    E/quipment
                     C/orporation 
    

    4033.88
    ARE YOU IN THE MARKETING GROUP>>
    
    i like it
    
    PFS 
    
    :@) r
    

    ...this is too much fun...
    
    
    		d|i|g|i|t|a|l
    		e|quipment
    		c|orporation
    
    --first line and first column (of each line) in burgundy block
    lettering
    
    Randy
    

re .90

    		d|i|g|i|t|a|l
    		e|quipment
    		c|orporation
    
Works for me... you can read the whole thing just by looking at the
'p' in equipment...

/harley

    
    	Or the "o" in orporation.
    
    	
    	Which, I believe, is what happens to you when you get sick...
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

I actually wrote this a couple of days ago, but didn't post it - decided
to after all.  I strongly agree with the suggestions along the lines
of logos that connect Digital and DEC - it would be stupid to lose what
has been done on "branding", but it would also but extremely "unfortunate"
to continue to ignore the fact that MANY people still think of us as "DEC".

	    /D/i/g/i/t/a/l/
	   /E/quipment   /
	  /C/orporation /


>  -< The bottom line.... >-

>    Yup.  And it should.  Everytime we the people who work for Digital call
>    the company we work for "DEC" *WE* hurt sales.

Really?

It's interesting to see the significant difference between the FedEx
approach:

    - build on the name customers *already* use, which, in turn is...

    - short, and immediately recognizable regardless of context
      in a spoken word stream

and the Digital approach:

    - try to tell customers to use a new, longer name that is different
      from the previous commonly used form used during the company's
      history, and which is...

    - longer that the old form (3 syllables instead of 1), and which
      is *extremely* ambigious in spoken word steams without context.
      (It would be bad enough if it were an uncommon word, but given
      that it's so common, people seem to tend to tune it out - e.g.
      you may see ears perk up if the overhear "Intel" or "Microsoft"
      or "HP" or "IBM" or "SGI" or "Compaq" in a random stream of words.
      "Digital" will NEVER be do the same thing because there are so
      many "... digital ..." things that come up in random conversation,
      news stories, etc., particularly in anything technical.)  DEC,
      on the other hand IS like the others (it's at least unlikely
      to be ambiguous in technical conversation.)  It's also unambiguous
      compared to other company names (Digital Xxxx).

It's *particularly* ironic that we picked a new, different, name in light
of the long-standing problem that we had a number of previously existing
"core" names (DEC, VAX, PDP, etc.) that weren't known to be related
in the market, diluting recognition.  (When I was in school in the early
80s, a fellow CS major knew he liked working on the VAXes, but didn't
know that DEC built VAXes.  All too typical, and a problem that has
never really gone away, and Digital seems to have made the problem
worse in this specific area, not better.)  The fact that people have
pointed out in this stream that other people want to clarify that we
are in fact "DEC" shows exactly the ambiguity problem.  If someone
says "I'm here from Digital...", that could be basically ANY of
the "Digital Xxxxx" companies.  DEC, on the other hand, is a very
specifically a trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation and not
ambiguous...  (Aside - a number of people associated "DEC" with some
"bad old days" of some kind.  I guess I wasn't here long enough ago,
since, at least before the branding campaign, I personally strongly
associated "Digital" with "IBM-wanna-be", vs. DEC with a more vibrant
growth-oriented phase of the company - more along the lines of Microsoft,
Compaq, Sun, Intel...)

Anyway, when people continue to refer to you as DEC (that's certainly
the name most people I run into still use [must hang out with the wrong
crowd... ;-)] - in spite of a "Digital branding campaign"), maybe you
should re-think the approach.  (Of course, I'm "just" an engineer,
so maybe I just don't understand... ;-) )  Re-thinking could be as small
as recognizing that in fact customers use it, and to get the point across,
adds should include both to leverage recognition of the existing name,
to something more "radical".

All the indications are that Digital needs to be more "customer friendly"
and easier to do business with, not harder.  Trying to convince them
to use a name that's *more* ambiguous in conversation, etc., doesn't
(at least to me) seem like the path to long-term high brand recognition.

    According to my (somewhat deficient memory), when the official
    'Branding Program' was initiated, one of the main reasons was that if
    we didn't start using the name Digital more often, we would lose our
    Trademark for it as it was too generic.
    
    P.S ALL of my customers refer to us as DEC.
    
    Chris

I like .90 and .93 - I also like the earlier one which just had the

	|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|
	|e|
	|c|

bit - simple and clear (the way I like my beer).

I believe that our paying public need to recognise that we are BOTH brands.

Alan

    We've had one response (that I can recall) from someone involved in the
    branding campaign in question.  This person, quite rightly it seemed to
    me, was implementing the decisions made by his superiors.
    
    Given the newfound writership of this conference, I have to believe
    that some (well at least ONE) of those superiors is reading this
    string... :-)
    
    ...?
    

    ... and lest the default response be given "This non-issue is raised
    periodically in HUMANE::DIGITAL but you know *them*," please recall the
    incident described in .0, wherein the Richest Person on the Planet and
    a Close Corporate/Personal Ally of Whoever We Are rather sorta kinda
    reopened it...
    
    ...?
    

    > ...please recall the incident described in .0, wherein the Richest 
    > Person on the Planet and a Close Corporate/Personal Ally of Whoever 
    > We Are rather sorta kinda reopened it...

 .0 and all of us who watched the DVN must have misheard.  In the transcript
 of the Digital-Microsoft alliance DVN, now available in VTX LIVEWIRE, Bill
 Gates never said "DEC."  He said "Digital" more than twenty times, though. 

 - Jim

    
    re. .89
    
    Not in the marketing group; that should have been obvious. :-)
    In the ( wait.. I need to find our _new_ name... oops, I deleted 
      that mail... havta use the old one ) IM&T area.
    
    jc 
    

    
    	re: .98
    
    	If we have reached such an exaulted state as to "spin doctor"
    what Bill Gates actually said in his much publicized DVN with RP
    we are in much bigger trouble than previously thought.
    
    	Playing politics with each other is one thing, playing politics
    with the truth is another thing entirely.
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

Greyhawk....geez yer right...I can't believe we actually misquoted
Billg in VTX, and further more I have trouble convincing myself it
was just an oversight.

We've got problems folks....big problems.

-Stephen

    Imho funnier than disturbing, Greyhawk...  But nonetheless also, imho,
                                                                    PATHETIC.

    Hang on a minute, .98 You're telling me that rather than admit what is a
    self-evident truth, ie. DEC=Digital, that "they" actually altered Bill
    Gates' words in the VTX transcript?!!!??? Oh dear...
    
    Laurie.

	yikes! aren't there legal ramifications to changing his
	quotes? hope he doesn't mind; he could probably sue the
	pants off us..........

	_kelley

    
    Well, since the VTX "transcript" is clearly marked "FOR DIGITAL
    INTERNAL USE ONLY", Bill will never see the misquotes. Right?
    
    Anybody got a copy of the DVN broadcast I can borrow?
    

What amazes me is that if we went through the trouble of altering his
quotes why didn't we inject some more meaningful things ...

>Per

    Did we bracket the quotations or provide some other indication of the
    editing, or just blatantly misquote?
    
    If the truth is the latter, then what else in the transcript was
    editorialized, and how do we know exactly what was said and what was
    committed to?
    
    gc

>    Did we bracket the quotations or provide some other indication of the
>    editing, or just blatantly misquote?

Looks like the latter.  Did we hire an ex-Soviet spin doctor or what?

    Not a Soviet,  probably an ex investor relations guy from Data General
    
    8^)

Hey - the US Congress does this all the time to the Congressional Record,
including insertion of entire speeches never given.

					Steve

    
    	Thanks, Steve -
    
    	I guess that makes it alright. Sorry about the rathole, folks -
    
    	Back to your regularly scheduled topic...
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    are you guys lawyers?  Did Gates give a speech or a deposition under
    oath?  How do you know he said what you saw him say?  :-)
    
    Mark

    
    	Hey Mark -
    
    	Good. BTW, Judge Ito's job is up for grabs. Great TV exposure and
    the money ain't bad ;-)
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

Mark, uh....?

The thread here is about how we are ignoring the brand name recognition
associated with DEC?

The fact that DEC was changed to Digital kind of makes .0 a lie...now doesn't
it?  

$ set notes/attrib=readthreadfrombeginning *

-Stephen

    
    	On second reading of the LIVE WIRE text I just realized that RP
    *never* once called 'em Microsloppy, or Shortsoft, or any of my other
    favorite names.
    
    	Way to go, RP....
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    A true short story.....
    
    I come into work today and I have a voicemail from the CEO of my
    customer.  So naturally I call him back because he's a busy and
    important guy who makes some huge multiplier more than me and buys
    roughly $10M a year from us.
    
    One ringy dingy...
    
    	Two ringy dingy...
    
    		Three ringy dingy...
    
    "Hello Mr. X's office, how can I help you?"
    
    "Hi Peggy Jo, is Mr. X in?"
    
    "Yes, he is Bill can you hold one moment he's just wrapping up a call."
    
    "You bet, Peggy Jo..."
    
    10 second pause...
    
    "Hi Bill, how's things at DEC today?"
    
    By the way...
    
    Mr. X is Russ Gullotti one of the finest executives to have ever worked
    here.
    
    Like somebody said, "DEC" or "|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|" it's whatever the
    CUSTOMER wants it to be in order to identify you with what they already
    believe in their heart of hearts.
    
    And besides 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed know us as DEC.  The fifth
    never was really surveyed because no one can ever lay the claim that a
    100% of everyone agrees on only one way.
    
    Cheers-
    Mav

    
    Mav -
    
    	And that is that....
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

A few more post and this'll rival Bob's DVN topic!!!!

Then maybe the higher ups will read this....don't quit on me now!!!


B^)

    The pro-Digital faction has been awful quiet lately so here's
    a booster:
    
    4.5 BILLION PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET NEVER CALL US DEC!
    HOW CAN 4.5 BILLION PEOPLE BE WRONG?
    
    (In fact they don't call us anything but thats not the point :-)

    Several noters mentioned the problem with the DECproduct names
    like DECnet, DEC BASIC, DECmail, ...
    
    Why not just calling them D-products?  The "D" could than be interpreted
    freely either as DEC or Digital.
    
    Moreover, phonetically it would be read as "THE"-product, so DECmail
    becomes D-mail and is pronounced The-mail.
    
    

    
    For how long has our business cards had the DIGITAL logo? I've never 
    seen any business card from a Digital/DEC employee that said DEC. :-)
    
    If the customer has your business card and manages to contact you
    when they want DEC. Then they must at least be able to relate the
    DIGITAL logo with Digital/DEC...                        
    
    /Kjell
    

    I, for one, am NOT saying that we should *remove* "DIGITAL" from our
    business-cards, and I don't think Kjell is either.  Nope, I *like*
    driving past our Corporate HQ on my way home and seeing the Corporate
    Logo there.  There's a certain "pride in ownership" in having been
    first in the industry to claim "digital" as one of the words in its
    title... kind of like it used to be at BB&N -- the first person to
    claim a popular name, like [email protected], was marked as an old-timer,
    and smitha and smith1 and smithz had to settle for names that said they
    were parvenues.  It was cute... except it didn't work, as others have
    said earlier in another string, for those of us with UNcommon names.:-)
    
    What I *am* saying is that I'd like to see my business-card, and all
    our Corporate Advertisements, have a little squib with something like 
    
                             "Digital and DEC --
       two names for the same great products & the same proud history". 
    

    
    Thanks Dan,
    
    no I didn't want to imply that we should remove the logo. I just wanted
    to point out that we been DIGITAL for a long time TOO (at least if you 
    read the logo rather then just "see" it's visual charateristics).
    Infact I've always referred to the company as "Digital" since that is
    the way the people I worked with (before coming here) referred to it.
    
    Sorry if my poor "english" made it seem as I would like to see the 
    logo removed.
    
    /Kjell
          

    
    See note 4049.1, in which a Business Week article mixes nine references
    to Digital with six references to DEC.
    

    Edit it, QUICK!
    
    Laurie.

    OK all you lurkers, sign up...  at least for ONE note...
    Notes> sho prof/pers
    		Personal name:      "Stodgy Old Name I've used forever"
    Notes> set prof/pers="DEC: ReClaim TheName!"
    Notes> reply/notitle
    Me too!
    ^Z
    Notes> set prof/pers="Stodgy Old Name I've used forever"
    
    ... Or equivalent command for your client, or alternative substitute
        for the sentiment...  
    
    Or -- omit the resetting to StodgyHood until such time...
        

    
    I like it! Changed my mail header too.
    

    I think a whole lot of this furor could have been avoided, by spending
    some the 'rebranding' bucks and the trance-inducing commercials (that
    seem to have gone away) and instead of promoting a specific product or
    service, promote the company. Introduce the |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo to the
    world at large, not just to a small minority who know good computer
    stuff when the see it.
    
    I like the concept of using |d|e|c| vertically under the |d|, and
    spelling out digital Equipment corporation under the |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|.
    Let's do some generic tv stuff rather than saying "We have the fastest
    best, coolest gizmo's. Let's put it on tons of stuff to give away when
    we sponsor the "Digital Equipment 500" at New Hampshire International
    Speedway.
    
    And last but not least - a lunchtime (yesterday) story...
    
    (me, eating my brown-bag lunch in the State University breakroom)
    Overheard: "Boy, the system is *slow* today, I wonder why?"
    (me, and my |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| badge being noticed)
    "Hey - there's the DEC guy, ask him!"
    
    These folks are *users*, not really even 'customers' per-se, as they
    just use the services, not buy or influence to buy.
    If these folks know us as 'DEC' then to them I will always be the 'DEC
    guy'. The sooner we capitalize on that fact the more successful we will
    be. 
    
