Conference 7.286::digital

    I think there are going to be a lot of reply's to this one!!
    
    set flame=ON
    
    I work in a field office, and sometimes when I call the main
    swithcboard number in the middle of the day the phone is just not
    answered - at all - I have let it ring for hundreds of rings before
    giving up.
    
    This is the number customers use if they are calling (for instance) to
    buy something. When I complain, it is explained that we have direct
    inward dialing and you should know the extention of the person you want
    so you can dial direct.  They reduced operator coverage at the front
    desk for this reason.  
    
    This is crazy!!
    
    

I had one that's happened several times in the past month. I call person XYZ
and get a voicemessage that tells me to either leave my name and number after
the tone or press 0 to get assistance from a live person. I press 0 and guess
what!

Yep...I get the secretary's voicemessaging service!

this is getting real tired...

-Terry

    How many customers have we lost because of this? God only knows. You'd
    think that in this time of belt-tightening,somebody like Zereski would
    come down hard on those responsible. Personally,I've just given up on
    calling certain people,when I've been transferred to umpteen voice mail
    machines.
    
    Ken

    This is interesting...  It isn't just field offices (or maybe its 
    especially not just field offices).
    
    Between 3 and 5 East coast time yesterday afternoon, and between 8:30
    and 09:30 East coast time this morning, I watched my UM make no less
    than 40 phone calls to various people in product and support
    organizations.  I have no idea where they were but prefixes were
    typically 381, 264, and a ton of others.  On all this time he managed
    to reach a grand total of 2 secretaries who had no idea where the
    people we sought could be found, innumerable recorders for things like
    "You have reached the Spitbrook Road facility", a ton of personal
    voicemails, pressed "0" many times to be sent to unanswered phones, and
    eventually this morning received a return phone call from someone
    substituting for the person he sought who was unavailable.  He talked
    to phone screeners who indicated they didn't know who the supervisor or
    manager of the group he was attempting to reach were, where the
    specialists were, why noone was available, or much of anything else.
    
    It was a VERY eye-opening experience for a new UM.  He now understands
    that I was not insane when I spoke of "the wall", and has a MUCH better
    understanding of why we aren't getting results.  
    
    Maybe Don Z gave the wrong part of the corporation a "5"?

RE:       <<< Note 1409.2 by AGENT::LYKENS "Manage business, Lead people" >>>

>I had one that's happened several times in the past month. I call person XYZ
>and get a voicemessage that tells me to either leave my name and number after
>the tone or press 0 to get assistance from a live person. I press 0 and guess
>what!

Heaven forbid a customer pressing 0 to get human intervention with
voice mail!  The changes of getting anyone are close to zero.  In many
groups that's a sure way to get a phone to ring forever.  Mon dieu!

Have you ever gotten into a voice mail infinite loop?

re .0

Personally, if I were a senior manager, I would have you reprimanded for
sitting on a long distance phone call (Yup, the meter starts running when you
called the switch), for over twenty minutes. 

re .4

Now hold on, Bucko. Twice, you refered to ZKO in your note. Let's get a few
things straight here.

1. ZKO is predminantly an engineering facility. Field Support is not within
TNSG's or VSS's (the two main occupants of the Facility) charter. Yes,
elevating directly to the product manager, or design engineer may seem to
solve your problem, but it a) wastes their time, and b) underutilizes the
resources that they are busy putting effort into establishing to cope with
this situations (i.e. Area Support groups, DCC's, Partner program members).

Despite popular belief, it is not people's responsibility to sit at their desk
waiting for you.

2.Re secretaries. The typical coverage rate here, is in the order of 1 secretary
per 50-80 people. They are stretched damn thin, and bust their buns to keep
phones etc covered, but they do have the old little thing to consider, like
lunch, taking minutes in meetings, going to the bathroom etc.

3. Apart from Writing Code, I Manage a system, that looks after a few dozen
engineers and Product Management people. I routinely check to make sure that
everyone on our cluster has up-to-date elf entries and MTS routing. I know of
other System Managers, that do they same, and I believe both ZKO and MKO are
exemplary in the efforts taken by the facility management people to make sure
that the optimum communications services are available.

4. To quote a popular poster "Lack of planning on your part, does not
constitute an emergency on my part." The Product Manager in the office across
the hall from me, just spent 3 nights last week working back till after 11pm
trying to help a field office with an RFP, and all he got was abuse for not
being there when they rang... He has a product to ship, He has an engineering
team to liase with in another facility, he has PAC submissions to prepare and
take to maynard, he has publicity people and documentation folk to work with
to make sure enough information gets out to the field, about the product. He
has to Liase constantly with CSSE, SQM, ISE et al to make sure that everything
happens that should about his product. That is what he is goaled on. Not on
sitting waiting for someone from the field to insist that everything else be
dropped as his customer is the most important thing to the corporation...

Yes, answering phones, is a priority. It is regularly highlighted by Senior
management around here. But, it is not what we do to make money...

Before you tell me to pull my head in, I have spent over ten years in Digital
working in places a lot more remote from the Greater Maynard area, than New
York is. While I sometimes found support chains difficult to deal with, I made
every effort possible to allow for delays, and to fit in with the busy
schedule of those I was asking for help.

I've said it before in this conference, and I'll say it again. Our biggest
problems at the moment are 1. People who run around yelling "the sky is
falling", and saying we are going to go under. And people who manage to find
fault with the rest of the corporation, but never with themselves..

Good night...

Peter Q.

RE: .0, .4

DTN 381-xxxx is Spit brook Road (ZKO, mainly TNSG, VMS Engineering and ULTRIX
Engineering).  264-xxxx is Merrimack, NH.  I can't speak for Merrimack, but
at ZK, very few of the people who work here are involved in direct customer
contact.  We all have direct inward dial phones, most of which auto-forward
to a secretary's desk.  The secretarial situation in the TNSG cost centers is
as .6 describes.  My own group has 3 secretaries for 12 line managers/
supervisors and 130 individual contributors (engineers and a few staff).
Our secretaries have an awful lot to do in addition to taking phone messages
for others who are away from their desks.

Far and away the best way to reach people in ZK (at least the engineers) is
to send electronic mail.


Now I do agree that this situation would be intolerable where customer calls
are involved.  Were we, say, a sales or customer support organization, we
ought to have phones monitored continuously during working hours.  But we're
not.

--PSW

    I've had DEC folks call me and leave a message (with secretary..I don't
    have voice mail) to return the call. I've done that and gotten THEIR
    voice mail, left the message and never heard from them again. I've gone
    as far to send a mail message (you called while I was out, was not able
    to reach you, what's up...) but never heard from the person again.

    	For internal communications we should ALL get in the habit of
    	using electronic mail.   Unfortunately, few customers have that
    	option.
    
    	I agree that it is terrible that phones go unanswered in this
    	company.  Mine is one of them.  Here at the CSC half of my
    	phone calls on my personal line are from call screeners telling
    	me that customer xyz is calling back for me.  If the screener
    	gets no answer they put the call in our group return call
    	queue.  Can you imagine the impact on out secretary's job it
    	would be if all those calls get bounced to her?  For all 40
    	specialists?
    
    	But then there are the other half of my calls... Most disturbing
    	to me are the missed calls from local offices who are working
    	a special issue with a customer.  It is important that I know
    	they called, but often I do not find out until they call back
    	later.  I wish I had voicemail on my phone.
    	
    	I don't mind dealing with voicemail.  People have it on their phone
    	for a reason -- to collect calls while they are unavailable.
    
    	As a customer suppoer specialist it is important to me that I
    	let our customers know I at least attempted to call them.  If
    	I try to call them back and do not leave a voicemail or a
    	message with a secretary, then as far as they are concerned
    	I never tried to get back to them.
    
    	FWIW, most of the other companies out there are no better than
    	we are when it comes to phone messaging.  That is not to say 
    	that it justifies our practices, but it is an observation from
    	a person who makes his living calling back customers all day
    	long.
    
    	Some of the disturbing elements of my phone interaction:
    
    	*	Customer calls to the center with a problem.  The
    		call goes in the queue.  I call them back within 10
    		minutes and they are not there.
    
    	*	Customer calls in with a problem.  Leaves a number
    		but no extension.  I call and get their automatic
    		call forwarder.  "Enter the 4-digit extension or 
    		wait for further instructions."  They left no extension.
    		Further instructions give me a list of 4-digit department
    		codes, but no live operator.  I randomly try departments
    		until I get real voices.  Finally one of them has a
    		company directory and gives me the extension of the
    		person I want.  Ironically, that person designed the
    		phone routing system!  It was a pleasure to describe
    		MY problem to him before solving his.  :^)
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    The other thing about reaching people at ZKO *fast* is to use VAX mail
    if you have it.  I know that ALL-IN-1 is the standard, but we don't have
    it here.  We do have an overworked router called @ZKO that spends a lot
    of time fooling around with Message Router and eventually, on good
    days, delivers ALL-IN-1 messages to our VAX accounts.
    
    But IF you have a VAXmail account and IF your highest priority is
    reaching a person at ZKO fast, try using it.  Almost everyone I know
    tries to keep a mail session open on their workstation and keep up with
    incoming mail when at their desks. Unlike ALL-IN-1 mail, VAXmail is
    delivered immediately unless you use NM%mail.
    
    No matter where in the world I am, if I can get to a terminal, I try to
    keep up with VAXmail.  Phone messages reach me as long as the secretary
    sends me VAXmail about them ;-)
    
    I'm one of the people at ZKO that does do a lot of customer 
    and field support. I'm often away from my desk.  It can be very hard to
    reach me by phone, especially if I'm teaching a lot.  If you send me
    VAXmail, I have enough information to usually answer your message when
    I get to the terminal.  But playing phone tag doesn't leave me with
    with enough information to do more than keep playing phone tag.
    
    At the same time, I know not all of you have constant access to terminals.
    My point is, if and when you do, VAXmail is a very effective way to
    quickly reach most product and development people at zko.
    
    Holly

As another ZKO Engineering resident (and former MKO engineering resident), I'd
like to add that Peter and Paul have basically hit all the high points in
.6 and .7. We're not really here to be waiting for calls from the field (but
I'd think we _would_ like to help where we can), and using electronic mail
may be your best bet.

We don't have a voice messaging system in my group, but we have an answering
machine that serves the group. One thing that would help when callers leave
a message on the machine, is a brief idea of the nature of the call (support
problem with DECfoo, DECmumble customer ready to sue, technical question on
DECfratz, etc.). When I get a message that says "Joe Schmoe called from CZO",
I have no way of knowing if he's responding to my latest entry in CLASSIFIED_ADS
or what, and it's difficult to place a priority on my getting back to him.

In any event, Electronic mail is probably _THE_ best way to reach many
engineers. I know for a fact that all of my staff clearly understands the
importance of keeping up with electronic correspondence (since it's just
as easy for people to get a hold of _me_ if they don't :^) ). I set no
expectations regarding telephone messages.

