Conference 7.286::digital

I know you're going to take this the wrong way, but you are not owed an
explanation of why a moderator took a certain action.  We certainly don't
do things on a "whim" - we have real work to do.  Sometimes we'll be able
to tell you if you ask, other times we won't (especially if the request for
action came from corporate management).

Please understand the following:

  1.  Notesfiles are not a democracy.  Votes are meaningless.

  2.  There is no "free speech" protection in notesfiles on Digital's
      corporate network.

  3.  The moderators are charged with ensuring that corporate policies are
      followed, and this includes directives from corporate management.  Our
      secondary responsibilities are to the noting community.

  4.  The moderators are volunteers who put up with an incredible amount of
      hassle out of the belief that the conference they run provides a
      necessary service to Digital's employees.


We would like nothing better than to never have to SET MODERATOR, but we
aren't always allowed that luxury.  The phone calls from Corporate Employee
Relations or Corporate Security are all too common, largely due to some
noter's indiscretion.

That this conference has survived for over ten years is in large part
attributable to the work the moderators have put in educating management about
notesfiles and putting out fires.  Certainly there have been some in upper
management who wanted to see it deleted.

					Steve

    Re .2:
    
    > 2.  There is no "free speech" protection in notesfiles on Digital's
    >     corporate network.
    
    Once again the moderators falsely deny their obligations.  Do you
    remember a charge filed with the National Labor Relations Board?
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

>>I know you're going to take this the wrong way, but you are not owed an
>>explanation of why a moderator took a certain action. 

Ya but what about "doing the right thing"?

bjm

    Steve,
    
    I'm just a lowly contractor here who has been fortunate enough to get 5
    year's worth of Digital (DEC?) culture in six months....Thanks to
    people like you who DONATE your time to maintain these notes files.  
    
    Personally, I accept and respect your comments that, if instructed to
    remove a note(s) by management, for whatever reason, you will do it. 
    
    Fighting to maintain the luxury, NOT the necessity of this forum is
    not worth risking your badge.
    
    Sign me, 
    
    Thankful
    
    gc

Z    I know you're going to take this the wrong way, but you are not owed an
Z    explanation of why a moderator took a certain action.  We certainly don't
Z    do things on a "whim" - we have real work to do.  Sometimes we'll be able
Z    to tell you if you ask, other times we won't (especially if the request
Z    for action came from corporate management).
    
    I can appreciate your position Steve.  On the other hand, I thought
    Digital had an open door policy.  Secondly, I once again submit to you
    that the tenets of the conference were not impeded againts as noted by
    a moderator in the Introductions conference.  
    
    -Jack

    "doing the right thing" may be shutting the whole thing down.  I don't
    know.  I would hate to think that something in a notesfile might lead
    to a lawsuit against Digital, damage awards, etc.  Upper management
    might be right.
    
    I thank the mods. for working to prevent this from happening.  Right or
    wrong, they are the first line of defense.
    
    Mark

The moderators spend more time and effort answering notes like this than they
would if they put in a short explanation when they take moderatorial action.
They end up putting in an explanation later (e.g. 3968.5), so I can't see
how they've avoided _anything_ by being secretive.

>    Personally, I accept and respect your comments that, if instructed to
>    remove a note(s) by management, for whatever reason, you will do it. 

	I don't think too many people are suggesting that the mods
	*shouldn't* do that.  

	The question is whether, in the absence of explicit orders to
	delete a note and then not talk about the deletion, whether 
	an "explanation" should be posted here.

	No, I don't think we are "owed" an explanation.  On the other
	hand, a quick note after the event would go a long way to head
	off the inevitable post-deletion discussions of "where'd the note
	go?", "are the mods high-handed?", "is a notes file a democracy?",
	etc.

	In this particular case, a note saying simply "deleted by request
	of Corporate Employee Relations" would have fitted the bill.

re .4,

You are not *owed* an explanation.  That does not mean you won't get one.  I've
been a co-moderator of this conference for a few years, and I've always been
impressed with the thought put behind actions like hiding or deleting notes. 
Much care is taken to do the right thing and notify the parties involved, if not
always the community as a whole, as to what happened and why.

As Steve said, we all have jobs to do.  Decisions are not always easy, but never
acted on without thought or consultation with other moderators.

Free and open discussion of issues important to us has to be tempered by
adherence to corporate guidelines and fairness to all.

