Conference 7.286::digital

	re: .0

	Please don't read these dang "1 Minute Manager" books and then
	post this sort of thing !

	We cannot change things at DEC.  If you feel otherwise, then
	try, just try to make one substantive change.  Say, the way
	*another* group does business with your group....  Even if
	it's inefficient, drives customers away, and costs $ 100 million
	per year, I GUARANTEE that you will not be able to change
	this one thing.

	You see, management at DEC is focused upward, at each level's
	own managers.  Things must look good UP the line, regardless of
	the existence of any cesspools at the customer or operations
	levels.

	Since everyone is kissing the seat of the person above him,
	the guy at the bottom holding the ladder is ignored and
	frequently warned to shut up.....can't disturb the folks on
	the ladder.

	If you think you can change something, go for it, but don't
	come crying when you find that all they'll let you comment
	on is the color of the drapes....

	Steve H

       
       RE: .1 
       
       That may be true in some groups (ok, a lot of groups), but I have
       seen the "person holding the ladder" change things. You just have
       to change things a little at a time. Huge changes all at once are
       hard to swallow (even for the "little people"), but gradual changes
       can be made, if it's done the right way.
       
       			->Jay

    This is certainly an interesting question and one that bears thinking
    through. It is clear that an articulation of corporate
    goals/strategies/hopes and direction from the senior corporate staff
    members will not happen during our life time. I may be biased, but part
    of this comes from the lack of any sales experience or street smarts on
    the part of this isolated group.
    
    With that in mind, I'd like to suggest a couple of things to get the
    conversation going. The first is is what I'll call Shock Leadership.
    The second is Franchising. Let's look at the first - Shock Leadership.
    From what I've seen, this company is doing a poor job of percolating
    talented people up through the ranks. Development from within is just
    not happening on a planned, consistent basis. What would be wrong with
    tapping, say, a Sales Unit Manager on the shoulder and saying, "You're
    now in charge of marketing." Likewise, we would knock on a Vice
    President's door and say, "Run an EIS delivery unit in Dallas". Each
    stint would  be for 2 to 3 years. I can go on and on about the why and
    the wherefore, but I'll hold off on monopolizing the conversation.
    
    With Franchising, a local sales office takes total control and
    responsibility for the marketing and building of its business in its
    area. The demographics in Cleveland, for example, are different from
    what you'll find in San Francisco. So, turn the local talent loose to
    promote, sell and customize their business for the local market.
                                        

    There is no way "the bottom" of the company can save the top from its
    own slow self-destruction.
    
    Their entire world-view, their unexamined beliefs, of the entire
    business and usage of computing in the world are profoundly wrong.
    
    The greater morale problem isn't based on quarter-to-quarter financial
    performance but on a total anxiety that while Microsoft, Apple, IBM,
    and Sun might not be perfect, at the top, their leaders have a
    forward-looking vision of computing that makes sense to customers,
    employees, and shareholders which Digital lacks.

    re: .1
    
    I recognize that the task is difficult and I fear many have had the
    kinds of experiences that seem to be embedded in your note.  I too have
    had those experiences, in a number of different settings.  
    
    On the other hand, as .2 suggests, change occurs in small, incremental
    steps and before we know it, the entire system has changed.  Witness
    the suggestions in .3 - position exchange (shock leadership) - that
    alone could change this company.  Most people at the top do not have
    the data - because no one will tell them - from which they can make
    intelligent decisions.  They therefore have to guess or rely on their
    own experience way back when and then maintain the appearance of
    knowing what they are doing.  Their data is old.  Many sales strategies
    have been tried in the past four years which the average person in the
    field knew, I say KNEW, were bogus and unworkable.  Yet millions of
    corporate dollars were spent and no one (a slight exaggeration) said
    a thing.
    
    .3's other suggestion - Franchising - would cause each group (district,
    whatever) to figure out for itself why it was in business and what it
    needed to do in order to thrive.  We could do that now - Shel Sherman
    in Los Angeles already has.  But most of us have been conditioned to
    function as obedient servants to an all knowing corporate structure. 
    These all-knowing corporate structures have very limited lifespans. 
    The fortune 500 is 75% changed from the 1950's.  Company's die all the
    time and we, the employees, witness the death, understand why it is
    happening, and do nothing about it.
    
    Put another way, my collusion with the status quo may be responsible
    for my neighbor's ( or mine) lay off.  I don't want that on my
    conscience, but I agree with .1 - this is not an easy nut to crack. 
    Maybe it's so difficult because we don't feel comfortable even
    discussing it.
    out for itself

    
    Please don't put VPs incharge of EIS units (which are now variously
    known as EIS, SWS, Digital Services etc, thanks to previous assistance
    from the top.)
                                   
    EIS used to have a pretty good business, but thanks to re-org after
    re-org, it is pretty well screwed up now. 
    
    We don't need people with no clue running the show so that they
    can get their education by screwing up successful businesses.
    
    If we all pitch in and do what we think is right the company
    will be pulled in 100,000 different directions, and customers
    will see confusion, inconsistancy, and disorginization. Isn't
    that what is happening already?

    
     Pretty much determined at this late stage of the game. We will just
    keep shrinking until we reach the level of our performance in the
    market place. Unless we have some secret weapon that nobody else has,
    which is truly hard to believe based on the rapid pace of technology
    around us. Consolidating-shrinking, doing more with less, thats
    more-or-less the name of the game. 
    
    

    You've missed my point, or maybe, I've failed to explain myself
    clearly. Just as the politicians inside the Beltway around Washington
    D.C. don't have clue as to the real world impact of their decisions (or
    lack thereof), our corporate leaders huddled within I-495 share the
    same perspective. At some point in time, executives need to understand
    the impact that their jobs have upon thousands of non-executives. They
    also need to understand the business that we're in....up close and
    personal. Likewise "non-executives" in the field have absolutely no
    basis for understanding why some/all/none of the things that we do on
    a day to day are relevant for achieving corporate goals. The fact is, if
    you wait for someone to follow the channels and get promoted into a
    position of corporate authority, it takes too long....for the people
    and for the business. You can't wait for someone to be a leader. You
    hire talent, turn it loose and let the talented and the passionate try
    to make a difference.
    
    To introduce a new topic, since the original note asked the question,
    "What would we each of us do if we were the CEO?"....I'd ask the Board
    for the right to grant a dividend on Digital common stock. The stock
    will find broader appeal among a wider audience. With interest rates
    and fixed investment yields down, we could offer a very modest dividend
    and still be competitive with these other instruments. Additionally,
    folks who receive a dividend stream of income (pension funds and
    retirees) are very vocal about corporate non-performance. They would
    consistently hold our feet to the fire. In the short term, though, the
    infusion of cash from an initial offering would add stability to the
    firm. 
                                                                         

    re .9
    I agree.
    
    It is very easy for each of us to say its not our problem.  But each
    and every day we face decisions on how to do our own jobs.  Each of
    these decisions  can be looked on as important to the future of the
    company.  Each time you say its not my job, you make it just that
    much harder for someone else.  Each time you take a narrow view of
    your responsibility to the corporation, you are part of the problem.
    
    I sincerely believe that each one of us has all the power we need, if
    we would just use it.  I think we take no for an answer too quickly
    because its easy and then we complain.
    
    To answer the question, what would I do if I were the CEO - I would 
    change the measurement system in the corporation to reward initiative
    and to make managers behave as leaders.  I would spend a great deal of my
    time talking to the folks who do the work, because we know what the
    problems are and how to solve them.
    

    re:.9
    
    I don't know if we're the problem or not, but I remember reading a book
    called "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People." (I think that was the
    title)  anyway one of the examples he gave was about leadership,
    management, and labor and the function of each.  Labor's job is to
    clear the forest.  They are given machetes, axes, etc. and are told
    where to cut etc.  Management is supposed to make sure that the
    machetes are sharpened, axes are fixed, and generally make sure that
    the clearing job is done in the most efficient fashion. (this includes
    purchasing, engineering, personnel, etc.  Leadership is the person in
    the organization whose job it is to periodically find the tallest tree,
    climb above the day-to-day hacking, and look around and say, "We're in
    the wrong forest."
    
    If we've been hacking away in the wrong forest, or haven't had people
    who could climb up that tree and evaluate the direction, I don't
    believe it is the fault of the people hacking away.  IMO
    
    Dave

    re .11
    Fault is not an issue. Whatever that book was, I would suggest strongly
    that it be allowed to gather dust.  If you want to be a mindless
    automaton be my guest.  If I came to work each morning expecting the
    orders to be issued instead of being able to use my creativity and
    resources to get a job done, I wouldn't be of much use to anyone.  
    
    Those managers who are making the decisions in your example are missing
    out on the greatest source of information - the people doing the work.
    And we as workers are missing out on the greatest help we can be which
    is to advise on what we know best.

    Maxine makes some good points in responses .10 and .13. It also gets
    closer to the heart of the original question as posed. In my humble
    view, I have all of the power that I need to make my work/job whatever
    I want it to be. I assume no boundaries or constraints. If a decision
    that I make is inconsistent with some higher organizational goals, then
    I fully expect my management to correct me, teach me and let me keep on
    going. in football, it's the referee's job to decide when a player has
    stepped out of bounds. Until told otherwise, it's the players job to
    continually give his/her best effort and keep on using all talents and
    abilities....in other words - keep running hard and fast.
    
    As soon as we start to believe that we are merely what our job title
    says we are, be it engineer, secretary, consultant, technical
    specialist or whatever, we unfairly limit what we feel we can do. I'll
    tackle anything that holds promise to be fun and personally and
    professionally  profitable. In short, my vision for myself is larger
    than Digital's  vision for me. But that's fine. That means that I have
    power and that I can use the resources of the organization to grow. If
    what I do is successful, then the company will be forced to grow in
    order to keep up with me and to meet my demands.In the final analysis, 
    both DEC and I win. 
    
    Something tells me that Maxine and many others feel the same way.
    Come on folks...life is too short for us to be told exactly what to do 
    for 40 or more hours a week. 
    
    I'm done now. Phew.

    re: .13
    
    Wow, I don't believe some one could miss the point of the example in
    .11.  It does not suggest automatons, it does suggest that it is
    management's responsibility to optimize the work being done.  This
    means that management has to know what their workforce is capable of,
    and of course they should be listening to the workforce to get their
    ideas on how "things" can be done better.  If our job is to build
    personal computers we need to listen to those assembling, buying, etc.
    etc. because we need to be better than others making PC's.  If the
    person putting the thing together, shipping, taking the order has ideas
    *YES* they are one of the most important sources of productive input. 
    The question of leadership is whether we should be making PC's,
    software, cars, trucks, mainframes, artificial Christmas trees, or
    bombers.  If we're not in the right "forest" no matter how efficient,
    or dedicated the management, and producers are we will not be
    successful.
    
    I would suggest reading the book before burning it.
    
    DAR

    re: .14
    
    What you and Maxine say makes sense... IFF your management chain
    supports you.
    
    There are some people in this corporation who have scars from prior
    attempts to point out better ways to do things.  Yes, there is always
    some potential for personal cost when attempting to change things.  But
    some costs can be too high to ignore, especially when they could
    include serious costs for your family.
    
