Conference 7.286::digital

    Wrong end, wrong stick.
    
    Laurie.

    
    RE: .1
    
           Brilliant, message spot on !
    
    Re: .2 Do us a favour... Take a holiday ... Preferably one that
           includes a course in positive thinking !
    

RE:                      <<< Note 1895.3 by GENIE::MORRIS >>>
�                         -< The two sides of Digital >-
    
�    RE: .1
�           Brilliant, message spot on !
    
    Are you sure that you don't mean .0 there? .1 was a very negative
    response, which, incidentally has been deleted, presumably by the
    author.
    
�    Re: .2 Do us a favour... Take a holiday ... Preferably one that
�           includes a course in positive thinking !
    
    Now, I wrote .2, which was a reply to .1. "Wrong end, wrong stick"
    means that the author of the now deleted .1 had not only got the wrong
    end of the stick, but the wrong stick altogether. In other words, he'd
    missed the message by a mile.
    
    Now, assuming you *did* mean .2, would you care to reappraise your
    note?
    
    Laurie.

    
    re. 4
    
      I second .3 , take a holiday or change your notes "personal name"
    to something a little more professional. Actually I'd like a moderator
    to hide it, no delete it.
    
    re. 0
       Thanks for posting that excerpt.
    
    clay
    

    If it's Churchillinalia you want, I can produce quite a bit. In many
    cases the speeches are applicable.
    
     One thing Winston was known for was cutting red tape.....
    
    Gregg

    Laurie, Apologies.... By the time I saw it .1 had dissapeared and I 
    assumed (incorrectly !) that I was reading . 1 and not .0 and it was to
    the base note that you refered....Hence my amazement at your remarks!!
    
    We all make mistakes !!! Sorry for any offence caused..
    
    Chris
    

    No problem Chris, I'd guessed that was what had happened. No offence
    taken, at least that is, to your notes. I wonder why .1 got
    deleted....
    
    Laurie.

.5> Thanks for posting that excerpt.

    You're welcome.

    When I came across it last evening it struck me as odd that it was 52
    years ago to the day that this was delivered to the House of Commons
    and for some not-so-strange reason I drew an immediate parallel to the
    situation that Digital is in ... wishing that I could see some of the
    "pull together" spirit that Winston's message inspired.

    With due apologies, I've changed the title of the base note ... perhaps
    it would be interesting to repeat some quotations from history that are
    applicable to Digital Equipment Corporation and the relative "turmoil"
    that we're going through right now.

    You see, in a fit of insomnia last evening I ran across another quote
    from a famous person:

    		"A house divided against itself cannot stand..."

    						Abraham Lincoln
    						June 16, 1858

    Applicable?  Like you wouldn't believe.

    OK - add to the list.

    Bubba

    I think the quote from Churchill creates a momentary sense of
    inspiration!   It is only a momentary inspiration for two reasons.
    First, (Churchill's words not withstanding) the English can be
    credited with great perseverance but were in deep trouble until
    the US joined into the war.   Point being, who is going to come in
    and save DEC?   The answer is nobody, we have to do it ourselves!!!
    And do it soon!
    
    Which leads to the second point, Churchill said something about
    having only blood, sweat, toil and tears to contribute.   There are
    a great many of us contributing the same, with heroic effort and
    intent.   Unfortunately, based on conversations in the halls and
    especially in this notes file, there are too many of us who offer
    only tears, handringing and self indulgent, petulant and misinformed
    criticism of the corporation and its leadership.
    
    We are in a war!   We're either going to win it and regain our self-
    esteem and leadership position in the industry or we're going to be
    relegated to a chapter in the computer history books.   It's up to each
    of us to contribute more sweat, more toil, more blood and to positively
    influence that which we can.   Our odds of winning are improved, and I
    probably ensured.   And if we fail, we fail fighting!
    
    As for those unwilling to join the battle, why don't you get lost!
    Digital can't afford you anymore and probably never needed you!
    
    Regards, from the front...
    
    Kevin
    

    I think that a lot of us (in manufacturing) making "ammo for the front"
    are afraid that we'll gonna wind up being cannon fodder ourselves.....;-)
    
    Lynn

Of course, the crisis confronting England was strictly an external threat over
which they had little control.

The crisis facing Digital is as much internal mismanagement and bureaucracy
as external competition.

The good message about working collectively will be more achievable when the
hatchet falls on the "bosses" out there, so that leaders may emerge.  Until 
then, morale will continue to be poor.