Paul

ZZ    Free and open discussion of issues important to us has to be tempered
ZZ    by adherence to corporate guidelines and fairness to all.
    
    Exactly...which is the reason for the surprise that the note was write
    locked in the first place.  Whatever.
    
    -Jack

I very much appreciate the difficult job that the moderators of this
(and many other) notesfile do.

I will only point out here that making a habit of inserting a 1-2 line
explanation of moderator actions (whenever possible) would serve two
purposes:

1) In many cases it would forestall lengthy "How come I can't see that note
    which was written this morning?" discussions like this one.

2) It would serve to demonstrate by example which behaviors and actions
    are "over the line", thus hopefully resulting in fewer reoccurances.

Kevin

    3) It would result in endless second-guessing and discussion of the
       deleted note....
    
    				Steve

re .13

Very right, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

    Re .13
    
     Steve,
    	Don't you think there is second guessing now?

    	A quick blurp like:  Note 66.6 was deleted because the corporate
    Chaplain pointed out that the note violated the corporate Bible.  Any
    notes discussing this will also be deleted, please respect the Chaplain
    and the Moderators actions.  Have a nice day.

    Jim Morton

Re .9:

>	In this particular case, a note saying simply "deleted by request
>	of Corporate Employee Relations" would have fitted the bill.

In these cases, identify precisely who in Corporate Employee Relations has the
job of Relating with the Employees of the Corporation by accepting feedback.


Re .13:

>    3) It would result in endless second-guessing and discussion of the
>       deleted note....

Tell conference members with a bone to pick to take it up through those proper
channels.
				/AHM

    The wheels of social intercourse really do tend to turn more smoothly 
    wehn people take the trouble to explain why they are taking 
    particular actions and the the notes conference is no different. 
    I don't necessarily see this has anything to do with anybody 
    "owing" anybody anything.
    
    I think that Employee Relations passed up an educational opportunity
    by not providing a 1 or 2 paragraph explanation for the moderators
    to publish.
    
    I am not sure why it couldn't be the policy to indicate that a note
    has been removed on request by XXX.
    
    There is also a positive side to discussing why a note has been
    hidden/deleted: it serves to educate/clarify what bounds were
    crossed.
    
    re roelof

    ok.
    
    so why *did* Corporate PR request the note be deleted?
    
    
    just second-guessing
    
    :*)

re .18:
	If we start "guessing" here, this note will be write locked.  Lets keep
this topic free of guessing and speculation(sp?) as to why any action was taken
on any specific note.

    I moderate several conferences, and I follow some "rules" in these
    circumstances.
    
    I *never* set a note hidden, because the author can unhide it later,
    and I'll probably not notice. I always forward the note to the author,
    copying my fellow mods, and then delete it. There is, after all, a
    copy.
    
    If I do that to a note in the middle of a string, I post a note in the
    appropriate topic (usually called "Moderation issues" or similar),
    stating that the note has been deleted, and why.
    
    If it's at the end of a string, I don't post a note, unless it's been
    there a while.
    
    If I write-lock a topic I explain why in the appropriate note, and any
    discussion would continue in that place.
    
    In this case, I'd have made a statement like the one suggested a few
    back. Courtesy costs nothing.
    
    Laurie.

    Brent,
    
    If you would have taken the time to walk the short distance between
    your cube and mine instead of starting a topic in this conference, you
    would have discovered my PC sitting in pieces on the floor in my cube.
    I was attempting to resolve some hardware issues that prevented a
    software upgrade from completing properly.
    
    As a result, my only access to NOTES is via the VT320 that I can only
    reach by assuming a position somewhat resembling a swimmer at the start
    of a race.
    
    In the middle of all this, I was contacted by Corporate Employee
    Relations, which resulted in my second level management becoming
    involved in a NOTES issue and taking significant time from the job
    Digital pays me to do.
    
    The best I could do was do what I was directed to do by my management,
    notify my co-moderators and try to get network access restored ASAP.
    
    I'm going to stop typing now because my back is getting sore from
    standing in this position and I won't be back in this conference until
    I get my PC back on the net.
    
    Bob

    C'mon, Bob, you've known me for 10 years!  Ain't no bone I'm pickin'
    with you personally, you know that.  If you don't, I'm gonna take your
    PC apart again, so be good! :^]  IMHO, you've been a great mod.  I
    think many of us are just asking for a tad more courtesy and respect,
    and some consistency.
    