One other point worth mentioning, when you do reach a human being on the
phone and they have no idea who the person is that you're trying to reach,
don't be too surprised. Keep in mind that anyone can have their calls
forwarded practically anywhere they want (even chained), and that ZKO and
MKO are each occupied by literally thousands of people. I've been in my
present group for over three years, yet I haven't a clue as to the function
of the group right next to us (well, one of them, anyway).

-Jack

    .6 to .11 refers to ZKO.  Basically everyone trying to reach ZKO ought
    to be able to do so by email because since both sides of the connection
    have access to email.  The phone situation in ZKO isn't professional,
    but it's understandable.
    
    The real problem is in field offices where one side of the connection
    is not an employee and doesn't have recourse to email.

RE: Past few on Spitbrook

Spitbrook is certainly the worst site in the company for answering
phones.  O.K., so it's an engineering facility so maybe we can let quite
a bit of business unprofessionalism slip there.  (Note that it probably
should not be allowed to slip.  So we have EMAIL but what happens when
you need to call someone when you're away on a trip? You can think of
other scenarios.)

This problem is occuring all over the company and it seems to be getting
worse.  Who knows how much business we are losing because of this?  I
know of no other company, besides AT&T, where you can call and no one
will answer.

    I wouldn't consider that an engineering facility has any excuse for
    business unprofessionalism.  True, talking to customers is not our
    primary job, but when we do, we need to be professional.  Remember too
    that we engineers do have "customers," aka "the field."
    
>Spitbrook is certainly the worst site in the company for answering
>phones.  
    
    I wonder how much of that is because ZKO phones have been de-belled.
    You hardly even hear your neighbor's phone ring, (and I believe that
    this was by design) so you wouldn't normally answer somebody else's
    phone.  Of course, nowadays there's voicemail and after three rings
    the call goes to the machine.
    
    Speaking of voicemail, secretaries are not supposed to have forward-
    able lines, and they should be covering each other if they are away
    from the desk.  In practice, deliberate understaffing (to reduce
    overhead) means that phone coverage often suffers.
    
    Also, this voicemail system we have can't make the phone flash if
    there's new voicemail.  If you don't develop the habit of picking
    up the phone after returning to your desk, and if you don't pick up
    the phone to call somebody very often, you can easily let the voicemail
    sit in the system for a long time.
    
    Another problem with our voicemail system is that your password can
    expire without warning (if you happen to forget when it expires) and
    you have to go to a lot of trouble to get a new password.  Thus, in
    effect the voicemail system has developed into a black hole for some
    people.
    
    Personally, I do return phone calls unless I'm travelling, and when I
    do travel I use WATCH_MAIL.  I wonder now if I should add my VAXMAIL
    address on my recorded message.
    
    I don't answer my neighbors' phone.  I hope that is not what is
    considered "unprofessional," but I would like other perspectives too.
    

RE: .14

Our group at ZKO doesn't have voicemail.  We do have answering machines.
The secretaries send the answering machine messages to us via VMSmail.

--PSW

RE .6:

>Now hold on, Bucko. Twice, you refered to ZKO in your note. Let's get a few
>things straight here.
>
>1. ZKO is predminantly an engineering facility. Field Support is not within
>TNSG's or VSS's (the two main occupants of the Facility) charter. Yes,
>elevating directly to the product manager, or design engineer may seem to
>solve your problem, but it a) wastes their time, and b) underutilizes the
>resources that they are busy putting effort into establishing to cope with
>this situations (i.e. Area Support groups, DCC's, Partner program members).
>
>Despite popular belief, it is not people's responsibility to sit at their desk
>waiting for you.
    
    Well, "Bucko", given the above I'd say the system worked perfectly. 
    When I see him on Monday, I'll make sure the UM knows that attempting
    to contact the product manager by telephone for a product that has
    already spawned two CLDs would "waste their time".

    Sorry Quoddles and the other ZKO crowd,
    
    I cant wear this attitude that you are Engineering and therefore too
    precious to talk to customers. Its precisely this reason that
    Engineering has to get closer to the consumer. Ok, so it may not
    seem important to answer your phone, but one wrongly dialed digit may mean
    your product manager or some other person misses business.
    
    I've had three wrong numbers this year, one of them was business,
    its not the first time. Yes, I also look after systems and write
    code for a living. And it gives me the shits when my phone rings
    while I'm elsewhere and no one moves to pick it up. If you dont
    want to be disturbed find someone who is near you who is willing
    to be and autoforward your phone to them. Dont just let it ring
    on. 
    
    Lets have respect that someone may be ringing you for a reason,
    Ted Fieldperson may only be working on a measly 1 Million dollar
    sale for your product, but enough of those soon add up.
    Remember that the product you produce does not just include the
    software or hardware you design, its also the face of the support
     that the customer gets, in timeliness and quality of support.
    If you are too important to respond to the people who ensure your
    product sells and therefore your job exists, at least make sure your
    calls are covered. I'd much rather cut code too, but I realise that
    if I dont answer the phone there may not be enough business to warrant
    the company letting me do that in the future. Get the idea.
    
    Anyway, enough sermons,
    John Baker
    EIC/Engineering, Sydney

    I can see both sides of this. I'm in engineering too.
    
    I think it is unreasonable for people to expect to reach an
    engineer/product manager immediately every time they call them. I too
    expect electronic mail to be sent.
    
    But if somebody does call me and either gets me or leaves a voicemail
    message I consider it one of my top priorities to talk to them.
    People get put into one of three categories:
    
    	1, It was indeed me they should be talking to.
    
    	   I'll do the necessary research to answer their questions to the
           best of my ability.
    
    	2, They've run round the system and have got my name from a
           notesfile or something.
    
    	   If I know the answer to the question or it takes only a few
           minutes to find the answer I will help them out.
    
    	   If it would take me a long time to work out the answer and it
           isn't really my job I will refer them to someone who is meant
           to handle this sort of question. I do my best to make sure
    	   that I redirect to the correct organization/person so as not
    	   to send the person on a wild goose chase.
    
    I consider the above to be a professional way to deal with my
    communications.
    
    Now I could go on to tell you about all those field people who refuse
    to answer EMAIL and who are impossible to get hold of on the phone. I'm
    running into this at the moment.
    
    Dave

    My call was not to ZKO or MKO but was to a sales support office in the
    field. I don't want to get into this debate about whether engineering
    should ot should not answer the phone. I'm very concerned that my calls
    were to a field office and I got bounced from someone's voicemail to
    someone's secretary's voicemail. This was not meant to bash
    secretaries. I believe their jobs have evolved over the years to much
    more than the answer the telephone_take dictation_type reports_
    handle travel and meeting arrangements of the past. What concerned me
    most that in a field office likely as not a call is from a customer and
    if I were still a customer as I was for 16 years I would have been
    more than mildly aggitated to get this voicemail to voicemail nonsense.
    
    -Terry

>    If you are checking status on a CLD, then it's best to have the
>    designated field problem manager contact the designated CSSE problem
>    manager.  
    
    They weren't checking the status on anything.  The CLDs are being
    handled just fine by CSSE.  
    
    >Product managers are not part of the escalation path to resolution, and
    >attempts to contact those other than the responsible individuals is
    >simple arm-waving.
    
    Interesting...  so far attempting to talk to a product manager about
    their product has been "wasting their time" and "arm-waving".  Any
    others?

    
    I believe that we have a "status culture" around answering phones
    which only adds to the confusion....
    "Only secretaries answer phones..."
    "It reflects well on me to be unavailable....I must be in demand!"
    etc etc, and I'm sure you can think of several others.
    
    >FLAME ON<
    
    I will always pick up an incoming phone - if it's ringing within
    earshot, I'll answer it.
    It could be a customer.
    
    If you are unlikely to get called by a customer (and any of us could
    get the odd call....) then picking up the phone is still a priority
    because it will be a colleague of yours who wants to talk about
    an issue that impacts a customer. If you can't see how their issue
    is related to customers, ASK THEM.
    Then prioritise them accordingly.
    
    I'm sure this is a simplistic view, but I get very heated
    about this. Telephone is the main, if not only, method that customers
    have available to contact Digital. This alone is enough to want
    us to ensure that phones get answered, by humans, as often
    as goddmaned possible.
    
    >FLAME OFF<
    
    'gail

    I don't think status has anything to do with it.
    
    All you need to do is look around any Digital office area.
    
    Only about 25% of the people are at their desks at any given time.
    
    I won't try to judge whether the activities that take them away from
    their office areas are legitimate.  I couldn't possible know.
    
    Given the fact that calling someone on the phone has the same chance of
    success as getting two heads in throwing two coins, a realistic person
    will use other means of communication.
    
    My personal practice is:
    
    If the person is in the same physical plant, I go to his/her area.  I
    need the exercise and I'm likely to have a more intelligent
    conversation with a few minutes of preparation while I'm walking.
    
    If that is not true, but I know enough about the person's habits to
    guess that s/he is at the desk, I phone.
    
    Otherwise, I send electronic mail, VAXmail for engineers or All-in-One
    for those unknown to me.
    
    [I am prejudiced against phone conversations with unknowns, or when
    the topic is complex or emotional.]
    
    FWIW,
    
    Dick

    I was one of the people at "Corporate Telecom" that was involved with
    the start of voice mail within Digital. I no longer work in that
    organization, but stay up to date on the technology.  That said, I have
    some comments and suggestions.
    
    -There is an voice mail implementation "guideline" that should be used
    by telecom groups installing voice mail.  A person should not dial
    "zero", have it ring, and then go to a secretaries voice mailbox.  That
    is implemented wrong.  Don't complain here, let them know what happened
    to you and get them to redesign the coverage system.
    
    -In most cases, secretaries have "soft numbers" that are used for
    people exiting from voice mail; as has been stated here though, people
    are not always at their desks (even secretaries!).
    
    -RE:15  Sorry Marge, have to take you up on this comment.  The people
    did not "chintz" on the implementation for the following reasons.  The
    SL100's that serve the Merrimack, Marlboro, Maynard, and Acton clusters
    were installed a few years ago.  At that time voice mail was a
    relatively expensive proposition, and a decision was made to not
    install message waiting station cards in the SL100's.  Today, it is a
    swap out of the existing boards for a new message waiting line card. 
    Cost to Digital is around $175 per station.  To put that in
    perspective, we now have 5-10,000 users on voice mail on the SL100's. 
    So the impact to Digital is not insignificant.  People should able to
    train themselves to pick up their phone for stutter dial tone, to see
    if they have messages.  My suggestion would be to put a little note up
    in their office that says "Check voice mail".
    
    -Regarding answering telephones: I agree with a lot of the comments on
    answering the phones.  I have worked in a sales environment for a
    number of years, and ALWAYS pick up a ringing phone.  People will do
    what they feel is convenient for them, I've run into cases where I
    can't get people in our engineering groups (sorry for the
    generalization here) in Merrimack to acknowledge VAXmail messages.
    
    I've probably started the voice mail rathole up again, but if anyone
    wants to understand more about the way our voice mail systems work, or
    need some information, you can contact me offline.
    
