Conference 7.286::digital

That **is** how we work here.  No-one knows the official
info they need to do their job, so they (we) ask in here.

    In my opinion, it's because Digital's internal systems have completely
    fallen apart and the people who kept them going have been terminated.
    I would hope that people are asking here are asking as a last resort,
    and not because they are too lazy to ask in a more appropriate place.
    
    Bob

re .0:

        My approach to this is to be tolerant of people using this
        conference to try to get their job done, especially when
        there isn't any (obvious) available alternative.

        Bob

    Given that reply .2 is from one of the moderators, does this signal a
    change in the moderation policy of this conference (see in particular
    note 1.last)?
    
    I agree that there are systemic problems (and perhaps discussion of
    that is appropriate herein), but this does not mean that this conf
    is a substitute for those broken systems. I (and I assume others) 
    check into this conference for other reasons (see note 1), and it is
    getting increasingly difficult and time-consuming to sift through all
    the "stuff" that has no relationship to the conference subject matter.
    
    Dave

    As one who recently abused this conference with a request for names and
    phone numbers for a specific account, I was surprised by the firestorm
    of replies that passionately trashed the existing infrastructure
    systems, including the VTX CALOOK application. I, for one, used this
    particular forum because it seems to be one of the more active forums
    in which you can still count on getting wide-spread exposure to folks
    who still know something about our business. 
    
    Having said that, I too have noticed that this conference has become
    entirely too serious and day-to-day business oriented. There have been
    some fun strings in here that were off the beaten business track. But,
    perhaps the days of having the time to prusue those strings is long
    gone. Or perhaps almost everyone with inclinations and the time to have
    those discussions are long gone in one of the more recent TFSO's.
    
    -OFWAMI-

    Whether or not this is partly caused by the TFSO activity is a 
    done issue.   The questions of who, what, where, when, why 
    and how of Digital are a part of this conference, although 
    I believe that better VTX infobases, or Mosiac home pages 
    may better serve has a clearing house for these common questions.  
    
    We have the network and the software - who can help us all? 
    
    Before, "stove pipes" were within smaller groups and funding,
    etc was not really a question.   Now it seems that entire
    functional organizations are the "stove pipe" and segmentation
    of entire organizations are forming.  People worry more about
    funding then getting the job done.   This vertical arrangement 
    is never good in my opinion and more tools which integrate orgainations 
    horizontally  would help.
    
    The question is who will actively identify common corporate wide issues
    like this and develop tools and information providing contacts to 
    populate and propogate?

    I believe questions regarding who does what in the company are directly
    related to "how we are doing business today."  I believe that if people
    have attempted to find information with no luck that they should be
    encouraged to put a note in here and let a fellow-DECCIE try to help
    them.  This conference is one of the few things we have going to keep
    our lines of communication open.  As we all know, things happen around
    here so fast we can't keep up.  One month so and so did this function,
    now he/she's gone and no one knows who is doing it currently.  Well,
    usually "somebody somewhere" has some information and hopefully that
    person is reading the file and will pop a note in to help out.
    
    I think when we are banging our head against a wall trying to find out
    something that will make our jobs easier, help out a customer or just 
    give us some personal information that we have been wondering about-its
    a relief to put a note in here and have someone reply and try to point
    us in the right direction or help try to clear something up.  I think
    it fosters morale too, which God knows we all need.   
    
    As far as having clutter in the file, there have been approximately 20
    new notes put in since January 3.  I have only been interested in one
    of them.  It took me approximately 10 seconds or less to hit the Next
    Screen and let the window scroll down to a note that appealed to me. 
    If the other 19 notes helped out a fellow Deccie than who cares about
    the extra 10 secondes it cost me??  There are always going to be
    entries that don't appeal to everyone, so my advice is to just skip
    over them move on to something else.  
    
    Yes, I miss the fun notes too.  But time is more critical than before
    and people are more stressed than before and I think, unfortunately,
    there just isn't a lot of good humor out there like there used to be.
    I'd like to see more of a mix in here, but I certainly don't think
    people are out of line or out of the conference guidelines by asking
    questions that pertain to their needing information about a particular
    topic.
    
    Renee

re: .4

If it was a policy change I would have been wearing my moderator hat.  However,
I suspect that we mods should discuss this issue.  Thanks for bringing this
to our attention.

Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

    Actually, I was quite pleased to see that we had a vehicle to share
    this type of information to allow people to get their job done. I
    believe it is one of the critical advantages we have left and we aught
    to make use of it - in any manner required - to keep our custoemrs, get
    new customers, et al.
         
    Chuck

    well, I guess it's up to the mods.  As long as I see a request like
    "looking for account mgr for Comuter Associates", I will check my
    sources and post a reply if there's a hit.  I suppose that some of
    these requests may be unnecessary, but how am I to know?
    
    Mark

    
     Well I for one, am glad that someone ( -OFWAMI- Note 3626.5 )
     has put their finger on the *major* problem of this corporation,
    
     >>> the lack of humour <<<
     
     Thinking back thru the notes history it finally occured to me 
     that one individual - and one individual alone - is responsible 
     for the great humour demise (GHD)
    
     and that individual is...
     
    
     \nasser
    
    
     Which now raises the issue of accountability. ( How can we have 
     profitability without accountability? :-)) How can we have humor
     without \nasser? 
    
     If anyone has a plan to restore DEC to its former humor greatness,
     then now is the time to step forward and articulate that plan.
     Until then, we should hold \nasser accountable and assume his guilt!
     :-)
     
     jc

Actually, we did discuss it some months ago.  What we wanted to do was set
up a single topic where people could post this sort of question and get
answers, with old notes being deleted.  We never got around to this.

While we continue to insist that DIGITAL is not a "bulletin board", we
understand that the company is falling apart and that we'll allow people to
use DIGITAL to find critical resources of this nature that they need.

					Steve

We *used* to have moderators who would tell all the people who were "looking
for" something to "take it to ASKENET" and at least write-lock the topic to put
an end to it.

So, is ASKENET an inappropriate starting point?  Many of the replies in this
topic so far don't display the faintest clue about that conference's existance.

Or don't we have any of those kind of moderators anymore?


If ASKENET is an appropriate starting point, then it's singularly inappropriate
to broadcast all these plaintive queries here.
				/AHM
P. S.  There would be even less noise for all the Digital conference members if
inappropriate notes were not just writelocked, but mailed to their authors with
a rationale and deleted wholesale.  However, that takes an investment of a
moderator's time in order to get that benefit for everyone else.

	I always thought that these types of questions were supposed to
	go in "Ask The Easynet" currently on CDSRV::ASKENET_V5...however,
	I think that the posters in question probably believe that the
	greater readership of this conference equates to a better
	possibility of results...certainly if left unchecked, that
	belief will become QED and the issue render moot....

	_kelley

    Re: Note 3626.11 by QUARK::LIONEL
    
�While we continue to insist that DIGITAL is not a "bulletin board", we
�understand that the company is falling apart and that we'll allow people to
�use DIGITAL to find critical resources of this nature that they need.
    
    I applaud this attitude, Steve. Thank you. Digital (the company) is
    still "home" to thousands of truly excellent people. While the
    infrastructure continues to get patched it's up to us who have real
    work to do to support each other whether or not the "formal" mechanisms
    are in place. The troops working together to solve our customers' (and
    our) problems will be the major reason for our ultimate success. The
    judicious use of DIGITAL (the conference) goes a long way towards
    providing this support.
    
    	BD�

    
    	Renee and Barry have hit the nail on the head, and thanks Steve for
    supporting their viewpoint. The way things are today getting people/
    responsibilities information that is current is almost impossible. 
    	Without this forum a lot of field types would probably just give
    up the ghost quicker than they are already.
    	
    	As for humor, did you hear the one about the CEO of a large
    unprofitable computer company...?
    
    		the Greyhawk

    
    The people network that has held Digital and the old Dec together
    is broken. And by June with 20k more gone....eeeeeck.
    
    And they thought computers could replace humans.
    
    ha!

    re: .15

    Barry, I fully support the idea of "The troops working together to
    solve our customers' problems", but there are other conferences
    chartered with fulfilling these types of questions. 

    The reason that DIGITAL has a large readership is because of its 
    (intended) subject matter; if however its real content changes
    (by policy, or by faite accompli as seems to have happenned) then
    that readership will change/drop; it's a self-defeating trend.

    Given the repeated refs to ASKENET, _why_ aren't people using it?
    