    Some people here are fortunate to work for a management team who are
    interested in listening.  Other people are not.  Please don't assume
    that negativism on the part of some individuals is caused by a flaw in
    their character.  It may well be caused by prior career-limiting
    experiences.

    
    it is taking time to sift throughout the corporation, but the behavior
    model is changing, and at least where i work, for the better. There
    were and are managers here who have punished just for having unpopular 
    points of views, but i get a real sense that activity is *no longer* 
    condoned by our vp's and one can notice an appreciable change. We have
    some very angry customers currently, and that has a way of focusing
    on the more important issue (selling).
    
    You get these behaviors when the reward model drifts from
    responsibility to the customer to some internal grail or politic or
    power whim by some synchophant.  However, our customers have
    re-established their authority, albeit painfully, and it seems to me
    to be merely a matter of time before those who do not heed their voice
    will have removed themselves of authority.
    
    Yes folks, it has been a slow, very painful process that has hurt
    many of us dearly. However, no edict from on high other than providing 
    the opportunity to succeed or fail will do the job, and that HAS been
    done. Some areas are turning around, some are just recognizing how
    deep in sh*t they are, and surely some have not figured out the new
    rules of the game, but eventually they will.   
    
    People respond to rewards - every dipsh*t manager you can identify with 
    a bogus behavior has at sometime been rewarded for that behavior.  What 
    the hell, we've managed to set up so many different adgendas to satisfy 
    it was easy to crucify or otherwise muzzle folk.   But, when the customer 
    stops buying, it's refocus or drop dead.  The shower curtain has been
    ripped away and we are exposed.  There's lots of scurrying, but it's
    still hard to hide.
    
    bob
    

RE: .15

To carry the point one step farther, you always get what you reward!

If the yes-people and glad-handers are getting the promotions and raises,
that is the behavior that will quickly take over the entire organization.
If you want risk takers, you have to make it worth it to take a risk!
Why would anyone risk their family for an idea when they can stay 
employed by saying nothing?

The above does NOT mean that I disagree with Maxine; I strongly agree.
But I also understand the motivation of many folks that do not or can
not allow themselves to be put in a situation that risks their salary 
continuation.

Let me combine some information from a number of note strings in this 
conference.  Two people stated that their sales groups did better than
their projections.  Give them MORE (people, resources, whatever their
team needs)!  Reward that behavior!  Got a group that missed their 
budget by 25%, CUT that manager.  Watch people change in a hurry.  

This is a very simplicitic solution but it will be effective.  Teamwork
will improve, managers will be MUCH more interested in their groups and
will manage down not up. 

I should point out that by group, I mean the organisation that reports
to a manager.  So for example, David Stone is the manager of TNSG group.
As has been pointed out KO is doing this at the top level (even if he is
not firing those VPs).  All I am saying is to do it at all levels.

Reward what you want and you will have a better chance of getting it.

IMHO,
Lee G.

.0>    Typically, the bottom of the house believes it has no power or ability 
.0>    to cause change.  As the saying goes, the top of the hierarchy thinks, 
.0>    the bottom does.  The spirit, if not the actual implementation, of the 
.0>    new management system aspires to something different in attempting to 
.0>    drive decision making down the the most appropriate level.
    
    This view of the new management system doesn't seem at all "different".
    
    When I first joined the company, almost 13 years ago, the common view
    held that Digital was a "bottom-up" company.  I seem to recall that the
    idea of driving decision-making down to the lowest appropriate level
    was one of the core values in the corporate culture in those days (or
    maybe I'm just getting addled in my old age?).
    
.9>    I'm looking for the excitement that characterized the early days at
.9>    Digital, or Apple, or ...
    
    I don't regard myself as having been around in "the early days" but I
    hired in when many of the cast remained.  My impression is that much of
    that excitement was rooted in feelings of empowerment at the level of
    each and every individual contributor.  I do not believe Digital can
    recapture such feelings without drastic structural and organizational
    changes, sad to say.
    
.17>    it is taking time to sift throughout the corporation, but the behavior
.17>    model is changing, and at least where i work, for the better. There
.17>    were and are managers here who have punished just for having unpopular 
.17>    points of views, ...
    
    Personally, I don't feel I can effect any significant change in the
    corporate fortunes myself.  I do not feel empowered any more, and if I
    am tapped on the shoulder it will be no surprise, merely a relief. 
    After getting negative feedback for posting comments in this conference
    that were deemed Politically Incorrect expressions about my relationship 
    with my  supervisor, I will actually be more surprised if I'm not shown 
    the door, comments in .17 notwithstanding...
    
    (the ironic part is, I think the comments were valid, misinterpreted 
    and misunderstood - and the fact that I could not communicate that view
    proves it!)

    If I were CEO?
    
    Do as many layoffs as I thought were necessary for the next 2 years
    tomorrow.  Consolidate by cutting the number of internal organizations
    in half.  And, most important, give everybody who's left a raise.
    
    Dennis

    Please note. I've deleted .9 because I was informed that my reference
    to my early religious experience was inappropriate and offensive.  That
    was not my intent.   

	One reason that reform from the bottom will be hard lies in the
	syndrome that I am experiencing now. You could call it the reverse
	Pavlov syndrome.

	Pavlov found that if he rang a bell before feeding dogs, in time
	the dogs would drool merely because they heard the bell.

	In my role as dog, I have been noticing more and more that the
	physical and mental efforts I put in are not in any way related to
	any system of reward or punishment. Moreover, this seems to apply
	across the company.

	When I work very hard for three weeks to deliver something specially
	useful, there is no rewarding feedback. Nobody says "Well done, Tom,
	here's a bonus!" Nobody says "Well done, Tom". On the other hand,
	quite a few people complain bitterly, because my head has emerged
	briefly against the skyline. On the other hand, should I goof off
	for a while, and simply sit around doing nothing much, nobody would
	notice that either. Under the circumstances, why bother? "For the
	satisfaction of doing a good job!" you say. But that's lacking too,
	because good work is quite liable to be thrown away.

	In other words, there seems very little chance of *making a
	difference*. Why row hard when the crazy captain is quite likely
	to scuttle the boat at any time? Why work at developing a business
	which might be dissolved at any time? How can I hope to go on working
	for Digital when so many people so much better than me have been
	dismissed? What's the point?

	Don't get me wrong - I'm still the same person. Give me a glimpse
	of the sun, and I'll get stuck in like anyone else. But it's real
	tough when nobody recognises or rewards effort or originality, just
	"loyalty" - in other words agreeing with the people who got us
	where we are today.

	/Tom

    I thought about this, I've changed my mind.  There are numerous
    "empowerment" programs that have worked and worked very well at other
    companies, even ones with the engineering-manufacturing-selling mix we
    have at Digital.

    Some programs implemented by other companies aren't fakes and phonies.

    The problem is that important stakeholders in Digital (employees who
    aren't managers, customers, and investors) lack confidence that a
    turn-around program can be made to work.

    I feel there is almost nothing I can do to help this company, outside
    of providing value for money, and delivering what I'm asked to deliver.
    
    I used to feel that comments made in this conference and others like it
    made a difference. I used to feel that when I aired an opinion, or
    revealed a fact, or highlighted an area many people had otherwise not
    thought about, I made a difference. I used to feel it made a difference
    because someone high-up would look at my carefully worded and
    constructed note and think "Hmm, good point that. I agree/disagree with
    that; how can I make use of that information?" I don't anymore. Well
    actually, I do...
    
    I damage myself by stating things that someone, somewhere doesn't like.
    Twice in the last two weeks I've had to revisit this other conferences
    to remove 'offensive' material, after hearing that it had 'upset' some
    people. The truth of the matter, the honesty in which those opinions
    were held is for naught.
    
    I used to believe that managers like that had no place in Digital, that
    the days of Good-News-only management were over. I know different. I'm
    learning to bite my lip. As much as I care about Digital, my family
    comes first.
    
    Laurie.

    The note topic could be expressed another way:

                          What's holding us back?

    How do we trigger or unleash the energy resident in the people of this
    company.  We have a very intelligent, very talented workforce. 
    However, instead of creating a force the equivalent of Niagara Falls,
    it feels like we have created a number of small streams, most of which
    are drying up.

    I'm looking for the excitement that characterized the early days at
    Digital, or Apple, or ...

    What I think is holding us back is that we've bought into the myth of
    the charismatic leader - the one who knows all the answers.  S/he's
    dead.

    That leaves you and me.  Yet we still hold back.  Out of fear?  We have
    delegated OUR authority to a hierarchy.  Ken is trying to give it back
    and we keep saying "No way!"

    The hierarchy is the last vestige of divine right.  It just doesn't
    work any more, yet we collude in perpetuating it, even though we know
    better.  We act fearful when it is against our best interests, and the
    company's to do so.

    Digital is asking us to step forward and take responsibility so we can
    create a company that will make it.  It has been overly fair in trying
    to ease the pain of separation.  

    I feel we need to think through how we remake Digital, not shut off the
    discussion because our past experience suggests otherwise.  Ken does
    not, nor is it reasonable to expect it of him, know all  the answers. 
    He knows that and seems to have more faith in us than we do in
    ourselves.

    Let me throw out a hypothesis:  We are the problem.  We are the reason
    Digital is dying.

    The good news is that if that is true, we can do something about it,
    but it means paving new roads to places we haven't been before.  But do
    we have any other choice?

    re .23
    I think you are right.  Confidence and environment play a very critical
    part in the enthusiasm and creativity of each of us.  If you are in a
    successful, caring organization it is easy to take risks because you
    know that you will be supported.  Each of us deserves that kind of
    organization, good times, bad times, anytime!  
    
    For those of us who don't have this kind of group, we lay low, and we
    use informal channels like notes to discuss our situation because we
    feel the support here that we don't feel in our own organizations.
    
    So how do we move forward?  For those of us who will take risks on
    everyone's behalf, what's the message?

    Peter Block, author of The Empowered Manager, captures, for me, a theme
    that seems to be running through a number of replies to this topic.  A
    patriarchal corporation, and most fit that description, "nurtures a
    dependent mentality.  The belief that our survival is in somene else's
    hands is in part a consequence of the first three parts of the
    bureaucratic cycle. Our initial willingness to be dependent also helps
    to create the cycle.  After twelve or so years of school systems and
    family that treat us fundamentally as children, we are conditioned
    for more of the same.  We may not wish to be dependent, but dangle a
    reward system in front of our eyes and we are ripe for the picking." p.
    22.
    
    He later notes that we cannot wait for the system to reward risk.  It
    won't.  It's really a contradictory notion to the very nature of a
    patriarchy.  As others have noted, there is no way we can change a
    system as individuals;  that's not how systems are changed.  We can
    change how we as individuals respond to that system.  
    
    If, as was described a couple of notes ago, we are not being recognized
    for the work that we are do, if our particular work group is sending
    mixed signals (work hard, but not harder than the rest of us cause we
    will look bad), then those issues need to be put on the table.  If our
    immediate manager only comments on the negative - which is probably
    true in the majority of cases - then we need to share that with him or
    her.  Not in a vindictive, accusative way.  But rather in a manner that
    they can hear it.  One way is simply to make an "I" statement.  "This is
    how I feel when I work 80 hours a week and the only comment I get is
    negative."  No one can legitimately say, "Well, you shouldn't feel that
    way."  These are your feelings;  you don't have to justify them.  What
    is important is that you put the issue on the table.  Period.  Let the
    manager do with it as they please.  In the future, they will remember
    the conversation.  They may even pass on a compliment or two.  But
    don't hold your breath.  At the very least, you've let the person know
    and have given him/her a chance to learn.
    