    .mike.
    

Well, I Digitallare!  I think y'all are just a bit too paranoid.  I Digitalry the claim
that there is some Digitalrepit organization that Digitalided to edit everything anybody
writes about Digital.  We're too Digitalentralized for something like that.  I can say 
Digital if I Digitalide to.  There's nothing Digitaladent about it.  No big Digitaleption.  I 
mean, we've been using Digital on Digitalals for Digitalades.  And, not just on equipment 
but also on Digitalorative watches, pens, Digitalanters and so forth.  It's not like 
the use of Digital is Digitaleased, especially since we still use Digital when we name our 
products.  And we make some pretty Digitalent products!  We all just need to 
lighten up and all work together to bring the business out of Digitalay and
Digitalline.  Let's Digitalimate the competition!

Steve

DECguy, DECgal, DECpet.

Note 4033.131                    DEC not Digital                      131 of 132
NETCAD::SHERMAN "Steve NETCAD::Sherman DTN 226-6992" 12 lines  17-AUG-1995 13:36
                    -< I won't Digitalline to comment ... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, I Digitallare!  I think y'all are just a bit too paranoid.  I
    Digitalry the claim that there is some Digitalrepit organization that
    Digitalided to edit everything anybody writes about Digital.  We're too
    Digitalentralized for something like that.  I can say Digital if I
    Digitalide to.  There's nothing Digitaladent about it.  No big
    Digitaleption.  I mean, we've been using Digital on Digitalals for
    Digitalades.  And, not just on equipment  but also on Digitalorative
    watches, pens, Digitalanters and so forth.  It's not like the use of
    Digital is Digitaleased, especially since we still use Digital when we
    name our products.  And we make some pretty Digitalent products!  We
    all just need to lighten up and all work together to bring the business
    out of Digitalay and Digitalline.  Let's Digitalimate the competition!

Steve  
                       ===== An Instant Classic, Steve! =====
                                                              
  ===== and OBTW, I changed my personal_name in honor of your note!  :-) =====

    I feel Like I am watching the saturday morning cartoons with my kids..
    
    
    
    
    Rick

And I feel like that at any moment all the 'DEC's in my posts
are going to magically become 'Digital'.

-Stephen

InDigitalent!  Almost inDigitalipherable.

___Pete

    
    What happens if Bill gates punches RP in the nose?
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    He's all DEC'd out.
    

re: DVN transcript being changed...

The change from "DEC" to "Digital" in the Microsoft DVN transcript
was an intentional act in order to accomodate the branding campaign
within our company.  The manager of internal publications used
"editorial license" to keep the transcript consistent with the
stated company policy to refer to this company as "Digital".  The
manager views this as a "minor thing" and made this decision
independently, feeling that the intent of the message was not altered.

Ray Kopacko

The powers that be in this company are unwilling to accept the
reality that we are both Digital *and* DEC.  I think it is
ridiculous to insist on Digital only.  Many others have stated
the case much better than I can.  Another good example of company
leadership that is out of touch.

Ray

    re: .138
    
    Well, then it isn't a transcript.  Either give us a real transcript, or
    put out a disclaimer that it has been edited for content.
    
    Bob

    Just accomodating the title of this note string to the branding
    campaign...

    Perhaps the "manager of internal publications" should converse with Mr.
    Gates on how he feels about having his own words subject to the
    "editorial license" of the former.  As internally modified, this is NOT
    A TRANSCRIPT and should be so labeled.  IMHO, changing a strategic
    partner's comments to be "consistent with company policy" is bad
    business, period.

    In yesterday's Atlanta Constitution, Office Max had a full page ad on
    computer gear.  In the middle was the
    
                       DEC LA printer
    
    No mention of the word Digital.

re .138,

Where does he think he is, Washington DC?

:^),
/harley

*Bottom of jaw bruised from hitting the floor*

Good thing I'm just a member of the troops managing systems...
'cause if anyone ever did that to something I said, I might just be sitting
in the County Jail, or layed out on the floor seeing stars...

Cause I'd certainly be fighting the urge to punch the guy who looked me in the
eye and told me he exerted his 'editorial license' and changed something I said
in a supposed 'transcript' square in the mouth...

-Stephen

    Headlines on the cover of the June issue of Computer Shopper:
    
    "Digital Cameras Go Mainstream"  and
    
    "DEC's Sensational Celebris XL590 Tower"
    
    I'm glad to see that we're finally getting serious about our camera
    business.  On the other hand, I wish we could make a sensational PC
    product as this company 'DEC' does.

    I wonder if the DVN tape will also be edited.
    
    

    why don't we just start a rumour that Digital is in the proccess of 
    a takeover of DEC.   Maybe DEC's stock would jump (+:}
    

    re .147 -- no, BLEEPed out.  Kinda hard to get a public speaker who's a
               close match to the golden tones of TRMITW�.  So, the plan is
               to dub the dupes (pun intentional) with a hand on the Bleep-
               Button.  The result will be inBLEEPent and almos inBLEEP- 
               ipherable but our Corporate Figleaf *WILL* stay in place!
    
    re .148 -- see .15, & try to keep up eh??? :-)
    
    =======
    
    � TheRichestManInTheWorld
    

    	I like .148's idea . Sure could use the extra money .
    
    Frank

    BUSINESS WEEK: April 1, 1996
    DEPARTMENT: Information Processing/COMPUTERS
    "BUY-OUT OF DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION"
    
    In a surprize move, Digital Equipment Corporation CEO Bob Palmer
    announced that it had been bought out by DEC, the Maynard based PC
    manufacturer, one of Digital's largest competitors. The news was
    received well by the markets and Digital stock soared to $210 1/2,
    while DEC stock slipped 1/2 point to 10 3/4.  Additional anaysis of
    this move can be found on page 118 - Editorial.
    
    

    I don't buy it; Business Week would know how to spell "surprise".
    ;-)

I feel Digital is going to have a huge problem in OZ. Telstra (one of our main
telecom providers) has just initiated a campaign to sell more digital phones -
we get rid of our analogue phones by 2000. 'digital' is used both as an 
adjective and a noun. Hence the ads refer to using a 'digital' as well as buying
a 'digital' phone. 'digital' and 'digital phone' are used interchangably 
throughout the ad. In the foreseeable future, in OZ, a 'digital' will refer to
a mobile phone. 

My experience is that our current customers know us as DEC and that is how I am 
introduced by customers. Of course, I always introduce myself as being from
Digital Equipment Corporation, then fall back to DEC when I see the blank 
stares.

rgds ted

    ... as their marketeers were deciding on the wording of their campaign.  
    
    "OK Colin, we'll go with the notion that we should call all phones
    'digitals' and/or 'digital phones.'  Great concept!  Cuts to the quick
    of the difference between this new technology and what we want to
    supplant!  I have the feeling that there's a pay rise in YOUR future!"
    
    "Well, that's really *fine,* John.  Still and all, there is ONE risk I
    think you should know about, as VP of Marketing for our Oz ops.  That
    is the American company, you know, they call themSELVEs 'Digital.' 
    They've a big advert budget, and they keep pushing that name -- They
    could make it a bit sticky..."
    
    "Oh, you mean DEC?  Never you mind about THEM, Colin.  Why only the
    other day I heard Bill Gates refer to them repeatedly not as 'Digital'
    but as DEC.  They can't make it stick...  No, it's a universal
    adjective by this time, and they can't possibly control it.  Full steam
    ahead, Tally-Ho, and all that -- make us proud, Colin!!!"
    
    "Yes SIR!"
    

    I've really enjoyed this note and in a conversation about it I observed
    that at least my internet address still includes ".dec.com". In
    response I was told I should be using ".digital.com".

    Really? As far as I know GATEWAY.DOC is the official word and it uses
    ".dec.com". 

    - Bob

	re: -.1

	the dec.com and digital.com domains are one-in-the-same...

	_kelley

Re: .156

No, they are NOT the same, and the e-mail addresses are still in .dec.com.
There was a lot of discussion about this in the GATEWAYS notesfile some time
ago (in fact, I think I started the topic.)  The message I came away with was
that e-mail addresses would remain .dec.com unless an until a corporate
e-mail address strategy based on X.500 came about (see recent discussion in
INTERNET_TOOLS.)

					Steve

	uggg, damn my crusty memory but yer probably right Steve...I read
	both of those discussions as well but my brain signalled that
	by now the crossover was supposed to have been finished....anyway
	ignore .156; I'll look up the correct facts...

	_kelley

	Steve, your note in UPSAR::GATEWAYS (fyi: thread 2054.*) is 
	almost 2 years old! I knew I remembered reading that an effort
	was underway, but didn't remember the estimates of how long
	it would take (5 to 10 years!)...I can also see how you linked
	the threads in your head; they both contain the oft discussed
	"[email protected]" ratholes.....an offical looking response
	for the venerable Brian Reid is attached below...

	_kelley

             <<< UPSAR::USER$411:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GATEWAYS.NOTE;4 >>>
              -< Gateways between the EASYnet and other networks >-
================================================================================
Note 2054.5         "dec" domain name changing to "digital"?             5 of 31
QUABBI::"[email protected]" "Brian Reid"               11 lines  10-NOV-1993 00:31
               -< Re: "dec" domain name changing to "digital"? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Corporate Identity group wishes to have our company known as Digital and
not as DEC. It will probably take 5-10 years to finish the conversion, if we
ever finish. As part of this, they want Internet names that are presented to
customers to be in digital.com and not in dec.com

We are expecting that actual computers owned by actual people will stay in
dec.com for a long time. As Jeff points out, you can run things in parallel.
However, the conversion from foo.dec.com to foo.enet.dec.com was run in
parallel for almost 4 full years before the foo.dec.com was finally turned
off.
[posted by Notes-News gateway]

In other words, yet another case of the Powers That Be
insisting on "digital" and being ignored.

dave  ([email protected])

    DEC
    --- 
    Pros 
    - unique
    - already well established
    - short & snappy
    - easy on the tongue
    - catchy 

    Cons 
    - DEC has 3 letters like in KEN 
    - people may confuse DEC computers with cassette decks, playing cards
      and swimming pools

                      Yay, it does!  Tnx ::SAXENA!!  (Vic?)
    

    The German Manager Magazin, September edition, has a longish article
    about "DEC". The author used the acronym DEC dozens of times, 
    including in the sub-headline. They used __only__ DEC  -  but once,
    when they cited Bob Palmer. And I guess many people read the article
    and asked "why is this guy talking about Digital when the article is
    about DEC" ... ;-)
    
    Tsch��
    Regina

    .162
    
    How about a DEC Anthem Dr. Dan !

    Just ran into the DEC vs Digital thing today.  I had called X/Open to
    get information on ordering a spec. and when I told him I worked for
    Digital he sorta hesitated for a moment and said "Oh, yea..DEC...DEC is
    easier."
    
    Ciao
     Steve

Interview with Harold Copperman...

Entitled: "Interview with DEC's Harold Copperman" (see PC Week on the net)

Hmmm...if THAT DEC somehow magically turns into "Digital's"...

B^)

    
    Harold, Harold????
    
    	Got to love it....
    
    		the Greyhawk
    

    My personal, purely hypothetical theory:  Our VP Harry Copperman
    actually DID give the interview to PC Week, but then realized in horror
    after the fact (having read the unbowdlerized transcript of the
    conversation) that he had forgotten himself & said DEC a couple of
    times (under the influence all of our recent exposure to Bill Gates'
    Reality Distortion Field, doubtless) and then begged the PC Week
    reporter for a shred of deniability...  Hence Harold.  Q.E.D.
    
    (Perhaps I might have said "Bill Gates's Reality Intensification
    Field"?  But -- Heaven forefend! -- that would be disloyal.)
                                        

    
    Re .98 and following:
    
    Well, I was too curious to let this go, so I got a copy of the DVN
    broadcast and compared it to the announcement text in VTX. The results
    are in
    
      WLDBIL::WLDBIL$PUBLIC:DEC_MICROSOFT_VTX_EDITED.TXT (with notes on
        difference between VTX text and DVN tape)
    
      WLDBIL::WLDBIL$PUBLIC:DEC_MICROSOFT_VTX_ORIGINAL.TXT (original VTX
        text)
    

	yikes! what a hatchet job!! IMHO the "editor" did much more harm
	than good...if I were BP or BG, I'd be steamed...for example,
	please explain to me what "conductivity software" is!!!

	_kelley

    .170> please explain to me what "conductivity software" is!!!
    
    Your best bet on this would imho be VP Harry COPPERman...
    
    :-)
    

    LJSRV2=>sho def
      USER2:[KALIKOW]
    LJSRV2=>copy WLDBIL::WLDBIL$PUBLIC:DEC_MICROSOFT_VTX_*.TXT */log
    %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening
    WLDBIL::WLDBIL$DKA100:[WLDBIL_PUBLIC]DEC_MICROSOFT
    _VTX_*.TXT; as input
    -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation
    LJSRV2=>
    
    ???
    

    
    Re .172: Try it without the wildcards.
    

This thread prompted from a post I put in PC Weeks Spencers Katts
discussion group:  

*Note: for full affect read from the bottom up*

********************************************************
     Don't worry about it Stephen - you can post that to NOTES (if that's 
     what you're using - they had it in Kanata) if you like.  To be honest 
     it's nice to feel that it may actually be *read* by someone.
     
     Yeah, I'd like to learn more about the chips too, actually.  If you 
     find a good book I'd appreciate it if you could drop me a note.
     