    
    Jonathan

    gee.....I guess I'm in the minority! I think voicemail
    is the greatest thing since sliced bread!!
    
    I'm a CAS rep in the field and most of my calls are from
    either salesreps or the buyers of our customers. 85% of
    my order processing is taken from the buyers as verbal
    orders. Before voicemail was installed here, the secy
    would have to take messages. The problem with that is the
    secretary has to take abbreviated messages, sometimes
    is not able to catch all the information, makes an error
    in recording the return call phoen number, etc.
    
    In voicemail, I get the message directly from the caller;
    no missing or erroneous info.  I change my voicemail
    everyday to reflect the schedule of the day. If I am out
    sick, I call in my voicemail and leave the message to
    call my backup. 
    
    I have conducted many a transaction without ever talking to
    another person!  Our customers all have voicemail messaging.
    So they'll leave the message stating they have an issue;
    I call back (getting their voicemail) and leave the solution
    or instructions on their machine.  Business conducted in
    a timely manner; time saved by not having to slowly repeat
    info to secy (when the response is rather lengthy) and
    the assurance to MY customer base that I use voicemail 
    responsibly (thus persuading the customer to use it more,
    rather than "hitting 0".)
    
    If it's used responsibly, voicemail messaging is a powerful tool.
    
    regards,
    
    pat

    Frequent noters know that I tend to over-react.....but this one is my
    ultimate hot-button.  I truly believe that this g-d issue will bring
    us to our corporate knees, and we'll probably never know what happened.
    
    Specifically, every friggin' voice-mail system in the company should be
    ripped out today.  Interfacing with customers can not and must not be
    relegated to some damned technology.
    
    Simply stated, there is no alternative but to bring back secretaries
    in droves, and forget the cost!  The alternative is going out of business.
    I would also make car phones AND portable brief-case cellulars
    mandatory for anyone who deals with customers.
    
    

Naturally, NONE of these aforementioned customers are using voicemail
in THEIR companies, right? ... 

I say the intelligent use of new technology is entirely appropriate.  The goal 
is to advance communication, not block it, and this goal is attainable.

    	re .30
    
    	You're right.  Some noters tend to overreact.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    .....That everyone responded *immediately* to any e-mail
    message.
    
    .....That we used *real* humans for answering phones.
         (A receptionist is a lot more than a switchboard oprator,
          s/he is a representitive (usually the first met/seen/talked
         to) of the company)
    
    .....That we never let a phone ring more than *3* times,
         no matter whose phone it is ringing.
    
    .....To be able to get the person you need on the phone,
         the first time you call, instead of playing e-mail, phone,
         answering machine, voice-mail tag.....
         
    .....Not to hear a groan when you suggest someone else for that
         person to call.

    re .23
    >Interesting...  so far attempting to talk to a product manager about 
    >their product has been "wasting their time" and "arm-waving".  Any 
    >others? 
    
    I am a Product Manager and I talk to people about my products.  Give a
    call, with your order book in hand. BNut leave your sarcasm at home.
    
    
    re .27
    
    >install message waiting station cards in the SL100's.  Today, it is a
    >swap out of the existing boards for a new message waiting line card. 
    >Cost to Digital is around $175 per station.  To put that in
    >perspective, we now have 5-10,000 users on voice mail on the SL100's. 
    >So the impact to Digital is not insignificant.  People should able to
    >train themselves to pick up their phone for stutter dial tone, to see
    >if they have messages.  My suggestion would be to put a little note up
    >in their office that says "Check voice mail".
    
    This is a poor cop out.  The system does not do what the CUSTOMERS
    need. My suggestion is to DO IT RIGHT THE SECOND TIME.  Give the option
    to the Customers and let THEM decide if it is worth $175 per phone. 
    How much do we lose if ONE customer goes away?  Voice-Mail, as we have
    it today, is on a performance par with the VT1000.
    
    Dave

    Not having read all the replies to this note yet, I just wanted to say
    a few things about voice mail.
    
    I work as a secretary in a marketing group, which has probably 90% of
    our people on voice mail.
    
    Voice mail can be very effective in handling incoming calls, if used
    properly; it is especially effective when the volume of incoming calls
    exceeds the capability of "live bodies" to answer all calls as they
    come in.  
    
    The biggest problem we have had with voice mail is misunderstanding how
    it works.  If someone calls Manager XYZ and presses zero to get the
    secretary, and *then* gets the secretary's voicemail, it is because all
    the secretary's phone lines are already engaged and there is no where
    else for the call to go.  It is my understanding, from our Telecom
    group, that it is against company policy for secretaries to have
    voicemail per se, so what the writer in .2 was getting was probably the
    "overflow" into the secretary's backup voice mail (better that, than
    have the call unanswered).
    
    Also, secretaries should "hard forward" their phones when leaving their
    desks, just so that someone exercising the "dial zero" option WILL get
    a live body.
    
    We used to have an operator for our department, specifically to answer
    the overflow calls, but went to voicemail some months back. Try as we
    might, we *still* can't handle all the incoming calls as they come in!

>Personally, if I were a senior manager, I would have you reprimanded for
>sitting on a long distance phone call (Yup, the meter starts running when you
>called the switch), for over twenty minutes. 

That's part of what's wrong with DEC these days.  People trying to do their
jobs get reprimanded when they spend $5.

Unless the call was made from a cellular phone, the _most_ that twenty minutes
could have _possibly_ cost is $5 -- less with any discount arrangement, which
the office surely has.

/johnh

One thing that would help is if the voice mail system could send electronic
mail when messages are waiting.  It wouldn't have to send more than a time
stamp and information like the source (internal phone number, or just from 
an external phone).

This would help eliminate the problem of forgetting to check the voice mail 
and would be especially useful when working from home.

There are lots of ways this could be done, including an e-mail message when 
each voice mail message is recorded (probably not a good idea) to a message
every few hours saying the following new messages have been received and are
still waiting to be heard.

FWIW

John

    
     RE .38
    
    There is a product called PMEMOS, it is an asset pkg to enhance
    ALL-IN-1. I know this doesn't help the folks who don't have ALL-IN-1.
    But at least its a start. Maybe with some creative thinking...
    
    	a user has ALL-IN-1, but prefers VAXmail, auto forward ALL-IN-1
    mail to VAXmail. when someone (secretary) enters a PMEMO, then user
    gets a VAXmail message.  Like I said its a start.
    
    I had voice mail at my old position at DECdirect and it was great, I
    didn't have to get up and deliver messages all over the bldg!  I have
    it herein my new job and its also good, so long as people use it and
    use it right!  It can help alliviate the question of did the person get
    the message.  Our system allows you to put a receipt tag on the phone
    message.  I've had many conversations using voice mail that would
    otherwise have to wait til I found the person and they and I were both
    in the same place at the same time.
    
    	Ann
    

    There has been a *lot* of comment in this topic already about why we do
    or do not answer the telephone.  I won't add fuel to the fire,  but I
    would like to offer the following, fwiw ...
    
    As an account manager for a large customer I interface with at least 20
    people on a regular basis, and a indeterminate number above that on a
    less freqent basis.  By definition, this often means that I'm not here
    when a customer calls.  Most understand this.  Regrettably, one or two
    do not, and take the stance that I'm "never there" etc. etc.  <moderate
    flame>It seems that a number of Digits (this topic and 1371.*) are of
    the same view about Sales.<flame off>
    
    Think lateral.  The suggestion has been repeated a number of times thru
    this conference ...  ring first, and if you don't get to the person you
    want, *then send mail*.  Now, why not extend this to include customers
    as well.  Digital promote, and most of our larger customers now use,
    X.400 and EDI.  My account is about to establish an X.400 connection,
    and I will be encouraging my account contacts to do exactly as above. 
    At least with mail they can be assured of getting the message through
    to me.  And once it's in my Inbox, you can guarantee that it's gonna
    get read ... no more "I didn't know you'd called."
    
    Cheers,
    BigAl

    re: .40
    
    >want, *then send mail*.  Now, why not extend this to include customers
    >as well.  Digital promote, and most of our larger customers now use,
    >X.400 and EDI.  My account is about to establish an X.400 connection,
    
    MONEY!!!  I can't even get folders to organize my file drawers or,
    etc...
    
    Bob

    First of all, I'd say that I agree with 99% of what has been said here.
    
    But....
    
>                     <<< Note 1409.34 by BOOVX1::MANDILE >>>
>    .....That everyone responded *immediately* to any e-mail
>    message.
    
    Pardon? What happens if I'm with a customer/off sick/off site/fixing
    some megabug that is costing the corporation thousands of dollars a
    day (yes they exist, of course they exist)/whatever. 
    
    Give me a break, don't expect the impossible - it just means that folks
    will be even less co-operative next time.
    
>    .....To be able to get the person you need on the phone,
>         the first time you call, instead of playing e-mail, phone,
>         answering machine, voice-mail tag.....
    
    See above....
         
>    .....Not to hear a groan when you suggest someone else for that
>         person to call.

    Amen to that.
    
    
    	- andy

    
    RE -1
    
    I believe that it was only a "wish list" Andy...no-one actually
    expects that sort of thing to happen...
    
    Re .30
    I agree with you. I guess I "overreact" on this subject to the
    same degree that you do.
    'gail
    

>              <<< Note 1409.42 by LESLIE::LESLIE "Andy Leslie" >>>
...    
>>                     <<< Note 1409.34 by BOOVX1::MANDILE >>>
>>    .....That everyone responded *immediately* to any e-mail
>>    message.
>    
>    Pardon? What happens if I'm with a customer/off sick/off site/fixing
>    some megabug that is costing the corporation thousands of dollars a
>    day (yes they exist, of course they exist)/whatever. 
>    
>    Give me a break, don't expect the impossible - it just means that folks
>    will be even less co-operative next time.

I read "respond immediately to an e-mail message" to mean 
AS SOON AS IT WAS READ, not as soon as it was received.
This is not unreasonable, as all that is needed is acknowledgement
of receipt, perhaps with a date or time for follow-up.

- tom]

    ...so we cludge up some kind of linkage to E-Mail.....then what do you
    do with the people who never answer their 3-400 E-Mail backlog?
    
    Amazing that we continue to try to find some technological fix for
    what is essentially a human problem.  Bring back proper secretarial
    staffing and the problem will go away.

    As a rather new Digit, I return all calls promptly.  ;-)
    
    I therefore welcomed voice-mail, and had lobbied for it, because it
    should be more reliable and faster than a secretary.  I still think it
    is.  But this discussion is missing a significant point.
    
    As with any technology, voice-mail can fail.  Perhaps your phone isn't
    set up to forward to the correct number.  This happened to me, and it
    was quite some time before we even recognized the problem, much less
    fixed it.  Actually, it may have been the number that my secretary's
    phone jumped to...whatever.
    
    It's not all that easy to check out the various paths that a call may
    take.  But if people are having trouble reaching you--check it out.
    If you're the caller, give the callee at least some benefit of the
    doubt and raise the question.  At least it conveys the same message,
    without being blantantly hostile (however you may feel).
    