    As Laurie Brown said, "courtesy costs nothing".  I thought her note was
    thoughtful and obviously works very well for her as a moderator.  I
    would suggest it would work here, also.
    
    Certain moderators of this conference might find it also works better
    for them, saves time, creates good will, etc.  One moderator told me "I
    can and do delete notes at will without explanation or notification to
    the noter."  His capricious actions on one of my notes (he "didn't like
    it") caused me to file a greivance with the moderators as a whole, the
    end result being my notes were reinstated.  How much time did *that*
    save?
    
    Think about this, guys.  Asking for a one-line explanation and a
    consistent policy is *not* out of line.  Blasting notes, write-locking,
    etc. w/o explanation, IMHO, is.
    								Tex

    I understand where Corporate is coming from regarding the issue.  Maybe
    the issue which I believe was input anonymously by a moderator on the
    behalf of a Digital employee should have never been written into 
    the conference in the first place?
	
    Maybe anonymously entered notes which invoke a discussion  which
    fly in the face of the following statement from note 1 in this 
    conference need to be edited better before the discussion starts? 
    
1.0    DIGITAL'S INTENT CAN BE AN ISSUE IN LEGAL CHALLENGES TO ITS BUSINESS 
    CONDUCT AND MAY BE PROVED FROM STATEMENTS IN DOCUMENTS WRITTEN BY EMPLOYEES.
    

re .22,

Lozzer isn't a her, at least I hope not as she resembles a hairy rugby
player!  (Or Nigel Bates, for EastEnders fans. :)

Chris.

    You know I have always felt, and still do, that these notes conferences
    are a priviledge dealt you because you have a *job* here at Digital. 
    We are not the Washington Post, that is not our core mission as an
    enterprise, we make computers and sell software and solutions to
    customers who want out stuff.
    
    As such, we walk fine lines every day in our dealings with corporate
    information.  From what I have seen, no other company out there gives
    its employees as much lattitude and ability to express their feelings
    and beliefs as we do.  I mean you can go back into these note files and
    find the ranting and ravings of thousands.  It's like reading a history
    book, only better because it is *very rare* that anyone goes in and
    takes editorial license with anyone's opinions.
    
    The moderators do a super job.  They have to walk that fine line
    between doing what they are paid to do as Mr. Ainsley points out to
    acting as responsible and ethical editors like down at the newspaper. 
    The process of moderation is called Judgement (n) which according to
    the American Heritage Dictionary says, "The capacity to perceive,
    discern, or make reasonable decisions.  The act of or an instance
    of judging.  A decision, opinion, or conclusion reached after due
    consideration, esp. a formal decision of an arbiter or moderator.  A
    rough estimation or guess.  A judicial decision."
    
    The moderator's have given everyone the opportunity to drop a note to
    the editor to discuss their agreement or disagreement with how they
    exercise judgement.  But remember, there is a higher authorityu that
    everyone has to answer to in some fashion or another.
    
    Perhaps if we all exercise judgement in the way we present our views
    then the mod's won't have to do so much in exercising their judgement
    and have to answer to the George Orwell's upstairs over views in these
    conferences.  It's not a democracy folks, it's a priviledge, just like
    your drivers license you can loose it through the exercise of poor
    judgement.
    
    Mav

    
>    As Laurie Brown said, "courtesy costs nothing".  I thought her note was
>    thoughtful and obviously works very well for her as a moderator.  I
>    would suggest it would work here, also.

In some conferences, however, it's more like diaper changing than a 
courtesy.

    re: .1
    
    >> The moderators are volunteers who put up with an incredible amount of
    >> hassle out of the belief that the conference they run provides a
    >> necessary service to Digital's employees.
    
    Fair enough, Steve, and we appreciate it.  But if it turns out
    that in today's ::DIGITAL, we can't discuss anything more
    substantial or controversial than how great our TV ads are,
    or how great someone's management is, or who to contact with
    some sales lead, then one is left to wonder exactly what this
    "necessary service" has mutated into.
    
    If we're not informed exactly what conference guidelines or
    corporate policies were being violated here, then we're left
    to conclude that the answer is "none", and the topic was removed
    simply because of its controversial nature.  Beyond that, because
    we don't know what was wrong, we haven't learned anything and are
    likely to repeat the experience at some future date.
    