My $.02

Bob

    
    Jerry,
    
    Where is the part that would be translated to: "We will fight them in
    the boardrooms ... we will fight them in the glass houses ... we will
    fight them on the desktops... we will never surrender."
    
    Or was that a different speech?
    
    JP

As .12 said, we are not facing an external threat. We certainly are not facing
"a monstrous  tyranny,  never  surpassed  in  the  dark, lamentable catalogue of
 human crime". I certainly wouldn't assign such a label to HP, Sun, IBM, etc.

Then, there are those who complain about people who try to point out
what is wrong with the company. They remind me of the "America - love it or
leave it" crowd. As if pointing out what is wrong with a country means that
one does not love it. Working harder alone will not solve the problems this
company has. We are trying to dig ourselves out of a hole; digging harder will 
not help if we are digging down.

Well, my build has finished; I have to get back to work.

    Re .14
    I agree. DEC does not need "blood, sweat, toil, and tears". DEC needs
    intelligent direction.
    
    Hillel
    

    And another reason why .0 isn't _quite_ applicable...
    
    In .0, the enemy was obvious, and the only decisions were how to
    tactically fight the enemy.  One enemy (at that time) and they weren't
    exactly subtle.
    
    In the case of Digital, we don't agree on the enemy, except that it
    results in unprofitability.  Is it IBM, HP et al?  That implies one
    strategy.  Is it cheap PC Clones?  That's another.  Or was Pogo right?
    "We have met the enemy, and it is us."

    RE:.12
    
    Actually I think you miss the point of the Speech... Churchill was chosen
    to run a coalition War government... IE both political parties for once
    joined together as one... Combined against the larger problem at hand.
    
    He saw the main threat as internal not external (I think we did have
    some element of control.. if history serves me correctly I think it
    was actually us who declared war) 
    
    This and other speeches basically said, forget our differences for now
    lets all work together and I will do all I can to that end..I will put
    aside party difference and lead the country.
    
    It worked well until the end of the war. Then the threat went away the
    need for unity declined... The parties went back to their sides...
    Recession set in... The rest is history
    
    The message is , we face a survival issue to, yes we may not have
    historicaly agreed on things in the past for very valid reasons,
    but now we face something that we can all agree on, lets put aside our
    differences temporarily and fight as one .... The only alternative, is
    eventual defeat to a stronger, more united foe
    
    In the words of the Musketeers:
    
    	All for one and one for all !
    
    	United we stand, Divided we fall !
    
    Chris...,
                                                                       

    Whilst on history quotes... This one may be interesting but a little 
    deep...But probably relevant
    
    				...
    
    When the priest was called to Machiavelli's deathbed, he asked him
    if he had now renounced the Devil...
    
    "This", he said,  "Is no time to be making new enemies"
    	
    

      The Churchill 52nd-anniversary quote was interesting, but I'm not
    too sure about the value of comparing warfare to day-to-day business,
    beyond an emotional level.   The real winners around, today, seem to
    be the Japanese, who historically also fought very hard, maybe had
    good orators, lost a big war for the first time, and discovered
    economic success over a long period.   
    
      As commented in another string here (around Deming), the Japanese
    didn't succeed by selling junk or undercutting prices, either.   They
    just developed visions to get some routine things right, then kept on
    doing the routine things well, and adding to the visions.   It's maybe
    a bit boring for Anglo-American tastes, but having a big economic
    effect.

    Its the same message I think... Its unity in the struggle thats the
    message not war, wether that struggle be defending what you feel to 
    be right or building to overcome a severe loss. You stand a better
    chance of either if you act in a unified way.
     
    The West German and Japanese people were unified in their defeat and
    became the post war giants that they are (were?) today. It did't 
    happen by accident. 

    .21's right on succeeding by acting in a unified way, and some
    the earlier discussion covers the responsibility we all have to form
    up around a leadership, to get out of this mess.
    
      The Japanese have a better computing/electronics industry than
    the West Germans, though, and quite a few other economic advantages.
    Merely having an outside threat to unite a group, doesn't necessarily
    help people in the group make all the right decisions.   In abstract
    terms, group discussion, followed by group action, then iterative
    discussion/action, may require severe changes to group norms.
    Conflicts may have to be resolved in different ways to formerly, etc.
    
      In the context of the Churchill quote, the country had to be led by
    a coalition political leadership including non-mainstream
    Conservatives, rather than by the former establishment-based
    Conservative government.   This coalition avoided losing the war,
    but only lasted a few years, dissolving when enough conditions changed.