    Most managers don't want their reports to feel bad;  they
    just don't know any other way.  After all, they have probably been
    exposed to the same approach most of their work lives.

    I think it's remarkable how easily we CAN and want to 
    redirect negative thoughts and/or fear to another venu.  Since this
    note was entered, not one other rumor etc note 1948 has been entered. 
    We are already thinking of ways up.... rather than out.  Even if it
    only occurs for split seconds at a time.... it seems to be occuring.
    If there are but a handful of people with optimism.... it can be
    contagous.  
    I am interested in the points of view, and shall continue to read,
    absorb and learn...
    Lorelei
    

    I second the response of reply .28. Most of the responses thus far
    confirm what a lot of us already know - including the author of the
    original note. Namely, that the strength, creativity and "fire in the
    belly" of Digital is very much alive.  Like the theme of our products,
    it's distributed around the world. With that in mind, here's another
    suggestion to the what-if-I-were-CEO question.
    
    Lets' break up Fortress Maynard and have the decision makers closer to
    the buyers and cultural centers that drive the purchasing and tailoring
    of products. Take an industry group like mining and forest products,
    for example. Most of the movers and shakers in these industries are in
    places like Idaho, Oregon, Montana. Why do we have our gurus huddled
    in Massachusetts? In service industries, you find American financial 
    giants with operations in places like Utah, North Carolina and South
    Dakota. Do we have key decision makers "out there" close to these 
    industries? 
    
    If we truly believe in the technical messages of client/server
    computing; if we truly believe in the power that a corporate network
    can bring to an enterprise; if we truly believe that our technology is
    that powerful, then let's strategically apply it to our own company.
    Let's distribute our key decision makers out of the I-495 area. Let's
    increase the visibility of this firm all across the U.S.. 
    
    I feel that doing with will give the titular corporate leaders a dose
    of reality on an ongoing basis. It will also make Digital, one huge
    A.C.T. that will be a living example of how technology can be used
    to manage a large and diverse enterprise.  

    
>    Lets' break up Fortress Maynard and have the decision makers closer to
>    the buyers and cultural centers that drive the purchasing and tailoring
>    of products.
    
    OK.  I'll spot you one copy of "Megatrends" and one copy of
    the hokey management book of your choice.  You go up there and
    try to clean out "Fortress Maynard".   

    And what did you say your job title was ?

    And where shall we contact you for followup ( after the TFSO ) ?

    Steve H

    I once interviewed a sales rep who, at the time of the interview, knew
    he was going to be drummed out of the company.  It was 30 days prior to
    the end of the fiscal year, he had made his number, yet knew he was a
    marked man.  What came through during the interview, I get goose bumps
    just thinking about it, was not bitterness about his situation, which
    would have been more than justified, but a concern for this company, a
    concern that reflected a specific proposal for how we might turn a
    piece of our business around (in this instance disks).  He knew he had
    been treated shabbily and that in his experience political favoritism
    was the rule of the day.
    
    What moved me was his concern, which was quite apart from his own
    safety, and it reminded me of the spirit that characterized this
    company not so many years ago.  People spoke lovingly of DEC - grown
    men talked of having an affair with Digital (I thought they must be
    nuts);  I do believe that spirit remains, in spite of the abuse people
    have been subjected to, and we all know there has been lots of it at
    times.
    
    The suggestion in .29 gives me pause for thought.  The link between
    corporate and the customer has been all too tenuous.  It does need to
    be reestablished;  decision makers are simply too far removed from the
    impact  of their decisions.  So, how else do we help bridge that gap?
    
    Did they really understand that our disks were grossly overpriced a few
    years back?  Why did it take so long to change what was obvious to
    anyone who ever tried to sell one?  One sales call should have raised
    the priority of that issue.
    
    What else?  and more importantly, what can we do about it?

    Solutions, Solutions and more solutions. Does it mean we as a company
    have a fix on our problem(s)? 
    
    For us to save the company, can someone articulate what is it we want
    to save it from!  
    
    

    re .29
    
    Your rhetoric exceeds the reach of your effectiveness.  I feel the same
    way sometimes, but any third column (and kid yourself not, that's what
    is being discussed) must be realistic in its choice of targets.
    
    Unless you are a VP of whatever, your immediate goal is not to "storm
    Fortress Maynard", but to make the greatest impact right where you
    live.  If you can convince your peers and your boss that you've got a
    good idea, there's hope for your crusade.  Otherwise, you'd best pick a
    more modest target.
    
    Yeah, I know it's an election year, and we all get caught up in the
    spirit of things.  But, this is your job, your livelihood, your
    family's security, and your career you're putting on the line.  Don't
    commit suicide, think through what you can realistically affect and go
    for it!
    
    Dick

    re: 32  
    Some might say we need to save it from extinction.  There are
    precedents - Wang, Data General, Prime and Unisys have all failed to
    come out of their death spirals.  From another industry - the watch
    industry was once owned by the Swiss;  no longer.  This may just be a
    matter of life or death.
    
    Or was your question searching for another kind of answer.  That is,
    what is (are) the specific problem(s) that we need to address in order
    to save this company?

    
    re: 34
    
    yes, to your second paragraph. If we fail to agree on our problem(s)
    we will never agree on a solution(s) resulting in endless debates.

    Few of us can do much beyond doing the best we can at our jobs. That
    often doesn't seem like a lot. We can also make suggestions on how
    to do things better. That's what DELTA is for. Seems like a good idea
    if there is management willing to implement good ideas. Is there?
    Sometimes I think so. Sometimes I think not.

    For myself, I start a month of vacation this week end. I'm worn out
    mentally and emotionally. I'm hoping that a vacation will clear the 
    cobwebs out and let me do my job with re-newed enthusiasm and energy.
    Frankly I'm less hopeful about the future of this company then I have
    been at any time that I can remember. Maybe things will look better 
    in a month. Probably not but at least I'll be better able to handle it 
    rested. 

    				Alfred

    This is in response to .30 and a couple of others that hit upon the
    same theme. To be quite blunt, you are being stymied by the fact that
    you are actively limiting your own contribution to the firm by
    accepting the premise that all you want out of a 40+ hour work week is a
    job and some money. Note .30 asked a fair questions...what is my job
    title and where can I be reached after TSFO? I'll answer that in a
    second, but bear with this first. I joined DEC in the position of a
    consultant that was to support local sales efforts to the insurance
    industry. I did that, but took it upon myself to expand my contacts
    and eventually supported sales efforts in my district, then area, then
    nationally. I took it upon myself to develop and write a business plan
    and a marketing plan that would serve as guides along the way. Having 
    accomplished all that I wanted to along this path, I linked up with a
    startup operation that had the audacity to say, let's start a brand new
    fee based business that helps companies to expand internationally...
    no technology, no wires, no EIS, no hardware, no software...just
    a business to business service. We developed our own service offerings.
    We do our own marketing. We develop our own contracts. We do our own
    billing and collection. In just two years, we have worked with nearly
    200 companies. We now have been blessed with more open reqs than we
    asked for and more support services than we asked for. Additionally, we
    are opening hub offices in Vienna, Hong Kong and London. 
    
    My title is U.S. Engagement Manager for International Business
    Services. Where is this global enterprise "headquartered"? Why from
    the vastness of my cubicle in Columbus, Ohio. Why there and not in
    Fortress Maynard? Columbus is within one hour travel time from all
    major markets east of the Mississippi. Now THAT'S what I mean by
    storming the fortress. And that's what I meant in a previous note about
    forcing the coporation to keep up with ME.
    
    I'm not a workaholic. But dammit it, man, the opportunities are there
    to be seized and formed in a manner suitable for you. In closing, a bird
    flies because it HAS to. Rachmaninoff composed music because he HAD to.
    It's in the nature of all living creatures to express themselves
    somehow. Go with that. Don't settle for a job. Make what you do an
    extension of what is natural for you to do anyway. Heaven knows that
    there are enough people trying to limit you. Don't lend them a hand.  

    
      In reference to the basenote question, only one adage comes to mind
    and that is "DEC can't come home".  What I mean is that WE have changed
    as a corporation, forever.  Be it a continueous evolutionary process
    from this day forward or whatever you may wish to label it, we can't
    go back.  That's part of the bad news and often most difficult to
    swallow for most people including myself.  We dislike change in our
    lives and wish to remain warm and cozy with in the DEC cacoon.  But
    there is hope for a bright future.  As a previous noter explained,
    instead of one systematic river flowing in the same direction, we have
    splintered into tributaries, some flowing aimlessly, others merely
    drying up to non-existence.  If only WE could harness all the hard
    lessons learned over the years and refocus our energies in one
    direction, together WE can prove all theose non-believers wrong and
    emerge as a stronger, leaner and meaner corporation.  Question is
    how do we get management to stop swinging the machete long enough
    to listen?
    
    djr
    

    re:  .38  - Learning from past failures
    
    You raise an interesting point, what have we learned from our mistakes?
    
    For one, we've learned that layoffs don't raise morale, and they
    certainly haven't done much for the bottom line.
    
    For another, nothing, but nothing, is more important than morale.  It
    is a necessary, although not sufficient, ingredient for success.
    
    People make mistakes.  But do we learn from them.  Even though Chick
    Schue sponsored some rather Draconian policies, when he finally did
    come around, he left!  We lost that learning.
    
    Other learnings?
    
    
    
    

    
    	I am very pleased to see this note....I scan this conference
    	occasionally but I don't generally spend much time in it aside
    	from time to hit the next unseen key because lately there's
    	been so many repetitious themes like:
    
    		Why do we have so many VP's?
    		And Why don't our managers inspire us?
    		And Isn't it awful at DEC?
    		And So on...
    
    	The answer lies within ourselves.  Anyone in sales knows what 
    	I mean... when times are bad you can't sit around and feel sorry 
    	for yourself...you just have to pick yourself up by the bootstraps 
    	and get going again.  
    
    	There's a lot to be said for the power of positive thinking.  
    	If we continue to moan and groan about how bad it is, we'll 
    	never get out of this rut.  It sort of becomes self-fulfilling...
    	if you believe things are bad and are going to stay that way, 
    	they probably will be.
    
    	It will take a lot of leadership to pull us out of this,
    	but it isn't realistic to expect it all to come from management.  
    	We've all got to lead by taking a positive outlook, committing 
    	ourselves to move forward, and setting an example to others to 
    	do the same thing.
    
    	There is nothing holding us back...the business is there.
    	I am in marketing and I work directly with sales and there has
    	been an enormous increase in activity over the last week or
    	so.  
    
    	A lot of sales reps were burned out at the end of FY92
    	(which is very understandable), many of the ones I know took 
    	a week's vacation and came right back and started right into 
    	the new year with a lot of new vigor and energy and I'm 
    	really optimistic about a lot of new opportunities we're 
    	working.
    
        I think of an analogy to an athletic team...you're down 11-0
    	at the end of the season and its hopeless, but we're starting
    	a brand new season now (FY93) and we've just got to get the
    	team charged up again so that we're all playing the game
    	at full capacity with all of our energy.
    
    	I'm optimistic about it.
    
    	Chuck

    The way to save this company is to sell more of what we
    have to more customers. Sell to new markets and new application areas
    that are growing. There is so much change taking place in this world we
    just have to look at what our products and services can do to solve
    some serious customer problems.
    