    Chris

     >    As Laurie Brown said, "courtesy costs nothing".
    
    In this case that is blatantly untrue - it costs the moderator
    the time & effort to formulate response.
    
    Having said that, I will vote with those who would like to
    see an explanation when a note is deleted.  That's my
    preference - but since the moderators are volunteers I'd say 
    it's really their call.
    

    If moderators are not willing to put the 'time & effort' into
    fotmulating responses then reliquish the mod hat and get out of the
    fire.
    
    Shaun

    
    If direction to a write-lock or delete a note is coming down from above,
    might it be possible for that person to write a few lines stating the
    reason for the action? Could that response then simply be cut/pasted in 
    the conference as a final reply to a hidden or locked note? This would 
    eliminate the burden on the moderator to compose the obviously desired 
    explanation, give the readers what they want, and redirect any objections 
    away from the moderator and to the one who ordered the action.
                                                                  
    -dave
    

>>    If direction to a write-lock or delete a note is coming down from above,
>>    might it be possible for that person to write a few lines stating the
>>    reason for the action? Could that response then simply be cut/pasted in 

Its been my experence that a good deal of "from above" happens over the phone
and not via electronic mail.

bjm

    re: .29
    
    Volunteering to moderate?
    
    gc

I'll be honest, in Digital's (and the U.S.A. 's) current atmosphere
I wouldn't moderate this file if you paid me. Digital clearly doesn't
pay these folks to moderate, they do it out of some higher interest.
If you don't like how the file is moderated, volunteer to join the
moderating team. I'm sure there's nothing more these folks would like
than to not have to worry if they'll be searching for new employment
because they were moderating a notesfile. I can just see telling my
spouse that I became unemployed over a notesfile, that would go over
real well... Don't say it couldn't happen, just remember the 3 G's.
Its not that there aren't things I wouldn't stand up for. This just
feels analogous to painting a real big target on your back and walking
through Sarjevo.

Thanks moderators, you're far braver than I am and your efforts are
appreciated, just keep the flak vests on...

Keith Comeford

    I moderate a file even more controversial and voluminous than this, and
    I've yet to suffer unduly from moderating in a considerate fashion.
    Yeah, it takes more time and effort to put in a quick blurb describing
    which notes is gone and why, but it ultimately results in less hassle
    of the moderating team. Frankly, it seems that certain moderators or
    perhaps moderating styles invite more criticism from the noting
    population than others. It sometimes seems as though these people want
    the control of being a moderator without being willing to put forth the
    effort to do the job considerately. Anybody can SET MOD and delete a
    note; that's not what makes a moderator. What makes a moderator is
    using common sense, even handedness, and courtesy to facilitate the
    exchange of ideas. Being a moderator requires patience, good judgement,
    people skills and a willingness to expend effort when necessary. It is
    not a job for everyone. People who are regularly "too busy" to give the
    requisite time and effort ought to consider giving someone else a
    chance. I personally find value both in allowing others to take a shot
    at the helm and in taking a rest from the responsibility of moderating.
    
     The Doctah

>    If direction to a write-lock or delete a note is coming down from above,
>    might it be possible for that person to write a few lines stating the
>    reason for the action?

It depends upon from whence it came. CER isn't exactly well known for making
clear, unambiguous statements which can be referenced when need be.

    
    
    #1 not posting an explanation simply means someone else will do
       the same "bad" thing, wouldn't it actually make sense to just
       tell us ONCE what was it that the note committed so we won't
       repeat it? 
    
    #2 it is rather ironic that despite a widely held believe that
       the powers-to-be (well, except for BP's rare exception)
       do not participate in nor are actually interested in our musings,
       would actually  be monitoring this conf. for censure/correctness.
    
       I doubt that it is the moderators themselves that do the watching,
       that's not a good use of your time, right?
    
       So I am curious who (not by name of course) actually do the
       policing?

    it's probably a WRONG ASSUMPTION that someone is tasked to monitor
    notesfiles and report to Corporate officials.  Much more likely this is
    the result of someone's complaint.  Corporate cannot ignore complaints.
    
    I am dismayed lately at the way people correspond thru this notesfile. 
    I thought that the "Digital way of working" included unity of purpose. 
    Even though we are individually diverse, we have a common goal.
    
    "Can't we all just get along?"
    