    Perhaps something more obvious like a DIGITAL_HELP or DIGITAL_BB
    conference, solely dedicated to internal queries (I believe ASKENET
    is open to any/all topics, Digital related or otherwise).
    
    From purely a 'housekeeping' viewpoint, perhaps some automated
    procedure that processed this conference daily and deleted all notes 
    older that say 48 hours with fewer than 5 replies (or some other 
    appropriate parameters). Generally, topics of broad interest in here 
    get a "large" number of replies very quickly, whereas the "other" notes 
    typically get only a few replies and are time sensitive (whether the 
    request for info is satisfied or not, neither the requestor nor the rest 
    of the noting community cares after a couple days).
    
    Dave

I see this an an issue of paths. How many times have you
been to some planed community or university campus and seen
beaten grass paths used while the lovely official sidewalks
lie unused? The grass paths are used because they work more
efficiently. Obviously in these troubles times the path in
the Digital notesfile works better than the official route.
This is not the time to stop something that is working for
those trying to get their jobs done. It also gives us a *very*
clear view of what is broken so we can discuss it. liesl

    As far as issues being old after a couple days and the noting community
    not caring.....I would guess that that would apply to about 3000 or
    more of these notes. We have notes in here from 1985. 
    
    As far as the more recent notes of people asking who is doing what or
    where can they find what....I think these would have value staying in
    the system (even if there are only 3-5 replies) because chances are
    high that someone else may need the same information and at least they
    can check here and get the answer with out starting up a new note.
    
    AS far as the ASKNET note...I personally never heard of it.   Possibly
    people aren't using it because they don't know about it.  They are
    checking in here for various things so they are just putting their
    notes in here.

    As the person who was looking for info on ENCORE, I can attest to the
    quickness with which info flows in this NOTES conference.  I have
    already gained a lot on info on ENCORE and the Digital relationship
    with ENCORE by speaking with Mike Collins and Bill Kimbel.  All of this
    happened in just a few hours.  Not only remarkable, but helpful.
    
    As for using ASKENET, it reminds me of SOAPBOX.  Some recent topics
    were:
    
    "Origin of Christmas Trees"
    
    "Classic Quotes in Everyday English"
    
    I am trying to get my job done.  I don't care about XMAS trees or
    quotes.  I really feel that work related questions will get attention
    in this NOTES file and who knows about ASKENET.  Serious people read
    this NOTES file and I get serious responses.
    
    

    I have and will continue to reply to notes where I am able to be of 
    help to those in need of information. In turn it is my hope that someone 
    will do the same for me the next time I need some help with something.
    We are all in this boat called Digital together so I'm asking those who 
    might disagree with this philosphy to put yourself in the other persons
    shoes for a moment and wonder what its like to have a customer
    breathing down your neck for an answer when you haven't the faintest
    idea of where to find it.
    
    (sorry - flame off)
    
    Barry Nestor
    Electronic Connection Admin/Tech Support
    
      

    
    I look at it as, when all is said and done, all we can really depend on
    is each other. There have been several occasions when having called
    everyone who SHOULD know the answer, I asked in this conference and got
    lots of very helpful replies, pointers and sometimes even the
    ANSWER.
    
    When success depends on you getting an answer to a question, you use
    the tool that will most likely get you an answer. 
    
    In alot of cases, this is the ONLY tool that will get you an answer. 

    Our organization publishes a guide called "A to Z Guide to Resources
    in Digital".  You can view it by typing VTX ATOZ.  The menu is self
    explanitory.  Changes are made almost daily, however, we submit the postings
    once per month to VTX.  
    
    Each listing is grouped alphabetically and we've gotten a lot of
    positive feedback.  We welcome feedback and updates from users.  I
    think you'll find it useful when trying to track down who does what in
    the company (but it doesn't list account managers).
    
    For that, I find the new version of VTX CALOOK quite helpful (although
    others may not).  It may not always be 100% right on (not much is in 
    today's environment) but it usually points me in the right direction and 
    contains more info than the older version.
    