    It's easy to blame people, departments and organizations, but that
    doesn't solve the issue that we need to move products and services.
    I can't believe that everybody has stopped buying any computers, they
    just slowwed down buying ours. We have to get customers to buy what we
    have. We have the solutions for almost every application out there, we
    just have to find them.
    
    Get out there and loo for the problems that customers are having and
    look inward to DEC and find the solution, it's there, you just have to
    look harder.
    
    

    
      re: last few replies,
    
      I firmly believe that low morale is spontaneous as well as contagious
    to those surrounded by it.  Whether the source is an individual, a
    group, or an entire organization.  It's so easy (these days) to be
    dragged into a conversation about the latest "rumors" and walk away
    feeling bitter towards other people, managers, and yes DEC.  I'm guilty
    of it, how 'bout you?  But the last few days have become a real eye
    opener for me in that as long as you "allow" these negative vibes to
    penetrate your mind and muddle your thinking, you will remain  in that
    ditch/hole which appears to have no way out.  So what do we do?  We
    borrow into the hole futher and lower our self esteem another notch.
    This low self esteem is then transmitted to co-workers, friends and
    even worse your immediate family members.  Come on you guys, block it
    out by setting daily goals for yourself.  Whether these goals be simple
    or complex tasks, raise you self esteem a notch.  Who knows, maybe it
    too could become contageous!  I for one have seen close to 500 people
    leave our facility/site.  Believe you me, it's been painful watching
    people admire and respect, leave the comforts of a well paying job.
    It (for me) became a roosting point of contention that I fell into 
    a continueous sine wave of emotions and probably shortened my life
    expectancy by x/years.  This for 3 years!  What do I have to show for
    it?  Time will tell...but I can assure you it's just not worth it.
    Let's get on with it and breath some life back into people and "our"
    company.
    djr

    we can save this company by reducing cost of sales - take away the
    allowance budget.  we should stop buying the business and try asking
    the customer to pay for the value they recieve from us.  If they don't
    think they recieve value then we should stop selling whatever it is
    they don't think they get value for.

    re .42
    
    I do not have low moral but I do suffer from a case of SERIOUS
    disappointment and frustration.  I came to dec four years ago because
    I felt (and still do) that dec is without a doubt the best vendor in
    the business.  BUT NO ONE KNOWS IT.  We have the best products.  We
    have some of the best technical talent in every area of this company
    that I have ever seen in this industry (this is my fourth vendor).
    What disappoints and frustrates me is the lack of leadership from
    SOME of management; lack of direction; poor perception of any by the
    industry.  I am confident dec will succeed in spite of itself purely
    because of the dedication of the people that really do the work and
    not those whose life work seems to be standing in the way of success.
    
    transcribed but not read.
    dan carroll

    
    re: .44 Dan,
    
      What can I futher say to you other than most, if not all of us have
    been there before.  It's difficult to ignore the things/people which
    hold DEC to being mediocre in certain areas when we should be leaders
    in those fields.  There's an awful lot of change about to happen in
    DEC with in the coming months.  If you, I and others survive these
    changes, GREAT!  We'll be all the stronger and better prepared for 
    future changes.  If we don't survive, THERE IS LIFE AFTER DEC!
    
    djr

    re:  42
    
    I have a theory that as human beings we default to the negative.  That
    is, our outlook, in the absence of information to the contrary, is
    decidedly negative.
    
    Consequently, when faced with an ambiguous situation - like the current
    industry climate and its effect on DEC's bottomline, we react by
    filling the void with negative possibilities rather than positive one. 
    Gradually, the disease spreads and it feeds on itself and we
    self-destruct.  
    
    We have been facing the prospect of layoffs for some years now.  We
    have gradually reduced ourselves to a level of impotence which makes
    our survival questionable.  Everywhere the story seems to be the same. 
    Morale is low;  productivity is lower.  Commitment to DEC, to
    OURSELVES, is at an all time low.  
    
    At times like this, given the fact that we are thinking negatively
    already, what can it hurt but to try to turn it around and figure out
    how to make the best of the situation?  Even pie in the sky polyanna is
    better than the depths of despair and depression. 
    
    However, as others have noted, I do believe in the vitality of this
    company and I do believe that individuals do make the difference. 
    There is strength in our values and in our abilities that is simply too
    precious to let fall by the wayside.
    
    We do have superb capabilities and we can still be pioneers in areas
    where we are deficient;  all we need to do is to decide to make the
    difference.  As Roosevelt said, the "only thing we have to fear is fear
    itself."  We won WWII because we believed we could.  We can do the same
    here.
    

    RE: .37...the comments about starting up an international consulting
    service.
    
    Could you eleborate on how you were able to pull off your
    accomplishments.  Specifically, I am interested in how you got
    "empowered" to start the international consulting stuff.
    
    I have several areas in which I would love to start something up.  I
    believe that I need some buy-in from someone who can fund me and get me
    access to data that I need.  I have tried by going directly to the
    people in charge.  I have been completely frustrated by their lack of
    interest and vision.
    
    I may be falling victim to the "I can't do it  because..." trap.  I
    would be interested in how you made it happen.
    
    
    Ken Slattery        

    
    re: .46
    
      Well said.

    
    Hi,
    
    I hope this topic is the right one to place a bit of info I have that
    may well be of interest to someone in the sales bizz at DEC, and that
    I am doing the right thing all together. Here goes nothing ;)
    
    It was on the news on TV last night and I started thinking,`could
    Digital Equipment Corporation help these people out?' You know,"Alpha",
    "Open advantage", and all.
    Now what is the case here:
    
    
    Practicly all aviation companies in Europe have one big problem they
    all agree on, and that is there"Flight control systems" to guide all
    that is up in the air or planning to take-off or land. All these 300+
    or so separate operating flight-control systems are causing major
    lossess in time and money because they are not compatible or even at
    least working together. They have a system called Euro-control which
    is trying to tie a logical knot to keep it all operable.
    
    Now the Royal Dutch Airlines(K.L.M.) have started a campaign to get 
    or force governments to even start recognizing this major problem
    by informing and asking all it's passengers(customers) to sign a
    petition. Brittish Airways,Lufthansa and other major companies are
    joining.
    
    Would it not(this is what instantly struck my mind) ;^) be a very
    intersting customer for Digital to tackle that problem for the aviation
    industry in Europe??????  Look, we are talking MEGA...no...GIGA BUCKS
    here. And I think that a component like the Alpha product and OpenVMS
    is just the product they might need.
    
    I hope some 1 like you who read this will pick this up and inform a 
    sales-VP or even Ken O. 
    
    Or am I doing/saying something stupid here....If so, I will delete
    this. The thing is, you never see DIGITAL on TV when for example a big
    sports event is on....get my drift?  ;^)
    
    regards
    
    Jan. 
    
     

    Great suggestion.  This is as good a place as any.  Sounds like this
    should be a concerted effort and that senior European management ought
    to initiate it, if they haven't already.  It's an exciting idea!

    re: .49
    
    The type of system you describe is called an air traffic control (ATC)
    system.
    
    At one time the standard sales contract (at least in the U.S.)
    contained a clause which prohibited the use of our products in
    applications where there is a direct possibility of loss of life
    resulting from malfunction of the system.  Several examples were
    given, including nuclear power plants and ATC systems.

>    At one time the standard sales contract (at least in the U.S.)
>    contained a clause which prohibited the use of our products in
>    applications where there is a direct possibility of loss of life
>    resulting from malfunction of the system.  Several examples were
>    given, including nuclear power plants and ATC systems.

	Well, some Systems Integrator is going to get this business.
Whoever wins it obviously will not have such a clause in the final Ts & Cs.

	If we have weasel clauses in our contracts it means either our 
lawyers have too much power or *We don't have confidence in our own products
and services*  

	Let's take a risk here.

My 2c.

Frank

I reject the notion that Digital's current situaton can be healed by
self-generated correction of a self-generated 'bad attitude'. I see this
tone a bit in this note and in others in this conference. The origin of
Digital's malaise is not in the lower eschelons.

Yes, improvement in individual attitudes will be of help but the basic
'key' ingredient for DEC's recoverey is LEADERSHIP. That's what made DEC
the giant from the simple startup company in 1957. PRODUCT leadership in
the form of systems, components and software... CUSTOMER leadership in
treating customers right... EMPLOYEE leadership in taking our people and
bringing out the best in them. (That is my personal definition of
leadership, BTW).

In the past few years, at various levels, in various ways, LEADERSHIP has
been replaced with SELFISHNESS. That's the root cause of DEC's internal
problems today.  (with the world, for that matter)

Take a good hard look at note 3.33 ("ODP isn't worth the paper it's
printed on...") that was recently posted. Digital has represented the
Open Door Policy as an important, viable component of employee relations
yet its very worth is suspect in light of the events described.

These and other breach-of-trust events (morale busters?) are difficult
for an individual to overlook. The advice of "Get a good attitude" won't
solve problems like this... it is only whitewash on a core of rotten
wood.

Lee

    
      re: last few ATC systems,
    
      DEC manufactures but rarely advertises it's VAXft 3000 series of 
    Fault tolerant systems which compete head-to-head with Tandem and
    Stratus Computer Systems.  Can't remember all of the specific details
    but IBM resells one of the other manufacturers systems.  Anyway, if
    I remember correctly, DEC went head to head with IBM to supply the
    U.S. and part of Canada with Fault Tolerant systems and lost the 
    contract.  Can't remember all of the specifics but the contract
    came about as the VAXft 3000 series first came to the market place.
    I'm sure we (DEC) have learned from our past mistakes in this market
    place and vastly improved the VAXft 3000 systems.  Sure would be nice
    to give IBM a black eye!
    
    djr

    Well, negativism is as you see it.
    
    What many here call negativism is, in my eyes, positive.
    
    The whole premise of this string is "saving DEC", but that is not the
    charter of any of us.  Our personal goals should be to protect ourselves and
    our own interests.  It is the company's responsibility to decide how
    and if we can contribute to the welfare of Digital.
    
    Anyone who assumes that his or her own interests run with those of
    Digital can be rudely awakened on the day that Digital decides not to
    use their contribution any more.  For many years, I never needed to
    trade off my interest against that of Digital.  In the long run, we
    were going to rise or fall together.  That is no longer the case.
    
    I urge each of you to temper your enthusiasm for saving Digital with
    some selfish concern for yourselves.  Nobody else is minding that
    store!
    
    fwiw,
    
    Dick

Re: .55

Right on Target!

Your note has prompted me to start a new topic...

Lee

   Re: .55 and many others ...

   The opening statement really does say it ...

	�  Well, negativism is as you see it.  �

   ... is that a take on the clich�: "Beauty lies in the eyes of the
   beholder." ?


   There _is_ an awful lot of "negativism" in many of the notes entered
   recently (can get darn depressing, if you let it...).   Then I started to
   think about it in a different way ......

   This "negativism" is but one part of the 'change' process -- much like the
   stages one goes through when grieving.  I don't remember the exact order
   but the stages go something like:  denial, resistance, anger/bitterness,
   and, finally, acceptance.  (I'm pretty sure I left out something, it will
   come to me AFTER I've entered the reply... ;-)! )

   As we all know, the world in which the company is trying to do business
   has changed.  If the company cannot meet the needs of its customers then
   it will go the way of the dinosaur.