     Thanks for the interesting insights on DEC; I'm just new to the 
     industry here, but it's been exponential growth in PCs since the 1975 
     MITS Altair was introduced (with Microsoft BASIC), and there's no end 
     in sight for decades, thanks to likes of the Alpha.  We will 
     definitely change the world.  (I LOVE that feeling...)

        Hey - if you're across the street from MSoft, does that mean you'll be 
        visiting their fairgrounds today? <Grin>

        Eric


***********************************************
Eric, hey look your *right on* with most of this mail,
and with your permission I would like to post it in
one of our internal bulletin boards...we have a raging
internal discussion going right now about our marketing
and stuff...

I am a humble systems manager, I manage systems for
an Engineering wing called DECwest, we are basically
across the street from Microsoft.  I am a new hire to
Digital and feel the same way you do...but understand that this company is 
undergoing TREMENDOUS change, and
it's taking it's toll on us, but we are winning this
war...

You know what? I hate VAXES too...because of what they
represent...geez Eric they are fantastic systems to work
on, they really are...built like tanks, cluster them
together and you got THE most robust system you can
buy, period.  BUT, they are really high margin systems and Digital bloated up on 
the profits and almost killed
themselves long term for doing it.

Enter ALPHA...now, we are talking some REALLY exciting
bleeding edge stuff.  And in my opinion, with PCI bus
as the bus architecture...bar none, the best damn system
you can buy today...as much as I love NT, you simply
gotta run Digital UNIX on the chipset...it's native
64 bit O/S on a full blown 64 bit chip...actually,
I don't pretend to be a chip guru or anything, only that
I know that we have the worlds only 64 bit chip...or the
others are just starting on theirs...at any rate, if you
NEED 64 bits right now you go to Digital for it. Period.

Now...let's see...oh yeah...no slamming intended on the
return mail...and to be honest with you, I really did
not want to fall into an Operating System rat-hole on
Kats discussion group, and I admitt, I was being a bit
of a smart-@ss with my post...but at least I sign
my name to my posts!!  The fact that we are having this
discussion is a good thing, I think, and proof positive
that computers, whatever their chipset, are bringing
people like you and me together to share ideas and to
affect one another...I for one am very excited about 
being in this industry, as we stand to change the world in such a profound way.

Anyway, yes, you can dual boot an Alpha system...NT/UNIX, (OpenVMS for that 
matter) but only one O/S can run at a time.  If you indeed have a genuine
need to run UNIX and NT, then a low cost Alpha workstation would be an EXCELLENT 
choice for your
next system purchase.

Again, no slamming intended here at all, and both of
us should probably get clearer on chip architecture...
hmm...bet I can buy a book or something...anyway...

Remember, we make fantastic Intel products as well...
personally I think our Business Strategy is sound, very
solid in terms of the 'long-term' view.  We are pared
down now, lean and mean, make really great hardware
products, are starting to develop great software that
we will sell on it's own merit (meaning we won't try
to sell a box with it) and hold the technology lead
in several areas...

We just need to market ourselves better...

All things considered, not a bad problem to have.
For what it's worth, I scream whenever I get the
chance for better marketing.

From a technical perspective, there isn't another company I would rather work 
for...and that includes our
neighbors across the street.

(I did actually work for Microsoft as a contractor)

Keep in touch, and let me know if I have your permission
to share this with some folks internally here.

Cheers!

-Stephen

**************************************
Eric wrote:

I realise about the $4995 (I read the PC World interview with your big 
guy, I have a friend who worked at the Kanata head office (that's in Canada))  
I'm glad you pointed out Digital UNIX is the only 64-bit OS - - I knew you had 
one, just didn't know if it was VMS or UNIX.  I know about the 10*10*10-fold 
increase in Alpha's processing power that's been mapped out - that's why I'm 
interested.  I must admit I never bothered to look at your address, so I didn't 
know you were from DEC.  That's why I emailed a simple reply to what I thought 
was an honest question.

        I get the impression you think I don't know about Digital's strengths.  
To the contrary, I am impressed by the technology but fundamentally disappointed
in Digital's exploitation of it.  To younger folks like myself (I'm 20) Digital 
sounds like a dinosaur from the past, except for the Alpha and I take it the 
64-bit UNIX.  Digital's older SI business made it seem closed; I welcome the 
emphasis on open systems.  (How is Digital UNIX when it comes to object 
technologies, like OpenDoc?) The Microsoft pairing and "most favoured nation" 
(as your boss put it) is the first real reason I've seen from my side of the 
fence to bother with Digital at all.  I hate VAXes.

        I might be a bit confused about the processors, but you confirm my 
suspicions in your email.  PowerPC *is* 64-bit, "but only in AS/400".  Whatever 
- it's there.  About the Pentium I admit I might be confused if they have dual 
32-bit channels or something like that.  When I saw the initial explanations of 
the technology in BYTE, I'm certain they were talking about 64-bit addressing or
processor-direct communication with the memory subsystems...  And you say MIPS 
might be there too; it wouldn't surprise me.  

        In short - I agree: Digital is the leader in 64-bit solutions.  So get 
the hell out there and do something!!  Don't just leave cryptic messages in OS 
discussions and make people guess (I'm informed, I know Digital's got the 64-bit
stuff, but I didn't even know it was UNIX and had no real desire to find out: 
it's just from Digital...).  Heck, post a reasoned message pointing out why 
everyone's discussion is over an OS that's already passe.  Everyone's yapping 
about 32-bit OS's like they're awesome or something, it annoys me to no end.  
But who's really there to point out the 64-bit answer???  I've only really heard
about it because I'm interested.
        What I want is a way to skip to the next battle - I don't want to 
upgrade to a 32-bit system when I can get a 64-bit system... (I'm speaking as a 
university student planning on making a major computer purchase in the next 
year)... If I go Digital UNIX I should be mostly happy, I guess; can I dual-boot
NT so I can actually run the apps I want?  I will use the UNIX for CS courses, 
have no fear.  There's some inexplicable hesistancy to go for it - bill it as 
the future, NOW...

        Sorry, I don't know why I'm venting on you; unless you happen to be the 
head of marketing ;)  All I can say is: c'mon man!  Don't chastise me because I 
insinuated DEC isn't the only 64-bit player (just the major one), because it 
just adds to the negative perception of DEC as a bunch of guys who may have 
great technology, but who wants to buy from them?  You've still got a chip on 
your shoulder because MS and IBM before them got all the computing industry 
spotlight.  And Intel just quietly racks up more profits than almost anyone 
else.

        You have a 3.5 lead?  Think about where you're going to be when it ends.
 Apple had about a 5 year lead on Windows, 10 years by some measures, and their 
OS is just a niche market (though filled with dedicated believers, their ranks 
are thinning compared to the overall pie)


        Eric
*****************************************************
Subject: Re: Hmmm...I wonder if any body sells a 64 bit O/S?
Author:  [email protected] (Surfin' with the Alien) at Internet-Gateway
Date:    8/22/95 3:02 PM


Hi Eric...yes *we* do, it's called Digital UNIX.
     
I think your a little confused on chip architecture...
     
Digital is currently the *only* company that sells a 
64 bit system with a 64 bit Operating system.
     
PowerPC is 32 bit, MIPS is 32 bit, Pentium is 32 bit, 
P6 is 32 bit...etc, etc.
     
I think that MIPS does have a 64 bit chip but no O/S 
for it...so you can't really buy a system with it, or 
if you can, they are very high priced systems, the 
PowerPC has a 64 bit chip...but it's in AS/400's...Intel 
won't be 64 bit until P7, even then, no O/S.
     
Bottom line?
     
Digital is the only vendor on the planet with a 64 bit 
solution *shipping* today, and we have a 3 1/2 year lead 
on the rest of the industry in this space.  The Alpha 
chip is currently undergoing it's 5th generation and 
rumor has it that this chip has run at 500mhz in the 
labs.
     
500mhz!!  Also, the chip architecture has the ability 
to scale upwards for at least the next 20 years, while
other vendors chips have reached physical limits...hence 
all major Vendors are just now moving to a different 
technology for 64 bits, we did it back in '91.  It is 
entirely feasible that the Alpha chip will be running
at 1000mhz by the year 2000.
     
Incidently, you can buy an Alpha workstation running 
Digital UNIX starting at $4995.00.
     
-Stephen



*************************************

     I think DEC does - heck, with the Alpha chip as blindingly fast as it 
     is, I can't see why they wouldn't have a 64-bit OS to use it properly.
     
        Makes you wonder what all the fuss is about over the 32-bit 
     systems.  The Pentium's 64-bit, so's the P6, so's Alpha, PowerPC and 
     probably MIPS.  The only reason to care about 32-bit is legacy apps; 
     and there aren't really that many out there!  isn't it the 16-bit Win 
     3.1 programs that suppposedly everyone can't live without?>
     
        Eric


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Hmmm...I wonder if any body sells a 64 bit O/S?
Author:  [email protected] at Internet-Gateway
Date:    8/22/95 1:27 PM

re: .174

    Thanks Stephen for posting that and spreading good word about DEC on the
    internet. Keep it up.
    
>        In short - I agree: Digital is the leader in 64-bit solutions.  So get 
>the hell out there and do something!!  Don't just leave cryptic messages in OS 
>discussions and make people guess (I'm informed, I know Digital's got the 64-bit
>stuff, but I didn't even know it was UNIX and had no real desire to find out: 
>>it's just from Digital...).  Heck, post a reasoned message pointing out why 
>everyone's discussion is over an OS that's already passe.  Everyone's yapping 
>about 32-bit OS's like they're awesome or something, it annoys me to no end.  
>But who's really there to point out the 64-bit answer???  I've only really heard
>about it because I'm interested.
    
   Anyone know why DEC does not like to advertise ??

    .176> Anyone know why DEC does not like to advertise ??
    
    Why would you care...  Them's the other guys.  
    
    We'z DIGITAL, and we DO advertise.  Just ask Bill Troy!! :-)
    

                            The Mary Ellen Carter

    She went down last October in a pouring driving rain
    The Skipper, he'd been drinking and the Mate, he felt no pain.
    Too close to Three Mile Rock and she was dealt her mortal blow
    And the Mary Ellen Carter settled low.
    There was just us five about her when she finally was awash
    We'd worked like hell to save her, all heedless of the cost
    And the groan she gave as she went down, it caused us to proclaim
    that the Mary Ellen Carter would rise again.

    Well, the owners wrote her off; not a nickel would they spend.
    "She gave twenty years of service, boys, then met her sorry end."
    "But insurance paid the loss to us, so let her rest below,"
    Then they laughed at us and said we had to go.
    But we talked of her all winter, some days around the clock,
    For she's worth a quarter million, afloat and at the dock.
    And with every jar that hit the bar we swore we would remain
    And make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again.

    Rise again, rise again, that her name not be lost
    	to the knowledge of men 
    Those who loved her best and were with her to the end
    Will make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again.

    All spring, now, we've been with her on a barge lent by a friend.
    Three dives a day in a hard hat suit and twice I've had the bends.
    Thank God it's only sixty feet and the currents here are slow
    Or I'd never have the strength to go below.
    But we've patched her rents, stopped her vents, 
    	dogged hatch and porthole down
    Put cables to her, 'fore and aft and girded her around
    Tomorrow, noon, we hit the air and then take up the strain
    And make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again.

    Rise again, rise again, that her name not be lost
    	to the knowledge of men 
    Oh, those who loved her best and were with her to the end
    Will make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again.

    For we couldn't leave her there, you see, to crumble into scale
    She'd saved our lives so many times, living through the gale
    And the laughing, drunken rats who left her to a sorry grave
    They won't be laughing in another day...

    And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
    With smiling bastards lying to you everywhere you go
    Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
    And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again!

    Rise again, rise again -- though your heart it be broken
    	and life about to end
    No matter what you've lost, be it a home, a love, a friend
    Like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.

    ==============

    Copyright � 1979 Fogarty's Cove Music
    From "Stan Rogers -- Between the Breaks... Live!"
    CD, FCM-002D
    Reproduced without permission 
    (but I don't think Stan Rogers would mind)

4033.164 AQU027::SAXENA>  How about a DEC Anthem...

OK... happy to oblige...

               The "Yankee Clipper," DEC, Shall Rise Again...
               ===============================================
               With Apologies & Thanks to the late Stan Rogers
               ===============================================

    We hit the shoals in '89 in a pouring driving rain
    The Skipper, he was out of touch, the VPs were playing games...
    And we were losing market share, an almost fatal blow
    And the "Digital Equipment" settled low.

    One-twenty K aboard our DECs when we were deep awash
    We'd worked like hell to build her, but now would pay the cost --
    As sixty thousand walked the plank, the survivors did proclaim
    that Digital Equipment would rise again.

    The ghouls of Wall Street wrote us off; no more would they invest.
      (but they'd forgot our brains and Alpha, which still remained the best!)
   "We milked your cows for thirty years, now it's on to Sun & Hewlett-
    Packard, boys, you're cooked; you've got no more juice to fuel it!"
    But we hawked & hacked five winters thru, some days around the clock,
    For we're worth Eleven Billion, afloat and at the dock.
    And with every jar that hit the bar we swore we would remain
    And make Digital Equipment rise again.

    Rise again, rise again, that our name not be lost
    	to the knowledge of men
    Those who loved her best and were with her to the end
    Will make Digital Equipment rise again.

    Six years now, we've been laboring to turn our ship around...
    Our first skipper's out to pasture, his early glory crowned
    by new blood & new technologies.  There's a new hand at the wheel.
    Our hard-nosed Captain Palmer has steered with nerves of steel
    past shoals and shallows we thought sure would sink us yet
    to following winds, silicon speed, and open seas of Internet!
    In '96, we'll hit the air -- and with just one more year of strain
    we'll make Digital Equipment rise again!