    -gordie

    Even those phones with that light often do not get to use them
    due to the extra costs associated with that EXTRA option.
    
    Like here in AKO !
    
    Lloyd

    
    
    	When I first came to Dec, I was amazed at the poor phone manners
    exhibited by those who were at the first point of contact for anyone
    calling into a Digital facility.  I have listened to main numbers ring
    and ring and ring.  Surly people have answered, openly hostile and
    sometimes so inarticulate I half expected Candid Camera to be
    involved.
    
      On the occasions where I have had to use the phone jungle to get
    something accomplished, I have always been grateful it was not
    something I had to do on a more consistent basis.  And I have felt
    sorry for those who must deal with it daily and been surprised customers
    would put up with it at all.
    
       When I was in the field, I heard customers complain so many times
    about not getting return calls from sales people it became the norm. 
    Many customers complaining about many sales people.  When I questioned
    this, it was explained that salespeople had to work on the large orders
    and couldnt really be bothered by the smaller stuff.  
    
    	The other major problem I have seen, is when tracking a particular
    issue, needing to speak to a particular person and being told they were
    in training/on vacation/etc and no one is handling it in their absense.
    
    	These are real issues which have been going on for a long time and
    I can't help but believe they have had a negative effect on Digital's
    success.  
    
    	Craig
    
    		

	Telephones are a pain in the *** no matter how you look at them.
    They are crude and rude devices, but we'd be in a real mess without them.
    It's a pain to be interrupted by a telephone and it's a pain when you
    can't get ahold of the person you are calling.  If you use a telephone
    you're going to end up angry eventually.  OK.  So what else is new.

	Let's get a few facts correct first.  .6 said that letting a phone
    ring for 20 minutes is a waste of money.  It may or may not be.  Some 
    phone companies charge from the millisecond you hit their switch no mater
    if you connect or not.  Others only charge if you reach an 'attended 
    station'.  Without knowing what phone company was being used, no comment
    should have been made.

	There have been a lot of defensive reactions to the comments on our
    handling of the telephone.  It looks like a good deal of that criticism
    is very well deserved.  The phone mail system itself was not properly 
    designed.  The way it is configured with end-less loops and relays of
    recorders is poor. The way is used with people not leaving messages when
    they can and not responding is just as bad.

	It will cost money and effort to fix this problem.  If it is not fixed
    it will (and does) cost the company a lot more.  (And just because other
    companies have the same problem doesn't mean we can ignore it.)

	Now, I wish I had something contstructive to add to this topic, but
    frankly, I don't, so I'll shut up.

RE: Voice Mail

The major failing of voice mail I see, and this is an admistrative
problem, occurs when you have an urgent problem (need information within
a few days - as opposed to emergency of disaster) and you are calling
someone you are not familiar with.  When you call and get the voice mail
message suppose you need to know 1) Is this person just away from his
desk or is he on a two week vacation 2) Is there someone else who can
help me?  Both of these usually require human intervention.  In such a
situation when you press 0 and get no answer then the system is broken.

On Corpoarate Image

If you live in MA or NH you may find it hard to believe but Digital has
a terrible image problem.  We are the stealth computer company: few
people have heard of us.

What happens to the executive who is running All-For-Nothing, whose
usual system managers have the flu, who system has crashed due to a
brief power outage?  Typically he looks as the computer and sees Digital
Equipment Corporation on the box.  Since he has neer heard of the
company before (You might be surprised at how many people do not know
what Digital is) he looks it us up in the phone book.  He goes through
the Yellow pages and goes past the big IBM ad with the list of numbers
including an 800 number.  Burried among all the ads is Digital with the
number of a field office so this is the number that he calls.  After
getting forwards seven or eight times, and assuming that he never hit
voice mail along the way, he might have reached someone who can tell him
how to boot his VAX.  (If you think this scenario is far-fetched it
happens ALL THE TIME).

Now suppose that this person's problem occurs at 5:05 pm.  He calls the
main number and the phone will ring forever.

    "Why can't we answer the &^%$&* telephones?", you ask. Well, I can't
    because I'm at customer sites, full time, almost all of the time (54 of
    the past 58 months, to be exact). Now, I don't know about you, but, in
    my professional opinion, it is the depth of unprofessionalism to give
    out the customer's phone number as your own (or, worse, as Digital's)
    when you're at their site.
    
    Well, you say, VoiceMail is just *made* for somebody like me, right?.
    Wrong. When I asked for it, not only did I not get it, but the only
    other guy in the unit who had it (from some previous regime) lost it
    (Oops!). In my facility, VoiceMail is standard equipment, not only for
    Sales and Sales Support, but for administrative, facilities, personnel
    and other "overhead" functions, too!. Unfortunately, the marginal cost of
    granting this luxurious perq to those of us responsible for delivering
    multi-million dollar projects (at a profit) is, apparently, unbearable.
    
    No problem. Our unit has a secretary whose responsibilities include
    handling telephone calls for the professionals in her unit, right?
    Sorry. Wrong again. She's far too busy for that sort of thing. I'm
    afraid that we'll just have to make our own arrangements to handle
    phone messages.
    
    Ah, well. No big deal. It's usually just customers calling anyway.
    
    sigh.

RE: .28;  Good words, Pat!  I especially like your last line, but you
were too polite!  I would have said something like:

 " ...used responsibly BY MATURE ADULTS, voicemail messaging
	is a powerful tool."	:>)

RE:  .52  John, from your story about the ALL-IN-1 account, I can make
a couple of assumptions:

	- This country has the most INCOMPETENT bunch of corporate
	  executives in the world if that situation is as "common"
	  as you imply!  That is called "failure to plan"!

	- DEC has failed miserably, from Sales to CS to EIS, in pro-
	  viding these executives with Customer Support Plans that
	  would have included CSC support via the 800#.

	No matter how far fetched or common your senario is, there is
is no excuse for either of these!

	For the record, I started out with our VM system very skepti-
cal, but was quickly converted to a proponent.  Ours here in the At-
lanta area may be one of the best run in the field, IMHO.

	Regarding who has the job of answering phones, does anyone remember
	IBM's motto on sharing sales responsibility?

	Regards, Robert.

	... reply, too, thanks Steve for reminding us!

	I also forgot to add an antedote to reinforce the original
intent of this note - unanswered phones mean lost opportunities.

	I heard on the radio this morning that the guy who taped the
LA Police beating incident originally wanted to show it to CNN, but
when he called their local number, no one answered!  An LA NBC(?)affil-
iate did, and got it.

    I don't get customer calls and I don't get too many calls from
    other offices either. Still it's a problem for me that my phone
    doesn't get answered. Management is looking into voicemail but
    the plant is in the middle of some other phone changes so it's
    not going to happen to soon.

    So I've taken two short term steps.

    First I got a light attached to the phone line that lights when
    a call is coming in. This way if I'm in a meeting in an other office
    or one of the conference rooms I can stand up and see in a minute 
    if it's my phone I hear ringing. Now leaving a meeting in a rush to
    answer a phone is a pain and perhaps even rude but I don't see as
    though I have much choice. In this group it has become accepted
    practice.

    Second, I'm teaching my wife and son how to dial in and log into
    the system to send me mail. Not really but we have talked about it.

    			Alfred

	Luckily, I've got voice mail now myself. I like having it and wouldn't
be without either it, or a satisfactory substitute - an answering machine! If 
you can't get voice mail now - or adequate secraterial coverage (does anybody
outside of the top brass now?), I would ask for an answering machine. If you are
refused, then you need to answer a question to yourself. Is an answering machine
enough of a benefit to my peace of mind and general sanity that I would buy one
and bring it in? If the answer is yes (and it was yes to me too prior to getting
voice mail), then go look for a reasonably capable one for your line. It should
be capable of being retreived and reprogramed over the telephone. 

	Of course, this solution, like most of the others, takes a bit of 
personal disipline to actually use it! This is the biggest failure here in DEC. 
Failure to use the system that is available in its most advantageous manner.

	Now I'm not saying that everyone should go out and buy a personal 
answering machine, but if you cannot get the company to support your needs
(not desires - NEEDS) then it behooves you to ask yourself the question above
and see if it isn't the right thing to do for your own well being.

	/s/	Bob

    I agree that voicemail, properly and systematically used, is a slick
    little technology.  But when I call ANY business as a customer, I
    demand to talk to a real person.  Anytime I run into Voicemail in
    a commerical environment, I instantly hang up, and always will.
    
    I just don't see how we can be any different.  We've gotta bring back
    adequate secretarial support.

    re:  .60
    
    It's funny, but when I need to contact a business for
    non-work stuff (pest control, plumber, etc) and I get an
    answering machine, I tend to hang up, too.
    
    However, in my posistion at work, I deal with external customer
    buyers, external customer end-users and many internal groups.
    ALL of the people I deal with use voicemail messaging!
    It's not just DEC, it's everywhere! It seems to me that if 
    that's where the technology is going, one must go with the 
    flow and learn to use the technology to it's fullest.
    
    But again, it seems I have a double-standard when it comes to
    work business and non-work business and I can't explain it!
    
    Re:   .60's ref to sec'y support.....do you know any folks willing
    to transfer (w/o relo) to AZ to support our groups? Even with PNO
    closing, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to get any applicants for sec'y.
    "bring back secretarial support" isn't the problem, it's the
    number of people declining offers for these types of positions.
    
    pat

re .49 (Lloyd Ostiguy)

>    Even those phones with that light often do not get to use them
>    due to the extra costs associated with that EXTRA option.

I don't think we have installed phones in AKO with a message waiting light.
To the best of my knowledge, AKO has Northern Telecom Link sets (QSFE2500LAIX).
These sets do not have a message waiting light.  The neon bulb under the Link
button is wired across the line and is activated by ringing voltage.

As has been pointed out before, providing message waiting lights would have
cost $165 per station, or on the order of five million dollars for the Greater
Maynard area (I'm assuming only 30,000 voicemail users out of about 50,000
telephone numbers).

re .51 (VMSNET::WOODBURY)

>	Let's get a few facts correct first.  .6 said that letting a phone
>    ring for 20 minutes is a waste of money.  It may or may not be.  Some 
>    phone companies charge from the millisecond you hit their switch no mater
>    if you connect or not.  Others only charge if you reach an 'attended 
>    station'.  Without knowing what phone company was being used, no comment
>    should have been made.

Yes, let's get facts correct.  .6 said that he had reached an attended
station and had been transferred around a few times.  Call charging always
begins, regardless of the phone company, at the point you reach the first
"thing" which YOU can talk to (by voice or by signalling).  When the attendant
answered, call charging began.

However, I pointed out that the amount of money wasted was minimal, since
the MAXIMUM cost of a coast-to-coast phone call in the U.S. lower 48 is
$5 for twenty minutes, without any discount arrangement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Voice mail can be annoying.  Today, the MAIN number for PacTel Corporation's
headquarters in San Francisco answered with Voicemail!  I was trying to find
out the correct spelling of someone's name, and whether that person wished
to be addressed as Miss/Mrs/Ms.  Talking to a secretary was appropriate;
talking to voicemail was NOT!

