Conference vmszoo::rc

>< Note 555.0 by JACKAL::SNOW >
>                   -< FIRST DECRCM RC ELECTRIC CAR RACES!! >-
...
>    DATE: 12 JUNE 1988, 2:00 P.M. STARTING TIME

That is the day of the 495th Scale Fly in and the same day the Thunderbirds
go to Hanscom field.  So I guess I won't make it.  The 11th would be better
but I'm only one voice and I'm sure others have calendar problems on the
11th.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    There are a _lot_ of cars that don't come with the RS540 motor.
    
    For example, Supershots come with the 540Technipower adjustable
    motor- which _must_ be taken apart and adjusted before it is used.
    
    Do we want to disqualify these cars from "stock" class a priori?
    
    (not that it is unfair- it actually may be fairer to keep them out
    of the "stock" class!  I'm just wondering if perhaps the names should
    not be Beginner and Advanced, rather than Stock and Modified.)
    
    	-fwiw
		\__    		-Bill
	  {((___O===--0'         Yerazunis
    	

    
    	Why beat to death each other in trying to agreed for definitions
    of what's stock, what's modified, who is begginner and who's advanced?
    Why don't you just stick to ROAR or IFMAR rules for holding your
    events?  These rules are widely accepted as the standard, these
    people have more than 10 years of experience in this business and
    this experience has gone into their rules...that is their sole
    business, RACING rc cars.
    
    I've seen a discussion trying to define whats stock.  Forget about shocks,
    bearings, the ESC's, sway bars, graphite or stock chasiss,etc. Forget 
    about the "BOX STOCK" concept, it doesn't work (ie, a Grasshopper
    and a Turbo-Ultima would compete against each other???).  
    A cars speed is truly dictated by the car weight, batteries used 
    and the motor. Concentrate on that.  Also you'll have sooner or 
    later go along with ROAR definition of what's a stock motor: $25 
    price limit.  I disagree with the fact that a RS540 can't be tweaked 
    for more performance. It's timing can be increased and the brushes 
    cut without opening or tampering the motor tabs.  I've seen some of 
    these performing like mild modified motors.
    
    If a single individual can tweak without being noticed, then its
    unfair for everybody else.  Roar noticed this and now they allow
    tweaked motors, open endbell (yokomo 05/igarashi) type as long as 
    they comply with the price limit and the tabs haven't been tampered 
    with.  Notice RACE-PREP is now legal-stock (after a long legal suit).
    In the modified class they still need to meet certain dimensions
    and price limit. Not every motor is modified-legal (ie. Lemans 360*
    series has been outlaw'd due to dimensions/winding.)
    
    On the battery side, story is different.  You'll have a hot issue
    with the new 1700 maH cells out.  These are exactly the same size,
    voltage as the old 1200 MaH, just the wrapper is different; but
    wrapper isn't always there!!!  Roar is about to accept the use of 
    these new cells due to the difficulties identifying them.  SCR's
    are now clearly acceptable.
                                                                         
    As for the driving experience, you'll have to have everybody in the
    same category since you don't seem to have enough contestants yet
    (unless you have 2 or 3 persons in each A,B,C main).  When you get
    to the point that you have 15 to 20 entries for a given category
    then you can separate them in three mains A,B,C according to their
    qualifying times in a 2 minute run.  That will be fair for everybody.
    
    	Developing and MAINTANING a FAIR set of rules in this field
    is a never ending process since technology changes so fast.  Choose
    your rules according to your interests and the level of competition
    you want to achieve.  Organizing races is no easy task, I've been 
    through it. At one time my club managed (survived) one in which we 
    had close to 150 contestants. 
    
    	I'm an outside observer to all this since I'm NO DECRCM MEMBER
    yet, just I scan this file regularly.  If all your talking and
    planning turns out into a serious real event I might then join your
    club.  In any case, I'm willing to help you get this thru.
    
    
    						GOOOD LUCK!!!
    
    
    
    Remember: Not always the fastest car wins..., just the first one
              to get there!
    	
    

	RE: .10

	I concur that we base our rules on ROAR...

	The closed can is an attempt at adapting the idea of the legal
	"stock" motor without indepth tech inspection or supplying
	legal motors to the drivers. Nothing is tamperproof, but close
	can help reduce the risk.

	Suggesting the stock chassis is a way of giving the less
	expensive cars a place to run. It makes the stock class
	more of a "sportsmen's" class, which is gaining is popularity.
	
	A good check on the legality of the motors (and the batteries,
	at least the SCR type) is the running time of the race. Truely
	stock motors will make an eight minute race, tweaked motors
	and SCR's will not. This is why SCR's are legal, they dump
	too fast.
	
	I agree, 1700 mah cells are a problem. We'll all be forced to
	use them in the end.

	I am also in favor of ROAR's running times and size and weight
	rules.
    

    	That being said.....
    
    	Dan,
    
    	Listen to what is said and make a decision and run the race.
    	We'll all support you.
    
    
        Chris
    
    
    
    
    

    Dan,
    First of all, let me say that I think you're doing a great job of
    trying to get the CAR folks going, even though your main interest
    is in the air. Not too many people would go through the effort you
    are.
    Secondly, I would like to sign up for the car races. I am one of
    the worlds greatest procrastinators.....you really will get my check
    and application form soon. There are a couple other guys here in
    my building that have Hornets also (me too.) I will try to get them
    into this too.
    As for rules and regulations of the racing......I don't care.
    Why would anyone get nit-picky over a couple of bucks. Just get
    out there and have some fun for crying out loud. You're absolutely
    right about not being able to please everyone......you have a good
    sense of what's happening, just go ahead and do as you feel.
    I have an un-modified Hornet. I know of two other Hornets and a
    Grasshopper in this building. I'm not sure of the interest though.
    I'll check.
    