    Rise again, rise again, that our name not be lost
    	in the annals of computing...
    We WILL all take our pleasure, our obits all refuting!
    Oh, those who loved her best and have stuck with her till now
    Will make her DECs shine again -- and take another bow.

    For we couldn't stay down there, you see, and crumble into dust
    We'd come in FIRST so many times, it's hard to lose that lust!
    And the laughing, lordly brokers who left us to a sorry grave
    They won't be laughing in another day...

    And to our friends back on the shore who could not stay aboard
    our wavewashed DECs:  We want you all to know that we abhorred
    the feckless board that brought us low, and that you will remain
    'mongst hearts and minds and arms of we who wipe DECs dry again!

    Rise again, rise again -- though our hearts they are sore,
    	this "death" spiral's near its end!  
    No matter what we've lost, be it pride, or worse -- our friends --
    This "Yankee Clipper," DEC, WILL rise again.

                               ==============

    Love it - this should go out on the front of our mags, all over
    Internet and probably be up on the screens at Wall St...
    
    Alan
    

Well, today I was down at the security office signing in a new contractor,
and while I was waiting for them to shoot her picture, my eye was caught by
the word

		Digital

on some random form on the desk.

I was wondering what this new product was:

		Digital Rectal

But then I noticed that this was a blank medical form.

    .180
    
    *THAT* was precious!  Good work!

    .180
    
    Thank you Dan!! Now how about that sound file ?? Would love to play it
    every morning

    Stan Rogers is dead :-( and you don' wanna hear ME sing.
    
    Tnx anyhow!!  :-)
                 

    I've been reading and thinking about this DEC vs. Digital thread for
    some time now. It's interesting that companies like Coca-Cola and
    Xerox and Pepsi spend millions of dollars every year protecting their
    names and their corporate identities - the jewels of their corporations.
    And in one fell swoop Digital/DEC removes 25 years worth of the unique
    "DEC" label/logo. How much did that cost in terms of all years of
    lost marketing and advertising? Now we are left with this generic
    Digital name. 

>    And in one fell swoop Digital/DEC removes 25 years worth of the unique
>    "DEC" label/logo. How much did that cost in terms of all years of
>    lost marketing and advertising? Now we are left with this generic
>    Digital name. 
    
    The whys are not hard to figure out. Please consider why the MILL was
    sold.

    re .187
    
    Yup... out with old and in with the new... regardless of the
    consequences.
    

When I joined up in '82 (in New Zealand), the subsidiary name there
was "Digital Equipment New Zealand Ltd", so I always referred to the
company as "Digital Equipment"  when talking to folk.  By the time I
moved to Australia ('88), the move to getting rid of "DEC" was going
on.

Saying Digital Equipment, IMO, is not as generic as "Digital",
but given the human trait of laziness, we all prefer to keep it 
short 8-)

About three years ago, I helped start up the sales helpdesk for 
Business Partners here in Australia, which we called CSOdirect, to
make it distinct from DECdirect (which was for endusers).  As part
of the ABU/SBU strategy, we merged the two last year and became
Digital Direct - which causes some problems with another company
who sell mobile (cellular) phones called DigiCall Direct 8-)

cheers

	..klaas..

    Long words tend to occur at lower frequency than short words.
    
    New concepts that begin as long words are transferred to shorter words
    as the concept becomes familiar and occurs at higher word-frequency.
    
    Velocipede => bicycle => bike
    
    Telephone => 'phone => phone
    
    Television => telly => TV
    
    Resistance is futile!
    

    
    .186
    
    "It's interesting that companies like Coca-Cola..."
    
    So, which is it, Coke or Coca-Cola ?
    
    This is a STOOPID argument line.  Some people remember us by DEC, some
    by Digital.  Most don't remember us at all, or even know who "we" are.
    
    Harumph II.

Filling up on the way in this morning (petrol stations in rural France are often
a social experience), I got to chatting with an elderly American gentleman:

	(general chat about the weather and living in France)

him:	... and you work around here?

me:	At Digital in Annecy.

him:	Digital! The computer company! What do you think about this new computer
		from a guy called Gates? Something 95.

me:	Windows 95. It's Microsoft's new operating system.

him:	Microsoft? Who are they?

Fortunately, the pump became available.

Mike.

PS: I'm not trying to make a general point, I just thought it was funny. My
customers, too, all call us DEC, but this fellow knew the name Digital even
though he didn't know Microsoft or what Windows was.

Dunno if this has been mentioned in here, since I haven't regularly
tracked this conference in years -

I was perusing the installation documentation for MicroSoft SMS and SQL
this afternoon. They discuss the installation of the products on

	DEC (tm) AXP machines

On the copyright page of the book, they indicate that DEC is a registered
trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation.

>>On the copyright page of the book, they indicate that DEC is a registered
>>trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation.

Well I just pulled my May 20, 1982 copy of the VAX-11 Architecture Reference
Manual (Rev 6.1) and it too lists DEC as a trademark of Digital Equipment 
Corporation.  Hey, so does my Alpha Architecture Reference Manual printed 10 
years later in 1992 and my DEC OSF/1 manual printed in 1994 - but I don't see
Dibol listed there :-)

bjm

Jack:

  Some folks from Corporate Transcript Editing will be right over with
  some stickers; applying them to your book will just take a minute and
  will be completely painless for you.

                                   Atlant

By the way, why can't I trademark the letters "TM"
(written in small capitals) ?

I dunno - just got a flyer from RadioShack (their new spelling) trumpeting
their new logo (an R offset in a circle) that looks an awful lot like the
registered trademark symbol.  They of course have trademarked this....

					Steve

    I was just reading an article in UNIX Review written by
    Richard Woods from the Alpha Migration Tools Group.  The
    article focuses on emulation techniques.  I counted 3 "DEC"s
    and 0 "Digital"s.
    
    				-John

    Also, in the same issue of UNIX Review (Oct 1995), they reviewed an
    AlphaStation 250 4/266. The article starts with:
    
    "The AlphaStation 250 4/266 current occupies the top end of
    Digital Equipment Corp.'s (DEC's) desktop workstation line."
    
    Also the article uses "DEC" in many cases... "DEC says this",
    "DEC says that".  The article does use Digital in names like
    Digital UNIX, etc.
    
    				-John

  One of the articles in last week's "PC Week" (since recycled)
  was an interview with Harry Copperman. This interview was edited
  to turn some of his jargon into [English].

  Every time he (apparently) said "Digital", the editors replaced
  it with [DEC]. I was quite amused!

  You'd think we'd get a clue.

                                   Atlant

>  <<< Note 4033.198 by TLE::REAGAN "All of this chaos makes perfect sense" >>>
>
>    I was just reading an article in UNIX Review written by
>    Richard Woods from the Alpha Migration Tools Group.  The
>    article focuses on emulation techniques.  I counted 3 "DEC"s
>    and 0 "Digital"s.
    
    Clearly an illustration of emulation techniques.

    Tnx Atlant!!
    

    
    Just got my complimentary copy of the *Premier Issue* of the
    Windows NT Magazine. It was addressed to
    
       WILLIAM T KILGORE
       DEC
       110 SPIT BROOK ROAD
       NASHUA  NH  03062-2711
    
    I choose to assume that many thousands of copies of this magazine
    were similarly addressed to other employees of this company, and were
    successfully delivered by the USPS.
    
    See the movie "Miracle on 34th Street" (preferrably the original b/w
    version) for significance.
    

  The delivery of the premier issue of the Windows NT Magazine
  proves there's a Santa Claus?

                                   Atlant

    
    If you analyze it, the only reason we are called DEC is because of
    Digital Equipment Corp. Now, guess what will happen 10 years from now,
    when DEC and Digital Equipment Corp have been finally outlawed. 
    
    At that point, the company would be called DIGITAL, and i guess it
    would have  gotten shortened to Digi by all and sundry, and then the
    guys in grey suits would take in to their head that Digi is rather ugly
    and would create a new brand name "D", which would be the purest form
    of brand identity. Now I challenge anyone in 2006 to corrupt the brand
    name "D" of company Digital, also sometimes known as Digi and  was
    formerly known by names of  DEC/Digital Equipment Corporation in the
    dark ages when they ran those slow Alpha processors, now seen in
    the Boston Computer Museum.
    
    geee, lets call it D 

    :)
   

    However, the good news is:

    DJ News Wire, Jul-2006. Digital (stock symbol D) announced a 2 for 1
    split of it's common shares. The stock closed at 148, up half point.
    This is the 5th time,  the stock has split in the last 10 years.
    Trading as low as $3 (adjusted for splits) in 1994, the company made
    impressive gains after CEO Bob Palmer finally decided in 1996 to
    outlaw, grey blobs of undefinable constitunecy that had acucmulated
    during the company's heady days in the 1980's and that had been lurking 
    in dark shady corners ever since. (Full story under D/Digi)

    :-}

    Well, actually, my uncle... who is about the second most PC-Illiterate
    person on the planet (said with the utmost kindness and respect, Uncle
    John).. calls the company I work for "digi" all the time!  Maybe he's a
    real trend-setter?
    
    
    tony

I just read an article in Digital's Q1 FY96 Forefront publication called
"Product Naming - An Opportunity for Improvement", and I couldn't help but
notice the glaring problems with the Digital branding.  It says 

   The Corporation is phasing out the use of "DEC" wherever
   it makes sense, thereby reducing customer confusion.

     (seems like this should say "thereby increasing customer confusion"..
     it even appears from this statement - "wherever it makes sense" - 
     that the use of DEC can never be fully eliminated.  so why bother
     promoting a new name?? it will always be cause for confusion.)

   Recent surveys show that 25% of our customers and 33% of
   the market think that Digital and DEC are two separate companies.

     (how many years have we been trying to become known as 
     "Digital"...three?  let's get the message - this isn't working!!)

   This means that a memorable Digital ad or positive analyst
   comment about Digital is wasted on three out of every ten
   potential customers!

   Clearly we cannot predispose potential customers to listen if
   33% of them think our incredibly fast workstations come from
   another company.

     (Imagine if we had done all that advertising with the name DEC.
      We could have gotten 100% recognition in the market.  And
      "DEC" could have redeemed itself with positive analyst comments
      rather than being forever cast away as a failure)

From all I've heard, the term Digital is supposed to convey to our 
customers that we have strengthened our focus and we're getting back on
track.  It might have been worth some temporary confusion if the new name
would lend itself to a better corporate image.  But it won't.  A name is
merely a way of referring to an image.  Our image is what we produce.
To improve our image we need to change things like the performance of
the corporation and the delivery of our products and services.

Corporate should read what their surveys and proposals are saying.
They have confused the market.  Do they really think they are going to
convert these 33% and all the others who still think of us as DEC into
people who will call us and our products Digital?   Guess what.
They don't want to be converted!  

We've wasted enough money on this.  DEC's image is improving.  DEC
is becoming profitable again.  Let's stop wasting energy and money
on this new branding.  DEC is established in the market.  Let's
capitalize on it. 


The intent of this article was to convey the importance of having consistent
easily understood product naming in the marketplace.  This is definitely
important and we should do what we can to make product names recognizable
and easily remembered.  The article says a proposal is nearing approval in
the company.  The proposal includes using product names that reflect the
Digital identity, such as "Digital Security Software" and "Digital LAN
Monitor for NetWare".  With perspective to the confusion in the market that
still exists around our DEC vs. Digital identity, and the potential for the
confusion to always be there, I think this should  be thought through very
seriously before spending lots of trademarking and advertising money on the
new names. The use of a "Digital" naming scheme may sound like a recognizable
and consistent naming pattern internal to our company, but out in the
market it may perform very poorly.  Digital is a very generic term with
many uses in the computer market.  See notes .0 and .7 in this string.
The author of Note .7 makes a sensible argument for using DEC rather than
Digital, and I agree with it totally.  

>    DEC is unique, it's impossible to be confused by it, it's short and
>    easy to remember, it's readily recognizable.  Trying to use "Digital"
>    for the company name is equivalent to IBM trying to use "International."
 

The article in Forefront was written by Van C. Smick who is in charge of
product naming and branding.  I don't know if he is open to feedback from
employees about the plans for product naming, but if you want more information
or want to offer your opinions, Van is at SDTPMM::SMICK or Van Smick @ZKO. 

    
    re:-1  
    
    	You simply must understand that we have Vps whose entire functions
    in life are to do "Digital" branding, not promote the use of DEC. Get
    with the program, management has decided and that is that.
    
    	Now for your regularily scheduled broadcast we return you to our
    studios at government center...
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

Just got off the phone with a lawyer here in Dallas.  Told her I worked for
Digital Equipment Corporation.  She was quiet for a second then said "Oh,
you mean DEC!  I've got a friend that work in New Hampshire for DEC and..."

I sure wasn't gonna sound like a good and say "No, I mean Digital
Equipment.  Let me explain...".

    
    	Tex, ain't it the truth. My account even calls us DEC in all their
    memos. Asked a secretary who actually writes these things about calling 
    us Digital, and she said "Who?".
    
    		the Greyhawk

    There are 200 odd replies here all supporting 'Do not trash DEC' theme.
    Perhaps 2000 others, seeing there own thoughts echoed in some replies
    did not bother to append their thoughts to this string.

    Not one reply herein suggests a good rationale for why the name DEC
    should be trashed. Not *one*.

    So where are the peoples who promoted the "DEC = Bad, DIGITAL = Good"
    theme. They wouldnt even bother to pen their reply to a string most
    people feel strong enough to stretch it over 200 replies and a few
    weeks ?? Or may be they live too high above us to hear this din of some
    lowly people harping about something. Or perhaps, they woke up just
    long enough to pronounce their  edict which the angel delivered to them
    in a dream and have since gone right back to their slumber. 
                
    hello, hello, is anyone listening. helloooo. No i guess the line is
    dead.