    Mark

    I'd love to think that examples of what not to do would prevent people
    from doing them, but in reality this doesn't work as the people who get
    into trouble either 1) don't read or 2) don't think it applies to them.
    
    In this conference, the primary way people get into SERIOUS trouble is
    by posting Digital Confidential material or memos without permission of
    the author (we often get a complaint from the memo author).
    
    I don't think it's unreasonable for the moderators to add a small note
    of explanation, especially for a topic that had accumulated responses. 
    We'll try to do that in the future.  But at any time, if you have
    questions about a note, please send us mail rather than asking about it
    in the notesfile. 
    
    				Steve

    re .32
    
    I've re-read my note and I can't find any reference which might suggest
    I was volunteering to moderate so i'm curious as to why you ask the
    question.
    
    Shaun

>    I've re-read my note and I can't find any reference which might suggest
>    I was volunteering to moderate

so we can all breathe a sigh of relief, then!

re. complaints,

It's my understanding that there are a number of RONs out there who trawl
through notesfiles with the primary aim of finding something to complain
to management about, whether they're bearing a grudge against a particular
person or just looking for something to stir up a bit of trouble I'm not
sure.  Anybody got any comments about this?

Chris.

    Re: .40
    
    I've never seen any evidence of such activity.
    
    				Steve

> It's my understanding that there are a number of RONs out there who trawl
> through notesfiles with the primary aim of finding something to complain
> to management about, whether they're bearing a grudge against a particular
> person or just looking for something to stir up a bit of trouble I'm not
> sure.  Anybody got any comments about this?

My lord, who has the time?

___Pete

re.40/41:

I'd say the majority of complaints made against notes in UK_Digital are by 
RONs. The next biggest group of complainers come from people who receive
unsolicited copies of the note via email or hardcopy from a RON. In many 
cases the correct course of action would be to reply and rebut the thing 
they don't like but they can't, after all they are RONs.

Dave.

    RE: .40
    
    I can tell you from experience that such people exist, and are still
    performing said actions.
    
    Laurie.

Re the last few replies: how sad.  Reminds me of Ambrose Bierce's
definition of Puritanism: the nagging fear that someone, somewhere, may be
having a good time.

___Pete

    Unfortunately, in a closed environment, we are all victims of the
    intelligence of masses.......but then I would say that.
    
    Shaun

Read Only Noter.

hth,
m.

If anyone's wondering what I meant by RON, it's a Read Only Noter.

(this is an example of a Write Only Noter! :)

Chris.

           ... .48 and .49 are known as a "notes collision."  :-)
    

Re:.49

    So; are you saying, Chris, that you enter replies to notes that
 you've not *READ*?!?

    ;-)

 Des.

Did somebody say something?  :)

Chris.

    RE. Last few. Wasn't there a 1950's hit that went - They do RON, RON.
    They do RON, RON. Or was that RON, RON get a-RON, I get a-RON. 
    
    But seriously folks, some of my best friends are RON's. In fact my
    daughter dated a RON once. 
    
    Well this string has certainly gone completely down the RON-hole. 
    
    Please write protect this before we hurt ourselves.
    
    -OFWAMI-                                                      

    Now 3974 has been write-locked by the moderators after the .2 response. 
    Why is this happening?  Is it because of .1 response indicating that
    the note and topic should really bein Digital_investing regarding the
    stock price?  Man it feels like that scene in Platoon where the
    soldier says to Tom Berringer the Seargent, "Man I got a bad feeling
    about this one..."
    
    As they said in a previous note somewhere:
    
    				Savoy 6, incoming.....
    
    Mav

        It seems as if one can't skillfully debate a topic, then the next best
    thing is to censor it.  Mind you, that this is just a feeling I get,
    and may not be the case.  Now what do they say about perception?

    On the other hand, I prefer Digital Notes Conferences to what I've seen
    on the Internet.  No moderation and a lot of trash.  Maybe a balance
    would be better (Just a Thought).

    Jim Morton

    Moderators,
    
    You're doing a fine job. No arguments from this noter on any of the
    recent actions under discussion here.

    Ditto - I couldn't help but wonder if they had even bothered to look in
    digital_investing, where a thread on their exact question is active.

    Some topics, "Why is the stock doing this?" being one of them,
    is not a topic that can be answered easily.  There are too many
    factors and the influences driving stock are too complex.
    