   Change of any kind is a painful process.  These different feelings we are
   all having are part of that process.  Theoretically, we will not success-
   fully move forward until we've gone through the entire process.

   The "we," in this case, could be an individual, group, or the company.

   Each one will go through the process, some more quickly then others.

   Those who have made it through cannot simply tell others:  "You can't (or
   shouldn't) feel that way."  The response will be:  "Don't tell me how I
   can feel, you don't know what I'm going through.", or something analogous.  

   As soon as I hear someone try to tell another how they "should feel," I 
   think back to an episode of "All In the Family" where Archie finds out that
   Edith's behavior is really caused by 'change of life.'  [Appropriate, isn't
   it ....]  Archie is his typical, insensitive, self when he hollers at Edith
   as she cryingly runs up the stairs, "I'll give you 10 minutes to change!"

   Bottom-line:  The best those who have already accepted and adjusted to 
	Digital's "change of life" can do is to help those around us through
	the same process.  

   As for "saving DEC," it won't happen without this metamorphisis. 

	-ron

    RE's last few....
    
    Heyyyyy hello people, .49 was/is talking about a major customer DEC
    could haul in. Now, can Digital pick-up this order. C'mon be positive.
    
    Jan.

    
    No.
    
    We could probably put Raytheon or one 
    of the other Gov. contract types on to it.
    
    cbc

    How would I change this company?  From the top down ...
    
    If I were CEO, I'd start by defining clear business goals that could be
    easily understood by most, if not all, of the employees in the company. 
    It's easier for people to get somewhere when they know where they're
    going.  Do any of us today really know what it is we're trying to
    accomplish?
    
    I'd then re-examine the metrics by which our managers are measured for
    success ... starting at the VP level and working right down to the lowest
    level of management.  I'd want to make sure that those metrics encouraged
    everyone to run their piece of the business with the "big picture" in 
    mind, and reward those who do the best job of successfully integrating 
    their departmental goals with those of the corporation as a whole.  I'd 
    build into the process a system of rewards and incentives that would 
    encourage cooperative enterprises between different groups, while at the
    same time discouraging those groups who currently compete against each 
    other for the same business, or create businesses which are not in the
    best interest of the corporation as a whole.
    
    At a mid-management level, I'd be trying to base my success metrics for
    my direct reports along similar lines as those handed down from above
    ... namely productivity and progress toward the corporate goals. 
    Middle management needs to readjust it's metrics toward the concept of
    doing more work with fewer people, and reward those who show
    initiative.
    
    At a sales level, I'd provide incentives for people to get out there and
    aggressively sell our products.  That would probably include some kind
    of commissions on product sales.
    
    At an individual contributor level, I'd accept the fact that the
    Digital of today isn't the same company it was a few years ago.  The
    present company requires more effort from me than it did in previous
    years.  I'd recognize the fact that the biggest chance I have to affect
    change is most likely in the attitude I bring to work with me every day
    ... and that even in a bad situation a positive outlook will produce
    better results than a negative one.  I would like to see leadership from
    the top, and support from the middle, but I can't make those things
    happen.  I can control my own actions, however, and so the most
    positive thing I can do to change the company is to take pride in what
    I'm doing and do it well ... and trust in the concept that if enough of
    us worker bees do a good job, things will turn out OK.
    
    These are pretty simplistic changes, and they would not solve all of
    Digital's problems by any means.  But it sure would make it easier to
    identify what our problems were, and engender a better atmosphere for
    working together to resolve them.
    
    ... Bob
    

RE: .-1

Why not make "metric" an adjective again?

    He's right, you know. "metric" is an adjective, "metrics" is a noun,
    and is not the plural of a (non-existant) noun "metric".
    
    If I were CEO, I'd also tour the corporation on a regular basis, and
    not sit in an ivory tower making pronouncements. It is after all, a
    multi-national, multi-cultural organisation.
    
    Laurie.

	Re. 62

	The word `metric' is a noun, according to both the 
	OED and Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary.  The 
	latter says:
    
    	metric ...2 : a standard of measurement 
		      <no ~ exists that can be applied directly 
		      to happiness -- _Scientific Monthly_>

	On the other hand, you'll find that `non-existant' is 
	simply non-existent.

	Jim  :-)
        

    RE last 3 replies
    
    Rather than wasting time discussing terminology, why not comment on the
    content of my note, or better yet, offering some useful information of
    your own?
    
    ... Bob

    re .64
    
    See Jubal Harshaw's comment about editors in R. Heinlein's "Stranger in
    a Strange Land", if you want a good summary...
    
    /Butch

    
    Hi all,
    
    Regarding note .49, has someone done something to pick up this posible
    major deal and forwarded it to the right people?
    
    Most of the European airlines are still seeking for a solution to their
    problem. Can VAX300ft do the trick?
    
    Jan.

    According to the Aviation Week Show Guide for the Farnborough
    International Exibition and Flying Display next month Digital Equipment
    Corporation will not be there. Of course there are three booths for IBM
    Air Traffic Center Europe, IBM ASIC, and IBM United Kingdom Ltd..
    
    I guess we don't need the business these days, huh?
    
    -Andy

    RE-1
    
    Hhhmmmm that reads disappointing Andy....can we poke someone to get us
    a last minute booking there? Or shall I forget the whole idea?
    
    A dear shame  :^/
    
    c-ya
    Jan.

    re last couple
    
    Digital does have a group that focuses on the Travel/Transportation
    industry; ie, airlines, airports, shipping, trucking, highways, etc.
    Due to the high cost of participating in trade shows and presenting the
    "proper Digital image" (ie, not a 10x10 booth stuck in a corner, but a
    40x50 in the center of the exhibitry), we are obviously not able to
    participate in each & every event, but are selective and participate in
    the conferences where we feel we will get the most visibility for the
    money spent.
    
    If you feel strongly that high visibility would be obtained by being
    present at the event mentioned in .67, please send mail and some words
    of explanation to Clive McGinn @ IME.
    
    Jon
    Senior Software Consultant,
    Travel/Transportation Group & Airports Focus Team

    Digital is one of the contractors with Hughes Aircraft out in Vancouver
    BC. Canada, in building the Canadaian Automated Air Traffic System
    (CAATS). DEC equipment will be prevalent. The project has been going on
    for about 3 years now. This is a large SI project. So we are in the
    business - IBM and the others all bid for the project - Hughes/Digital
    won. 
    
    A good testament ?
    
    Paul

    
    As mentioned in previous report, Digital does have a presence in Air
    Traffic Systems.
    
    Such Systemms are horrendously expensive to bid for, and Digital does
    not go it alone. In the cases I have come across, the Prime Contractor
    is generally some group with a presence in Radar Systems, for example
    Hughes, Westinghouse, Plessey-Siemens, etc
    
    The ATC System in London, Heathrow has over 130 Digital Computers
    incorporated, but the Prime Contractor was Plessey.
    
    Similar situation exists in Austria.
    
    Don't think that is what the IME group are involved in when you talk
    about Travel & Transport industry.
    
    Regds,

    
    	I don't think we should assUme that going to a trade show will
    necessarily generate sales or in any event lead to 'saving the co.'  
    
    	We do not participate DIRECTLY in the ATC business, by company
    policy (direct loss of life, etc.).  We do work with other primes to
    help them produce systems.  These are the people we need to maintain
    presence with, not the participants of trade shows.
    
    JN

    re: .-1
    
>    The ATC System in London, Heathrow has over 130 Digital Computers
>    incorporated, but the Prime Contractor was Plessey.
>    
>    Similar situation exists in Austria.
    
    	Plessey recently won a similar contract in Finland.
    	(Loads of DECsystems /FTvaxen).
    	They were competing against Hughes (also using Digital gear).
    
    
    		Pekka

Re: .-a few

>    According to the Aviation Week Show Guide for the Farnborough
>    International Exibition and Flying Display next month Digital Equipment
>    Corporation will not be there. Of course there are three booths for IBM
>    Air Traffic Center Europe, IBM ASIC, and IBM United Kingdom Ltd..
    
>    I guess we don't need the business these days, huh?
    
Or maybe we'd prefer to invest our $ in other areas that are key to our
business. It's this "do everything" mindset that's half our problem; markets
don't become strategic for us just because we've made a few large sales in
them...
								- Ian W.

Then again, we also don't have a booth at the Windows & OS/2 conference
in Boston this week (or if we did, I missed it).  I have no idea
whether it would have been worthwhile, though there seemed to be a
smattering of other companies showing their connectivity software.  But
I can believe that the sort of people likely to buy Pathworks don't
need to see us at this show.

Haven't the foggiest idea of how we're planning on selling Vivace, but
I have to believe that a sales campaign, including conference
attendance, would help.

   Gary

    
    Re: .69 
    
    Hey there Jon.. You know, you reminded me that Clive promised me a few
    "pints" for the AVIS/DECworld booths a few years back.. Hmmm.. :-)
    
    Anyway.. Its highly probably that the European Sales folks are aware of
    the ATC opportunity.. However, I agree with you that Jan should call Clive
    or, perhaps more appropriately, the European Aerospace Sales Group if
    such exists.
    
    Regarding Farnborough, it's about 2 weeks away.. perhaps next year..
    
    Re: .74
    
    I think you're missing the point.  The Aerospace industry *is*
    extremely important to Digital..  It's not just the ATC opportunity
    that's the issue..  If we are going to continue to be a player in this
    industry as a whole, we need to invest resources in highly visible
    events such as Farnborough.
    
    I'm really tired of hearing excuses for Digital not properly Marketing
    the excellent products we have spent millions of dollars, and pounds,  
    developing. You're right we can't be "everything to everybody", but
    unless this company learns to Market better than we have been doing in
    the past, we are going to be "nothing, to nobody.."
    
    -Andy

    
    re: .75
    
    I recently attended a Windows seminar, put on by Mastering Computers.
    Attendees were Microsoft, HP (showing New Wave, show special $49, I
    was sure tempted), WordPerfect, and others.  Other than the six of
    us who went, no Digital presence.  Sure would have been nice to have
    Vivace (sp?) loaded on my laptop to show a few fellow Windows
    explorers.  Maybe next time.
    
    

    
    Re: .76
    
>    Regarding Farnborough, it's about 2 weeks away.. perhaps next year..
    
    The Paris Air Show is next year.  There won't be another shot at
    Farnborough until 1994.
    
    LaDonna

    speaking of marketing (and I know there is yet another conf for this
    topic), how come DEC always seems to place TV ads during sporting
    events?  I, like 90% of the people I know, rarely watch televised
    sporting events to include the Olympics.  There are a LOT of other
    avenues out there to advertise and a lot better programming to
    advertise in then just sporting events.  The old adage that the best
    deals are made on the golf course or locker room still seems to apply
    to DEC strategy, n'est ce pas?
    
    Reg.

    I've never seen a DEC ad on a sporting event since I don't watch those.
    I do see that DEC sponsors Evening at Pops and the Nightly Business
    Report, both on PBS.

    RE: .77
    
    What's Vivace?
    
    Steve
    

	Vivace is a software package that runs on PCs using MS Windows. It's
	used for managing files and the like. That's what I got from a quick
	look at the notes conference noted in .82.

			Alfred

    re: .80 DEC sponsors the Ireland Rugby team, as I understand it.
    
    Sadly, their win rate is about the same as DEC's at the moment.

    
    re:- Few Back
    
    Agreed the ATC Systems are important business for Digital, however we
    can never become a Major Player.
    