    Perhaps, real people do not really read this forum of little folks.

    The whole idea was probably from some Bain consultant who is off working
    like issues with another company. For a while there I thought we would
    rename ourselves to Bain Equipment Corporation and Mitt Romney would be
    our new CEO. ;-) 
    
    Jim C.
    
    

    It's really simple, folks.  We had customers that knew us as DEC.
    We had customers that knew us as Digital.  Some knew us as both,
    others were confused by the dual name.  That problem was easily
    solved by tossing the customers that knew us as DEC and ignoring
    anyone who calls looking for DEC.
    
    All the arguments for the name have been well stated, so I'll just
    say that they'll be studying this campaign in business schools in
    the not too distant future (in the "What not to do if you want to
    be successful" course if anyone didn't get the drift.

    re .211
    
    Not only have we not heard any reasons why DEC is bad, but we haven't
    heard any why "Digital" is good.  In fact, this whole note is filled
    with reasons by we SHOULDN'T be called "Digital".  It's just to
    confusing to our customers, the press, and anyone else.
    
    Someone goofed on this call.  Everyone makes mistakes, but please...
    just admit it, fix it, and get on with it...
    
    -Steve
    

re Note 4033.214 by CONSLT::OWEN:


>     Not only have we not heard any reasons why DEC is bad, but we haven't
>     heard any why "Digital" is good.  In fact, this whole note is filled
>     with reasons by we SHOULDN'T be called "Digital".  It's just to
>     confusing to our customers, the press, and anyone else.
  
        Actually, I have heard one "data point" on this repeated over
        and over and over again:  in focus groups, the name "Digital"
        conveyed the impression of a larger company than did the name
        "DEC".

        Even if this is true, it wouldn't seem to be all that
        significant in the face of existing practice.

        Bob

    Re: .213 ?
    
    	DEC was when Ken was here (both have three letters ?)
    
    	Digital is even longer than Palmer }8-)}
    
    Re: .214
    	I don't suppose IBM is very big then ?  Or USX, or ITT or even ATT ?
    
        Actually it seems that the bigger a company gets, the smaller its
    name.
    
    We started as
    
    	Digital Equipment Corporation   { we were small then }
    
    	and grew to DEC ?
    
    
    	and shrunk to Digital ?
    
    
    Bill
    

    Well, there may be no-one interested enough to defend this here in
    person, but the latest Internet Program Office Communications Bulletin
    (No. 2) has a few paragraphs relating to a presentation on the
    importance of "branding" from Charlie Holleran, VP Communications. Go
    check out http://www-iu.ako.dec.com/int/ipo-bulletin-2.html
    
    and draw your own conclusions as to whether he's wasting your wages or
    not.
    
    regards
    john

>        DEC was when Ken was here (both have three letters ?)
>    

This might be true, but I seem to recall that the ex-Prez was
one of the strongest proponents of calling this company "Digital"
and not "DEC".

Anyone want to back me up on this?

    I seem to recall that one of Ken's broadly attempted "stop calling us - 
    DEC" pursuits occurred around 1986.

    Oh, we were Digital alright.  But that won't satisfy the revisionists
    who insist we are DEC.
    
    
    When we announced our first PC's, some consulting firm tried to convince
    Ken Olsen and others that we should change the name of the company to
    "DEC" (it was our ticker symbol, the consultant even had some complaint
    about the lowercase letters) and call our new PC's "The DEC Little Demons".
    
    The consultanting firm thankfully was ignored, and we were saved the
    humiliation of trying to engineer and sell "DEC Little Demons".
    
    Or logo is digital.  Has been for a long long time.
    
    
    I don't know how you can look at that logo and think the name of our
    company is "DEC".
    
    								-mr. bill

re .220
    
>    I don't know how you can look at that logo and think the name of our
>    company is "DEC".
 
I'm not sure either, but just about everyone I've encountered "out there" 
does.

Another DEC/Digital Story...

I was over at my folks place a couple of weeks ago.  Knowing that I work for 
DEC/Digital, my father came over to me and said "Hey, come look at this on TV, 
it's about Digital."

Turns out the story (on CNN I think) was about digital phones having NOTHING 
to do with this company, our products, or our services.

How many times have consumers seen the term "digital PC" and thought the word 
"digital" was just an adjective?  Or maybe it WAS just an adjective, and had 
nothing to do with us at all.

IBM certainly wouldn't rename themselves "International".  That essentially is 
what we have done.  If Hewlett-Packard decided they wanted to be called just 
"Hewlett" instead, that just might work.  Unique name that doesn't have 
additional meanings.

Just wondering... how many other companies out there are using a one word 
adjective as their "nickname"?

-Steve

  Bill L-K has stated his point several times.

  Is there *ANYONE* else who agrees� with him?

                                   Atlant


� Employees and family members of any organization doing Digital-
  branding are excluded. Contest void where prohibited. Tax and
  Title not included.

    
    data points 67 & 68 
    
    The cattle that were marked with 'DIGITAL' complained long and
    loud and stumbled around for some time after the branding . 
    
    The cattle that were branded with 'DEC' didn't feel as much
    pain. 
    
    Some observers remarked that the former were just bum steers.
    :-)
    
    jc 
    

    Another data point....
    
    From 4065.60
    
        I stopped to look at the PC's at Lechmere's in the
        Mall of NH this past weekend. While there I watched a
        Lechmere Sales guy give a brief demo of a
        *******Digital******* [emphasis mine] Starion.  I was
        surprised to hear the Lechmere guy tell a potential
        customer that the *******Digital******* [emphasis
        mine] PC's were the best of the various brands in the
        stores.
    
    
        The starions were all running some flashy multimedia
        sales support software, that presented
        ********digital******** [emphasis mine] and the
        machines.  Most other PC's in the area seemed to
        either be turned off or were running simple screen
        savers.  The starions were definitely attracting more
        attention that the Packard Bell's, IBM's and other PC
        in the store. 
    
        Rich Hart.

    Another data point....
    
    I too was at Lechmere this weekend, but in Woburn.  The Digital
    Starion's were getting gawked at.  There were tear off fact sheets
    next to each of four Starion PCs.  (Fold them in half, and in half
    again, and they are the size of a business card.)
    
    
    Digital logo at the top.
    
    A bulletted features list.
    Six pictures of the box art of the six major software titles packaged
    with the systems!
    Bragging about the sound.
    
    Three more logos (JBL, Intel inside, and Microsoft Windows 95) at the
    bottom.
    
    
    On the back, brief paragraph about a company called Digital.  Brief
    paragraph about Digital's service.  Brief paragraph about Digital's
    on-line support.  Boring list of the more than dozen pre-loaded
    software titles.
    
    A phone number.  A url.
    
    
    And in about six point type, acknowledgement that Starion and
    Digital logo are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corporation.
    
    
    Nothing about some company called "DEC" *at* *all*.
    
    								-mr. bill

  Unreliable data.

  Whenever I write a note, I translate all my "DEC"s into "Digital"s,
  just to conform with the demands of the thought police. So you 
  couldn't tell from one of my notes whether the outside person
  used "Digital" or "DEC". The same may well be true of the Star-
  ion noter.

  Then again, the fact that a Lechmere salesperson said something
  is, umm, "really persuasive". (NOT!)  If your argument depends
  on that level, give it up, Bill.

                                   Atlant

    
    	Besides DEC requires only *three* keystokes, all nicely bunched
    together on the keyboard. Digital takes you across the whole thing,
    and makes you push 2.33 TIMES as many keys.
    
    	KISS -
    
    		the Greyhawk

    How about a campaign to capitalize on the confusion?  Something to tie
    in the two "separate" companies?
    
    	"We've been digital long before it became fashionable.  Long before
    	it became a buzz word.  Way back to analog days.
    
    	"We're also known as DEC.  Either way, we're the same company."
    
    Isn't that why we're paying the big bucks to the advertising agencies?
    
    As I said in this string before, let's fix this by aknowledging we have
    a problem.  We made a mistake, let's fix it and move on.  Why not combine 
    the two names in a *new* logo?  Like FedEx did.
    

    OK, here's the fix.  We (Digital) spin off a company called DEC.
    DEC is a Digital reseller.  Whenever someone wants to buy a computer
    built by Digital Equipment Corp., they look in the phone book and
    find either DEC or Digital - whichever name they are more familiar
    with.  In either case we get the revenue rather than throwing some
    of it away like we do today.  DEC could even be a low overhead,
    well run organization that would ... ah, you get the picture.
    
    Of course, since we (Digital) seems to be giving up the DEC trademark,
    we'd better hurry up and create the DEC subsidiary fast before
    someone else does!

    When I see acquaintances who are aware of the fact that I work here,
    they always ask, "So, you still at DEC?" Of course, I must answer, "no,
    I now work at Digital."
    
    I have a friend in the community who is a bit of a stock nut, and he's
    always saying, "Well, DEC is doing a little better now, eh?"
    
    I have another friend who owns an accounting firm who says to me all
    the time, "Bruce, I know DEC makes good stuff, but I'll never buy it.
    Too expensive--and,  doesn't run the software we need."
    When I tell him we are now Digital, he just looks at me and says, "well
    I ain't gonna buy it anyhow, even though you guys make good stuff."
    
    And a colleague on the local Board of Selectmen who asks me every
    Tuesday night when we meet, "So, how's things at DEC these days?"
    
    Bruce
    
    
    Just some odd data points.
    

    Yet another example on the way to a customer site this morning:
    
    	I drive buy an International House of Pancakes and absent-
    	mindedly start thinking how abusurd it would be to have to say
    	that entire string ("Hi and welcome to internationalhouseofpancakes
    	howmayihelpyoutoday?) and how equally absurd it would be to just
    	say "international."  Then I take a second look and spot the
    	accroymn IHOP on a second sign.  
    
    	Perfect.  They've kept the origianl name and incorporated the
    	common slang that most customers use.  Their is a direct
    	correlation between the two.  Their signage includes both.
    
    Can't we do the same?
    	
    	

�They've kept the origianl name and incorporated the
�    	common slang that most customers use. 

Yeah, like Coca-Cola(tm) and Coke(tm).  But, as far as Digital/DEC goes, I
guess people far wiser than you or I are making these decisions.  They're
most certainly getting paid more ;-}.

-Patrick

  re: .207, .211

  You asked why no one involved with the move to use the brand Digital
  instead of DEC was responding to this note string.

    It's because I responded to the prior 145-notes long string (3904) the
    last time this same issue was debated in this conference -- and nothing
    has changed since then. I don't mean that negatively or as an insult but
    the facts are still the same.

    To recap, research was done by an impartial, external research firm, the
    results were presented to the senior management, a decision was made to
    move from DEC to Digital, and that decision is being implemented in
    product naming and anywhere else we can. Due to the cost impact, we have
    not been able to change all the product names at one time and this has
    diluted the expected impact of the change.

  I read this conference regularly, but see no value in debating the same
  topic over and over again unless there is new data. The bottom line is that
  a decision has been made and is being implemented. Upper management is
  aware of the slow progress to date and of the issues raised in this
  conference (and elsewhere). The decision to move forward on this has been
  reaffirmed, so I am still plugging away at the product name changes.

  My only reason for posting a reply is to address why no one was responding
  to the debate. I know that posting this reply will not change any minds,
  just as my posting the background info did not change the consensus back in
  the Spring. 

  I now return you to your standard programming ......
    

    Any other examples?
    
    Yeah.  New England Telephone and NYNEX.  They tried to keep both names. 
    
    They had an ad budget that is at least an order of magnitude larger
    than ours, trying to tie the two names together, trying to explain
    what services they provided.
    
    And they failed.  *MISERABLY*  Most people thought New England Telephone
    and NYNEX were two different companies.
    
    They are now just NYNEX.
    
    -----
    
    The question "What should our name be, DEC or Digital?" has been asked
    many times.  Every time for a *long* time, the answer was Digital.
    
    The same several folks don't like that answer.  (They even appeal to a
    silent majority who supposedly agree with them.)  They just insist
    over and over again we are DEC.
    
    
    The only thing somewhat "new" in this debate is that there seem to be
    more people insisting that calling ourselves *BOTH* Digital and DEC
    is a brilliant solution (or compromise).
    
    I'm not sure if anyone here has a concept of just how much money such an
    "solution" would cost.  Actually, there are a few people who have such a
    concept.  They know that we can only afford to choose one name.
    
    The *choice* is Digital or DEC.
    
    We just can't afford the choice Digital *AND* DEC.  (And we'd probably
    fail if we made that choice anyway.)
    
    								-mr. bill

    Re: .233
    
    Thanks for your candid reply.  Let me add my $0.02 (well maybe $0.25)...
    
    Whether it was intentional or not, you stated that a decision was made
    to "move *from* DEC *to* Digital".  Regardless of the wisdom of picking 
    one_name_over_another, the fallacy in that is that it forces a binary
    decision (Digital *vs* DEC).  If that's how the mission was laid out to 
    the research firm, it's not surprising that they examined data and 
    returned a response, consistent with what they were paid to do (submit a 
    binary recommendation of one name over another).
    
    If a binary choice was the goal of the study, there are at least two 
    fallacies to that approach.  First, it limits the outcome.  Second, the
    unpicked "brand" (in the customer's mind) becomes orphaned.
    