    And if there was a rumor effecting the price, it would certainly
    have hit this notesfile long before now.
    
    So, to ask that question, as well as "Does anyone know how the 
    quarter will turn out?", is pointless because none of the average
    Joes in here will have a definitive answer and speculation gets
    us nowhere!  Especially repeating the same thing quarter after
    quarter and (stock) fluctuation after fluctuation.
    
    It's all a waste of breath and gets old real fast...no matter
    how much one hits Next Unseen!!
    
    Sue
    

    If *anyone* thinks these discussions on stock price and quarterly
    earnings aren't helpful, they've not read, in full, Roelof's and
    Greyhawks in-depth analysis of corporate earnings based on Zodiacal and
    Astronomical occurrences. :^]
    
    Often, something humorous, educational, or informative comes from an
    otherwise *dry* topic.  I believe Mr. Lionel had threatened to
    write-lock a similar string before.  At least this time, we got a note
    of explanation.  Although I don't agree with the action, I do applaud
    the new accountability.  It's a step in the right direction.
    
    								Tex

    
    Roelof -
    
    	Please see Digital_Investing ;-)
    
    	BTW, I think the Mods are doing a good job; and Mods take all this
    stuff with a grain of salt. Year-end at Digital is always a little
    squirrely.
    
    	:*)
    
    			the Greyhawk

    The recurring question "Why is the stock going (direction)?" has,
    at its root, the implication that something happening here at
    Digital actually affects the stock price.  I have noticed, while
    watching shows like the Nightly Business Report, that the reasons
    they attribute to a swing in a stock price almost NEVER has anything
    to do with what the company is doing (or not doing).
    
    So, asking why the stock price has changed, with its implicit question
    of "Was it something we did?" strikes me as a complete waste of bandwidth.
    
    					andrew            

I just heard an analyst predict that Digital stock price
would move upwards in reaction to the mods of DIGITAL.NOTE
agreeing to enter a brief note explaining their actions,
every once in a while.

    Well, .-1, your analyst isn't worth his Gucci shoes. The _real_
    story (as provided by my analyst) is that premature write-locking
    reduces network bandwidth consumption. Consumption down,
    economic indicators down, investment climate down and finally
    stocks down. 

    "With the renuberation of fluctuating monetary indicators, especially
    those concurrent on the Pacific Rim nations, a national trend towards
    denefrection of..."
    
    Quotable quote: If you laid all the economists on earth end-to-end,
    they wouldn't agree on anything.

re .65,

� Which reminds me...how are the mods doing? :^)

Doin' just fine, thanks!  How are you?

Paul

    It's time for an air shredder Steve!

Yeah, that would be the ticket here, wouldn't it?

			Steve

>
>Yeah, that would be the ticket here, wouldn't it?
>

Are we getting into ticket scalping now?  ;-)

>      <<< Note 3969.66 by TP011::KENAH "Do we have any peanut butter?" >>>
>
>    The recurring question "Why is the stock going (direction)?" has,
>    at its root, the implication that something happening here at
>    Digital actually affects the stock price.  I have noticed, while
>    watching shows like the Nightly Business Report, that the reasons
>    they attribute to a swing in a stock price almost NEVER has anything
>    to do with what the company is doing (or not doing).

    It's hard to believe that the stock dropped from 190USD to
    18USD based on some market whim, with nothing to do with
    'what the company is doing (or not doing)'.

    In the past, Digital has proved incapable of offering wall
    street credible predictions of revenue, growth or profits.
    It's hardly suprising that the market is skitish every time
    digital burps.

    About the only thing digital has been able to accomplish with
    credibility is layoffs.  And, that took several years until
    promises of head-count reductions matched reality.   But, I
    guess practice makes perfect!

    The question that prompted this string asked about a $1/share shift in
    the price.  That's a short-term shift -- of course the company's
    actions will, in the long term, affect its share price.  However, this
    is generally because of what market analysts say, rather than on any
    direct action of this (or any other) company.

>    The question that prompted this string asked about a $1/share shift in
>    the price.  That's a short-term shift......

	look again....at its peak about the third week in May, the stock
	was up as high as 49.5 (I managed to dump quite a bit @ 48.625 ;-)...
	today it closed at 39.625; hardly a "short-term shift"...

	_kelley

    No, the original question (since deleted) asked about a $1 drop
    in the stock price.
    