/john

re: .61

>    Re:   .60's ref to sec'y support.....do you know any folks willing
>    to transfer (w/o relo) to AZ to support our groups? Even with PNO
>    closing, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to get any applicants for sec'y.
>    "bring back secretarial support" isn't the problem, it's the
>    number of people declining offers for these types of positions.
    
Could have something to do with the fact that we (not just Digital, but
the business world in general) under-pay them.  A good secretary is a
thing to be treasured (I've had bad ones to make me realize that :-),
but they get paid like peons.  My personal theory is that it's because
the secretarial jobs were traditionally held by women (who have been
traditionally underpaid).

-Hal Laurent

    Voicemail is the pits. Period. I sit at a customer site all day.
    All I hear from them is that when they call Digital they get someones
    voicemail. Why not take it full circle and start having some "great"
    technology leap in voicemail that could start dialing the customers
    back. Sort of like the old computer sales pitch. We could definitley
    use the additional revenue. I can see it now "gee, see voicemail is
    great, out of 1 thousand customer call I made one sale".
    
     People want to talk to people NOT machines. Otherwise it would be
    called machinemail. BARF.
    
    -Get me a person.
    Mike Z.

    At the expense of starting a rat-hole, .61 and .63, I very strongly
    agree that secretaries are grossly underpaid.  I speak from experience
    as a manager who hired many in the past 19 years.
    
    The range for Admin Sec should be roughly 12-18 bucks an hour, and
    there is no reason on God's green earth that an experienced senior
    secretary should be making 50K after 10-15 years on the job.
    
    Some of the most valuable (and underpaid) employees I've ever had
    were secretaries.
    
    

And there is no reason why SOftware Engineerins or specialists or FSE's etc,
shouldn't be earning $100,000/yr+, were it not but for the ... WHoops. about
to flame at the Veeps, mustn't do that...

q

>    <<< Note 1409.66 by BUNYIP::QUODLING "Who's the nut in the bag,dad?" >>>
>
>And there is no reason why SOftware Engineerins or specialists or FSE's etc,
>shouldn't be earning $100,000/yr+, were it not but for the ... WHoops. about
>to flame at the Veeps, mustn't do that...
>
>q

Seems to me you are insinuating that secretaries are worth 1/2 a SE/FSE/SPec?

I would argue that if a strategically placed secretary can make a group of the
above type (say x of them at y $/hr) z% more productive, then a good secretary
may indeed be worth *more* than one of the above...  If somebody has good
numbers for x,y, and z, perhaps we can do the math...

/mlm

example... 10 engineers at 25$/hr = 250$/hr.  Secretary saves each of them
1 hour each day that they would have to do something besides engineering.
Seems to me a good secretary could effect $1250 of productivity each week.
Seems to me you could pay $800/wk and still be saving money under these numbers.

If you are looking for a secretary, consider posting a request in

BUGSEY::DEC_SECRETARY   

...it's back on the air after a temporary hiatus.

(There are also some excellent discussions in there by secretaries themselves
about what they consider rewarding working conditions to be.)

Press KP7/Select...

re.         <<< Note 1409.67 by HERCUL::MOSER "Eastern Discrete DCC..." >>>
                   -< how about an analytic look at this... >-

>Seems to me you are insinuating that secretaries are worth 1/2 a SE/FSE/SPec?

Not at all, I was arguing that if this corporation were run more efficiently
we could all be better paid. As to whether the final salaries of Engineers and
Secretaries should be equal, I made no direct comment. I would however note,
that in 15 years in the work force, I have met no more than a dozen
exceptionally good secretaries, that would be worth maying significantly more
for. However, having lived in Semi Socialist environments where experience,
qualifications, risk etc don't carry appropriate relevance to final income, I
may err on the side of conservatism.

>I would argue that if a strategically placed secretary can make a group of the
>above type (say x of them at y $/hr) z% more productive, then a good secretary
>may indeed be worth *more* than one of the above...  If somebody has good
>numbers for x,y, and z, perhaps we can do the math...

And, for that matter, a few high school kids to run gofer errands to pick up
listings fom the lab, etc, would increase productivity too. 

We need to find an economic ROI for extra labor expense.

	q

                                    

    VoiceMail - I would like to echo the positive comments about VoiceMail. 
    It is an excellent and helpful tool when used properly.  To have
    VoiceMail on all the time, or use it to allow you to work without being
    interrupted, does not necessarily constitute proper use. 
    
    PacTel answering the phone with "voicemail," - may have actually been
    an automated attendant service.  This is another cost cutting device
    which many companies are using:  For example, call a bank and you hear,
    "For Checking and NOW Account Service, Press 1 Now.  For Loan Rates and
    Information, Press Two..."  (etc.), with a final option to wait for an
    attendant.  That's okay, but most people aren't comfortable with it
    when they call a service organization.  [Several months ago I was
    SHOCKED when I got an automated attendant one evening when calling
    Framingham Union Hospital!  It took 3 calls back to finally get to a
    human being.] 
    
    Phone manners - I agree with the comments that many people in this
    corporation could stand to improve their telephone etiquette-- at all
    levels.  Perhaps a small section on "Standard Telephone Courtesy" could
    become a standard handout for new-hires?  I know it was a course being
    offered for newly hired secretaries some time ago.  It should be a
    required course in my opinion.  It certainly cannot hurt. 
    
    Secretaries - Numbers and Sense - IHMO, the reason[s] why there aren't
    enough secretaries in the corporation include the fact the profession
    is not given the recognition that it deserves.  Secretaries are not
    properly compensated for the work that they do because they are not
    VALUED enough. (See BUGSEY::DEC_SECRETARY Note 15.)  SECRETARIAL HIRING
    PRACTICES at DEC is another factor that should be re-evaluated.  (See
    BUGSEY::DEC_SECRETARY, NOTE 287.) 
    
    A few notes back someone indicated that he/she had only met a small
    number of good, qualified secretaries in the past.  Why were all those
    other individuals (the UNqualified individuals) hired as secretaries,
    then?  Does the fact that unqualified individuals were in secretarial
    positions contribute to the fact that the profession as a whole is not
    perceived as "valuable?"  
    
    Rather than take this very interesting conversation around VoiceMail,
    telephone etiquette, etc., down any more of a rathole, I'll end with
    saying that until this company, and others, truly take another look at
    the secretarial profession, hiring practices, and compensation
    programs, the lack of good secretaries will continue to be a problem.
    
    Rgds,
    mml
    [Executive Secretary]
    

    
    DEC needs to sell equipment.
    People buy from people, not machines.
    VM, answering machines, whatever - none of them is a warm body.
    And only warm bodies actively sell.
    
    The phones need to be answered promptly and professionally by real
    people. OK, so this has traditionally been a secretarial role, and
    good secretaries are hard to find (and have other things to do
    apart from answer the phones...)
    
    So - why not have another group to answer phones?
    A highly trained, professional group that sit together in each
    facility as a "messaging centre" - trained with telesales skills?
    Answering phones and relaying messages would be their only
    responsibility.
    
    True, they cannot do anything to influence the fact that some people
    don't return messages, don't read their mail etc etc, but at least
    they would give the customers a decent first contact (or whatever
    number contact) with our company, and that's half the battle.....
    
    'gail

    re: .71                         
    
    Well, that reply really calls my activate_proc...
    
    What's misunderstood by those who toil not in the competitive trenches
    is the nature of most customer/DEC communication:
    
    It's not social.  It's not persuasive selling.
    
    It's data processing. It's is tracking "status": proposals, quotes,
    orders, missing cables, missing software, discounts, etc.
    
    For crying out loud, I'm here in New York selling "customer contact"
    systems that have:
    
    (1) highly skilled and trained relationship managers, backed up by a
    excellent information system with product and customer data
    
    (2) voice telephone systems backed up by sufficient telemarketing
    people with an excellent information with product and customer
    data
    
    (3) a touch-tone system for routine inquiries
    
    (4) a PC-based, secure version of the system used in (1) and (2) for
    customers to access that integrates mail to the relationship manager
    and FAX.
    
    (5) Video tapes, pamphlets, seminars, etc. that perform the persuasive
    selling.
    
    ELIMINATE MANY OF THE "request for data" PHONE CALLS and customer
    satisfaction will improve and sales reps time will be freed for
    customer contact that has higher valued added.
    
    Now, I am among the most un-Pollyana-ish in Digital, and know a zillion
    reasons why this will work at a brokerage but not at Digital, the irony
    of us selling this conceptually while we continue practices that
    should have been scrapped 20 years ago is too much.

    What would happen if DEC appreciated the SECRETARIES a lot more and
    treated them like valuable people, that want to work in group as
    secretaries. Maybe there would be proper phone coverage.
    Get rid of some managers, and pay for some good secretaries. Please do
    not make them responsible for 30-50 people. Or maybe you should put the
    famous managers into these positions.!
    I am not a secretary, but I have battled for them, without success.
    
    Ruth

    Note .72 looks to me to have pretty important and credible points that
    should not be ignored.  I have the impression that if sales folks had
    better support behind them it would be easier for them to focus on
    sales and new prospects.  As it looks, they spend their time pushing
    paperwork that should be streamlined and automated.  
    
    I think the idea of having folks answer the phones that handle first
    contacts well is good.  But, folks that call want to talk to informed
    sales people that are well supported.  They don't want to talk to
    someone or some machine that cannot guarantee that things will be done.
    That first contact needs to be an informed and supported sales person.
    
    Steve

Dear ??????? (The person who called me yesterday),

I was out of town when you called but I got your message.  I returned
your call but no one answered.  I heard the click on the line when the
call got transfered but I waited three minutes and got no answer.  So
when you don't hear back from me it's not because I did not try.  I have
too many calls to return to keep calling you until someone answers.

John

    	re .75
    
    	Was this person a DECcie?  If so, look them up in elf and
    	send them mail.  If not, there's not much else you can do.

Once again....

To the person who called me this morning.  I have not forgotten
to return your call.  When I dial your numer I get that damn
voice mail crap.  It asks me to dial the last four digits of your
phone number.  When I do that the voice mail replies "Sorry but
nnnn is not a valid number".  I tried dialing zero but I am stuck
in an endless boicemail loop.  I've checked ELF end the number
my secretary is correct.  I wonder what happens when you customers 
call.

John

-.1

    >   ...  I tried dialing zero but I am stuck in an endless 
    >	     boicemail loop.  

 Sorry, but the term "boicemail" is trademarked.  It all originates with me 
 in this company... 

    Funny this note should be resurrected at such an opportune time ...

    I'm so tired of getting voice mail that I could scream!  I've started
    keeping count of my experiences.

    I'm in sales ... yesterday I had the occasion to call 12 people (field
    service, sales, customer finance, sales support, networking group,
    educational services ... etc...).  Voice mail answered 10 of 12 calls.
    I received a timely response on 1 of those 10.
    