    I am not sure if this quote is associated with anyone. However, in the
    last couple of years I am convinced that while competition is keen:
    
         "We have met the enemy. And he is us."
    
    Gene

    Pogo

    
    Actually, it was Porky 'Pine, but to stop any ratholing in its tracks-
    
    it was Walter Crawford Kelly.
    
    Boy, could we use him this year!
    
    rjc
    

    But the original. Sentence was not fragmented.

    See if this Churchillism fits:
    
     "When the situation was managable, it was neglected, and now that it
    is thoroughly out of hand, we apply too late the remedies which might
    then have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as
    old as the Sibylline books. It falls into that long dismal catalogue of
    the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of
    mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be
    simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of councel
    until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring
    gong - these are the features which constitute the endless repetition
    of history."
    
    	Churchill, May 2, 1934

Ahhh Gi'day...

	   That man certainly had control of the English language.

    I wish I could write like that too. But then, neither one of us are
    Victorians, are we?

    Accused of what?

    I hardly think you could accuse Churchill of being Victorian !
    
    Except by birth !
     

    He was the very essence of VictorianEdwardian thinking and times.
    
    Besides, birth is all you needed to belong to the "Victorians"....
    
    and the notion of Victorian propriety was somewhat "gilded", if you
    know what I mean.
    
     However, what do you think of the paragraph? Is it relevant?

    Yes , Very !
    

    The name eludes me, but one of the ancient Egyptian scribes, more than
    2,000 years ago, came up with a maxim that, in the current atmosphere,
    seems quite appropriate:
    
    "Do not run around in circles merely to be not standing still."
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    Here's a couple more from Churchill (courtesy of Bartlett's):
    
    "Nothing is more dangerous in wartime than to live in the 
    tempermental atmosphere of a Gallup Poll, always feeling
    one's pulse and taking one's temperature."
    
    "Here is the answer which I will give to President Roosevelt...
    Give us the tools and we will finish the job."
    
    "Now this is not the end.  It is not even the beginning of
    the end.  But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
    
    and my personal favorite:
    
    "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."
    
    
    Glenn

My personal favorite is "It ain't over til the fat lady sings"...

y. berra (I think) 

- George

>> My personal favorite is "It ain't over til the fat lady sings"...

>> y. berra (I think) 

>> - George


I though Yogi said "It ain't over 'til it's over."

Bob.

TFSO:  "The Fat Lady Sang, Ollie..."

My favourite quote was from Bill Shankley, who was manager of Liverpool
football club in the 60's and early 70's. Asked to express his feelings
about the local derby matches between Liverpool and Everton (they are
both very close geographically), he said:

"It's not a matter of life or death. It's much more important than that".

								- Ian W.

    Dick Motta, former coach of the NBA's Washington Bullets, is the one
    who said "The Opera ain't over til the Fat Lady Sings."  Yogi Berra's
    contributions to Bartlett's Famous Quotations are too numerous to list
    here.
    
    John

    When I worked at a large automotive company we had a tradition of
    putting a quote on the chalk board every day.  Most of the time the
    bosses would get a chuckle out of some one's words of wit.  One morning
    some one put on the board:
    
    "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the management!"
    
    A memo came out somewhat later indicating that it personal comments
    were not to be posted unless approved by the personnel department etc.
    etc. etc.  That quote seems appropriate here today.
    
    Dave Russell
    

    re: .42
    
    Dave,
    
    Come on ... this type of comment does nothing but build up even more
    barriers within the corporation and is not appreciated - at least by
    this manager.  Last time I checked we all worked for the same company.  
    
    

Ahhh Gi'day...

    "Think Globally, Act Locally!" - used by the environment movement.

    It floored  me  when I was having an argument with someone.  Stopped me
    dead in my tracks. That usually takes some doing...

    "The future ain't what it used to be"
    
    Attributed to Casey Stengel
    
    

From those eminent Massachusetts philosophers, Click and Clack:

"You get what you pay for," and "It's the stingy man who pays the most."

    

    I have a newspaper cutting above my desk (don't know where it comes
    from) which says:
    
    	"A sinking ship is not the place for long discussions"
    
    Says it all, for me!
    
    Mike

     At the last company I worked for, we were sent to a business expo
     flying in first class. When asked why as it didn't seem right for a
     startup company, the head of marketing said, "When you travel on the
     Titanic, you might as well go first class."

     Two years later, we were in chapter 11.