    Regards,
    
    Don
    
                            

    re: .21
    
    FWIW, I like the idea of work-related queries coming up here.  For me,
    DIGITAL is where I go to hear and sometimes contribute in an open forum
    dedicated to Digital.  ASKENET diverges from that a lot.  Which is why
    I don't spend time there.  If DIGITAL can actually be used to
    (temporarily) fill in where other infrastructures are failing, more
    power to it!  Glad to have an open area for discussion that can
    influence the company for good.  Man, I miss DELTA ...
    
    Steve

    re: .20

    If you go back and look, a lot of those 1985 notes have 1993/4 replies.

    And I didn't suggest deleting all old notes; what I suggested was to
    delete notes that didn't produce at least some threshold number of 
    replies within some period of time (delta between base and last reply).
    A note that existed for X number of days and only got Y number of replies
    was obviously not of general interest to this conference readership.
    (This note has garnered 21 replies in ~4 hours).

    This would clear out these "where/who" questions that get only a few 
    responses in a short period of time and then go quiet, with no/minimal
    moderator intervention, thus reducing the clutter, and yet still allow 
    people to _ask_ these questions (assuming that is the moderators intent). 
    
    re: ASKENET - I agree with you about the 'flavor' of that conference;
    its part of the reason I don't monitor it, and conversly why I asked if
    there was a need for a Digital-specific "bulletin board" conference.
    
    I do not deny that there is a need; I question if this conference
    as it stands should be the vehicle for satisfying that need.

    Re: many -
    
    I agree that this conference seems to be a good place to look for
    contact names, sources, etc.  This conference is dedicated to how we
    work, and trying to muddle through the complex maze of non-communication
    is one of the ways we work.  This conference is also a one-stop
    shopping approach.  I can't think of any other conference within
    Digital that is accessed as regularly by as many reasonably well
    informed people from such diverse organizations as this one, except
    possibly SOAPBOX, which, obviously, is a completely inappropriate forum
    for "who does x?".
    
    Strictly my opinion, of course.  I would hope that the mod's leave
    things as they are.  A central topic might not work as well, because
    not all of us read every unseen note every day.  Certainly, though,
    nearly everyone checks out the newest topics to see what is going on.
    
    M.
    

    Glad to see there are a few other \nasser fans in here :-)
    
    If you are new to the conference (and not humor-impaired) check
    out anything by STAR::ABBASI.  His entries on DECturkeys and
    digDECital, DECdigital or digitalDEC as our new brand image are
    classics IMHO.
    
    

    
    Ayup. Classics and he ain't even deceased.  :-)
    
    I wonder what he'd say about the new signage that is going up around
    the GMA sites. My favorite of course is MSO2 which is now identified
    as "Corporate Headquarters".  [ Guess you can't tell the players 
    without a score card. ]
    
                     ***********
    and BTW, the new * QUANTUM *  sign that replaced the SHR1&2 older
                     ***********
    di(with the square i's)gi(with the square i's)tal sign is high profile!
    [ it may also be the source of the ASKENET question " Why is
      aluminum foil shiny/dull ... ]
    
    jc
    

RE replies about ASKENET - It was never meant to be a Digital-specific
conference.  As I recall from the early days of ASKENET, it was
started to be a general-purpose conference for those nagging questions about
which you'd always wondered, and for which a specific conference didn't exist. 
If I remember correctly, it's based on the concept of the "Ask the Globe"
column in the Boston Globe newspaper, wherein readers write to get all sorts of
miscellaneous questions answered (hence the name "Ask the EasyNet"
or "ASKENET").

Aha, I'm right - this is from note 1.0 of the ASKENET_V1 conference (from Feb.
1984):
"This NOTES file is intended as a place to get your questions answered.
It is intended as an electronic equivalent of "Ask the Globe" (a column in
the Boston Globe)."

This statement has evovled in ASKENET_V5 to:
"ASKENET is a general purpose question and answer conference."

People who ask Digital-specific questions in ASKENET often have been directed
to the DIGITAL conference...

-- Nina

    Okay, I've read enough...
    
    Re:  .12 --- don't bash the moderators!  We have EXCELLENT moderators!
    
    Re;  .0 --- why do you care?  Will it KILL you to browse by the the
    notes which don't interest you as another noter suggests?  Hit the next
    unread button!
    
    Re:  .11 -- Hear Hear!!!
    
    Re:  .20 --- Like you I've never even heard of the ASKNET note...and 
    after seeing the Xmas tree topic in there ... guess it's no big loss!
    