    More than once I responded to "if you wish to talk to my secretary,
    press zero" ... what do I get? ... the secretary's voice mail (or
    answering machine - can't press zero and escape from that).

    I called 6 different customers. I did not get voice mail one single
    time.

    Jerry

    Jerry, when our group was offered voice mail, I declined.  One of the
    reasons I declined was because the voice mail system being offered
    would NOT automatically tell me if I had a call while I was gone.  I
    would have to pick up the phone and dial a number to  see if I had any
    calls.
    
    Fortunately, we seem to have sufficient admin support to answer our
    phones when we are away from our desks.  Other groups do not.  I know
    of two groups who share an admin person.  If that person has to step
    away from their desk to do something like send a fax, make copies, etc.
    the phones get forwarded to the other side of the building.  If the
    admin person is out sick, they can only be replaced by a temp if they
    will be out for a week or more and it requires a VP signature for
    approval.  Until the company gets their act together and provides
    adequate admin support, these folks NEED voicemail.  Unfortunately, one
    of the side-effects will be what you encountered.
    
    Bob

    This issue was on a news article recently, one of the morning shows as
    I recall (could be wrong).  Anyway, they highlighted one financial
    company that threw out almost all of its voice mail.  Seems that the
    president of the company tried to phone one of his higher ups and 
    wound up in "voicejail".  Shot out a memo to rip out all the voice
    mail.  They left it in only in one section of the company that never
    speaks to customers.  Of course, if you want to discourage customers
    from calling ...
    
    Another company is playing with the idea of allowing callers to
    immediately choose between using voice mail and speaking to a live
    person.  And, there is development being done in speech recognition to
    make voice mail systems sensitive to the voice of the caller.
    
    Steve

    The world is going around to fast for this 57-year-oldie and I suspect
    that is at the root of some of the dissatisfaction being expressed
    about these infernal devices.

    I am one person. If I am not there, I am not there.  Period!  Tough on
    me and tough on whomever else is involved, both those on my side of the
    phone and on the other side. 

    I have had voice mail and answering machines forced on me several
    times.  I hate them.

    Given the choice, there is only one way I would consider either.  It
    would be if I had a secretary who knew me, my business, etc, who would
    screen the recordings and prioritize them for me -- and probably be
    able to handle a bunch of them her/him-self.  But THAT WOULD BE
    INFLICTING THE CURSE ON SOMEONE ELSE, wouldn't it? 

    Psychologically, are these things playing on the human ego?:  I am so
    important that I must multiply myself to my true ability or something
    like that.  Also, is not the use of these things an imposition on the
    caller?  He/she is hurt by my not calling back -- within HIS/HER own
    timeframe/patience.

    I doubly resent the answering machines with speakers that let one
    filter on the basis of a voice. When I get connected to one of those
    someone is listening in on me and I do not know it.  Just a little bit
    of invasion of privacy? And I am offended by the pregnant pause that
    means the callee thinks I "might" not be important enough to talk to. 

    In a business setting the phone belongs to the business, as I do.  I am
    therefore expected to answer it and I do.  I do not mind a written
    call-back memo because that mechanism is an impersonal filter which
    means the caller is serious enough to take the time time to dictate at
    least a few words.

    For my personal home phone, it belongs to me: for my benefit.  I can,
    and sometimes do not answer it, simply because I choose not to. 
    Course, the rest of the family can't stand me doing it. The arguments
    go: what if it IS IMPORTANT?  My answer to that is if it truly is so,
    the other party will keep calling -- that is my signal that something
    needs attention. 

    Been wondering if/why I am such a wierdo?  Maybe because in my first
    ten years or so we did not have a telephone in my family -- old
    fashioned, old-country farm folks.  Doubt there are many of us types
    left.  Good riddance?  SERP? No, thanks, ALPHA is going to be too
    interesting and exciting!  But, even they cannot talk to me unless I am
    there.					:-)

    Enough already, Fred
    

        Enough of high-tech phones!  I  am  tired  of  calling someone,
        getting  voicemail,  hitting  "0",  getting  voicemail, leaving
        message, getting no response.  Damn, to do  my job, I _need_ to
        get information - quit putting obstacles in my way,  especially
        obstacles which prevent me from talking to the person I need to
        talk to!
        
        Get rid  of  voicemail  -  it's  counterproductive  within  the
        company - gawd help our customers.
        
        Andy
        

    While I admit I'm not at all fond of voicemail, I sometimes wonder if
    we blame the technology for the lack of common courtesy of those who
    employ it. We also encourage people in Digital to attend meeting after
    meeting so they are less and less at their desks.
    
    Just musing...
    
    
    Terry
    

    Many of the problems with VoiceMail are management (or lack thereof)
    problems.  It is frustrating for ANYONE to hit `0' and get yet another
    VoiceMail.  The solution is obvious, the implimentation requires
    proactive management.  Assuming you have more than 1 secretary, remove
    VoiceMail from the secretarys' phones and require that they cover for
    each other during absenses.  If you only have 1 secretary, get another
    person designated for backup telephone coverage.
    
    It all comes down to what is most important.  If it is important to
    have VoiceMail, get it installed.  If it is important to have 100%
    VoiceMail backup, get people designated as backup and remove VoiceMail
    from their telephones.

re.80:

Why should an admin person have to take calls? In the UK it is quite common for
groups to have 'group pick-up' and _everyone_ listens out for the phones.

/Dave.

re: .86

Well, in sales groups, at any given moment, no one or everyone could be there.
Should sales rep A put his customer on hold while he answers the phone for
reps B and C?  I think not.  That's one of the many jobs of an admin person.

In my group, we have group-pickup.  Should I put my hotline call on hold to
answer my co-workers' phone?  I think not.

Bob

    In the Marlboro cluster (at least in MRO1, where I work), secretaries
    are not allowed to have voice mail.  They do have an answering machine
    but it's only really used before and after normal working hours.
    
    I like voicemail.  I always return my phone calls.  It's a good way to
    hide if you want to hide, though.
    
    John

    
    
    Just this morning on NPR they had a report about voicemail.  It
    seems after its introduction about five years ago a number of
    large companies jumped on the bandwagon but have since given it
    up.  It seems that it caused them to lose lots of business among
    customers who simply would not stand for doing business with a
    vendor who would not have real, live people answering the phone.
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
    

.84 hits on the problem.  The problem of leaving a voicemail message and
not getting called back has nothing to do with voicemail.  These same
people can ignore a message taken by a secretary just as easily.

Personally, I love voicemail.  It is easy to change my message so that callers'
expectations about when I will call back can be properly set. (e.g., "I am  
out of the office on business until Friday, but I will be checking once a day
for messages.  If you need immediate assistance, call ..." or "I am
in today, but cannot take your call at this time.  Please leave a message
and I will return your call ASAP")  Our system has a flashing light on our
phones so every time you hang up or or return to your desk you can see 
immediately if you have gotten a call.  If I am out of the office, I make 
sure I check my voicemail regularly.

Since I sit in Cincinnati, my manager is in Rochester NY, the group
secretary is in Detroit, and my coworkers are all in Detroit or St. Louis, 
I need to take care of my calls myself.  There is a secretary here in 
Cincinnati, who out of the goodness of her heart, will take my "Press 0" 
calls, so I try to keep her up-to-date about my whereabouts.  But since 
she is in a totally different organization, she knows nothing about my 
business, all she can do is say, "Frank is at ...... , the fastest way 
to get a hold of him is to leave him a voicemail."  

Our local phone company is about to introduce residential voicemail....I can't
wait.

Frank

We just had voicemail implemented in our department.  According to what we were
told, you are required by Corporate Telecomm to have a valid 0 out option, ie.
when someone presses 0, they must be able to speak with a person.  If a valid 0
out option is not provided, then the voicemail is removed.  

Cheers,

JK
 
              --==++    "CARPE DIEM - Sieze the Day!!"    ++==--                

    Voicemail is like any tool, if it is properly used it helps, if it is
    improperly used it does damage. Sadly my experiences of Voicemail cause
    me to automatically hang up, as this is more beneficial to my blood
    pressure.

    I have no objection to talking to answering machines which field calls
    out of office hours, or on private lines. But I object to being shunted
    from pillar to post by a machine.

    So if I am a potential customer and I hit Voicemail, you have just lost
    my business, and having asked around, I do not appear to be alone on
    this point.

    Jamie.

I'll speak in favor of voicemail for two business reasons:

First, I have virtually no admin support.  My "secretary" is really a projects
person who handles the minimal administrivia for me such as expenses.  The
other "group secretary" doesn't have time to take messages or even pick up the
mail - she has too many other people to do work for.  Our "Dial 0" option rings
the phones in the group.

Secondly, our voicemail system, Aspen, allows the leaving of "extended absence
greetings," letting people know how to get important messages to me if I'm out
of the office.  People may get tired of hearing my long-winded extabs messages,
but they know where they stand with me.

Personally, my wife makes extensive use of the "home" mailbox that Aspen
provides.  This is really useful when I'm on the road and we have different
timezones competing.

I also respond to messages left on the system.

With better admin support, I could live without voicemail.  As it stands, it
makes *my* quality of work-life better.

Unfortunately, it lets business management problems elsewhere, such as not
returning calls, fester.

BobW

In my current and 2 previous jobs (all at Digital in different locations) 
I have had the opportunity to use voicemail by 3 different companies.I like
the idea of having a facility where someone can leave me a message whether 
I'm there or not. However, when some of these systems were installed training
was offered. I was unable to attend the training. The instructions that were
given out were poorly written. Some of them didn't work. Some of them were wrong.
Some were a manual with a quick reference card and looked very professional.
Some of them had a '0' option, but you couldn't control it, the system
manager controlled whether '0' worked for you or not. Also you don't know who
'0' is (your secretary, who may not always be there, your receptionist who knows
you work in the building but not where to reach you in case of emergencies, etc.
There's also the garbbled messages that you can't return. The empty messages from
people "who don't talk to anything on the phone that isn't human", the heavy
breathers, the soliciting calls, etc.

On the other hand, I have called companies that have "message centers". '0' on
the voicemail tranfers to a message center. The message center has a permanent
human, who will email the message to you and will also try to find out how to
reach you in case of emergencies (like the manager whose house burned down 
while he was off-site). Trying to find your body included reaching the person 
who physically sat in the cube next to you, or reaching your manager, etc. The 
message center maynot be in the same building or same location. 

I also think we should have phones which a little light that will blink when
you have messages rather than leave your office to use the facilities come 
back and pick up your phone to see if someone called while you were away.

Re:  <<< Note 1409.81 by INDUCE::SHERMAN "ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326" >>>

>							Seems that the
>    president of the company tried to phone one of his higher ups

I was just curious as to who the president's "higher ups" would be...  :-)

-  David

    I think that eventually VoiceMail will serve as a sort of litmus test
    to tell you what kind of outfit you're dealing with.  It will be used
    by companies/institutions where it is difficult, impossible, or very
    inconveneient for you, as a consumer, to change vendors.  If you are
    dealing with an institution where you have some choice in your
    selection, you probably won't see it.
    