    There have been some very clear and sound suggestions earlier in this 
    string to *unify*, not discount, the two customer identities of Digital 
    Equipment Corporation.  Stated differently, both d|i|g|i|t|a|l and DEC 
    should be preserved and their identities merged.  The last thing we can 
    afford is to orphan ANY segment of our market.  Whatever third party was 
    used, they haven't walked in my shoes or those of most other employees who 
    call on our customer base every day.  When it comes to addressing the 
    image and identity of Digital Equipment Corporation, we spend our time on 
    the productive aspects of making them aware of the quality and content of 
    our solutions --- and then bringing in revenue.  That's a hard enough job 
    in a competitive market, as it is.  
    
    To also ask us & our channel partners to "retrain" our customers that the 
    use of *DEC* is inappropriate, is an indication that someone in the GMA
    has lost touch with the street.  
    
    As an example of how hard that "DEC" is burned in one's mind, consider my 
    unscientific observation that most of us veterans who attended this year 
    always referred to it as "DEC 100".  Those wonderful customers who helped 
    us get there can call us whatever they want, as long as they call us...
    
    Long live d|i|g|i|t|a|l 	
    					*AND* 
    								DEC.
    
    jmho.
    

    
    re .233:
    
    Thank you for your reply. Communication is the beginning of the
    solution for all problems.
    
    In that spirit, please pass the following up the management chain from
    your end:
    
    If one continues to ignore the volumes of information (not to mention
    darn good ideas) coming in from the people who walk the walk, then one
    can indeed proceed under the false assumption that there is no "new data".
    

    Problem:
         Some of our customers know us as DEC.  Some of our customers know
    us as Digital.  Some smaller subset of our customers know us as DEC and
    Digital.
    
    Solution 1:
         I have always assumed that the goal of the Brand Identity campaign
    was to get all of our customers and the public at large to realize
    that,
    
    	Digital == DEC
    	      and
        DEC == Digital
    
    That is, we (DEC) have a proud heritage of providing high quality
    comprehensive solutions for our technology customers.  In addition,
    we (Digital) have a truly amazing set of new product offerings that
    offer the best performance, lowest cost, best connectivity, etc.
    
    I have always thought that our DEC identity was important, because I
    learned all of my professional and business ethics on Ken Olsen's
    watch. i.e.
    
    	"Do the right thing."
    	"Whatever it takes."
    	"The customer is your boss."
    	"The company's greatest asset is its people."
    	"Above all else, quality."	
    	etc.
    
    
    Solution 2:
        Now suppose that the goal of the Brand Identity campaign is to
    create a new identity for this Company.  That is, distance ourselves
    from our past and our problems.
    
    	New president/CEO/Chairman of the Board.
    	Sell the Mill.
    	Get rid of all those DECxxxx products.
    	Burn all the books that say DEC.
        Translate DEC in every document to Digital.
    	etc.
    
    Hey, it could happen! :-)
    
    I subscribe that the people that support "Digital and DEC" and
    "Reclaim the Name - DEC", have the Solution 1 Brand Identity goal in
    mind.  I know that is where my mind is at.
    
    Furthermore, those suggestions don't make any sense, if the goal of the
    Brand Identity campaign is to create a new identity for this Company.
    Perhaps the goal of the Brand Identity campaign is not what we think it
    should be.
    
    In the context of Solution 1, it doesn't make much sense to sell off the
    Terminals business.  The one thing that DEC is famous for is our
    terminals.  EVERYONE provides a vtxxx terminal emulator!  I would even
    go as far as to claim that terminals are to DEC, as printers are to HP.
    But if we are creating a new identify for ourselves, then cash value
    vs. anticipated future revenues is the only issue.
    
    With all due respect Mr. Bill, I don't see where the dual identity
    campaign of
    
    	Digital == DEC
    
    would cost anymore than the Digital only campaign.  If anything, you
    would save money on not having to go through the entire Company
    changing everything DEC to Digital.
    
    
    Food for thought,                                 
    
    
    Paul

>    With all due respect Mr. Bill, I don't see where the dual identity
>    campaign of
>    
>    	Digital == DEC
>    
>    would cost anymore than the Digital only campaign.  If anything, you
>    would save money on not having to go through the entire Company
>    changing everything DEC to Digital.
    
    
you would also save money by not having to convert all the people who
call us DEC.  that would take a ton of money and years of work, if it would
even be possible.  if people were to see an ad with both the names DEC and
Digital in it, they could just identify with whichever name they happen to
notice.  you could get total coverage instantly with every ad.  

Do we really need to have one and only one name?  It's a common practice
for people to have a formal name and a nickname.  Why not the same for a
company.  Other companies do it.  

No doubt most people know that Federal Express and FedEx are the same.
Maybe we could promote the same sort of understanding without a major effort.


dual naming... sounds like new data (if the original study was truly a
binary decision.)  maybe cause for revisiting the decision again?

    re: .233

>  I read this conference regularly, but see no value in debating the same
>  topic over and over again unless there is new data. The bottom line is that

    As someone else pointed out, I think the suggestions and comments
    presented by all the people here concerning this issue should be
    construed as new data. Also,  the fact that this issue refuses to die
    and surfaces over and over again and people talk passionately about it
    should be viewed as new data too. Also, coming as it does from people
    at grass root, people from all facets of the organisation, people who
    have worked for this company for years, people who daily interact with
    customers and vendors and know what is being done and said and talked
    about, should be polled in as new data.

    No doubt the research firm that gathered the initial data was
    impartial, but they gathered their data at just one point in time,
    analysed it once and since no one can forsee, must have presented it as
    a solution, based on a success rate of similiar strategies in past for
    other companies. And they did it as just another job for just another
    company.

    Contrast this with data being gathered all the time by Digits who are
    *not* impartial but damn right pro pro glory-to-my-company, who are *not*
    doing it for a buck but for love, who are concerned enough to raise the
    issue time and again. They may not be professional name branders, but
    are professionals, at least in their own fields. But then again, I
    never have seen a professional-name-brander all my life.

    Moreover, the  idea being mooted here is a dual identity. Go ahead
    brand |d|i|g|i|t|a|l all you can, but let DEC tag along in that tiny
    empty space that gets left over when |d|i|g|i|t|a|l is sprawled loud
    and clear. What has been said here is a plea to stop hurling stones
    at people who use the word DEC. The impassioned arguement is to please
    not consider DEC with disdain or to treat as if it were a 4 letter word
    (3 letter word, yeah). 

    Please consider some questions:

    If the company, continues to brand |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| in the usual way,  

    - Will it cost money if DEC gets tagged along with digital??  
    - Would it not save the company money if 'Trash DEC' campaign itself is
      trashed?? 
    - Would it not earn extra recognition in the minds of people, who already
      know the company by the name DEC 
    - Doesn't the company hurt when you declare DEC to be an outlawed name 
    - How much would it cause to permanently erase DEC from human memory
      and replace it with Digital. (IF AT ALL. And to what avail??)

    finally,  
    
    - why should a v unique snappy, smart name like DEC be totally
    obliterated?? That too, for sake of a long, non-unique, confusing name 
    like digital! 
    
    - did the professional research company profess any theories as to  how
    and why a non-uinque meaningless name like digital (associated with
    many  generic products, a generic technology and many small companies)
    actually  imprint a very unique image in the minds of the people. A
    very unique name that would spell out loud and clear into Digital
    Equipment Corp!!

    The last question to me is most intriguing and if I could read an
    answer and comprehend it, I swear, I'll give up writing notes for good.

    I think the percept of 'new data' here is a peice of paper for
    which Digital has paid money and has come from outside and from people
    professing to be professionals and who charge big bucks to lend weight
    to that peice of paper.  Well, nobody can fight that. That is the rule
    as old as life itself. Outsiders always deserve our best treatment
    although it's the people at home that have our best interest at heart.

    JMHO, half cent worth.
                     
    /vj

    
    	I kind of look at it this way. If the world's richest man says it
    20someodd times while standing with our CEO in front of God and
    everybody; if my customers use it daily; if CNBC says "DEC did this,
    and DEC did that"; if the Wall St. Journal, Buiness Week, and
    evryotherdamnrag in the publishing world says DEC; ain't we Digital?
    
    	Somebody pass me one of those new-fangled digital phones, please?
    I gotta call somebody who gives a f....
    
        "Charlie, take that IBM hat off, and pay attention..."
    
    
    		the Greyhawk
    	
    
    	

    
    Decision makers can sometimes be very stubborn, or is it because
    DEC rhymes with KEN? 
    
    jc

    You've heard of the BBC, right ?
    
    Well they quite like this Internet stuff and on one of their pages is a
    set of computer vendors names + pointers to web sites. We weren't there
    so someone sent them a mail which didn't mention the E word once. Now
    we're there, guess what you click on to get to www.digital.com ? Hint:
    not digital.
    
    Mr Deming, The Man Who Knows About Quality, used to say "Plan,
    Implement, Check, Adjust".
    
    The rebranding has been planned, and is being implemented. How about
    the "Check, Adjust" bit ?

RE:  <<< Note 4033.234 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>
�             -< Digital or DEC.  Pick *ONE* (not two).  Digital. >-
�
�    Any other examples?
�    
�    Yeah.  New England Telephone and NYNEX.  They tried to keep both names. 
�    
�    They had an ad budget that is at least an order of magnitude larger
�    than ours, trying to tie the two names together, trying to explain
�    what services they provided.
�    
�    And they failed.  *MISERABLY*  Most people thought New England Telephone
�    and NYNEX were two different companies.
�    
�    They are now just NYNEX.
    
    Of course they failed! They should have tried to call themselves 'New'.
    
    Hmm, isn't NYNEX vs "New York and New England Exchange" (or whatever)
    completely the opposite of Digital vs DEC?
    
    Laurie.

    So, no one answered my question in .221
    
    "Just wondering... how many other companies out there are using a one
    word adjective as their "nickname"?"
    
    Can we think of any?  If we do, I think they'll be few and far between. 
    Why?  It's FAR to confusing for our customers, the press, and the
    public.  Having a branding campain is a GREAT idea.  When our name is
    spoken, people should automaticly think of us.  They have not, do not,
    and will not think of this company when the word "digital" is used. 
    It's simply far to ambiguous.
    
    Did we do this as an ill fated attempt to attach ourselves to the buzz
    word of the 90's (digital)?
    
    -Steve
    

> "Just wondering... how many other companies out there are using a one
> word adjective as their "nickname"?"
    
  Actually, there are a few, but there are probably some special
  conditions around each one. The most common is that it's an
  uncommon adjective. The second most common is that the company
  is known in a limited context, where everyone "knows" which
  comapny you're referring to.

    o Blockbuster
    o International (when we're discussing trucks and harvesters)


                                   Atlant

>  <<< Note 4033.234 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>
>             -< Digital or DEC.  Pick *ONE* (not two).  Digital. >-
>
>    Any other examples?
>    
>    Yeah.  New England Telephone and NYNEX.  They tried to keep both names. 
>    
>    They had an ad budget that is at least an order of magnitude larger
>    than ours, trying to tie the two names together, trying to explain
>    what services they provided.
>    
>    And they failed.  *MISERABLY*  Most people thought New England Telephone
>    and NYNEX were two different companies.
>    
>    They are now just NYNEX.

I don't think this is an etirely accurate description of what NET/NYNEX
went through.
Before the AT&T breakup in 1984, the Bell System was a nationwide net 
of LOCAL operating companies, one of which was New England Telephone.
The breakup included the creation of the 7 or 8 REGIONAL operating companies.
NYNEX was created from NET and the New York area local operating company.

Being an in-your-home and in-your-face business, the telephone companies
tried to maintain a local image: "nothing will change in your local phone
service."  But they had a new corporate identity and charter that they needed
to promote: "look what we can do for you now."

So while NET/NYNEX had a dual identity for some time, they were forced into it
by merger, not choice.  When they streamlined their identity to NYNEX, 
they did not discard the NET identity, they USED it as a bridge.  
Where old NET ads closed with the tag line/jingle "We're the one for you 
New England, New England Telephone," the new NYNEX ads closed with the TUNE 
from the tag line/jingle with the words removed.
This is a POWERFUL linkage of identities that was not severed, but tapered off.

If Digital is to be our corporate identity, let's at least use DEC as 
leverage to promote and justify the new name.

- tom]

    .240
    
>    	I kind of look at it this way. If the world's richest man says it
>    20someodd times while standing with our CEO in front of God and

    I thought *he* was God. Hear a joke. A psychiatrist dies and goes to
    heaven. He sees a very long queue there and finds St. Peters pacing
    restlessly near the gates. He engages into conversation with St. Peters
    and when St Petes finds out that he is a shrink, he gets excited, pulls
    him to the head of the queue, gets him in and a grand reception committee
    proceeds to escort him to God's sleeping quarters. The shrink asks SP,
    'hey, what's the beef?' SP replies -'We want you to counsel God.  He
    thinks he is Bill Gates'

Almost every major company has an acronym that is used with (if not more highly
used than) its full name.  If we want to be a major company again, we need
to keep ours :)

GM - General Motors
IBM - International Business Machines
HP - Hewlett-Packard
3M - Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing
AT&T - American Telephone & Telegraph
FEDEX - FEDeral EXpress
UPS - United Parcel Service
AMOCO - AMerican Oil COmpany
ALCOA - ALuminum COmpany of America (I think)
FORD - Found On Road Dead (I know).

and the list can continue forever...

- Bryan

    re: .248
    
    Didn't AT&T recently officially change their name from American
    Telephone and Telegraph to AT&T?
    
    Bob

>    - did the professional research company profess any theories as to  
how
>    and why a non-uinque meaningless name like digital (associated with
>    many  generic products, a generic technology and many small companies)
>    actually  imprint a very unique image in the minds of the people. A
>    very unique name that would spell out loud and clear into Digital
>    Equipment Corp!!