    OKAY...Flame off...
    
    Now, having been one of the people who has entered notees in here that
    the basenoter has problems with, I will explain why "I" do it here!
    
    First of all, my most recent note about who's who anymore. where I was
    trying to locate who in the company supported the problem I was having. 
    By the time I entered that note I had talked about about seven
    different groups in the company who, in my opinion, *should* have known
    the answer, but all I kept hearing was, "I don't know."  Or, "I don't
    know...with all the reorgs, I have no idea WHO it is anymore."  Someone
    called me and said that my entering that note got people into
    trouble...
    I snapped at him, "What was I supposed to do?"  
    
    I can't tell you how frustrating this company is any more!  I used to
    know where to find the answers, who to call, what databases to access. 
    Now we get told the databases are giving either inaccurate pricing, or
    their broken, or they aren't there anymore.
    
    How about my recent note entry about calling pre-sales support about a
    customer question and hearing from every group ("press 5 to talk to...")
    that the people who knew that HAVE ALL BEEN LAID OFF!
    
    I use this conference as a place to ask because it has such a wide
    audience.  Like a previous noter mentioned, I figure somebody SOMEWHERE
    has to know who I should call, contact.
    
    Referring back to my recent entry seeing internet help...it got the
    problem resolved!  Logging a hotline call through formal channels
    electronically didn't, nor did talking to Colo spgs, or any of the
    other groups.
    
    When people called me they said that someone had seen the note and
    referred them to me to try and help me!  It got EXACTLY the results I
    was seeking in fixing a problem!
    
    To me this conference is one of the best sources of information on a
    variety of topics.  If I wanted it to only be concerned with one topic,
    I'd select the topic and change the name i.e. skiing
    
    I hope the moderators do NOT change the rules...this is one of the only
    tools we all have left!
    
    As for GLDOA::WERNER...and greyhawk...
    
    you guys spice up the topics with humor!
    
    so just cause /nassar is gone doesn't mean humor's dead...
    
    ;^)
    
    

    So if 
    
    (a)  asking general who-what-where questions are outside
         the scope of this conference 
    
    (b)  the service is considered necessary
    
    why doesn't someone take the step of creating a new conference
    for (b) ?
    
    My opinion:
    
    I'd rather not see the who-what-where questions in here, because
    they're never anything I'm interested in or care anything about.
    But I am not "anti" enough to tell the posters to bugger off if
    they've got nowhere else to go.
    
    Of course, chances are a notes file set up just for (b) would collapse
    from information implosion - all takers, no givers.
    

    re: .31 (and others)
    
    It's clear _why_ people are doing it; but if what you are looking for is
    a conference with wide readership (and hence a good chance you'll find
    someone "in the know"), why not use SOAPBOX or some such conference?
    
    Oh, because SOAPBOX isn't an appropriate forum? That's exactly the
    point; read 1.0 and 1.18 herein; It has been stated that such notes 
    are not appropriate in here either...
    
    So the options are (1) setup a conference with that charter, say an
    ASK_DIGITAL conference, or (2) change the stated policy/charter of this
    conference to effectively turn _it_ into the ASK_DIGITAL bulletin board.
    
    Personally I would prefer (1), and perhaps HUMANE:: could accomodate
    it, but if (2) is the decision of the moderators/sponsors, I hope that 
    some procedure is also instituted to purge the clutter periodically.
    
    Dave

    Language evolves and meanings of words change; companies evolve (!!);
    conferencing environments evolve.  ::DIGITAL clearly has evolved, and
    notwithstanding all the definitional/logical/legalistic rear-guard
    actions imho intended to forestall that change, it will keep on
    evolving.  Into what the social organism (unconsciously or consciously)
    wants it to.  Sweet are the uses of the NEXT UNSEEN key...  imho! :-)
    

    If everyone else's network of contacts has shrunk as much as mine has,
    there clearly is a need for some means of obtaining information. Not so
    long ago, I had two main means of information:
    
    The first was the large number of people I have come to "know" over the
    years, and through whom I could track down almost anything via the
    friend-of-a-friend route. That network is far, far smaller than it ever
    was.
    