    Having worked for the Major Players in life before Digital, they are
    all in the RADAR Business, which is where the raw data comes from
    anyway.
    
    Also, as I have mentioned, along with some other replies, we are in
    with the Major Players( Don't Know about Thomson-CSF) so which ever one
    wins the Bid, we win something.
    
    As long as our Sales/Marketing guys do a good job of Targeting the
    PC's in the business, then no need to attend Air Shows.
    
    My .2M$
    
    :-)
    
    ATC is expensive.
    

    Hi all,
    
    Maybe this note is also a good spot to tell you that a major deal
    between the U.S. and The Netherlands wich was signed yesterday is
    the worlds first(scoop) ever agreed on in airline world. This agreement
    is called "Open sky's" agreement wich was signed by The Royal dutch
    airlines(K.L.M.) and the American airlines.
    
    So this must be a good boost for Digital to start getting into this 
    A.T.C. business the Euro-controls badly need huh?(see/read back a few
    notes) So where is U.S and Euro sales to pop this one?  ;^)
    
    regards,
    Jan.

I hate to pour cold water on this, but it appears to be largely a ploy
to encourage the same types of agreements between the U.S. and other
countries. From what I understand, KLM gets all the advantages - cabotage
within the U.S. (and that may help me personally - an American living
in the Netherlands), but it only gives the same reverse rights to U.S.
airlines - namely cabotage in the Netherlands - hardly a master stroke,
unless the Maastricht airport greatly increases in size and starts
competing with Frankfurt and Brussels.

Peter

    Re-1
    
    Hhmmmmm, it's worth checking out what you state there. Surely the 
    Americans only sign it when they themselves see future profit init.
    Don't count on the fact that Maastricht airport will grow bigger.
    You better count on the fact that "Schiphol airport"(Amsterdam)
    will have the status of being the "Port to Europe" soon, and
    getting back to the badly needed Euro-ATC systems on which all Euro
    countries will hook-up on, it will be planted in The Netherlands. This
    because the now operating ATC network called Euro-control is allready
    stationed in The Netherlands. So there are some benefits for the U.S.
    as well.
    
    ;) Jan.

>    because the now operating ATC network called Euro-control is allready
>    stationed in The Netherlands. So there are some benefits for the U.S.
    
    Isn't the HQ of Eurocontrol actually in Brussels (Belgium)?? 
    
    (I do know that Eurocontrol have a large ATC centre at Maastricht which
    *is* in the Netherlands.)
    

    RE: -1
    
    Eurocontrol, the company, are indeed based in Brussels. In fact, they
    are in the process of building a *huge* new office roughly equidistant
    between the main Evere Digital office, and the two smaller Keiberg
    offices. I don't know what, if any, DEC kit they use.
    
    Laurie.

    Funny - this Eurocontrol. They seem to also have a office here
    next to Evry, 30 km's south of Paris. On the Bretigny test-field. 
    And using SUN boxes (o.a. I guess)
    
    
    Ruuf

    RE:.89.90.91
    
    There you have it, how badly just the one Euro system is needed. Euro-
    control seems to be ev(e)rywhere. Sun boxes/Moon boxes.......Now when
    is someone of sales(somewhere)...ahhh leave it.
    
    Jan.

    In yesterday's newspaper (De Gelderlander) there was an article about an
    article in a German paper (Die Welt), stating that the USA/KLM deal was a
    great one, a major step forward, that it would most probably make Schiphol
    the prime port to Europe, and that also, as a side-effect, most passengers
    from the USA would be put in KLM planes for other European destinations.
    The German paper had also stated that Lufthansa, the German airlines, have
    been trying to negotiate a deal like this for years with the US airlines.
    Die Welt complimented KLM on achieving something that Lufthansa could
    (apparenly) not do.

    FWIW, 0.02c,

    Andr�

    
    
    Just to start this off from my perspective;
    
    The only way to save Digital is to get more business.
    
    How?  Become a time based solutions provider.
    	-Identify a market
    	-Decide if we have solutions.
    	-Act before the competion.
    
    The ability to decide and act quickly is the model for success. The
    organization must think and move fast and independently. 
    
    The markets are changing rapidly, suppliers must be in synch. with
    those changes. Therefore, observation is critical to identify emerging
    markets. Staying in front requires constant changes in vision. The true
    competitor thrives on change they are on a fast cycle framework. 
    
    To compete in this changing market we must win business before the
    competition knows there is an opportunity. We must be places where
    we have not traditionally been, new markets equal new opportunities.
    
    Comments, anyone?
    
    

    Re: .94
    
    They are all terrific words, but they are just words I have heard/read
    alot over the years. (Not to be that blunt but)....major GMT's who had
    such nice words like these too...and where are they now huh?
    
    Please read as from .49  ;^) if you want, I've tried.
    
    Jan.
    
     

    
    One area we are (still) sadly lacking in, is public perception of the
    Company Name. We still get non-crank calls inquiring about watches.
    
    THIS MUST CHANGE!
    
    We need name recognition of the INSTANT variety (IBM presents "YOU MAKE
    THE CALL!") (Monday night Football commercial).
    
    Why have we not done some non-longhair, non-business, LARGE audience
    type advertising? Isn't that "marketing"? Try Winston Cup Racing? It's
    a VERY large audience and really does have some Important Fans. Sponsor
    the Digital Equipment 500, sponsor a team, It's a few million a year,
    but so what? For the price of 30 seconds of Super Bowl air time, you
    have your Corporate Logo and name on National TV in front of MILLIONS
    of fans. LOTS AND LOTS OF WHOM ARE CUSTOMERS! Who will explain who we
    are to their neighbors/friends. ("Yep I hearda them, got some at work.")
    
    And that's MY 2 pennies worth. Complete with flames.
    
    
    .mike.

    RE:-1
    
    Now your question has been on the minds of alot of us for DECades Mike. 
    It's 1992 and I too still get those crancky q'ues "what Digital
    means/iszz?" 
    
    My spot is Europe and a few years back Digital(dared) to put a sticker
    on the nose of a Ferrari F1 car. The effect was nihil, a year later I
    notist the tag was gone. In Germany Digital had a pretty good campaign
    that even made me a little proud. These guys took care of sports event
    tracking, you know, showing on(TV)screen the sports event data and
    under it all(may I say,"our" logo)
    
    Nope, instead of investing in a good solid add campaign we.........ohh
    well.
    
    BTW is Digital selling ATC equipment to the European airlines yet????
    
    ch��  ;)
    Jan. 

    The logo is on the Ferrari nose cone this year, just that it is nearly
    invisible as it is using a light coloured border with the background
    some colour as rest of car. A red logo on a red background, in tiny 3"
    high letters....

    
    	Big deal being on Ferrari.
    
    	Apart from being pretty much invisible, the TV Camera's across
    	Europe only have Ferrari in the picture if it happened to be
        anywhere near the Williams-Renault, which was not much.
    
    	:-)
    

    
>    	Europe only have Ferrari in the picture if it happened to be
>        anywhere near the Williams-Renault, which was not much.
    

...or you are watching the Italian GP, filmed by an Italian crew...

:-)

    IF WE WANT NAME RECOGNITION:
    
    I agree with .96.  We need to build name recognition, so people don't
    keep asking me "Who's Digital?"   One of the better ways IMHO to do
    this is with Winston Cup Racing.  Formula 1 racing is to expensive,
    and I believe targets to small of an audience.  Winston Cup racing
    is the widest viewed motorsport in the world.  For $3 million a year
    you get 29 internationally televised races a year, each lasting at
    least 3.5 - 4 hours each.  If we do this right, you also build an
    advertising/marketing sceme around the team.  Part of the $3 million
    gets a show car or 2 to show up wherever we want it anywhere in the
    country.  If we pick the proper team we could get hours of airtime
    PER RACE x 29 races.
    The words "Digital Equipment Corparation" would be prominently
    displayed down the whole backend of our car (preferably a Lumina).
    On the trunk we could paint "Powered by Alpha" :*)
    
    
    We've all heard of STP, Tide, Budweiser...  In reviewing the reports
    on the effectivness of advertising in Winston Cup, Country Time
    and Dirt Devil noticed an increase in sales due to their sponsorship.
    This sponsorship leads to a strong following.  Sponsoring one
    race wouldn't provide enough bang for the buck, sponsoring a car
    would be exposure for the whole year.  A major bank pays $800,000K
    to Aryton Senna (a formula 1 driver) to place their name in little
    tiny letters on his helmet for 1 year.  A competive F1 car can cost
    upwards of $50 Million a year to field.  For a paltry $3 million,
    you control the whole team for a year, plus you get seen buy a much
    wider audience.  Sponsoring F1, a boat, Indy cars is too expensive
    and not seen by enough people.    
    
    Someone should look into this, I know a few good teams who could produce.
    
    Mike
     

    for name recognition, i also suggestion the game of Chess.
    why you ask? because a typical game of chess lasts 4-5 hours, and
    a big chess match might go on for weeks .
    also in chess the players sit still most of times, and dont move much,
    this way people can easily read our name written on their shirts and
    sleeves.
    most of the advice given so far involves rough sports of continuous 
    movements by the players, which makes reading our name hard and fussy to 
    say the least.
    plus chess is a wise and smarty kind of game, and that is the type of
    activities we want to associate our name with.

    just my 2 cents.

    /nasser

    Actually /nasser might have it right it in all his humor.  Advertising in
    autoracing might be good for some products, and probably all products
    with the right money.  I just believe DEC has a mindset on what
    "calibre" of people buy computers: Golf enthusiasts, The America's Cup
    (sailing), where else?  Even though there is a lot of money in
    autoracing, I sure it's still viewed as the spectator sport of peons.
    
    You know the crowd that buys PC and such: the thirtysomething crowd,
    the baby-boomers, the new-age yuppie-wanna-bes and not the lowly
    commoner who still participates in such violent sports as
    autoracing,etc.
    
    We do need to promote our name; how about during Roseanne or Murphy
    Brown or Married With (more) Children?  With all the hoopla this year
    during the election, we know everyone's tuned into these shows just to
    see what Danny-boy's gonna derive next.
    
    Reg.

    When you say that the Winston Cup has the biggest audience in the
    "world", do you mean the world, or America? As in World Series baseball,
    which never leaves the US.
    
    I for one, am a European who has no idea what the Winston Cup is, and
    despite getting 2 cable (satellite) sports channels, I've never seen
    any mention of it.
    
    Laurie.

    Don't feel left out Laurie ... I live in Worcester Massachusetts, and
    I've never heard of it either.
    
    ... Bob
    

    Winston cup racing had been (for the most part) limited to the south
    and parts of northern/mid US.... Until this past year. Now it is making
    a name for itself in New Hampshere (USA) and would/could be great
    advertising for Digital.
    
    They would have to sponsor a winston cup race team... to get their name
    PROMINENTLY displayed on the car(s)...
    
    I can say there are some race teams that use (at least in part) Digital
    equipment for there statistics and performance information, for the
    cars. Somehow, Digital has missed out on getting recognition from those
    that use the products... I think (can't remember details) a third party
    computer shop is getting the adverts for this equipment...
    
    There is a growing audience for this sport called "Winston cup".
    