This is what I was told when I first started here:

Some consulting firm (not sure if it is the one mentioned here) found that 
people associated the name DEC (in conjunction with the old logo's blue 
coloring.... but I won't go there....) with legacy hardware. This meant 
that DEC wasn't associated with the other things we do well such as 
services, software, and PCs. Therefore the move was made to make 
|D|i|g|i|t|a|l| and "Digital" more associated with our company and the 
other things we now do well (services, software, PCs).

BUT, as a few people pointed out, I do not think we were successfull at 
tying the positives of DEC to the new Digital. I don't even think we tried. 
Why throw away the good qualities of "DEC", such as bet-your-a$$ 
reliability, engineering excellence, etc, for the things the new "Digital" 
are trying to be known for, ie. services, software, etc?

Why does it have to be 1 or the other? I think the 2 name suggestion is 
DEAD ON.

	C'Ya,
	Wayne

    In years past I have owned various pieces of Radio equipment -- Radio
    radios, Radio TVs, even a Radio CB (although I shouldn't admit that).
    
    Everyone knows Radio...right?
    
    M

    And AMOCO is AMOCO, they changed their name around 10 years ago or
    so...
    
    			-John (an AMOCO stockholder)

> -< You know, the "Dog With Phonograph" trademark >-
> 
> In years past I have owned various pieces of Radio equipment -- Radio
> radios, Radio TVs, even a Radio CB (although I shouldn't admit that).
> 
> Everyone knows Radio...right?
    
  I think we need a rule about "nipping" before "noting".

                                   Atlant

    So, he now has to listen to his masters voice!
    
    KO
    

    re: .249
    
    Actually, you've almost got it right.  AT&T used to be called American
    Telephone and Telegraph.  And, that got shortened to AT&T.  But,
    recently, AT&T split up into three different companies.  This is so
    that each company can better compete.  Congruent with this, the new
    names of each of the companies are American, Telephone and Telegraph.
    This was a result of advice from some highly paid and respected
    consultants.  Currently, an effort is underway within each company to
    verify with customers that when they say "American" or "Telephone" or
    "Telegraph" they tend to think immediately of the respective companies.
    
    These service marks are, of course, going to have to be more carefully
    protected in the future.  No longer will one be able to claim to be an
    American unless, of course, they really are employed by American. 
    Rather, it is suggested that Citizen of the United States be
    substituted.  Their new slogan, "American as Apple Pie" will shortly
    hit the airwaves, pending some disagreements to be settled with a small
    maker of personal computers.
    
    Similarly, the public is going to need to be educated about the correct
    usage of the term "Telephone."  It is suggested that they simply
    substitute such terms as cellular, phone or that-funny-little-box-on-
    the-wall-that-rings-every-once-in-a-while or TFLBOTWTREOIAW for short.
    
    The good news is that "Telegraph" is not a term in common usage
    anymore.  However, that company has a bit more difficulty convincing
    the public that their product still is current, hip and more than just
    a "cash cow."  Their new slogan, "Dash to the dots, they're really hot"
    will be accompanied by a $300M ad campaign to rejuvinate interest in 
    what is hailed by the industry to be the most important technical
    breakthrough for PCs since Windows 95.  Due to the efficiency of new
    compressions schemes, it is expected that a standard PC with 14.4
    baud-capable modem will be able to transmit and receive Morse code at
    effective rates of 54 kB per second and higher.  Users already familiar
    with using their Shift and Ctrl keys for sending messages by Morse code
    are sure to appreciate the extra bandwidth.  It is rumored
    that Aerosmith has been paid in excess of $12M for use of their musical
    theme, "Walk This Way" to be featured during the campaign.  Analysts 
    don't get the connection, but agree that the ad campaign appears to be
    really "hip" and that sales of telegraph products should boom once they
    finally become more available to the installed base of PC users.  The
    ads will feature lettering done by teletype with flashy messages
    designed to heighten customer awareness, not unlike that launched by,
    um, ah,  gee, that ...  on the tip o' my tongue.  I think they make
    watches ...
    
               
    Steve ;^)

  In an unusual legal proceeding, Telegraph's ancient patent of
  the "1-bit" was upheld today in US Circuit court. This ruling
  is expected to have a major impact, as Telegraph has announced
  that it intends to license this patent on a per-use basis.

  In a related suite, Microsoft has announced that they intend
  to vigorously defend their patent on the "0-bit".

  In other news, the stock of companies doing Digital Data Com-
  pression (DCC) soared in extensive trading. Analysts are puz-
  zled as to why this small segment of the broader technology
  market was sharply up, while many other technology stocks fell.

                                   Atlant

    Telegraph's lawyers better watch out for the Japanese audio companies.
    I think they hold the patent on the 1-bit, as used in their 1-bit DEC
    to radio converters

    In the 9/18 issue of PC Week...there are two articles on Digital...both
    have headlines and copy using DEC exclusively.
    
    The is one ad with the tag line "Digital is for real"....of course,
    that ad was for Motorola.

    Gee, from what you guys say, the name DEC is getting a lot more
    publicity than it ever did when it was the one we said we preferred. 
    Maybe our current official stance gives the reviewers / journalists /
    contrarians a chance to call us something else and so be perceived as
    either familiar or antiestablishment.  :-)
    
    -Mark

    My local paper ran the "Computer Corner" column by Brit Hume and T.R.
    Reid on Saturday about the great price/performance buys in PCs you now
    find in retail stores.
    
    The good news:  Digital was mentioned for our Starion and warranty.
    
    The bad news:  We are referred to three different ways:
    
    	"Digital Equipment"
    	"DEC"  (twice)
    	"Digital"
    
    So.............how many propsects that don't know us will be confused
    by this?  Will they think these are *three* different companies?
    	
    Why do we refuse to address this anomaly?  Why don't we listen to
    how the customers/press/wall street/competition refer to us and 
    acknowledge we have a problem, address it, and move on?
    
    This problem is *not going to go away* and, in my opion, us calling
    ourselves "Digital Equipment" is not going to change 35 years of 
    habit.
    
    
    	

    America On-Line (AOL) is advertising "Digital City" which may be a
    double-edged sword for Digital; i.e., a threat to make Digital a
    household name with or without Digital Equipment Corporation being
    associated with it.  Seems to me that we should make a MAJOR effort to
    jump on the AOL / Digital bandwagon or risk having Digital City become
    the major corporate affiliation with the word digital. 

    I hate when this happens...
    

          FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE         Contact: Veronica Sutsko
          (215) 643-8057


DEC PROFESSIONAL
USHERS IN THE FUTURE OF DIGITAL COMPUTING
WITH A NEW TITLE/NEW CIRCULATION


FORT WASHINGTON, PA, July 10, 1995   Cardinal Business Media, publisher of 
quality journals for the computer industry, announces it has renamed DEC 
Professional, the Magazine for Managers of Multi-Platform Digital Computing, 
to Digital Age.  Digital Age will continue its commitment to helping managers 
and users of Digital Equipment Corporation s computers and third-party 
hardware and software solve their computing challenges, with a focus on 
OpenVMS, UNIX, Windows NT, networking and client/server computing.

 The Digital market and the computer industry as a whole are much different 
today than they were even a year ago,  says Mark Durrick, Publisher of 
Digital Age,  Digital Age emphasizes the new Digital, a company that s moving 
robustly into the future.   Digital Age tailors its editorial content to the 
needs of the sophisticated audience.  The magazine identifies industry trends 
and anticipates the introduction of key technologies.  News events are 
analyzed in light of their long-term impact on users in the industry.

Digital Age will continue to offer feature articles and regular columns 
contributed by recognized authorities.  In addition, the magazine will 
provide expanded product coverage and in-depth case studies that will allow 
corporate decision makers to implement current computing schemes in light of 
future designs and systems.   This magazine has a 14-year history as the 
premier publication in the Digital marketplace,  says Eric Schoeniger, 
Editor-in-Chief of Digital Age,  I look forward to maintaining the magazine s 
tradition of providing in-depth technical information that helps its readers 
perform their jobs more effectively, and to fine-tuning our focus as the 
Digital marketplace evolves. 

In addition to the exciting name change to Digital Age, the publication s 
circulation will be 50,000 qualified subscribers, beginning with the August 
1995 issue.  The circulation has been fine-tuned to target more managers 
(63.5%), companies with 1,000 employees or more (60%), and subscribers who 
are using OpenVMS (82.5%), UNIX (76.3%) and Windows NT (41.5%). The 
circulation has been tweaked to eliminate companies with small budgets (less 
than $10,000) and has increased VAR circulation to 29.3%.  The publication s 
advertising rates will also be reduced by 10%.  Companies who advertise in 
the publication six times or more will receive Digital Age s database to 
supplement their marketing programs.

We can all agree that Digital Equipment Corporation is a  new company  and 
the future indeed looks bright for the entire marketplace.  It is our 
obligation to fine-tune the editorial and circulation product as the 
marketplace changes, and we are extremely excited to bring you the 
improvements that will ultimately help vendors sell more products to Digital 
Age s decision makers.

For more information on advertising in Digital Age, please contact your 
Digital Age sales representative or Mark Durrick, Publisher, at (215) 643-
8060.

###

So, "professional" is no longer appropriate to
this company, but "age" is?

    I wonder when they'll rename the UK paper, "DEC User" to something
    PC...
    
    Laurie.

Bolt Beranek & Newman, which everybody inside and out always called "BBN",
has recently changed its name to "BBN".

___Pete

re Note 4033.266 by HERON::KAISER:

> Bolt Beranek & Newman, which everybody inside and out always called "BBN",
> has recently changed its name to "BBN".
  
        Then there's that school just around the corner from BB&N.

        Bob

    re: .267 
    
    Yeah, but if the former Bolt, Beranek and Newman can get 100 of it's
    top customers to say that when they hear 'BBN', they only think of
    them, then they're all set!

From a LIVEWIRE article on analysts' reactions to our latest earnings
announcement, verbatim:

         Terry Shannon, publisher of "Shannon Knows DEC" [sic], a
   newsletter that specializes in tracking Digital, said, ...

    "Shannon Knows DEC" existed way before the "Digital" push.  I doubt
    they'll rename it anytime soon.  Anyway, "Shannon Knows Digital"
    wouldn't make much sense... people might think it's a components
    newsletter.  :-)
    
    --Ron

    Terry Shannon doesn't work for Digital, so he can call his newsletter
    anything he wants; he doesn't have to put up with this DEC/Digital
    ߵ��$#�+!

Besides, Shannon is one of the biggest DEC/Digital boosters we have out there.

				Steve

And the former Charlie Matco...

/john

...and given that the stock ticker is indeed "DEC" and that he's a recognized
industry analyst...


- jeff_(adding to the LIVEWIRE editor slap fest)

    Just a quick note to say, as part of a recent project I've been dealing
    with an appreciable number of partner companies - mainly in the games
    and entertainment industry. Blank looks usually when we introduce the
    company as "Digital", but when we say "DEC" 75% of these people say
    "Oh, right DEC - yeah I've heard of you". It seems like most of our
    customers and partners will call us "Digital" when one of our "Suits"
    is in the room, but at all other times they just call us DEC. How
    strange that we seem unwilling to capitalise on that.
    
    Alan T.
    

    	I was listening to WAAF radio FM 107.3 out of MA this morning, and
    the DJs were talking about a woman recently accused of statutory rape
    on a 13-year-old Maynard, Mass. boy. In reading the details of the case
    out loud, where the woman was accused of various sex acts, including
    "digital penetration." One of the DJs said that he wasn't sure how
    Digital Equipment Corporation, based in Maynard, had become involved in
    this case. How's THAT for name recognition?!

    -1 Thud!!
    

    .276
    
    Only in Massachusetts .. uhm there is a world outside of there that
    would NOT have gotten the reference.

    A glossy mag with the cover story "Pattie's World" featuring Dr. Pattie
    Maes of the MIT Media Lab.  Maes is a guru of agent technology.
    
    There's a star-sticker emblazoned on the top right corner "New from the
    Editors of TIME" rendering the word TIME in their traditional font &
    color.
    
    As close as I can render it in ASCII graphics, the title has the same
    TIME logo rendered very small, the width of the "g" in the following
    word...  rendered in a far larger and more striking font...
    
    +-------------------------------------------...
    |        time
    |  d   i   g   i   t   a   l
    |
    |  Jun 24 '96   Time's Technology Supplement
    |
    :
    :
    
    I assume that The DIGITAL Mother Ship confidently expects the Legal
    Department to Do Their Duty.
    
             

    There's an article in New Media 12 August 1996 pg. 17 
    3D NT Workstations Challenge SGI
    
    In the table are the Competition.  Digital is listed as one of them but
    we're NOT going to get any business because they have the wrong URL.
    
    NEC is at www.nec.com
    Intergraph is at www.intergraph.com
    and Digital Equipment is at www.dec.com
    
    In a recent article on Digital Equipment Corporation's networking product 
    it indicated to call DEC at 1-800.etc. 
    
    Maybe we should wake up and still use DEC.
    
    	

    Just for kicks, I tried www.dec.com.  I get a network error when I try. 
    Couldn't Digital go ahead and set up the link so that accesses can be
    redirected?
    
    Steve

    $ nslookup www.dec.com
    Server:  localhost
    Address:  127.0.0.1
    
    Name:    www.digital.com
    Address:  204.123.2.49
    Aliases:  www.dec.com
    

    re: all those who say we should be DEC not Digital
    
    Give it a rest.  The people who control this decision have made it and
    aren't going to change their minds.
    
                                        August G. Reinig

If you use www.dec.com from outside the firewall, it connects to
www.digital.com. 

You can imitate the same thing from inside the firewall if you
change your "no proxy" field from "dec.com" to blank. 