    I repeat, the forces that drive shifts in stock prices rarely
    begin within the walls of the stock's company.

��      <<< Note 3969.78 by TP011::KENAH "Do we have any peanut butter?" >>>

��    I repeat, the forces that drive shifts in stock prices rarely
��    begin within the walls of the stock's company.
    Repeat it as many times as you'd like, it's still wrong.

    I suppose that if customers stop buying a company's products,
    the company declares bankruptcy, and the stock goes to zero
    then you are correct -- in the sense that the customers are
    outside "the walls of the stock's company".

    
>    I repeat, the forces that drive shifts in stock prices rarely
>    begin within the walls of the stock's company.
    
    I would change that to 
    
    I repeat, the forces that drive *DAY TO DAY* shifts in stock prices rarely
    begin within the walls of the stock's company.
    
    I repeat, the forces that drive *LONG TERM TRENDS* in stock prices
    always begin within the walls of the stock's company.
    
    Greg
    

    You're right, Greg -- you stated that before, and I agreed with
    it the first time you stated it.

	we are in violent agreement with respect to the actualities
	of day-to-day stock shifts....however:

>>    No, the original question (since deleted) asked about a $1 drop
>>    in the stock price.

	the original question, basenote 3974.0, has *not* been deleted
	although the thread was write-locked...

	furthermore, given the context of the title the author gave the
	thread, I interpreted the question to be why the stock had
	(once again) moved under $40 (when it had been up to $49.50)...
	this is a fairly significant drop that took place over the
	period of more than one month, include a fairly large one day
	plunge just after mid-June....

	*this* note started due to moderator intervention on a number
	of threads, 3974.* being only one of them....I am somewhat
	ambivalent on the topic of whether *significant* stock shifts
	could be discussed here or should only be discussed in
	NYOSS1::DIGITAL_INVESTING thread 10.*.....
    
	_kelley

>>>    No, the original question (since deleted) asked about a $1 drop
>>>    in the stock price.
>
>	the original question, basenote 3974.0, has *not* been deleted
>	although the thread was write-locked...

    You're right -- it wasn't a $1 /share drop, it was $7/8...
    
>	furthermore, given the context of the title the author gave the
>	thread, I interpreted the question to be why the stock had
>	(once again) moved under $40 (when it had been up to $49.50)...
>	this is a fairly significant drop that took place over the
>	period of more than one month, include a fairly large one day
>	plunge just after mid-June....

    Ah -- I don't follow the stock price on a daily basis, so the fact
    that it dropped below $40 meant little to me -- the last time I had
    noticed, it was hovering just below $40.  For my point of view, it
    was about a $1 /share drop.  
    
    As for one-day plunges, they happen -- sometimes they can be connected
    to statements from an analyst or brokerage, sometimes they can be tied
    to actions or statements from us (like earnings announcements) but most
    of the time they just happen, without connection to our actions.
                                                        

I'd like to commend the moderators for a fabulous job in this
potentially difficult area, given the purpose of this conference,
especially if they rename the subject of this topic to "Official
rat|black hole" or move these stock opinions to a more suitable topic:

  3346  LOVADA::SCHERRER     24-AUG-1994    27  Digital sells Olivetti stock
  3129  USCTR1::JHERNBERG     1-JUN-1994    11  Digital Stock Suspended??
  2713     ICS::DONNELLAN    14-OCT-1993    31  Stock drops 2 + points
  2626   A1VAX::MACDONALD    20-AUG-1993    42  Curious re Stock Price Rise
  2553     ICS::DONNELLAN    23-JUN-1993    23  What's happened to our stock?
  2462   ZPOVC::MICHAELLEE   10-APR-1993    22  DEC Stock - How low could it go?
  2202  LEPARD::SEKURSKI      6-NOV-1992    16  Stock price fluctuation indicating something ?
  1195    SAHQ::STARIE       20-SEP-1990    32  Stock Price < Cash Value
   946                        4-OCT-1989     4  Dec Stock Question.
   405                       20-OCT-1987    11  Digital stock down 42 shares...
   366  ARMORY::CHARBONND    14-AUG-1987    11  Stock to split ?
    75   NY1MM::MISRAHI      16-JAN-1986    49  Stock prices

Pete ;^)

    ...I can only second that commendation. Maybe we should start a
    separate Thank You, Mods note. That's probably one note that won't
    get write locked :-) :-)