    Not that we're actually making a corporate decision here :-) , but I'd
    like to voice a disagreement with .106 -- I'd rather not have DIGITAL's
    name associated as prominently & directly as you suggest with that of a
    tobacco vendor.
    

    re: .107  (KALIKOW)
    
>    Not that we're actually making a corporate decision here :-) , but I'd
>    like to voice a disagreement with .106 -- I'd rather not have DIGITAL's
>    name associated as prominently & directly as you suggest with that of a
>    tobacco vendor.
    
    For Digital's sake, let's hope that Palmer and the BOD are more
    interested in doing whatever legal things it takes to sell our
    computers, software, and services than you are.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    Re: .108 (TOMKOWITZ)
    
    Wokay...
    
    ...Now if _I_ were to seriously suggest that DIGITAL sponsor a
    price-reduced special issue of Trojan (tm) condoms with the DIGITAL
    logo prominently emblazoned thereon, I would expect _you_ to disagree
    strongly, and I expect you would express the view that this is an
    association of our corporate name with an inappropriate product.
    
    ... and THEN, I could wind up and accuse you of "not caring enough" to
    do something legal to sell our computers, software, and services... 
    Despite the _obvious_ close association (of my suggested product
    placement) with Software, Hardware, and yes -- even Service.  :-)
    
    But -- far be it from me to set you up in order to make such a nasty
    accusation -- that you're not interested in the future sales of our
    company.
    
    :-)  Lighten up, hey??  
    
    
    /Dan
    

    who says tobacco is in "inappropriate product" ?  If it makes me happy,
    I'll do it.  Besides, since when are computers safe?  Radiation
    emissions _may_ cause premature births and/or birth defects as well as
    prolonged use at the keyboard is known to cause Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
    not to mention back strain from using incorrect chairs and sitting
    postures and eye strain from screen glare.
    
    But, I take us down a rathole- SORRY.  Back to our regularly scheduled
    programming.
    
    Reg.

    
    Winston Cup racing is sponcered by R. J. Reynolds Corp. 
    They make los of stuff besides tabacco products. They are
    also a MAJOR DEC customer.
    
    Maybe this is a good idea ... maybe not. I don't know. I do
    think Digital needs to get mass name recognition though.
    Especially if we want to be a force in the PC/Desktop world.
    

  Re .109 (Dan)

  ... but if the labelling on your [excellent!] idea was done by the people
  who've just released car stickers in the UK, each 'item' would have to be
  approximately five inches wide and seventeen inches long ... now I know
  that Texans like to inflate their claims a little but ... :-)

  Frank

    re: .109  (KALIKOW) on advertising and cigarettes and condoms...
    
    I'm trying to be as lightened up as I can on this subject.
    
    The topic is about what we can do to save Digital and as I see it,
    things like being too picky or "pure" is a lot of what got us in the
    condition we're currently experiencing.
    
    You mentioned not wanting to associate our name with Winston because
    cigarettes are bad: 
    
         I think of our not wanting to sully our engineering purity
         by supporting the industry standard of the IBM PC. 
    
         I think of small startups pushing out stuff with minimal
         functionality that both define and take the market by storm
         while we work on things for years to come up with a "better"
         product filled with features that no one wants and no one
         buys.  
    
         I think of DECnet pre-dating Netware by years and yet
         Novell's market share makes ours look like noise.
    
    Hell, if DECrubbers could somehow be *successfully* used to make some
    anti-virus software we developed #1, I wouldn't care one bit if a
    couple of employees felt squeamish about it.
    
    We may have to set our standards a little lower than lofty right now or
    we could wind up being the most moral ex-company around.
    
    We gotta do things that help us make money.  Period.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    Providing the uniforms for the track & field events at the
    Olympics would have been a good bet.  The cameras focus on
    the face and chest of the eventers, and a white backround
    with the blue Digital logo would have been a class act......
    The saddle pads and saddle blankets for the horses could have
    had an embroidered Digital logo on them.  The Gymnasts could
    have had white outfits with the logo on them.....
    
    We are talking cheap money, not XX millions here, BTW.....

    I dispise tobacco products.... BUT, it is NOT a "banned substance",
    thus legally sold. I think Digital needs to take advantage of this
    opportunity and sponsor these types of sports....
    
    The Winston Cup computes on Digital products (at least partly). As
    stated earlier, some race teams use Digital products to keep track of
    the maintenance and in the tuning of their car(s).
    
    Some of the other sponsors are also Digital product users. As a
    company, Digital needs to take a REAL HARD LOOK at its marketing
    practices.... PBS "evening at the pops" isn't going to cut it anymore.! 
    
    Maybe they need to get an external marketing firm to design a marketing
    stratagy... rather than having an internal marketing group... NEW
    BLOOD, NEW IDEAS..!
    
    JMHO....
    
    A concerned Employee!!
    

    
    For those many millions of people DON'T know Digital, putting the logo 
    on ANYTHING is not going to help much.....
    
    How about some ads with some hard, straightforward "information" along 
    with images they can associate with or at least think are impressive?   
    And SKIP the JARGON!
    
    "Digital Equipment Corporation 'is' ....."
    "Digital makes ...."
     Here are snazzy pictures of Digital's products MAKING THINGS WORK:
              at companies and places you can identify with or that you
              think are "neat":
         .....at XYZ company, in space, under the sea, to make your phone
              system work, to design new cars, in someone's home, etc. 
    "Digital can give YOU power " ....( snazzy high-tech 'power' graphic )
    "On the job, at home, on the road, anywhere..., YOU can have Digital's 
     technology WORK FOR YOU with ...."
    Pictures of user saying to each other (slowly): "This  stuff  IS  really 
      good...!"
    softly...."And, by the way, no one beats our reputation for service."
    "To find out how we can help you, do .... or ...."
    
     Dennis

    RE: .116
    
    Dennis.... are you by chance in marketing... If not, you might think
    about a career change....
    
    Problem with your approach is, it is to easy.... Digital marketing
    folks could/would never go for "easy"....
    
    IMHO
    
    

    I think the easiest and cheapest way would be to drop the insistence on
    us calling ourselves "Digital", and go back to "DEC". There are simply
    too many other companies, not necessarily in the same field, with
    digital in their name, and too many products with digital written on
    them.
    
    Many, the majority even, of our products are DEC<mumble>, and it's my
    experience that users still call us DEC.
    
    Laurie.

     
     speaking of exposure to the right eyes.....
     
     What happened to the DIGITAL ads in PC Magazine?  I've checked my
     two most recent mags and there is no ad.
     
     There's no more  "Digital has a message for anyone tired of taking
     it on the chin" with boxer and boxing glove ad.
     
     

    Look again.
    
    I have recent issues of both PC Magazine (Oct. 13) and PC World (Oct.'92) 
    and we have our new inserts in both.
    
    Mark.

    They're in the latest issues (28 Sep) of INFO WORLD and COMPUTERWORLD too.
    
    And they look GREAT!!!  They make me prouder to be a DECcie...  :-)
    
    Dan
    

    
    There's a nice ad in PC Magazine (Oct. 13 issue).
    
    Also, a lukewarm review of DECwrite.
    
    Glenn

    re: .104  Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company tracks the various forms of
    motor sports attendance around the world.  Winston Cup racing far
    outsurpasses F1 racing, SCCA, IMSA, WoO, NHRA.... 
    
    .105  Go about 40 miles down the road to Riverside Park, in Agawam
    and catch a modified race their, you might just like it.
    
    .114, The olympics is a 2 week deal, not enough exposure.  You get
    what you pay for,  besides,  what were the TV ratings for Barcelona.
    What about the ~100K people that got the "special channels"?
    
    .116  Each team issues a press kit, which would contain info about
    Digital, what we do and how we do it.  This kit is distributed to 
    the media, which then usually takes it from their.
    
    Nasser - Chess just don't cut it ;*)
    
    Traditionally, this form of racing is big in the south.  In the last
    few years, it has been televised world wide.  Australia has a yearly
    event in the Thunderdome.  Martin Baraine (sp?) from London owns
    a Winston Cup car known as Team Ireland.  It's not stuck down in
    Dixie anymore.
    
    Winston Cup racing doesn't show case destruction and violence.  You
    probably watched the movie "Days of Thunder".  Winston Cup racing
    is about speed and power (hum, kinda like how we want to portray
    Alpha).  
    
    Knock it all you want without knowing the facts, but this stuff sells.
    NASCAR (904-254-2700  ;*)) will give anyone a kit explaining what they
    can do for an entity which wants to get involved.  But that's not
    my ball to drop.  Hopefully, they'll park the show car down at the
    Atlanta CSC for a few days before going to Daytona, to race for $2.7
    million dollars. 

    Whether it would cost $1Million or .50 cents, what counts is are you
    going to reach the target audience with the advertising?  I believe
    this science (?) is called Demographics.  
    
    What you want to do is ensure that the people who will see your ads,
    whether its your Logo on the cap of the Indy 500 winner, or a half page
    ad in the Wall Street Journal, fit your pre-determined set.  The number
    of them that WILL see it has a bearing on how much it will cost you.
    
    -KO 

    
     I think .116 has hit it on the head. I can't recall  all the people
    who ask me what Digital is and what we do, and we are the second
    largest computor manufacturer in the U.S.? We suffer greatly from name
    recognition among the masses. This combined with our jump into the pc
    market means that we need to make more people aware of what who we are
    and what we can do for them.
    
     As much as I like auto racing, I don't think it would provide the
    necessary field for people to find out what we do. Having DIGITAl
    emblazoned on the rear quarter panels of a race car still won't make it
    clear whether we make computors or wrist watches. Inform the masses
    first, then see if we can target the audiences of what ever type is
    going to be most closely aligned with what we are offering. Then maybe
    a few years down the road we can go racing.:-) 
    
     How about this for a go fast idea: align ourselves with Chyrsler Corp,
    so that when they re-enter Winston Cup racing we will be the biggest
    thing since Petty's retirement. Now that would be an event!!
    
    Tony
    

Do our competitors do this sort of advertising?  I don't recall ever seeing
Andersen, EDS, Oracle, TRW sponsoring sporting events.  What about Sun?  HP
does some mass media advertising, but I've never seen it in markets in which
we compete (we don't market our laser printers through the local computer
store).  IBM is the only one I can think of that does this sort of advertising.

   Gary

    Motorola (sp) was advertising on CNN last night during the
    Prez's talk with Larry King. Lots of pictures of their computers,
    etc.

    I think it's pretty safe to say we compete with everyone, everywhere
    and in all walks of life!  I own a DEC PC and I do not live in
    accounting, marketing, sales, or own a business.  I bought it for other
    reasons totally independent of looking for a PC to solve my business
    needs.  I bought a product I believe in, I bought it for home use, I
    bought it for my kids, and I bought it for personal reasons.
    
    Why can't we advertise openly to the population as a whole? telling
    them who DEC is (I agree, not to use Digital Equi..., too long and too
    many other comapnies have the word digital in their name/product)
    and telling them what we sell.  Afterall, the more the masses here our
    name, the more they'll look into our product and maybe even boast about
    it to their employer who will want to buy it for their business.
    
    Maybe I'll win megabucks, too! 8^)
    
    Reg.

    
    For the benefit of our non-U.S. readers, and those in Mass :^)
    NASCAR (National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing) is commonly 
    referred to as Winston Cup Racing, due to the fact that R.J.Reynolds puts 
    up a few million in prize and contingency monies. 
    