    The second was historical information and real-live experts in
    technical conferences. The former will hopefully be there for "ever"
    (although I've heard tales of valuable technical conferences simply
    disappearing shortly after their owners/sponsors). The latter? Well, we
    all know what's happened to many of those experts.
    
    I think that the spate of "who/what/where" type notes in this
    conference, and, I might add, in the UK equivalent, indicates that
    indeed, many people's traditional means of obtaining information has
    suffered in exactly the same way that mine has. This, I contend, is
    very much to the detriment of the Company.
    
    So, <KP,> aside, I think there probably is a need for either a
    DIGITAL_BB conference, or the remit of this conference to change to
    allow such use. Clearly, without some means of finding who/what/where
    type information, the Company will fall apart almost overnight.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

re: .32

>    Of course, chances are a notes file set up just for (b) would collapse
>    from information implosion - all takers, no givers.
    
And there is the major problem with having a conference specifically for
this.  It would largely only be read by people *looking* for info.

-Hal

    ::DIGITAL -- A classic case of an "information market" being defined by
    the proximity of both buyers and sellers (sources & sinks) of info.
    

    Well, I hope the original complainers are happy.  This near-rathole has
    taken up more notes that the last 10-or-so requests for "who handles
    blah blah..."
    
    It's nice to see this little evidence that somebody's taking care of
    business in the midst of our ranting and raving.  Puts the whole
    conference in a more positive perspective -- and, at the same time, says
    more about the corporate systems, or last of same, than 20 notes of
    angst.  It's also but a blip in the conference bandwidth.
    
    Keep 'em coming, and let's peddle some iron!  (Or whatever it is we
    do.)
    
    -Mark

    I too actually quite like these Looking for Mr Goodbar blips
    coming on my screen now and then. It gives me the luxurious
    feeling that while I'm here composing esoteric sentences there's
    someone out there busting there butt to pay my salary :-)

    
    	That's nice, I'm glad other DECies are appreciative of those of us
    who actually sell things, like Alpha, for a living. It helps pay my
    salary (what? You get a salary?) too.
    
    		the Greyhawk

>>    Well, I hope the original complainers are happy.  This near-rathole has
>>    taken up more notes that the last 10-or-so requests for "who handles
>>    blah blah..."
    
    Since I'm the "original complainer", I take exception to this being
    a "near-rathole"; This note has been about this conference and by
    implication "the way we work", which is just about as in-line with
    the conference policy as you can get. And the fact that there have
    been many replies indicates it _is_ a topic of general interest.
    
    Further this note and the issues it discussed has certainly provided
    valuable feedback to the moderators/sponsors, who stated in an earlier
    reply that they would discuss the issue. 
    
    At this point I'm content to await their decision, and in any event I
    will abide their decision//the conference policy (though I hope that
    they will set up a seperate conference, at least for a trial period).
    
    Oh yeah, re: .32 - many folk in the string have professed a desire 
    to help out their fellow digits; I would like to believe that if an 
    ASK_DIGITAL conference _were_ created, that we would all make it a 
    point to monitor it in order to avoid the 'write-only' scenario.
    
    Dave

	Speaking as an ASKENET moderator and the current host...

	We often point folks with questions pertaining to Digital to this
conference because this conference is more work-related and ASKENET is more
employee interest.  Often people who don't sit at the tube all day have rather
limited time to note. These folks are probably more likely to read a conference
like DIGITAL than ASKENET, and are often the folks who know the answers to "Who
is the account rep for MegaCorp?" type questions.  Also, while ASKENET is a
world-wide audience, it does seem to have a US bias (and there's a EURO_ASKENET
conference) so I think this conference has a more world-wide audience.


						--Doug

RE .32

    Dave,  I second your opinion.  "Information implosion":  Well put!

    How about a where to look for help note in this conference that lists the
    ASKNET's etc and other sources of help in Digital. The corporate memory
    is getting Alzheimers (temporarily I hope) with all the downsizing that
    has happened. This conference is a lifeboat that will help us get
    through until the brain damage is repaired.
    
    Mixed Metaphorically Yours,
    
    Joseph 

    I think I've already made my point in .31 that I think this note should
    remain the way it is.
    
    .0 --- I still don't get it...WHY DO YOU CARE?  Does it bother you that
    things you aren't interested in seeing are in here?  
    