    Institutions of the first sort will be things like utitlities,
    government bureaucracies, your HMO, and all sorts of other institutions
    where customer satisfaction is not of paramount concern.  It will
    always bejustified in terms of efficiency and cost-effectiveness.
    
    Organizations of the second sort will be mail-order retailers, real
    estate agents, and salesmen of all types.  I, and many other people I
    would imagine, will hang up if I'm trying to buy something and I get a
    machine.
    
    I suspect you won't get VoiceMail if you call an insurance company to
    get a quote on a policy; I bet you will get it if you call the same
    company trying to straighten out a billing error.
    
    From this, I suspect that it will continue to proliferate internally at
    DEC.  I hope that outside customers never DEC call looking for help and end
    up talking to VoiceMail.
    
    Larry

    It doesnt matter what you think of it,
    what matters is what customers think of it.
    
    John

    RE: 81, 95
    
    Said financial institution was probably First Union National Bank, hdqt
    here in Charlotte, NC.  The president was trying to reach one of his
    VP's (a direct report).
    
    The ban is company-wide for anyone who has direct customer contact. 
    Seems that the only department that is now allow to use voice mail is
    one that has NO customer contact at all.
    
    BTW, same bank has a voice based application where a customer can call
    in using a touch tone phone and query their account balance, etc. This
    application seems to be working fairly well, after lots of initial bugs
    were worked out.  Does seem a bit verbose after awhile though.
    
    Jack Bouknight

re: .98
    
>    The ban is company-wide for anyone who has direct customer contact. 
>    Seems that the only department that is now allow to use voice mail is
>    one that has NO customer contact at all.
    
I'd suppose that with the concept that brakes down the "big" DIGITAL into
    "small" enterprises (xyU's,Account teams,Service centers...)there'll
    be not many folks left without direct customer contact (where
    "customer" means both internal and external) which after all 
    maybe not that bad !
    
    /fred
     

    good morning,
    
    why dont we have peepers? company i worked with befor, after i got
    very good at programming , manager gave me a peeper, he said to kepp on
    all the time, and i had it on me all the time, when someone call me, 
    and iam away from the cube, the peeper makes a sound, and i see what
    number it is and call it back. important customers i called right away 
    back. and i was not like in customer support, i was just a normal 
    programmer. i have never seen a programmer here in DEC walk with a 
    pepper on them.
    
    do you think a peeper is better system than voicemail?
    
    thank you very much
    /naser
    

    Ever been standing in the toilet at the urinal with a briefcase in one
    hand when your bleeper goes off? Trying to cancel it can be a problem.

    I would advise against saying, "Oh it's only my peeper."

    Jamie.

    
    detailes, detailes.
    
    we got to support customers whatever it takes. a brief case in hand
    is not an execuess. soory
    
    buy,
    /nasser

	Beepers (peepers) cost us about $20-30/mo here in NC.  We keep em
	on our SysMgrs for access.  Works great when they answer.  You would
	think that any one with a decent (subjective judgment by management)
	load of support activities (even consultants in a technical environ-
	ment) could use one to advantage.

	But hey,  just like everything else, beepers are understandable by
	the bean counters ... and the ones we had on less essential but
	highly useful personnel got canned in the big COST CUTTING FRENZY
	last year.

	Jack Bouknight

re .97

� It doesnt matter what you think of it, what matters is what customers think
� of it.

You are right.

If I was one of my customers, I think I would like it.  I could leave me a
detailed message that wouldn't be garbled by the person who answered the phone. 
I would hear back from me sooner because I could start working on an answer
even without having to get back to me on the phone.

I'm in sales support.  Voice mail has improved my response to customers
significantly.

Paul

If it wasn't for voicemail (Aspen at our site), trying to reach me would be
most difficult.  My customers know that 95% of the time I am NOT at my desk -- 
if I am really doing my job, I am likely to be in a classroom or at a customer
site in their classroom.  But they can leave me a specific question or message
and a date and time stamp is automatic.  And we can rest assured that the
message was taken and can be picked up across time zones, 7x24.  365 days a year.

Frankly, it is the best use of our secretary's time (shared by 4-5 managers and
umpty-ump instructor-types) to handle only the 0-forward calls, and pick up the
lines of our managers.  

Of course the fact that I monitor the incoming messages several times a day
when I am in town, and at least 2x daily when on the road, means it works for me,
and I never have to decipher handwriting.  Of course once a month or so, the
voicemail system seems to drop a bit, right in the middle of a phone number so
that I have only 6 digits!!   

Just like the drier -- feed it a sock once in awhile and all is well...

RE: .104 -< Why wouldn't customers like voice mail? >-

>I'm in sales support.  Voice mail has improved my response to customers
>significantly.

I am also in Sales Support, and I also like voice mail.  

My primary customer has voice mail, as do I.  I got called for a presentation,
answered the call with questions for details, got my answers, setup the time
and equipment for the presentation, agreed to everything, and only talked 
directly to the person on the day of the presentation!  Without voice-mail
(say for example, with a secretary who is excellent but who does not understand 
the technical issues being presented) this would have been impossible.

-- Ken Moreau

>    It doesnt matter what you think of it,
>    what matters is what customers think of it.

	And, as a customer of many people who have voicemail, I like it.

	It is *much* easier and faster to leave a detailed message on 
voicemail than with a live person who is unfamiliar with the content of 
the message.  	In fact now, if I can't leave a voicemail with someone
I will send electronic mail rather than dictate to a person who has
to have words spelled out or has to stop me in the middle to answer another
call.

Frank

    A story from Finland,
    
    we have been hit by the worst recession sine WWII, and thus economy is
    ~stalled -> investing is about 0 -> revenue is going down -> expenses
    are being cut (I bet this is similaro to lot of countries)
    
    So, the group I work for doesn't have a secretary, nor does the next
    group nor ... and the phones were ringing, and nobody answered,
    customers got upset ... something had to be done
    
    DEC made a deal, with the local Telephone Company, that they provide
    Digital as a service full telephone answering service - and it works
    like a charm [in my opinion]. And it seems that it is cheaper overall,
    than having secretaries answering phones (surprisingly!)
    
    Advantages:
    - it's an outside service provider, they are professionals, they are
      never sick, never on a vacation, ...
    - as an outside service provider, they can be hard enough that even the
      laziest people (like me) and people who usually forget to tell where
      they are (like me) learn, since they have the guts to call you the
      next day and say "Hey, You forgot to tell us where you were!"
    - I have options on how to receive messages:
        + they call me and give them personally (my favourite)
        + they send me ALL-IN-1 mail (YES! they are part of our internal 
          mailing system, complete with terminals, usernames...)
        + they page me to my beeper, when it's really urgent
        + I can have alternative rules, like "If my wife calls, I'm at
          extension 1234" since my wife usually wants to talk to me          
          instantly when she calls, since we see (almost) every day at home :-)
    - they learn most people's personal habits, like I'm never at office
      before 9am, although 99% of finns work from 8am to 4pm
    - they ask me if my kids are OK, after I was home on absence when my
      kids were sick
    - ...
    
    They also manage our telephone switchboard ... and we've been generally
    happy with the set up - it leaves us (DEC) more time to do our business,
    to sell computers, solutions and services and to concentrate on it, not
    on how to operate telephones with group pick-up's, follow-me's ...
    
    	- tomi
    

    re .108
    I really like that....
    
    What I don't like is the "natural" conclusion:
    
    "An outside service provider can do this and that....."
    
    Gee, I can understand that cleaning offices and toilets is not
    what DEC may consider of beeing core business, but having to
    subcontract the human interface to the customer base of
    core business which is supposed to be/become services,
    just doesn't sound right.
    It maybe an indicator of what's wrong with DEC these days.
    
    I'd hope that your phone company will never become your competitor!
    Which incidently reminds me of the story of the guy (STROWGER ?)
    who invented the telephone "strowger switch":
    
    (hit next/unseen if you know it:)
    
    Mr. Strowger used to be an undertaker in a small (?) US town,
    by the time when phone calls where manually switched by a lady 
    in the central office.
    In that town the "switching" lady was his competitors (second
    undertaker's) wife.
    Guess waht happened everytime somebody called her up to
    "get connected to the undertaker" ?!
    This is what Mr. Strowger motivated to invent a means 
    of "neutral" and by the way automatic switching of phone calls.
    /fred
    

    Re, my .82:
    
    (1) When I call a friend who I know has one of those
    "listen-to-and-answer-if-you-feel-like-it" machines I sort of say "come
    on, answer" and maybe add a few "expletives delete"s.  I do not like
    being tempted to do that to many people -- especially friends. At least
    with a regular phone I know they are really not there or really just do
    not want to answer -- and not just me.

    (2) When someone calls me and leaves a recorded "problem" message, I
    feel that somehow transfers some of the responsibility of that problem
    to me.  If that comes right out of the blue (never heard of it before
    and maybe have no responsibility in it); and I have nowhere to go with
    it, was it fair (whatever fair means anyway)?  Now I am on the spot and
    maybe have to worry about it for a while first.  I'd rather hear the
    other person tell me about it live and start from there.  Somehow it
    feels like heaping my plate with problems that I have no control over.
    
    Way out of sync with the modern world I guess - Fred
    

    RE: .109
    
>    Gee, I can understand that cleaning offices and toilets is not
>    what DEC may consider of beeing core business, but having to
>    subcontract the human interface to the customer base of
>    core business which is supposed to be/become services,
>    just doesn't sound right.
>    It maybe an indicator of what's wrong with DEC these days.
    
    I totally agree, that we should be providing the services ourselves,
    but if the only alternatives are:
    - no services (by ourselves because of lack of resources as determined
      by management as not necessary)
    - professional services (by outsiders)
    then I definitely go with the second alternative.
    
    Luckily, they are not (at least yet) our competitor, but rather an
    ally. Things may change in future, however...
    
    	- tomi
    
    PS. No, I hadn't heard of the "Strowger switch" before - thanx.

    re: .111
    Glad you didn't take my reply as any critique against DEC in Finland !
    Cheers,
    Fred
    

    I would like to remind those of you happy voicemail users who need
    to work internationally to remember that we have only a couple of
    common working hours per day between e.g. Europe and US.
    
    Recently 3 times out of 4 I have got a voicemail answer to my calls
    to US. I use phone for two reasons:
    	-either to get a quick answer to an urgent question or
    	-clarify something, which had not been understood from the written
    	 mail.
    Extensive voicemail usage has effectively taken away this possibility.
    I have not received many answers during the same working day and the
    next day (afternoon our time) is not always good enough.
    
    --Ritva
    

    
    
    I have voicemail in Maynard.  However I'm on a 6 month assignment in
    Ireland.  Here the phones don't have letters on the buttons so the
    "password"  has to be converted to numbers.  So then they get around
    to installing a phone in the office I'm using here.  They give me a 
    rotary dial..
    