Wes

    Customer who was connected via the ATT Worldnet Service indicated that
    it didn't work.  Maybe it was a glitch in ATT's service.
    
    I'll pass this along.
    
    	Regards,

    RE: .283
    
    Sorry but I doubt it will be given a rest or given up. No one, or
    hardly anyone, knows us as Digital or Digital Equipment Corporation.
    Everyone knows us as DEC. I gave up trying to tell people I work
    for Digital Equipment Corporation. When I say DEC people understand.
    So I've gone back to that.
    
    If the decision stands that doesn't make it right nor does it mean it
    shouldn't be talked about. 
    
    Jim C.
    

    I'm now on a crusade to bring back DEC as in my travels, DEC has more
    meaning to my customers than does DIGITAL...it shall be done..so be it.
    
    John B.
    DEC

    RE: .286/.287
    
    ** APPLAUSE **
    
    Laurie B.
    DEC

    Now if only we can convince the NYSE to use 7-letter company codes so
    we can ditch that old-fashioned DEC.  :-)
    
    Or maybe change the company code to DigItaL(bert).
    					-  -  -
    
    <grins>
    
    -markd

    The only time I've seen an issue with using "DEC" was a few years back
    when one of our guys signed in at one of the Nuclear plants as
    "Joe Engineer, DEC", and went about his business, fixing stuff.
    
    Until a "suit" read the the entry log and assumed that DEC stood for - 
    (D)epartment of (E)nvironmental (C)onservation, a sworn enemy of those
    who endorse nuclear power generation.
    
    He called out the (armed) guards to search the place and ferret out the
    intruder. They passed right by Steve, "Him? he's the computer guy from
    digital, that's not him."
    
    It ended well, but could have gotten ugly.
    
    .mike.

    
    I'm just completing a Masters desgree by thesis on
    
    "Network Management in the Digital Environment"  
    
    only the University insisted I change this to
    
    "Network Management in the DEC Environment"
    
    because "no-one will understand what the thesis is on otherwise"

    That's why the Universities charge the big bucks.
    
    They provide _practical_ guidance to the student.
    
    Yet it appears that for some, the lessons do not take.
    
    Remember when we were asked to survey our customers about wheather they
    though of us when they heard "digital"?  Could the surveyors possibly
    have received one positive response?
    
    Frank

All this chit chat about "DEC" as the only name understood by customers is
baloney.  I spent 5 years in another part of the country, IBM dominated area,
where DEC indeed were bad guys, as mentioned in a previous note, the Department
of Environmental Conservation.  I was quite surprised when I moved there and saw
a newspaper headline that stated "DEC approves hazardous waste site".  "Digital
Equipment Corp" on the other hand was a "company that used to make mini
computers, didn't it?".

My experience with customer type people is that you can tell how long they have
been in the business by whether they respond to "Digital Equipment Corp" or
"DEC", those responding to "DEC" have been in the business for over 15 years.
I find that even in the New England area "Digital Equipment Corp" is more
universal that "DEC" and I am running across more and more people that don't
know what DEC is.

Anyway does it matter what we call ourselves or what we do and are known for?

    Yes, I am also running across more and more people that dont know who
    DEC is. The sad part is they also dont know who Digital Equipment Corp
    is either. We are becoming an historical reference, not a relevant
    player in todays computer market.
    
    Sad.

>                     <<< Note 4033.293 by LEDDEV::BAKER >>>
>           -< "Digital" is sometimes better understood thatn "DEC" >-
>...
> Anyway does it matter what we call ourselves or what we do and are known for?

Of course it matters!  How can you be known for something if your name 
is imprecise or confusing?  How are the deeds attached to the entity
except by its name?
This is the whole point!

- tom]

                                                
    I recently manned a Digital Partner "counter" at the Microsoft booth at
    Canada COMDEX. Although it was a fairly subject analysis, in talking to
    people I found that words that people associated with us (hi to low)
    were:
    
    	1) Alta Vista - (we should leverage the heck out of this!)
    	2) Alpha
    	3) DEC
    	N) (way down list) Digital
    
    I personally feel that the attempt to officially convert our name to
    Digital from DEC has failed (if it was even noticed by many) and that
    most press / customers still know us as DEC - using the Digital name
    just adds confusion.
         	 

    Okay, so you say DEC and people know it's us.   That's great!  Keep
    using it wherever appropriate.
    
    However, there has never been a DEC logo that I've seen that is
    visually appealing.  Without a logo, advertising the brand accomplishes
    nothing.  We spent a lot of money to update and promote the digital
    logo.  Let's not do it again!
    
    Mark

>>We spent a lot of money to update and promote the digital
>>    logo.  Let's not do it again!
    
    I agree... and go further. We should NEVER have paid out the money we
    did in the first place. We paid a design firm more than we pay many of our
    staff for a year's work and what did they do? Change the colour from
    blue to purple (sorry, burgundy) - oh and rounded off the dots over the 
    'i's. It was outrageous!
    
    Tony I

    Yea, I've got a Digital... here on my wrist - it's a Timex.
    Oh, you mean DEC!  :-)

    
.283>   re: all those who say we should be DEC not Digital
    
.283>   Give it a rest.  The people who control this decision have made it and
.283>   aren't going to change their minds.
    
    See the discussion on the recent bonus "decision".
    
    I remain hopeful.
    
    
    DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DE
    C  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC 
     DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  D
    EC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC
      DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  
    DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DE
    C  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC 
     DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  D
    EC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC
      DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  
    DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DE
    C  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC 
     DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  D
    EC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC
      DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  DEC  
    

Re: .300

Huh, I can see the 'turnaround' now ;-).

	I've decided to tell people I work for Digital Semiconductor.  I seldom
get asked about layoffs anymore.

RE: .300

 I think you should re-read (or change) your personal name.


 :-)

    
    I'm not whining.
    
    I'm tilting at windmills.
    

Interesting interview with the media editor of the Independent
on BBC radio this (Mon) morning. He used "Digital" (with stress
on the D) more times than I could count and without any
qualification at any time (that I heard anyway).

So this is the next confusion after watches; maybe we should just
start a TV franchise and have done with it.

Peter

    re: .302
    
    >>     I've decided to tell people I work for Digital Semiconductor.  I
    >>     seldom get asked about layoffs anymore.
    
    I had a call from someone at "Digital Semiconductor" a few weeks back
    looking for help.   A major vendor (and customer) of Digital did not
    know who "Digital Semiconductor" was.  Our vendor's National Account
    team referred this person to their business office and refused to
    provide him with information and pricing.  One call to the sales office
    cleared this up, but you can see the problem this caused.
    
    

    
    I haven't had time to read through this string, but why the fuss about
    something so small (a.k.a. don't sweat the small stuff). There are far
    more important issues at hand.
    
    Digital Equipment Corporation a.k.a. Digital a.k.a. DEC
    
    Juz my 2 cents werth
    
    Bob

 >>but why the fuss about
 >>   something so small
    
    well, there are 2 possibilities:
    
    1) People are disposed towards making a fuss about a small thing.
    
    2) Other people don't think it's as small a thing as you do.
    
    Tony I  (PS I vote for 2.)

...because believe it or not, lots of people have heard of DEC and know it's 
stuff, and would be willing to purchase something from it (all things being 
equal), whereas a lot of people, if they've even heard of Digital, assume it's 
some completely different company altogether and wouldn't give it the time of 
day.

PJDM

RE:         <<< Note 4033.307 by N2DEEP::SHALLOW "Subtract L, invert W" >>>
    
>>    I haven't had time to read through this string, but why the fuss about
>>    something so small (a.k.a. don't sweat the small stuff). There are far
>>    more important issues at hand.
    
    Well, frankly, if you were to read all through this string, perhaps you
    would understand what the fuss is about, and why far from it being
    "something so small", and far from there being "more important issues
    at hand", in fact this is a fundamental thing, and a symptom of a much
    wider problem.
    
    Helpfully, Laurie.

    Hi all - here's a different perspective.
    
    Let's just rename it alltogether. Datsun became Nissan, and there are
    more examples. It will attract attention and we get a chance to
    reposition the company in the public view.
    
    Think about it.
    
    fl 0.02
    
    Andr� ;^)

> > but why the fuss about something so small
> 
> well, there are 2 possibilities:
> 
> 1) People are disposed towards making a fuss about a small thing.
> 
> 2) Other people don't think it's as small a thing as you do.

  Oh, I think it's a small thing, all right, and I've been one
  of the most vocal complainers. But it's a small thing like
  the nail that's mentioned in the old story:

    For want of a nail, the shoe was lost
    For want of the shoe, the horse was lost...

                                   Atlant

    > Datsun became Nissan
    
    As I understand it, they were already Nissan in much on the world, even
    though they were Datsun in the US.  They felt they had to settle on
    only *one* worldwide name, and they picked Nissan.
    
    -markD

The Nissan Cedric is an old Australian car (name revived by HG and Roy). They 
went to Datsun and back to Nissan.

It worked for them. Maybe biting the bullet and reannouncing ourselves as DEC 
might work for us too. Especially since DEC today is pretty different to the 
Digital that Bob Palmer took over.

PJDM

    As I understand it, trademarks are part content (the text - for example
    I couldn't cast "kleenex" in another font as a trademark) and part
    fidelity to the master (the carved masters that were the "digital"
    trademark).
    
    Does anyone know if "DEC" is already registered to digital or anyone
    else?
    
    If it is registered to digital, do we have master artwork?
    
    Curious.
    r
    

DEC has been a trademark of Digital's for many, many years. It may be registered
in some countries - we don't as a rule register trademarks.  But while a
logo graphic can be a trademark, a trademark can just be a name or phrase,
such as "DEC".  We have never, to my knowledge, created a graphic representation
of DEC.

			Steve

>             <<< Note 4033.315 by KAOM25::WALL "DEC Is Digital" >>>

"DEC" is listed as a trademark in the standard disclaimers of our manuals. I
don't think there would be any artwork because there is no official "DEC" logo
as far as I know.

-- Steve

RE: <<< Note 4033.316 by QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent" >>>

>We have never, to my knowledge, created a graphic representation of DEC.

I've seen older (1960's?) publications and product literature which had a
graphic DEC logo. I seem to recall that the letters were lowercase, oriented
vertically:

   d
   e
   c

and perhaps surrounded by some sort of individual borders, akin to but more
rounded than the rectangles that the letters of the "|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|" logo
uses. The letters were definitely lowercase, like the "digital equipment
corporation" notation which we used to use on publications, e.g., PDP-11 (or
"pdp11" as they themselves use) processor handbooks.
						-- Tom

    
    
    I believe the old building block modules had a dec logo in some form.
    This would be 50s/60s.
    
    
    ej

  Go see my web page for "dec" as a logo.

  I've got pictures of the "building block" modules.

                                   Atlant

    Re: .318
    
    And wasn't that d-e-c logo on the company's original stock
    certificates, as well?
    
    George

I've just received mail (official, but preliminary) that says that I'm
soon going to have to replace the references to "Digital" with references
to "DIGITAL" in our documentation. 

<sigh>

Art

(or is it ART?)

(or art or aRt... gee, who am I?)

    I was told _years_ ago that the proper form was:
    
    	Digital Equipment Corporation
    or
    	DIGITAL
    
    The use of "Digital" without the Equipment Corporation
    following it was improper unless DIGITAL was in all CAPS.
    
    

I vaguely recall that at some point we were told to change DIGITAL to Digital.

I sometimes think these changes come about because someone thinks the Tech.
Writers don't have enough to do.

:-)

joan

    Well my VXT 2000+ has a Capital Asset tag that has it as (digital).
     
                                              Charlie A
    

    It's obvious why we need to use DIGITAL instead of Digital.  The reason
    is that most video terminals have difficulty accurately recreating the 
    round dots needed in the "i's" in Digital.  So, we get around it by 
    using DIGITAL.
    
    Steve ;^)

    It looks like an attempt to avoid the unavoidable fact that the word
    "digital" is a generic adjective of little value in the IT world. It's
    easier than admitting a mistake in dropping DEC in the face of informed
    and well-reasoned opinion, and extant world-wide recognition, and
    having wasted millions of dollars.
    
    Laurie.

Damm! W're going to miss out on all the revenue we get
from walk-in repairs to digital watches, digital clocks,
digital thermometers ...

    common sense?
    
    (couldn't resist ;)

[I originally posted this in the DIGITAL_INVESTING conference, but it occurred
to me it would be more appropriate here.  My apologies to those who are reading
it for a second time.]

My kids were watching Spiderman the other day, and the villain commented to his
assistant (I think his official job title was "Henchman in Charge of Vice" or
perhaps "Vice President"):

	"All you need is a little ingenuity and 25 million dollars worth of
	Digital Equipment."

At least I *think* the capital letters were there... I *assume* he was talking
about buying stock...

:-)

						Brian

>My kids were watching Spiderman the other day

Oh, sure.  ;-)

-Patrick

Actually, I saw that episode, and as I recall, it was when the Hobgoblin took
over Fisk's control center.  The reference to Digital was generic, and was meant
to refer to computers in general.

ymmv,
--Scott

>> The reference to Digital was generic, and was meant
>> to refer to computers in general.

You perhaps missed the smiley face or the comment about "Digital Equipment"
being generic in the title?

						Brian

I guess I did.  If anyone is interested though, that particular episode is
rolling back around within the next few days on FOX.

    Oh sure.. Spiderman and Supervillians know who we are but I have to go 
    to the Collin County oversite board next week to explain that Digital
    Equipment makes computer systems just like Intel, SUN, HP and IBM...
    
    John W.

    izzat pronounced "COAL-in"?  possibly appropriate ...