    Mike
    DTN 293-5867

    I'm planning on being there with my Thundershot (4wd)
    
    Diane
    

    
    
    	Count me in for a Fox ( 2wd ) and a Clod hopper ( Truck )
    
    
    		Steve Peters
    

    I'm ashamed to admit to this, but..., my 10 year old Daughter
    can drive cicles around me at the race track, so I might as well
    let her run the RC-10, and I'll bring the ol' Hornet to run myself.
    So count me in for another car Dan.
                                               John

    Hmm, I might be able to get a bullhorn, write me mail to remind
    me and I'll see what I can do....
    
    Willie
    

    Sorry gang, the bullhorn I was going to borrow had dead batteries,
    but I'll still be there with the Tyke, the TV, the video camera,
    and all that fun stuff.
    
    Willie
    

    (re; .28) Jay is 6 yrs. old, and got a kick out of being chased
    by the tank!

    re .-1: I guess I'm going to have to go out & get something for
    my monster (aka eldest one). He's the same age (6).
    
    Got any suggestions ?
    
    md

    I don't know if it's available in the US, but I started my son off
    with a Tamiya Sand Rover and a Tamiya Holiday Buggy. Both are extremely
    robust (ie can be ploughed into walls,etc. with monotonous regularity)
    
    The steering linkages, which can be the bane of us all, are very
    reliable, and very difficult to pull apart whilst racing. What's
    more, these vehicles look good !
    
    (No, I'm not receiving commission on sales from Tamiya. I just happen
    to think that Tamiya vehicles & Futaba radio gear are the best
    combination for youngsters starting in the sport. And it is a sport!)
    
    
    Graham Jessiman
    Manchester
    England

    Sure, a car race sounds like a good idea. How does one join DECRCM?
    I've been an avid reader of this notesfile for the past few weeks,
    and there certainly is a wealth of information here. I finished
    a turbo ultima about two weeks ago. I raced it in Sudbury a couple
    weeks ago and came in first place ( only because the official's
    car can't win any prizes ). I was unable to go to the first DECRCM
    race because I hadn't finished the ultima.
    
    I'm going on vacation for two weeks starting July 9, so I'm not
    available during that time. I'm still interesting in joining DECRCM.
    
    							John.
    
    PS. I have an aerostar 20 that looks like a pile of pickup sticks.

    I'M READY FOR RACE TWO.  HOW ABOUT HAVING IT IN SHREWSBURY THIS
    TIME? (IT'S CLOSER TO HOME).
                                          JOHN

    
    I'm ready to try another race and Shrewsbury is O.K. with me.
    I guess it's time to tune-up the cars.
    
    
    	Steve
    

    (re;.36).. Yeah, like what make/size/compound tire do I need to run
               a RC-10 on a flat asphalt oval track ? I run on indoor
               skating rink floors only, so nothing I tried at DECRCM
               race 1 worked too well. Anybody out there run on parking
               lots regularly ? 
    
     John (and Jennifer)

>    (re;.36).. Yeah, like what make/size/compound tire do I need to run
>               a RC-10 on a flat asphalt oval track ? I run on indoor
>               skating rink floors only, so nothing I tried at DECRCM
>               race 1 worked too well. Anybody out there run on parking
>               lots regularly ? 

I used to but my tire selection is a secret.  If you look close
you will be able to examine the tires on my Hot Shot in the winners
circle at the next DECRCM race.  Then (after my secret is out) I will 
have to resort to skill for the race after that! :-)

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Well, the Tyke and I are up for another race, at least as spectators!
    
    Willie

    I too am willing to participate in the next race but as I'm mostly
    a plane person I will as Dan suggested, let the car people set this
    one up.

re: 38

I used to think that way too.....but if all you've got going for you
is good tires....

re: 36

On low to med traction (anything will work with good traction) surfaces
use Advanced Engineering 1/8 scale rubber tires. They come in two sizes,
large (rear for 1/8) and small (fronts for 1/8). Use the small ones all
the way around. They come in a variety of tread patterns and compounds.
Use the intermediate compound with the S shaped tread. You get the wheels
and adapters from the same company. The cheap (like any of this stuff is
cheap) way is to get the nylon wheels (alum is expensive). Run these on
2WD with alot of wing (front and rear) and I will guarantee great results,
at least as far as hooking up goes. Tires run about $22 a pair, wheels
about $6 a pair. Ah, the cost of winning....

On 4WD you can get away with a bit less. I've seen Proline 428R's used
all the way around really work well, as well as various pin spikes.
But I'll let Kay give you the hot tip, I only run 2WD.

Chris

    re:38...The only reason you May be in the winners circle in 4WD
            is because my 10 yr. old daughter runs 2WD...........
    
    re:36...Thanks Chris, I'll be ready for you this time !!

    REF .37
    
    Try using the foam type tires. I found these to be very effective
    on asphault. In most cases you have to glue to tire to the rim to
    keep it from peeling off because of the super traction. The average
    cost for this type of tire is  front ($8-$9)  rear ($11-$13) without
    rims. When selecting the tires make sure you get a tight fit then
    glue them. I use the thick CA. If you use these tires don't worry
    about sliding in the corners, worry about flipping.
    
    There's also pneumatic tires available that's at the top of the
    line but it's real hard to justify the $140.
    
    Den