    Gary

Push-buttons might not help, anyway -- what you need is "touch-tone" (and
using the same tones as the USA, I suppose, if those tones aren't
standardised) which is not the same thing as "push-buttons".

Last time I looked, most push-button phones in the UK used pulse
dialling.   I don't know about Ireland.

Of course, that observation applies to the public phone system.
Within DEC, the phones might be different.

    Touch-tone (or the less trademarked DTMF) frequencies are standardized
    around much of the world.  You will have a hard time finding
    letters on a many European (or Japanese) telephones, though!

	Why does everyone assume that people calling have touch tone, or
	button pressing.

	people whoi forget there are still a lot of dial phones around loose 
	my business.

	Heather

>	Why does everyone assume that people calling have touch tone, or
>	button pressing.

I rang a US business on Saturday which had one of those damn "press 1 if
you want to place an order..." systems. The final option was, "If you have
a rotary phone, wait and one of our operators will take your call."

As with many things in this world, all it takes is for the designer to think
of the end-user.

The system recognised my French tones, by the way. It even told me how long
I could expect to wait and asked if I wanted to hear music or answers to
commonly-asked questions while waiting.

Gavin

>
>        people whoi forget there are still a lot of dial phones around loose 
>        my business.
>
      Many American businesses cut themselves out of the foreign market with
      the 800 numbers. The company spends good money advertising. The readers
      then finds that there is no way to contact the company. Protectionism in
      reverse.
      Rgds,

    I Think You Can Call an 800 Number From Over The Pond If That 800
    Was Set To Receive Calls From Over Seas, It Will Be Much More Expensive
    Offcourse To Do That. 
    
    In The States, You Can Have An 800 Number That You Could Only Call 
    In One State And Cant Call From Outside That One State For Examples.
    
    It Is All Matter Of Where The Majorities Of Your Customers Are.
    
    Thank You,
    /Nasser

    re: .120 Completely wrong. There is no mapping of US 800 numbers to
    other countries such as the UK.
    
    /a

    
    Re: .120
    
    ah, the wind-up continues...
    
    are you going to move to all caps next ?
    
    :-)

    Thank You For Correcting Me, Iam Sorry, I Just Thought Since An 800
    Number Was Like A 'Specialized' Area Code, It Should Work.
    I Bets If I Wrote That AT and T Program That Does The Mapping 
    I Would Have Made It Work Because Iam Very Good.
    
    Buy,
    /Naser
    

    Back when I was living in Australia, a number of Left coast PC Software
    suppliers started advertising their Mail (phone) order services in
    Australian PC magazines. As I recall, the number was 0014 1 800 -???????
    (0014 being the international prefix for outbound calls in Australia,
    and 1 being the country code for the U.S. As I recall, it involved the
    U.S. Company simply committing to its 800 service provider that it
    would accept internation call charges. Of course, John Covert, could
    probably give a detailed technical answer on this, but he is probably
    out skating now that the weather has warmed up.
    
    q
    

AT&T have been advertising widely in European papers in recent weeks. One
of their key points is the ability to call US 800 numbers from Europe. I
have no idea how it works and whether the call is still free.

Every now and then I write to US publications and ask them to get their 
advertisers to change. Never get a reply though. I may start to write to
businesses directly; "You have failed to achieve a marketing opportunity due
to your lack of recognition of anything beyond the Atlantic coast..."  :-)

Gavin

    John Covert isn't out skating.  He is lying on his face at the
    Lincoln Sudbury Regional High School.
    
    For a modest fee, you could see him do this, on this Thursday through
    Saturday evenings, and on Saturday afternoon.  See Notes 121.25-.last
    in CDSRV::THEATRE for details.
    
    							Ann B.

    They buried him face down?

    	There's a good punchline here, but I'm going to restrain myself.

    Interesting, interesting.

    Jamie.

>> There's a good punchline here, but I'm going to restrain myself.


I can't.

;^)

The way international 800 service works, almost invariably, is as follows:

	A company wishing to provide toll-free service from
	some other country goes to his long-distance carrier.

	That carrier contacts the telephone operating authority
	in the distant country, and gets a number assigned _in_
	the numbering space in the country where the calls will
	originate.

Thus (international access code) (country code) (number) is ALMOST NEVER
USED.  There are a number of technical reasons for this that have to do
with how international calls are billed and routed to different carriers.

For example, if DEC wants to buy an international 800 number in France
that rings in the U.S., DEC first decides whether they would like AT&T
or Sprint or whoever to provide the service.  The carrier then gets a
number in France, in the format "05-nn nn nn" assigned.  Telecom France
has assigned "05" numbers for this purpose, and they work even from pay
phones without the insertion of money or a telephone units card.  Telecom
France routes the calls to the U.S. via the carrier of choice.

A number in the U.K. would be "0800-nn nn nn", in Germany "0130-nnnn", and
so on.

Calling international 800 numbers via normal dialling is generally not
provided for a number of reasons:

	1. The billing mechanisms in most countries cannot deal with
	   beginning a call as a normal, paid, international call and
	   then not charging.
	2. If someone were to dial a "toll-free" number in another country
	   and be charged for it, there would be confused, unhappy customers.
	3. The routing mechanisms from one country to another do not allow
	   carrier specific routings; when calls originating in another
	   country are sent to the U.S., the originating country assigns
	   the calls to the various U.S. carriers on a statistical basis,
	   to make the volume of outgoing traffic per carrier equal to the
	   volume of incoming traffic.

AT&T advertises that you can call non-international U.S. 800 numbers from
overseas via the USA Direct service (which is now automated in many countries,
but even where it isn't automated, AT&T operators can put the calls through
as fast as you can speak the numbers), but they do charge you for it just as
though you had called any other number.  You must have an AT&T or local telco
calling card, and AT&T will only complete calls to AT&T 800 numbers.  AT&T
will provide AT&T calling cards to overseas customers for the purpose of using
the USA Direct service.

Sprint also provides the service and will only complete calls to Sprint 800
numbers.

It's going to get even more interesting when the current method of assigning
800 numbers to carriers by assigning an entire prefix to each carrier is
eliminated -- effective very soon, Judge Greene has ordered the carriers to
implement portable 800 numbers.  That means that a number you can call today
from overseas via an AT&T operator might remain in service as the same number
but be assigned to Sprint -- and the calls would no longer be able to be
placed, even though the number is still in service.  The portable 800 service
was even supposed to allow customers to have calls from different states or
at different times of day be routed via different carriers, which will further
confuse the international calling of non-international 800 numbers.

/john

>Push-buttons might not help, anyway -- what you need is "touch-tone" (and
>using the same tones as the USA, I suppose, if those tones aren't
>standardised) which is not the same thing as "push-buttons".

Touch-Tone is CCITT Recommendation Q.31.

/john

    Would that punchline have anything at all to do with "help me find my
    car keys and we'll *drive" outta here"? Just curious.
    
    Ken

I just had the pleasure of using the voicemail system for DECworld;  An
experience that has my telephone jack dangling from the wall.  (Note
that there was an option for customers to get information on how they
could buy this sack for fecal waste matter for their own companies.)

After typing in the last name of the person who I wanted to leave a
message for (not knowing that person's mailbox) I get a message now
leave a message...There must be HUNDREDS of Thomas' at DECworld.  Which
one would get the message?

I then press the key to get human assistance and "We'are sorry, but this
line cannot be transfered"

A living breathing monument to a product no one should buy,  even from
Digital. 

    Please let me respond to your note calmly even though the tone makes
    me want to react emotionally. 

>>After typing in the last name of the person who I wanted to leave a
>>message for (not knowing that person's mailbox) I get a message now
>>leave a message...There must be HUNDREDS of Thomas' at DECworld.  Which
>>one would get the message?

    If you had bothered to listen to the instructions you would have 
    heard that it asked you to enter LAST name followed by FIRST name. 
    If after doing that there were several people who met the criteria, 
    the system then begins to read details of those people to allow you 
    to choose which person you want to send voicemail to.  There are 
    options to allow you to go forwards and backwards one at a time and 
    in groups throughout the directory making selection simple and 
    quick, an option that very few competitive solutions offer.

    Even if you do not know how to spell the name of the person you are
    trying to reach, partial spellings or close approximations are
    available. 

>>I then press the key to get human assistance and "We'are sorry, but this
>>line cannot be transfered"

    The reason for this was restrictions imposed on the system by the 
    DECworld organizers at the last minute.  There was no chance to 
    change it.  However throughout the system there are messages giving 
    you another number to call if you needed help, and there was a group 
    of consultants available at the show to give you any information you 
    wanted.  Under normal circumstances this option connects users to an 
    operator an option many competitors do not offer.

>>A living breathing monument to a product no one should buy,  even from
>>Digital. 

    Fortunately not everyone thinks like you.  We have sold this product
    to many companies and have had a very successful show at DECworld
    getting many favorable comments.  We will continue to be successful
    despite your comments and I hope that in future you feel inclined to
    give us helpful feedback rather than emotional, ill-informed
    nonsense. 

    Gerry

    I've been reading from this conference for several weeks now, and am
    delighted at the open-ness of dialogue -- refreshing, compared to the
    fearful, make-no-waves environment we all seem to reside within these
    days.  (Kinda like group therapy when you're from a dysfunctional
    family -- the group provides perspective, humor, hard truths, and tough
    love, something we don't get from families as a rule.)
    
    Anyway, my observations from reading this particular note on Voicemail
    can also be applied to Digital or any other technically-oriented
    company:
    
    1.  There are many employees who are excited and enthused about new
    techno-tools -- who grab hold of them, learn to use them, and make
    their lives easier.  (I'm one of them.)
    
    2.  There are many other employees (and I mean at every level -- we all
    work for our stockholders) who are intimidated by technology, whose
    minds blank-out when a new techno-tool doesn't cooperate, or who
    haven't the interest or the patience to learn how these new tools can
    make their work and/or lives easier.  
    
    3.  Neither of these extreme types is right or wrong.  
    
    4.  Our customers also fall somewhere between these extreme polarities.
    
    My point?  Well, I guess as an avid fan of new toys, it amazes me that
    anyone WOULDN'T want to invest the time and energy into learning how to
    use these new tools.  But since I can't MAKE someone else think the way
    I do, and since I (and the rest of DEC) want all those "someone else"s
    to BUY something from us and thereby keep us afloat, it should be in my
    best interests to figure out how to make it easier for these customers
    (internal or external) of mine to interact with me.
    
    That means (in my most grovelingly humble opinion) that I need to learn
    to use Voicemail, and then I must be diligently disciplined in using it
    correctly, IF my customers are to get through to me.
    
    If I am in a group which has decided to use this tool, I must insist
    that my customers can reach me or an alternate without adding to their
    frustration or delay.  If I do not ensure my reachability, then I have
    only myself at whom to point a finger.
    
    (Sorry to be so long-winded ... and I'll step down from the Ivory box I've
    been standing on ...)