Conference vmszoo::rc

    Keith, FWIW, having recently built a PT40 and having about 12 flights
    on it, I think you'll find that the 7/8" washout called for by Great
    Planes doesn't make any significant difference.  The plane is an
    excellent glider and remember, I fly in Colo Spgs at 7200'.
    
    It is a very forgiving plane and even when the engine dies a mile
    out :) a good pilot can get it back to the field.  Just ask Al Casey.
    
    Keep the shiney side up, Chuck
    

    
    
     RE: .3
    
     Agree, strongly. My first plane was (is) a Mid-West Areostar .20.
    
    Got zapped by a telephone pole. Its fixed but has yet to fly every
    weekend. So my first flights were on a SUREFILGHT all -foam cessna.
    This beast took numerous bashing and crashing attempts. The worst
    of which was when a tree ate it. Needless to say I never had trouble
    repairing it. I was and still am NOT attached to it. $30.00 worth
    of foam and a tube of expoy and grout (for repairs). It still lives.
    
     By all means GET an instructor. I learned the HARD way . Not listening
    to all the expertise in this conference. But there ain't nothing
    like sweating.... or shaking after your first flight. :^)
    
    Z-Man

        Re:                       <<< Note 1051.5 by LEDS::LEWIS >>>

                I have  to  agree with Bill.  Use the PT-40!  My original
        PT-20 still flies in spite of several crashes and having been the
        initial trainer for two  people.   I piece of advice that I would
        add, however, is that I suggest starting building your next level
        trainer now.  This prevents you  from  building it too quickly if
        you happen to destroy the PT-20, which  shouldn't  happen  with a
        good instructor.
        
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             Anker      \_|_/

    Kieth,
    	Bill and I are both willing to help with instructing at CMRCM in
    Westboro.  I am not as good at instructing as Bill is but I can get 
    you up and give you stick time.  The PT-40 is a fine trainer but you
    have to find someone to make sure it's set up right.  It usually takes
    a couple of test flights by a QUALIFIED instructor to get the bugs out.
    Sometimes this means going home and redoing controls or moving the CG
    but the results are a good flying predictable airplane.  Judging from
    the very BAD advice given earlier in this note, you have to take all
    advice in this notes file with a grain or three of salt.  Bill and
    Anker were right on the mark with their adivce!  THe others should be
    ashamed.
    
    Charlie
    

    
    	Don't buy another plane. The PT-40 is a TRAINER and a good one.
    That's what you bought it for. Whenever you fly there is a chance
    of crashing, but with a ggod instructor your chances are smaller 
    than when you get better....that's when people test their capability.
    Just adding one more vote as to which advice is the right one.
    

    This is an attempt to summarize and expand on the preceding replies; 
    there were three separate pieces of advice mixed together.
    
1)  Most important: learn with a good flying airplane and a good instructor.
    (Advice I didn't happen to offer, but I absolutely endorse.)
    
    In particular, Keith should join the CMRCM and take advantage of some
    of the best instructors available anywhere.  The PT-40 has a reputation
    as a superb trainer.  The Kadet is another. 
    
    In another medium, Charlie Watt gave this well worded advice that goes
    beyond what I have read elsewhere: 
    
        "It's a matter of getting a good instructor and not trying to go
        out on your own until you are really READY.  This doesn't mean
        after you have made your first almost landing on the field.  This
        means after you can get yourself out of difficult situations like
        an out of trim airplane or a deadstick right after takeoff.  It
        also means you can handle other planes flying around.  Until that
        point, you should have help standing by in case you need it." 

    I went out on my own too soon and contrary to my instructor's advice
    and paid the price twice.    Twice!         I had made a dozen solo
    landings before the first bad crash, but even today I am not skilled
    enough to go up without guidance. 
    
2)  The advice about buying a trainer needs lots of qualification.
    
    In general and in my own opinion, the best thing to do is to buy an all
    balsa kit like the PT-40 or the Kadet II and build it yourself.  First,
    because you will need the building practice anyway for your future
    projects when the building skill will be more important and the
    instructions may be more sparse.  Second, you will almost certainly
    need experience in repairing the plane, and building it will give you
    the experience and the confidence.  You will also want experience in
    finishing techniques, but don't put exquisite effort into something
    that might soon get some serious alterations. 
    
    However, if you are going to be really up tight about the possibility
    of destroying a long, meticulous effort, then buy a used, all-balsa
    plane to learn on while you start *planning* an intermediate trainer to
    graduate to.  Be aware that the used plane might already be getting
    heavy with repair glue.  The big advantages of used planes are: first,
    the investment is low, and second, you can get it into the air as
    quickly as an ARF with an ease-of-repair advantage over some ARF's. 
    
    If you already have a trainer, relax and use it.  But *relax*; it is
    almost certain to get banged up.  And it will be repairable. (The one
    exception I've heard of was a plane that in a crash went into the mouth
    of a running brush chipper; it was not repairable.)  My PT-40 was only
    partially built when I got the chance to buy a used Kadet and get into
    the air.  I'm glad I did.  I've regarded the PT-40 as insurance against
    the total loss of the Kadet, but that is just rationalizing --- I could
    always go out and buy one if I later needed another trainer.  As it is,
    I have an investment just sitting there while I have badly wrecked and
    rebuilt the Kadet three and a half times. 
    
3)  I'm not competent to comment on the advice about ignoring washout.

    RE: .13 Cessna SUREFLIght
    
      My is rudder and elevator. Floats like a dream is easily repairable
    in about 5 minutes on feild with epoxy. Buddies had alerons. Flys
    even better. As a basher for those many first flights I got my moneys
    worth. A little grout here and there and a coat of Gliddens and
    presto, You got a Looker and great flyer! Enjoy.
    
    Z-Man