    You know what?  I'm not interested in most of the tax discussion notes
    that go on or the notes which complain abour our incredibly shrinking
    benefits or stuff like that.  But I don't complain that it should be
    put in a benefits notes file...
    
    I just don't get...what is your point?  Is using the next unseen key
    THAT HARD to do????
    

Re: .44

Nobody reads the informational/instructional notes we already have, why would
they read another?

					Steve

    Is this the right vehicle to air petty grievances about how others
    use the notesfile? 

    I am guilty of asking for site references.  However, I only put my note
    in here as a last resort.  I got no response in the DWT notes
    conference and I can never get to the node that the REALTIME conference
    is on.  The only people who used to call on the County or utility
    companies out here have all been terminated.
    
    							Michael
    

    I'll add my 2 francs worth to the squabble....
    
    Recently I tried to update an internal doc I wrote concerning the doc
    and s/ware submission process to ESC (was ESSB). 
    
    So, I turn to my trusty notes conferences dealing with the subject,
    only to find they are "remote nodes unknown" or have stopped
    functioning as conferences (the submission process has changed about 12
    times in two years, with contacts disappearing, groups disappearing,
    quality controls disappearing).
    
    I had to track down new people via numerous phone calls and odd notes
    here and there. A conference such as this, with a mix of personal
    interest (to act as appetisers) and technical stuff is one of the most
    valuable assets this company has for keeping people in touch, and
    hopefully will act as a seed bed for reviving spin-off conferences as
    this company picks up (or not).
    
    Martin, who is also about to disappear at the end of the month, taking
    with him the knowledge of how to submit, 'cos no one at this site wants
    to learn how to do it even though we submit several products each year. 

    People who answer requests are happy to do so and people who ask, need
    the information quickly.  
    
    Quit complaining and hit the nu key.
    

    As a avid reader of this file, I also would like to keep it just the
    way it is.
    
    It is my opinion, that one of the largest problems we have internally,
    is not knowing the work done, reasons behind the decisions, etc. in 
    many of the areas of this company.  There seems to be so many erroneous
    perceptions that have been portrayed by employees in one area, to the 
    work being done in other areas such as Sales, Margeting, Manufacturing, 
    Sales Support, MCS, Decdirect, Fulfillment operations, Distribution, etc.
    
    I have learned much from reading the notes in this file, and have 
    gained a different perspective of the problems, as well as
    understanding the success stories that have evolved.
    in different areas of the business.                 
    
    I have little technical know-how in locating many of the areas of
    expertise that have been suggested by some in this file.  Not everyone
    that works for Digital has a Doctorate in VMSology.
    
    While there are many suggested areas to obtain info, most people
    requesting help did not know that the area suggested was available.
    (Must be why they asked for help???)
    
    Also, the generally agreed on area to obtain help in solving a
    particular problem is not always able to help.  How many times have Sales 
    gone to DecSale, however DecSale cannot give them an answer, or a Customer
    is transferred to TCC, (Technical Consulting Center for customers), and
    no answer is found?  How many Customers, Employees, and Internal Cost
    Center reps have transferred to the Atlanta/Colorado hotline for post-ship
    support, and have been unable to get answers, because they did not buy
    software support or on-site hardware warranty?
    
    Now, I am not taking sides on the goodness/badness of above, however, I
    am congratulating the contributing noters of this file for being able
    to get answers for people in need, when everythin else has failed. There 
    is more then one way to skin a cat, and numerous times several data
    sources and solutions have been suggested to solve complex problems.  
    
    I salute the moderators of this notesfile, and thank all who have tried
    to help us few who have no Doctorate in Engineering/Marketing/etc.
    
    Randy
    
    
    

    You are in a maze of twisty little passages...
    You are in a maze of twisty little passages...
    You are in a maze of twisty little passages...
    You are in a maze of twisty little passages...

    It's difficult to decide either way. On the one hand I've found
    many useful pieces of information, that as others have pointed 
    out is difficult to get from other places (ie, just *who* do 
    you ask?). On the other hand, the sheer number of notes in this
    conference, of which a fair proportion can be requests for 
    information can mean it takes a very long time to read all the
    unseen notes in this conference, especially if you aren't able
    to read it every day or have slow network response if you're
    not in the US.
    
    Jane.

re .52:

the Dungeon maps are a lot more stable than our Org charts...