    I'd do the KP7 thing if I knew how, but there is a conference'
     (look for NASCAR). The audience is HUGE in the
    U.S. and I don't care WHAT "target market" the marketers aim at, if we
    had a tastefully done, successful class act for a WC team, we would be
    found out about. "IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME!" But they have to
    know about you FIRST! 
    
    But I stray. NASCAR WC racing mandates "look-a-like"
    American mid-size sedans weighing 3500 lbs. minimum, with 355 cubic in
    maximum displacement small-block V8 engines. Average output 600-720 HP.
    Races are on small medium and long tracks, with speeds from slow to
    200+ mph. There are MANY divisions (BUSCH,Modifieds etc,etc)
    
    I'm not saying that WC racing is the best or only solution, far from
    it. But it is a far more effective medium than what we now use.
    
    I recently attended a 5+hour race at Charlotte, North Carolina with my
    wife AND TWO CUSTOMERS, You imply that race fans are PEONS! How dare
    you, you elitist PIG! {FLAME OFF}. There, I feel better now. Our
    seatmates for the "COCA-COLA 600" (hearda them?) were real people who
    influenced millions in purchases, some DEC, some not. (and yes we each
    paid our own way...) We need to reach more people like them. WC can do
    it, and I'd like to think it would help DEC in the long run.
    
    
    'nuff said.
    .mike.
    (and I'm noting from home, after hours, after a 10 hour Saturday,
    after helping generate a 5 digit profit for DEC.)
    
    

    Does Jeff Gordon have sponsorship yet for next year ???  To bad he's
    driving a Chevy. 8^)
    
    Seriously, I share your belief that Winston Cup would
    be a good vehicle to increase DEC mindshare.   Yesterday, for example,
    there were 160,000+ at the Charlotte race, plus another 3-4 million
    watching on TBS.  I feel certain that amongst those millions were
    more than a few folks like me who can spell "computer" and are also
    fanatical about NASCAR's GOB's.

    only peons feel a need to flame on/off.  i include myself in that
    generalization.
    
    Ogre.

            ... sorry, but I can't get the reference made in .131 ...
         

    Re: .130
    Jeff Gordon got DuPont as a sponsor.  McDonalds is entering the sport
    next year also with Jr. Johnson.
    
    I believe the TV audience for the Daytona 500 by STP is over 60
    million world wide.  Not bad for a 4 hour commecial. ;*)
    
    so...
    McDonalds - Offical burger of NASCAR
    Unocal    - Offical fuel of NASCAR
    Craftsman - Offical tools of NASCAR
    IBM       - Offical computer systems of NASCAR  :*(
    
    Mike

    Digital......	official NOTHING, of ANYTHING....!!!???
    
    

	RE: .134 I believe that Digital is the official computer of both
	the NBA and NFL. But I don't know if anyone looks at basketball or
	(American) football.

			Alfred

    
    ref .135   also the National Rugby Association (REAL FOOTBALL)
    
    				University of South Carolina 
    
    
    bc

Use Robert Palmer, the rock star, to do some commercials for us.  "Simply 
Irrisistable" and "Addicted to Love" are two of his best hits.

RE: .129

Point of clarification:

NASCAR is a U.S. motor sports sanctioning body.  It runs several racing series 
for stock car racing.  The most notable is the Winston Cup series (it runs the 
fastest cars and has the biggest purses).  Second most prestigious is the Busch 
Grand National (BGN) series.  Originally, the WC and BGN cars were true stock 
cars--they were cars in general production, with the only modifications being 
some safety and performance enhancements.  These days, in the interests of 
safety, the WC and BGN cars are very rugged, tube-frame chassis whose metal 
skin is made to conform to the outline of the car in question.  So when you 
hear about a Winston Cup driver racing a "Chevy Lumina", the only thing that 
car has in common with the Chevy Lumina that you can buy is the shape of the 
body.

NASCAR races, especially the Winston Cup and Busch Grand National series, have 
the biggest fan following of any form of motor sport in the U.S., especially in 
the Southeast.

--PSW

Are we ignoring the major opportunity being presented at Louden, who is now
getting a Winston Cup Race? Is anyone persuing this at all? does anyone really
CARE about getting DIGITAL known to the real world? We need continuous and
quality air-time, and for my money, WC Racing is a good bet.

If this truly a "He who proposes, Does" kind of company, if I propose it, would
that mean I could hang out the "Team Owners"?

Interesting concept. Who wants to go racing for a living?

.mike.

From:	GENRAL::VOGON::CASEE::VNS "The VOGON News Service  27-Oct-1992 1118" 27-OCT-1992 05:00:37.42
To:	VNS-Distribution
CC:	
Subj:	VNS #2692  Tue 27-Oct-1992

VNS COMPUTER NEWS:                            [Tracy Talcott, VNS Computer Desk]
==================                            [Nashua, NH, USA                 ]

 Digital - Rahal/Hogan Indy race car team with Digital wins 1992 Cart/Indy
	series championship
	{Livewire, Worldwide News, 26-Oct-92}
   The Rahal/Hogan Team Miller IndyCar racing team won the 1992 CART/Indy
 series  championship with Digital's hardware and software.  The championship
 was secured after the Rahal/Hogan team came in third place at the Toyota
 Monterey   Grand Prix at the Laguna Seca Raceway in Monterey, California, held
 on Oct. 18.  Bobby Rahal ended the season with 196 points, 4 points ahead of 
 Michael Andretti, making this one of the closest Indy cup finals.  Rahal is 
 the first rookie owner to win a CART/Indy championship. 
   The Rahal/Hogan team winning strategy was based both on race and car status 
 information continuously monitored on Digital computers by the Rahal/Hogan 
 pit crew and on the crew's ability to relay that information in real time to 
 Rahal, team driver and co-owner.
   This strategy was put to the test dramatically two weeks ago at the Bosch 
 Spark Plug Grand Prix at the Pennsylvania International Raceway in Nazareth 
 Township, Pennsylvania.  While Michael Andretti, the race leader, chose to 
 enter the pits for one last refueling stop, the Rahal/Hogan pit team using 
 Digital's technology, advised Rahal to stay on the track.  The result:  
 Rahal's third win on a 1-mile oval.
   Digital's sponsorship during the 1992 season has helped Rahal/Hogan to use 
 the best mix of people, business, and technology solutions needed to integrate
 their racing enterprise.  As systems integrator, Digital was able to provide:
     o  hardware and software; 
     o  consulting, maintenance, and network services; 		    
     o  platform, network, and utility products; 
     o  and applications to make the most of the 		    
        team's multivendor information systems.

   IndyCar technology includes extensive use of wind tunnels for aerodynamic 
 development, space-age composites for chassis strength, and on-board 
 electronics for real-time engine management and monitoring.  The 
 concept-to-production cycle for race cars is typically four to six months.  
 Advanced information technology can cut development time through use of a CAD 
 system, allowing the team's engineers to spend more time testing the car in 
 computer simulated race conditions.
   Digital performed a "Business Needs Analysis" and provided equipment for the 
 Indianapolis-based Rahal/Hogan team.  The study, a standard Digital offering, 
 helped to tie the enterprise's information needs to its business objectives. 
   Digital provided the Rahal/Hogan team with Digital DECpc 425 CAD PCs for 
 engineering, DECpc 325 PC for office automation, and DECpc 320p Notebook PCs, 
 plus Digital laser, dot matrix, and color printers and a DECpc color monitor. 
 In addition, a DECstation 3100, running under the ULTRIX operating system, is 
 being used for computer-aided design.
   The team is using the Notebook PCs in both engineering and on-track 
 activities, particularly in the pits for real-time data collection as well as 
 analysis of information transmitted by telemetry from the race car's engine 
 management on-board computer. 

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
        Please send subscription and backissue requests to CASEE::VNS

    Permission to copy material from this VNS is granted (per DIGITAL PP&P)
    provided that the message header for the issue and credit lines for the
    VNS correspondent and original source are retained in the copy.

<><><><><><><><>   VNS Edition : 2692     Tuesday 27-Oct-1992   <><><><><><><><>

    Gee, that's real nice that Digital sponsered an "ultimate go-kart"
    team. BUT WHERE THE HELL WAS THE ADVERTISING? I had NO IDEA that Rahal
    and Co. had any connection whatsoever with DEC. Who missed that boat?
    Find him and fire him. Was there even a decal-logo on the car? Granted
    that for the price of few lousy pee-cee's ya don't get much in return
    in a monster bucks operation like IndyKar/F1, I still say we need to
    sponsor a race or team or both.
    
    .mike.

    Sponsoring Loudon would be easy.  Usually the sponsor puts up a portion
    of the purse, say, $1million (Daytona is 2.7M)  A 1 million dollar
    purse at a "brand new" track would be a little high, but considering
    the market (Boston/New England) it would make for a lot of competitor
    interest.  So we're still dealing with a one shot commercial (race)
    or (now) a 30 shot commerical (team).
    
    The last race I was at (Atlanta) was even televised live in England.
    It was interesting that the Governor of our State signed a proclamation
    for the track that went something to the effect of:
    
    The world series in Atlanta generated 2 - 3 million per game, 5 on a
    weekend.  The superbowl is expected to generate 8 - 12 million dollars.
    Atlanta Motor Speedway generates 250 - 300 MILLION.  I guess the
    peons have more money than we thought.  ;')
    
    A couple new names, that some of us may of heard before are joining
    or have joined the series next year.  McDonalds, Kelloggs, Purex,
    Wrangler Jeans (getting back in - hmmm), Dupont and Mayflower.
    
    If your still reading this (thanks) I completely agree with .141
    WHERE WAS THE ADVERTISING.  Let's not spend tons of cash and not
    tell anyone!  As far as Indy car racing (yawn), it's kinda boring
    watching half (15) of the cars blow up and the pole sitter winning
    the race by a one lap advantage.  I'd much rather watch 20 Winston
    Cups cars battling for the win - separated by a few tenths of a 
    second.
    
    Mike

RE: .141

Bobby Rahal's IndyCar does have a Digital logo on it.

We (DEC) were contracted by Rahal/Hogan racing as system integrators for their 
computer systems.  They use DEC gear and software for CAD work and other stuff. 
DEC Italy does the same sort of thing for Ferrari (the Ferrari F1 car has a 
Digital logo on the front of the nose).  We also buy billboard space along the 
racetrack at various F1 races.

--PSW

    .143
    
    While we may stick a little decal on Bobby Rahal's car, we don't
    follow up the rest of the program.  This is obvious because even
    die hard race fans I've been hearing from had NO IDEA we were 
    involved at all.
    
    Ususally in conjunction with sponsoring something like a race car
    you publicize it, especially if he's the CART champion.  TeeVee,
    trade papers, etc...  
    
    Bobby Rahal, 1992 CART world champion... got there by using DEC
    products, call us and see what we can do for you <blah blah>.
    
    Also in addition to using it in advertising, the sponsor can have
    the car appear at certain functions during the year.  I get the feeling
    though that DEC takes a back seat (as an associate sponsor) while
    Miller Genuine Draft controls what happens with the car.  Have you
    seen *their* commercials?
    
    Mike

RE: .144

Yes, you're right.

--PSW

    Is anyone listening who can fix this?

    
    
    The car was at DECworld, and most recently at AUTOFACT in Detroit...
    
    

    
    Then why hasn't anyone I know heard about it? 
    
    ("Hey Mike - you mean you guys sponsor race cars AND make watches too?")
    
    .mike.